Ep 161 ｜ How Christianity Was INFILTRATED by Woke Politics ｜ Voddie Baucham ｜ The Glenn Beck Podcast
Episode Stats
Length
1 hour and 18 minutes
Words per Minute
146.61903
Summary
Dr. Vicky Bachmanje Sr. is a former pastor, author, academic, author and current dean of theology at Afrikan Christian University in Zambia. He is a spiritual leader, a community leader, an academic, a bible expert, and strives to preserve the unity of the spirit through the bond of peace. He s written books and articles detailing the complicated realities of a world that is increasingly dangerous for christians.
Transcript
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well their hatred is nothing new the elites have always hated despised really christianity
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all through the gospels jesus jesus narrowly escapes being lynched as the pharisees the elites
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chased him he told them he didn't come to call the righteous he came to call the sinners the
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blind the disabled the poor the possessed now anyone who actually hates christianity
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actually really i think hates them as well the blind the disabled the poor and the oppressed
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um they seem to enslave them give them anyway if you want proof look at how they attack anyone who
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disagrees with the elites chance of black lives matter well that evaporates once a black person
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tells the world that they're a republican right believe all women unless they're conservative
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everything they claim everything they say oh we believe in this so much is a distraction
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so that you won't notice what they're really up to but as paul writes in romans profess a professing to
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be wise they became fools doesn't it seem like our experts are foolish right now today's guest knows
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what they're really up to he's a former pastor pastor he is a author a professor and current dean
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of theology at african christian university in zambia i've been waiting to meet this guy for a couple of
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years now he happens to be in the states for a few days and he stopped in he's a spiritual man
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a community leader an academic a bible expert and a man who strives to preserve the unity of the spirit
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through the bond of peace although he carries a pretty big stick as well he's written books and
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articles detailing the complicated realities of a world that is increasingly dangerous for christians
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today on the glenn beck podcast i am excited to introduce you to dr votie bachman jr before we get
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to uh votie i want to talk to you a little bit about relief factor there is a giant pain in my
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that i can't seem to get rid of and even relief factor doesn't help i'm thinking november 8th might
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help a lot but if that's not the pain you're experiencing and you have uh pain every day and
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you just can't you've tried everything please would you do me a favor and try relief factor i hate to i hate
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to paint this into such a a corner of being you know your last attempt for anything but those are
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the testimonials i see the people who take the time to write because it's been a miracle in their life
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it's been a miracle in my life uh i'm out of pain i can use my hands it's unbelievable for me but this is
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i find myself um thinking thoughts i've never thought before yeah um and wondering
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where are we in time where where are we as a people as a nation yeah you know i i tell you one
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thing we're in trouble i got that i know that i know that we're in trouble i know that um there are
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things happening in the midst of our society that you know if you look at romans chapter one
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or if you look at history these are the kind of things that happen um toward the end of a of a
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society's um lifespan if you will and uh i i think unless things change um dramatically
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that what we're going to see is going to be catastrophic um i mean i i think on the other
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hand that there are some unique aspects of american culture that uh that kind of give us
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a reprieve i think you know our federalist system the fact that there are 50 states yeah the fact
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and i think covid showed us that right there wasn't there wasn't one response to covid in america
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right yeah not everybody had the same experience i think um you know we we we see an end to roe v
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wade and now what happens things go to the states and these different states look very different in
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their response so i think because of that you know but that doesn't give us a rip i i i'm
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i will be really truly heartened um that it's not a delay tactic some things like that nice delays
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yeah um buy us more time yeah but until we i mean i hate to sound like a preacher but until we
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recognize crap we have gone way astray way astray i can't hear sheep there's no sheep for miles around
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we've really gone astray yeah yeah and we then ask for forgiveness yeah he his protection
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is it has to come off of us yeah looking at the things that are happening in our society but glenn
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i would say it already has i would say that's why we're seeing what we're seeing yeah but i don't
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think this is judgment i'm not sure if he's fully withdrawn yeah we're not we're at the beginning i
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think yeah this is we're at the beginning of that yeah this is we this is judgment we're experiencing
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judgment and when you experience judgment you're right the response is to repent and uh you know
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i'm afraid that that we're not seeing much of that we're not seeing any humility we're not seeing
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humility we're not seeing repentance we're not seeing brokenness um we will yeah i think of yoda
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you will um i was well let me let me let me go here
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i feel like we're battling evil we are not i keep saying on the air it's not republicans versus democrats
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it's not it is elites versus the people but it's not really even that it is evil against good
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can you give can you flesh that out yeah i mean i think the the apostle paul in second
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corinthians chapter 10 he says though we walk in the flesh we are not waging war according to the
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flesh and i think it's important for us to keep that in mind that that we are battling um what he
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talks about in ephesians chapter 2 is the prince of the power of the air right that spirit that is now
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at work in the sons of disobedience this is a spiritual battle it's always been a spiritual
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battle and i and i think that that we're seeing that more clearly you know go back to roe v wade i
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talked about you know that earlier what's interesting about that is you know all of a sudden when that
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happened the gloves came off oh yeah you know and people were just essentially saying i can't believe
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we're not going to be allowed to kill babies anymore i know you know i know i mean no i think it's been
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in some ways it's been a real blessing you know if donald trump would have won again i don't know if all of
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this would have been fully seen you know what i mean but now that things uh now the things are
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progressing as quickly as they are you're hearing things like yeah we should let the baby die if we
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wanted to abort yeah then if he's born alive then he should die crazy things that we all knew that men
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can have a baby yeah that we know these things aren't true that pedophilia is somehow okay because
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we're minor attracted persons right yeah i mean and i i feel like saying look we all knew we all knew
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10 years ago that stuff's crazy if i would have said it that you're going to be arguing for it
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you would have called me insane and now you're arguing i didn't change what happened to you yeah
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yeah and and i think it's happening in many areas across the board and unfortunately what happens is
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we get numb to it you know it's kind of like the the frog in the kettle right yeah we get numb to it
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right and for example we're not talking about same-sex marriage anymore right but i mean we
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we were right but now you know because of all of these other things i said down the road i said on
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the air when we were debating sex same-sex marriage to me as a more of a rights person i don't what do
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you do in your life is your do not force my church to do what you want and i won't force your church to
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do what you want you know i mean or what i want um uh but i said this opens up the door you can't say
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man and a woman and then not say man woman woman or woman woman woman right you you everything is
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going to change and you will see pedophilia will start to be normalized and they said how dare you
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ever say that right right that no and then we say no that's not what we're arguing yes yes that's you
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know that that whole slippery slope argument that's not what we're arguing for we're just arguing for
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this not that but the implications are clear and there was a case in new york recently um where i i think
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there were there was a polyamorous triad three guys right three guys polyamorous triad yeah you know
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the case and and the judge is essentially pointing to the dissent in obergefeld and saying the dissent
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is right right when you get rid of the male female requirement the numerosity requirement makes no
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sense yep so essentially they're saying that slippery slope that you were arguing that we said was an
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overreaction yeah it wasn't really an overreaction exactly right now and for a long time in this
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movement people have been trying to get rid of age of consent laws so we get rid of age of consent laws
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we get rid of the numerosity requirement and all of a sudden um marriage means absolutely nothing
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and the foundation of civilization right um is gone yeah i mean you know when you look at
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there's a lot of things you can look at and say nah that's evil i can see how you get there or
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you know maybe not or whatever but the things that are happening with children that is the one thing
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you know christ wasn't really a fire and brimstone kind of guy but it went when he came to harming his
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little ones better to have a millstone tied around your neck and be thrown into the deepest part of the
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sea right so how is it so many people are just duped well but listen okay we talk about the the whole
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idea of the millstone but don't forget sodom and gomorrah right so we we've done this before we've come
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up to an issue that from a biblical perspective and from an historical perspective was something that
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was absolutely unthinkable right and and and we cross that line and now you know as we sit here
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we're having a conversation about another line that we think should never even be approached let alone
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crossed but what history tells us is it's only a matter of time before we get to that one
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is it exciting to live at this time or is it what is it
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my father died and i thought you know he he was too young to serve in world war ii yeah um he tried
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to join the marines in korea but he had flat feet so he couldn't go um you know civil rights thing but
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he lived up in seattle and yeah you know uh he really didn't have any time where he was pushed up
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against the wall by society or anything you know and i don't know if you can ever really truly be who
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you are meant to be until there's a force that is pushing against you yeah so is it a good thing to
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live you know it is um first of all you know if we believe in in a sovereign god and if we believe
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um in its providence then we're living exactly when and where we're supposed to be living so that's
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number one and secondly i i agree with you it's it's not until um we face face pressure and opposition
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that we actually see what we really believe and what we're really made of and so you know these are
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frightening times terrifying um but at the same time um they ought to be hope-filled times
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um for those who live with that kind of hope i can't remember his name do you remember the guy
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he went blind he was a minister he was in one of the concentration camps and uh he was a pastor and he
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was he was happy and everybody in his barracks was happy and so they said you gotta you gotta beat him
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down and they put him underneath the barracks they didn't feed him he went blind but he was still
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singing in the end singing until they shot him in the head finally same thing with bonhoeffer he thanked
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his executioner boy i really want to get there i don't know how to get there how do you get there
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you know only by god's grace i don't i don't think that's something that that any of us um is necessarily
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prepared for until the time comes you know and um you know we of course we we hope and pray that that
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the time doesn't come but um god gives us grace for whatever he calls us to i was reading in the new
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york times this week that uh partial birth abortion doesn't exist
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yeah it's apparently just a republican talking point who knew huh really
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and saying that an abortion where they cut the baby's limbs off and stuff that's just a pejorative
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oh i thought it was a baby that you were cutting out look
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and um i i don't want to i mean unless it's a bug i i really don't want to take life
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i don't especially human life kind of important thing good safety tip
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pre-born is a um is a ministry that we have um partnered with they are the largest provider of
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free ultrasounds in the country and they are also the direct competitor to um planned parenthood
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we would like to this year by the end of the year rescue 50 000 babies when an expecting mom
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sees her child on an ultrasound it's not a clump of cells anymore it's a child
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when she hears the heartbeat which by the way doesn't exist that's just a made up sound out
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of the machine oh my gosh really are we there 80 percent of uh moms are more likely to choose
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life pre-born they go beyond just the ultrasound they provide maternity and baby clothes diapers car
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seats counseling books as the kids grow up i mean it's really good and it's all free of charge
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pre-born has a passion to save unborn babies from abortion and women to come see christ so over the
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past 15 years they've canceled they've counseled over 450 women who were considering abortion
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about 200 000 babies have been saved 200 000 babies will you help us rescue a baby's life today
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donate dial pound 250 say the keyword baby that's pound 250 keyword baby preborn.com slash glenn
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i was at a restaurant um the other night and somebody came in and just gave me the dirtiest look
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and i'm like okay and then uh i looked around the restaurant and i saw all these young people all
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these people just out doing their thing don't know how many of them even really know what's going on
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yeah and i began to think how quickly they could be turned because there's not going to be anybody on
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the sidelines you can't sit on the sidelines now can you no neutrality is not an option yeah so you have
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the uh burden of ezekiel on your shoulders how do you wake people how do you how do we wake people up
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boy um you know ultimately that's not something that we can even do um all we can do is be faithful
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and all we can do is continue to beat the drum right um all we can do is continue to warn people
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um all we can do is you know continue to try to be the watchman on the wall i read something that you
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wrote and it was about not using the name you know not not associate not associating your good works
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with the name um and uh i thought of unfortunately me a lot of times i i try to look for language that
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is uniting um and that a lot it has become sin don't say that word sacrifice don't say that word
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judgment don't say i mean you really you're out as somebody who believes in god you're out of language
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how important it is is it to use the language what how you but here's what's interesting glenn
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we we feel like that or we've felt like that but now all of a sudden the other side
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has absolutely no problem using that language they have no i mean you know gavin newsom
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puts bible verses on billboards advertising for people to come to california to slaughter their
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babies right when when when um you know madam vice president wanted to encourage everybody to to
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to get the jab um she she no problem quoting scripture in order to do that right the president
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has no problem quoting scripture and the press doesn't run around with their hair on fire
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if you do it on the left because i think they don't i think they think that's just pandering
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they really do they think well you're just saying that they don't believe it yeah right if somebody
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believes what they're actually then it's a problem now all of a sudden they run around with their hair
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on fire so um you know i i think it i think it's important for us to be open and honest about
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what we believe and where we're coming from and unashamed about what we believe and where we're
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coming from you know um especially when and i'm i'm you know all this this talk about you know christian
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nationalism you know um this have you ever heard a preacher preach any of that nonsense well actually i
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have have you unfortunately you know i have but is it is it prominent but but no no but there
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but there there are people who do that there are people on the fringes who do that but you know the
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the the problem with people who are running away from it is that what these people are running away
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from is our foundations right they're they're trying to act like america has always been this secular
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republic that never acknowledged god never not right and and the danger in that is we are the freest
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most prosperous most most tolerant right yeah that's that's who we've been since our our founding
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because of the foundations upon which we're built right this is the place where you know um jews and and
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and catholic mormon even i mean everybody right this is the place where people can have that kind of
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liberty now you and i know who's been to other parts of the world that like that does not exist
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where does it exist in the christian west that's where it exists and so the great irony is that when
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we run away from that um we're running away from the very thing that has given us the freedoms that we
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enjoy so let me ask you is um christianity seems to be diminishing quickly in the west yeah um the numbers
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are are quickly diminishing um and i in some ways i i wonder how much our churches are responsible
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some have made it so easy to be a christian that you don't really have to question anything except
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other people you know what i mean yeah um or they've made it about money and success and um it's not about
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principles and i don't see i mean i don't like when preachers get into politics but i'm not talking
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about politics we are so far beyond politics we are in basic bedrock principles yeah and they're afraid
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to do it yeah well this is where i go back to the unique nature of the american landscape and the fact
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of the matter is um most of the things that go by the name church um are are not right right um but
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but there's a remnant and unfortunately most of those people who are being faithful and who are being
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consistent um are tucked away in places where you don't necessarily know their name and uh as a result
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of that it it sort of looks like everybody's you know yeah yeah yeah sold the farm and everybody's
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you know gone astray um doesn't that happen awakenings don't happen in the church usually
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they hand they they happen outside of the church or at least the big power structure of the church do
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they not they start with individuals yeah yeah yeah i see what you're saying yeah outside the power
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structure and start with individuals and start and and really you know kind of go go you know beyond
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the walls yeah um sort of by by definition right um yeah absolutely and uh yeah the interesting thing
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though is like like right now we need awakening inside as much as if not more than outside you know over
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these last couple of years it's been shocking um to see the number of people who have been willing
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to embrace ideologies that are not just unbiblical but anti-biblical yeah you know that's
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it's changed it it used to be you used to be able to say well i can see if you're really misguided
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how you think that way now it's like no this you're not this is anti-christ stuff not the anti-christ but
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this is anti-christ this is opposite of what the bible would would teach is so it's not like we've
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decayed and are kind of sloppy on it no no no we've decayed to a point to where there's a side standing up
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going all of that is evil good is evil and evil is good yeah and i think part of that is because
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we were kind of lulled into it i mean think think about movies and television and the portrayal of
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christianity right if there's a positive portrayal of christianity in the movies or on television
00:26:27.980
it's either somebody who's a political leftist right it's it's the minister or the priest who's
00:26:38.600
out there fighting for social justice or it's the person who's running a soup kitchen right um you know
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or it's the person who's you know running an orphanage or it's the only positive pictures
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of christianity are those pictures that are social gospel pictures right and if anybody is
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you know in any way you know conservative or anything else then those are the images of christianity
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that are basically the christian taliban you know if you will and i think in many instances
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christians um christians decided no you know we want to be thought well of so we emphasized you know
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those social issues and social aspects but christ would have us do those things so shouldn't those
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two sides be the same coin yeah but if you do those without the gospel yeah okay okay yeah yeah right
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that's my point okay yeah is that those are the only things okay that we're seeing sure and we see
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those things because of you know the sort of universal brotherhood of man sort of ideas right
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nothing connected to christ and the gospel right nothing connected to this idea of sin and redemption
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nothing creating you know nothing that that gets you to you know here's our biblical worldview and this
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is our response because of our our biblical worldview just this sort of there's the universal brotherhood
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of man there's a group of people out there who are good people and they're good people because they do
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these sorts of social things correct right and the christians who join the ranks of these good people
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and do these good social things are good people not because they're christians but in spite of the fact
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that they are christians because they've joined this group over here that does these good things
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and and i think what has happened is there are a lot of people who sort of bought into that
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yeah and and that's the face that they that they want to show because the new christ is one of just
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do good things listen just be good the 11th commandment is thou shalt be nice and we don't believe the
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other 10 you know it is yeah it is um talk to me a little bit about the you you talked a little
00:29:14.720
bit about the church you're a southern baptist you were you almost became the head of the southern
00:29:21.280
baptist no not quite but you were i don't think that the votes were pretty close and i i don't that's not
00:29:29.540
to disparage the other man or anything but um what what happened what why were you standing up and
00:29:37.700
yeah there's a couple of things that happened there and first i was asked to uh allow my name to be put
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forward as president uh the southern maps convention and even before i had um processed that
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you know agreed to it or whatever um the news kind of leaked so the you know left wing progressives
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within and without this other maps convention just went on the attack i bet they and it it was it was
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brutal i mean it really was attacks on me attacks on my family attacks it just it was bad and i hadn't
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even you know i i my hat wasn't in the ring but just because it was rumored um and then what happened
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is some of the powers that be you know went you know deep into the to the books and the bylaws and
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you know they said well technically you know because this guy lives outside the country and because he's
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a member of a church that's outside the country technically um he's not eligible to he's not eligible to
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even put his hat in the ring and so i thought i thought your hat was in the ring no so what happened
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was um you know a group of the brethren who had asked me to put my hat in the ring and we basically
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said okay fine you can't do that but there's another position right um president of the sbc pastors
00:31:01.740
conference which again there's a whole nother story about you know why that would have been
00:31:06.840
significant and so myself and another brother tom askell tom askell accepted the nomination
00:31:13.380
as president of the convention i accepted the nomination as president of the pastors conference
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really to sort of you know run you know with him um of course we were in anaheim and a little inside
00:31:26.200
baseball here the further the convention meeting is away from the south um the more to the left
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yeah of course you know tends to be of course so you know we we didn't have much of a shot
00:31:38.660
going to anaheim but um both of us um were willing to do that because we feel like it was
00:31:48.340
it's almost like a last ditch effort um it it's almost like this thing doesn't turn around
00:31:55.260
um kind of like what we were saying about you know america if this thing doesn't turn around
00:32:00.160
um we're in trouble um so we both um a lot a lot ourselves to um to be subjected to that
00:32:07.780
wow you know for for those for those purposes and neither one of us um ended up um so winning
00:32:15.060
those races what it's because your denomination is not alone uh it is infiltrated somebody asked me
00:32:24.800
today how did it even get into the churches liberation theology i'm guessing is that how
00:32:31.580
at first how did how did this perverse anti-christian kind of message or anti-christ sort of message
00:32:40.740
get in i think a number of things and you're talking about do you like the whole social justice
00:32:44.900
all this other stuff yeah i think for many social for many southern baptists let me say two things
00:32:52.160
number one the overwhelming majority of southern baptist churches are not there they're they're
00:33:00.400
just not um so i think so what's crazy is our government is there yeah the vast majority of
00:33:10.800
americans yes are not there yeah but that disconnect between the two yes yes is dangerous it's absolutely
00:33:18.400
dangerous um but i think what what led people to even um entertain this is the subtlety right
00:33:30.640
social justice i mean if you don't if you don't know what that means and you're christian you're like
00:33:38.080
well yeah right anti-racism of course right um you know and so i i can't tell you how many people
00:33:51.160
i've had social justice yeah i've had so many conversations with that and say yeah the label
00:33:56.100
sounds good just like the inflation reduction act sounds good that's not what it is really good
00:34:02.640
yeah yeah yeah inflation reduction act well what does it do um not that yeah it causes more inflation
00:34:10.100
yeah so i i think for a lot of people right um again when you're talking about people who love the lord
00:34:23.740
and who love their fellow man right and they see people in pain right and and and and despair and
00:34:33.900
anguish and people are saying you know there's this injustice out there and we need to be about
00:34:40.440
social justice and racial justice and anti-racism and i think there is a tendency for folks to say
00:34:48.120
yes well yes you know um and and it's not only until later um i was talking to somebody i guess the
00:34:56.520
day before yesterday who was uh in denton and the college student and they were out and you know there
00:35:06.900
was a black lives matter march and so i think he was with his sister or somebody and you know people
00:35:14.080
were like you know black lives matter and they're marching and this and the other and his sister's
00:35:19.800
like you want to join them and he goes yeah i think we should you know and he said they marched for a
00:35:26.940
little while and all of a sudden they realized you know what this might not be what we this might not be
00:35:32.840
what we thought it was right yeah and i think that there are a lot of people who on a you know broader
00:35:40.280
scale had that experience and i i think they began to use the terminology they began to perhaps even
00:35:48.880
you know try to get involved and then slowly but surely the masks came off and they realized that this
00:35:57.120
this is not what we thought it was and i think even more significantly than that the premise
00:36:03.840
was wrong um so people always for me when people start talking about you know racial justice and
00:36:13.560
this justice i i say okay let's back up and tell me how you're defining injustice right and then when
00:36:23.300
they say well we're defining injustice as you know disparate outcomes right we're not saying that
00:36:30.580
there's you know nobody's saying hey there's a lunch counter over there that's saying that people
00:36:36.620
who look like this or belong that they can't come to the lunch counter right because you and i both know
00:36:41.860
if that's the case then we posse up and we go we go we go right go with you they're not saying that
00:36:47.120
they're saying no no no no no there there there's these disparate outcomes right and these outcomes
00:36:53.740
only exist because of the racism that's baked into the system and so we've got to go and deconstruct
00:37:02.060
this and fix these disparate outcomes i call it chasing ghosts right yeah and and so you know that's
00:37:09.060
so that's what i want to know you tell me what the injustice is and then i'll tell you whether or not
00:37:14.920
i'm going to partner with you in order to correct that injustice because what you're defining as
00:37:19.960
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most of these marxist things um are really the same aren't they they're just they're all about
00:39:12.860
tear you apart from your family tear you apart from your own self-worth yeah um tear you apart from
00:39:23.460
uh any kind of religious belief that teaches you that you are unique and special and you know that
00:39:31.920
winning isn't that's not justice justice isn't found in in that stuff um aren't they all pretty much
00:39:41.100
based on just the destruction of the individual at the end of the day they're based on power
00:39:49.940
right and it's ironic because you know what they do is they set up this paradigm and this paradigm
00:39:58.720
says you know everything is about power dynamics and there are these people who have power and they
00:40:05.860
set up the system in order to maintain that power and they oppress people you know who don't have power
00:40:11.860
um and then of course therefore tear them down and give us power correct right because we'll because
00:40:18.860
we'll handle it the right right right we we won't we won't be like them and so essentially it's all
00:40:24.600
about power so you talked about for example you know the the family um and the church and why are the
00:40:33.820
family and the church for example enemies to the marxist because challenge of power yes yes if you
00:40:43.640
have a family that is raising you in the nurture and admonition of the lord right ephesians 6 4 if you
00:40:52.600
have a church that is proclaiming you know law and gospel and pointing you to faith in christ and
00:41:02.160
developing you know biblical worldview if these things are happening in your life then marxism is not
00:41:09.580
going to be able to get its hooks in you like it can if we can divorce you from your family
00:41:15.640
and divorce you from your your church it's a cult that's exactly what a cult does yes yes yes absolutely
00:41:23.860
and so that's why because it's all about power and it's all about removing those things that that are
00:41:30.280
a threat to that power i think it's important to um which again black lives remember black lives matter
00:41:37.260
on their website before yeah yeah they changed it right destruction of the nuclear family yes i know
00:41:43.060
yes i know so but it's power it's their power yes by disempowering you yes or anyone else that they
00:41:51.520
don't select yes it it takes i mean the world economic forum has been talking about esg and all of this
00:42:01.080
crap and their their goal they say is by 2030 you will own nothing and you'll be happy yeah a i don't
00:42:10.320
think so yeah um but i do think they could get us to a place to where we own nothing yeah but it has to
00:42:16.520
be destroy it that you have you can't take that you don't have to destroy it you you just have to
00:42:24.540
basically um you know take it give it to the state yeah yeah yeah you have to take it or destroy it
00:42:32.980
you know you destroy the individual's ability to maintain or have or any of that i think i said in
00:42:40.320
some of our discussions before that i'm telling people that you know the the three most important
00:42:46.000
books right now are the bible 1984 and animal farm it's crazy we're seeing it you know we're watching
00:42:58.020
it right now we're we're watching the rules on the wall will be changed you know from from from day to
00:43:04.360
day you know um and and and again we're we're watching those people who on the one hand talk about
00:43:12.280
despising um you know power and power dynamics but i do everything that they can to accumulate power
00:43:20.480
for themselves talk to me a little bit about um well first of all the southern baptists do they
00:43:25.780
believe in do you believe in um the rapture well some southern baptists do some southern baptists don't
00:43:35.100
there's 47 000 southern baptist churches and um you know when you start talking about eschatology
00:43:42.260
right and and and in times there's different groups and different camps yeah um and so that's
00:43:48.760
not an area uh where southern baptists um rule one way or another yeah yeah yeah it's yeah i so want
00:43:57.040
this to be true because i have a lot of southern baptist friends and they're like yeah christ is coming
00:44:01.620
and i'm like oh i hope you're true i i hope that he takes me too you know um but i i uh i worry about
00:44:11.720
some of my friends because people have i mean i personally think we're living in the latter days
00:44:16.480
but they've been thinking about that the apostles thought that yeah yeah and if you don't do the
00:44:21.840
things you're supposed to if you're just like the boss is gonna come pick me up before it happens
00:44:25.840
if the bus doesn't show up yeah you're in trouble you're in trouble yeah so um talk to me a little bit
00:44:34.520
about i just i keep coming back to this with you i feel like uh teach us how to prepare how to be
00:44:45.960
obedient what the important obedience and endurance i said to my kids when they were young
00:44:51.560
that's what life is really all about obedience and endurance and they were like dad you make it
00:44:57.500
sound like life's a drag and i'm like if you have those two things down it's not right if you don't
00:45:03.760
recognize that right it's gonna be a hell show right yeah you know i was talking about um second
00:45:09.460
corinthians 10 earlier and you know you continue on in that that that first paragraph there in that
00:45:17.000
chapter you get to this two-pronged approach right and it's you know we destroy every argument and
00:45:26.440
lofty opinion raised against the knowledge of christ and we take every thought captive to obey
00:45:32.720
christ that's what we have to do that's how we prepare and i like to talk about those in reverse
00:45:38.760
number one take every thought captive to obey christ and one of the major explain one of the major
00:45:44.960
problems that we have is that people have not taken every thought captive in other words they have
00:45:52.000
this kind of bifurcated view of life and they say over here yeah is god and over here is jesus and
00:46:01.420
over here is salvation and over here is church right and here's what that spiritual part of my life
00:46:06.400
and then over here is politics and economics and you know all these other things and so we're not
00:46:16.060
bringing this under this umbrella and so we don't have a full-orbed biblical theological understanding
00:46:25.500
of civics for example so i know you're i know you're a history guy right so if we look you know
00:46:33.800
pietism you know takes hold pietism is the idea that basically um you know we're just here to be
00:46:41.860
religious people in church not involved in that secular world or you know whatever right
00:46:47.420
liberalism let's say you know again we're back 1920s 30s you know liberalism takes hold
00:46:57.980
and the fundamentalists respond j gresham machin and so on and so forth now now fundamentalism is a you
00:47:06.280
know it's a pejorative right but when i say fundamentalism i mean those people who said no
00:47:11.620
to the liberals no we believe in the fundamentals you're denying the virgin birth right you're
00:47:17.820
denying the resurrection you're denying the supernatural so the fundamentalists say no no
00:47:22.180
no we believe in those fundamentals of the faith we move forward you know in history and all of a
00:47:30.180
sudden we get this kind of the sort of religious right movement right now the religious right movement
00:47:36.020
movement um was a powerful movement but it was based on their ability to get people organized and
00:47:44.520
motivated and and and out you know to vote and whatnot but it was a mile wide and half an inch deep
00:47:53.140
the theological foundations weren't there it was just activism for activism's sake it was things are bad
00:48:04.240
we'll give you a voter guide go vote for the guys that we tell you to vote for and then we'll turn this
00:48:11.400
thing around because we voted for the right guys and that's not the answer we have to take every thought
00:48:20.040
captive to obey christ i don't just need to know who to vote for i need to know why i'm voting amen right
00:48:28.380
yes i i don't i don't just i need i don't just need to know i like this policy i don't like that policy
00:48:34.440
what's wrong with this policy like like fundamentally what's wrong with this policy
00:48:41.040
see so i need to all of christ for all of life take every thought captive to obey christ
00:48:47.080
and destroy every argument and lofty opinion raised against the knowledge of god
00:48:54.380
that's the two-pronged war that we fight number one having this you know full orbed well-developed
00:49:03.400
biblical worldview and then number two with that being able to say um no that's problematic because
00:49:13.780
no he's problematic because right it's not enough to just say you know no we're you know going to vote
00:49:23.180
against this that or the other you know we're going to be pro-life why are you going to be pro-life
00:49:27.460
from a biblical theological perspective why are you going to be pro-life talk to me about being
00:49:35.060
created in the image of god and having inherent dignity worth and value right talk to me about
00:49:40.320
the sanctity of human life because of the incarnation of jesus christ who doesn't just come into the
00:49:47.300
world as a full-grown man in order to redeem and ransom humanity he comes as an embryo right
00:49:55.660
thereby sanctifying human life from its very origins and beginnings all the way through to its natural
00:50:06.480
end right so that's the kind of thing i'm talking about we've got to be able to think through these
00:50:11.820
things biblically so that nobody just can can come and you know just drag us by the nose right and for
00:50:20.140
us to be carried away by every wind of doctrine so it's a long way around to answering your no no
00:50:27.280
it's a good answer yeah so take me to and i don't know if you can off the top of your head but take
00:50:33.640
me to you said economics need to be brought under yeah talk to me about our economics what we're doing
00:50:40.640
right now how how is god in that yeah in what we're doing right now or what we should be doing
00:50:49.500
yeah yeah yeah why is this wrong what we're doing right yeah and partly because it's theft
00:50:57.400
right i mean that's that's the main reason that it's wrong is because we're actually taking from
00:51:04.020
people render unto caesar's what do you mean in order in order to in order to give to other people
00:51:10.580
right wait isn't that render unto caesar's um sort of right um but but what are we rendering unto caesar
00:51:18.200
for well why does caesar exist what is caesar's purpose right under when jesus time though caesar was
00:51:29.520
you know what he was not a good no no absolutely but we have to understand what the purpose of
00:51:34.760
government is yes right to protect rights yeah absolutely and to you know encourage what is good
00:51:42.560
and to punish what is evil right um that's that's government's purpose um it's not government's purpose
00:51:52.140
for example to be in the business of praising children it's not government's purpose um you know
00:52:00.160
to be in the business even of taking care of the poor that that's not their sphere right and it's our
00:52:07.300
sphere and the churches it absolutely is so from that standpoint you know abraham kuyper um you had
00:52:16.000
you know the this big idea of sphere sovereignty right god gives us these institutions he gives us the
00:52:21.620
family he gives us the state and he gives us the church these three different spheres right and
00:52:27.560
these three different spheres um have certain responsibilities and they have sovereignty in those
00:52:34.080
you know particular spheres and what we have is we've got these jurisdictional usurpations of
00:52:42.020
sphere sovereignty like the government basically you know usurping the sphere sovereignty of the home of
00:52:50.780
the family so again but just particularly back to economics um the idea of personal property
00:52:59.460
the idea of personal responsibility the idea of you know how is personal property tying to the lord
00:53:08.160
saving yeah well i mean we're told for example in the bible that we shouldn't move you know the you know
00:53:15.560
ancient uh landmarks um you know we're we're the idea of people's property being their own in the new
00:53:23.760
testament you know ananias and sapphire everybody talks about you know ananias and sapphire because
00:53:29.220
you know god judges them because they withheld you know part of the money that they got you know from
00:53:36.140
the sale of their their home the problem wasn't that they you know didn't give that up right
00:53:45.080
peter says you know what before you sold that that was yours but then you sold it and you said that
00:53:55.220
you were gonna give it right right that's where the judgment came but before you sold that
00:54:01.320
that was yours it didn't belong to someone else it belonged to you right um i mean you know the
00:54:11.540
respect for the respect for personal property the stewardship of personal property um you know
00:54:18.020
the parable of the talents you know i mean all of these things um are clearly outlined in the
00:54:26.660
scriptures if we are willing to study to show ourselves approved if we're willing to you know
00:54:32.340
tease these things out and not only that but we also see um the the things that are wrong when
00:54:42.600
government for example begins to usurp the sphere of the family um you know families by the way were
00:54:51.780
meant to be places of um you know not just consumption places of production right um so anyway let me um
00:55:03.260
let me build on that a bit with with this question um
00:55:08.460
how do you how do you balance just recently with now the military
00:55:21.660
military is now flying military members out of state to be able to get abortions so not only is the
00:55:28.380
government paying for the abortion with my money yeah but they're also paying for the flight and they're
00:55:34.960
encouraging all of these things i stand firmly against um and they become abusive really abusive
00:55:45.840
to things that i hold sacred not that i like not that but sacred
00:55:51.120
how do you how do you square that circle with you know obeying your governments yeah
00:56:03.760
we're not necessarily called to obey our government in everything nobody can command what god forbids
00:56:14.160
and nobody can forbid what god commands okay covid regulations notwithstanding that that was
00:56:21.500
inappropriate the government does not have the right to tell the church that she can't meet for
00:56:25.380
example and i think we have for example in in in acts chapter four we have an example of this when
00:56:33.560
you know peter and and john are told not to you know preach or teach anymore in the name of jesus
00:56:41.800
and their response is right whether it is right to obey you rather than god you be the judge but we
00:56:47.560
cannot stop speaking about what we heard um when the apostle paul is in the in jail in philippi
00:56:54.920
he's been jailed there and eventually they find out that he's a roman citizen
00:56:59.720
and you know okay you go no i'm not going you bring the magistrate here right he jailed me illegitimately
00:57:09.480
right um so as christians um our position is not that the state just you know has the right to do
00:57:21.800
whatever the state wants to do as christians on the one hand no one has the right to command what god
00:57:28.380
forbids or forbid what god commands right um and out of deference to the state we're willing to accept
00:57:34.220
whatever punishment we have to accept when we say no right but on the other hand as citizens
00:57:40.860
we have rights and here's the other thing as americans we're in a very unique position
00:57:53.420
most americans look at like romans 13 you know um i think that you're alluding to
00:58:02.480
and they say well you know according to romans 13 you know we have to submit to them guess what
00:58:09.300
as an american do you know what my governing authority is it's not an individual it's god
00:58:15.840
god is ultimately my governing authority but as an american citizen my governing authority is the
00:58:23.260
constitution yes correct that's my governing authority and everybody is held to that governing
00:58:31.480
authority so one of the problems that we have is we don't know what it says so when this person
00:58:39.680
says something that's completely out of line with that well we go oh i guess i'm supposed to do it
00:58:46.440
no what you might ought to do is confront that based on the fact that they are not obeying
00:58:56.360
what we're all you know agreed to obey which is our constitution we are a we're a constitutional republic
00:59:06.640
right there's people going to jail now you said you have to take you know responsibility and they
00:59:13.500
are taking responsibility but they're being unjustly i believe unjustly held 11 years in prison is
00:59:19.500
insanity um it's a misdemeanor if that if that um for what are you for for the abortion the face act
00:59:28.480
have you no no no no oh you haven't heard this no so you know i live in africa yeah i know you live in
00:59:34.260
africa um so the fbi has rounded up 12 11 or 12 people now um one of them is like an 84 year old
00:59:43.300
grandmother who was praying at the entrance of an abortion clinic at the time the abortion clinic
00:59:50.700
came and told them they had to go uh some of them some of them were um hit with a misdemeanor for
01:00:00.800
trespassing i think um and it was over two years ago the doj has started opening up cases now of
01:00:10.220
those misdemeanors that were just misdemeanor and dismissed and they are now charging them with a face
01:00:18.240
act which is blocking the entrance and they are facing 11 years wow our government is completely
01:00:30.000
out of control wow wow wow wow well you know we have a recourse right we have a recourse you know
01:00:39.900
right so at the ballot box right so what so what i have a recourse at the ballot box what i want to ask
01:00:46.540
the jury box i want to ask you because that's my response yeah um but where do you think where do
01:00:54.680
you think the lord stands on difference between protecting yourself and going out and uh creating
01:01:02.620
violence or looking for violence to correct it where do you think the lord is on peace and
01:01:10.540
advancing yeah advancing well we don't look for violence i mean vengeance is mine saith the lord
01:01:16.120
i will repay right so i mean that's a that's a that's a pretty clear line there but at the same
01:01:22.840
time um you know defending our own lives uh that's different you know that's that's if they come for me
01:01:30.380
and they're trying to take my life or take my children's lives i don't have an obligation to let
01:01:35.300
you kill me yes yes yes yes um uh let's let's change the subject to um the culture a bit it is
01:01:47.120
almost impossible to um ride the culture right now i i saw some things on um on twitter yesterday
01:02:05.020
this crowd was just beating this guy down black on black beating him down just kicking him in the head
01:02:15.000
vicious his his girlfriend wife i don't know came and um actually put her body over his head because
01:02:24.020
they were kicking him in the head he just lifted up and slapped her out slapped her out knocked her out
01:02:31.260
i see a video of these guys on stage doing vile vile things on stage um and then the next video
01:02:44.020
related to that was these kids this tall doing that and actually having adults around encouraging it
01:02:52.580
what the hell's happened where how how do we where is anyone stopping this yeah this this is this is
01:03:04.720
that that romans 1 you know this is that that second timothy 3 this is that devolution of of culture
01:03:13.320
and it's incredibly sad um to watch but it seems like it'd be discouraging to watch but it's so
01:03:23.300
discouraging yeah kanye has stood up against this and was brutalized yeah for it yeah um you know and
01:03:31.340
i don't yeah yeah i don't know about i really honestly don't know about kanye where he's at but
01:03:37.420
i mean he at least was speaking out against it yeah and but you know here's the deal that comes from
01:03:45.840
somewhere right um that that comes from brokenness that and it comes from a broken worldview it comes
01:03:56.160
from um a devaluation of humanity um not to mention our fallenness in sin right
01:04:06.440
so you know man is fallen and and sinful that's the problem internally and then the culture is
01:04:15.280
broken and fallen and sinful and that's the problem externally and then what we don't have is we don't
01:04:22.760
have you know the state again that sphere doing and being what it's supposed to do and be right
01:04:30.660
encourage that which is good and punish that which is evil instead they're encouraging that which is
01:04:40.480
evil and often punishing that which is good so that that causes this to mushroom right um and then of
01:04:48.260
course if from the individual perspective we're not coming at that with law and gospel if we're not
01:04:57.100
coming at that with the law that points us to our need for christ and if we're not coming at that with
01:05:02.580
the gospel right that shows how what we need is repentance and faith but instead church just becomes
01:05:11.500
like we talked about earlier just this sort of social institution right um you know or some other
01:05:19.140
perversion you know of this gospel i mean where else are we going to go but see more of this is um
01:05:28.680
how is satan real yes so describe what is the prince of the power of the air who's now at work in the
01:05:40.000
sons of disobedience yeah there there is a there is a real devil there is real evil but you know in
01:05:45.240
in ephesians chapter two those first you know three verses we see this triad right we do see
01:05:58.000
satan we do see the devil um and he is real um he is a fallen angel he is the prince of the power of
01:06:05.760
the air he is at work in the sons of disobedience uh and so father of all lies father of all chaos
01:06:12.720
absolutely absolutely we do see that but we also see the world right this this world this world
01:06:19.800
system that we live in okay that teaches us what to think why to think when to think okay how to think
01:06:27.220
um it teaches us you know what to desire when to desire so we see the world and they also see the flesh
01:06:33.700
we are fallen in adam and we inherit um a sin nature from adam because of our fallen adam now you put
01:06:46.280
these together it's the world the flesh and the devil and that's what gets you this chaos that we find
01:06:55.620
ourselves in and again when we're encouraging that and when we're calling good evil and evil good
01:07:04.100
um we're just we're pouring we're pouring gasoline on that fire
01:07:07.880
the people who are um i think there's a small number of people who know they're doing the bidding of
01:07:20.920
evil um and i don't even know who they are don't i you know but i think there are those who know
01:07:28.640
exactly what they're doing yeah um but most part the others are not
01:07:36.180
is that uh is that why we're supposed to love our enemy
01:07:45.640
because they're by the grace of god go i there's i was just talking to somebody who who wrote um
01:07:53.400
the book uh the oh i can't remember but it's on uh it's on fascism and what we're going through
01:08:04.040
right now and he said there's this not to get into the gnostic kind of belief but there's this
01:08:09.740
there's a percentage of people who when this stuff happens they just and he said i don't know why
01:08:15.520
but they just don't go there they just don't they see the world differently than the 70 percent
01:08:21.540
you know what i mean and they're from the beginning going what are you guys doing
01:08:25.300
um and i don't believe that we were born just knowing i don't believe any of that um
01:08:32.120
but but there's a difference between the leadership and those who have just fallen slowly and don't even
01:08:42.420
know isn't there yeah there absolutely is and most people fall into that category of follower you
01:08:50.720
know and who've you know fallen slowly and don't really know um but but back to your your question
01:08:58.360
about you know loving our enemies that you're right i mean there were for the grace of god go i
01:09:06.600
but also these are people who are made in the image of god there are there are brothers and
01:09:11.440
sisters and he wants all of his kids back these are people who are made in the image of god
01:09:15.060
um and and our our desire my desire for that individual is for them to come to repentance and
01:09:27.240
faith my desire is for their sin to be nailed to the tree my desire is for christ to have the
01:09:35.060
fullness of the reward for which he died that's my desire um now if it were not for
01:09:43.560
the fact that i know that god is going to set everything right then you know i would feel like
01:09:53.220
i had to write every wrong and i would feel like i had to exact vengeance correct i don't
01:09:58.720
right whatever those wrongs are they're either going to be punished um upon that person if they
01:10:06.260
don't come to repentance and faith or nailed to the cross right but in either way it is not incumbent
01:10:14.900
upon me to bring about that judgment and the other thing is again back to what you said there but for
01:10:21.320
the grace of god you know my sin was nailed to the tree yeah okay i i placed my faith in the finished
01:10:28.900
work of christ so i'm not who i am um because i figured it out i'm not who i am because i'm inherently
01:10:37.060
better than anyone um you know i i am who i am and i stand where i stand because of god's grace to me
01:10:45.820
through the person and work of christ so that that that takes away boasting as paul would say in
01:10:52.400
romans right there's no room for boasting right yeah uh you're going back to africa tonight tonight
01:10:59.260
yeah yeah why i mean i used to think you know go to australia go to new zealand now i think no
01:11:09.360
there's really no place there's no place but what do you what do you why africa why the pole um you
01:11:17.460
know i i'm in zambia down in south central africa and um really i i went there to to help start uh
01:11:25.480
the university to help start the african christian university and it it was a fit you know it was a fit
01:11:33.440
my gifts talents abilities and desires um were were just a fit for this need and for this unique
01:11:42.060
opportunity and it is a very unique opportunity in a country about the size of texas um with you know
01:11:50.460
about half the population um it's a constitutionally christian republic um there's receptivity there you
01:12:00.360
know to to the gospel and and there's just there's there's an opportunity um to do something with
01:12:07.200
with lasting impact and you know and so we're there i'm just i i ask you this um because i know why
01:12:16.840
you're there but um you know people who will listen to you and hear you i know that you're like
01:12:22.620
come back to america you're a voice we really need does that ever pull at you no really no
01:12:29.460
it doesn't it really doesn't i think for a couple of reasons one you know i have opportunities to i
01:12:35.920
come back three or four times a year and i'm here for about you know 10 or 12 days during different
01:12:41.240
speaking tours and i get to see and be around um and have relationships with with folks who get it and
01:12:52.620
who are doing incredible work right you what did what did you what did you feel from africa that when
01:12:59.920
you arrived you didn't have locked in do have you learned anything about where we are or what's
01:13:06.540
happening that you couldn't feel or see from across the water i think the speed with which
01:13:16.280
it's happening i come back about once a quarter and it's crazy you know when i see certain things
01:13:25.900
out i was watching um i was watching something the other day i was probably like a football game or
01:13:31.220
something i don't get to watch football games you know so when i'm here you know i go to a restaurant
01:13:36.240
with people and you know how they have the games and i'm the guy who's yeah i just don't get to see
01:13:42.160
them anymore you know i've got 11 days and i saw a commercial i think it was a commercial for
01:13:49.380
you know some kind of pharmaceuticals or something maybe an age drug or something and it was just
01:13:56.500
open blatant um you know just in your face and and i was i'm sitting there you know my jaw
01:14:09.380
practically on the ground yeah and i'm going wait what what what am what am i seeing right now and
01:14:17.120
people around me are going oh yeah you know so i think for me you know being away and then coming
01:14:22.880
back it's good it just really does you know the other thing is um because we moved in 2015
01:14:30.340
so we were there at the end of the obama administration and you know i'm a i'm a news
01:14:40.160
guy you know and talk radio news whatever and i you know i stay up on what's happening and and you
01:14:47.120
know think about things i try to think about things and uh you know and i go over there and i'm listening
01:14:54.840
to you know bbc africa and to their reporting on the obama administration and on america and it's
01:15:03.620
and i'm going what are they talking about like like where where are they getting this from
01:15:12.780
you know and so and then of course you know trump wins and you know talk about people running around
01:15:20.940
with their hair on fire right oh yeah um and so it's just really interesting to be in another
01:15:27.420
country and listen to the way that people um perceive what's what's going on in america and then the the
01:15:38.060
third thing is being in a in a developing country um i have so come to appreciate what we have in america
01:15:50.920
things that people take for granted right such as infrastructure um but not just infrastructure
01:16:00.360
just the cultural differences for example you come to a four-way stop at most places in the united
01:16:15.340
they don't do that really it's the wild west man wow you know you come to you know you come to it
01:16:25.980
because you know we got your traffic lights but they don't ever work and you know you you come to a
01:16:31.820
stop and you just gotta you gotta you know you just gotta be really careful i have a lot of faith
01:16:37.080
man you know but but that's a cultural thing yeah you know um and and it's those kind of things i've
01:16:45.460
i've just come to you know to appreciate and and also i've come to see what the deterioration
01:16:56.820
you know and the degradation of those things um look like over time um and then on the other side you
01:17:04.560
know i'm in a country um where you know there's certain laws you know in terms of morality and
01:17:11.420
things like that um are more like what we used to have you know here in the united states so
01:17:18.140
yeah i i just i don't know i i see things from a different perspective um you know we've been there
01:17:24.320
for seven years now um and it's just been very interesting to see um the changes um and and and
01:17:32.500
just to become more and more aware of of what it means to be an american i tell people all the time
01:17:39.240
if i've learned anything about living in africa it's that i'm not an african
01:17:43.240
it is great it is great to see you and we've known each other now for two or three years and
01:17:54.040
have never had a chance to sit down face to face it's it's an honor to be your friend yeah it really
01:17:59.420
is and i appreciate i appreciate you know our our discussions whether that happen in front of a
01:18:04.260
camera or behind a camera you know and i'm grateful god bless you thank you that's your brother
01:18:10.060
just a reminder i'd love you to rate and subscribe to the podcast and pass this on to a friend so it