The Glenn Beck Program - December 22, 2018


Ep 16 ｜ Ron Hall ｜ The Glenn Beck Podcast


Episode Stats


Harmful content

Misogyny

32

sentences flagged

Toxicity

31

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Hate speech

18

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Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

Glenn and Ron talk about their unlikely paths to becoming best friends and how they became best friends. Ron talks about how he almost didn t go to college and how he ended up at the University of Texas, while Glenn talks about his unlikely path to becoming a movie star.

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
00:00:00.000 Ron, your journey is perhaps one of the most unexpected.
00:00:23.600 Could you have planned a more bizarre path of your life?
00:00:28.640 Oh, Glenn, I'll have to tell you that if I read my books and saw my film, I would want
00:00:35.840 to call BS on it because, you know, if it had not happened to me, I couldn't believe anyone
00:00:41.560 else would have lived or survived what we went through in this friendship with Denver.
00:00:47.640 Let me go back before we get to you and to Denver.
00:00:52.440 If I summarized your, one of the main points that I got from this story is a good woman 0.96
00:01:07.000 can change the world.
00:01:11.180 Well, behind every successful man is a praying and good woman. 0.80
00:01:16.600 And I was privileged to be married to one of the all time best.
00:01:24.160 I think she will go down in history just through people that see our film and read our books
00:01:29.420 as one of the most inspirational women of America, a very unlikely, very ordinary woman, brave,
00:01:37.160 very brave, very brave, but not always that way.
00:01:41.220 It was, it was, uh, the last few years of her life.
00:01:46.420 I believe that God was preparing her for something that would ultimately impact our country and
00:01:53.580 hopefully the world.
00:01:54.840 And this is when I guess she was given an extra measure of bravery and, and maybe a bigger
00:02:02.720 heart than she ever had.
00:02:05.020 So let's start at the beginning.
00:02:06.820 You grew up on a farm here in Fort Worth.
00:02:09.880 Well, no, out, uh, say 80 miles South of Fort Worth.
00:02:12.940 Okay.
00:02:13.780 Um, and, uh, you grew up, uh, picking cotton. 0.98
00:02:19.160 I did pick cotton.
00:02:20.380 I chopped cotton.
00:02:21.860 You chopped cotton.
00:02:22.920 And I picked cotton.
00:02:24.320 I don't think people even think of cotton anymore.
00:02:26.820 I mean, just don't think of picking cotton.
00:02:28.900 I pulled corn.
00:02:30.180 Yeah.
00:02:30.560 Mm-hmm.
00:02:30.980 So you grew up, uh, and left home, went to college.
00:02:37.260 I did go to college.
00:02:38.260 Yes.
00:02:38.580 Join the army on the army.
00:02:40.760 Well, I didn't actually join the army when I was drafted.
00:02:44.360 You were invited.
00:02:45.880 I was, I got a knock on my, uh, fraternity house door one day saying, congratulations.
00:02:52.100 You have been selected to be an uncle Sam's army. 0.70
00:02:56.360 And it was due to my poor grades in school.
00:02:59.560 Really?
00:03:00.460 I had fallen below a 2.0 grade point average.
00:03:03.920 And that was just what the government was, uncle Sam was looking for, to, uh, to put a
00:03:09.920 rifle in your hand and send you off to Vietnam. 0.81
00:03:12.600 So, so, um, because you're, you're a very bright man, just a screw off. 0.96
00:03:17.520 Oh, absolutely. 0.91
00:03:19.080 I was majoring in fraternity and, uh, rich girls.
00:03:22.440 Right.
00:03:23.140 Because I had grown up so poor, I couldn't pay attention.
00:03:25.940 Right.
00:03:26.600 And I came to TCU in search of a rich girl. 1.00
00:03:30.460 Literally.
00:03:31.120 That's literally, that was my, I, I had no plan to, uh, for a future.
00:03:38.480 I didn't have, uh, uh, uh, any other goal other than to marry a rich girl and maybe go 0.51
00:03:44.200 to work for her daddy or something like that. 1.00
00:03:46.060 That's amazing.
00:03:47.700 That's a pretty shallow goal.
00:03:50.520 That's just, I went to a high school when we're only less than 10% of our graduating
00:03:56.620 class went to college.
00:03:57.900 We didn't have a college advisor.
00:03:59.700 You know, just one day the principal made an announcement and said, if anybody wants to
00:04:04.180 go to college, you have to take a test and we're going to give it on Saturday morning
00:04:07.660 in the cafeteria.
00:04:09.300 Wow.
00:04:09.780 And about 20 people showed up to take the test and, uh, it was, you know, the ACT.
00:04:16.320 And, uh, the next thing I know, I went to the, uh, the principal and I said, I do want
00:04:21.360 to go to college.
00:04:22.120 And I said, what do you, where do you think I should go?
00:04:23.900 And he said, well, I only know of two colleges and it's called North Texas or East Texas.
00:04:29.800 And I said, oh, well, I said, I guess I'll go to East Texas because my mother had attended
00:04:34.980 North Texas and I didn't like Denton very much at the time.
00:04:39.240 And, uh, I've grown to love it now, but, uh, I didn't at the time, I just, I didn't have
00:04:43.980 good memories of Denton.
00:04:45.320 So I went off to East Texas, never having been there.
00:04:47.880 And I spent a year there and then heard all the rich girls were at TCU. 1.00
00:04:51.500 All the farm girls were at East Texas at the time.
00:04:53.460 Right.
00:04:53.940 But the rich girls I heard were at TCU. 1.00
00:04:56.180 So that's why I decided to make my career plan and move to TCU.
00:05:00.620 And, and that's where you met your, I met, yes, Debra, your wife, my future wife, my
00:05:05.700 future wife.
00:05:06.440 I met her.
00:05:07.620 And what was she like?
00:05:09.560 Well, she was a stunning beauty, tall. 1.00
00:05:12.940 And, uh, I remember her walking across the campus.
00:05:16.180 The first time I laid eyes on her, she was in a military uniform because she was in a, 0.96
00:05:21.620 uh, an honor society called the angel flight where they wore air force blue uniforms, like
00:05:27.600 an air force officer would wear.
00:05:31.100 And, um, and her, she was a tall, dark and beautiful woman, but her name is said short. 1.00
00:05:37.240 And I thought it's an odd name for such a tall, beautiful woman to be short. 1.00
00:05:41.460 So I inquired about her and, uh, in a friend of mine, we saw her walking through the student
00:05:47.740 center and, um, a friend of mine named Glenn Whittington, uh, was coming.
00:05:54.080 Uh, he was sitting there and I said, that's the girl I want to ask for a date.
00:05:57.920 And so he just stopped her and he said, Hey, my friend, uh, Ron wants to ask you for a date.
00:06:02.540 And so she looked over at me and she said, if he wants to ask me for a date, he will call
00:06:06.840 me.
00:06:07.540 Boy, I tell you as, as much of this story so far that has changed in time, that hasn't
00:06:15.140 changed.
00:06:16.320 That hasn't changed.
00:06:18.520 Uh, all right.
00:06:19.380 So was she rich?
00:06:21.060 No, no, no, not at all.
00:06:24.380 Not at all.
00:06:25.480 This, um, you know, even though I went in search of, um, a rich girl, um, I found one with a 1.00
00:06:36.280 big heart and, um, and that was, uh, that was, I guess what I had thought I wanted.
00:06:46.800 God had something else in mind for me.
00:06:48.760 Um, she was spiritual.
00:06:51.800 Not at the time.
00:06:52.840 Not at the time.
00:06:53.500 Oh no, she was a fun, loving sorority girl. 0.81
00:06:56.940 And, uh, really?
00:06:57.920 Oh yeah.
00:06:58.820 Yeah.
00:06:59.180 But, uh, no, her spiritual journey came after we got married.
00:07:03.500 I guess when she realized that she had married probably someone without much vision.
00:07:09.180 And, you know, it sent her to her knees.
00:07:13.200 Right.
00:07:13.500 Right.
00:07:14.060 So you, when you came back from the military, you became a Campbell soup salesman?
00:07:19.820 I did.
00:07:20.960 Right.
00:07:21.280 My father had sold Coca-Cola and, uh, he, he called on grocery stores selling it.
00:07:27.560 I mean, you would think who needs to sell a Coca-Cola.
00:07:30.520 Right.
00:07:30.720 But, uh, they had salespeople that would go out and sell and try to get you to do big displays.
00:07:36.140 So he wanted me to be in the food business.
00:07:39.580 It was, uh, first of all, he wanted me to be a veterinarian so I could take care of his
00:07:43.960 dogs for free.
00:07:45.920 Right.
00:07:46.040 And then, um, when I signed up for chemistry and I dropped it, uh, right before the final exam with
00:07:53.740 the 13 average, I said, I don't think I'm going to make it into vet school.
00:07:57.980 So I had, I changed my, um, career path at the time.
00:08:03.520 The only thing I could think of to take was, um, to be an agriculture major because I loved
00:08:10.200 ranching and farming.
00:08:11.300 I'd grown up on the farm.
00:08:12.820 I had even tried bull riding and bronc riding and, uh, became a team roper and things like
00:08:17.920 that.
00:08:18.300 So I thought agriculture was a natural path for me.
00:08:21.100 So I, I signed up for poultry 124 and, um, and I signed up for livestock production and,
00:08:30.120 and, uh, and never used it in your life.
00:08:32.940 Never did.
00:08:33.540 Well, you know, I, and poultry 124, I discovered that's where, um, you know, chicken don't have
00:08:41.120 fingers.
00:08:42.280 Right.
00:08:43.280 Right.
00:08:43.720 Okay.
00:08:44.240 Good.
00:08:45.220 Um, all right.
00:08:46.420 So you guys get married, you become a Campbell soup salesman.
00:08:50.200 Um, how long are you doing that?
00:08:52.540 Oh, less than a year until I was in a, um, the back of a Walmart, not, not a Kmart.
00:08:59.620 I was in the back of a Kmart when a case of potted meat exploded into my face and, and took
00:09:06.020 me down really when I, when I was covered in goo head to toe and, uh, I was in the east
00:09:12.760 side of Dallas and I had to drive back to Fort Worth with my heads hanging out the window
00:09:17.720 of my car because I smelled like, uh, spoiled potted meat.
00:09:23.220 And, uh, the next day I said, um, I read in the paper actually where they were looking for salespeople
00:09:31.520 to make a hundred thousand dollars a year.
00:09:33.460 And so I took this a hundred thousand dollar a year job and moved to San Antonio.
00:09:37.920 And that job was?
00:09:39.080 The job was selling, uh, insurance, uh, selling stock in a new insurance company that went
00:09:46.880 bankrupt after three weeks.
00:09:48.480 And I, they told me I had earned, uh, almost $10,000 in those first 10 weeks.
00:09:54.940 But when the company settled up with me, I got a check for $13 and 87 cents.
00:10:01.100 Wow.
00:10:01.700 And we spent that $13 and 87 cents, uh, eating, uh, 10 cent bean rolls at Tecumolino in San
00:10:09.900 Antonio for three weeks till we could figure out what to do.
00:10:12.580 And that's when I said, I think I need to go back to TCU and get an education.
00:10:16.540 So you eventually go to become a banker.
00:10:19.340 I did.
00:10:20.280 I graduated from TCU, got an MBA in finance.
00:10:24.180 And, uh, and so I'm so proud of my university.
00:10:27.240 They just gave me this last year, the, uh, distinguished alumni award.
00:10:31.500 And I was the least likely person ever to receive this award because I did not have a
00:10:36.100 distinguished career at TCU.
00:10:38.580 Right.
00:10:39.100 So you go into banking and you, how do you discover art?
00:10:44.940 Well, I discovered art because I was in Houston bidding on some water and sewer bonds.
00:10:50.780 I was, uh, a bond trader for, uh, the first national bank of Fort Worth and an underwriter.
00:10:55.920 So we would, uh, when cities and municipalities were issuing bonds, we would go bid on them.
00:11:03.000 And we had to have a certain amount of bonds in our portfolio.
00:11:06.980 So I was there bidding on bonds and I had about, you know, three hours to kill before
00:11:11.020 the, before the auction.
00:11:13.160 Would you actually had an auction for them back in those days?
00:11:15.800 It's all different today.
00:11:16.640 But, um, we didn't have computers back then.
00:11:19.960 So we had to figure out our bids by hand.
00:11:22.980 And actually the bank hired me, someone I'd never even seen a computer to write the first
00:11:27.360 computer program for trading bonds.
00:11:29.680 I don't know how I did it, but I did.
00:11:31.140 So, but, uh, so while I had about three hours to kill, I just wandered into an art gallery
00:11:37.260 that was near by where the bidding was going to be.
00:11:40.000 And this guy was telling me about his life and traveling all over the world and buying
00:11:44.700 and selling, uh, paintings and, uh, he had, um, he had just returned from Paris and I had
00:11:54.000 never been out of Texas except in the army.
00:11:56.720 And, uh, and I thought, well, that sounds exciting.
00:11:59.160 It sounds like a better job than sitting here in Houston, waiting to bid on some water and
00:12:03.920 sewer bonds.
00:12:04.780 Right.
00:12:04.960 So, uh, and then go out to Fort Stockton, Texas to sell them or something.
00:12:09.840 That was what I was doing.
00:12:11.680 So, uh, I asked him, I said, how do you become an art dealer?
00:12:14.840 And he said, well, uh, nobody's going to hire you to do it.
00:12:18.220 You have to buy and you have to sell.
00:12:20.080 So he gave me, uh, he said, here's, here's something you can make money on.
00:12:24.340 And he showed me a painting and it was a Texas blue bonnet painting that had been painted in
00:12:28.860 the 1930s.
00:12:29.940 And he said, he said, this is a $5,000 painting, $5,000, $6,000 painting.
00:12:35.420 I'll sell it to you for $3,500 and, um, you can make, you know, a couple thousand dollars
00:12:42.460 on it.
00:12:42.840 And I thought, wow, that's a great offer, except I don't have $3,500.
00:12:47.980 And, uh, he said, well, do you, are you an officer of the bank?
00:12:51.080 I said, yes, I'm an officer of the bank, but I didn't, haven't even received my first check
00:12:54.660 yet.
00:12:54.900 You know, we only got paid once a month and, and I hadn't even been there a month.
00:12:58.340 So he said, well, I'll, uh, you know, just, you write me a check and you go back to the
00:13:04.380 bank.
00:13:04.680 I was only making $600 a month.
00:13:06.860 Wow.
00:13:07.400 So this would have been half of my annual salary.
00:13:10.140 My wife was teaching school, making $300 a month.
00:13:13.860 This is in 1969.
00:13:15.880 Well, this is 1971 by then.
00:13:17.760 But, uh, so, uh, I went back to the bank.
00:13:21.060 They loaned me the $3,500 to cover my hot check.
00:13:23.920 And they said, if you don't pay it off in 90 days, you know, you will lose your job.
00:13:28.460 And I said, okay.
00:13:30.280 So I had to go to work to selling this painting.
00:13:32.980 And on the 89th day, I finally sold it for $5,500.
00:13:38.140 I made $2,000 on it.
00:13:40.060 And then my mind was totally off of banking and, uh, had switched to art.
00:13:45.200 I want to, um, skip ahead a little bit.
00:14:01.120 This becomes big for you.
00:14:03.920 You become a big art dealer.
00:14:06.660 Well, within a year, I was making more than the chairman of the board of the bank where
00:14:11.680 I was, I was making more as an art dealer than the chairman of the board of the bank
00:14:15.880 with a 40 year career in banking was making.
00:14:19.120 You have sold paintings and art to all kinds of famous people, um, all over the world, all
00:14:24.480 over the world.
00:14:24.920 You were going to Paris.
00:14:26.080 You were going to Asia, Hong Kong, every, I was all over the world.
00:14:31.260 And you were living a high life.
00:14:33.100 I was.
00:14:34.140 And your wife, how was she with the high life?
00:14:36.400 And it was not, uh, I'd have to say she was secretly enjoying it because, you know, we
00:14:43.380 were living in several million dollars homes and properties.
00:14:47.380 We had vacation homes and, you know, we were flying privately and things and it was a big
00:14:53.440 life.
00:14:53.820 Uh, but you know, her heart was not, she, she in a way could secretly enjoy it.
00:15:02.040 But in another way, she saw that it was eating away at my soul because, uh, I say that we
00:15:08.860 both read a book called purpose-driven lives and I discovered, she discovered her purpose
00:15:14.260 in life was, uh, chasing after the almighty God.
00:15:18.280 And my purpose in life was chasing after the almighty dollar and a few other things.
00:15:23.700 So, uh, and you had some real rough patches, um, in your marriage.
00:15:31.020 Um, and she said, if we get therapy, we can put our marriage back together.
00:15:38.140 Right.
00:15:39.000 And at what point is she now when she's really, when this is happening at what, where are you
00:15:46.480 mentally with God and where is she at the beginning of this cusp that's about to change your life?
00:15:55.360 Well, um, you know, I, out of, uh, when we first got married, when we adopted our first
00:16:03.560 child in 1973, we both realized that we needed something spiritual in our lives because we were
00:16:11.680 just a couple of party animals, uh, that with now a new baby that we had adopted.
00:16:17.740 So, uh, you know, she began studying the religions of the world and she had decided that she thought
00:16:25.140 Christianity was the best thing for her.
00:16:27.920 And along the way, I had decided the same thing, even though I became a believer in Christianity
00:16:33.680 before she did.
00:16:35.000 So, um, but through this path, even though I was a believer, you know, I was a, uh, a
00:16:44.020 pew warmer in church and a check writer for certain causes, but was not active in really
00:16:51.500 in pursuing.
00:16:52.900 To be fair, in many ways, you were kind of the typical Christian.
00:16:58.120 I mean, there's a lot of Christians that are like, no, I'm absolutely Christian, but
00:17:03.100 well, you know, you kind of go and you check in.
00:17:05.740 Well, I'll tell you a story about that later with Denver because he challenged me.
00:17:09.320 Well, I just said right now, the first day I ever met Denver, he asked me, he said, why
00:17:13.960 is it all you Christians worship one homeless man on Sunday and turn you back on the first 0.67
00:17:20.780 one you see on Monday?
00:17:23.060 So, you know, that was the homeless and, and people that were actually turned out to be
00:17:28.120 smarter than me.
00:17:28.920 That was their view on Christianity.
00:17:32.280 And, uh, he told me one time, he said, uh, there's way too much Bible study and, and
00:17:37.360 ain't nearly enough Bible doings.
00:17:39.360 That's absolutely right.
00:17:41.140 So, uh, but anyway.
00:17:43.220 Okay.
00:17:43.400 So she is, she comes to you at what point does she come to you and say, Hey, we've got to go
00:17:50.880 down to this mission, which is the scariest place in Dallas at the time.
00:17:57.000 Well, this was in Fort Worth.
00:17:58.400 We went to the Fort Worth mission in downtown Fort Worth, but it will, you know, this was
00:18:02.660 actually 10 years after I had my affair and, uh, that she told me, if you will not do this
00:18:09.040 again, you can see it in our film.
00:18:10.520 I write about it in the books, but it's a really, it was a turning point in my life because
00:18:14.620 I had, our lives had taken a totally different path.
00:18:17.700 I was ready to end the marriage and destroy a family.
00:18:21.380 And, uh, she wasn't quite ready to willing to give up on me.
00:18:26.120 And, uh, so when she, the, the day that I came home and admitted what I had done, uh,
00:18:33.880 she told me, she said, if you will not do this again, if you will seek counseling, I will
00:18:39.920 never bring this up again.
00:18:41.800 And she said, I will throw your sin as far as the East is from the West and you were
00:18:46.620 forgiven.
00:18:47.500 And I thought, wow, that's, that is a deal I cannot refuse.
00:18:52.280 So I said, okay, if you will do that, I will do anything.
00:18:55.700 You ask me the rest of our lives together.
00:18:59.300 And from that day forward, she never mentioned that again.
00:19:03.020 And we put our marriage back together and we had one of the most beautiful marriages in
00:19:08.380 the world.
00:19:09.160 And, and it was 10 years later, Glenn, that she asked me to do the very first thing that
00:19:16.100 was, took me out of my comfort zone.
00:19:17.680 The only thing she had asked me to be was be faithful after the, after my falling.
00:19:23.140 And so, um, we rocked along.
00:19:26.320 Life was great.
00:19:27.460 Business was good.
00:19:28.820 Everything.
00:19:29.200 She was, uh, I wasn't, she was becoming involved in a lot of, uh, homeless and, uh, just working 0.98
00:19:35.940 with poor people where she worked with AIDS babies at Brian's house in Dallas.
00:19:40.340 And she had started a couple of do, uh, ministries, uh, uh, call, uh, that would had to do with
00:19:46.160 bringing in women out of prison and getting them resituated in homes. 0.93
00:19:50.860 And you're still doing the art.
00:19:52.280 I'm doing the art thing.
00:19:53.080 Totally.
00:19:53.540 I mean, I'm traveling all over the world.
00:19:54.940 I'm doing art fairs in every major country around the world.
00:19:58.140 And, and so I was not active in any of those things.
00:20:01.880 So, uh, it was, uh, in the year of 1998, we moved from Dallas.
00:20:09.280 We lived, lived in Highland park in Dallas, and, uh, we decided to move back to Fort Worth
00:20:13.220 to be closer to our ranch, which was on the Brazos river west of Fort Worth.
00:20:17.640 And, um, so at that first few days we were back in Fort Worth, uh, she had a dream and it
00:20:27.080 was a literal dream.
00:20:28.020 And she, in the, in her dream, she saw the face of a homeless man.
00:20:32.620 And the next morning she told me, she said, Ron, it was like the verse in Ecclesiastes
00:20:37.000 in the old Testament, uh, where Solomon wrote, there was found in the city, a certain poor
00:20:41.340 man who was wise.
00:20:42.400 And by his wisdom, our city was changed.
00:20:45.540 And she said, I think it's even more important, Ron, that our lives will be changed.
00:20:49.600 If we can find this man in my dream.
00:20:52.240 She said, my dream, I literally saw his face.
00:20:55.720 And would you go with me into the inner city to find this man in my dream?
00:20:59.380 What did you think of that?
00:21:00.720 Well, I knew she wasn't crazy.
00:21:02.580 She was a, she was a, uh, a scholar at TCU.
00:21:05.460 She graduated with honors and she was there on an academic scholarship.
00:21:09.420 So she wasn't nuts.
00:21:10.700 She was not nuts.
00:21:11.940 Was she somebody who claimed to have dreams before?
00:21:14.640 She had only had one other dream she claimed was spiritual and it had come about and it
00:21:19.800 was true.
00:21:20.540 And she discovered a year after she had the dream, it was validated that it was true.
00:21:25.360 So, uh, and that was a really exciting thing for her.
00:21:28.200 And this was only the second spiritual dream that she ever had.
00:21:31.400 And it was probably three or four years after that first one.
00:21:34.340 So that dream takes you to...
00:21:37.340 Well, the next morning after that dream, she asked me to go with her into the inner city.
00:21:41.620 So instead of going to my art gallery that day, I get in the car with her and we drive
00:21:46.280 into the inner city of Fort Worth and began driving, you know, very slowly around, uh, looking
00:21:53.120 for this man and her dream.
00:21:55.120 That had to seem nuts.
00:21:57.340 Well, it did, except she was so absolutely certain that she would find him and that this
00:22:04.740 dream was from God.
00:22:06.360 And, uh, so I was just being nice about it as I could.
00:22:11.540 I didn't really want to be there, but we drove around and we didn't see him.
00:22:16.140 Uh, oh, the people were looking at us like we were crazy because I mean, you know, when
00:22:20.320 you're driving a very expensive vehicle in a place that people are trading drugs and prostitution.
00:22:26.160 And you've got two white people looking around like, oh, let me see what your face looks 0.90
00:22:30.280 like.
00:22:30.560 Yes.
00:22:31.020 You're popular.
00:22:31.760 Yes, exactly.
00:22:32.960 So, uh, we had, people were telling us to get out of there and, but we ended up volunteering
00:22:38.320 that afternoon at the Fort Worth union gospel mission.
00:22:42.840 And, uh, we'd been there a couple of weeks, uh, just, well, I'd say the, when I first walked
00:22:49.040 in, when you mentioned the mission, it was just a rundown old cinder block building that
00:22:55.280 stunk to high heaven.
00:22:56.400 And it's not a place that I had ever been in any place like that, that smelled so bad
00:23:01.680 or looked so bad.
00:23:02.600 And I was, uh, I was a little bit terrified.
00:23:05.560 People were looking like they were out of some horror movie that were there.
00:23:10.540 And, uh, so I asked the chef, I said, are there any infectious diseases floating around
00:23:15.260 this place that I should know about?
00:23:16.720 And he said, oh, absolutely.
00:23:18.080 He said, we tried to infect them all with love.
00:23:20.540 And I thought this wise guy, why would he tell me that?
00:23:25.160 But anyway, so we began serving at the mission that day and, um, and made a commitment that
00:23:32.240 we would begin, we would continue serving, uh, for the next, whatever.
00:23:36.480 We didn't have an ending.
00:23:37.820 And you're doing this on that day out of loyalty, out of respect, but kind of begrudgingly
00:23:44.640 kind of quietly.
00:23:46.140 Yeah.
00:23:46.400 Yes.
00:23:46.660 Yes.
00:23:46.940 Yeah.
00:23:47.140 Yeah.
00:23:47.420 Quietly begrudgingly.
00:23:48.780 I mean, she could tell.
00:23:49.880 Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:23:50.680 Yeah.
00:23:51.000 Yeah.
00:23:51.200 She could tell.
00:23:51.480 You're going along with your wife. 0.92
00:23:52.820 I'm going along with the wife. 0.90
00:23:54.120 And the subject didn't come up that I was doing it to pay penance for what I had done
00:24:00.140 12 years earlier, 10 years earlier.
00:24:02.340 Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:24:02.780 But, uh, so, um, so I just, I just did it and said, this is something I have to endure.
00:24:09.600 Yeah.
00:24:09.960 This is Debbie and I owe this to her, but I'm not telling anybody else that.
00:24:13.440 Right.
00:24:13.740 Okay.
00:24:13.940 So you're there.
00:24:15.880 Two weeks go by.
00:24:17.580 Mm-hmm.
00:24:18.240 Guy walks in.
00:24:19.180 And he's pretty violent.
00:24:20.940 He doesn't walk in.
00:24:22.060 Okay.
00:24:22.820 He storms in.
00:24:24.840 He breaks down almost a door coming in and he's screaming at the top of his lungs. 1.00
00:24:30.980 I'm going to kill whoever done it. 1.00
00:24:32.840 I'm going to kill whoever stole my shoes. 1.00
00:24:35.260 And he starts turning over tables and he throwing punches. 0.98
00:24:39.740 And he's, and I look and here's this giant looking man with no shirt and no shoes and some raggedy old unzipped britches.
00:24:48.800 And he is destroying the place.
00:24:51.100 And, and, and there's blood and cursing and fighting everywhere.
00:24:55.120 And people are running and taking cover.
00:24:57.280 The only thing I could think to do was take cover myself.
00:25:00.200 So I'm standing behind a stainless steel serving line, which was the safest place in the whole building.
00:25:06.340 And, uh, because we had a, I had a barrier there between me, but I saw there where we had taken out some pots and pans.
00:25:13.360 There were some holes where I could stick my head.
00:25:15.840 So I stuck my head under one of these things because I had taken a knockout punch in the golden gloves in high school.
00:25:22.360 And I never wanted to get hit in the nose again.
00:25:24.260 That was not fun.
00:25:25.300 So, uh, the fight was getting closer to me.
00:25:28.960 So I stick my head under this hole and, uh, all of a sudden, I still hear all the screaming and the pandemonium.
00:25:36.500 And I'm thinking, I wonder what happened to Debbie.
00:25:39.520 So, uh, so all of a sudden I, I was a self-preservation.
00:25:45.000 Yeah.
00:25:45.280 Yeah.
00:25:45.720 No, you are, you are not a white knight at any point so far.
00:25:49.060 So I stick my head out and I look and she is so excited.
00:25:53.100 She's jumping up and down like a cheerleader on the sideline of a football game. 1.00
00:25:57.420 And she's like, Oh, that's him.
00:25:59.500 That's him.
00:26:00.240 And I said, that's who I reached up and I look right over the edge and I said, that's who.
00:26:05.880 And she said, that's the man in my dream.
00:26:08.480 And by then, of course, the whole dining room was filled with, uh, homeless men that were all fighting and trying to get away from the fight.
00:26:16.540 So I said, which one?
00:26:18.440 And she said, the one who's threatening to kill everybody. 1.00
00:26:23.100 And then she had to look down at me cause I'm still on my knees.
00:26:26.880 Right.
00:26:27.320 And so she looked down at me and she said, and Ron, I believe I heard from God that you have to be his friend and find out if my dream is really from God.
00:26:36.760 And I said, but Debbie, I was not at that meeting you had with God.
00:26:41.140 If I'm going to be friends with someone who wants to kill everybody, maybe I should go talk to God myself.
00:26:47.880 So, uh, so I asked one of the guys who was standing next to me in the serving line of a homeless guy. 0.97
00:26:53.360 And I said, who is that crazy man?
00:26:54.880 He said, nobody knows his name, but he's been on the streets longer than anybody here can remember. 0.67
00:27:00.280 And he said, uh, most people refer to him as the lion of the jungle because he rules the streets with fear and intimidation.
00:27:08.980 Oh my God.
00:27:09.660 And he said, uh, a lot of people just call him suicide because messing with him is really the equivalent of committing suicide. 0.99
00:27:17.360 Said he's crazy. 0.99
00:27:18.780 He's dangerous and he'll hurt you. 0.97
00:27:21.120 He said, keep your distance from him.
00:27:23.660 And I said, thank you.
00:27:25.000 That is really good advice that you're giving me.
00:27:27.040 Right. 0.96
00:27:27.260 As opposed to what my crazy wife is telling me. 1.00
00:27:30.380 And I have a feeling your crazy wife didn't care about that advice. 1.00
00:27:33.800 No, she did not. 0.98
00:27:35.480 In fact, she told me every morning, um, well, the security guards and everybody, police, they came, they dragged him away.
00:27:43.260 And, um, for that day.
00:27:45.800 And, uh, but you know, at her insistence every morning, she would ask me to please go into the inner city to see if I could get him in my car and take him to get coffee or something.
00:27:56.020 And so every morning, this is literally every morning I would drive into the inner city and look for him.
00:28:02.880 And I would usually see him cause I knew where he hung out.
00:28:05.200 He lived really by a dumpster, uh, close to the mission.
00:28:08.800 And that was his, it was his campground there.
00:28:12.140 And, um, I would see him and he would see me and then he would take off.
00:28:15.740 So I would secretly thank God.
00:28:18.260 Yes.
00:28:18.620 Thank God that, you know, he ran away.
00:28:20.520 I didn't have to meet him, but it was actually a couple of weeks later.
00:28:23.520 We saw him come through the serving line again.
00:28:26.000 It was only the second time we saw him.
00:28:27.800 And he was the last person that came through the serving line that day as we were about to shut down.
00:28:32.900 And so, uh, Debbie, uh, had made a promise that she was going to learn the names of every homeless person on the streets of Fort Worth and specifically pray for their needs every day, uh, and become friends with them.
00:28:46.520 And so she had made an effort to do that.
00:28:48.400 And so he was one of the people that she had not learned his name yet.
00:28:52.080 So as he put two plates in front, which was against mission policy to serve two plates to one person, uh, I was trying to, uh, I said, you just get the rules, buddy, you know?
00:29:02.460 And she said, no, no, no.
00:29:03.500 So she's put her face down really low.
00:29:05.560 And she said, hello there.
00:29:06.460 My name is Debbie.
00:29:07.280 What is your name?
00:29:08.400 And he screamed at her.
00:29:09.980 You don't need to know my name.
00:29:12.060 He said, I'm a very bad man. 0.98
00:29:13.860 Now you just shut up and put some food on these plates and I'm going to get on out of here. 0.95
00:29:18.540 And I'll tell you, uh, the next thing I know, she leaps over the serving line, like a high jumper in the Olympic finals. 1.00
00:29:27.160 I never saw anything like it in my life.
00:29:30.020 She leaps over the serving line. 1.00
00:29:32.460 She chest butts him like two football players on the, on a, in a game. 1.00
00:29:36.780 And she starts tapping him on the nose saying, you are not a bad man.
00:29:41.460 You are in fact a good man that God has a calling on your life and you're going to live to see it.
00:29:47.100 His fists were doubled up like this and he was shaking.
00:29:49.980 I thought he's going to take her out.
00:29:51.520 And I looked down and my fists were shaking and I was doubled up like this and thinking, well, if he hits her, I'm running out the back door.
00:29:59.380 She got herself in this mess.
00:30:01.480 I'm not going to fight a man they call suicide.
00:30:03.660 So, uh, anyway, luckily he sidestepped her and left the building and, uh, but some, um, person that was standing next to me said, my, my, my, I never thought I'd see some little skinny little white lady tame the lion of the jungle. 1.00
00:30:17.780 Wow.
00:30:18.600 And, uh, so that began a really serious adventure into a cat and mouse chase that lasted five months until I got him in my car.
00:30:26.720 How do you get him in the car?
00:30:49.940 We started doing a lot of things with the homeless.
00:30:52.540 We started having a movie night once a week.
00:30:55.100 We had a beauty shop day once a week where we would give pedicures and manicures and haircuts and styling and all these kinds of things.
00:31:03.360 Uh, Debbie was doing everything and bringing our friends into, to try to make a difference, you know, to, to put a new face on homelessness and make them look beautiful and elevate their self image.
00:31:14.160 So, uh, the, uh, in fact, my, my friend told me one time, Denver, after I got to know him, he said, you know, most people look at the homeless as a problem.
00:31:23.400 He said, but God looks at them as an opportunity for the faithful to show his love.
00:31:29.580 So we were taking this as an opportunity to show the love of God to people who consider themselves unlovable.
00:31:37.120 But, uh, so anyway, we were having a, we advertised, we were going to have a, um, a concert at the house of blues, not a house of blues at, uh, downtown Fort Worth at, um, uh, Sundance square.
00:31:51.260 We had had a theater down there.
00:31:53.360 So we announced we were having a concert and, uh, he actually got in my car though.
00:31:58.300 He didn't say a word to go to the concert.
00:32:01.380 And, uh, that night he, um, I went to sit by him and, um, I, uh, he was sitting up in the, in the concert.
00:32:11.460 He didn't say anything to me when we were traveling there, but I go up and sit by him.
00:32:14.580 And I said, uh, Denver, I'm glad you came.
00:32:17.060 And I put my hand on his knee.
00:32:18.740 He grabbed my hand and threw it off his knees and man, don't you ever touch me.
00:32:22.520 And, uh, he scared me to death and then he got up and walked out. 0.91
00:32:27.120 So he missed the concert just because I sat next to him and I thought, this guy's crazy.
00:32:31.660 But on the way out, he was standing by my car and he was smoking a cigarette and he said, I want to apologize to you.
00:32:38.480 He said, you and your wife been trying to be nice to me for a long time now.
00:32:42.880 And he said, uh, uh, why don't you come by tomorrow, you know, by the dumpster where I live and, uh, we'll go over to the mission.
00:32:52.240 Have some coffee.
00:32:53.500 So I went by the next morning and, um, and picked him up and we ended up going to, um, to what was called the Cactus Flower Cafe in Fort Worth and had breakfast that morning.
00:33:06.100 What's his story?
00:33:07.620 He was a...
00:33:09.240 His story is a very tragic story, but, um, his story is he was born on a plantation in Louisiana in 1937.
00:33:20.380 His mother was only 13 years old at the time and was not married and she gave him up to the custody of his grandmother who was, uh, the daughter of a freed slave who lived in, still in the slave cabin with, uh, a shotgun slave cabin on a plantation with no running water, no electricity or anything like that.
00:33:42.100 So his grandmother was raising him and a cousin.
00:33:46.160 He, uh, he watched his grandmother burn up in a fire when he was about seven years old and he tried desperately to save her.
00:33:53.460 He went back and forth into the house of the fire to save her, but she burned up and his cousin burned up in the fire as well.
00:33:59.580 And he went to live with his father, um, they found his father who was on another plantation.
00:34:05.980 And then a few weeks after he moved in with his father, his father was stabbed to death in a fight that Denver witnessed.
00:34:13.460 And so then he went to live with an uncle and, uh, who was a sharecropper and plowing behind mules.
00:34:19.820 So Denver was about seven years old and his job was rolling cigarettes for his, uh, for his uncle.
00:34:26.880 And, uh, but after, uh, a year of doing that, his uncle died of a heart attack plowing behind the mules.
00:34:34.220 Jeez.
00:34:35.220 So he went to then live with a step sister of his, one of his daddy's, uh, uh, uh, other half sister of his, as he found out on another plantation.
00:34:46.120 And, uh, and at 16 years old is an innocent young, 16 year old sharecropper is what he was.
00:34:54.040 He was a virtual slave.
00:34:55.360 Actually, uh, he was roped and dragged by the Ku Klux Klan behind horses for helping a white woman change a flat tire on the plantation.
00:35:04.020 And that day they, the Klan made him promise that he would never again speak to a white lady.
00:35:09.700 And he made his own promise that day. 0.90
00:35:12.160 He would never again trust any white person. 0.89
00:35:14.780 And he had kept that promise for all those years until I met him when he was 64 years old, living by a dumpster. 0.93
00:35:22.000 Wow.
00:35:22.440 On the streets of Fort Worth, Texas.
00:35:24.120 So he, when he moved to Fort Worth, um, he came, uh, he was actually going to California, if I'm not mistaken.
00:35:32.360 Well, he was, he, he hopped, he went into the man's store there.
00:35:38.120 The, you know, he got no money really.
00:35:39.900 He got credited a man's store for working on the plantation and, and the work was, was falling off because of all the machinery that was now being used on the plantation.
00:35:51.080 There was less work to be done.
00:35:52.560 So he was not able to pay his bill at the store.
00:35:55.580 He owed $35 to the man, uh, for the groceries that he had acquired over that year.
00:36:01.880 And so the man cut his credit off.
00:36:05.000 So he walked out of the store and saw a freight train standing there.
00:36:09.780 And there was a hobo standing by the train. 1.00
00:36:12.240 And he asked Denver, ask him, where are you going?
00:36:14.420 He said, well, I'm going to California.
00:36:16.720 And so Denver thought, well, I'm just going to get on and go.
00:36:19.840 He had no family or anything.
00:36:21.480 So it just, he just got on the freight train and first place it stopped was Fort Worth, Texas.
00:36:26.400 And he thought it was California.
00:36:28.420 So he gets off the freight train and, uh, starts wandering around and ends up, you know, getting a meal at the mission.
00:36:35.560 And he only has the clothes on his back.
00:36:38.340 He can't read.
00:36:39.140 He can't write.
00:36:39.980 That's right.
00:36:40.580 Um, he has no money.
00:36:42.220 That's right.
00:36:42.860 He can't get a job because he can't read or write.
00:36:45.140 That's right.
00:36:46.260 He had never been given the opportunity to go to school.
00:36:48.560 You see on the plantation, there was not a black or colored school, they called it.
00:36:53.720 But, uh, so all the white kids were, uh, while they were in class, you know, he was working the cotton fields. 0.92
00:36:59.040 He started working at seven years old in the cotton fields.
00:37:02.200 Nobody told him that there was a school for him.
00:37:04.640 Well, no, there was not.
00:37:06.080 There was not a school for him.
00:37:07.060 Not a school for him.
00:37:07.800 Okay.
00:37:08.880 Um, and so what does he do?
00:37:10.880 What year is that when he first arrives here?
00:37:13.020 When he first arrived, uh, it was about 1957.
00:37:18.780 57.
00:37:19.520 He escaped the plantation basically when he was 20 years old.
00:37:22.560 And when you meet him.
00:37:24.280 When I meet him.
00:37:25.800 It is 19.
00:37:27.340 Well, yes, he, he had, he had another period here in his life.
00:37:31.300 Uh, I met him in 1998.
00:37:34.340 Okay.
00:37:34.880 But in 57, when he first arrived at 58, something like that, he, you know, he said, uh, Mr.
00:37:41.180 Ron, I've lived my whole life, not knowing what day it was, what time it was or, or anything
00:37:46.060 else.
00:37:46.440 He said, and all of a sudden, you know, I've, I've had, uh, lived my whole life with no place
00:37:51.300 to be in plenty of time to get there.
00:37:52.800 And now you tell me I got to be somewhere on time.
00:37:54.860 I don't even know what time is on watch.
00:37:56.560 Don't know how to tell time.
00:37:57.960 But, uh, he gets in a shootout in Fort Worth and some guy pulled a gun on him and tried to
00:38:04.500 rob him of his shoes.
00:38:07.140 The first night he was on the streets or first week he was on the streets.
00:38:10.680 And he turned the gun around and shot the guy.
00:38:13.120 He, Denver shot himself first in the leg and then turned around and shot the guy.
00:38:17.000 So he went and hopped a freight train that night and ended up in California.
00:38:22.020 So he spent a few years in California and that's, then he came back.
00:38:26.220 Well, he ended up and then ended up in prison in Angola state penetrator in Louisiana.
00:38:31.240 He served 10 years there for attempted armed robbery of, uh, of a city bus with a gun that
00:38:36.220 didn't work.
00:38:36.780 It was a rusted gun that had no even a barrel on it.
00:38:40.600 And, uh, he spent 10 years in Angola state penitentiary and he was released from that
00:38:45.200 penitentiary in 1979.
00:38:46.980 And that's when he ended up going on the streets of Fort Worth.
00:38:50.600 And then it was 25 years later that I found him on the streets.
00:38:54.100 I find it fascinating that the first night he's in Fort Worth, somebody steals his shoes.
00:39:00.000 And the first time you meet him, he's talking about somebody stealing his shoes.
00:39:04.020 That's right.
00:39:04.740 Well, when you only have one pair of shoes.
00:39:06.440 Yeah, that's a big deal.
00:39:07.400 Yeah.
00:39:07.880 Okay.
00:39:08.300 So you, you meet him.
00:39:12.880 What, what happens to you two?
00:39:16.540 Where, where are you?
00:39:18.100 Are you, you're not fast buddies.
00:39:21.340 Oh, not at all.
00:39:22.480 In fact, uh, he asked me on that morning at breakfast, he says, what is it you want from
00:39:27.580 me? 0.95
00:39:27.840 He said, man, I've had no peace in my life since you and your skinny little wife showed 0.83
00:39:32.340 up on the streets of Fort Worth.
00:39:34.460 And I said, Hey man, I just want to be your friend.
00:39:36.760 Well, that was actually a lie.
00:39:38.020 I didn't want to be his friend.
00:39:39.080 My wife wanted me to be his friend, but I told him, I just want to be your friend.
00:39:42.900 And he said, you want to be my friend?
00:39:45.440 And he had this incredulous look on his face for good reason.
00:39:48.780 And I said, yeah, that's all.
00:39:50.160 I just straight up.
00:39:50.860 I just want to be your friend.
00:39:51.880 He said, man, I'm going to have to think about that.
00:39:54.020 And I thought to myself, Hey buddy, you just looked a gift horse in the mouth.
00:39:57.400 You don't know who you are talking to.
00:39:58.940 I am a millionaire and I can do anything for you.
00:40:02.660 You are the man of my wife's dream.
00:40:05.100 And if she wants you to have new clothes, I can do that.
00:40:07.880 A car.
00:40:08.700 I can do that.
00:40:09.480 An apartment.
00:40:09.960 I can even buy you a house, anything that she wants you to have.
00:40:14.000 I'm going to get for you because I owe this to her.
00:40:17.180 And I'm going to do it for her.
00:40:19.020 So I said, you know, I was so arrogant.
00:40:21.460 I didn't think this man had one thing to offer me in a friendship.
00:40:26.540 And so it was about a week or so later, I saw him taking trash out of the dumpster and
00:40:31.240 I pull up and I said, Hey, you want to go get some coffee?
00:40:33.060 And he said, yeah, I guess so.
00:40:34.180 So he gets in my car and we go to Starbucks.
00:40:36.180 We're sitting there and he thinks, he says, I've been thinking a lot about what you asked
00:40:40.120 me.
00:40:40.300 And I said, what did I ask you that required any thought?
00:40:42.360 And he said, you asked me if I'd be your friend.
00:40:44.940 And I said, well, I sure do.
00:40:46.500 So what do you think?
00:40:48.020 He said, well, there's something I heard about white folks.
00:40:50.480 It really bothers me.
00:40:51.400 And it's got to do with fishing.
00:40:52.780 And I said, well, Denver, I'm not a fisherman.
00:40:54.960 I'm a cowboy and an art dealer.
00:40:56.560 And I said, I know a little bit about those things, but I don't even own a rod and reel
00:40:59.900 or a tackle box.
00:41:01.200 And he said, but I bet you can answer the question.
00:41:03.260 I said, well, okay, then ask.
00:41:04.560 He said, okay.
00:41:05.780 He said, I heard when white folks go fishing, they do this thing called catch and release. 0.97
00:41:12.420 I said, Denver, of course they do, because it's a sport.
00:41:16.080 Don't you get it?
00:41:16.860 And he said, no, sir, I don't get that.
00:41:18.560 Because back on the plantation where I grew up, we'd go out in the morning, we'd dig us
00:41:22.180 a can full of worms.
00:41:23.300 We'd cut us a cane pole.
00:41:24.760 We'd sit on the riverbank all day.
00:41:26.640 And when we finally got something on our line, we were really proud of what we caught.
00:41:30.540 And he said, we'd take it back and we'd share it with all the folk.
00:41:33.580 He said, so it occurred to me, if you just a white man fishing for a friend, and you
00:41:41.140 going to catch and release, I ain't got no desire to be your friend.
00:41:46.160 Wow, this guy is deep.
00:41:47.860 And he said, but if you fishing for a real friend, then you got one for life.
00:41:52.540 And my mind flashed back to Debbie's dream of this poor man who was wise, because what
00:41:58.940 he spoke to me at that moment was the wisest thing I had ever heard on friendship.
00:42:06.700 And I knew at that moment, if I ever heard from God in my life, it was at that moment
00:42:11.240 when I knew I had to take a chance and be his friend.
00:42:14.240 I couldn't go tell Debbie of this meeting and tell her that I had told him not to be,
00:42:19.680 I was not going to be his friend.
00:42:20.740 But I have to say that that was the best decision I ever made in my life.
00:42:26.980 As an art dealer, God, all of a sudden, just repainted the canvas of my life and rewrote
00:42:32.560 my life story.
00:42:33.540 You know, we all have these moments in life where you face something that will be life
00:42:38.840 changing for you.
00:42:39.820 And those decisions you make at that moment will forever alter your life.
00:42:43.860 And that moment, that catch and release meeting forever has altered my life.
00:42:48.980 Did that humble you at that moment?
00:42:50.740 Oh, Lynn, I enrolled in what I call Denver University the next morning.
00:42:56.900 I went by his dumpster because I was so enamored with this man and so fascinated with his wisdom
00:43:06.200 that I went the next morning and sat on the curb next to him on a busy Lancaster Street
00:43:12.860 and very busy in the most dangerous neighborhood of Fort Worth.
00:43:17.380 I sat there on the curb with him by his dumpster, stinking dumpster, and began asking him.
00:43:25.080 And he looked and he had this piercing look, laser beam lock on my eyes.
00:43:29.900 It was scaring me.
00:43:31.140 I was, my heart was racing.
00:43:32.360 So I just decided to break the ice and I said, hey, man, tell me what's it like to be homeless?
00:43:38.200 I must have caught him off guard because he kind of looked at me and he said, well, I don't
00:43:43.260 know.
00:43:43.440 I said, well, why don't you tell me?
00:43:45.360 I said, hey, I've never been homeless.
00:43:47.880 I mean, I don't know what it's like.
00:43:50.400 He said, well, let me tell you something, Mr. Ronnie Ray.
00:43:55.040 Whether we's rich or whether we's poor or whether we is something in between, he said,
00:44:01.740 this earth ain't no final resting place.
00:44:04.800 And he said, so in a way, we all homeless, just working our way home.
00:44:11.680 So this is the title of my new book, Working Our Way Home.
00:44:31.740 How did this guy, how did he have such peace and wisdom and he was the same guy who walked 0.99
00:44:45.980 into the shelter screaming, I'll kill you? 0.99
00:44:50.080 What is that? 1.00
00:44:52.480 Where was that?
00:44:53.240 That was his form of protection.
00:44:54.720 You know, he acted angry and he would say, everybody that smiles at you ain't your friend
00:45:05.620 and everybody that screams at you ain't your enemy.
00:45:09.800 But he said, you know, you just got to discern.
00:45:13.260 He said, Miss Debbie could see through all of that.
00:45:15.760 She could see through my confusion and anger.
00:45:18.720 She had Superman's eyes and she could see right straight to my heart.
00:45:22.720 And he said that that throwed me off.
00:45:26.320 And he said, so it was, but he had no friends, but he would spend every night.
00:45:35.060 Though his only friend was God.
00:45:37.760 And he talked to God like he knew him personally.
00:45:41.800 And he would, he did.
00:45:42.500 And he would, he would talk to him in conversations and have long conversations with him.
00:45:48.520 Um, and, um, so that's where he gleaned these things.
00:45:54.120 Uh, and, and he didn't, he didn't have any conversations except in anger and in a protective
00:46:00.080 manner with anybody.
00:46:02.020 But, uh, so that was, it was, uh, you know, one of the first few times I'm sitting at Denver
00:46:09.660 university there on the curb.
00:46:11.620 And, uh, I was starting to ask him questions about people in judgment.
00:46:17.720 And, uh, he looked at me and he said, Mr. Ron, look down the end of the street there.
00:46:21.080 What do you see?
00:46:22.440 How do you mean, wait, wait, how do you mean in judgment?
00:46:24.540 You're asking questions in judgment.
00:46:26.000 Well, I would say, what are they on?
00:46:28.980 You know, I'd say, what are they on?
00:46:30.460 Or, you know, I, they'd come by and hit me up for a dollar and I said, I'm not going to
00:46:33.860 give them a dollar.
00:46:34.580 They're already too drunk or too high or something like that.
00:46:37.280 And, uh, so he looked down, he said, Mr. Ron, look down at the end of the street.
00:46:45.760 What do you see down there?
00:46:47.720 I said, well, you're talking about way down at the end of the street.
00:46:50.540 He said, yeah, I said, I see the courthouse.
00:46:52.300 He said, yes, sir.
00:46:53.100 Let me tell you something, Mr. Ron, that courthouse is full of judges and God ain't looking for no
00:46:58.700 more of them.
00:46:59.580 He said, God is looking for servants.
00:47:01.700 He said, if you want to come down here and spend time on me or with me on these streets,
00:47:07.360 you need to come and leave your judge's robe back in your closet and you come as a servant 0.98
00:47:13.300 and you and I are going to be getting along just fine, but you ain't going to come down
00:47:16.940 here and be judging my people here on the streets.
00:47:19.880 Jeez.
00:47:21.640 All right.
00:47:23.040 So this proceeds for a while.
00:47:25.680 Your wife gets sick.
00:47:27.220 She gets cancer.
00:47:28.200 She does.
00:47:28.680 Tell me.
00:47:30.040 But he is the one that prophesied that or predicted it.
00:47:34.500 Well, a few, maybe five months into my Denver University education program, I was nearing a
00:47:41.060 PhD at the time because I was getting so wise and his wisdom was just coming in bucket loads.
00:47:47.980 So one day we're sitting having lunch and he looks very concerned that day.
00:47:54.940 And my life lesson for that day was, if the devil ain't messing with you, he's already
00:48:01.220 got you.
00:48:03.080 So after he began instructing me on that, he told me, he said, Mr. Ron, what Miss Debbie
00:48:09.740 is doing for the homeless, she has become precious to God.
00:48:14.340 He said, when you become precious to God, you become important to Satan.
00:48:18.400 He says, so watch your backside.
00:48:20.240 Something bad getting ready to happen to Miss Debbie.
00:48:24.080 And three days later, out of nowhere, she was diagnosed with cancer.
00:48:28.980 And for the next 19 months, when we fought the battle of all battles, Denver is the one
00:48:38.040 that God chose to encourage us the most during those 19 months.
00:48:42.000 And the man that I once thought had nothing to offer me in a friendship for 19 months, every
00:48:50.600 day he would show up on our front door, knocking on it at sunrise or right after that, and bring
00:48:56.220 us a fresh, relevant message that he had heard from God in the night.
00:49:00.780 And he was never, ever wrong.
00:49:04.020 And I just marveled at how God chose the most, the poorest, most dangerous man on the streets
00:49:13.200 of Fort Worth to be the one that encouraged us the most during the darkest days of our
00:49:18.380 lives.
00:49:19.660 It's the humble and the meek.
00:49:23.740 Isn't that just like God?
00:49:25.320 Yeah.
00:49:26.100 It's the humble and the meek inheriting the earth.
00:49:29.000 And, um, and on the last day of her life, he came to tell me that he was talking to God
00:49:36.380 in the night.
00:49:37.640 And he said, he said, God told me to come tell Miss Debbie to lay down her torch.
00:49:43.480 And he said, so I need to go in and talk to Miss Debbie. 0.82
00:49:46.320 And I'd like to be that in private, if you don't mind.
00:49:49.480 So he went in, uh, she was lying in bed and he kneeled beside her on the bed.
00:49:55.680 And he said, Miss Debbie, he said, I was talking to God last night.
00:49:59.000 And he said, the only reason you've been holding on this long, Miss Debbie, is because he told
00:50:03.560 me, because you didn't know who's going to take care of the homeless when, when you pass.
00:50:08.660 He said, but God told me, he said, Denver, you go tell Miss Debbie to lay down her torch 0.74
00:50:12.980 and you pick it up, Denver, and you carry it the rest of your life for her.
00:50:17.880 He said, so that's what I'm going to do, Miss Debbie.
00:50:20.720 And he said, and I'm going to be here till God takes me and I'll see you on the other side.
00:50:25.440 It won't be long.
00:50:26.180 And the man who had been made promise by the, uh, Ku Klux Klan never again to speak to a
00:50:33.520 white woman, kneeled beside her bed and gave her a kiss on the forehead and said, I'm going 1.00
00:50:38.860 to see you on the other side.
00:50:41.320 And when he left her room, he came out, he said, don't worry, Mr. Ron, nothing ever ends.
00:50:46.000 There's something new.
00:50:46.740 Don't begin.
00:50:47.320 And her final words to me were, Ron, please don't give up on Denver.
00:50:52.760 God is going to bless your friendship in a way that you can never imagine.
00:50:58.740 And, uh, a few hours later, God took her to heaven.
00:51:02.580 Three days later, Denver stood up and preached her funeral.
00:51:06.580 And he shared a message that all of these years of 25 years on the streets, how a lot of people
00:51:12.780 had given him a dollar bill and told him Jesus loved him and all these kinds of things.
00:51:18.000 But, you know, no one had ever stopped to find out his name and see behind the anger and confusion.
00:51:23.860 He said it was like an old song that they used to sing back on the plantation when nothing else
00:51:29.920 could help.
00:51:30.460 He said, it was love that lifted me.
00:51:32.140 He said it was the love of Miss Debbie who said it was the, it was the love of Christ
00:51:36.340 and Miss Debbie that gave me hope.
00:51:39.200 And he said, and I'm here today to share that with you.
00:51:41.880 And Miss Debbie wanted me to share with you too, that she wanted to build a new homeless 0.98
00:51:46.180 mission in Fort Worth, Texas.
00:51:48.220 And I know there's a lot of you skillionaires sitting out there, a lot of paper.
00:51:52.620 So she'd make her real happy if y'all build that new mission for her. 0.65
00:51:57.280 When he got through speaking, he got a standing ovation for more than a thousand
00:52:02.100 people at a funeral.
00:52:04.140 And by noon the next day, more than $500,000 came in from the people at the funeral.
00:52:09.420 Within one year, five million.
00:52:11.000 Within three years, 15 million.
00:52:12.660 We built this finest homeless mission in America in downtown Fort Worth.
00:52:17.600 And that year that we finished this mission, Denver was honored as the philanthropist of the
00:52:23.580 year for the city of Fort Worth.
00:52:25.240 Unbelievable.
00:52:25.640 And as he stood to receive his award, he told the people, he said, a lot of y'all just thought 0.96
00:52:30.660 I was trash on y'all's streets.
00:52:33.120 He said, but did y'all know that God is into recycling business?
00:52:37.080 He's turning trash into treasure.
00:52:39.380 What a life.
00:52:55.560 What a blessing.
00:52:57.760 But your new book is about what everybody doesn't know.
00:53:03.260 So he, you two were roommates for 11 years.
00:53:06.620 That's right.
00:53:07.780 11 years.
00:53:08.980 That's right. 1.00
00:53:09.440 The man who said, I'm going to kill everybody. 1.00
00:53:11.520 Yes.
00:53:11.960 The man who had the exact opposite life.
00:53:15.140 That's right.
00:53:15.860 Who was, I'm guessing.
00:53:20.480 Did he, was he at a place before you all got together?
00:53:23.980 Was he at a place to where he was happy on the street?
00:53:27.620 Like, you know, he was happy.
00:53:30.300 He was, he was, this was his kingdom.
00:53:32.540 Right.
00:53:32.720 Okay.
00:53:33.020 He was the king of his kingdom and people would come by and they, they, they revered him and
00:53:38.840 feared him because he was the strongest.
00:53:41.400 He was the lion of the jungle.
00:53:42.960 So he was not wanting to leave his kingdom.
00:53:45.960 He was, he had become comfortable.
00:53:48.100 And you had become comfortable in your billionaire lifestyle.
00:53:51.740 Well, it wasn't quite that good, but, but yeah, it, I was very comfortable with,
00:53:57.620 in that, but.
00:53:58.800 And now you two are living together.
00:54:03.120 Well, truthfully, Debbie asked me, please do not give up on Denver.
00:54:08.680 But I did.
00:54:11.280 After she died, he and I went to the ranch and we, we buried her at our ranch.
00:54:17.100 She wanted to be buried like the paupers on the streets. 1.00
00:54:19.900 So she, we put her in a simple pine box, just dug a hole, a grave on the highest point
00:54:25.960 on our ranch overlooking the Brazos river.
00:54:27.980 I think this is going to only be probably done in Texas still.
00:54:30.580 It can only be done in Texas. 0.79
00:54:31.800 Well, we didn't ask for permission.
00:54:33.520 We asked for forgiveness.
00:54:35.020 Right.
00:54:35.320 And she's still there.
00:54:36.200 So, and so she's in heaven, but I mean, but, uh, so Denver and I buried her there and,
00:54:42.140 um, and we, um, I asked him to, to move in with me and he said, no.
00:54:48.700 And so I just wanted to get away.
00:54:53.420 So I took off and went to Italy for about five months where I began, uh, pursuing a career
00:54:59.100 as it's art.
00:54:59.940 I wanted, I wanted just to get away from all the, the pain, the anger and find a different
00:55:04.700 way to grieve than most people grieve.
00:55:06.600 So I went to Italy to grieve.
00:55:08.320 So I spent about four or five months in Italy, a painting and making sculpture and writing
00:55:13.460 and, uh, all of these things.
00:55:15.220 And then one day, um, this young Italian girl told me she was reading my manuscript of what
00:55:21.920 I was writing.
00:55:22.460 And she said, uh, I, she said, the real story you've left behind, this is not where you need
00:55:29.420 to be.
00:55:30.900 And so a couple of days later, I came back to Texas and went into the hobo jungle of Fort 0.95
00:55:38.980 Worth, Texas to find Denver and I found him and I asked him to move in with me.
00:55:44.240 And he said, no, he wouldn't do it.
00:55:46.100 But he, he said, I needed to do more important things for me to do.
00:55:49.260 And one was to repair my relationship with my father.
00:55:52.420 And he said, uh, you must do that before I'll even want to talk to you.
00:55:56.760 So I, I began repairing the relationship with my father.
00:56:00.400 And then we, uh, my, my children and I were living together.
00:56:05.080 Uh, they were all grown and out of college by then.
00:56:07.840 Um, so, um, we were sitting there one night and I'd been home about a month from Italy
00:56:13.880 and we're sitting there one night and I said, what would they, we were talking about, what
00:56:18.260 would mom want us to do about Denver?
00:56:21.380 Well, of course, mom would want him living with us.
00:56:23.580 And I said, I know I tried.
00:56:24.940 I asked him to move in with us.
00:56:26.020 He won't do it.
00:56:27.240 And so my son, Carson said, dad, I'll go get him.
00:56:31.360 This was 10 o'clock at night.
00:56:32.780 So Carson gets in his car and my son was about 22 at the time, you know, small kid, almost
00:56:42.540 he was just like five, eight, 120 pounds.
00:56:45.760 He drives in to the hobo jungle of Fort Worth, Texas and starts hollering, Denver, Denver. 0.97
00:56:52.580 And some, one of the, one of the homeless people, uh, in the jungle came up and said, Denver,
00:57:00.060 I don't know what you've done to, there's some bad white boy out there looking for you 0.99
00:57:03.780 and he ain't leaving without you.
00:57:05.580 And I don't know what you did to him, but he, he is, he's coming after you.
00:57:10.960 Denver said, I ain't done nothing to no white boys.
00:57:13.240 Who are you talking about?
00:57:14.160 And so, uh, Denver gets up and starts walking.
00:57:17.220 He hears Carson's, oh man.
00:57:18.900 He said, Mr. Carson, what are you doing here, man? 0.99
00:57:21.400 You get yourself killed down here.
00:57:23.460 And he said, no, my dad told me to come get you and not to come home without you.
00:57:27.000 He said, well, I'm going to go home with you just so you don't get killed here in the
00:57:29.980 jungle, but I ain't going to stay.
00:57:32.440 But he came in and he, of course, Carson brought him home.
00:57:35.620 It was about midnight and I was waiting up for him.
00:57:39.080 Um, and, uh, Denver came in and he had one just garbage bag that was just a small garbage
00:57:45.540 bag.
00:57:45.920 And he had another shirt and change of clothes and a toothbrush back in there.
00:57:50.180 And that was, that was about it.
00:57:51.920 And I looked at him and I said, Denver, you did the rest of the stuff out in Carson's car.
00:57:55.920 He said, Mr. Ron, this is all I got in the whole world.
00:57:59.880 I said, this, in this bag is everything you own in the whole world.
00:58:04.660 And you're 65 years old.
00:58:06.600 And he said, yes, uh, he said, but let me tell you something, Mr. Ron, and maybe one
00:58:12.120 day you'll realize this.
00:58:14.280 He said, you will know that you have something when you can finally thank God for nothing.
00:58:21.760 And then he'll give you everything.
00:58:31.120 Tell me what that means.
00:58:32.380 Well, that means that he knew in his life, he was content to be where God had him, but
00:58:41.680 God wasn't through with him yet.
00:58:43.480 And when he could thank God for his circumstances, even how poor they were, he could praise a God
00:58:51.220 that, uh, that is an almighty God.
00:58:55.040 And he could praise him for nothing because he had nothing.
00:58:59.060 And God gave him everything.
00:59:01.900 That was a miracle.
00:59:03.380 I witnessed the miracle of a homeless man known as suicide who did not read and write, become
00:59:11.780 a number one New York times bestselling author and stay on the list for three and a half years
00:59:17.580 selling 2 million books.
00:59:19.380 I witnessed a man who had never drawn a stick figure, been in an art museum or an art gallery,
00:59:27.060 become a successful artist and selling more than 500 paintings.
00:59:33.820 I witnessed a homeless man who was penniless when he moved in my home and had been living in cardboard
00:59:39.780 boxes and hobo jungles and, uh, dumpsters in Fort Worth, Texas, even in a grave.
00:59:46.400 He took up residence in a grave one time to get away from some of the confusion in the
00:59:51.840 inner city.
00:59:52.440 It was a freshly drugged grave in a cemetery.
00:59:55.280 I witnessed him become a millionaire at age 72 and then give it all away back to the homeless,
01:00:04.200 the poor.
01:00:05.040 I witnessed a man who for most of his life disliked, mistrusted whites become a symbol for racial
01:00:14.000 unity in America, spreading a message that it's not the color of our skin or the language
01:00:20.320 we speak that divides us as the condition of our hearts.
01:00:23.560 And I witnessed a man who for years sat in silence by this dumpster, speaking to no one,
01:00:30.340 become a motivational speaker and get paid $10,000 for giving speeches and filling events
01:00:37.260 like the Georgia World Congress Center in Atlanta, packing it out.
01:00:41.460 Uh, I witnessed a man who for, as a child was taught that the white house was only for white
01:00:49.760 people.
01:00:51.080 I witnessed him become, uh, be honored by the Bush family at the white house.
01:00:59.920 Uh, and at a private luncheon, uh, when we were speaking for Barbara Bush's foundation on
01:01:07.600 literacy in Washington, DC, they had us and three other authors for a private, private
01:01:13.620 luncheon in the white house.
01:01:15.620 And, uh, but as we were leaving the white house that day, Denver starts laughing hysterically
01:01:22.180 and he had had some embarrassing moments in there.
01:01:24.560 It's right about him in our book, working our way home.
01:01:27.940 But, um, as we were leaving the white house that day, he starts laughing hysterically.
01:01:32.280 I said, what's so funny, Denver?
01:01:33.880 You just embarrassed the tar out of me there at the lunch table with the Bush family.
01:01:38.800 And, uh, he said, well, think about this, Mr. Ron, I done gone from living in the bushes
01:01:43.440 to eating with the bushes.
01:01:44.700 He said, God bless America.
01:01:46.040 This is a great country.
01:01:48.020 And I said, you are right, Denver.
01:01:49.940 God bless America.
01:01:50.880 This is a great country.
01:01:52.020 I said, the proudest moment of my life.
01:01:53.680 I saw the president of the United States of America walk up to Denver Moore in his office
01:02:01.920 and say, Denver Moore, what an honor to meet you, sir.
01:02:06.820 And I thought, wow, can you believe that the president of the United States knows the name
01:02:12.240 of what was the most dangerous, craziest, homeless addict on the streets of Fort Worth,
01:02:17.880 Texas, and God has transformed that trash into a national treasure now and using him to give
01:02:25.100 homelessness a new face so that people, when they see the homeless now, they will look at
01:02:30.900 them and think, what, not what's going to happen to me if I stop to help, but look at
01:02:35.920 them and think, what will happen to them if I don't?
01:02:39.140 Would that be a Denver sitting there that maybe will impact our lives and our nation?
01:02:44.120 And I can tell you, just as we are now at this Christmas season, and we are celebrating
01:02:52.220 and worshiping the most famous homeless family in the history of the world that impacted the
01:02:58.600 world, because Mary and Joseph were homeless that night.
01:03:04.260 They might have not been penniless.
01:03:05.800 In fact, homelessness is not about running out of money.
01:03:09.060 Homelessness is about running out of relationships.
01:03:11.920 Yeah.
01:03:14.120 When you've lost all hope, when you have lost your friends and your family, you might still
01:03:20.800 have some money, but without friends and family, you become homeless.
01:03:28.220 How did he die?
01:03:31.080 Denver's lungs gave out from smoking.
01:03:34.080 He had COPD.
01:03:36.520 Were you with him?
01:03:37.720 He was supposed to be with me at the ranch, and that day, he said he wasn't feeling like
01:03:44.720 being at the ranch, because he was not feeling well.
01:03:48.360 And we had been in and out of the hospitals so many, many times, back and forth to hospitals,
01:03:53.140 which are some of the craziest stories, how he would run away from the hospitals and what
01:03:58.820 he called burn off.
01:03:59.880 I write about that in our new book, Working Our Way Home.
01:04:03.260 It's the craziest stories that you will ever hear.
01:04:05.860 They're hilarious, actually.
01:04:08.240 But I went by to pick him up, and he said, no, I can't go today.
01:04:14.100 He'd lived with me.
01:04:15.140 He had just moved out and moved into a motel where he got a smoking sweep because he had
01:04:20.200 set my house on fire twice by falling asleep and smoking in bed.
01:04:23.560 And I said, Denver, you either quit smoking in the house or you've got to go get a place
01:04:29.040 to sleep.
01:04:29.720 Well, so he found a motel that would rent him a smoking suite so he could sleep and smoke.
01:04:38.620 And then he spent all day at my house because his art studio was there, and he's got all
01:04:43.020 of his meals at our house.
01:04:45.100 So it was not as if we weren't living together.
01:04:47.080 He just slept somewhere else.
01:04:48.680 So that morning, I went by to pick him up, to take him to the ranch.
01:04:51.860 And he said, no, I don't feel like going today.
01:04:54.640 And that night, they found him in his room.
01:04:58.860 He had died peacefully, and just his lungs just stopped.
01:05:07.540 How lucky are you?
01:05:10.780 Well, you know, I'd say I'm blessed.
01:05:13.940 Yeah.
01:05:14.820 I'm blessed.
01:05:16.440 I'd say that...
01:05:17.520 Why did you get that education?
01:05:18.660 Why did you get that?
01:05:20.020 I don't know.
01:05:20.840 You know, I'd just say that I was a willing participant in something that I fought, but
01:05:32.660 somebody knew it was going to be the best thing for me.
01:05:35.620 And I think God just kept steering me in that direction.
01:05:39.600 Even though I fought it all the way, I finally gave into it because I started seeing lives
01:05:45.020 changed.
01:05:46.140 I love a great success story.
01:05:48.380 I've seen so many of them.
01:05:49.820 And there's so many people in this homeless world that want out.
01:05:53.280 I mean, there's a good number of people in the homeless world that don't want to break
01:05:57.000 through there.
01:05:57.860 And there's a lot of mental issues there.
01:06:00.840 But there are some really great people that want to escape it.
01:06:05.480 And they just need a leg up. 1.00
01:06:07.580 You know, not a handout.
01:06:08.720 They need a leg up. 1.00
01:06:09.640 Denver told me one day when I was first sitting with him on the curb.
01:06:12.880 And he asked me if I was a Christian.
01:06:16.200 And I said, yeah.
01:06:17.200 And I said, why do you think I'm down here trying to help?
01:06:21.240 And he looked at me and he said, trying to help?
01:06:24.500 He said, you mean to tell me that you think if you scoop some spaghetti on a metal plate,
01:06:29.960 you helping somebody?
01:06:31.140 No.
01:06:31.280 He said, we can feed ourselves.
01:06:32.920 We're perfectly capable of putting that spaghetti on the plate ourselves.
01:06:36.200 And he said, do you think giving somebody a dollar bill going to change their life?
01:06:40.440 No, that ain't going to change their life.
01:06:41.980 Let me tell you what will change their life, Mr. Ron, is if you crawl down in the ditch
01:06:46.700 with them and you stay there long enough till they're strong enough to crawl out on your
01:06:51.500 back, then you help somebody.
01:06:53.520 That'll be life changing.
01:06:54.720 And that's when you help somebody.
01:06:56.220 Other than that, you're blessing them.
01:06:58.100 And we like blessings.
01:06:59.860 But you ain't helping nobody but yourself.
01:07:01.880 Feel better about yourself because you probably ain't done nothing for nobody but yourself.
01:07:05.840 in a long, long time.
01:07:08.140 And so here you are trying to make yourself feel better.
01:07:11.060 But, you know, if you want to help somebody, wow, you know how to do it now.
01:07:17.400 So.
01:07:19.980 I have a feeling that's what the judgment's going to be like.
01:07:24.240 It's just going to be super crystal clear.
01:07:26.760 You know what I mean?
01:07:27.860 He wasn't saying that condemning.
01:07:30.740 He was just speaking the truth, it seems.
01:07:33.320 Yes.
01:07:33.660 And you're like, you must have felt like that big.
01:07:37.660 Oh, yeah.
01:07:38.200 He told me, he said, you know, you never know whose eyes God is watching you out of.
01:07:42.300 And it ain't going to be your preacher or your Sunday school teacher.
01:07:45.260 He said, it might be a fellow that looks like me.
01:07:47.880 Now, he said, it ain't me.
01:07:49.100 But it might be a fellow that looks just like me.
01:07:51.320 God's checking you out to see what kind of person you really are.
01:07:54.820 What a pleasure talking to you.
01:07:58.880 He said, sometimes you successful folks, y'all rise up so high trying to get y'all self some more stuff.
01:08:05.460 They're on y'all's way up to the top.
01:08:07.340 You don't even take time to get to know about God.
01:08:10.440 But let me tell you something, Mr. Ron Hall.
01:08:13.160 You can never stoop too low down here on the streets to help somebody and have God miss knowing about you.
01:08:19.140 He was a wise man.
01:08:24.760 Debbie's dream was real.
01:08:26.780 And, you know, I say that, you know, although I became wealthy as an art dealer, which I'm no longer wealthy.
01:08:36.160 We've taken care of that.
01:08:38.700 But he, Denver, made my life rich.
01:08:43.220 The first book, the same kind of different as me, the new book that talks about what happened after Miss Debbie went home, is called Working Our Way Home by Ron Hall.
01:08:59.560 Thank you, Ron.
01:09:00.320 Just a reminder, I'd love you to rate and subscribe to the podcast and pass this on to a friend so it can be discovered by other people.
01:09:30.320 Thank you.