Ep 192 ｜ Alan Dershowitz DESTROYS Legal Arguments for Trump Indictments ｜ The Glenn Beck Podcast
Episode Stats
Length
1 hour and 7 minutes
Words per Minute
169.54945
Summary
Alan Dershowitz is one of the most respected legal minds in American history. He has defended some of our most unpopular people of our time: Harvey Weinstein, OJ. Simpson, Roman Polanski, Jeffrey Epstein. But the one he says has destroyed his life, according to his then friends, is Donald Trump.
Transcript
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Today's guest sees the legal war on Donald Trump as one of the most significant court cases in
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American political history. What's at stake is the future of all presidential elections.
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By trying to disqualify Trump, they want to disqualify you and me and steal your right
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to vote for who you want to vote for. He lays out a defense of Trump in his latest book,
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Get Trump the Threat to Civil Liberties, Due Process and Our Constitutional Rule of Law.
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He also happens to be Trump's most prestigious advocate. Top of his class at Yale, editor of the
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Yale Law Journal before his stint as a Supreme Court clerk. He became an assistant professor at
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Harvard Law School, and then he was 25, I think, when that happened. He earned tenure by 28.
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When he defended Trump in front of the Senate, there were 10 former students among the 100 senators.
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He's described Ted Cruz as one of his most brilliant students that he ever had. Over the past five
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decades, he's established himself as one of the greatest constitutional experts of our time.
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He has written about half a dozen books on the subject and litigated 100 cases on the Constitution.
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He's admired and feared by political giants of every kind. Bill Clinton described him
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as hopeful and wise. Benjamin Netanyahu calls him a defender of truth. He worked with and for
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Bobby Kennedy. He knew a young Barack Obama. They were neighbors, actually. And Obama even refused to
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come to today's guest's 75th birthday because he wouldn't disinvite Geraldo Rivera. He has defended
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communists, Nazis, and pornographers. He's engineered some of the biggest court cases of
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our time, from Jim Baker to Mike Tyson, Julian Assange, Mike Lindell. He's on that case now. He's
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also defended some of the most unpopular people of our time, Harvey Weinstein, O.J. Simpson, Roman Polanski,
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and Jeffrey Epstein. But the one he says has destroyed his life, the most notorious client by far,
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according to his then friends, was Donald Trump. He's continued to support Trump, not voting for
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him. He's never voted. In fact, he's voted against him twice. But his support for the principles of the
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Constitution has cost him friendships, alliances, privilege, honors. And as you'll find out,
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it even led to a weird altercation with Seinfeld creator Larry David. But he has never been spooked by
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controversy or pushback. He defies partisanship, no matter the cost. He's defended Al Gore in 2000
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and ready to do the same for Hillary Clinton in 2016. And even though he's one of Trump's strongest
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allies, he voted against Trump twice and was able to vote against him, he says, hopefully, a third time.
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Since retiring from Harvard, he offers his legal and political expertise on the podcast,
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the Dershow. He turns 85 tomorrow and he is as sharp as a tack. Please welcome Alan Dershowitz.
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Before we get to Alan, sometimes it seems like there's a running battle between cybercriminals
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00:03:38.060
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00:04:05.760
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Yeah. 85. It's a, you know, it's, we are looking at Mitch McConnell having some sort of
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neurological issue. Yeah. Um, and, um, people are saying, you know, you can't make an issue of
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people's age. I don't, I'd vote for you at 85. You're, you're sharp. You're just the same man as
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you've always been, but it's not about age. It's about ability. And I don't know what's happening to
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us where we don't, is there no one that says, Hey, this is, this is our country. We wouldn't
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give the keys to our car to these gentlemen and ladies. Why are we giving them the keys to our
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country? Well, we're, you know, we have a geriatric agency where we have, you know, a Senator from
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California that's obviously unable to make decisions. Um, we have, uh, people in, in high
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positions. We've had that before Woodrow Wilson served as president while largely unconscious.
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And that caused us to create the 25th amendment, fortunately, but, um, we have a right to judge
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people on their ability, not on their numbers. Right. You, uh, I mean, 85 years, what's the first
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memory of America that we would relate to that you, you had?
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Oh, very clear, very clear. VE day and VJ day. Um, I was seven years old. Um, both VE day was
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particularly important to my family because I had several uncles, uh, serving, uh, abroad, um,
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involved, uh, in the invasion of Germany, involved in France. And it meant they were coming home when
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they were alive and we had a joyous, joyous celebrations. And then I had no relatives in
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the Pacific theater, but I remember vividly VJ day victory over Japan day, dancing in the streets.
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Uh, just, it's hard to put yourself back in a position where our friends, our relatives, our dear
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ones were risking their lives for freedom. And it was over and we won. Uh, of course, not all of us
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one. I lost my entire family in the Holocaust. Uh, I have a picture on the cover of my book,
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just revenge of a family gathering in 1938. And every single person in that picture, uh, children
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and the elderly, except for one, uh, was slaughtered by the Nazis during the Holocaust. So it was, um,
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it was a victory for Americans, but a terrible, terrible defeat for the Jewish people. Half the
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Jewish people in the world were murdered. This is not what I planned on talking to you about, but
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I I've been wrestling with something lately as I go back and I, I look at our history and where we've
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gone wrong and where we've gone right, et cetera. And I'm, I'm really, I'm stuck at operation paperclip,
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uh, where we took some of these scientists and many of the doctors as well. And we just brought them
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in and whitewashed them. Um, the Wernher von Braun, he absolutely had to have known what was going on
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in his factories. He was there. Did we do the right thing or, or not? Should those people have all gone
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to prison? Well, it's a very, very difficult moral question. I've actually written about it and talked
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about it. And I've written about the double edged sword called the Marshall plan. Uh, after all,
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Hitler said to the German people, if you killed the Jews, you will be better off economically.
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And so they killed the Jews, they lost the war and the Marshall plan made them better off economically.
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They were better off in England. They were better off than France. Uh, we rewarded Germany
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because we were fighting against communism and you fight today's wars, not yesterday's wars,
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but it came with an enormous moral cost. Uh, the vast majority of hands-on Nazis live good lives.
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They died at age 80 and 85 with their grandchildren sitting next to them without anybody holding them
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accountable for their hands-on participation. Do you know that when I went back to Germany, uh,
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in 1964, I discovered that people who were in the SS put it on their resumes, whereas Jews who had been
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in the camps hid their, uh, hid their numbers, their tattooed numbers. Uh, people were proud. People
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were proud to have been in the Gestapo. Uh, there was no accounting in Germany. And, you know,
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we said never again, but after the Holocaust, it happened again and again and again, and again,
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Darfur, Pol Pot, again and again, because everybody knew if you kill one person, you get executed.
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But if you kill 6 million, you can get praised. And so, uh, we did not learn the lessons of, uh, the
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Holocaust. We didn't learn the lessons of the Japanese army raping and murdering Chinese civilians. We
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rewarded Japan. Do you know what happened about two years ago? There was a poll, a general poll. Just
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ask a question. What are the best countries in the world? They didn't define it. What are the best
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countries in the world? The answer, number one, Germany, number two, Japan. Those were the two
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best countries in the world. And they may very well be today among the best countries in the world
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because they didn't pay a price. Uh, we look too much to the future and not to the past and
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morality requires balancing the past and the future. Uh, it is. Um, I, I would love to, I want to get on
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track here, but I would love to sit down in a podcast and just kind of review the things that
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you've seen and done. Would you be willing to do that with me? Of course. Of course. It's been, it's been
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a good long life with ups and downs, you know, until age 75, I was honored. I was getting honorary
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degrees. I, they were going to name a professorship after me. Um, uh, I had never been sued, never sued.
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And then a woman, um, stimulated by corrupt lawyers, uh, accused me of having sex with her. I
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never met her, never heard of her. And ultimately she recanted and said, Oh, I may have confused him
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with someone else, but that changed my life. And from age 75 to 85, I was fighting for my reputation.
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And then I defended Donald Trump on the floor of the Senate and all my friends turned against me.
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And I'm now involved in so many lawsuits. I'm suing CNN. I'm being sued. Um, my life has turned
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around because of, uh, and I wrote a book about it called the price of principle. Why integrity is
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worth the consequences. But the last 10 years of my life have been fighting and fighting and
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fighting. You're supposed to have a golden age of retirement, but I've been deprived of that.
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I guess the good Lord put me here to be a fighter, not to be an honor getter. And so I'm going to go
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down at the end, uh, fighting for justice and fighting for the rule of law.
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Why is it worth it? Because I think there's a lot of people that are making,
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it's not hard yet for most people. I think most people are making the decision now that
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I don't want to get involved. I don't want, I don't want the school to,
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you know, be harsh with my child or whatever. Why is it worth standing up and saying what you
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believe and saying what you believe to be true?
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Well, it's worth it if you're the only one who gets victimized. But in my case,
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my wife has been victimized. My children have been victimized. Um, and, and, and so,
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you know, you asked the question, is it worth it? Some people think it's been selfish of me
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to live on my principles and to put my wife and family and children particularly, uh, through the
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burden. Um, as my son said to me once, and it was really hurtful. We used to be so proud to bear
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the name Dershowitz. Uh, and now, uh, it's sometimes a difficulty, a burden, an embarrassment
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among friends because you represented Donald Trump and that's unacceptable in America. You know,
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I think of myself as trying to follow in the footsteps of John Adams who risked his life and
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his career and his reputation to represent people. He despised British soldiers who were trying to,
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uh, kill American, uh, civilians. Uh, I think of so many lawyers in the past, Abraham Lincoln and
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Daniel Webster and Thurgood Marshall and so many others who've risked everything. Thurgood Marshall
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had bullets whizzing by his head, uh, as a lawyer. Uh, he was threatened with being lynched. But, uh,
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if there are no people to stand up for principles and for the rule of law, we're, we're, we're in deep
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trouble. But I wish people would just pick on me. I can fight back. I wish they'd leave my wife and my
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family alone, but they don't. I, uh, I've had very similar conversations, uh, with my family and,
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uh, I've wrestled back and forth. Is it, is it worth it? I mean, it's, it's one thing for me,
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but I am affecting my children's future because they bear my name. And, uh, it's, it's, uh,
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it's hard. Um, I can just only do what I, I think is right. Um, and I think in your case,
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you are going to be remembered as a great man and a great fighter for liberty. You know, Alan,
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you and I disagree on a lot of stuff, I'm sure. Um, but you are, you're somebody who is,
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you are the John Adams and he was wildly unpopular when he was alive as well. So rest assured,
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I think you will be remembered quite well. Well, I'll be remembered by some, but unfortunately we
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live in a world today where everything is divided. Uh, you have to pick a team and, uh, you know,
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I think of an analogy to sports. I was a fanatical Brooklyn Dodger fan. And then I became a Red Sox
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fan when the Brooklyn Dodgers moved to Los Angeles. But anytime I went to a ball game and the opposition
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player came up, whether it would have been Ted Williams back in the day or Joe DiMaggio or Jeter or
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Mariano Rivera, I would always get up and chair the opposing team. Because although I was a strong
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supporter of my team, I understood the greatness of people on the other team. I wouldn't just say,
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Oh, they're Yankees. They're, you know, they're, they're the enemy. No, no, we're all Americans.
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And I admire you enormously for what you've done and what you've stood up for. We could disagree.
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I used to have these great debates with William Buckley. Um, they're all on, you can get them
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on YouTube. We debated everything. We disagreed about everything and we would end up putting
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our arm on each other's shoulders and going out and, and, and having a drink. We even disagreed
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about what we were going to drink. But, uh, in the end, in the end, we agreed that we both
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wanted America to be great. And we had different conceptions of how to make America great, but
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no difference in the result that we wanted. And we both wanted to devote our lives to seeing that
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happen. Right. My father used to always say, I strongly disagree with so-and-so, but I'll fight
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to the death for his right to say it. And we've lost that ability. If you had to compare, if you had
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to compare this time, uh, on any other time in American history that you have seen lived or know a
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lot about, what are we repeating? If anything? Well, um, I lived through McCarthyism. I was
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president of the student body at Brooklyn college in the early, um, in 1950s, in the mid 1950s,
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during the height of McCarthyism and the president of Brooklyn college who had been appointed to
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get rid of the little red schoolhouse because Brooklyn college city college had a lot of
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socialists and communists. And so they were firing professors. And the man who was instrumental
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and firing a lot of the professors, um, I became friendly with, he was the chairman of the department
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of romance languages. You may have heard of his son. His name was Eugene Scalia. And, uh, I first met
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Nino Scalia because I knew his father and Nino Scalia. And I fought, I hated communism. I was a virulent
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anti-communist, but I defended the right of communists to speak at Brooklyn college. Uh, but Jerry
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McCarthyism, that was not, not acceptable. I wanted to hear them. I wanted to boo them. I wanted to
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answer them. Uh, and, and, and the, the school wouldn't let me, wouldn't let me do that. Um,
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I wanted to march on Washington for desegregation when I was president of student government. And
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the president of the college said, if you do that, I won't write you a recommendation for law school.
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And I did it and he didn't write me a recommendation for law school, but I got in, uh, anyway, but this,
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I have to tell you, I'm writing a new book. It's called the new McCarthyism. Why the current woke
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version is worse than the original worse than McCarthyism. Why the McCarthyism of the past,
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which I lived through was old people who were on the way out McCarthy himself. Um, but many of the
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people who supported McCarthyism were the old guard and they were focused on the past where people
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communists in the 1930s, the new McCarthyism, which we're living through today is all about the
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future. It's about young kids in colleges and universities who in 10 years will be the editorial
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board of the New York times, the head of various networks, members of Congress, and in 20 years,
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president of the United States. So I'm so worried that the new woke McCarthyism intolerance for different
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points of view, intolerance for due process, intolerance for the rule of law. We want our
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results and we want them now. And we don't want anything to stand in the way we want to make sure
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Trump can't run for president. We don't care how much of the constitution we have to compromise to
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get there. We only care about that. That's what the people said during the McCarthy period.
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Communism is so dangerous and so bad. They're going to take over the world. They're going to bear ass.
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We don't care about civil liberties. We don't care about free speech.
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There have been many times in our history we thought it's different now. It's different.
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And therefore, the constitution should be ignored. It's never different. They said it was different
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when they put 110,000 Japanese Americans in camps. No, the constitution was designed to protect against
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that. And it's not different today. I don't want Trump to be elected. I'm going to vote against him.
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But I have to tell you, seeing him elected will be a lot less bad than seeing the constitution
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destroyed in the name of preventing him from preventing the public from deciding who the
00:19:28.900
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promo code BECK at checkout. You and I can disagree on, let's say, Donald Trump, but both of us are
00:21:00.260
trying to seek the truth, which I thought, especially in academia, that's what this was all about,
00:21:08.900
seeking the truth. And, you know, the phrase, the truth shall set you free, I always like to follow
00:21:14.920
it with, yes, but it'll make you miserable at first. You're absolutely right. Right. If you look
00:21:22.780
at the truth and you don't like it, then you either go off the rails and say, well, I'm rejecting that
00:21:29.460
truth and that changes you, or you look at that truth and say, okay, I don't want to accept it,
00:21:35.840
but I will. And it takes you in another direction. Sure. Look, I could quote Voltaire, but I'll quote
00:21:41.400
Jack Nicholson. You can't handle the truth. That's really the problem. A lot of people can't handle the
00:21:49.080
truth. Now, you and I may disagree about that. I don't believe there's one truth in the world.
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I believe in what I call the truthing process, the process of getting to the truth, the marketplace of
00:22:00.700
ideas. And I think the problem on the woke left today is that they think they know the truth,
00:22:06.720
capital T, capital T. And if you know the truth, you don't need dissent. You don't need due process.
00:22:12.880
If a man is accused by a woman, of course he's guilty. What do you need a trial for?
00:22:17.320
That's what the radical woke left is saying. If somebody on the right is saying you should vote
00:22:23.340
for Trump, we don't need free speech. We know that's wrong. Now, I'm not voting for Trump,
00:22:28.700
but I support anybody's right to publicly support Trump or anyone else. And, you know,
00:22:35.860
if I defended the right of a communist to run, if I defended the right of a Nazi to march through
00:22:41.040
Skokie, Illinois, you think I won't defend the right of Republicans or conservatives who I disagree
00:22:46.520
with? I think a woman should be able to choose to have an abortion during at least the earlier part
00:22:52.400
of her pregnancy. Many of the people I know disagree with that. Let's argue it. Let's debate it.
00:22:57.560
Let's ask the right question in democracy. Not does a woman have the right to choose? That's
00:23:02.440
a personal opinion. Who decides? Is it the government that makes that decision? Is it the
00:23:07.620
doctors that make that decision? Is it the state that makes that decision? Is it the federal
00:23:12.380
government? Is it the constitution? In a democracy, the key question is always who gets to decide.
00:23:20.320
And rights, when you decide something's a right like free speech, then the majority doesn't get to
00:23:26.020
decide it. If you have one person in a society who says, I'm going to speak up for the earth being
00:23:31.980
flat, he has or she has the right to say that. And the majority, look, I remember growing up in
00:23:38.580
Brooklyn, in Borough Park, which was a completely orthodox Jewish neighborhood. And every Friday,
00:23:44.000
the Jehovah's Witnesses would come by and try to persuade us to reject our religion. Otherwise,
00:23:50.760
we'd go to hell. And let me tell you, it scared the heck out of people. And I stood there and I
00:23:56.560
defended the right of the Jehovah's Witnesses. And my grandmother was furious at me. And I said,
00:24:02.040
Grandma, if these people don't have the right to speak, you're not going to have the right to speak.
00:24:06.540
Well, you know, she came from Poland as a 15 year old. She didn't have the experience of democracy,
00:24:12.160
but even she understood better than people on the left woke part of our society understand today.
00:24:19.740
All right. Let me get to let me get to all of these cases against Donald Trump. I don't think
00:24:25.860
anybody is is following. There's not a you don't you you don't necessarily know what any one of them
00:24:33.180
is about and where there's good points and bad points. And honestly, it's easy to find out.
00:24:38.440
It's easy to find out. Just get my book. Get Trump. Get Trump. I describe every one of the
00:24:45.140
cases I predict. I predicted I wrote this book a couple of months ago. I predicted each of these
00:24:52.000
indictments. I analyzed the strengths and weaknesses of each of the indictments. And when the trials
00:24:59.560
begin, I'm going to be putting out a new version of this book called The Primer on the Trump trials
00:25:05.620
in which on a daily basis online, I go through all of the strengths and weaknesses of the case.
00:25:12.720
The other day on my podcast, I made a mock opening argument both for the government against Donald
00:25:18.860
Trump and for Donald Trump against the government and let my viewers decide which was the stronger of
00:25:26.060
can you give us a can you give us a snip of that? Can you give us a pithy both sides argument?
00:25:32.640
Sure. You know, the government's arguments, ladies and gentlemen of the jury. This is a difficult
00:25:40.040
case to bring because the man who's in the dock is running for president of the United States and
00:25:45.940
everybody has the right to vote for who they want to see as president. But the rule of law must prevail.
00:25:52.680
And we're going to prove to you beyond a reasonable doubt that Donald Trump actually knew he had lost
00:25:57.760
the election and engaged in conduct, which was criminal based on his knowledge. And, you know,
00:26:05.220
basically, I'll go on from there. But the defense argument is, ladies and gentlemen of the jury,
00:26:09.280
imagine for one moment that Donald Trump was right and that the Georgia election had been stolen from
00:26:14.540
him. I don't believe that. You may not believe it. But imagine it for one second. If he were right,
00:26:19.620
then everything he did was not criminal. He tried to get an alternate slate of electors. He tried to
00:26:25.340
persuade. He tried to do what the lawyers for Al Gore did. I was one of them. I was the lawyer for
00:26:31.680
the Palm Beach County voters against the butterfly ballot. We did everything the same way. We
00:26:37.980
lobbied legislatures. We lobbied the secretary of state. Professor Tribe talked about alternate
00:26:44.960
slates of electors, talked about not having the results final until January 6th.
00:26:52.620
So, you know, you have to ask, put yourself in the mind of Donald Trump. And if you conclude
00:26:59.380
that he knew he had lost the election, that's one thing. But look, I don't believe he knew that.
00:27:05.360
I think he talked himself into the fact that he had won the election. I think to this day,
00:27:09.720
he believes he won the election. I do too. I believe he's wrong, but that doesn't make him a criminal.
00:27:21.800
Oh, the one that wins is what I call the smoking cigarette butt. Why do I call it a smoking cigarette
00:27:29.180
butt? It's smoking. It's him waving the paper in front of the reporter and the publisher. It's on video
00:27:37.880
saying, I could have declassified this when I was president. I didn't. It's still secret.
00:27:43.420
That does constitute a smoking something of guilt. On the other hand, what is it? It's not a gun.
00:27:51.720
It's not even a whole cigarette or a cigar. It's a cigarette butt. It's such a minor offense.
00:27:56.860
I believe every single office holder of high office president and vice president has taken with them
00:28:03.700
classified material. And we don't ever prosecute that. And nobody claims that Trump was trying to
00:28:11.600
sell it to the Russians or give it to the Russians or undercut our national security. He was just
00:28:16.700
being a blowhard. He was being Donald Trump. Hey, look what I got. I got secret material. I can show
00:28:21.720
it to you because I was president. A slap on the wrist, the cigarette butt. That's the one strong case.
00:28:27.520
Everything else depends on his state of mind. The New York case is not even worth discussing.
00:28:31.720
It's intellectually not even worth a minute of time. It is the worst indictment I have ever seen in 60
00:28:38.320
years of practicing law. And virtually everyone admits that now. And this now that we have the
00:28:42.900
other indictments, we admit that the first one was wrong. Hang on. That's the brag. Is that the
00:28:48.600
the brag indictment? Stormy Daniels one? There's so many. Let me tell you. Let me tell you what that
00:28:55.340
indictment says. That indictment says that Alexander Hamilton should have been put in jail for paying
00:29:00.340
hush money to the woman who had an affair with him while he was the secretary of treasury. He paid
00:29:06.780
hush money, paid eleven hundred dollars, which was a fortune in those days. But nobody said he had to put
00:29:12.080
that on a disclosure form. What Bragg is saying is when you pay hush money, which is designed to keep a
00:29:17.520
secret, then you immediately have to disclose the secret by putting it on a corporate form. Never in the history
00:29:23.120
of the world has that been done. That that indictment. But yet the New York Times, when it first came out,
00:29:29.560
said, wow, what a strong indictment. My former student, Norm Eisen, who has been part of the Get
00:29:35.860
Trump Brigade. Wow, what a strong indictment. He was my student. He should know better. He was in my
00:29:41.780
class in criminal law. There's never been a weaker indictment. But now that there have been other
00:29:45.500
indictments, even the Get Trump Brigade has been saying, oh, well, the Bragg indictment is no good.
00:29:51.300
Maybe you should drop it. Certainly you should come later. It shouldn't have come first.
00:29:55.380
It was really a weak indictment. It was such a weak indictment. And then you have the two
00:30:00.480
indictments about January 6th, which pose problems for Donald Trump. They do pose problems.
00:30:06.660
So let's take the D.C. one. First of all, yeah, I as a conservative, I don't think I could get a fair
00:30:14.440
trial in D.C. I just think. Are you kidding? Think there's no way you could. There's no way I could
00:30:23.400
get. I'm a liberal. I can't get a fair trial in D.C. because I defended Donald Trump. I would
00:30:29.680
immediately, if I were indicted for something in D.C., move to change the venue to Virginia or West
00:30:35.320
Virginia or somewhere where there's some purple to be seen. Right. Here it's 95, 96 percent. And the
00:30:42.320
important thing is not that 96 percent of Washingtonians voted against Donald Trump.
00:30:47.220
It's that 80 percent hate his guts with a passion and they will do anything to make sure he's not
00:30:54.400
elected. And you can't expect a fair trial with that kind of a jury.
00:30:58.400
So first question, will it be moved? Is anybody making that case?
00:31:02.420
No, but it should be. You know, here, what should happen is his lawyer should move immediately to
00:31:08.120
have a change of venue. And then if they lose that, they should appeal that there is a mechanism
00:31:13.620
called interlocutory appeal or writ of mandamus where you can challenge a judge's order. There are
00:31:19.920
two orders that should be challenged in D.C. Number one, the location of the trial. And number two,
00:31:24.780
the timing, the timing. You know, the judge in that case, I have to tell you, if she ever was in my
00:31:31.680
class and she said some of the things she said from the bench, I'd flunk her out of law school.
00:31:38.200
I mean, she first of all talked about the right of the public to a speedy trial. There's no such
00:31:43.400
thing. There's only the right of a defendant. The public has the right only to a fair trial,
00:31:48.960
not a speedy trial. And so the idea of trying this case within six months of the indictment with
00:31:56.800
12,700,000 pages of material. And you know what the judge basically said? The prosecutor said,
00:32:04.580
oh, the defense doesn't have to read it all. Just skim it a little bit. No, I'm a lawyer. I've done
00:32:09.940
this for 60 years. I read every word the government gives me. You know why? Because the government plays
00:32:15.680
a game. It's called needle in the haystack. Yes. They give you 12,700,000 pages of garbage
00:32:21.260
and buried in that garbage is two or 300 pages of gems and jewelry and nuggets. And you have to go
00:32:29.000
through the 12 million pages. If you did it every single day, you'd have to read, I think it's 17,000
00:32:36.120
pages a day. No, no, we did the math. I think it's six to make it at this time. I think it's 60,000
00:32:41.640
pages a day. You'd have to, you'd have to read. Yeah. I mean, it's, I mean, it's how fast, but
00:32:46.480
and you know, here's the problem. When you are looking, um, at a speedy trial, there are people
00:32:53.800
that were charged for January 6th, a year, two years ago, that still haven't been at their day
00:33:03.100
in court. There's still people. That's because that's, and that's because it's such a complicated
00:33:08.220
case. There you have videotapes. It's a yes or no thing. There's no 12 billion pages. I'm representing
00:33:15.800
one of the defendants in the case, a young law student who went in peacefully. He listened to
00:33:20.900
the president who said, I want you to have your voices heard peacefully and patriotically.
00:33:26.000
That's what he did. Then he was waved in by the police. He stayed there for a few minutes.
00:33:31.900
Then the police told him to leave and he left and he's been indicted for a felony.
00:33:35.120
His law school diploma has been withheld and, uh, you know, his life is upside down. So I'm defending
00:33:41.900
him and, and, um, and his trial hasn't taken place yet. Uh, either the idea that 20, 20, you know,
00:33:51.740
12 million pages of material can be gone through. It's like asking a brain surgeon to do a delicate
00:33:58.320
brain operation without seeing the CAT scan, without studying the blood results, without looking at the
00:34:03.880
pharmaceuticals. If I were a lawyer, I have to tell you, I go up to the judge and say, your honor,
00:34:08.540
you have a robe. I don't, but you can't make me do unethical things. You can't make me provide my
00:34:14.040
client with ineffective assistance of counsel. You can't make me commit malpractice. I refuse to try
00:34:20.880
this case in six months, get another lawyer who's prepared to commit malpractice. You can't make me do
00:34:27.680
it. Judge might hold me in contempt, but I would do it. I would do it. I would not try a case in six
00:34:33.600
months. Then that lowers the, the chances of Donald Trump having another choice of a lawyer. I mean,
00:34:40.980
the lawyers are no longer, you can't get the best lawyers for another reason. There's this project
00:34:46.700
called project 65, a bunch of woke, radical left-wing anti-Trump haters who have decided that
00:34:54.880
their goal in life is to disbar and discipline any lawyer with anything to do with Donald Trump. So as
00:35:01.700
soon as they announced that, I wrote an op-ed saying they're a bunch of McCarthyites and they
00:35:06.840
are violating the norms of the legal profession. So what do you think they did? They filed a bar
00:35:11.540
charge against me. I now have to spend thousands and thousands of dollars defending myself in
00:35:17.160
Massachusetts against a bar charge brought by this organization of thugs that McCarthyites who want
00:35:26.080
to make sure. And the purpose, the reason they went after me is they want to make sure I can't
00:35:30.760
defend Donald Trump or anybody, anybody accused along with Donald Trump, because if you have a
00:35:35.840
bar charge against you, then it's difficult to get admitted to a state other than your own.
00:35:41.640
So it's a tactic, a McCarthyite tactic designed to prevent lawyers like me from becoming involved
00:35:47.860
in these kinds of cases. And tragically, it's working because the legal profession isn't fighting
00:35:53.140
back. The legal profession fought back against McCarthyism, but they're not fighting back against
00:35:58.380
the new anti-Trump McCarthyism. Why? Why? Because they're cowards and because they, as one of them
00:36:05.640
put it, we don't want to be Dershowitz. We don't want to have happen to us what happened to you. We
00:36:10.000
don't want our families to be affected this way. Also, they're zealots. When Larry David, an old friend
00:36:17.020
of mine who I helped his daughter get into college and I, you know, he used to work out in my little
00:36:22.640
gym and come to my house for dinner. When he saw me on the porch of the Chilmark store, which is where
00:36:27.660
we hang out in on Martha's Vineyard, he starts screaming at me, you're despicable, you're disgusting.
00:36:34.600
The veins in his head popped. And I, it was as if he was speaking to Heinrich Himmler, who had just
00:36:41.460
come from defending Adolf Hitler. That's the way he thinks of, I had another friend on the Vineyard
00:36:48.400
who, who talked about Donald Trump being worse than Hitler. I said, you know, that's a form of
00:36:54.680
Holocaust denial when you say that. And, you know, people are willing to make such extreme statements
00:37:00.800
about Trump. I'm not going to vote for him, but if he's win, if he wins, I'll, I'll recognize his
00:37:07.300
election, just as I did the election of 2016. I was a big Hillary Clinton supporter, but I worked
00:37:13.460
with Donald Trump on the various issues relating to Israel because you know how much I love Israel
00:37:19.220
and support Israel. And when Trump asked me to help out on Israel, I said, yes, you're, you're the
00:37:24.100
president. I'm going to work with you in, in, in support of American values and in support of Israel.
00:37:32.300
Remember the day when you could do all of the normal things that you wanted to do in a day,
00:37:36.900
you could go golfing whenever you wanted and you could golf all day. And you didn't feel like
00:37:42.220
you were made out of broken glass. Remember when you didn't have to decide whether or not it was
00:37:47.620
worth it to do it because it's probably going to really hurt as I'm going to pay for this for three
00:37:54.420
days. Living with pain is no joke. And it's the kind of thing that can wreck your life. I know I've
00:38:01.180
been there. Fortunately for me, my wife told me you're taking relief factor. I didn't think it would
00:38:06.860
work for me. If you're dealing with pain in your life, you feel like you've tried everything.
00:38:12.180
Maybe it's time to give relief factor a try. If it works for you, you get your life back.
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Three week quick start, 1995. It's trial pack. Millions of people have already tried it.
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70% of them now have gone on to order more. 800 for relief, 800 for relief, relief factor.com.
00:38:29.960
We're looking at two January 6th trials. One is in D.C. and that one can go to sedition,
00:38:39.880
right? They're saying that he engaged in sedition.
00:38:45.400
Well, they didn't charge him with that. But, you know, the statute, you know, even in Florida,
00:38:51.800
you know, the statute under which he was charged is called the Espionage Act. But he didn't commit
00:38:55.780
espionage. He didn't commit sedition. But they're trying to invoke the 14th Amendment. They're trying
00:39:01.220
to get convictions in D.C. or in Fulton County so that they can then say the 14th Amendment operates.
00:39:08.920
The 14th Amendment says that if you engaged in sedition or rebellion or et cetera, it was designed
00:39:16.700
for the Civil War, obviously. Then you cannot be the president of the United States. And
00:39:23.040
if you have engaged, if you've engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same,
00:39:30.460
the Constitution, or given aid and comfort to the enemies thereof, Congress, by a vote of two
00:39:36.540
thirds of each house could remove such a disability. But you're not supposed to. I mean,
00:39:41.460
really? Rebellion? I guess I guess maybe they're going for the aid or comfort to the enemies.
00:39:48.180
They are. But remember, too, that Republicans could come back and say sanctuary cities,
00:39:53.420
the people who are involved in sanctuary cities are involved in rebellion and insurrection.
00:39:58.600
They're saying we will not obey the law of the United States. We will rescue our immigrants.
00:40:04.260
And, you know, I'm emotionally supportive of that. But you can argue that's an act of insurrection
00:40:10.480
or rebellion. It's a refusal to apply federal law and to follow federal law. You can say that the acts
00:40:17.820
that were done after the horrible shooting of George Floyd, some of the violence that took place
00:40:23.280
on the West Coast were acts of insurrection and rebellion. The problem with that 14th Amendment
00:40:28.620
argument is there's no mechanism. There is a mechanism for undoing it. But there's no mechanism
00:40:34.180
for actually concluding whether or not President Trump gave aid and comfort to an insurrection or rebellion.
00:40:42.500
Professor Tribe, my former colleague, says, well, it's self-enforcing. Any secretary of state can do that.
00:40:48.120
So the secretary of state of Michigan can decide who the next president of the United States is
00:40:53.620
by keeping Trump off the ballot. It's absurd. The framers of the Constitution would never have
00:40:59.180
tolerated something like that. They made it so hard to impeach. You think they're going to make
00:41:03.560
it easy to prevent somebody from serving as president? No.
00:41:08.400
So what is the strongest and the weakest? And how do you think this one in Washington,
00:41:15.000
D.C. will fall? What's the strongest point and weakest point of it?
00:41:18.900
Well, there's only one strong point, Washington, D.C., and that's Washington, D.C.
00:41:22.860
That is, they will convict a ham sandwich if its name is Trump. So the key point in that case is going
00:41:30.260
to be the instruction the judge gives. If the judge says to the jury, ladies and gentlemen of the jury,
00:41:35.440
even if you believe that Donald Trump honestly believed that he had won the election, even if
00:41:41.020
you come to that conclusion, you must convict unless you also believe that that belief was reasonable.
00:41:48.360
In other words, you have to conclude not only that Trump himself believed he won the election,
00:41:53.620
but that that was a reasonable belief. If they get that instruction, they win the trial,
00:41:57.880
but they lose on appeal, in my opinion. The other instruction would be, ladies and gentlemen of the
00:42:02.960
jury, you have to conclude beyond a reasonable doubt that Donald Trump himself actually knew he lost the
00:42:08.720
election. The problem is he didn't. He talked himself into the fact that he had won it. He told
00:42:13.620
everybody there is no smoking gun. They're not going to be able to produce a videotape or even
00:42:17.860
a witness. No. Who says, oh, well, Donald Trump told me that he had lost the election and was just
00:42:23.440
doing this. He believes it to this day, to this day, to the core of his being. He believes he won the
00:42:31.660
election. Well, they've come up with a new alternative. The New York Times had an op-ed piece,
00:42:37.300
a clever op-ed piece, which said, no, you don't have to prove that he actually knew he had won,
00:42:44.400
he had lost, if you can show that he willfully blinded himself to that information. But to show
00:42:51.200
that he willfully blinded himself, you know, it's the three monkeys, hear no evil, see no evil,
00:42:55.940
speak no evil. Trump didn't do that. He watched the movie 2,000 Mules. He listened to the people
00:43:02.620
on his side of the story. He also heard the people on the other side. We know that because
00:43:08.160
he reacted to it. He was furious at Fox News for declaring Biden the winner. So we know he heard
00:43:16.880
all sides of the argument, but he concluded erroneously, in my view, but in good faith in his
00:43:23.300
view. What is the difference between this and what Hillary Clinton said? Or honestly, what you,
00:43:31.460
the case you made in, uh, Bush versus score. I mean, it is the, it is your right to question it
00:43:40.340
at some point, you know, you should move on. Um, you know, unless it is corruption and that has to be
00:43:48.740
vetted, but at some point the system does move on, but you have the right to believe whatever you want
00:43:56.360
to believe. When did this become a crime when we've been hearing this for 25 years?
00:44:03.420
Well, uh, I wrote a book on it called Supreme Injustice, where I declared in my book that I
00:44:08.980
believe that the night that the 2000 election should have gone and did go to Al Gore. I believe more
00:44:15.600
people in Florida wanted to vote for Al Gore than wanted to vote for, um, uh, president, uh, uh, Bush.
00:44:22.840
The Supreme court said I was wrong. I still think I was right. I maintain that view. The argument that
00:44:29.860
the get Trump posse is putting forward today is that they didn't just say it, but they put up a
00:44:36.780
slate of fake electors. Well, that's exactly the way you're supposed to do. You're supposed to put up
00:44:42.460
alternate electors and let the Congress decide which slate of electors that Tilden Hayes that happened in
00:44:49.900
the, uh, 1960 election. Jamie Raskin was pushing in that direction. Lawrence Tribe in 2000 said that the
00:45:00.020
state of Florida had the right to, uh, recount up until January 6th. Uh, and, and now he denies that
00:45:07.420
that applies to Donald Trump because for Professor Tribe, the constitution means only what he believes
00:45:13.220
it means in behalf of his candidates, his ideology and his party. But, uh, reasonable people will say
00:45:19.980
if that argument was valid in Bush versus Gore, it was valid here as well. So it's going to be
00:45:27.700
a controversial case. Ultimately it'll get to the Supreme court, but the goal of the get Trump posse
00:45:33.520
is to get a down and dirty conviction before the election, knowing that it very likely will be
00:45:39.360
reversed after the election. But by that time, the election will have been influenced by the
00:45:44.360
conviction. That's the strategy. That's why you have Jack Smith moving for a January 2nd trial.
00:45:50.500
That was his original claim. They put it off to March 4th, but January 2nd to get a down and dirty
00:45:56.100
conviction before the primaries, before the election, influence the election, and then it'll be reversed
00:46:01.360
on appeal, but we don't care because that'll be after the election. This is, this is what I expected the
00:46:08.600
Soviet union to be like when I was a kid that you couldn't believe the newspapers, that the trials
00:46:14.100
were all rigged. It was show me the, show me the man. I'll find the crime. I'll show you the crime.
00:46:19.600
Um, and, and in just recently we have said, the press has said, we don't want to say anything about
00:46:27.460
this. The FBI, we don't do anything before an election because we don't want to influence
00:46:31.980
everything that, you know, the two judges fought over, what was it? March 4th. There were two
00:46:37.580
judges that wanted to put that on the day before. Well, there are now three trials scheduled for
00:46:44.780
March and one for May. Look, we're not Russia. Uh, our president doesn't shoot down the plane
00:46:50.360
carrying his political opponent. He doesn't kill lawyers like Ms. Nitsky, uh, who were in jail
00:46:57.580
representing people. We're not there. Uh, on my podcast, I have a podcast called the dirt show.
00:47:03.220
I award bananas and I started with just one banana. 10 makes you a banana Republic. But I have to tell
00:47:10.300
you after these three trials were scheduled for March, I am now up to six bananas. Uh, we're getting
00:47:17.260
close, unfortunately, and we have to stop it from being a banana Republic. When you go after the man
00:47:23.040
running against the incumbent president, you better have the strongest case imaginable. They don't.
00:47:28.820
And you better have the fairest process imaginable. They don't. They have a weak case with an unfair
00:47:35.100
process, a denial of due process. And that's banana land. That shouldn't be allowed to happen.
00:47:42.440
What, uh, do you think about all the attorneys being arrested?
00:47:46.820
Well, that's scary. I have a whole, I have a chapter in my book, uh, get Trump.
00:47:52.780
You are the best marketer ever. What are you going to do with all this money?
00:47:58.540
Well, I'm not making any money on this. Let me tell you what happened. No bookstores will carry
00:48:03.600
get Trump. They don't want to independent bookstores won't carry it. Even though it was number one
00:48:08.160
nonfiction bestseller on Amazon, the local bookstores won't carry it. So I write not to make money.
00:48:15.760
I write to have people read my views. And if you want to read my views on these trials, read,
00:48:20.920
get Trump. So I'm not going to be bashful about promoting it. I'm just going to get it in a
00:48:26.220
bookstore. And I fight against censorship. I love it. Um, but I talk about the lawyers that going
00:48:32.060
after the lawyers, Shakespeare's villain said, first, let's kill the lawyers. Um, I would say tongue,
00:48:38.680
put them in pig farms. Stalin killed the lawyers. Pol Pot killed the lawyers. Uh, Castro killed the
00:48:45.100
lawyers. Um, when you go after lawyers, when you arrest lawyers and prison lawyers,
00:48:50.260
name them as unindicted co-conspirators as they did in DC and indicted co-conspirators
00:48:55.660
in Fulton County, you're creating a real problem. First, you're telling other lawyers,
00:49:01.300
don't become lawyers for Donald Trump. And a lot of lawyers are listening. They don't want to be on
00:49:06.480
the wrong end of an indictment. They don't want to be on the wrong end of a bar complaint as I am now
00:49:10.720
on the wrong end of a bar complaint. And, um, and, and going after the lawyers is essentially the way
00:49:18.400
you destroy the rule of law. You can't have the rule of law unless you have lawyers. You know,
00:49:24.440
there's that great scene from a man for all seasons when, uh, Thomas Morris is asked, uh, would you chop,
00:49:33.360
would you give the rule of law to the devil? And he says, yes, because otherwise, uh, there'll be no
00:49:39.960
rule of law for the rest of us. And that has to be the current approach, but it's not.
00:49:45.480
So, um, as I understand it, and please help, help me understand, uh, as I understand it,
00:49:52.520
they are co-conspirators because look, for instance, Mark Meadows, because he got a phone number
00:50:01.360
that the president asked him to get. And I, I, uh, I mean, that seems like a, a pretty big stretch
00:50:11.400
there. And it's, well, the issue is now before a court in, um, in Georgia federal court, because
00:50:18.420
Mark Meadows is saying, look, I was the chief of staff. My job was to sit in and listen to the
00:50:25.160
president's phone calls. And I did. And the president said to the secretary of state,
00:50:29.740
Rafsenberger, uh, we need to find, find, uh, enough votes to turn the election in my favor.
00:50:36.920
He didn't say concoct. He didn't say manufacturer. He didn't say make up. He said, discover,
00:50:43.480
discover means that they're fine. They're there to be found. And it's what did Mark Meadows do wrong?
00:50:49.500
Listening to that phone call. There's an op-ed in today's times saying, oh, he should have gotten off
00:50:54.460
the phone. He should have put his letter of resignation on the desk. Well, that's your
00:50:58.360
opinion, but failure to do that. Doesn't make you a criminal. It is, uh, absolutely consistent
00:51:04.400
that Donald Trump would say it. If you read the transcript, he's saying we have 400,000 votes,
00:51:11.460
you know, that, that, that are out there, you know, there's only 11,000 that are needed to turn
00:51:18.040
this the other way. Look at the 400,000 votes, find just 11. You don't have to find all 400.
00:51:25.420
He, that is completely, completely consistent. We did the same thing in Bush versus Goal. We needed
00:51:31.260
570 votes or something like that. I guarantee you that the lawyers for Al Gore were on the phone
00:51:38.600
saying, we want the recount in this County because maybe we can find enough votes to put us over the
00:51:44.000
top. We don't want to recount in that County because that won't help us. They were very selective
00:51:48.500
in which recounts they wanted. And that's what the Supreme court ultimately pointed to and
00:51:53.740
rejecting recounts. But if you go back and look at everything that the Gore lawyers did in 2000,
00:52:01.100
you'll see striking similarities. Go back and read the memo. You want to hear the irony?
00:52:05.660
You know who wrote the memo for Al Gore? The same guy who wrote the memo for President Trump. His name
00:52:14.480
is Cheeseborough. He was Larry Tribe's research assistant. When Tribe wrote that memo in 2000,
00:52:20.920
now he's under indictment for essentially making very, very similar points. You know, the Torah says
00:52:29.120
in instructing judges, lo takir punim, do not recognize faces. You must do justice blind. You
00:52:36.520
can't know who the person is before you. That's why we have the statue of justice with the blindfold.
00:52:42.420
But now everything turns on. Is your name Trump or is your name Gore? Are you a Democrat? Are you a
00:52:48.020
Republican? Are you conservative? Are you liberal? Are you Trump? Trump, Trump, Trump. That's the name
00:52:54.700
of the game. It's in violation of the Bible. It's in violation of civil liberties. It's in violation of
00:52:59.740
the constitution. But the get Trump brigade couldn't care less. They'll violate anything to make sure
00:53:06.480
Trump can't run for president. All right. Before we get back to the final portion of
00:53:12.820
Alan Dershowitz, let me tell you, I'm a huge fan of the concept of buying things from people that don't
00:53:21.180
hate my guts, buying things from people that are ethical, moral, trying to do the right thing. And the
00:53:29.320
cream on the strawberries, if you will, is somebody who is trying to do it in America. That's really
00:53:38.200
hard, really hard. I don't mind spending my money for things like that. There are several companies
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that are building their companies with those kinds of values, your values. One of them is grip six.
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You're getting true American values. You are also supporting the American ranchers that grow the
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the wool. And this is specially bred sheep that produce this kind of wool that the American
00:54:04.120
manufacturers can take, wash it, process it and weave it into socks. They make great socks. They make great
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belts. Wallets are unbelievable, but they're all made here in America. They're all made by Americans.
00:54:16.440
Check out grip six today. That's grip six dot com slash back. Let me take you to the Florida case,
00:54:26.400
the Florida case with the documents. My first question, and maybe you would know, is this
00:54:31.380
is this normal that you would have a grand jury in that would convict a ham sandwich, as you have said,
00:54:39.740
in D.C. and then turn that case over to the state in which it was the crime was supposedly committed?
00:54:48.800
Isn't the wrong? It's wrong. OK, it's wrong. What they did is they got the rulings, the legal rulings,
00:54:56.200
and they were mistaken legal rulings, and they'll all be subject to appeal. They got the legal rulings
00:55:00.840
from friendly D.C. judges. They took the case down to Florida. And by bifurcating the case that way,
00:55:08.120
they sought to get an advantage. Now, look, the Justice Department has a slogan right in front
00:55:12.880
of the building. Justice is done not when the government wins, but when justice is done,
00:55:20.940
when we have a fair result. They're not supposed to be seeking every possible unfair tactical
00:55:27.000
advantage. They're supposed to be doing justice. Justice, justice, shall you pursue? Again, the Bible.
00:55:34.440
And the Justice Department today is not doing that. They're seeking political partisan advantage
00:55:41.080
in scheduling these trials, in the kinds of indictments, in the use of unindicted co-conspirators,
00:55:49.940
in going after lawyers. That's not justice. That's weaponization and partisanship.
00:55:55.820
Isn't the Florida case a case that you thought was fairly strong that might cause him some trouble?
00:56:04.480
I think that one incident is very strong. The waving of the document in front of, that's a strong
00:56:11.280
evidentiary case, but it's not a smoking gun. It's a smoking cigarette, but it's not that serious
00:56:17.760
a case. Although they call it espionage, there's no allegation that he turned the material over to an
00:56:23.600
enemy or made money off it. He was just showing off, hey, I used to be the president. I could have
00:56:28.620
declassified this. I didn't. It's still secret, but I'm showing it to you. You know, that's, it's,
00:56:33.880
it's bragged dishio, but it's not, and maybe it's technically criminal, but it's, it's a butt. It's a
00:56:41.920
So, um, when you look at this and you say their objective is to, uh, make sure that he can't run or
00:56:50.820
be president again, um, I'm, I'm not so sure. I, I think they actually would like to put him in jail
00:56:59.200
if they could. I, I think the, the, the, the hatred is so great that they want to see him in jail.
00:57:06.780
See, I don't think there's a day. I think there are many who would like to see him in jail. Yes.
00:57:13.000
People I know, friends who want to see him in jail. There are others who would be satisfied if he
00:57:18.220
made a plea bargain. There was an article just the other day proposing a plea bargain. If he drops out
00:57:22.980
of the race, they'll drop the charges or they'll drop the threat of imprisonment. He's not going to
00:57:28.060
do that. No. Donald Trump is not going to do that because nor should they be. No, nor should he.
00:57:33.140
No, it's not depriving him of being president. It's depriving you of the right to vote for who
00:57:39.400
you want to vote for for president. I defend your right to vote against my best interests. You know,
00:57:44.980
democracy doesn't assure you an outcome. It only assures you a process. That process is voting.
00:57:52.480
Every American should vote. Every eligible voter should vote. The electoral college should then
00:57:58.560
decide who is the next president. Not some secretary of state in Iowa, not some judge in the District
00:58:06.920
of Columbia, a judge whose background is completely anti-Trump and completely pro-Democrat, a judge who
00:58:15.460
worked for one of the most corrupt law firms in America, got her education at the knees of corruption.
00:58:22.340
And and and it's just unfair. And the case has to be taken away from her and has to be taken out of
00:58:31.620
the District of Columbia to a fair place where justice can be done again. If you're going after
00:58:37.060
the man running against the incumbent president, you have to be Caesar's wife. You have to lean over
00:58:42.080
backwards. You have to make sure that every I is dotted, every T is crossed. They're doing it exactly
00:58:47.720
the opposite way. They're doing it in a way that wouldn't be fair to anybody. It certainly isn't
00:58:52.440
fair to the American public who wants to vote for Donald Trump. OK, let me change now to the to the
00:58:58.440
other side. When Trump was being impeached, I told my staff, look, I want you to put the blindfolds on.
00:59:08.000
I don't care if we like Trump or hate Trump. I want the truth as much as we can find. OK,
00:59:15.520
so the truth of our understanding, go and get as many documents and pieces of evidence and let's put
00:59:22.700
this together. And we came to the conclusion that this is actually what Biden and, you know,
00:59:28.740
Burisma and and Newland, et cetera. They were kind of they were they were involved in some nefarious
00:59:37.120
things, at least in my opinion, with Newland and that there was massive corruption going on.
00:59:43.840
And it looked to me like it was, you know, pot calling the kettle black, trying to make sure
00:59:51.620
that nobody was seeing these things. So I've been on this story for several years. I've been watching
00:59:57.740
it and and I I know many of the facts. But I said at the time, this isn't a court of law. I can't I can't
01:00:06.620
tell you that these things absolutely happen. This is where the evidence leads me. However,
01:00:12.780
absolutely. Right. However, we are now getting to a point to where, you know, you have the 70 red flags
01:00:20.120
from from banks to the Treasury. You have the shell companies, all of the kids and family getting money,
01:00:29.540
him saying he didn't meet with the business or oligarchs. And then we find out that he did.
01:00:34.900
And the pseudonym emails, which we don't know anything about yet. The State Department,
01:00:39.940
that memo where it says, give them the money, they've done enough. And then Biden saying,
01:00:46.460
I'm not giving you the money because you're not qualified for it, which is exactly what his son
01:00:53.160
needed. And then and the latest. And this is not something that you can convict over. But but
01:00:59.940
Shokin actually saying, yeah, I mean, I don't have evidence, but I think this is exactly what was going
01:01:07.540
on. What do you make of this? What I make of it is that there is probable cause. There is enough to
01:01:16.300
appoint a special counsel. And that is essential. Now, already Biden has a special counsel, but only
01:01:23.080
looking at the classified material. Again, the cigarette butt. Here we need a special counsel
01:01:28.000
to look into Burisma, to look into China, to look into all the relationships between Hunter Biden
01:01:35.600
and people. Was was President Biden or Vice President Biden at the time? Was he there when
01:01:42.740
that email was sent? Was he on phone calls? Right. All of that has to be looked at by a special
01:01:48.580
counsel. That special counsel should be somebody who's above reproach, a former judge, a former
01:01:55.120
justice, a former president of a university, somebody who's not political, somebody who doesn't
01:02:01.200
come from the Justice Department, a totally outside person. Remember, the rules require that it be
01:02:06.900
somebody outside the government. They violated that rule when they again twice to be the special
01:02:12.360
counsel. But to go after the president. Look, I hope Joe Biden did nothing wrong. I've known Joe Biden
01:02:18.080
since 1980. I like him personally. He's a nice man. I don't believe he's corrupt, but I have an open mind
01:02:26.120
and I'm not the one who makes that decision. The decision should be made initially by a special
01:02:31.080
counsel appointed to look into President Biden. It's a it's a it's an important step and it's a
01:02:38.720
controversial step, but it must be done. You cannot allow Merrick Garland to make that decision.
01:02:45.040
Merrick Garland serves at the pleasure of the president. It has to be somebody who doesn't serve
01:02:49.580
at the pleasure of the president, who isn't appointed by the president, who doesn't owe anything to the
01:02:54.940
president. Until we do that second step of appointing a special counsel, it's going to be
01:03:00.960
speculation. And that's not healthy for America. You know what this election is going to boil down to
01:03:05.640
in a year from now? Who's the worst criminal family, the Biden family or the Trump family?
01:03:11.320
That's not how we should be electing presidents of the United States. We should be able to put all
01:03:16.920
this behind us and decide the presidency on foreign policy, on the economy, on jobs,
01:03:22.100
on the climate, on a range of issues that every American cares about.
01:03:30.860
You know, in Israel, they say a pessimist. Somebody says, oh, you think things are so bad
01:03:35.500
they can't get worse? And the optimist says, yes, they can. I have mixed views of that.
01:03:43.740
They could get worse. They could get much worse. And I think long term they're going to be worse
01:03:48.560
because of the new McCarthyism of the woke generation. But we can survive this. Our
01:03:53.380
Constitution was built to survive this. But we have to apply the rule of law. The biggest
01:03:58.040
disappointment are the lawyers, the lawyers who have not come to defend the rule of law,
01:04:03.040
the lawyers who have not come to defend lawyers, the lawyers who have taken sides and are in favor
01:04:10.620
of disbarring and disciplining people who are on a side different from them. They're the biggest
01:04:16.460
disappointment. And when the lawyers fail to perform their job in doing justice, we're in
01:04:21.860
deep trouble. You said a little while ago that, you know, when we have a whole bunch of 10 bananas,
01:04:28.020
we have a banana republic. You said you have six of them now. That's four left. Are they just
01:04:34.140
bananas that you'll know when you see them? Or are they specific things you're looking for?
01:04:39.200
Well, I'm hoping to reduce a banana or two if the Court of Appeals strikes down the
01:04:46.120
scheduling, the unfair scheduling. And I think it's possible that a Court of Appeals will say,
01:04:52.840
no, no, no, March 4th. You can't read 12 million pages by March 4th. They lose a banana if that
01:04:59.120
happens. If, on the other hand, the Court of Appeals upholds it, they gain a banana. So,
01:05:03.760
you know, we're in very vulnerable territory. What I'm afraid of today, I'm disappointed with
01:05:10.820
the lawyers. I'm also disappointed with moderate Republicans, people like Judge Lutech, who are
01:05:17.640
Federalist Society people, who generally support the conservative side, but they hate Trump with
01:05:23.240
such a passion that they're prepared to give up their commitment to constitutionalism. The Federalist
01:05:29.820
Society has been a very important source of constitutionalism. But many in that society
01:05:36.100
have fallen prey to the get Trump posse and say, look, we're conservatives, we're Federalists,
01:05:42.320
and we're saying that this trial, you know, a bunch of lawyers from the Federalist Society
01:05:47.240
filed a brief with the court in D.C. saying the trial should be January 2nd, January 2nd. That's three
01:05:54.800
months from now. Four months from now. That's ridiculous to the idea you can read 12 million
01:06:01.900
pages or the idea that you shouldn't read them. You know what's going to happen. If he gets convicted,
01:06:07.720
they're going to then say there was a violation of Brady. They didn't disclose certain material.
01:06:12.820
The government's going to say, oh, we disclosed that we gave you 12 million pages. And on page,
01:06:16.960
you know, 11,376,000 in footnote 16, if you looked at that, you would have seen it was the
01:06:23.420
exculpatory material. That's the game they play. I've seen it. I've argued that. And that's what's
01:06:29.680
going on here today. 12 million pages. And you expect either them not to read it or to read it.
01:06:38.200
Alan, I wish we had been neighbors and my children would have grown up sitting around your table or my
01:06:49.260
Well, we can still do it. We do it on television. So that's almost as good as over a meal. But it
01:06:55.700
would have been nice growing up as a neighbor. I don't know how you would have fit into Brooklyn,
01:07:00.220
but I would have liked it, but I don't know if I would have fit in. Alan, as always, thank you so
01:07:07.080
much. Happy birthday again. And hopefully we'll get you down here to just tell me the stories of the
01:07:15.860
things you have witnessed because you have witnessed a great deal. Thank you. Thank you. God bless. Thank
01:07:27.820
Just a reminder, I'd love you to rate and subscribe to the podcast and pass this on to a friend so it