The Glenn Beck Program - Ep 241 ｜ People, Angels & Demons： Do They Walk Among Us？｜ The Glenn Beck Podcast

00:00:00.000 Hey, Richard. Great to speak to you.

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00:00:34.000 I think it was the philosopher Madonna that said we are living in a material world.

00:00:41.000 She was wrong. We actually live in a spiritual world.

00:00:45.000 We live in the kind of world where the haunted house on the block gives us the heebie jeebies.

00:00:51.000 And, you know, where where we like people because we get a good feeling.

00:00:56.000 There is no material explanation for that.

00:01:00.000 The only explanation is that there is more to life that we can see maybe entire dimensions of reality that we're oblivious to.

00:01:08.000 Do we live in a world with angels and demons?

00:01:12.000 And if we don't, why do we find the idea so fascinating?

00:01:16.000 Does it say something about us today?

00:01:19.000 I have an expert with me.

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00:01:22.000 He is he's a guy who has studied the hidden and almost magical world of symbolism.

00:01:29.000 He can explain why, whether it's in our fairy tales or our conspiracy theories.

00:01:35.000 I'm going to talk about all of them.

00:01:37.000 And what does it say about us?

00:01:39.000 But we always tell the same stories.

00:01:42.000 Welcome, renowned Christian artist, public intellectual and the host of the symbolic world, Jonathan Pago.

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00:03:45.000 I said a few weeks ago that there's something going on with all of us.

00:03:55.000 You know, the the pizza gate people, they were wrong, but they weren't wrong in some ways.

00:04:02.000 You know what I mean?

00:04:03.000 There's this collective.

00:04:04.000 This collective feeling that elites are raping our children and we don't have any evidence.

00:04:14.000 We don't have.

00:04:15.000 I don't know where this has come from, but we now know it looks like that's true all over the world.

00:04:22.000 What is that?

00:04:25.000 What?

00:04:26.000 What is that?

00:04:28.000 Well, a good way to understand it is, you know, that famous conspiracy theory about the lizard people is a good way to understand it.

00:04:35.000 And what happens is people have an insight about our leadership and the insight is something like our leaders are supposed to be there for us, but they're not.

00:04:45.000 They're there for something else.

00:04:47.000 And what it is that they want or what it is they're doing isn't clear.

00:04:50.000 They want something else.

00:04:51.000 They want power.

00:04:52.000 They see us as just something to feed upon, you know.

00:04:56.000 And so that gets structured in images.

00:04:59.000 And the image of the lizard person is a great image.

00:05:01.000 Like they look like humans, but they're actually some other thing.

00:05:05.000 I've said a million times and I, I know they're not lizard people, but would you be surprised if they pulled off a mask?

00:05:12.000 It would make more sense.

00:05:13.000 Yeah.

00:05:14.000 You know what I mean?

00:05:15.000 And so that's the way to think about it is you can see these types of crazy conspiracy theories.

00:05:19.000 Pizzagate's another example where some of the details of the thing people are seeing are wrong and they're kind of crazy and over the top.

00:05:26.000 You know, they get into conspiracy minded, like crazy conspiracy minded ideas.

00:05:31.000 But if you think of the people as like a tuning fork, you know, and they get a sense, they kind of, they start to vibrate and they, they start to sound an alarm.

00:05:41.000 Like there's something wrong.

00:05:42.000 There's something wrong about the way that our leaders are acting with us.

00:05:45.000 We have to listen.

00:05:46.000 We don't have to take all the details seriously, but usually they have the, the sense that they have is probably right.

00:05:53.000 And so we can look through the mythological images and realize that, you know, even if, you know, I don't believe in actual lizard people, but the image, but the image of the serpent, you know, in the garden telling it's, it's, it's, we shouldn't be thinking about the serpent or the lizard.

00:06:10.000 We should be thinking about what is that saying?

00:06:13.000 Yeah. What is it saying about the moment in culture and the way in which we interact with our leaders?

00:06:18.000 And that's true about a lot of conspiracy theorists.

00:06:21.000 You can usually, if you take one step, you, one step back and you look at it, you can kind of understand it.

00:06:27.000 I remember the conspiracy theory in COVID when they said 5G causes COVID, right?

00:06:31.000 And you're like, I don't know, whatever.

00:06:32.000 So you realize, no, actually 5G doesn't cause COVID mechanically, but does 5G cause COVID?

00:06:38.000 Like if we didn't have the connection that we had on the internet and we didn't have all this way of surveilling and of, and of, and of staying in touch with like tracking everyone, would there have been the COVID reaction that there was?

00:06:51.000 And the answer is obviously no, a hundred years ago, people would have died and we would have gone on with our life.

00:06:56.000 And so does 5G cause COVID? Well, in a way, yes, it's not a mechanical cause, but it is something that is like a meaning cause, right? It's related. And the, the people like just the regular Joes, they sense that, but they formulate it in all kinds of weird ways that are sticky. 1.00

00:07:13.000 Uh, and so I think that there are ways to look at the cultural narratives that can help us understand what's happening. If that's what we want, if we want to understand what's happening in the world, it's like, we can look at these cultural narratives from one step removed and we can actually understand what's happening.

00:07:29.000 So what are the cultural narratives that you're seeing that you're like, Oh, well, one of them is the lizard, lizard people. One is a good one to understand. And it has to do with the fetishization of, or the,

00:07:43.000 obsession with that, which is strange. It's a good way of thinking about it, right? So you have your world, right? You have your story, you have your identity, no matter which one it is, it doesn't matter. You have your family. And then there are elements that are strange that don't belong.

00:07:57.000 And what's been happening now for the past, since world war two, really is we're obsessed with that question. So on the one hand, we fetishize that, which is strange. So you have narratives, like basically the idea that, uh, anything that's not my identity is better. Right. So we fetishize other cultures, we fetishize other things, or we, it's the opposite, or we kind of fall into this idea that we're in danger. We have, we're being invaded from without in all kinds of ways.

00:08:24.000 There are people with bad intentions that are trying to influence our children and, or that are trying to come in and take our jobs or whatever it is.

00:08:31.000 But both of those, a step back are absolutely true. Right. Right. Okay. Yeah. And so both of those are showing a moment in culture that is worth noticing, which is that when any culture becomes obsessed with that, which is outside, it signals something about who we are. It signals something about how there's, we're running out of our own, of ourselves. We're running out of fuel. We're on the edge of death, you could say.

00:08:57.100 So the end of a world has a shape. It looks a certain way. When the Roman empire was close to its own, uh, you know, its own fall, the young people were obsessed with the barbarians. They actually like, people would complain that they dressed like the barbarians. They would wear pants and they would wear their hair like their enemy. And so it's like, what, what does that mean? And it, it signals that we're nearing some kind of crisis is a good way to think about it. 0.57

00:09:22.200 So, uh, I got so many questions on just that. So let me, let me start here when it chicken and the egg. Yeah. What's happening first and how do we all connect that? I mean, I find it strange. People are finding God, you know, they're questioning demons. Yeah. Now I talked to atheists who say there's no other way to describe what's happening other than evil. Yeah.

00:09:52.100 And around the world, we're all protesting the same things our governments are doing. This is global in its nature. Um, and that makes it feel otherworldly. Yeah.

00:10:09.100 It makes it feel like it, that evil is an actual force. And I don't think the average American and especially European have been there in a long time. 0.98

00:10:21.140 Yeah. Well, there's definitely something happening. And like you said, there's, there's a phenomenon that's happening in every field simultaneously, which is materialism is running out.

00:10:30.620 The mechanical, you know, explanations of things, the way that we describe things as basically billiard balls bumping into each other is not sufficient. And people are reaching that conclusion in science, in psychology, in all the different fields. Simultaneously, it's the problem of complexity. It's the problem of emergence. They have different ways of talking about it. It's like, how do we account for how multiplicity becomes one? Like how can something be many things like have parts, but then also be, you can see it as one thing.

00:11:00.520 And how does that work in terms of people, right? So it's like, how is America one thing? And America is billions of, it's like millions and millions and millions of things.

00:11:10.760 But if I, if I may, our, our whole country was built on e pluribus unum and our unum were the principles that built us, that we don't, we don't share those anymore.

00:11:23.240 That's right. And that's what I think people are noticing is that the, the way that people join together into one is not arbitrary.

00:11:30.520 There has to be something, it has to be a principle or a principality. You can say it in different ways that is overseeing, or that is binding multiplicity together.

00:11:40.760 Explain principality, interesting word.

00:11:43.920 Well, so principality is an, is a, something like a, a principle, but a principle that's active, right? It's acting on us. And so a boss is a principality for all intents and purposes. You know, so you have a boss, you have a team and the boss is trying to embody the purpose of the team, but he's doing it actively. It's not just a passive principle that we all kind of follow. It's like, if you don't follow this, there'll be punishment.

00:12:08.240 And if you do, there'll be reward and all that stuff.

00:12:10.500 Beyond a, beyond a boss, God and Satan.

00:12:14.820 Satan, but also all kinds of principalities, right? So that's why you, when you said the idea of demons, in some ways we're at a point where the question or the possibility of angels and demons all of a sudden becomes prescient again, where I'm talking to cognitive psychologists and they use fancy words.

00:12:31.960 You know, they, they talk about, you know, they talk about transpersonal agency, right? What are we talking about? What's a transpersonal agency? It means that they're recognizing patterns of agency that are beyond the human person.

00:12:47.640 And they realize that when people act together in groups, that there's something binding them together and there's something making them work towards a single goal and that something like an angel, they won't use the word angel, but that's really what it is that they're slowly kind of pointing to.

00:13:03.980 And that there are some of these transpersonal agencies that spiral into chaos, right? They kind of spiral you down into breakdown. They, they capture you, you know, think about like on a street gang, like a street gang has a type of transpersonal agency, but it's devouring the people inside. 0.87

00:13:22.040 Like it's basically just destroying them. So it's like, well, what's that? Well, that's a demon. That's what we used to call a demon. And now people don't want to use that word, but it's in some ways becoming, it's, we're moving towards a position where it's becoming better to actually use these terms to understand.

00:13:38.360 And it's really to understand because you, what you want to do is to be able to see what's happening and to recognize what's going on. When you have a, like a kind of intellectual fashion or some kind of idea that, that like starts to capture people and push them in a direction, that's a type of agency. It wants something.

00:13:59.260 Okay. So wait, let's just explain a couple of things. Do you believe in evil as an entity?

00:14:06.740 Uh, I would say, I believe that, I mean, I believe in the devil, the DS, I do believe in the devil. I believe that the evil, evil doesn't have its own existence. It's a parasite, right? That's the best way of understanding it. It's like it, it takes something good and it twists it.

00:14:23.800 Correct.

00:14:24.200 Right.

00:14:24.360 But it does, it has its own.

00:14:27.800 It has a coherence to it. It has a type of coherence.

00:14:30.440 And so when you're looking at things happening all around the world, I mean, I think we're seeing possession all the time. You watch people on TV and sometimes they absolutely look possessed. They act like possessed people. And it's all part of this insanity that's going on.

00:14:47.700 And what I want to know is, are you saying that this is a physical thing that you start getting wrapped up into this and then you just go down? Or are you saying, no, no, no, this is an, an outside force that is coming in and invading and we're just ripe for the picking?

00:15:07.760 Yeah. I think the best way to understand it is as, especially for a demon, the best way to understand it is as an outside force. Because the reason why we think of it that way is because let's say the, the transpersonal agency, let's say that's making you drink, let's say, like it doesn't want good for you. It's bringing you on a path that's actually destroying you. 0.81

00:15:31.020 And so if you think about that, like at a higher level in terms of a group, if you have a group that's engaging in absolutely self-destructive behavior, that cannot be, let's say, it cannot be an inner truth. It's an outer truth. It's something that is, that has intentions that are from something else. So you can imagine, like, we have to be careful. We have to, I try to try to keep it as, let's say, grounded as possible, right?

00:15:54.920 So you have a foreign government, right? That foreign government has interest in your government, let's say, falling apart. So they would be willing to influence your people, let's say, funding drug gangs or funding all kinds of things that will bring the breakdown of your, of your, of your people. And so you're like, well, that's a foreign influence, right? And that's how to think about it. 0.65

00:16:17.920 You can think about it in terms of, let's say another government, but sometimes there's also something happening, even at higher levels where you have beings that have other intentions that are affecting us and bringing us towards our own destruction. Usually it has to do with, let's say, just gaining power for that being, right?

00:16:36.860 It's like anger, let's say, in a, in a, in a person, you know, it's like, if you give into the sin of anger, it's like anger wants to be primordial, right? It wants to rule you. It wants to take over all your energies, you know, the gambling, or you can think of all the things that take over people, but that happens in societies too. So, I mean, we've seen like this rainbow stuff, like that's part of, like it's, it's completely coherent and it wants something and it's, it's infecting or it's taking over people's minds.

00:17:06.020 It just is destructive.

00:17:08.340 Yeah. And it's destructive to them, destructive to our society.

00:17:11.760 Everything. And because it's, because it's, you cannot feed it. It just keeps consuming.

00:17:18.360 Yeah.

00:17:18.660 You give and it wants more.

00:17:20.660 Of course.

00:17:21.180 Yeah.

00:17:21.440 Because it wants everything.

00:17:22.880 Right.

00:17:23.300 It wants to take over the entire.

00:17:24.500 And is willing to destroy whatever stands in its way.

00:17:27.600 Exactly. And so that's a good way to understand it. And the best way to understand it, like, so that you don't fall into just woo stuff or like kind of magical thinking,

00:17:35.640 is to think about a foreign influence, like to think about a government that is affecting us.

00:17:40.840 And so let's say for the rainbow stuff, you can realize that there is an actual principality, like a kind of some transpersonal agency, a demon that is, that wants something and is devouring us.

00:17:53.400 And you'll also have foreign agents that are willing to feed that because it's to their advantage that you're destroyed.

00:17:59.520 And so all of this makes sense.

00:18:01.540 Like it, it means that you can trace sometimes the causalities.

00:18:05.240 You can say, oh, I can see that there are people with bad intentions that are influencing us towards something, but they're, they're doing it using a bigger story, which is, you know, basically a coherent path towards destruction.

00:18:19.520 You know, like any society that, any society that starts to emphasize behaviors that lead you away from just having children is a society on its deathbed.

00:18:31.180 It's a society that's moving towards its own destruction.

00:18:33.440 Objective.

00:18:33.960 Yeah.

00:18:34.140 Just very, very objective, like very Darwinian almost.

00:18:37.120 Yeah.

00:18:37.420 Just like, if you don't have children, you stop existing.

00:18:39.820 It's very simple.

00:18:40.700 Right.

00:18:40.900 So you just brought up Darwin.

00:18:44.440 Where did, where did we begin to go wrong this time?

00:18:50.680 Is it Darwin?

00:18:52.040 Is it the bomb?

00:18:53.100 Is it science?

00:18:54.500 What, what is it?

00:18:55.840 Because I've never in my lifetime seen people interact and talk about the things en masse.

00:19:10.900 Like we're talking, I was just sitting here thinking 20 years ago, I could have had you on the podcast and I would have been thinking the whole time.

00:19:17.360 I don't know who's getting this.

00:19:18.900 I don't know who's getting this.

00:19:19.900 I'm interested, but I don't know.

00:19:21.140 It's a cookie guy.

00:19:22.040 But now this is the kind of stuff the average person.

00:19:26.860 They can see it.

00:19:27.700 At least.

00:19:28.120 Yeah.

00:19:28.400 At least can recognize and go, yeah, I think I've seen kind of that.

00:19:32.440 For sure.

00:19:33.120 Our world is based on our world now and all of the positive and negative elements of our world is based on World War II. 0.71

00:19:39.960 It does, it is related to, in some extent to the bomb and also to the, to the, the things that we did during World War II.

00:19:47.620 Because one of the problems you can have, like think about it this way, is that let's say nations have identities.

00:19:54.560 They have a transpersonal type of agency.

00:19:57.040 And during World War II, the fascists got that wrong.

00:20:01.500 They, they treated that as an idol.

00:20:03.040 They basically say like, we have our, this national identity or this ethnic identity, and this is ours and belongs to us.

00:20:09.000 And we're going to like raise it up superior to everybody else.

00:20:12.280 Everything we've been seeing since then, in some ways, has been kind of a reaction to that.

00:20:18.060 So we actually now are very suspicious of identity.

00:20:21.680 And we tend to emphasize things that are diminutive of identity.

00:20:26.920 And so we, we want equality.

00:20:29.100 All these things are not bad in themselves.

00:20:31.360 They're just dangerous if you don't see where, if you push them too far, where it goes.

00:20:35.680 And so we want equality, we, we want difference, we want multiplicity, we want variety.

00:20:42.100 And then if you push that too far, then at some point it becomes decomposition.

00:20:46.680 Because variety without unity is just basically death.

00:20:49.600 It's decomposition.

00:20:50.660 So that's where we are.

00:20:51.920 You can see it.

00:20:52.940 Like after World War II, the next generation become the hippies.

00:20:56.220 And then you can find, you can just cycle it a few cycles.

00:20:59.320 And then you end up with basically like kind of crazy woke culture right now.

00:21:03.640 It's completely, it's directly related.

00:21:06.180 That's why there's a, there's a feeling of Marxism in the wokeism.

00:21:09.620 There's a feeling of like kind of postmodern multiplicity.

00:21:12.720 There's revolutionary ideas in all of the woke stuff.

00:21:15.260 And it's all because I think it's, it's like a wave that started at the end of World War II.

00:21:23.640 More with Jonathan in just a minute.

00:21:25.320 First, let me tell you about the Jace case.

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00:22:49.380 You know, you seem to know history quite well.

00:22:53.720 Uh, is this a cycle?

00:22:57.080 I think that's a good way of thinking about it.

00:22:59.540 You know, that it's hard to know how big the cycle is.

00:23:02.940 I keep saying.

00:23:04.020 It's the biggest in my life.

00:23:05.060 Yeah.

00:23:05.600 You know, this isn't the Jesus movement.

00:23:07.620 Yeah.

00:23:07.840 Of the 70s.

00:23:08.620 This is, there's deep, deep rot.

00:23:12.660 Yeah.

00:23:12.880 I think that that's the best way to think about it is that there are natural cycles, natural in the sense that, you know, that societies and individuals, they emphasize certain things and that leads to certain counterbalance.

00:23:27.720 And so you have this, these kind of cycles that, that the thing that's hard to know is how big is this moment?

00:23:34.820 That's the question.

00:23:35.840 Because we're clearly at the end of something.

00:23:37.620 We kind of feel we're at the end of something.

00:23:39.180 We can even see the new beginning kind of peeking through in these insights.

00:23:44.840 The fact that, for example, people are now normal people who would have thought talking about transpersonal agencies or angels or demons would have thought you were just a kooky, crazy person are now saying, well, actually, no, I kind of see that this is part of the world.

00:23:58.680 This is a new beginning.

00:23:59.820 This is something that's kind of peeking through.

00:24:02.260 That's the green shoot, if you will.

00:24:04.580 Yeah, possibly.

00:24:05.620 It, it, it might also be negative in some ways too, because people are like, oh, you know, there are transpersonal agencies, there are demons.

00:24:12.960 Where can we talk to these people?

00:24:14.580 Can we talk to these beings and, you know, have them influence us?

00:24:17.720 You know, you have these, you have all these stories of, of tech people, you know, who take psychedelics in order to kind of receive information from the other side, you know, even to build their technologies.

00:24:28.580 It's, it's very similar.

00:24:30.120 I don't know if you've ever read the book.

00:24:31.480 I think you'd love it. 0.91

00:24:32.640 Hitler's monsters. 0.93

00:24:33.480 And it was a guy who wanted to write the quintessential book on, he started out, was this a Christian movement or not?

00:24:42.260 And he went back and he found the deep, deep roots.

00:24:45.880 Once you get rid of God, then you start going back to witchcraft and everything else.

00:24:50.540 And he, he showed that you're, Nietzsche is right.

00:24:55.740 Yeah.

00:24:56.000 And you're going to find a God, but their God was a mixture of science, technology, science, and then the occult.

00:25:02.900 Yeah.

00:25:03.440 And that's really kind of where we are now.

00:25:06.500 Yeah.

00:25:06.960 I think, I think you're right.

00:25:08.740 And it is, there is a, there's a kind of a hidden strain of history that most people don't know, which is the development of kind of esoteric and occult thinking.

00:25:17.620 And, and that's definitely now.

00:25:19.940 I mean, now it's weird because it's in the popular sphere.

00:25:22.920 You know, you have people, like regular people who, who are interested in these things, say they're witches or interest, you know, or casting spells.

00:25:30.960 Yeah.

00:25:31.240 It's bizarre.

00:25:31.840 So it's a very, it's, it's like, as if the, this thing that used to be kind of elite and in the secret societies and all this stuff is now become almost like, we have a witchcraft school at the, like two streets from my house.

00:25:43.580 It's like, it's a witchcraft school. 0.98

00:25:45.380 I don't know what they're, they're in Canada.

00:25:47.280 Yeah.

00:25:47.560 Yeah.

00:25:48.540 What are they teaching?

00:25:49.600 Yeah.

00:25:49.840 It's like, I don't know.

00:25:50.880 I mean, I didn't go in to figure out, I'm sure they're teaching people how to cast spells and to do all that stuff.

00:25:55.660 So it's very weird.

00:25:57.980 Yeah.

00:25:58.100 We're in a very, so in every town in Canada, for example, now in Quebec, where I'm from, you know, there used to be, used to be the most Catholic place in the world.

00:26:05.420 And now every little town has like a new age, you know, shop, but the churches are closing down.

00:26:11.780 Yeah.

00:26:12.180 Yeah.

00:26:12.380 So when you say that people are casting spells and new age stuff, people think they're just shredding, it's just shedding religion.

00:26:25.660 Which is a man's, you know, man sees and hears God and then his way to interpret and be able to get a group together and pass that information on through religion.

00:26:40.780 They think they're just shedding that, but it's, you don't just, you can't leave the vacuum.

00:26:48.380 No, that's impossible.

00:26:49.420 And that's why you can see it.

00:26:51.920 And one of the things, it's funny because one of the things that the internet has done is made people aware of these agencies that are running through us because they used to, let's say, these types of agencies used to act on us over long periods of time.

00:27:06.000 So maybe generations, you don't see it, but now we're seeing it happen very quickly because of the internet.

00:27:10.940 So we're seeing these things take over like virality in general.

00:27:14.220 Like you all of a sudden you see something, everybody cares about something for like 10 minutes and then it's gone.

00:27:18.580 And it's like, what is this?

00:27:19.520 How is it mobilizing people?

00:27:21.440 And we're seeing it definitely happen in social spheres.

00:27:24.320 And it seems like one of the things that there was hope or some of the elites wanted to do was realizing that we have this religious problem and trying to substitute it with a kind of green, like a kind of environmental religion.

00:27:38.320 Or also the rainbow type religion, all that stuff presented like the trans is sacred aspect of the LGBT movement, realizing we need some kind of religious theory.

00:27:51.360 And so we're going to do this with these other structures.

00:27:54.880 But religion isn't arbitrary.

00:27:57.080 You can't just decide what it is you get people to care about.

00:27:59.780 It's a religious movement in the, you know, in the BC days.

00:28:05.120 There were times where societies would have these gods and the men would become women and it would celebrate, you know, abortion and all the things that we're doing.

00:28:18.080 We're just casting it in a different light.

00:28:20.480 But it's it's the same thing.

00:28:22.660 When you tell me that, no, there's something that's in you, but it's not physical and it's telling you that you're not really a boy or a girl.

00:28:35.720 You're recasting the soul.

00:28:38.900 Yeah.

00:28:39.380 And then and attaching something to it that the soul wouldn't tell you.

00:28:43.780 Yeah.

00:28:44.380 Yeah.

00:28:44.560 You're feeding on an you're feeding on a narrative and a story and an agency that is beyond your individual.

00:28:51.620 So you can think about it this way.

00:28:53.300 It's that it's pretty simple.

00:28:54.480 Like in terms of phenomena, you can get it.

00:28:56.040 It's like a teenager is in a moment of transition.

00:28:59.660 Right.

00:28:59.880 A teenager is now is not a no longer child is moving away from the parents.

00:29:03.300 And in that moment of transition is the time where you want to cast that being.

00:29:08.340 Right.

00:29:08.700 That's why we would have initiation rituals.

00:29:10.660 We'd have all these kind of things to kind of say we're going to like we're going to take this problem of someone in transition and confused and asking questions and we're going to give it a direction, you know.

00:29:21.100 And so all of the bar mitzvah is a good example.

00:29:23.160 And so it makes sense that there's another force.

00:29:26.880 There are all kinds of things are trying.

00:29:28.400 That's why teenagers are always the, you know, the prey of like rock and roll culture or all these things.

00:29:33.880 And the, I mean, the LGBT stuff is just the most recent one, which is like someone, a teenager is confused and saying, and then they say, well, we have an answer for that confusion.

00:29:43.140 We can explain to you why you don't know who you are.

00:29:46.020 We can explain to you why you have these feelings that make you feel like you're alienated from your body.

00:29:51.200 And it's totally normal when you reach puberty to be alienated from your body because you're going through such rapid changes that you are in some ways becoming a kind of potential for, on which, you know, a community will then like.

00:30:04.660 In your cocoon moment.

00:30:05.240 Exactly.

00:30:05.640 That's a good.

00:30:06.080 So that's the moment to get people.

00:30:07.980 It's like in that moment of puberty, you can completely capture people towards something.

00:30:13.200 Uh, and so we have to, if we're, if we know that, like if we can see it, we have to be able to formulate positive answers because this is one of the issues that we have is that one of the problems that's happened, I think in North America is that we focus so much on like the individual and everything that we just want the teenager, for example, to just like to figure themselves out.

00:30:37.360 But that's not what's happening when you're a teenager.

00:30:39.540 You're actually looking for allegiance.

00:30:41.220 You're looking for, that's why teenagers follow all these weird fashions and all this.

00:30:45.880 So they're looking to, to connect.

00:30:47.720 So we have to find ways to give these teenagers a way to see something beyond themselves and to participate in it.

00:30:55.020 And if we don't, someone else will.

00:30:56.640 So it's, it's, it's interesting because you, the ones who are now waking up generation Z, they're not buying any of this program.

00:31:04.680 Yeah.

00:31:04.900 And they're, they're the ones that I think are going to save the world in the end.

00:31:09.580 They're the hero generation.

00:31:11.220 Um, uh, but we have acquiesced as parents and society.

00:31:19.320 We've acquiesced to the scientists, to the doctors, to the experts, experts.

00:31:23.720 And we just stand there quietly, even though we know the experts have no idea what they're talking about.

00:31:31.320 Yeah.

00:31:31.720 No idea.

00:31:32.340 Yeah.

00:31:32.540 And we're seeing now the results of it.

00:31:35.560 And is that because the churches just became irrelevant?

00:31:40.040 I think it might be in some part because the churches failed to understand the grandeur of what they were holding.

00:31:51.140 And so one of the things that we saw in the late 19th and 20th century is that in some ways the churches became very materialistic.

00:31:58.740 And on the one hand they were like, well, we believe in God, we believe in all this stuff, but we also think that really it's science.

00:32:06.040 Like it really, it's science.

00:32:07.160 Right.

00:32:07.300 Like, uh, but what, but wait, wait, wait, wait, I'm not against science, but I'm not saying that science isn't, isn't real, but science explains mechanical causes.

00:32:16.000 I, it doesn't capture meaning.

00:32:18.360 I think exactly.

00:32:19.860 I think if there is a God, he's the greatest scientist because this is all math.

00:32:25.340 Of course.

00:32:25.840 Okay.

00:32:26.040 But that doesn't mass not behind all this, you know, math is how it, it, it exists and how it works, but that's not the mind behind the math.

00:32:38.600 And that's a good way, it's exactly the way of thinking about it is that humans are a joining of mind and matter, you know, they're a joining of, of intention, of will, of, uh, you know, agency.

00:32:49.560 And capital M mind.

00:32:51.280 Yeah.

00:32:51.840 And so I think that one of the things that happened is in some ways the, the church or the Christians, they lost sight of what they were holding, like the story, the worldview, you could say that they were holding.

00:33:05.220 And they reduced it to morality and science basically.

00:33:10.080 But what we have is way more than that.

00:33:12.700 Like the vision that's presented in the Bible and the vision that's presented in the Christian cosmology or the religious cosmology is something like an orienting structure, right?

00:33:25.000 It helps people understand how to be, how to be with others and how to orient yourself as you move.

00:33:31.500 And if we forget that, then we have this problem, which is that someone else is going to take it from you and someone else is going to, is going to take that from you because that's actually how we exist.

00:33:41.100 And so one of the things we've been trying to do, you know, in the past few years is say, how can we help people connect again with these things?

00:33:48.760 You know, like, that's why, like what I do on the symbolic world is basically help people see how the stories, not just the Bible, but, you know, even like our fairy tales, the different kind of cultural stories that we have, that they are these orienting mechanisms.

00:34:02.820 There are ways for you to identify with a purpose and a group or, you know, a value and then orient yourself with others towards that.

00:34:12.620 You know, so I've, I've often thought, you know, Grimm's fairy tales, they're really grim.

00:34:17.520 The real ones are grim, you know.

00:34:20.200 I know you just redid Snow White and took all the Disney stuff out of it and made it the real tale.

00:34:31.380 These are.

00:34:32.820 These were simply ways to tell a story to prepare you for life.

00:34:39.500 That's what it is.

00:34:40.140 Right?

00:34:40.300 That's right, yeah.

00:34:40.940 In a way you could understand as a child.

00:34:43.480 Yeah, and you didn't even have to understand it.

00:34:46.140 It's like, it really is like how when you train a child in doing something, they don't understand the fullness of what it is that they're doing yet.

00:34:55.180 Right.

00:34:55.360 Because they don't have maturity anyways.

00:34:56.880 It's giving them a kind of pattern of being in which to embark.

00:35:00.500 And that's why people often don't understand the fairy tales.

00:35:03.460 They think that the fairy tales are morality tales, but they're not.

00:35:07.180 They're much deeper than that.

00:35:08.620 They're, they're, they're really are orienting mechanisms.

00:35:11.580 And so that's one of the things we were trying to do with these fairy tales is say, can we represent them to the world in a way that will play that role again?

00:35:20.180 So tell me the story of Snow White.

00:35:22.220 What's, what's important in the actual story of Snow White?

00:35:26.660 Well, the story of Snow White is really a lot of the fairy tales, especially these types of fairy tales, they are about transition.

00:35:33.320 Right?

00:35:33.820 So they're really about a child becoming an adult.

00:35:36.360 And so in the story of Snow White, it's a girl.

00:35:38.700 And so it's like, there is a kind of coming of age aspect to it.

00:35:42.340 There is, there is.

00:35:44.420 And this is funny because a lot of the Christians, they don't like the fact that there's the secular people have told them there's a sexual element to the story.

00:35:51.920 And the truth is there is, but it's not just, it's not just a sexual story, but there is an aspect of it, which has to do with sexual maturation, which has to do with finding your place in the world.

00:36:00.240 And just in general, kind of going through chaos and finding your own identity, right?

00:36:04.280 That basic story trope of you're somewhere, you kind of fall into a kind of confusion and chaos, and then you find your way out and you're in a better place.

00:36:12.000 That's what happens during teenage years, by the way.

00:36:14.660 And so the story of Snow White is about that for a girl, like a girl, a young girl who is innocent and beautiful.

00:36:20.840 As she starts to change, she now at first faces all the negative consequences of that.

00:36:26.060 And jealousy from the other women, all these, all these men that are kind of like a caricature of men, that there are these little men that are like just dopey and sneezy or whatever, that they can't be my maid. 0.98

00:36:38.580 So they're kind of disgusting, right? 0.93

00:36:40.060 These men that, and I have to work and I have to clean the house and I have to serve these men that aren't, and I don't know what it is. 0.76

00:36:47.400 And I've just gone through this kind of chaos where, you know, I'm thrown into the, into this, in this, into this world where everything is changing.

00:36:55.440 And then the story of Snow White is about that image as a kind of death, you know, it is related in some extent to a, to a young girl kind of reaching the age where she starts her menstrual cycle.

00:37:07.180 And so, and then she, then she finds out what it's all about.

00:37:10.340 Like, what is this change for?

00:37:11.560 What is happening?

00:37:12.560 And then she meets the prince.

00:37:13.620 That's what it's for.

00:37:14.320 That's what this whole change was for.

00:37:16.240 Like you're a little girl, you become a woman. 0.96

00:37:18.560 And then you realize it's not just pain and it's not just annoyance.

00:37:22.880 There's something beautiful and powerful that can come out of it.

00:37:25.500 And that's why it ends with a wedding.

00:37:27.040 That's why it ends with like finding the prince.

00:37:28.880 The idea of finding the prince isn't like a ridiculous kind of dream of a little girl.

00:37:34.120 It's like, that's how you make people.

00:37:35.740 That's how society continues.

00:37:37.780 So you don't help children.

00:37:39.040 I have to tell you.

00:37:39.660 It's so obvious, isn't it?

00:37:40.860 It is.

00:37:41.140 It's like, it's so obvious.

00:37:42.000 It is.

00:37:42.460 If you don't help children reach there, then they were going to lose themselves in the forest before they get there.

00:37:47.420 That is fantastic.

00:37:50.900 Disney has given us this little fantasy that you have to have this big elaborate dress and wedding and everything else.

00:37:57.380 And you're going to be a fairy princess.

00:37:58.780 And I hate that as a dad of four, three children, four daughter or three daughters.

00:38:04.100 It drives me out of my mind that that's because that's coming from this.

00:38:11.160 It's coming from the Disney and they've lost everything else.

00:38:15.260 Yeah.

00:38:15.400 Well, right now, Disney, they've basically decided to throw the fairy tales out.

00:38:19.800 They don't want them because what's in them for them is fire.

00:38:23.980 Like they can't touch it.

00:38:25.140 They don't understand it.

00:38:26.560 They just see it through their own little political lens.

00:38:29.660 And so, you know, they're making a version of Snow White now.

00:38:32.380 That's one of the reasons why we published this book was because I found out to the grapevine around 2020, 2021, that Disney was going to put out a version of Snow White live action.

00:38:42.700 And I thought they can't.

00:38:44.280 They can't do it.

00:38:45.380 They can't have.

00:38:46.140 There's so many things in the story that they can't do because of all their because of their kind of weird ideological position.

00:38:51.700 So I thought this is the moment where we need to take these stories back, like take them back, present them beautifully.

00:38:57.940 You know, we have, we're doing it in an amazing way with an amazing illustrator, world-class illustrator, beautiful kind of, like kind of, let's say, yeah, heirloom book, you know, like a treasure, not like a throwaway thing.

00:39:08.320 Something you put up on the shelf and you have to ask your parents, you know, can we read Snow White again?

00:39:12.600 And so that's what we want.

00:39:13.500 It's like, let's do this.

00:39:14.460 Because a lot of conservatives, they complain, you know, it's like we complain about the state of culture.

00:39:19.620 But we don't do anything about it.

00:39:20.420 We don't do anything.

00:39:21.540 And that's what we want to do.

00:39:22.720 So, but I think that's changed.

00:39:24.680 Yeah.

00:39:24.820 I think.

00:39:25.380 I hope so.

00:39:25.920 Yeah, I think so.

00:39:27.200 What other stories are you telling?

00:39:28.660 And so what we're doing is we're doing eight fairy tales, kind of like eight of the most known fairy tales.

00:39:34.220 And we're doing them in a series.

00:39:36.140 So we're doing Snow White.

00:39:37.280 The next one is Jack and the Beanstalk.

00:39:39.440 It's called Jack and the Fallen Giants.

00:39:40.100 Tell me what that really means.

00:39:41.320 So what I wanted to is like I wanted a girl and boy line in the fairy tales, right?

00:39:46.500 So you have a coming of age story of a girl.

00:39:48.540 Then you have the coming of age story of a boy.

00:39:50.640 And Jack, that's what Jack is about.

00:39:52.800 You know, and everything is in the story.

00:39:54.560 You kind of, once you kind of understand the basic images, you can see what it is.

00:39:58.220 So Jack doesn't have a father.

00:40:00.180 You know, he's with his mother and they're running out of food, right?

00:40:04.360 And it's imaged as a cow that's running out of milk.

00:40:08.380 And that's his mother.

00:40:09.460 Like his mother and the cow are related in the sense that she doesn't have a husband.

00:40:12.980 You know, she's running out of fertility. 1.00

00:40:14.820 So is the cow.

00:40:16.200 And so his mom's like, you have to go sell the cow off so that we can have food. 1.00

00:40:20.820 But that means death, right?

00:40:23.160 It's like, I'm just like in the story of Elijah and the widow.

00:40:25.400 It's like, well, I'm just going to go and spend my last money and then we're going to

00:40:29.260 eat the food and then we're going to die.

00:40:31.320 And so Jack discovers seed.

00:40:33.920 So the discovery of seed is both his own transformation into a man, but it's also something more.

00:40:41.000 It's also something like, what's a seed?

00:40:43.760 A seed is like the pattern of food, right?

00:40:46.220 It's not food.

00:40:47.080 It's just one seed.

00:40:47.920 What is that worth?

00:40:48.460 It's nothing.

00:40:49.320 But if you know what it is, if you understand what it is, you can eat forever, right?

00:40:54.400 And so that's, so it's like, it is magic seed, but then seed is magic already because

00:40:59.080 of that's what it is.

00:40:59.940 So the rest of the story is about him becoming a man, facing the problems of manhood, right?

00:41:06.960 Goes up into the, goes up the hierarchy, encounters the men that just want to devour him, right?

00:41:13.100 That just want to use their authority and their power to crush him.

00:41:15.940 And he has to find his way through that, through that pattern and find this hierarchy of patterns.

00:41:22.480 That's a way to think about it, right?

00:41:23.760 So he finds the first a seed and it's like, well, what's better than a seed?

00:41:28.120 You know, it's like seed, you can, what does it mean?

00:41:30.700 What is, I don't know what it means.

00:41:32.540 So he goes up, he goes up into the beanstalk and the first time he gets his bag of gold.

00:41:37.760 That's something like in terms of becoming a man and in terms of understanding what it

00:41:41.640 means to be responsible, what it means to have authority.

00:41:43.960 It's like, if I have gold, I can buy food.

00:41:47.420 Yeah, that's an interesting idea.

00:41:48.640 I don't need food, but I have gold, I can buy food.

00:41:51.480 But then there's a problem, right?

00:41:52.880 That runs out.

00:41:54.460 So what's better than gold?

00:41:56.000 The thing that makes gold.

00:41:57.680 So the next one he gets is a chicken that lays golden eggs. 0.98

00:42:00.020 That sounds stupid in the story, but it's like, well, it doesn't matter. 0.56

00:42:02.540 It's basically, first he finds gold, then he finds the thing that makes gold. 0.99

00:42:06.200 If I can have that, then I'm good.

00:42:08.660 I can eat forever, right?

00:42:10.360 And so that's the story of Jack.

00:42:11.560 And the final one he gets is, and that's the one it took me forever to understand, which

00:42:15.960 is that he first gets gold, then he gets a chicken that lays golden eggs, and then he

00:42:19.700 gets a harp.

00:42:21.060 Thinking, what's the relationship between all that?

00:42:22.980 I can kind of see the other ones, right?

00:42:24.360 It's like value, you know.

00:42:26.660 And what I finally realized is that when he gets the singing harp, he's basically getting

00:42:32.500 the pattern of everything, something like the logos, something like the song of the

00:42:37.620 world or the, you know, the music of the spheres, they used to say.

00:42:41.460 Basically kind of being able to perceive the pattern of everything as he's in the highest

00:42:47.080 point of heaven or something like that.

00:42:49.160 And so that is what makes everything move, right?

00:42:51.520 The music that Aslan created the world with, something like that.

00:42:54.500 That's what he's getting.

00:42:55.360 Right.

00:42:55.640 Yeah.

00:42:55.840 Talk to me about religious stories or fairy tales, some would say.

00:43:04.780 Joan and the Whale.

00:43:05.560 Yeah.

00:43:07.000 What's going on?

00:43:08.020 What is going on with that?

00:43:09.520 Joan and the Whale is a beautiful, it's one of the most powerful stories in scripture.

00:43:13.720 You know, I want to be cautious.

00:43:16.040 Like, I think that fairy tales, for example, in the secular world are the closest thing to

00:43:21.180 scripture that we have.

00:43:23.100 But they're not, they're nothing compared to scripture.

00:43:25.180 Scripture is astounding.

00:43:27.640 Like, the story of scripture is astounding.

00:43:29.560 Scripture is God's knowledge given.

00:43:32.740 Yeah.

00:43:32.980 This is man's knowledge put in story form.

00:43:35.940 It's kind of like a pale reflection.

00:43:37.480 It's like a more embodied, you know, for kids, this is easier to kind of absorb.

00:43:42.860 Some of the images in scripture are, they're harder.

00:43:46.060 They're harder to see.

00:43:47.120 But once you see them, you know, it's really astounding.

00:43:49.400 So Jonah, you can think about Jonah as, again, this idea that Jonah has, is called towards

00:43:58.600 something, right?

00:44:00.080 So think about Snow White, right?

00:44:01.640 Snow White is facing a transition.

00:44:04.360 She's becoming a woman. 0.62

00:44:06.580 But that, what, how do we do this?

00:44:09.140 So Jonah doesn't want that purpose.

00:44:12.180 He wants, he wants his own purpose.

00:44:15.600 So what he has to do, what, sadly, because of that, he has to fall.

00:44:18.800 He has to go down and he has to come back up.

00:44:21.780 So the story of Jonah, you can think about it as the entire story of humanity.

00:44:25.020 It's like Adam is called towards something.

00:44:27.780 And he's like, no, I want myself.

00:44:29.880 And God's like, okay, well, you're going to make it, but it's going to, you're going to

00:44:33.120 have to go low.

00:44:33.980 Like, you're going to have to go through a lot of pain and suffering until you finally

00:44:37.800 come to what my purpose is for you.

00:44:40.460 And so that's really what the story of Jonah, it's a, it's a repetition of the whole story

00:44:44.180 of the Bible, right?

00:44:45.500 Because it, it starts with God calling him a refusal and it ends in a city that is saved.

00:44:51.420 That's the story of the Bible, right?

00:44:52.700 It starts in the garden, refusal of Adam, and it ends with the heavenly Jerusalem.

00:44:56.040 It's like a little image of what the whole Bible is about.

00:44:59.520 And there are, you know, there are different images that you can see that the, the story

00:45:03.160 of Jonah is also a bit of a comedy.

00:45:05.460 It's like everything in the story is kind of upside down.

00:45:07.940 It's kind of making fun, not making fun, but, you know, presenting things in an ironic

00:45:13.520 way.

00:45:13.940 So you understand the message.

00:45:17.240 And you can also understand it as a, let's say a backward, a return from the fall as well. 0.89

00:45:24.420 Right.

00:45:24.540 So you go backwards from death and then you go back up and then you go into the city,

00:45:29.580 which comes after the fall.

00:45:31.020 And then after that, he goes into the garden with the, the plants and the, and the serpent.

00:45:37.420 And so it's like this whole structure that follows basically the story of the Bible.

00:45:40.520 It's really, it's really astounding.

00:45:43.020 So what's your background?

00:45:46.320 Yeah, it's weird.

00:45:47.280 It's weird.

00:45:47.820 I, you know, I studied, uh, I studied art.

00:45:50.680 Um, and, uh, I've always interested in ideas.

00:45:55.100 I became very disillusioned with, let's say academia quite quickly.

00:45:58.980 And I saw, because a lot of the crazy postmodern stuff that we have now in popular culture in

00:46:04.300 the world of art was there, you know, long time, long time ago.

00:46:07.700 And so all the ideas that are now like bearing fruit.

00:46:10.400 Where do you think that started?

00:46:12.520 What, what art period do you think that started?

00:46:15.400 That, the, that we're kind of still seeing today.

00:46:18.320 That's, I mean, it really is actually early 20th.

00:46:20.960 Yeah.

00:46:21.140 So the, the, everything that we're dealing with now was already there in like the first

00:46:25.340 decades of the 20th century.

00:46:26.720 Yes.

00:46:26.900 So cubism and Dada are the model for all the postmodern art.

00:46:30.920 Like Dada is basically we've, we've, we've kind of accepted Dada and surrealism as the, as

00:46:35.280 the worldview that we live in now.

00:46:36.980 Which is insane.

00:46:37.860 Which is completely crazy.

00:46:38.940 It does.

00:46:39.160 I mean, we're going to, people will dig up our societies, you know, and wonder what the

00:46:44.100 hell was that a building?

00:46:46.160 Nobody will guess.

00:46:47.420 Yeah.

00:46:47.640 They won't ever think that that was art.

00:46:50.320 I mean, think about it, you know, the very idea, even normal people, like even us will

00:46:55.720 catch yourself thinking that something that has value is valuable because it's different.

00:47:02.560 That's a very strange way of thinking, by the way.

00:47:05.560 But we think that, we think that artists should be different.

00:47:08.860 That artists are always manifesting, uh, like a new way of doing things, but that's not how

00:47:14.400 the ancients understood the arts.

00:47:15.780 That's not how the ancient arts were.

00:47:17.320 The artists were celebratory.

00:47:19.320 Right.

00:47:19.580 Right.

00:47:19.920 They were there to celebrate things.

00:47:21.400 And so they would, that's why they weren't celebrating themselves.

00:47:23.780 No, they would celebrate their participation in a bigger story, their participation in the

00:47:27.760 state, their participation in their religious tradition.

00:47:30.340 That's what the artists were used to do.

00:47:32.240 And now we have this weird idea that artists are, have to question authority, that artists

00:47:36.780 are questioning the narrative, that they're always deconstructing.

00:47:38.980 And so while I was studying art, I was reading a lot of postmodern philosophy, you know, just

00:47:44.880 reading Derrida, reading the Lyotard and Baudrillard, all these, these, uh, French theorists.

00:47:51.000 Um, and there was a, there was something about it that was kind of breaking me.

00:47:55.140 That was, that was causing insight in me.

00:47:57.860 And at the same time, my brother, Mathieu, who wrote an amazing book about symbolism,

00:48:02.360 if you, if people want to know, uh, he was also kind of in that same questioning period.

00:48:07.200 So in our twenties, we started discussing and reading and talking and we started, and that's

00:48:13.020 what led me to become a Orthodox Christian, which is that I started to see the patterns

00:48:18.060 in the Bible and the pattern in the architecture and in the art and in the music and thinking,

00:48:24.940 thinking, oh, wow, this is like, it's like a tune.

00:48:27.640 It's the whole package.

00:48:28.680 Yeah.

00:48:28.840 It's this whole way of being and of seeing.

00:48:31.460 And I started to explore that, you know, all through my twenties and thirties.

00:48:35.280 Uh, but it's weird.

00:48:36.540 It's kind of like what you said before about how, if we had had this conversation 20 years

00:48:41.280 ago, people wouldn't have understood both my brother and I felt like we had found this

00:48:45.780 key way of seeing the world, but that when we tried to explain it to others, they just

00:48:50.260 didn't, they didn't understand it or they didn't even know what the subject was.

00:48:54.180 Like, what are you talking about?

00:48:55.820 And then, I mean, so I continued in on my world, becoming an artist and also writing about

00:49:01.200 traditional Christian symbolism, you know, writing about iconography, writing about architecture.

00:49:06.240 And that's what, that's the kind of art you do.

00:49:08.180 That's the kind of art that I, that I do.

00:49:09.760 I don't do a lot now, but because I've been kind of taken on this weird, this weird thing.

00:49:15.480 So, but you were just, just so people understand you built, uh, altars and.

00:49:22.340 So I make, yeah, I make images for churches.

00:49:24.500 That's what I've, I did for many years professionally.

00:49:27.760 Uh, you know, icons, uh, carvings, making crores for, um, you know, just objects that are

00:49:33.780 used in the church or that are images.

00:49:35.840 And that's what I did for many years.

00:49:37.320 And I wrote about it.

00:49:38.200 I started with a friend of mine, something called the Orthodox art journal, where I wrote

00:49:41.960 about the symbolism, but I always knew that it wasn't just about religious art, that it

00:49:47.980 was actually about all stories and all images.

00:49:51.100 I mean, cause that's where, that's where this came from, isn't it?

00:49:54.200 I mean, it was a way to tell Thomas Jefferson said something I just absolutely love.

00:49:58.440 You want to, if you want people to know what you and your culture was, was about, embed it

00:50:05.700 in the architecture.

00:50:07.160 Yeah.

00:50:07.480 And so that's really what they were doing was embedding it everywhere, telling the story

00:50:14.080 in as many different ways as, as you can.

00:50:16.700 Right.

00:50:16.820 Yeah.

00:50:16.960 And the architecture is, I really believe honestly, that architecture is the most important

00:50:22.240 art.

00:50:22.920 I agree.

00:50:23.500 Because it tells you what's inside, what's outside.

00:50:26.880 It tells you, it gives you a relationship to hierarchy.

00:50:29.840 It gives you a relationship to, to identity itself, you know, and it's completely unconscious.

00:50:34.140 You don't have to think about it.

00:50:35.620 You just realize, and we know that it's that feeling when you walk into a place and you're

00:50:39.880 just like, Oh my gosh, I feel so good here.

00:50:42.640 I feel, I just want to stay here forever.

00:50:44.660 Yeah, exactly.

00:50:45.320 It comes from the way it was all designed and the appropriateness.

00:50:49.360 Right.

00:50:49.580 And so it's not like there's one type of, let's say architecture, one type of, of space, but

00:50:54.680 there are spaces that are designed to do certain things.

00:50:59.720 Right.

00:51:00.120 So, uh, you know, like a den where you're smoking cigars is not the same as a grand hall,

00:51:04.700 you know, where you're, where you're going to have a ceremony or something.

00:51:09.140 And so all of these, this way of thinking is really, and so postmodern architecture is

00:51:14.520 an, is an assault.

00:51:15.760 It is an assault on humanity and it is trying to reprogram us to understand what is inside

00:51:22.800 and what is outside and what is, you know, what is above and what is below.

00:51:26.320 Even the modern skyscraper, think about, you know, in the middle, in, um, in the middle

00:51:30.920 ages or later than that, there were literally rules that said you weren't allowed to build

00:51:35.940 anything higher than the church in the, in the, in the town.

00:51:39.120 And that was in order to establish the right hierarchy.

00:51:42.200 It's like, what's the highest thing?

00:51:44.100 Well, God's the highest thing.

00:51:45.180 And then maybe the, you know, the civil building will be the other one.

00:51:48.740 And we have this kind of, this, it's embedded in the land, in our perception, in our engagement

00:51:53.740 with space.

00:51:54.340 But when you go into New York, you're like, well, what's the highest thing?

00:51:57.660 It's the banks.

00:51:58.660 We know that it's the banks.

00:52:00.060 It's not the church anymore.

00:52:01.400 They are the ones that rule.

00:52:02.940 And it creates this whole sense of, it shifts hierarchy.

00:52:07.000 And then postmodern architecture does that towards the idea of, of difference or deconstruction

00:52:12.480 or, you know, multiplicity or variability.

00:52:15.800 And so we have these buildings that are completely wacky and that are completely wild and try to

00:52:20.060 actually subvert your sense of inside and outside and your sense.

00:52:24.400 And it makes people sick.

00:52:26.400 Like it makes you sick.

00:52:28.240 Have you, have you ever done any research on Rockefeller Center?

00:52:33.120 I, I mean, I know a little bit about it.

00:52:35.520 I, I was hammered for saying that is a temple to man and it's all embedded.

00:52:42.760 And I mean, I could take you around that and show you everything and say, that's what

00:52:45.840 this means.

00:52:46.400 That's what this means.

00:52:46.720 I mean, you have a statue of Prometheus right there in the, in the outside.

00:52:51.160 Right.

00:52:51.620 And I, I'm always amazed that people will walk by, I think it's in its own way, a very

00:52:57.740 beautiful building, a beautiful collection of buildings.

00:52:59.960 But you just walk by it and you have no idea that building is screaming to you.

00:53:07.560 I mean, even Atlas across the street from St. Patrick's, Atlas holding the world, challenging

00:53:15.640 the church.

00:53:16.200 It's amazing.

00:53:17.360 And the thing that people don't realize, and that's the thing about breakdown is that

00:53:23.820 at first there's something shiny about it.

00:53:27.040 Like this idea of celebration of man, it can look really shiny at the beginning, but what's

00:53:31.320 downstream from Rockefeller Center is strip malls.

00:53:35.100 Like that's what's downstream from Rockefeller Center.

00:53:36.340 And it's like, just, you know, like the suburbs that it's like.

00:53:39.660 But no, no, no, no, literally underground is the first mall.

00:53:44.460 Yeah.

00:53:44.640 There you go.

00:53:45.400 Yeah.

00:53:45.660 It was literally the thing under the grass and the concrete.

00:53:49.780 Yeah.

00:53:50.060 Yeah.

00:53:50.220 Yeah.

00:53:50.420 So you can, you can see that, like you said, if we don't celebrate the right things in the

00:53:54.600 right place, then it leads us to breakdown.

00:53:57.580 So someone who could go to the Rockefeller Center and say, well, why can't we make things like

00:54:01.880 this anymore?

00:54:02.600 You know?

00:54:02.800 And it's, it's actually because they made this that we can't because they, they didn't understand

00:54:07.780 that if you have to celebrate something that transcends you first and then everything else

00:54:12.660 can come downstream from that.

00:54:14.160 Well, they, but they did, they did.

00:54:16.380 It was, it was man and machine and the powerful and the money that came from.

00:54:23.460 I mean, Atlas and Prometheus, these are all images of their Titans.

00:54:26.960 Yeah.

00:54:27.420 But you, you walk into the lobby and it originally was, you know, kind of a weird ode to science

00:54:35.580 and the machine and, uh, Marxism and, uh, it's still is the kind of now it's, it's an amazing

00:54:44.340 thing, but they, they picked their God.

00:54:47.240 Yeah.

00:54:47.620 They picked their God.

00:54:48.760 Yeah.

00:54:49.220 Um, and it's interesting cause he's, uh, Rockefeller said he wanted, uh, he wanted a purely American

00:54:57.240 architecture.

00:54:58.460 And so he was trying to create American architecture.

00:55:02.420 Interesting.

00:55:02.940 Saying that America is about the almighty dollar.

00:55:07.520 Yeah.

00:55:07.720 It's about, you know, man can do anything, create anything.

00:55:12.460 Yeah.

00:55:12.700 Yeah.

00:55:12.880 Yeah.

00:55:13.120 Yeah.

00:55:13.680 Um, you said earlier that, um, this always happens and it, it's, it's alerting you to an

00:55:24.560 end.

00:55:25.320 Okay.

00:55:26.480 Um, so where are we on that path?

00:55:30.800 I have not met more people.

00:55:35.180 I, I, I'm telling you, it is crazy.

00:55:37.320 I can go anywhere.

00:55:38.820 And especially before the election, a little less now people are like, well, maybe God gave

00:55:43.580 us a break.

00:55:44.260 But before the election, everybody I know was saying, I think Christ is coming.

00:55:48.480 Yeah.

00:55:48.660 You know, um, where, where are we, what is, what are all of these things telling us?

00:55:56.180 Yeah.

00:55:56.400 We, I mean, we think we always have to be, we have to be cautious.

00:55:59.080 We don't, we don't want to just be screaming fire, uh, in a building, but I think that all

00:56:04.880 the, the signs.

00:56:05.920 And when I say signs, I mean, really the things that we've been talking about, they, they're

00:56:09.800 showing an end, like they're showing that we're running out.

00:56:14.500 And, and so.

00:56:16.320 Wait, wait, is with, because we all have this.

00:56:19.940 Yeah.

00:56:20.380 Is that a sign of God to you?

00:56:22.620 Because it's, it's almost, you know, I used to describe it and I'm not sure this is correct

00:56:26.920 anymore.

00:56:27.260 It used to describe it.

00:56:28.940 You know, when you have something of value, you put an alarm on it and God gave us rights.

00:56:36.180 And I think that's the alarm.

00:56:38.460 It's, it's almost like a silent alarm going off and everybody going, something's not right.

00:56:42.600 Yeah.

00:56:43.120 You know what I mean?

00:56:44.140 Something's about to be taken.

00:56:45.880 Yeah.

00:56:46.280 I think, I think that that's right, but it, it happens.

00:56:49.000 And this is something maybe that can be useful for people to see is that we know, we talked

00:56:53.760 a lot about the deconstruction and the decomposition and the breakdown, and that is definitely one

00:56:58.780 of the clearest signs of the end, but there's another sign, which is the opposite.

00:57:05.220 It's something like the compensation for that breakdown.

00:57:08.860 And so what happens is that as things are breaking down, there's also systems of power

00:57:16.060 that are becoming more and more powerful simultaneously.

00:57:19.320 And it looks like a contradiction at the outset, but you obviously everybody can see it happen

00:57:23.280 now.

00:57:23.940 It's like global, globalism and it's kind of idea of a world government or however they

00:57:29.140 want to phrase it is hand in hand with the destruction, with like the kind of variety

00:57:35.120 and, you know, this worship of difference and this worship of, so both of those are happening,

00:57:40.020 happening simultaneously.

00:57:41.420 So we have to, we have to be able to watch. 0.95

00:57:44.440 So even like in terms of America, you know, I hate Americans.

00:57:49.740 Some might not be happy with what I'm about to say, which is. 0.97

00:57:52.040 Sorry, you're Canadian. 1.00

00:57:53.120 If you're, if you're not careful and you focus too much on individual rights.

00:57:59.020 Yes.

00:57:59.400 Right.

00:57:59.980 Then you are simultaneously calling upon higher and higher forms of authority because you

00:58:06.640 need an arbiter for those rights.

00:58:08.880 There's no way around it.

00:58:09.980 You know, usually the way that it would function in kind of any society or traditional society

00:58:14.340 is that all those relationships would be moderated at the, on the local sphere.

00:58:19.060 Right.

00:58:19.660 So, you know, it's like, who's a guarantor of your rights and responsibilities?

00:58:23.460 What's your family?

00:58:24.360 It's your, it's your village, it's your town, it's your parish.

00:58:27.160 It's like your church or whatever.

00:58:28.400 But now because we're like, I'll do whatever I want to do.

00:58:32.100 And as much on the left as on the right, it's like, I'll do whatever I want and nobody can

00:58:35.880 tell me what to do.

00:58:37.880 Either that person has like crazy rainbow hair or is, has a gas and flag and is saying it's 0.64

00:58:42.400 me.

00:58:43.100 That is calling constantly the arbiters of power to become more powerful because you always

00:58:48.160 need someone to arbitrate that power.

00:58:49.800 And so it's happening in America, but it's also happening even at a global scale.

00:58:55.620 We can see it.

00:58:56.360 That's why I think people, because I, I, I'm, I wonder if people really want responsibility.

00:59:03.200 You know, a lot of people just don't want, they just want to check in, check out, have

00:59:06.700 a cute little life and move on.

00:59:09.180 Um, but you know, real true freedom requires an awful lot of work as an individual.

00:59:15.880 Yeah.

00:59:16.320 And we kind of gave that away in America.

00:59:18.740 We just kind of went, Oh, they're going to take care of it.

00:59:20.820 We want the rights, but not the responsibility, not the responsibilities at all.

00:59:24.380 And, um, and because we gave it all to Washington, which was a long way away, we can just bitch 1.00

00:59:30.260 about how things were being done in Washington because they're falling apart here and not

00:59:35.180 taking the responsibility that yeah, dummy, it's falling apart here.

00:59:39.560 Not just because you didn't pay attention to what's happening there, but because you're

00:59:43.120 not doing anything here.

00:59:44.340 Yeah.

00:59:44.520 Yeah.

00:59:44.740 Yeah.

00:59:45.100 And I think, I think you're absolutely, I think you're absolutely right.

00:59:47.560 I think that one of the things that was fascinating about America in some ways is that the rights

00:59:54.260 part was made explicit in order to protect people.

00:59:58.060 But the responsibility part was almost like implicit.

01:00:00.800 Like everybody knew when it started that, yeah, of course you're responsible.

01:00:04.720 Of course.

01:00:05.500 Of course.

01:00:05.920 But, but now we just have the rights and we've lost this sense of local responsibility and

01:00:12.440 local participation and all of these things.

01:00:14.340 And so it's as if you can see right in the story of the U S you can kind of see this move

01:00:19.620 towards centralization, even though the, the beginning of the country was actually a way

01:00:24.140 to try to stop, to prevent too much centralization.

01:00:27.080 But now everybody just looks to the president.

01:00:29.120 I mean, as much on the right and on the left, it was like, well, the president's going to

01:00:31.720 save us.

01:00:32.280 It's like, how does that, how the hell, how's that possible?

01:00:34.360 Why is that real?

01:00:35.540 That's one of my biggest beefs.

01:00:37.020 And I've been saying, you got to reprieve God, God was like, you know what?

01:00:43.180 I'm not into the smoting thing right now.

01:00:46.140 Let him go.

01:00:47.380 And so we have this reprieve, but God only does the things that we cannot do.

01:00:54.560 Yeah.

01:00:54.860 Okay.

01:00:55.860 And then he leaves all the stuff up that we can do up to us.

01:00:59.520 And it's kind of like, okay, guys, I mean, I just, I just answered your prayer.

01:01:03.740 He's not the savior.

01:01:05.100 Yeah.

01:01:05.280 It's going to require you to change your life as well.

01:01:08.380 And I hope we've learned that lesson.

01:01:10.520 Yeah, I hope so.

01:01:11.440 You know, and that's what, in some ways, at least, I mean, I think everybody is trying

01:01:15.300 to do their part.

01:01:16.320 That's why, because one of the things we saw, I think, in the past few generations is how

01:01:21.080 those that are really ideologically taken, possessed, they want to get involved in education.

01:01:27.600 Like they're actually trying.

01:01:28.940 They go into the school boards, they take over, you know, the schools, they become principals,

01:01:33.020 they become teachers.

01:01:33.720 And we're like, ah, you know, we just want to make money and we don't want to like, we

01:01:37.300 don't want to get involved in this, but it's like, your kids are getting taken.

01:01:40.880 And so one of the things we've been trying to, that's one of the reasons why, because

01:01:44.440 it sounds weird when you, people talk to me, they're like, how are you, why, like you're

01:01:48.140 doing, explaining symbolism, but you're writing these fairy tales.

01:01:50.800 It's like, that's one of the things we want to do is to say, no, we need to be now mindful

01:01:56.180 and say, what stories are we telling our children?

01:01:59.360 Can we get involved?

01:02:00.440 Like, how can we get involved in, you know, because a lot of people doing homeschooling,

01:02:04.020 that's a way to do it.

01:02:04.720 There are different ways to do it, but we need to be mindful and like, look towards what

01:02:09.160 it is that is forming our kids.

01:02:11.780 And that, that's a better guarantee of the future, you know, than making a million dollars.

01:02:17.520 So do you find any of the call back to traditionalism, um, do you find any of it to be a little scary?

01:02:28.300 Like, like there's people who I know who are great and they want the Latin mass.

01:02:33.120 Okay.

01:02:33.600 I'm not a Catholic, so I don't understand, but that is full of symbolism and ritual and

01:02:39.180 everything else and sounds pretty great.

01:02:41.520 Um, but there's also people who are also kind of going a little further, you know, to, again,

01:02:51.500 to another kind of dark side of, yeah, now let's use this power and we'll have a, a vicar

01:02:58.280 of Christ in power, which is also terrifying.

01:03:01.760 Yeah.

01:03:02.280 Oh, I, I agree.

01:03:03.380 I think that, you know, this is, you know, obviously I'm an Orthodox Christian.

01:03:09.180 And so I, I definitely do love tradition, but we have to be obviously careful that we

01:03:14.520 don't weaponize tradition towards something else.

01:03:17.720 You know, the purpose of tradition is to orient us towards the highest good, which is God.

01:03:22.400 But if we think, if we think of it as a weapon in order to kind of control people and get

01:03:27.300 what we want, then it's doing the opposite of what it should be doing.

01:03:30.400 And that's the temptation.

01:03:31.580 It's part of this dual problem that we, that I mentioned at the outset, which is that as

01:03:36.440 we watch things kind of deconstruct and fall apart, like we tend, some people would be

01:03:42.240 want, Oh, I'm going to look towards unity.

01:03:43.600 I'm going to look towards something that binds us together.

01:03:45.560 And that's absolutely normal and necessary, but we have to be careful not to do it in a

01:03:49.680 way, you know, that is in some ways becomes tyrannical because that's not what we want.

01:03:55.160 The idea of tradition isn't tyranny.

01:03:56.880 It's this balance between unity and multiplicity, right?

01:04:00.300 It's this balance between kind of things that are set in our ways, but also kind of mercy and

01:04:04.380 forgiveness and compassion towards those that can't kind of, can't necessarily totally

01:04:08.640 align themselves.

01:04:09.420 And it's hard because it's, because when things get crazy and crazier and more and more

01:04:13.320 decomposed, we want to like turn around and grab onto the most solid thing that we can

01:04:18.980 find.

01:04:20.380 And, and I think that's completely normal, but we also, like you said, have to be cautious,

01:04:24.800 you know, because I think that that's actually what happened in the 20th century.

01:04:28.940 I think that the shift from Weimar to the Reich is exactly that.

01:04:33.040 Yeah.

01:04:33.460 It's like things were falling apart, crazy, chaotic, evil.

01:04:36.480 And the people that were rising up were evil, but they, they grabbed the churches who were

01:04:42.400 all too willing to participate.

01:04:44.220 And then it became also about a God thing.

01:04:46.640 Yeah.

01:04:47.040 And then it was like, well, what are you doing?

01:04:48.720 So that's definitely the issue now we have to, we, I think as, as, as religious people,

01:04:52.960 as Christians, we have to be attentive, you know, to, to kind of always remember the vision

01:04:59.220 that Christ gave.

01:05:00.100 In some ways, Christ gave the best vision for, for that, because what Christ offers

01:05:05.660 is a kind of authority and a kind of power, but that is loving, right?

01:05:12.420 It's, it's, it's, it's forgiveness.

01:05:13.900 It's, it's giving itself to those that, that, that has authority above.

01:05:19.580 And so we have to be careful not to think really like in the, like in the 20th century

01:05:23.760 to think, oh, things are falling apart.

01:05:25.920 Now it's total case.

01:05:26.620 We need to, we need to grab this.

01:05:28.040 We need to just like impose order and get everybody in step so that, you know, we avoid

01:05:33.440 that.

01:05:33.780 But that leads to its own, it leads to its own.

01:05:37.220 I mean, we saw it in the 20th century.

01:05:38.600 It leads to its own madness.

01:05:39.720 Talk to me a bit about, and I don't know if you even can, but I think the, I think the

01:05:47.600 use of symbolism by the Jewish people on Sabbath and Passover is the most divine I've ever seen.

01:05:59.080 I mean, it, I don't think they would have lasted if they didn't have those rituals, you know, being scattered

01:06:05.840 all over the world, the earth, if they hadn't have said, what's this spice mean?

01:06:10.640 What does this mean?

01:06:11.720 What does this mean?

01:06:12.980 What do the candles represent?

01:06:14.680 And had that tradition, they might've forgotten who they were.

01:06:19.100 I totally agree.

01:06:20.340 I totally agree.

01:06:21.060 You know, I think that, you know, we can look at that also for, for Christians.

01:06:26.140 That is, we have the same thing.

01:06:28.780 We have it all.

01:06:29.460 It's all there too.

01:06:30.420 Like we have Easter and we have Pascha, we have Pascha and we have all these celebrations.

01:06:36.000 Pascha is Easter, basically, like the resurrection.

01:06:38.700 Okay, yeah.

01:06:39.080 And we have these feasts that we've celebrated over millennia.

01:06:42.900 And they also do that.

01:06:44.640 They kind of, they're very, they're similar in the way that the Jewish, Jewish people have their

01:06:48.600 kind of weekly rituals and also their yearly rituals where they celebrate certain things

01:06:53.580 that bind them together in the presence of God over the year.

01:06:57.000 And so Christians have all that too. 0.85

01:06:59.860 But because of this weird materialism that has set itself up in Christianity, we've tried 0.98

01:07:05.600 to get rid of that, thinking it's superstition or something like that, saying like, all this

01:07:10.040 is maybe superstition or idolatry or whatever.

01:07:11.960 You hear all the time, well, Christmas isn't Christmas.

01:07:15.620 That was just, that was the day the sun god worshipers were worshiping and they just took

01:07:20.200 that.

01:07:20.960 It's not the date.

01:07:21.740 Yeah, it's nonsense, by the way.

01:07:22.880 I know, but it's not the date that they chose.

01:07:26.620 And they might've done that to bring more people into the fold, but they're not teaching

01:07:33.080 paganism.

01:07:34.340 It was the, let's make this ritual important to teach this principle, right?

01:07:41.280 Yeah.

01:07:41.580 And people, it's also because people, because they're not used to thinking in the language

01:07:45.740 of symbolism, they don't realize, for example, you know, people will say, well, look at these

01:07:51.040 images that we use during Christmas.

01:07:52.700 Some of them look like images that would exist in a pagan world.

01:07:58.220 And, you know, by the way, that's also true of the tabernacle and the temple, right?

01:08:02.620 The way that the tabernacle is described in scripture, there are analogies between that

01:08:07.060 tabernacle and some, you know, tabernacle, some temple in Egypt, you know, or in Babylon.

01:08:13.180 But it's just that it was reoriented towards the true God and towards the true purpose.

01:08:18.780 And so the idea that sometimes you might find certain things that people are doing in, let's

01:08:24.080 say, in Christmas, for example.

01:08:26.440 This is the best explanation I've ever heard.

01:08:27.960 Yeah, you say, oh, so, you know, the pagans had trees that they decorated. 1.00

01:08:32.080 And so we can't do that because, you know, that's stupid. 0.97

01:08:35.340 But it's like, well, look at the tree we're doing. 0.99

01:08:37.380 Look at what we're doing.

01:08:38.120 We're putting a star at the top or an angel because in the Christmas story, that's what

01:08:44.840 showed people the way to Christ.

01:08:47.080 And then we decorate it with all these beautiful images, all these beautiful kind of bright

01:08:52.460 things.

01:08:53.100 And then we put the hidden gifts at the bottom, like Christ was hidden in the cave or hidden

01:08:57.520 in the manger.

01:08:58.480 It's like the whole structure of the tree is a Christian structure. 0.93

01:09:01.660 Now, whether or not pagans did something similar, that doesn't matter.

01:09:05.720 Yeah, it's like it's like Satan takes something good and perverts.

01:09:10.280 That's right.

01:09:10.860 You can God can take the things that have been bad and change it for good.

01:09:16.060 And that's it.

01:09:16.560 By the way, in Scripture, it happens all the time.

01:09:19.100 Right.

01:09:19.720 All of the building arts come from Cain's descendants.

01:09:23.100 Right.

01:09:23.520 They come as a consequence of the fall and are used to build weapons and to build civilization

01:09:28.500 in a negative way.

01:09:29.640 But then God is constantly taking that and saying, no, no, let's turn it.

01:09:33.780 Let's turn it towards the right purpose.

01:09:35.940 And the image of the heavenly Jerusalem at the end of Scripture is exactly that.

01:09:39.860 It's like all of this civilization stuff that you guys have that was developed because of

01:09:43.760 the fall, I'm going to help reorder it towards its true purpose.

01:09:49.720 Let me go back to demons here for a second.

01:09:52.640 Tucker Carlson said recently that he had encountered a demon.

01:09:58.760 He had scratches on his body.

01:10:01.600 What do you make of that?

01:10:02.520 I mean, I know Tucker.

01:10:04.400 I believe Tucker.

01:10:05.200 He's not a...

01:10:05.760 No, I don't think...

01:10:06.600 He's not a grandstander.

01:10:07.300 I think definitely that his experience is absolutely real.

01:10:11.140 I don't think he's making it up at all.

01:10:13.080 You know, I think that the, you know, this is going to sound weird for people when I say

01:10:19.760 this.

01:10:20.140 It's like, you know, he's sleeping in bed with his dogs, right?

01:10:23.840 And so first thing you think is, oh, it's the dogs.

01:10:27.000 Right.

01:10:27.120 The dogs did it.

01:10:27.740 And the answer to me is something like, well, maybe it's the dogs, but maybe just like in

01:10:33.600 the story of the lizard people and the story of the 5G causing COVID, maybe it's not just

01:10:38.080 the dogs in the sense that maybe the causality of it, even though maybe the mechanical causes

01:10:42.940 are the dogs scratching him, like the coalescence of all the things that he experienced, which

01:10:47.740 is he experienced this like terror and he experienced this being frozen and the pressure

01:10:53.140 on his chest and then waking up and having these scratches, all those phenomena together,

01:10:57.380 even though they might have their own mechanical causes, maybe he ate something wrong or maybe

01:11:00.980 whatever.

01:11:01.500 Like God doesn't work outside of mechanical causes, but it's how these come together.

01:11:06.680 He can't change the math.

01:11:07.860 Exactly.

01:11:08.420 It's how these come together into these meaningful, powerful experiences that what's important.

01:11:12.780 And so if you ask me, did Tucker encounter a demon?

01:11:16.080 My answer is, I think so.

01:11:17.780 I think he really did.

01:11:19.120 Does it mean that there are no mechanical causes to what happened to him?

01:11:22.120 And that, no, not, why would that matter?

01:11:24.020 Isn't a miracle in some ways a change in perspective?

01:11:31.520 Yeah.

01:11:32.120 And I think that that's what he experienced.

01:11:33.740 He experienced something that brought him to be able to see more reality and to understand

01:11:40.440 his place in the world in a way that he had never seen before.

01:11:43.980 And that, like you said, is a small miracle.

01:11:46.660 And I think that a lot of people are seeing that happen to them in different ways right

01:11:53.700 now, where, you know, through weird circumstances, through all kinds of things that happen in

01:11:58.740 your life, through these coincidences, you could say, that happen, it forces us to see that

01:12:03.800 there's some higher meaning that's kind of drawing us towards itself.

01:12:07.460 And do you think you need to have the belly of the whale to get the land and standing upright

01:12:15.360 again?

01:12:16.660 I think for most of us, probably, there, you know, there are stories of people that are

01:12:21.240 kind of faithful from, from birth, you know, you see it in scripture and like Samuel, for

01:12:27.600 example, and there are certain characters like that that are, but I think for most of us,

01:12:31.820 we kind of need to kind of smack down because, and it's not a, you know, it's not a kind of

01:12:37.460 masochism or anything like that is that in order to be able to give yourself to a higher

01:12:45.840 participation and meaning.

01:12:47.580 You have to experience the incapacity to do it on your own.

01:12:51.840 And that's true at the micro level.

01:12:54.780 Like, you know, the only way you can be good in a basketball team is if you understand that

01:13:01.660 you can't do it on your own.

01:13:02.940 And if you try to do it on your own, you're going to be the worst basketball player in

01:13:07.040 the world.

01:13:07.360 You have to kind of give that up.

01:13:08.960 And then when you do, then your little part now coalesces with others and then yield this

01:13:16.400 beautiful thing.

01:13:17.140 But that's true for all of life, which is that unless you realize that you don't have

01:13:22.140 the power to do it on your own, to participate in the highest goods, then you're going to

01:13:27.740 have to suffer.

01:13:29.320 Like suffering will be part of your experience and that suffering will kind of force you to

01:13:33.920 give up in some ways and to say, no, whatever strength that has, has to be in service of

01:13:38.280 something higher or else it's pointless.

01:13:40.620 20 years ago, um, uh, I was on tour, um, every day I was meeting about probably a thousand

01:13:52.620 to 2000 people.

01:13:53.700 I was doing a stage show, television show, radio show, meeting greets for a book.

01:13:58.080 And, uh, it was intense every day.

01:14:01.900 Um, and it was right before Christmas.

01:14:03.980 And at that time I had my first real death threat.

01:14:07.060 Um, we had to have two buses and I'd have to switch buses and you never knew which one

01:14:11.620 I was on.

01:14:12.340 And, and somebody tried to run one of the buses off the road and actually did.

01:14:16.700 Luckily it wasn't the one I was on.

01:14:18.600 And, um, and there was this really demonic, um, um, video on the internet at the time when

01:14:29.260 it was still pretty young and they had taken a clip of me and slow.

01:14:35.500 And then put this driving hard rock, uh, music behind it.

01:14:42.280 And it said trader where my name would have been if I was on television.

01:14:46.920 Okay. 0.86

01:14:47.560 And this computer voice just said over and over again, all traders must die. 0.99

01:14:53.360 Oh my goodness. 1.00

01:14:53.920 All traders must die. 1.00

01:14:56.200 Terrifying. 0.99

01:14:56.820 Yeah.

01:14:57.060 So I'm going to these meet and greets every single day with a thousand people coming up.

01:15:01.620 And I had probably six to eight people on me as body people.

01:15:07.160 Yeah.

01:15:07.440 Yeah.

01:15:08.120 And I'm in this store, this bookstore, and I see this guy, he's wearing a long trench coat.

01:15:13.960 It was cold, but he just caught my eye.

01:15:16.760 Right.

01:15:17.060 Didn't look right.

01:15:17.760 He had his hands in his pockets and, uh, I realized my guys had noticed him too, because

01:15:25.620 they started kind of closing in on me as he was closing.

01:15:29.160 Oh my.

01:15:29.780 By the time he got up to me, they were all right there.

01:15:32.280 Yeah.

01:15:32.540 And, uh, he had his hands in his pockets and, uh, and I, I remember thinking, I'm not afraid,

01:15:39.640 not afraid.

01:15:40.300 I'm just going to wish him Merry Christmas.

01:15:41.560 And, uh, I said, Merry Christmas.

01:15:44.360 I put my hand out and he started taking his hand out and he said, all traders, and he

01:15:50.000 was on the ground.

01:15:50.800 That's wild.

01:15:52.180 That freaked me out, obviously.

01:15:57.480 Um, and I had this, I had this wrestle with what I do, what I say, who am I really, why am

01:16:06.880 I doing this?

01:16:07.760 And then this connection with God, um, I, I, I was, this sounds so weird, but I, I was

01:16:18.200 given in a blessing, the gift of discernment and I still have it today.

01:16:23.240 I don't have it in like this setting per se, but when I'm in a crowd and I can look you

01:16:31.080 in the eye for a second, I'll hear sad, tired, uh, happy, filled with the spirit.

01:16:38.940 I'll actually hear those things and I can know what, what's going on.

01:16:44.700 And it's from that moment.

01:16:46.060 That's from that moment.

01:16:46.840 It's from a blessing right after that moment.

01:16:48.540 Okay.

01:16:48.840 And, um, so I go home, I'm high as a kite.

01:16:53.180 Um, I've just been through this, but I feel like spiritually empowered.

01:16:57.100 I get home and there's this big box in my foyer.

01:17:01.960 I had a year before and only one, one person knew this, not even my wife, nobody knew this.

01:17:07.040 I was in a temple and I was looking at this painting of Christ holding the black sheep 0.67

01:17:14.760 and the black sheep, his head was in the crook of Christ's arm, but he was looking back from

01:17:20.860 where Christ is walking away from.

01:17:22.440 So it, I, and I sat there and I looked at it for the longest time and I thought, why

01:17:27.140 is he looking back?

01:17:28.260 Is he worried about the other sheep that might still be lost?

01:17:31.660 Is he, you know, what, what, what is happening, um, in, in that symbolism, if there were, if

01:17:38.320 there was any, and, uh, I've wanted to get that painting.

01:17:42.460 And so I looked, you know, online, I couldn't find the painting anywhere.

01:17:45.340 Year later, I'm coming home from that tour and this giant box is sitting in my foyer and

01:17:54.580 it's right before Christmas.

01:17:55.440 And I just walked by it.

01:17:56.580 Cause I thought, well, my, something my wife got for me or something else.

01:17:59.840 And she just kept walked by it because she thought it was something that I had gotten

01:18:03.400 her.

01:18:04.040 And I finally said, are we going to, are we going to move the box under the tree?

01:18:08.800 And she said, I thought that was something you got.

01:18:11.360 And I said, no, we open it up.

01:18:14.960 There's no note.

01:18:16.320 There's nothing.

01:18:17.860 It's that painting framed.

01:18:21.060 We call the people who shipped it.

01:18:23.820 And the guy said, look, I know this is going to sound weird.

01:18:26.400 I don't know you at all.

01:18:27.760 He said, but for some reason, he said, I saw you in a store a year ago and you asked for

01:18:36.520 that painting.

01:18:37.620 And they said they didn't have it.

01:18:39.140 And he said, I just heard, help him find that painting.

01:18:43.000 And he's like, I'm like, I don't even know him.

01:18:46.020 I'm just dismissing that.

01:18:48.340 And he went after a year dismissing it over and over and over again, over a year's period.

01:18:54.720 He said that painting showed up on my dock.

01:18:58.980 And I went around to everybody and said, where's this painting?

01:19:02.280 Who, who put this here?

01:19:03.200 And he said, I don't know how it got here.

01:19:05.420 He said, but I interpreted it as Lord.

01:19:07.980 If you want him to have the painting, okay, I can at least frame it and ship it.

01:19:11.700 He's like, so I'm sorry if that sounds really weird.

01:19:14.160 He didn't know the rest of the story.

01:19:17.040 So now I'm like, the Lord has you.

01:19:20.780 He has you.

01:19:21.800 He knows you personally and he's got you.

01:19:24.900 Yeah.

01:19:25.020 I go in for surgery four days later.

01:19:30.080 I have surgery.

01:19:31.700 I'm, I'm in so much pain and I'm very high tolerant to drugs and they can't keep me out of pain.

01:19:39.080 And so they're just loading me with fentanyl and everything else.

01:19:42.540 And I'm in this weakened state and it's bone crushing in this hospital room.

01:19:52.000 I go from the highest ever to the most desperate ever because I'm hearing voices.

01:19:58.580 You think, you know, how I can, you think, you know, how I'm going to destroy you.

01:20:04.700 You have no chance. 1.00

01:20:06.900 I'm going to destroy you and your family. 1.00

01:20:09.820 And it was real to me. 0.98

01:20:12.280 And if the windows hadn't been in, if it wasn't a New York hospital that had locks on the windows,

01:20:19.080 I think I would have honestly thrown myself out of the window.

01:20:22.900 My wife calls, says, I'm on my way.

01:20:25.620 Do you need anything?

01:20:26.280 I said, no, honey, there's no reason to come.

01:20:27.860 I'm okay.

01:20:28.780 And she said, I just immediately overwhelmed with, he's in trouble.

01:20:33.400 She said, I came.

01:20:34.400 Now I had fallen back to sleep in between and I wake up and my wife is singing hymns and the spirit is that darkness completely gone.

01:20:45.560 I'm sorry, but if you don't believe that kind of stuff, you know, I don't think that happens to everybody, but it does happen.

01:20:58.700 Yeah.

01:20:58.940 I think everybody has at least little versions of things like that in their life.

01:21:04.560 But they'll dismiss it as a coincidence.

01:21:06.200 That's right.

01:21:06.440 Yeah.

01:21:07.160 Or maybe that was crazy.

01:21:08.420 I was just thinking that.

01:21:09.440 Yeah.

01:21:09.940 Well, in your case, you know, things align so much that it's hard to say, it's just, it's a coincidence, but there are smaller versions of that that everybody deals with all the time.

01:21:20.100 You know, these little moments kind of coalescing and becoming bright, you know, and kind of standing out from everyday life, this kind of boring everyday life.

01:21:28.700 And that's exactly what it is.

01:21:30.660 In some ways, they are little glimmers that we are in something bigger, like we participate in something bigger than ourselves.

01:21:38.300 And we've been trained to ignore them or to say, like you said, it's just coincidence, it's superstition, you know, but these, these are part of the world.

01:21:48.580 Like they are what brings reality together.

01:21:51.680 You know, this type of thing, like this idea that events come together and kind of manifest meaning, you know, it happens to you every day, all the time in the little ways, you know, every time you, you were able to finish a project or you're able to work with someone in the team or whatever, you have these little experiences.

01:22:07.420 And sometimes, like the story you told me, then it shows itself in a way that is really drawing you, right?

01:22:14.960 Drawing you into something bigger than you.

01:22:17.500 And, but that's actually how the world works.

01:22:20.280 It is.

01:22:20.900 Yeah.

01:22:21.400 You were brought to, if, you know, I really, I'm, you know, I'm a recovering alcoholic.

01:22:28.200 So I had this massive crash in my life and didn't know what I believed in and blah, blah, blah.

01:22:32.620 And one of the first things I adopted was don't, don't accept anything as a coincidence, anything for 30 days, dismiss, wow, that was weird.

01:22:43.600 Yeah.

01:22:44.440 Pursue it.

01:22:44.940 And sometimes you'll pursue it and you'll go down a dead end and there's nothing, you know, that you, you can find there that other than it was just kind of a weird coincidence.

01:22:54.760 Um, but there are other times that you're like, holy cow, look at how God is working, how the universe works.

01:23:03.540 Yeah.

01:23:03.780 It's, it's, it's amazing.

01:23:05.660 Yeah.

01:23:05.880 And the nihilists are absolutely wrong.

01:23:08.280 Like they, they, you cannot avoid meaning meaning is the world is structured in meaning for every movement you make, everything you do, every time you move towards the door or that you, anything that you do is always an alignment towards purpose.

01:23:26.760 The, you can't avoid it.

01:23:28.140 Everything you do.

01:23:28.980 There's body language.

01:23:30.080 Yeah.

01:23:30.540 Yeah.

01:23:30.680 Right.

01:23:30.940 And it's the opposite of what the nihilists say.

01:23:32.660 It's actually, you can't avoid meaning.

01:23:34.920 You can't.

01:23:35.900 It's, it's the way that you're entire.

01:23:38.260 And how come so many of us are looking for meaning in our life?

01:23:40.760 That's because they, how can I say this?

01:23:43.920 It's like, they're looking, they have this lofty idea, right?

01:23:49.340 You know, Christ says you have to be faithful in small things before you have access to the bigger things.

01:23:53.680 You know, if you can't see the biggest, the bigger meaning, if you can't find like a purpose for your life, realize that there are purposes in front of you that are very close to you that you can engage with right away.

01:24:05.540 Whether it's your friendships, whether it's your family, whether it's, you know, your community, whatever it is, there are these little things that you can embark on that will give you little meanings in life.

01:24:15.940 And that those, if you, if you're faithful in those, and all of a sudden, like you said, like the story that you told, all of a sudden miracles start to appear and you realize that the world is actually full of light and is full of miracles.

01:24:27.020 Did you see that the tabernacle was found in one of the churches that burned down in California?

01:24:34.360 No, no.

01:24:35.220 Yeah.

01:24:35.720 There's a couple of stories.

01:24:37.340 The firefighters are saying now that there was a tabernacle in a church.

01:24:43.040 Everything was completely destroyed.

01:24:45.080 It was like, you know, the chimney and the tabernacle.

01:24:48.180 Wow.

01:24:48.300 I mean, that's, that's an awfully hot fire for that to go unscathed.

01:24:54.560 And there's always stories like that about, you know, religious icons or whatever.

01:24:59.520 Yeah, that survive fires and that are like just almost like magically present after the disaster.

01:25:05.520 Yeah.

01:25:06.420 These are, I mean, these are real, these are real things.

01:25:08.680 And you could say, it's funny, you could say it's a coincidence.

01:25:11.760 But it's like, you have, it's like in the case of a tabernacle or the case of the image of Christ or an icon.

01:25:21.340 It's like, that's the image of the thing that's the most important for you.

01:25:24.260 And through the chaos, it's preserved.

01:25:27.540 And it's like, that's what you hope for.

01:25:30.200 That's what you wish for.

01:25:31.140 That's what you want to happen when your family go through a crisis is that the little kernel, that seed is preserved through the flood.

01:25:39.440 And so when you see it happen, why are you saying it's a coincidence?

01:25:43.020 It's like, that's everything that we're made to participate in.

01:25:46.720 And that's everything we look for.

01:25:48.060 Like if you make it out of a crisis, it's because you are able to find that kernel, that little seed that is kind of going to pull you through that little arc that is going to bring you through the chaos.

01:25:59.080 So when it happens at a greater scale, why are you surprised?

01:26:02.580 It's like, that's how the world works.

01:26:03.800 That's how your life works.

01:26:04.720 That's how all of our lives work, you know?

01:26:06.240 So it's, somebody said recently to me, faith is a choice.

01:26:17.220 Hope is a byproduct.

01:26:19.940 Yeah.

01:26:20.880 Yeah, you're right.

01:26:21.900 And if you align yourself, faith is, you can understand faith exactly as this, how can I say this?

01:26:29.180 It's like, when you're in a situation of chaos, like in a difficulty, you lose sight of that which is pulling you forward.

01:26:39.260 But you can know that it's there.

01:26:42.200 Right?

01:26:42.380 You can know that it's there because you're still breathing.

01:26:44.160 You're still moving.

01:26:44.900 You're still eating.

01:26:45.640 You're still doing these little things that are aligned towards purpose.

01:26:49.260 You know, St. Paul talks about how faith is the proof, the proof of things unseen.

01:26:55.360 And that's it.

01:26:56.380 Right?

01:26:56.720 It's like, if you, if you move towards something, even if you don't have it yet, then, like you said, then hope will be inevitable.

01:27:05.540 Right?

01:27:05.760 Act.

01:27:06.440 Can I say this?

01:27:07.040 Like, believe that your family can become a little image of the kingdom of God.

01:27:12.820 And that really can, even though it's not right now, it really can.

01:27:16.560 And if you do that, then everything will align towards that.

01:27:20.520 Like, if you really believe it and you move towards it, things will align towards it.

01:27:23.100 Of course.

01:27:24.020 Act as though it is and it manifests.

01:27:27.280 It will come together, you know.

01:27:28.900 And people weaponize that in all kinds of kind of annoying ways where they're, you know, they're like, if you want to make money, you know, you kind of visualize it.

01:27:36.260 Right.

01:27:36.740 It's like, yeah, you know, that probably does work.

01:27:39.020 But there are better applications of this than just, you know, making a bunch of money.

01:27:44.620 There are those that actually, like, hold the world together and, like, align it towards the highest good.

01:27:51.300 Final segment with Jonathan here in just a second.

01:27:54.220 First, let me talk to you about pre-born.

01:27:56.100 The sanctity of life that is this month.

01:27:59.120 We honor the 66 million babies whose lives have been tragically ended through abortion since Roe versus Wade.

01:28:05.420 Sadly, since Roe was overturned, babies' lives are even at greater risk because the abortion pill accounts for over 60% of all abortions now.

01:28:15.960 This tragedy is even a bigger tragedy because it's available on man 24-7.

01:28:22.420 But in the midst of this darkness, there is a light that shines and it's pre-born.

01:28:26.060 They've rescued over 300,000 babies from abortion and every day, on average, they rescue another 200.

01:28:32.100 When a woman is considering abortion, she hears her baby's heartbeat and sees the face on ultrasound, the baby's chance at life is doubled.

01:28:40.120 Pre-born shares free heartbeats and God's love for mom and child.

01:28:45.060 They both need our help.

01:28:47.320 For just $28, the cost of a dinner, you can sponsor an ultrasound and introduce a mom to her baby for the first time.

01:28:53.200 100% of your donation will go towards saving babies.

01:28:56.340 Will you help?

01:28:56.900 Dial pound 250, say the keyword baby.

01:28:59.440 That's pound 250, keyword baby.

01:29:01.920 Or go to preborn.com slash Glenn.

01:29:04.380 That's preborn.com slash Glenn.

01:29:09.020 Can I ask you, we talked on radio today a little bit about these aliens.

01:29:17.340 First of all, just what do aliens represent in the world of icons?

01:29:24.300 Well, it's all there in the language if you think about it.

01:29:28.880 So, we say unidentified flying objects.

01:29:31.800 It's so funny because when someone asks you, they ask you, do you believe in unidentified flying objects?

01:29:35.560 You're like, well, how could I not believe in unidentified?

01:29:37.940 They're unidentified flying objects.

01:29:39.880 So, of course, I believe in that.

01:29:40.680 You're not asking me if I believe in.

01:29:42.160 It's like, what are you asking?

01:29:43.620 It's like, do you believe in aliens?

01:29:44.740 Well, of course, I believe in aliens.

01:29:46.180 Aliens means things that I don't know what they are or people that I don't know what they are or creatures that I don't know what they are.

01:29:51.080 So, obviously, aliens exist and UFOs exist.

01:29:56.500 Now, what does it mean in terms of the story?

01:29:59.380 And the key is in that question.

01:30:02.260 The key is, what is something that's alien?

01:30:05.280 What is something that presents itself to you as a puzzle?

01:30:09.540 Something that you don't know what it is.

01:30:12.100 A strange, a stranger, right?

01:30:14.040 It's like, a stranger isn't like a specific type of person.

01:30:17.920 It's just the type of person that you don't know.

01:30:19.760 And so, the fact, and this has to do with this question, the fact that we're obsessed with the strange, we're obsessed with difference, is the mythological expression of that is something like obsessed with UFOs and obsessed with aliens, right?

01:30:36.140 Because we see value in the alien, that which is...

01:30:40.400 Wait, so this is the tyranny of exception.

01:30:44.060 Something like that, yeah.

01:30:45.220 Yeah, and so, people project, and so people, well, there are two sides of it.

01:30:50.420 Like, if you look at the mythology of aliens, you kind of have two aspects of it.

01:30:53.820 On the one hand, you have the alien in the sense of the different monster that comes and eats me, right?

01:31:00.080 So, if you think of, like, War of the Worlds, you know, or Independence Day, that's how it's presented.

01:31:04.760 And so, we're America, there are these, like, things that we don't know what they are, they're attacking us, they're invading us, they're trying to destroy us, and we have to stop them, right?

01:31:13.820 So, that's one image of the strange.

01:31:16.600 There's another one, which is a fetishization of the strange, which is, they're angels.

01:31:21.480 They're going to save us.

01:31:23.140 These aliens, they're superior.

01:31:24.900 They're more advanced.

01:31:25.780 It's like, we have all this type of imagery that projects them into this higher role, where they are now going to kind of save us.

01:31:32.960 So, we have to be attentive to that, right?

01:31:34.620 We really have to be attentive to when people kind of fall into these narrative images about what it is that these strange and unidentified things are, because it tells us, first of all, it shows us that we're dealing with a world that's on the limit, right?

01:31:50.640 So, the strange manifests itself on the border, right?

01:31:53.600 So, you have an identity, you have a border, and that which is on the other side, that's what's strange.

01:31:59.200 It's the dragon that's out there.

01:32:00.980 But there is.

01:32:02.020 But there's also the dragon in the elite circle, in the government, you're like, I don't trust that either, to protect me.

01:32:08.400 That is one of the problems of our moment now, which is, normally, your leader, your father, is the origin of you, right?

01:32:20.340 The peepers that are above you, they are related to you, like, not necessarily biological, but they're related to you in the sense that they identify with you as a body, and you are serving them.

01:32:30.440 They're serving you.

01:32:31.140 And so, that's like a normal thing, but one of the problems we have now is that we have this weird situation where people think that the elites want something else, like they are a strange influence on us.

01:32:45.160 And so, that's like the, you could say, it's the infiltration of the strange into the hierarchy.

01:32:52.620 It's a kind of corruption from inside, and the corruption from inside, everybody understands it.

01:32:58.960 There's a mythological image, which is the lizard people, but there's also, you know, the police chief that is serving another interest besides the one he's supposed to serve.

01:33:07.380 His interest is he wants to fill his pockets.

01:33:09.840 So, because of that, he's corrupting the world because he's using his position of authority in order to gather things to himself rather than do the job he's supposed to do.

01:33:20.260 And so, we can understand this idea of the influence of the strange in our world.

01:33:26.800 Now, that's the negative aspect of it.

01:33:29.460 The reason why we also have this image of like the kind of glowing alien or the one that's going to save us is that sometimes the strange is also a land of opportunity, right?

01:33:41.480 So, like, that's where trade comes from.

01:33:43.220 So, the stranger brings new things, like things that we, and so we want to engage with that which is strange

01:33:49.560 because there are hidden treasures, there are like hidden opportunities, it grows your world, it makes your world bigger.

01:33:55.820 If you kind of engage with the people around you, with the people you don't know, or things you don't know,

01:34:00.220 there are like little treasures hidden in that.

01:34:02.340 And that's what, so the mythological image is these two extremes, right?

01:34:06.380 This idea of like the alien that will save us, right?

01:34:09.400 Or the alien that will devour us.

01:34:11.060 But the reality is in our everyday life is there's a kind of balance between the two, right?

01:34:16.920 So, think about like, you know, if you think about the idea even just of space exploration, you know,

01:34:25.500 this idea of going out like a, it's a mariner's tale, like this idea of going out on a boat and like discovering new lands

01:34:30.780 and then there are like all these new treasures.

01:34:32.280 But then there are also, you know, like we saw in the Columbian Exchange, there's also like disease

01:34:36.880 and all these things that happen at the conjunction of that which is known and that which is strange.

01:34:41.500 So, that's a way, in terms of storytelling, that's a way of understanding it.

01:34:44.600 We can see how it affects our thinking.

01:34:48.600 That to me is more important than understanding what these things are.

01:34:51.720 So, let me just break it down so that people understand that.

01:34:55.180 So, let's say we have these unidentified flying things, right?

01:34:58.460 And so, we can say, clearly, that they are an alien influence on us.

01:35:04.580 There's some kind of foreign influence on our society, but we don't know what it is because that's why it's unidentified.

01:35:12.840 So, is it extraterrestrials from like other planets that are trying to kind of pierce into our world and communicate with us?

01:35:19.140 We don't know.

01:35:19.660 Is it aliens from another dimension or whatever that are trying?

01:35:22.440 We don't know.

01:35:23.000 Is it foreign governments that are trying to spy on us?

01:35:25.680 Or is it our government that are doing things that we don't know what it is and that are hiding from us?

01:35:30.700 All of those, in terms of story, are the same.

01:35:34.700 They are foreign alien influences that are trying to affect us and we don't know what they are. 0.99

01:35:40.840 So, whichever it is, and I'm not saying it's one or the other, but whichever it is, we can see it in the same way.

01:35:46.400 So, instead of debating, just like, obviously, we have to find out what these are because it's dangerous to have alien influences that you can't recognize and you can't identify.

01:35:56.880 It's very dangerous to have that.

01:35:58.040 It's like a spy or like, you know.

01:35:59.880 Well, it's also, you know, part of this is, you know, I've had the thought, is this the government staging this to distract us or to do some sort of mind game on us?

01:36:13.700 Because it does play mind games on people.

01:36:15.840 And that would be a lizard person situation.

01:36:19.260 Right.

01:36:19.480 Where the government has intentions that are opaque to us.

01:36:23.040 Yes.

01:36:23.380 Even though they're supposed to be our leaders.

01:36:24.960 Right.

01:36:25.180 But they're supposed to help us.

01:36:26.480 Right.

01:36:26.740 But they have other intentions.

01:36:28.100 We don't know what they are.

01:36:28.760 They're opaque.

01:36:29.200 And so, they're lying to us and pretending about these things.

01:36:32.820 What happens to a society where you don't get the answer?

01:36:38.360 I think that either it leads to further breakdown or it's a hidden aspect to create more tyranny.

01:36:47.520 It has to be one or the other.

01:36:48.500 Right.

01:36:48.940 So, it's like if the government, let's say, is trying to establish more control over us and they use this smoke screen, the smoke show of like aliens that are coming to distract us while they're doing something else.

01:37:03.020 Like a magic show.

01:37:04.440 Right.

01:37:04.920 It's like it leads towards tyranny.

01:37:06.820 If it's, you know, if it's like a foreign governments that are trying to like get information from us or do that, then it leads to similar consequences, which is basically being taken over by a foreign power.

01:37:19.980 And so, all of these, that's why, you know, when you have.

01:37:23.000 But wouldn't it be better for society if the government came out and said whatever answer it is and just said, look, here's all of the documents.

01:37:32.800 We really don't know what it is, but we think it's this.

01:37:38.140 Isn't that better long term for a people than saying, what are you talking about?

01:37:44.140 That's a conspiracy theory.

01:37:46.340 For sure, there's a game being played.

01:37:48.840 There's definitely a game being played.

01:37:50.520 I think that the U.S. government, but not just the U.S. government, the modern government uses secrecy, you know.

01:37:59.360 That we are used to thinking that it's normal that the government keeps secrets from its people.

01:38:04.900 And they, you know, it's not.

01:38:06.680 It's absolutely not normal.

01:38:08.160 It's very odd that we have these secret agencies that function without.

01:38:13.080 We don't even know what their what their structure of accountability is.

01:38:16.380 I've talked to congressmen who oversee those people.

01:38:18.680 And they don't even know.

01:38:19.320 And they say, I'm not telling you.

01:38:22.140 I oversee you.

01:38:24.120 I'm oversight.

01:38:25.440 Yeah.

01:38:25.720 Nope.

01:38:26.200 Nope.

01:38:26.640 Yeah.

01:38:27.300 Yeah.

01:38:27.580 That's not normal.

01:38:28.440 That's a very, very dangerous situation.

01:38:30.060 For sure.

01:38:31.120 Yeah.

01:38:31.460 Yeah.

01:38:31.760 And it has to do with this problem.

01:38:34.560 You know, because think about the secret.

01:38:37.840 Like a secret is a good way to understand what it is we're talking about.

01:38:40.780 So a secret is something that's hidden.

01:38:43.060 That's unknown.

01:38:44.660 That's similar to the alien.

01:38:47.140 There's something happening and it's hidden.

01:38:50.220 I don't know what it is.

01:38:52.120 I can see some like I can see some things poking out.

01:38:54.840 Like I can see things kind of poking out and, and I can see that there's some phenomena,

01:38:58.120 but there's a secret, right?

01:39:00.280 And that, that exactly.

01:39:02.480 How can I say this?

01:39:03.580 That is this, that is the realm of that, all of this story, the realm of the alien, the

01:39:09.420 realm of all of this stuff.

01:39:10.380 But it's also, it's also the realm of iconography.

01:39:13.800 Is it not?

01:39:14.800 There is something there, but it's, it's kind of hidden.

01:39:19.500 You have to study it and you can find the answer.

01:39:23.140 And it, it has the story.

01:39:25.660 Yeah.

01:39:26.020 Well, so there's, there's a type of secret that is bound in religious stories, which is

01:39:31.740 something like the secret of the sacred, the secret of the divine, right?

01:39:36.700 So God does, God reveals himself in small ways and behind those revelations is something

01:39:44.840 much larger and bigger and more and loftier, right?

01:39:48.720 So in that sense, that is the, that's the good secret.

01:39:52.420 There is obviously something that's a good secret, which is, you know, there is something

01:39:57.060 of a good example would be like, there is the secret intimacy that you share with your

01:40:01.440 wife.

01:40:01.980 That's a good secret, right?

01:40:03.800 That is, that is very different from, it's very different from the alien conspiracy type

01:40:10.980 secret.

01:40:11.640 Yeah.

01:40:11.880 A destructive secret.

01:40:13.380 But secrets aren't bad in themselves.

01:40:15.340 Like intimacy is a form of secret.

01:40:17.280 Yeah.

01:40:17.920 But like, it's different from intimacy and alien is the opposite from each other.

01:40:22.840 Right.

01:40:23.300 Intimacy is a secret that we share together and that we know.

01:40:25.900 And it's to our goodness.

01:40:27.820 And the alien secret is a secret that I'm keeping from others with other intentions that

01:40:33.880 are using you to get something that I don't know what it is from you.

01:40:37.800 It's very different.

01:40:39.360 It's great to talk to you.

01:40:40.240 I hope you come back.

01:40:41.280 Oh, definitely.

01:40:42.000 It was a great conversation.

01:40:43.060 I really appreciate it.

01:40:43.780 Thank you so much.

01:40:44.660 Thanks.

01:40:45.120 Thanks.

01:40:50.620 Just a reminder, I'd love you to rate and subscribe to the podcast and pass this on to

01:40:55.880 a friend so it can be discovered by other people.

01:40:57.880 Thank you.

01:40:57.920 Thank you.

01:40:57.940 Thank you.

The Glenn Beck Program - January 18, 2025

Ep 241 ｜ People, Angels & Demons： Do They Walk Among Us？｜ The Glenn Beck Podcast

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript

The Glenn Beck Program - January 18, 2025

Ep 241 ｜ People, Angels & Demons： Do They Walk Among Us？ ｜ The Glenn Beck Podcast

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript

Ep 241 ｜ People, Angels & Demons： Do They Walk Among Us？｜ The Glenn Beck Podcast