00:03:01.120Abortion takes nearly a million babies a year, just in America.
00:03:08.200So the pre-born network clinics step into the darkness and they shine a light into the mother's womb by introducing the precious life growing inside of her to the mom through an ultrasound.
00:03:19.800Once she hears the heartbeat, the maternal instincts kicked in.
00:03:24.000Majority of the time, she'll choose life.
00:05:45.980Maybe you should define what depression is, and then you can describe what you feel.
00:05:52.100But what are we talking about when we talk about depression?
00:05:55.880So, when we talk about depression, there's, you know, certain symptoms that you have to be experiencing for a certain period of time.
00:06:03.580And so, you know, as a clinician, there's the DSM-5 that we go to to diagnose depression and other mental health illnesses.
00:06:12.980So, some of the symptoms that occur are like isolation, just an inability to enjoy things that you normally would enjoy, trouble with sleep, sleeping too much, not sleeping enough, and so forth.
00:06:29.940And oftentimes these are unremitting symptoms that go on for at least two weeks.
00:06:36.060So, then there is, and people who have never had clinical depression, they don't know how to separate.
00:06:45.220They think, oh, well, just pull yourself up by the bootstraps, man.
00:06:56.660I can speak to that a little bit because I tell some people that growing up, I was a really high achiever.
00:07:06.560I graduated at 17 from high school and went to college and did really well, like spread my wings and was happy to be on my own.
00:07:16.340And about a year later, I started having symptoms for the first time.
00:07:21.060And the contrast between just having all this capacity and this ability to just kind of manage life on my terms, get up early, do what I needed to do.
00:07:33.240There's a story I tell people sometimes.
00:07:35.460I remember the first three years of my issues.
00:07:40.660I spent about 18 hours in bed every day.
00:07:43.700And I'd get out and kind of go hang out with some friends a little bit, but most of the time I isolated and I just had no energy.
00:07:51.580And I remember one time, I don't remember how far in, maybe a few months in, saying, Aaron, this isn't you.
00:08:31.740And to see that contrast between who I had been and what I was capable of and how little I felt I could really do in those moments, it was so heart-wrenching.
00:09:01.520Yeah, and you reaffirm that and you go in this process.
00:09:05.340And part of the reason I try to talk to people and be open about it is because I want people to see them for the way I see them.
00:09:13.860And to see the resilience it takes to manage a mental illness and to manage deep depression and to keep finding ways and reasons to keep going.
00:17:30.340I first met her at a church thing and I saw this girl across the room and she has this beautiful smile and this countenance, this aura of just happiness.
00:21:18.040Um, the most beautiful, loving person I'd ever met had to deal with self-injury issues with, from me, had to deal with my mood set.
00:21:29.280I couldn't, it was no longer just how I felt.
00:21:31.560I had to incorporate how someone else was affected and it was, it was a maturing process, but it was really hard.
00:21:38.060And we went back to the States and went back to school and the pressure of everything and being married.
00:21:43.920I, uh, I attempted suicide a second time because I thought she can move on.
00:21:50.920I can't, this is my burden to carry and I tried to carry it alone and, um, I, I don't wish this on anyone, but sitting in the hospital, waiting to know whether you're going to live or die.
00:22:07.060Um, I, I, I saw the love from the, from her, from Tiana that I didn't quite comprehend at that point.
00:22:17.300A, a Christ-like love, a love that I am going to stand here by your side, no matter what.
00:22:23.980And, um, I'm sad that it took me that to see it, but I have never had an attempt since I've gotten close and I've had difficult times, but I, I kept, you can speak to it better, but I feel like I kind of tried to be what I thought she needed instead of being an equal partner.
00:22:45.720So before we get you to answer that, did you see this coming in your relationship?
00:22:51.960This, the second attempt, I think before we got married, I really had to have this like internal introspection of like, can I handle all things?
00:23:04.320Like, can I handle best case scenario and worst case scenario?
00:23:08.180And I understood before we got married, that worst case scenario was like losing him.
00:23:14.680But for me, I, I, I saw him for who he was.
00:23:23.420And when we connected that, I mean, first night and all the other times that we went on all these dates, I saw his heart and his like love for people and God and his just, he was a good person.
00:23:37.960And I could see him like trying through the struggle.
00:23:57.000I have that, you know, I've, like he said, I've gone through hard things, but I could always come back to my mind and know that it was a safe place.
00:24:05.240That I can, your mind, most people don't understand if you haven't gone through something like this, your mind knows you better than it's like AI.
00:24:18.680It just goes around and a good friend of mine with alcoholism said, when you least expect it, expect it because it will seem completely rational to you to take that drink.
00:24:50.700Can I ask you something that I have to believe most people have asked you and if I were you, it would piss me off a little bit because of what you just said about your husband.
00:25:02.760But before you got married, you're not stupid.
00:25:06.660So you did examine, but I imagine people come up and say, why did you marry him in the first place?
00:25:47.440And so I think I would try to be as transparent as possible, but you can't know everything.
00:25:53.140Well, your father told me the other day that he tried to warn you and he said, when you said, I've prayed about it, I know, he said, who am I to argue with God?
00:26:48.200I mean, because, I mean, both of you guys at times, and I know, I don't know you're, I know you're not, but at times you both seem superhuman to me, you know, because, I mean, Tanya and I go through stuff all the time.
00:27:02.900And there are moments that you're like, okay, all right.
00:29:15.100And had I just gone and had the conversation with her, um, of where I really was and I might need to withdraw from school and I'm, I'm overwhelmed by everything.
00:29:26.480And, um, had that conversation with, we, we, um, I went into that hospital.
00:29:32.940The doctor said, there's a 35 to 40% chance you don't come out here alive.
00:29:37.180And, um, and then just waiting for that process.
00:29:43.180And I don't want to go into more detail, but when did you go, dear God, what have I done?
00:29:48.320Um, I had a weird experience cause there was an, I want to be careful how I talk to details, but I could have done something else in the process and it was right there to do it.
00:30:04.800And one of the first questions they asked when we got there was, did you do this as well as what you did?
00:30:13.000And I knew right then that that was, that that was the difference.
00:30:17.480And I didn't know a hundred percent out, like there was a chance I've had kidney, kidney damage and dialysis and there was still a lot to know.
00:30:24.620So was that in, whether you thought it or not at the time, was that a, almost a cry for help of, I'm not going that far.
00:31:40.660And for me, that was huge in that connection and trust.
00:31:44.080And even if I didn't know what to say, I could just tell him I loved him and just sit with him for hours at night and just, he didn't have to do this all alone.
00:35:50.380And one thing that has really helped me, um, there's some medical interventions that really helped, but one thing that really helped, um, was seeing the illness as an illness.
00:36:01.940And I think too many people, because it affects emotional states and, and, and kind of the cerebral cortex and, and kind of how you think and different things.
00:36:12.660We, we start to tie our self-worth to how we feel.
00:36:15.580I always tell people we react on emotion more than we think just normal people.
00:36:20.280We, when, when it's our birthday, we feel a little better.
00:36:22.700Or when we have something that happened on a day in the past, we have a trauma in the past.
00:36:27.340That day is going to be always a little harder than other days.
00:37:00.600You're not caging it, but you're kind of giving it place in you without living in it.
00:37:06.420Yeah. And, and one thing I've learned in, in years of depression that I, I never learned this from a book or therapy, but it, it kind of speaks generally is, is if we can learn to separate.
00:37:18.940Um, so when you feel depressed, usually you want to either escape it or you want to validate it.
00:37:26.320And so what I find a lot of young people do early on is they want to validate, they feel terrible and they want to reinforce by watching movies that are kind of disturbing by listening to music that reinforces that, that state.
00:37:39.940Because it then gives plate, it's like, okay, this is part of me.
00:37:44.160So this is, I mean, a very, um, surfacy kind of comparison.
00:37:51.680You break up with somebody, you want to listen to sad songs.
00:37:54.680Okay. Um, but that can go to the extreme and that digs you deeper into it.
00:40:29.820Well, and from, I'll speak from like a caregiver, loved one standpoint first.
00:40:34.440I think Aaron kind of touched on this, like no understanding that it's an illness.
00:40:38.780So if somebody has been like diagnosed or is chronically dealing with these depressive symptoms, as a caregiver, the best thing that you can do is, is recognize that it's an illness.
00:40:52.540It's not like they don't love you enough.
00:40:54.660So they're choosing to stay in bed or they don't care about you enough.
00:40:58.440So they don't want to go out with you or something like that.
00:41:39.140I have three children who have gone through this in the last year.
00:41:43.360And, um, and, and, and part of it, especially with teenagers, this society is so upside down, so screwed up and pouring just poison into them.
00:42:24.360And over years, I, I, I know when Aaron is, um, and I tell me if I'm not answering your question right, but I can tell when Aaron is really struggling and just not able to get up and out of bed.
00:42:37.560And I can tell when I can maybe push him a little bit.
00:42:40.000And if I get pushed back, then I step back.
00:42:42.820So I kind of know, like, I'm in therapy, therapists do this where it's like, we're going to push you a little bit, but not too far because we don't want you to shut down.
00:42:51.160You know, um, so I think that's a hard one to answer because it, it takes time and recognizing his triggers and him being aware.
00:43:01.360And I think also a big part is that open communication.
00:43:04.500Like I've, we've had a lot of conversations about like, I really need you to tell me when it's like, when you're starting to feel triggered or like, not, not when it's too late.
00:43:22.380And, and I've told my patients and their families, especially with, with kids, sometimes like they don't want to open up and share what they're feeling.
00:43:30.200Sometimes having like a code would, it sounds so cliche, but like, even if like pineapple, like pineapple means like I'm having suicidal thoughts or I, you know, define it beforehand, sit down with your loved one and come up with a plan.
00:43:45.280Cause sometimes they don't want to tell you, Hey, this is what I'm feeling.
00:43:48.720So tell me about ideation and then tell me why it's so important to know it.
00:44:00.020I, um, the best analogy I think of is it's a different application, but I remember being a boy scout when I was a lot young and getting a life-saving mirror badge.
00:44:09.220And they tell you when someone's drowning to come up from behind them, cause they'll try to drown you.
00:44:14.540And, and you think in that, that crisis of panic, how getting a breath is all that matters for that person drowning.
00:44:22.180Um, I think sometimes, um, suicidal ideation, similar, your body, your brain for different reasons, sometimes trigger, sometimes emotional, but mostly biochemical on some level.
00:44:36.280Um, your brain's kind of saying abort, like it can't deal with this level of stress or this level of difficulty.
00:44:46.140And the only answer is shutting the system down.
00:44:49.920And so it's almost like you're not consciously thinking about it.
00:44:56.180And it is often with sleep deprivation, stress.
00:44:59.920Um, and sometimes like you were saying earlier, it, it just comes out of the blue.
00:45:04.020Sometimes you wake up and you're thinking, this is a great day.
00:45:06.040And then two hours later, you're like, I wish I never woke up and, and you, you have to learn to live with that a little bit.
00:45:16.120For me, there's, there's, there are relief.
00:45:18.720Um, I've done four years of ketamine IVs, which have done more good for me and, and changing those pathways than anything, but it still comes.
00:45:30.000And, and knowing, knowing you don't have to act on it, um, creating that foundation where suicide isn't the answer, whether your brain is telling you it is or not, is so important.
00:46:26.320And, um, all of a sudden I'm thinking, oh, I'm back where I was and I don't like this.
00:46:33.560And, um, and so I, I went and binge ate and I'd been like 70 bucks on food, buying like a bunch of different food and ate and tried to soothe myself.
00:46:42.420And then I came home and was like, Hey, this isn't gonna, what we don't want to do is go self harm or go attempt.
00:47:09.000And she didn't see it coming and I didn't see it coming.
00:47:11.240And all of a sudden we're like, Hey, guess what?
00:47:12.860You need to clear your table for the next two days and do everything.
00:47:15.820And, and, and luckily I've found that that works and it can be helpful, but you know, every time is different.
00:47:22.660And then there's other times where you just, you try to distract, you try to just get sleep and get to bed eventually.
00:47:29.220But there's times where I have my kids and I can't take meds and I'm ideating.
00:47:35.060And so I'll call a neighbor and say, can you take, take my little ones for an hour?
00:47:40.120Or because I can't deal with the emotional stimulus and just have a little bit of a reprieve and, and you, you just find different tools.
00:47:49.140But the most important thing is, is realizing that this is kind of a, a symptom and it's not, it's not the truth.
00:47:58.220And that you still, I try to tell people all the time, there's always a balance between understanding the validity of the illness, that it is a real illness and disorder that you can't control.
00:48:08.920But there's always some circle of influence that you can control.
00:48:13.320And sometimes it's as simple as sleeping, medicating, and, and, um, you know, exercise if you can't even do that and, and, and just staying alive through the day.
00:48:25.100Like that's as far as it gets in other days, it is more, more than that, but just helping people understand, focus on what you can influence to get through the day and hope tomorrow's very AA in a way.
00:48:43.980Cause he, he was expressing it from his point of view.
00:48:49.620Let me talk to you about, um, when, when you say, I, you know, I'm depressed or I have somebody, the first question is, have you planned a way to do it?
00:51:26.580Um, so I have a, my oldest son's middle name is rich and he's named after a doctor that helped save my life.
00:51:34.840And I sat in his office after the first suicide attempt, probably a few months later, uh, dejected and, you know, had my hoodie on all the cliche, like staring at the ground.
00:51:46.200And, and he kept trying to tell me, we can try this med or we can try this med and dah, dah, dah, dah.
00:51:51.020And he just stopped in the middle of a sentence one.
00:51:53.520And he just looked at me and, um, he gave me, I won't go into details of what he said, but he pretty much said, I see you're trying everything you can.
00:52:05.160And he gave me permission to suffer and to, to look at those as options, like to think maybe there isn't an option.
00:52:13.640And it, it was so validating because here I was the same kid that had the straight A's at school before.
00:52:23.020Um, it was just a set of different set of circumstances.
00:52:26.100And you would think that a doctor would say, this is, you know, a layman doctor would say, don't, don't say there may not be an answer here.
00:52:35.600I need someone to look at me and say, I see how hard you're trying.
00:52:39.840And I frankly don't know if I can help you, but I want to.
00:52:42.920And I was like, okay, let's try something else.
00:52:47.260And, and I'm not saying it changed everything overnight, but it was the first time sometimes our support systems, especially if they don't understand mental health, they try to fix us because they love us.
00:53:00.160And they also try to fix us because it's hard for them and they don't want to see us suffering.
00:53:06.660And if you can get outside of that and, and walk the journey with the person and meet them where they are, and it doesn't have to be the same person for, it's not always a parent.
00:53:20.420Um, that meant so much to me that I named my firstborn son, which I only thought I was going to have one named him after that doctor because he saved my life.
00:53:28.720Well, and, and truthfully, when people are having suicidal ideation, they don't want to die.
00:54:43.380I mean, yeah, I I've learned a lot from making some stupid choices when I feel good, but there's always a balance.
00:54:53.640Um, sometimes I'm not very productive because when you feel really down for a long time and you feel really good, you're just like, I want to bask in it.
00:55:01.020I just want to sit in it and I don't want to really do anything.
00:55:06.480And, um, and, and then that must be hard for you in a way, because for a while until it gets really bad, you have your husband and he's feeling good.
00:55:25.680But he, but you know, I do understand when he says that, like, I, I felt so bad for like two weeks.
00:55:31.960I just want to enjoy connecting with my family.
00:55:35.340And the two, the two hardest, speaking to bipolar, just quickly, the two hardest places are when you go from feeling really good to crashing, because no matter how many times you've done it, that contrast really bites you in the butt.
00:55:50.700I mean, you just cringe and you're just like, why did I get, why was I so dumb when I was feeling good?
00:56:00.180And so in some ways I keep that in the back of my head now.
00:56:03.420Um, the other is when you get in a mixed state where you feel depressed, but have a lot of energy because you're impulsive and that's when you're, you're in danger of, of acting on it.
00:56:13.180When you're really depressed, you're like, yeah, I feel like dying, but I can't be bothered to get out of bed.
00:56:18.500I mean, I'm, I'm general that everyone's different, but sometimes you're like, yeah, I can't, I can't do it when you're in a mixed state.
00:56:26.700So any, anytime you can do anything, whether meds or psychologically or therapeutically to kind of mitigate the highs and lows, kind of stay in the middle a little more and not act out on the highs and lows.
00:56:42.240The, the, the more stability, what I found in time is what I really crave is stability.
00:56:47.360What I really crave is connecting with my children and not being in bed all day.
00:56:51.640And so I will forego some of the euphoria to stay in that place longer.
00:56:57.120And that as maturity, as I've grown older.
00:58:09.260So therapy for you, I would imagine is much different than the therapy for everyone else.
00:58:15.260But therapy for you, I would imagine is more of, okay, here are the, the mile markers and how to deal with the mile markers and, and judge yourself and judge reality.
00:58:29.120I think it's, I think there's a lot of therapy that kind of helps across the board with all like mental health issues.
00:58:37.680And especially like when it comes to like self-worth and some of the trauma that maybe you've experienced and, you know, therapy is all about kind of retraining those pathways, those connections that we've made.
00:58:48.680When we get triggered by like trauma or whatever trigger we may have, then we, we, our brain kind of goes down it, whether it's adaptive, meaning like a positive connection we've made or like maladaptive where it's not helpful to us and it will go there.
00:59:04.920So in therapy, you're retraining those maladaptive connections.
00:59:20.160So it misfiles it all over, you know, and puts pieces of it in different file cabinets.
00:59:25.620So when you see something, all of a sudden that file cabinet is opened up and that shouldn't, that fear or that memory or that feeling that you had from that comes out of that file cabinet and you don't know necessarily why.
00:59:58.440Um, I want to say like, I think sometimes we look at Christ, right?
01:00:03.520As this, and God, it can be different to different people, but for me, Christ is important.
01:00:07.960And, and we look at this perfect person or this, this ideal, um, I think it's important to look at Christ and, you know, he said, father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me.
01:00:19.980He said, my God, my God, why has thou forsaken me?
01:00:23.640In a time of desperation, he said, then saith unto them, my soul is exceedingly sorrowful, even unto death.
01:00:55.380Um, it, it has meant everything in my life and my relationship and how I, I guess, care like for Aaron or just how we operate in our relationship.
01:01:09.420Um, I don't know that we would still be here together without God.
01:01:14.640I have to tell you, I think the most important thing you said was you saw him, I'm paraphrasing, but you saw him for who he really was.
01:01:41.280Cause you can see, Ooh, there's so much pain in there, you know, could, could I ask both of you to do one thing?
01:01:49.280I want you to look into that camera and you look into that camera, you start and talk to someone who is going through it with someone else and talk to them.
01:02:00.180Um, well, first off, I want to say, you know, I see you, I see you as the caregiver.
01:02:09.240Um, sometimes that can get like overshadowed because if you have a loved one that's suffering so much, um, you kind of feel like you have to juggle all the balls and hold everything together and be the strong one.
01:02:22.380And so, um, I want you to know that, that I see you and I see your pain and your suffering in a different way.
01:02:30.620Um, and I, I guess I want you to remember that, that you were loved by your, by God and that, um, you have a village around you.
01:02:44.260And even though this illness can feel so isolating, even as a caregiver of a loved one suffering, that, um, it's so important to know that when to reach out and to be open, to ask for help so that you can get what you need to fill your cup and then be able to be there more for, um, the person that you love that's going through this.
01:03:07.520So before you speak, I think the most important thing you said that I heard was once you're open, once you're willing to share things change.
01:03:25.080And I know this as an alcoholic, everybody, when I was growing up, I was, you don't talk about being alcoholic and I really didn't care.
01:03:36.320Um, and I started talking about it and sharing things and so many people would come up and they would whisper to me, you know, thank you for saying that because I felt that way or I did this.
01:03:54.180We all are going through something and it only changes when we talk to each other.
01:04:01.100So you look into this, Cameron, speak to them.
01:04:08.720I hope anyone out there suffering knows.
01:04:13.560I've been where you are and I love you for your resilience.
01:04:19.780It takes courage to get out of bed, takes courage to get up and be a part of this world.
01:04:26.240Even when you feel like there's not much for you.
01:04:31.500I went to that, that place where I thought there was nothing and I've now lived 10 years since then or more have three beautiful children and a wife who loves me.
01:04:42.320And I have purpose and hope it's not perfect, but it's worth it.
01:04:47.400Um, my message to people is, I hope you'll raise your voice, whatever level you can.
01:04:54.520I know everyone can't shout it from the rooftops, but I hope that the message, sometimes in our society, we see so many people lose their battle to suicide.
01:05:06.340We need to respect and honor those people.
01:05:10.260But what we really need is the people who are struggling to live, who are choosing to find hope, to stand up and tell people, I'm struggling, but I want to live.