The Glenn Beck Program - Ep 168 ｜ 'The Only Jesus Show My Kids Will Actually Watch' ｜ Dallas Jenkins

00:00:00.000 Today's guest is the creator, the co-writer, the executive producer, and the director of The Chosen.

00:00:07.680 I think it's the best TV show on there, online, on television.

00:00:15.860 It is by far the best story of Jesus Christ I've seen in my lifetime.

00:00:21.260 Because it's so incredibly different, and you see the story in a way you've not seen before.

00:00:28.100 There is no shortage of hokey Jesus movies that somehow find a way to be too preachy or botch the greatest story ever told.

00:00:38.720 Usually a PG version that completely skips over the violence that Christ endured, or just the general living condition.

00:00:47.720 Just the white robes. I mean, I do believe it was dusty, at least.

00:00:53.260 If you're Mel Gibson, maybe you miss the opposite reason, and you show the brutality of it all, but it also kind of misses the kindness.

00:01:07.760 The Chosen breaks both of these.

00:01:10.580 It has a chance to, because it's episodic, has two years going on its third season now.

00:01:17.800 It does something that no other depiction of Christ has ever done.

00:01:21.620 It shows him laughing and smiling, joking, dancing.

00:01:26.260 But what makes The Chosen so impressive is that it is a great piece of art in the same way that, you know, the Sopranos,

00:01:39.200 the Godfather is a good piece of art, kind of the opposite of those, but it's beautiful.

00:01:48.500 It began with a short video on Facebook and then grew into the largest ever crowdfunding campaign for a media project.

00:01:55.860 It aired online for free using a pay-it-forward model, an app for The Chosen, skyrocketed in popularity on both iOS and Android.

00:02:07.540 And around that time, I had today's guest on the podcast just a few days, I think it was before Easter.

00:02:15.340 That Sunday, 750,000 people live-streamed the season two premiere.

00:02:21.280 From there, The Chosen has grown exponentially, from streaming on YouTube and Facebook to ranking fourth in shows searched on Roku.

00:02:32.300 Before long, it had half a billion episode views from all around the world.

00:02:37.660 It hasn't even been translated yet.

00:02:39.940 It got picked up by NBC's Peacock and Prime Video, and earlier this year, it was added to Netflix.

00:02:46.700 Season three debuted last month in over 2,000 theaters worldwide.

00:02:54.520 It had, I believe, 14 million tuning in.

00:03:02.320 It will be dubbed into 100 languages, subtitled into 500, and there are still four seasons to go.

00:03:10.540 This unparalleled growth is miraculous, and it comes at a time when intellectuals are pushing the narrative that Christianity is dead and atheism is our future.

00:03:22.780 As the Apostle Paul wrote,

00:03:24.800 The message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to those who are being saved, it is the power of God.

00:03:33.520 The Chosen is a much-needed reminder that Christ is alive and encouraging us to walk with Him in the newness of life.

00:03:43.580 Today on the Glenn Beck Podcast, welcome, Dallas Jenkins.

00:03:48.500 What a perfect message for today's podcast.

00:03:51.480 I want to talk to you about pre-born.

00:03:53.060 You know, in Luke chapter 1, it's not the Jesus' birth story.

00:03:59.980 It's actually the story of John the Baptist and his miracle birth.

00:04:05.020 He was the one that came before the Lord to till the ground and prepare the way.

00:04:12.320 If you believe in that and you believe the Bible, it just continually repeats.

00:04:19.960 It just shows us patterns to look for.

00:04:23.060 I think that means that the children that are being born now and in these days may very possibly be the John the Baptist preparing the way.

00:04:37.960 I think there's going to be lots of them.

00:04:40.120 That's why it is so crucial that we pay attention to what is happening with abortion.

00:04:49.960 All of these babies.

00:04:51.880 Do you know this audience has saved 40, 45 or 46,000 babies?

00:04:57.960 You name them.

00:04:59.400 They live today because this audience sent in some money so that these women could have ultrasounds.

00:05:06.940 And that was the key to saving their life.

00:05:10.440 47,000.

00:05:12.660 Holy cow.

00:05:13.640 For $28 right now, you can rescue a baby's life.

00:05:19.160 $140 sponsors five ultrasounds.

00:05:22.060 That could be five babies.

00:05:24.160 And now through a match, your gift will be doubled.

00:05:26.940 100% of your donation is going to go towards saving babies.

00:05:30.740 Our goal is to save 50 on the blaze, 50 on my program.

00:05:35.640 That's 100,000 babies.

00:05:38.840 Please dial pound 250.

00:05:41.280 Say the keyword baby.

00:05:42.540 That's pound 250.

00:05:44.040 Keyword baby.

00:05:45.120 Or donate securely at preborn.com slash Glenn.

00:05:50.260 Season three of The Chosen is out.

00:05:53.600 Here's the trailer.

00:05:55.640 You look troubled.

00:05:58.260 I am.

00:05:59.700 You're losing something.

00:06:01.840 I know what that's like.

00:06:02.880 What are you losing?

00:06:08.880 Time.

00:06:12.000 I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you.

00:06:20.620 Someone touched me.

00:06:23.120 If you are really the one who is to come, or should we look for someone else?

00:06:28.400 Go and tell John what you hear and see.

00:06:31.280 Who is it?

00:06:32.040 Where did we start?

00:06:34.280 It's him.

00:06:37.320 I'm Judas of Kerioth.

00:06:39.860 I have chosen you 12 as my apostles.

00:06:44.260 Don't feel any different?

00:06:45.860 I don't need you to feel anything to do great things.

00:06:50.720 What is stirring in your hearts,

00:06:53.040 in the middle of such division and unrest,

00:06:57.500 is Father God being revealed to you?

00:07:01.620 Come to me, all who labor and are heavy laden,

00:07:12.280 and I will give you rest.

00:07:13.920 Jesus, if you do not renounce your words,

00:07:28.540 we will have no choice but to follow the law of Moses.

00:07:32.960 Jesus, I am the law of Moses.

00:07:42.240 They're here for Jesus of Nazareth.

00:07:44.140 more valuable than gold,

00:07:46.780 more precious than rubies.

00:07:49.420 Force them out.

00:07:50.800 We are still grown.

00:07:52.360 everyone, then, who hears these words of mine

00:08:01.040 and does them

00:08:02.820 will be like a wise man

00:08:05.020 who built his house on the rock.

00:08:08.320 If I'm the one who caused their hunger,

00:08:11.820 I should be the one to feed them.

00:08:20.080 He who has ears to hear,

00:08:22.400 let him hear.

00:08:36.640 How are you, Dallas?

00:08:37.540 I'm good.

00:08:38.280 I'm glad to be here.

00:08:39.200 It's so good to have you.

00:08:41.360 You know, I was singing it before the interview.

00:08:43.500 I was singing about it yesterday,

00:08:45.820 and I thought,

00:08:47.720 I remember interviewing your father on Left Behind.

00:08:51.640 Yeah.

00:08:53.720 I don't think it's a stretch

00:08:56.020 to say in my lifetime,

00:09:01.080 because I wasn't born with Cecil B. DeMille.

00:09:03.480 Right.

00:09:03.740 But in my lifetime,

00:09:05.120 I believe you and your father

00:09:09.200 have preached the gospel

00:09:15.820 in a different way

00:09:17.380 and hit more people, probably,

00:09:19.900 than anybody else that I know.

00:09:21.820 You've done remarkable things.

00:09:27.880 You ever thought of that?

00:09:29.840 Do your dad ever think about that?

00:09:31.820 Well, my dad right now

00:09:32.920 is too busy finding new buttons for his shirt

00:09:36.060 because his shirts keep bursting.

00:09:38.660 He's very, very proud, obviously.

00:09:40.540 It's been fun to watch.

00:09:43.200 We occasionally sit there and go,

00:09:45.060 what is happening?

00:09:45.860 How is this possible that this would happen?

00:09:48.280 You know, it was 25 years ago

00:09:49.600 that the first Left Behind books came out.

00:09:52.160 And that's, what was it, 60 million copies?

00:09:55.040 Yeah, 60, 70 million, something like that.

00:09:56.720 Yeah.

00:09:56.800 For whatever reason,

00:09:59.480 we don't know this side of heaven, why,

00:10:02.780 but God seems to have chosen my dad

00:10:06.460 25 years ago and now me

00:10:08.340 to deliver the story of Jesus to the world

00:10:13.260 in a unique way

00:10:14.440 but that's still faithful

00:10:15.780 to the intentions of the scriptures.

00:10:18.580 And it's something that I'm,

00:10:22.180 I feel like I got a good front row seat

00:10:24.600 on the bus to watch it happen

00:10:26.560 but I, because I don't think

00:10:27.820 I'm responsible for it,

00:10:28.880 I just get a chance to watch it happen.

00:10:30.580 It's pretty cool.

00:10:32.320 It is, it's just the best Jesus prediction,

00:10:36.000 I mean, depiction I've ever seen.

00:10:38.400 It is a remarkable series

00:10:40.740 and the only Jesus thing

00:10:44.360 that my children will actually

00:10:46.040 sit down and watch with me.

00:10:47.640 It's so accessible.

00:10:49.600 The Jesus you picked to play Jesus

00:10:55.780 is so different than I think most Jesus,

00:11:02.080 you know, he looks different,

00:11:04.480 he talks differently

00:11:06.300 and why did you pick him?

00:11:09.440 It was about seven or eight years ago

00:11:10.980 when the Chosen actually first

00:11:13.480 had its birth pangs,

00:11:15.100 which was part of a big church

00:11:17.000 that I was part of in Chicago.

00:11:18.400 We had huge Good Friday services.

00:11:20.720 We would do,

00:11:21.840 every Good Friday we'd have

00:11:24.220 about seven or eight services,

00:11:26.000 several thousand people apiece would come

00:11:27.900 and I did a short film.

00:11:30.380 It was called The Two Thieves

00:11:31.460 and it was about the crucifixion

00:11:33.140 but from the perspective

00:11:34.020 of the two thieves on the cross

00:11:35.340 and I was casting the two thieves

00:11:38.080 who were the main characters.

00:11:39.120 Jesus doesn't show up in the short film

00:11:40.800 until the end

00:11:41.420 when they're on the cross

00:11:42.640 and they meet him.

00:11:43.300 And so Jonathan Rumi,

00:11:46.680 who now plays Jesus in The Chosen,

00:11:48.620 he auditioned for one of the thieves

00:11:49.980 and did a great job

00:11:51.160 but there were two other guys

00:11:52.020 who were really good

00:11:52.580 and the people who were auditioning

00:11:54.700 for Jesus were really bad

00:11:55.960 and I'm like,

00:11:57.460 I need a,

00:11:58.960 I said,

00:11:59.340 you know,

00:11:59.500 I know this is a supporting role

00:12:01.460 in this short film

00:12:02.520 but he's got to be good.

00:12:03.640 We need a good Jesus.

00:12:05.120 And I said,

00:12:05.460 that Jonathan guy

00:12:06.140 seemed to be,

00:12:06.960 you know,

00:12:07.200 seemed to have a good tenderness

00:12:08.240 about him

00:12:08.780 that I think would be interesting.

00:12:10.320 So he auditions for Jesus

00:12:12.220 for my little short film

00:12:13.600 and 10 seconds into it,

00:12:15.100 I saw what you see now.

00:12:17.420 Yeah, yeah.

00:12:18.120 Something,

00:12:19.140 there's something special.

00:12:20.260 Yeah.

00:12:20.620 And I was like,

00:12:21.260 It's kindness.

00:12:22.240 Yes,

00:12:22.600 but with masculinity.

00:12:24.080 Yes.

00:12:24.180 It's not like a weak,

00:12:26.020 Yes.

00:12:26.720 kind of passive,

00:12:27.780 wallflower kindness

00:12:29.080 that you sometimes see

00:12:30.200 in Jesus' portrayals

00:12:31.060 where he's so formal

00:12:31.880 and,

00:12:32.280 you know,

00:12:34.080 distant and soft.

00:12:37.640 So,

00:12:37.880 he's your best friend

00:12:39.020 and a fierce lion

00:12:40.320 at the same time.

00:12:41.140 Oh, yeah.

00:12:41.560 Yeah.

00:12:41.820 And as we say

00:12:42.720 in Chronicles of Narnia,

00:12:43.700 he's not a tame lion.

00:12:46.400 But,

00:12:47.400 all that to say,

00:12:49.420 we then,

00:12:50.360 I shot this short film,

00:12:51.420 it was in a rock quarry

00:12:52.640 in Illinois,

00:12:53.760 almost as cold

00:12:54.700 as it is in this studio

00:12:56.120 right now.

00:12:57.840 And,

00:12:58.320 he,

00:13:01.000 and there was about

00:13:02.280 five minutes

00:13:02.800 of screen time

00:13:03.800 where he's on the cross

00:13:04.880 and I'm just like,

00:13:05.600 my goodness,

00:13:06.640 we got to do more of this.

00:13:08.260 So,

00:13:08.480 each year,

00:13:09.120 each Good Friday,

00:13:10.140 I would bring him back

00:13:11.320 and we would do vignettes

00:13:12.780 and it was always,

00:13:13.880 short films or vignettes,

00:13:16.040 stories of Jesus,

00:13:18.220 but from different perspectives,

00:13:20.540 honoring the scriptures,

00:13:22.480 but seeing it

00:13:23.460 through different lens.

00:13:26.180 And,

00:13:26.460 that's where we were

00:13:27.120 kind of formulating,

00:13:28.060 I think,

00:13:28.960 some of,

00:13:29.280 we were finding it.

00:13:30.160 That was where we first,

00:13:31.060 I did a Jesus joke.

00:13:32.800 A couple,

00:13:33.180 a couple,

00:13:33.780 there was a short film

00:13:34.500 I did where

00:13:35.000 Jesus is with the disciples

00:13:36.640 and the disciples

00:13:37.500 are arm wrestling

00:13:38.160 and Andrew defeats Thaddeus,

00:13:42.340 which is a surprise

00:13:43.140 to the disciples

00:13:44.300 and one of the disciples

00:13:45.460 says,

00:13:45.680 I can't believe Andrew won

00:13:46.640 and Jesus says,

00:13:47.420 even I didn't see that coming.

00:13:49.400 And I saw,

00:13:50.720 when we showed

00:13:52.100 that short film

00:13:52.860 in the church,

00:13:54.980 the response

00:13:55.900 to Jesus telling a joke

00:13:57.440 and to being funny

00:13:59.060 and even a joke

00:14:00.380 about his own divinity,

00:14:01.260 the response

00:14:03.040 was this response

00:14:04.060 of like,

00:14:05.220 it was laughter,

00:14:06.320 but it was almost

00:14:06.780 like gratitude,

00:14:08.140 like,

00:14:08.620 oh,

00:14:09.420 and I had people

00:14:10.080 coming up to me

00:14:10.620 saying,

00:14:11.060 thank you for

00:14:11.880 showing Jesus

00:14:13.200 as someone

00:14:13.900 who would have fun.

00:14:15.400 He was a man.

00:14:16.180 Yeah,

00:14:16.640 who would hang

00:14:17.240 with his disciples

00:14:18.000 and that they would

00:14:18.880 make a joke like that.

00:14:20.460 And that's when

00:14:21.300 it was again,

00:14:21.860 like,

00:14:22.060 there's something there.

00:14:23.100 And so when it came time,

00:14:24.500 the opportunity came

00:14:25.200 to do the show,

00:14:26.340 obviously Jonathan

00:14:27.120 was the first one

00:14:28.000 that I cast.

00:14:28.660 his life has

00:14:30.900 had to have changed.

00:14:33.560 Oh.

00:14:33.760 I mean,

00:14:34.000 and it,

00:14:35.980 I mean,

00:14:37.480 it has to be

00:14:39.320 a heavy mantle

00:14:41.260 just walking around.

00:14:43.800 Yeah.

00:14:44.360 People will see him

00:14:45.560 and he's not Jesus,

00:14:47.420 but he is Jesus.

00:14:49.080 And I can't imagine

00:14:51.840 what his life is like.

00:14:53.120 He's,

00:14:53.580 he's wrestling with it.

00:14:54.740 I bet.

00:14:55.420 Yeah.

00:14:55.580 He,

00:14:56.040 he has a good,

00:14:58.120 centered head

00:14:59.860 on his shoulders.

00:15:00.700 He's a believer.

00:15:01.480 He knows

00:15:02.080 that this is not,

00:15:03.880 I mean,

00:15:04.160 I think the thing

00:15:04.780 that's most uncomfortable

00:15:05.800 for him

00:15:06.500 is the fact

00:15:08.140 that he's not Jesus.

00:15:09.520 And yet,

00:15:09.900 when he gets recognized,

00:15:12.200 the first thing

00:15:13.260 people say is Jesus.

00:15:14.500 You know,

00:15:15.040 now they know

00:15:16.040 he's not Jesus too.

00:15:17.620 But there are some people

00:15:18.900 for whom this portrayal

00:15:20.280 in the show

00:15:20.840 has changed their life.

00:15:22.300 I mean,

00:15:22.440 I experienced it.

00:15:23.160 When I,

00:15:23.340 when I get recognized

00:15:24.060 in an airport

00:15:24.580 or whatever,

00:15:25.180 people don't treat me

00:15:26.000 like a celebrity.

00:15:26.800 They,

00:15:27.880 they come up

00:15:28.320 and they start crying.

00:15:29.260 Yeah.

00:15:29.740 And they,

00:15:30.100 they just want to say,

00:15:30.840 thank you.

00:15:31.340 Yeah.

00:15:31.840 And they'll say,

00:15:32.480 my life has changed

00:15:33.620 or my relationship

00:15:34.500 with my dad

00:15:35.360 has changed

00:15:36.240 or my,

00:15:36.640 my kids

00:15:37.360 are for the first time,

00:15:39.280 you know,

00:15:40.220 considering Jesus

00:15:42.400 because of,

00:15:43.300 so now that's just me.

00:15:44.960 Think about it

00:15:45.680 when they meet the guy

00:15:46.480 who's playing him

00:15:47.200 and sometimes they,

00:15:48.200 they have a hard time.

00:15:49.880 Yeah,

00:15:50.100 I know.

00:15:50.860 And so he's,

00:15:52.560 he gets it.

00:15:53.380 He knows the difference

00:15:54.380 between him and Jesus,

00:15:55.280 but he does wrestle

00:15:56.180 with being recognized

00:15:57.840 and being treated

00:15:58.560 the way that he's treated

00:15:59.960 sometimes.

00:16:00.740 I know Jim Caviezel

00:16:01.600 quite well.

00:16:03.100 Have they talked?

00:16:04.460 They haven't.

00:16:05.500 They,

00:16:05.820 they have a lot of

00:16:07.000 mutual friends

00:16:08.660 and eventually

00:16:09.100 it's going to happen.

00:16:09.680 Jonathan has said

00:16:10.300 eventually the,

00:16:11.080 that we'll meet

00:16:11.760 and the meeting of Jesus.

00:16:12.880 Yeah.

00:16:13.240 And the world will collide.

00:16:15.320 There'll be some sort

00:16:16.300 of cosmic disaster perhaps

00:16:18.820 or,

00:16:19.060 or it'll be awesome.

00:16:20.260 But either way,

00:16:21.000 I know that played

00:16:21.760 heavy,

00:16:22.660 heavy on,

00:16:24.620 on Jim for a long time.

00:16:26.540 Yeah.

00:16:26.780 But I think that part of,

00:16:28.320 I think there is a difference

00:16:29.180 between us and the passion

00:16:30.020 of the Christ too.

00:16:30.720 And that I think there is

00:16:32.520 in,

00:16:33.120 in the chosen

00:16:33.720 because of the multi-season

00:16:35.140 format and the time

00:16:36.260 that we take,

00:16:37.100 I do think that Caviezel

00:16:39.140 might've experienced

00:16:39.960 even more of what

00:16:41.800 Jonathan is experiencing

00:16:42.800 because passion of the Christ

00:16:44.620 was so,

00:16:46.000 I mean,

00:16:46.140 it was,

00:16:46.300 it was about,

00:16:47.080 yeah,

00:16:47.240 it was so big and epic

00:16:48.440 and,

00:16:48.660 and Jonathan's portrayal

00:16:50.980 as we do it,

00:16:51.860 there is a humanity there

00:16:52.960 that makes him

00:16:53.520 a little bit more accessible.

00:16:54.440 I think when people see Jim,

00:16:55.420 sometimes there's almost

00:16:56.220 a reverence.

00:16:57.600 Whereas with Jonathan,

00:16:58.080 it was just the last part,

00:17:00.860 you know.

00:17:01.780 And,

00:17:02.040 and,

00:17:02.500 and Mel's filmmaking style,

00:17:04.360 again,

00:17:04.540 very,

00:17:04.840 very dramatic.

00:17:06.260 It was beautiful.

00:17:07.260 Very,

00:17:08.040 mine is a little bit more,

00:17:10.000 I don't know if raw

00:17:11.360 is the right word,

00:17:12.160 but.

00:17:12.420 I don't know.

00:17:13.200 Your filmmaking is absolutely,

00:17:15.740 stunningly beautiful.

00:17:17.240 Well,

00:17:17.480 thank you,

00:17:17.860 thank you.

00:17:18.220 But I think,

00:17:18.840 but I,

00:17:19.020 but I would say it's,

00:17:19.860 it's probably more because of the,

00:17:21.600 the smallness of it.

00:17:23.380 It's,

00:17:23.580 I don't,

00:17:24.080 I'm not trying to do a big epic

00:17:25.560 like Mel was.

00:17:27.320 For me,

00:17:27.660 it's about the,

00:17:28.280 the humanity,

00:17:29.120 the small moments,

00:17:29.920 the rawness of it.

00:17:30.580 So when people see Jonathan,

00:17:31.480 there's almost,

00:17:31.980 there's an accessibility.

00:17:33.200 Yeah.

00:17:33.520 Where they're like,

00:17:33.800 they want to come up and hug him.

00:17:34.860 Yeah.

00:17:35.180 You know,

00:17:35.480 and that's,

00:17:36.100 that's been interesting.

00:17:37.020 The other thing that you did

00:17:38.820 that I,

00:17:39.320 I love,

00:17:40.860 and I,

00:17:42.020 I don't know if I've ever

00:17:45.640 really seen it before,

00:17:47.260 at least portrayed as well

00:17:49.480 as you have done it.

00:17:51.320 The apostles are not apostles.

00:17:54.580 You know what I mean?

00:17:55.080 They're not,

00:17:55.580 they're not the apostles

00:17:56.880 that you expect.

00:17:58.200 There was a scene last season,

00:18:01.200 it was towards the end,

00:18:03.320 where Jesus is just nonstop healing.

00:18:06.760 And you feel so bad for Jesus

00:18:10.080 because he's there by himself,

00:18:12.860 drained.

00:18:14.180 And they're having this normal conversation,

00:18:17.820 not really paying attention,

00:18:19.420 not really,

00:18:20.480 not doing what apostles would do,

00:18:22.640 you would think.

00:18:24.060 And,

00:18:24.760 and even arguments back and forth,

00:18:27.400 they have no clue

00:18:28.780 as to what they're dealing with.

00:18:30.360 Right.

00:18:31.500 Yeah.

00:18:32.480 Why that choice?

00:18:33.780 Yeah.

00:18:33.980 So it's a great question.

00:18:34.980 So that was episode three

00:18:36.000 of season two.

00:18:37.540 It's based on Matthew 4,

00:18:39.500 24,

00:18:39.820 which it said,

00:18:40.540 Jesus was healing

00:18:41.420 all kinds of people,

00:18:42.460 just lines of people

00:18:43.380 coming from,

00:18:43.960 you know,

00:18:44.180 from Syria and Damascus.

00:18:46.900 Yeah.

00:18:47.260 So instead of showing

00:18:48.840 all the healings,

00:18:49.580 I take you backstage.

00:18:51.200 And so we,

00:18:52.980 we spent time

00:18:53.880 with the disciples

00:18:54.700 and,

00:18:55.200 and it's still early

00:18:56.180 in the ministry.

00:18:56.720 So they're wrestling

00:18:57.620 with all of this.

00:18:58.900 So he's the Messiah.

00:19:00.420 Why,

00:19:00.600 why haven't we overthrown

00:19:01.860 the Romans yet?

00:19:02.700 What's,

00:19:03.200 what's that about?

00:19:04.340 Why did he choose me?

00:19:05.680 I'm,

00:19:06.240 I'm not a student

00:19:07.420 like,

00:19:07.900 like typical rabbi,

00:19:09.240 rabbinical students.

00:19:09.960 I was a fisherman.

00:19:10.660 And so they're wrestling

00:19:12.040 with all of that.

00:19:13.120 Well,

00:19:13.420 one thing leads to another

00:19:14.320 and they start arguing

00:19:15.300 and in the midst

00:19:17.640 of their argument,

00:19:18.780 like where the argument

00:19:19.480 reaches a height,

00:19:20.360 because again,

00:19:20.980 think about this.

00:19:22.160 Matthew was a tax collector.

00:19:24.320 Jews hated tax collectors.

00:19:26.260 They were betrayers

00:19:27.780 of their people.

00:19:28.120 Such a great depiction

00:19:29.260 of him.

00:19:29.860 Yeah.

00:19:30.120 And even Jesus,

00:19:31.340 when Jesus would speak

00:19:32.180 of tax collectors,

00:19:32.880 it wasn't positive.

00:19:34.800 And then you've got,

00:19:36.440 he's called

00:19:37.320 as one of the followers

00:19:38.240 and now he's living with

00:19:39.420 and spending time

00:19:40.140 with these other disciples

00:19:41.000 who would have hated him.

00:19:41.880 So they're arguing

00:19:42.480 and arguing and arguing

00:19:43.160 and in the midst

00:19:43.620 of the argument,

00:19:44.840 Jesus just walks by.

00:19:46.100 He's been healing

00:19:46.620 for probably eight hours.

00:19:48.640 There's blood on him,

00:19:50.080 pouring sweat,

00:19:51.420 power's drained out of him.

00:19:52.640 He can barely stand up.

00:19:53.880 His mother helps him

00:19:54.760 into bed,

00:19:55.440 just beautiful.

00:19:56.260 Well, all he does

00:19:56.920 is say goodnight

00:19:57.680 and they're all just like,

00:20:00.120 ugh,

00:20:01.260 you know,

00:20:01.760 like we suck,

00:20:04.020 you know?

00:20:04.440 Yeah.

00:20:05.080 And so that's the answer.

00:20:07.660 Why that choice?

00:20:08.680 I've been to Rome.

00:20:09.860 I've been to,

00:20:10.700 I'm not a Catholic,

00:20:11.580 but I've been to Catholic basilicas.

00:20:12.800 They're beautiful.

00:20:13.680 I've seen the stained glass windows.

00:20:15.320 I've seen the statues.

00:20:17.260 There's something.

00:20:17.940 Michelangelo.

00:20:18.460 Right.

00:20:19.080 There's something to the reverence,

00:20:20.820 but for me,

00:20:21.460 it's like,

00:20:22.880 yeah,

00:20:23.240 I don't,

00:20:24.220 they were,

00:20:24.760 they were human beings.

00:20:25.820 They were guys.

00:20:26.540 They screwed up.

00:20:27.700 They were,

00:20:28.460 they were just like us.

00:20:29.480 And I feel like seeing Jesus

00:20:31.060 through the eyes of those

00:20:32.260 who actually met him

00:20:33.160 and who had the same questions

00:20:35.120 and doubts

00:20:35.780 and struggles

00:20:36.600 that we do today.

00:20:38.460 I want to communicate

00:20:39.480 that the answer

00:20:40.580 and the solution

00:20:41.300 to those questions

00:20:42.600 and struggles

00:20:43.160 is the same today

00:20:44.060 as it was 2000 years ago.

00:20:45.320 But if I don't show you

00:20:46.760 the questions

00:20:47.800 and the struggles

00:20:48.400 and the humanity,

00:20:49.800 then there's not much

00:20:51.420 for you to connect with.

00:20:52.580 And so then the answer

00:20:53.460 doesn't,

00:20:53.940 isn't as connectable either.

00:20:56.000 So what I hear from viewers

00:20:57.280 is they go,

00:20:57.800 that's me.

00:20:58.420 Simon,

00:20:58.760 Simon is me.

00:20:59.660 Matthew is me.

00:21:01.040 And because of that,

00:21:02.300 then when Jesus

00:21:03.260 heals their wounds,

00:21:04.980 it's like,

00:21:05.320 well,

00:21:05.480 maybe he can heal mine too.

00:21:07.320 And you,

00:21:08.020 it's,

00:21:09.300 it's interesting

00:21:10.000 because you look at,

00:21:11.580 you know,

00:21:13.700 you talk about going

00:21:15.160 to the Vatican

00:21:15.720 and seeing the stained glass

00:21:16.640 windows and everything else

00:21:17.440 and,

00:21:17.900 and the majesty of that.

00:21:20.380 People,

00:21:21.200 I'll say

00:21:21.860 at times,

00:21:25.080 Jesus is my best friend.

00:21:27.100 He is my best friend.

00:21:28.640 And I,

00:21:29.160 I just talk to him.

00:21:30.600 You know what I mean?

00:21:31.700 Um,

00:21:32.260 and I've had people

00:21:33.940 look at me and go,

00:21:35.020 he is

00:21:36.660 the Lord of Lords,

00:21:39.320 King of Kings.

00:21:40.360 And I'm like,

00:21:41.640 yeah,

00:21:41.940 I know.

00:21:42.360 And,

00:21:43.080 and that has set me

00:21:44.340 that there are two ways

00:21:45.600 that we have to appreciate.

00:21:47.580 We must worship him

00:21:50.260 as a king on a throne

00:21:53.300 and humble ourself.

00:21:55.680 But there is also

00:21:57.400 the kindness

00:22:00.340 that he has,

00:22:02.120 you know?

00:22:03.980 The thing that

00:22:05.440 some people were skeptical of

00:22:07.760 when the show first came out

00:22:09.780 was,

00:22:12.240 well,

00:22:12.420 if you,

00:22:12.760 if you humanize him too much,

00:22:14.860 like the episode three

00:22:16.480 of season one

00:22:17.160 where you see him

00:22:17.920 making camp

00:22:19.000 and,

00:22:19.260 and dressing his own wound

00:22:20.680 and making his own food

00:22:21.780 and start trying to start a fire

00:22:23.260 and doing his bedtime prayer.

00:22:26.160 There are some people

00:22:27.020 who were like,

00:22:27.580 well,

00:22:27.740 the risk is

00:22:28.560 you're taking away

00:22:29.480 from his divinity.

00:22:30.300 But he wouldn't have gone,

00:22:33.280 poof,

00:22:33.660 start the fire.

00:22:34.620 Exactly.

00:22:35.520 And I,

00:22:36.280 I believe,

00:22:37.400 and,

00:22:37.540 and,

00:22:37.700 and I can say this

00:22:39.240 pretty confidently

00:22:41.060 because it's what we've heard

00:22:42.560 from millions of people

00:22:43.600 is that it not only

00:22:45.100 doesn't detract

00:22:45.680 from his humanity,

00:22:46.380 if anything,

00:22:46.900 it enhances it.

00:22:47.980 it makes it even more impressive.

00:22:50.700 It makes him more humble.

00:22:52.060 Because you go,

00:22:53.040 the creator of the universe

00:22:54.260 is doing this,

00:22:55.720 became one of us.

00:22:56.960 Yes.

00:22:57.420 He didn't sin,

00:22:58.360 but he knows what we felt.

00:22:59.960 He,

00:23:00.360 he did what we did.

00:23:01.740 He,

00:23:02.180 he,

00:23:02.800 he,

00:23:03.120 he,

00:23:03.860 he,

00:23:04.140 we even portray him as,

00:23:05.500 as like,

00:23:05.940 that he was a clumsy teenager,

00:23:07.540 you know,

00:23:08.080 like,

00:23:08.920 he,

00:23:09.820 he didn't sin,

00:23:10.780 but he,

00:23:11.140 but he,

00:23:11.520 he was a human being.

00:23:12.480 Now,

00:23:12.880 the whole God,

00:23:13.800 man,

00:23:14.920 conundrum has vexed us

00:23:16.320 for 2,000 years.

00:23:17.300 We will never understand it,

00:23:18.720 but we do know

00:23:19.480 he laughed and danced

00:23:21.400 at weddings

00:23:21.900 with his friends.

00:23:23.240 The first miracle

00:23:23.900 ever he did

00:23:24.380 was a favor for his friends

00:23:25.460 because his mom asked him to.

00:23:27.160 The phrase,

00:23:28.080 the term Emmanuel

00:23:29.060 means God with us.

00:23:30.540 It's typically a Christmas term.

00:23:31.840 That's typically

00:23:32.380 right around this time of year

00:23:33.500 we're talking about Emmanuel.

00:23:34.760 It's not just a Christmas term.

00:23:35.860 It means God with us.

00:23:38.200 Why,

00:23:38.740 why did he dress his own wounds

00:23:40.900 and make his own food?

00:23:41.840 Because God was with us.

00:23:43.380 That is an extraordinary concept.

00:23:45.340 And I think when that,

00:23:46.120 when you,

00:23:46.440 when that hits you

00:23:47.060 and you go,

00:23:48.160 that's the creator

00:23:48.740 of the universe

00:23:49.300 and he hung out

00:23:51.060 with his disciples

00:23:51.800 and was a human being,

00:23:53.700 I think it makes it

00:23:54.460 even more humbling.

00:23:55.380 Oh,

00:23:55.580 I agree.

00:23:56.080 And then,

00:23:56.460 of course,

00:23:56.980 as you know,

00:23:58.020 it's even more

00:23:58.680 of an example.

00:23:59.640 It's more of a,

00:24:00.820 that's,

00:24:01.200 it's the,

00:24:01.840 it's the first being last.

00:24:03.780 Yes.

00:24:03.980 I mean,

00:24:04.140 that is the,

00:24:05.720 you know,

00:24:05.960 you've always heard,

00:24:06.800 well,

00:24:07.400 General Patton ate

00:24:08.480 after all his troops.

00:24:09.660 Yeah.

00:24:11.300 Jesus

00:24:11.660 served us.

00:24:14.060 I mean,

00:24:14.640 that's crazy humbling.

00:24:16.800 Crazy humbling.

00:24:17.860 I want to play a clip.

00:24:19.520 And this is an exchange

00:24:21.000 between Jesus

00:24:22.220 and Little James.

00:24:23.840 Watch.

00:24:29.340 Master.

00:24:32.060 Little James.

00:24:34.920 May I have a moment?

00:24:36.040 Of course.

00:24:39.300 I am.

00:24:43.060 Forgive me,

00:24:43.800 I'm not always

00:24:45.420 confident to speak.

00:24:48.140 Slow to speak.

00:24:49.480 That's a very good quality.

00:24:53.440 I wanted to ask you

00:24:55.680 a question.

00:24:56.480 Please.

00:24:59.300 You're sending us out

00:25:00.500 with the ability

00:25:01.060 to heal the sick in lane.

00:25:03.720 Yes,

00:25:04.000 that,

00:25:04.460 that is what you said.

00:25:06.040 Yes.

00:25:07.340 So you're telling me

00:25:08.200 that I have the ability

00:25:09.860 to heal.

00:25:15.620 Forgive me,

00:25:16.420 I just

00:25:16.780 find that difficult

00:25:18.980 to imagine

00:25:19.640 with my condition.

00:25:23.980 Which you haven't healed.

00:25:28.020 Do you want to be healed?

00:25:33.480 Yes.

00:25:34.000 Of course,

00:25:35.920 if that's possible.

00:25:37.740 I think you've seen enough

00:25:38.800 to know it's possible.

00:25:45.380 Why haven't you?

00:25:52.100 So the actor who

00:25:53.220 plays Little James

00:25:55.000 is,

00:25:55.880 has

00:25:56.720 cerebral palsy

00:25:59.000 and scoliosis.

00:25:59.760 you know,

00:26:00.820 in real life.

00:26:02.080 So when I cast him,

00:26:04.140 I knew I was eventually

00:26:05.480 going to have to do this scene.

00:26:09.080 Which is

00:26:09.960 one of the

00:26:12.480 toughest

00:26:13.100 questions

00:26:14.160 that believers

00:26:15.100 and non-believers

00:26:15.980 have ever

00:26:17.180 faced,

00:26:18.160 which is,

00:26:18.620 why does he heal

00:26:19.300 some and not others?

00:26:20.740 Why

00:26:21.180 does a good God

00:26:22.520 allow suffering?

00:26:23.280 So finally,

00:26:26.660 in season three,

00:26:27.500 I was like,

00:26:27.860 I can't wait any longer

00:26:28.880 because there's a scene,

00:26:30.800 I shouldn't call it a scene,

00:26:32.340 a passage in the Gospels

00:26:33.340 where Jesus sends out

00:26:34.320 the disciples

00:26:34.820 two by two

00:26:35.540 and they heal

00:26:36.160 and they cast out demons

00:26:37.220 and they preach the word.

00:26:38.240 It's a temporary

00:26:38.840 moment during the ministry

00:26:40.740 where he grants them

00:26:41.680 this authority.

00:26:42.960 And I just thought,

00:26:43.900 what would Little James

00:26:45.180 think of that?

00:26:46.000 He's going to be

00:26:46.740 asked to heal others

00:26:47.760 and yet he still

00:26:48.400 has this malady.

00:26:49.240 And so

00:26:49.660 that question

00:26:52.620 is one that I guess

00:26:53.440 I had

00:26:53.840 the craziness

00:26:55.720 to try to answer.

00:26:57.880 It was beautiful.

00:26:59.440 What is it like

00:27:00.580 on the set?

00:27:02.460 Because there has

00:27:03.540 to be moments

00:27:04.360 like that

00:27:05.300 that it feels

00:27:07.020 personal.

00:27:08.080 Yeah.

00:27:09.180 What is that like?

00:27:10.780 I would say

00:27:11.780 that

00:27:13.300 there's been

00:27:14.200 about a dozen

00:27:14.960 times

00:27:15.660 where

00:27:16.600 people

00:27:19.240 the character

00:27:19.660 of Jesus

00:27:20.140 in the show

00:27:20.900 is

00:27:21.700 one of two things.

00:27:24.320 Either asking

00:27:25.260 someone to follow him

00:27:26.360 or

00:27:28.260 a character

00:27:29.700 is quoting

00:27:30.380 scripture.

00:27:31.240 Like actually

00:27:31.560 because a lot

00:27:31.960 of the content

00:27:32.400 I mean that scene

00:27:33.040 that you just watched

00:27:33.620 isn't directly

00:27:34.060 from scripture

00:27:34.520 obviously.

00:27:35.380 But every now

00:27:35.840 and then there is.

00:27:36.560 They're actually

00:27:37.060 saying words

00:27:38.220 that were uttered

00:27:39.400 in scripture.

00:27:41.340 And

00:27:41.640 almost without exception

00:27:43.440 when one of those

00:27:44.320 two things happens

00:27:45.140 Jesus calling someone

00:27:46.100 to follow him

00:27:46.680 or they're quoting

00:27:47.080 scripture

00:27:47.440 something happens

00:27:49.220 something emotional

00:27:50.320 I've had actors

00:27:51.000 come up to me

00:27:51.480 and say

00:27:51.780 I don't know

00:27:52.220 what happened

00:27:52.860 there

00:27:53.080 I just couldn't

00:27:53.760 stop crying

00:27:54.400 or I couldn't

00:27:55.280 they have to walk

00:27:56.340 away and kind

00:27:57.040 of gather

00:27:57.380 themselves

00:27:57.940 it happens

00:28:00.040 enough times

00:28:00.800 that it's no

00:28:01.240 longer a surprise

00:28:02.040 and I think

00:28:03.240 there's

00:28:03.620 I think it just

00:28:04.340 speaks to the

00:28:05.060 you know

00:28:05.880 to the power

00:28:06.360 of scripture

00:28:06.780 but also

00:28:07.440 I think that

00:28:08.340 even though

00:28:08.620 we know

00:28:08.900 these are actors

00:28:09.580 and this is

00:28:10.260 a portrayal

00:28:13.320 whether you

00:28:15.220 believe or not

00:28:15.940 whatever

00:28:17.820 wherever you are

00:28:18.640 in your

00:28:19.020 in your relationship

00:28:19.860 with Jesus

00:28:20.300 whether you

00:28:20.640 have one

00:28:20.980 or don't

00:28:21.400 or whether

00:28:21.700 you're in the

00:28:22.120 middle of one

00:28:22.660 or searching

00:28:23.480 or not

00:28:24.040 when you're

00:28:25.920 faced with

00:28:26.380 that choice

00:28:27.200 it is an

00:28:28.640 emotional experience

00:28:29.860 dramatic

00:28:30.540 whatever choice

00:28:31.580 you make

00:28:32.100 even if you

00:28:33.040 reject

00:28:33.440 even if you

00:28:33.980 don't believe

00:28:34.420 even if you

00:28:34.840 dismiss

00:28:35.200 you can't

00:28:36.280 ignore it

00:28:36.960 and I feel

00:28:38.580 like that's

00:28:39.000 sometimes what

00:28:39.580 happens on the

00:28:40.300 set

00:28:40.540 and it's

00:28:41.680 again it's

00:28:43.340 a very humbling

00:28:44.260 thing because

00:28:44.920 you go

00:28:45.300 gosh we are

00:28:45.880 not this is

00:28:46.460 not just a

00:28:46.900 normal show

00:28:47.380 where I can

00:28:47.860 I can just

00:28:48.640 do this and

00:28:49.620 walk away from

00:28:50.240 it and hope

00:28:50.640 it turns out

00:28:51.300 well it's

00:28:51.840 we're doing

00:28:52.720 we're portraying

00:28:53.980 something that

00:28:54.540 we believe

00:28:54.940 actually happened

00:28:55.660 and and

00:28:56.380 literally changed

00:28:57.700 the world and

00:28:58.220 continues to

00:28:58.720 today

00:28:59.040 everybody a

00:29:00.700 believer on

00:29:01.580 set or

00:29:02.380 majority aren't

00:29:04.460 I would say

00:29:04.940 aren't

00:29:05.740 yeah correct

00:29:06.380 but it's over

00:29:07.120 half our actors

00:29:07.900 are not believers

00:29:09.320 yeah or I

00:29:10.980 mean it's a

00:29:12.740 spectrum you

00:29:13.440 know but

00:29:13.760 and couple

00:29:15.580 have become

00:29:16.180 so since

00:29:17.120 doing the

00:29:17.560 show but

00:29:18.980 yeah a lot

00:29:19.280 of them

00:29:19.680 either an

00:29:22.600 agnostic

00:29:23.080 faith background

00:29:24.340 but just love

00:29:24.820 the show love

00:29:25.420 the love the

00:29:26.680 historical portrayal

00:29:28.420 and and and

00:29:30.120 find find the

00:29:30.980 stories very

00:29:31.520 intriguing and

00:29:32.120 and and some

00:29:33.460 believe that some

00:29:34.840 of this may very

00:29:35.820 well may have

00:29:36.240 happened maybe not

00:29:37.100 necessarily ready to

00:29:38.140 acknowledge Jesus

00:29:39.520 as God but

00:29:40.280 yeah that's

00:29:41.360 that's a I

00:29:42.000 would say it's

00:29:42.380 a majority of

00:29:42.900 our cast and

00:29:43.560 and crew

00:29:43.980 back with Dallas

00:29:45.940 here in a second

00:29:46.520 I I want to

00:29:47.860 talk to you about

00:29:48.340 a more earthly

00:29:49.160 power that we

00:29:50.540 all have we

00:29:51.060 have we have

00:29:52.000 so much power

00:29:52.980 and we don't

00:29:53.640 ever recognize

00:29:54.400 it

00:29:54.840 some of our

00:29:57.920 power comes

00:29:58.760 temporally here

00:30:01.100 it matters how

00:30:02.300 you spend your

00:30:03.380 money when

00:30:04.660 you're putting

00:30:05.600 it out there

00:30:06.120 and you're you're

00:30:06.900 putting it out

00:30:07.660 in the economy

00:30:08.300 and we're what

00:30:09.460 are we buying

00:30:10.060 what are we

00:30:10.660 building with

00:30:11.940 that money

00:30:12.460 we really need

00:30:14.480 to rebuild our

00:30:15.380 country and

00:30:16.760 every chance you

00:30:17.860 get to buy

00:30:18.540 American and I

00:30:19.460 mean real

00:30:20.060 America not

00:30:20.820 like not like

00:30:21.700 cars American

00:30:23.420 cars today are

00:30:24.120 not made in

00:30:24.600 America they're

00:30:25.120 assembled in

00:30:25.740 America a lot

00:30:27.240 of American

00:30:27.840 manufacturing has

00:30:29.400 slipped over the

00:30:30.240 years trying to

00:30:31.160 make clothes in

00:30:32.040 America is almost

00:30:33.500 impossible however

00:30:35.760 there is somebody

00:30:37.720 that is doing

00:30:38.720 it and I

00:30:41.040 love partnering

00:30:41.800 with these

00:30:42.340 companies the

00:30:43.180 company I want

00:30:43.660 to tell you

00:30:43.920 about is grip

00:30:44.500 six they they

00:30:47.320 have decided that

00:30:48.300 they are starting

00:30:49.040 small and they

00:30:49.960 just want to

00:30:50.840 make a wallet

00:30:52.680 some belts and I

00:30:54.540 think the best

00:30:55.220 socks I've ever

00:30:56.100 worn this is a

00:30:57.860 true American

00:30:58.800 experience everything

00:31:00.700 comes from America

00:31:02.460 all the way from

00:31:03.440 the sheep and

00:31:04.520 the wool all

00:31:06.500 the way to the

00:31:07.000 end product the

00:31:07.780 ink everything it's

00:31:09.240 grip six you're

00:31:10.460 supporting American

00:31:11.240 ranchers you're

00:31:12.140 rebuilding our

00:31:13.520 fabric making

00:31:15.200 ability here in

00:31:17.500 America it's an

00:31:19.200 American business

00:31:20.060 owned by Americans

00:31:21.500 it has some extra

00:31:23.780 risk because it's in

00:31:25.020 America and it

00:31:25.780 stands for something

00:31:26.720 but I don't know

00:31:28.760 as I stand I like

00:31:31.320 to know that I'm

00:31:32.700 in American socks

00:31:34.240 grip six check

00:31:35.980 them out now

00:31:36.380 grip six dot com

00:31:38.240 slash Beck grip

00:31:39.620 six dot com slash

00:31:41.120 Beck you know the

00:31:42.780 the thing about your

00:31:44.900 portrayal here is

00:31:46.140 that and you know

00:31:48.120 this is the way the

00:31:49.380 Bible is it just

00:31:50.560 feels like today

00:31:52.280 yeah and I find it

00:31:54.340 interesting I assume

00:31:56.080 you believe we're

00:31:56.980 living in end of

00:31:58.280 days and the

00:31:58.900 possibility at least

00:32:00.080 exist that we'll

00:32:01.500 see Christ

00:32:02.140 it's interesting

00:32:06.460 to me that your

00:32:07.700 father laid the

00:32:09.420 groundwork and that

00:32:11.480 felt right at the

00:32:12.700 time but now if we

00:32:15.620 are indeed approaching

00:32:16.760 these days it's not

00:32:21.700 the fear it's the

00:32:24.220 strength and the

00:32:26.240 empathy and the

00:32:28.160 kindness of Christ

00:32:29.800 and I I wouldn't

00:32:33.380 have thought that

00:32:34.540 yeah you know

00:32:35.480 yeah it's really

00:32:36.280 that's a really

00:32:37.260 insightful point and

00:32:38.780 question yeah 25

00:32:41.920 years ago it was

00:32:43.440 like it was almost

00:32:44.900 like the left behind

00:32:45.600 books where I don't

00:32:47.420 know if a warning is

00:32:48.160 the right answer but

00:32:49.300 it's kind of like hey

00:32:50.280 this is what the

00:32:52.460 Bible is predicting and

00:32:54.380 we're starting to see

00:32:55.320 some evidences of it

00:32:56.540 pay attention

00:32:58.080 yeah not last call

00:33:00.540 but yeah a call

00:33:01.800 yeah and now it's

00:33:03.940 there there's so much

00:33:06.060 of what was predicted

00:33:07.020 happening like I mean

00:33:08.220 the division alone I

00:33:09.240 mean like I mean

00:33:10.200 you've you've you mean

00:33:11.700 you know this better

00:33:12.240 than anybody I mean

00:33:12.800 there's never been a

00:33:13.760 time and perhaps in

00:33:15.240 history where literally

00:33:16.920 just even even

00:33:18.660 potentially agreeing with

00:33:19.820 someone who might be on

00:33:20.580 the team on the other

00:33:21.460 team on anything is

00:33:23.820 is a verboten and

00:33:25.920 and and you shouldn't

00:33:26.860 do it and if you do

00:33:27.540 it now you're no

00:33:28.280 longer on your team

00:33:28.880 I mean it is it is

00:33:29.720 insane and and the

00:33:32.420 world is seeming to

00:33:33.460 explode well you don't

00:33:34.640 really need to give a

00:33:35.600 warning anymore that

00:33:36.500 the world might explode

00:33:37.440 it's exploding the

00:33:38.580 question then has

00:33:39.240 become is well how

00:33:40.700 now shall we live

00:33:41.740 what what what what is

00:33:43.600 our responsibility in

00:33:44.660 the midst of this and

00:33:46.540 you might think well

00:33:48.140 there well we need to

00:33:49.040 fight we need to

00:33:49.640 overthrow and that's

00:33:50.920 what the Jews were

00:33:51.480 saying at the time

00:33:52.220 Jesus came all right

00:33:53.000 finally you're here

00:33:53.680 the world exploding

00:33:54.600 do your thing heal us

00:33:57.860 take over and he

00:34:00.020 went oh yeah no I'm

00:34:01.580 not here to stop that

00:34:02.480 I'm here for your

00:34:03.140 heart I'm here for the

00:34:04.280 kingdom in your heart

00:34:04.920 I'm building a new

00:34:05.700 kingdom and it's not

00:34:06.400 what you think and

00:34:07.920 they didn't get it

00:34:09.620 until he until his

00:34:10.360 death and resurrection

00:34:11.120 I I've been saying

00:34:13.620 for the last probably

00:34:15.840 year maybe eight

00:34:18.620 months really clearly

00:34:20.160 there's coming a time

00:34:22.980 right right now it's

00:34:24.120 right now where if

00:34:26.220 you're not if you

00:34:27.640 haven't had a

00:34:28.320 relationship with the

00:34:29.100 Holy Spirit I don't

00:34:30.780 know if you're going

00:34:31.200 to survive because you

00:34:32.520 have to be guided by

00:34:34.340 by him and and that

00:34:37.420 we have to be more

00:34:38.960 Christ like and it's

00:34:40.300 amazing to me from

00:34:41.640 Christians they will

00:34:43.640 say what what are we

00:34:45.680 going to do about

00:34:46.580 everything and I'll

00:34:48.720 say read your

00:34:51.100 scriptures and just

00:34:52.220 just live like Jesus

00:34:54.620 wants you to live

00:34:55.500 yeah and they'll say

00:34:57.820 yeah yeah yeah I know

00:34:58.760 that but what are we

00:34:59.560 going to do and it's

00:35:01.300 it's almost exactly the

00:35:04.160 same thing yeah they

00:35:05.900 don't we don't

00:35:07.840 understand who we are

00:35:12.200 we I don't know it's

00:35:13.840 it's we know it's not

00:35:15.300 going to continue this

00:35:16.200 way and yet we're

00:35:17.840 trying to I don't

00:35:20.100 know how to express

00:35:20.940 it we're trying to

00:35:21.920 live our way when

00:35:24.260 that massive change

00:35:26.720 is coming where we

00:35:28.960 won't live like this

00:35:29.760 at all yeah I think

00:35:31.060 I think well I think

00:35:32.020 we have even those of

00:35:33.280 us who believe

00:35:33.820 struggle with wanting

00:35:34.860 to control we want

00:35:36.300 to want to impact the

00:35:38.100 circumstances around

00:35:39.100 us and and and Jesus

00:35:40.980 called us to do that

00:35:41.840 but not in the way we

00:35:42.640 expect and I think for

00:35:43.600 you especially I would

00:35:44.780 imagine a lot of your

00:35:45.700 your viewers and

00:35:46.620 listeners are going

00:35:47.320 Glenn you're a warrior

00:35:48.760 you know you've been

00:35:49.960 fighting for us for so

00:35:51.100 long fight you're like

00:35:53.140 yeah but well there's a

00:35:55.200 different different kind

00:35:56.000 of fighting yeah Jesus

00:35:57.320 was a warrior yeah I

00:36:00.400 mean if that wasn't war

00:36:01.760 that he went through I

00:36:03.120 don't know what is right

00:36:04.260 and it's just it's just

00:36:07.120 not the way you think it's

00:36:09.540 not it's you know I've I

00:36:12.980 found that I've been

00:36:16.100 approached on the street

00:36:16.980 many times with people

00:36:19.960 who just lose their mind

00:36:21.340 and just like come at me

00:36:22.960 and and I have found a

00:36:28.080 way to through God to

00:36:30.920 actually love them and to

00:36:33.120 feel the hurt that somehow

00:36:38.180 or another I have made

00:36:40.760 them feel and I've just

00:36:44.260 said to them I love you

00:36:45.980 yeah and you keep

00:36:47.220 repeating that and it it

00:36:51.580 they don't nobody knows

00:36:53.140 how to fight that because

00:36:54.620 I'm not giving you any

00:36:57.460 oxygen for the fire right

00:36:59.280 you know yeah and and

00:37:01.720 that's I mean he talked

00:37:03.160 about the last time he

00:37:03.980 first he talked about a kind

00:37:07.180 word can is almost like

00:37:09.120 keeping hot coals of fire

00:37:10.300 on someone's head I mean

00:37:11.300 the kind of fight that he

00:37:13.040 did was just so different

00:37:14.840 than what we how we see

00:37:16.580 it and and and I think

00:37:19.040 the question that we have

00:37:19.980 to ask ourselves is okay

00:37:20.880 so what does victory look

00:37:22.160 like and I think we think

00:37:23.880 victory looks like

00:37:24.820 overthrowing the

00:37:26.820 government overthrowing our

00:37:27.720 pressures overthrowing

00:37:28.740 changing changing the

00:37:30.280 society so that we are now

00:37:31.640 in control and and you

00:37:34.520 know again we're libertarians

00:37:36.500 we know the danger yeah

00:37:37.560 yeah but Jesus flipped on

00:37:42.640 his head on its head what

00:37:43.880 what victory looked like

00:37:45.340 and victory of the victory

00:37:46.940 is and that's even the

00:37:48.000 clip that we just played

00:37:49.000 where little James is

00:37:49.960 saying well why haven't you

00:37:50.580 healed me and Jesus says

00:37:51.680 to him yeah it would be a

00:37:53.180 good story for me to do a

00:37:54.280 miracle but there's lots of

00:37:55.180 people who have that story

00:37:56.140 the greater miracle is you

00:37:58.480 proclaiming me in spite of

00:38:00.900 your weakness you finding

00:38:02.500 joy in the midst of your

00:38:03.780 circumstances that's where

00:38:05.920 Christians can truly impact

00:38:08.060 societies to go yeah we get

00:38:10.540 it we were suffering too we

00:38:11.980 know and some of the most

00:38:14.960 joyous people we've met been

00:38:16.300 in third world countries who

00:38:17.560 are living in dastardly

00:38:19.200 circumstances living in

00:38:20.280 oppression and going yeah but

00:38:21.520 I still have the joy that's

00:38:22.700 the victory that's the that's

00:38:24.920 the battle to win I was in

00:38:27.000 Iraq one one night they this

00:38:31.620 church was the church in Iraq

00:38:33.400 is awesome awesome they were

00:38:35.960 they were scheduled to be

00:38:37.420 bombed yeah to be bombed and

00:38:38.960 killed at 7 p.m. and I'm

00:38:41.280 asking my guys are they still

00:38:43.660 going and he's like yep

00:38:45.600 they're gonna be there so I

00:38:46.600 went but I was like these guys

00:38:50.960 these families the children the

00:38:53.500 dads the mothers joy full of joy

00:38:56.080 and they were like if it happens

00:38:57.240 it happens yeah what a great way

00:39:00.940 to live your life they'll talk

00:39:02.300 about it yeah they'll say we had

00:39:04.540 a wonderful bombing last week

00:39:06.280 and they're like what were you

00:39:06.900 talking about they're like oh

00:39:07.680 we've weren't we're closer to

00:39:09.220 God than ever before yeah I mean

00:39:10.740 because they find they find God in

00:39:13.240 the midst of of challenge and

00:39:15.220 that's what true joy is versus

00:39:16.940 happiness which comes and goes

00:39:18.300 and yeah we we talk about we do

00:39:19.740 that a lot in the show too of

00:39:21.280 trying to show that it's it's

00:39:24.260 actually through the the trial the

00:39:27.280 the the pain that you actually

00:39:29.660 feel closest to God it's a it's

00:39:31.040 a hard truth to grasp it takes a

00:39:32.800 long time but that's again that's

00:39:35.260 the that's the victory that that

00:39:36.640 comes when you can actually get

00:39:37.700 there it becomes a superpower

00:39:38.540 there's a a part in this season

00:39:45.560 where Jesus says you think it's

00:39:48.220 hard to follow me now you haven't

00:39:52.480 seen anything yet yeah and that

00:39:56.540 was one of those moments where I

00:39:58.040 feel like wow that that's that's

00:40:02.080 today yeah can you can you talk

00:40:07.200 about a little bit about how what

00:40:14.560 people what you hope people get from

00:40:17.640 watching this and not just from

00:40:22.960 Jesus but from the apostles on you

00:40:26.420 think it's tough yeah you're gonna be

00:40:29.120 crucified upside down you know yeah

00:40:31.120 what do you yeah well so there's a

00:40:33.840 this is a scene you're referencing is

00:40:35.940 an episode two of season three where

00:40:38.340 it's the scene where he officially

00:40:39.860 calls him he officially says you're my

00:40:41.580 apostle so he we sometimes get those

00:40:44.020 terms mixed up disciples Jesus had

00:40:45.800 many disciples hundreds that followed

00:40:47.560 him around but the apostles were the

00:40:49.960 12 that he said you're you're my

00:40:51.460 leaders you're gonna you're gonna go

00:40:53.620 out and apostles means the one who's

00:40:56.480 sent and so he gathers them all in

00:40:59.100 Simon's house and says you're my guys

00:41:01.100 you're the official 12 and you're my

00:41:02.500 apostles and they're like whoa you're

00:41:04.020 sending us he says yes we start

00:41:06.280 telling them you're gonna go out you're

00:41:08.060 gonna preach you're gonna heal you're

00:41:09.660 gonna cast out demons but you're

00:41:11.100 actually not gonna take any money

00:41:12.160 you're not gonna take anything to

00:41:13.520 wear you're gonna go out there without

00:41:15.520 me and they're like whoa wait a

00:41:16.680 minute we've been with you and we've

00:41:18.780 seen you when you do these things and

00:41:20.860 you get attacked you get threatened by

00:41:24.080 our leaders you're sending us out there

00:41:26.040 without you how are we gonna do this

00:41:27.280 and he's like well you need to learn to

00:41:29.480 not fear those who may kill the body

00:41:31.500 destroy the body but it's more about

00:41:34.500 the soul and and John the apostle says

00:41:37.440 you're saying we could die and there's

00:41:39.960 this moment where where Jesus has in the

00:41:42.140 show has this like he and Jonathan the

00:41:44.800 actor and I talked about this he's like

00:41:46.520 I I see the future but I can't

00:41:49.060 communicate it to them just yet they

00:41:50.940 need to have it kind of delivered in

00:41:53.380 in small pieces so you see his face

00:41:56.400 change and he's he's very sad but he

00:41:58.780 says there will come a time when you

00:42:01.940 face the kind of persecution that I'm

00:42:03.540 facing and and then you will know what

00:42:06.300 it truly means to give up your life but

00:42:09.140 that's not on on this trip you know on

00:42:11.400 this trip will it'll it'll it'll feel

00:42:12.980 different and we've heard from so many

00:42:15.960 people who've seen that scene who felt

00:42:17.940 personally convicted about their own

00:42:20.380 like they're like well he's called me to

00:42:21.860 to be sent and for me to sacrifice and

00:42:24.540 me to be willing to give up my life if

00:42:26.620 necessary and that's the most affirming

00:42:30.460 thing I can ever hear about the show is

00:42:32.040 when people say oh that scene was for me as

00:42:35.360 much as it was for them that takes the

00:42:37.660 apostles off of stained glass windows

00:42:39.340 that takes them down from the statues

00:42:41.300 where they're standing there regally and

00:42:42.900 makes right you go oh I I'm that I'm

00:42:46.480 him I'm her and that's that's that's my

00:42:50.100 that's the favorite thing that I ever

00:42:51.380 hear from from viewers is when there's a

00:42:53.040 connection to that and it's it's not you

00:42:55.820 know in Sunday school growing up you know

00:42:58.220 you sometimes see Jesus portrayed on a

00:43:00.260 flanagraph and he's wearing the white

00:43:02.200 robe and and he's smiling perfectly white

00:43:04.700 yes exactly he didn't live in he's got

00:43:06.620 to have some cologne on of some sort as

00:43:09.420 well it was clearly being laundered every

00:43:12.520 every couple hours out in the desert but

00:43:15.160 the chosen this the theme of season

00:43:19.380 three is come to me all you who are weary

00:43:21.100 and heavy laden and I will give you rest

00:43:22.820 we don't skip over the weary and heavy

00:43:24.620 laden part and season three is a tough

00:43:26.560 tough season because we we portray the

00:43:29.380 kinds of things that we face today that

00:43:31.620 we know they face then and Jesus doesn't

00:43:34.540 erase it all he just is present well

00:43:38.140 Christmas is right around the corner

00:43:39.480 which means you're probably tearing your

00:43:40.980 hair out trying to figure out oh wait

00:43:43.120 who did we forget if you have somebody on

00:43:45.920 your list it's hard to shop for give him

00:43:48.880 the most essential gift of the year meat

00:43:52.080 the Bill Murray what was the Scrooged is

00:43:56.900 five pounds of beef you get it in a great

00:44:01.100 box and it comes from good ranchers they

00:44:04.500 have gift boxes they can send them out

00:44:07.860 you can get an awesome discount on an

00:44:09.980 order of five boxes or more and it is

00:44:12.600 100 percent American USDA prime upper

00:44:17.320 choice cuts of beef chicken and seafood

00:44:20.400 sometimes you go to the grocery store and

00:44:22.860 you'll say product of USA it's not a lot of

00:44:27.400 that meat that has that sticker it doesn't

00:44:30.460 mean that it was farmed in America that

00:44:34.240 could be from China it's crazy this is US

00:44:38.360 beef and we've got to take care of our

00:44:40.600 farmers and our ranchers go to good

00:44:42.660 ranchers.com use the promo code Glenn at

00:44:45.200 checkout get $35 off the delicious gift of

00:44:48.720 meat again it's good ranchers.com promo

00:44:52.280 code Glenn I think this is like perfect

00:44:56.800 timing at least for me when where I am in

00:45:01.200 my view of things but what's must be

00:45:07.480 strange for you you know when Lucille Ball

00:45:12.040 had her baby first time anybody was

00:45:15.820 pregnant first time baby was gonna you

00:45:18.500 know be born 70 percent of every

00:45:23.160 television every person that had a

00:45:25.980 television 70 percent of them were

00:45:27.800 watching that night hey I knew what it

00:45:32.800 was like at Fox was not you know it was

00:45:37.060 three million a night there's something

00:45:40.380 about that because you can feel it this

00:45:43.780 is spilling out into people's lives all

00:45:47.720 the time yeah how does how do you how do

00:45:54.320 you react to that how is what because

00:45:56.400 this feels right this year to me yeah

00:45:59.240 but it might hit somebody four years down

00:46:02.080 the road oh sure you know what I mean

00:46:03.580 yeah so when we when we launch each of

00:46:05.940 our episodes right now season three

00:46:07.720 coming out each Sunday night you know

00:46:09.300 Sunday night seven o'clock Eastern we

00:46:11.520 we have a big live stream on YouTube

00:46:13.160 Facebook and the chosen app and and it's

00:46:15.760 all at once and we get you know a couple

00:46:17.300 hundred thousand people show up for

00:46:19.580 that but 99 percent of our viewers are

00:46:23.500 watching this over the course of multiple

00:46:25.400 years and there's still plenty of people

00:46:27.280 who all run into who go hey you know

00:46:29.620 you're Dallas James the creator of the

00:46:30.580 chosen yeah yeah and they're like I just

00:46:32.340 started season one yeah and I'm like oh

00:46:34.820 yeah season one that was I was like I've

00:46:37.000 made that four years ago it came out a

00:46:38.660 year and a half ago the season one just

00:46:40.220 debuted on Netflix a couple weeks ago and

00:46:42.520 it's going really well on Netflix and so

00:46:44.540 I mean and it's translated into 25

00:46:46.320 languages on Netflix so there's people

00:46:47.720 all over the world discovering it and

00:46:51.060 and that's the that's that's the the

00:46:53.640 weird thing about it is they're they're

00:46:55.400 talking about how I was so moved by and

00:46:58.180 and I'm assuming they're gonna mention

00:46:59.640 something that I just did and they're

00:47:01.600 like when Jesus redeems Mary in a bar and

00:47:05.420 I'm like oh that's episode one season

00:47:06.780 one oh yeah that's right okay I gotta

00:47:08.380 refresh my memory but yeah this is a

00:47:10.880 living breathing constantly changing

00:47:13.900 it's almost movies changed when the

00:47:17.940 videotape you know came out and they

00:47:21.320 could have that extra life television's

00:47:24.800 always been television and you know when

00:47:26.780 the DVD came out I guess you know some

00:47:29.040 shows but now this is almost like music

00:47:34.440 it is yeah that's a good point it just

00:47:37.060 lives at any time anywhere in the world

00:47:40.960 and will continue to affect for decades

00:47:45.280 well and right now we're only reaching

00:47:48.140 the tip of the iceberg when it comes to

00:47:50.900 the show expanding around the world

00:47:52.680 because you know we just established a

00:47:55.800 new partnership with a nonprofit that's

00:47:59.220 going to be raising and it already has

00:48:01.980 hundreds of millions of dollars to

00:48:03.480 translate it into hundreds of languages

00:48:05.240 and so what's happening in the states

00:48:08.120 with the chosen is starting to happen

00:48:10.020 and I mean it's starting to really blow

00:48:11.760 up in Brazil the Philippines India

00:48:15.320 there's places where it's starting to

00:48:16.740 grow we're trying to catch up with it I

00:48:18.400 mean it's growing bigger than we can

00:48:19.660 keep up with and they're going to your

00:48:21.820 point they're going we just saw season

00:48:23.520 one which we had it we had translated

00:48:25.520 you know a couple years ago they're like

00:48:27.060 all right season two translation and I'm

00:48:29.080 going hey the translation takes longer

00:48:31.420 to do than it does to watch like this is

00:48:34.640 hard there's hundreds of languages but

00:48:36.060 it's it's growing and the demand for it

00:48:37.660 is growing so big we're trying to keep

00:48:38.860 up with it we're establishing an

00:48:39.940 international team and trying to to get

00:48:42.080 it out there but the other thing that's

00:48:43.980 interesting to your point is and this is

00:48:46.700 also like music how many times have you

00:48:48.660 heard the same song that you love or

00:48:51.100 that has spoken to you and and sometimes

00:48:53.740 being a father now a song has huge

00:48:57.220 meaning compared to what it did when you

00:48:59.580 were a teenager yeah and so we have

00:49:02.460 people who say I people who will say

00:49:09.440 to me I watch the scene of Jesus and

00:49:13.400 Mary or I watch the scene of of Jesus

00:49:16.240 healing the paralytic or Jesus calling

00:49:18.000 Matthew once a month because it or I

00:49:22.120 just watch it again for the 50th time

00:49:24.300 because it it it comforts me or brings

00:49:27.780 me so much like I like it they need to

00:49:30.340 they need to see it again to remind

00:49:32.480 them of of who Jesus is and and that's

00:49:37.940 really cool too when when when unlike

00:49:40.280 television back then when Lucy Ball had

00:49:42.380 her baby you watched it needs done that

00:49:44.600 you didn't get a chance to see it again

00:49:45.560 unless it was maybe in a rerun during the

00:49:47.040 summer and then that was it yeah so

00:49:48.880 that's I think this show is uniquely

00:49:53.420 positioned for such a time as this

00:49:55.100 because it can it can can heal people

00:49:58.560 repeatedly and yes and build yeah and

00:50:00.540 even because the seasons that this is the

00:50:03.060 third time we've watched the chosen

00:50:05.480 start to wherever you are because the

00:50:08.160 seasons take a while and then when you

00:50:09.660 have the new season we're back watching

00:50:11.440 it from the beginning you want to kind of

00:50:12.700 catch up yeah the portrayal of the

00:50:18.760 women on the on the path and and thank

00:50:24.280 you for your portrayal of Mary Magdalene

00:50:27.280 I don't I think she's I think she gets

00:50:31.960 slighted not a lot and I think she was

00:50:39.440 most likely a really truly remarkable

00:50:42.740 woman as you portray yeah and the

00:50:45.720 actress who plays her is a miracle yeah

00:50:48.440 you've shown it I think once I'm trying

00:50:58.720 to remember the woman who is traveling

00:51:02.740 her father was like you know wait you're

00:51:06.040 gonna go out on the road and I can't

00:51:08.020 remember now Rhema is the name of the

00:51:09.600 actor of the character she's not from

00:51:11.560 scripture but she's right yeah she's a

00:51:13.520 matched with Thomas yeah the apostle and

00:51:17.020 and so they're traveling that did not

00:51:20.460 happen I mean it happened in the

00:51:23.240 scriptures yeah but back then that was

00:51:26.100 unheard of right yeah so women back then

00:51:32.000 were property may be too strong of a word

00:51:36.400 but they they their fathers controlled

00:51:41.300 their lives including who they who they

00:51:44.460 married and and so then when they were

00:51:50.160 married then then they belong to their

00:51:52.980 husbands in a case in a sense but when

00:51:57.360 you read the Gospels there's some things

00:51:59.120 that you can pick up on that are pretty

00:52:00.920 surprising one is there were women who

00:52:02.880 followed Jesus traveled with him and

00:52:04.480 actually supported the ministry right

00:52:06.700 because the the the disciples they gave

00:52:09.300 up their their jobs to become official

00:52:11.280 rabbinical students that's what would

00:52:13.260 happen when you would follow a rabbi you'd

00:52:14.700 give up everything and you'd follow the

00:52:15.820 rabbi well a woman wouldn't be an

00:52:18.200 official rabbinical student but she

00:52:21.140 still followed Jesus wanted to be around

00:52:22.980 the ministry wanted to be around the

00:52:25.060 sermons so they had the jobs so when we

00:52:29.640 when people talk about our portrayal of

00:52:31.160 women in the show and they they talk

00:52:34.700 about how we honor them and give them

00:52:35.960 strength and I'm like yeah but that's

00:52:37.620 that's not as that's not as anti that's

00:52:40.380 not as against type as as you might have

00:52:42.520 expected now to your question

00:52:43.920 rhema who plays um who's who's the

00:52:48.600 daughter of a man named coughny who was

00:52:51.020 at the in our portrayal the feet the

00:52:53.000 wedding at cana this is episode five of

00:52:55.340 season one is when we meet her she and

00:52:56.920 thomas are the caterers the wine

00:52:59.680 providers for the wedding and they see

00:53:02.060 this miracle and so they they want to

00:53:04.800 follow Jesus well the father of rhema

00:53:07.480 has to give permission she can't just

00:53:09.580 leave the house and go off a it wouldn't

00:53:11.660 be safe but be um even in jewish law like

00:53:15.240 she would have been living outside of the

00:53:17.200 authority of her of her father um so it's

00:53:20.960 it's been a really cool way for us to

00:53:22.820 explore some of that by showing just how

00:53:25.560 big of a deal that would have been um and

00:53:28.760 so yeah her character uh her father

00:53:32.520 especially who's not a believer who

00:53:33.900 finds even Jesus to potentially be

00:53:35.460 blasphemous but we portray it as though

00:53:38.020 Jesus did a miracle that saved his

00:53:39.640 business and so he's kind of like all

00:53:41.080 right I feel like my daughter really

00:53:42.540 wants to follow you I'm gonna allow

00:53:43.760 this um Thomas you better keep her safe

00:53:48.140 Jesus you better take care of her so we

00:53:51.240 portray some of those kind of family

00:53:52.960 dynamics and the gospels talk about that

00:53:55.220 they say I will cause division in your

00:53:58.360 household right you may you're you know

00:54:01.000 there may be even hatred within your

00:54:03.960 family because following me actually

00:54:06.880 takes precedence what's the process like

00:54:09.440 when you go off script when you go off of

00:54:15.440 scripture yeah and you're trying to tell

00:54:17.800 something and you're writing scenes that

00:54:20.080 are out of your head what is the pressure

00:54:24.280 and the process like to write that yeah

00:54:26.940 for sure uh you're it's it's a it's a

00:54:29.960 tightrope and and I don't always have

00:54:31.800 the balance on it that I'm trying to

00:54:33.300 find uh so the the one word that is the

00:54:38.200 banner above all that we write is

00:54:39.840 plausible now that applies biblically

00:54:42.260 spiritually historically culturally and

00:54:44.640 artistically which is um this isn't a

00:54:48.360 traditional bible show in the sense that

00:54:50.020 we're not just reenacting verse by verse

00:54:52.340 miracle by miracle which has been done

00:54:54.960 before and done well and and I'm not this

00:54:57.400 isn't trying to replace that uh this is a

00:54:59.820 show about the people of first century

00:55:01.020 galilee it's a it's a historical drama

00:55:02.900 using the bible is the primary source of

00:55:04.580 truth and inspiration so when I go off

00:55:07.380 script which is actually the majority of

00:55:08.680 the time I mean they're in the bible

00:55:10.420 jesus never said hello you know I mean

00:55:12.760 he didn't never says jesus uh you know

00:55:15.160 said good night yeah exactly or was you

00:55:17.800 know eating a piece of bread and while he

00:55:19.380 was talking to his friends um so it's

00:55:23.100 dangerous territory we're we're we're

00:55:25.160 walking through and waters to to wade in

00:55:27.580 we operate from is this plausible now the

00:55:30.440 answer to that question is is is a tough

00:55:32.380 one sometimes but does this fit within the

00:55:35.020 character and intentions of jesus in the

00:55:36.880 gospels and uh i have bible um consultants

00:55:43.040 that i that i work with who read all our

00:55:44.880 scripts they don't have veto power because

00:55:46.960 and they're and they're different

00:55:48.080 religions yeah so i have a catholic

00:55:49.880 priest a messianic jewish rabbi and an

00:55:51.740 evangelical scholar i'm an evangelical so

00:55:53.760 um i'm gonna obviously see things through

00:55:56.960 that perspective and i'm the final say i

00:55:58.760 mean even if i disagree with one of them

00:56:00.260 we have another process where if there's

00:56:02.100 disagreement we kind of take it to a few

00:56:03.600 more people and and and we only we only

00:56:06.220 go farther than that if there's what we

00:56:08.460 would call a red flag meaning if if

00:56:10.600 especially my uh my messianic jewish

00:56:13.400 rabbi who who uh really has a great

00:56:16.200 handle on the history of it if he says

00:56:18.500 this would never happen like red flag

00:56:22.320 right then i'm gonna take that very

00:56:24.740 seriously that's not gonna be something i

00:56:26.100 go well we disagree yeah yeah yeah so but

00:56:28.740 that's very rare i mean it's happened

00:56:30.120 maybe once or twice has there been

00:56:31.480 something that you all really agonized

00:56:34.540 over that did make it in yeah um so in

00:56:38.820 season one uh we introduce you to simon

00:56:42.380 as someone who is fishing on shabbat he's

00:56:45.960 breaking jewish law to um to to feed his

00:56:51.440 family to pay his taxes all this stuff

00:56:53.120 and rabbi jason sobel who's our consultant

00:56:56.060 said it wouldn't happen jews do not break

00:56:58.400 make the sabbath and i said okay well what

00:57:01.660 if we portray it as a huge deal like what

00:57:05.000 if we like because the exceptions in the

00:57:07.260 case of breaking sabbath law were when your

00:57:09.600 life is at stake um and i can't even

00:57:11.900 pronounce the term but it's uh picas

00:57:13.840 koknefesh or something i'm butchering it

00:57:17.260 so forgive me my jewish brothers and

00:57:18.720 sisters but uh which is if your life is

00:57:21.340 at stake then you can then you can break a

00:57:24.760 sabbath rule so what if we portray it as

00:57:26.940 simon really believes his life is at stake

00:57:28.740 here he's just he might be wrong but he's

00:57:30.320 doing so rabbi jason kind of reluctantly

00:57:33.060 tolerated that i mean and so because we

00:57:36.360 portrayed it as a big deal there are people

00:57:39.800 yes there are good people religious people

00:57:42.580 who are not diehard religious people who

00:57:45.320 would go with that yeah my life is at stake

00:57:48.320 and it's a little it's a little snaky but

00:57:51.060 it's also well i even think simon i would

00:57:54.140 have considered him a diehard religious

00:57:55.420 person but i would also say he was a diehard

00:57:57.260 everything i mean simon peter he he did

00:58:00.840 everything like a bull in a china shop and

00:58:02.760 so it's so to me it was plausible that he

00:58:05.360 could go i am a practicing jew but right

00:58:09.080 now i have no my life is at stake because

00:58:11.720 if i don't if i don't pay these taxes if i'm

00:58:14.700 not able to survive and and so it's it's a

00:58:17.360 you know we the plot of it you can see in

00:58:19.280 season one but that was the kind of thing

00:58:21.120 that we that we wrestled with there's

00:58:22.360 another moment in season two uh that was

00:58:25.380 uh season two episode five is probably the

00:58:28.240 most controversial episode we've done it

00:58:29.760 has a few moments that were controversial for

00:58:31.440 people one is mary magdalene relapses

00:58:33.980 oh she's someone who'd been redeemed by

00:58:36.180 jesus walking this the straight and narrow

00:58:39.000 path healed from her uh her her alcoholism

00:58:42.960 and their demon possession and she gets

00:58:45.900 triggered by a few things and has a relapse

00:58:47.740 and uh in that same episode jesus has a

00:58:51.640 couple of conversations with john the

00:58:52.880 baptist and they have some arguments they

00:58:54.740 like our two cousins they have some teasing

00:58:56.920 each other they have some arguments i love

00:58:58.520 that yeah see and so did my messianic jewish

00:59:01.160 rabbi who was like because some people were

00:59:03.220 really upset with that and also evangelicals

00:59:05.040 who were like you if you have two rabbis you've

00:59:07.760 got three opinions

00:59:08.760 that's conservative yeah but uh all my jewish

00:59:14.460 friends who were like because it was mostly

00:59:16.800 evangelicals who were like john the baptist

00:59:18.660 had huge respect for jesus and which is of

00:59:21.200 course true but um they have not been around

00:59:24.480 enough jews yes that's that's they argue

00:59:27.120 and it doesn't they're not mad they're just

00:59:29.920 they that's how they're learning that's how

00:59:31.940 they learn and so jesus is is uh is saying to

00:59:34.520 john the baptist certain things and john's

00:59:35.860 like wait a minute well why why don't you do

00:59:37.440 this and i'm and and and jesus has an answer

00:59:39.860 you know and that's how john is learning so

00:59:41.560 that scene was controversial for some people

00:59:43.680 but then the big one uh 10 seconds that kind

00:59:47.120 of broke the internet when it happened is jesus

00:59:48.820 preparing for a sermon the big sermon on the

00:59:51.420 mount and he's by himself and he's kind of

00:59:53.640 working through the words that he's going

00:59:55.220 to say i loved that and he's like salt has

00:59:57.960 lost its flavor no no he's kind of working

01:00:00.160 through it and there were some people who

01:00:01.300 lost their minds just were like he's god he

01:00:03.940 never struggled with anything and and i'm

01:00:07.040 like well this isn't sin this is this is jesus

01:00:10.520 genuinely thinking i'm going to be speaking

01:00:12.800 to thousands of people i'm god i want to

01:00:16.320 trend i want to i want to say things in a

01:00:18.120 way that they're going to also man and he's

01:00:20.320 also man i don't think i mean this idea that

01:00:23.380 jesus is born all knowing i don't there there

01:00:28.500 would be no struggle then well the scripture

01:00:30.520 says he grew in wisdom and stature which

01:00:32.960 means that and we're still at the kind of the

01:00:35.260 beginning of his ministry at that point and he

01:00:37.620 is still trying to yeah i thought it was great

01:00:40.420 yeah and well and many people did in fact the

01:00:42.640 majority of people thought it was beautiful but

01:00:45.180 there were some people who have a very uh what i

01:00:47.800 would consider to be a rigid view of jesus now to

01:00:49.720 be clear i don't know for a fact that jesus

01:00:52.180 sure struggled with the words to try to figure

01:00:54.720 out what he was going to say it's not fact um the

01:00:57.620 whole hypostatic union god man fully god fully

01:01:00.640 man has vexed people for 2 000 years it's not

01:01:03.300 going to be solved from a comment on youtube

01:01:04.900 but there were plenty of people who thought they

01:01:07.840 could solve it with their youtube comment and i'm

01:01:09.720 not trying to solve it either i'm saying i think

01:01:11.680 this is plausible i think it's actually really

01:01:13.860 beautiful and you know season um episode

01:01:18.240 three of season three which i don't what you

01:01:21.020 haven't seen yet but i can't wait for you to

01:01:22.700 see it because i think i think you're going to

01:01:23.860 absolutely love it we show jesus going to his

01:01:25.440 hometown of nazareth and it's a famous gospel

01:01:29.340 story where he preaches in the synagogue and he

01:01:31.120 asserts that he's the savior yeah and it it doesn't

01:01:34.480 go well it doesn't go suboptimal well said um and

01:01:40.500 that's actually the moment in the in the uh the

01:01:42.820 trailer where where the man says you i the

01:01:45.160 pharisee says uh if you do not renounce your

01:01:47.720 words we have no choice but to follow the look of

01:01:49.260 book of moses which is when where moses said you you

01:01:52.040 kill false prophets and jesus says i am the law of

01:01:54.540 moses well uh in that episode we see him going to his

01:01:58.340 childhood home he goes to his mom's house she's got

01:02:00.480 food for him he stays in his childhood room the next

01:02:03.420 morning they go to the the festival rosh hashanah where

01:02:05.660 they're all celebrating it's a carnival he plays a game

01:02:08.260 with his with his childhood friends he's lousy at

01:02:10.520 it he was never good at sports um some of those

01:02:13.520 things uh when when you think about like uh how much

01:02:17.880 could jesus bench press you know was he good at sports

01:02:21.520 right and i think sometimes we think well of course he's

01:02:23.940 perfect he's god he could do anything he's not

01:02:25.760 superman he's not superman he grew up in wisdom and

01:02:28.100 stature we also show a flashback of jesus as a six

01:02:32.320 year old and his father joseph is teaching him some of

01:02:36.800 his carpentry and while that's happening jesus is

01:02:39.400 learning to read and there's this moment where jesus six

01:02:42.600 year old jesus is like reading some scripture and he's

01:02:45.800 sounding out the words and joseph is saying i'll sound it

01:02:48.720 out and he's like bro keen he's like broken broken he arted

01:02:53.940 hearted you know broken what's that word what is broken

01:02:56.120 hearted jesus says what is what is that what is broken

01:02:57.980 hearted and joseph is saying it's a heart that's broken and

01:03:00.820 it's not the heart in your chest it's and portraying that and

01:03:06.900 exploring that to me i i fell more in love with jesus just even

01:03:10.500 in the writing of that scene because i'm like

01:03:12.260 did he was he born knowing how to read yeah of course not

01:03:15.800 was he born knowing how to walk of course not

01:03:18.040 that's the beautiful thing about the story right

01:03:20.460 and so i do think that we sometimes don't i think we sometimes miss out on

01:03:25.420 that and and so that to me was that figuring out what he wants to say to me

01:03:29.800 was part of this whole beautiful story of of god

01:03:34.220 becoming man um i don't know if you know i'm a i'm a

01:03:37.700 painter and um this um this year i'm gonna

01:03:44.020 paint a painting of judas which i never

01:03:47.400 never thought you know um but it's really because of the chosen

01:03:54.580 that i because he is always he's always um he's

01:04:03.380 hated he turned christ in turned christ in

01:04:06.420 but also if it wasn't for him you know it was a job

01:04:10.700 that had to be done um and i

01:04:16.560 the fact that he hung himself

01:04:20.400 uh he knew he knew um and if christ if he would if he wouldn't hung himself

01:04:28.300 christ would have forgiven him if he was

01:04:30.200 sorry you know um how are you going to portray

01:04:35.520 are you looking at him as more of a josephus kind of

01:04:40.620 character from from history of there's a lot of false messiahs out there

01:04:46.260 i mean the hills were full right of people saying they were the messiah

01:04:49.880 people don't realize that jesus was just one of many at his day

01:04:55.040 and they were all warriors all of them they were all expecting warriors

01:05:01.200 and you see it in the second sea or yeah second season where

01:05:06.700 they're like but why aren't we like when are we gonna build an army

01:05:10.900 right you know um so it would be logical that he would say he's not

01:05:17.500 the messiah right how are you going to play him

01:05:21.040 well i can't give all of that but you're seeing the hints now so in season

01:05:25.240 three judas uh has now is now following jesus

01:05:29.240 goes home to kind of settle his affairs and talks to his sister

01:05:31.980 and his sister says exactly what you just talked about

01:05:34.860 she's like you're you're following this messiah

01:05:37.340 the romans don't like uh messiahs the jews don't like false messiahs

01:05:43.220 uh they kill people who who are false prophets and and and judas says

01:05:48.240 which is a line that people have said just broke their hearts he says if he's

01:05:52.600 the messiah he won't be killed i mean think about the ramifications of

01:05:56.640 that of judas saying that he really believed though there's i think

01:06:01.060 it's unarguable that judas joined the team believing

01:06:05.400 and healed sick like the other disciples cast out demons like the other apostles

01:06:11.280 we show that actually in episode four of season three

01:06:13.580 which is coming soon he uh the scenes that we're portraying of judas now

01:06:19.220 are i'm hearing from people are heartbreaking

01:06:22.460 when he meets jesus in episode one jesus says

01:06:26.140 uh so your name the meaning of your name judas

01:06:28.920 i mean judas actually means praising god with your hands

01:06:31.740 and jesus says yes judas says yeah praise god and jesus says

01:06:35.580 with your hands and jesus says well so will you praise god

01:06:38.560 he says yes with my whole heart you know um so

01:06:42.920 absolutely judas believed that he was the messiah

01:06:47.560 at least initially uh without giving much away

01:06:51.360 i do believe that ultimately judas was was saying

01:06:56.300 all right i'll say this delicately poop or get off the pot

01:07:01.200 like if you're the messiah do your thing

01:07:05.180 and if you're not the messiah then we we need to know now

01:07:09.700 because otherwise we're doing a lot of damage

01:07:12.940 because a lot of people more than normal more than normal messiahs

01:07:16.940 that have come along are following you

01:07:19.640 um and judas saw miracles

01:07:21.880 so when did he actually stop believing jesus was the messiah

01:07:28.040 and are you gonna

01:07:29.520 are you gonna show that's what i want to paint is

01:07:33.940 the moment after

01:07:35.600 yeah where he knows

01:07:37.820 that

01:07:38.920 what he's done

01:07:40.520 yeah

01:07:41.020 are you gonna spend time in that

01:07:43.560 period

01:07:44.300 of course

01:07:44.860 yeah

01:07:45.120 yeah of course i mean

01:07:46.660 that's that's the thing that

01:07:48.180 what we're setting up now

01:07:49.740 with judas and introducing you to judas i think is what's going to make

01:07:53.240 seasons six and seven that much more painful

01:07:56.060 um and people are already saying that now

01:07:58.240 as they're saying the first couple seasons are like i can't

01:08:01.080 when i start to think about what's coming

01:08:02.800 it's even worse than normal for me because i now feel like i know

01:08:06.520 the disciples i know his mother i know

01:08:08.940 i've seen jesus laugh and dance oh my goodness i don't want to see him on the

01:08:12.420 cross you know and that's that's what they experienced

01:08:14.760 um and that's why it's going to be painful i'm not going to shy away from it

01:08:17.480 obviously

01:08:17.800 but the judas stuff is especially painful and uh

01:08:21.240 we wouldn't be the chosen if we didn't

01:08:24.800 if we if if we skipped over it and just tried to

01:08:28.460 and then judas betrayed him and then he hung himself

01:08:30.320 right

01:08:30.700 no it's it

01:08:31.660 that's usually what you get

01:08:33.000 yeah it demands demand demand some time

01:08:35.220 um because i think we need to feel the weight of it

01:08:37.280 and i think we also need to feel

01:08:38.300 um our own

01:08:40.000 our own culpability in it

01:08:41.960 as as flawed sinful human beings of who he was dying for

01:08:45.600 to tell you if you believe troubled times are coming

01:08:49.380 i pray i'm not a judas you know

01:08:53.740 or a simon peter who yeah who denied and denied him

01:08:57.100 i mean think and when you betray portray that it's gonna hit home to people i think

01:09:03.140 for people who who for for for guys who saw his miracles ate with him

01:09:07.360 yeah drank with him went to weddings with him

01:09:10.920 knew saw his miracles and still when a couple of them when faced with

01:09:15.020 the threat go went

01:09:17.240 now what's what's interesting is

01:09:19.380 once he rose spoiler alert

01:09:21.840 season seven

01:09:23.520 wait wait what

01:09:24.540 yeah sorry

01:09:25.080 uh when when he resurrected

01:09:28.020 they all were like

01:09:29.580 never again i mean they

01:09:31.900 yeah that's one of the greatest uh

01:09:34.300 evidence for it

01:09:35.260 is how passionately they were like

01:09:37.100 we saw him rise from the dead

01:09:39.020 he conquered death

01:09:40.300 we don't care if we die

01:09:41.540 right

01:09:41.940 are you taking this

01:09:44.240 beyond his resurrection

01:09:46.220 will you go into

01:09:47.540 paul and

01:09:49.000 well right now i'm

01:09:51.440 apostles

01:09:51.760 right now i'm trying to just get season four written

01:09:53.960 and uh and at the end of season seven i'm going to take a year-long nap

01:09:57.800 but um season seven will go past his resurrection yes

01:10:02.300 but it's not going to go into the whole

01:10:03.880 all the book of acts where all the disciples are

01:10:05.920 that that will that'll be another show or series of movies

01:10:08.720 we're talking about that now but uh i'm trying not to get the cart before the

01:10:12.520 horse um it's really really hard to do a tv show and to have it be good and

01:10:16.740 and uh so i got plenty to work on now but but yeah i i think if if if god

01:10:21.800 calls me to be telling bible stories the rest of my life i could do a lot worse

01:10:26.000 so we'd love to tell those stories the apostle paul uh

01:10:29.680 obviously one of the greatest stories in the history of humanity uh potentially just second

01:10:35.380 only to jesus in terms of the impact he had on the world he wrote the majority of the new

01:10:39.320 testament uh and if you want to talk about a great conversion conversion story a drama i mean

01:10:46.020 you know there's no better drama than death to life than blindness to sight than

01:10:49.560 and killing to to being killed for the same cause it's something so yeah i'd love to tell that story

01:10:55.660 but uh but i gotta figure this out first thank you for what you've done with nicodemus too

01:11:00.800 yeah i love that character yeah and kind of quickly mentioned in the bible but you've really made him

01:11:09.140 um real yeah what a great actor too eric who plays him in that season one he's just he's astonishing

01:11:19.220 but but yeah i think it is also one of the reasons we chose him as a main character was

01:11:23.220 um kind of the double agent that nicodemus clearly was in scripture and this is this goes to an

01:11:29.100 important point you mentioned he's briefly mentioned in scripture this if you want to know like how does

01:11:33.500 the show how does the chosen get made you you can look at nicodemus because we look at what's

01:11:39.860 mentioned in scripture and then we work our way backwards and we then we build around that so we see

01:11:43.860 him first meeting jesus in secret uh asking him all these questions clearly believing that jesus is

01:11:50.080 the son of god but not knowing what to do with it not fully understanding it but saying look i've seen

01:11:53.640 it the miracles you clearly are from god but he can't admit it publicly because he's a pharisee and

01:12:00.460 he's part of this group of people who actually are opposing jesus so he meets with jesus under cover of

01:12:04.560 night the next time we see him is when jesus is being discussed by the sanhedrin in jerusalem and

01:12:10.900 they're going what do we do with this guy i think we need to kill him and nicodemus kind of goes hey

01:12:15.140 maybe we should consider giving him a fair trial like we normally do you know like he doesn't come

01:12:20.140 out and say hey i've met him he's the son of god i've seen the miracles he's like hey would you

01:12:24.760 consider uh yeah just a fair trial how about that still not willing to come out of the shadows

01:12:31.020 jesus dies and then what nicodemus then i believe uh almost like a guilt offering contributes tens of

01:12:41.960 thousands of dollars worth of perfumes and spices helps bury the body now there's no being in the

01:12:46.820 closet about this and i believe you can the the the secret is in john chapter three john chapter three

01:12:55.380 jesus is talking to nicodemus and mentions moses and that during the time of moses we actually

01:13:01.420 portrayed this moment in in as a flashback in the episode that uh that people the israelis were dying

01:13:07.960 of serpent bites and god had moses fashioned a pole that was shaped like a cross actually that's how you

01:13:14.520 when you read it in the in the hebrew and he lifts it up and all you have to do is look at it

01:13:19.300 and you're saved from the serpent bites and you're healed he told that to nicodemus so you can

01:13:24.960 imagine when nicodemus is at the crucifixion and seeing jesus up on a on a cross and providing

01:13:33.040 the redemption that he had told nicodemus he was going to provide that nicodemus went oh

01:13:38.960 moses he's the new moses he's better than he's he's above new covenant the new covenant and like so

01:13:47.740 the opportunity to kind of portray that we can do that and actually stay very true to scripture

01:13:55.360 this is not this is not doesn't take a whole lot of artistic imagination to go john chapter three

01:14:00.060 later in the book he shows up again and he's completely committed to jesus not hiding it anymore

01:14:06.280 that's a fascinating storyline to portray and very i believe relatable to us today

01:14:11.760 because there's plenty of people who are religious and who are practicing something

01:14:17.440 and who really don't truly know jesus and i think that's those are the ones who can identify with

01:14:23.780 nicodemus thank you for everything you've done oh thank you for for having me i i uh i've i've loved

01:14:30.880 i've chatted with you about this a few years ago right when the chosen was first coming and

01:14:34.360 you seem to be kind of in on it pretty quickly like i think you i think you seem to to sense i was

01:14:39.860 something was something yeah yeah there's um very few filmmakers um that could uh say i'm going to

01:14:53.960 make the jesus story that had the credibility that you had i mean i just it's beautiful it's just

01:15:02.940 beautiful well honestly i mean it's very kind of you to say but it's also uh i think some of that

01:15:08.760 credibility may come from abject surrender i mean i i i i am i may if any credibility i have is

01:15:16.520 because i believe i'm the only credibility i have comes from from him you know so it's a

01:15:21.520 billy graham told me once everything i've done that was great or worthy that was all his work

01:15:29.000 every mistake all mine all mine yeah yeah well thank you

01:15:34.260 just a reminder i'd love you to rate and subscribe to the podcast and pass this on to a friend so it

01:15:45.600 can be discovered by other people

01:15:46.860 you

The Glenn Beck Program - December 17, 2022

Ep 168 ｜ 'The Only Jesus Show My Kids Will Actually Watch' ｜ Dallas Jenkins ｜ The Glenn Beck Podcast

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