Ep 205 ｜ Texas Bishop Removed by Pope Francis Sets the Record Straight ｜ The Glenn Beck Podcast
Episode Stats
Length
1 hour and 10 minutes
Words per Minute
138.8982
Summary
In 2012, Bishop John Strickland was chosen by Pope Benedict XVI as the fourth Bishop of the Diocese of Tyler, Texas. Last November, he was asked to resign by the new Pope, Pope Francis. The question is, why? Was he too political? Was his criticism of the Pope out of line? The Vatican is still silent, but he s here to tell his side of the story.
Transcript
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In 2012, he was chosen by Pope Benedict XVI as the fourth bishop of the Diocese of Tyler, Texas.
00:00:36.880
Well, last November, he was asked to resign by the new pope, Pope Francis.
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Today on the Glenn Beck Podcast, welcome Bishop Strickland.
00:01:04.120
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So a lot of people don't know the story, don't have any idea even who you are.
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A lot of people in Texas are very aware of you and around the country because you have been very outspoken on a few things, and then the Pope fired you.
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Nothing official, but because I've spoken out and said the truth doesn't change, and there's really an agenda, clearly, from the Vatican and Pope Francis to say the truth has changed.
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And I feel the obligation as a successor of the apostles in our Catholic faith to say, no.
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Actually, there's some clear warnings that don't listen if they try to bring a new gospel.
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The word that was used in the letter, very brief letter, was relieved.
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You're relieved of your responsibility as Bishop of Tyler.
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So are you, but you're still a priest or a bishop?
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Yes, that's basically the category I fall into, Bishop Emeritus or retired Bishop of Tyler.
00:04:06.600
But this has come, I mean, there was quite a bit of pushback and forth.
00:04:12.840
You were one of them, some people say this was one of the reasons why you were retired, is because you went out to Los Angeles when the Dodgers were holding the, you know, perpetual sisters of mercy or whatever.
00:04:31.180
And clearly mocking Christ, clearly mocking Catholics and nuns.
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And while everybody has a right to free speech, for the Dodgers to endorse that, especially in the City of Angels, was shocking.
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And for you to show up, but I guess that was wrong because you didn't have permission, that's not your area?
00:05:00.260
Well, interestingly, as you know, with working in the media, long before Dodger Stadium happened, I already knew that I was going to have this apostolic visitation.
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And with, I mean, the first part of June, this happened later in June was when the Dodger Stadium, I forget the date, but I knew well before Dodger Stadium that I was already having a visitation.
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People said, oh, he's getting a visitation because he went to Dodger Stadium.
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And certainly, me going to Dodger Stadium, the Archbishop did know, Archbishop of Los Angeles, Archbishop Gomez.
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I notified him that I'd been asked to be there.
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I didn't volunteer, but I was invited and I said, yeah, I think somebody needs to go.
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I didn't expect a large crowd, but I didn't know I would be the only one.
00:06:10.020
I guess that sort of, it does follow the narrative for why I was removed because I'm doing these things that are, it's like, oh, that's not how we operate.
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Well, I believe as a successor of the apostles, we have to look back to the apostles.
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So losing your position is far short of losing your life.
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So I really believe that we as Catholics and we as leaders of the Catholic Church, we need to operate differently.
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It's gotten me in trouble, but I feel I'm in good company with the apostles, the original apostles and many bishops through the ages that have said no to some of the agenda that's out there.
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So let's go back, just spend a little bit on what truth is unchangeable.
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Well, what we call the deposit of faith, which I've been told you're talking too much about the deposit of faith.
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The magisterial teachings of the church documents through the ages.
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The catechism captures a lot of the deposit of faith.
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A lot of the writings of the early fathers that didn't become scripture, but were very well respected writings.
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Well, there's, there's a big social agenda that, you know, is encouraged to be more of the focus, which certainly that comes from the deposit of faith.
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It's guided by that, the values that should be there.
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But I think we, you know, I believe we need to return to, as, as I have said often, we need to be first century Christians in the 21st century.
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And a lot of that is being, you know, discounted or actually pushed back against.
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What does that mean to be, that's not to be anti-modernity.
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But I am in favor of modernity being guided by those foundational principles.
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I believe that those basics, I mean, a lot of people that, oh, how antiquated you are, but.
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It's how God put it together and that's how it works.
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And trying to pretend that we're God and we can revamp everything.
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It doesn't even work very long at all, but certainly not long term.
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And that's, I guess that's the message I keep trying to bring, even though I am no longer a diocesan bishop.
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And I feel like I need to continue to speak the truth with the greatest charity, I believe, is to speak the truth and to share with people.
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There are a lot of confused people in the world today and a lot of confused Catholics.
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But the cutting through the confusion is the truth.
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If we proclaim Jesus Christ, we're still in our faith, we're still in the Christmas season.
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I know Christmas is way back in the rearview mirror.
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For most people, we're looking to Valentine's Day.
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You know, that's the next event, next sales opportunity in our society.
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And really, Glenn, I have to say, just from my life as a man of faith, my relationship with Jesus Christ, my knowledge of him, my life with him has deepened in the time that I've been a bishop.
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And it's because of that, that I know it's because of that, that I have the strength to speak in opposition to powers that many are not willing to speak against.
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This is why people of faith, real faith, are so dangerous to authoritarians or anything else.
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Because I know for a fact, I don't have to do this job anymore.
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You know, I do it because I'm a man of faith and I believe people are called at a certain time for certain things.
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And the only reason why I don't want to do it is because it's a nightmare.
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But my faith is what gets me out of bed every day.
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My faith is what I feel as though, no, you never gave up on me.
00:12:01.860
I'm not going to stop doing what you asked me to do.
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And what you asked me to do was just stand in place.
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And really, Glenn, what you just said, I have heard countless people thanking me for my voice,
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my speaking up, because it supports them in saying exactly what you just said.
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And if you look at the saints through the ages, they are people who opposed, looked authority in the eye of their day and said,
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no, we're going to stay faithful to Jesus Christ.
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And most of them paid the ultimate price in the end.
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Kipling wrote about the gods of the copybook headings.
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It, with terror and slaughter, the truth will return, unfortunately, because everything starts to shake apart.
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Talk to me a little bit about 61% of Catholics.
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And I'd like to see who they're saying are Catholics.
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Part of that, and like you said, who are they talking to?
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61% of Catholics believe that gay marriage is fine.
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That means, that just highlights the poor job of catechesis the church has done in my lifetime and beyond.
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That people haven't been taught what the church teaches.
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Because if they really know what the church teaches, they're either going to say, I reject that, and I'm no longer Catholic.
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These fundamental principles, and as you said, Glenn, I mean, there are all kinds of accusations of hatred and bigotry.
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Phobias, it's simply saying, this is the truth of how God created us.
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And the sexual questions all come down to very simple in Catholic teaching.
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To be actively living a sexual relationship, it's a very narrow path.
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And does the world or the Catholic community live it?
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But it's a narrow path of one man, one woman, married for life, committed for life, and open to children.
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And from the Catholic Church's point of view, it's a beautiful expression of God working among us.
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A man and a woman committed and open to children, open to life.
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It's the only time you're partnering with the Creator.
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And all, I mean, if you take, again, going back to Scripture, Christ says it's a narrow path.
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And the world wants the wide, you know, 12-lane avenue saying, oh, you can get to God no matter what you do and however you want to live, Christ says it's a narrow path.
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And I think that's a good expression of if you look at the sexual world we live in, which is oversexed, and the church has been, you know, beat up through my lifetime saying, oh, you're so down on sex.
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But if you listen to Christ in that narrow path, then, you know, how many ways is that violated on a daily basis on the planet?
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It's just humanity is way off track as far as all that.
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So it's hard, I think, for most people, especially Americans, I think, because Americans will take it personally, where I think Europeans just don't care.
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They've been, you know, France has been crazy for a very long time.
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But I think where the change comes in America is Americans, at least used to, kind of lead with their heart.
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And so they see two people, and it used to be that that's not a choice.
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And I know people who are gay and have struggled and didn't want to, you know what I mean?
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They're like, I don't, you know, back a few years ago, it was pariah time.
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So why would anyone other than a sadistic person choose that?
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And so people are like, I don't want to judge you.
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But there's a difference between the sacrament of marriage and me loving and having compassion to you.
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And I think that you hear, I hear very often people go at me and say, oh, you're judgment, you're judging.
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And God only knows what's truly in your heart, what's in my heart.
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We're obligated, I believe, that faith teaches us to get our hearts aligned with God's truth as fully as we can.
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And we pray that we do that to the best of our ability, relying heavily on God's mercy.
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But to acknowledge that that is how we're supposed to live.
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So any individual, I mean, we all have failings.
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We all have things that are a challenge for us to overcome.
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Christ says, deny yourself, take up your cross, and follow me.
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And we're not in a time where people want to deny themselves anything.
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And even in the church, there's a tendency to avoid the cross.
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And it's just like, skip one and two, and let's just follow Jesus.
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Christ himself told us it doesn't work that way.
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And out of the greatest compassion, I mean, as you alluded to, Glenn, thankfully, we've moved away from a time of persecution and of really denigrating people for whatever their sinful inclination may be.
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For people who have been persecuted for so long, people who have hid in the closets, lost jobs on whispers, to then cause people to lose their jobs on whispers is incredible to me.
00:20:12.860
When I was at the Vatican, I went to, I don't remember what the ceremony is, where they appoint the new cardinals.
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And I learned so much watching and attending some of the things.
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But I stood there in a room with all these cardinals and all the new cardinals.
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And it was like a, I don't know, an hors d'oeuvre.
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I don't want to say a cocktail party, but it was like an hors d'oeuvre evening and everybody was, you know.
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And I was, I was standing with a few cardinals that were just so pious and just, you could just, they were screaming Christ.
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And we were talking and the guy who was, I don't want to identify him, but he was very high up and not a fan of the last Pope walked in.
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He was surrounded by politicians and he came in and I swear to you, the room dropped 20 degrees.
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And I looked at the guys and I said, who is that?
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And they laughed and said, oh, you can feel that?
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Said that's one of the leaders of the, they said there's this good versus evil kind of thing in the church.
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And I think it's in all of our churches and they are in humanity.
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And they are, they are real forces trying to disrupt it.
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So when you say you were standing, you know, I can't say you were standing against the Pope, but when you were speaking out, were you speaking out about the Pope or that evil fight that's in all of our churches?
00:22:31.200
Well, I think it's the evil fight is absolutely what I'm focused on.
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And as I've said to others, to me, the best way I can support Pope Francis or whoever the Pope is at any given time, the job of the Pope is guarding that deposit of faith, of keeping strong in Christ.
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I mean, just like St. Peter, who wavered, you know, denied, but ultimately became strong, returned to Rome and died in an upside down cross as his Lord had died on a cross.
00:23:08.860
And that is, to me, the greatest way to support Pope Francis is to stand for the truth.
00:23:16.260
Because as I've acknowledged talking to others, as you're mentioning, there are evil forces pushing and prodding and tempting all of us.
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I mean, Pope Francis and myself, all of us are being bombarded by these forces to say, oh, we've got to change this.
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And so the best support to Pope Francis is to say, no, this truth doesn't change.
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I will tell you, if I'm Satan, I want every church to look like the United Methodist Church.
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I want every church to abandon everything in the scripture and do what feels good and is popular today.
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You know, I want poetry readings, not readings from the scriptures.
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And I think the people who are awake are sensing for the first time, real for the first time in at least my life.
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It's just, it's connecting things together without phone calls.
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Are we at a place in the church, not just yours, but church overall, are we in a place where we become Europe?
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Or are we in a place where these may be the days that Christ has to return and correct?
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Do we turn into Europe and just, there's no faith anywhere?
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I see more and more people being strengthened in their faith in the midst of all of this.
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I mean, I travel a lot and talk to a lot of people.
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Of course, if they're talking to me, it's in a certain category.
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There's certainly some that would not let me in the room, you know.
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But as I talk to people, I think people that are true believers, I think there's a strengthening there.
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And really, Glenn, I would say it crosses the denominational lines.
00:25:44.680
I mean, denominations are not of Christ and are not of God.
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I mean, I believe he established the church that is the Catholic church.
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And that ultimately, following Jesus Christ will bring us to his truth.
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But as you will, I mean, those 61%, if that's accurate, that's a lot of Catholics who don't know what being Catholic really means.
00:26:12.080
And there are others that aren't Catholic, but know very strongly what this truth is, that Jesus Christ is the face of truth.
00:26:23.800
That's why, as a Catholic priest and now bishop, the sacraments, especially the Eucharist, for me, he's there.
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We see Christ, and certainly veiled under bread, the consecrated bread.
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That is our faith, that he's really present there.
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And so, he is the one that has to be the principle of unity that brings us all together.
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And I see that happening across – I mean, there are Catholics that aren't really being of Christ.
00:27:02.140
And there are others that are that aren't Catholic.
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The interesting thing about Christ is everybody focuses on his compassion.
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But what we only see now is this, that sweet Jesus.
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And I think Jesus, if he were to return today, would look each of us in the eye deeply and scare the crap out of us.
00:28:22.060
He is all the goodness of creation in the person of the God-man that is Jesus Christ.
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And if you listen to him in the gospel, he speaks very clearly.
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I mean, he's always going at it with the scribes and Pharisees.
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If you read through all the gospels, I mean, not just as he's approaching his crucifixion, but really throughout his ministry.
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I mean, there are many times where they're ready to push him off the cliff.
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But isn't that, isn't that, I mean, we've seen this with the Great Awakenings in America.
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It doesn't come from within the church usually.
00:29:05.400
And the church grows in its arrogance and its ways and justice becomes corrupt.
00:29:14.440
And somebody points it out and says, ah, this is not what we started out as.
00:29:22.860
But the Great Awakenings always happen outside of the church, not inside.
00:29:34.120
The evangelical churches, you know, the Catholic Church has Rome to answer to.
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But Rome owns all of that property and everything else.
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Because the evangelicals, if you're a pastor at a church, you're on the hook for that.
00:29:51.700
And that's hard to say the truth when you're on the hook for that.
00:30:00.040
And can I moderate somewhat to make sure I don't lose everybody?
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And I think that temptation to moderate is rampant and across the lines of any churches,
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any gathering of people, because you're afraid of losing some of your base.
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And you had, there was, let me see if I can get this right.
00:30:29.820
I think there were 10,000, it was crazy, 10,000 people, yeah, 10,000 Christians signed a petition
00:30:38.480
thanking Pope Francis for removing you because they said you were a notoriously election denying,
00:30:45.420
QAnon spreading, Francis bashing, vaccine rejecting, LGBTQ hating, division sowing, fire breathing darling of right wing Twitter.
00:30:58.320
That your agenda went far beyond culture wars to full blown Christian nationalism, even appearing at the Stop the Steal MAGA event.
00:31:14.760
And there, you know, there are a lot of things that, as you know, they have to write the narrative.
00:31:22.080
I did not appear at a Stop the Steal MAGA event.
00:31:26.180
I offered a prayer via video for the people gathered there.
00:31:33.000
And if you listen to that prayer, I didn't get political.
00:31:36.980
I just prayed for the nation and for the people gathered.
00:31:50.180
I certainly don't embrace whatever it is because I don't know what it is.
00:31:55.000
And really, as you know better than I do, everything is politicized.
00:32:02.560
And there's a lot of politics in the Catholic Church, in all the churches.
00:32:09.060
So, yeah, when I speak up about the truth of the faith, that's all I care about, really.
00:32:19.720
And I'm deeply grieved by what I see happening to this nation.
00:32:28.660
We better wake up as a nation before it's too late, if it's not already too late.
00:32:34.840
But what's interesting to me is I think God will weep.
00:32:41.220
He will be saddened, just like I am with my children when they're going off doing something.
00:32:58.020
And if we can't protect those rights, He'll find another group of people to do it.
00:33:14.940
But as a successor of the apostles, my mission is to try to stick with the truth.
00:33:25.640
I like the image of the plumb line of truth and just stay with that.
00:33:30.500
There are all kinds of forces pushing us every different direction, but you have to keep going
00:33:36.620
And that plumb line is written by Jesus Christ.
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I believe that's why God sent His Son to show us someone we could talk to, we could relate
00:33:48.640
to, is still His divine Son, fully God and fully man, like us in all things but sin.
00:33:58.240
And that, I think, is what a lot of people, thankfully, are doing, returning to looking to
00:34:06.940
Really, Glenn, as a Catholic bishop, I encourage you to keep your heart open to that faith that
00:34:16.660
you were, it sounds like you had it, raised in at one time.
00:34:21.520
Maybe not raised very well, but it's the truth that I will die for.
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And I would die for your faith as well, because we have Christ in common and truth in common.
00:34:41.160
Let me go back to that statement that had everything rolled in.
00:34:45.660
I guess you were also worse than Hitler and everybody else.
00:34:52.420
What's your understanding of Christian nationalism?
00:34:54.960
Honestly, Glenn, I don't have a lot of understanding of that, but I'm, I don't, Christian and nationalism,
00:35:09.540
But to me, you know, Jesus Christ, I mean, that's one of the blessings and, you know, the
00:35:30.080
It's a way of living the truth that the Son of God has revealed to us.
00:35:35.400
And so, just hearing that, it sounds like Christian nationalism, there's a lot that I would reject
00:35:45.360
I mean, I don't know what the concept is, but it doesn't sound right.
00:35:48.600
So, Catholics are being blamed for a lot of it, and especially, and I want to get into
00:35:56.700
And it is, I can see people get wrapped up in it easily because, what's wrong with loving
00:36:07.180
What's wrong with living by Christ's principles and saying our country should do that?
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That's different than what Christian nationalism really means.
00:36:18.280
And, you know, I would love to hear your thought on first and second citizenships.
00:36:35.180
I will do nothing to lose either passport, but if I have to lose one of them, I'm losing
00:36:50.780
You know, we don't fix America by a church coming in and saying, you're going to do this.
00:36:55.900
And it's by Christ living amongst us saying, don't do that.
00:37:09.280
Well, Glenn, you mentioned earlier that as Americans, we tend to act from the heart.
00:37:18.300
And that is what, that's how I operate for me as a Catholic priest, the heart that I look
00:37:31.980
And that brings a whole different tone to everything we're trying to face.
00:37:38.000
For one thing, the arrogance that so easily creeps in to the human endeavor.
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It's his sacred heart that we all have to be moved to.
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And that's really the ultimate work of any church is to bring people closer to Christ.
00:38:07.620
And to force that is antithetical to what it means to be Christian.
00:38:14.300
And you look, and that's what, through all of this, what's helped, you know, keep me more
00:38:20.640
I mean, obviously people think I'm insane, but I don't think I'm certifiable yet.
00:38:36.740
And he doesn't go on the attack, but he doesn't compromise the truth either.
00:38:44.360
When people walk away, I mean, one of the favorite passages for me as a kid growing up, my parents
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used to quote to us St. Peter as some are leaving because of various reasons.
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And so they say, oh, we can't take that, whether they're talking about the Eucharist or whatever
00:39:04.840
As he's standing there, truth incarnate is in their presence and people walk away because
00:39:13.900
But what Peter's response is, Lord, to whom shall we go?
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And there is nowhere to go except deeper into Christ.
00:39:24.660
So, yeah, I mean, as human beings, there are various aspects of the gospel that are challenging
00:39:32.400
that we may say if we were writing it, we'd have a different approach to what the truth
00:39:39.380
But part of it is that humble submission to what the truth is.
00:39:45.200
And I really believe that has to be guided, it's heart-driven ultimately.
00:39:52.000
All the intellect in the world, I mean, I love to quote St. Thomas Aquinas, one of the
00:40:02.620
What he's written, the Summa Theologica, is straw compared to the God that he's trying
00:40:10.660
And I think it's always that beyond us reality that God calls us and calls us to share in.
00:40:19.040
I mean, the Catholic teaching, the code of Canada law, I studied Canada law of the Catholic
00:40:24.700
Church, and the last canon says it's all about the salvation of souls.
00:40:33.740
And I've actually been ridiculed for saying, you know, you're talking about the salvation
00:40:38.000
of souls, we've got to worry about all these social ills and all these problems, really.
00:40:47.220
If we get things aligned to the salvation of every soul and the treasuring of every child
00:40:53.180
of God as God treasures us, then, you know, the ills and the wars and the violence and the
00:41:03.180
I mean, that's what Christ's kingdom is preaching.
00:41:07.300
And it's amazing to me how you fight against it.
00:41:12.400
I mean, I'm a recovering alcoholic, screwed up my life six ways to Sunday, and had a real
00:41:22.620
And I remember being on my knees, just begging, begging, begging, begging, I can't do it.
00:41:31.980
And once I accepted the atonement, once I had and I actually accepted that gift and lived
00:41:45.640
a free man again from all my sins, all my other problems went away.
00:41:53.600
I didn't, I didn't, I didn't have a desire to drink.
00:42:06.500
I, I don't know how, I don't think I could have done it without the atonement of Jesus
00:42:13.140
I, I, because you, that gift is so powerful that not only do I not want to, cause I can
00:42:26.940
Not only do I not want to, I don't want to break that.
00:42:30.600
I also don't have a desire to, you know, it's such a great gift.
00:42:34.840
It makes it so easy to go, nope, can't do that.
00:42:49.060
And really, Glenn, I think as through the years with all the controversies, COVID and all the,
00:42:54.880
the, the political division in the country and all the protests, I've often thought, I
00:43:01.280
mean, looking at, you know, some crowd that's all, you know, inflamed about one thing or
00:43:06.720
another, I wonder, and it, it, it probably sounds sort of pietistic, but I mean it very
00:43:17.380
I wonder how many people in whatever this situation is really believe that they are loved by God
00:43:31.860
I truly think that that's a big part of our problem.
00:43:35.180
Young people that take their lives or just in desperate desolation.
00:43:40.860
They don't know God's love and it's not some, you know, Hallmark card.
00:43:46.800
It's deep and sacrificial and as gutsy as anything in the world.
00:43:59.500
And when you unlock that, then life makes sense.
00:44:04.840
And I, I celebrate people who don't need the atonement as much as I did, uh, or as, you
00:44:11.520
know, went lost for so long, but it is, it is the re it is the only reason.
00:44:20.860
And when you are being told, you'll never make it without me, my party, my money, my philosophy,
00:44:30.840
whatever it is, you have every earmark of Satan right there in that conversation.
00:45:03.980
And that's why I think we, we have, you cannot be so embittered and so hopeless and, uh, uh,
00:45:17.540
and so angry and vengeful if you know who God is.
00:45:24.140
Or at least the God of Judeo-Christian understanding.
00:45:30.200
Um, can we just, I want to just talk politics for just a second.
00:45:35.180
Um, John F. Kennedy was the first Catholic and everybody said he'd answer to the Pope and
00:45:46.580
he didn't answer to the Pope and he wasn't the perfect man by any stretch of the imagination.
00:45:51.540
But generally speaking, I think he did a lot of good for Catholics image wise, et cetera,
00:46:00.060
And I have these people in my faith that I, I look at as their politicians and I see that
00:46:08.760
And I'm like, well, I know what my faith teaches.
00:46:19.320
Uh, you, you have the second Catholic president.
00:46:24.280
How do you think they're doing in representing the church?
00:46:28.680
Well, because they're very, they're not, it's not like they're subtle on it.
00:46:36.820
They are smack in the middle of that 61% that are poorly catechized.
00:46:43.420
It's really that they, and I, I really think that that, I mean, not to, you know, we all
00:46:51.200
Um, so there's, there's a responsibility there, but I've heard quotes from Nancy Pelosi
00:46:59.320
She may, that may be very honest, but if they've taught her that what she's doing is
00:47:06.680
being a faithful Catholic, she was poorly catechized.
00:47:10.560
She didn't get the truth of the Catholic faith.
00:47:14.960
So I was a kid during the turmoil of 50 years ago, right after the Vatican, second Vatican
00:47:24.440
I mean, very similar questions bouncing around.
00:47:27.920
And, you know, if, if that's when she was catechized, she didn't get the, the deposit of faith.
00:47:34.820
She got a distorted sort of updated, you know, seventies, eighties version that left out a lot
00:47:43.880
of the challenge and a lot of the beauty and a lot of the, the power of the Catholic faith.
00:47:56.700
If I, if I'm not mistaken, the Pope doesn't want the Latin mass and well, I don't want the
00:48:03.780
Latin mass cause I don't speak Latin, but if I wanted to go to a Latin mass, it'd be like,
00:48:09.020
I want to go to a Spanish language mass, you know, and I know it's different tradition,
00:48:18.720
Well, that's a complicated question, but I think, um, there is a push against the Latin
00:48:27.720
One understanding that I have is because there's a push against the truth.
00:48:36.620
There's a push against the, the supernatural elements that are there.
00:48:42.140
I mean, they're spoken of as backwards and we have to update and, but understanding the
00:48:47.800
mass really, and I'm not, I'm certainly not an expert in the Latin mass.
00:48:54.600
That door was locked until a few years ago for me.
00:49:01.980
And if you were there, you'd say, this guy's still got a lot to learn.
00:49:07.120
I mean, it's, I have to look at, okay, what do I do next?
00:49:23.960
And that's the reason, I mean, one of the problems that the Vatican had with me was that
00:49:34.400
And I said, which this document that said, kill the Latin mass, which a lot of bishops
00:49:40.740
haven't, but you know, that was just one thing against me.
00:49:48.060
And, but the, the Latin mass and the Novus Ordo, all the different forms of the mass
00:49:56.960
in whatever language, as long as bread and wine are brought to that altar and words of
00:50:02.960
consecration are said, transubstantiation is the classic word in the Catholic faith.
00:50:08.740
We believe that bread and wine becomes the body and blood, soul and divinity of Jesus
00:50:16.460
Christ, the incarnate son of God that you can read about in the gospel in whatever passage
00:50:25.100
He died and he rose and his, his risen body is there on the altar, body and blood, soul
00:50:33.700
I know that many people say, ah, that's ridiculous.
00:50:40.400
The point of whatever form of the mass, and this is what I've tried to push as Bishop of
00:50:46.960
Tyler and now just as Bishop, let's focus on him.
00:50:54.560
He comes there in any valid form of the mass and the, the Novus Ordo mass is valid.
00:51:02.880
There are many different, there are like 22 different rites in the Catholic church.
00:51:08.820
I'm not well versed in most of those, but when transubstantiation happens, we need to bow.
00:51:21.820
We need to know that the Lord of the universe is there on that altar or that simple, whatever
00:51:28.600
it is, the grandest marble altar or the simplest wooden, you know, just recently erected altar.
00:51:39.200
And so to me, the Latin mass is an ancient power that frankly, powers that be in the world today
00:51:56.760
Every mass is and should be deeply because Christ shows up.
00:52:02.680
The son of, if you really believe that, that bread and wine become his body and blood, soul
00:52:08.180
and divinity, then reverence, respect, looking at everything, focusing on him.
00:52:17.180
Frankly, I believe it, and I don't claim to know all the answers, but my impression is
00:52:24.640
we've got to get rid of the Latin mass because it speaks of a supernatural power that's interfering
00:52:43.280
I mean, I've talked to, um, priests that are exorcists and they will tell you there is
00:52:51.580
a, I mean, every mass, I mean, it's Christ, Christ is that power, but the, the Latin mass
00:52:57.900
brings that power in a clearer way than, you know, the Novus Ordo just because it focuses
00:53:13.700
I mean, if you look at Pentecost, every language in the world is spoken.
00:53:19.560
It is that the, the words that are spoken with an exception of the blessing of the Eucharist,
00:53:25.380
right, uh, are, are, are different that they are, they are more channeled.
00:53:35.820
And it's not just the words, but the whole, um, I guess the structure, the best word I have
00:53:43.340
The Latin mass points to a supernatural truth that every mass points to, but it points more
00:53:52.300
And like I said, I'm no expert, I'm just learning, um, about the Latin mass because
00:53:57.900
it wasn't, it wasn't even really mentioned when I was ordained a priest in 1985, but as
00:54:04.500
a bishop, I came to know about it through younger priests that were well-versed in it.
00:54:10.980
And the way I've described the Christ is the message.
00:54:23.240
The Latin mass is a full blown symphony orchestra saying gloriously, the Lord is here.
00:54:31.300
The Novus Ordo is a simple kind of plinked out on the piano.
00:54:37.140
It's the same Christ in the same truth, but it's not a robust supernatural celebration of
00:54:48.440
And it can be, you know, I mean, people tend to look at, oh, you know, there was some sort
00:54:57.560
I mean, there were, there was a tendency in humanity with anything, familiarity breeds
00:55:05.340
And the Latin mass was so familiar that priests would, you know, see how quickly they could
00:55:11.520
get through it and, you know, how quickly they could go through all the motions and losing,
00:55:18.280
you know, losing the message, the supernatural message.
00:55:21.420
So to look back and say, oh, it was perfect in 1950, I was born in 1958, it wasn't.
00:55:31.660
There is a value there that is rooted in a respect for the supernatural that, frankly,
00:55:44.920
I would wager that if that's accurate, most of those people would not be appreciating or
00:55:56.740
Because what I've seen, especially young families, young people, searching for truth, and they
00:56:03.620
land at the Latin mass because it speaks to their yearning for the sacred, for the supernatural,
00:56:10.600
for something that the mass, it's not just another gathering.
00:56:14.020
It's not just another gathering of a few people, children of God in whatever setting.
00:56:24.460
And I think a lot of young people are looking for that difference in a life where, you know,
00:56:32.540
I mean, we've got all the technology, all the pleasure possibilities, everything.
00:56:36.700
And people are cutting through that and saying, I want something that brings me to the sacred
00:56:45.420
And that's what the natural, the Latin mass does for people.
00:56:58.920
I take my daughters on a father-daughter date every year.
00:57:06.820
And, you know, when they were very young, we lived near New York City.
00:57:10.900
And so I would take them and I would ask them, do you want me to wear a tie?
00:57:18.420
Well, when they were little kids, daddy in a tux and them in their, you know, special dress.
00:57:26.300
And I was sitting in a place in New York City and this couple came up and they were just in
00:57:38.460
She was just in a nice dress and they tapped us on the shoulder and they said, thank you.
00:57:48.860
They said, we fly out from Los Angeles once a year, just so we don't feel out of place
00:58:04.420
And, you know, that's a stupid little story compared to sacredness of there.
00:58:09.840
There has to be the sacred and it is what people are crying out for.
00:58:16.180
They're not crying out for another band on the altar.
00:58:20.220
They're crying out for a supernatural experience that connects them with something that is eternal.
00:58:29.380
And really, Glenn, I would share just quickly a little story just from last night.
00:58:33.080
I'm dressed exactly as I am and sort of the bishop's uniform, the clerical collar with
00:58:41.220
And a woman comes up and says, are you a Catholic priest?
00:58:46.380
And she said, it's the first time I've seen a Catholic priest in out in public.
00:58:52.780
She was, you know, had Catholic roots, but, you know, was definitely struggling there in
00:58:58.300
But, you know, it's sort of like the nuns and habits that has an impact.
00:59:05.260
And it says there's something special here, whether it's the greatest nun or the greatest
00:59:12.120
But it speaks to that that hunger for something sacred.
00:59:16.640
And I think we have just as a society, we've lost a lot of that.
00:59:20.280
I mean, people go to mass dressed like they're going to the mall or to anything else.
00:59:25.500
And I think that has diminished us because it all begins to speak to our sacredness.
00:59:33.920
And, I mean, like with your daughters, to let them know they're special and you love
00:59:44.620
Let me, let me take you to, gosh, where was it?
00:59:51.400
It was, oh, I want to take you to someplace that I don't, and I don't say this for sensationalism.
01:00:07.220
And, and my family on my wife's side, especially they're Italian and they are very Catholic.
01:00:20.080
And then I have some other Catholic friends who are also very deeply Catholic, who are very
01:00:28.160
concerned that these are the people who follow Fatima and things like that.
01:00:34.500
And they are saying to me, Glenn, this, this, this is, this is the time.
01:00:44.700
If that Pope goes to Russia, we, you know, you pack up your bags.
01:00:53.940
Well, there is a lot of that conversation out there in the Catholic world.
01:00:57.680
And I presume just in the world, is this the end of time and all of that?
01:01:11.080
And so to me that the answer is there through the ages.
01:01:14.140
I mean, and there've been, as I'm sure you've studied in history, there've been moments when
01:01:18.200
the millennials and the, you know, there've been people through the ages saying, this is
01:01:23.260
If you didn't say that, except for, you know, prophecy not being fulfilled.
01:01:27.800
If you didn't say that in the 1930s and 40s and you were in Germany, I don't know what you
01:01:33.240
were thinking because that looked like hell on earth, literally.
01:01:37.560
The best answer that I've heard, I heard a monk a couple of years ago, just at a conference,
01:01:42.500
someone asked the question, is this the end of the world?
01:01:45.720
And the monk's answer was, always remember, you know, Jesus answer, only the father knows
01:02:02.940
I mean, 65 years old, many people don't live beyond 65, even in, you know, modern times.
01:02:10.840
I think we have to ask ourselves, am I doing my best to live the truth?
01:02:19.960
Of course, even saying those words, there's a whole, you know, throng of humanity that seems
01:02:27.820
to want to be the dominant throng, there is no maker.
01:02:38.240
But a lot of people, I mean, my bias is that there are very few real atheists in the world.
01:02:45.820
I think there are a lot of agnostics, a lot of people who don't like what they hear of
01:02:52.100
But to me, it's antithetical to our humanity to not believe in God is not to believe in
01:03:02.160
And to me, that leaves us in a very empty world that I don't want any part of.
01:03:09.480
But I think that we have to keep reminding ourselves of what, you know, what is important, what is
01:03:21.340
valuable, and keep looking to that and trust that God is love.
01:03:35.220
And Jesus Christ, we believe, is love incarnate.
01:03:42.660
And I'm sure with, you know, you think of your love for your daughters, your wife, real love
01:03:53.500
Because even human love, with all its imperfections, it couldn't exist without the ultimate love.
01:04:02.700
Can I ask you, because I think you believe, you have a name for it.
01:04:20.720
I believe in possibility, not of evolution, as Darwin talked about it.
01:04:29.200
But I don't think, I don't think he, I don't know how he creates.
01:04:33.460
So whether he went, there's a man, you know, or he created some other way.
01:04:42.840
I will probably never live long enough to know.
01:04:52.760
Because do you hold that philosophy that that's, that could be the way God created, but we don't know.
01:04:58.780
That's what I understand that the Catholic Church teaches ultimately is that the point of revelation,
01:05:06.480
what God has revealed to us is he is the author of creation.
01:05:12.240
You know, and one of the basic tenets of the Catholic faith that I've always appreciated is
01:05:17.600
the Catholic faith says, God has revealed to us what we need to know for salvation.
01:05:29.740
I'm just, as a kid, I've always loved science and technology and all of that.
01:05:34.440
But I think there's a real push to get it all figured out, us.
01:05:41.400
You know, you always end up with the greatest scientific discoveries.
01:05:51.700
We know lots of the mechanisms, but there's a lot we don't know.
01:05:56.000
And I think that that just, with the questions you're raising, we don't know how God did it,
01:06:08.620
And it's not just some happenstance of, you know, these molecules having to fall together.
01:06:17.700
I mean, it's like, oh, it just all, you know, fell into place.
01:06:22.700
But I think that you have to, I mean, I think the simple answer is, however God did it, he
01:06:38.500
That's what makes humanity special, significant.
01:06:48.220
And many do, at least in one degree or another.
01:06:51.980
But we, by our very nature, are called to return to the Father.
01:06:59.140
And I think that's a lot of what's broken in the world is there's so many blocks to that
01:07:06.320
It's like, we're created in the image and likeness of God.
01:07:13.200
If there is no God, then what is our image and likeness?
01:07:18.780
Even if you don't fully go down the path, like I have a problem with, if they were just called
01:07:28.040
Moe's Ten Tips for Life, the Ten Commandments wouldn't be controversial.
01:07:33.960
I am the God that freed you from slavery, okay?
01:07:41.640
Remember that and don't put any other God before me.
01:07:58.760
I think that idolatry is really, you could say that's the problem.
01:08:06.300
We are an idolatrous generation in many different ways, within the church, without the church.
01:08:13.620
I mean, all kinds of ways that idolatry, because putting something before God, whether it's position
01:08:21.960
or wealth or power or whatever, it can be very subtle or it can be very flagrant, but I think
01:08:28.840
that's, you know, again, looking to the Ten Commandments, there's tremendous challenge
01:08:47.960
Just to repeat, notoriously election denying, QAnon spreading, Francis bashing, vaccine
01:08:59.480
Division sowing, fire breathing, darling of the right wing, Twitter agendas far beyond.
01:09:04.360
He appeared at Stop the Steal Magna, a MAGA event.
01:09:08.000
I cannot allow you to leave without adding another one of those to your list.
01:09:20.000
And in the Father, and in the Son, and in the Holy Spirit, amen.
01:09:25.180
Almighty God, we thank you for the truth that you have revealed to us, ultimately through
01:09:32.220
We thank you for the saints that have witnessed to this truth through the ages, for the woman
01:09:37.380
chosen to be the mother of your Son, the Immaculate Virgin Mary, who points us always
01:09:43.080
to her Son, and simply says, do what He tells you.
01:09:46.560
We give thanks for all of these blessings, Lord, in the midst of challenge and confusion
01:09:53.460
Help us to see the light of your Son, and may He guide us always as your children.
01:09:59.440
And we ask this in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
01:10:03.380
Now you can add that you prayed with that Hitler-loving zealot, Glenn Beck.
01:10:11.360
Just a reminder, I'd love you to rate and subscribe to the podcast and pass this on to a friend