The Glenn Beck Program - Ep 192 ｜ Alan Dershowitz DESTROYS Legal Arguments for Trump Indictments ｜ The Glenn Beck Podcast

00:00:00.000 Today's guest sees the legal war on Donald Trump as one of the most significant court cases in

00:00:04.840 American political history. What's at stake is the future of all presidential elections.

00:00:11.100 By trying to disqualify Trump, they want to disqualify you and me and steal your right

00:00:17.080 to vote for who you want to vote for. He lays out a defense of Trump in his latest book,

00:00:22.720 Get Trump the Threat to Civil Liberties, Due Process and Our Constitutional Rule of Law.

00:00:29.020 He also happens to be Trump's most prestigious advocate. Top of his class at Yale, editor of the

00:00:36.180 Yale Law Journal before his stint as a Supreme Court clerk. He became an assistant professor at

00:00:42.980 Harvard Law School, and then he was 25, I think, when that happened. He earned tenure by 28.

00:00:50.680 When he defended Trump in front of the Senate, there were 10 former students among the 100 senators.

00:00:56.040 He's described Ted Cruz as one of his most brilliant students that he ever had. Over the past five

00:01:02.720 decades, he's established himself as one of the greatest constitutional experts of our time.

00:01:08.720 He has written about half a dozen books on the subject and litigated 100 cases on the Constitution.

00:01:16.080 He's admired and feared by political giants of every kind. Bill Clinton described him

00:01:21.680 as hopeful and wise. Benjamin Netanyahu calls him a defender of truth. He worked with and for

00:01:28.780 Bobby Kennedy. He knew a young Barack Obama. They were neighbors, actually. And Obama even refused to

00:01:35.980 come to today's guest's 75th birthday because he wouldn't disinvite Geraldo Rivera. He has defended

00:01:44.680 communists, Nazis, and pornographers. He's engineered some of the biggest court cases of

00:01:50.040 our time, from Jim Baker to Mike Tyson, Julian Assange, Mike Lindell. He's on that case now. He's

00:01:56.320 also defended some of the most unpopular people of our time, Harvey Weinstein, O.J. Simpson, Roman Polanski,

00:02:03.740 and Jeffrey Epstein. But the one he says has destroyed his life, the most notorious client by far,

00:02:11.540 according to his then friends, was Donald Trump. He's continued to support Trump, not voting for

00:02:20.020 him. He's never voted. In fact, he's voted against him twice. But his support for the principles of the

00:02:26.680 Constitution has cost him friendships, alliances, privilege, honors. And as you'll find out,

00:02:32.220 it even led to a weird altercation with Seinfeld creator Larry David. But he has never been spooked by

00:02:39.640 controversy or pushback. He defies partisanship, no matter the cost. He's defended Al Gore in 2000

00:02:47.120 and ready to do the same for Hillary Clinton in 2016. And even though he's one of Trump's strongest

00:02:52.460 allies, he voted against Trump twice and was able to vote against him, he says, hopefully, a third time.

00:02:59.500 Since retiring from Harvard, he offers his legal and political expertise on the podcast,

00:03:05.280 the Dershow. He turns 85 tomorrow and he is as sharp as a tack. Please welcome Alan Dershowitz.

00:03:16.960 Before we get to Alan, sometimes it seems like there's a running battle between cybercriminals

00:03:22.280 and the government to see who can steal most of the money from the largest number of people.

00:03:28.200 I think it's the government that wins most of the time. But the competition is fierce.

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00:03:38.060 and there's a very good reason for that. As it turns out, most victims of home title theft

00:03:43.320 don't realize they're a victim until it is way too late. I'm going to tell you about one homeowner.

00:03:49.080 She pulled onto her street one day and she saw a bulldozer demolishing her home. Can you imagine?

00:03:54.260 There it was, being torn down right in front of her eyes. She was a victim of a devastating

00:03:59.040 crime of home title theft. Criminal just forged his way onto the deed to her home, sold it. Now the

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00:04:34.640 First of all, happy birthday. Tomorrow.

00:04:38.020 Well, thank you. 85 years young.

00:04:40.020 Yeah. 85. It's a, you know, it's, we are looking at Mitch McConnell having some sort of

00:04:47.340 neurological issue. Yeah. Um, and, um, people are saying, you know, you can't make an issue of

00:04:54.620 people's age. I don't, I'd vote for you at 85. You're, you're sharp. You're just the same man as

00:05:01.720 you've always been, but it's not about age. It's about ability. And I don't know what's happening to

00:05:08.200 us where we don't, is there no one that says, Hey, this is, this is our country. We wouldn't

00:05:13.720 give the keys to our car to these gentlemen and ladies. Why are we giving them the keys to our 0.99

00:05:19.700 country? Well, we're, you know, we have a geriatric agency where we have, you know, a Senator from

00:05:26.320 California that's obviously unable to make decisions. Um, we have, uh, people in, in high

00:05:33.640 positions. We've had that before Woodrow Wilson served as president while largely unconscious.

00:05:40.100 And that caused us to create the 25th amendment, fortunately, but, um, we have a right to judge 0.89

00:05:46.760 people on their ability, not on their numbers. Right. You, uh, I mean, 85 years, what's the first

00:05:54.800 memory of America that we would relate to that you, you had?

00:05:59.740 Oh, very clear, very clear. VE day and VJ day. Um, I was seven years old. Um, both VE day was

00:06:10.580 particularly important to my family because I had several uncles, uh, serving, uh, abroad, um,

00:06:17.160 involved, uh, in the invasion of Germany, involved in France. And it meant they were coming home when

00:06:22.860 they were alive and we had a joyous, joyous celebrations. And then I had no relatives in

00:06:29.520 the Pacific theater, but I remember vividly VJ day victory over Japan day, dancing in the streets.

00:06:35.900 Uh, just, it's hard to put yourself back in a position where our friends, our relatives, our dear

00:06:43.420 ones were risking their lives for freedom. And it was over and we won. Uh, of course, not all of us

00:06:51.620 one. I lost my entire family in the Holocaust. Uh, I have a picture on the cover of my book,

00:06:58.320 just revenge of a family gathering in 1938. And every single person in that picture, uh, children

00:07:04.860 and the elderly, except for one, uh, was slaughtered by the Nazis during the Holocaust. So it was, um,

00:07:12.180 it was a victory for Americans, but a terrible, terrible defeat for the Jewish people. Half the 0.98

00:07:18.560 Jewish people in the world were murdered. This is not what I planned on talking to you about, but

00:07:24.300 I I've been wrestling with something lately as I go back and I, I look at our history and where we've

00:07:30.740 gone wrong and where we've gone right, et cetera. And I'm, I'm really, I'm stuck at operation paperclip,

00:07:39.980 uh, where we took some of these scientists and many of the doctors as well. And we just brought them

00:07:48.720 in and whitewashed them. Um, the Wernher von Braun, he absolutely had to have known what was going on

00:07:57.360 in his factories. He was there. Did we do the right thing or, or not? Should those people have all gone

00:08:04.840 to prison? Well, it's a very, very difficult moral question. I've actually written about it and talked

00:08:11.180 about it. And I've written about the double edged sword called the Marshall plan. Uh, after all,

00:08:15.940 Hitler said to the German people, if you killed the Jews, you will be better off economically.

00:08:21.300 And so they killed the Jews, they lost the war and the Marshall plan made them better off economically. 0.90

00:08:27.140 They were better off in England. They were better off than France. Uh, we rewarded Germany 1.00

00:08:32.800 because we were fighting against communism and you fight today's wars, not yesterday's wars,

00:08:38.640 but it came with an enormous moral cost. Uh, the vast majority of hands-on Nazis live good lives. 0.78

00:08:45.520 They died at age 80 and 85 with their grandchildren sitting next to them without anybody holding them

00:08:52.180 accountable for their hands-on participation. Do you know that when I went back to Germany, uh,

00:08:58.220 in 1964, I discovered that people who were in the SS put it on their resumes, whereas Jews who had been

00:09:05.900 in the camps hid their, uh, hid their numbers, their tattooed numbers. Uh, people were proud. People

00:09:12.700 were proud to have been in the Gestapo. Uh, there was no accounting in Germany. And, you know,

00:09:20.220 we said never again, but after the Holocaust, it happened again and again and again, and again, 0.96

00:09:26.860 Darfur, Pol Pot, again and again, because everybody knew if you kill one person, you get executed. 0.78

00:09:33.900 But if you kill 6 million, you can get praised. And so, uh, we did not learn the lessons of, uh, the

00:09:41.420 Holocaust. We didn't learn the lessons of the Japanese army raping and murdering Chinese civilians. We 0.78

00:09:48.700 rewarded Japan. Do you know what happened about two years ago? There was a poll, a general poll. Just

00:09:53.980 ask a question. What are the best countries in the world? They didn't define it. What are the best

00:09:58.940 countries in the world? The answer, number one, Germany, number two, Japan. Those were the two 0.72

00:10:04.060 best countries in the world. And they may very well be today among the best countries in the world

00:10:09.740 because they didn't pay a price. Uh, we look too much to the future and not to the past and

00:10:15.580 morality requires balancing the past and the future. Uh, it is. Um, I, I would love to, I want to get on

00:10:24.780 track here, but I would love to sit down in a podcast and just kind of review the things that

00:10:29.820 you've seen and done. Would you be willing to do that with me? Of course. Of course. It's been, it's been

00:10:35.340 a good long life with ups and downs, you know, until age 75, I was honored. I was getting honorary

00:10:43.500 degrees. I, they were going to name a professorship after me. Um, uh, I had never been sued, never sued.

00:10:50.860 And then a woman, um, stimulated by corrupt lawyers, uh, accused me of having sex with her. I

00:10:59.180 never met her, never heard of her. And ultimately she recanted and said, Oh, I may have confused him

00:11:04.540 with someone else, but that changed my life. And from age 75 to 85, I was fighting for my reputation.

00:11:11.660 And then I defended Donald Trump on the floor of the Senate and all my friends turned against me.

00:11:16.300 And I'm now involved in so many lawsuits. I'm suing CNN. I'm being sued. Um, my life has turned

00:11:24.140 around because of, uh, and I wrote a book about it called the price of principle. Why integrity is

00:11:30.300 worth the consequences. But the last 10 years of my life have been fighting and fighting and

00:11:35.740 fighting. You're supposed to have a golden age of retirement, but I've been deprived of that.

00:11:40.620 I guess the good Lord put me here to be a fighter, not to be an honor getter. And so I'm going to go

00:11:46.540 down at the end, uh, fighting for justice and fighting for the rule of law.

00:11:51.020 Why is it worth it? Because I think there's a lot of people that are making,

00:11:54.700 it's not hard yet for most people. I think most people are making the decision now that

00:12:00.300 I don't want to get involved. I don't want, I don't want the school to,

00:12:04.220 you know, be harsh with my child or whatever. Why is it worth standing up and saying what you

00:12:11.340 believe and saying what you believe to be true?

00:12:15.180 Well, it's worth it if you're the only one who gets victimized. But in my case,

00:12:19.180 my wife has been victimized. My children have been victimized. Um, and, and, and so,

00:12:26.140 you know, you asked the question, is it worth it? Some people think it's been selfish of me

00:12:32.700 to live on my principles and to put my wife and family and children particularly, uh, through the

00:12:40.780 burden. Um, as my son said to me once, and it was really hurtful. We used to be so proud to bear

00:12:47.580 the name Dershowitz. Uh, and now, uh, it's sometimes a difficulty, a burden, an embarrassment

00:12:54.380 among friends because you represented Donald Trump and that's unacceptable in America. You know,

00:13:00.620 I think of myself as trying to follow in the footsteps of John Adams who risked his life and

00:13:06.780 his career and his reputation to represent people. He despised British soldiers who were trying to,

00:13:13.020 uh, kill American, uh, civilians. Uh, I think of so many lawyers in the past, Abraham Lincoln and

00:13:19.100 Daniel Webster and Thurgood Marshall and so many others who've risked everything. Thurgood Marshall

00:13:25.420 had bullets whizzing by his head, uh, as a lawyer. Uh, he was threatened with being lynched. But, uh,

00:13:31.580 if there are no people to stand up for principles and for the rule of law, we're, we're, we're in deep

00:13:37.020 trouble. But I wish people would just pick on me. I can fight back. I wish they'd leave my wife and my

00:13:41.980 family alone, but they don't. I, uh, I've had very similar conversations, uh, with my family and,

00:13:49.820 uh, I've wrestled back and forth. Is it, is it worth it? I mean, it's, it's one thing for me,

00:13:56.940 but I am affecting my children's future because they bear my name. And, uh, it's, it's, uh,

00:14:04.860 it's hard. Um, I can just only do what I, I think is right. Um, and I think in your case,

00:14:12.940 you are going to be remembered as a great man and a great fighter for liberty. You know, Alan,

00:14:19.740 you and I disagree on a lot of stuff, I'm sure. Um, but you are, you're somebody who is,

00:14:25.820 you are the John Adams and he was wildly unpopular when he was alive as well. So rest assured,

00:14:33.260 I think you will be remembered quite well. Well, I'll be remembered by some, but unfortunately we

00:14:38.640 live in a world today where everything is divided. Uh, you have to pick a team and, uh, you know,

00:14:44.860 I think of an analogy to sports. I was a fanatical Brooklyn Dodger fan. And then I became a Red Sox

00:14:50.120 fan when the Brooklyn Dodgers moved to Los Angeles. But anytime I went to a ball game and the opposition

00:14:56.020 player came up, whether it would have been Ted Williams back in the day or Joe DiMaggio or Jeter or

00:15:02.320 Mariano Rivera, I would always get up and chair the opposing team. Because although I was a strong

00:15:08.480 supporter of my team, I understood the greatness of people on the other team. I wouldn't just say,

00:15:15.880 Oh, they're Yankees. They're, you know, they're, they're the enemy. No, no, we're all Americans.

00:15:21.040 And I admire you enormously for what you've done and what you've stood up for. We could disagree.

00:15:27.200 I used to have these great debates with William Buckley. Um, they're all on, you can get them

00:15:32.080 on YouTube. We debated everything. We disagreed about everything and we would end up putting

00:15:38.460 our arm on each other's shoulders and going out and, and, and having a drink. We even disagreed

00:15:43.300 about what we were going to drink. But, uh, in the end, in the end, we agreed that we both

00:15:48.880 wanted America to be great. And we had different conceptions of how to make America great, but

00:15:53.980 no difference in the result that we wanted. And we both wanted to devote our lives to seeing that

00:15:59.780 happen. Right. My father used to always say, I strongly disagree with so-and-so, but I'll fight

00:16:04.840 to the death for his right to say it. And we've lost that ability. If you had to compare, if you had

00:16:11.580 to compare this time, uh, on any other time in American history that you have seen lived or know a

00:16:19.020 lot about, what are we repeating? If anything? Well, um, I lived through McCarthyism. I was

00:16:25.820 president of the student body at Brooklyn college in the early, um, in 1950s, in the mid 1950s,

00:16:32.680 during the height of McCarthyism and the president of Brooklyn college who had been appointed to

00:16:37.240 get rid of the little red schoolhouse because Brooklyn college city college had a lot of

00:16:41.920 socialists and communists. And so they were firing professors. And the man who was instrumental

00:16:47.020 and firing a lot of the professors, um, I became friendly with, he was the chairman of the department

00:16:53.060 of romance languages. You may have heard of his son. His name was Eugene Scalia. And, uh, I first met

00:17:00.000 Nino Scalia because I knew his father and Nino Scalia. And I fought, I hated communism. I was a virulent

00:17:06.920 anti-communist, but I defended the right of communists to speak at Brooklyn college. Uh, but Jerry

00:17:12.680 McCarthyism, that was not, not acceptable. I wanted to hear them. I wanted to boo them. I wanted to

00:17:18.180 answer them. Uh, and, and, and the, the school wouldn't let me, wouldn't let me do that. Um,

00:17:24.760 I wanted to march on Washington for desegregation when I was president of student government. And 0.59

00:17:30.080 the president of the college said, if you do that, I won't write you a recommendation for law school.

00:17:33.980 And I did it and he didn't write me a recommendation for law school, but I got in, uh, anyway, but this,

00:17:40.060 I have to tell you, I'm writing a new book. It's called the new McCarthyism. Why the current woke

00:17:45.500 version is worse than the original worse than McCarthyism. Why the McCarthyism of the past,

00:17:51.820 which I lived through was old people who were on the way out McCarthy himself. Um, but many of the 1.00

00:17:58.000 people who supported McCarthyism were the old guard and they were focused on the past where people

00:18:02.760 communists in the 1930s, the new McCarthyism, which we're living through today is all about the

00:18:08.500 future. It's about young kids in colleges and universities who in 10 years will be the editorial

00:18:14.420 board of the New York times, the head of various networks, members of Congress, and in 20 years,

00:18:21.020 president of the United States. So I'm so worried that the new woke McCarthyism intolerance for different

00:18:27.060 points of view, intolerance for due process, intolerance for the rule of law. We want our

00:18:32.900 results and we want them now. And we don't want anything to stand in the way we want to make sure

00:18:37.920 Trump can't run for president. We don't care how much of the constitution we have to compromise to

00:18:42.760 get there. We only care about that. That's what the people said during the McCarthy period.

00:18:48.200 Communism is so dangerous and so bad. They're going to take over the world. They're going to bear ass.

00:18:52.560 We don't care about civil liberties. We don't care about free speech.

00:18:55.440 There have been many times in our history we thought it's different now. It's different.

00:19:00.240 And therefore, the constitution should be ignored. It's never different. They said it was different

00:19:04.840 when they put 110,000 Japanese Americans in camps. No, the constitution was designed to protect against 0.91

00:19:11.600 that. And it's not different today. I don't want Trump to be elected. I'm going to vote against him.

00:19:16.780 But I have to tell you, seeing him elected will be a lot less bad than seeing the constitution

00:19:22.120 destroyed in the name of preventing him from preventing the public from deciding who the

00:19:27.760 next president should be.

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00:20:45.380 covered in case there's some sort of disruption. JaceMedical.com. JaceMedical.com. Use the

00:20:51.320 promo code BECK at checkout. You and I can disagree on, let's say, Donald Trump, but both of us are

00:21:00.260 trying to seek the truth, which I thought, especially in academia, that's what this was all about,

00:21:08.900 seeking the truth. And, you know, the phrase, the truth shall set you free, I always like to follow

00:21:14.920 it with, yes, but it'll make you miserable at first. You're absolutely right. Right. If you look

00:21:22.780 at the truth and you don't like it, then you either go off the rails and say, well, I'm rejecting that

00:21:29.460 truth and that changes you, or you look at that truth and say, okay, I don't want to accept it,

00:21:35.840 but I will. And it takes you in another direction. Sure. Look, I could quote Voltaire, but I'll quote

00:21:41.400 Jack Nicholson. You can't handle the truth. That's really the problem. A lot of people can't handle the

00:21:49.080 truth. Now, you and I may disagree about that. I don't believe there's one truth in the world.

00:21:54.320 I believe in what I call the truthing process, the process of getting to the truth, the marketplace of

00:22:00.700 ideas. And I think the problem on the woke left today is that they think they know the truth,

00:22:06.720 capital T, capital T. And if you know the truth, you don't need dissent. You don't need due process.

00:22:12.880 If a man is accused by a woman, of course he's guilty. What do you need a trial for? 1.00

00:22:17.320 That's what the radical woke left is saying. If somebody on the right is saying you should vote

00:22:23.340 for Trump, we don't need free speech. We know that's wrong. Now, I'm not voting for Trump,

00:22:28.700 but I support anybody's right to publicly support Trump or anyone else. And, you know,

00:22:35.860 if I defended the right of a communist to run, if I defended the right of a Nazi to march through 0.73

00:22:41.040 Skokie, Illinois, you think I won't defend the right of Republicans or conservatives who I disagree

00:22:46.520 with? I think a woman should be able to choose to have an abortion during at least the earlier part 1.00

00:22:52.400 of her pregnancy. Many of the people I know disagree with that. Let's argue it. Let's debate it.

00:22:57.560 Let's ask the right question in democracy. Not does a woman have the right to choose? That's 1.00

00:23:02.440 a personal opinion. Who decides? Is it the government that makes that decision? Is it the

00:23:07.620 doctors that make that decision? Is it the state that makes that decision? Is it the federal

00:23:12.380 government? Is it the constitution? In a democracy, the key question is always who gets to decide.

00:23:20.320 And rights, when you decide something's a right like free speech, then the majority doesn't get to

00:23:26.020 decide it. If you have one person in a society who says, I'm going to speak up for the earth being

00:23:31.980 flat, he has or she has the right to say that. And the majority, look, I remember growing up in

00:23:38.580 Brooklyn, in Borough Park, which was a completely orthodox Jewish neighborhood. And every Friday,

00:23:44.000 the Jehovah's Witnesses would come by and try to persuade us to reject our religion. Otherwise, 1.00

00:23:50.760 we'd go to hell. And let me tell you, it scared the heck out of people. And I stood there and I

00:23:56.560 defended the right of the Jehovah's Witnesses. And my grandmother was furious at me. And I said,

00:24:02.040 Grandma, if these people don't have the right to speak, you're not going to have the right to speak.

00:24:06.540 Well, you know, she came from Poland as a 15 year old. She didn't have the experience of democracy,

00:24:12.160 but even she understood better than people on the left woke part of our society understand today.

00:24:19.740 All right. Let me get to let me get to all of these cases against Donald Trump. I don't think

00:24:25.860 anybody is is following. There's not a you don't you you don't necessarily know what any one of them

00:24:33.180 is about and where there's good points and bad points. And honestly, it's easy to find out.

00:24:38.440 It's easy to find out. Just get my book. Get Trump. Get Trump. I describe every one of the

00:24:45.140 cases I predict. I predicted I wrote this book a couple of months ago. I predicted each of these

00:24:52.000 indictments. I analyzed the strengths and weaknesses of each of the indictments. And when the trials

00:24:59.560 begin, I'm going to be putting out a new version of this book called The Primer on the Trump trials

00:25:05.620 in which on a daily basis online, I go through all of the strengths and weaknesses of the case.

00:25:12.720 The other day on my podcast, I made a mock opening argument both for the government against Donald

00:25:18.860 Trump and for Donald Trump against the government and let my viewers decide which was the stronger of

00:25:26.060 can you give us a can you give us a snip of that? Can you give us a pithy both sides argument?

00:25:32.640 Sure. You know, the government's arguments, ladies and gentlemen of the jury. This is a difficult

00:25:40.040 case to bring because the man who's in the dock is running for president of the United States and

00:25:45.940 everybody has the right to vote for who they want to see as president. But the rule of law must prevail.

00:25:52.680 And we're going to prove to you beyond a reasonable doubt that Donald Trump actually knew he had lost

00:25:57.760 the election and engaged in conduct, which was criminal based on his knowledge. And, you know,

00:26:05.220 basically, I'll go on from there. But the defense argument is, ladies and gentlemen of the jury,

00:26:09.280 imagine for one moment that Donald Trump was right and that the Georgia election had been stolen from

00:26:14.540 him. I don't believe that. You may not believe it. But imagine it for one second. If he were right,

00:26:19.620 then everything he did was not criminal. He tried to get an alternate slate of electors. He tried to

00:26:25.340 persuade. He tried to do what the lawyers for Al Gore did. I was one of them. I was the lawyer for

00:26:31.680 the Palm Beach County voters against the butterfly ballot. We did everything the same way. We

00:26:37.980 lobbied legislatures. We lobbied the secretary of state. Professor Tribe talked about alternate

00:26:44.960 slates of electors, talked about not having the results final until January 6th.

00:26:52.620 So, you know, you have to ask, put yourself in the mind of Donald Trump. And if you conclude

00:26:59.380 that he knew he had lost the election, that's one thing. But look, I don't believe he knew that.

00:27:05.360 I think he talked himself into the fact that he had won the election. I think to this day,

00:27:09.720 he believes he won the election. I do too. I believe he's wrong, but that doesn't make him a criminal.

00:27:15.040 Which one of those wins, Alan? I mean...

00:27:21.800 Oh, the one that wins is what I call the smoking cigarette butt. Why do I call it a smoking cigarette

00:27:29.180 butt? It's smoking. It's him waving the paper in front of the reporter and the publisher. It's on video

00:27:37.880 saying, I could have declassified this when I was president. I didn't. It's still secret.

00:27:43.420 That does constitute a smoking something of guilt. On the other hand, what is it? It's not a gun.

00:27:51.720 It's not even a whole cigarette or a cigar. It's a cigarette butt. It's such a minor offense.

00:27:56.860 I believe every single office holder of high office president and vice president has taken with them

00:28:03.700 classified material. And we don't ever prosecute that. And nobody claims that Trump was trying to

00:28:11.600 sell it to the Russians or give it to the Russians or undercut our national security. He was just 0.62

00:28:16.700 being a blowhard. He was being Donald Trump. Hey, look what I got. I got secret material. I can show

00:28:21.720 it to you because I was president. A slap on the wrist, the cigarette butt. That's the one strong case.

00:28:27.520 Everything else depends on his state of mind. The New York case is not even worth discussing.

00:28:31.720 It's intellectually not even worth a minute of time. It is the worst indictment I have ever seen in 60

00:28:38.320 years of practicing law. And virtually everyone admits that now. And this now that we have the

00:28:42.900 other indictments, we admit that the first one was wrong. Hang on. That's the brag. Is that the

00:28:48.600 the brag indictment? Stormy Daniels one? There's so many. Let me tell you. Let me tell you what that

00:28:55.340 indictment says. That indictment says that Alexander Hamilton should have been put in jail for paying

00:29:00.340 hush money to the woman who had an affair with him while he was the secretary of treasury. He paid

00:29:06.780 hush money, paid eleven hundred dollars, which was a fortune in those days. But nobody said he had to put

00:29:12.080 that on a disclosure form. What Bragg is saying is when you pay hush money, which is designed to keep a

00:29:17.520 secret, then you immediately have to disclose the secret by putting it on a corporate form. Never in the history

00:29:23.120 of the world has that been done. That that indictment. But yet the New York Times, when it first came out,

00:29:29.560 said, wow, what a strong indictment. My former student, Norm Eisen, who has been part of the Get

00:29:35.860 Trump Brigade. Wow, what a strong indictment. He was my student. He should know better. He was in my

00:29:41.780 class in criminal law. There's never been a weaker indictment. But now that there have been other

00:29:45.500 indictments, even the Get Trump Brigade has been saying, oh, well, the Bragg indictment is no good.

00:29:51.300 Maybe you should drop it. Certainly you should come later. It shouldn't have come first.

00:29:55.380 It was really a weak indictment. It was such a weak indictment. And then you have the two

00:30:00.480 indictments about January 6th, which pose problems for Donald Trump. They do pose problems.

00:30:06.660 So let's take the D.C. one. First of all, yeah, I as a conservative, I don't think I could get a fair

00:30:14.440 trial in D.C. I just think. Are you kidding? Think there's no way you could. There's no way I could

00:30:23.400 get. I'm a liberal. I can't get a fair trial in D.C. because I defended Donald Trump. I would

00:30:29.680 immediately, if I were indicted for something in D.C., move to change the venue to Virginia or West

00:30:35.320 Virginia or somewhere where there's some purple to be seen. Right. Here it's 95, 96 percent. And the

00:30:42.320 important thing is not that 96 percent of Washingtonians voted against Donald Trump.

00:30:47.220 It's that 80 percent hate his guts with a passion and they will do anything to make sure he's not

00:30:54.400 elected. And you can't expect a fair trial with that kind of a jury.

00:30:58.400 So first question, will it be moved? Is anybody making that case?

00:31:02.420 No, but it should be. You know, here, what should happen is his lawyer should move immediately to

00:31:08.120 have a change of venue. And then if they lose that, they should appeal that there is a mechanism

00:31:13.620 called interlocutory appeal or writ of mandamus where you can challenge a judge's order. There are

00:31:19.920 two orders that should be challenged in D.C. Number one, the location of the trial. And number two,

00:31:24.780 the timing, the timing. You know, the judge in that case, I have to tell you, if she ever was in my

00:31:31.680 class and she said some of the things she said from the bench, I'd flunk her out of law school. 1.00

00:31:38.200 I mean, she first of all talked about the right of the public to a speedy trial. There's no such

00:31:43.400 thing. There's only the right of a defendant. The public has the right only to a fair trial,

00:31:48.960 not a speedy trial. And so the idea of trying this case within six months of the indictment with

00:31:56.800 12,700,000 pages of material. And you know what the judge basically said? The prosecutor said,

00:32:04.580 oh, the defense doesn't have to read it all. Just skim it a little bit. No, I'm a lawyer. I've done

00:32:09.940 this for 60 years. I read every word the government gives me. You know why? Because the government plays

00:32:15.680 a game. It's called needle in the haystack. Yes. They give you 12,700,000 pages of garbage

00:32:21.260 and buried in that garbage is two or 300 pages of gems and jewelry and nuggets. And you have to go

00:32:29.000 through the 12 million pages. If you did it every single day, you'd have to read, I think it's 17,000

00:32:36.120 pages a day. No, no, we did the math. I think it's six to make it at this time. I think it's 60,000

00:32:41.640 pages a day. You'd have to, you'd have to read. Yeah. I mean, it's, I mean, it's how fast, but

00:32:46.480 and you know, here's the problem. When you are looking, um, at a speedy trial, there are people

00:32:53.800 that were charged for January 6th, a year, two years ago, that still haven't been at their day

00:33:03.100 in court. There's still people. That's because that's, and that's because it's such a complicated

00:33:08.220 case. There you have videotapes. It's a yes or no thing. There's no 12 billion pages. I'm representing

00:33:15.800 one of the defendants in the case, a young law student who went in peacefully. He listened to

00:33:20.900 the president who said, I want you to have your voices heard peacefully and patriotically.

00:33:26.000 That's what he did. Then he was waved in by the police. He stayed there for a few minutes.

00:33:31.900 Then the police told him to leave and he left and he's been indicted for a felony.

00:33:35.120 His law school diploma has been withheld and, uh, you know, his life is upside down. So I'm defending

00:33:41.900 him and, and, um, and his trial hasn't taken place yet. Uh, either the idea that 20, 20, you know,

00:33:51.740 12 million pages of material can be gone through. It's like asking a brain surgeon to do a delicate

00:33:58.320 brain operation without seeing the CAT scan, without studying the blood results, without looking at the

00:34:03.880 pharmaceuticals. If I were a lawyer, I have to tell you, I go up to the judge and say, your honor,

00:34:08.540 you have a robe. I don't, but you can't make me do unethical things. You can't make me provide my

00:34:14.040 client with ineffective assistance of counsel. You can't make me commit malpractice. I refuse to try

00:34:20.880 this case in six months, get another lawyer who's prepared to commit malpractice. You can't make me do

00:34:27.680 it. Judge might hold me in contempt, but I would do it. I would do it. I would not try a case in six

00:34:33.600 months. Then that lowers the, the chances of Donald Trump having another choice of a lawyer. I mean,

00:34:40.980 the lawyers are no longer, you can't get the best lawyers for another reason. There's this project

00:34:46.700 called project 65, a bunch of woke, radical left-wing anti-Trump haters who have decided that

00:34:54.880 their goal in life is to disbar and discipline any lawyer with anything to do with Donald Trump. So as

00:35:01.700 soon as they announced that, I wrote an op-ed saying they're a bunch of McCarthyites and they 0.55

00:35:06.840 are violating the norms of the legal profession. So what do you think they did? They filed a bar

00:35:11.540 charge against me. I now have to spend thousands and thousands of dollars defending myself in

00:35:17.160 Massachusetts against a bar charge brought by this organization of thugs that McCarthyites who want 0.99

00:35:26.080 to make sure. And the purpose, the reason they went after me is they want to make sure I can't

00:35:30.760 defend Donald Trump or anybody, anybody accused along with Donald Trump, because if you have a

00:35:35.840 bar charge against you, then it's difficult to get admitted to a state other than your own.

00:35:41.640 So it's a tactic, a McCarthyite tactic designed to prevent lawyers like me from becoming involved

00:35:47.860 in these kinds of cases. And tragically, it's working because the legal profession isn't fighting

00:35:53.140 back. The legal profession fought back against McCarthyism, but they're not fighting back against

00:35:58.380 the new anti-Trump McCarthyism. Why? Why? Because they're cowards and because they, as one of them

00:36:05.640 put it, we don't want to be Dershowitz. We don't want to have happen to us what happened to you. We

00:36:10.000 don't want our families to be affected this way. Also, they're zealots. When Larry David, an old friend

00:36:17.020 of mine who I helped his daughter get into college and I, you know, he used to work out in my little

00:36:22.640 gym and come to my house for dinner. When he saw me on the porch of the Chilmark store, which is where

00:36:27.660 we hang out in on Martha's Vineyard, he starts screaming at me, you're despicable, you're disgusting.

00:36:34.600 The veins in his head popped. And I, it was as if he was speaking to Heinrich Himmler, who had just

00:36:41.460 come from defending Adolf Hitler. That's the way he thinks of, I had another friend on the Vineyard

00:36:48.400 who, who talked about Donald Trump being worse than Hitler. I said, you know, that's a form of

00:36:54.680 Holocaust denial when you say that. And, you know, people are willing to make such extreme statements

00:37:00.800 about Trump. I'm not going to vote for him, but if he's win, if he wins, I'll, I'll recognize his

00:37:07.300 election, just as I did the election of 2016. I was a big Hillary Clinton supporter, but I worked

00:37:13.460 with Donald Trump on the various issues relating to Israel because you know how much I love Israel

00:37:19.220 and support Israel. And when Trump asked me to help out on Israel, I said, yes, you're, you're the

00:37:24.100 president. I'm going to work with you in, in, in support of American values and in support of Israel.

00:37:30.220 And I worked with him on that.

00:37:32.300 Remember the day when you could do all of the normal things that you wanted to do in a day,

00:37:36.900 you could go golfing whenever you wanted and you could golf all day. And you didn't feel like

00:37:42.220 you were made out of broken glass. Remember when you didn't have to decide whether or not it was

00:37:47.620 worth it to do it because it's probably going to really hurt as I'm going to pay for this for three

00:37:54.420 days. Living with pain is no joke. And it's the kind of thing that can wreck your life. I know I've

00:38:01.180 been there. Fortunately for me, my wife told me you're taking relief factor. I didn't think it would

00:38:06.860 work for me. If you're dealing with pain in your life, you feel like you've tried everything.

00:38:12.180 Maybe it's time to give relief factor a try. If it works for you, you get your life back.

00:38:16.640 Three week quick start, 1995. It's trial pack. Millions of people have already tried it.

00:38:22.020 70% of them now have gone on to order more. 800 for relief, 800 for relief, relief factor.com.

00:38:29.960 We're looking at two January 6th trials. One is in D.C. and that one can go to sedition,

00:38:39.880 right? They're saying that he engaged in sedition.

00:38:45.400 Well, they didn't charge him with that. But, you know, the statute, you know, even in Florida,

00:38:51.800 you know, the statute under which he was charged is called the Espionage Act. But he didn't commit

00:38:55.780 espionage. He didn't commit sedition. But they're trying to invoke the 14th Amendment. They're trying

00:39:01.220 to get convictions in D.C. or in Fulton County so that they can then say the 14th Amendment operates.

00:39:08.920 The 14th Amendment says that if you engaged in sedition or rebellion or et cetera, it was designed

00:39:16.700 for the Civil War, obviously. Then you cannot be the president of the United States. And

00:39:23.040 if you have engaged, if you've engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same,

00:39:30.460 the Constitution, or given aid and comfort to the enemies thereof, Congress, by a vote of two

00:39:36.540 thirds of each house could remove such a disability. But you're not supposed to. I mean,

00:39:41.460 really? Rebellion? I guess I guess maybe they're going for the aid or comfort to the enemies.

00:39:48.180 They are. But remember, too, that Republicans could come back and say sanctuary cities,

00:39:53.420 the people who are involved in sanctuary cities are involved in rebellion and insurrection.

00:39:58.600 They're saying we will not obey the law of the United States. We will rescue our immigrants. 1.00

00:40:04.260 And, you know, I'm emotionally supportive of that. But you can argue that's an act of insurrection

00:40:10.480 or rebellion. It's a refusal to apply federal law and to follow federal law. You can say that the acts

00:40:17.820 that were done after the horrible shooting of George Floyd, some of the violence that took place

00:40:23.280 on the West Coast were acts of insurrection and rebellion. The problem with that 14th Amendment

00:40:28.620 argument is there's no mechanism. There is a mechanism for undoing it. But there's no mechanism

00:40:34.180 for actually concluding whether or not President Trump gave aid and comfort to an insurrection or rebellion.

00:40:42.500 Professor Tribe, my former colleague, says, well, it's self-enforcing. Any secretary of state can do that.

00:40:48.120 So the secretary of state of Michigan can decide who the next president of the United States is

00:40:53.620 by keeping Trump off the ballot. It's absurd. The framers of the Constitution would never have

00:40:59.180 tolerated something like that. They made it so hard to impeach. You think they're going to make

00:41:03.560 it easy to prevent somebody from serving as president? No.

00:41:08.400 So what is the strongest and the weakest? And how do you think this one in Washington,

00:41:15.000 D.C. will fall? What's the strongest point and weakest point of it?

00:41:18.900 Well, there's only one strong point, Washington, D.C., and that's Washington, D.C.

00:41:22.860 That is, they will convict a ham sandwich if its name is Trump. So the key point in that case is going

00:41:30.260 to be the instruction the judge gives. If the judge says to the jury, ladies and gentlemen of the jury,

00:41:35.440 even if you believe that Donald Trump honestly believed that he had won the election, even if

00:41:41.020 you come to that conclusion, you must convict unless you also believe that that belief was reasonable.

00:41:48.360 In other words, you have to conclude not only that Trump himself believed he won the election,

00:41:53.620 but that that was a reasonable belief. If they get that instruction, they win the trial,

00:41:57.880 but they lose on appeal, in my opinion. The other instruction would be, ladies and gentlemen of the

00:42:02.960 jury, you have to conclude beyond a reasonable doubt that Donald Trump himself actually knew he lost the

00:42:08.720 election. The problem is he didn't. He talked himself into the fact that he had won it. He told

00:42:13.620 everybody there is no smoking gun. They're not going to be able to produce a videotape or even

00:42:17.860 a witness. No. Who says, oh, well, Donald Trump told me that he had lost the election and was just

00:42:23.440 doing this. He believes it to this day, to this day, to the core of his being. He believes he won the

00:42:31.660 election. Well, they've come up with a new alternative. The New York Times had an op-ed piece,

00:42:37.300 a clever op-ed piece, which said, no, you don't have to prove that he actually knew he had won,

00:42:44.400 he had lost, if you can show that he willfully blinded himself to that information. But to show

00:42:51.200 that he willfully blinded himself, you know, it's the three monkeys, hear no evil, see no evil,

00:42:55.940 speak no evil. Trump didn't do that. He watched the movie 2,000 Mules. He listened to the people

00:43:02.620 on his side of the story. He also heard the people on the other side. We know that because

00:43:08.160 he reacted to it. He was furious at Fox News for declaring Biden the winner. So we know he heard

00:43:16.880 all sides of the argument, but he concluded erroneously, in my view, but in good faith in his

00:43:23.300 view. What is the difference between this and what Hillary Clinton said? Or honestly, what you,

00:43:31.460 the case you made in, uh, Bush versus score. I mean, it is the, it is your right to question it

00:43:40.340 at some point, you know, you should move on. Um, you know, unless it is corruption and that has to be

00:43:48.740 vetted, but at some point the system does move on, but you have the right to believe whatever you want

00:43:56.360 to believe. When did this become a crime when we've been hearing this for 25 years?

00:44:03.420 Well, uh, I wrote a book on it called Supreme Injustice, where I declared in my book that I

00:44:08.980 believe that the night that the 2000 election should have gone and did go to Al Gore. I believe more

00:44:15.600 people in Florida wanted to vote for Al Gore than wanted to vote for, um, uh, president, uh, uh, Bush.

00:44:22.840 The Supreme court said I was wrong. I still think I was right. I maintain that view. The argument that

00:44:29.860 the get Trump posse is putting forward today is that they didn't just say it, but they put up a

00:44:36.780 slate of fake electors. Well, that's exactly the way you're supposed to do. You're supposed to put up

00:44:42.460 alternate electors and let the Congress decide which slate of electors that Tilden Hayes that happened in

00:44:49.900 the, uh, 1960 election. Jamie Raskin was pushing in that direction. Lawrence Tribe in 2000 said that the

00:45:00.020 state of Florida had the right to, uh, recount up until January 6th. Uh, and, and now he denies that

00:45:07.420 that applies to Donald Trump because for Professor Tribe, the constitution means only what he believes

00:45:13.220 it means in behalf of his candidates, his ideology and his party. But, uh, reasonable people will say

00:45:19.980 if that argument was valid in Bush versus Gore, it was valid here as well. So it's going to be

00:45:27.700 a controversial case. Ultimately it'll get to the Supreme court, but the goal of the get Trump posse

00:45:33.520 is to get a down and dirty conviction before the election, knowing that it very likely will be

00:45:39.360 reversed after the election. But by that time, the election will have been influenced by the

00:45:44.360 conviction. That's the strategy. That's why you have Jack Smith moving for a January 2nd trial.

00:45:50.500 That was his original claim. They put it off to March 4th, but January 2nd to get a down and dirty

00:45:56.100 conviction before the primaries, before the election, influence the election, and then it'll be reversed

00:46:01.360 on appeal, but we don't care because that'll be after the election. This is, this is what I expected the

00:46:08.600 Soviet union to be like when I was a kid that you couldn't believe the newspapers, that the trials

00:46:14.100 were all rigged. It was show me the, show me the man. I'll find the crime. I'll show you the crime.

00:46:19.600 Um, and, and in just recently we have said, the press has said, we don't want to say anything about

00:46:27.460 this. The FBI, we don't do anything before an election because we don't want to influence

00:46:31.980 everything that, you know, the two judges fought over, what was it? March 4th. There were two

00:46:37.580 judges that wanted to put that on the day before. Well, there are now three trials scheduled for

00:46:44.780 March and one for May. Look, we're not Russia. Uh, our president doesn't shoot down the plane

00:46:50.360 carrying his political opponent. He doesn't kill lawyers like Ms. Nitsky, uh, who were in jail

00:46:57.580 representing people. We're not there. Uh, on my podcast, I have a podcast called the dirt show.

00:47:03.220 I award bananas and I started with just one banana. 10 makes you a banana Republic. But I have to tell

00:47:10.300 you after these three trials were scheduled for March, I am now up to six bananas. Uh, we're getting

00:47:17.260 close, unfortunately, and we have to stop it from being a banana Republic. When you go after the man 1.00

00:47:23.040 running against the incumbent president, you better have the strongest case imaginable. They don't.

00:47:28.820 And you better have the fairest process imaginable. They don't. They have a weak case with an unfair

00:47:35.100 process, a denial of due process. And that's banana land. That shouldn't be allowed to happen. 0.73

00:47:42.440 What, uh, do you think about all the attorneys being arrested?

00:47:46.820 Well, that's scary. I have a whole, I have a chapter in my book, uh, get Trump.

00:47:52.780 You are the best marketer ever. What are you going to do with all this money?

00:47:58.540 Well, I'm not making any money on this. Let me tell you what happened. No bookstores will carry

00:48:03.600 get Trump. They don't want to independent bookstores won't carry it. Even though it was number one

00:48:08.160 nonfiction bestseller on Amazon, the local bookstores won't carry it. So I write not to make money.

00:48:15.760 I write to have people read my views. And if you want to read my views on these trials, read,

00:48:20.920 get Trump. So I'm not going to be bashful about promoting it. I'm just going to get it in a

00:48:26.220 bookstore. And I fight against censorship. I love it. Um, but I talk about the lawyers that going

00:48:32.060 after the lawyers, Shakespeare's villain said, first, let's kill the lawyers. Um, I would say tongue,

00:48:38.680 put them in pig farms. Stalin killed the lawyers. Pol Pot killed the lawyers. Uh, Castro killed the

00:48:45.100 lawyers. Um, when you go after lawyers, when you arrest lawyers and prison lawyers,

00:48:50.260 name them as unindicted co-conspirators as they did in DC and indicted co-conspirators

00:48:55.660 in Fulton County, you're creating a real problem. First, you're telling other lawyers,

00:49:01.300 don't become lawyers for Donald Trump. And a lot of lawyers are listening. They don't want to be on

00:49:06.480 the wrong end of an indictment. They don't want to be on the wrong end of a bar complaint as I am now

00:49:10.720 on the wrong end of a bar complaint. And, um, and, and going after the lawyers is essentially the way

00:49:18.400 you destroy the rule of law. You can't have the rule of law unless you have lawyers. You know,

00:49:24.440 there's that great scene from a man for all seasons when, uh, Thomas Morris is asked, uh, would you chop,

00:49:33.360 would you give the rule of law to the devil? And he says, yes, because otherwise, uh, there'll be no

00:49:39.960 rule of law for the rest of us. And that has to be the current approach, but it's not.

00:49:45.480 So, um, as I understand it, and please help, help me understand, uh, as I understand it,

00:49:52.520 they are co-conspirators because look, for instance, Mark Meadows, because he got a phone number

00:50:01.360 that the president asked him to get. And I, I, uh, I mean, that seems like a, a pretty big stretch

00:50:11.400 there. And it's, well, the issue is now before a court in, um, in Georgia federal court, because

00:50:18.420 Mark Meadows is saying, look, I was the chief of staff. My job was to sit in and listen to the

00:50:25.160 president's phone calls. And I did. And the president said to the secretary of state,

00:50:29.740 Rafsenberger, uh, we need to find, find, uh, enough votes to turn the election in my favor.

00:50:36.920 He didn't say concoct. He didn't say manufacturer. He didn't say make up. He said, discover,

00:50:43.480 discover means that they're fine. They're there to be found. And it's what did Mark Meadows do wrong?

00:50:49.500 Listening to that phone call. There's an op-ed in today's times saying, oh, he should have gotten off

00:50:54.460 the phone. He should have put his letter of resignation on the desk. Well, that's your

00:50:58.360 opinion, but failure to do that. Doesn't make you a criminal. It is, uh, absolutely consistent

00:51:04.400 that Donald Trump would say it. If you read the transcript, he's saying we have 400,000 votes,

00:51:11.460 you know, that, that, that are out there, you know, there's only 11,000 that are needed to turn

00:51:18.040 this the other way. Look at the 400,000 votes, find just 11. You don't have to find all 400.

00:51:25.420 He, that is completely, completely consistent. We did the same thing in Bush versus Goal. We needed

00:51:31.260 570 votes or something like that. I guarantee you that the lawyers for Al Gore were on the phone

00:51:38.600 saying, we want the recount in this County because maybe we can find enough votes to put us over the

00:51:44.000 top. We don't want to recount in that County because that won't help us. They were very selective

00:51:48.500 in which recounts they wanted. And that's what the Supreme court ultimately pointed to and

00:51:53.740 rejecting recounts. But if you go back and look at everything that the Gore lawyers did in 2000,

00:52:01.100 you'll see striking similarities. Go back and read the memo. You want to hear the irony?

00:52:05.660 You know who wrote the memo for Al Gore? The same guy who wrote the memo for President Trump. His name

00:52:14.480 is Cheeseborough. He was Larry Tribe's research assistant. When Tribe wrote that memo in 2000,

00:52:20.920 now he's under indictment for essentially making very, very similar points. You know, the Torah says

00:52:29.120 in instructing judges, lo takir punim, do not recognize faces. You must do justice blind. You

00:52:36.520 can't know who the person is before you. That's why we have the statue of justice with the blindfold.

00:52:42.420 But now everything turns on. Is your name Trump or is your name Gore? Are you a Democrat? Are you a

00:52:48.020 Republican? Are you conservative? Are you liberal? Are you Trump? Trump, Trump, Trump. That's the name

00:52:54.700 of the game. It's in violation of the Bible. It's in violation of civil liberties. It's in violation of

00:52:59.740 the constitution. But the get Trump brigade couldn't care less. They'll violate anything to make sure

00:53:06.480 Trump can't run for president. All right. Before we get back to the final portion of

00:53:12.820 Alan Dershowitz, let me tell you, I'm a huge fan of the concept of buying things from people that don't

00:53:21.180 hate my guts, buying things from people that are ethical, moral, trying to do the right thing. And the

00:53:29.320 cream on the strawberries, if you will, is somebody who is trying to do it in America. That's really

00:53:38.200 hard, really hard. I don't mind spending my money for things like that. There are several companies

00:53:45.360 that are building their companies with those kinds of values, your values. One of them is grip six.

00:53:50.520 You're getting true American values. You are also supporting the American ranchers that grow the

00:53:57.060 the wool. And this is specially bred sheep that produce this kind of wool that the American

00:54:04.120 manufacturers can take, wash it, process it and weave it into socks. They make great socks. They make great

00:54:10.300 belts. Wallets are unbelievable, but they're all made here in America. They're all made by Americans. 0.99

00:54:16.440 Check out grip six today. That's grip six dot com slash back. Let me take you to the Florida case,

00:54:26.400 the Florida case with the documents. My first question, and maybe you would know, is this

00:54:31.380 is this normal that you would have a grand jury in that would convict a ham sandwich, as you have said,

00:54:39.740 in D.C. and then turn that case over to the state in which it was the crime was supposedly committed?

00:54:48.800 Isn't the wrong? It's wrong. OK, it's wrong. What they did is they got the rulings, the legal rulings,

00:54:56.200 and they were mistaken legal rulings, and they'll all be subject to appeal. They got the legal rulings

00:55:00.840 from friendly D.C. judges. They took the case down to Florida. And by bifurcating the case that way,

00:55:08.120 they sought to get an advantage. Now, look, the Justice Department has a slogan right in front

00:55:12.880 of the building. Justice is done not when the government wins, but when justice is done,

00:55:20.940 when we have a fair result. They're not supposed to be seeking every possible unfair tactical

00:55:27.000 advantage. They're supposed to be doing justice. Justice, justice, shall you pursue? Again, the Bible.

00:55:34.440 And the Justice Department today is not doing that. They're seeking political partisan advantage

00:55:41.080 in scheduling these trials, in the kinds of indictments, in the use of unindicted co-conspirators,

00:55:49.940 in going after lawyers. That's not justice. That's weaponization and partisanship.

00:55:55.820 Isn't the Florida case a case that you thought was fairly strong that might cause him some trouble?

00:56:04.480 I think that one incident is very strong. The waving of the document in front of, that's a strong

00:56:11.280 evidentiary case, but it's not a smoking gun. It's a smoking cigarette, but it's not that serious

00:56:17.760 a case. Although they call it espionage, there's no allegation that he turned the material over to an

00:56:23.600 enemy or made money off it. He was just showing off, hey, I used to be the president. I could have

00:56:28.620 declassified this. I didn't. It's still secret, but I'm showing it to you. You know, that's, it's,

00:56:33.880 it's bragged dishio, but it's not, and maybe it's technically criminal, but it's, it's a butt. It's a

00:56:40.720 cigarette butt, not a gun.

00:56:41.920 So, um, when you look at this and you say their objective is to, uh, make sure that he can't run or

00:56:50.820 be president again, um, I'm, I'm not so sure. I, I think they actually would like to put him in jail

00:56:59.200 if they could. I, I think the, the, the, the hatred is so great that they want to see him in jail.

00:57:06.780 See, I don't think there's a day. I think there are many who would like to see him in jail. Yes.

00:57:13.000 People I know, friends who want to see him in jail. There are others who would be satisfied if he

00:57:18.220 made a plea bargain. There was an article just the other day proposing a plea bargain. If he drops out

00:57:22.980 of the race, they'll drop the charges or they'll drop the threat of imprisonment. He's not going to 0.82

00:57:28.060 do that. No. Donald Trump is not going to do that because nor should they be. No, nor should he.

00:57:33.140 No, it's not depriving him of being president. It's depriving you of the right to vote for who

00:57:39.400 you want to vote for for president. I defend your right to vote against my best interests. You know,

00:57:44.980 democracy doesn't assure you an outcome. It only assures you a process. That process is voting.

00:57:52.480 Every American should vote. Every eligible voter should vote. The electoral college should then

00:57:58.560 decide who is the next president. Not some secretary of state in Iowa, not some judge in the District

00:58:06.920 of Columbia, a judge whose background is completely anti-Trump and completely pro-Democrat, a judge who

00:58:15.460 worked for one of the most corrupt law firms in America, got her education at the knees of corruption.

00:58:22.340 And and and it's just unfair. And the case has to be taken away from her and has to be taken out of

00:58:31.620 the District of Columbia to a fair place where justice can be done again. If you're going after

00:58:37.060 the man running against the incumbent president, you have to be Caesar's wife. You have to lean over 0.85

00:58:42.080 backwards. You have to make sure that every I is dotted, every T is crossed. They're doing it exactly

00:58:47.720 the opposite way. They're doing it in a way that wouldn't be fair to anybody. It certainly isn't

00:58:52.440 fair to the American public who wants to vote for Donald Trump. OK, let me change now to the to the

00:58:58.440 other side. When Trump was being impeached, I told my staff, look, I want you to put the blindfolds on.

00:59:08.000 I don't care if we like Trump or hate Trump. I want the truth as much as we can find. OK,

00:59:15.520 so the truth of our understanding, go and get as many documents and pieces of evidence and let's put

00:59:22.700 this together. And we came to the conclusion that this is actually what Biden and, you know,

00:59:28.740 Burisma and and Newland, et cetera. They were kind of they were they were involved in some nefarious

00:59:37.120 things, at least in my opinion, with Newland and that there was massive corruption going on.

00:59:43.840 And it looked to me like it was, you know, pot calling the kettle black, trying to make sure

00:59:51.620 that nobody was seeing these things. So I've been on this story for several years. I've been watching

00:59:57.740 it and and I I know many of the facts. But I said at the time, this isn't a court of law. I can't I can't

01:00:06.620 tell you that these things absolutely happen. This is where the evidence leads me. However,

01:00:12.780 absolutely. Right. However, we are now getting to a point to where, you know, you have the 70 red flags

01:00:20.120 from from banks to the Treasury. You have the shell companies, all of the kids and family getting money,

01:00:29.540 him saying he didn't meet with the business or oligarchs. And then we find out that he did.

01:00:34.900 And the pseudonym emails, which we don't know anything about yet. The State Department,

01:00:39.940 that memo where it says, give them the money, they've done enough. And then Biden saying,

01:00:46.460 I'm not giving you the money because you're not qualified for it, which is exactly what his son

01:00:53.160 needed. And then and the latest. And this is not something that you can convict over. But but

01:00:59.940 Shokin actually saying, yeah, I mean, I don't have evidence, but I think this is exactly what was going

01:01:07.540 on. What do you make of this? What I make of it is that there is probable cause. There is enough to

01:01:16.300 appoint a special counsel. And that is essential. Now, already Biden has a special counsel, but only

01:01:23.080 looking at the classified material. Again, the cigarette butt. Here we need a special counsel

01:01:28.000 to look into Burisma, to look into China, to look into all the relationships between Hunter Biden

01:01:35.600 and people. Was was President Biden or Vice President Biden at the time? Was he there when

01:01:42.740 that email was sent? Was he on phone calls? Right. All of that has to be looked at by a special

01:01:48.580 counsel. That special counsel should be somebody who's above reproach, a former judge, a former

01:01:55.120 justice, a former president of a university, somebody who's not political, somebody who doesn't

01:02:01.200 come from the Justice Department, a totally outside person. Remember, the rules require that it be

01:02:06.900 somebody outside the government. They violated that rule when they again twice to be the special

01:02:12.360 counsel. But to go after the president. Look, I hope Joe Biden did nothing wrong. I've known Joe Biden

01:02:18.080 since 1980. I like him personally. He's a nice man. I don't believe he's corrupt, but I have an open mind

01:02:26.120 and I'm not the one who makes that decision. The decision should be made initially by a special

01:02:31.080 counsel appointed to look into President Biden. It's a it's a it's an important step and it's a

01:02:38.720 controversial step, but it must be done. You cannot allow Merrick Garland to make that decision.

01:02:45.040 Merrick Garland serves at the pleasure of the president. It has to be somebody who doesn't serve

01:02:49.580 at the pleasure of the president, who isn't appointed by the president, who doesn't owe anything to the

01:02:54.940 president. Until we do that second step of appointing a special counsel, it's going to be

01:03:00.960 speculation. And that's not healthy for America. You know what this election is going to boil down to

01:03:05.640 in a year from now? Who's the worst criminal family, the Biden family or the Trump family?

01:03:11.320 That's not how we should be electing presidents of the United States. We should be able to put all

01:03:16.920 this behind us and decide the presidency on foreign policy, on the economy, on jobs,

01:03:22.100 on the climate, on a range of issues that every American cares about.

01:03:26.260 You optimistic that we we weather this storm?

01:03:30.860 You know, in Israel, they say a pessimist. Somebody says, oh, you think things are so bad

01:03:35.500 they can't get worse? And the optimist says, yes, they can. I have mixed views of that.

01:03:43.740 They could get worse. They could get much worse. And I think long term they're going to be worse

01:03:48.560 because of the new McCarthyism of the woke generation. But we can survive this. Our

01:03:53.380 Constitution was built to survive this. But we have to apply the rule of law. The biggest

01:03:58.040 disappointment are the lawyers, the lawyers who have not come to defend the rule of law,

01:04:03.040 the lawyers who have not come to defend lawyers, the lawyers who have taken sides and are in favor

01:04:10.620 of disbarring and disciplining people who are on a side different from them. They're the biggest

01:04:16.460 disappointment. And when the lawyers fail to perform their job in doing justice, we're in

01:04:21.860 deep trouble. You said a little while ago that, you know, when we have a whole bunch of 10 bananas,

01:04:28.020 we have a banana republic. You said you have six of them now. That's four left. Are they just 0.98

01:04:34.140 bananas that you'll know when you see them? Or are they specific things you're looking for?

01:04:39.200 Well, I'm hoping to reduce a banana or two if the Court of Appeals strikes down the

01:04:46.120 scheduling, the unfair scheduling. And I think it's possible that a Court of Appeals will say,

01:04:52.840 no, no, no, March 4th. You can't read 12 million pages by March 4th. They lose a banana if that

01:04:59.120 happens. If, on the other hand, the Court of Appeals upholds it, they gain a banana. So,

01:05:03.760 you know, we're in very vulnerable territory. What I'm afraid of today, I'm disappointed with

01:05:10.820 the lawyers. I'm also disappointed with moderate Republicans, people like Judge Lutech, who are

01:05:17.640 Federalist Society people, who generally support the conservative side, but they hate Trump with

01:05:23.240 such a passion that they're prepared to give up their commitment to constitutionalism. The Federalist

01:05:29.820 Society has been a very important source of constitutionalism. But many in that society

01:05:36.100 have fallen prey to the get Trump posse and say, look, we're conservatives, we're Federalists,

01:05:42.320 and we're saying that this trial, you know, a bunch of lawyers from the Federalist Society

01:05:47.240 filed a brief with the court in D.C. saying the trial should be January 2nd, January 2nd. That's three

01:05:54.800 months from now. Four months from now. That's ridiculous to the idea you can read 12 million

01:06:01.900 pages or the idea that you shouldn't read them. You know what's going to happen. If he gets convicted,

01:06:07.720 they're going to then say there was a violation of Brady. They didn't disclose certain material.

01:06:12.820 The government's going to say, oh, we disclosed that we gave you 12 million pages. And on page,

01:06:16.960 you know, 11,376,000 in footnote 16, if you looked at that, you would have seen it was the

01:06:23.420 exculpatory material. That's the game they play. I've seen it. I've argued that. And that's what's

01:06:29.680 going on here today. 12 million pages. And you expect either them not to read it or to read it.

01:06:35.920 Neither is acceptable.

01:06:38.200 Alan, I wish we had been neighbors and my children would have grown up sitting around your table or my

01:06:46.900 table hearing these discussions over a meal.

01:06:49.260 Well, we can still do it. We do it on television. So that's almost as good as over a meal. But it

01:06:55.700 would have been nice growing up as a neighbor. I don't know how you would have fit into Brooklyn,

01:07:00.220 but I would have liked it, but I don't know if I would have fit in. Alan, as always, thank you so

01:07:07.080 much. Happy birthday again. And hopefully we'll get you down here to just tell me the stories of the

01:07:15.860 things you have witnessed because you have witnessed a great deal. Thank you. Thank you. God bless. Thank

01:07:22.140 you.

01:07:27.820 Just a reminder, I'd love you to rate and subscribe to the podcast and pass this on to a friend so it

01:07:33.860 can be discovered by other people.

The Glenn Beck Program - September 02, 2023

Ep 192 ｜ Alan Dershowitz DESTROYS Legal Arguments for Trump Indictments ｜ The Glenn Beck Podcast

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