Ep 166 ｜ De-Transitioner Exposes Dark World of 'Gender-Affirming Care' ｜ Chloe Cole ｜ The Glenn Beck Podcast
Episode Stats
Length
1 hour and 5 minutes
Words per Minute
152.98744
Summary
Chloe Cole is a 16-year-old girl who identifies as transgender and wants to save other children around the world. She says her mission is to expose the darkness and lies of the transgender movement, and the lies that society spreads about it.
Transcript
00:00:00.000
There's been a dizzying spike in the number of children who identify as transgender or
00:00:06.280
non-binary. Five years ago, that number was 15,000 children between the ages of 6 and 17
00:00:12.900
were diagnosed with gender dysphoria. Last year, there were 42,000, and that's just the number of
00:00:20.940
kids who have been diagnosed. At every stage of the process, they have to be encouraged to
00:00:28.000
transition by adults in important positions, doctors, therapists, teachers, coaches, counselors,
00:00:34.540
all the way up to the president of the United States. And that's how bad things are. Our
00:00:40.580
president nominated a transgender activist to the Department of Health and entertained a TikTok
00:00:46.600
celebrity who plays a cartoonish stereotype of a woman. They're always recruiting new victims and
00:00:54.800
devoted to making it as easy as possible for minors to transition at whatever cost.
00:01:01.520
And by transition, I mean a name change or updated pronouns. This is a lot more than just that and
00:01:12.420
more than playing dress up. For the first time in human history, least recorded history, kids as
00:01:19.720
young as six are receiving puberty blockers, hormone treatments, even surgeries that include irreversible
00:01:27.860
mutilation of genital parts, hysterectomies, and mastectomies. All in the name of compassion. But I don't
00:01:37.540
think that that is compassion. Despite major censorship and progressive bullying around the issue,
00:01:44.400
transition regret is becoming more and more common. A growing number of people who have transitioned
00:01:50.760
have realized that trying to change their gender doesn't solve their emotional or mental problems
00:01:57.800
the way they thought it would. And as you will hear today, it can often make the problems much,
00:02:04.120
much worse. Our guest today, after getting her first iPhone and logging on to Instagram,
00:02:10.040
she says she became brainwashed by gender ideology at 11. At 13, she began medically transitioning to a
00:02:19.080
boy. At 15, she had a double mastectomy. At 18, she has had to grieve the fact that she'll never be
00:02:26.840
able to experience the sacred part of motherhood and even breastfeed her own child. But now she's on a
00:02:34.060
mission. And I'm telling you a very brave mission. Pray for this. Pray for this young woman. She is
00:02:42.540
extraordinarily brave. She says her mission is to expose the darkness and the lies of the transgender
00:02:48.760
movement to save other children here in America and around the and around the world. Today, please
00:02:56.840
welcome our podcast guest, Chloe Cole. Ever walk into somebody's house and it smells like cat or it
00:03:06.540
smells like fish or it just smells like something they cooked, even if it was good? I used to live
00:03:12.820
in an apartment that everything always smelled like soup. I don't know why. I wish I had the Eden
00:03:18.500
Pure Thunderstorm air purifier. The thunderstorm isn't your garden variety of air purifier. This thing uses
00:03:24.700
powerful O3 molecules that actually hunt odors down and destroy them. They also kill viruses,
00:03:31.900
mold and so much more. And they get to the places you normally can't reach behind the refrigerator,
00:03:38.640
under the furniture, all of that stuff. So you'll be getting clean, fresh smelling air all the time.
00:03:45.860
And right now you can save $200 on the Eden Pure Thunderstorm 3 pack for Holt home protection.
00:03:51.840
You'll get three units for under $200. That's an amazing deal. And it means that you can not only
00:03:58.260
keep your house smelling fresh all over, but you can also put one in the truck as well. Listen,
00:04:04.800
you may not know how fresh the air you're breathing is, but I'm telling you, when you put in Eden Pure,
00:04:12.660
you will find out how fresh your air can be. Find out, go to EdenPureDeals.com, EdenPureDeals.com.
00:04:20.920
Put in the discount code of GLEN3 and save $200.
00:04:43.780
You're a brave woman. And thank you for coming in.
00:04:49.160
And I just want to explain, if you're watching, she's got a blanket because it's about 62 in here.
00:04:56.480
That's about what we keep the studio at 62. And so I hope you're comfortable.
00:05:04.540
I want to preface this with, this is a subject that you just can't have a frank conversation on.
00:05:15.680
And people on both sides are going to be, you know, pissy about whatever anybody says.
00:05:22.300
But we have to have this conversation. And as a dad, I tried to explain to my 16-year-old daughter
00:05:30.240
that compassion without truth and without full knowledge and expression is not compassion.
00:05:42.640
And there's a trend in our country and in our world where I don't care what the subject is.
00:05:53.560
You're either with the right people or you're out of society.
00:05:59.140
And it's extraordinarily dangerous. And you, unfortunately, have felt it firsthand.
00:06:05.120
So, talk to me. You're eight years old and you're a tomboy.
00:06:13.240
Two sisters and two brothers, yeah. They're all older than me.
00:06:15.600
Right. And you didn't like dresses or, you know, frilly stuff, right?
00:06:20.320
I mean, I was kind of in between on those things. Like, I had influence from both sexes growing up because I had so many siblings.
00:06:27.940
I mean, I actually, when I was younger, I actually loved, like, wearing dresses and skirts and things like that and, like, playing with dolls.
00:06:35.040
And I also like playing, like, video games with my older brothers and, like, playing with their Legos and their toy guns.
00:06:45.500
And that doesn't make them in the wrong body. It just, it just, everybody's different. Everybody's different.
00:06:53.040
Interesting. So, did anybody think, did you think, eight years old, I'm in the wrong body?
00:07:00.740
Um, I mean, the idea never really came to me until I started using social media, actually.
00:07:07.300
I got my first phone when I was, when I was 11 and, you know, because I wanted to fit in with all my other friends who had phones at the time.
00:07:14.780
I made my, my, my first social media account on, on Instagram and Snapchat and on Instagram.
00:07:20.900
Um, I mean, I wasn't actually supposed to be using it so young because the minimum age is actually 13, but they don't really, they don't actually, they don't actually check that.
00:07:30.640
But, um, I saw a lot of things on there that I really shouldn't have at that age.
00:07:39.280
I mean, the content from other women, um, other young women, a lot of it is like, um, they post themselves in like really like skimpy outfits or like really, really sexualized poses or they're, they're wearing like a bunch of makeup or they've got like, they've, they like edit or like filter their bodies or they even have like, like plastic surgery.
00:08:03.900
They're done on their faces or they're done on their faces or their bodies.
00:08:06.420
And I mean, aside from that, a lot of it was just like complaining about like, um, just how tough growing into a woman is, like how, how scary periods and the possibility of pregnancy and the pain of childbirth and then eventually going through menopause.
00:08:25.640
And I find that nobody, no girls or women really ever talked about like the great things about being a woman and the great things that come with all of those things.
00:08:40.960
And I find that this, not only was it like this on the internet, but even from like the, the girls and women that I grew up around me with were kind of like that as well.
00:08:51.600
Um, it's really interesting to me that, um, our society and we've been doing it for a long time, um, says that they're empowering women, but at the same time, they're not, they're empowering a specific type of woman, um, that will assume a stereotypical male role.
00:09:16.920
Um, and that doesn't make that bad, but it, it, it, our society is not celebrating the other side.
00:09:25.140
I, I've talked to moms all the time who say, I'm, you know, I'm just a mom.
00:09:36.220
So that's what, in my generation, we had, um, people saying, I, you know, girls saying, how can I be happy with my body?
00:09:45.520
With all these magazines, but it's a hundred times worse now online and nobody seems to talk about it.
00:09:53.300
Um, I mean, not only did I have like a, I was kind of insecure about like my, like being, like being feminine a little bit.
00:10:03.080
Um, I mean, growing up, I mean, a lot of the content, the, the like comics and books and cartoons I would, I would read or watch as a kid were kind of, kind of like downplayed like the role of like the, the girls.
00:10:19.000
Like it was always like about the boys and the girls were always like getting in the way or they're like really stupid, not really, not really helping.
00:10:26.220
Um, but I also, because I was using social media so young and I was seeing like these very idealized images of women.
00:10:39.120
Um, I mean, as I was just a kid and I wasn't like, I was only a few years in a purity, I wasn't very devolved, but I also didn't understand that I wasn't really, most women aren't really supposed to look like that.
00:10:50.820
But I started developing some body image issues and, um, down the line, I was actually diagnosed with body dysmorphia well after I transitioned.
00:11:01.340
So you go from not having any idea, none of these ideas really crossed your mind.
00:11:12.120
Then when do you start to say, I'm in the wrong body?
00:11:19.480
Um, so at around that time, I also started to get like a lot of LGBTQ content in my feed, especially like trans, like non-binary or, um, things like that.
00:11:33.380
And a lot of it was coming from other young women as well, like ages, maybe like 12 to early twenties.
00:11:40.780
And, um, you know, I was kind of a, I was kind of an awkward kid.
00:11:49.580
So I've kind of struggled a little bit with socializing with, especially with other people,
00:11:56.080
And I found that as I got older, um, it got more difficult to make friends, especially with
00:12:05.400
Um, but it just kind of struck me how, like, how happy these people outwardly seem to be
00:12:18.000
and how, when they came out to their families and their friends, they were...
00:12:26.800
And I, that was something that, even if I didn't realize at the time, I wish that I had for
00:12:40.700
So before we get there, let's, let's take it the next step.
00:12:45.860
Did you initiate this and say, I'm non-binary, I think I'm in the wrong body?
00:12:54.040
What, who did you first tell and what happened?
00:12:57.060
Yeah, so, naturally after some time, after being exposed to stuff for, for a little bit,
00:13:11.480
And I kind of, like, switched through, switched between labels, like, bisexual, pansexual, and
00:13:23.920
And then eventually I settled on, maybe I'm just not a girl and I'm actually a boy.
00:13:34.440
Do you think this would have happened without the media and the popularity of this?
00:13:43.860
But I, I came out to my older sister and some closer family members and friends at school
00:13:51.660
And then without my parents knowing, I started buying, like, clothes out of the boys section.
00:13:57.480
And then after a few months, I, I came out to them.
00:14:01.320
I wrote a letter because I was, I was afraid of having that conversation, starting that conversation
00:14:07.860
And I wanted to allow them some time to think about it.
00:14:11.520
So I just left a letter on the dining room table.
00:14:14.200
It is, it's frightening to talk to your parents about, and I've, as a parent, have had conversations
00:14:23.100
And if you don't, and I don't know your situation with your parents, but if you don't have a conversation
00:14:28.880
where you, you don't have a relationship where you feel I can say anything and they'll
00:14:33.280
never stop loving me, it's tough because your age at that time, you don't really know that.
00:14:47.820
They were, they were a little shocked, actually.
00:14:51.140
I mean, they knew I was like a bit of a tomboy, but they never really saw this coming.
00:14:54.960
And, you know, they were, they were normal people and they didn't really know what to
00:15:02.680
And so they wanted to turn to the, the real experts or they thought, yeah, they, they saw
00:15:10.060
it as like a psychiatric issue, which they were right about that, but it wasn't treated
00:15:14.220
as such by my therapist or any physician who is involved in my transition.
00:15:20.580
When the alarm clock goes off in the morning and you open your eyes, is pain the first thing
00:15:26.020
It used to be for me, how I'm going to face another day of this for years.
00:15:30.300
I suffered every day from just debilitating pain that really focused on my hands.
00:15:40.520
And I, I didn't think I would be able to even do this, pick up a pen, write a note, write
00:15:51.640
And I thought I lost them forever until I started taking relief factor.
00:15:58.340
I took it and I was actually surprised that it worked.
00:16:02.860
Uh, you know, it's all natural and blah, blah, blah.
00:16:16.580
And about 70% of the people who try it go on to order more month after month.
00:16:21.020
So maybe this is for you to relieve factor.com call 800 for relief, 800, the number for relief.
00:16:30.000
Um, when you went to the doctor, I'm assuming that your mom and dad had the best intents
00:16:36.420
and just don't, they want you safe and they want you happy.
00:16:40.120
And they loved me and they wanted to figure out what was going on.
00:16:43.320
Well, I felt this way and that was just never figured out.
00:16:47.740
Unfortunately, it just went straight to, oh yeah, she's a boy.
00:16:51.020
And behind my back, they actually told my parents that if I wasn't allowed to basically do what
00:16:56.300
I wanted in my transition, that I would be at risk of suicide.
00:17:14.160
So the doctors, they didn't probe on what is happening to you in your life.
00:17:30.240
And there is very little psychological evaluation.
00:17:35.580
I did have some stuff going on at home and at school, but I mean, it was just never really
00:17:42.060
It was never really considered as having any relation to my gender dysphoria.
00:17:46.740
I was diagnosed with gender dysphoria, I think by a, I don't think it was by the first therapist
00:17:51.500
I saw because he never really did anything actually.
00:17:54.200
But, um, I think it was, um, I think it was a gender specialist and, um, you know, all the research I did on transitioning before and like the, even like the, um, the medical professionals who I saw basically presented transition as the only means of treating dysphoria.
00:18:19.160
It was basically just, so if you believe you're a boy, then you're actually the boy.
00:18:25.140
So I, I understand, and you can go into this or not, it's your choice, but some of the issues like at school were, you were, um, some boy, uh, was quite inappropriate with you.
00:18:45.280
And that, that made you so uncomfortable and you didn't want to be a girl.
00:18:51.820
Part of that was you didn't want to be a girl because of that.
00:18:55.180
Um, this actually happened while I was early in my medical transition, a little down the line before I started to, before I started.
00:19:02.940
But I mean, a lot of my, a lot of my girlfriends and, um, some of the women I knew growing up had like a history of like being victims of sexual assault or stalking or abuse or rape.
00:19:17.860
And like all these stories I would hear made me really afraid of eventually experiencing that for myself.
00:19:24.240
And from a young age, I had a really bad fear of like being assaulted or raped.
00:19:30.440
And so when that happened, you started to bind your breasts.
00:19:35.040
And I was actually, it is a little unusual because at that point I was, um, I was several months on testosterone and blockers.
00:19:43.620
It's usually most trans identified women, um, will start binding long before they start, um, like the medical process.
00:19:52.920
But I mean, I wore kind of like loose shirts and I was at the time, maybe like a, like a B cup or so.
00:20:00.000
So I didn't think that like my chest was very noticeable.
00:20:02.460
But, um, that incident where he, the boy who was bullying me, groped me, um, made me very conscious of the appearance of my breasts.
00:20:14.300
And I wanted to hide them from the world forever.
00:20:25.100
Did they ask probing questions that would have gotten you there?
00:20:28.040
Um, they probably have, but I never really, I never really spoke up about it because, um.
00:20:37.760
Yeah, that, and I kind of just told myself, you know, I was, I was trying to become a boy and I was like, I just told myself to man up basically.
00:20:43.880
And I downplayed the incident in my head and I didn't really realize just how it affected me.
00:20:47.260
But also, I knew that at the time I wouldn't really be able to speak out about it because I, if I told my parents, then they would bring it up to the, to the school, the, the school office.
00:20:58.200
And I know the school would probably just give the kid a slap on the wrist and he would maybe be suspended for a few days and then come back and maybe do something worse to me.
00:21:12.260
Today, I mean, when I first saw, uh, Bruce Jenner, I mean, I grew up when he was an Olympian, when I saw him tell his story and before, was it before or right after he became Caitlin?
00:21:26.540
I thought, I can't, I, I feel so horrible that he spent his whole life feeling like that.
00:21:47.600
I mean, I don't, you know, Bruce Jenner, Caitlyn Jenner, whatever, whatever, it doesn't affect me.
00:21:54.100
Um, but I don't know what the compassionate thing is.
00:22:04.720
I think until you've become an adult and you've settled, I don't think if I would have made decisions on anything, I, if I would have had a tattoo, I probably had a Popeye tattoo on my face today.
00:22:20.860
You know, you just don't make good decisions at that time.
00:22:32.000
You have to wait until the individual is an adult and preferably a fully developed adult.
00:22:38.080
Um, but they, they'll, they'll say to you, well, you will, yeah, but there's no puberty blockers.
00:22:45.720
They can't, if they miss that window, then they miss it forever.
00:22:51.860
I mean, I know a lot of people who have transitioned well into their adulthood, like, uh, like Buck Angel and Sarah Higdon and a few others.
00:22:59.840
And they're pretty satisfied with their transitions.
00:23:04.280
There's, there shouldn't be a rush to make things, make kids do things at an age where they're known to make rash decisions.
00:23:14.320
So gender affirming care is what you received, right?
00:23:19.280
But it wasn't really affirming anything other than my delusion.
00:23:25.300
I mean, I genuinely believe that I was a boy, but that couldn't possibly be true because I was born, I was born female and sex is an immutable trait.
00:23:37.340
But they'll tell you that sex and gender are different.
00:23:43.700
That's, that's where the argument kind of falls apart.
00:23:47.040
But there's, there's a lot of places where it falls apart, actually.
00:23:54.540
And they say like, there's, they say that gender is like, I mean, they say all sorts of things about it.
00:24:00.500
Like it's, uh, it's like in the brain and it's immutable, but also that it's like this detached entity from the body that somehow determines what you, who you are.
00:24:18.260
Um, okay, so you had this gender affirming care.
00:24:25.080
You had parents who were lied to and were just, I mean, I honestly, I don't know what to do as a parent.
00:24:32.860
I don't want to do, all I want to know is, is my child happy and healthy and how can I help them navigate?
00:24:50.700
Um, and so you start taking the, the blockers and everything.
00:24:56.800
What is that like to take the blockers and then to take testosterone?
00:25:03.780
So I'd say the, the amount of time between, um, getting like the dysphoria diagnosis and actually getting like the prescriptions and then starting on the blockers and the testosterone was really, it was only a matter of months.
00:25:21.780
It was only a few months after that I started that I, that I talked to my gender specialist and I was like, I want to, I want to go the medical route.
00:25:30.060
I want to start taking testosterone and become more, yeah, more like my real self, this image of myself that I had in my head.
00:25:39.020
Um, the first endocrinologist I was referred to actually had, um, he said, no, he did not allow me to go on these treatments because he said that there would be concerns for my brain development because I was so young.
00:25:53.560
He doesn't, he didn't really know like how that might affect like my cognitive and emotional development going forward.
00:26:12.240
He's probably been fired or had to resign by now for doing that.
00:26:16.140
Honestly, did you saw the doctor in California, right?
00:26:19.860
Guarantee he's, he's either, um, silenced himself or he is, uh, no longer working.
00:26:27.320
And it shouldn't be that way, but have you reached out to him?
00:26:35.900
That would have been, especially if he's really struggling to know that somebody.
00:26:40.500
I mean, there's a lot of doctors in the situation who want to speak out, but they just can't.
00:26:50.940
And I don't know if that's scarier or the doctors that truly believe this.
00:27:01.840
But, um, it was very easy to just get referred to another endocrinologist who, after like two or three appointments gave me and my mom the consent forms and like the side effect forms to sign off on.
00:27:13.380
Um, and two months after that was when I think I was given my first blocker shot.
00:27:20.200
And then, and what, did you feel anything when that came in?
00:27:24.560
Did you, were any changes happening to you or is that just stopping progress?
00:27:30.040
Um, I mean, it stopped the natural development of the sex hormones in my body.
00:27:36.060
Um, that caused just a few side effects, um, which I was informed of.
00:27:45.040
Um, no, I'm not sure because, um, well, all is on it while I was on them alone without the testosterone because I had, you know, after all the sex hormones were like flushed out of my body, I just felt kind of depressed.
00:28:03.520
It was like, I was waking up basically waiting for the first testosterone shot every day.
00:28:08.760
But, um, after a while, because it basically puts the body into a state of artificial menopause.
00:28:16.760
I started experiencing hot flashes, which were really bad.
00:28:20.100
Like I couldn't wear like pants or warm clothes in the winter and they would make my whole body itchy.
00:28:25.020
And whenever, whenever they would come up, it was really hard to focus on.
00:28:30.240
Oh, my wife has gone through it and she, it was, it's hell.
00:28:35.840
No, 13 year olds should have to go through that.
00:28:38.860
So then you get your first shot of testosterone.
00:28:43.860
It was, I mean, for lack of better words, it was euphoric.
00:28:49.160
I mean, I finally had like, I had my energy back and, you know, I started, it was like this big milestone for me.
00:28:58.880
And, you know, after, after some time, after maybe a week, I started noticing my voice was starting to drop.
00:29:04.500
And after a few weeks to a few months, my features started to get more, more squarish, more masculine.
00:29:13.460
And my hair started growing thicker and I started growing some muscle.
00:29:21.000
Did you feel differently or did you just see things differently?
00:29:26.000
When, I mean, I'm sorry, this is probably a stupid question, but I've never talked to anybody who's done that.
00:29:33.580
So do you, did you, when you got your energy back, was it a different kind of energy or did it feel like when you felt good as a girl?
00:29:42.960
I mean, it's kind of hard to gauge how much of it was just like a.
00:29:50.300
I would say it's probably a little bit of both.
00:29:55.260
Maybe it's kind of an exaggeration to say it like this, but sort of like a stimulant effect.
00:29:58.480
I mean, it gives you more energy, more drive to do things.
00:30:04.780
We are dealing with so many massive issues and we're not.
00:30:10.660
I mean, I'm so honored that Chloe would sit with us and talk about this today, but this is not a normal conversation to have, even though it's such a huge part of what's happening in America.
00:30:27.220
We didn't talk about it for a long time and we need to.
00:30:32.980
We need to do everything we can to protect life.
00:30:36.320
It's a very dark place that I think the progressives are taking us.
00:30:41.360
But there is a light and that light is pre-born.
00:30:48.140
Pre-born introduces mothers who are considering abortions to save their baby.
00:30:56.580
Once moms hear the heartbeat and see the life, 80% of the time they will choose life.
00:31:04.500
Pre-born pregnancy centers are positioned in top abortion areas where most abortions still take place.
00:31:12.000
They love and support these mothers with maternity clothes, diapers, counseling.
00:31:17.180
And they do this and so much more for like up to two years.
00:31:21.000
Pre-born is completely dependent on you, the pro-life community.
00:31:37.040
And now through your match, your gift will be doubled.
00:31:39.820
100% of your donation will go towards saving babies.
00:31:56.480
Or you can read more about it and donate securely at preborn.com slash Glenn.
00:32:11.180
It was the second half of my eighth grade year.
00:32:24.180
This is like now and at the height of everybody saying, oh, celebrate and accept.
00:32:33.160
Um, I mean, I had some friends online who would like celebrate like every, basically every
00:32:43.160
big milestone in my transition in like, kind of, I guess you'd say like affirmed me, but
00:32:53.440
I wouldn't say that they celebrated my transition specifically, but, um.
00:33:00.780
Did you have, did, did you get that feeling when you thought, wow, these people are doing
00:33:06.680
this and they're popular and they're happy and they're happy and I want to do that, that
00:33:14.620
Um, when I was in, when I was in eighth grade, I was, you know, I was, I was still in middle
00:33:19.420
And so people, the people around me weren't really the nicest at school.
00:33:23.420
I don't think, I don't think girls until maybe, well, I don't know when, until at least, you
00:33:33.140
Um, some girls didn't treat me very nicely when I was transitioning.
00:33:37.360
They would, um, they would ask some legitimate questions, but other times they would just like
00:33:42.940
And, um, I mean, it kind of was like an outcast amongst my, my peers.
00:34:06.160
But I, I made, I made some friends who were, who were boys and they're, they're fun to be
00:34:09.900
And I made some pretty good friendships with them.
00:34:22.080
Um, by the time I got into high school, I was on testosterone for long enough that, um,
00:34:28.140
I mean, I passed as the opposite sex pretty well.
00:34:31.580
My voice was deep enough and I didn't really have to worry about anything other than like
00:34:37.780
Um, but, um, throughout high school, nobody actually really knew that I was transgender
00:34:44.420
Um, so you go to a bigger high school or a different high school.
00:34:53.140
So, I mean, some people who I know I knew in like elementary and middle school knew, and
00:34:58.780
then I was outed behind my back a few times to like a small number of people, but nobody
00:35:11.600
But I mean, considering my age at the time, I was only like 15, 14, 15, 16.
00:35:17.520
So it was kind of just like, maybe he's like a late bloomer or something.
00:35:20.260
So are you still binding your breast at this point or what point do you decide to have
00:35:25.140
So, um, I'd say about halfway into my sophomore year was when I decided that I wanted to get
00:35:33.440
I was, I was 15 at the time and, um, by, by this point I had been binding for maybe
00:35:40.960
And, you know, I was, I was really sick of it because binders are basically like these
00:35:46.020
compression devices that cover the torso and in the chest area, it was like a, there's
00:35:50.940
like a, like compression fabric to basically flatten the appearance of the breasts.
00:35:56.580
And some, some people get like really bad, like breasts, rib, back pain from it.
00:36:02.240
I never really, can I, can I tell you that I think this to me is akin in a child, it is
00:36:09.360
akin to when the Chinese used to bind women's feet.
00:36:19.220
Yeah, I, I never really experienced like pain, but I did have like discomfort from, from it
00:36:27.480
like basically sticking to me whenever I would like work out or like swim.
00:36:31.420
And I didn't realize this until after my breasts were gone, but they actually deformed my ribs
00:36:38.560
Um, I think it's mostly because I was, I was still growing when I was using one.
00:36:42.940
Um, they basically pushed the breast into the rib cage and I wasn't like large chest or
00:36:49.480
I was, I was rather small and I had a, I had a very small build and it fit well and it's
00:36:57.660
Is that going to affect any of your internal organs in the years to come?
00:37:06.780
So when you went in for a double mastectomy, was there anyone who said, real problem, don't
00:37:22.340
No, there wasn't really like any psychological evaluation, which, um, before in the months
00:37:30.740
before I got my mastectomy, actually, I had like a, I had like a note from one of my doctors
00:37:36.600
to my school, basically saying that I would be taking leave because I was in a lot of distress.
00:37:42.400
Um, over the course of my transition, um, I actually developed more psychiatric issues
00:37:50.760
Um, you know, I was, I kind of thought that like, I was really a boy and by, by doing this,
00:37:58.660
I would become my, I would become at peace in myself.
00:38:06.000
Um, but it just, it just tore me apart more and more.
00:38:12.440
Was there a period of time where you thought this is going to be great and it is, I'm transitioning
00:38:21.080
I was very sure until the end, until after my, my, my surgery.
00:38:25.180
And so when did the, the doubts start to come in just after the surgery?
00:38:30.640
Um, it's kind of complicated because I mean, right after the surgery, like the moment I
00:38:37.360
woke up to the moments, the first few days at home post-op, I was, I was pretty happy.
00:38:49.820
It was like a deep muscle soreness, but the pain from the, the pain medications, um, it
00:38:55.560
caused me like some really bad digestive issues and I, I had to go off of them within like
00:39:00.460
That was the most physically painful part about it.
00:39:05.580
Like I would, I wasn't allowed to like shower for a week basically just to protect like the,
00:39:11.920
But after I was like allowed to and I started bathing and I had to like take care of my,
00:39:17.660
my dressings and these big wounds on my chest, it was like, I can barely look at myself.
00:39:25.900
Like the thoughts of maybe this wasn't the right thing, um, didn't start until like a
00:39:34.000
while after though, because I did start feeling some grief, but I couldn't really identify what
00:39:39.640
the feeling was because it was like, I was so invested in this.
00:39:43.460
I was maybe like three or four years into transitioning at this point and like everybody around me knew
00:39:50.280
me as Leo and, um, you know, I didn't even look like a girl at this point anymore.
00:39:56.920
And it was just hard to think that it was the wrong, the wrong thing.
00:40:03.780
When people get deep into something, the hardest thing is to, to admit to yourself, oh, this,
00:40:13.840
That's one of the reasons why I said you're so amazingly brave.
00:40:19.720
Um, so you start to have these feelings of, oh, were you longing to be a girl?
00:40:30.960
Were you realizing that it's, this is a lie that, you know, I'm going to be happy being
00:40:37.580
this was a lie or what was it that you were feeling?
00:40:41.640
At first it was like, wow, I really miss like looking feminine, being pretty.
00:40:47.920
And, um, I would like secretly, I was so embarrassed about it.
00:40:52.440
I shouldn't have been because, you know, I was actually, I'm actually a girl and there's
00:40:58.780
But behind my parents' back, I basically bought like some makeup and like skirts and stuff.
00:41:06.380
And like, I would just like, kind of like stay in my room and just like play video games
00:41:09.940
while, while wearing this stuff and not really go out like that.
00:41:12.940
But I sort of, I started to withdraw a little bit from like the people around me and my surroundings.
00:41:21.520
I would just kind of just be, just stay in my room, like play video games all day and just draw and just be in my own world
00:41:31.380
I didn't want to live in a reality where I looked like a boy and I, I felt stuck like that.
00:41:35.380
So, um, eventually my grade performance started to, started to drop.
00:41:40.680
Um, I mean, this is around the time that, uh, COVID restrictions started to come into place
00:41:45.960
and they started doing like the distance learning model.
00:41:48.860
And, um, so that, that, that made, that made it a lot harder for me.
00:41:54.420
And I was kind of, I was kind of just stuck in this headspace because I couldn't really like,
00:42:00.540
I couldn't really go out and like see my, my peers or anything.
00:42:06.200
So I was stuck on, yeah, I was stuck in my room, stuck in the internet all day.
00:42:10.360
And, um, eventually I stopped paying attention to my classes and, um, basically just withdrew from the world as a whole.
00:42:19.020
And my, my parents decided to take me out of school and put me into an online only program.
00:42:24.400
Um, um, and during the second, um, the second quarter of the online program, I was taking a psychology class
00:42:34.840
and there was like a, there were some, some chapters on like child development and, um, parenthood.
00:42:42.900
And, um, there was like a, like a lesson on how like breastfeeding and physical contact
00:42:56.000
plays a role in, um, in the bond between mother and child and then eventually goes on to affect
00:43:03.960
like child development, like psychological, emotional development, problem solving.
00:43:08.800
And I realized that like, I was told before my surgery that I would lose my ability to breastfeed,
00:43:16.760
but I didn't really think this was important because, you know, I, I saw myself as a man
00:43:27.100
I didn't know what parenthood would look like for me because I wasn't thinking about that.
00:43:29.780
I was thinking about like getting my schoolwork done and fitting in, but.
00:43:33.840
But when that hits you, that I, I can't chestfeed, I can't breastfeed a child if I want to someday.
00:43:49.780
And I realized like, not only did I lose the ability to naturally feed my kid, but I also
00:43:57.400
could, it's so much more than just feeding them.
00:44:00.720
Like it plays a role in, in, it's an important part of, of the bond between a mother and her children.
00:44:08.640
And I didn't know this, but when I realized that I took this away from myself, I felt like a monster.
00:44:20.580
I was probably at, at rock bottom at that point.
00:44:23.140
And, and I just spent a few weeks just at my absolute lowest.
00:44:29.700
And it wasn't until like, maybe like two weeks later after I finished that lesson that I was like,
00:44:44.120
And, and it's, it's, it's, it's just made everything worse.
00:44:57.920
I don't know if I'll be able to safely carry a child to term because I was so young when I started
00:45:03.760
medicalization, but, um, that night when I made the realization, it was like, it was kind of like
00:45:18.420
Um, but even, even scarier this time, cause like me and my parents and my family were so
00:45:26.220
invested in this and it was, it was all for nothing.
00:45:33.700
And I couldn't even bring myself to talk to my mom face to face about it.
00:45:38.500
So I, I, I texted her and I, I texted a friend about it and I, I called, I called him, but
00:45:44.420
it took a while for me to be able to have that conversation face to face.
00:45:49.420
And, you know, sometimes my mom would like check up on me, like asking me if I was okay
00:45:53.440
coming to my, my room to like bring me food and stuff.
00:45:57.020
But it, um, it took a while to really, I guess, get the ball rolling and figure out where to
00:46:07.920
Um, I stopped taking testosterone almost immediately and, um, that impacted my health quite a bit
00:46:14.340
I, um, because of the deficit of sex hormones in my body, I got, I was like really, um, I
00:46:23.560
was having really bad, like mood swings and I was very prone to like emotional outbursts
00:46:30.480
I wasn't very nice and I did, I did lose a few friends, all of them actually, every friend
00:46:37.060
that I had at school and, um, I lost quite a few.
00:46:41.840
You know, you're, you know, all of this is okay, right?
00:46:46.200
You know that, you know that this is, this was not you being a monster.
00:46:54.400
This was not you, you know, this was you as a kid making decisions that honestly shouldn't
00:47:03.440
have been, in my opinion, shouldn't have been, um, made, shouldn't have been options for you,
00:47:10.120
but not to blame anybody else, but you know that anything that happened, you, you can release
00:47:19.860
Um, but it, it, I got very sickly afterward as well.
00:47:24.620
I dropped like 25 pounds within a matter of two months and I was prone to getting ill,
00:47:30.980
um, and, um, testosterone had some side effects for me.
00:47:39.160
Um, maybe after like a year to a year and a half, I started developing like some, some urinary
00:47:44.220
tract issues and by going off testosterone, it actually worsened for a little bit.
00:47:54.580
Um, no, I just stopped taking testosterone, stopped taking testosterone, basically had to
00:48:01.060
And, um, I did get my period about two months after the fact, which I think I'm, I'm very,
00:48:06.380
I'm very lucky for it because sometimes it never comes back.
00:48:10.520
They came very soon and, um, they've been very regular since, which is a miracle.
00:48:16.560
I think because when, when I started the, I was so young that they hadn't even regulated
00:48:24.600
Um, so I guess there must've been at least some development having gone on my body somehow.
00:48:32.220
There was a story this week, uh, that came from the Netherlands, the Dutch are, are buying
00:48:41.300
farmers out or just pulling their property away.
00:48:45.920
Um, because the farmers, um, aren't going to be able to grow anything or have branches anymore
00:48:54.260
because of the, uh, the nitrogen that is now being outlawed, you know, because of the world
00:49:01.320
economic forum and global warming, this is coming to America.
00:49:05.560
This is a very big deal that people just don't understand what's coming.
00:49:13.240
Um, I started looking for a company that would support ranches like mine.
00:49:19.560
I luckily I, I don't depend on ranching as my business.
00:49:22.880
Um, however, there are people in my community ranchers who are barely holding on because they
00:49:32.540
And if the government keeps twisting the knife, they're out.
00:49:38.720
They'll all be big industrial farms, or you will, uh, you'll have a rancher that just can't
00:49:52.060
I want you to go to good ranchers and look at what they have.
00:49:56.620
They have seafood, they have chicken, they have beef, and they keep the prices low.
00:50:01.520
And 100% of that meat comes from a good rancher here in America.
00:50:11.100
You're going to save $35 off your delicious gift of meat, either to somebody you love or
00:50:20.540
Your gift will go further, um, at, uh, uh, at good ranchers because they, they don't
00:50:28.960
Give the best good ranchers.com promo code Glenn.
00:50:36.920
Um, I mean, it's not exactly where I want it to be.
00:50:40.680
Um, some of my old friends really strongly disagree with, um, with what I'm doing now.
00:50:47.640
And, um, they haven't really been transitioned.
00:50:52.900
I have a friend who, um, is biologically female, right?
00:51:00.080
Like, like me, but I'm transitioning to like a male identity.
00:51:03.820
And so is it, is it because you've betrayed or you, what, what is the problem?
00:51:12.300
Yeah, um, I will, I had a few friends before who were transgender, both online and, excuse
00:51:19.340
me, in person, but, um, they, a lot of them, they cut ties with me or they started like,
00:51:26.820
um, like harassing me because, um, I mean, I think there's a lot of factors like jealousy
00:51:36.620
Um, a lot of them say things like, you don't deserve parents who loved you enough to let
00:51:42.740
you, let you transition or you, you were 13, you weren't, you weren't a baby.
00:51:47.460
You knew exactly what you were doing to yourself.
00:51:55.740
They're, they're, I find that a lot of them are very, very stunted in, in a few ways.
00:52:04.380
And so they don't really understand just the, the weight of the, the situation, unfortunately.
00:52:10.820
And they're going, almost all of them are going through their own thing right now.
00:52:16.860
Like no, no mentally healthy person would be saying these things.
00:52:20.240
Because they're, they're afraid and they're, they're struggling themselves.
00:52:28.900
And seeing me going down, having been, having gone down this route, further down this route
00:52:34.340
than they have, being jealous of that, but also seeing that I was, after so much time and
00:52:41.800
That's, I think that's, that's terrifying for them.
00:52:43.940
And so there's a lot of mixed emotions and they can't really, they can't really handle
00:52:50.920
But if it truly is about accepting people who, for who they are, you know, who I was when
00:52:57.140
I was 20 is not who I am today, you know, and we grow, we change, we're different, we learn.
00:53:05.880
And nobody really talks about this, but the way you feel about transition will change over
00:53:10.540
the course of one year, two years, five years, a decade, several decades.
00:53:16.840
And there's kind of a honeymoon phase with each, with each, with each stage of, with each
00:53:25.840
And I didn't really know about this until I went through all of it.
00:53:29.420
And I'm just, I'm just trying to, to warn them now.
00:53:32.820
They're all, they're all adults and I can't really, their parents can't really do anything
00:53:36.420
about them transitioning, but I just, I'm worried for them and I don't want them to end
00:53:41.700
up the, the same way that I am now, or if not, if not worse.
00:53:46.740
What, what do you wish would have happened if you had to replay it and you'd be like,
00:53:59.860
I shouldn't have been allowed to medically transition at all.
00:54:03.780
Um, they, I wish there was a more thorough assessment and more trust between me and my
00:54:14.580
healthcare provider, because there are some things that I couldn't really trust the adults
00:54:19.160
with, unfortunately, like, like the groping incident.
00:54:25.820
How do you mean you couldn't trust an adult with that?
00:54:28.100
I just felt like, like speaking about it would just make the situation worse.
00:54:33.200
And maybe that was kind of on me, but I don't know.
00:54:39.580
Growing up, I just kind of had like a, sort of like a mistrust of the adults and even some
00:55:07.660
Until, until they're, until they're an adult and they're at a point in time when they're
00:55:12.200
in a mental state that, that is healthy and they're able to be informed and able to consent.
00:55:22.920
When you first go through puberty, it is confusing already.
00:55:30.040
What's the most compassionate thing a parent can do?
00:55:38.240
What, what, what should I, if you were my daughter, what should I do to show support and compassion?
00:55:46.840
I mean, really the best thing to do is to show them love without affirming the delusion.
00:55:56.540
Tell them that they, they're not a boy and they never will be, but you accept them as they
00:56:02.040
are and there's nothing that they need to change about themselves.
00:56:04.760
But if you want to wear boy clothing, I don't care.
00:56:10.820
But calling, you would have, when you were 15, if you were a friend of my daughter and
00:56:17.740
you came over to my house and they would have introduced you as Leo, I would have called
00:56:28.840
But if I, but if I did, I still would go, Hey Leo, but I would tell my daughter, Leo
00:56:35.000
is, is not a boy, but unless I knew you will, I wouldn't say that to you, but I would tell
00:56:53.000
Leo, I, I'm happy for Leo if Leo is happy, but here's the truth.
00:56:59.220
That's, that's not compassionate in today's society.
00:57:03.240
But there's, it's only the truth and there's nothing wrong with telling the truth.
00:57:09.180
Um, what do you say to people who say no pronouns, whatever you pick, I have to say that because
00:57:32.220
I, I refer to people by the name and the pronouns they, they want me to, but unless they go out
00:57:41.940
And like, for instance, I've never had a problem with Caitlyn Jenner.
00:57:51.180
You know, when a child or, I'm sorry, I'm just getting to the point where 25 years old
00:57:58.980
But when somebody who hasn't really gone through life yet decides I'm Bambi, a deer, I have
00:58:12.100
But if you're 50 years old and you're, I'm no, I'm a furry animal.
00:58:18.440
It's, it's interesting that we're allowing kids and young adults to make these decisions
00:58:26.700
that affect their overall health and their fertility when, I mean, a lot of people don't even know
00:58:33.300
that they want to have kids until they're well into their thirties or forties.
00:58:36.020
I would have, if 15 years old, if, if a vasectomy was a thing, so I never had kids, count me
00:58:44.620
Um, I remember the endocrinologist, the one who affirmed me, um, asked me like, do you
00:58:50.900
know that this treatment may affect your, your fertility?
00:58:54.060
I was like, oh, I don't want to have kids because I was 13.
00:59:13.620
Don't, don't tell me anything that you shouldn't, I don't want to make it worse for you, but do
00:59:21.760
Um, I mean, I haven't been like recognized in public, but it might be getting to the
00:59:29.400
I mean, I have, I have old friends in my area who strongly disagree with me and they're
00:59:41.620
And, and I mean, all over, all over the country, there's, there's people like that who, you
00:59:49.680
I mean, I get, I get really, really hateful, really violent threats sometimes.
00:59:54.840
I had somebody make two accounts on Twitter just to tell me that they were making like
01:00:00.340
a, like a sex doll out of me, basically out of my image.
01:00:08.160
And some people like threatened, threatened violence or like threatened to, to kill me or
01:00:12.260
assault me just, just for speaking out and giving my peace.
01:00:31.060
Uh, well, adult just means fully developed physically, mentally, and human.
01:00:45.820
I don't think I'll have to explain that, but, um, female just means that you produce or your
01:00:52.140
body is, um, centered around the production of the large gamete, the, the ova, the eggs.
01:01:00.840
And just because you can't produce it doesn't mean for reasons like menopause or being too
01:01:07.000
young or having some sort of condition doesn't make you, doesn't make you not female.
01:01:15.020
Um, if you could go back and talk to your 11 year old self and, and really have her
01:01:28.360
listen, try to put yourself where you were, where you thought you knew, what would you
01:01:40.400
I feel like I would have a lot to say, but I think the, one of the most, one of the important
01:01:45.840
things would be that, I mean, it's in such an image oriented society, it's kind of, and
01:01:56.100
especially with the advent of social media, it's really hard for young girls to really
01:02:01.540
But I mean, your worth is so much more than your looks.
01:02:07.300
Um, I would tell her to spend a little less time off the, off of the internet and social
01:02:18.880
media and go out a little bit more, maybe play a few sports to really focus on, on something
01:02:26.840
other than my body and the internet and, um, just to, it was really hard to make friends
01:02:40.100
at the school I was at, but I could have been a little closer with my family.
01:02:43.820
I feel like I would have been a lot happier if I was.
01:02:52.700
Your daughter or your son comes home and says, I don't know what I am, but I think I'm in
01:03:03.700
I mean, I think the conversation should start with, um, trying to get to understand each
01:03:12.500
other and letting your child know that you love them, but that there's, there's absolutely
01:03:19.720
nothing wrong with them, that there's no such thing as being born in the wrong body and
01:03:26.540
But, but as a parent, it's really important to get down to the bottom of why, why they're
01:03:32.520
feeling such a way and where they got the idea from and basically going from there.
01:03:38.740
Chances are you might have to restrict their social media usage or take away their phones
01:03:45.340
Boy, I tell you, in some states, California, you could be a gender denier and you'd have your
01:03:54.280
Yeah, I, I actually know a few parents who have had their, who lost all custody of their
01:04:06.820
They're absolutely heroes because they fight for their kids.
01:04:16.180
You are, you came in and you smiled and you, there are times that I can see deep sadness
01:04:34.800
Just a reminder, I'd love you to rate and subscribe to the podcast and pass this on to a friend