The Glenn Beck Program - Ep 21 ｜ Dr. Carol Swain ｜ The Glenn Beck Podcast

00:00:00.140 Today, a one-on-one on stage 19 with an amazing person.

00:00:07.920 This woman was born and raised in abject poverty in rural Virginia. 1.00

00:00:13.640 She is the second of 12 that were crowded into a shack without any running water.

00:00:20.260 Her earliest views of the world were pretty hopeless and desperate.

00:00:24.760 But even as a little black girl in Virginia, she knew she had a mission.

00:00:31.800 Her story is one of the most fascinating American success stories that I have heard.

00:00:37.300 Through hard work, she earned degree after degree after degree from Yale, the University of North Carolina, and she elevated herself in the world.

00:00:45.220 She became a professor at Princeton University, Duke, Vanderbilt, the girl in the shack.

00:00:52.020 She's a lifetime member of the James Madison Society.

00:00:56.100 That's an international community of scholars affiliated with the James Madison program in American ideals and institutions at Princeton University.

00:01:05.080 She has won so many different awards and honors and degrees.

00:01:10.160 She's been name-dropped by the Supreme Court two times, once by Justice Anthony Kennedy and again by Justice Sandra Day O'Connor.

00:01:17.740 She has authored or edited nine different books.

00:01:21.500 She's always working on something.

00:01:23.360 She's just started a brand new podcast, and she has a new book coming out.

00:01:28.040 Her book, The New White Nationalism, its challenge to integration, was nominated for a Pulitzer Prize.

00:01:38.040 That's cool, but what's really amazing is it came out in the early 2000s, and it pretty much predicted what we're going through now.

00:01:48.860 Our guest, our American success story, is a natural-born rebel, and about as American as it gets.

00:01:57.960 It is an honor to sit with you.

00:02:14.300 I feel like I'm talking to an American icon and somebody who perhaps knows America from so many different sides that most people don't know.

00:02:29.840 I mean, you went from poverty to Ivy League professor, and I'm not sure which one was worse, but you have lived the dream.

00:02:39.120 Can we start with your childhood?

00:02:41.160 I have lived the American dream.

00:02:44.660 I was born into a family.

00:02:47.740 My mother had a 10th grade education, my father, 3rd grade, and they were separated and divorced.

00:02:57.820 I don't remember them living together.

00:03:00.420 I had a stepfather, and my family grew to 12 children, 5 girls and 7 boys.

00:03:08.840 And for a while, we lived in a two-room shack.

00:03:13.140 We were poorer than the other poor people around us.

00:03:19.860 What was your outlook on life then?

00:03:24.020 I was always the odd one.

00:03:29.500 And as a child, I remember feeling like a participant observer.

00:03:35.540 Like, I was always watching my family, and I was very shy.

00:03:39.380 And my mother said I would be hiding behind furniture in the corner, watching everyone, peering out.

00:03:47.500 And it took me many, many years to get over my shyness.

00:03:51.820 In fact, I became a university professor during the time I was at Princeton.

00:03:56.220 I was still quite shy.

00:03:57.680 And then I would try to write out everything I was going to say for class and try to read it.

00:04:05.560 And so you could imagine what that was like.

00:04:08.460 So you were—what about your other 11 siblings?

00:04:13.940 Are any of them successful like you?

00:04:17.160 Well, not in the same way.

00:04:19.180 Right.

00:04:19.660 We all dropped out of school after the 8th grade.

00:04:22.300 No one among my siblings.

00:04:24.580 All of us.

00:04:26.140 I mean, if you reached 8th grade—I reached 8th grade.

00:04:32.060 I started the 9th.

00:04:34.460 And it was poverty that caused us to drop out.

00:04:39.200 Because you had to go work?

00:04:41.360 I got married at 16.

00:04:43.660 Wow.

00:04:44.860 And it wasn't that uncommon in the South.

00:04:48.640 And, you know, there are parts of my story that I probably don't want to get into because there was a period.

00:04:53.540 But if you—maybe I can get into it.

00:04:57.080 There was a period in my early teens when I studied with Jehovah's Witnesses, and they were saying the world would come to an end in 1975.

00:05:07.180 Wow.

00:05:07.620 And I believed them.

00:05:08.980 Really?

00:05:09.320 And I can't say that that wasn't a factor in my decision to get married at 16 because I was thinking that I wouldn't have time to grow up and have children.

00:05:22.700 But it was the poverty at home that made me feel like I needed to get out of that situation, and marriage was the only way I saw out.

00:05:33.420 But—and I believed at the time—there were lots of things I believed that were not true.

00:05:37.700 I believed that you had to be rich to go to college.

00:05:40.200 I did not understand scholarships.

00:05:42.500 I did not understand that, you know, by being smart, and if you studied and you applied yourself, you'd be able to get a scholarship.

00:05:49.840 And when I say you would understand the part maybe about me believing the Jehovah's Witnesses, I know that, you know, that you're a spiritual person.

00:05:59.520 And so I've always been spiritual in some sense, and I've always felt that there was something I was supposed to do.

00:06:09.820 Even as a child, with my being different, I had a sense of urgency.

00:06:14.700 And as a young adult, you know, I married, I had my children, never knew I would go to college.

00:06:21.220 I had that unease because I've always felt that there was something I was supposed to do.

00:06:26.440 I went through a period of suicide gestures.

00:06:29.680 I'd take bottles of pills, and always I was very successful at getting rescued. 0.99

00:06:37.560 And at one point, I told a medical doctor that I was afraid that he would think I was too stupid to kill myself. 0.98

00:06:45.780 And so—how many failures can you have, right? 1.00

00:06:50.300 I know, right, yeah.

00:06:51.060 And so I made sure that he knew that if I was really trying, I could.

00:07:00.800 They call those suicide gestures.

00:07:03.220 Yes.

00:07:03.960 So how did you go from—how did you go from dropout, married at 16, to college professor, Princeton, Yale?

00:07:18.720 Well, first of all, you know, I don't know, you know, who will hear or see this podcast, but I do know that I felt trapped.

00:07:29.960 I felt that things were very hopeless, and I had no clue that there was a future awaiting me, that I would go to college, that I would have the success that I have now, that I would overcome my shyness.

00:07:42.500 And so I think that people should be encouraged, you know, when they are struggling, because they don't have a clue as to what God may do in their lives and through them.

00:07:53.940 So that's part of the message, but—

00:07:56.920 Wait, wait, wait, let me stop here for a second.

00:07:59.980 When I was young, I had a God experience, I was about eight, and I felt sure that my life had a purpose.

00:08:13.460 I just knew it.

00:08:14.720 And that both blessed me and vexed me.

00:08:24.420 It gave me some arrogance younger and made me more sure of myself than I should have been.

00:08:34.020 And it has blessed me because I felt like you do a sense of urgency.

00:08:42.860 There's something that I must do.

00:08:46.500 Well, I mean, I can say that there were times that I felt special, but I really didn't understand it.

00:08:56.200 And then when I started college and I took my psychology class, I read about delusions of grandeur as a psychological condition.

00:09:06.700 Right.

00:09:07.000 And I diagnosed myself as someone that could be leading in that direction.

00:09:13.180 And so—

00:09:14.000 But no, I never fit, and I always felt that sense of urgency.

00:09:21.080 And I've always been able to look at the world and see things that other people couldn't see.

00:09:25.940 And so we are kindred spirits in that way, I think.

00:09:29.260 And when I—

00:09:31.320 But is that what—is that what—is that what kind of pushed you, the extra?

00:09:36.000 No, no.

00:09:36.420 And I can tell you that I hung out with Jehovah's Witnesses in my teens.

00:09:41.000 Mm-hmm.

00:09:41.700 And by the time I was 20, I left them completely, and I left religion completely.

00:09:46.500 I would not have anything to do with organized religion.

00:09:50.000 Mm-hmm.

00:09:50.340 But—

00:09:52.340 Just so people know, we prayed before we went on the air.

00:09:55.980 You're a deeply religious woman.

00:09:58.360 Yes.

00:09:58.800 And is it okay to say we prayed in Jesus' name?

00:10:01.800 Yes, it is.

00:10:02.680 It's mine, yeah.

00:10:04.600 I can tell you that by the time I was in my late teens, early 20s, I was really embarrassed

00:10:14.120 because I did not have a high school diploma, and I didn't even know about the GED program.

00:10:23.700 And back then, when you had a child, you had to put down the highest age the mother completed 0.79

00:10:28.500 in school.

00:10:29.640 Mm-hmm.

00:10:29.960 And I think for the first child, I may have put the ninth or tenth.

00:10:34.900 I was lying.

00:10:36.300 And so for the second child, I probably put the eleventh, but I was making up stuff because

00:10:40.420 I was so embarrassed.

00:10:41.380 And around the time I was 19, I saw an article about the high school equivalency program,

00:10:47.960 GED, that I could get a high school equivalency.

00:10:51.620 And when I checked on the program, I learned that in Virginia, you had to wait until your

00:10:56.800 high school class would have graduated or whatever it was, I had to wait until I was 20 or it was

00:11:05.060 probably 20.

00:11:06.320 And I got the high school equivalency.

00:11:08.900 But the turning point in my life, there were two people.

00:11:13.440 One was a medical doctor that I looked up and contacted about two years ago.

00:11:19.120 And it turns out that he was 25 and I was, you know, 20 or late teens and 20 when he was my doctor.

00:11:29.460 But and I was doing the suicide gestures and I had, you know, taken a bottle of pills.

00:11:35.080 And I remember him telling me that I was attractive, that I was intelligent.

00:11:40.820 I could do more of my life.

00:11:42.580 And I was stunned because no one had told me that I was attractive.

00:11:48.300 My siblings call me fish eyes and frankincense nine because I have a scar here.

00:11:53.620 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:11:55.220 And so I always had a beautiful woman.

00:11:59.140 Thank you.

00:11:59.640 But I had that complex because I saw myself through the eyes of my siblings and they had plenty of names.

00:12:08.040 But that medical doctor and he was white.

00:12:12.820 And he said that to me.

00:12:16.980 And then I remembered that there was a time when I was smart in school.

00:12:20.620 I was smart.

00:12:21.220 Like we missed lots of days of school.

00:12:24.020 One year, my siblings and I missed 80 of 180 days.

00:12:29.160 And the reason we missed so many days is that we lived out in the country.

00:12:32.840 We did not have snowshoes.

00:12:35.120 We did not have warm coats.

00:12:37.080 And so if the weather was too cold or if it snowed and the snow was deep, we stayed home till the snow melted.

00:12:45.200 Wow.

00:12:46.600 And there were some winters when there was a lot of snow on the ground.

00:12:50.940 But whenever we showed up at school, my older sister and I, we would make A's or B's and we weren't there.

00:12:59.360 You know, it was like we could just walk in after having missed a lot of school and still do really well.

00:13:06.920 And so I knew I was smart and that and I got attention, you know, from the teachers because I was smart.

00:13:24.920 So it was the doctor that told you that you could have better than this.

00:13:30.500 You said there were two people.

00:13:30.920 He said I was intelligent.

00:13:32.280 I was attractive.

00:13:33.880 I could do more with my life.

00:13:34.980 But in 1975, that was the world, that was the year Jehovah's Witnesses said the world would end.

00:13:45.300 And life as I knew it ended in 1975.

00:13:49.700 So they were right.

00:13:51.120 My world ended in 1975.

00:13:53.600 At that time, I had three children.

00:13:55.820 And I had, I have two sons and I had a daughter.

00:14:01.700 My daughter died of a crib death.

00:14:05.200 I got a high school equivalency.

00:14:07.760 I got my high school equivalency.

00:14:10.060 I took a job outside the home.

00:14:12.400 I filed for divorce.

00:14:14.560 And I left Jehovah's Witnesses. 1.00

00:14:16.680 I think I left them the year before.

00:14:18.280 But all of that happened.

00:14:19.420 And so life as I knew it changed.

00:14:21.940 And I was working in a garment factory.

00:14:24.620 And that year, I believe I had seven jobs.

00:14:28.860 They were hiring that year.

00:14:30.420 Wow.

00:14:31.320 They were dead-end jobs, you know, like selling Avon, you know, working fast food for half a day.

00:14:40.200 Working.

00:14:40.680 And I worked the longest in the garment factory, but working in a nursing home. 0.75

00:14:46.460 And in that nursing home, there was an African orderly from Sierra Leone.

00:14:51.940 And he said, I go to college with a lot of people.

00:14:55.220 They're not as smart as you are.

00:14:56.740 You ought to go to college.

00:14:58.540 And then I checked and learned that I could go to college with a high school equivalency.

00:15:02.880 And I started, I enrolled in Virginia Western Community College.

00:15:08.200 I wanted to do commercial art.

00:15:11.060 I was told to be practical.

00:15:12.880 And so I took business.

00:15:14.020 And I struggled through and got my first degree in business.

00:15:17.280 And to show you the hand of God, I was a work-study student and working 10 hours a week in the library.

00:15:27.060 The regular employees, a lot of times they would not show up.

00:15:29.840 And so there would be a crisis.

00:15:31.120 Who's going to work at night?

00:15:32.380 I would always say yes.

00:15:33.840 And they eventually, not long after I started, created a full-time job for me, 40 hours a week, nights and weekends.

00:15:43.120 And I used that job.

00:15:44.740 I graduated within the two years to get my degree in business.

00:15:49.020 And I struggled with math and things that if you don't show up in school, you just can't wing it because of the concepts.

00:15:56.880 But I got my two-year degree.

00:16:00.700 I started applying for jobs in business and was told I needed a four-year degree.

00:16:07.820 And then I did what any bright person would have done.

00:16:13.580 I got the college catalog of the nearest four-year school, which was Ronald College in Salem, Virginia.

00:16:20.260 I went through the catalog looking for all the fields that had the least amount of math, and I found criminal justice.

00:16:27.880 And so I got my bachelor's degree in criminal justice.

00:16:32.600 But I also made a decision, and I made the decision that I was going to graduate with honors.

00:16:38.800 I had made the dean's list a couple of times at the community college because when I first started, I was making C's and I was not putting forth a lot of effort.

00:16:46.740 Anything that didn't involve math, it was easy for me.

00:16:50.600 And so I could make a C without effort.

00:16:53.060 Once I started putting in effort, then I was making, you know, A's and B's, and I was gaining confidence.

00:16:59.120 But when I was applying for jobs in business, I realized I didn't have much to put in where they had places for awards and accolades.

00:17:09.660 I did not have any data for those places in the application.

00:17:16.740 So I was thinking in terms of a good job.

00:17:19.880 I wanted a good job, and I thought I needed stuff to put on that application.

00:17:24.620 So I checked out books on how to make A's in college, how to take S.A. exams, how to take objective tests, and I applied those principles.

00:17:33.600 And my first semester at the four-year college, I had a 3.7 average.

00:17:37.680 When I graduated, by then I'd taken my math and sciences.

00:17:42.420 I had a 3.5 over that, and I graduated magna cum laude, working 40 hours a week.

00:17:48.620 Wow.

00:17:49.060 Nights and weekends in the community college library.

00:17:52.460 Wow.

00:17:53.820 And how much debt did you have?

00:17:55.320 When I graduated with my Ph.D., I had $25,000 worth of debt, and I actually started a scholarship at Roanoke College where I got my bachelor's degree, and it's called the Constance J. Hamler Scholarship.

00:18:11.280 And Constance J. Hamler was one of my teachers at the community college.

00:18:15.400 She was black, and she was married to one of the town morticians, the best black mortician. 0.66

00:18:24.600 So she was the wealthiest person I knew, right?

00:18:27.960 And she passed away.

00:18:30.480 She died of cancer.

00:18:32.980 And so the scholarship was named after her, but when I started Roanoke College, I had hoped to get an academic scholarship.

00:18:44.280 And this was the early 80s, 1980, and Affirmative Action had teeth then.

00:18:50.500 I mean, at least I thought it did.

00:18:52.560 And so I thought, you know, by being a high-achieving black student that I could get an academic scholarship.

00:18:59.360 And I remember talking with the financial aid office before I started because I didn't want to keep borrowing money.

00:19:06.020 I was working full-time, so I was not poor.

00:19:08.920 They gave me some scholarship help, but it was not enough.

00:19:12.260 I had to borrow part of the money.

00:19:15.220 So as I remember the conversation, the financial aid officer told me that if I had a certain GPA that I could get a scholarship.

00:19:25.420 Well, then I had a 3.7 after the first semester, so I showed up, you know, asking for a scholarship.

00:19:32.120 And I was told that the money was gone.

00:19:35.520 And then the next year I showed up, and I can't remember what I was told, but finally, someone said, no blacks have ever contributed money to Roanoke College, and some of the money has restrictions.

00:19:46.960 And at that point, I said, well, I mean, this is, it was just being honest.

00:19:53.220 And at that time, there was probably 20 blacks, and most of them were on the basketball team or on the sports team.

00:20:03.980 And at that time, I said to myself, someday I'm going to start a scholarship at Roanoke College.

00:20:11.520 But I was thinking down the road, you know, someday I would have money.

00:20:14.980 I was going to start this scholarship.

00:20:16.860 Well, in the middle of the night, it occurred to me how I could do it.

00:20:21.720 And so I thought about Constance Hamler and starting a scholarship in her honor.

00:20:28.360 And I researched it.

00:20:30.720 I was working at the library, you know, how to do a proposal.

00:20:33.560 So I did a proposal to start the scholarship.

00:20:35.940 I went to her, a widower, and he was excited about it.

00:20:45.340 Then I went to the president of Roanoke College and told him that I'd spoken with Mr. Hamler.

00:20:49.580 Mr. Hamler would like to have a scholarship at Roanoke College in honor of his deceased wife.

00:20:55.000 And the president, Norm Fentel, says, I know the Fentels.

00:20:59.940 I love the Fentels.

00:21:00.980 That's a brilliant idea.

00:21:02.420 He called in his development people, and he said, I like this idea, make it happen.

00:21:08.960 They were quite upset because they had a capital campaign,

00:21:13.340 and they did not think that they would be able to raise much money for the scholarship,

00:21:19.000 and that was a distraction.

00:21:20.380 I believe we raised maybe, I don't know if we raised $100,000 in the first month,

00:21:28.240 but all I know is the scholarship is endowed.

00:21:31.300 The last time I checked, it had over $500,000 in the endowment,

00:21:35.600 and it supports seven, eight black minority students because it's open to all minority students a year.

00:21:43.960 They get $2,000 or $3,000.

00:21:46.620 It was meant to be an academic scholarship, and that was my whole purpose was to have an academic scholarship for minorities.

00:21:55.660 Someone made the comment that they didn't want a scholarship that would never be awarded,

00:21:59.760 and it became a need-based scholarship, which it is now.

00:22:03.420 But that I've always gone places, seen something that needed to be done, waited for other people to do it,

00:22:14.500 and then had to step in because no one was doing the thing.

00:22:19.960 So you left college.

00:22:21.640 Mm-hmm.

00:22:24.240 I never left college.

00:22:25.480 Yeah, I know, you never did, but you could not have been, you were already living a life you couldn't have imagined five years before, right?

00:22:36.180 At which stage?

00:22:37.360 You're graduating summa cum laude and...

00:22:40.400 Magna cum laude.

00:22:41.620 Sorry.

00:22:42.360 But here's the other part is, my talent is art.

00:22:48.300 Like, I'm a right-brain person in a left-brain world, and I wanted to do art.

00:22:54.100 And I would say that people steered me, like I was steered into being practical, so I did business.

00:23:00.460 I chose criminal justice because it had the least amount of math,

00:23:03.840 and I knew that I would be good in anything that didn't have a lot of math.

00:23:07.140 When I was graduating with my four-year degree, I knew I did not want a criminal justice career.

00:23:17.020 So I thought I would work for the government.

00:23:19.740 And so I would get a master's degree, and I would become a civil servant.

00:23:26.700 And while I was in graduate school, the professors urged me to apply for a Ph.D. program to become a professor.

00:23:35.160 I did not want that.

00:23:36.580 I kept applying for jobs.

00:23:38.200 I could not get any of the jobs that I applied for, even though I was well-known in the city.

00:23:43.060 I had worked with business people on the scholarship committee.

00:23:47.580 I could not get a job, and it was the 1980s, so there was affirmative action. 0.52

00:23:53.300 I was an honor student, and I could not get a job.

00:23:56.520 So there I see the hand of God that I was sort of steered.

00:23:59.820 I applied to graduate school because I couldn't get a job.

00:24:03.940 And I got admitted to Duke and the University of North Carolina.

00:24:09.560 No, I did not get admitted to Duke.

00:24:12.300 I applied to Duke and the University of North Carolina.

00:24:16.160 And at Duke, the graduate director called me and told me that Duke was a rich, white boy's school

00:24:23.380 and that I would be happier at Carolina.

00:24:26.320 And so at that point, I made them give me back my application fee, which they did,

00:24:31.060 and I went to Carolina, where I was happier.

00:24:34.200 Wow.

00:24:34.940 So why is it, Carol, that—and we'll continue with the story here in a second—

00:24:40.080 but why is it that you have come from real poverty, real struggle, doors shut in your face?

00:24:49.240 You're happy.

00:24:51.380 Why are so many people not willing to look at your story and say,

00:24:58.280 I think I can do that, too.

00:25:01.200 Why are so many people of all races so miserable about, 1.00

00:25:08.840 I can't make it in this, the world's against me?

00:25:11.780 Stories like mine don't get told often enough to the people that need to hear it.

00:25:17.580 And so even this podcast, the people that maybe could be encouraged by it,

00:25:21.800 a lot of them won't hear, you know, see this or hear it.

00:25:26.240 And when I think about why was I different, I've always believed in the American dream.

00:25:35.240 And so even though—

00:25:36.520 Even when you're living in a shack.

00:25:38.000 I mean, my mother had that Protestant work ethic. 0.99

00:25:41.480 She was a stay-at-home mother in an abusive situation with an alcoholic husband,

00:25:48.080 and she had her own struggles, but she would not take—she would not sign us up for free books or for free lunches

00:25:58.940 because that was like welfare.

00:26:00.800 She would not take it then.

00:26:02.340 She would take it later.

00:26:03.700 I mean, a few years later, she moved to the city and she would take it.

00:26:07.660 But at that particular time, you know, we were not taking welfare.

00:26:12.840 So it meant when I was going to school, I would have to do my lessons before I left school because I couldn't—didn't have the books.

00:26:22.040 So I think that America is and has always been a land of tremendous opportunity.

00:26:29.200 And what makes me different from a lot of the young people that I see and maybe some of the older people

00:26:35.360 is that I lived, I guess, so isolated that I didn't get all those messages that the world was stacked against me

00:26:42.120 because of my color or because of my race or because of my poverty.

00:26:46.620 I always believed that if I worked hard enough, I could be successful.

00:26:50.160 And when I started Ronald College, my advisor, his name is Dr. Charles Hill, was a conservative.

00:27:00.740 And the black students met me.

00:27:04.000 They immediately gave me the list of all the racist professors not to take. 0.88

00:27:08.480 Dr. Hill was on the list of professors not to take because they were racist.

00:27:12.800 But I've always done the opposite of what everyone else did.

00:27:15.840 And so my attitude was, yeah, I'll show him.

00:27:20.300 So I signed up for his class, met a B-plus in the first class.

00:27:24.700 He told me I almost met an A.

00:27:26.540 Internally, I thought, yeah, he just didn't want to give me an A the first time.

00:27:31.420 I took several classes with him, and he was conservative.

00:27:35.480 So I read Thomas Soyle, Glenn Lowry, Edward Banfield, Milton Friedman.

00:27:48.260 Just I was exposed to conservative thought.

00:27:52.200 And I don't know if I would have been Marxist had I been exposed to Marxist thought.

00:27:59.480 But it turned out I ended up with a professor that was conservative.

00:28:02.400 And I remember him telling me at some point, he said, you know, you're a Republican, don't you?

00:28:06.860 And, you know, like, no, no, no.

00:28:09.080 You know, it took me 40 years later to become one.

00:28:12.320 But I think that it mattered, you know, that to be exposed to the ideas that I was exposed to.

00:28:20.700 But I had something going in because I had that attitude is whatever someone told me I couldn't do, I was going to show them I could.

00:28:27.400 And today, I wish I was more like that person that I was when I was younger, because now I can see all the obstacles.

00:28:37.680 First of all, let me just say this, and I hope you take this in the spirit that it's intended, and I think you will.

00:28:43.260 I put you in the category of Thomas Soyle.

00:28:45.460 I think you are one of the true remarkable intellectual leaders of our time.

00:28:52.100 You were just, I hope you take that in the right way.

00:28:55.280 I thought you were going to tell me I was a credit to my race.

00:28:58.820 No, no.

00:29:00.040 I'm joking. 0.76

00:29:02.280 You know, you're a fine black person.

00:29:06.620 No, I just, Thomas Soyle is just so clear and soft-spoken and just, he's just clear.

00:29:16.580 I admire him enormously.

00:29:18.300 You too.

00:29:18.460 And Walter Williams.

00:29:21.920 Walter Williams has been very supportive of me.

00:29:26.000 Thomas Soyle, I've not been able to reach him.

00:29:29.020 I've never met him.

00:29:30.300 Really?

00:29:30.960 I've written to him, but I've never met him.

00:29:32.620 Really?

00:29:33.140 Maybe you can arrange a meeting.

00:29:34.480 But he's never talked to me either.

00:29:35.820 I'm not smart enough.

00:29:37.000 I'm not smart enough.

00:29:40.780 Okay.

00:29:41.400 Here's what I have.

00:29:42.700 I'm not brilliant.

00:29:43.720 I have common sense, and I think that common sense is in such short supply these days that

00:29:51.340 it will take you far.

00:29:53.200 And then I had, you know, I just believed in America.

00:29:55.640 I have a new understanding in the last 10 years of the scripture that the, I can't remember

00:30:08.880 the exact word now.

00:30:09.780 I can't think of it.

00:30:10.700 But basically that the foolish will confound the wise because they think they're wise.

00:30:19.740 It's the common sense. 1.00

00:30:21.280 It's the ones that everyone is saying, well, you're an idiot. 1.00

00:30:25.420 Right now, the ones who are wise, they're, they're just off the, they're just off the 1.00

00:30:33.160 farm.

00:30:33.560 They really are. 1.00

00:30:34.340 They're just, they're crazy. 1.00

00:30:36.140 Right. 1.00

00:30:36.700 And it is the people that they mark as foolish that are the ones going, it can't be just me, 0.99

00:30:42.100 right? 0.76

00:30:42.600 Well, I mean, the scripture, I think that I should be able to quote the scripture.

00:30:48.740 I know.

00:30:49.200 I'm ashamed of myself too.

00:30:50.660 We need a Bible in here.

00:30:52.300 I think it's first Corinthians 26 through 29.

00:30:56.280 It's like, it's like one of the scriptures I got, the Lord gave me after I had my conversion

00:31:01.540 experience.

00:31:02.580 And it has to do with, you know, God taking the lowly things to confound the wise, the

00:31:07.800 weak things to confound the mighty, the things that despise.

00:31:12.100 And so that, you know, no one would glory in who they are, I should be able to paraphrase

00:31:19.460 that better too.

00:31:20.440 But yeah, Corinthians talks a lot about the foolishness of the wise. 1.00

00:31:26.020 And they are foolish. 0.98

00:31:26.900 I mean, this whole thing about the bathrooms and we don't, all of a sudden, you know, science 1.00

00:31:33.260 doesn't matter.

00:31:34.980 There's just so many things that, that are true that, that all of a sudden, you know, that

00:31:44.080 with the, you can, your mind can go so far out there that you can't recognize truth.

00:31:50.260 Even when it's right in front of you, even the truth of who you are.

00:31:55.000 When did we, because we crossed the bridge, we crossed the Rubicon at some point, we crossed

00:32:01.740 that bridge and burned it behind us.

00:32:05.140 It seems at what point did you say, it's official.

00:32:12.380 We have, we have entered the postmodern world.

00:32:16.240 We've entered a world where science doesn't matter anymore.

00:32:21.360 I think when they started all the, to me, nonsense about gender pronouns, and I can say 0.67

00:32:28.020 that in academia, as a student, and even as a professor at Princeton and part of my time

00:32:36.100 at Vanderbilt, I was not interested in critical theory and deconstructionism and all of that

00:32:43.220 stuff, the cultural Marxism, I was not interested in it.

00:32:47.200 I should have been.

00:32:48.660 And I regret, because I've had to educate myself on my own about things that matter now.

00:32:54.840 Yeah.

00:32:55.260 But what I see is that the political left, that they had a, they had, they were in for

00:33:04.200 a long-term strategy.

00:33:05.260 And they're much more persistent than conservatives.

00:33:09.120 Yeah.

00:33:09.680 And so that they so clearly infiltrated organizations, like professional organizations, institutions,

00:33:18.560 you know, the news media.

00:33:20.540 And you just need a few people to work that way to the top.

00:33:24.800 And so they were able to implement all of those changes.

00:33:27.200 So it started decades ago.

00:33:30.420 And I think, you know, that's Herbert Macusa, Saul Alinsky, that they were the masterminds

00:33:39.700 behind it.

00:33:40.960 But they have been so successful with their disciples that today at many universities, professors

00:33:49.300 don't say I'm Marxist.

00:33:51.200 They don't, you know, label themselves, but their ideas run the institution.

00:33:56.180 And that's why the political correctness has reached the point where it is.

00:34:02.520 And you have people that have been educated in law schools that say that due process, presumption

00:34:08.360 of innocence, that those things are no longer relevant, that free speech doesn't apply to

00:34:14.040 everyone, only people that have the right ideas.

00:34:17.240 I guess we should have seen it coming.

00:34:19.760 But it seems to have happened suddenly.

00:34:23.100 I think when President Obama was elected, that a lot of the people that shared those leftist

00:34:29.020 ideas, you know, they were able to rise in government and foster a climate where things were such

00:34:41.660 that it was a snowball effect.

00:34:42.920 But I think that his election under, still under cover in many ways while he was in the presidency.

00:34:51.200 But after eight years, the masks have all come off.

00:34:54.640 I mean, now people don't have a problem saying I'm a socialist.

00:34:57.640 When I said the president is, is, has, has said that he thinks the Constitution should be reversed,

00:35:08.380 that it should be, you know, a guarantee of certain things the government must do, not

00:35:13.780 a guarantee of the things that they will not do.

00:35:16.720 He himself admits that he was hanging around Marxists, that he has Marxists and socialist

00:35:21.000 friends.

00:35:21.660 He has Marxists in his own cabinet or in his administration.

00:35:27.800 And I was called a racist.

00:35:29.120 Well, also, do you remember, was his name John Holdren, the science czar, I mean, that

00:35:38.520 he co-authored a book that talked about putting...

00:35:41.760 Sterilence. 0.61

00:35:42.660 Yeah.

00:35:43.120 Drinking water.

00:35:43.800 Yeah.

00:35:44.240 And sterilizing people for population control.

00:35:47.160 There were some other extreme things that were in that document.

00:35:51.080 But if you actually mentioned any of that, all of a sudden you were a conspiracy theorist.

00:35:57.560 Correct.

00:35:57.820 Yeah.

00:35:58.480 Someday, Glenn, you'll be known as a great prophet. 0.96

00:36:03.160 I actually hope not, because those are always killed.

00:36:05.860 Well, they are, but they die for the greater cause, right?

00:36:09.160 But it's, it's amazing, because I said at the time, at some point, they want to embrace

00:36:17.180 it.

00:36:17.720 They want to say, yeah, I am a Marxist, because your capitalist ideas don't work.

00:36:22.760 Right.

00:36:23.140 And they want to.

00:36:23.900 And I said, there are going to come a time where they're just going to take the mask

00:36:27.340 off and say, yeah, I'm a Marxist, I'm a socialist, and we're there now.

00:36:30.840 We are there.

00:36:32.080 And there was a survey maybe three or four years ago that showed like maybe 30 percent

00:36:37.960 of American students thought socialism was a good idea.

00:36:40.900 Well, mostly they don't understand socialism.

00:36:44.480 And in a course that I took that looked at the impact of communism on American political

00:36:49.920 thought, there were a few students that argued that it works.

00:36:54.180 It just hasn't been done right.

00:36:55.400 And so somehow they think that there's a way to do it, that it will be successful, even

00:37:01.820 though throughout history, it's never been successful.

00:37:04.580 That's what the young people believe.

00:37:06.660 And part of the problem is that they're not being fully educated on the Constitution or

00:37:11.900 history.

00:37:12.920 At all.

00:37:13.560 No, they're not.

00:37:14.760 At all.

00:37:15.660 I mean, I look at, I look at the problems. 0.96

00:37:19.400 And look, I grew up a dummy.

00:37:21.720 I didn't.

00:37:22.160 I went back to college when I was 30.

00:37:25.000 I skated through high school.

00:37:27.720 I'd never studied.

00:37:29.100 And I thought I was a bad student.

00:37:30.820 When I got my transcript back, I was an A student, but I was just not interested.

00:37:35.100 Right.

00:37:35.460 At all.

00:37:36.360 And so I went back to school.

00:37:39.460 What little I could afford.

00:37:40.760 I took one class, one semester.

00:37:42.720 That's all I could afford.

00:37:44.960 The professor, Wayne Meeks at Yale University, said to me, he asked me out for lunch because

00:37:51.360 I was arguing with him because I wanted to know why he was telling me not to read the

00:37:57.120 things I was reading.

00:37:58.580 He said, read these things.

00:38:00.360 And I'm so much like you.

00:38:01.740 What were you reading?

00:38:04.000 I was reading.

00:38:05.200 I was reading.

00:38:11.660 Dominic Crossan.

00:38:13.040 OK, you know who Dominic Crossan is?

00:38:14.420 Yeah.

00:38:14.640 OK, I was reading Dominic Crossan and didn't buy into any of it.

00:38:19.080 But I was reading it because I was reading all these people who disagreed with each other.

00:38:22.920 Right.

00:38:23.500 And and he said, don't read it.

00:38:26.200 He'll screw you up.

00:38:27.280 And I said he said, read this.

00:38:29.340 So I came back the next week and I had read what he told me to.

00:38:31.800 And I raised my hand and I asked the same question and he said, Mr. Beck, didn't I tell

00:38:35.940 you not to read Dominic Crossan?

00:38:37.780 I said, yeah, but I don't care what you tell me not to read.

00:38:43.280 I read what you read and we can talk about that.

00:38:45.920 I want to know why is he wrong?

00:38:49.120 Why do you think he's wrong?

00:38:51.560 He said, I'll see you after lunch.

00:38:53.300 I'll see you after school, after class.

00:38:55.260 When were you in school?

00:38:56.360 Where did you go to college?

00:38:58.280 Yale.

00:38:58.680 One class.

00:38:59.000 Oh, you weren't.

00:38:59.860 OK.

00:39:00.340 One class.

00:39:01.340 That's all I could have.

00:39:01.900 I got a divorce.

00:39:03.400 I filed for divorce the first day of college.

00:39:05.740 So I had no more money left.

00:39:07.720 And I could only afford one class.

00:39:10.420 And I just wanted to go for self-education.

00:39:13.740 But anyway, he reached across the table and he said, you know, you belong here.

00:39:18.940 All I needed was what you needed.

00:39:21.520 You just need somebody to say, you can do it.

00:39:24.460 You're smart enough.

00:39:25.400 You're good.

00:39:26.100 And it seems like all...

00:39:28.060 That's what he said to you.

00:39:29.140 Yeah.

00:39:29.540 Uh-huh.

00:39:30.020 Yeah.

00:39:30.440 Because he said, who are you reading?

00:39:31.760 And I said, oh, I'm just, I'm so lost.

00:39:33.720 I'm, you know, reading this and I'm reading that.

00:39:35.520 And I just don't know.

00:39:36.600 And he said, who's guiding you through that?

00:39:38.820 And I said, nobody.

00:39:40.380 I was going to the library and the bookstore.

00:39:42.440 And he said, nobody does that by themselves, you know?

00:39:46.220 And he could see that I was just...

00:39:47.520 It is a journey.

00:39:48.340 It is.

00:39:49.140 And it's a good journey.

00:39:50.480 Right.

00:39:50.800 But you need somebody in your life, like you've had, to say, you're smart enough.

00:39:56.920 Yeah.

00:39:57.140 You can do it.

00:39:57.860 And it seems as though all of society, all of the university experience from the outside,

00:40:07.280 seems as though it's now saying the opposite.

00:40:10.640 You can't make it.

00:40:12.840 You can't get past these hurdles.

00:40:14.640 No, it's telling that to certain groups of people, you know, and what it's doing to people

00:40:20.260 that are, you know, the ones they're training to be the future leaders, is that they're

00:40:26.720 bringing them in and telling them what to think.

00:40:29.740 They're not exposing them to divergent views where they can develop new ideas.

00:40:34.960 They come in and the university is trying to impose a preset group of ideas.

00:40:41.460 I have never seen...

00:40:43.460 I would have never...

00:40:44.400 You said to me 20 years ago, you know, they'll burn books in your lifetime here in America. 1.00

00:40:49.660 I would have said you were nuts. 0.98

00:40:51.260 Or pulled down monuments. 0.99

00:40:52.900 Yeah.

00:40:53.500 Yeah. 1.00

00:40:54.340 You're nuts. 1.00

00:40:56.540 We're there now. 1.00

00:40:59.000 So somebody who is...

00:41:01.200 Who says freedom of speech, yeah, but there's a lot of dangerous speech out there.

00:41:06.500 I defend free speech.

00:41:07.700 I do too.

00:41:08.440 I read everything.

00:41:10.820 And I will decide.

00:41:13.320 And I like to read both sides.

00:41:15.360 If I'm convinced of something, I want to read the other side.

00:41:19.640 Tell...

00:41:20.040 Explain why it's not just freedom of speech.

00:41:24.000 It's freedom of thought.

00:41:25.080 It's freedom of questioning.

00:41:27.020 Why is that important?

00:41:29.040 Well, I mean, why is freedom of thought and freedom of questioning important?

00:41:34.900 I just think that for a person to be able to develop critical thought and to come up with new ideas and inventions, you have to be exposed to ideas.

00:41:47.780 And if you're in a situation where you're not allowed to explore or to ask questions, like in college, students could get in trouble for asking the wrong question about...

00:42:00.940 Well, I mean, they just can.

00:42:02.200 And professors could get in trouble for researching the wrong ideas.

00:42:07.420 And I can tell you that 2002...

00:42:09.040 When did that change?

00:42:09.980 I don't know.

00:42:10.420 2002 was when my book, The New White Nationalism, was published.

00:42:15.420 And to get data for that book that I started in the late 1980s while I was at Princeton, during the time I was getting ready to leave, I commissioned interviews of white leaders that were on the extreme to less extreme.

00:42:32.440 But they were...

00:42:33.580 I was interested in white nationalism, you know, white supremacy. 0.68

00:42:39.720 But I commissioned those interviews because I wanted to know how people developed the kinds of thoughts they did.

00:42:49.160 So I had a white interviewer interview people about their childhood.

00:42:54.520 And two of my interviewees were Jewish people with PhDs.

00:42:59.240 And then there was Jared Taylor, who graduated from Yale University and has a degree from the London School of Economics.

00:43:07.060 And these were very articulate people that were not like, you know, the neo-Nazis and the white supremacists.

00:43:17.280 And, you know, out of that study, that's why I called it the new white nationalism. 0.64

00:43:22.800 I saw the rise of the alt-right.

00:43:25.040 I was criticized and condemned for having them interviewed and not attacking them.

00:43:32.120 Like, my interviewer asked them questions and we just recorded what they said.

00:43:36.960 We didn't attack them and argue with them and try to change their minds.

00:43:41.600 We wanted...

00:43:42.160 I wanted to know how they became who they are.

00:43:45.360 Isn't this what...

00:43:46.480 They were saying you were given a form to people that didn't deserve to be heard.

00:43:50.840 This is the same thing that the FBI...

00:43:54.120 You probably know this better than I do.

00:43:57.040 That when they started Psychological Profiles, people said, you don't talk to these mass killers.

00:44:04.580 And they said, we have to talk to these mass killers.

00:44:07.380 We're not excusing them.

00:44:09.160 We have to know what they're thinking because we'd never seen that before.

00:44:15.300 And so we went in, researchers went in and talked to them.

00:44:19.000 And there was this big debate.

00:44:20.800 We know how to put together psychological profiles because of that.

00:44:25.820 Right.

00:44:26.200 If we don't talk to people and stop shutting them up, you're never going to learn what the well of the poison is.

00:44:35.080 Well, I can tell you that part of the conclusion of my book was that white identity and white interests, 0.88

00:44:41.200 I have a paragraph in the concluding chapter, would be the next phase of identity politics in America.

00:44:46.880 And it had to do with the grievance, you know, that the intellectuals felt, that they felt that white people were being discriminated against

00:44:56.060 and that that was against the Constitution and the Civil Rights Act,

00:45:01.100 that Jared Taylor argues that white people need leaders like blacks and Hispanics to speak for their interests.

00:45:08.960 And with the Jewish interviewees, you know, they were pretty upset about affirmative action.

00:45:14.900 One of them has a Ph.D., you know, from Princeton, and he could not get a decent job.

00:45:20.420 And so as white men that were intellectuals, you know, they had grievances over affirmative action.

00:45:28.140 And in that book, I identified some policy issues.

00:45:31.820 Immigration was one. 1.00

00:45:35.460 Racial preferences, concerns about crime were among the issues I identified that a lot of people had grievances about,

00:45:44.220 but they were not being addressed in a way that was satisfying.

00:45:48.040 And it was creating an opening for more extreme voices to step in there and speak because we weren't allowing the discussions to take place.

00:45:59.640 And my philosophy has always been what you don't know can hurt you.

00:46:06.260 And I would rather know who a person is and what they believe than have someone so intimidated that they're not going to open up.

00:46:14.220 They're not going to share their ideas.

00:46:16.320 I think that's far more dangerous when we have political leaders or leaders of institutions,

00:46:21.440 and we don't know who they are because they've learned how to conceal their ideas.

00:46:26.920 And it's dangerous to have a learning environment for students where they cannot ask innocent questions

00:46:33.480 about the realities they see around them without being ostracized and condemned and stigmatized.

00:46:54.540 I see in the Constitution that the government is supposed to ensure domestic tranquility.

00:47:00.120 And I think this is the biggest failure.

00:47:04.940 We're not doing that at all.

00:47:06.360 We're letting Antifa be the moral authority.

00:47:09.800 But it goes beyond that.

00:47:10.960 It goes to what you were saying in your book.

00:47:13.540 We're not addressing issues.

00:47:16.980 Back in 2002, I probably would have read your book.

00:47:19.560 I didn't read it back at the time.

00:47:21.120 But I probably would have read that book and went, come on, it's not that bad.

00:47:24.700 That's what some people said.

00:47:25.900 But some people saw that I was on to something, and they thought the book was, you know, prescient.

00:47:32.360 I think that, I think, and I kind of look for, I mean, I'm a, you know, I'm an optimistic catastrophist.

00:47:40.980 So I always see trouble on the horizon.

00:47:43.360 But I wouldn't have believed, we were healing.

00:47:47.760 I felt we were healing.

00:47:49.040 You know, I knew I was on to something.

00:47:52.040 Yeah.

00:47:53.000 I realized that Jared Taylor, the way he articulated things, that he could point out the racial double standards, and he could say, well, pretty much like multiculturalism, every group can celebrate who they are except white people.

00:48:09.260 Right.

00:48:09.420 And it's okay, you know, people are discriminating against white people, and there are these crimes against white people, and no one's speaking up for white people.

00:48:17.280 I felt like that he was making an argument that had I been white, I might have found him persuasive. 0.98

00:48:24.360 That scared me, because I knew that his arguments would reach young people, and it could be a slippery slope for some of them, that they might start out on the intellectual end and end up, you know, with David Duke and the guy, Pierce, that started the National Alliance.

00:48:45.620 And so I had white leaders, you know, on the spectrum of very extreme to ones that pretty much, I would say, they were like the alt-right.

00:48:59.220 They were not espousing violence against blacks.

00:49:02.520 They were not saying that they—some of them were not white supremacists. 0.98

00:49:07.420 Jared Taylor said he's not a white supremacist, that Asians are smarter than whites.

00:49:12.120 And so he would say that he just goes with the science.

00:49:18.020 And he would argue that when you have diversity, multi-ethnic societies, that it's much harder for them to get along. 0.98

00:49:25.980 And then when Robert Putnam at Harvard produced a study some years ago that pretty much said the same thing, he was kind of embraced by the white nationalists

00:49:35.160 because he found that countries, you know, that had a lot of—pretty much the more homogenous—

00:49:43.920 Yeah.

00:49:44.600 Sweden is a great example.

00:49:46.460 Yeah, they get a lot better, usually.

00:49:49.200 So—but we have done the opposite of listening to you, listening to your book, listening to the warnings, and then listening to people.

00:49:59.440 For example, we have—and this is happening all over the world, not just in America—we are not only not listening,

00:50:08.200 we are now saying if you feel anything, you feel disenfranchised at all, if you're white or if you're not transsexual,

00:50:19.260 you can't talk about transsexual things.

00:50:21.380 You can't.

00:50:21.920 You're not homosexual.

00:50:22.740 You can't talk about that.

00:50:23.860 You're not black. 1.00

00:50:24.460 You can't talk about that.

00:50:25.900 You're not a female. 1.00

00:50:26.800 You don't dare talk about that.

00:50:28.060 But you're putting people in corners to where—and this is the way extremism always happens.

00:50:36.320 But the left is so inconsistent, you know, because with Rachel Dolezal, the white lady that became the head of the NAACP

00:50:45.860 and pretended to be black and took a black name, and then now, you know, she's—I don't know, she's been indicted or—

00:50:52.900 Yeah, she was up on charges for—

00:50:54.640 Welfare for it.

00:50:55.520 She took $80,000 of welfare money.

00:50:59.440 I guess she was all in.

00:51:01.280 But the other thing about her is that when she was a student at Howard, she sued the university for racial discrimination

00:51:08.100 because she said they would not give her a scholarship because she was white. 0.93

00:51:12.140 And I guess she decided if she couldn't beat them, she was going to join them,

00:51:15.300 because then later, you know, she started to pass as black.

00:51:21.060 With Elizabeth Warren, if the left, you know, was consistent, you know, they would hold her to a higher—

00:51:29.900 they would hold her accountable for ethnic fraud because she obviously, you know, gained affirmative action,

00:51:36.940 pretended she was something that she wasn't.

00:51:38.880 And they're not saying anything.

00:51:41.200 Like, they have no standards when it comes to their own, anything that fits their current agenda.

00:51:48.200 Well, you look at the government shutdown over the border,

00:51:51.480 and at the same time, Governor Cuomo of New York is saying,

00:51:55.120 I won't sign the budget for the state of New York until everyone has full, unfettered access to abortions up to the point of birth. 0.80

00:52:05.280 Well, that's so far out of the mainstream.

00:52:07.420 He's holding—he, at the same time, he's holding the state of New York hostage.

00:52:13.240 On the other side of his mouth, he's saying,

00:52:15.180 how dare Donald Trump stand for the wall and hold America hostage?

00:52:20.980 And nobody has a problem with it. 0.99

00:52:23.280 And that's where I think your common sense, you know, we're the foolish, I guess. 0.95

00:52:28.740 I mean, the political—well, do I want to call them the political right, 0.98

00:52:35.260 or do I want to call them Republicans, I'm so disappointed with them that they cave,

00:52:41.920 and they fall into every leftist trap.

00:52:44.860 And as far as a person being white, you're going to be called a racist,

00:52:49.960 regardless of what you do, because that's an epithet used to silence someone.

00:52:54.300 And so if you believe in walls and borders, if you believe in the rule of law,

00:53:01.320 you're going to be called names.

00:53:03.460 And so I think that it's important for people to have principled reasons for what they do,

00:53:09.320 but to realize that that's a political strategy to call someone a name.

00:53:14.460 And I was very disheartened when McCarthy went along with stripping Representative King

00:53:27.460 of his committee assignments because of an allegation that he had said something supportive of white supremacy

00:53:34.800 and white nationalism without their actually looking at what he said

00:53:39.500 and the fact that he gave a 56-minute interview, you know, with the New York Times.

00:53:45.320 They took one sentence out of that interview where he was talking about Western civilization

00:53:49.640 and its merits and used that to paint him as a white supremacist.

00:53:56.380 I believe that if they had just waited overnight for him to get a statement out,

00:54:00.740 then it would have blown over.

00:54:03.760 We are in such a bad place, though.

00:54:06.380 The day that really happened, I said to my staff,

00:54:10.200 I know Steve King.

00:54:12.800 And we're not buddies.

00:54:13.740 I don't call him up all the time.

00:54:15.200 But I know him.

00:54:16.200 And I've had conversations with him.

00:54:17.920 Right.

00:54:18.240 And I've never seen anything like that.

00:54:21.900 You know, you can think back.

00:54:24.740 You hear something.

00:54:25.500 He supported Herman Cain, I think.

00:54:26.680 Yeah, yeah.

00:54:27.520 I mean, you think back and you're like, oh, wait a minute.

00:54:31.840 I do remember none of that with Steve King.

00:54:35.320 The day that happened, I went to my staff and I said, call Steve up.

00:54:41.880 Ask him.

00:54:42.580 I'm not going to take a side.

00:54:45.600 I'm going to say, I've known you.

00:54:47.340 I can't believe this.

00:54:49.600 Lay out what's happening.

00:54:50.580 Please tell me what's going on.

00:54:52.780 And everyone said, no, he's been abandoned by everyone.

00:55:00.560 You will be alone.

00:55:02.840 And there's this piece of you that says, wait a minute.

00:55:07.040 I don't want to be alone because then I'm just, I don't know.

00:55:10.480 I don't know the answer.

00:55:11.480 Wait, wait.

00:55:12.100 I went on Twitter immediately and said the Republicans should have defended his

00:55:16.520 rights of free speech.

00:55:17.840 Yes.

00:55:18.900 Because even with the sentence that they were using,

00:55:22.220 it was clearly a sentence.

00:55:24.120 And I said, they should have given him time to explain.

00:55:26.820 Or at least even contained the rest of the sentence.

00:55:29.560 It left off the first part of the sentence.

00:55:32.440 I didn't even know at the time what he had completely said.

00:55:35.740 But I mean, like even with the Kavanaugh hearing, for a while, it seems like the

00:55:40.980 Judiciary Committee, they didn't know what to do because it was women involved. 1.00

00:55:44.680 It was obvious to me what they could have done and what they should have done.

00:55:51.360 The first, they should have trotted out female members of Congress that were Republican, 1.00

00:55:56.680 and they should have defended the judicial process, due process, rule of law.

00:56:03.220 Those principles and those principles have nothing to do with whether the person in front

00:56:07.600 of you is guilty or innocent.

00:56:10.060 It has to do with, in America, we, a nation of laws, we had these processes, we had this

00:56:17.020 constitution.

00:56:18.120 All they have to do is defend the constitution, and yet they go along with the political left.

00:56:22.980 But people will say that this isn't a court of law.

00:56:26.360 This was a law of public opinion.

00:56:28.460 This is a court of public opinion.

00:56:29.680 And they're wrong.

00:56:32.140 And if it's a court of public opinion, tradition and conservatives will always lose because

00:56:39.920 the media, for the most part, is controlled by the political left and the cultural Marxists.

00:56:45.840 And so everything is stacked against anything that's traditional.

00:56:50.480 And so I think that the most important thing that we can do as Americans for our young people

00:56:55.740 and for ourselves is to argue for our constitution.

00:57:00.280 You know, that's our rule book.

00:57:03.020 And when it comes to the judicial process, the rule of law, that we have to stand on that.

00:57:12.200 And we have to stand for the principles outside of the rule of law.

00:57:17.420 I was shocked that I came home and my wife, she's not real political. 1.00

00:57:24.520 She was following that.

00:57:26.180 And I came home and she said, almost in tears, what's going to happen to our son?

00:57:32.680 What's going to happen to our son? 1.00

00:57:34.140 You don't think that in 20 years he's going to say something stupid? 1.00

00:57:38.800 He's going to do something stupid on Facebook? 1.00

00:57:41.380 And that one thing taken out of context and no chance of defending yourself on it? 1.00

00:57:46.900 Well, wait.

00:57:47.800 What's going to happen to people?

00:57:48.640 With the Republicans, with the Roy Moore accusations, again, like, I don't care what people say about

00:57:55.540 me because once, you know, you're over 60, it is what it is.

00:58:01.680 But I defended Roy Moore.

00:58:06.080 I defended his right to due process and the presumption of innocence.

00:58:11.200 And I knew that if they allowed these women to step forward with vague memories of things

00:58:18.420 they said happened, you know, 40 years ago when they were teenagers, that if you could

00:58:23.460 destroy a person's life with that, no one would be safe.

00:58:26.800 And there were Republicans that lined up behind—lined up with Democrats against Roy Moore, they

00:58:35.000 bought into the fake news.

00:58:36.520 And now we know because of a New York Times article about this secret experiment that there

00:58:43.940 were people that were hired to create, you know, fake news and to target Alabama to see

00:58:51.400 if it could be turned blue for that senator.

00:58:56.000 I knew that if they allowed that to stand, that the left would continue to use that tactic.

00:59:02.940 And Kavanaugh, you know, once he got through that hurdle, I think he should have filed charges

00:59:09.740 against Ford because it's pretty clear that she was used, she was positioned.

00:59:15.940 I mean, that she was—she was not credible.

00:59:20.440 And when people need to be held accountable for what they do.

00:59:25.320 And—but it started with Roy Moore.

00:59:27.960 And because we didn't do the right thing as conservatives to stand up, you know, for principles,

00:59:33.800 the judicial process, that same tactic was used against Kavanaugh, and it will be used again

00:59:42.240 and again, and there is an endless supply of women who are willing to be trotted out until 1.00

00:59:47.920 there are enough lawsuits that people see that there's a cost involved to lying.

00:59:54.320 That was the thing that really bothered me, because I watched that, the Kavanaugh hearing,

00:59:59.300 and at first I didn't know.

01:00:02.140 You know, I was like, I'm going to go open mind.

01:00:04.200 I don't know.

01:00:04.900 I wasn't there.

01:00:05.920 Let me listen to her.

01:00:07.280 I listened to her, and I did not find her credible.

01:00:10.160 I just didn't.

01:00:10.960 Some people would.

01:00:11.700 I didn't find her credible.

01:00:14.020 I found him incredibly credible. 0.97

01:00:17.280 It's exactly how I would have reacted if I had been—if I had been told, shut your mouth

01:00:21.800 for two weeks, while my children, for the rest of my family history, they will look back

01:00:30.480 at me as their relative, their father, their grandfather, their great-great-grandfather, 0.93

01:00:35.580 and I'm the guy who raped this woman, and you haven't allowed me to say word one? 0.99

01:00:41.700 Oh my gosh, I would have lost my mind in that situation. 0.86

01:00:45.560 So I found him credible.

01:00:47.500 But what I said was, we'll know, because after he's appointed, if everybody goes away,

01:00:55.500 they didn't find her credible either.

01:00:57.240 Notice she hasn't gone away, and in fact, we found out since that the FBI spoke to her

01:01:05.860 friends on the beach, and it was concocted and put there just for that, and nobody corrected

01:01:14.360 it.

01:01:14.600 She didn't go to jail.

01:01:16.920 No one served any time.

01:01:19.400 How can you—I'm not even talking—I don't care about Congress.

01:01:23.580 Lying to Congress, please. 0.99

01:01:25.160 That's like, you know, clowns laughing at clowns. 0.87

01:01:28.520 You notice conservatives are the only ones that get in trouble for lying to Congress. 0.93

01:01:32.640 Correct.

01:01:33.660 So, but it matters that you have the power to destroy someone's life with a lie, and you

01:01:42.880 pay no price?

01:01:44.480 That's wrong.

01:01:46.280 And I think we're—I think what has to happen with conservatives, with the Constitution is

01:01:52.520 we have to find ways to take it out of the old dusty powdered wig talk and actually apply

01:02:00.320 it to real things and say, look, this is due process.

01:02:05.320 This is due process.

01:02:06.160 Well, some law schools are not even, you know, teaching the Constitution, or if they're teaching

01:02:10.640 it, they're teaching it as the living Constitution.

01:02:13.380 It means whatever you want it to mean or whatever I say it means.

01:02:16.460 But isn't that what case law says anyway?

01:02:18.120 Isn't that case law, it's what somebody has said most recently about that.

01:02:26.860 That's case law.

01:02:28.180 But, I mean, there were some things that I thought we could take for granted, and that

01:02:31.620 would be freedom of speech and our First Amendment rights, and that no longer seems to be the case.

01:02:39.580 And one of the things I find most troubling now is the fact that in the mainstream media,

01:02:45.440 there seems to be just no—very little that's reliable.

01:02:52.900 And, you know, like whatever is reported—well, one thing, the mainstream media keeps the population

01:03:01.520 ignorant by not reporting on things, because there are some individuals that if it wasn't

01:03:06.320 in the New York Times or on CNN, it didn't happen in the world. 0.97

01:03:10.300 Oh, I know.

01:03:10.720 And so, I mean, that's scary.

01:03:12.880 There's—there's—I just thought of this the other day.

01:03:16.240 I used to joke when I was—years ago when I was in New Haven.

01:03:20.200 New Haven had the New Haven Register, which was extraordinarily left, and it was just horrible.

01:03:26.340 And I used to joke, well, if it didn't—if it wasn't in the New Haven Register, it didn't

01:03:30.980 happen, okay?

01:03:31.800 But I thought of that now, so many important—I'm—I'm—I'm—I'm—I'm focused this year,

01:03:39.580 I'm trying to stay focused on the politics of meaning.

01:03:44.160 All you're seeing are these—the politics of nonsense, literal nonsense.

01:03:50.120 And nobody's talking about the things that actually will solve things, will actually move

01:03:58.280 the needle, will actually save people, will—will make—will push us forward.

01:04:04.100 Well, we seriously have to do something about Congress.

01:04:09.400 And when I say Congress, I'm not saying just the Democrats or just the Republicans.

01:04:14.020 You know, some of the things that I've learned recently that the average American probably

01:04:17.840 doesn't know is that 90 percent of our prescription drugs are made in China, and the drugs that

01:04:24.720 are supplied to the U.S. military.

01:04:27.000 And that had to do with Congress, you know, crafting—you know, they've made it so that

01:04:33.180 American businesses go out of business because they can't compete.

01:04:38.060 And so that's a very dangerous situation to have a rival nation that we know is unreliable.

01:04:44.220 And when the FDA wants to inspect a drug plant in China, they have to give two weeks' notice.

01:04:51.220 They can't just run in and surprise them.

01:04:53.640 Sounds like, you know, Syria and weapons of mass destruction. 0.96

01:04:56.760 But there's been—there's been a situation with blood pressure medicine that was laced with

01:05:04.500 carcinogens.

01:05:05.900 And it was medicine that was made in China.

01:05:08.660 And heparin, I think it's the blood thinner.

01:05:11.060 There have been several cases where, you know, people have been taking these drugs for years

01:05:16.700 not knowing that they were made in an unsafe manner.

01:05:21.060 And to me, that's a national security issue.

01:05:24.860 Most Americans are not aware of it.

01:05:26.900 I believe our members of Congress, you know, they are aware of it.

01:05:30.360 And it all has to do with changes.

01:05:32.540 They set the stage for that in 1987 when they were reforming the Medicare Act, and they put

01:05:41.100 in a safe harbor that ended up exempting certain group purchasing organizations.

01:05:48.000 And then now they have pharmacy benefit managers.

01:05:51.500 And the big drug companies in the U.S., there are a lot of drugs that they are not making

01:05:56.120 anymore.

01:05:57.040 Those drugs are being made overseas.

01:05:58.700 And that's a danger to the American population. 0.86

01:06:01.380 And we have Congress to blame.

01:06:05.260 Ted Cruz is pushing a congressional—I mean, sorry, a constitutional amendment for term limits.

01:06:15.940 And people are scoffing at it and saying, oh, they'll never pass term limits.

01:06:21.160 Well, Congress wouldn't, but there are other ways.

01:06:23.480 I wonder, we, I mean, look at how long the government was shut down and didn't seem to

01:06:31.340 be a problem with most people.

01:06:33.760 There is a, there's a contempt.

01:06:37.160 I mean, this border wall thing, I think the average American on the border wall says, look,

01:06:43.580 I just want to know who's here.

01:06:44.940 I want to make sure MS-13 is not in my neighborhood.

01:06:48.220 I want to make sure that bad guys aren't here.

01:06:50.260 I want to make sure that good people that just want to make us better and want to become

01:06:54.020 American can come through the front door, but make that easier. 1.00

01:06:56.660 I'm fine with that.

01:06:57.580 Right.

01:06:57.720 But I just don't want people here.

01:06:59.160 The reason why they're demanding a wall is because they don't trust government.

01:07:03.920 They say, I want something permanent because you'll pass it.

01:07:08.200 You won't build it.

01:07:09.600 And if you do build it, you'll stop, you'll stop doing whatever it was you said you were

01:07:14.620 going to do the minute we turn around.

01:07:16.980 That's why people want a wall. 0.78

01:07:19.040 So we're, we're, we're looking at this, this time where I think somebody like Donald Trump

01:07:28.280 could say, you know what, you know why this border wall is, is in the mess that it is?

01:07:36.100 Because nobody in the Republican party actually mean it when they tell you border wall.

01:07:42.360 Nobody in the Democratic party actually mean it.

01:07:45.420 They were fighting for it 10 years ago.

01:07:48.240 Now it's immoral.

01:07:50.880 And I think he could make the case to both sides.

01:07:54.480 Well, I can, this has to stop.

01:07:56.160 Um, my latest, most recent academic book is, uh, is an edited debating immigration.

01:08:04.400 And, um, and it was released August of last year.

01:08:08.680 So I've given a lot of thought to immigration.

01:08:11.860 Immigration has not been reformed since 1986.

01:08:14.460 And we've done piecemeal and there's no incentive by either political party to make the reforms

01:08:21.920 that we need.

01:08:22.680 And so we're talking border wall when immigration itself, the whole thing needs to be reformed.

01:08:29.700 And the wall, I believe is needed because I mean, there's another caravan coming from Honduras on its way to the U.S.

01:08:37.900 And, you know, they do get across the fence.

01:08:41.260 Uh, and you may have seen the, uh, photograph of someone, they know how to drive cars.

01:08:48.280 They, they have tracks where they can.

01:08:50.520 Oh, yeah.

01:08:51.020 Yeah.

01:08:51.220 Drive a car over, over the fence, which means we need to make our fences better, but we definitely

01:08:57.120 need something so that you just can't have, you know, thousands of people that just walk 1.00

01:09:01.820 across the border or rush the border.

01:09:04.380 Or they are in one group where as you're focused on the 2000, when the 200 are, you know, a mile

01:09:12.200 down walking across the border.

01:09:14.240 So I think the border wall, all of our attention is on that when it should be on comprehensive

01:09:22.320 immigration reform.

01:09:23.520 And by comprehensive, I don't mean, you know, amnesty as a code word.

01:09:27.600 I mean, comprehensive in that you look at the whole picture, legal as well as illegal immigration.

01:09:34.020 And it is impacting American citizens in adverse ways.

01:09:39.560 And the ones that are coming here are being released in Texas and cities, uh, they, they

01:09:45.920 have to be housed somewhere that's housing that American citizens are not going to get

01:09:51.520 because they tend to, uh, in some cases have more benefits, able to get more benefits from

01:09:58.480 certain parts than American citizens that are struggling.

01:10:01.440 I find it insulting that the country that was built by immigrants, we're all immigrants one way 1.00

01:10:19.920 or another.

01:10:20.460 Most of us are all immigrants one way or another.

01:10:22.460 At some point, we saw the, the racism against Chinese, against blacks, against the Irish,

01:10:30.140 white, black, didn't matter. 0.98

01:10:31.440 If you were different, you were bad, right? 0.76

01:10:34.500 But we saw the America that it built and it built a country because those people came 1.00

01:10:43.720 here wanting a promise to be Americans, be Americans.

01:10:49.800 I don't know.

01:10:51.140 And I'm sure there are tons of them.

01:10:52.820 I shouldn't say tons, maybe 5% of the American population is somebody who said, I don't want

01:10:58.240 any of these foreigners here.

01:10:59.480 Maybe there are, maybe it's 10%.

01:11:00.940 I don't know.

01:11:01.900 But 90% aren't like that.

01:11:04.780 Right.

01:11:05.320 If you come here and say, I can make you better.

01:11:08.860 It's, it's to, to accuse conservatives or to confuse people who say, look, I need people

01:11:15.400 to watch this border because there's bad things happening.

01:11:18.140 Right.

01:11:18.400 To say that they are racist somehow or xenophobic when, when you're, when you're talking to

01:11:25.640 a group of people who say books and people are the same.

01:11:30.080 I want diversity.

01:11:31.740 I want a diversity of ideas.

01:11:34.120 That's more important than skin color. 0.96

01:11:36.220 I know.

01:11:37.120 I want people coming in.

01:11:38.640 Right.

01:11:39.300 It makes us better.

01:11:40.180 I know.

01:11:41.860 But as long as epithets can be used to intimidate people and silence them, then they'll be hurled.

01:11:49.240 And I think that in some cases, the reaction should be to embrace the epithet, just laugh

01:11:56.200 at it and keep going with the conversation.

01:11:58.440 I thought, um, I saw, uh, I saw somebody, I won't address who the two candidates are.

01:12:06.820 Um, but I saw somebody, uh, and they had such a natural sense of humor.

01:12:13.740 Just, they were just natural and a really natural, almost infectious laugh.

01:12:19.200 And, uh, somebody who didn't.

01:12:21.260 Right.

01:12:21.500 And one person is, is looking and saying, they're saying, oh, that person's gonna, that person

01:12:26.800 will do well against Donald Trump because they'll bash him.

01:12:30.120 The other person is, uh, is they're not talking about.

01:12:34.640 And I thought if the other person runs against Donald Trump and Donald Trump does what Donald

01:12:40.540 Trump does and he, you know, he makes up a name for everybody and everything else.

01:12:44.880 If they are honest, if it's not, if it's their personality, you are a kind, gentle, thoughtful

01:12:52.460 woman.

01:12:53.160 You, there's no way you can't see that in you.

01:12:56.800 Um, if this is the kind of person they are and they laugh and go, uh, that's me, it could

01:13:05.440 diffuse it and that could win.

01:13:08.420 That is a problem that we're all taking things so seriously and we're getting so mad and stop

01:13:17.800 calling me that.

01:13:18.940 It doesn't matter what they say.

01:13:21.220 Doesn't matter.

01:13:22.120 Does it?

01:13:22.940 Not to me.

01:13:23.540 Not to me.

01:13:25.400 I refuse to be silenced because America means a lot to me.

01:13:30.460 And I think about my children, my grandchildren.

01:13:33.720 And when I say my children, I'm not thinking just about my biological children.

01:13:38.640 I'm thinking about all of those thousands of students that I've taught over the years.

01:13:43.220 And, uh, it troubles me what I see taking place.

01:13:47.380 And it troubles me when I see racism against white people.

01:13:50.740 Uh, the argument is that, you know, that white people, uh, can't be victims of racism

01:13:55.800 because, uh, racism only applies to people that don't have power and all whites have privilege.

01:14:01.940 Well, that is really, um, I'll say hogwash because I don't want to say the other word.

01:14:09.160 I think that, um, we need to stand for principles.

01:14:13.700 And if the principle is non-discrimination on the base of race, gender, uh, national origin,

01:14:20.960 then it includes everybody.

01:14:23.120 Non-discrimination has to be against every group.

01:14:25.660 And so it can't be one group that is safe to discriminate against, you know, that they

01:14:30.060 have less rights.

01:14:31.140 I think that, um,

01:14:33.220 Isn't this what King really was talking about?

01:14:38.220 I think so.

01:14:39.540 I think so.

01:14:40.540 And we have lost his message.

01:14:43.240 I mean, he's out of vogue, uh, nowadays and people would prefer to embrace other leaders

01:14:47.800 that are more divisive.

01:14:49.360 And if we don't start to turn things around in America, I think that we will see our nation

01:14:55.540 fall and maybe in our lifetimes.

01:15:02.800 Um, if I had to ask you what the, um, thing that keeps you

01:15:10.500 up at night because we started with urgency, you had a sense of purpose and a sense of

01:15:16.360 urgency.

01:15:17.200 So if I said to you, Carol, you're, it's your last week and this is your last interview and

01:15:26.960 you have a chance to talk to Americans and they're actually hear you.

01:15:33.480 What would your message be?

01:15:35.740 My message would be that we need to return to our Judeo-Christian values and principles. 0.99

01:15:42.140 I think that a lot of the confusion that we have in America, a lot of the violence and the

01:15:48.420 hopelessness has come as we have become increasingly secular.

01:15:53.780 I think that America is a nation that was founded on Judeo-Christian values and principles.

01:16:00.560 We had the, uh, civic religion, you know, that many people, they were not necessarily,

01:16:05.640 uh, deeply religious, but there were certain values and principles that made us Americans.

01:16:11.260 We've lost that.

01:16:12.640 And if we don't regain our footing, you know, spiritually, uh, um, and which ties into truth

01:16:20.920 and knowledge, then I think we're doomed.

01:16:23.660 So let me play, let me just push back.

01:16:25.660 Let me play devil's error.

01:16:26.560 All right.

01:16:27.360 Play the average person that is, that hears that.

01:16:30.180 And they're like, oh, geez.

01:16:31.880 Well, those Judeo-Christian values. 0.75

01:16:34.120 They don't know what they, yes.

01:16:36.080 Created slavery.

01:16:37.160 Those Judeo-Christian values were on display with, with fire hoses and dogs. 0.94

01:16:43.220 Those Judeo-Christian values have slaughtered people all over the world. 1.00

01:16:47.100 I would say that that is, um, again, I mean, I can't find the word, a ladylike word to say

01:16:54.600 what my reaction would normally be.

01:16:56.700 There were always Christians that fought for abolition, that, uh, protected, uh, the, uh, 0.59

01:17:03.760 slaves and helped them, you know, get to freedom.

01:17:06.460 That educate, set up universities back in the 1800s.

01:17:10.820 And if you look at all the billions of dollars, the philanthropy that has come from white people 0.71

01:17:17.500 throughout, um, uh, the ages.

01:17:20.500 Specifically Americans, I think.

01:17:22.120 No, I'm talking about Americans.

01:17:23.260 I'm talking about Americans.

01:17:24.540 You know, there, there have been universities going back to the 1800s.

01:17:27.860 They were educating blacks and there were universities in New England that never discriminated

01:17:33.200 and they were educating blacks.

01:17:34.820 And so a lot of the, uh, positive things that have taken place in America, we have always

01:17:41.800 been a nation that we eventually acknowledged their wrongs.

01:17:45.900 But even, um, when those wrongs were there, there were always Christian people who were fighting

01:17:52.520 for what's right.

01:17:53.620 And they, um, and so for me, I'm glad that I'm an American and, and I'm a descendant of slaves

01:18:03.080 on at least one side of my family.

01:18:05.600 I'm a descendant of slaves.

01:18:07.520 And when I look at divine providence, you know, we don't know why things happen the way

01:18:12.840 they do, but I'm glad that my ancestors made it to America because I believe America is

01:18:19.140 the greatest country in the world.

01:18:21.500 Blacks in America, whether they know it or not, are better off than blacks anywhere else 1.00

01:18:26.460 in the world. 0.97

01:18:27.160 It's a blessing to be an American.

01:18:29.220 And so, uh, if I look at white people, I see people that have always tried to improve

01:18:38.760 the lot of people around the world and, uh, they've sent missionaries.

01:18:43.540 Uh, I, I go to a church where wealthy white people work in inner city ghetto that they spend

01:18:51.100 their time and their resources working among, uh, in neighborhoods where I would, I am uncomfortable

01:18:57.440 to go at times, but they're not.

01:19:00.320 And so, um, I just think that when you have secularism and a devaluation of human life that

01:19:07.340 we see in abortion, uh, uh, the fact that we don't value as Americans life at any stage,

01:19:15.180 we don't, we don't value the life of the unborn or the lives of the elderly or the lives of people 0.80

01:19:22.960 that are born, uh, you know, with some type of handicap, I mean, that makes us, we know better 1.00

01:19:28.960 than, uh, uh, the people doing, you know, Hitler, you know, and the Nazis, because a lot of what we

01:19:36.020 do, it's very similar.

01:19:38.840 And, uh...

01:19:39.200 Let me tell you that I think we're actually worse than the people of Germany that voted

01:19:43.720 for Hitler. 0.59

01:19:44.680 And here's why.

01:19:45.820 Because we have more knowledge?

01:19:46.960 A, we have more knowledge, but B, when they found out that, um, the state was committing

01:19:54.380 infanticide, it was killing children because they were different, they stood up and were

01:20:00.880 clear.

01:20:02.180 Hitler overruled them. 0.93

01:20:03.440 I mean, he actually didn't.

01:20:04.400 He said, yes, you're right, we're going to stop that, and then just hid it.

01:20:07.900 But when they found out that we were killing children, they stood up and said, that's an

01:20:13.820 abomination.

01:20:15.380 We're now, uh, shout your abortion. 1.00

01:20:19.600 We're now...

01:20:20.420 I know.

01:20:20.780 I mean, we're now saying, if you have Down syndrome...

01:20:24.260 I know.

01:20:24.900 I mean, I think we're actually on the path of being worse.

01:20:28.400 But, well, maybe we are worse.

01:20:30.140 And, you know, like, as a Christian, and in America, I think the numbers are still, a majority

01:20:35.760 of people profess to be Christians.

01:20:37.540 They're not really, but they profess it.

01:20:39.640 But, um, if you believe the Bible, and, you know, some people do, some people don't, but

01:20:46.580 God judges nations.

01:20:49.360 Mm-hmm.

01:20:49.660 In ancient Israel and some of the nations in the Old Testament that were judged, they

01:20:54.140 did far less than what we're doing now.

01:20:56.240 Mm-hmm.

01:20:56.440 And if you believe that there is a God throughout the ages, that there is a God, and you're a

01:21:01.660 Christian, you're supposed to believe. 0.86

01:21:03.600 If you do believe there is a God, why do you think America would get a better deal than

01:21:08.440 ancient Israel or other nations?

01:21:10.400 So I think we are poised, you know, for God's judgment, and that the only way to save America

01:21:18.860 is to pull back from the nonsense that secularism has brought. 0.96

01:21:24.280 And I think that we have become, you know, so intellectual that we are foolish, and that 0.97

01:21:31.560 foolishness is seen in the fact that, you know, there's some people saying there's 64

01:21:35.780 genders, uh, and that, uh, that I, that we're not born male or female. 0.97

01:21:40.680 We are assigned, uh, our sex, uh, at birth.

01:21:45.280 And, uh, some of the things that are coming, you know, from the intellectual world, it's

01:21:50.080 total nonsense.

01:21:51.340 And I'm just hoping that there will be a, an awakening, uh, that people, you know, will

01:21:59.060 be able to see through what's happening and that they will pull back and that our young

01:22:03.560 people, that somehow they'll get truth, even if it's not readily available in the public

01:22:09.340 schools, that there will be enough truth that comes through people's intellect that they

01:22:14.840 will be able to see.

01:22:16.640 Uh, and so I think that our nation is headed in the wrong direction.

01:22:21.380 Our churches are failing us because there's so many pastors that will play to public opinion

01:22:27.540 as opposed to the biblical, uh, uh, uh, uh, standards.

01:22:33.980 And, um, and as a consequence, we're worse off because of that.

01:22:38.520 And there's a lot of fear.

01:22:39.840 People are afraid of speaking truth.

01:22:41.460 They're afraid they'll lose their job or they'll be punished the way you were punished, you

01:22:46.240 know, by the, by a lot of the people in the mainstream or ostracized.

01:22:50.360 You have been punished.

01:22:51.440 Yes, I have.

01:22:52.600 You have been punished.

01:22:53.680 You paid a very heavy price.

01:22:55.560 But it's okay.

01:22:57.580 Mine is too, but it's not fun.

01:23:00.320 It's not fun.

01:23:01.400 But, um, for people who are followers of Jesus Christ, you know, he tells us that we're going

01:23:06.360 to be persecuted and none of us should think that we're going to get a better deal.

01:23:10.440 In fact, we're supposed to count it as joy when we are persecuted.

01:23:14.680 I'm still working on that part, counting it as joy.

01:23:19.560 But, you know, like I refuse to be intimidated and, you know, people want to laugh at me.

01:23:24.400 If they want to laugh at you, then let's laugh with them.

01:23:28.160 But, uh, at the end of the day, I think that truth will stand and that we need to keep doing

01:23:33.520 what we are doing because there are people that have ears to hear.

01:23:37.060 There are people that hear your message.

01:23:39.360 They hear my message.

01:23:40.780 And, uh, to the extent that we keep talking, other people will start talking and will start

01:23:46.400 pushing back.

01:23:47.200 And what I want, like my whole thing now, my brand is Be The People.

01:23:53.280 Be The People.

01:23:54.640 It's the name of your podcast.

01:23:55.880 It's the name of my podcast.

01:23:57.500 And it was the title of a book that I published in 2011, Be The People, A Call to Reclaim America's

01:24:03.600 Faith and Promise.

01:24:04.740 I thought that book was going to change the world.

01:24:06.860 It was published in 2011.

01:24:08.460 And it was, it was supposed to awaken the American public.

01:24:11.820 And they were supposed to do something different than elect Barack Obama to a second term.

01:24:17.140 It didn't work out that way.

01:24:19.020 But, um, it's all about awakening the we, the people mentioned in the preamble of the

01:24:25.420 Constitution to awaken us because we are responsible for everything around us.

01:24:31.460 In America, we elect the, uh, politicians, all of those policies, including abortion, um, 0.94

01:24:38.560 they enact on our behalf.

01:24:41.140 And so if we don't want to pay for it, then we need to stop electing politicians that, um,

01:24:47.260 that have allowed or putting in place policies that run counter to our core values and principles.

01:24:53.820 You said, um, a couple of times now that, um, you just think that maybe people intellect or

01:25:04.740 I used to believe the first line, first paragraph, we hold these truths to be self-evident.

01:25:13.120 I don't think there is anything as self-evident truth.

01:25:16.280 Uh, I can go to China and I can talk to the people in the rice paddies who have been oppressed

01:25:20.620 for generations and say, Hey, by the way, should you have the right to life, liberty,

01:25:24.860 pursuit of happiness?

01:25:25.800 And I think a lot of them would say no, because they've never experienced it.

01:25:30.280 It's culturally dependent in some ways.

01:25:32.600 And so my message is, is for America.

01:25:36.260 I know.

01:25:36.860 So, but what I'm asking you is, um, you said Judeo-Christian values and principles.

01:25:43.900 Those aren't being taught.

01:25:45.400 Those are the golden rule.

01:25:46.740 Those are, those are basic things that are not being taught anymore.

01:25:52.060 But guess what?

01:25:53.020 The reason the political left silences, uh, voices like yours and mine and people that

01:25:58.520 are more conservative is that they know that if those things are taught, they lose the advantage

01:26:05.180 that they have.

01:26:06.060 And the only reason that the political left seems to be winning the cultural war is that

01:26:11.020 they have to strip everyone else of their rights and silence them because if the truth were

01:26:15.620 known, even if the truth were known about president Trump and his successes, like he's been

01:26:20.880 enormously successful in a number of different areas, especially African-American, you would

01:26:25.880 not know that through the mainstream media.

01:26:29.040 And so they told the truth about what president Trump has accomplished.

01:26:32.460 He would be elected.

01:26:34.000 His popularity would be 65% now.

01:26:37.520 And he got half the coverage that Obama got.

01:26:40.060 I know.

01:26:40.640 On the bad things that Obama did, he would be wild.

01:26:44.260 Well, the thing about it is, uh, the left's ability to maintain power depends on keeping 0.91

01:26:52.720 the population ignorant.

01:26:54.340 And it's up to us to, you know, educate as many people as we can to counter that.

01:26:59.640 But if people ever start thinking, if there's ever an awakening in America where people are,

01:27:05.900 the scales fall off their eyes, they're able to see, then it's over for the political left

01:27:11.600 and its radical agenda.

01:27:13.000 I think it's over for most politicians.

01:27:15.620 Yeah.

01:27:16.180 And I, I, I, it's not a Democrat Republican thing.

01:27:19.520 It's like the elites, uh, of both political parties get together and they decide what they

01:27:24.800 want and they are working against the American people.

01:27:27.200 Carol, I don't know why we haven't spent more time together.

01:27:32.020 I've so enjoyed this.

01:27:33.300 Well, thank you.

01:27:33.900 I've enjoyed it too.

01:27:34.820 We could talk all day.

01:27:36.480 We'll have to come back.

01:27:37.980 Thank you.

01:27:44.300 Just a reminder, I'd love you to rate and subscribe to the podcast and pass this on to a friend

01:27:49.900 so it can be discovered by other people.

01:27:57.200 Thank you.

01:27:57.980 Thank you.

01:28:10.180 We'll see you next week.

01:28:16.600 Bye-bye.

01:28:18.240 Bye-bye.

01:28:21.300 Bye-bye.

01:28:22.520 Bye-bye.

01:28:22.880 Bye-bye.

01:28:23.400 Bye-bye.

01:28:23.460 Bye-bye.

01:28:24.280 Bye-bye.

01:28:25.760 Bye-bye.

The Glenn Beck Program - January 26, 2019

Ep 21 ｜ Dr. Carol Swain ｜ The Glenn Beck Podcast

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