The Glenn Beck Program - Ep 223 ｜ What Nuclear War Under Joe Biden Would Look Like ｜ Annie Jacobsen ｜ The Glenn Beck Podcast

00:00:00.000 And now, a Blaze Media podcast.

00:00:04.120 If there were a nuclear attack on the United States, the fate of humanity would change in a second.

00:00:10.580 Within minutes, mutually assured destruction would demand global wreckage.

00:00:16.240 And within just a few minutes, we could be facing a nuclear winter that would last years.

00:00:22.640 Does deterrence protect us from this?

00:00:25.600 It's a pretty dark future.

00:00:27.160 As my next guest suggests, it's merely a psychological phenomenon without any real promise of protection.

00:00:35.640 Can American, Americans, and America trust other nations with nuclear weapons?

00:00:41.280 Can we even trust ourselves?

00:00:44.220 My guest today is one of my favorite people, a world-class journalist, Pulitzer Prize finalist, best-selling author.

00:00:51.980 She is fascinated, strangely, in the same things I am.

00:00:55.180 She goes in-depth in investigation, takes her sometimes years to do, into the most secret crevices of American history.

00:01:04.800 She's here to talk to us about a couple of things, but first, what really happens in a nuclear war.

00:01:11.600 Please welcome today's guest on the podcast, Annie Jacobson.

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00:02:55.200 Annie, I am so thrilled to have you on the show.

00:02:58.080 You don't know this, but you are greatly affecting my thinking on a few things.

00:03:06.060 And I have been really struggling with a few topics.

00:03:12.940 And I don't know.

00:03:14.520 You just seem to be interested in many of the same things that I am.

00:03:18.020 And I'm trying to figure out how we got here.

00:03:20.220 And I want to talk about three books that you have written.

00:03:27.180 Operation Paperclip is one of them.

00:03:29.980 Then Surprise, Kill, Vanish.

00:03:33.940 But I want to start with your latest book, Nuclear War, which, quite honestly, it did not make me popular with my wife.

00:03:41.360 Because I would be reading and go, oh my gosh, oh my gosh.

00:03:44.440 And she's, what, what?

00:03:45.940 Stop reading these books about nuclear annihilation.

00:03:48.220 It's fascinating and terrifying.

00:03:55.500 Why did you get into this, the first thing?

00:03:58.580 How did you, and why did you select this topic?

00:04:03.380 First of all, thank you for having me on the show.

00:04:05.560 It's a pleasure to speak with you.

00:04:07.700 And if you're familiar with my other books, as you are, as you mentioned two of them that we might get into,

00:04:12.860 you know that I write about war and weapons and national security and secrets.

00:04:21.020 And in every one of the previous six books I have written that covers the Pentagon, the CIA, various military operations,

00:04:28.400 all the wars America has fought since and including World War II.

00:04:33.540 A hundred or more sources per book.

00:04:37.480 Imagine all the sources I've spoken to.

00:04:40.320 How many of them have said to me, with kind of a sense of pride, national pride,

00:04:46.140 Annie, I have done what I have done to prevent nuclear World War III.

00:04:52.560 And so, during the previous administration, fire and fury rhetoric, COVID, a little bit of extra time,

00:05:03.880 I began to wonder, wait a minute, what would happen if deterrence, that idea of prevention,

00:05:10.720 that all of these sources had been telling me about going back 15 years now,

00:05:15.100 what would happen if deterrence failed?

00:05:18.580 I wanted to specifically demonstrate for readers what happens.

00:05:24.360 Not how it happens, not why it happens, but what happens.

00:05:29.280 It is one of the most terrifying journeys and so well written.

00:05:35.640 You know, you're writing it second by second, minute by minute.

00:05:39.880 And you're going into things that, I mean, there's a couple of things in there you say,

00:05:45.140 like, only one person has talked about that, and it's with me.

00:05:50.780 You're revealing some things in there that are truly remarkable.

00:05:57.720 You know, Gorbachev and Reagan, they're both gone now, and that's a lost era.

00:06:04.940 But I think they both came to the same conclusion, you talk about it, they both came to the same

00:06:10.660 conclusion that this is madness, and it can never, ever be fought.

00:06:15.760 But for the first time in my lifetime since, you know, that discovery from Reagan and Gorbachev,

00:06:24.000 we're now talking about it as if it could be won.

00:06:28.820 What are the world leaders thinking?

00:06:35.900 Well, you've hit upon an important point, certainly for me.

00:06:39.360 When I was really doing the heavy reporting on this book, doing these intense interviews

00:06:44.240 with people like former secretaries of defense, former STRATCOM director,

00:06:49.740 former commander of the U.S. nuclear sub-forces.

00:06:54.320 This was during COVID when people had a little more time on their hands, perhaps,

00:07:00.500 to do Zooms with someone like me.

00:07:03.560 And what was often said to me by many of these individuals who are Cold War warriors,

00:07:10.740 so who sort of were in the highest ranking positions you're talking about in the 80s and the 90s

00:07:17.040 and the early 2000s, some later, they said to me that part of the reason why they were willing

00:07:22.840 to speak to me about the horrors of what it would look like if nuclear war happened was because

00:07:29.080 people had forgotten.

00:07:31.140 Former SACDF Leon Panetta said to me that it was good that I was doing this because the

00:07:36.020 American people needed to know, as if we'd all forgotten.

00:07:39.100 And you're absolutely right.

00:07:40.700 Who would have possibly imagined in the worst way that when the book would publish, it published

00:07:46.260 four months ago, we would be in the middle of this rising rhetoric and also presidential

00:07:52.640 insecurity, world leader insecurity, people not behaving like they are in command and control.

00:08:02.360 And so that reveals, I believe, an even more perilous nature of this premise of deterrence that

00:08:10.760 we spoke about earlier, this idea that, oh, deterrence will hold.

00:08:15.920 We'll just have a bunch of nuclear weapons pointed at everyone and no one would be insane enough

00:08:21.020 to use them.

00:08:24.540 I think I got this from you, but I can't remember.

00:08:31.840 The idea that everyone's back is up against a wall now, Putin can't lose, we can't back

00:08:42.400 out, Ukraine can't back out. 0.58

00:08:46.460 So all of these, all of these major countries, China, the same, none of them can walk away

00:08:54.620 a loser, and that just ratchets this kind of stuff up to beyond reason.

00:09:04.480 But do these players, do these players actually believe that they can win? 0.92

00:09:13.540 One of the most remarkable reveals that I learned in reporting the book was how unaware

00:09:21.440 world leaders are as to the realities of nuclear war.

00:09:27.320 And at least that can be said about individuals, presidents of the United States, and that is

00:09:32.620 based on their closest advisors, by the way.

00:09:36.520 Meaning, you know, I think it was Bill Perry, another former secretary of defense, who said

00:09:41.200 to me, you know, most come into office unprepared.

00:09:44.260 They don't want to know.

00:09:46.220 So again, it reinforces this idea that we'll never have a nuclear war.

00:09:50.360 I have so many other things to worry about at home and abroad, so let me just focus on

00:09:55.400 those things, including my popularity, at the expense of this existential threat that

00:10:00.960 looms over all of us.

00:10:03.260 And so for that specific reason, in reporting the book, I wanted to take the reader from

00:10:09.600 nuclear launch to nuclear winter.

00:10:12.280 Take them in seconds and minutes, as you say, not bring them, not offer up my opinion or

00:10:20.060 even the opinion of wise analysts about how this could happen or how leaders might feel

00:10:26.360 squeezed, as you say.

00:10:28.140 Just what?

00:10:29.320 Just what's going to happen.

00:10:30.580 And I hope that all of the leaders around the world read this book and realize that's

00:10:34.840 the most, you've hit upon the most important quote, by the way, Reagan and Gorbachev, nuclear

00:10:40.000 war cannot be won and must never be fought.

00:10:47.740 I, in reading this, I have shared it with so many people.

00:10:52.460 And the people that I, uh, that I take seriously, um, and the people that I think, uh, are up

00:11:02.760 to speed and are awake on what we might be facing.

00:11:06.580 I'll say, have you read Annie J and they'll stop me.

00:11:09.600 Yes, it is absolutely terrifying, isn't it?

00:11:13.780 Um, but there's so many people that haven't read it that should.

00:11:18.160 And it goes to the point, you know, when I saw the moment in the debate where, um, uh,

00:11:24.780 Joe Biden, and I, I, I'm, I do not say this as a partisan, everybody was, everybody came

00:11:31.840 out of that worried about, oh my gosh, how could he run for, you know, uh, and win against

00:11:37.820 Donald Trump?

00:11:38.400 He's not going to win.

00:11:39.460 And all I heard in my head was most presidents are not prepared.

00:11:47.580 And when I'm listening to that section of when they're bringing the black book of death 0.96

00:11:51.600 out and the decisions that he and he alone has to make, I thought I wouldn't be prepared

00:11:59.380 for, nobody would be perfect prepared for that.

00:12:02.400 Okay.

00:12:03.280 This guy can not be the man with the football.

00:12:07.060 Can you explain what the president has to decide and how he really cannot get advice from, from

00:12:17.120 the Pentagon leaders?

00:12:20.380 Absolutely.

00:12:21.140 And, you know, Glenn, it's like the, a few basics are really important, I think for listeners

00:12:26.940 to know.

00:12:27.880 And you and I know this, you know, me having reported the book, you read it, you learn really

00:12:31.460 quickly, the, one of the most significant hallmarks of nuclear war is that when the missile launches,

00:12:38.200 it is called an ICBM.

00:12:40.600 And when it launches, it takes approximately 30 minutes to get from one continent to the

00:12:47.440 other.

00:12:48.080 And the ICBM cannot be redirected or cannot be recalled.

00:12:53.340 30 minutes.

00:12:54.480 Then you also have to consider that built into the rubric of nuclear war planning is the concept

00:13:02.340 that we must launch our nuclear weapons before they hit the United States.

00:13:10.760 That is, that is a fundamental.

00:13:13.740 And that is why a policy called launch on warning exists, which is exactly like it sounds.

00:13:19.100 The president must launch when he gets a warning that a strategic ballistic missile is en route

00:13:25.600 to the United States.

00:13:27.460 And now you see the ticking.

00:13:28.720 Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, Annie, how could, because you talk about this in the book,

00:13:33.320 North Korea launches.

00:13:35.080 We don't know for sure it's coming for us.

00:13:38.240 We have no idea if it even has a nuclear warhead in it.

00:13:43.100 It, I mean, it may be heading for Canada.

00:13:45.900 It, it may, it may just be a dud that never had, if we launch, then we're first strike.

00:13:53.620 How do you make that decision to launch before it hits a city?

00:14:01.860 Couple clarifications there that are important.

00:14:05.380 For starters, we do know where the missile is coming from because we have satellite systems

00:14:10.820 overhead.

00:14:12.360 We can see it launch.

00:14:13.540 Yes.

00:14:13.780 So we can see it launch in under a fraction, in under one second.

00:14:17.800 We have, we have satellites parked over our nuclear armed adversaries.

00:14:21.920 So the system is set up to be alerted immediately.

00:14:25.200 And then what I learned from reporting the book and speaking to individuals in the military

00:14:30.720 who are inside those bunkers that are receiving the data as it comes from the satellite system

00:14:37.780 down to earth in these bunkers across the United States as part of nuclear command and control.

00:14:43.600 within 100 seconds, they know the trajectory of the ballistic missile.

00:14:50.300 They know if it's coming for the United, at the United States, they can tell within 15

00:14:55.580 seconds, Oh, it's not going to Moscow.

00:14:57.420 Oh, it's not going to Guam.

00:14:58.860 And so imagine those 100 seconds in that command and control bunker.

00:15:03.240 Once they know, once they know it's coming to the, and then they discern San Francisco

00:15:08.080 versus East coast, rather West coast, East coast.

00:15:10.920 Once they know it's coming to the East coast, the president is being notified immediately.

00:15:15.620 And then you begin to see that this is a system of systems.

00:15:19.940 It is a sequence of events that is pre-programmed to occur.

00:15:23.940 And that is why to answer your question, the president has six minutes to decide because

00:15:29.380 once he's notified that you're already, you know, let's say between five and eight minutes

00:15:36.520 into the 30 minute delivery of that nuclear weapon.

00:15:40.460 But what is, you also raise another important point, which is what's in the warhead and you

00:15:48.480 are absolutely right.

00:15:49.560 And that is another flaw that there, we do not know, we will not know we being the defense

00:15:54.560 department will not know what's in that warhead until it strikes the United States. 0.74

00:15:59.680 But as one advisor tells the president, no one would be insane enough to send a ballistic

00:16:05.400 missile to the United States.

00:16:07.300 If they did not assume they were going to be counterattacked with a mother load of nuclear

00:16:13.120 weapons.

00:16:13.700 This gets us into that paradox of deterrence, which is madness.

00:16:20.080 She is fascinating more in just a minute.

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00:17:16.940 So take us to the point to where those six minutes are happening and the president now

00:17:25.880 knows it's heading for us and he has to begin to make decisions.

00:17:30.660 The nuclear football is always with him.

00:17:34.740 Who is with the football besides the president?

00:17:37.680 The president of the United States has what is called sole presidential authority.

00:17:46.000 That means he asks permission of no one to launch nuclear weapons, which he is required

00:17:52.360 to do.

00:17:53.240 He doesn't ask permission of the secretary of defense, not the chairman of the joint chiefs

00:17:58.220 of staff, certainly not the Congress.

00:18:00.580 And so he may turn to his sec def, he may turn to the chairman of the joint chiefs of

00:18:07.640 staff who would almost certainly be on comms, and he may ask them, what do I do?

00:18:13.760 But they are there to advise, not to instruct.

00:18:17.120 It is up to the president.

00:18:18.560 And that is why the decisions handbook inside the nuclear football is so important.

00:18:25.140 It comes down to one man, you hope he has his marbles, and a list in front of him of counter-strike

00:18:35.480 options that have been pared down by a group of individuals at the defense department for

00:18:42.360 him to make this choice that he is being pressured to make in the next six minutes.

00:18:48.200 So, um, they can advise, but they cannot, they cannot, he can't say, what, what, what should

00:18:57.240 I do, right?

00:18:58.800 They're, they're bound constitutionally not to tell him what he should do.

00:19:05.260 Yes, they cannot order him what to do, which is really remarkable.

00:19:09.020 And so on the flip side of that, he can just, he has what's called authority, but he can and

00:19:14.620 will lean on his sec def, almost certainly.

00:19:18.080 And that was conveyed to me by two secretaries of defense.

00:19:21.160 They are the sage counsel.

00:19:23.080 So another important thing to consider when you're considering who the president is choosing

00:19:27.720 as his sec def, but no, the responsibility is his alone.

00:19:32.140 So who stops a president that just goes nuts and says, you know what?

00:19:38.240 I want to take out China today. 0.99

00:19:40.740 Give me the football.

00:19:41.540 Who has the authority to stop him if that would happen?

00:19:47.080 No one officially.

00:19:49.120 There are stories that exist.

00:19:50.880 There's a story of Richard Nixon sort of drunk in the last days of office, threatening nuclear

00:19:56.960 weapons against, you know, Southeast Asia.

00:20:00.180 And there's a story of Henry Kissinger calling up the Pentagon and saying, no one take orders

00:20:07.300 from the president without talking to me first.

00:20:10.060 Those are stories.

00:20:11.100 I didn't hear that from Henry Kissinger himself.

00:20:13.880 But what we do know is that this decision must be made in this, with this incredible pressure

00:20:23.060 cooker of time and that a situation happens called jamming the president, which is when

00:20:31.620 most of the military is really pressuring the president to make a decision about the number

00:20:39.760 of weapons he is going to use in the counterstrike, which targets to hit.

00:20:44.580 This will kill millions, if not tens of millions of people.

00:20:48.100 The president can barely be aware of this because he's reading what was described as a Denny's

00:20:54.160 menu like list of options.

00:20:57.100 So, this is, is this called the Black Book of Death?

00:21:02.240 Isn't that what it's called?

00:21:04.320 It is called the Decisions Handbook.

00:21:07.060 It is, its nickname is the Black Book.

00:21:09.660 And the, uh, Dr. Glenn McDuff, who's a weapons designer at Los Alamos and also the historian

00:21:16.740 at the classified museum there told me the reason it was called the Black Book was because

00:21:22.640 it involves so much death.

00:21:24.440 And he has to look at it and then who plays like the actuary role that when he picks everything

00:21:34.740 from the menu, then in your book, you describe that somebody has to now calculate how many

00:21:41.200 people will die.

00:21:42.500 And if that crosses over into anybody's border, who does that?

00:21:48.580 Those are all decisions that are happening really fast.

00:21:51.340 What we learn is that at the same time that the president has that Decisions Handbook,

00:21:56.600 the Black Book he's looking at with the mill aid, holding it in front of him, there is an

00:22:01.400 identical copy of that book at the Stratcom bunker in Nebraska.

00:22:07.120 So, for listeners, really quick, there are three bunkers that are going to be at play.

00:22:11.740 There's the military bunker beneath the Pentagon.

00:22:14.700 There's one beneath, off at Air Force Base in Nebraska, that's the Stratcom bunker, U.S.

00:22:21.600 Strategic Command.

00:22:22.860 And then there's the bunker inside of Cheyenne Mountain.

00:22:26.400 They were referred to me as like, the brain is the Cheyenne Mountain.

00:22:33.360 The muscle is the Stratcom bunker.

00:22:38.620 And that what happens at the Pentagon is the beating heart of nuclear war.

00:22:43.380 And those three command centers are all working together on comms to get this order from the

00:22:49.680 president, because then the weapons must be launched by the Stratcom commander out of that

00:22:56.940 bunker in Stratcom.

00:22:58.380 And by the way, Glenn, you and I both know we're only in the first few minutes of the scenario

00:23:03.020 unfolding.

00:23:03.700 This is where the decision trees start to go bananas, because you have the Secret Service

00:23:09.360 with a different plan.

00:23:11.060 They want to move the president out of Washington, D.C.

00:23:13.920 And you have the Stratcom commander that has to get on the doomsday plane, because he's got

00:23:18.820 to get up into the air so that he can order further nuclear strikes as America is obliterated

00:23:27.260 by incoming nuclear missiles.

00:23:28.920 So the scene that you paint of the, I don't know if I would call it chaos, the orchestrated

00:23:41.420 or controlled chaos that it would be is phenomenal. 0.89

00:23:48.460 And then when he picks certain targets, it might kill so many Chinese over the border. 0.93

00:23:56.260 And will China see this as a threat?

00:23:59.340 We have to, if we are going to send missiles, we have to send them over the polar cap, which

00:24:02.760 means they go over Russia.

00:24:04.740 Have we talked to Russia?

00:24:06.360 In your book, they never get a hold of Russia.

00:24:11.500 The right people don't get in touch with each other.

00:24:15.540 Why did we get rid of the hotline?

00:24:18.540 And why don't we have that system now with all countries that have nuclear weapons?

00:24:26.340 And of course, you're asking basic questions that I myself wonder, and I hope every person

00:24:32.180 who reads the book wonders.

00:24:34.300 When you move through the second by second and the minute by minute reporting this, as I did,

00:24:41.300 learning from different individuals who are inside the nuclear command and control who

00:24:45.740 can answer those questions that you really can't even comprehend until you start doing

00:24:50.880 what I did, which is following the decision tree process.

00:24:54.560 It was remarkable, as I was learning this, to realize that there is an egregious problem

00:25:03.220 every second and minute of the way, literally.

00:25:06.520 And you just spoke of a couple of them.

00:25:08.080 I mean, imagine if the, as the president makes his decision from the decisions book, I'm going

00:25:13.920 to go with this counterattack.

00:25:16.320 Somebody has to quickly brief him if he asks on how many people it might kill.

00:25:23.440 It's also a weather officer involved who may pipe up and say it would, you know, the fallout

00:25:28.880 would be this.

00:25:29.820 Again, these are decisions that are fluid.

00:25:31.460 They are not specific.

00:25:32.740 Certainly, if the president asks, let's say there's a national security advisor in the

00:25:36.960 room who's really knowledgeable about China, who's concerned how China might react if the

00:25:42.180 counterattack is to North Korea, we begin to see all the errors.

00:25:47.980 But you have pointed out one of the most important ones that is just astonishing to everyone, which

00:25:53.760 is that U.S. ICBMs do not have enough range to target North Korea without overflying Russia.

00:26:03.480 And so imagine, just think about where we are today.

00:26:08.740 The president of the United States has not spoken to the president of Russia in more than

00:26:14.160 two years.

00:26:16.600 General Milley couldn't get his counterpart on the phone, General Milley, the former chairman

00:26:21.480 of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, when it was erroneously reported by the AP back in, you know,

00:26:27.400 the early days of the Ukraine war, an erroneous report that a missile, a Russian missile, had

00:26:33.500 struck Poland. 1.00

00:26:34.220 That's an Article 5 NATO conflagration potential.

00:26:39.380 Milley couldn't get his Russian counterpart on the phone for at least 24 hours.

00:26:45.100 And so this is not like imaginary scenarios.

00:26:48.000 This is real world problems.

00:26:51.460 The ability for a leader to just pick up the phone and get his counterpart is in 2024 fantasy.

00:26:59.080 How is that possible when I can see what's happening on the other side of the world?

00:27:08.920 How is it that the rational nations have not said, I'm going to hire one guy, one team that

00:27:17.560 will rotate out, be with him with the football or whatever, 24 hours a day.

00:27:21.960 And with that is a phone where I can call China, Russia, North Korea, America, anybody, Israel,

00:27:29.860 anybody who has them, Pakistan, I need to get them on the phone. 1.00

00:27:33.240 How could we possibly have this system in today's world with our technology and not be able to

00:27:40.940 get the leader of the country that we think is bombing us or that we have to fly over or

00:27:45.740 that we're about to bomb on the phone?

00:27:50.540 And this is where we come to the, like sort of the, we really have to talk about concepts

00:27:56.240 of like rationality because technically you could, you and I, I could Skype someone in

00:28:02.560 Moscow in a moment with or without the, you know, technical problems that I sometimes have.

00:28:08.440 I could.

00:28:08.860 But what we're talking, the reason why these leaders can't communicate with one another

00:28:14.240 has to do with enmity, has to do with hostility.

00:28:19.360 It's a purely human emotion.

00:28:22.920 It has to do with pride and false pride.

00:28:25.900 And it has to do with seeing someone else as the enemy as opposed to the adversary, which

00:28:34.800 brings us back to the only ray of hope in all of this, which is the Reagan-Gorbachev

00:28:41.620 denouement that was experienced in the 80s.

00:28:45.800 When you saw two world leaders whose countries had for decades seen one another as the arch rival,

00:28:55.760 you know, the twirling mustache bad guy.

00:28:58.440 And then suddenly there was a moment of sanity where the two parties came together as adversaries

00:29:09.800 or as opponents at so much more realistic and far less dangerous in the world in which

00:29:19.040 we live is to be able to see people in opposition as opposed to an enemy you need to kill.

00:29:24.560 That's why they can't communicate.

00:29:25.880 Um, I talked to an expert, uh, on nuclear war, supposedly, um, right after 9-11 and I was

00:29:38.820 living in New York and I said, what could these missiles do?

00:29:44.440 And I didn't get the same kind of, uh, uh, answer that your book gave me.

00:29:53.280 What I got was most people will be surprised that they live through it.

00:30:01.620 That, uh, I, cause I, I, I was saying, I don't want to live through that.

00:30:07.440 Uh, if it's an all out nuclear war, there's nothing left.

00:30:12.880 Can you describe what that's like?

00:30:16.500 Yes. Um, just a quick thought on what other people tell you. I have noticed recently so

00:30:27.280 many, you know, false positives of what people say can happen coming from really high ranking

00:30:33.120 individuals on both sides of, you know, the presidential candidates, shall we say. And one

00:30:38.760 comes to mind, I saw one of Trump's former national security advisors doing a big conference. This is

00:30:46.340 after, um, there was, you know, the whole uproar about president Biden's cognition. And he was

00:30:53.500 talking about how he had war gamed through nuclear war scenarios that take place. Um, he was talking

00:31:00.320 about how, you know, the president has to make a decision in hours and, you know, from my book,

00:31:04.800 that's not true. And so, and I've also, you know, I cannot tell you how many people have said to me

00:31:11.260 before the book published, and these are knowledgeable people that are not specifically

00:31:16.040 in command and control have said, Oh, Annie, we have an interceptor program that would take care of

00:31:22.120 that. Or you hear now, Oh, we have an iron door. This is not, this is not accurate. We have 44

00:31:29.580 interceptor missiles. The Russians have that part of your book is a part.

00:31:34.800 Oh, your book is so terrifying because there's two things that we have. And we, we don't have

00:31:40.060 any hardening to speak of for EMP. And we don't have, we have, what'd you say? 41, um, interceptors.

00:31:50.320 When you take the reader through that part of the book, you're like, I, I mean, I've been living

00:31:58.360 inside of a lie to make me, to make it, uh, possible for me to sleep at night. But that this,

00:32:07.940 none of this is, is happening. None, none, nobody's taking this seriously.

00:32:13.900 So take us back again to what it, what, what happens at the end? Cause I want to move on to

00:32:19.420 a couple of other, other books and we're going to run out of time.

00:32:24.100 So nuclear winter is what happens. And like everything in the book, readers can be reading

00:32:32.420 about what I'm writing and then they can go back into the note section. If they want to understand

00:32:38.680 where did she get this information? Because it's not from Annie Jacobson's imagination.

00:32:43.460 Tragically, this is science fact, not science fiction. For the nuclear winter section, I was

00:32:52.000 able to interview professor Brian Toon, who is one of the original five authors on the nuclear winter

00:32:59.480 theory that Carl Sagan is so famous for. But in fact, there were five of them. Toon was the young

00:33:06.160 student of Sagan at the time. And he spent decades since. Interestingly, so nuclear winter is exactly

00:33:13.320 like it sounds like the sun blots out from 330 billion pounds of soot that gets lofted into the

00:33:25.320 atmosphere from the result of all the nuclear weapons and the mega fires and the cyclones of fire that

00:33:33.020 they produce and the forest burning and the nuclear power plants melting and the heat bogs on fire.

00:33:42.280 The pyrotoxins, the cities, it just all lofts into the troposphere and it blots out the sun.

00:33:51.080 And the original idea, because the computer modeling was not anything near what it is today when the

00:33:58.180 paper came out in 1983, the original idea was this could last for a year or so. And now state-of-the-art

00:34:05.200 climate modeling shows it could last for seven, eight, maybe even 10 years. Seventy percent reduction

00:34:13.280 in some. The temperature of the earth falls something like 37 degrees. Large bodies of water from

00:34:22.060 Iowa to Ukraine in the mid-latitudes of the globe just get frozen over. And that is the death of

00:34:30.120 agriculture. And without food, five billion people will die in total, according to these models.

00:34:38.920 Never mind, we haven't gotten into the radiation poisoning and the pathogens and the return of

00:34:44.040 plague. And so man returns to his hunter-gatherer state. And, you know, the most haunting quote in all

00:34:52.280 of this, when I think about nuclear winter, and you think about the survivors, is the quote from Nikita

00:34:58.280 Khrushchev, when he wrote to Kennedy and he said, after a nuclear war, the survivors would envy the dead.

00:35:08.680 Okay, final moments with Annie Jacobson in just a second. First, let me tell you about Berna. B-Y-R-N-A.

00:35:17.320 Most self-defense situations can be handled with a gun, but that doesn't mean they all should be handled

00:35:22.360 with a gun. I believe wholeheartedly in the Second Amendment, but I also believe in the power of having

00:35:27.960 options because I know I'll be held responsible, not just on this citizenship, but my first citizenship

00:35:33.720 as well. They have to be threatening my life and the life of my family and my children. And sometimes

00:35:41.720 it doesn't take lethal force. That's where the Berna launcher comes in. I have it. My team has it.

00:35:48.120 It's a great complement to our firearms because there are situations where less lethal is the

00:35:53.800 way to go. And Berna is the best alternative to deadly force. It fires powerful deterrents like

00:35:59.640 tear gas and kinetic rounds. All the things that could incapacitate an attacker for up to 40 minutes.

00:36:06.400 Governments and agencies and police are all using this now. They're getting rid of their taser and

00:36:11.880 they're replacing it with a Berna launcher. Have a choice. I want you to go to Berna.com right now.

00:36:18.120 Berna.com slash Glenn. Get a 10% discount right now. Berna.com slash Glenn.

00:36:25.560 Thank you for all of your hard work on this subject. It was very eye-opening and I have urged over and

00:36:33.980 over again my listeners to read your book because it's a get sober quick kind of call on what we're

00:36:47.100 dealing with. So let me switch topics and we're probably only going to have a chance to talk about

00:36:51.960 one more thing. Annie, I have

00:36:55.560 I've always strangely and maybe it's because my name is Beck

00:37:00.500 that ever since I was a kid I wondered what

00:37:04.680 the Becks did in Germany. My

00:37:07.900 my line came over here back in the 1800s

00:37:11.680 but I know there's family members over in and I don't even want to look

00:37:16.080 you know what I mean? I kind of hang my hat and I know I'm not related to him

00:37:19.640 I'm pretty sure I'm not but I kind of

00:37:21.500 hang my hat on well General Beck tried to kill Hitler so maybe that 0.79

00:37:25.640 maybe I'm from that line 0.70

00:37:26.760 because of the cowardice and

00:37:31.100 and and the decisions that were made sometimes

00:37:37.760 just the decisions that were made

00:37:41.620 people turned into monsters

00:37:43.940 absolute monsters

00:37:45.600 and I've been fascinated by it and I've done a lot of research on the Holocaust

00:37:51.560 and and the roots of it I mean it's it's happened 18 times if there's something

00:37:57.400 in the water

00:37:59.120 that I think it's an actual evil that has been trying to kill the Jews over and 0.98

00:38:05.200 over and over again and it keeps jumping from one place to another

00:38:08.200 and I look at the sickness in our own

00:38:14.240 country

00:38:15.240 we are our early progressives

00:38:18.900 the eugenics progressives here in America that we're doing you know 0.61

00:38:23.380 sterilization everything else

00:38:24.960 we sent that over there

00:38:27.320 we helped them perfect it

00:38:29.680 then they took it

00:38:30.980 a whole you know a whole nother

00:38:33.840 uh uh football field or six

00:38:36.880 down the road and

00:38:38.640 and and then instead of stopping it

00:38:42.460 we reintroduced the poison back into our system

00:38:47.660 and uh I've really struggled as I

00:38:52.760 worked on Wernher von Braun and I read something in your book that I

00:38:56.900 I didn't know I always thought it was well we're not sure

00:39:00.880 but you say that Wernher von Braun who got us to the moon

00:39:04.640 uh actually was handpicking

00:39:08.600 the Jewish slaves from Buchenwald

00:39:12.000 to help him work on his rockets

00:39:14.800 everywhere else says

00:39:16.800 well he didn't he may not have known he didn't know

00:39:19.800 I've always thought that was impossible

00:39:21.280 but you say for sure he did know

00:39:23.920 he handpicked them

00:39:25.000 is this guy that we look at a total monster?

00:39:30.300 you know your intro to that is is very interesting

00:39:35.400 because you're asking people to think about

00:39:39.220 the psychological the psychology behind becoming evil

00:39:45.020 and you know you're asking at least what I'm hearing is

00:39:49.000 is it a slippery slope?

00:39:50.700 you know we are not born evil

00:39:52.620 is it a slippery slope?

00:39:55.220 and in looking at you're absolutely right

00:39:57.700 we know from the documents in the Bundesarchives that I visited

00:40:01.100 in Germany to report the book

00:40:03.460 with a German PhD who was translating for me

00:40:06.940 in real time okay

00:40:08.500 that von Braun was at Buchenwald

00:40:14.160 with Colonel Pister who was the commandant

00:40:16.760 and was handpicking people who looked healthy enough

00:40:20.560 to be able to build his rockets as part of the slave labor teams 0.98

00:40:24.660 in the Nordhausen death factory

00:40:27.000 the rocket factory

00:40:27.960 and so when you are able to get that kind of specificity

00:40:32.100 you can pin I believe a culpability on someone

00:40:35.500 that may be different than he wore a Nazi suit

00:40:39.980 still if you wear a Nazi suit 0.92

00:40:42.120 as far as my eye you're a Nazi 0.85

00:40:43.620 but once there are there's documentation about that

00:40:46.680 you know von Braun is peculiar

00:40:48.940 because like all the Nazi scientists 0.77

00:40:51.280 who came to America after the war

00:40:52.900 not a single one of them ever in my research

00:40:58.240 and there were 1600 of them that came

00:41:00.760 I focused on 23 specifically in Operation Paperclip

00:41:05.160 these were people who were very close to Himmler, Hitler, Goering 0.62

00:41:08.980 I mean we're talking top Nazis 0.52

00:41:10.660 not in one place anywhere ever

00:41:15.200 did any of them ever ask forgiveness

00:41:20.400 they glossed over what they had done

00:41:25.400 and just went pro-America

00:41:28.120 pro-democracy

00:41:29.360 pro-science

00:41:31.060 so to my eye

00:41:33.080 that says something about the man

00:41:36.420 because

00:41:37.340 if you cannot admit

00:41:40.240 what you participated in

00:41:43.240 dot dot dot

00:41:44.580 you talk about

00:41:48.540 and I don't remember the names

00:41:49.740 but you talk about

00:41:50.880 a

00:41:51.340 a gas

00:41:53.780 I think it was a gas

00:41:54.720 that was made into

00:41:57.160 bombs

00:41:58.220 that we had no idea

00:42:00.220 nobody had any idea

00:42:01.680 that Hitler never used

00:42:04.280 that was

00:42:05.440 that could have changed the course of the war

00:42:09.000 and the people who

00:42:10.880 designed that

00:42:12.900 and were involved in that

00:42:15.120 that came over here

00:42:16.360 talk about that

00:42:17.980 mm-hmm

00:42:19.160 you're referring to

00:42:21.240 Otto Ambrose

00:42:22.860 who is one of the most odious human beings

00:42:26.380 I've ever

00:42:27.100 researched and reported on

00:42:29.220 the A in Ambrose

00:42:32.380 is the A in sarin gas

00:42:35.440 S-A-R-I-N 1.00

00:42:37.240 and Ambrose was Hitler's favorite chemist 0.90

00:42:42.320 he was also in charge of the Buna

00:42:44.940 which is synthetic rubber

00:42:46.420 the Buna slave labor factory at Auschwitz 0.97

00:42:50.640 he was a cruel and murderous human being

00:42:55.300 he was tried and convicted at Nuremberg 0.90

00:42:59.580 and we got him out of prison

00:43:02.500 so he could consult for Operation Paperclip

00:43:04.940 I found in the National Archives

00:43:07.680 in a dusty file

00:43:09.400 with a rusty piece of paperclip on it

00:43:11.940 that I don't think had been read in decades

00:43:13.700 an award that Hitler gave Otto Ambrose

00:43:17.400 which was a 1 million Reichsmarks bonus

00:43:21.580 for having invented synthetic rubber for the Reich

00:43:25.040 they needed treads for the tanks

00:43:27.260 and you know

00:43:28.220 once we got him out of prison

00:43:30.160 and made him a paperclip

00:43:31.540 we restored his money to his family

00:43:35.060 and so you're talking about

00:43:38.400 you ask the question why

00:43:40.620 well the United States decided

00:43:43.280 that the new enemy was Russia 0.87

00:43:47.560 which kind of loops us back

00:43:49.360 to the nuclear war concept

00:43:50.940 as early as 1945

00:43:53.200 when you really drill down on it

00:43:55.740 you can see how the war department

00:43:58.200 now the defense department

00:43:59.560 predicted that it was going to have

00:44:02.300 an all out total war

00:44:04.340 with the Soviet Union

00:44:05.400 and the idea was

00:44:07.740 is we needed to get those

00:44:09.300 odious Nazi scientists 0.97

00:44:10.900 on our side 0.96

00:44:12.340 to develop our weapons

00:44:14.220 because they did have weapons

00:44:16.120 that were advanced

00:44:17.440 beyond what the United States

00:44:19.900 had developed by 10 or so years

00:44:22.900 so we got the Nazi scientists 0.72

00:44:25.940 with the idea of

00:44:26.760 if we don't get them

00:44:28.240 the Russians will 0.96

00:44:29.780 well there is another option

00:44:33.460 we introduce them to Jesus

00:44:35.980 I mean honestly

00:44:38.040 I'm reading it

00:44:39.800 and I'm thinking 1.00

00:44:40.760 shoot the guy in the head 1.00

00:44:44.420 he doesn't then go to Russia 1.00

00:44:46.720 he doesn't continue to develop

00:44:49.260 for anyone else

00:44:50.200 I really am struggling

00:44:52.220 with this portion of history

00:44:53.960 of thinking

00:44:55.500 did we poison ourselves

00:44:59.640 by bringing them in

00:45:01.540 wouldn't it have been better

00:45:03.140 to say

00:45:04.280 sorry

00:45:05.080 justice trumps everything 0.70

00:45:07.680 but I know

00:45:09.560 most scholars would

00:45:11.440 disagree with that

00:45:12.980 because they brought

00:45:13.960 not so much to us

00:45:14.920 but that's

00:45:16.240 that's fruit

00:45:17.160 from a really bad tree

00:45:19.200 was it a mistake

00:45:21.600 you know

00:45:23.260 a section of

00:45:25.440 Operation Paperclip

00:45:26.900 deals with the Nuremberg trials

00:45:28.760 and specifically

00:45:29.380 the doctors trials

00:45:30.660 because

00:45:31.020 the Nazi doctors 0.83

00:45:32.520 experimented on humans

00:45:34.100 to make

00:45:34.660 you know

00:45:35.380 pilots fly faster

00:45:36.760 further and farther

00:45:37.800 and they

00:45:38.640 experimented on humans

00:45:40.140 to perfect biological weapons

00:45:41.820 and chemical weapons

00:45:43.040 and those

00:45:44.940 doctors were

00:45:46.140 particularly odious

00:45:47.580 to my eye

00:45:48.440 and I looked at that

00:45:49.760 the hardest

00:45:50.800 and so yes

00:45:52.220 I had an experience

00:45:53.660 as I was writing that book

00:45:54.960 and reporting it

00:45:55.680 which was

00:45:56.060 why weren't they hung

00:45:57.960 and that is a question

00:46:00.140 that I take the reader

00:46:01.120 through in the book

00:46:02.200 you know

00:46:03.160 on balance

00:46:04.420 the other idea

00:46:05.700 about it

00:46:06.220 and certainly

00:46:06.760 this is my role

00:46:07.780 in history

00:46:08.580 if you will

00:46:09.240 is to write books

00:46:10.500 about it

00:46:11.000 because

00:46:11.260 I believe

00:46:12.440 like Eisenhower

00:46:13.560 once said

00:46:14.300 that an alert

00:46:15.800 and knowledgeable

00:46:16.720 citizenry

00:46:17.700 is the balance

00:46:19.380 to national security

00:46:21.400 because Glenn

00:46:22.440 you and I both

00:46:23.300 know

00:46:23.620 the world

00:46:24.380 is a really

00:46:24.940 antagonistic place

00:46:26.280 there are

00:46:27.080 sinister forces

00:46:28.280 you know

00:46:28.820 and there are

00:46:30.220 people

00:46:31.020 intending on doing

00:46:32.480 harm

00:46:32.760 and war

00:46:33.520 everywhere

00:46:34.140 and so you

00:46:35.180 must have

00:46:36.300 a strong

00:46:36.900 national security

00:46:37.880 the peace force

00:46:39.340 idea

00:46:39.880 never worked

00:46:40.820 but

00:46:42.160 the alert

00:46:43.660 and knowledgeable

00:46:44.760 citizenry

00:46:46.000 is what will

00:46:46.940 balance out

00:46:48.260 these bananas

00:46:50.080 ideas

00:46:50.980 that the president

00:46:51.900 you know

00:46:52.720 is barely capable

00:46:53.720 of making decisions 0.99

00:46:55.420 these ridiculous ideas 0.76

00:46:57.200 that his national 0.90

00:46:58.180 security advisors

00:46:59.060 don't really know

00:47:00.400 how fast

00:47:01.620 everything would happen

00:47:02.500 if it happened

00:47:03.200 this idea

00:47:04.600 that sort of

00:47:05.180 popularity

00:47:06.020 and politics

00:47:07.040 is more important

00:47:08.080 than national security

00:47:09.660 that to me

00:47:10.740 is the danger

00:47:11.860 and it's why

00:47:12.540 I don't write

00:47:13.540 about politics

00:47:14.480 because I can speak

00:47:15.920 freely

00:47:16.420 to people

00:47:17.740 on every side

00:47:18.880 of the aisle

00:47:19.420 about this

00:47:20.020 the big takeaway

00:47:21.060 is

00:47:21.500 no one's for

00:47:22.800 nuclear war

00:47:23.580 let's advance

00:47:25.020 forward

00:47:25.660 let's evolve

00:47:26.880 into people

00:47:28.280 who can

00:47:28.720 balance these ideas

00:47:30.060 that we're talking

00:47:30.820 about

00:47:31.200 understand

00:47:31.980 that

00:47:32.580 you know

00:47:33.260 the desire

00:47:34.220 for power

00:47:35.160 and land

00:47:37.160 shall we say

00:47:37.860 is perhaps

00:47:38.660 part of the

00:47:39.580 human condition

00:47:41.000 but let's move

00:47:42.440 in a direction

00:47:43.040 where we evolve

00:47:43.880 one way

00:47:44.400 not the other

00:47:45.160 Annie

00:47:47.420 just your opinion

00:47:49.120 on a few things

00:47:50.160 you know

00:47:53.100 the world

00:47:53.560 just doesn't seem

00:47:54.740 the elites

00:47:55.840 just don't seem

00:47:56.920 to want to ever

00:47:57.740 look for the truth

00:47:59.200 they don't seem

00:47:59.980 to want to find

00:48:01.060 a few answers

00:48:01.860 and that always

00:48:03.140 makes me

00:48:03.780 very suspicious

00:48:05.400 Nord Stream

00:48:06.980 nobody really

00:48:08.300 wants to know

00:48:08.940 the truth on that

00:48:09.840 and there's only

00:48:13.160 a few of us

00:48:13.840 that could do

00:48:14.460 something like that

00:48:15.780 does your gut

00:48:17.440 tell you

00:48:17.840 do you have

00:48:18.260 an opinion

00:48:18.640 on that

00:48:19.040 or care to

00:48:19.540 share an opinion

00:48:20.160 on that

00:48:20.600 did we do that

00:48:21.440 I'm gonna

00:48:23.900 I'm gonna withhold

00:48:25.360 my opinion

00:48:26.140 on that

00:48:26.720 simply because

00:48:28.160 I'm not educated

00:48:29.040 enough on it

00:48:29.800 like I may

00:48:30.740 have a very

00:48:31.260 strong opinion

00:48:31.880 but I would

00:48:32.280 have to really

00:48:33.160 drill down

00:48:33.760 on learning

00:48:34.200 about that

00:48:34.680 first

00:48:35.020 what I can

00:48:35.900 tell you

00:48:36.300 from writing

00:48:37.200 what I can

00:48:39.140 tell you

00:48:39.480 from writing

00:48:39.900 surprise kill

00:48:40.900 vanish

00:48:41.320 about the

00:48:41.840 CIA's

00:48:42.540 paramilitary

00:48:43.280 is an important

00:48:44.800 basic concept

00:48:46.380 that you know

00:48:48.020 listeners may

00:48:48.800 value

00:48:49.220 which is that

00:48:49.900 the president

00:48:50.820 has three

00:48:51.400 options always

00:48:52.480 when dealing

00:48:53.180 with hostile

00:48:53.760 enemies

00:48:54.260 hostile nations

00:48:55.700 one is diplomacy

00:48:57.300 two is war

00:48:59.380 and three

00:49:00.620 is covert

00:49:01.820 action

00:49:02.520 what is

00:49:03.180 covert action

00:49:04.080 sabotage

00:49:05.580 subversion

00:49:06.700 the top of the

00:49:08.020 list is

00:49:08.400 assassination

00:49:08.920 those are

00:49:10.340 actions that

00:49:11.320 the central

00:49:11.760 intelligence agency

00:49:12.660 has taken

00:49:13.520 since its

00:49:14.200 inception

00:49:14.720 in 1947

00:49:16.040 I write about

00:49:17.660 it in surprise

00:49:18.540 kill vanish

00:49:19.180 from the people 0.90

00:49:20.500 who actually

00:49:21.040 participated in

00:49:22.260 these operations

00:49:23.500 again always

00:49:25.100 in the name

00:49:25.880 of national

00:49:26.420 security

00:49:26.860 to prevent

00:49:28.520 nuclear world

00:49:29.400 war three

00:49:29.920 so readers

00:49:30.880 can read

00:49:31.480 that

00:49:31.720 it leads

00:49:33.860 us into

00:49:34.480 such dark

00:49:35.640 places

00:49:36.100 if that

00:49:36.860 is your

00:49:37.620 golden calf

00:49:38.820 national

00:49:40.040 security

00:49:40.720 it leads

00:49:42.220 you to

00:49:42.940 things

00:49:43.720 and I

00:49:44.300 don't know

00:49:44.700 what's true

00:49:45.280 and what's

00:49:45.780 not but

00:49:46.400 you know

00:49:48.440 the idea

00:49:49.540 that you

00:49:50.720 know in the

00:49:51.200 war we

00:49:52.100 would put

00:49:52.880 people in

00:49:53.520 compromising

00:49:54.260 positions

00:49:55.200 so we

00:49:56.700 could blackmail

00:49:57.420 them and

00:49:58.080 work

00:49:59.000 well

00:49:59.520 I mean

00:50:00.940 isn't that

00:50:02.760 what happened

00:50:04.000 with the man

00:50:05.040 who hung

00:50:05.880 himself in

00:50:06.780 prison

00:50:07.100 was that

00:50:08.020 an operation

00:50:09.000 Jeffrey Epstein

00:50:10.160 or was he

00:50:12.600 just

00:50:12.980 I don't know

00:50:14.880 just the

00:50:15.420 luckiest

00:50:16.460 really bad

00:50:18.340 guy to

00:50:18.980 live that

00:50:19.640 nobody caught

00:50:20.620 on to that

00:50:21.240 for such a

00:50:21.840 long time

00:50:22.460 I mean

00:50:24.160 it just

00:50:25.160 we are

00:50:25.680 making

00:50:26.140 we're

00:50:29.260 dismissing

00:50:30.420 George

00:50:30.740 Washington

00:50:31.220 and we're

00:50:32.620 dismissing

00:50:33.420 Eisenhower

00:50:34.260 and if we

00:50:35.580 would have

00:50:35.820 listened to

00:50:36.260 their farewell

00:50:36.900 addresses

00:50:37.460 and done

00:50:38.420 what those

00:50:39.020 two presidents

00:50:39.620 just that's

00:50:40.160 all you have

00:50:40.620 to just

00:50:41.160 do what

00:50:41.760 those two

00:50:42.300 presidents

00:50:42.700 said

00:50:43.040 never forget

00:50:44.440 these things

00:50:45.420 we wouldn't

00:50:46.680 have these

00:50:47.260 problems

00:50:47.700 but we're

00:50:48.260 in the name

00:50:49.780 of national

00:50:50.340 security

00:50:50.880 we have

00:50:51.420 compromised

00:50:52.020 our values

00:50:53.040 over and

00:50:53.920 over and

00:50:54.580 over again

00:50:55.440 and I don't

00:50:57.460 think it's

00:50:57.900 going to end

00:50:58.340 well if we

00:50:58.860 don't wake

00:51:00.080 up and

00:51:00.780 you know

00:51:01.720 how does this

00:51:02.260 end up with

00:51:02.800 the shooting

00:51:03.660 of Donald

00:51:04.540 Trump

00:51:04.880 I don't know

00:51:06.280 who to trust

00:51:07.020 Americans don't 1.00

00:51:08.080 know who to

00:51:08.560 trust

00:51:09.060 because

00:51:10.340 there are

00:51:12.520 other operators

00:51:13.660 that America

00:51:15.000 has always

00:51:15.700 felt she was

00:51:16.540 the good

00:51:16.860 guy

00:51:17.160 because I

00:51:18.720 think the

00:51:19.120 American

00:51:19.560 public is

00:51:21.120 generally good

00:51:22.200 they want to

00:51:23.400 help other

00:51:23.900 people they

00:51:24.400 want to save

00:51:25.120 other people

00:51:25.660 they want to

00:51:26.180 do these

00:51:26.560 things but

00:51:28.480 under the

00:51:29.460 surface in

00:51:30.820 the name of

00:51:31.680 the American

00:51:32.340 people our

00:51:35.100 secret services

00:51:36.860 have bastardized

00:51:40.220 everything we

00:51:41.340 stand for and

00:51:42.360 think we stand

00:51:43.300 for and

00:51:45.340 shown it to

00:51:46.400 the rest of

00:51:46.960 the world

00:51:47.320 without us

00:51:47.940 really even

00:51:48.640 seeing it

00:51:49.320 and I don't

00:51:51.300 know what to

00:51:51.700 do about it

00:51:52.320 how do we

00:51:53.860 solve that

00:51:54.640 I think I

00:51:56.780 mean I am an

00:51:57.320 optimist at

00:51:57.940 heart I'm also

00:51:58.700 a pragmatist

00:51:59.740 so how do

00:52:01.340 you do that

00:52:01.940 I mean you

00:52:02.840 you having a

00:52:03.820 podcast is

00:52:05.840 absolutely part

00:52:07.340 and parcel to

00:52:08.020 what Eisenhower

00:52:08.880 was talking about

00:52:09.660 when he said

00:52:10.300 an alert and

00:52:11.460 knowledgeable

00:52:11.840 citizenry me

00:52:13.000 writing books

00:52:13.900 people reading

00:52:15.120 things I'm all

00:52:16.180 about information

00:52:17.340 and knowledge

00:52:18.160 the phrase that

00:52:19.660 comes to mind

00:52:20.620 is you can't

00:52:22.520 fix what you

00:52:23.400 can't face

00:52:24.280 and so armed

00:52:26.040 with knowledge

00:52:26.760 you begin to

00:52:27.820 have a better

00:52:28.620 idea about

00:52:29.660 hmm what is it

00:52:32.060 that I might be

00:52:33.080 ignoring and

00:52:34.160 then a person

00:52:34.900 gets to ask

00:52:35.760 that question

00:52:36.640 in their own

00:52:37.760 self in their

00:52:38.940 own families in

00:52:40.320 their own

00:52:40.640 communities

00:52:41.180 and I think

00:52:42.400 then the

00:52:42.800 conversation

00:52:43.440 becomes even

00:52:44.200 more interesting

00:52:45.340 and valuable

00:52:46.040 because you're

00:52:46.780 absolutely right

00:52:47.580 you can say

00:52:48.140 wait a minute

00:52:48.840 the CIA has

00:52:49.580 been doing all

00:52:50.080 these things

00:52:50.660 for decades

00:52:51.420 okay maybe

00:52:53.000 they are doing

00:52:53.720 and then you

00:52:54.560 can make a

00:52:55.100 decision as

00:52:55.800 corny as it

00:52:57.000 is you know

00:52:58.100 you just go to

00:52:58.620 the voting

00:52:58.980 booth that's

00:52:59.980 really where

00:53:00.480 the power

00:53:00.900 lies

00:53:01.420 yeah

00:53:02.540 Annie thank

00:53:04.400 you so much

00:53:05.020 and I hope

00:53:05.840 we can talk

00:53:06.420 again even

00:53:07.200 even if once

00:53:08.140 in a while I

00:53:08.620 could call you

00:53:09.240 offline because

00:53:10.020 I I'm struggling

00:53:11.180 with many of the

00:53:11.920 things that you

00:53:12.560 have written

00:53:13.320 about and

00:53:14.640 trying to find

00:53:15.560 and I think

00:53:15.980 all Americans

00:53:16.600 are just trying

00:53:17.280 to find their

00:53:17.760 way to some

00:53:19.220 sort of sanity

00:53:20.720 and it's it's

00:53:23.700 hard to find

00:53:24.320 and your books

00:53:25.280 are very very

00:53:27.000 clear well

00:53:27.880 researched well

00:53:28.880 written I love

00:53:30.700 listening to you

00:53:31.500 read them

00:53:32.180 because you're

00:53:32.780 just so good

00:53:33.320 at it and I

00:53:34.240 can't thank you

00:53:35.100 enough as an

00:53:35.900 American citizen

00:53:36.700 for what you do

00:53:37.640 thank you

00:53:38.440 thank you so much

00:53:40.220 for having me

00:53:40.780 it was a pleasure

00:53:41.440 just a reminder

00:53:47.880 I'd love you to

00:53:49.440 rate and subscribe

00:53:50.340 to the podcast

00:53:51.260 and pass this on

00:53:52.100 to a friend

00:53:52.560 so it can be

00:53:53.200 discovered by

00:53:53.720 other people

00:54:00.700 what are the

00:54:05.180 the

00:54:06.560 the

00:54:07.900 the

00:54:08.920 the

00:54:11.140 the

00:54:11.280 the

00:54:11.880 the

00:54:12.940 the

00:54:13.300 the

00:54:13.700 the

00:54:13.780 the

00:54:14.300 the

00:54:15.440 the

00:54:15.560 the

00:54:16.340 the

00:54:17.660 the

00:54:17.920 the

The Glenn Beck Program - August 17, 2024

Ep 223 ｜ What Nuclear War Under Joe Biden Would Look Like ｜ Annie Jacobsen ｜ The Glenn Beck Podcast

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