The Glenn Beck Program - May 22, 2021


Ep 109 ｜ Critical Race Theory Explained — & How to Stop It ｜ Voddie Baucham ｜ The Glenn Beck Podcast


Episode Stats

Length

59 minutes

Words per Minute

147.44542

Word Count

8,828

Sentence Count

1

Misogynist Sentences

3

Hate Speech Sentences

20


Summary


Transcript

00:00:00.000 critical race theory it is the knockout punch for america if this continues and is taught to our
00:00:08.320 children there is no freedom left in america we will become a very dangerous dangerous nation
00:00:18.240 one of the key leaders of the fight against critical race theory is dr voti bacham he is
00:00:25.680 the author and current dean of theology at african christian university in zambia
00:00:31.840 his most recent book is fault lines the social justice movement and evangelicalism's looming
00:00:38.880 catastrophe it is a manual for understanding the warped thinking of critical social justice
00:00:46.960 the left is clearly scared of him because they've employed all of their usual defamatory tactics
00:00:52.960 including flat-out racism he is a descendant of slaves and the child of the great migration
00:01:01.600 and desegregation the son of a single mother who raised him in one of the most dangerous urban
00:01:07.600 areas in our country yet so-called anti-racist accusing are accusing him now of being a white
00:01:14.400 supremacist unlike them he offers a viable alternative he offers a solution this is an important and
00:01:25.120 fascinating man today on the glenbeck podcast dr voti bacham jr
00:01:44.400 voting my friend how are you oh man better than i deserve how about yourself i'm uh well i i didn't
00:01:52.160 have uh quadruple bypass uh so i'm actually better than you are but i'm uh i'm uh i'm glad to hear
00:02:00.880 you're doing well you were supposed to come to texas in america uh to uh to talk to some churches
00:02:06.960 and to do this podcast but you were in the hospital i'm glad to see that you're healthy
00:02:10.880 yeah man i am it's been great yeah um we met probably a year ago and i had you on the air
00:02:18.500 several times because i found your voice i found you on youtube and uh your voice was so refreshing
00:02:25.700 and you nailed critical race theory and this at a time where nobody was really talking about it
00:02:32.380 and you had been talking about it for years what led you to this uh discovery or what led you to
00:02:41.760 critical race theory um i i think there are a couple of things uh i was studying other issues
00:02:49.940 um classical marxism for example and then later on things like the the frankfurt school antonio
00:02:57.880 gramsci um and i was you know seeing these things sort of popping up and becoming more and more popular
00:03:06.980 in the academic realm and then 2007 2008 um when barack obama was running uh for president all of a sudden
00:03:18.940 um i'm seeing some of these same ideas being popularized not just in obscure academia um but
00:03:29.020 but they're they're becoming sort of sort of mainstream um and and marxism was becoming cool
00:03:35.720 um which is not the first time that that's happened right so so here's the here's the problem um
00:03:42.380 i got into a lot of trouble back in 2008 i was thinking out loud and i was on fox and i said i think
00:03:49.620 the president is racist no that's not quite the right word but he just seems to have a hatred for
00:03:56.060 the white culture what i was sensing was critical race theory because everything that i'm seeing now
00:04:05.780 the the fruits of critical race theory it does make you hate uh the the white culture or what they call
00:04:14.360 the white culture uh i don't but meritocracy you know doing the things that get people ahead in life
00:04:22.760 yeah and and i'd say it goes beyond that glenn it's it's not just um the white culture or whiteness
00:04:30.500 per se um but because of the the the roots of this thing uh especially the the neo-marxist the
00:04:37.960 grampian marxist roots of this thing it's the broader culture so that also includes christian culture
00:04:45.400 right it's beyond just you know yeah white black it's the western way of life it is the judeo-christian
00:04:54.860 west that's what it is that's why there's such a hatred for the jews yeah yeah and
00:05:00.480 so you know to go back to our former president remember uh critical race theory it's born out of
00:05:07.300 critical legal studies um which you know has its heyday in the 70s but it really comes of age
00:05:12.920 in the late 80s in particular in 1989 and derrick bell you know sort of understood as the father of
00:05:20.740 critical race theory um and he's a harvard law professor and then his protege is kimberly crinshaw
00:05:29.400 who's a harvard law student she gives us intersectionality and the former president
00:05:35.880 went to law school where um so so you know he's he's swimming in it you know he's he's bathing
00:05:43.060 back then it must be so frustrating to know and to see it coming and to be shouting from the mountaintops
00:05:51.840 and be canceled because of it i mean they came after you hard um before you were even really
00:06:00.100 well known to most of america they knew you were poison to them and you had to be eliminated
00:06:08.000 yeah and part of that is again these tenets of critical race theory the idea that um
00:06:16.160 even even knowledge itself is a cultural construct right um you know there is no objective truth
00:06:24.880 and the way that we get to truth is through narratives and particularly the narratives of
00:06:29.440 the oppressed right and so when somebody who belongs to an oppressed minority group is saying
00:06:36.800 something that sounds like the wrong narrative when they're singing from the wrong sheet of music
00:06:42.720 then they have to be castigated it it has to be he's not really black or it has to be he's currying
00:06:49.260 favor with white people you know it has to be you know he's a self-loathing black man so on and so forth
00:06:55.020 because is this wait wait wait if this is this written down is there is there a handbook that
00:07:01.900 explains that that that is from them that you can go no here it is that's a serious question is there
00:07:09.660 anything that not that part not not that part but that that part you just that part's just sort of
00:07:15.320 learn right okay it's kind of like i think about i i think about that uh scene and a few good men you
00:07:21.960 know that that scene in the courtroom where one lawyer you know kind of does really well with a
00:07:27.380 uh a witness of the other one comes up and says hey can you show me in this book where the mess hall
00:07:31.800 is and he goes i didn't find that in the book i just kind of followed the crowd you know at child
00:07:36.060 right right right and this is this is the kind of thing where you know that that castigation of
00:07:42.060 certain voices and the accusation that certain people are are not black and and you know names
00:07:48.760 like coon and uncle tom and you know skin folk but not kin folk my favorite new one you know um you know
00:07:56.580 these sort of things um have been happening for a long time and there is no need for a rule book
00:08:04.760 in in dealing with with these sort of things can you let me go back for a second you used uh
00:08:11.940 the word construct that's a new word for most of america this that's just a social construct
00:08:18.800 what the hell does that mean yeah well again and i keep i keep referring to this name this
00:08:25.620 antonio gramsci he's a he's a very important figure in all of this he's let's start there who
00:08:31.180 who is he gramsci's an italian marxist from the 1920s and 30s he spent a great deal of time in prison
00:08:39.080 under the fascists because the fascists wanted to protect italy from his mind um he was a small guy
00:08:47.020 very bookish um and so after the bolshevik revolution uh it was it was expected that europe would basically
00:08:56.980 fall right that there would be this sort of marxist revolution workers of the world unite
00:09:02.640 and that you know these these european countries um would fall to uh to marxism but it didn't happen
00:09:11.340 and so now all of a sudden you got people who are going back and trying to figure out okay what's wrong
00:09:16.180 so gramsci's doing this same thing and for gramsci he comes up with this idea of hegemony
00:09:22.420 and it's interesting it used to be you'd only hear hegemony if you're in you know the deep in the
00:09:28.720 academic literature or whatever but people are even using this word in popular popular culture now
00:09:33.320 and essentially gramsci's arguing that the reason that this revolution is not happening
00:09:39.580 is because the oppressors have established this cultural hegemony and this cultural hegemony
00:09:47.840 is being promoted and enforced by the robes of society by people in law and government by clergy
00:09:56.580 by people in education and academia if you will and so on and so forth and basically because the
00:10:04.320 the populist is being taught to think according to this hegemony they're not following through they're
00:10:12.340 not seeing the problems with capitalism so for gramsci what you have to do is you have to first
00:10:18.280 overthrow the hegemony you have to first get into the robes of society you got to get control of
00:10:25.780 government and the courts and the schools and the clergy and so on and so forth so that you change
00:10:32.720 people's thinking and weaken the culture from within so that it can then be toppled
00:10:40.340 so connect him to the frankfurt school something else that people don't really know of which is
00:10:46.120 is how it came over here i believe from from nazi germany yeah so the you know frankfurt school again
00:10:53.500 it gets its name because it's in in frankfurt uh germany um and these are marxist thinkers and ideologues
00:11:01.700 um along the antonio gramsci sort of sometimes referred to as cultural you know marxism because he's
00:11:09.200 dealing with this idea of you know the culture and whatnot and you know hitler rises to power
00:11:15.320 and these guys go west and many end up in the united states colombian right yeah and among other
00:11:25.100 places um some very prominent you know uh teaching posts and again these guys are sort of um working
00:11:33.820 out this the ideas of marxism within the context of gramsci's understanding of hegemony
00:11:44.200 and with a view toward really applying it to all of society um and gaining influence and i mean that's
00:11:54.860 exactly what that's exactly what began to happen so um and that and that's the that's where social
00:12:00.400 construct comes from the the social construct is the hegemony saying yes no this is the way it is
00:12:07.700 yes and so okay so so here's here's here's the thing that now you remember i think you and i talked
00:12:14.400 about this too that flyer from the smithsonian institute yes yes yeah the african-american history
00:12:22.260 museum of african-american history or whatever explaining in case people don't remember
00:12:25.580 yeah it was uh yeah yeah it's a flyer that talks about whiteness and among other things on the
00:12:34.120 flyer um i wish i could pull it up i should have thought about that beforehand but things like uh
00:12:40.580 being on time things like the protestant work ethic things like the nuclear family um you know things
00:12:47.700 like all these crazy stuff and we're going wait a minute that's not whiteness right and and and you
00:12:55.200 know christian people are going wait that's kind of biblical that's kind of you know that that that's
00:13:00.540 that's that's not white it's not american it's just kind of biblical whatever and so there was a lot of
00:13:06.560 you know hoopla around that document but if you understand the concept of hegemony then basically
00:13:16.180 you get that what's being said is we value these things because the oppressors and the cultural elite
00:13:24.780 have determined that these things are to be valued critical race theory for example um really doesn't
00:13:32.980 believe in you know sort of the the the empiricism of of the of the uh of the reformation and renaissance
00:13:41.880 and so on and so forth and the idea of objective truth objective reality so the point being made is
00:13:50.020 these things are held in high esteem because they're part of the hegemony that the oppressor
00:13:57.020 uses to oppress the oppressed and so what they're doing is they're creating a new social construct
00:14:04.440 saying that this is the way that truth uh looks at it which is the exact opposite right yes yes and that
00:14:14.340 truth if you want to understand truth you have to listen to the voice of the oppressed so that's
00:14:23.120 why we already said about elevating black voices elevating your minority voices uh lgbtqia plus voices
00:14:30.820 or whatever immigrant voices elevating these voices because within this construct of critical theory
00:14:37.080 the oppressor oppressed paradigm within critical race theory the idea is that knowledge is socially
00:14:43.280 constructed and if you want to break that hegemony what you do is you listen to the voices of the
00:14:49.920 people who are on the outside of that hegemony because the oppressed have alternative ways of
00:14:56.580 knowing and access to other truths that the oppressor cannot see or understand so this is what's
00:15:05.840 meant by elevating minority voices and elevating the voices of the oppressed
00:15:09.340 so um when did it start i mean because it it seemed to be in our um universities i mean i found an old
00:15:20.420 article from 1989 that said it looks like all major universities now are dominated by marxists
00:15:28.280 um it was a fascinating article but it didn't seem like it was it it felt like some of these real
00:15:35.260 crazies were still on the fringe when did this start to really be imposed on students in the schools as a
00:15:47.100 as a rule rather than an exception well i i would say in the late 80s um you know in in my most recent book
00:15:59.340 uh i have a section where i talk about the class of 89 right and a bunch of things that happened
00:16:05.280 you know in that same year where it seemed like a lot of this stuff that was ruminating since the 60s
00:16:12.580 right the 60s radicals didn't disappear they they just went to the institutions in schools of education
00:16:21.620 um in schools of journalism um you know and and social sciences um they they just went there
00:16:30.260 and these ideas were ruminating you know late 60s 70s in these obscure academic circles but they're
00:16:40.280 obscure academic circles that have a great deal of influence if you're teach if you're teaching the
00:16:47.220 teachers right um and i mean again if you want to find um critical theory literature and critical
00:16:55.280 race theory literature you go to the schools of education you go to the schools of of of journalism
00:17:01.280 and political science and this is where you find this stuff then we begin to multiply disciplines
00:17:08.300 um and so you get chicano studies and africana studies and queer studies and you know all of this
00:17:16.780 stuff with studies on the end of it right right which are really coming from this same from this same
00:17:23.040 pool if you will and operating from these same assumptions and the same worldview and we get we
00:17:29.360 begin to multiply these things you know in uh 70s 80s and in and even into the early 90s um and all of a
00:17:36.480 sudden you look up and it's reached critical mass um and so you know i talk about 89 and 89 there's
00:17:45.840 this first meeting um of critical race theory has its first official meeting in wisconsin um peggy
00:17:53.700 mcintosh publishes her uh piece on white privilege um you know kimberly crenshaw publishes her seminal
00:18:01.760 piece on intersectionality and then there's another book that's published by two harvard professors
00:18:07.040 uh called after the ball um how america will overcome its fear and hatred of gays in the decade of the
00:18:15.100 90s and it's a it's a propaganda piece on how to change the way people think about uh homosexuality
00:18:25.220 but it's rooted in the idea of presenting homosexuals as an oppressed minority so that you
00:18:33.100 could then flip the script and i mean this book is difficult to find now but it's it's open propaganda
00:18:41.100 operating from the same premises and all of these things happened in 1989 so uh i mean it is everywhere
00:18:49.900 it is so well thought out i mean it's it it started in the 20s became institutionalized over in germany in
00:18:59.180 the 20s moved over here uh in the 30s 40s became really strong in the 50s i mean how do you stop it
00:19:09.680 i mean it's it's like a cancer but it seems to be in all of the organs now yeah well there's a couple
00:19:17.980 of things we have to do number one we have to acknowledge it right that that's the first thing
00:19:23.440 um you you talked about me and and my heart issues that i've dealt with recently you know um you know
00:19:30.400 the way the way the way guys get in trouble with heart issues is they don't acknowledge it you start
00:19:35.500 blaming it on a whole bunch of other stuff and the next thing you know you've had the big one and it's
00:19:40.860 over right um so we we have to acknowledge it we have to acknowledge that this is an issue and i'm
00:19:48.060 encouraged because we're starting to see that people are starting to talk about critical race theory
00:19:53.180 people are starting to you know confront critical race theory and so on and so forth so that's number
00:19:58.220 one we have to acknowledge it but secondly beyond acknowledging it we have to unpack it and and
00:20:05.520 that's the that's that's where we've got work to do and that's what i'm trying to help people do i'm
00:20:11.960 trying to help people to unpack it so so can you unpack can you unpack this first yeah what is what is
00:20:18.720 the goal what is the stated goal of critical race theory to overthrow yeah well again even that term
00:20:28.700 critical right the term critical and you you know you hear critical theory we get this from the
00:20:35.200 the frankfurt school that that term critical means that we're looking at something with a view toward
00:20:42.480 problematizing it we're assuming that there are power dynamics at work and that there's this
00:20:49.060 oppressor oppressed dynamic at work and critical theory critical studies is about getting at that
00:20:57.440 with a view toward breaking that hegemony so when you hear critical pedagogy critical theory critical
00:21:06.140 race theory critical you know when you hear that hear frankfurt school okay so okay and when you hear
00:21:13.340 that recognize that the idea is to problematize with a view toward revolution and overthrow this is why
00:21:21.820 you don't reform the police you defund the police correct um and any chaos actually works to their
00:21:28.980 advantage right yeah i mean it's the ultimate win-win uh i think i mean it's it's a brilliant
00:21:35.900 brilliant brilliant system of of a cancerous disease yeah yeah and and it's like i've referred
00:21:44.940 to it and i'm not the first one to refer to it as as a religion but this this religion this worldview
00:21:50.420 is well thought out like there's there's four main tenets and some people will say there's seven or
00:21:55.360 eight whatever but i bring it down into four main tenets the first one is that racism is normal
00:22:00.760 um in other words america is a racist culture hey stop would you say that racist isn't normal but
00:22:10.900 racism is real and it is a human uh failing would you yeah absolutely absolutely what's the difference
00:22:21.520 between normal and what i just said the difference is that according to critical race theory
00:22:27.440 everything is racist um you know robin d'angelo um sort of the the crowned you know princess of
00:22:36.660 of of of this ideology um her book white fragility you know was just the number one best-selling book
00:22:44.200 for i don't know how long but robin d'angelo says when we're looking at an instance in culture we
00:22:52.040 don't ask whether racism occurred we ask how we assume that there's racism we assume that america
00:23:01.040 is founded on racism this is why we talk about systemic racism right um it's everywhere by the way
00:23:10.040 this is why the 1619 project is so important because if america um is based on the principles
00:23:19.280 of the declaration in 1776 or the principles in our constitution that was ratified in 1787
00:23:25.640 then there are these ideals that are lofty ideals that i would argue and i think you would agree
00:23:33.820 are the best ideals that any country's ever been founded on there's never been a republic founded
00:23:39.680 on better ideals than ours right i i've said this i've said this several times i i'm for changing the
00:23:47.560 constitution and changing america but can you tell me something loftier or better to shoot for
00:23:55.260 than all men are created equal right and endowed by their creator or i mean there's nothing better
00:24:01.400 we're not a very old we're not a very old country but we have the oldest constitution in the world
00:24:05.480 right operating yes and so yeah and so if you move it back to 1619 though the the goal
00:24:13.440 of the 1619 project was to say no no no america starts with slavery when the first slaves get here
00:24:21.920 it doesn't start with those documents it starts with slavery because the idea is to problematize
00:24:29.960 the very existence of america and so again first premise racism is normal everything is racist
00:24:39.520 the core of america is racism and white supremacy the second premise is this idea of convergence
00:24:46.780 theory and convergence theory basically says so the first principle is original sin right that's their
00:24:53.060 doctrine of original sin everybody's born with this right the second premise is the doctrine of total
00:24:57.900 depravity so it argues that white people are incapable of righteous actions in the area of race and
00:25:06.600 racism unless their interests converge and by the way that's not my words right this is the words of
00:25:14.100 delgado and sensoi in one of the seminal books on critical race theory right so all those white
00:25:19.300 people that marched with martin luther king they only did it because they had something to gain
00:25:25.560 absolutely absolutely okay because they can't do it otherwise right because of original sin
00:25:32.460 it's because of the original sin of racism it's everywhere you can't get away from it right
00:25:36.200 it is at the heart of whiteness right whiteness is inherently evil the third one is this this
00:25:42.460 anti-liberation wait wait wait wait wait stop so far you have described the theology i think of louis
00:25:49.820 farrakhan oh yeah okay so and he yeah he would be in the line of liberation theology yeah which which
00:25:58.860 liberation liberation liberation theology comes out of marxism as well right right um so yeah it's it's
00:26:04.860 all swimming in the same stream so the the third point is this point of anti-liberalism um rejecting
00:26:13.100 um you know enlightenment rationality and and and classical liberalism and so on and so forth um rejecting
00:26:20.540 ideas of meritocracy and objectivity and and all these sorts of things basically science science and
00:26:27.820 individualism right in many ways in many ways and then the the last one is this idea of knowledge
00:26:35.900 as a social construct and us coming to knowledge through narratives um and so you know you put these
00:26:45.820 things together it was interesting i think it was don lemon the other day who had a piece on critical
00:26:52.380 race theory and even interviewed you know kimberly crenshaw and they they asked about you know
00:26:57.900 critical race theory and you know everybody says it's marxist and this that and the other all you
00:27:02.220 have to do is look at the first word critical right and anybody knows anything so you knows what this
00:27:07.660 goes back to and they're like no it's not marxist critical race theory you know it's people who just
00:27:11.900 love america we just believe in the 13 14 15 america and i'm sitting there going is this really happening
00:27:17.980 i mean there's the literature on this is oh yeah yeah it's it's there yeah the literature is out there
00:27:28.860 and if you want to know what critical race theory is it doesn't take you long to go to the literature
00:27:35.740 and find out what the principles of critical race theory are but nobody is going there they're just saying
00:27:45.660 people are arguing against critical race theory because they don't want to have the conversation
00:27:50.060 about race and racism brother we've been having a conversation about race and racism since the 1860s
00:27:55.340 at least if not from our founding right we've been having we've been having that conversation nobody's
00:28:02.700 saying don't have that conversation and i'm looking around and i'm like you know no we want to be honest
00:28:07.420 about america's history and i'm like has has anybody has anybody did did you go to a school where you
00:28:14.540 didn't learn about slavery did you go to a school where you didn't learn about jim crow i mean what
00:28:19.260 are we talking about here and so it's it's as it's as though we're creating this another false narrative
00:28:27.340 and this false paradigm that says either you embrace critical race theory or you don't want to be honest
00:28:33.420 about um america and her history and and her failings um and and and that that's the fallacy of the
00:28:40.620 excluded middle right that there's something there's something between those two extremes
00:28:47.260 so um unpack this my daughter came and uh said to me the first time blm was out and uh you know they
00:28:57.500 were starting to loot things because of the police officer that was shot or that was shooting um in
00:29:04.620 minneapolis the the first thing she said to me is dad it's not enough to be against racism you have to
00:29:15.340 be an anti-racist explain what that is yeah and how to talk to your kids about that yeah so anti-racism
00:29:25.180 and you know this is popularized really uh by ibram kindy in his book how to be an anti-racist and
00:29:33.820 kindy argues that the opposite of racism is not not racist the opposite of racism is anti-racism and
00:29:42.700 here's what he means by that when you see racism as systemic not personal animosity as we would see from
00:29:51.660 a from a biblical perspective from a traditional perspective right it is the hatred of a person
00:29:57.740 um despising a person looking down on a person because of their particular race or ethnicity
00:30:03.580 no no kendy and the critical race theorists are arguing that racism is systemic so you see disparate
00:30:12.220 outcomes um you know and whenever you see disparate or unequal outcomes you are seeing the product of
00:30:20.300 systemic racism now in the traditional sense if racism is hatred of another person because of their
00:30:28.460 race then what i want to be is not racist i don't want to have hatred towards another person in my heart
00:30:34.780 because of that person's race but if racism is systemic then if you're just not hating people
00:30:43.020 but you're not tearing down the system that is creating disparities then not racist is actually racist
00:30:53.100 and you've got to move beyond that to anti-racism which means that you're constantly problematizing
00:30:59.580 right being critical in the oppressor oppressed you know uh mode and looking for areas in the system that
00:31:09.900 are creating disparate or unequal outcomes and fighting against that in order to get equal outcomes
00:31:20.620 so that's why nelson mandela uh martin luther king can now be called racists
00:31:29.980 yeah frederick douglas yeah yeah absolutely yeah they definitely can it's amazing you know this whole idea
00:31:36.700 we started you know tearing down statues and whatnot um that that there's no end to that there there's no
00:31:44.460 end to that um i chuckled recently as a school i think in chicago was considering renaming itself
00:31:53.500 after barack obama and they decided not to rename the school because obama didn't do enough for illegal
00:32:02.860 immigrants now listen if obama's not woke enough for you nobody is nobody is nobody is and that's the
00:32:11.020 point nobody is because you can always find some other intersection if you will and press at that
00:32:22.140 point and you can problematize anything um we can divide people up into these sort of
00:32:28.300 infinite minuscule subcategories and always point to the fact that somebody or you know some group of
00:32:39.260 of somebodies has been underrepresented or mistreated um and therefore we've we've got work to do that's
00:32:47.740 why russia's gulags were full and that's why they had stormtroopers in germany because i mean people that
00:32:53.580 were all for it suddenly had betrayed the revolution to use the french uh phrase um
00:33:02.860 they've done a lot of uh work on how to destroy have they done any work on what it actually is going to
00:33:13.180 look like after they pull this down well after they pull this down um the pigs are not only
00:33:25.660 walking on two legs but they're in the farmer's house at the table um this is right so it's i mean it's
00:33:34.620 it's it's just chaos yeah it's animal you know um it just i i think we talked about this before
00:33:42.380 i think animal farm is one of the most important books that people could be reading right now right
00:33:47.820 because seeing this you know i mean we're actually watching this right now you know animal farm and and
00:33:55.100 1984 and and you know so much so many of these dystopian you know novels that we you that we read
00:34:01.500 because we were forced to um and didn't really didn't really get because that was something over
00:34:07.020 there right that that's something over there in in in the communist countries so on and so forth
00:34:12.620 and we were at we're seeing those things now um and i i think you know what we're moving this is
00:34:18.620 about power and then at the end of the day this is about power right so help me out on this because
00:34:23.740 i feel like there's two forces at work one the i think in many ways the useful idiot marxist who
00:34:32.780 believes this junk and believes that oh there's going to be a utopia at the end of the rainbow
00:34:37.900 there never is there never is um and i i marked this for a long time as a socialist movement a marxist
00:34:46.300 movement however i think the the power and the money behind it is actually more of an oligarchy
00:34:55.260 uh i mean when it all collapses the people at the top of the ladder uh you know some of the white
00:35:01.660 people that started blm and funded blm those are the people with the power and i think they'll snuff
00:35:08.700 these people out uh do you do you see it that way that there's two groups one's just a business
00:35:15.980 oligarchy and a raw uh push for power and money and the other one with this socialist utopia
00:35:26.780 yeah i mean at least at least those two you know and i mean that's always the case when you have these
00:35:33.340 sort of you know ideological battlefields and whatnot but i think you make an important point
00:35:39.180 and that important point is this that you have people like you know robin d'angelo and other you
00:35:45.580 know woke white people who are pushing this who are touting this who are educating on this but there's one
00:35:54.380 thing that they're not doing um they're not divesting themselves of power right um they're they're
00:36:03.420 they're not giving up their seat at the table right and so what they're doing is they're telling
00:36:08.620 everybody else to listen to the voice of the oppressed to elevate the oppressed and so on and so
00:36:15.500 forth but but they're not doing it themselves they're not giving up their seat at the table it's like gandhi
00:36:23.980 and jesus they they lived it they lived it uh and if if you're not living it you i mean i
00:36:33.020 i don't know how people like patrice colors has any credibility i don't i mean there's no critical
00:36:40.700 thinking there's no questioning there's nothing how yeah yeah well again because this is a different
00:36:48.220 religion you know you you you you talk about jesus and and his life and laying down his life right um
00:36:57.260 greater love had no band than this then he laid down his life for his friend and christ comes to
00:37:04.060 redeem sinful humanity through the giving of himself right right and as followers of christ we're called
00:37:12.860 to take up our cross and follow him right um you know deny yourself take up your cross follow me so
00:37:19.100 on and so forth and so one of the things that we're seeing is how fraudulent this new religion
00:37:26.860 is number one because there's no redemption in it at all right it's just that's not just fraudulent that's
00:37:35.020 evil that is an anti-christ uh message i mean and and so that brings me that brings me here you said uh
00:37:45.100 liberation theology and i know about liberation theology what is the difference between liberation
00:37:50.540 theology and critical race theory yeah well there's a couple of things and interestingly enough there's
00:38:00.220 there's a lot of overlap um i talked about ibram kendi um in his book how to be an anti-racist
00:38:06.860 um there was another there was another um instance recently where uh i forget where he was but he was
00:38:13.900 talking about the difference between savior theology and liberation theology and essentially
00:38:19.900 savior theology is people are sinners and they need their souls saved um and he's sort of pooh-poohing
00:38:26.860 that and he's saying no no liberation theology um is a theology that says people need to be delivered
00:38:33.100 from their oppressors right so in many ways there is overlap between critical race theory and liberation
00:38:41.660 theology but the difference is critical race theory specifically comes out of critical legal studies
00:38:48.860 and it is about how we use the law in order to get and liberation and liberation theology started
00:39:00.300 as how do we use the church to get power yes yes yes okay and or to liberate the oppressed right
00:39:07.340 one of them is looking at liberating the oppressed almost exclusively through the courts and laws and so
00:39:15.340 on and so forth the other liberation theology is about this this this this preaching of a different kind of
00:39:24.780 gospel that is pointed toward the liberation of the oppressed as opposed to being pointed towards
00:39:30.300 the individual sinner so voting i have um i can't think of another word other than evil uh for both of these uh
00:39:43.500 ideas um because i mean and and it and it rejects all understanding of human nature you know uh i talked to jordan
00:39:53.100 peterson recently and i said you know i don't know where you stand on god i think you don't believe but you
00:39:58.380 you you appreciate the psychological benefit of being able to start all over again and to have redemption
00:40:07.900 that is that is every hero story is about redemption this completely rejects that and so it leaves people in
00:40:18.780 misery in darkness and in frustration and anger if there is no justice and no forgiveness
00:40:27.420 what do you have left well it's interesting this is why a lot of christians are trying to find this
00:40:35.100 sort of third way a lot of christians would say yeah you know critical race theory you know it's it's i get
00:40:42.620 it it's it's it's a problem but but um they're making some important points there is systemic racism we do
00:40:54.860 have to deal with you know this oppression of of of you know uh minority groups and so on and so forth
00:41:01.660 and so i'm not going to go to war with critical race theory i'm going to try to use it as an
00:41:09.020 analytical tool in order to right to to to to to bring about this this bad society a bad tree cannot
00:41:20.780 bear good fruit amen amen and the other thing is there's nothing that liberation that that liberation
00:41:30.140 theology or critical race theory can give us that the bible doesn't give us everything that it does
00:41:35.820 give us that the bible doesn't give us is wrong it's evil and sinful it's evil and and so this is why
00:41:45.020 again we were like i was talking about earlier we have to acknowledge that that there's a problem
00:41:49.660 but then we've got to expose it we've got to get in there and and analyze this and talk about what it
00:41:57.100 is where it comes from where what its goals are kind of like you and i are doing here um so that we can
00:42:03.420 then get to that third phase which is you know when the apostle paul talks about you know destroying
00:42:09.260 arguments and every lofty opinion raised against the knowledge of god and taking every thought
00:42:13.580 captive to obey christ and this is what i'm trying to get my brothers and sisters my christian brothers
00:42:19.180 and sisters to understand and that is that we have something that is actually lifting itself up
00:42:28.540 against the gospel so then scriptures how can i mean african americans are more religious
00:42:38.940 than white people right now um and they still have that culture of church etc but look at senator war
00:42:46.620 war uh warnock he's a reverend first um and his his church is very popular and it is teaching
00:42:56.700 all of this how did he take real religious god-fearing jesus people and flip the script
00:43:05.260 yeah and i i think that's because of the influence of black liberation theology um it it has been
00:43:15.260 influential for a long time and it's it's kind of the water that a lot of people um were swimming in
00:43:26.300 and there's not much of a leap from black liberation theology to critical race theory but but here's
00:43:34.220 what's ironic about that i want to i want to read this um for you this is from a book teaching for
00:43:41.420 diversity and social justice schools of education are using this all around the country but listen to
00:43:47.340 this in light of what we've talked about the term christian hegemony may startle readers who are not
00:43:54.700 aware of the pervasive cultural position of normative christianity in everyday life within us schools
00:44:01.980 neighborhoods and the workplace hegemony is another way of describing the cultural and societal level of
00:44:09.980 oppression of cultural imperialism as a form of oppression in other words christianity
00:44:18.540 is part of the oppressive hegemony according to critical theory and what so this is why i'm
00:44:30.220 screaming this from the rooftops right not just as an american right um and not just as an american
00:44:37.100 who has lived and is now living you know in another country but as a christian who recognizes
00:44:45.100 that eventually this comes for us and eventually the oppressor you know we're fine when the oppressor is
00:44:54.940 just white people um and then we go okay with white males fine white male heterosexual cisgendered
00:45:02.140 able-bodied native born right all that stuff cool fine but then when we get down the list and we recognize
00:45:09.020 that christian is part of that list and it's not just in this text right um but christianity is seen as
00:45:17.900 part of the oppressive hegemony and so it becomes even more startling that people would embrace critical
00:45:28.540 theory critical race theory um critical pedagogy so on and so forth if they claim to be followers of christ
00:45:39.020 it um as critical race theory is uh just deepening its roots and seemingly strangling everything
00:45:57.820 um you call your book fault lines and i and it's because you say this is
00:46:04.860 an earthquake that's gonna split everything apart can you go into that about what's coming
00:46:11.900 yeah and it's not just what's coming it's what's already here
00:46:15.580 families are being torn apart over this um i talk to people i know you talk to people where their
00:46:21.340 families their relationship with their children with their spouse with their you know parents in-laws
00:46:27.100 it's being torn apart over this uh churches are being split over this uh denominations
00:46:33.660 are at war within themselves over this so what should what what should let's start with christians
00:46:39.500 what should christians look for in their church and and do if they find it yeah well again first we need to
00:46:51.020 acknowledge that this stuff exists second we need to educate ourselves as to just the basics of it the
00:46:58.300 stuff that we've talked about here the main tenets of it and when we understand the basics of it and the
00:47:03.420 maintenance of it then we begin to see how it's influencing the way we talk and the way we think
00:47:10.700 about certain things and there's sort of there's there's red flags that go off you know when we hear
00:47:17.180 people talking about things like diversity equity and inclusion um you know when we hear them talking
00:47:22.860 about you know systemic racism when we hear them talking about you know oppressor oppressed um you know
00:47:29.420 these these sorts of things and and and you know red red flags you know kind of begin to go off and
00:47:35.420 so that doesn't mean that you know whoever's using those terms is completely gone it may just be
00:47:42.700 that they're not being careful it may just be that they're naive whatever but that's when we need to
00:47:48.620 sort of engage and say hey i've become aware of this sinister ideology and i'm kind of concerned
00:47:58.300 because i'm beginning to hear some ideas and some terminology um that seems to be coming from
00:48:05.100 this from this this this sinister ideology um but it's but as you said don lemon they were denying
00:48:12.940 it on television um teachers are now saying i don't care what the law says i'm going to teach it anyway
00:48:20.060 they will say that's not what it is yeah so where do you go in that conversation well where you go is
00:48:27.900 well actually here is what it is and this is one of the reasons that i wrote the book and one of the
00:48:32.460 reasons that i wrote the way that i did i'm hoping that it's one of those tools that people can use
00:48:38.380 to say hey um here's here's something that lays this out for you that that that puts things in
00:48:48.780 people's own words right and demonstrates what this ideology is and where this ideology is coming from
00:48:56.300 and it's not just me there are others out there who are providing resources you know um for people to be
00:49:01.900 able to do this and to be able to go hey here's what it is here's what it teaches and um i even you
00:49:09.100 know bring some of those up uh in in the book and so i think it's important that we have those kind of
00:49:14.380 resources so that we can engage thoughtfully um you know in these in these discussions and in these
00:49:21.420 debates because we need to we need to have these debates and i think that's another point is we've the
00:49:27.100 the 11th commandment right thou shalt be nice um enough already we we need to debate these things
00:49:35.660 and we need to have thick skin and real relationships where we can disagree over things
00:49:43.020 and still come away acknowledging one another's humanity and acknowledging you know for for those of
00:49:49.340 us in the church for one another as brothers and sisters in christ who have a different you know
00:49:53.660 a penis on something or whatever because that's the only way that we sort of get at this we need to
00:49:57.740 debate yes right but we still have to love our enemy which is kind of the basic of kindness but i don't
00:50:03.660 think we look at it that way anymore yeah absolutely um and and and then i think we need to warn people
00:50:11.260 about this right um i i think yeah i wrote this book because i believe i have an obligation you know when i look
00:50:20.140 at for example in titus 1 9 but my obligation as an elder is to hold firm to the trustworthy what is
00:50:25.900 taught so that i can exhort in sound doctrine and refute those who contradict it that's my mandate
00:50:33.420 tell me the the name of the book is fault lines the social justice movement and evangelicalism's
00:50:40.060 looming catastrophe what is the looming catastrophe the looming catastrophe is this divide the looming
00:50:46.700 catastrophe is seeing people's lives in wreckage the looming catastrophe is seeing you know our our
00:50:55.500 children our friends our loved ones at the end of the day riding this train all the way into apostasy
00:51:04.220 riding this train all the way into another version of social gospel um all the way into this christ denying
00:51:13.980 um you know world view and other religion uh that that's what we don't want we don't want to see
00:51:22.380 churches go there we don't want to see individuals go there when this divide comes we want people to be on
00:51:28.300 the right side of it but the divide is coming and it will be catastrophic i know my church talks about
00:51:37.100 and says we will lose half of the membership of the church because they will be swayed um you know
00:51:46.300 away from the gospel and they'll think that they're doing the right thing but uh you know my church at
00:51:52.700 least predicts that 50 of not only everybody's church but our church as well that every church is going to
00:51:58.780 come to a crossroads soon uh where you're going to have to choose and once that choosing happens
00:52:06.540 you're on either the right path or the wrong path and there's not going to be any bystanders this time
00:52:12.620 there's there's no bystander and here's what's so sinister what's so sinister is because these ideologies
00:52:21.100 have masked themselves so well they frame it as you don't want to be on the wrong side of history
00:52:29.740 um racism is real you don't want to deny racism um you know white supremacy is real the people who
00:52:37.260 have a problem with this are white supremacists or they're influenced by white supremacists um if you
00:52:43.740 if you disagree with this and don't want to have this conversation again that's what the book white
00:52:47.420 fragility is all about right um you are white you're a white supremacist you are a racist
00:52:53.180 so on and so forth if you have a problem with that that's because of your white fragility
00:52:58.460 right um so it's kind of like the salem witch trials right yeah um you know it's it's it's also
00:53:04.220 very it's also very much she's innocent if she lives she was a witch right right it is also very
00:53:09.740 reminiscent of uh of the reformation with martin luther he he's being influenced by the devil don't
00:53:17.740 don't follow him don't ask questions the devil is making him ask questions don't be a part of that
00:53:24.700 well there's a lot of people that were like okay well i don't want to be on the side of the devil
00:53:28.940 yeah i mean it's the same kind of thing which is stunning to me how is it that you have
00:53:36.140 such clarity and i i say this i i know the answer but talk about your childhood and in particular
00:53:44.380 your mom yeah and um and that was kind of my favorite part of the book um and i i thought it
00:53:51.180 was important for people to to get to know um me and who i am and where i'm coming from because there
00:53:57.340 are people who say well i you know he thinks this because he's lived this privileged life or whatever and
00:54:03.660 i was raised in south central los angeles by a single teenage mother my mother was a practicing
00:54:09.100 buddhist i never heard the gospel to my first year in university so i didn't grow up in church i didn't
00:54:14.620 grow up you know christianity with christianity um but but my mother did an incredible job of of raising me
00:54:25.740 and of teaching me personal responsibility and one of the one of the stories that i tell
00:54:32.460 in the book is of the time when i got a progress report and this this will tell you what you need
00:54:38.220 to know about my mother i got my progress report and i come home with my progress report this is not
00:54:43.020 my grade by the way it's midway through the semester it's kind of where i stand now okay i get my progress
00:54:49.100 report and my mother looks at it and says you're not playing football so we're in the middle of
00:54:55.100 football season i have to go you know to to to school and tell my coach hey i can't come to
00:55:01.420 practice my mom says i can't play and she's like what and i say yeah she got my progress report he
00:55:07.260 looks at my progress report calls my mother and he's on the phone with my mother he's like ma'am
00:55:11.980 listen this is i mean vote he's vote he's one of the smartest kids you know on the team and my mom
00:55:19.180 goes this is not about how dumb the rest of your players are this is about my son and she goes
00:55:27.820 you know this is this is and so eventually the conversation resume reduces to my coach
00:55:33.500 on the phone with my mother going yes ma'am yes ma'am yes ma'am he hangs up the phone and he says boy
00:55:40.380 you better go get your your studies done now my progress report was a c it was a c i was not
00:55:51.420 failing my class i had a c and francis buckham didn't play that and so i had to sit out for for a
00:56:00.700 while i don't know if i may have missed a game or whatever but that's who my mother was that's how
00:56:07.580 she raised me so she has bought into the she bought into the white lies is what is what would be said
00:56:15.260 now yeah that's what would be said that's what would be said about about my 60s radical you know yeah
00:56:25.420 yeah that's funny absolutely um yes the whole idea of personal responsibility you know um
00:56:35.500 but that's just something that is always just really resonated with me and that's one of the
00:56:41.260 things that really breaks my heart about this whole you know critical race theory systemic racism thing
00:56:48.060 because it can't just acknowledge that racism exists and then say what are issues and problems that we can
00:56:57.180 point to that are contributing to disparities like for example fatherlessness no no you can't do that
00:57:04.620 that that's blaming the victim or as d'angelo would call it that's aversive racism well what do you end up
00:57:12.220 with if my mother is wrong for teaching me that racism was not the biggest obstacle in my life but that my
00:57:26.540 character would be what what what kind of world do we live in where my mother was out of line
00:57:35.100 for raising me like that because essentially in many ways that's what we're saying now people say no
00:57:41.420 we'd never say that but if you follow these ideas to their logical conclusion that's where you end up going
00:57:48.380 where we're merely speaking about personal responsibility now becomes uh offensive um and so that's that's again
00:57:58.780 one of the sinister parts of this running and i believe that that goes right along with the idea of taking
00:58:04.540 people away from the truth of the gospel and through christ being our only hope it's our only hope and then he
00:58:12.220 transforms our lives and teaches us how to walk in righteousness right and so again it's sinister that
00:58:24.940 we're running away from these things and we catastrophic for those who end up on that side
00:58:30.700 of the fault line um and my hope is that um that people to the right side of the fault line i hope so
00:58:39.020 too uh voti uh your your uh voice as i told you the first time we spoke your voice right time right
00:58:48.060 place and so very important thank you for writing this book uh if you would like to if you'd like to
00:58:54.460 read and really understand what's going on the book's name is fault lines the social justice movement
00:59:01.420 and evangelicalism's looming catastrophe voti thank you we'll talk again my friend god bless thank you
00:59:08.860 very much i really appreciate it just a reminder i'd love you to rate and subscribe to the podcast
00:59:20.380 and pass this on to a friend so it can be discovered by other people
00:59:38.860 you
00:59:39.420 you