The Glenn Beck Program - Ep 243 ｜ NEW EVIDENCE： Shroud of Turin Shows Exact Moment of Resurrection？!

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00:00:30.000 And now, a Blaze Media Podcast.

00:00:34.120 Are you ready to see the face of Jesus?

00:00:36.980 Because in 2025, you can.

00:00:40.460 And thanks in part to my next guest.

00:00:42.960 You will see it.

00:00:44.400 Scientific advancement and now artificial intelligence are working to prove a lot of things.

00:00:49.520 The validity of the Gospels and the historic evidence for the resurrection of Jesus.

00:00:54.680 You might be skeptical.

00:00:55.740 So was my next guest until he was faced with too many facts to ignore.

00:01:02.100 He has studied what we are going to talk about today for years.

00:01:06.700 He is now one of the leading authorities.

00:01:08.200 He's going to talk about the death, the burial, and the resurrection of Christ.

00:01:11.720 What was it actually like?

00:01:13.540 And how the top scientific minds studying the ancient Shroud of Turin may have changed the world forever.

00:01:22.880 The Shroud of Turin.

00:01:24.720 It is an amazing piece of evidence that now has new science to back it up.

00:01:31.220 Welcome, distinguished New Testament scholar, pastor, author, and president of Christian Thinker Society, Jeremiah J. Johnston.

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00:02:44.040 I have to start with this, that I grew up Catholic, so I know what the Shroud of Turin is.

00:03:05.300 But back in the day, people that are evangelicals would say, that's just a Catholic relic.

00:03:14.560 It's not real.

00:03:16.620 And then dating happened in the late 80s, and they said, no, it's not from the right time period.

00:03:23.320 It's a hoax.

00:03:23.900 It's a forge.

00:03:24.840 But everything has changed now, right?

00:03:27.160 Correct.

00:03:27.520 So let's start with, what is this?

00:03:30.640 Absolutely.

00:03:31.260 The Shroud of Turin is thought to be the burial cloth of the historical Jesus of Nazareth,

00:03:37.480 meaning that it's about 14 feet 3 inches long by 3 feet 7 inches wide.

00:03:44.120 And it's thought that Joseph of Arimathea had purchased this for himself as his own pre-death

00:03:50.520 planning, along with the new tomb.

00:03:53.100 And so even though Jesus is executed in an excruciating fashion as a criminal, he's buried

00:03:58.720 as a king.

00:03:59.880 And the Shroud of Turin gives physical evidence of that fact.

00:04:04.160 When did we first see the Shroud of Turin appear?

00:04:05.760 The Shroud of Turin first appears in John chapter 20.

00:04:09.120 We see this word sindon used in Athonia in Greek.

00:04:12.400 And we also see the Greek word sudarion, which is the face cloth.

00:04:16.160 And then we know that John gives it to Thomas.

00:04:18.140 And then the early church historian who was right there at the Council of Nicaea, Eusebius,

00:04:22.980 begins to tell us about the Shroud of Turin.

00:04:24.980 Now, he doesn't use those words.

00:04:26.260 Now, Glenn, I'm from Kansas City, okay?

00:04:28.140 So I'm a massive Chiefs fan.

00:04:30.580 But the Chiefs have not always been called the Kansas City Chiefs.

00:04:33.180 You know, right after you were born, they were called the Dallas Texans.

00:04:36.760 Same team.

00:04:37.500 Very similar with the image of Edessa, the mandolin, the face of Jesus.

00:04:43.440 It's been known by different names throughout antiquity.

00:04:47.040 It only came to be known as the Shroud of Turin in the 16th century when it finally goes to

00:04:52.140 turn Italy.

00:04:53.060 Exactly.

00:04:53.140 So this has been known from the beginning.

00:04:56.680 Exactly.

00:04:57.120 It didn't just appear.

00:04:58.100 Historically, we have a historical record both in the documents and also in art and in numismatics,

00:05:05.540 coins of the Shroud, which is fascinating.

00:05:08.560 It goes back much older than the Middle Ages.

00:05:12.100 Okay, so let's start with that.

00:05:14.740 Let's just start with the evidence that before it becomes what it is now, before it goes to

00:05:20.520 Turin, let's start with some of the evidence that it existed.

00:05:23.700 Absolutely.

00:05:24.260 The coins, the art.

00:05:25.480 What do you mean?

00:05:25.940 Well, and I want to start originally with the best documents that we have, which are the

00:05:29.720 canonical gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John.

00:05:32.360 All four of those make reference to the fact that Joseph of Arimathea and Nicodemus prepared

00:05:37.980 Jesus's body for burial.

00:05:39.520 This is accurate based on Jewish burial traditions.

00:05:43.700 An atheist archaeologist at University of North Carolina, Jody Magnus, says the gospels

00:05:48.020 get it right when it comes to Jewish burial traditions based on archaeology.

00:05:53.420 And so Joseph of Arimathea has a very expensive, we know from the Shroud, it has a herringbone

00:05:58.920 weave.

00:05:59.880 Now, Glenn, the only reason I know what herringbone is is I had to buy that for a backsplash for

00:06:03.520 my wife, and I just know it was the more expensive one.

00:06:06.020 Right, yeah, right.

00:06:06.780 So this was an expensive weave, but we have hundreds of shrouds from the land of Israel.

00:06:13.120 We have hundreds of shrouds from Jerusalem and the Qumran community.

00:06:18.280 Very few of them, if any, have the herringbone weave.

00:06:20.940 So this was a rich man's burial garment.

00:06:24.140 So it shows up there.

00:06:25.660 John 20 is a key passage because, and I, you know, it's amazing when you read the scripture,

00:06:31.060 you read it so many times, but then it's like you read it for the very first time.

00:06:34.840 It speaks to you.

00:06:36.300 In John chapter 20, John outruns Peter to the tomb of Jesus, which we'll discuss in a minute.

00:06:42.320 It's not until he looks in and it says he saw in Greek three times.

00:06:47.140 He saw, he saw bleepo.

00:06:49.720 He saw with understanding, theoretical understanding.

00:06:54.020 Then he saw with experience three times.

00:06:56.060 The Athonia, the Sinden, the burial shroud of Jesus and the face garment, the Sudarian, which

00:07:02.900 we have.

00:07:04.140 And then he believed.

00:07:06.000 So right there is where the, where the shroud mystery begins.

00:07:09.460 And they would not have just shuffled these burial garments because it's not like it's

00:07:14.660 shoved.

00:07:15.060 The body is, we'll talk about emanates through the cloth in the resurrection moment, which

00:07:20.360 we'll talk about.

00:07:21.200 And then Thomas Eusebius tells us that the disciple Thomas, who Eusebius is a respected church historian.

00:07:27.860 Okay.

00:07:28.300 I'm, I'm not doing Christian history right now.

00:07:30.680 I'm not losing my mind.

00:07:31.880 I'm not privileging this with some kind of Christian bias.

00:07:34.680 I'm looking at this and evaluating the evidence that you asked about.

00:07:38.220 It goes to Edessa, where a king is said to have actually been healed by it.

00:07:43.880 And there it stays until the Muslim invasion of the sixth century, when it then goes to

00:07:50.080 Constantinople.

00:07:51.240 And we hear, we read about it there.

00:07:53.080 And then it eventually goes to France.

00:07:55.100 It's been in private hands.

00:07:56.440 And so where you and I were raised thinking that, oh, this is like the three wise men,

00:08:00.500 you know, you can go see the three wise men in Cologne, in the cathedral.

00:08:03.920 This is not a Catholic relic.

00:08:06.040 It did not come into be, and to say it accurately, the Pope is custodial of the Turin Shroud.

00:08:13.580 It was given to him personally, but not until the 1980s, 1985 to be exact.

00:08:19.940 So I was, I was conditioned both from my background and from my education to think, oh, there's

00:08:25.500 nothing scientific about that.

00:08:27.240 In this corner, by where you see his feet on the backside, there is a large section taken

00:08:37.580 out.

00:08:38.400 What is that?

00:08:39.280 Very good eye, Glenn.

00:08:40.340 And so because the Shroud of Turin was held in private family hands, noble hands, the hands

00:08:46.300 of a knight, it would be brought out at special occasions.

00:08:49.100 Like if you were having Glenn and Tanya over for dinner, you brought the Shroud of Turin out.

00:08:52.820 You wanted to impress your guests, or if your child was getting baptized, you would bring

00:08:58.140 out the Shroud and be like, I can one-up you.

00:08:59.940 And we know, again, from the historical record that pieces of the Shroud were given away to

00:09:06.520 dignitaries as gifts, or even as marriage dowries.

00:09:10.460 You would give them a piece of Jesus' burial cloth.

00:09:13.420 Isn't that fascinating?

00:09:14.320 And you can see that right here in our museum replica.

00:09:16.820 Okay, so before we get to the, well, first, talk to me about the coins, the face of Christ,

00:09:25.220 and the icon.

00:09:26.940 Yes.

00:09:27.300 And so when you look at the artwork, the skeptics will say that this is a medieval forgery based

00:09:33.460 on the carbon-14 dating.

00:09:35.400 Again, we can't trust this.

00:09:37.200 This is the product of a forger.

00:09:39.800 Never mind, it cannot be duplicated.

00:09:42.080 One man has offered over a million British pounds to anyone who can duplicate what's

00:09:46.420 in the Shroud of Turin.

00:09:47.900 And we see this evidential, these evidential breadcrumbs where we know that in the coins,

00:09:54.860 numismatics, we see the exact same image of the face of Jesus in coins that corresponds

00:10:01.540 with the face of Jesus on the Shroud of Turin.

00:10:04.920 And then if you go to Sinai and you begin to see the icons and art, you see that all

00:10:10.280 of the earliest art of Jesus that we have, he's bearded.

00:10:13.980 I want to correct people who think that Jesus didn't have a beard.

00:10:16.900 No, he would have taken the Nazarite vow and his beard probably would have grown 21 inches

00:10:21.460 during his three and a half year ministry that we know from the synoptics and John's

00:10:25.020 gospel.

00:10:25.460 So he was a bearded man.

00:10:26.920 He was a physically fit man.

00:10:28.740 I'm a historical Jesus scholar.

00:10:30.260 So I've given my life to study the historical Jesus.

00:10:32.820 Jesus probably walked somewhere around 15 to 20,000 miles in his lifetime.

00:10:37.380 If you add up all of his trips to Jerusalem, this is a strong man.

00:10:41.300 This is a man's man.

00:10:42.880 And we see all of that reflected in the iconography and the earliest Christian art.

00:10:48.440 We see that in the icon at Sinai.

00:10:50.380 What is the most famous icon painting of his face that's like split in half, right?

00:10:55.200 Yes, this is fascinating because I actually have a dear friend, Doug Powell, who's taken

00:11:00.300 that icon in the image of the shroud, and he's put it in mid-journey AI to produce what I

00:11:07.020 think is the best, closest image of the face of Jesus.

00:11:10.520 And it is a Semitic man.

00:11:12.260 It is a man from the land of Israel.

00:11:14.040 It's not the effeminate Jesus of medieval Christian art.

00:11:18.440 The effeminate Jesus, the weak Jesus, the no beard Jesus, all of the earliest coins, the

00:11:24.500 earliest icon from Sinai and many others.

00:11:27.160 And my slides, when I teach students, I mean, you just, again, see this resemblance all emanating

00:11:31.900 off of the source material.

00:11:33.940 And the source material for the artist is that face right there that we see right here

00:11:38.680 in your studio.

00:11:39.660 Okay.

00:11:40.820 So this is such an amazing, let's just call it for now, let's just call it art.

00:11:47.040 Correct.

00:11:47.420 As an artist, myself, if I put myself back in time, you know, even 150 years, I don't

00:12:00.900 know what a negative is.

00:12:02.120 Exactly.

00:12:02.860 Okay.

00:12:03.500 So this requires somebody a thousand years ago, at worst, okay, a thousand years, perpetrating

00:12:12.880 a fraud with the face of Christ in something that no one understood, a negative, right?

00:12:21.360 Right.

00:12:21.760 And we're just getting started.

00:12:23.780 We haven't even talked about the pollen.

00:12:25.520 We haven't talked about the blood type.

00:12:27.580 I mean, for this to be a work of a forger, the best modern scientists, and Glenn, I want

00:12:32.720 to be clear when I say this, 500,000 interdisciplinary hours have been spent studying this object

00:12:38.900 by 63 different academic disciplines.

00:12:43.980 63.

00:12:44.760 I have one academic discipline as a historian, as a first century scholar.

00:12:48.940 63 different academic disciplines cannot explain how there is an image in the Shroud of Turin.

00:12:55.040 They cannot explain it.

00:12:56.200 So let me go to, in 88, they said this was a forgery.

00:12:59.800 Yes.

00:13:00.120 And it came from that corner, the opposite corner.

00:13:03.380 Yes.

00:13:03.720 Tell me what happened.

00:13:04.840 In that corner, in the top left, if you're looking at the Shroud, this is the very infamous

00:13:09.940 corner, three different labs received a piece of the Shroud about the size of our pinky,

00:13:15.860 okay?

00:13:16.420 And they carbon dated that source material.

00:13:22.460 And if you look at the original STIRP team's finding, that's the Shroud of Turin Research

00:13:26.920 Project, they explain exactly what happened.

00:13:30.600 Many of these men have published, and women have published, peer-reviewed journals, not

00:13:35.120 in popularizers, but peer-reviewed journals interacting with the carbon-14 dating.

00:13:40.640 And what we can say, Glenn, unequivocally, is the carbon-14 dating is totally erroneous.

00:13:46.140 And we know that because they took patches.

00:13:49.200 The Shroud has survived at least three fires.

00:13:52.640 But specifically, in the 16th century, in the mid-1500s, the Shroud survives a fire in

00:14:00.240 Chambury, France.

00:14:01.840 And there, the nuns, not only sewed in these triangles, see all the triangles for the benefit

00:14:07.040 of our audience as well?

00:14:08.260 The fire almost took the Shroud.

00:14:11.060 It was folded in a box, and so those horizontal black lines, those are scorch marks, okay?

00:14:16.900 The 16 triangles are patches, but we also, the evidence tells us that the nuns also patched

00:14:24.280 the fraying edges of this 0.3-millimeter-thick linen, fine linen shroud.

00:14:31.060 And they did a technique, and again, anyone can read this, okay?

00:14:34.360 All you have to do, we learn from everyone, but don't ever let anyone think for you.

00:14:37.700 You can see that there is cotton that is invisibly woven into the patchwork of the fibers of the

00:14:46.020 linen shroud.

00:14:46.840 So let me be clear.

00:14:48.260 The data, it was a problem of sampling.

00:14:51.360 It was a problem of the sample that was taken.

00:14:54.360 They took literally a patch sample, and then the headline was, this is a medieval forgery.

00:14:59.220 It's from 1260 to 1380.

00:15:01.700 So I talked to Schwartz, who was one of the lead scientists on that, an atheist.

00:15:08.520 Correct.

00:15:09.540 Who, when he discovered what happened and where the patch was taken from, he reversed himself.

00:15:17.460 Did he not?

00:15:18.060 He did.

00:15:18.640 Yeah.

00:15:18.840 And he became a great Christian, and as an atheist, he's like, I'm telling you that's

00:15:27.840 real.

00:15:28.400 And not only an atheist, as you know from interviewing him, but a Jewish atheist, by the way.

00:15:34.440 A Jewish, and very much skeptical.

00:15:38.260 It took him 17 years to believe in the authenticity of the shroud, and he is the documenting photographer.

00:15:43.140 And so what we have in your studios today is the photograph that Barry Schwartz took during

00:15:48.760 the five days, 120 hours, that the scientists had access to the shroud.

00:15:54.100 The only time it's ever happened in history was that moment.

00:15:57.140 And this photograph is based on the shroud.

00:16:00.240 And it's actually printed on linen.

00:16:01.680 That's right.

00:16:02.140 It's printed, and we can actually go up and touch it.

00:16:05.460 We can feel it.

00:16:06.400 And what's phenomenal about it is when you hold up, and I love doing this with audiences

00:16:10.640 and with students, when you invert your iPhone, or for those that have Androids, or however

00:16:15.300 you do that, when you invert your phone and you look at the picture of the crucified man,

00:16:20.380 you see it in the negative.

00:16:22.500 He's actually photopositive.

00:16:24.620 That's the fascinating thing.

00:16:25.960 This is actually the sepia tone, faint image that looks like a dirty sheet is actually the

00:16:31.320 photopositive.

00:16:32.500 When we see the negative, we see the man in the positive.

00:16:35.560 Right.

00:16:35.660 And what we're seeing is the moment of resurrection.

00:16:38.360 If you were faking this back then, you would not have made it this faint.

00:16:44.960 No.

00:16:45.380 Because honestly, I could look at that sheet and look at it for a long time and then wonder,

00:16:51.280 am I seeing a face there?

00:16:53.360 Is that, you know, this is so unbelievably subtle.

00:16:57.940 Now, we've gone back.

00:16:59.180 So, Mack technology has taken us back into the Shroud, and they have found seeds and everything

00:17:06.860 that originates from Jerusalem at that time, right?

00:17:10.280 That's right.

00:17:10.780 So, Max Fry, a criminologist, spent five years of his life studying all of the pollen spores

00:17:16.440 on the Shroud of Turin.

00:17:19.220 And you would think, okay, if this is a forgery, you're going to find pollen, you're going to

00:17:23.000 find all kinds of things from plant life in Europe.

00:17:26.780 What does he find?

00:17:28.000 The majority of the pollen found blooms in Jerusalem, and it doesn't bloom year-round.

00:17:33.760 It only blooms around the springtime Passover.

00:17:37.140 We know we can date, based on the historical record, Jesus' death by crucifixion, which is

00:17:41.760 the best established fact of the ancient world.

00:17:43.660 He dies by Roman crucifixion April 3rd, AD 33, springtime.

00:17:48.560 And so, there's two-thirds of all the pollen spores are from, specifically, Jerusalem.

00:17:54.920 And again, this is a criminologist, not a theologian, Max Fry, saying, I've given five

00:17:59.760 years of my life to this.

00:18:00.860 How would you fake that if you were a forger?

00:18:03.340 And then-

00:18:03.660 How would you even know how to fake that?

00:18:05.460 Back then, you wouldn't.

00:18:06.500 That's the point.

00:18:07.240 And this is where I want to just share with you, Glenn, the Shroud of Turin is the most

00:18:11.320 light-about artifact from antiquity.

00:18:14.840 There's not a close second.

00:18:17.120 Scholars, Bible scholars, dismiss it.

00:18:20.220 I'm sitting in Keeble College, Oxford, Faculty of Theology, where I would go to attend Faculty

00:18:25.360 of Theology, led by Marcus Bachmühl.

00:18:27.860 I have written a 93,000-word uberlieferungsgeschichte of resurrection, the tradition of resurrection

00:18:34.640 belief in the Judeo-Christian motif.

00:18:37.600 It's published.

00:18:38.820 It's been written for dozens in the academic world.

00:18:41.640 And asked me how many times in Faculty of Theology or working in the Griffith Papyrology

00:18:48.760 Lab, where I studied codicology and ancient texts, asked me how many times anyone ever

00:18:53.620 brought up the Shroud of Turin to me, studying the resurrection at the primary terminal level.

00:18:59.960 How many?

00:19:00.760 Zero.

00:19:02.000 It was laughed about.

00:19:03.660 So Bible scholars dismiss it.

00:19:06.240 Scientists suppress it.

00:19:08.000 The British Museum, which is tied into one of the three, I mentioned the three Oxford labs

00:19:13.280 that did the carbon-14 dating, you can look at the peer-reviewed journal.

00:19:17.380 For over 20 years, they suppressed the raw data.

00:19:20.920 And it took a French attorney who believed in the validity of the Shroud as an authentic

00:19:25.720 artifact to get them to finally release just the raw data.

00:19:30.120 So I can share what I'm sharing with you today that, okay, the raw data shows it was a, it

00:19:34.860 was a poison sample, as it were.

00:19:37.040 It was a sample that was, was doctored.

00:19:39.760 Motivation?

00:19:41.360 The motivation is John chapter 11, Jesus raises Lazarus from the dead.

00:19:48.560 And people that don't want to believe in truth, no evidence is enough.

00:19:52.300 They refuse to believe that Jesus is who he says he is, even with Lazarus, who would begin

00:19:59.040 to have an odor from after rigor mortis, is raised before them.

00:20:04.060 So for some people, no evidence is enough.

00:20:06.580 When I was defending my thesis after three years of my life, the man who I'm defending

00:20:12.540 it to has the power to pass me in my viva.

00:20:14.680 He says, do you actually believe the resurrection of Jesus happened, Jeremiah?

00:20:18.560 Brian has a big, wonderful man, big British, British bow tie.

00:20:21.900 But he said, or is that just imaginative storytelling?

00:20:25.900 And I said, David Hume chooses, probably said, wise men choose probabilities.

00:20:29.820 I believe Jesus physically rose from the grave.

00:20:32.160 That's the best explanation of the evidence.

00:20:34.420 He said, I don't see it that way.

00:20:36.740 And this is a Bible scholar.

00:20:38.120 Oh yeah, I know.

00:20:39.820 I know.

00:20:40.380 I, I, I spoke to Dominic Crossan one time, you know, of course, and, uh, and, uh, he's

00:20:46.160 a great guy and, and, and, and, yeah, but he absolutely didn't happen.

00:20:52.580 Right.

00:20:52.960 Didn't happen.

00:20:53.720 And so what, what's the motivation for those that turn their hearts from truth?

00:20:58.000 No evidence is enough.

00:20:59.120 Yeah.

00:20:59.380 And so I want to be true addicted to truth.

00:21:01.100 That's why I love your program.

00:21:02.140 That's why I love what you stand for.

00:21:03.500 Thanks.

00:21:04.180 Um, okay.

00:21:05.060 So we have the evidence that the carbon dating now we have done again and it's right.

00:21:11.280 So we have not carbon dated it.

00:21:13.200 We have actually other ways in which we have better, this is breaking news.

00:21:17.400 Okay.

00:21:17.680 We have something called waxes dating, wide angle x-ray scattering.

00:21:22.320 And this is really fun.

00:21:23.760 You know how I mentioned, um, that we have other burial shrouds of Jesus from the land

00:21:28.000 of Israel.

00:21:28.460 Right.

00:21:28.840 So there's a lab in Italy that has a burial shroud that we know is from Masada and you've

00:21:33.980 been to Israel.

00:21:34.620 You know all about Masada, the last stand against Titus.

00:21:38.140 Um, so we have this, we know the date is sound 80, 70 or so, right?

00:21:42.500 And so they have that shroud sampling and then they took a sample, a correct sample of the

00:21:48.520 shroud, and they compare that using wide angle x-ray scattering.

00:21:52.520 And they see that there has been 2000 years of degradation in the shroud fibrils of this

00:21:59.520 fine lemon garment, meaning it has been getting old for 2000 years, not 700.

00:22:05.400 Think about that variation.

00:22:06.700 And in some skeptics will say, well, Jeremiah and Glenn, um, you know, this is a shroud.

00:22:12.140 This is like a linen.

00:22:13.460 I mean, I have linen.

00:22:14.240 Are you telling me it's surprised it will last 2000 years?

00:22:17.420 Yes.

00:22:18.020 We actually have much older linen garments.

00:22:20.580 You can again, look at the Tarkin dress, which is a beautiful blouse.

00:22:25.080 That's fine linen.

00:22:26.200 And it's 3000 years older than the shroud of turn Glenn.

00:22:29.980 So it's a very stable material given the right circumstances.

00:22:35.120 And again, when Jesus rises from the dead, everything changes in the mind of the first

00:22:40.560 Jews.

00:22:41.020 And so why would they discard this?

00:22:42.720 Okay.

00:22:42.960 Talk about the blood stains on it.

00:22:45.320 And this is so important with you as an artist.

00:22:46.980 How would you know how to forge this?

00:22:49.420 So Alan Adler and other hematologists who are, again, these are experts in the blood.

00:22:54.980 Glenn, I've taken blood samples and if we had an ultraviolet light right now, there'd be

00:22:59.020 a lot of fun, Glenn, because I could show you that the shroud, the number one substance

00:23:03.420 on the shroud is blood.

00:23:05.120 There are pints and pints and pints of blood all over the shroud.

00:23:10.020 There's blood.

00:23:10.760 There's 50 abrasions.

00:23:12.520 We'll get to the crown of thorns on the forehead.

00:23:16.960 372 lacerations from a Roman whip called a phlegm, the flagellation of Jesus.

00:23:23.060 So there's blood everywhere.

00:23:24.640 They test the blood.

00:23:26.140 And again, if you're a forger, you're just going to use animal blood, right?

00:23:29.360 And the blood comes back, human blood.

00:23:32.640 Guess what the blood type is?

00:23:34.720 Type A-B.

00:23:37.000 Less than 3% of the world's population has type A-B blood and it is found primarily in

00:23:43.620 the land of Israel.

00:23:45.140 And it's male blood.

00:23:46.820 They've tested the chromosome.

00:23:49.440 Some people are like, well, could we take the blood and, you know, clone Jesus?

00:23:52.620 No, we don't.

00:23:53.600 That can't be done.

00:23:54.740 I don't recommend that experiment anyway.

00:23:57.100 But it just shows, again, the scriptures say, fully God, fully man.

00:24:01.620 And we see that evidence in the blood.

00:24:03.420 Now, the interesting thing is when we were walking through it, the lance wound in the

00:24:07.000 side is right there in the shroud of turn.

00:24:09.220 We'll talk about this in the way that Jesus died in excruciating fashion.

00:24:13.140 When they look at that blood, that blood they tested, and that is post-mortem blood.

00:24:17.660 He was already dead.

00:24:20.040 That blood is tested differently than the blood on the rest of the shroud.

00:24:24.840 And that is consistent.

00:24:26.500 Pilate is shocked, based on the historical record, that Jesus had died so quickly.

00:24:31.120 Jesus dies in six hours, which shows you the particular brutality that he went through

00:24:36.340 in the scourging and also beating in the house of Caiaphas, et cetera.

00:24:39.960 And yet we know, based on the blood samples, that this is post-mortem blood.

00:24:44.260 So again, if you're going to fake the shroud, you've got to kill a guy.

00:24:47.540 His blood needs to be post-mortem blood, and then you need to slap that on the spear wound.

00:24:52.500 That's nuts.

00:24:53.600 Exactly.

00:24:54.180 And no one would have thought 700 years ago.

00:24:57.760 Right.

00:24:58.020 So how do you explain, or can we explain, I've always thought of the shroud, because it's

00:25:03.200 a negative, as he is resurrected, it's just like a flash of light.

00:25:10.580 Correct.

00:25:11.020 Energy.

00:25:11.700 Correct.

00:25:12.060 That just imprints on this.

00:25:14.360 Yes.

00:25:15.060 Is there another explanation for this?

00:25:17.320 Again, another scientist, another school has given five years to study this.

00:25:21.760 Just the amount of electromagnetic energy or even radiation it would take to produce an

00:25:29.100 image on a shroud like this.

00:25:31.560 But the fascinating thing is the timing, because when they sample it, it takes a lot of time

00:25:36.420 to get the image on the shroud, but then the shroud would burn up almost instantaneously.

00:25:41.020 So we know the image of the shroud based on five years of study on light.

00:25:45.700 And again, you can read all this.

00:25:47.240 It's fascinating.

00:25:48.000 We know that it happened in one fortieth of a billionth of a second.

00:25:52.020 Oh my gosh.

00:25:52.500 One fortieth billionth of a second.

00:25:54.740 And it took 34,000 trillion watts of energy emanating from the body in a flash of one fortieth

00:26:02.420 of a billionth of a second to produce that image.

00:26:05.340 So in other words, God took the first selfie.

00:26:08.580 Wow.

00:26:10.280 And at that, it left an imprint.

00:26:14.560 That is the moment of Jesus' physical, bodily resurrection, Sunday morning, April 5th, AD 33.

00:26:23.940 It's at that moment.

00:26:24.820 And then it's the fall-through theory that the sheet, essentially the body flashes alive

00:26:29.640 and the sheet falls through and Jesus is up.

00:26:32.280 He's walking physically.

00:26:33.720 So they have checked for all other kinds of paint and everything else.

00:26:40.040 And go ahead.

00:26:40.800 You would appreciate this as an artist.

00:26:42.200 When you look at the findings of the STERP team, after three years, they did their research

00:26:47.300 over five days, 1978.

00:26:48.720 They took three years to publish their findings.

00:26:51.020 I mean, this was very well organized.

00:26:52.860 We'll talk about the 3D encoding in the image as well from the VPA analyzer.

00:26:57.120 We'll talk about that.

00:26:57.780 That's fascinating.

00:26:58.920 But when the STERP team came out and they published their findings, they said, we cannot explain it.

00:27:03.180 And listen carefully.

00:27:03.920 No pigment, no dye, no paint, no oxidization from old paint, nothing.

00:27:12.160 Barry Schwartz and all of the...

00:27:13.540 And again, these are not theologians, Glenn.

00:27:15.080 I can't make this more clear.

00:27:16.380 These are people from Sandia Labs, the Air Force Academy, physics professors.

00:27:21.040 They went in and were having drinks in the lobby joking about, I remember it was John Jackson

00:27:26.980 who said, give me 15 minutes with the shroud and the scientific method and I'll prove it's

00:27:31.040 a hoax.

00:27:31.920 And he died.

00:27:32.660 He's become the great defender of the shroud in all of his publications.

00:27:35.980 And so, no pigment, no dye, no paint, the best scientists from the jet propulsion labs cannot

00:27:44.300 tell us how there's an image in that cloth.

00:27:46.320 And it's superficial.

00:27:47.420 This is the fascinating thing.

00:27:48.840 And it took me a while in my research to really, truly appreciate this.

00:27:53.600 The image is razor thin.

00:27:55.940 The blood, when we were walking through the shroud, we can see the blood everywhere.

00:27:59.240 The blood saturates the linen.

00:28:00.980 And there's around 70 to 150 fibers in a single linen thread, okay?

00:28:07.940 The image is only on two to three of those fibers superficially.

00:28:13.520 So, it doesn't go all the way through.

00:28:15.100 The image doesn't go all the way through.

00:28:16.340 It's there superficially.

00:28:18.020 And it's inside two to three of these fibers that make up the single thread of the weave.

00:28:24.920 Wow.

00:28:25.700 And then the blood goes through all of it.

00:28:28.080 Soaks through all of it.

00:28:28.780 So, the blood came first.

00:28:29.940 We know that.

00:28:30.900 Jesus is there.

00:28:31.780 He's wrapped.

00:28:32.480 His body is bloodied.

00:28:34.440 And again, in Jewish burial traditions, when someone died, you buried them that day before

00:28:38.000 nightfall.

00:28:38.600 Remember, they're wanting to bury him before Passover.

00:28:40.640 The Sabbath is coming.

00:28:41.600 They have to quickly bury him.

00:28:42.800 They quickly ask Pilate for the body of Jesus.

00:28:45.580 He's wrapped.

00:28:46.820 And yet, there's no decomposition on the body either.

00:28:50.240 And you ask, and here we have this beautiful replica of the crucified man of the shroud.

00:28:55.060 And you say, Jeremiah, why does it look like his knees are bent and his head is like on

00:28:59.460 a pillow?

00:28:59.900 Well, his body is in a state of rigor mortis.

00:29:02.620 We know rigor mortis lasts 40 hours.

00:29:05.900 Some say longer.

00:29:07.360 Based on my scholarship, Jesus is in the tomb no more than 39 hours.

00:29:11.940 So, he is stiff.

00:29:15.620 Stiff, hard.

00:29:16.780 And hard.

00:29:17.520 Yep.

00:29:17.980 And then the body starts to relax after 40 hours?

00:29:20.400 After 40 hours.

00:29:21.520 But not just to relax.

00:29:23.340 That's when bodily fluids begin to break down.

00:29:26.200 Yeah.

00:29:26.380 Okay.

00:29:26.960 So, we know that his legs were up because you don't see the back of his knees.

00:29:30.860 Yep.

00:29:31.120 You only see the right side more clearly than the left.

00:29:34.260 And again, not a single bone on his body is broken.

00:29:37.780 And again, that goes against Roman crucifixion most of the time.

00:29:41.060 They broke the legs.

00:29:41.700 They would break the shins.

00:29:42.760 They would start there.

00:29:43.780 And we also notice when you look at this that his body is in this shape.

00:29:47.760 His arms are elongated.

00:29:49.420 I don't know if you picked up on that with your artist acumen that his arms seem almost

00:29:53.180 too long.

00:29:53.620 Too long.

00:29:54.280 Do you know why, Glenn?

00:29:55.540 His shoulders have been dislocated.

00:29:57.780 He's asked to carry the patibulum.

00:30:00.140 That's the cross beam.

00:30:01.240 So, I want to correct people.

00:30:02.080 He's not carrying the whole cross.

00:30:03.260 That would have been like 300 pounds.

00:30:04.460 Correct.

00:30:04.620 He's asked to carry the patibulum, just the cross beam.

00:30:07.920 And he might have been chained to other criminals in this processional that goes outside of the

00:30:12.360 city.

00:30:13.240 He falls, he collapses, and it leads to more abrasions on his shoulders.

00:30:18.940 And so, on the back, do you see all the abrasions?

00:30:21.520 Those are from when not just he falls and he drops the cross beam.

00:30:27.000 That's when we believe that his shoulders were dislocated.

00:30:30.800 He hangs on the cross.

00:30:32.340 His shoulders are dislocated, and that's why his arms are elongated and rigor mortis.

00:30:38.280 Oh, my gosh.

00:30:40.180 Let's talk about what we can learn about crucifixion from this.

00:30:46.320 Was it normal to be this brutalized?

00:30:50.320 No, this is fascinating.

00:30:52.960 And it's kind of odd to say that I'm an expert in Roman crucifixion, but that's one of my

00:30:58.300 areas of expertise.

00:30:59.780 And Jesus dies in a particularly demonic, shameful, heinous way.

00:31:06.900 He's brutalized as he goes to the cross.

00:31:09.580 And we've brought some crucifixion elements here.

00:31:12.780 So, let's bring these up here.

00:31:13.860 So, you have the scourge, the spear, the nails, the crown of thorns, which is just horrifying.

00:31:23.980 These are actual Bethlehem thorns, and they're like nails.

00:31:28.520 So, often, we'll start with the crown of thorns.

00:31:32.040 When we look at art, we believe that Jesus is wearing some kind of sweatband or wreath.

00:31:37.560 Yeah, right.

00:31:38.040 You know, a cutesy little crown of thorns.

00:31:40.240 Like a laurel.

00:31:41.640 We know that he's being mocked.

00:31:43.780 We know that as he's led to the cross, he's completely naked.

00:31:46.760 But he's not totally naked because they fashion a crown of thorns, really though a helmet of

00:31:53.520 thorns, a dome, a cap of thorns, and that is pressed into his head.

00:31:57.840 And we know that there are 30 to 50 puncture wounds in the head of the crucified man.

00:32:04.760 We know of only one person from antiquity.

00:32:07.280 We have thousands of crucifixion victims explained, both in the Roman annals, Tacitus, others, Suetonius.

00:32:14.620 We have no mention of a crown of thorns, except in one particular case, the man who said,

00:32:20.140 I'm the king of the Jews.

00:32:21.380 And they fashion a crown of thorns, a helmet of thorns.

00:32:24.640 And one of the applications for me is we live in a time of such despair, such agony, so much

00:32:31.140 anxiety.

00:32:32.080 And we often wonder if God really loves us.

00:32:35.100 When I think about the crown of thorns, when I stare at this glen and I think about it,

00:32:39.220 I think about that passage that Saul of Tarsus wrote in Romans 5, 8.

00:32:43.180 But God demonstrated his love for us, and that while we were his enemies, we were his

00:32:48.260 sinners, he sent Christ to die for us.

00:32:51.180 And that reminds me of the lengths that Jesus would go.

00:32:54.860 What we see in the crown of thorns is love in its most radical form.

00:33:00.220 And it gives us pause, and we say, well, that should have been my head in that crown.

00:33:04.900 It should have been my hands in these nails.

00:33:07.960 It should have been my back with the phlegm.

00:33:09.640 I don't think people understand the crown of thorns until you see the thorns that came

00:33:17.940 from Jerusalem at the time.

00:33:20.200 Correct.

00:33:20.680 I mean, it is horrifying, absolutely horrifying.

00:33:26.780 This is what was used against him?

00:33:29.920 Was it this short?

00:33:31.800 Were they that close?

00:33:32.940 Yes.

00:33:33.240 And these men were experts in execution.

00:33:35.940 They were men.

00:33:36.680 We know that there were at least, there were probably two whipping Jesus.

00:33:41.140 We've counted 372 wounds from scourge marks.

00:33:45.680 Now you can see that has three cords on it and two lead balls.

00:33:50.640 Some have thought bone.

00:33:52.560 So with each lash, you're getting six lashes in when you count up their balls.

00:33:57.020 We know that he's lashed 372 times, but keep in mind, we don't have the lateral sides on

00:34:04.140 the image.

00:34:04.740 This is a 2D image.

00:34:06.580 So I estimate...

00:34:08.220 There's got to be more on the sides than there were.

00:34:11.300 Correct.

00:34:11.860 Yeah.

00:34:12.400 700 wounds that Jesus, the man of the shroud, endured for us from that phlegm, the scourging.

00:34:19.320 And so that was particularly heinous.

00:34:21.180 And that happened on other crucifixions?

00:34:23.800 Absolutely.

00:34:24.280 It did.

00:34:24.520 It did happen.

00:34:25.560 Often crucifixion victims wouldn't even make it to the cross.

00:34:28.800 But again, it seemed that Jesus was brutalized under the reign of Pontius Pilate, who would

00:34:32.900 ultimately get on the outs of Tiberius and die by suicide, interestingly enough.

00:34:37.560 And so that's the phlegm.

00:34:39.260 Glenn, I want you to hold the nails.

00:34:41.660 We know a lot about nails from the archaeology.

00:34:45.360 These are just horrifying.

00:34:49.300 And most people have the nails going through his palm, but it would have ripped...

00:34:55.100 Right through.

00:34:55.420 All that weight would have ripped right through.

00:34:56.840 Would have lacerated right through.

00:34:57.880 So it was actually put right in the wrist.

00:35:00.900 Again, this wasn't the first rodeo, as we say in Texas, of these executioners.

00:35:05.180 Right.

00:35:05.240 They know that Jesus, they knew exactly where to puncture at the exact angle through the

00:35:10.920 wrists into the hands, and it would foist his body weight of around 170 to 180 pounds.

00:35:17.660 And they crushed his wrist when they did that, and they nailed him to the cross.

00:35:22.420 Keep in mind, his shoulders are already separated.

00:35:25.360 The nails go through the wrists.

00:35:27.480 It's the same Greek word for you scripture scholars out there, hands and wrists in the

00:35:31.740 Greek Bible.

00:35:32.280 And we see the nails are nine inches long.

00:35:35.040 Now, what's fascinating is crucifixion nails become something like a rabbit's foot then

00:35:39.260 in Judaism of the late Second Temple period.

00:35:42.700 We actually have a Roman crucifixion victim under the reign of Pontius Pilate, who is crucified,

00:35:50.160 and he's given proper burial.

00:35:52.500 Notice I said the word proper, not honorable.

00:35:54.840 So he's a crucified victim, the worst way to die ever in the ancient world.

00:35:58.860 And yet he's still allowed to be buried.

00:36:00.760 And you can look this up.

00:36:02.680 It's the heel bone of Yehohanan, because his heel bone still has the crucifixion nail in

00:36:08.820 it.

00:36:09.400 He had to be buried before nightfall.

00:36:11.400 And this is again in the 20s AD under the reign of Pontius Pilate.

00:36:15.520 How do we know his name?

00:36:16.420 Because of second burial.

00:36:18.020 A year after a Jewish man died, his bones would be collected.

00:36:22.140 And then osalagium, a process of second burial, would take place.

00:36:25.580 So that's like when you go to the land of Israel, where I know you've been, and thank you for

00:36:28.780 your support of Israel.

00:36:29.780 You see all the bone boxes?

00:36:31.220 Those are ossuaries.

00:36:32.700 Those ossuaries are where you would put the bones that were collected one year after the

00:36:37.800 date of death, usually by the eldest son.

00:36:39.920 And so we have this great artifact where we see crucifixion nails in a crucified victim,

00:36:44.940 because the skeptical scholars will claim that crucified victims were not given proper

00:36:50.100 burials.

00:36:50.680 So this isn't Jesus.

00:36:51.860 This is a hoax.

00:36:52.960 Well, wait, wait, wait.

00:36:54.880 But isn't that true to the fact, I mean, crucifixion was not only supposed to be horrifying for the

00:37:01.200 person.

00:37:01.580 And we always see the crosses as these big, tall things.

00:37:05.560 They were actually closer to the ground.

00:37:08.100 Correct.

00:37:08.380 Eye level.

00:37:08.980 Yeah.

00:37:09.240 So when you're walking into the city, you're like, I don't want to do that.

00:37:12.620 Yes.

00:37:12.980 Right?

00:37:14.520 And they were left there for a while for the dogs to eat.

00:37:18.920 Correct.

00:37:19.220 Correct?

00:37:19.820 In some cases, yes.

00:37:20.840 In some cases, but not all cases.

00:37:22.020 And again, remember, yeah, this is not a monolith.

00:37:24.520 The Romans were excellent politicians.

00:37:26.700 And what do we, again, everything I say is based on the evidence.

00:37:29.220 What do we know in non-wartime?

00:37:30.680 The only time that we have, we know that Philo, a Jewish historian in Alexandria, Josephus,

00:37:36.860 we know the biblical records tell us.

00:37:39.380 So there's six amazing sources right there that Jews were allowed to bury their dead properly,

00:37:45.120 even crucified victims.

00:37:46.480 The only time that we know of where Jews were not allowed to bury their dead was during the

00:37:51.060 revolt of 66 to 70 AD.

00:37:53.700 My dear friend and colleague at Christian Thinkers, Craig Evans, has done phenomenal, groundbreaking

00:37:57.700 work on this, that only in wartime were Jews not allowed to bury the dead and the dead of

00:38:04.180 their crucified victims.

00:38:05.340 Jesus dies in AD 33.

00:38:07.180 There's no war going on.

00:38:08.360 And the Jews were fine to give back the body.

00:38:10.960 They were politicians.

00:38:11.940 Yeah, go do that tradition.

00:38:13.800 We're still in power.

00:38:14.880 Right.

00:38:15.320 Right now, the average American is still finding it difficult to pay expenses every single

00:38:20.220 month.

00:38:20.740 In more cases, there is nothing less to cover any extras that you might have.

00:38:25.840 Most aren't getting a big raise.

00:38:27.860 And with expenses being up so high, it can be very hard to manage without grabbing for

00:38:31.480 credit cards.

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00:39:25.600 Um, so they, um, they have nails in his wrists through his hands.

00:39:32.380 Correct.

00:39:32.780 His shoulders have been dislocated.

00:39:35.760 They nail his feet to the cross.

00:39:38.140 One nail, both feet.

00:39:39.480 And the only way he can breathe is if he's pushing himself up, right?

00:39:45.920 Correct.

00:39:46.080 Because everything's collapsing on him and he has no strength in his arms to pull him,

00:39:51.620 pull himself up.

00:39:52.280 Right.

00:39:52.520 So the pain of pushing himself up must've been.

00:39:56.520 And can you imagine how could you, I wouldn't be able to speak.

00:40:00.280 I wouldn't be able to, you fight for every breath.

00:40:02.780 Yes.

00:40:03.040 I, as a pastor, I've been with people when they are fighting for every breath at the

00:40:07.100 end of their life.

00:40:07.700 And I think about Jesus and Jesus is able to utter certain words, even from the cross.

00:40:12.460 And what is he quoting?

00:40:13.460 He's quoting that messianic Psalm constantly.

00:40:15.680 Psalm 22.

00:40:16.280 He's just quoting it verbatim.

00:40:17.620 Jesus loved the Psalms.

00:40:18.840 He quotes them often.

00:40:20.340 He quotes from Psalm 110.

00:40:21.920 He quotes from Daniel 7, 13 and following.

00:40:24.860 And Mark 8, 31, Mark 9, 31, Mark 10, 33 and 34.

00:40:28.440 He constantly reminds his audience, even though they're confused, the son of man must die and

00:40:33.940 rise again three days later.

00:40:35.680 He must do it.

00:40:36.560 Luke's gospel, the great historian, Luke, the doctor who gives us his wonderful Luke

00:40:41.940 acts sequel in the scriptures.

00:40:44.200 He tells us that Jesus set his face like Flint to the cross.

00:40:48.000 So this was no accident.

00:40:49.300 This was no mess up.

00:40:50.780 Jesus intended to go to the cross for us.

00:40:54.440 Didn't want to.

00:40:55.200 Didn't want to.

00:40:55.880 Asked if he could, if he could ask the father, if it could be held back in any way, which again

00:41:00.160 shows us that he can empathize with us, even in our weaknesses.

00:41:03.580 Um, so he's buried, uh, no, wait, so he dies.

00:41:08.980 Yes.

00:41:09.320 He dies on the cross.

00:41:10.640 That is to scale a Roman Lance three and a half centimeters wide.

00:41:17.520 And remember they're coming around, uh, you know, the Jewish sensitivities, Sabbath and

00:41:22.480 Passover.

00:41:23.000 So this was a high holy day.

00:41:24.780 We got to make sure these dudes are dead.

00:41:26.520 So they break the, they break the bones of the criminals onto the right and the left of

00:41:30.640 Jesus of Nazareth, but they come and Jesus is already dead.

00:41:34.460 And just to make sure they penetrate.

00:41:36.500 And again, these guys knew what they were doing.

00:41:38.120 They use this Lance and they penetrate right between the fifth and sixth rib, three and a

00:41:44.160 half inches into the heart.

00:41:45.420 And the scriptures tell us that blood and water come out.

00:41:48.040 And again, how would first they know this if they were making up forged documents?

00:41:52.260 But secondly, what do we see as we have already suggested on the shroud?

00:41:56.260 We see that three and a half centimeter wound in the side of the man of the shroud.

00:42:01.660 It's just above the patch in the, in the, in the left there.

00:42:05.680 Do you see it there, Glenn?

00:42:06.780 And you see the very dark blood.

00:42:09.260 That is the Lance wound post-mortem.

00:42:12.080 He was already dead.

00:42:17.280 And I would like to mention, if I may, Glenn, I want you to hold a temple tax coin.

00:42:22.180 This, at this moment, I think it's important to, for you to handle this.

00:42:25.780 This is extremely rare.

00:42:27.860 That's one shekel, 14 grams, Tyrian silver.

00:42:31.480 That's authentic.

00:42:32.960 That is the currency that you had to pay for the temple tax at the Jewish temple.

00:42:38.400 And so there's a miracle in the gospels where Jesus says to Peter, open that fish's mouth

00:42:43.380 and it's the temple tax is there in his mouth.

00:42:45.680 But even more so, Judas Iscariot has paid 30 of those to betray Jesus, the price of a slave.

00:42:52.740 That's authentic.

00:42:53.660 We know from the writing on it, it's from the twenties when Pilate is in power.

00:42:58.640 You can imagine what that must've felt like to Judas seeing this play out.

00:43:04.520 Yeah.

00:43:05.140 I have one of these next to my microphone.

00:43:07.460 Wow.

00:43:07.900 I've had it for 20 years.

00:43:09.520 I went over to Jerusalem and I, I bought one just like this because I wanted something that

00:43:14.280 Judas could have held.

00:43:16.220 Yes.

00:43:16.760 And it reminds me, don't sell out.

00:43:19.240 That's right.

00:43:19.720 Don't ever, ever, ever sell out.

00:43:21.580 And you don't.

00:43:22.300 You're amazing, Glenn.

00:43:23.060 Well, it's a, it's a, a remarkable reminder.

00:43:28.900 I kind of feel bad for Judas, you know, because it had to happen.

00:43:34.340 Christ knew it was going to happen.

00:43:36.160 It had to happen.

00:43:37.200 Absolutely.

00:43:37.960 And, uh, you know, if you just look at him as a bad guy, but he knew as soon as he did

00:43:46.240 it, I mean, he ends up killing himself.

00:43:48.520 That's right.

00:43:49.000 He knew.

00:43:49.400 That's right.

00:43:50.320 And except for God's grace, there go every one of us.

00:43:53.040 Yeah.

00:43:54.280 Yeah.

00:43:54.820 It would have been an interesting meeting of Christ on that day.

00:43:59.820 Exactly.

00:44:00.260 Exactly.

00:44:01.280 So that's the Tyrian silver coin.

00:44:04.200 And Jesus then is asked, according to the Mishnah, which is a, is a second century AD

00:44:10.360 Jewish source of how to live out the Jewish law, Talmud, it's late second temple Judaism.

00:44:16.000 If the Sanhedrin condemned a Roman criminal or excuse me, a criminal to death, even under

00:44:20.980 Roman law, um, it was on the Sanhedrin to bury the crucified criminal.

00:44:26.080 What do we see in the juridical procedure in the gospels?

00:44:29.140 We see that Nicodemus and Joseph of Arimathea, two members of the Sanhedrin take control of

00:44:34.540 burying Jesus body.

00:44:35.900 That is consistent with what the Mishnah says.

00:44:39.140 And so they don't have much time and they take Jesus to a new tomb and a quarry, a rock

00:44:45.080 hewn tomb.

00:44:45.880 So this is not a tomb that has been used, um, before by a family.

00:44:50.120 It's a brand new tomb.

00:44:51.300 We have this 3d printed model right here.

00:44:54.140 This is fascinating.

00:44:55.560 Um, this is so fun too.

00:44:57.100 So, uh, Glenn, I've had the opportunity to film at all the resurrection sites of Jesus

00:45:00.960 and Lazarus and Jerusalem.

00:45:02.280 I've been in more tombs than probably anyone you've ever interviewed.

00:45:05.460 Most Jewish tombs look like our hand.

00:45:07.480 You walk into the tomb and there is, you usually walk down the steps.

00:45:11.360 It's usually just a meter square because not a lot of rich people got buried in the land

00:45:15.040 of Israel.

00:45:15.640 And so when you see this large circular stone, circular stone, that's, that's a, that's a

00:45:21.800 crucial key.

00:45:22.440 This is a rich person's tomb.

00:45:23.980 They've got a big stone because 80% of the tombs that we've discovered in the land of Israel

00:45:28.780 are just a meter square.

00:45:29.880 They're small.

00:45:30.360 But when you would get in inside your palm of your hand, that's where you would pray.

00:45:34.840 You would mourn the dead.

00:45:36.160 And then the finger slots are niches for the bodies to be buried.

00:45:39.460 So the Jewish family burial would have, there's only one niche in this, right?

00:45:43.460 There would have been more originally.

00:45:45.100 Joseph would have had more.

00:45:46.160 I have stood and I am convinced based on the archeology, based on all of the evidence.

00:45:51.960 And I write about this in my book, Body of Proof at Length, that the edicule inside of

00:45:56.940 the Church of the Holy Sepulcher is in fact the place where Jesus was buried.

00:46:01.760 My sticking point on this is the mother of Constantine who is like, yes, that is the place.

00:46:10.240 She picked out the church too at Bethlehem, the Church of the Activity.

00:46:14.540 So, you know, what were her credentials?

00:46:18.800 Absolutely.

00:46:19.360 So, but you've, I've been to both places.

00:46:21.580 I've been to the garden tomb and to the place that she says.

00:46:26.540 Um, and I, I, I mean, I have no idea, right?

00:46:33.280 Tell me the evidence that that is the tomb.

00:46:36.460 This is really fascinating.

00:46:37.700 I want you to hold another coin.

00:46:39.340 Okay.

00:46:39.780 Cause this will answer your question.

00:46:41.320 Okay.

00:46:42.940 Coins were like the social media of the first and second century.

00:46:46.000 They would tell you who was in power, what the name of the city is and what, what culture,

00:46:50.840 what cultural sensitivities you needed to be aware of.

00:46:53.340 After three Jewish revolts in the first and early second century, Hadrian has had enough

00:46:59.180 of the Jews and he demolishes Israel and in particular Jerusalem after the third revolt,

00:47:06.060 132 to 135 AD, the Bar Kokhba, the son of the star revolt.

00:47:10.380 This is 60 years after the temple's gone.

00:47:12.100 Exactly.

00:47:13.080 And Hadrian sees Christianity is just a Jewish sect.

00:47:17.000 He wants them all dead.

00:47:18.480 He renames the land of Israel Palestine.

00:47:21.940 It is the reason I never use the word Palestine when referring to the holy land, the Jewish

00:47:28.560 people, their land.

00:47:30.420 Hadrian originates the term Palestine and he does so very pejoratively.

00:47:35.220 I was actually flying in an airline.

00:47:36.620 This is anecdotal recently.

00:47:38.060 I, I fly with American airlines, but I was on one of their one world partners.

00:47:41.480 I'm flying over the land of Israel.

00:47:42.920 It doesn't say any Israel anywhere on the flight map.

00:47:46.040 It says Palestinian territories as a echo back to Hadrian.

00:47:51.260 So Hadrian demolishes Israel.

00:47:54.140 He renames Jerusalem, Aliyah, capitalina.

00:47:56.820 And that bronze coin that you hold in your hand from the second century said it's stamped

00:48:01.800 with Hadrian, Aliyah, capitalina.

00:48:04.160 This is the new name for the city of Jerusalem.

00:48:07.600 When Hadrian demolishes and raises Jerusalem in the second century, he hears about this

00:48:13.560 venerated site of this dying and rising God and he absolutely demolishes it.

00:48:20.120 He puts in a temple to the God Venus.

00:48:23.200 And then whereas Jesus is crucified, another venerated object to Jupiter and Hadrian unwittingly

00:48:31.540 becomes the protector of this sacred Christian site of Jesus's death by Roman crucifixion

00:48:37.500 and his resurrection.

00:48:39.460 Because people didn't move around a lot, Glenn.

00:48:41.380 If you would have lived in the first and second century, you would have said, oh, you would

00:48:45.140 have taken your kids there and said, hey, this is where he died.

00:48:47.580 Right.

00:48:47.760 You know, ignore the Venus thing.

00:48:49.140 Right.

00:48:49.400 It's like our liberals today who demolish our history.

00:48:52.260 Right.

00:48:52.500 You know, this is where it happened.

00:48:54.480 This is where Gettysburg happened.

00:48:56.320 You know, we can call it whatever we want now, but this is where Jesus died.

00:48:59.560 This is where he was raised from the dead.

00:49:01.500 And so that's 200 years before Helena.

00:49:04.220 The archaeology is that good.

00:49:06.020 And then when you see in 2017, the tomb is open for a remodeling, really a refurbishment

00:49:11.460 is what we should call it because it's falling apart.

00:49:13.760 And the limestone is all first century.

00:49:16.540 And so it's a rock quarry.

00:49:17.580 And I have filmed in the very eticule.

00:49:19.600 And I know that everything seems wrong about the Church of the Holy Sepulchre.

00:49:23.200 It seems like it's outside the city.

00:49:24.640 Well, Agrippa expanded the city walls in 44.

00:49:27.680 When's Jesus crucified?

00:49:29.160 33.

00:49:30.320 So you're following with me.

00:49:31.580 The archaeology.

00:49:32.460 And I love a word about the Garden Tomb.

00:49:34.240 I love it.

00:49:35.080 Anytime I lead tours, it's peaceful.

00:49:37.380 We take communion there.

00:49:39.560 It's fabulous.

00:49:40.380 But even the director of the Garden Tomb knows that that's not the historical site.

00:49:46.300 Golgotha.

00:49:47.160 Place of the Skull.

00:49:47.900 Yes.

00:49:48.340 That's another thing about the Garden Tomb.

00:49:50.620 It looks like a skull right there above the bus stop.

00:49:55.540 It does.

00:49:55.840 It does.

00:49:56.260 Yeah.

00:49:56.780 Well done.

00:49:57.420 But that's not.

00:49:58.400 That's not.

00:49:59.020 That's not where he was.

00:49:59.920 Yeah.

00:50:00.360 It's too far away.

00:50:01.680 It's too early.

00:50:02.880 The tomb, specifically, I should mention, the tomb is about 700 years earlier than the

00:50:08.340 time of Jesus.

00:50:09.220 And so it's much too old to be Jesus' tomb.

00:50:11.780 We know that to be true, based, again, on the archaeology.

00:50:17.040 I always, I think science and God go hand in hand.

00:50:21.080 God's got to be the greatest scientist and mathematician of all time.

00:50:24.260 Yes.

00:50:24.480 I mean, everything is math.

00:50:26.780 Everything is science, you know?

00:50:28.640 And I don't believe that he works outside of that.

00:50:35.260 He can't, or the whole thing would collapse.

00:50:37.440 You know what I mean?

00:50:37.900 He created the rules.

00:50:39.400 He plays within the rules.

00:50:41.320 If he's resurrecting and there is energy that's coming in like that, you would think that there

00:50:49.620 would be the flash.

00:50:51.360 It would leave evidence.

00:50:52.800 So this isn't a miracle as much as it is just a marker of God doing something scientifically.

00:51:01.040 That's right.

00:51:01.420 Exactly.

00:51:02.340 So this isn't, this is not something that God did so we'd have faith.

00:51:10.280 This is just one piece of evidence that, yeah, it happened.

00:51:14.520 That's right.

00:51:14.900 But it's not, it's, do you see this as a faith thing or just, just evidence that it happened?

00:51:23.760 That's such a great question.

00:51:25.280 I see this as a living gospel.

00:51:27.740 Faith is always defined by its object.

00:51:30.240 We don't have faith in faith.

00:51:31.700 We have faith based on evidence.

00:51:33.440 And so I see it as a, yet another evidential layer of the greatest event of human history,

00:51:38.840 Jesus' death and resurrection on our behalf on the cross.

00:51:41.180 So I see it as just another layer of very important evidence.

00:51:44.960 It's a historic, it's the only historical evidence we have of the resurrection outside

00:51:50.260 of the New Testament scriptures.

00:51:51.320 I've been to several places that have the cross.

00:51:53.080 Yeah.

00:51:54.720 We could build a forest of all those relics.

00:51:57.780 So truly it's the only, and it doesn't, this is as close as your audience, and I'm so

00:52:01.940 thankful to you doing this in your studio.

00:52:04.060 This is as close as any of us will ever get to the shroud today.

00:52:06.960 I have, I've wanted to go to Turin my whole life.

00:52:09.640 Even this year in the Jubilee, we're not sure if it's even going to be on display.

00:52:13.340 Some youth locally, and it's all up to the Archbishop of Turin.

00:52:16.660 So we need to, I mean, they have the technology to keep it safe.

00:52:20.500 Was this, was this ever more vibrant than it is now?

00:52:24.480 We, we, we only can speculate.

00:52:26.500 We don't know that it was ever more vibrant, but we do know that it is degrading based on

00:52:31.760 that waxes.

00:52:33.240 We know that the fibers itself are degrading.

00:52:35.620 We don't know about the image.

00:52:36.680 The image has always been faint that, you know, and again, Secando Pia didn't even see

00:52:41.540 this till 1898.

00:52:42.960 1898 is the point at which Secando Pia, a lawyer, takes a photograph of the shroud and in the

00:52:49.780 negative, he sees it and says, oh my God.

00:52:52.100 And that kicks off modern science.

00:52:53.620 But it was in the, it was in the church.

00:52:56.420 It was in the Turin church correctly in 1898.

00:52:58.260 But it was in a box.

00:52:59.380 It was on display and he had to build a scaffolding to take.

00:53:04.280 And it was one of the first photographs ever taken with a flash, with electricity.

00:53:08.020 The church had no electricity, by the way.

00:53:09.980 And so he takes it with a flash photography.

00:53:12.580 The exposure takes hours, literally, you know, for our, for the benefit of anyone under the

00:53:17.120 age of 30, you know, our phones do not always take pictures.

00:53:19.840 Right.

00:53:20.180 Yeah.

00:53:20.520 Yeah.

00:53:20.980 I mean, he still had a phone, don't get me wrong, but it didn't have a camera with it.

00:53:24.180 It didn't take pictures.

00:53:25.220 You had to use cameras.

00:53:26.280 Right.

00:53:26.500 You had to go in the dark room.

00:53:28.120 Right.

00:53:28.240 He goes, and that kicks off.

00:53:29.420 So for 125 years now, we've enjoyed modern scientific study of the shroud and all of it

00:53:35.640 smacks of authenticity, not forgery.

00:53:39.180 Glenn, if I'm putting up on your table right now, all the evidence for and all the evidence

00:53:43.820 against the shroud of Turin scientifically, there's one shred of evidence against it.

00:53:48.440 The erroneous 1988 carbon dating and then a absolute deluge of evidence by scientists, not

00:53:57.240 theologians, not pastors, hoping that it's hoping that it is.

00:54:00.800 Most pastors and theologians, they discredit this.

00:54:04.400 And I say to evangelicals who are watching, don't be conditioned as I was to think, oh,

00:54:09.400 this is some Catholic relic.

00:54:11.580 Read it, study it, read from people like me and Glenn and others who actually look at the

00:54:15.980 science, we look at the reports, we learn from everyone, but we don't let anyone think

00:54:19.900 for us.

00:54:20.660 I'm a Christian thinker.

00:54:22.000 And so I follow the evidence where it leads.

00:54:24.180 And, you know, too bad I was conditioned in England to not believe in it either.

00:54:28.680 I've now become convinced.

00:54:29.720 It's a mistake to think that just because Catholics, I mean, I grew up Catholic.

00:54:34.560 I have nothing against Catholics at all.

00:54:36.240 I love them.

00:54:37.260 But you're conditioned to think, oh, it's Catholic.

00:54:41.800 So the one thing, I was actually given permission to go into the secret archives.

00:54:50.140 In the Vatican Library?

00:54:51.100 In the Vatican Library.

00:54:52.040 So I went in with the chief theologian and the head of the archives.

00:54:58.640 I was in there for like three hours.

00:55:01.540 Wow.

00:55:01.760 It is.

00:55:02.620 I mean, I don't know how I got the invite.

00:55:04.740 I honestly don't.

00:55:07.140 The theologian who is the one who consults with the Pope and says, okay, theologically,

00:55:12.880 he was with me in the first room we were in.

00:55:16.120 I said, what is this room?

00:55:17.160 And he said, I don't know.

00:55:18.560 I've never been allowed past that door.

00:55:22.040 But the things that I saw, the things that they have, you know, the Vatican Museum is

00:55:29.060 just the surface of what they have.

00:55:31.980 I'm walking in a hallway and the head of the Vatican archives says, oh, we passed something,

00:55:38.540 you know, passed this big box.

00:55:40.140 And he's like, oh, wait, turns around, goes back and says, you'll love this, opens the doors.

00:55:45.080 And it is the parchment with all of the wax seals saying that King Henry VIII should be,

00:55:53.580 you know, they should be pardoned in, you know, his marriage annulled.

00:55:57.240 Wow.

00:55:57.540 And that was just in a hallway that they were like, ah.

00:55:59.480 Just because they have, just because they have it doesn't make it Catholic.

00:56:08.280 Right.

00:56:08.660 You know what I mean?

00:56:09.360 And, but you've just explained one of the big pitfalls that many, many Christians who

00:56:14.180 hear about the Shroud of Turin, they don't seem to care.

00:56:17.400 They think, oh, that's a relic.

00:56:18.580 That's not science.

00:56:19.440 That's not real.

00:56:20.180 There's no evidence.

00:56:20.980 And when I have yet to be with someone and give all the evidence to where it doesn't

00:56:25.280 immediately invite them into the mystery of the Shroud, because when you get beyond the

00:56:28.640 mystery, you hear the message of the Shroud, which is God and his love for us in the most

00:56:33.360 radical ways.

00:56:36.300 You, I mean, you gave me this statue of the crucified man.

00:56:43.220 And you now, AI, you've done it and take that face and make it real.

00:56:50.160 Right.

00:56:50.980 Um, I, I'm, I'm, you know, we're in this place now where things are going to get really

00:56:58.000 weird.

00:56:58.560 Yeah.

00:56:59.020 Um, and now you can do that, but then you could put all of the words of Christ into a

00:57:04.220 chat, uh, and you can make that man speak to you, uh, which would be freaky.

00:57:12.280 Um, what are your thoughts on, on any of that?

00:57:18.580 Yeah.

00:57:18.920 Have you thought of that at all?

00:57:19.900 Have where we get verified information from becomes crucial.

00:57:23.140 I wrote an op-ed a few years ago when AI was just coming on the scene and it was the title

00:57:28.480 of it was my daughter prayed to Alexis because it was just a, it was just a slip.

00:57:32.860 You know, we have Alexis in our house and instead of saying, dear Jesus, she said, dear Alexis.

00:57:36.920 Yeah.

00:57:38.240 But I remember Googling white American couple at the time in this Fox news op-ed and what

00:57:44.500 the, what the learning machine sent back to me was everything but a white American couple.

00:57:49.500 And this is what Google told me to look at.

00:57:51.080 And so ever since then I've been saying to my students, to those where I speak, where I publish,

00:57:56.320 we have to be so careful where we get verified information.

00:57:59.660 And the great thing why I'm not too concerned about it is we have an embarrassment of riches

00:58:03.740 of the earliest words of Christ as codified in the New Testament scriptures.

00:58:08.980 Right.

00:58:09.320 You can't change that.

00:58:10.580 Right.

00:58:10.820 And what I love about evidence is-

00:58:12.720 Well, you can if everything is digitized.

00:58:14.620 That's right.

00:58:15.120 But again, when we come back to these sources, this is where it's on us to be educated.

00:58:19.580 And this is why I'm a blaze subscriber, Glenn.

00:58:21.820 This is why where I get information is paramount for me and my wife and our five children.

00:58:27.240 I want to not be conditioned by society.

00:58:30.180 I want to be able to understand what I believe and why I believe it based on evidence.

00:58:34.700 Because the same follow the science crowd has tried to suppress this science.

00:58:38.440 Yeah.

00:58:38.720 Which is ironic.

00:58:40.000 Yeah.

00:58:40.940 It is interesting.

00:58:42.000 You know, the, the big bang.

00:58:43.560 Yes.

00:58:43.860 That was originally a Christian.

00:58:45.780 Yes.

00:58:46.380 Idea.

00:58:47.080 Yes.

00:58:47.540 Christians were like, okay, well, I don't know exactly how he creates, but the big bang.

00:58:52.680 It started.

00:58:53.140 And the scientists originally were against that because they said, yeah, but what lit the match?

00:58:58.180 Yeah.

00:58:58.380 And they were, they, they thought the universe had always been in existence.

00:59:01.420 Correct.

00:59:01.760 And your show with Hugh Ross was excellent.

00:59:03.520 Oh, he's fantastic.

00:59:04.380 He's phenomenal.

00:59:04.980 Thank you.

00:59:05.220 Yeah.

00:59:06.020 So where does this go now?

00:59:08.700 So shroud of turn research has never been taken more seriously by scholars.

00:59:12.980 And my prayer is that thanks to voices like yours joining in, we can make this where the

00:59:19.760 world will have access to this information.

00:59:21.960 Because when I look deeply at the evidence of the shroud, I see God's plan for me.

00:59:26.820 I see that it really matters.

00:59:28.420 And what I want to talk about, Glenn, is let's say it's real.

00:59:31.320 What are the implications?

00:59:33.800 What are they?

00:59:34.520 What are the implications that we have the exact moment of Jesus's resurrection caught in the

00:59:42.320 image of the man of the shroud?

00:59:44.000 It makes the hair on the back of my neck stand up because the gospels don't tell us what happened

00:59:49.080 at the moment of resurrection.

00:59:50.780 Right.

00:59:51.160 All the disciples are running scared.

00:59:52.940 Only John and the women who are mentioned in Luke eight stay behind to actually be with

00:59:57.740 Jesus.

00:59:58.080 Um, they know something weird is happening at the tomb because normally soldiers were not

01:00:02.460 outside the tomb stationed there.

01:00:04.500 And yet we don't know what happens.

01:00:06.520 We know that there are second and third century writings that talk about what happened at the

01:00:10.180 tomb.

01:00:10.560 Those are like Christian comics.

01:00:12.240 But when we see if this is indeed, and I believe it is the shroud of Jesus unequivocally

01:00:18.680 based on the evidence, this tells me that this is God's answer to suffering.

01:00:23.180 This tells me I have hope that Greek word in the new Testament scriptures, LPS used a hundred

01:00:30.400 times.

01:00:30.880 We have a hope that never dies.

01:00:32.140 Peter says, I have a living hope based not because I feel like being hopeful today because

01:00:36.120 man, I didn't really feel like doing anything today.

01:00:38.160 I have a living hope because Jesus historically raised from the dead.

01:00:42.180 So when I see it, I see hope and I see God's answer to injustice and the suffering in our

01:00:46.280 world.

01:00:48.720 There's something happening in the world.

01:00:51.180 Correct.

01:00:51.460 Right now.

01:00:51.880 I mean, I think we're seeing evil like we haven't seen in a very long time.

01:00:57.200 And I honestly, I think we are going to see godlessness and the birth of a new God through

01:01:03.600 AI.

01:01:04.180 Right.

01:01:05.080 Well said.

01:01:06.100 And it's going to control everything.

01:01:12.060 And you can easily see how the book of Revelation, its prophecies are possibly just over the horizon.

01:01:23.980 Absolutely.

01:01:24.340 Things that I remember reading when I was young going, that'll never happen.

01:01:29.580 And here it is.

01:01:30.540 Right.

01:01:30.700 And here it is.

01:01:32.400 But as darkness grows, shadows can only grow darker if the light is stronger.

01:01:39.140 That's right.

01:01:39.500 So there is something else that God is doing.

01:01:43.020 And I think we are seeing that.

01:01:48.200 I think that there are things happening all over the world.

01:01:51.400 I mean, the stuff that's happening in Jerusalem now where they've just found the temple.

01:01:55.600 Yes.

01:01:55.940 Walk.

01:01:56.500 The road.

01:01:57.060 Yes.

01:01:57.300 And the things that I believe they're on the road of discovering are astonishing.

01:02:09.380 Right.

01:02:10.040 Astonishing.

01:02:12.780 And will, for a lot of people who need that kind of stuff, it's going to be a choice.

01:02:21.060 Now, now do you believe?

01:02:23.600 Now do you believe?

01:02:24.540 When is enough?

01:02:25.040 When, what is, yeah.

01:02:26.080 And there will be those who will always reject it.

01:02:29.440 But are you seeing the same thing?

01:02:31.620 Are you feeling the same thing?

01:02:32.800 That there is a, there is a new, and I think different and deeper kind of spiritual awakening

01:02:40.620 than maybe man has had.

01:02:42.760 Absolutely.

01:02:43.580 I wrote a book called Unimaginable because without Christianity, without God, we destroy

01:02:48.200 ourselves.

01:02:48.860 It becomes law of the jungle.

01:02:50.360 And I think that we have so cannibalized ourselves through the godlessness that we see in

01:02:56.040 the world, people are starting to seek God again.

01:02:58.680 And the scriptures promise in Romans chapter one, that when you seek after God, he will

01:03:02.320 reveal himself to you.

01:03:03.820 I have to share one thing with you about light.

01:03:06.020 You made me just remember it.

01:03:07.920 In the photographic negative of Jesus, at the moment of resurrection, guess what color

01:03:12.900 Jesus' hair is?

01:03:13.900 Jesus' hair is?

01:03:16.540 In this one?

01:03:17.760 Yes.

01:03:18.020 When that is now, and it's negative, but in the positive, his hair is white.

01:03:23.240 What does the book of Revelation say about Jesus when he returns?

01:03:28.540 His hair is white like wool.

01:03:31.000 So we're seeing Jesus at the moment of resurrection.

01:03:35.260 Remember when he transfigures himself in Mark nine, the disciples don't want to leave.

01:03:39.780 In fact, his body was likely still glistening after the fact.

01:03:43.980 They don't want to leave that moment.

01:03:45.320 There was something beautiful about seeing Jesus.

01:03:47.240 Remember the revelation explains that someday there'll be no need of the sun because light

01:03:51.920 will emanate from Christ.

01:03:53.200 And so I think that's consistent with the 34,000 trillion watts that it took in one 40th

01:04:01.580 of a billionth of a second, electromagnetic light to create this energy that created this

01:04:08.840 impression.

01:04:09.680 But I thought you might like that.

01:04:10.680 That's a new finding that his white, his hair is white, like wool, just like in Revelation.

01:04:14.880 How do we know that?

01:04:15.460 Based on the, when you put the negative, when you look at the negative, you're seeing the

01:04:19.020 man in the positive and his hair is white.

01:04:21.900 That's right.

01:04:22.800 Yes.

01:04:23.200 So when you look at the light shades, that's what you, you made me think of it when you

01:04:26.300 said, Oh my gosh, you're right.

01:04:29.460 And I want to give credit to one of our students for that.

01:04:32.820 That's remarkable.

01:04:36.280 Well, when you take this on the road, I would love to help you.

01:04:39.920 I think this is something getting that.

01:04:42.460 I know this is a copy of it, but it is an exact copy.

01:04:45.980 It's the closest we'll ever get to it.

01:04:47.960 Yeah.

01:04:47.980 And as somebody who's always wanted to see it.

01:04:51.620 And I mean, I was hoping that maybe my wife and children would go with me to Turin this

01:04:57.940 year, but I feel like this is, I mean, I'll never get this close.

01:05:03.080 Yeah.

01:05:03.360 You'll never get this close to it.

01:05:05.080 And it is remarkable to see it.

01:05:07.900 Thank you so much.

01:05:08.920 Thank you, Glenn.

01:05:09.580 You bet.

01:05:09.860 Just a reminder, I'd love you to rate and subscribe to the podcast and pass this on to a friend

01:05:21.360 so it can be discovered by other people.

01:05:23.000 Hey, Richard.

01:05:40.340 Great to speak to you.

01:05:48.400 Ever wish your office came with a quiet button?

01:05:50.900 That's what it feels like to step inside a soundproof office booth, like putting on noise

01:05:56.340 canceling headphones, except you can still take a call, run a meeting or focus without

01:06:01.480 distraction.

01:06:02.840 Soundproof, private, ready when you are.

01:06:05.980 Search Bureau office booths or head to withbureau.com.

The Glenn Beck Program - February 01, 2025

Ep 243 ｜ NEW EVIDENCE： Shroud of Turin Shows Exact Moment of Resurrection？! ｜ The Glenn Beck Podcast

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