The Glenn Beck Program - Ep 209 ｜ 'I Will NOT Submit to an Evil Government'： Juggling Politics & Faith ｜ Josh McPherson

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00:00:30.000 And now, a Blaze Media Podcast.

00:00:34.160 Here's a question.

00:00:35.400 Should pastors talk politics?

00:00:38.180 Should they share their opinions on topics like abortion, gender identity, or even the southern border and the economy?

00:00:45.000 Are there political topics that should be off-limits in church?

00:00:49.540 Well, our next guest is the pastor the New York Times has been warning you about.

00:00:55.460 He loves God.

00:00:56.980 He loves his country, which means he's got to be some sort of Christian nationalist extremist.

00:01:03.060 I think you're going to find this man fascinating.

00:01:08.220 And we talk about Christian nationalism and what it really is.

00:01:13.200 This is one of my favorite conversations we've had so far this year.

00:01:19.040 And I know it's only February, but while America has become squeamish about bringing God into the public square,

00:01:25.760 our next guest is telling God, come on in.

00:01:29.760 The question is, do we still have a place for God in America?

00:01:34.440 Or better question, does God still have a place for us?

00:01:38.820 Welcome the lead pastor of Grace City Church.

00:01:42.640 Somebody I can't wait for you to meet, Pastor Josh McPherson.

00:01:47.640 Before we get to our guest first, let me tell you about Preborn.

00:01:50.820 Preborn network of clinics saw over 58,000 babies saved.

00:01:54.960 Thanks to you who made this possible to celebrate the precious babies and the life and the lives of the moms.

00:02:02.980 Everybody's like, oh, they're sinners.

00:02:04.760 What?

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00:02:06.360 They're moms.

00:02:08.020 And that's the thing I like about Preborn.

00:02:09.980 They not only saved the baby, they saved the mom, too, and take care of her for weeks after.

00:02:14.940 Let me tell you about one of the people that went to get an ultrasound and was planning on getting an abortion.

00:02:22.120 Charlotte is her name.

00:02:22.940 She was pregnant.

00:02:23.640 She was seven weeks along.

00:02:24.740 In the back of her mind, she thought abortion is the best solution.

00:02:27.780 But then she went to Preborn and she saw her beautiful baby on an ultrasound and heard the heartbeat.

00:02:33.400 And she chose life.

00:02:35.820 She'd like to thank you for making that possible.

00:02:38.980 If you would like to help moms who are in crisis and babies to live, don't think there's a better way to do it than going to preborn.com slash Glenn

00:02:51.680 and donate 28 bucks buys one of those ultrasounds.

00:02:54.900 You can hit pound 250 and say the keyword baby.

00:02:59.380 And you can also donate there or just go online again to preborn.com slash Glenn.

00:03:04.500 Josh, welcome.

00:03:19.380 How are you?

00:03:20.140 Thanks for coming in.

00:03:21.180 I know you traveled a long way to be here.

00:03:23.100 It's an honor to be here.

00:03:24.280 Yeah, good.

00:03:24.820 I saw a clip of yours, maybe over the holidays, and kind of went down a rabbit hole.

00:03:34.860 And you are very outspoken and shoot from the hip, call them as you see it.

00:03:45.140 And I think your excoriation needs to be heard by the church and us Christians who are kind of fat and lazy.

00:03:57.600 Let's go.

00:03:58.620 So what is your main message to people?

00:04:04.860 You're just a regular pastor, right?

00:04:09.840 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:04:10.200 I'm still trying to figure out what I'm even doing here.

00:04:12.220 Really?

00:04:13.860 I scrolled through the list of some of your podcast guests, and I was looking for backwater, blue-collar, hick-from-the-stick pastors, and I didn't see any.

00:04:24.500 So I feel like one is not like the other here.

00:04:28.040 Well, but if that's the way you describe yourself, then you would be a first.

00:04:31.120 But I think this podcast, we try to look for thinkers.

00:04:37.900 We look for people who are saying things that should be said, need to be said, even if I don't like them.

00:04:44.080 Yeah.

00:04:44.220 But, you know, the country is in real trouble, and it's, in my opinion, it's not a political problem.

00:04:54.260 It's a deep, deep spiritual problem.

00:04:57.180 Amen.

00:04:57.640 Yeah, no, I agree.

00:04:58.200 When I think about the state of the kingdom of God in the church, there's two ways I think about it.

00:05:05.540 The first is, on one hand, and theologians would break it up with different categories.

00:05:09.620 There's the visible church and the invisible church.

00:05:11.700 And so the invisible church, the true church, the people filled with the spirit of God, they're doing great.

00:05:16.640 They're kicking tail and taking names.

00:05:17.980 They're loving people, caring for people, being generous and kind and patient and sweet.

00:05:22.420 The kingdom of God is advancing steadily forward, which is exciting.

00:05:25.400 So it's not a question of whether or not our team is going to win.

00:05:28.180 It's a question of if we're going to be on the team when they do.

00:05:31.460 And so.

00:05:32.380 What do you mean by that?

00:05:34.800 Jesus Christ is King of Kings and Lord of Lords.

00:05:37.580 And he has a plan, and he's advancing all of history toward his intended purposes.

00:05:43.340 He will get his glory.

00:05:44.860 His plan will come about.

00:05:46.180 And so it's.

00:05:46.660 Every knee shall bow, and everyone will know.

00:05:49.840 Absolutely.

00:05:50.520 Absolutely.

00:05:51.020 So it's not as if we're in a game wondering how the outcome is.

00:05:53.520 How is this going to go?

00:05:54.300 And so in one sense, I have.

00:05:57.780 I'm a man full of hope because we know the end of the outcome of the end of the game.

00:06:03.320 And then there's there's the other side where we look at the visible church and there is reason for concern and cause for concern.

00:06:10.440 And so you ask me, what's my message or why do I shoot from the hip?

00:06:14.340 I think about it when I come to cultural issues, political issues, how to address them as a man of God.

00:06:21.780 I never wake up thinking, what will people think if I say this?

00:06:25.040 Right.

00:06:25.240 I never wake up thinking, how will this play with my audience or my church?

00:06:30.440 I never wake up thinking, will this build my brand or put my brand at risk?

00:06:33.600 Like, I wake up worried and concerned about one thing, and that's offending the holy God.

00:06:38.620 So I don't wake up thinking about, are people going to like what I say?

00:06:41.340 I wake up worried about losing the anointing of God.

00:06:43.640 Because if I have the anointing and favor and blessing of God and no one's favor, I'll be fine.

00:06:49.260 But if I.

00:06:49.960 And that doesn't mean successful.

00:06:52.040 No, not at all.

00:06:53.080 Successful in his work, but not necessarily worldly success.

00:06:56.620 Yeah, my goal isn't to be successful.

00:06:58.460 My goal is to be faithful.

00:07:00.460 And so I was even reading this morning Isaiah, and you have this incredible picture where Isaiah

00:07:05.440 is talking about, what are those who call evil good and good evil?

00:07:09.220 What are those who take what is sweet and make it bitter?

00:07:11.880 And he's talking about a country and a nation and a culture that's turned everything upside

00:07:16.240 down.

00:07:16.760 So take marriage.

00:07:17.560 Marriage, God designed as sweet.

00:07:20.520 And now we have this contorted counterfeit perversion redefinition of it.

00:07:25.240 Now we've taken what's sweet and we've made it bitter.

00:07:27.520 And God says, woe to the nation that does that.

00:07:29.940 And then later in the text, God opens up a vision of himself to Isaiah.

00:07:35.440 And he says, I saw the angels.

00:07:37.400 Holy, holy, holy is the Lord God Almighty who was and is to come.

00:07:41.180 And in the presence of God and with a vision of Jesus seated on the throne, Isaiah responds,

00:07:49.580 woe is me.

00:07:51.140 I am undone for I'm a man of unclean lips and I live among a people of unclean lips.

00:07:58.300 And he realizes in the light of a vision of Christ, he is totally exposed as the sinner

00:08:05.000 and fraud that he is.

00:08:05.940 And so I think of a pastor as living in light of that vision.

00:08:08.640 The first message isn't, hey, all you idiots, get your act together.

00:08:12.600 The message is, woe to all of us.

00:08:15.560 Repent.

00:08:16.480 Believe.

00:08:16.960 Follow Jesus.

00:08:17.540 So later in the text, you know, the angel touches his lips with the hot coal and he's

00:08:22.200 purified in a sense symbolically.

00:08:23.980 And the Lord says, who am I going to send?

00:08:27.660 And he says, here I am, send me.

00:08:28.980 And so when I get up in the pulpit every Sunday, in a sense, it's a response to what I see in

00:08:35.520 me in terms of brokenness and sin and the need for repentance and faith in Christ and

00:08:40.220 the need for rescue and redemption.

00:08:41.760 And it's need I see in the culture.

00:08:43.260 And so it might look like I shoot from the hip, but it's intentionally prayed over, studied,

00:08:49.560 prepared.

00:08:49.900 And my concern with today, and I don't want to be a critic of the church because it's

00:08:56.280 Jesus' bride and so be careful, but my concern with the American church is that pastors are

00:09:02.140 being too calculated and they're being too measured and they're being too nuanced.

00:09:09.220 And we are not in such a days that need, we don't need nuance.

00:09:14.760 We need the gospel set forth plainly.

00:09:17.520 We've been nuanced to death.

00:09:19.500 Yeah, yeah.

00:09:20.860 I want to get a t-shirt during COVID, like, stop being reasonable.

00:09:24.780 Stop being measured.

00:09:26.220 They're ruining people's lives.

00:09:27.920 They're shutting down businesses.

00:09:29.020 They're destroying children's education.

00:09:31.260 They're destroying mental health.

00:09:32.800 I mean, all these implications of just radical, crazy tyranny.

00:09:37.300 Tell me what you did as a pastor during COVID.

00:09:44.680 We're going to go there?

00:09:45.720 Yeah, we're going to go there.

00:09:46.840 Oh, we got more than this to go to.

00:09:50.040 We sued the governor of our state.

00:09:52.780 That's the punchline, I guess.

00:09:55.760 March 15th, like everybody else, the world shut down and we went from gathering in a rented

00:10:01.820 facility to online.

00:10:03.260 And I looked into the camera and I told my church in these days, and I quoted Romans 13, the most

00:10:09.480 explicit instructions that Paul gives us and how to relate to the government.

00:10:13.860 I said, it's our job to believe the best, to honor the king, and to make his job a blessing

00:10:19.940 to rule us and lead us in times of crisis.

00:10:22.960 And then about six weeks later, we sued the governor, and I was working from the same premise

00:10:29.180 that Paul gives us in Romans 13.

00:10:30.980 And what led up to it was, at least in my state, and I talk with pastors all over the country,

00:10:36.960 and it's super weird because pastors in the South, more red states, they're like, COVID,

00:10:42.620 COVID, COVID.

00:10:43.400 Oh yeah, it was like two or three weeks.

00:10:44.580 I was like, we were in a state of emergency.

00:10:47.260 A governor declared emergency.

00:10:48.660 Because you're in Washington State.

00:10:49.640 In Washington State, for over two years.

00:10:52.820 It was a gross misdemeanor to leave my house for months for anything that was deemed by

00:10:58.080 the governor as essential.

00:10:59.520 Wow.

00:11:00.560 And of course, religion is not essential.

00:11:02.800 Absolutely not essential.

00:11:04.860 And I think probably the turning point for me was, you're trying to figure it out.

00:11:09.840 You're like, this is crazy.

00:11:11.220 They're telling us two weeks to flatten the curve, and it's been six weeks.

00:11:14.780 This is nuts.

00:11:16.060 The hospital's going to be overrun.

00:11:17.280 They're not overrun.

00:11:18.060 I have people I trust in my church, at hospitals, saying, you know the whole thing, we're testing

00:11:24.980 for positive cases, and if we test under 80 positive cases a week, they'll let us out

00:11:29.140 of phase one, which is total lockdown.

00:11:31.040 He said, we had a guy come in last week with COVID.

00:11:33.440 I test him five times a day, hoping to get a negative test, and the second I do, we can

00:11:39.380 let him go.

00:11:40.220 My manager came to me and said, you're miscounting.

00:11:43.300 And I said, what do you mean?

00:11:44.300 And he goes, you only have one positive case here.

00:11:48.540 And he says, that's because there's one person.

00:11:50.760 How many times have you tested him?

00:11:51.960 He's like, 36 times in the last four days.

00:11:55.140 That's 36 positive cases.

00:11:56.780 Oh my gosh.

00:11:57.940 And so, these are men I trust.

00:11:59.500 These are men I, I had a dear friend who runs an ambulance business, and a dear, dear

00:12:03.980 trusted friend.

00:12:04.480 His father was in politics all his life.

00:12:07.340 He said, so we brought a guy in today from a head-on car collision, 36, and they charted

00:12:12.580 as a COVID death.

00:12:14.600 Because we were told from a press conference in the White House that they're going to chart

00:12:17.860 died from COVID and with COVID as the same thing.

00:12:21.660 And so, that's when we started realizing, like, this is not maybe what it seems to be.

00:12:26.580 This maybe isn't like the black plague, like we're being told.

00:12:29.180 And so, of course, we're not meeting still.

00:12:31.040 And Thomas Sowell put it this way, he said, liberals look at the problem solution.

00:12:38.100 Conservatives look at problem trade-offs.

00:12:40.760 And so, we were looking at it from a, like, okay, yes, this is potentially dangerous, but

00:12:43.940 let's look at the economical ramifications, the mental ramifications, the emotional ramifications,

00:12:48.820 the educational ramifications, the spiritual ramifications.

00:12:51.060 Let's look at all these things, and it was like-

00:12:53.880 Which is worse.

00:12:54.700 Which is worse.

00:12:55.340 And it was like an elephant being afraid of a cat.

00:12:57.860 And so, to avoid the cat, he jumped off a cliff and died.

00:13:01.040 And so, we began looking at what we could do as a church to help our community.

00:13:06.640 So, I was sitting at my dining room table with my family, and just, we're kind of in it, right?

00:13:12.300 And because you're trying to figure out, because every week, press conference from the governor.

00:13:17.020 And it's just scare tactics and fear-mongering and shelter, and like, shelter in place is the

00:13:22.120 language that's being used.

00:13:23.560 And we're building a church, a building in the process.

00:13:26.720 Our construction project gets shut down.

00:13:28.660 15 million dollar construction project dead in the water.

00:13:31.040 And across the way, is a government construction project firing on all fours.

00:13:36.080 And we're like, well, that's not cool.

00:13:38.920 And then it's like, all local small businesses closed down.

00:13:41.860 But Costco's having record quarters.

00:13:44.600 Amazon, because all the brick and mortar stores are closed down, because Jet Basis is like,

00:13:48.580 this is dangerous, skyrocketing.

00:13:51.240 I've built almost 100,000 square feet of commercial square footage in the last five years.

00:13:54.880 We've had to change our roof plan three times, because Amazon is building 20 million square

00:13:59.780 feet of new, what do you call them, you know, holding centers for their delivery centers in

00:14:05.460 the last three years.

00:14:06.680 It's crazy.

00:14:07.380 So we're sitting in our dining room table, and we're sitting in our dining room table,

00:14:14.060 and with my kids, four children, who are remarkable.

00:14:18.640 They're discerning that the Spirit of God fills them all.

00:14:22.460 And they started asking me questions.

00:14:25.720 And it wasn't coordinated, I don't think.

00:14:29.260 The first question was, hey, Dad, is it true, and they would name someone in our church,

00:14:37.140 that they can't open their small business?

00:14:39.920 I said, yeah.

00:14:41.660 Is it true, and then they'd name someone else, so-and-so, can't go to work and do their job?

00:14:46.420 Yeah.

00:14:47.760 Is it true that they're still having to pay taxes, even though they can't go to work?

00:14:52.280 I said, yeah.

00:14:54.220 And then my daughter, who was born with spina bifida, she's in a wheelchair.

00:14:58.780 She's very passionate about this issue of life, because in utero, we had a genetic counselor

00:15:04.960 try to convince us that my daughter would be a burden on the world, rather than a blessing,

00:15:09.560 and did everything they could to talk us into aborting her.

00:15:12.400 And that's the only time I've heard my wife cuss.

00:15:17.520 And so my daughter knows that she's not a burden, she's a blessing.

00:15:23.360 And she said, is it true, Dad, that even though these local businesses are closed,

00:15:28.120 and kids can't go to school, that the abortion clinics are still open?

00:15:31.760 I said, yeah.

00:15:32.520 Is it true that the alcohol stores are still open?

00:15:35.300 I said, yeah.

00:15:36.180 Is it true that the casinos are still open?

00:15:39.160 I said, yes.

00:15:40.640 And then just kind of this sweet, precious moment you probably have with your kids at times,

00:15:44.520 they just kind of looked around, and they looked at me, and they said,

00:15:47.160 I didn't mean to get emotional, I didn't think we were going to talk about this.

00:15:52.140 They said, well, what are we going to do about it?

00:15:59.160 And I didn't have an answer.

00:16:04.200 And I said, ask me tomorrow, and I'll have one.

00:16:09.120 And so I began calling elected officials, mayors, sheriffs, state representatives,

00:16:15.300 county commissioners, going like, hey, what's going on, what do we do?

00:16:20.460 And to the man, to the woman, Olympia's closed, no one's responding, nobody's talking,

00:16:25.660 and they've shut it down, because the danger that we saw was they centralized all of the

00:16:29.540 authority, Glenn, in Olympia.

00:16:31.440 Yep.

00:16:31.920 They decimated local government.

00:16:34.600 Yes.

00:16:34.860 Which is what I think America's built on.

00:16:36.260 The genius of America.

00:16:37.180 Oh, yeah.

00:16:37.900 Is local government.

00:16:38.960 It is bottom up.

00:16:39.900 That's right.

00:16:40.240 And so when bureaucracy grows, everyone loses, because bureaucracy is nameless, faceless

00:16:46.860 powers behind the curtains that you can't get at with a vote, telling you how to live,

00:16:51.320 apart from being held accountable to the standards they make everyone else live down to.

00:16:56.320 And so when you have someone in power making rules for everyone else they don't have to

00:16:59.020 live by, recipe for disaster.

00:17:01.800 And so we're like, why are they telling us what to do in Chelan County when they're 400

00:17:06.840 miles away and have no clue what's going on here?

00:17:09.220 And so to the man, everyone told me, we think the only way to get out of this is to sue the

00:17:14.940 governor for illegally putting us into an emergency that only he determines when we get out of.

00:17:20.460 So no legislature can meet like nothing.

00:17:23.660 Meanwhile, they're shoving through crazy legislation regarding law enforcement, regarding public

00:17:27.840 schools.

00:17:28.360 I mean, like it was a political boon for Governor Inslee in his ilk.

00:17:34.720 And so I said, what should we do?

00:17:37.260 And they said, well, there's two options.

00:17:38.460 You can sue him for religious freedom or you can sue him as a citizen.

00:17:41.620 So our elders talked and prayed and we thought if we play the religious freedom card so we

00:17:46.160 can gather and meet, that would be a win.

00:17:48.460 And that is good.

00:17:49.280 But it won't be everybody else.

00:17:51.000 But it won't help everyone else.

00:17:52.060 And here's the thing.

00:17:53.200 Historically, what people understand is that the church has always been the best of friends

00:18:00.660 for the benevolent government and the worst of enemies to the tyrannical dictator.

00:18:07.020 And that's by design and by jurisdictions.

00:18:09.240 And so I explained to our church, the jurisdictional lanes of God's design, the jurisdiction of the

00:18:14.560 individual is I have the gift from God of making autonomous decisions that have real

00:18:21.040 consequences in time and space history.

00:18:23.220 And that's the honor that God gives you and I as free will of beings.

00:18:30.300 Then there's a jurisdiction of the family and they have both responsibility and authority

00:18:34.140 as the cornerstone of society with the marriage of one man and one woman at the center of it.

00:18:40.860 They have the responsibility and authority to raise, shelter, protect, raise, and educate

00:18:46.720 their children.

00:18:47.320 And then you have the jurisdiction of the church, which is responsible for preaching the gospel

00:18:52.080 and faithfully ministering the sacraments.

00:18:54.220 And then you have the jurisdiction of the government.

00:18:56.180 And God has designed all those jurisdictions with certain roles and responsibilities and

00:18:59.780 authorities to exercise and walk those things out.

00:19:02.280 And when everyone runs in their lane, it's beautiful.

00:19:04.860 The problem is we start mixing lanes and it's a traffic jam and it's a cataclysmic car wreck.

00:19:10.460 And so what I explained to our church was individuals are in sports cars, families are in SUVs and

00:19:17.800 minivans, churches are in party buses, and the government is in a massive 18-wheeler driven

00:19:22.920 by one or two bureaucrats.

00:19:24.700 And when the government begins to swerve out of their lane, it's the responsibility from

00:19:28.380 the word of God, inconstitutionally, I believe, for the church to stay in their lane and honk

00:19:33.280 their horn.

00:19:33.880 Say, hey, you stay over there.

00:19:36.340 And when they do that, they're doing that as a friend of the government, not as a scofflaw.

00:19:39.900 But as a friend of the rule of law, hey, we're grateful for the constitution and you realize

00:19:46.000 that you're in your position of authority as one who's been put there by us and by God.

00:19:52.120 So you're in authority as one under authority and the rules of the game from the word of

00:19:57.660 God and our constitution stay, you stay over there.

00:20:00.760 And every once in a while, the church might need to rub some paint.

00:20:03.820 And so what I told our church was, if we hit the brakes and back off so as to not rub any

00:20:08.840 paint, then there's nothing standing between the government and decimating the family and

00:20:14.000 individual.

00:20:14.980 And that's what we saw churches doing over and over and over again.

00:20:19.180 We're going to misinterpret Romans 13 as to honor God, we should do whatever the government

00:20:23.580 says, even if it's devastating to ourselves, our churches and our communities, because

00:20:27.360 that's what it means to honor God.

00:20:29.040 And we had a very different conviction and relationship to that.

00:20:31.400 And so the path we chose was to rather go at it from a point of citizens, because if

00:20:36.000 we only had the right to meet as a church, that would be a step in the right direction.

00:20:39.280 But no one in my church can go back to their work.

00:20:42.340 And so we led, our elders and I, we led a team of 46, we called them the Noble 46 plaintiffs.

00:20:48.680 And here's the crazy thing, Glenn, I talked to a constitutional attorney, Joel Ard, he's a

00:20:53.400 wonderful Catholic brother and super sharp, super intelligent.

00:20:57.340 He gave me a download education on the constitution and, um, and, and, uh, I hung up with him and

00:21:03.980 I said, I think we need to sue the governor.

00:21:05.580 We prayed about it, unified elder team.

00:21:08.160 I sent out four texts.

00:21:09.800 I said, we're thinking about suing the governor on civil, on civil grounds to break this, um,

00:21:14.980 this hold of emergency powers to open our County, to go back to work.

00:21:18.440 And I said, if you're interested, come to my house.

00:21:20.140 And two hours later, there were 46 strangers I'd never met on my back porch, breaking the law,

00:21:25.980 eating apple pie.

00:21:29.120 These are the people that America, that makes America great.

00:21:31.360 I'm not kidding.

00:21:32.040 Like the unheard of unseen unsung heroes who get up every day and run their small business,

00:21:37.580 provide a product for a price.

00:21:40.260 Um, so it was fun because all of these like legendary local, you know, um, like the windmill,

00:21:46.260 you know, legendary steakhouse had a thousand steaks there.

00:21:49.100 Never met the owner.

00:21:49.900 He was on my back porch and it was just like, you own the windmill.

00:21:53.660 I love your steaks.

00:21:54.800 Thanks so much.

00:21:55.900 So it was just a super fun Americana moment, you know, and it's kind of like this 1776,

00:22:00.400 like, well, we're breaking the law.

00:22:01.800 Isn't this awesome?

00:22:02.560 You know, it's crazy.

00:22:03.580 Oh, it was wild.

00:22:04.440 And, um, and that's what, what bothered me so deeply.

00:22:07.560 I think Glenn is like shame on the government, shame on bureaucratic officials drunk on their

00:22:12.680 own power, um, that they would turn these law loving and law abiding citizens into criminals.

00:22:19.640 And so I said, Hey, glad to see you.

00:22:22.760 I have no clue what we're doing.

00:22:24.040 What if we see the governor?

00:22:25.020 And they're like, tell us more.

00:22:26.440 And so I walked it through.

00:22:27.520 I said, look, we're not scoff laws.

00:22:29.060 So bro, while we're having this conversation, it's illegal to me as a church.

00:22:33.400 And at the same time, Black Lives Matter is marching in the streets of Seattle, unmasked,

00:22:40.820 shouting, screaming, and our governor is saying, there's patriots.

00:22:45.740 Look how they exercise in their first amendment rights, but you can't sing in church.

00:22:49.200 It was quote unquote illegal to sing in church in my state for months.

00:22:55.440 That's wild.

00:22:56.220 But you could go to Seahawks game and cheer on Russell Wilson.

00:23:01.180 So, uh, we're meeting on the back porch here and I go, look, um, we're not scoff laws here.

00:23:05.860 We're going to play the game by the rules, which is always the conservative's weakness,

00:23:09.580 right?

00:23:10.500 Yeah.

00:23:10.980 Cause we play by the rules and, and, and they don't sometimes they don't.

00:23:15.040 So, so our rule says we go through the court system.

00:23:18.700 They just give themselves power, declare executive powers, and then just make crap up.

00:23:23.040 And, um, and it was destabilizing our, our community.

00:23:26.780 And this is what I learned from Joel Art is the reason third world countries don't have

00:23:29.960 growing small businesses is because there's no consistency of rule of law.

00:23:34.020 Exactly right.

00:23:34.800 So I'm not going to go buy property.

00:23:36.660 Right.

00:23:37.180 In, in, you know, in a place where I don't know the law of the jungle who's in power next

00:23:42.240 week.

00:23:42.660 I can't, I'm not going to apply for a business license.

00:23:46.440 If I build my business and I'm not the next week, somebody can come in and say, you know

00:23:50.440 what?

00:23:50.560 Your business license is no good because of this.

00:23:52.580 That's right.

00:23:53.260 That's right.

00:23:54.040 So we had over a thousand LNI officers added to the payroll in three months and their sole

00:23:59.640 job as a weaponized arm of the tyrannical government branch was to bully law abiding citizens into

00:24:05.960 obeying these crazy, like, like every press conference on a Friday, a new edict was passed

00:24:10.840 down.

00:24:11.800 You can't do this.

00:24:12.640 You can't do that.

00:24:13.420 It was impossible to keep up with every law.

00:24:15.620 I think I'm going to miss this number, but like, I want to say like two or 3000 edicts

00:24:21.540 from on high, from the, from the, from the governor's office of things you couldn't, couldn't do.

00:24:24.760 And you'd be considered a lawbreaker if you didn't.

00:24:28.140 So all of a sudden now we're cheapening the rule of law because law enforcement is going,

00:24:32.080 I'm not enforcing that.

00:24:33.060 Yeah.

00:24:33.500 I didn't sign up and put the badge on to shut down small businesses.

00:24:36.480 Like this is crazy.

00:24:37.300 So it's just causing division and chaos.

00:24:41.920 Interrupt me whenever you want.

00:24:42.980 I can keep going.

00:24:43.520 No, just tell me, just tell me the, the end story.

00:24:46.440 What happened?

00:24:47.020 Did you, so we, we, we got together, we put the lawsuit together.

00:24:49.360 The basis of the lawsuit that I love so much wasn't that we, we weren't, we weren't suing

00:24:53.100 on the basis of COVID.

00:24:54.000 The COVID isn't real.

00:24:54.980 It's like, no, it let's.

00:24:56.800 You're going for the constitution.

00:24:58.120 It's like, it's like, we're, we're fighting for the right of locally elected officials to do

00:25:04.340 their job because their eyes are on the ground.

00:25:07.420 They see what's going on.

00:25:08.420 And if they can make decisions that, that causes the flourishing of the city, we'll support

00:25:12.720 them.

00:25:12.980 And if they make poor decisions, we'll, we'll act as a representative democracy does and

00:25:18.940 we'll vote them out.

00:25:19.820 But we still have a say when you take that away and centralize it in Olympia, we have no

00:25:23.960 say.

00:25:25.120 So the lawsuit was to break the emergency powers and to ask permission from the government

00:25:29.640 or to just be allowed to live our lives.

00:25:33.100 Yeah.

00:25:33.220 And so, so we got right to the one, the one yard line and the judge essentially told us

00:25:41.160 if you can get confirmation from your local health district that they can handle this

00:25:45.140 pandemic, I'll rule in your favor.

00:25:47.220 It was basically kind of the legal code words that she was giving us.

00:25:50.460 And I got, you got a picture of the optics.

00:25:52.760 We have a volunteer pro bono attorney that's driving three hours to be at every hearing.

00:25:59.260 They keep changing the dates of the hearing, the location of the hearing.

00:26:02.380 And they have four of their crack attorneys.

00:26:04.900 So Inslee has the largest attorney general office in the country for attorneys that we're

00:26:10.960 paying the salaries of with our taxes that we're asking for permission to go back to

00:26:16.160 work so we can pay taxes to fund their jobs.

00:26:19.540 And they're fighting against us.

00:26:21.560 And the judge who's an Inslee appointee has COVID.

00:26:26.360 Those are the optics.

00:26:27.520 And it was this kind of Dave and Goliath moment.

00:26:29.000 So the day before the final trial, she said, you know, Hey, if, if, if, if you have a letter

00:26:35.360 signed by the health, local health district guy, we're good to go.

00:26:39.580 And he'd been with us the whole time.

00:26:41.680 Now he's not answering phone calls, emails.

00:26:44.080 Long story short, he totally weaseled.

00:26:45.920 We, we, we, we found that he'd been talking with the, the, the attorneys from Washington

00:26:51.460 and kind of had a sweetheart deal going.

00:26:53.140 So he weaseled and, and, and, and wouldn't give us the authority.

00:26:56.120 He was quoted in the paper the day before saying, there is no pandemic.

00:26:59.240 There is no threat in our Valley.

00:27:00.740 We can handle it.

00:27:02.400 And the next day he won't talk to us.

00:27:04.120 We go back to the judge, say, he said this in the paper.

00:27:06.760 She's like, that's not admissible in court.

00:27:08.200 And I'm like, we don't know what to do.

00:27:09.340 And she's like, I'm sorry.

00:27:10.140 And so she ruled against us and, um, and that was it.

00:27:13.920 This is a, this is a real, a real problem.

00:27:17.780 Uh, people are offered all kinds.

00:27:22.200 I mean, the one thing I've, I've, I've learned when your back is up against the wall and you're

00:27:29.960 being, uh, you're standing up for what is right.

00:27:33.860 Yeah.

00:27:34.680 Everything you've ever wanted will be offered to you.

00:27:38.500 Yeah.

00:27:38.860 Uh, and it is so seductive and well, it's just me.

00:27:43.380 I don't, I mean, it's not gonna, and we're so many people are falling for, um, the seductive

00:27:51.680 outs and nobody is thinking about the constitution.

00:27:55.980 No one's thinking about like, like you said, um, their responsibility as a citizen of another

00:28:05.060 kingdom.

00:28:05.540 Yeah.

00:28:05.920 Um, and we just flush them down and I don't see our churches.

00:28:10.140 They, they failed in COVID and I still, my church, I go and I'm like, is anyone talking

00:28:17.340 about, let's say the border?

00:28:21.140 I don't want somebody to tell me politically what to do, but I want to know what God would,

00:28:26.160 God would say something about the border, about COVID, uh, about, uh, spending so much

00:28:33.900 money about our treatment of, of, uh, illegal immigrants.

00:28:38.600 No one will put that it, they'll tell me what it meant in the first century.

00:28:43.180 Yeah.

00:28:43.740 Well, that's good.

00:28:44.600 I want to know that.

00:28:45.820 Yeah.

00:28:46.360 But does that apply to today?

00:28:49.100 Yeah.

00:28:49.780 It's, it's like, uh, the difference between, uh, applied science and just theoretical science.

00:28:56.620 I don't care about the theory.

00:28:58.420 Yeah.

00:28:59.060 Show me how to apply this.

00:29:00.980 Yeah.

00:29:01.140 How can it make my life better?

00:29:02.760 Yep.

00:29:03.420 Yep.

00:29:03.960 And one of the things that attracted me was you, you were, I mean, you went on, you

00:29:10.020 went on quite a rant, quite a rant.

00:29:12.500 Um, and you were talking about the church needs to talk about, I don't, you might've even

00:29:19.860 said politics, but you defined it differently.

00:29:22.380 You know, it's, it's not politics, but in today's world, everything is politics.

00:29:28.220 Yeah.

00:29:28.520 The, the, the pastor has to think in terms of not left or right, but up and down.

00:29:32.980 Right.

00:29:33.360 And so it's not left.

00:29:34.240 It's not right.

00:29:34.720 It's kingdom of light, kingdom of dark.

00:29:36.580 So I never think in terms of, is this going to play to the left, to the right?

00:29:39.600 I think in terms of, will this please God or displease him?

00:29:42.360 And, um, there, there's an interesting reality.

00:29:45.160 Um, Aaron Wren wrote an article a year or two ago and he, he, he kind of framed the current

00:29:51.500 evangelical church in kind of three epochs of time.

00:29:54.540 Now I'm all cards on the table.

00:29:56.560 I would consider myself an evangelical Christian if there even is such a thing anymore.

00:29:59.920 I think in large part, it might be argued evangelicalism is dead and over because it's been co-opted

00:30:04.120 kind of mind virus woke craziness or like angry mega, like burn everything down.

00:30:09.040 Um, but let's say that there is an evangelical Christian left.

00:30:11.820 I would define that as throw out some big words.

00:30:14.520 Like I believe in the verbal plenary inspiration of scripture, verbal, every word plenary authoritative

00:30:20.000 inspired by God.

00:30:20.900 The word is, is the inspired word of God and authoritative for all of life.

00:30:24.760 And there's a key there all of life.

00:30:26.660 Right.

00:30:27.460 Um, I believe in the penal substitutionary atoning work of Jesus penal.

00:30:31.680 And that was, he was punished substitutionary in my place atonement to win something for me.

00:30:37.200 I couldn't do myself the salvation from God's wrath, right?

00:30:40.120 I believe that heaven is real hot and long.

00:30:43.360 I believe that heaven is available and glorious and open to all who would accept the invitation

00:30:50.140 of Jesus as their personal savior.

00:30:52.340 Um, I believe that salvation is by grace alone, through faith alone in Christ alone,

00:30:56.000 according to the word of God for the glory of God alone.

00:30:58.220 And I believe Jesus is coming back to judge the quick and the dead and usher in for once

00:31:02.460 and all the kingdom he inaugurated when he came in his first coming.

00:31:05.400 So those are my cards.

00:31:06.880 That's, that's my lane.

00:31:07.720 That's my team.

00:31:08.840 And having said that then the three epochs of time, Aaron Wren identified his article

00:31:14.280 was positive world.

00:31:15.940 He's like 1950 to 19, I think 94, he said in a positive world, it was culturally advantageous

00:31:22.680 to be a Christian.

00:31:23.840 Eisenhower adds under God, uh, into the, um, pledge, pledge of allegiance, entertainment

00:31:29.980 aligned with family values, you know, uh, Andy Griffith show, I love Walt Disney himself.

00:31:35.400 Incredible genius drawing so much, um, material from the kingdom of God, uh, analogies.

00:31:41.960 And then you have, uh, you know, birth control, sex revolution, the crazy seventies.

00:31:47.400 And then what happened when all the, the, um, the hippies went off their acid trips to win

00:31:51.860 academia.

00:31:52.700 Yes.

00:31:53.240 Right.

00:31:54.020 And so things began shifting, but no one noticed it yet because it was, if you want to run for

00:31:58.460 office, you got to be a Protestant, Catholic, Christian, or you got nothing.

00:32:01.680 And then things shifted and he, he identifies it in 1994, entertainment turns.

00:32:06.560 Yeah.

00:32:07.040 Friends celebrating illicit sex and pornography and broken relationships.

00:32:10.480 You have will and grace celebrating open homosexuality of all these things turning.

00:32:14.740 And at that point, evangelical world moved from positive world to neutral world.

00:32:19.540 People didn't hate you for being a Christian, but they didn't love you for being a Christian.

00:32:23.020 They were just kind of indifferent.

00:32:24.400 It wasn't under God anymore.

00:32:25.720 It was like, eh, with or without, we don't care.

00:32:27.180 And so there, there was a season of, of, of neutral world for the Christian where, um,

00:32:32.680 people didn't hate you, but they didn't love you.

00:32:34.240 It was just kind of whatever.

00:32:35.700 And then he identifies the 30 epoch of time starting in 2014, Ferguson, right?

00:32:41.060 Uh, some major evangelical Christian voices canceled.

00:32:43.740 And then the Obergefell ruling where it w it was codified into law by the Supreme court

00:32:48.560 that the Christian ethos and value in regards to the sexual ethic and definition of marriage

00:32:54.460 was no longer relevant to us as a society.

00:32:57.020 And he's like, at that moment, the tables turned and now we're in negative world reality.

00:33:01.780 Right.

00:33:02.280 Okay.

00:33:02.940 So it's not advantageous to identify as a Christian anymore.

00:33:05.920 You're not going to get social points for it.

00:33:07.780 You can say the same thing in negative world that would have got you cheered and supported

00:33:11.820 and loved by your community and positive and neutral world that now gets you shot at.

00:33:15.600 And if your highest value as a Christian or a leader is to be liked and to be nice,

00:33:20.140 getting shot at is a weird experience.

00:33:22.880 Right.

00:33:23.360 Right.

00:33:23.560 And so the missiological impulses of the leaders that, that, that grew up and were mentored

00:33:28.640 and did ministry in the positive world, neutral world, no longer translate to a negative world.

00:33:33.360 So the, the, the two things we talk about in the Bible, Glenn is contending and contextualizing.

00:33:38.120 So Paul says in first Corinthians nine, I became all things to all men that by all means

00:33:46.680 I might win some he's contextualizing.

00:33:49.900 He's trying to take the, the heavenly message of the gospel and make it intelligible to men

00:33:54.580 on earth, which is exactly what you're saying.

00:33:56.200 Does the Bible have anything to say about the clown show we're living in?

00:34:00.660 Right.

00:34:01.080 Right.

00:34:01.400 Yeah.

00:34:01.560 And then in Jude, the same, Paul says, I exhort you contend for the faith once and for all

00:34:08.220 passed down to the saints.

00:34:09.240 So there's this tension that a pastor feels.

00:34:11.440 I have to contend for the truth and I have to contextualize it in a way people understand.

00:34:15.920 We are living in a time and day and age when the church, I believe, and this is my opinion

00:34:21.080 and I could be off and I say this humbly as a man fails and broken and trying to.

00:34:25.800 Gospel of Josh.

00:34:26.960 Oh yeah.

00:34:27.720 Wow.

00:34:27.920 Yeah.

00:34:28.080 I got it.

00:34:28.720 Woe is me, a man of unclean lips.

00:34:30.200 That's my starting place.

00:34:31.500 My concern for my brothers is that we are over contextualizing and under contending.

00:34:38.400 That we're, we're using contextualization as an excuse to be quiet and to compromise.

00:34:44.540 Give me an example.

00:34:49.660 Romans 13 says we should obey the government and honor the government.

00:34:55.840 And the government says we should be okay with all these things that are explicitly against

00:35:00.660 the scripture.

00:35:02.060 But what we don't want to rock the boat, we need to be nice.

00:35:04.800 And if we say the things, people might leave our churches.

00:35:07.240 So we're going to contextualize the gospel by not addressing it.

00:35:11.980 To which I would say, wrong.

00:35:13.880 Number one, people walked away from Jesus every day.

00:35:17.680 More walked away than stayed.

00:35:18.940 Oh yeah.

00:35:19.240 So don't try to have a higher retention rate in your preaching than Jesus had in his ministry.

00:35:23.600 Number two, it's all of Christ for all of life.

00:35:26.000 If the word of God doesn't speak, there's not an atom in the universe that Jesus Christ

00:35:32.040 doesn't declare mine.

00:35:33.160 Which means the word of God is relevant and applicable to sex, money, power.

00:35:38.340 Everything.

00:35:39.400 Everything.

00:35:40.300 Politics.

00:35:41.220 Mm-hmm.

00:35:41.900 Right?

00:35:42.400 Like, in many ways, I think you could take the word of God, and there's a mainline theme

00:35:48.860 you could tie through scriptures where, like, one of the key tensions that's driving the story

00:35:53.340 is the people of God and tyrannical government.

00:35:56.580 Moses, Egypt.

00:35:58.820 Daniel, Babylon.

00:36:00.500 Esther, Persia.

00:36:02.180 Paul, Rome.

00:36:03.720 They murdered Paul because they deemed him a threat to public health and safety.

00:36:08.460 And so what I see pastors doing is they take Romans 13, and then they go, I need to contextualize

00:36:15.200 this, so we've got to obey the government.

00:36:16.760 And what they miss is they disconnect the writing of Paul in the epistles from the life

00:36:22.120 of Paul in the book of Acts.

00:36:23.760 And when you disconnect the writings of Paul from the life of Paul, you miss the message

00:36:27.160 of Paul.

00:36:28.500 So the same guy that said, honor the emperor, spent the last ten chapters of Acts suing the

00:36:35.740 government, calling them out, preaching the gospel, and they finally cut his head off.

00:36:41.240 But isn't that, I mean, you can't obey the government if the government has become

00:36:45.980 anti-biblical.

00:36:48.080 Yeah.

00:36:48.480 So I agree 100%.

00:36:49.940 So if we had time, I'd read through Romans 13.

00:36:52.600 When Paul describes honoring the governor of the king, he's assuming a righteous government.

00:36:57.440 Correct.

00:36:57.780 Because he says, they're here for your good.

00:37:00.520 Right.

00:37:00.720 Stop there.

00:37:01.640 What's good?

00:37:03.860 He says, they're here to punish evil.

00:37:05.480 Stop right there.

00:37:06.400 Who gets to define evil?

00:37:08.220 So the question that Krishna has to ask is, by what standard is the government called to

00:37:13.560 rule?

00:37:14.340 The moral law of God.

00:37:15.980 He says, they're here for your good.

00:37:18.320 They're here to, and he spells out, ironically, in Romans 13, the limitations of government.

00:37:23.960 They're here to punish evil and to reward good.

00:37:28.320 And to protect us from, I would say, incursion and outside invasion.

00:37:32.580 Very, very limited lane.

00:37:34.200 They're doing the opposite and they're not.

00:37:37.820 They're punishing good.

00:37:39.280 They're rewarding evil.

00:37:40.660 Right.

00:37:40.940 And so now we're back to Isaiah.

00:37:41.920 Woe to those who call evil good and good evil.

00:37:44.080 So at that point, what you have is an illegitimate government.

00:37:47.300 And what the Christian has to say is, I'm here to honor the jurisdictions of God.

00:37:52.420 But I'm not going to submit to an evil government because I'm submitting to a higher authority.

00:37:58.640 Correct.

00:37:59.040 Because every government is still one under authority.

00:38:01.900 And here's the thing I love, Glenn.

00:38:03.620 And Bible guys will get on me for this.

00:38:08.060 But listen to these words.

00:38:10.020 If I read Romans 13 and Paul says, you are to submit to the highest power in the land.

00:38:15.860 And you should be the best citizen of a nation.

00:38:19.160 Then my question is, to our church was, who's the highest law in the land?

00:38:23.260 And many Christians answered, the governor.

00:38:26.040 Which I said, no.

00:38:27.820 And then they answered, the president.

00:38:29.960 Which I said, no.

00:38:31.120 No, it's the constitution that represents that.

00:38:34.600 So we're not under Roman law.

00:38:36.660 So that's how I would contextualize.

00:38:38.860 I would take Romans 13 and go, okay.

00:38:40.740 Paul said to submit to the highest law in the land, which was the emperor.

00:38:44.380 And when the emperor acted unjustly and in evil manners, Paul was like, no, no, no.

00:38:49.020 You don't get to do that.

00:38:50.080 You're under God's authority too.

00:38:52.540 And if we lose the definition of good and evil, you can't do your job.

00:38:55.740 So when I take Romans 13, I contextualize it and I say, the highest law of our land, thanks

00:39:01.480 be to God, is the constitution.

00:39:03.220 Which I think in my very limited, redneck, backwater, blue collar, from the sticks, pastor's

00:39:08.240 opinion, is the greatest document in the English language, apart from the word of God.

00:39:13.960 I believe it's American scripture.

00:39:16.560 I mean, it was, the finger of God is all over.

00:39:21.600 The constitution, the declaration of independence, and the bill of rights.

00:39:25.380 So then people say, well, now you're making politics, you're idle.

00:39:31.080 And like, that's all just psych op smokescreen to keep pastors quiet from speaking the truth

00:39:35.180 in the face of evil.

00:39:36.460 And so when pastors tell me that we need to be Switzerland, we need to be neutral, I'm

00:39:40.160 like, all you get is when you're neutral in an evil culture is a sore crotch.

00:39:45.300 And then people are confused because if there's silence in the pulpits, there'll be confusion

00:39:49.560 in the streets, right?

00:39:50.760 If there's cowardice in the pulpits, there'll be evil in the streets.

00:39:55.100 If there's an unwillingness to talk about the very thing that's kicking everyone else's

00:39:59.040 butt, we're not being helpful.

00:40:00.620 So Martin Luther said, I think it was Martin Luther, he said, if I believe all the tenets

00:40:05.240 of scripture and yet am unwilling to defend that which is being attacked, I'm not being

00:40:11.140 faithful.

00:40:11.980 He's pointing to C.S.

00:40:12.860 Lewis's courage is the highest virtue because it's that which upholds all the virtues.

00:40:16.560 And so, but back to the contextualization of Romans, I'll make this final point.

00:40:21.160 I don't want to lose it.

00:40:22.840 Oh.

00:40:22.980 Think about these words, and they're just remarkable.

00:40:29.200 We hold these truths to be self-evident.

00:40:32.560 That all men are created equal and endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights.

00:40:39.460 That among these rights are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

00:40:44.780 And everyone stops reading.

00:40:47.240 But the next sentence, that government shall be established to protect these rights.

00:40:53.400 Established by men.

00:40:54.860 And that those governments shall draw their just powers from the consent of the governed.

00:41:02.020 Which means, I then have an obligation, not just constitutionally, but biblically.

00:41:06.700 Because Paul said, obey the highest law in the land.

00:41:08.220 Which for us is the constitution.

00:41:10.560 And the constitution tells me that if government acts out in an evil way, I have an obligation

00:41:17.640 constitutionally, but more important, biblically, to say, no, no, no.

00:41:22.460 We do not consent.

00:41:27.340 Because, bro, they only have as much power as we give them.

00:41:29.200 And if they're acting out in an evil way, and this is what I say often my church, we may

00:41:34.820 not be able to stop the tide of evil from coming, but we can keep the tide of evil from changing

00:41:39.420 us.

00:41:40.620 And when Jesus comes back, I don't want to be confused about where I stood in these muddy

00:41:44.160 times in relationship to his truth.

00:41:46.320 And so, for no other reason to make sure that Jesus knew where I stood on these issues, I'm

00:41:51.860 going to verbalize it.

00:41:52.960 I'm going to preach it.

00:41:53.960 I'm going to proclaim it.

00:41:54.820 And if I could say anything to my brothers in the pulpits of America today, which that's

00:41:59.040 a pretty big statement, but as I'm learning to do, brothers, be bold, be courageous, be

00:42:04.780 brokenhearted, walk in humility, walk in love, walk in the power of the Spirit.

00:42:09.760 Don't lose your spine.

00:42:11.000 Don't turn over your voice.

00:42:12.080 Open the Word of God and show your people the radical application of God's Word to every

00:42:17.580 corner of their life.

00:42:21.140 Set forth the truth plainly.

00:42:22.920 Don't take things that are simple in the Word of God and make them overly sophisticated.

00:42:27.980 Don't take things that are clear in the Word of God and make them muddy.

00:42:31.240 Don't make the people think that God does not speak to the moment we're in as a culture

00:42:36.620 because he does.

00:42:38.040 Don't get caught up in partisan politics.

00:42:40.860 Don't try to make the Word of God palatable.

00:42:44.060 Endeavor to make the Word of God intelligible and plain, because that's what's going to help

00:42:49.740 Glenn Beck.

00:42:50.240 Back with Josh in just a second.

00:42:53.160 First, let me tell you, sometimes the solutions we seek to fix a problem are really easy.

00:42:57.140 When you're living with pain, nothing is easy.

00:42:59.700 Nothing.

00:43:01.220 And you start to think, I'm never going to feel better.

00:43:03.740 I live with terrible pain in my hands, and I searched up and down, left and right, for

00:43:09.020 anything that would make it stop.

00:43:11.320 No matter what I tried, it never helped.

00:43:13.480 The only solution I found, something that actually helped break the back of this awful

00:43:20.020 cycle, was relief factor.

00:43:22.620 My good wife, Tanya, told me, I'm not going to listen to you.

00:43:25.820 I mean, that's not exactly the way she sounds.

00:43:29.600 She sounds more like, I'm not going to listen to you grave about it unless you try everything.

00:43:34.060 Swear to you, that's exactly how she sounds.

00:43:36.780 So, I listened to my good wife, and I took the daily supplement.

00:43:40.600 Helps your body fight that pain by fighting inflammation.

00:43:44.160 100% drug-free.

00:43:45.240 I didn't think it worked.

00:43:46.560 It did.

00:43:47.500 It did.

00:43:48.120 I thought, there's no way this is going to work.

00:43:50.140 You got it.

00:43:51.040 No.

00:43:52.560 Relieffactor.com.

00:43:54.180 Relieffactor.com.

00:43:55.380 Try it now.

00:43:55.940 I have to tell you, you said to me, I don't even know why I'm here.

00:44:09.060 I mean, have you been listening to yourself?

00:44:12.480 There are very few people in your position that are even saying this, this plainly, this

00:44:17.300 clearly.

00:44:18.060 We are entering a time where we have the freedom of religion, but we are losing our

00:44:25.900 freedom of religion to freedom of worship.

00:44:30.220 Yes.

00:44:30.760 Tell me the difference.

00:44:32.920 Freedom of worship was pushed by one of the presidential candidates a few elections ago,

00:44:39.920 and it's a psych-out smokescreen to silence and contain the church.

00:44:45.040 So, this doctrine of containment is, it's okay to do your thing as long as you do it in the

00:44:50.020 building, but then don't bring it out here.

00:44:52.700 Just this week in London, people were, they tried to arrest them.

00:45:00.540 Thank goodness it didn't happen, but they were told they could not sing hymns outside

00:45:06.540 of their church.

00:45:07.600 Yeah.

00:45:07.900 They were out front.

00:45:08.860 Yeah.

00:45:09.360 And the police came and said, you guys got to go back in church.

00:45:12.420 You're not allowed to sing those songs outside of the church.

00:45:16.100 That's freedom of worship.

00:45:17.440 That's right.

00:45:17.940 That's right.

00:45:18.320 Freedom of religion is, I have the freedom to practice my religion in the public square.

00:45:23.780 And it goes further than this.

00:45:25.720 You know, there are certain things, you know, that I cannot change because I deeply believe

00:45:34.020 them.

00:45:34.560 Yes.

00:45:34.840 You know, you just said, it's very unpopular now to be a Christian.

00:45:39.800 Yeah.

00:45:39.960 Well, I am a Christian and, and it is unpopular and I could make a lot more money if I had

00:45:47.120 gone the other side.

00:45:48.660 Yeah.

00:45:48.960 I don't because I believe these things.

00:45:51.600 Yeah.

00:45:52.120 So when they tell me you have to go along, keep that in the church, I can't.

00:45:56.360 Yeah.

00:45:56.940 Otherwise I'm not who I am.

00:45:59.300 I'm living a lie that will tear me apart because then I have to reject everything I believe

00:46:05.020 is true.

00:46:05.820 That's right.

00:46:06.180 Yeah.

00:46:06.780 Paul said, Galatians 1 10, if I was living for the approval of man, I could no longer

00:46:10.640 be a disciple of Christ.

00:46:12.240 And so whether it's a, it's a, it's a confliction in philosophy or a, or a crisis of nerve.

00:46:19.060 Like I, I, I've had pastors call me and tell me, I wish I lived where you live so I could

00:46:22.560 say what you say.

00:46:23.420 Oh my gosh.

00:46:24.400 And I think to myself, you're in Washington state.

00:46:26.740 Yeah.

00:46:26.960 Bro, look around.

00:46:28.080 It's very sporty up here.

00:46:30.060 And, uh, we get shot at, blogged about, lied about, smeared.

00:46:34.240 I mean, it's the craziest things get said about me and, and, and the internet and COVID leveled

00:46:39.380 the playing field.

00:46:40.360 It used to be, there was the Bible belt that was nice and the Northwest that was crazy.

00:46:43.700 And then some small rural towns that are like, like Americana, that's all gone.

00:46:47.820 There is no small town America, the internet and all of the things that comes with it.

00:46:52.360 All the problems, all the addictions are everywhere.

00:46:55.780 COVID took, you know, progressive minds that had gathered at the urban centers, stepped on

00:47:00.640 like a boot, all the rats scattered off the ship.

00:47:03.000 And now they're in small town, rural America voting the way they voted, taking the thing.

00:47:08.680 They're running from places that they destroyed with, with, with their, with their politics.

00:47:13.140 Here's the thing.

00:47:14.880 Politics matter because it affects real people.

00:47:17.060 See this now you just started.

00:47:18.300 It affects real people.

00:47:19.260 And so it's like, it's like, no, no, and it's like, like, call it positive, call it

00:47:23.160 who are wrong.

00:47:23.400 But when you say, oh, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're becoming a voice for, for the,

00:47:27.200 for the, for the radical right, you're playing into their hands.

00:47:29.900 Ah, there are people on the left and on the right who, if they die apart from Jesus, will

00:47:35.620 spend eternity in hell.

00:47:36.900 I'm an up and down heaven, hell guy.

00:47:38.520 So let's talk about Jesus and Jesus is God's word speaks to all of this.

00:47:44.000 So, so, so the move of the progressive left is to take moral issues and frame them as

00:47:48.800 political.

00:47:49.620 So let me say this.

00:47:50.900 Abortion is not political.

00:47:52.360 It's moral.

00:47:54.260 So-called gay marriage and the redefinition of marriage is not political.

00:47:58.820 It's moral.

00:47:59.900 This whole transgender, LBTGV2 alphabet soup garbage where we're, where we're mutilating

00:48:05.660 children as a step towards mental health is immoral.

00:48:10.780 You go down the line, right?

00:48:12.000 And so it's, it's like, they're in our lane now because God's word has things to say to

00:48:16.600 that.

00:48:17.000 And if in framing it as a political issue, we say, well, I can't be political.

00:48:20.660 I just, we got, we got a man of God.

00:48:21.920 We're voluntarily laying down our sword and we're voluntarily shutting our voice when God

00:48:27.520 says, speak.

00:48:28.300 So rather than being prophets of God in a day of darkness and chaos, we've, we've become

00:48:34.520 those who are with their silence, giving permission.

00:48:37.140 And I would say even participating in the lie, you know, Alexander Solzhenitsyn, when he was

00:48:42.400 being exiled from Russia, right?

00:48:44.980 Live not.

00:48:46.400 What does he say?

00:48:47.240 Live not by lies.

00:48:48.620 Live not by lies.

00:48:49.340 He writes his last essay and he says, you may feel downtrodden and beaten.

00:48:52.240 You may feel oppressed, outnumbered, outmanned, overwhelmed, but you are not victims.

00:48:58.120 You may not have guns and tanks and ammunition, but you have your voice.

00:49:05.600 And what he told them was, they can put you in prison.

00:49:09.020 They can put you in chains, but only you can shut your mouth.

00:49:12.840 So live not by lies.

00:49:15.480 Here's the, here's the problem with that.

00:49:16.800 Yeah.

00:49:16.860 Um, America has not exercised its religious muscle muscle for a long time, maybe a hundred

00:49:25.940 years, and it's just gotten weaker and weaker and weaker.

00:49:28.940 Yeah.

00:49:29.140 We don't have to be, we, I remember I read Immanuel Kant, uh, back in 95 and this stuck

00:49:35.780 with me because it was so odd to me.

00:49:38.860 I thought, what kind of world do you live in?

00:49:41.020 Right.

00:49:41.300 He said, there are many things that I believe that I shall never say, but I shall never say

00:49:45.880 the things I do not believe.

00:49:47.560 Okay.

00:49:48.780 And I thought, what kind of world do you live in where you, where you say that?

00:49:54.160 Yeah.

00:49:54.380 And it stuck with me.

00:49:55.660 Yeah.

00:49:56.680 It's this world.

00:49:57.800 Yeah.

00:49:57.960 It's this world.

00:49:58.920 Yeah.

00:49:59.320 And no one has the, we are all so spiritually weak.

00:50:04.900 Yeah.

00:50:05.540 Um, and even in good times, um, people don't want to look.

00:50:12.080 They don't, it comes even at school.

00:50:16.220 You want to be with the cool kids.

00:50:18.140 You don't want to be at your table and you'll sell that table out in a heartbeat to be at

00:50:24.200 that table.

00:50:24.840 How do you give people the courage when they're, when everything in them is sit down, shut up,

00:50:32.900 just be cool.

00:50:33.560 Just be cool.

00:50:34.360 Yeah.

00:50:34.980 Um, live in light of the fear of God.

00:50:38.880 That sounds cheesy and cliche and such a pastor, um, cop out, but the beginning of wisdom is the

00:50:47.380 fear of God.

00:50:47.940 And if I wake up more worried about what people say about me than what God thinks about

00:50:52.820 me, I'm forfeiting the anointing and favor and blessing of God.

00:50:57.040 And I'm dead in the water anyways.

00:50:58.660 And here's the thing is pastors say, well, if I say that it'll be harsh and people will

00:51:01.280 leave.

00:51:01.880 I say, no, no, actually what people are looking for is the truth.

00:51:04.620 They're starved for the truth.

00:51:06.560 Stop voluntarily silencing yourself.

00:51:09.320 And again, I take it back to not right or left, but up and down.

00:51:11.600 And God's given us a message and people need to hear the goodness of the gospel is that

00:51:17.240 all of this is going to burn up and be destroyed.

00:51:19.740 And part of it is, is it's exciting to be alive right now because God has always done his

00:51:24.060 best work in the darkest of times.

00:51:25.420 I truly believe that we are on the brink of an absolute supernatural breakthrough where

00:51:30.540 Jesus is like, I'm going to come down in Joshua chapter five.

00:51:36.620 Moses has died.

00:51:37.620 He's passed on his mantle to Joshua and he says to Joshua, and this is the word of God.

00:51:42.560 And he said, God says, be strong and courageous.

00:51:46.160 Be careful to obey all the law of my servant Moses gave to you.

00:51:49.360 Do not turn.

00:51:49.980 This is funny to the right or to the left.

00:51:53.060 Then you will be blessed.

00:51:54.800 People have to wake up and go, um, do I want the blessing of man or the blessing of God?

00:51:59.420 Do I want the approval of man or the approval of God?

00:52:01.740 Do I want, do I want to live in fear of being canceled by man or do I want to live in fear of

00:52:06.560 being canceled by God?

00:52:07.620 And as a man who speaks for God from the word of God, I'm terrified of, of misstepping or,

00:52:17.380 or, or, or silencing or softening what, what he would say.

00:52:20.560 So Joshua chapter five.

00:52:21.660 You and I have a lot in common.

00:52:23.420 I may not be speaking on behalf of God in, in, in your way, but we all are.

00:52:29.900 And when you've actually received his grace and you know what it was like before his grace,

00:52:38.660 I'm terrified of, especially now as things get darker, because even the very elect will

00:52:46.740 be misled.

00:52:47.780 There are, there's clear black and white.

00:52:51.660 And then there are things that you're like, wait a minute, we'll wait.

00:52:54.540 And you just have to stay so close to the spirit.

00:52:57.700 Yeah.

00:52:58.780 Yeah.

00:52:58.940 It's terrifying.

00:53:00.280 The more we say no to the spirit of God, the less he speaks.

00:53:03.400 We're grieving the spirit of God.

00:53:04.660 So I believe that we are, we are to live our lives according to the, to the, the verbally

00:53:08.760 inspired authoritative word of God.

00:53:10.760 And then the spirit of God speaks to us in our conscience.

00:53:13.600 And every time we say no, or we violate our conscience, we're just turning the dimmer

00:53:17.780 switch down in the voice of God.

00:53:19.260 And what I'm terrified of is turning it down.

00:53:22.200 So I don't hear it anymore.

00:53:24.260 Right.

00:53:24.940 And I think God has been, is doing, is going to continue to do a great work in your life.

00:53:29.620 Glenn, I believe that on my heart.

00:53:31.040 As you're pursuing truth, what is true?

00:53:33.040 Not what does man say?

00:53:34.100 Not what are those social religious constructs?

00:53:36.100 What does the word of God say relationship to my sin and his holy savior?

00:53:40.240 And how I'm going to do business with the God, the judge at the end.

00:53:42.820 Like, that's all we care about.

00:53:44.200 Right.

00:53:44.400 Cause if we get it right, if we live comfortable lives in the short term, like, like let's

00:53:48.720 take social justice.

00:53:49.480 If we, if we feed people, this is a, you know, harness, nest, a kick.

00:53:55.500 If we, if we meet people's temporal needs and don't meet their eternal needs, we have

00:53:59.840 done them the service.

00:54:01.040 We need cosmic justice to replace social justice or else nothing else will work.

00:54:05.200 But back to Joshua five, what I love is this.

00:54:07.280 And this is what one of my life verses was just buried in the text.

00:54:10.460 No one even thinks about Moses has handed it off to Josh and he has said, don't turn

00:54:17.040 to the right to the left.

00:54:18.380 Why would he tell Josh to be strong and courageous unless it was going to be difficult and terrifying

00:54:25.340 to be faithful?

00:54:27.480 Right.

00:54:27.920 Because anointing follows courageous obedience, not cowardly appeasement.

00:54:34.880 And so if I may quote Yoda, yeah, I'm not afraid you will be.

00:54:39.580 Yeah, exactly right.

00:54:43.280 And that's where I think leadership is pain tolerance.

00:54:47.920 It is.

00:54:48.900 Leadership is pain tolerance.

00:54:49.920 And so your influence will only go so far as the pain you're able to tolerate.

00:54:54.540 And so the, and God by his, his spirit can increase our pain tolerance threshold to the

00:55:00.440 point where we actually don't fear it.

00:55:02.000 We embrace it.

00:55:02.620 Not, not in some misogynistic like sick way, but, but to say that Paul, hey, throw me in

00:55:08.040 prison.

00:55:09.000 I'll just write songs and letters to the church.

00:55:11.800 Hey, murder me to live as Christ to die as gain.

00:55:14.640 And they're like, crap, we can't stop this guy.

00:55:17.680 The people, what is it, six that just are facing 10 years in prison because they just

00:55:22.540 stood at an abortion clinic.

00:55:24.480 They weren't, I don't know.

00:55:26.400 I didn't hear about it.

00:55:27.160 Oh, you didn't hear this?

00:55:27.700 Yeah, no.

00:55:27.840 Oh, in Nashville, a jury just convicted them of the FACE Act.

00:55:32.100 They, and because of the games the government is playing, it's gone from like six months

00:55:36.360 penalty to 10 plus years.

00:55:39.900 Wow.

00:55:40.200 I just had one of them on my show and he was like, hey, we're with Christ.

00:55:46.180 Yeah.

00:55:46.460 You know?

00:55:46.960 Yeah.

00:55:47.200 You win some, you lose some.

00:55:48.740 In the end, we win.

00:55:50.000 Yep.

00:55:50.400 And they're facing 10 years in prison and that's the kind of Christian I want to be to where

00:55:56.600 it doesn't matter where you are or your circumstance.

00:56:01.580 You are so aligned with him and you're like, dude, as long as I got him, I'm good.

00:56:06.060 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:56:06.600 Yeah.

00:56:07.100 There's, there's a, um.

00:56:08.420 Doesn't mean it's not scary at times, I'm sure, but.

00:56:11.020 No, but it can become exhilarating.

00:56:12.900 Yeah.

00:56:13.120 Because God's power flows to those who need it.

00:56:16.700 And when we take the safe road of appeasement or the safe road of silence or the safe road

00:56:21.380 of softening the message, God's power doesn't go there because it's not needed.

00:56:25.080 So I got to give this Joshua five text out.

00:56:27.880 It's my favorite.

00:56:28.400 And then you can move on, talk about something else.

00:56:30.260 Joshua chapter five.

00:56:31.440 Joshua has the mantle of leadership.

00:56:33.020 He's leading the people of Israel into the promised land, which I tell my church is,

00:56:36.000 AKA battleground, because God does this mighty work.

00:56:39.800 He, he, he, he, um, he, he halts, he halts the Jordan river, Israel crosses the Jordan

00:56:45.540 river, now they're in the promised land, but he's still got a lot of work to do because

00:56:48.740 it's full of, of, of enemies and rebels of God.

00:56:51.360 And so, first of all, it took a miracle to get the Israelites even onto the battlefield

00:56:54.860 in the same nature of us.

00:56:56.820 It takes a miracle of salvation to break through our hard, stubborn, sinful by nature and choice

00:57:02.280 to God, wake us up to the good news of the gospel, the glory of Jesus, the lordship

00:57:06.100 of Christ that we should lay ourselves down for him in repentance and faith.

00:57:12.140 Gets on in the promised land.

00:57:13.980 And the first thing they see is Jericho and it's like, well, crap, there's the bad guys.

00:57:18.860 Like we're in the promised land now.

00:57:20.400 Like, how's this going to go?

00:57:21.420 But the perspective from my church, I say, you got to flip it around.

00:57:25.260 The story isn't what's God doing, leading us here.

00:57:28.360 There's the bad guys.

00:57:29.060 Because the story is Jericho is looking down from the walls of the, of, of their encampment

00:57:36.320 and, and, and, and they're like, where are the Israelites?

00:57:39.160 They're on the other side of the river.

00:57:40.220 It's at harvest time.

00:57:41.080 It's flooding.

00:57:41.560 There's no way they can get across.

00:57:42.640 We're tactically sound.

00:57:43.660 We're good.

00:57:44.700 Next morning, where's the Israelites?

00:57:46.940 Oh, crap.

00:57:47.540 They're on our side of the river.

00:57:49.280 How'd that happen?

00:57:51.280 Uh, sir, the water just stopped flowing.

00:57:53.700 I think that Jericho knew they were defeated before the Israels knew that knew they had a victory.

00:57:59.380 Because it wasn't that the people of God saw the enemies of God.

00:58:02.320 It was that the enemy of God saw the people of God under the anointing and power of God

00:58:08.080 and were trembling.

00:58:09.120 And so we have to remember as a church is God has built us as an offensive vehicle.

00:58:14.080 And I mean that in every sense of the word.

00:58:15.880 What we say is offensive, right?

00:58:18.300 But you can't, if, if you work so as to take the offense away of the gospel, you take the

00:58:24.300 power away of the gospel.

00:58:25.500 You take the power of the gospel away.

00:58:26.860 And so, so Paul says, don't come in wise and persuasive words, but in a demonstration

00:58:30.780 of the spirit's power, we preach Christ and Christ crucified.

00:58:36.340 So pivot back to Joshua, Josh chapter five, Joshua's out on his own because leaders got

00:58:40.860 to get time away, right?

00:58:41.720 I don't know how you do this to your assistant told me your schedule.

00:58:44.060 It's mind numbing hours and hours on the radio hours and hours doing this stuff with

00:58:48.280 people you've just met.

00:58:49.060 And she's like, he can absorb an insane amount of information, synthesize it in his head.

00:58:54.240 And then he's, he's naturally curious, which to be honest, I haven't even watched much of

00:58:58.740 your stuff recently, though.

00:58:59.640 I'm aware of your voice and grateful for it.

00:59:01.640 I watched a couple of interviews and what hit me about you is that you are insatiably curious.

00:59:09.440 And I love that because as a measure of humility, it's like, I don't know everything.

00:59:13.020 I got a lot to learn.

00:59:14.120 I started here.

00:59:14.860 I'm moving here.

00:59:15.440 I'm shifting there.

00:59:16.280 Like that's contagious.

00:59:17.340 And so thank you for being a curious learner.

00:59:19.140 I think that's come to me as a child.

00:59:22.640 Yeah.

00:59:22.740 Why?

00:59:23.100 Why is this this way?

00:59:24.240 Yeah.

00:59:24.920 Yeah.

00:59:25.100 Once you say, I know it, you're done.

00:59:27.800 It's over.

00:59:28.300 It's over.

00:59:28.960 But as a leader, I'm sure there's times you got to get away, shut off the noise, turn

00:59:31.920 the phone off, stop watching cantankerous redneck pastors on Instagram and just kind of be alone

00:59:38.200 and like read the word of God.

00:59:39.780 If you have a Bible, listen for the spirit of God, the leading guide.

00:59:42.280 And that's what Joshua was doing.

00:59:43.940 And the Bible records this encounter.

00:59:45.740 He says a giant man with a sword approached him.

00:59:47.760 And so, so Joshua's in enemy territory.

00:59:51.680 Okay.

00:59:52.540 Leading the people of God on the mission of God to go to battle.

00:59:55.800 And Joshua was a fighter.

00:59:57.200 He's a warrior.

00:59:58.540 It says the text of Joshua drew his sword.

01:00:01.320 And he said, which I love.

01:00:02.660 Joshua wasn't like, you know, security breach.

01:00:05.240 Come help me guys.

01:00:06.000 Josh was like, I got this.

01:00:07.820 I'll take care of this.

01:00:08.800 No, no.

01:00:09.000 This guy's big and hairy.

01:00:10.180 This one looks fun.

01:00:11.820 And he says, who are you?

01:00:15.080 Are you for us or against us?

01:00:18.440 Right?

01:00:19.520 Do you know the answer?

01:00:21.600 The man said, neither.

01:00:25.920 But as the general of the army of the Lord, I'm here to do business.

01:00:31.760 Most theologians think that that is a pre-incarnate vision of Jesus.

01:00:36.100 The general of the Lord's armies.

01:00:38.040 And what's so crazy is when Jesus comes to Joshua, Jesus didn't say, I'm here to take

01:00:43.800 sides.

01:00:44.800 Jesus said, I'm here to take over.

01:00:47.780 So the question isn't, am I on your team?

01:00:51.600 Right politicians.

01:00:53.120 The question isn't, am I on your team?

01:00:55.580 Progressive woke radicals.

01:00:56.860 The question is, are you on my team?

01:01:00.220 That's the only question that matters.

01:01:01.360 And as an individual, am I on his team?

01:01:03.780 That's right.

01:01:04.700 And so are you for me or against me?

01:01:07.040 Neither.

01:01:07.880 I'm for me.

01:01:09.480 And that's the repeated testament of scripture is that God does all he does for his glory.

01:01:13.820 And therein is the only reason he can love us and worthy as we are.

01:01:17.060 And so the question is, are we going to get on the God's glory team?

01:01:21.200 And if we are, then it's exciting.

01:01:24.180 And G.K. Chesterton, that great, happy, jovial Catholic, once said, and this would be my

01:01:33.000 encouragement to the church in America, to pastors who are maybe discouraged, I would

01:01:38.300 say, don't give up hope.

01:01:40.780 Jesus wins.

01:01:42.200 Make sure you're on his team.

01:01:44.460 Don't live so as to avoid controversy.

01:01:47.280 Live so as to be faithful.

01:01:49.540 Right?

01:01:49.700 I mean, you look at the Anglican bishop who said, I find myself deeply troubled as of

01:01:55.400 late.

01:01:56.300 A friend asked why.

01:01:58.080 He said, because when I read the New Testament, in the spirit-filled apostles of Jesus, in the

01:02:04.780 spirit-filled life of the Christian, everywhere Paul went, he caused riots.

01:02:10.840 And everywhere I go, they serve me tea.

01:02:13.720 And there was a sense of holy conviction that I think there's something inherent in the word

01:02:24.060 of God and the gospel of Jesus Christ that is offensive and that stirs offense.

01:02:30.000 And if we're not preaching in such a way so as to stir offense, then we're probably not

01:02:35.740 preaching the pure gospel.

01:02:37.440 Because the ones that preach the gospel that are our example is Jesus, Paul, Peter, the

01:02:41.040 apostles, they all got their head cut off by a government who said, you're being too

01:02:45.020 political.

01:02:46.020 Because, and here's the thing, they were preaching and proclaiming, Glenn, a different

01:02:49.980 kingdom.

01:02:51.780 They were proclaiming, like I was reading a friend, he said, I have issue with the phrase

01:02:59.000 Christian nationalist.

01:03:00.420 And my problem with the phrase is the nationalist.

01:03:03.620 I'm a Christian imperialist.

01:03:07.240 God's kingdom.

01:03:07.880 There is an emperor, and that emperor has a body and a face and hair and hands, and that

01:03:15.100 emperor's name is Jesus, and he is still in bodily form at the right hand of God, and I

01:03:18.860 serve him and him alone.

01:03:20.100 I have to tell you, it's so funny, I happen to be wearing this today.

01:03:23.640 This is my personal logo.

01:03:27.740 Yeah.

01:03:28.060 It's a skull and crossbones.

01:03:29.340 This is a prototype.

01:03:30.420 It left off the crown.

01:03:31.520 There's supposed to be a crown there.

01:03:32.640 Okay.

01:03:32.920 This is a colonial symbol.

01:03:36.020 Yeah.

01:03:36.340 And it was no king but Christ.

01:03:39.560 Wow.

01:03:40.920 That mortal king?

01:03:42.820 That's right.

01:03:43.440 No.

01:03:43.940 He might have the crown, but no king but Christ.

01:03:46.740 And they rejected him because he was demanding an allegiance that we can only attribute to

01:03:51.040 Jesus.

01:03:51.480 Yes.

01:03:51.860 Yeah.

01:03:52.200 Interrupt you though.

01:03:52.880 No, no, no.

01:03:53.280 Did you make that up?

01:03:54.140 Or did you have that?

01:03:55.020 What is it?

01:03:55.300 No, I had this made.

01:03:56.500 But it's just, oh, that's just, it's going to spiral out of control now.

01:04:01.080 That's a sick, twisted freak for the, which I call my audience.

01:04:04.380 So, um, but, uh, I just, they had this understanding back then.

01:04:11.840 Yeah.

01:04:12.120 And, um, you don't lose your first citizenship to save your second.

01:04:17.040 Amen.

01:04:17.780 That's a good word.

01:04:18.600 So that's a good word.

01:04:19.280 And I'll tell you to the Christian leaders who are listening, um, people are starved for

01:04:24.360 the truth.

01:04:25.220 Starving.

01:04:25.800 Starving.

01:04:26.200 They'll listen to Christian nationalists because they're saying something and it may

01:04:32.340 be wrong, but they're saying something.

01:04:35.400 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:04:35.960 And like, like, I don't know how you define Christian nationalists and I'm going to get,

01:04:39.280 oh my gosh, in someone's trouble, but I could totally like, yeah, I'm a Christian who lives

01:04:43.100 in a nation.

01:04:43.740 Yes.

01:04:44.340 And, and, and I'm for my nation.

01:04:45.660 I'm pro that nation.

01:04:46.380 And I'm for God.

01:04:47.420 I think the Bible calls us to be patriots.

01:04:49.760 Yes.

01:04:49.860 I think every Christian in every country on the planet should think they live in the

01:04:52.880 best country because no family gets better and stronger and happier and healthy if they

01:04:58.360 think it sucks.

01:04:59.560 And so I think personally, no offense.

01:05:02.000 No, no.

01:05:02.620 I'm married to the most amazing woman in the world.

01:05:04.660 Oh yeah.

01:05:05.260 I take offense.

01:05:07.860 And I have the most remarkable kids in the world.

01:05:09.840 Right.

01:05:10.100 They're smarter than yours and better looking.

01:05:11.680 Right.

01:05:12.160 Right.

01:05:13.400 Right.

01:05:13.780 And that's the source of my family's thriving.

01:05:16.380 Right.

01:05:16.540 I look at my wife and kids and go, I know who I am, Glenn.

01:05:20.880 And I know I have no business.

01:05:25.800 Oh, you got me thinking about my wife.

01:05:27.440 I'm going to cry.

01:05:28.240 I have no business being married to what we're like Sherry McPherson.

01:05:31.480 But for some reason, God's grace, he said, I'm going to love my boy by giving him this

01:05:35.700 girl.

01:05:35.960 Now that comes with great responsibility, right?

01:05:38.100 To protect and provide and lead and love.

01:05:39.660 And I feel that and I carry that and that's good for me.

01:05:42.580 My buddy Mark says, men are like trucks.

01:05:44.780 They ride better with a heavy load.

01:05:47.720 And so I should carry that weight.

01:05:49.020 And my kids, my daughter, Ella May, my son, Levi, Gregory, my daughter, Amelia, Claire,

01:05:54.020 my son, Gideon, Joshua, they are the four best human beings on a planet.

01:05:58.280 They love me.

01:05:58.800 They're praying for us right now.

01:06:00.760 My daughter prayed for you this party.

01:06:03.520 If my daughter prays for you, it's in the bank.

01:06:07.040 Take it.

01:06:07.740 I have a daughter with cerebral palsy.

01:06:09.280 Same.

01:06:09.680 Oh my goodness.

01:06:10.400 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:06:11.020 Same.

01:06:11.500 My daughter was born in spina bifida in a wheelchair.

01:06:13.480 My daughter, the light of our life, the light of our life, never met a stranger, never

01:06:18.560 had a bad day.

01:06:19.700 Her daily regimen takes her through more pain and trials than most grown men go through

01:06:24.800 in a month.

01:06:25.700 And I've never once heard her complain.

01:06:28.360 It's her, it's just, it's just God just filled him with her spirit.

01:06:30.940 And she walks in that.

01:06:32.400 But, but, but I think we should think we live in the greatest nation on the planet.

01:06:36.820 Not because we're arrogant or not because we're nationalists, but because God's calls

01:06:41.280 to live here.

01:06:42.000 And if you hate your yard, it'll never get green.

01:06:44.340 You got to weed it.

01:06:45.200 You got to care for it.

01:06:45.940 It's going to be, you know, have weeds and you're going to be part of the problem sometimes

01:06:50.460 too.

01:06:50.940 But we're, but you want to love it to care for it so that it grows and thrives and

01:06:53.760 flourishes.

01:06:54.040 But we are also different in our nation because we have these documents that are the highest

01:07:03.740 authority in the land and they were God inspired and they, they unlock the rights that allow

01:07:11.880 you to read that, allow you to preach that.

01:07:15.640 Which is so important to point out because in the text, the document gives us authority,

01:07:20.060 right?

01:07:20.600 And then the constitution says, build these truths to be self-evident, that all men are

01:07:24.760 created equal, endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights among them life.

01:07:28.760 The constitution is acknowledging that government do not give men rights.

01:07:38.200 God gives men rights.

01:07:40.380 Government was not designed to give men rights, which means government cannot take men's rights.

01:07:44.680 Our government was, was, was born to acknowledge sovereign rights given to man and then protect

01:07:50.060 them.

01:07:50.500 And our insurance policy is the bill of rights.

01:07:53.440 That's right.

01:07:53.860 They're like, in case you didn't understand the first time, here's the bill of rights.

01:07:58.620 I interrupt you.

01:07:59.140 Keep going.

01:07:59.580 Yeah.

01:08:00.440 I don't remember what I was saying.

01:08:01.840 It was, it was amazing.

01:08:02.700 Yeah.

01:08:03.180 Well, let's leave it at that then.

01:08:04.380 It was going to change somebody's life.

01:08:05.220 Yeah.

01:08:07.580 And then I interrupted you.

01:08:08.680 I got to carry that down.

01:08:09.540 I got to live with that.

01:08:10.100 Yeah.

01:08:10.300 Well, you live with it because I, you know, I can't thank you enough for coming down.

01:08:15.000 Will you come again?

01:08:15.700 I want to, I've, I want to talk to you about men.

01:08:18.940 Cause I know your hat says stronger man nation.

01:08:21.880 Yep.

01:08:22.720 There is such a lack of understanding of men.

01:08:26.260 Yes.

01:08:27.140 And so I'd love to talk to you about that.

01:08:29.160 I'd love it.

01:08:29.620 I do remember kind of what it was.

01:08:31.540 It is.

01:08:31.960 It's important because we've danced around Christian nationalism.

01:08:36.480 Yes.

01:08:36.740 And it's really important.

01:08:37.700 And I'm not even sure how people define it.

01:08:38.980 So I'm over my skis here.

01:08:41.280 Most people don't, they don't know.

01:08:43.180 There's like you have defined, I love my country.

01:08:46.760 Right.

01:08:47.120 And I love God.

01:08:48.200 Right.

01:08:48.820 But I have this rule book called the constitution.

01:08:53.320 Right.

01:08:53.600 And they work together.

01:08:55.280 Yes.

01:08:55.420 But we're not a country that says you have to be this religion.

01:09:01.140 That's right.

01:09:01.560 You know, that's right.

01:09:02.420 We, our government should.

01:09:04.400 And we should, and we shouldn't be.

01:09:05.620 Yeah.

01:09:05.980 Right.

01:09:06.500 We shouldn't be.

01:09:07.400 Yep.

01:09:08.100 That's not Christian nationalism.

01:09:10.160 Yes.

01:09:11.140 Government can't change the heart of man.

01:09:12.900 Correct.

01:09:13.640 Laws can't change the heart of man.

01:09:15.000 It can stop punishing good behavior.

01:09:19.120 Yeah.

01:09:19.440 You know what I mean?

01:09:20.200 Yep.

01:09:20.540 But it should not be the, the ruler, the, the, the measuring tape.

01:09:27.320 That's right.

01:09:27.620 Of good behavior.

01:09:28.620 What does it know?

01:09:29.580 Yeah.

01:09:30.120 That comes from the individual knowing who God is.

01:09:33.980 That's right.

01:09:34.300 The more laws align with the word of God, the more human flourishing.

01:09:37.660 Yes.

01:09:37.960 More freedom comes about.

01:09:39.080 Yes.

01:09:39.480 100%.

01:09:40.080 Yeah.

01:09:40.960 So I think it was, is that what you're saying?

01:09:42.760 No, I just wanted to say that because I think that's the page you're on.

01:09:46.100 Yeah.

01:09:46.320 And the Christian nationalism thing is taking root.

01:09:51.840 And I don't think.

01:09:53.960 How would you define?

01:09:54.400 By average person, they just don't know what the bad Christian nationalism is.

01:09:59.420 Yeah.

01:09:59.600 How would you define Christian nationalism?

01:10:01.080 Like, like the most agreed upon definition of the phrase?

01:10:05.120 I think the most agreed upon is what we just talked about.

01:10:08.800 I think most people, when they are, when they hear Christian nationalism, they go like,

01:10:13.800 well, what's the problem?

01:10:14.400 I love my country.

01:10:15.320 I love, I love God.

01:10:16.860 What's the problem?

01:10:17.720 Black lives matter.

01:10:18.500 Yes.

01:10:20.380 But once you get past the BLM and the little black box, you're like, oh, wait a minute.

01:10:25.280 It means what?

01:10:25.880 Right, right, right, right, right.

01:10:26.560 Exactly right.

01:10:27.040 I think black lives matter.

01:10:28.400 I happen to think all lives matter.

01:10:29.440 Right.

01:10:29.700 You're attacking the nuclear family?

01:10:30.880 Right.

01:10:31.240 Wait a minute.

01:10:31.880 Exactly right.

01:10:32.480 Right, right.

01:10:32.820 And that's the whole theory of containment that he was talking about in terms of, if

01:10:36.920 we can contain Christians by guilt, by association.

01:10:40.180 So, for instance, it's like, you're going to the Glenn Beck show?

01:10:43.480 Yeah.

01:10:43.760 Well, do you know he believes this?

01:10:45.680 Or what if he believes?

01:10:46.180 And I'm like, I don't know.

01:10:47.320 I'm a Bible-believing, spiritual dude, up for a conversation with anybody who'll let

01:10:51.280 me speak freely and talk about Jesus.

01:10:53.080 Amen.

01:10:53.320 Let's see if we can move ourselves towards, you know, and let the chips fall.

01:10:56.780 And what I would tell pastors is like, saturate your mind with the word of God, walk in

01:11:00.760 the power of the Spirit of God, speak your mind, live with a clear conscience, go and

01:11:06.020 have a steak and sleep like a Calvinist on Benadryl.

01:11:11.260 Right?

01:11:11.920 Thank you.

01:11:12.540 My last word.

01:11:13.220 Can I get one more word in?

01:11:13.960 Yes.

01:11:14.220 G.K. Chesterton, that great happy Catholic, said,

01:11:18.300 the one great glory of walking by faith, this side of sight, you know, so our faith will

01:11:31.180 one day be sight.

01:11:32.080 And what we see dimly through, you know, we'll see, behold the face of Jesus.

01:11:36.100 The one great glory of living this side of sight and walking by faith is to be called

01:11:45.420 of God to participate in what feels like a losing battle and never lose.

01:11:52.280 Because the kingdom of God advances steadily through a series of victories, cleverly disguised

01:12:01.040 as defeats.

01:12:03.140 So brothers out there, take heart.

01:12:05.580 You stick with Jesus, the general of the Lord's army, going to get his business done.

01:12:11.020 He's going to win.

01:12:11.980 And we want to be on his team.

01:12:13.480 Amen.

01:12:13.920 Thank you.

01:12:14.840 Thanks for having me.

01:12:15.600 It's been an honor.

01:12:16.040 Just a reminder, I'd love you to rate and subscribe to the podcast and pass this on to a friend

01:12:26.940 so it can be discovered by other people.

The Glenn Beck Program - February 10, 2024

Ep 209 ｜ 'I Will NOT Submit to an Evil Government'： Juggling Politics & Faith ｜ Josh McPherson ｜ The Glenn Beck Podcast

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