Ep 21 ｜ Dr. Carol Swain ｜ The Glenn Beck Podcast
Episode Stats
Length
1 hour and 28 minutes
Words per Minute
151.37936
Summary
As a little black girl in Virginia, she knew she had a mission. Her story is one of the most fascinating American success stories that I have ever heard. Through hard work, she earned degree after degree at Yale and the University of North Carolina, and she elevated herself in the world. She became a professor at Princeton University, Duke University, and Vanderbilt University. She s a lifetime member of the James Madison Society, an international community of scholars affiliated with The James Madison Program in American Idealism and Institutions at Princeton, she has won so many different awards and honors and degrees, she s been name dropped by the Supreme Court two times, once by Justice Anthony Kennedy and again by Justice Sandra Day O'Connor. Her book, The New White Nationalism: Its Challenge to Integration, was nominated for a Pulitzer Prize.
Transcript
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Today, a one-on-one on stage 19 with an amazing person.
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This woman was born and raised in abject poverty in rural Virginia.
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She is the second of 12 that were crowded into a shack without any running water.
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Her earliest views of the world were pretty hopeless and desperate.
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But even as a little black girl in Virginia, she knew she had a mission.
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Her story is one of the most fascinating American success stories that I have heard.
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Through hard work, she earned degree after degree after degree from Yale, the University of North Carolina, and she elevated herself in the world.
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She became a professor at Princeton University, Duke, Vanderbilt, the girl in the shack.
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She's a lifetime member of the James Madison Society.
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That's an international community of scholars affiliated with the James Madison program in American ideals and institutions at Princeton University.
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She has won so many different awards and honors and degrees.
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She's been name-dropped by the Supreme Court two times, once by Justice Anthony Kennedy and again by Justice Sandra Day O'Connor.
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She has authored or edited nine different books.
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She's just started a brand new podcast, and she has a new book coming out.
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Her book, The New White Nationalism, its challenge to integration, was nominated for a Pulitzer Prize.
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That's cool, but what's really amazing is it came out in the early 2000s, and it pretty much predicted what we're going through now.
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Our guest, our American success story, is a natural-born rebel, and about as American as it gets.
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I feel like I'm talking to an American icon and somebody who perhaps knows America from so many different sides that most people don't know.
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I mean, you went from poverty to Ivy League professor, and I'm not sure which one was worse, but you have lived the dream.
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My mother had a 10th grade education, my father, 3rd grade, and they were separated and divorced.
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I had a stepfather, and my family grew to 12 children, 5 girls and 7 boys.
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We were poorer than the other poor people around us.
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And as a child, I remember feeling like a participant observer.
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Like, I was always watching my family, and I was very shy.
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And my mother said I would be hiding behind furniture in the corner, watching everyone, peering out.
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And it took me many, many years to get over my shyness.
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In fact, I became a university professor during the time I was at Princeton.
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And then I would try to write out everything I was going to say for class and try to read it.
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So you were—what about your other 11 siblings?
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We all dropped out of school after the 8th grade.
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I mean, if you reached 8th grade—I reached 8th grade.
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And, you know, there are parts of my story that I probably don't want to get into because there was a period.
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There was a period in my early teens when I studied with Jehovah's Witnesses, and they were saying the world would come to an end in 1975.
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And I can't say that that wasn't a factor in my decision to get married at 16 because I was thinking that I wouldn't have time to grow up and have children.
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But it was the poverty at home that made me feel like I needed to get out of that situation, and marriage was the only way I saw out.
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But—and I believed at the time—there were lots of things I believed that were not true.
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I believed that you had to be rich to go to college.
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I did not understand that, you know, by being smart, and if you studied and you applied yourself, you'd be able to get a scholarship.
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And when I say you would understand the part maybe about me believing the Jehovah's Witnesses, I know that, you know, that you're a spiritual person.
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And so I've always been spiritual in some sense, and I've always felt that there was something I was supposed to do.
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Even as a child, with my being different, I had a sense of urgency.
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And as a young adult, you know, I married, I had my children, never knew I would go to college.
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I had that unease because I've always felt that there was something I was supposed to do.
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I'd take bottles of pills, and always I was very successful at getting rescued.
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And at one point, I told a medical doctor that I was afraid that he would think I was too stupid to kill myself.
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And so—how many failures can you have, right?
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And so I made sure that he knew that if I was really trying, I could.
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So how did you go from—how did you go from dropout, married at 16, to college professor, Princeton, Yale?
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Well, first of all, you know, I don't know, you know, who will hear or see this podcast, but I do know that I felt trapped.
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I felt that things were very hopeless, and I had no clue that there was a future awaiting me, that I would go to college, that I would have the success that I have now, that I would overcome my shyness.
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And so I think that people should be encouraged, you know, when they are struggling, because they don't have a clue as to what God may do in their lives and through them.
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Wait, wait, wait, let me stop here for a second.
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When I was young, I had a God experience, I was about eight, and I felt sure that my life had a purpose.
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It gave me some arrogance younger and made me more sure of myself than I should have been.
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And it has blessed me because I felt like you do a sense of urgency.
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Well, I mean, I can say that there were times that I felt special, but I really didn't understand it.
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And then when I started college and I took my psychology class, I read about delusions of grandeur as a psychological condition.
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And I diagnosed myself as someone that could be leading in that direction.
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But no, I never fit, and I always felt that sense of urgency.
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And I've always been able to look at the world and see things that other people couldn't see.
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And so we are kindred spirits in that way, I think.
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But is that what—is that what—is that what kind of pushed you, the extra?
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And I can tell you that I hung out with Jehovah's Witnesses in my teens.
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And by the time I was 20, I left them completely, and I left religion completely.
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I would not have anything to do with organized religion.
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Just so people know, we prayed before we went on the air.
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And is it okay to say we prayed in Jesus' name?
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I can tell you that by the time I was in my late teens, early 20s, I was really embarrassed
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because I did not have a high school diploma, and I didn't even know about the GED program.
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And back then, when you had a child, you had to put down the highest age the mother completed
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And I think for the first child, I may have put the ninth or tenth.
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And so for the second child, I probably put the eleventh, but I was making up stuff because
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And around the time I was 19, I saw an article about the high school equivalency program,
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GED, that I could get a high school equivalency.
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And when I checked on the program, I learned that in Virginia, you had to wait until your
00:10:56.800
high school class would have graduated or whatever it was, I had to wait until I was 20 or it was
00:11:08.900
But the turning point in my life, there were two people.
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One was a medical doctor that I looked up and contacted about two years ago.
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And it turns out that he was 25 and I was, you know, 20 or late teens and 20 when he was my doctor.
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But and I was doing the suicide gestures and I had, you know, taken a bottle of pills.
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And I remember him telling me that I was attractive, that I was intelligent.
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And I was stunned because no one had told me that I was attractive.
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My siblings call me fish eyes and frankincense nine because I have a scar here.
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But I had that complex because I saw myself through the eyes of my siblings and they had plenty of names.
00:12:16.980
And then I remembered that there was a time when I was smart in school.
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One year, my siblings and I missed 80 of 180 days.
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And the reason we missed so many days is that we lived out in the country.
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And so if the weather was too cold or if it snowed and the snow was deep, we stayed home till the snow melted.
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And there were some winters when there was a lot of snow on the ground.
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But whenever we showed up at school, my older sister and I, we would make A's or B's and we weren't there.
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You know, it was like we could just walk in after having missed a lot of school and still do really well.
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And so I knew I was smart and that and I got attention, you know, from the teachers because I was smart.
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So it was the doctor that told you that you could have better than this.
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But in 1975, that was the world, that was the year Jehovah's Witnesses said the world would end.
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And I had, I have two sons and I had a daughter.
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They were dead-end jobs, you know, like selling Avon, you know, working fast food for half a day.
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And I worked the longest in the garment factory, but working in a nursing home.
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And in that nursing home, there was an African orderly from Sierra Leone.
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And he said, I go to college with a lot of people.
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And then I checked and learned that I could go to college with a high school equivalency.
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And I started, I enrolled in Virginia Western Community College.
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And I struggled through and got my first degree in business.
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And to show you the hand of God, I was a work-study student and working 10 hours a week in the library.
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The regular employees, a lot of times they would not show up.
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And they eventually, not long after I started, created a full-time job for me, 40 hours a week, nights and weekends.
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I graduated within the two years to get my degree in business.
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And I struggled with math and things that if you don't show up in school, you just can't wing it because of the concepts.
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I started applying for jobs in business and was told I needed a four-year degree.
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And then I did what any bright person would have done.
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I got the college catalog of the nearest four-year school, which was Ronald College in Salem, Virginia.
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I went through the catalog looking for all the fields that had the least amount of math, and I found criminal justice.
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And so I got my bachelor's degree in criminal justice.
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But I also made a decision, and I made the decision that I was going to graduate with honors.
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I had made the dean's list a couple of times at the community college because when I first started, I was making C's and I was not putting forth a lot of effort.
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Anything that didn't involve math, it was easy for me.
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Once I started putting in effort, then I was making, you know, A's and B's, and I was gaining confidence.
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But when I was applying for jobs in business, I realized I didn't have much to put in where they had places for awards and accolades.
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I did not have any data for those places in the application.
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I wanted a good job, and I thought I needed stuff to put on that application.
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So I checked out books on how to make A's in college, how to take S.A. exams, how to take objective tests, and I applied those principles.
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And my first semester at the four-year college, I had a 3.7 average.
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When I graduated, by then I'd taken my math and sciences.
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I had a 3.5 over that, and I graduated magna cum laude, working 40 hours a week.
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Nights and weekends in the community college library.
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When I graduated with my Ph.D., I had $25,000 worth of debt, and I actually started a scholarship at Roanoke College where I got my bachelor's degree, and it's called the Constance J. Hamler Scholarship.
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And Constance J. Hamler was one of my teachers at the community college.
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She was black, and she was married to one of the town morticians, the best black mortician.
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So she was the wealthiest person I knew, right?
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And so the scholarship was named after her, but when I started Roanoke College, I had hoped to get an academic scholarship.
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And this was the early 80s, 1980, and Affirmative Action had teeth then.
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And so I thought, you know, by being a high-achieving black student that I could get an academic scholarship.
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And I remember talking with the financial aid office before I started because I didn't want to keep borrowing money.
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They gave me some scholarship help, but it was not enough.
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So as I remember the conversation, the financial aid officer told me that if I had a certain GPA that I could get a scholarship.
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Well, then I had a 3.7 after the first semester, so I showed up, you know, asking for a scholarship.
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And then the next year I showed up, and I can't remember what I was told, but finally, someone said, no blacks have ever contributed money to Roanoke College, and some of the money has restrictions.
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And at that point, I said, well, I mean, this is, it was just being honest.
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And at that time, there was probably 20 blacks, and most of them were on the basketball team or on the sports team.
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And at that time, I said to myself, someday I'm going to start a scholarship at Roanoke College.
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But I was thinking down the road, you know, someday I would have money.
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Well, in the middle of the night, it occurred to me how I could do it.
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And so I thought about Constance Hamler and starting a scholarship in her honor.
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I was working at the library, you know, how to do a proposal.
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I went to her, a widower, and he was excited about it.
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Then I went to the president of Roanoke College and told him that I'd spoken with Mr. Hamler.
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Mr. Hamler would like to have a scholarship at Roanoke College in honor of his deceased wife.
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And the president, Norm Fentel, says, I know the Fentels.
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He called in his development people, and he said, I like this idea, make it happen.
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They were quite upset because they had a capital campaign,
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and they did not think that they would be able to raise much money for the scholarship,
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I believe we raised maybe, I don't know if we raised $100,000 in the first month,
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The last time I checked, it had over $500,000 in the endowment,
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and it supports seven, eight black minority students because it's open to all minority students a year.
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It was meant to be an academic scholarship, and that was my whole purpose was to have an academic scholarship for minorities.
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Someone made the comment that they didn't want a scholarship that would never be awarded,
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and it became a need-based scholarship, which it is now.
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But that I've always gone places, seen something that needed to be done, waited for other people to do it,
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and then had to step in because no one was doing the thing.
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Yeah, I know, you never did, but you could not have been, you were already living a life you couldn't have imagined five years before, right?
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But here's the other part is, my talent is art.
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Like, I'm a right-brain person in a left-brain world, and I wanted to do art.
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And I would say that people steered me, like I was steered into being practical, so I did business.
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I chose criminal justice because it had the least amount of math,
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and I knew that I would be good in anything that didn't have a lot of math.
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When I was graduating with my four-year degree, I knew I did not want a criminal justice career.
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And so I would get a master's degree, and I would become a civil servant.
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And while I was in graduate school, the professors urged me to apply for a Ph.D. program to become a professor.
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I could not get any of the jobs that I applied for, even though I was well-known in the city.
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I had worked with business people on the scholarship committee.
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I could not get a job, and it was the 1980s, so there was affirmative action.
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I was an honor student, and I could not get a job.
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So there I see the hand of God that I was sort of steered.
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I applied to graduate school because I couldn't get a job.
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And I got admitted to Duke and the University of North Carolina.
00:24:12.300
I applied to Duke and the University of North Carolina.
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And at Duke, the graduate director called me and told me that Duke was a rich, white boy's school
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And so at that point, I made them give me back my application fee, which they did,
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So why is it, Carol, that—and we'll continue with the story here in a second—
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but why is it that you have come from real poverty, real struggle, doors shut in your face?
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Why are so many people not willing to look at your story and say,
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Why are so many people of all races so miserable about,
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I can't make it in this, the world's against me?
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Stories like mine don't get told often enough to the people that need to hear it.
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And so even this podcast, the people that maybe could be encouraged by it,
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a lot of them won't hear, you know, see this or hear it.
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And when I think about why was I different, I've always believed in the American dream.
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I mean, my mother had that Protestant work ethic.
00:25:41.480
She was a stay-at-home mother in an abusive situation with an alcoholic husband,
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and she had her own struggles, but she would not take—she would not sign us up for free books or for free lunches
00:26:03.700
I mean, a few years later, she moved to the city and she would take it.
00:26:07.660
But at that particular time, you know, we were not taking welfare.
00:26:12.840
So it meant when I was going to school, I would have to do my lessons before I left school because I couldn't—didn't have the books.
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So I think that America is and has always been a land of tremendous opportunity.
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And what makes me different from a lot of the young people that I see and maybe some of the older people
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is that I lived, I guess, so isolated that I didn't get all those messages that the world was stacked against me
00:26:42.120
because of my color or because of my race or because of my poverty.
00:26:46.620
I always believed that if I worked hard enough, I could be successful.
00:26:50.160
And when I started Ronald College, my advisor, his name is Dr. Charles Hill, was a conservative.
00:27:04.000
They immediately gave me the list of all the racist professors not to take.
00:27:08.480
Dr. Hill was on the list of professors not to take because they were racist.
00:27:12.800
But I've always done the opposite of what everyone else did.
00:27:20.300
So I signed up for his class, met a B-plus in the first class.
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Internally, I thought, yeah, he just didn't want to give me an A the first time.
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I took several classes with him, and he was conservative.
00:27:35.480
So I read Thomas Soyle, Glenn Lowry, Edward Banfield, Milton Friedman.
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And I don't know if I would have been Marxist had I been exposed to Marxist thought.
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But it turned out I ended up with a professor that was conservative.
00:28:02.400
And I remember him telling me at some point, he said, you know, you're a Republican, don't you?
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You know, it took me 40 years later to become one.
00:28:12.320
But I think that it mattered, you know, that to be exposed to the ideas that I was exposed to.
00:28:20.700
But I had something going in because I had that attitude is whatever someone told me I couldn't do, I was going to show them I could.
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And today, I wish I was more like that person that I was when I was younger, because now I can see all the obstacles.
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First of all, let me just say this, and I hope you take this in the spirit that it's intended, and I think you will.
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I think you are one of the true remarkable intellectual leaders of our time.
00:28:52.100
You were just, I hope you take that in the right way.
00:28:55.280
I thought you were going to tell me I was a credit to my race.
00:29:06.620
No, I just, Thomas Soyle is just so clear and soft-spoken and just, he's just clear.
00:29:21.920
Walter Williams has been very supportive of me.
00:29:43.720
I have common sense, and I think that common sense is in such short supply these days that
00:29:53.200
And then I had, you know, I just believed in America.
00:29:55.640
I have a new understanding in the last 10 years of the scripture that the, I can't remember
00:30:10.700
But basically that the foolish will confound the wise because they think they're wise.
00:30:21.280
It's the ones that everyone is saying, well, you're an idiot.
00:30:25.420
Right now, the ones who are wise, they're, they're just off the, they're just off the
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And it is the people that they mark as foolish that are the ones going, it can't be just me,
00:30:42.600
Well, I mean, the scripture, I think that I should be able to quote the scripture.
00:30:56.280
It's like, it's like one of the scriptures I got, the Lord gave me after I had my conversion
00:31:02.580
And it has to do with, you know, God taking the lowly things to confound the wise, the
00:31:07.800
weak things to confound the mighty, the things that despise.
00:31:12.100
And so that, you know, no one would glory in who they are, I should be able to paraphrase
00:31:20.440
But yeah, Corinthians talks a lot about the foolishness of the wise.
00:31:26.900
I mean, this whole thing about the bathrooms and we don't, all of a sudden, you know, science
00:31:34.980
There's just so many things that, that are true that, that all of a sudden, you know, that
00:31:44.080
with the, you can, your mind can go so far out there that you can't recognize truth.
00:31:50.260
Even when it's right in front of you, even the truth of who you are.
00:31:55.000
When did we, because we crossed the bridge, we crossed the Rubicon at some point, we crossed
00:32:05.140
It seems at what point did you say, it's official.
00:32:16.240
We've entered a world where science doesn't matter anymore.
00:32:21.360
I think when they started all the, to me, nonsense about gender pronouns, and I can say
00:32:28.020
that in academia, as a student, and even as a professor at Princeton and part of my time
00:32:36.100
at Vanderbilt, I was not interested in critical theory and deconstructionism and all of that
00:32:43.220
stuff, the cultural Marxism, I was not interested in it.
00:32:48.660
And I regret, because I've had to educate myself on my own about things that matter now.
00:32:55.260
But what I see is that the political left, that they had a, they had, they were in for
00:33:05.260
And they're much more persistent than conservatives.
00:33:09.680
And so that they so clearly infiltrated organizations, like professional organizations, institutions,
00:33:20.540
And you just need a few people to work that way to the top.
00:33:24.800
And so they were able to implement all of those changes.
00:33:30.420
And I think, you know, that's Herbert Macusa, Saul Alinsky, that they were the masterminds
00:33:40.960
But they have been so successful with their disciples that today at many universities, professors
00:33:51.200
They don't, you know, label themselves, but their ideas run the institution.
00:33:56.180
And that's why the political correctness has reached the point where it is.
00:34:02.520
And you have people that have been educated in law schools that say that due process, presumption
00:34:08.360
of innocence, that those things are no longer relevant, that free speech doesn't apply to
00:34:14.040
everyone, only people that have the right ideas.
00:34:23.100
I think when President Obama was elected, that a lot of the people that shared those leftist
00:34:29.020
ideas, you know, they were able to rise in government and foster a climate where things were such
00:34:42.920
But I think that his election under, still under cover in many ways while he was in the presidency.
00:34:51.200
But after eight years, the masks have all come off.
00:34:54.640
I mean, now people don't have a problem saying I'm a socialist.
00:34:57.640
When I said the president is, is, has, has said that he thinks the Constitution should be reversed,
00:35:08.380
that it should be, you know, a guarantee of certain things the government must do, not
00:35:13.780
a guarantee of the things that they will not do.
00:35:16.720
He himself admits that he was hanging around Marxists, that he has Marxists and socialist
00:35:21.660
He has Marxists in his own cabinet or in his administration.
00:35:29.120
Well, also, do you remember, was his name John Holdren, the science czar, I mean, that
00:35:38.520
he co-authored a book that talked about putting...
00:35:47.160
There were some other extreme things that were in that document.
00:35:51.080
But if you actually mentioned any of that, all of a sudden you were a conspiracy theorist.
00:35:58.480
Someday, Glenn, you'll be known as a great prophet.
00:36:03.160
I actually hope not, because those are always killed.
00:36:05.860
Well, they are, but they die for the greater cause, right?
00:36:09.160
But it's, it's amazing, because I said at the time, at some point, they want to embrace
00:36:17.720
They want to say, yeah, I am a Marxist, because your capitalist ideas don't work.
00:36:23.900
And I said, there are going to come a time where they're just going to take the mask
00:36:27.340
off and say, yeah, I'm a Marxist, I'm a socialist, and we're there now.
00:36:32.080
And there was a survey maybe three or four years ago that showed like maybe 30 percent
00:36:37.960
of American students thought socialism was a good idea.
00:36:44.480
And in a course that I took that looked at the impact of communism on American political
00:36:49.920
thought, there were a few students that argued that it works.
00:36:55.400
And so somehow they think that there's a way to do it, that it will be successful, even
00:37:01.820
though throughout history, it's never been successful.
00:37:06.660
And part of the problem is that they're not being fully educated on the Constitution or
00:37:30.820
When I got my transcript back, I was an A student, but I was just not interested.
00:37:44.960
The professor, Wayne Meeks at Yale University, said to me, he asked me out for lunch because
00:37:51.360
I was arguing with him because I wanted to know why he was telling me not to read the
00:38:14.640
OK, I was reading Dominic Crossan and didn't buy into any of it.
00:38:19.080
But I was reading it because I was reading all these people who disagreed with each other.
00:38:29.340
So I came back the next week and I had read what he told me to.
00:38:31.800
And I raised my hand and I asked the same question and he said, Mr. Beck, didn't I tell
00:38:37.780
I said, yeah, but I don't care what you tell me not to read.
00:38:43.280
I read what you read and we can talk about that.
00:39:13.740
But anyway, he reached across the table and he said, you know, you belong here.
00:39:33.720
I'm, you know, reading this and I'm reading that.
00:39:42.440
And he said, nobody does that by themselves, you know?
00:39:50.800
But you need somebody in your life, like you've had, to say, you're smart enough.
00:39:57.860
And it seems as though all of society, all of the university experience from the outside,
00:40:14.640
No, it's telling that to certain groups of people, you know, and what it's doing to people
00:40:20.260
that are, you know, the ones they're training to be the future leaders, is that they're
00:40:26.720
bringing them in and telling them what to think.
00:40:29.740
They're not exposing them to divergent views where they can develop new ideas.
00:40:34.960
They come in and the university is trying to impose a preset group of ideas.
00:40:44.400
You said to me 20 years ago, you know, they'll burn books in your lifetime here in America.
00:41:01.200
Who says freedom of speech, yeah, but there's a lot of dangerous speech out there.
00:41:15.360
If I'm convinced of something, I want to read the other side.
00:41:29.040
Well, I mean, why is freedom of thought and freedom of questioning important?
00:41:34.900
I just think that for a person to be able to develop critical thought and to come up with new ideas and inventions, you have to be exposed to ideas.
00:41:47.780
And if you're in a situation where you're not allowed to explore or to ask questions, like in college, students could get in trouble for asking the wrong question about...
00:42:02.200
And professors could get in trouble for researching the wrong ideas.
00:42:10.420
2002 was when my book, The New White Nationalism, was published.
00:42:15.420
And to get data for that book that I started in the late 1980s while I was at Princeton, during the time I was getting ready to leave, I commissioned interviews of white leaders that were on the extreme to less extreme.
00:42:33.580
I was interested in white nationalism, you know, white supremacy.
00:42:39.720
But I commissioned those interviews because I wanted to know how people developed the kinds of thoughts they did.
00:42:49.160
So I had a white interviewer interview people about their childhood.
00:42:54.520
And two of my interviewees were Jewish people with PhDs.
00:42:59.240
And then there was Jared Taylor, who graduated from Yale University and has a degree from the London School of Economics.
00:43:07.060
And these were very articulate people that were not like, you know, the neo-Nazis and the white supremacists.
00:43:17.280
And, you know, out of that study, that's why I called it the new white nationalism.
00:43:25.040
I was criticized and condemned for having them interviewed and not attacking them.
00:43:32.120
Like, my interviewer asked them questions and we just recorded what they said.
00:43:36.960
We didn't attack them and argue with them and try to change their minds.
00:43:46.480
They were saying you were given a form to people that didn't deserve to be heard.
00:43:57.040
That when they started Psychological Profiles, people said, you don't talk to these mass killers.
00:44:04.580
And they said, we have to talk to these mass killers.
00:44:09.160
We have to know what they're thinking because we'd never seen that before.
00:44:15.300
And so we went in, researchers went in and talked to them.
00:44:20.800
We know how to put together psychological profiles because of that.
00:44:26.200
If we don't talk to people and stop shutting them up, you're never going to learn what the well of the poison is.
00:44:35.080
Well, I can tell you that part of the conclusion of my book was that white identity and white interests,
00:44:41.200
I have a paragraph in the concluding chapter, would be the next phase of identity politics in America.
00:44:46.880
And it had to do with the grievance, you know, that the intellectuals felt, that they felt that white people were being discriminated against
00:44:56.060
and that that was against the Constitution and the Civil Rights Act,
00:45:01.100
that Jared Taylor argues that white people need leaders like blacks and Hispanics to speak for their interests.
00:45:08.960
And with the Jewish interviewees, you know, they were pretty upset about affirmative action.
00:45:14.900
One of them has a Ph.D., you know, from Princeton, and he could not get a decent job.
00:45:20.420
And so as white men that were intellectuals, you know, they had grievances over affirmative action.
00:45:28.140
And in that book, I identified some policy issues.
00:45:35.460
Racial preferences, concerns about crime were among the issues I identified that a lot of people had grievances about,
00:45:44.220
but they were not being addressed in a way that was satisfying.
00:45:48.040
And it was creating an opening for more extreme voices to step in there and speak because we weren't allowing the discussions to take place.
00:45:59.640
And my philosophy has always been what you don't know can hurt you.
00:46:06.260
And I would rather know who a person is and what they believe than have someone so intimidated that they're not going to open up.
00:46:16.320
I think that's far more dangerous when we have political leaders or leaders of institutions,
00:46:21.440
and we don't know who they are because they've learned how to conceal their ideas.
00:46:26.920
And it's dangerous to have a learning environment for students where they cannot ask innocent questions
00:46:33.480
about the realities they see around them without being ostracized and condemned and stigmatized.
00:46:54.540
I see in the Constitution that the government is supposed to ensure domestic tranquility.
00:47:16.980
Back in 2002, I probably would have read your book.
00:47:21.120
But I probably would have read that book and went, come on, it's not that bad.
00:47:25.900
But some people saw that I was on to something, and they thought the book was, you know, prescient.
00:47:32.360
I think that, I think, and I kind of look for, I mean, I'm a, you know, I'm an optimistic catastrophist.
00:47:53.000
I realized that Jared Taylor, the way he articulated things, that he could point out the racial double standards, and he could say, well, pretty much like multiculturalism, every group can celebrate who they are except white people.
00:48:09.420
And it's okay, you know, people are discriminating against white people, and there are these crimes against white people, and no one's speaking up for white people.
00:48:17.280
I felt like that he was making an argument that had I been white, I might have found him persuasive.
00:48:24.360
That scared me, because I knew that his arguments would reach young people, and it could be a slippery slope for some of them, that they might start out on the intellectual end and end up, you know, with David Duke and the guy, Pierce, that started the National Alliance.
00:48:45.620
And so I had white leaders, you know, on the spectrum of very extreme to ones that pretty much, I would say, they were like the alt-right.
00:48:59.220
They were not espousing violence against blacks.
00:49:02.520
They were not saying that they—some of them were not white supremacists.
00:49:07.420
Jared Taylor said he's not a white supremacist, that Asians are smarter than whites.
00:49:12.120
And so he would say that he just goes with the science.
00:49:18.020
And he would argue that when you have diversity, multi-ethnic societies, that it's much harder for them to get along.
00:49:25.980
And then when Robert Putnam at Harvard produced a study some years ago that pretty much said the same thing, he was kind of embraced by the white nationalists
00:49:35.160
because he found that countries, you know, that had a lot of—pretty much the more homogenous—
00:49:49.200
So—but we have done the opposite of listening to you, listening to your book, listening to the warnings, and then listening to people.
00:49:59.440
For example, we have—and this is happening all over the world, not just in America—we are not only not listening,
00:50:08.200
we are now saying if you feel anything, you feel disenfranchised at all, if you're white or if you're not transsexual,
00:50:28.060
But you're putting people in corners to where—and this is the way extremism always happens.
00:50:36.320
But the left is so inconsistent, you know, because with Rachel Dolezal, the white lady that became the head of the NAACP
00:50:45.860
and pretended to be black and took a black name, and then now, you know, she's—I don't know, she's been indicted or—
00:51:01.280
But the other thing about her is that when she was a student at Howard, she sued the university for racial discrimination
00:51:08.100
because she said they would not give her a scholarship because she was white.
00:51:12.140
And I guess she decided if she couldn't beat them, she was going to join them,
00:51:15.300
because then later, you know, she started to pass as black.
00:51:21.060
With Elizabeth Warren, if the left, you know, was consistent, you know, they would hold her to a higher—
00:51:29.900
they would hold her accountable for ethnic fraud because she obviously, you know, gained affirmative action,
00:51:41.200
Like, they have no standards when it comes to their own, anything that fits their current agenda.
00:51:48.200
Well, you look at the government shutdown over the border,
00:51:51.480
and at the same time, Governor Cuomo of New York is saying,
00:51:55.120
I won't sign the budget for the state of New York until everyone has full, unfettered access to abortions up to the point of birth.
00:52:07.420
He's holding—he, at the same time, he's holding the state of New York hostage.
00:52:15.180
how dare Donald Trump stand for the wall and hold America hostage?
00:52:23.280
And that's where I think your common sense, you know, we're the foolish, I guess.
00:52:28.740
I mean, the political—well, do I want to call them the political right,
00:52:35.260
or do I want to call them Republicans, I'm so disappointed with them that they cave,
00:52:44.860
And as far as a person being white, you're going to be called a racist,
00:52:49.960
regardless of what you do, because that's an epithet used to silence someone.
00:52:54.300
And so if you believe in walls and borders, if you believe in the rule of law,
00:53:03.460
And so I think that it's important for people to have principled reasons for what they do,
00:53:09.320
but to realize that that's a political strategy to call someone a name.
00:53:14.460
And I was very disheartened when McCarthy went along with stripping Representative King
00:53:27.460
of his committee assignments because of an allegation that he had said something supportive of white supremacy
00:53:34.800
and white nationalism without their actually looking at what he said
00:53:39.500
and the fact that he gave a 56-minute interview, you know, with the New York Times.
00:53:45.320
They took one sentence out of that interview where he was talking about Western civilization
00:53:49.640
and its merits and used that to paint him as a white supremacist.
00:53:56.380
I believe that if they had just waited overnight for him to get a statement out,
00:54:06.380
The day that really happened, I said to my staff,
00:54:27.520
I mean, you think back and you're like, oh, wait a minute.
00:54:35.320
The day that happened, I went to my staff and I said, call Steve up.
00:54:52.780
And everyone said, no, he's been abandoned by everyone.
00:55:02.840
And there's this piece of you that says, wait a minute.
00:55:07.040
I don't want to be alone because then I'm just, I don't know.
00:55:12.100
I went on Twitter immediately and said the Republicans should have defended his
00:55:18.900
Because even with the sentence that they were using,
00:55:24.120
And I said, they should have given him time to explain.
00:55:26.820
Or at least even contained the rest of the sentence.
00:55:32.440
I didn't even know at the time what he had completely said.
00:55:35.740
But I mean, like even with the Kavanaugh hearing, for a while, it seems like the
00:55:40.980
Judiciary Committee, they didn't know what to do because it was women involved.
00:55:44.680
It was obvious to me what they could have done and what they should have done.
00:55:51.360
The first, they should have trotted out female members of Congress that were Republican,
00:55:56.680
and they should have defended the judicial process, due process, rule of law.
00:56:03.220
Those principles and those principles have nothing to do with whether the person in front
00:56:10.060
It has to do with, in America, we, a nation of laws, we had these processes, we had this
00:56:18.120
All they have to do is defend the constitution, and yet they go along with the political left.
00:56:22.980
But people will say that this isn't a court of law.
00:56:32.140
And if it's a court of public opinion, tradition and conservatives will always lose because
00:56:39.920
the media, for the most part, is controlled by the political left and the cultural Marxists.
00:56:45.840
And so everything is stacked against anything that's traditional.
00:56:50.480
And so I think that the most important thing that we can do as Americans for our young people
00:56:55.740
and for ourselves is to argue for our constitution.
00:57:03.020
And when it comes to the judicial process, the rule of law, that we have to stand on that.
00:57:12.200
And we have to stand for the principles outside of the rule of law.
00:57:17.420
I was shocked that I came home and my wife, she's not real political.
00:57:26.180
And I came home and she said, almost in tears, what's going to happen to our son?
00:57:34.140
You don't think that in 20 years he's going to say something stupid?
00:57:41.380
And that one thing taken out of context and no chance of defending yourself on it?
00:57:48.640
With the Republicans, with the Roy Moore accusations, again, like, I don't care what people say about
00:57:55.540
me because once, you know, you're over 60, it is what it is.
00:58:06.080
I defended his right to due process and the presumption of innocence.
00:58:11.200
And I knew that if they allowed these women to step forward with vague memories of things
00:58:18.420
they said happened, you know, 40 years ago when they were teenagers, that if you could
00:58:23.460
destroy a person's life with that, no one would be safe.
00:58:26.800
And there were Republicans that lined up behind—lined up with Democrats against Roy Moore, they
00:58:36.520
And now we know because of a New York Times article about this secret experiment that there
00:58:43.940
were people that were hired to create, you know, fake news and to target Alabama to see
00:58:56.000
I knew that if they allowed that to stand, that the left would continue to use that tactic.
00:59:02.940
And Kavanaugh, you know, once he got through that hurdle, I think he should have filed charges
00:59:09.740
against Ford because it's pretty clear that she was used, she was positioned.
00:59:20.440
And when people need to be held accountable for what they do.
00:59:27.960
And because we didn't do the right thing as conservatives to stand up, you know, for principles,
00:59:33.800
the judicial process, that same tactic was used against Kavanaugh, and it will be used again
00:59:42.240
and again, and there is an endless supply of women who are willing to be trotted out until
00:59:47.920
there are enough lawsuits that people see that there's a cost involved to lying.
00:59:54.320
That was the thing that really bothered me, because I watched that, the Kavanaugh hearing,
01:00:02.140
You know, I was like, I'm going to go open mind.
01:00:07.280
I listened to her, and I did not find her credible.
01:00:17.280
It's exactly how I would have reacted if I had been—if I had been told, shut your mouth
01:00:21.800
for two weeks, while my children, for the rest of my family history, they will look back
01:00:30.480
at me as their relative, their father, their grandfather, their great-great-grandfather,
01:00:35.580
and I'm the guy who raped this woman, and you haven't allowed me to say word one?
01:00:41.700
Oh my gosh, I would have lost my mind in that situation.
01:00:47.500
But what I said was, we'll know, because after he's appointed, if everybody goes away,
01:00:57.240
Notice she hasn't gone away, and in fact, we found out since that the FBI spoke to her
01:01:05.860
friends on the beach, and it was concocted and put there just for that, and nobody corrected
01:01:19.400
How can you—I'm not even talking—I don't care about Congress.
01:01:25.160
That's like, you know, clowns laughing at clowns.
01:01:28.520
You notice conservatives are the only ones that get in trouble for lying to Congress.
01:01:33.660
So, but it matters that you have the power to destroy someone's life with a lie, and you
01:01:46.280
And I think we're—I think what has to happen with conservatives, with the Constitution is
01:01:52.520
we have to find ways to take it out of the old dusty powdered wig talk and actually apply
01:02:00.320
it to real things and say, look, this is due process.
01:02:06.160
Well, some law schools are not even, you know, teaching the Constitution, or if they're teaching
01:02:10.640
it, they're teaching it as the living Constitution.
01:02:13.380
It means whatever you want it to mean or whatever I say it means.
01:02:18.120
Isn't that case law, it's what somebody has said most recently about that.
01:02:28.180
But, I mean, there were some things that I thought we could take for granted, and that
01:02:31.620
would be freedom of speech and our First Amendment rights, and that no longer seems to be the case.
01:02:39.580
And one of the things I find most troubling now is the fact that in the mainstream media,
01:02:45.440
there seems to be just no—very little that's reliable.
01:02:52.900
And, you know, like whatever is reported—well, one thing, the mainstream media keeps the population
01:03:01.520
ignorant by not reporting on things, because there are some individuals that if it wasn't
01:03:06.320
in the New York Times or on CNN, it didn't happen in the world.
01:03:12.880
There's—there's—I just thought of this the other day.
01:03:16.240
I used to joke when I was—years ago when I was in New Haven.
01:03:20.200
New Haven had the New Haven Register, which was extraordinarily left, and it was just horrible.
01:03:26.340
And I used to joke, well, if it didn't—if it wasn't in the New Haven Register, it didn't
01:03:31.800
But I thought of that now, so many important—I'm—I'm—I'm—I'm—I'm focused this year,
01:03:39.580
I'm trying to stay focused on the politics of meaning.
01:03:44.160
All you're seeing are these—the politics of nonsense, literal nonsense.
01:03:50.120
And nobody's talking about the things that actually will solve things, will actually move
01:03:58.280
the needle, will actually save people, will—will make—will push us forward.
01:04:04.100
Well, we seriously have to do something about Congress.
01:04:09.400
And when I say Congress, I'm not saying just the Democrats or just the Republicans.
01:04:14.020
You know, some of the things that I've learned recently that the average American probably
01:04:17.840
doesn't know is that 90 percent of our prescription drugs are made in China, and the drugs that
01:04:27.000
And that had to do with Congress, you know, crafting—you know, they've made it so that
01:04:33.180
American businesses go out of business because they can't compete.
01:04:38.060
And so that's a very dangerous situation to have a rival nation that we know is unreliable.
01:04:44.220
And when the FDA wants to inspect a drug plant in China, they have to give two weeks' notice.
01:04:53.640
Sounds like, you know, Syria and weapons of mass destruction.
01:04:56.760
But there's been—there's been a situation with blood pressure medicine that was laced with
01:05:11.060
There have been several cases where, you know, people have been taking these drugs for years
01:05:16.700
not knowing that they were made in an unsafe manner.
01:05:26.900
I believe our members of Congress, you know, they are aware of it.
01:05:32.540
They set the stage for that in 1987 when they were reforming the Medicare Act, and they put
01:05:41.100
in a safe harbor that ended up exempting certain group purchasing organizations.
01:05:48.000
And then now they have pharmacy benefit managers.
01:05:51.500
And the big drug companies in the U.S., there are a lot of drugs that they are not making
01:05:58.700
And that's a danger to the American population.
01:06:05.260
Ted Cruz is pushing a congressional—I mean, sorry, a constitutional amendment for term limits.
01:06:15.940
And people are scoffing at it and saying, oh, they'll never pass term limits.
01:06:21.160
Well, Congress wouldn't, but there are other ways.
01:06:23.480
I wonder, we, I mean, look at how long the government was shut down and didn't seem to
01:06:37.160
I mean, this border wall thing, I think the average American on the border wall says, look,
01:06:44.940
I want to make sure MS-13 is not in my neighborhood.
01:06:50.260
I want to make sure that good people that just want to make us better and want to become
01:06:54.020
American can come through the front door, but make that easier.
01:06:59.160
The reason why they're demanding a wall is because they don't trust government.
01:07:03.920
They say, I want something permanent because you'll pass it.
01:07:09.600
And if you do build it, you'll stop, you'll stop doing whatever it was you said you were
01:07:19.040
So we're, we're, we're looking at this, this time where I think somebody like Donald Trump
01:07:28.280
could say, you know what, you know why this border wall is, is in the mess that it is?
01:07:36.100
Because nobody in the Republican party actually mean it when they tell you border wall.
01:07:42.360
Nobody in the Democratic party actually mean it.
01:07:50.880
And I think he could make the case to both sides.
01:07:56.160
Um, my latest, most recent academic book is, uh, is an edited debating immigration.
01:08:04.400
And, um, and it was released August of last year.
01:08:14.460
And we've done piecemeal and there's no incentive by either political party to make the reforms
01:08:22.680
And so we're talking border wall when immigration itself, the whole thing needs to be reformed.
01:08:29.700
And the wall, I believe is needed because I mean, there's another caravan coming from Honduras on its way to the U.S.
01:08:41.260
Uh, and you may have seen the, uh, photograph of someone, they know how to drive cars.
01:08:51.220
Drive a car over, over the fence, which means we need to make our fences better, but we definitely
01:08:57.120
need something so that you just can't have, you know, thousands of people that just walk
01:09:04.380
Or they are in one group where as you're focused on the 2000, when the 200 are, you know, a mile
01:09:14.240
So I think the border wall, all of our attention is on that when it should be on comprehensive
01:09:23.520
And by comprehensive, I don't mean, you know, amnesty as a code word.
01:09:27.600
I mean, comprehensive in that you look at the whole picture, legal as well as illegal immigration.
01:09:34.020
And it is impacting American citizens in adverse ways.
01:09:39.560
And the ones that are coming here are being released in Texas and cities, uh, they, they
01:09:45.920
have to be housed somewhere that's housing that American citizens are not going to get
01:09:51.520
because they tend to, uh, in some cases have more benefits, able to get more benefits from
01:09:58.480
certain parts than American citizens that are struggling.
01:10:01.440
I find it insulting that the country that was built by immigrants, we're all immigrants one way
01:10:20.460
Most of us are all immigrants one way or another.
01:10:22.460
At some point, we saw the, the racism against Chinese, against blacks, against the Irish,
01:10:34.500
But we saw the America that it built and it built a country because those people came
01:10:43.720
here wanting a promise to be Americans, be Americans.
01:10:52.820
I shouldn't say tons, maybe 5% of the American population is somebody who said, I don't want
01:11:05.320
If you come here and say, I can make you better.
01:11:08.860
It's, it's to, to accuse conservatives or to confuse people who say, look, I need people
01:11:15.400
to watch this border because there's bad things happening.
01:11:18.400
To say that they are racist somehow or xenophobic when, when you're, when you're talking to
01:11:25.640
a group of people who say books and people are the same.
01:11:41.860
But as long as epithets can be used to intimidate people and silence them, then they'll be hurled.
01:11:49.240
And I think that in some cases, the reaction should be to embrace the epithet, just laugh
01:11:58.440
I thought, um, I saw, uh, I saw somebody, I won't address who the two candidates are.
01:12:06.820
Um, but I saw somebody, uh, and they had such a natural sense of humor.
01:12:13.740
Just, they were just natural and a really natural, almost infectious laugh.
01:12:21.500
And one person is, is looking and saying, they're saying, oh, that person's gonna, that person
01:12:26.800
will do well against Donald Trump because they'll bash him.
01:12:30.120
The other person is, uh, is they're not talking about.
01:12:34.640
And I thought if the other person runs against Donald Trump and Donald Trump does what Donald
01:12:40.540
Trump does and he, you know, he makes up a name for everybody and everything else.
01:12:44.880
If they are honest, if it's not, if it's their personality, you are a kind, gentle, thoughtful
01:12:56.800
Um, if this is the kind of person they are and they laugh and go, uh, that's me, it could
01:13:08.420
That is a problem that we're all taking things so seriously and we're getting so mad and stop
01:13:25.400
I refuse to be silenced because America means a lot to me.
01:13:30.460
And I think about my children, my grandchildren.
01:13:33.720
And when I say my children, I'm not thinking just about my biological children.
01:13:38.640
I'm thinking about all of those thousands of students that I've taught over the years.
01:13:43.220
And, uh, it troubles me what I see taking place.
01:13:47.380
And it troubles me when I see racism against white people.
01:13:50.740
Uh, the argument is that, you know, that white people, uh, can't be victims of racism
01:13:55.800
because, uh, racism only applies to people that don't have power and all whites have privilege.
01:14:01.940
Well, that is really, um, I'll say hogwash because I don't want to say the other word.
01:14:09.160
I think that, um, we need to stand for principles.
01:14:13.700
And if the principle is non-discrimination on the base of race, gender, uh, national origin,
01:14:23.120
Non-discrimination has to be against every group.
01:14:25.660
And so it can't be one group that is safe to discriminate against, you know, that they
01:14:43.240
I mean, he's out of vogue, uh, nowadays and people would prefer to embrace other leaders
01:14:49.360
And if we don't start to turn things around in America, I think that we will see our nation
01:15:02.800
Um, if I had to ask you what the, um, thing that keeps you
01:15:10.500
up at night because we started with urgency, you had a sense of purpose and a sense of
01:15:17.200
So if I said to you, Carol, you're, it's your last week and this is your last interview and
01:15:26.960
you have a chance to talk to Americans and they're actually hear you.
01:15:35.740
My message would be that we need to return to our Judeo-Christian values and principles.
01:15:42.140
I think that a lot of the confusion that we have in America, a lot of the violence and the
01:15:48.420
hopelessness has come as we have become increasingly secular.
01:15:53.780
I think that America is a nation that was founded on Judeo-Christian values and principles.
01:16:00.560
We had the, uh, civic religion, you know, that many people, they were not necessarily,
01:16:05.640
uh, deeply religious, but there were certain values and principles that made us Americans.
01:16:12.640
And if we don't regain our footing, you know, spiritually, uh, um, and which ties into truth
01:16:27.360
Play the average person that is, that hears that.
01:16:37.160
Those Judeo-Christian values were on display with, with fire hoses and dogs.
01:16:43.220
Those Judeo-Christian values have slaughtered people all over the world.
01:16:47.100
I would say that that is, um, again, I mean, I can't find the word, a ladylike word to say
01:16:56.700
There were always Christians that fought for abolition, that, uh, protected, uh, the, uh,
01:17:03.760
slaves and helped them, you know, get to freedom.
01:17:06.460
That educate, set up universities back in the 1800s.
01:17:10.820
And if you look at all the billions of dollars, the philanthropy that has come from white people
01:17:24.540
You know, there, there have been universities going back to the 1800s.
01:17:27.860
They were educating blacks and there were universities in New England that never discriminated
01:17:34.820
And so a lot of the, uh, positive things that have taken place in America, we have always
01:17:41.800
been a nation that we eventually acknowledged their wrongs.
01:17:45.900
But even, um, when those wrongs were there, there were always Christian people who were fighting
01:17:53.620
And they, um, and so for me, I'm glad that I'm an American and, and I'm a descendant of slaves
01:18:07.520
And when I look at divine providence, you know, we don't know why things happen the way
01:18:12.840
they do, but I'm glad that my ancestors made it to America because I believe America is
01:18:21.500
Blacks in America, whether they know it or not, are better off than blacks anywhere else
01:18:29.220
And so, uh, if I look at white people, I see people that have always tried to improve
01:18:38.760
the lot of people around the world and, uh, they've sent missionaries.
01:18:43.540
Uh, I, I go to a church where wealthy white people work in inner city ghetto that they spend
01:18:51.100
their time and their resources working among, uh, in neighborhoods where I would, I am uncomfortable
01:19:00.320
And so, um, I just think that when you have secularism and a devaluation of human life that
01:19:07.340
we see in abortion, uh, uh, the fact that we don't value as Americans life at any stage,
01:19:15.180
we don't, we don't value the life of the unborn or the lives of the elderly or the lives of people
01:19:22.960
that are born, uh, you know, with some type of handicap, I mean, that makes us, we know better
01:19:28.960
than, uh, uh, the people doing, you know, Hitler, you know, and the Nazis, because a lot of what we
01:19:39.200
Let me tell you that I think we're actually worse than the people of Germany that voted
01:19:46.960
A, we have more knowledge, but B, when they found out that, um, the state was committing
01:19:54.380
infanticide, it was killing children because they were different, they stood up and were
01:20:04.400
He said, yes, you're right, we're going to stop that, and then just hid it.
01:20:07.900
But when they found out that we were killing children, they stood up and said, that's an
01:20:20.780
I mean, we're now saying, if you have Down syndrome...
01:20:24.900
I mean, I think we're actually on the path of being worse.
01:20:30.140
And, you know, like, as a Christian, and in America, I think the numbers are still, a majority
01:20:39.640
But, um, if you believe the Bible, and, you know, some people do, some people don't, but
01:20:49.660
In ancient Israel and some of the nations in the Old Testament that were judged, they
01:20:56.440
And if you believe that there is a God throughout the ages, that there is a God, and you're a
01:21:03.600
If you do believe there is a God, why do you think America would get a better deal than
01:21:10.400
So I think we are poised, you know, for God's judgment, and that the only way to save America
01:21:18.860
is to pull back from the nonsense that secularism has brought.
01:21:24.280
And I think that we have become, you know, so intellectual that we are foolish, and that
01:21:31.560
foolishness is seen in the fact that, you know, there's some people saying there's 64
01:21:35.780
genders, uh, and that, uh, that I, that we're not born male or female.
01:21:45.280
And, uh, some of the things that are coming, you know, from the intellectual world, it's
01:21:51.340
And I'm just hoping that there will be a, an awakening, uh, that people, you know, will
01:21:59.060
be able to see through what's happening and that they will pull back and that our young
01:22:03.560
people, that somehow they'll get truth, even if it's not readily available in the public
01:22:09.340
schools, that there will be enough truth that comes through people's intellect that they
01:22:16.640
Uh, and so I think that our nation is headed in the wrong direction.
01:22:21.380
Our churches are failing us because there's so many pastors that will play to public opinion
01:22:27.540
as opposed to the biblical, uh, uh, uh, uh, standards.
01:22:33.980
And, um, and as a consequence, we're worse off because of that.
01:22:41.460
They're afraid they'll lose their job or they'll be punished the way you were punished, you
01:22:46.240
know, by the, by a lot of the people in the mainstream or ostracized.
01:23:01.400
But, um, for people who are followers of Jesus Christ, you know, he tells us that we're going
01:23:06.360
to be persecuted and none of us should think that we're going to get a better deal.
01:23:10.440
In fact, we're supposed to count it as joy when we are persecuted.
01:23:14.680
I'm still working on that part, counting it as joy.
01:23:19.560
But, you know, like I refuse to be intimidated and, you know, people want to laugh at me.
01:23:24.400
If they want to laugh at you, then let's laugh with them.
01:23:28.160
But, uh, at the end of the day, I think that truth will stand and that we need to keep doing
01:23:33.520
what we are doing because there are people that have ears to hear.
01:23:40.780
And, uh, to the extent that we keep talking, other people will start talking and will start
01:23:47.200
And what I want, like my whole thing now, my brand is Be The People.
01:23:57.500
And it was the title of a book that I published in 2011, Be The People, A Call to Reclaim America's
01:24:04.740
I thought that book was going to change the world.
01:24:08.460
And it was, it was supposed to awaken the American public.
01:24:11.820
And they were supposed to do something different than elect Barack Obama to a second term.
01:24:19.020
But, um, it's all about awakening the we, the people mentioned in the preamble of the
01:24:25.420
Constitution to awaken us because we are responsible for everything around us.
01:24:31.460
In America, we elect the, uh, politicians, all of those policies, including abortion, um,
01:24:41.140
And so if we don't want to pay for it, then we need to stop electing politicians that, um,
01:24:47.260
that have allowed or putting in place policies that run counter to our core values and principles.
01:24:53.820
You said, um, a couple of times now that, um, you just think that maybe people intellect or
01:25:04.740
I used to believe the first line, first paragraph, we hold these truths to be self-evident.
01:25:13.120
I don't think there is anything as self-evident truth.
01:25:16.280
Uh, I can go to China and I can talk to the people in the rice paddies who have been oppressed
01:25:20.620
for generations and say, Hey, by the way, should you have the right to life, liberty,
01:25:25.800
And I think a lot of them would say no, because they've never experienced it.
01:25:36.860
So, but what I'm asking you is, um, you said Judeo-Christian values and principles.
01:25:46.740
Those are, those are basic things that are not being taught anymore.
01:25:53.020
The reason the political left silences, uh, voices like yours and mine and people that
01:25:58.520
are more conservative is that they know that if those things are taught, they lose the advantage
01:26:06.060
And the only reason that the political left seems to be winning the cultural war is that
01:26:11.020
they have to strip everyone else of their rights and silence them because if the truth were
01:26:15.620
known, even if the truth were known about president Trump and his successes, like he's been
01:26:20.880
enormously successful in a number of different areas, especially African-American, you would
01:26:29.040
And so they told the truth about what president Trump has accomplished.
01:26:40.640
On the bad things that Obama did, he would be wild.
01:26:44.260
Well, the thing about it is, uh, the left's ability to maintain power depends on keeping
01:26:54.340
And it's up to us to, you know, educate as many people as we can to counter that.
01:26:59.640
But if people ever start thinking, if there's ever an awakening in America where people are,
01:27:05.900
the scales fall off their eyes, they're able to see, then it's over for the political left
01:27:16.180
And I, I, I, it's not a Democrat Republican thing.
01:27:19.520
It's like the elites, uh, of both political parties get together and they decide what they
01:27:24.800
want and they are working against the American people.
01:27:27.200
Carol, I don't know why we haven't spent more time together.
01:27:44.300
Just a reminder, I'd love you to rate and subscribe to the podcast and pass this on to a friend