The Glenn Beck Program - Ep 263 ｜ How Obama Weaponized His Deep State Against Hero Vets ｜ Gina Keating

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00:00:16.180 And now, a Blaze Media podcast.

00:00:19.740 Hello, America.

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00:01:03.660 Now let's get to work.

00:01:06.640 Over the past few months, classified document releases have shown us

00:01:10.520 just how frightening the government can be.

00:01:13.660 They can go after anybody, for seemingly any reason,

00:01:17.540 and there's little to anything that you can do to stop them.

00:01:20.800 Or at least that's how it might seem.

00:01:23.820 But as my guest today proves, the government is not invincible.

00:01:28.400 I am so excited to talk to Gina.

00:01:30.700 She is a lifelong liberal.

00:01:33.160 She's an investigative journalist who discovered a very dark secret

00:01:36.880 about an administration she trusted.

00:01:39.280 But unlike many in the media, she actually questioned

00:01:43.640 and then got all kinds of pushback, and she started wondering,

00:01:48.260 wait a minute, what's happening here?

00:01:50.540 She decided she was going to do everything she could

00:01:53.020 to uncover the real truth, no matter what it meant.

00:01:56.740 And she ended up saving the lives of four American heroes.

00:02:01.320 You're going to love this conversation.

00:02:03.300 Please welcome Gina Keating.

00:02:06.860 Trust and safety is becoming a key driver of customer experience,

00:02:11.520 influencing how users engage, how safe they feel,

00:02:14.840 and ultimately how likely they are to return.

00:02:17.860 Because I don't know about you,

00:02:19.320 but if I've had too many bad experiences on a platform,

00:02:22.620 I'm definitely not rushing back for more.

00:02:24.920 This is the intersection we're here to explore today.

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00:02:30.200 redefined CX for brands like TikTok, Trustpilot, and more.

00:02:34.180 A conversation with InTouchCX.

00:02:49.520 Hi, Gina.

00:02:50.840 Thank you for coming on the podcast.

00:02:53.520 Thank you for having me.

00:02:54.920 You know, I said right before we went on,

00:02:57.060 I said thank you for writing this book,

00:02:58.640 and you started to say, you know, my pleasure,

00:03:01.640 but then you stopped yourself.

00:03:03.620 And you said, well, not really my pleasure.

00:03:06.480 Because this is a really hard subject,

00:03:08.560 but I'm guessing it is your honor to do it.

00:03:13.260 We live at such interesting times right now

00:03:16.380 where nobody's willing to tell the truth,

00:03:19.400 look into the truth, even challenge themselves on the truth.

00:03:22.440 And to be able to do something as important

00:03:25.500 as what you did in this book,

00:03:27.940 what an honor for you to be,

00:03:31.200 and for them and for all of us to witness it.

00:03:33.840 So thank you.

00:03:34.560 Yeah, that's exactly how I feel about it.

00:03:37.060 It was my honor.

00:03:38.380 And I always tell them that whenever they thank me for anything.

00:03:41.460 Yeah.

00:03:42.380 This story changed me in a lot of ways,

00:03:45.940 and I kind of go into that in the book.

00:03:48.520 Yeah.

00:03:48.740 But, you know, I've been a journalist for 40 years,

00:03:51.840 so you lose a little bit of the conviction

00:03:57.780 that you went into it with.

00:04:00.200 And it takes a story like this to remind you what your job is.

00:04:05.240 I really want to go there,

00:04:07.520 but let me start with,

00:04:09.060 for anybody who doesn't know the story,

00:04:11.480 what's the story of Raven 23?

00:04:13.180 The story is that these four guys

00:04:18.640 who were from a Blackwater personal protection detail,

00:04:23.160 well, actually, they were a TST team,

00:04:24.680 tactical support team,

00:04:26.260 that were supporting a U.S. diplomat,

00:04:29.540 or another team that was rescuing a U.S. diplomat

00:04:32.860 from a bombing in Baghdad,

00:04:35.980 were fired upon in Nisir Square,

00:04:39.300 which is the name of the traffic circle,

00:04:41.220 that they were hoping that this other team would come through.

00:04:45.120 They got into a firefight.

00:04:47.580 Some gunmen were killed.

00:04:49.340 A couple of civilians were killed.

00:04:51.540 And they returned to the Green Zone,

00:04:53.400 not thinking anything about this.

00:04:55.720 But because of various factors,

00:04:58.380 including the timing of this,

00:05:00.480 but also the fact that it got on CNN

00:05:05.060 and, you know, U.S. cable news quite quickly

00:05:09.140 and was played repeatedly,

00:05:11.340 they were accused of perpetrating a massacre,

00:05:15.440 and they were put on trial three times in the United States

00:05:19.300 and were put in prison,

00:05:21.460 essentially, for the rest of their lives

00:05:23.580 over this incident.

00:05:25.800 And I remember this at the time

00:05:27.340 because everybody was eager to say,

00:05:29.060 oh, Blackwater is so evil.

00:05:30.420 We weren't so willing to say

00:05:34.040 the American soldier was evil,

00:05:36.020 but we were willing to throw Blackwater under the bus.

00:05:39.500 I don't know if Blackwater has ever recovered

00:05:41.080 from any of that.

00:05:43.300 But what was your view of Blackwater at the time?

00:05:48.720 Oh, I thought the same thing as everybody else.

00:05:51.000 I was against the war.

00:05:52.820 I didn't think that we needed to have mercenaries

00:05:55.840 fighting it for us.

00:05:56.920 If Congress could not raise an army of volunteers,

00:06:00.660 I didn't think we needed to be in there.

00:06:02.660 Right, right.

00:06:03.400 And has any of that changed

00:06:05.480 in the pursuit of this story?

00:06:08.540 I still think that it was a mistake to go in there.

00:06:11.340 I think that we went in for the wrong reasons,

00:06:13.820 and, you know, the outcome, I think, supports that view.

00:06:19.320 Yeah, I think so, too.

00:06:20.340 But here's the deal.

00:06:21.460 You know, at the time, we told these kids,

00:06:24.600 and they were kids, that these people

00:06:27.320 were threatening our way of life,

00:06:29.460 and we needed to do something about it.

00:06:31.900 And every single one of the guys

00:06:33.480 that I represented in this book

00:06:35.720 were absolute believers in that.

00:06:38.720 They did exactly what they were supposed to do.

00:06:41.140 They went there with exactly the right attitudes,

00:06:43.820 and they were rewarded in a very bad way.

00:06:47.640 So the first time this happened,

00:06:49.520 didn't this happen under George W. Bush?

00:06:51.140 Yes, the incident happened under Bush,

00:06:54.280 but this, you know,

00:06:56.140 dragged out for three presidential administrations.

00:06:59.180 So were they arrested under Bush?

00:07:03.480 They, uh...

00:07:04.960 Or just questioned under Bush?

00:07:06.880 They were questioned,

00:07:08.340 and then they were,

00:07:09.600 they actually surrendered

00:07:10.940 at the Salt Lake City Federal Courthouse,

00:07:13.820 and I believe that was in 2008 or 2009.

00:07:17.060 Okay, so under...

00:07:18.180 But then the case was dismissed

00:07:20.460 shortly after Obama came in.

00:07:23.500 So then why...

00:07:24.620 And then reinstated.

00:07:25.980 Yeah, so why, like,

00:07:27.100 because it was like two years later,

00:07:28.480 all of a sudden,

00:07:29.280 they think everything is fine,

00:07:30.680 and then two years later,

00:07:32.100 they bring it up in court again,

00:07:34.880 and they're in court.

00:07:37.240 What happened?

00:07:37.780 Right, exactly.

00:07:39.300 Well, the case was thrown out

00:07:41.780 by Judge Urbina,

00:07:42.860 who was a Clinton appointee,

00:07:46.700 for, you know,

00:07:48.000 the reasons that

00:07:48.860 there's no evidence

00:07:49.640 to support a massacre.

00:07:50.980 The prosecutors

00:07:51.660 were very vindictive about the case

00:07:56.180 and were basically violating

00:07:58.520 ethical and constitutional protections.

00:08:01.420 And so he threw it out.

00:08:03.420 But what we discovered

00:08:05.000 after doing some investigation

00:08:08.040 was that there were

00:08:10.100 foreign policy objectives

00:08:11.600 that were going to be served

00:08:13.120 by bringing them back to court.

00:08:17.660 What were the foreign policy objectives?

00:08:23.960 Basically, that they...

00:08:26.440 The Obama administration

00:08:27.780 was intent on making sure

00:08:31.140 that Nuri al-Maliki

00:08:32.100 was the Iraqi prime minister

00:08:34.820 because they felt

00:08:35.520 that they could work with him.

00:08:36.640 They didn't really know whether...

00:08:40.560 Because they had put him in power,

00:08:41.940 basically,

00:08:42.500 whether they could really work

00:08:44.520 with a democratically elected candidate

00:08:48.160 because people were, you know,

00:08:50.620 furious over in Iraq

00:08:51.880 about the state of affairs.

00:08:53.480 I mean, they had no infrastructure.

00:08:55.640 There was a civil war raging.

00:08:58.100 People wanted...

00:08:59.300 You know, the Iranians

00:09:00.180 had basically infiltrated

00:09:01.640 the Iraqi government

00:09:02.740 in many ways,

00:09:03.800 and they wanted Blackwater

00:09:05.200 and all the contractors out of their

00:09:06.620 so they could do

00:09:07.160 whatever they wanted.

00:09:08.140 Right.

00:09:08.840 So, as a...

00:09:11.260 What?

00:09:11.620 As a way to gain favor

00:09:12.960 with the public?

00:09:14.580 Yes.

00:09:15.060 Obama gave these guys up.

00:09:18.100 Well, essentially,

00:09:19.300 I mean, you know,

00:09:20.040 that...

00:09:20.460 I don't know what happened

00:09:21.320 in their meetings,

00:09:21.900 but we do have

00:09:22.680 some diplomatic cables

00:09:24.200 that are in the book

00:09:25.440 from the charge d'affaires,

00:09:29.840 Robert Ford,

00:09:30.440 to Hillary Clinton,

00:09:32.520 saying that

00:09:33.500 as soon as Judge Urbina

00:09:35.780 threw the case out,

00:09:37.880 there was a huge uproar

00:09:39.800 in Iraq,

00:09:40.940 in the media,

00:09:41.980 in the mosques,

00:09:43.560 in the government.

00:09:44.580 Everyone was speaking out

00:09:45.680 about the fact

00:09:46.300 that the Americans

00:09:47.720 could do whatever they wanted

00:09:49.440 in Iraq

00:09:50.060 and kill everybody

00:09:51.220 and have no consequences.

00:09:52.820 So, these guys literally

00:09:54.740 became the sacrificial lambs

00:09:58.440 for the rest of our

00:09:59.840 screw-ups in Iraq.

00:10:01.840 And so then,

00:10:03.680 at what point

00:10:04.640 were they convicted?

00:10:07.360 They were convicted

00:10:08.480 in 2014.

00:10:11.440 So, the very...

00:10:12.520 Three of them...

00:10:13.740 This is the third time now

00:10:15.280 that they're being tried.

00:10:16.740 Well...

00:10:17.480 Or the first time

00:10:18.140 they weren't tried.

00:10:19.240 First one was about...

00:10:20.500 Right.

00:10:20.720 Yeah.

00:10:21.240 Okay.

00:10:21.580 09 maybe?

00:10:22.620 Yeah.

00:10:23.200 And then this...

00:10:23.780 So, this is the second trial.

00:10:26.940 Correct.

00:10:27.440 So, they were supposed

00:10:28.180 to go on trial

00:10:28.980 in February of 09.

00:10:30.920 I think that's right.

00:10:31.980 Or February of 10.

00:10:33.000 Right.

00:10:33.320 And Judge Urbina

00:10:33.980 threw the case out

00:10:34.820 before that.

00:10:35.360 So, it had been worked up.

00:10:36.460 They went to a grand jury

00:10:37.460 and did all that.

00:10:39.280 But then Judge Urbina

00:10:40.540 threw it out

00:10:41.360 and they had about

00:10:43.020 maybe 18 months

00:10:45.240 and the government,

00:10:47.820 the DOJ started

00:10:49.220 trying to figure out

00:10:50.360 a way that they could

00:10:51.760 bring it back

00:10:52.720 with no evidence,

00:10:54.420 with evidence

00:10:55.460 that they had been shot at

00:10:56.860 and, you know,

00:10:59.140 witnesses from Nisser Square

00:11:01.340 who told a U.S. Army investigator

00:11:03.980 that, in fact,

00:11:05.100 there were gunmen

00:11:05.820 in the square.

00:11:06.700 So, the government

00:11:07.580 had a huge hill

00:11:09.660 to overcome

00:11:10.300 and so they had

00:11:11.980 to figure out

00:11:12.880 exactly how they were

00:11:13.840 going to get it

00:11:14.380 past a grand jury

00:11:15.340 and so they brought it back

00:11:18.220 for one,

00:11:19.900 another grand jury

00:11:20.680 that got thrown out

00:11:21.560 and then a third grand jury

00:11:22.760 they finally got

00:11:23.500 what they wanted

00:11:24.140 and tried them

00:11:25.520 in 2014,

00:11:27.640 got their verdict

00:11:28.620 in April,

00:11:30.380 I think it was October

00:11:31.660 and then in April

00:11:33.180 they were sentenced

00:11:33.960 and that's when

00:11:34.660 I found out about it.

00:11:35.600 And they were sentenced

00:11:36.220 to how long?

00:11:38.880 Nick Slatton

00:11:39.840 was sentenced

00:11:40.660 to life in prison

00:11:42.580 and the other guys

00:11:43.500 were sentenced

00:11:43.940 to 30 years

00:11:45.480 to life

00:11:46.980 based on a weapons charge

00:11:49.360 because they were

00:11:51.000 carrying weapons

00:11:52.080 that the government

00:11:53.760 assigned to them

00:11:54.620 that were used

00:11:55.640 in the commission

00:11:56.140 of a felony.

00:11:57.140 That was kind of

00:11:59.360 really ridiculous

00:12:00.200 but that was,

00:12:01.420 that's what drew

00:12:02.280 the mandatory sentence.

00:12:04.300 Okay, so when this happens,

00:12:05.660 this is when

00:12:06.720 your dog comes

00:12:08.020 to the back door

00:12:09.440 through the screen door?

00:12:11.040 Right?

00:12:11.720 Yes.

00:12:12.080 Okay.

00:12:12.720 Yes.

00:12:13.440 So, I mean,

00:12:14.680 if this isn't providential,

00:12:16.020 I don't know what is.

00:12:17.760 I'm telling you,

00:12:18.720 it really was.

00:12:19.660 So, I had just finished

00:12:22.160 the first book

00:12:22.900 that I did

00:12:23.360 which was Netflix,

00:12:25.340 a book about

00:12:26.140 the founding of Netflix

00:12:27.000 and I had moved

00:12:30.020 to Corpus Christi

00:12:31.340 to write it

00:12:32.180 and I had fallen

00:12:33.920 in love with this guy

00:12:35.000 who was

00:12:35.580 an oil field gauger

00:12:38.460 and I was living

00:12:39.780 with him in Taft

00:12:40.720 which is north of Corpus

00:12:41.940 and I had a little dog

00:12:43.440 named Jessica Simpson.

00:12:44.800 She was a Shih Tzu

00:12:45.640 and, you know,

00:12:47.820 every morning

00:12:48.280 he'd get up

00:12:48.860 and go out to,

00:12:50.280 you have to go to work

00:12:51.020 so I'd make his breakfast.

00:12:52.580 I let her out

00:12:53.520 and she came back

00:12:55.280 dragging a newspaper

00:12:57.420 and, you know,

00:12:59.580 I thought,

00:13:00.400 well, we don't get the paper

00:13:01.380 and we lived

00:13:02.780 in a really blue-collar

00:13:04.020 neighborhood

00:13:04.520 so I didn't know

00:13:05.980 where it came from

00:13:06.960 but she brought it in

00:13:08.620 and I put it up

00:13:09.840 on the counter

00:13:10.300 and he grabbed it

00:13:11.440 and opened it

00:13:12.420 and said

00:13:13.760 and he was reading it

00:13:15.660 over breakfast

00:13:16.500 and saw that

00:13:17.700 Dustin Hurd

00:13:18.860 who he knew that name

00:13:21.060 had been sentenced

00:13:22.600 to 30 years to life

00:13:23.960 and he was just shocked

00:13:25.220 because

00:13:25.820 Dustin grew up

00:13:28.480 across the street

00:13:29.440 from him

00:13:30.300 with his son

00:13:31.860 and

00:13:32.960 he said,

00:13:34.660 oh, you know,

00:13:35.260 I think this is

00:13:36.380 my friend's kid

00:13:37.340 and I looked at it

00:13:39.160 and I said,

00:13:39.540 oh, he was a Blackwater guard.

00:13:40.740 Yeah, well,

00:13:41.340 he probably got

00:13:41.880 what he deserved

00:13:42.620 so

00:13:43.620 so he said

00:13:46.260 after he confirmed

00:13:47.440 that that's who

00:13:48.060 it really was

00:13:49.080 he said,

00:13:51.060 well, you got to do

00:13:51.820 something about this

00:13:52.800 and I said,

00:13:54.260 no way, dude.

00:13:56.020 You know,

00:13:56.520 I'm a financial reporter.

00:14:00.100 Okay.

00:14:00.520 I did not agree

00:14:02.320 with the war here.

00:14:04.400 I don't even know

00:14:05.140 how I would go about

00:14:06.400 doing this

00:14:07.400 because I don't know

00:14:08.100 anything about foreign policy.

00:14:09.280 It would take forever

00:14:10.160 plus if my attitude

00:14:12.020 is this bad

00:14:12.920 there is just no way

00:14:14.460 that anybody

00:14:15.180 is going to

00:14:15.860 look into this again.

00:14:17.940 And so what

00:14:18.980 changed your mind?

00:14:21.820 He did.

00:14:22.880 He just

00:14:23.580 wouldn't let it go.

00:14:26.160 You know,

00:14:26.360 he started looking into it

00:14:27.780 and he forwarded me

00:14:29.840 news stories about it

00:14:31.300 and

00:14:31.740 so I started reading them

00:14:33.580 and I realized

00:14:34.500 before anything

00:14:36.120 that

00:14:36.780 the stories

00:14:37.980 were pretty one-sided.

00:14:39.080 you know,

00:14:39.800 I've done a lot

00:14:40.760 of criminal court reporting

00:14:41.920 and you always try

00:14:43.280 to get something

00:14:44.220 from the defense attorneys.

00:14:45.980 Right.

00:14:46.160 Most of the time

00:14:46.780 they'll tell you nothing

00:14:48.280 because, you know,

00:14:49.160 they don't want to,

00:14:50.360 you know,

00:14:51.200 disadvantage their clients

00:14:52.320 and a lot of times

00:14:53.020 the judges will put

00:14:53.900 a gag order on it.

00:14:55.360 But what was really

00:14:56.280 interesting was that

00:14:57.360 it seemed like

00:14:58.260 whoever was leaking

00:14:59.320 to the press,

00:15:00.500 which someone was,

00:15:02.080 was obviously

00:15:04.520 from the government

00:15:05.620 and there was

00:15:06.340 absolutely nothing

00:15:07.520 about the men,

00:15:09.120 their backgrounds,

00:15:09.920 anything like this.

00:15:10.660 So they were allowed

00:15:11.400 to exist as these

00:15:12.500 caricatures

00:15:13.260 in the media,

00:15:14.740 which I thought

00:15:15.480 was really unfair.

00:15:17.220 So that kind of

00:15:18.380 got my interest going.

00:15:20.300 And then

00:15:20.760 later

00:15:21.620 he and I

00:15:22.840 went to

00:15:23.480 his hometown

00:15:24.360 where I live now

00:15:25.320 and

00:15:26.260 and he engineered

00:15:27.720 this meeting

00:15:28.520 with Stacy Hurd,

00:15:29.980 who is Dustin's dad,

00:15:31.680 because I had told him,

00:15:32.800 I said,

00:15:33.420 dude,

00:15:33.780 I am,

00:15:34.500 I vote Democrat.

00:15:35.380 I'm a liberal.

00:15:36.780 These,

00:15:37.560 you know,

00:15:37.740 we're going into

00:15:38.420 deep red Texas

00:15:39.520 and these people

00:15:40.580 have been totally

00:15:41.700 abused in the media.

00:15:43.240 There is no way

00:15:44.340 any of them

00:15:45.000 are going to talk to me.

00:15:46.460 But he managed

00:15:47.940 to to get them

00:15:49.420 to talk to me

00:15:50.580 and then they gave me

00:15:51.740 the trial transcript

00:15:52.760 and I looked at that

00:15:54.100 and I knew immediately

00:15:55.140 that something was wrong.

00:15:58.420 More with Gina

00:15:59.180 in a second.

00:15:59.780 Right now,

00:16:00.340 the average American

00:16:01.240 is still finding it

00:16:02.320 difficult to pay expenses

00:16:03.480 every single month.

00:16:04.700 In most cases,

00:16:05.260 there's nothing left

00:16:05.980 to cover any of the extras.

00:16:08.100 Most people

00:16:08.780 haven't gotten a raise

00:16:10.080 and expenses are way up.

00:16:12.560 It can be very hard

00:16:13.500 to manage

00:16:14.040 without grabbing

00:16:14.660 the credit cards.

00:16:15.680 Listen,

00:16:15.920 if you're a homeowner

00:16:16.880 and you're frustrated

00:16:17.840 with that endless cycle

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00:17:04.200 When I found out

00:17:05.280 my friend got a great deal

00:17:06.700 on a wool coat

00:17:07.460 from Winners,

00:17:08.320 I started wondering,

00:17:09.980 is every fabulous item

00:17:11.580 I see from Winners?

00:17:13.100 Like that woman over there

00:17:14.380 with the designer jeans.

00:17:15.780 Are those from Winners?

00:17:17.340 Ooh,

00:17:17.980 or those beautiful gold earrings?

00:17:19.780 Did she pay full price?

00:17:21.160 Or that leather tote?

00:17:22.160 Or that cashmere sweater?

00:17:23.360 Or those knee-high boots?

00:17:24.540 That dress?

00:17:25.620 That jacket?

00:17:26.280 Those shoes?

00:17:27.340 Is anyone paying full price

00:17:29.060 for anything?

00:17:30.260 Stop wondering.

00:17:31.540 Start winning.

00:17:32.480 Winners.

00:17:33.060 Find fabulous for less.

00:17:35.240 How difficult was it?

00:17:37.320 Because there's been things

00:17:38.580 that I firmly believed

00:17:41.040 and then I get right up

00:17:43.620 on top of it

00:17:44.220 and I'm like,

00:17:44.680 oh my gosh,

00:17:45.460 I've been wrong.

00:17:46.620 You know,

00:17:47.320 I thought,

00:17:47.900 I thought I could trust my side.

00:17:50.700 I thought I could trust my side.

00:17:52.060 And my side is like,

00:17:53.480 not good.

00:17:55.000 You know,

00:17:55.400 doing some really bad things.

00:17:57.400 And it's hard to admit it.

00:17:59.920 It's hard to look at it.

00:18:01.480 It's hard.

00:18:01.980 I mean,

00:18:02.160 it takes courage

00:18:04.060 and grit

00:18:04.840 to just go,

00:18:05.920 well,

00:18:06.120 but that's the truth.

00:18:09.260 When did you start

00:18:10.600 having the feeling that,

00:18:11.980 oh my gosh,

00:18:13.020 my side is not the angels

00:18:16.400 that I thought they were?

00:18:17.500 that would be,

00:18:21.220 you know,

00:18:22.280 because I had a lot of doubts.

00:18:23.920 What you're saying is

00:18:25.160 I think every journalist

00:18:26.680 goes through that lately.

00:18:28.500 It's not something

00:18:29.420 that I remember

00:18:30.200 from back when,

00:18:31.360 you know,

00:18:31.800 when we were younger.

00:18:33.660 But it's gotten so tribal

00:18:35.840 that I was really worried.

00:18:38.360 Like I read the transcript

00:18:40.080 and I thought,

00:18:41.540 oh my God,

00:18:42.100 you know,

00:18:42.300 there's at least

00:18:42.900 three Brady violations here.

00:18:45.020 Why didn't anybody

00:18:46.000 write about this?

00:18:47.280 You know,

00:18:47.500 this is crazy.

00:18:48.820 This trial is so high profile.

00:18:51.540 This is the kind of stuff

00:18:52.940 that,

00:18:53.800 you know,

00:18:54.420 that needs to be talked about,

00:18:55.860 especially because

00:18:56.680 these were the same prosecutors

00:18:58.500 that were investigating

00:18:59.740 the Ted Stevens case

00:19:01.160 that got their hands slapped,

00:19:02.820 that almost got disbarred,

00:19:04.380 and then they're doing it again.

00:19:06.520 You know,

00:19:06.720 so I don't work in D.C.,

00:19:08.940 but I'm aware

00:19:10.080 of what the politics are

00:19:11.760 and how hard that can be

00:19:13.560 to go up against the government

00:19:15.220 because,

00:19:15.740 you know,

00:19:15.960 they'll shut you out.

00:19:16.880 You won't get press releases.

00:19:18.540 You know,

00:19:18.980 they won't return your calls.

00:19:20.220 It makes your job

00:19:21.120 really difficult to do.

00:19:22.340 So I understand it.

00:19:24.260 But what made it really hard

00:19:25.560 was I had the trial transcript.

00:19:27.380 I had a lot of stuff

00:19:28.880 from the FBI investigation

00:19:30.300 that was really shady.

00:19:32.420 And when I tried to give it

00:19:33.780 to some of my friends

00:19:34.880 because I wasn't in,

00:19:36.580 I wasn't working

00:19:37.300 for an outlet at the time.

00:19:39.560 I tried to give it to them

00:19:40.980 and none of them would touch it.

00:19:43.100 They would not touch it.

00:19:44.320 Why?

00:19:44.800 I went,

00:19:46.060 because,

00:19:46.540 you know,

00:19:46.960 they just,

00:19:47.440 they thought they're,

00:19:48.260 you know,

00:19:48.600 they're the same thing I did.

00:19:49.980 Like,

00:19:50.320 there's got to be some reason

00:19:52.180 that they did this.

00:19:53.620 Like,

00:19:53.800 what is the underlying reason

00:19:56.440 that no one is talking about?

00:19:58.700 Isn't it strange how,

00:20:01.340 because I've done that

00:20:02.420 a million times

00:20:03.560 and I have to stop myself

00:20:05.300 and go,

00:20:05.620 no,

00:20:05.900 look into it

00:20:07.000 because it's so,

00:20:09.220 we're so trusting

00:20:10.440 that we just assume

00:20:13.900 the government

00:20:14.560 could never do something

00:20:16.340 like that.

00:20:17.660 Now,

00:20:17.820 there's got to be some,

00:20:18.660 there's something

00:20:19.160 I don't know.

00:20:20.620 You know,

00:20:20.880 we're just,

00:20:21.600 we've all been conditioned.

00:20:24.320 We used to all believe,

00:20:26.020 you know,

00:20:26.700 our side used to be

00:20:27.640 all of America's side

00:20:28.600 and so we believe

00:20:29.260 our government.

00:20:30.300 Now,

00:20:30.980 you know,

00:20:31.320 it's kind of been split

00:20:32.140 in half,

00:20:32.620 Republicans and Democrats,

00:20:33.700 but we're still now conditioned

00:20:35.400 in our side

00:20:36.400 to believe our side,

00:20:37.320 not the other side

00:20:38.180 and it's,

00:20:39.900 it's bizarre.

00:20:42.420 It's not just conditioning,

00:20:44.260 it's peer pressure

00:20:45.300 because,

00:20:46.660 you know,

00:20:47.600 I actually,

00:20:49.000 so,

00:20:50.120 I actually,

00:20:51.060 when I was not able

00:20:52.100 to get anybody

00:20:53.260 to look at it

00:20:54.200 at the major outlets

00:20:55.660 where I had friends,

00:20:57.400 I started to get

00:20:58.780 kind of mad about it

00:20:59.900 because people

00:21:00.420 were telling me,

00:21:01.260 don't touch this.

00:21:02.800 You are going

00:21:03.220 to ruin your career.

00:21:04.860 Nobody wants

00:21:05.420 to hear about this.

00:21:07.000 I mean,

00:21:07.240 literally,

00:21:07.600 people were saying

00:21:08.460 stuff like that to me

00:21:09.540 and I thought,

00:21:11.160 well,

00:21:11.940 how did we get here?

00:21:14.380 You know,

00:21:14.920 there were times

00:21:15.980 earlier in my career

00:21:17.040 20 years ago

00:21:17.960 where my editors

00:21:19.480 were delighted

00:21:20.680 when I would bring

00:21:21.860 in evidence

00:21:22.420 that the government

00:21:23.780 or somebody,

00:21:24.940 you know,

00:21:25.240 a Democrat

00:21:25.760 or whoever

00:21:26.640 was misbehaving

00:21:28.080 because that's

00:21:28.820 what we do.

00:21:30.080 You know,

00:21:30.320 we're not here

00:21:31.500 to worship

00:21:32.140 the government

00:21:33.180 or anybody in it.

00:21:34.400 We're here

00:21:34.840 to make sure

00:21:35.500 that they adhere

00:21:36.200 to what they say

00:21:37.780 and what the law is.

00:21:39.120 Yeah.

00:21:39.540 So,

00:21:40.160 and I mean,

00:21:40.680 my agent

00:21:41.320 who represented me

00:21:42.880 for the Netflix book,

00:21:44.020 I went to him

00:21:44.680 and I said,

00:21:45.180 look,

00:21:45.360 this is a fabulous story.

00:21:47.200 You know,

00:21:47.440 they tried these guys

00:21:48.300 one time,

00:21:48.800 now they're going

00:21:49.200 to try them

00:21:49.580 two more times

00:21:50.420 or Nick Slatt

00:21:51.780 and two more times.

00:21:53.160 They have violated

00:21:54.260 the law

00:21:54.820 every which way

00:21:55.880 that you possibly can

00:21:57.060 and the media

00:21:57.620 is not paying

00:21:58.340 attention to it

00:21:59.380 and he said,

00:22:00.700 I am,

00:22:01.700 I won't represent

00:22:02.720 a book like that.

00:22:04.020 I'm morally,

00:22:05.320 morally I can't

00:22:08.020 and I said,

00:22:08.760 morally,

00:22:09.700 what's the moral part

00:22:11.560 that they work

00:22:12.200 for Blackwater

00:22:12.940 or Eric,

00:22:13.880 you don't like

00:22:14.300 Eric Prince

00:22:14.920 because he's

00:22:15.500 Christian

00:22:16.620 or rich

00:22:17.480 or what?

00:22:17.960 I did not

00:22:18.980 understand it

00:22:19.900 but there was

00:22:21.860 an immense amount

00:22:22.640 of peer pressure

00:22:23.460 when I was doing

00:22:24.280 the problem.

00:22:24.340 What did he say?

00:22:25.020 Did he answer that?

00:22:27.240 Did you ask him

00:22:28.260 morally,

00:22:29.380 what does that mean?

00:22:29.940 Yeah,

00:22:30.100 I said,

00:22:31.160 right,

00:22:31.640 he just said,

00:22:32.680 I just don't want

00:22:33.320 to support Blackwater

00:22:34.400 or anybody,

00:22:36.020 you know,

00:22:36.280 who made money

00:22:36.920 off the war

00:22:38.340 and I said,

00:22:40.640 but dude,

00:22:41.300 we all voted

00:22:43.040 to do this.

00:22:44.760 You know,

00:22:45.060 I didn't like it

00:22:46.280 but the American

00:22:47.340 people wanted us

00:22:48.420 to go in

00:22:49.100 and now we have

00:22:50.300 a duty to protect

00:22:51.520 the people

00:22:52.080 that went over there

00:22:53.800 and did the job

00:22:54.600 that we wanted

00:22:55.200 them to do.

00:22:56.180 Good for you.

00:22:56.840 I mean,

00:22:57.500 I asked probably

00:22:58.280 two or three times

00:22:59.080 and he absolutely

00:22:59.800 would not do

00:23:00.660 anything about it

00:23:01.720 and so I went

00:23:03.460 around to

00:23:04.280 some other

00:23:05.280 people who had

00:23:06.260 done war books

00:23:07.120 and things like that

00:23:08.080 and they said,

00:23:10.340 you know,

00:23:10.620 there's no ending

00:23:11.280 to this yet

00:23:11.920 so we can't

00:23:12.780 really represent it

00:23:13.780 so it was very depressing

00:23:15.220 because I couldn't

00:23:16.540 get anybody interested

00:23:17.440 until Michael Flaherty

00:23:18.720 who was the

00:23:20.040 co-founder of

00:23:20.980 Walden Media,

00:23:22.320 he's an evangelical

00:23:23.180 Christian,

00:23:24.120 he worked for

00:23:25.460 William Bolger,

00:23:28.080 he has a lot of friends

00:23:28.980 in the Republican Party

00:23:30.060 and Fox News

00:23:31.320 so he's the one,

00:23:33.280 he came to me

00:23:34.320 because I had done

00:23:35.080 a podcast

00:23:36.840 about my Netflix

00:23:37.960 book for Wondery

00:23:38.900 and it was really

00:23:39.700 successful

00:23:40.240 so he came to me

00:23:41.720 and said,

00:23:42.100 hey,

00:23:42.340 you know,

00:23:42.580 can I option

00:23:43.120 your book

00:23:43.720 and I said,

00:23:45.180 yeah,

00:23:45.440 and you know,

00:23:45.780 so we started

00:23:46.480 talking about

00:23:47.040 that project

00:23:47.800 and I said,

00:23:50.320 hey,

00:23:50.480 you know what,

00:23:50.880 I have this other

00:23:51.560 thing that I just,

00:23:52.640 I can't get it

00:23:53.260 off my mind,

00:23:54.180 I can't get anybody

00:23:54.860 to look at it,

00:23:56.220 do you think,

00:23:56.920 you know,

00:23:57.200 you could look

00:23:57.700 at this for me

00:23:58.480 and so I sent him,

00:23:59.960 I had written

00:24:00.460 so many different

00:24:01.460 proposals for it,

00:24:03.080 I sent him one

00:24:04.220 and he was

00:24:05.200 within a day

00:24:06.480 on board with it

00:24:07.680 and he started

00:24:08.360 taking it around

00:24:09.220 to the conservative

00:24:10.400 media

00:24:10.980 and you know,

00:24:12.240 I can't speak

00:24:12.760 to what their

00:24:13.580 agenda was

00:24:14.960 with this

00:24:15.520 but they embraced

00:24:17.120 it wholeheartedly,

00:24:18.100 we got to Pete Hegseth

00:24:19.200 and he really,

00:24:20.820 really was the reason

00:24:21.980 that this got

00:24:22.960 to President Trump

00:24:24.040 but it was just,

00:24:25.700 it was so disheartening

00:24:26.640 because even when

00:24:27.400 we did a podcast

00:24:28.420 to try to explain

00:24:29.720 the story,

00:24:31.140 to counteract

00:24:32.120 what was going on

00:24:32.760 in the media

00:24:33.240 and you know,

00:24:33.780 we were approaching

00:24:34.500 people and looking

00:24:35.460 for this pardon

00:24:36.220 or at least,

00:24:37.100 you know,

00:24:37.320 some kind of attention

00:24:38.360 to it

00:24:38.880 and people

00:24:39.880 just were so

00:24:40.680 locked in

00:24:41.620 to the version

00:24:42.520 that the government

00:24:43.220 had shopped

00:24:44.080 and the major

00:24:44.820 media had shopped

00:24:45.580 that we made

00:24:46.160 this podcast

00:24:46.980 to really go over

00:24:48.900 very minutely

00:24:50.240 what the evidence

00:24:51.620 was and what

00:24:52.560 it wasn't

00:24:53.300 and when I was

00:24:54.340 trying to get

00:24:54.880 interns to come

00:24:55.940 and work on

00:24:56.520 this thing,

00:24:57.100 people who I was

00:24:57.760 going to pay,

00:24:58.880 I couldn't get

00:24:59.580 anybody to do it,

00:25:00.720 they would literally

00:25:01.600 look at the subject

00:25:02.600 matter and say,

00:25:03.760 I don't want to

00:25:04.440 work on that.

00:25:05.060 It was unbelievable.

00:25:09.060 So what does that

00:25:09.940 say to you

00:25:11.720 not about journalism

00:25:14.080 but the,

00:25:15.040 even the journalistic

00:25:18.120 schools that are,

00:25:19.220 I mean,

00:25:19.400 if you're taking

00:25:20.560 interns,

00:25:21.440 younger people,

00:25:23.500 you know,

00:25:23.780 when you were young,

00:25:24.760 when I was young,

00:25:26.060 we both knew

00:25:27.360 what a journalist

00:25:28.680 was supposed to do.

00:25:29.840 You are not part

00:25:31.580 of the government,

00:25:32.340 you are in opposition

00:25:33.380 of the government

00:25:34.400 and it doesn't

00:25:35.700 mean you're right

00:25:36.620 and you are just

00:25:37.620 holding them in check

00:25:39.080 and,

00:25:40.100 you know,

00:25:41.700 it's one thing

00:25:42.480 to be too,

00:25:43.660 too much of a zealot

00:25:45.180 and going after

00:25:46.280 everything and,

00:25:47.220 you know,

00:25:47.480 I know they're always

00:25:48.540 lying,

00:25:49.220 they're turning out

00:25:50.060 to do that,

00:25:50.660 but,

00:25:51.160 you know,

00:25:52.360 it's one thing

00:25:53.060 to be maybe

00:25:54.160 overzealous,

00:25:54.940 but they're,

00:25:55.580 there's,

00:25:56.300 there's,

00:25:57.320 they're on the

00:25:58.060 same team now

00:25:58.940 and that's

00:26:01.300 really dangerous

00:26:03.760 what does that

00:26:04.840 say about

00:26:05.400 the next generation

00:26:06.640 that the young

00:26:07.760 ones that should

00:26:09.040 still be idealistic,

00:26:10.280 I'm standing

00:26:10.780 for these values,

00:26:11.360 don't even know

00:26:12.040 what those values

00:26:12.780 are.

00:26:14.100 Yeah,

00:26:14.580 I don't know,

00:26:15.740 it's,

00:26:16.020 it's like some

00:26:16.640 kind of a video

00:26:17.440 game that they

00:26:18.140 live in or something,

00:26:18.980 you know,

00:26:19.940 it's almost like

00:26:20.540 people don't

00:26:21.100 understand what

00:26:22.300 the,

00:26:22.960 you know,

00:26:23.500 what the outcome

00:26:24.260 of this type

00:26:25.720 of,

00:26:26.200 you know,

00:26:27.780 my team,

00:26:28.680 your team

00:26:29.240 interaction is

00:26:30.720 because,

00:26:31.880 you know,

00:26:32.140 the beauty

00:26:32.680 of being a

00:26:33.300 journalist is

00:26:34.080 that you're

00:26:34.880 kind of a

00:26:35.940 no man,

00:26:37.280 you know,

00:26:37.920 to live like

00:26:38.840 a journalist

00:26:39.380 is a little

00:26:40.580 bit,

00:26:41.100 I mean,

00:26:41.300 I'm not going

00:26:41.680 to say it's

00:26:42.220 like a monk

00:26:43.320 or anything,

00:26:43.800 but,

00:26:44.300 you know,

00:26:44.580 I never

00:26:45.140 socialized with

00:26:46.820 the people

00:26:47.560 that I covered.

00:26:48.920 My friends

00:26:49.300 were all

00:26:49.680 reporters because,

00:26:51.020 you know,

00:26:51.340 people felt

00:26:51.860 very uncomfortable

00:26:52.720 hanging around

00:26:53.520 with us

00:26:54.020 because they

00:26:54.740 would,

00:26:55.500 you know,

00:26:55.800 they were

00:26:56.120 worried that we

00:26:56.740 would find out

00:26:57.940 something and

00:26:58.580 investigate them

00:26:59.440 and I guess

00:26:59.900 that's kind of

00:27:00.460 the way it

00:27:00.760 should be

00:27:01.220 and the guys

00:27:02.120 who trained

00:27:02.620 me,

00:27:03.360 I mean,

00:27:03.640 I hate to

00:27:04.560 generalize about

00:27:05.600 them,

00:27:05.880 but they were

00:27:06.220 mainly men,

00:27:07.720 some women,

00:27:09.100 some really

00:27:09.560 amazing women

00:27:10.600 who the story

00:27:12.600 was it.

00:27:13.960 It was about

00:27:14.620 the story.

00:27:15.560 It wasn't about

00:27:16.320 currying favor

00:27:17.320 with people

00:27:17.840 or,

00:27:18.280 you know,

00:27:19.080 getting points

00:27:19.940 with people

00:27:20.360 for not running

00:27:21.540 something or

00:27:22.560 for running

00:27:23.560 something a

00:27:24.140 certain way.

00:27:25.300 It just was,

00:27:26.420 it was very

00:27:27.200 pure in my

00:27:28.060 opinion.

00:27:28.820 It was,

00:27:29.160 I mean,

00:27:29.320 obviously,

00:27:29.960 newspapers always

00:27:30.760 have a point

00:27:31.880 of view

00:27:32.240 and that's

00:27:32.680 fine.

00:27:33.220 You know,

00:27:33.380 at least you

00:27:33.880 know what

00:27:35.540 the slant is.

00:27:36.720 You know who

00:27:37.380 you're talking

00:27:37.920 to and,

00:27:39.360 you know,

00:27:39.820 you can read

00:27:40.280 it from a lot

00:27:40.760 of sources,

00:27:41.180 but to

00:27:42.660 amplify either

00:27:44.160 side with the

00:27:45.100 power of the

00:27:45.880 press,

00:27:46.900 you need to

00:27:47.840 be cognizant

00:27:48.800 of what that

00:27:49.560 does to the

00:27:50.460 people way

00:27:51.740 down the

00:27:53.320 ladder.

00:27:54.380 You know,

00:27:54.720 the story of

00:27:55.780 Raven 2-3 is

00:27:56.640 a story of

00:27:57.180 people who are

00:27:57.720 not getting

00:27:58.160 hurt in this

00:27:58.800 country and I

00:28:00.080 think that's

00:28:00.680 part of the

00:28:01.280 reason that

00:28:02.440 people are so

00:28:03.140 angry and

00:28:04.160 that they are

00:28:04.880 so tribal.

00:28:07.800 More with

00:28:08.420 Gina in just

00:28:08.960 a second.

00:28:09.640 First,

00:28:10.140 let me tell you

00:28:10.460 about relief

00:28:10.880 factor.

00:28:11.500 Do you wake

00:28:11.920 up every morning

00:28:12.500 wondering how

00:28:13.320 pain is going

00:28:14.120 to affect your

00:28:14.640 day?

00:28:15.520 Michael from

00:28:16.000 Connecticut used

00:28:16.860 to, but not

00:28:17.540 anymore.

00:28:18.840 His relief

00:28:19.660 factor story came

00:28:20.800 to me.

00:28:21.160 Michael was

00:28:22.260 dealing with

00:28:22.740 elbow pain,

00:28:23.520 which he said

00:28:24.020 made everything

00:28:24.740 he used his

00:28:25.600 hand or his

00:28:26.380 arm for really,

00:28:27.540 really hard.

00:28:28.240 But good thing

00:28:28.900 you don't need

00:28:29.300 your hands or

00:28:29.820 your arms.

00:28:30.980 That's why he

00:28:31.660 started taking

00:28:32.200 relief factor.

00:28:33.440 Michael's elbow

00:28:34.200 pain went away.

00:28:35.480 He also said

00:28:36.240 the other aches

00:28:37.000 and pains went

00:28:37.580 away too that

00:28:38.260 I've had.

00:28:38.820 On top of that,

00:28:39.520 he felt like he

00:28:40.620 had more energy.

00:28:42.140 So if you're

00:28:42.640 living like

00:28:43.720 Michael, you

00:28:44.220 have aches

00:28:44.680 and pains,

00:28:45.440 see how

00:28:45.800 relief factor,

00:28:47.000 a daily drug-free

00:28:48.260 supplement, might

00:28:49.260 help you feel

00:28:49.820 better and live

00:28:50.560 better.

00:28:51.340 Join the over

00:28:51.840 one million people

00:28:52.720 who have turned

00:28:53.200 to relief factor

00:28:53.900 just like Michael.

00:28:54.740 Call now.

00:28:55.220 Try their

00:28:55.500 three-week

00:28:55.920 quick start.

00:28:56.780 It's $19.95,

00:28:57.940 less than a

00:28:58.500 dollar a day.

00:28:59.300 Don't let pain

00:29:00.020 keep you away

00:29:00.640 from living

00:29:01.320 every day the

00:29:02.320 way you want.

00:29:03.720 Relieffactor.com,

00:29:04.820 800-4-RELIEF,

00:29:05.980 800-4-RELIEF.

00:29:08.280 Claudia was

00:29:09.040 leaving for her

00:29:09.660 pickleball tournament.

00:29:10.580 I've been

00:29:10.860 visualizing my

00:29:11.660 match all week.

00:29:13.120 She was so

00:29:13.720 focused on

00:29:14.220 visualizing that

00:29:15.100 she didn't see

00:29:15.700 the column behind

00:29:16.360 her car on her

00:29:17.260 backhand side.

00:29:19.100 Good thing

00:29:19.800 Claudia's with

00:29:20.420 Intact, the

00:29:21.240 insurer with the

00:29:22.040 largest network of

00:29:22.900 auto service centers

00:29:23.720 in the country.

00:29:24.820 Everything was

00:29:25.360 taken care of

00:29:26.000 under one roof,

00:29:26.760 and she was

00:29:27.280 on her way in

00:29:27.780 a rental car

00:29:28.400 in no time.

00:29:29.280 I made it to

00:29:30.020 my tournament

00:29:30.620 and lost in

00:29:31.840 the first round.

00:29:32.760 But you got

00:29:33.580 there on time.

00:29:34.600 Intact Insurance,

00:29:35.760 your auto service

00:29:36.520 ace.

00:29:37.220 Certain conditions

00:29:37.760 apply.

00:29:38.120 I don't, you

00:29:41.580 know, I was

00:29:41.900 struck by something

00:29:42.420 you said earlier

00:29:43.380 that just made

00:29:44.940 me think of

00:29:45.840 the ends

00:29:48.380 justify the

00:29:49.180 means, that

00:29:49.880 you know, we

00:29:50.680 are living now

00:29:52.220 with a government,

00:29:54.560 and I fear both

00:29:56.160 sides of the

00:29:57.320 aisle on this,

00:29:58.960 that they don't

00:30:00.640 actually work for

00:30:01.920 the people.

00:30:02.180 There's no fear

00:30:03.000 of the people

00:30:03.880 anymore.

00:30:04.720 There's no fear

00:30:05.460 it all.

00:30:06.520 And when you

00:30:08.460 have a government

00:30:09.260 that is willing

00:30:10.660 to say, look,

00:30:11.700 we need this

00:30:13.220 political thing

00:30:14.100 to happen over

00:30:14.880 here, sacrifice

00:30:16.440 those four guys.

00:30:19.560 Right.

00:30:20.320 People don't

00:30:21.540 understand, guys,

00:30:23.460 if they do that

00:30:24.240 to them, then

00:30:26.400 that's already

00:30:27.600 demonstrating it

00:30:28.740 doesn't matter.

00:30:29.460 If you get in

00:30:30.140 their way, or you

00:30:31.020 can be used as a

00:30:32.100 pawn or a sacrifice

00:30:33.040 or anything

00:30:33.440 else, you're

00:30:34.400 not viewed as

00:30:36.040 the all-important

00:30:37.520 citizen with

00:30:38.400 rights.

00:30:39.500 You're just

00:30:40.000 somebody that

00:30:40.600 can be used

00:30:41.400 by the government

00:30:42.080 to do what

00:30:43.080 they need

00:30:43.880 to be done.

00:30:45.880 Yeah, exactly.

00:30:46.780 And it just

00:30:47.720 seems so

00:30:48.380 incredibly petty

00:30:49.520 to me that

00:30:50.940 the Obama

00:30:52.340 administration

00:30:53.000 could not

00:30:53.720 figure out

00:30:54.460 how to

00:30:55.120 achieve its

00:30:55.720 ends without

00:30:56.260 doing something

00:30:57.080 so terrible.

00:30:59.240 And something

00:31:00.400 else that came

00:31:01.620 up when I

00:31:02.360 was doing

00:31:02.740 this investigation

00:31:03.640 because I

00:31:04.620 was talking

00:31:05.180 to Justice

00:31:05.980 for Warriors

00:31:06.640 and a lot

00:31:08.180 of veterans

00:31:08.580 groups to

00:31:09.720 try to

00:31:10.300 mobilize them

00:31:11.940 was the

00:31:12.860 number of

00:31:14.160 cases like

00:31:15.080 this in the

00:31:15.980 veteran community

00:31:16.940 where, you

00:31:18.560 know, for

00:31:19.000 example, there

00:31:19.580 was a guy

00:31:20.080 who was

00:31:21.460 accused and

00:31:22.300 may put on

00:31:23.180 the sexual

00:31:25.860 offender

00:31:26.760 registry

00:31:27.500 military

00:31:27.600 because, you

00:31:30.500 know, somebody

00:31:31.180 was intent

00:31:33.380 on showing

00:31:34.640 that the

00:31:35.540 Pentagon was

00:31:36.060 doing something

00:31:36.700 about sexual

00:31:37.520 harassment and

00:31:38.380 sexual assaults

00:31:39.380 in the military.

00:31:40.460 And the case

00:31:41.040 was just

00:31:41.700 idiotic.

00:31:42.780 But there

00:31:43.180 were so many

00:31:44.080 like that

00:31:44.840 where they

00:31:45.540 weren't doing

00:31:46.300 the work of

00:31:46.980 investigating and

00:31:47.820 protecting people

00:31:49.020 and making

00:31:49.440 things better.

00:31:50.460 It was like a

00:31:51.040 show, like,

00:31:52.340 okay, here,

00:31:52.920 here's this case,

00:31:53.560 I can show you.

00:31:54.400 I, you know,

00:31:55.220 I did something

00:31:55.840 about sexual

00:31:56.600 harassment.

00:31:57.000 I did something

00:31:57.860 about us

00:31:58.580 killing a lot

00:31:59.500 of civilians.

00:32:00.380 And remember,

00:32:01.160 all of this

00:32:01.760 stuff with the

00:32:02.460 Raven 2-3 case

00:32:03.740 was happening

00:32:04.540 during the

00:32:05.460 drone war,

00:32:06.540 the Obama

00:32:07.020 drone war,

00:32:08.020 where we were

00:32:08.460 killing all

00:32:09.000 kinds of

00:32:09.540 civilians all

00:32:10.380 over the

00:32:10.860 Middle East.

00:32:11.840 So, you

00:32:12.360 know, it was

00:32:12.980 very weird.

00:32:14.040 It was like

00:32:14.360 some kind of

00:32:14.900 deflection of

00:32:16.120 all the other

00:32:17.240 stuff that the

00:32:17.960 government was

00:32:18.900 doing, and

00:32:19.400 they're blaming

00:32:19.940 it on four

00:32:21.160 guys from

00:32:21.800 little towns

00:32:22.500 who they felt

00:32:23.280 could not fight

00:32:24.000 back.

00:32:25.100 And that's kind

00:32:25.620 of what I love

00:32:26.100 about this story

00:32:26.700 the most,

00:32:27.180 is that every

00:32:27.900 single one

00:32:28.400 of these

00:32:28.660 little towns

00:32:29.420 massed an

00:32:31.400 army and

00:32:32.880 fought back.

00:32:35.980 You write,

00:32:37.940 thanks to

00:32:38.360 WikiLeaks,

00:32:39.060 we know that

00:32:39.880 behind the

00:32:40.440 scenes,

00:32:40.820 Secretary of

00:32:41.380 State Hillary

00:32:41.940 Clinton,

00:32:42.380 Vice President

00:32:42.840 Joe Biden,

00:32:43.480 Attorney General

00:32:44.040 Eric Holder,

00:32:45.180 pushed for

00:32:45.620 convictions because

00:32:46.600 of political

00:32:47.220 pressure from a

00:32:48.160 corrupt Iraqi

00:32:48.940 government that

00:32:49.960 they wanted to

00:32:50.620 make appear

00:32:51.340 legitimate.

00:32:52.400 I know it

00:32:52.840 sounds crazy,

00:32:53.880 yet this is

00:32:54.600 what happened,

00:32:55.080 and I saw

00:32:55.560 it with my

00:32:55.940 own eyes.

00:32:57.600 Go ahead,

00:33:00.080 comment on

00:33:00.560 that.

00:33:02.400 So, you

00:33:04.440 know, for a

00:33:05.020 long time, it

00:33:06.260 was pretty obvious,

00:33:07.060 you know, because

00:33:07.820 the defense

00:33:08.560 attorneys told

00:33:09.660 the guys and

00:33:11.200 their families

00:33:11.820 when the trial

00:33:13.100 was going on or

00:33:13.860 when they were

00:33:14.500 indicted initially

00:33:15.500 in 2008, that

00:33:17.500 it was basically

00:33:18.760 a show trial,

00:33:19.400 just to show the

00:33:20.160 Iraqis that they

00:33:20.980 were going to

00:33:21.900 hold somebody

00:33:22.720 accountable for

00:33:24.420 the supposed

00:33:26.420 massacre in

00:33:27.500 Nasser Square,

00:33:28.660 and they felt,

00:33:30.280 you know, they

00:33:30.600 put on a very

00:33:31.400 small number of

00:33:33.400 witnesses because

00:33:34.820 as one of them

00:33:35.840 told me, you

00:33:36.520 know, we didn't

00:33:36.940 think, they

00:33:37.420 didn't have any

00:33:38.000 evidence, you

00:33:39.220 know, so we

00:33:39.620 just thought we

00:33:40.140 were going to

00:33:40.520 go through the

00:33:41.120 motions and the

00:33:42.180 jury would

00:33:42.760 eventually vote

00:33:43.940 to acquit

00:33:44.420 them.

00:33:45.140 Well, what they

00:33:45.660 didn't realize

00:33:46.920 was that they

00:33:47.860 were going to

00:33:48.200 be tried in

00:33:48.800 Washington, D.C.,

00:33:49.960 where people

00:33:51.340 are not.

00:33:52.860 Yeah, and I

00:33:53.380 mean, they

00:33:54.020 violated the

00:33:56.120 venue laws in

00:33:58.100 ways that I

00:33:58.660 describe in the

00:33:59.240 book that are

00:33:59.660 just outrageous,

00:34:01.240 you know, and

00:34:02.260 the National

00:34:02.860 Association of

00:34:03.740 Criminal Defense

00:34:04.460 Lawyers wrote

00:34:05.080 an amicus brief

00:34:05.860 on their behalf

00:34:06.520 saying if the

00:34:07.760 government is

00:34:08.340 allowed to shop

00:34:09.340 venue anywhere

00:34:10.580 they want, there

00:34:11.520 is just absolutely

00:34:12.760 no guarantee of

00:34:14.380 due process.

00:34:15.960 So where they

00:34:16.540 should have been

00:34:17.940 tried was Salt

00:34:18.920 Lake City, where

00:34:19.800 they had another

00:34:20.840 defendant who

00:34:21.500 was eventually

00:34:24.260 removed from the

00:34:25.180 case or dismissed

00:34:26.080 from the case, or

00:34:28.100 Sparta, Tennessee,

00:34:29.920 where Nick Slatton

00:34:30.640 is from, the

00:34:33.240 Dallas area, where

00:34:34.500 Paul Slough is

00:34:35.240 from, and Dustin

00:34:37.500 is from Olney, which

00:34:38.540 is, you know, close

00:34:39.720 to that, but so

00:34:40.840 or New Hampshire,

00:34:42.860 where Evan's from.

00:34:44.720 Any of those

00:34:45.340 venues would have

00:34:45.980 been fine, but it

00:34:46.920 wouldn't have

00:34:47.320 guaranteed them the

00:34:48.880 result that they

00:34:49.540 wanted.

00:34:50.340 So basically, we

00:34:53.120 were kind of like,

00:34:53.820 okay, they take

00:34:54.580 them to D.C., and

00:34:57.180 that was bad.

00:34:58.060 I mean, they did

00:34:58.520 fight against it, but

00:35:00.780 we didn't know for

00:35:02.880 sure that that's what

00:35:04.280 was going on until

00:35:05.760 Kristen Slough's

00:35:07.220 attorney, Dave

00:35:08.140 Harrison, checked

00:35:09.600 WikiLeaks and found

00:35:11.020 those emails between

00:35:12.400 Hillary Clinton and

00:35:13.780 I think his name is

00:35:15.560 Harold Goh, who was

00:35:17.600 her chief legal

00:35:18.740 counsel, and it

00:35:19.800 was literally the

00:35:21.160 day after the

00:35:24.020 pardons, or not

00:35:25.460 pardons, the

00:35:26.260 dismissal of the

00:35:27.580 case was made

00:35:28.280 public in Iraq.

00:35:29.380 It was, I think,

00:35:30.600 January 2nd or 3rd.

00:35:32.620 She immediately

00:35:34.080 emailed him and

00:35:35.140 said, how can we

00:35:36.960 make this case come

00:35:37.780 back?

00:35:39.000 Oh, my gosh.

00:35:39.640 And that's

00:35:40.860 literally it.

00:35:41.620 It's like, so she

00:35:42.460 did that, and then

00:35:43.500 Joe Biden goes to

00:35:44.700 Iraq about two

00:35:46.260 weeks later and

00:35:47.320 guarantees the

00:35:48.540 Iraqis that, you

00:35:49.580 know, they're going

00:35:50.060 to get justice.

00:35:51.060 It's like, what?

00:35:52.540 The second most

00:35:53.820 powerful man in the

00:35:55.360 world is going on

00:35:57.500 TV and saying

00:35:59.520 essentially that

00:36:00.760 you're guilty and

00:36:01.860 you got away with

00:36:02.780 it.

00:36:03.560 So, I mean, there's

00:36:04.680 no way that there is

00:36:06.240 a jury pool anywhere

00:36:07.760 that didn't hear

00:36:08.680 that.

00:36:09.640 You know, so it's

00:36:11.000 like, why would

00:36:12.000 you do that?

00:36:12.460 There's no

00:36:12.940 presumption of

00:36:13.680 innocence here when

00:36:14.600 you're out there

00:36:15.420 doing this stuff.

00:36:17.240 And the reason is

00:36:18.800 because of what

00:36:19.800 else those cables

00:36:21.680 revealed, which was

00:36:22.880 that they were, you

00:36:24.220 know, that they

00:36:24.700 were trying to get

00:36:25.440 Maliki to win in

00:36:27.680 the March election,

00:36:28.980 which was two

00:36:29.540 months away.

00:36:30.400 And he was

00:36:31.280 complaining to the

00:36:32.420 White House that

00:36:33.780 he needed to look

00:36:35.400 tough for the, for

00:36:37.080 his constituents,

00:36:38.880 that those are the

00:36:39.580 words that are in

00:36:40.260 the cables and

00:36:41.360 he was demanding

00:36:42.360 that they appeal

00:36:45.220 this decision.

00:36:46.540 So essentially

00:36:47.280 American domestic

00:36:49.620 policy and

00:36:50.840 criminal justice

00:36:51.880 is being decided

00:36:53.260 by Nuri al-Maliki

00:36:55.580 and the desire to

00:36:57.540 have him as the

00:36:58.800 prime minister of

00:36:59.560 Iraq.

00:37:00.000 I had a guest

00:37:02.620 on, I don't

00:37:04.720 know, it's

00:37:04.980 been in the last

00:37:05.520 12 months, a

00:37:08.940 husband who was

00:37:11.140 over fighting in,

00:37:12.480 I think,

00:37:12.780 Afghanistan.

00:37:14.680 And the, they

00:37:18.140 went into a

00:37:18.980 firefight and it

00:37:19.940 was, it was

00:37:20.740 horrible.

00:37:21.400 And one of the

00:37:23.440 people was holding

00:37:24.420 a baby, a mom,

00:37:26.780 she was holding a

00:37:27.540 baby and she had

00:37:28.840 a suicide vest on

00:37:29.920 and they killed

00:37:30.420 her, the baby

00:37:31.360 lived and the

00:37:32.500 Afghanis that were

00:37:33.860 fighting with the

00:37:34.640 Americans wanted to

00:37:35.480 kill the baby because

00:37:36.460 they were like, that

00:37:37.480 baby will grow up and

00:37:38.860 then be, you know,

00:37:40.980 angry at our side.

00:37:42.300 And so we got to

00:37:42.900 kill it.

00:37:43.260 And the Americans

00:37:44.120 were like, no, no,

00:37:44.720 no, no, no, no, no,

00:37:45.620 no.

00:37:47.080 And took the baby and

00:37:48.660 it eventually went

00:37:50.160 back and forth.

00:37:51.380 And this guy and his

00:37:52.540 wife decided to adopt

00:37:53.760 the little girl and

00:37:54.940 bring her to America.

00:37:55.920 America, but then

00:37:57.540 the State Department

00:37:59.680 got involved and the

00:38:01.680 State Department, right,

00:38:03.500 needed to have the

00:38:06.960 smooth exit, if you

00:38:08.760 could call that

00:38:09.260 smooth, and they

00:38:10.860 needed to make a

00:38:11.800 deal.

00:38:12.180 And this baby was

00:38:13.820 evidence that there

00:38:14.960 were foreign fighters

00:38:16.160 in Iraq, which they

00:38:19.900 had said, no, there's

00:38:20.600 no foreign fighters.

00:38:21.180 So they had to erase

00:38:22.160 this evidence.

00:38:22.740 And so they were

00:38:23.320 giving the baby back

00:38:24.200 to nobody.

00:38:25.280 They didn't even,

00:38:26.140 there was no evidence

00:38:27.020 that this family was

00:38:29.920 related at all.

00:38:31.260 It went back and

00:38:32.060 forth.

00:38:32.580 And here are these,

00:38:34.220 there's a soldier

00:38:34.940 telling me this story

00:38:35.820 and saying, it was my

00:38:37.160 government.

00:38:37.900 It was my State

00:38:39.540 Department that

00:38:41.340 lied and made us

00:38:44.540 into the bad guys

00:38:45.900 because they needed

00:38:47.600 the bad guys to,

00:38:49.900 you know, end the

00:38:51.580 war and ended in the

00:38:53.560 way the State

00:38:54.400 Department needed.

00:38:55.240 And it's like, I

00:38:57.900 mean, how do you,

00:38:59.100 how do you tolerate

00:39:01.480 a government that

00:39:02.220 will do all these

00:39:02.920 things?

00:39:04.280 Well, I mean, and

00:39:04.820 they're way more

00:39:05.520 concerned with optics

00:39:06.900 and some bizarre

00:39:08.060 story that they've

00:39:09.460 invented.

00:39:11.020 And then they just

00:39:12.200 need to erase any

00:39:13.400 evidence that that,

00:39:14.840 you know, that that

00:39:15.840 the opposite is the

00:39:18.220 true.

00:39:18.480 I mean, that's exactly

00:39:19.180 what happened with the

00:39:19.980 Raven 23 case.

00:39:20.800 And it's just

00:39:21.300 bizarre.

00:39:21.700 It's like, you're

00:39:22.420 spending, I can't, I

00:39:23.920 never got an answer

00:39:24.960 about how much this

00:39:26.800 costs, but I asked

00:39:27.860 some defense attorneys

00:39:28.740 about it and they

00:39:29.500 said, okay, three

00:39:31.020 trials and probably

00:39:32.860 at least half a dozen

00:39:34.780 lawyers from the DOJ,

00:39:36.460 not including the

00:39:37.480 support staff, how

00:39:38.820 much it costs to

00:39:39.580 bring something like

00:39:40.640 46 Iraqis over to

00:39:43.200 testify and keep

00:39:44.920 them here for a

00:39:46.180 month.

00:39:47.380 You know, let some

00:39:48.180 of them stay, preserve

00:39:50.460 the evidence, which

00:39:52.300 wasn't collected for a

00:39:53.700 month after the

00:39:55.160 incident, it probably

00:39:56.420 cost about $50

00:39:57.320 million.

00:39:58.140 And you're like,

00:39:58.800 okay, we can't

00:40:00.280 think of a different

00:40:00.920 way to, that doesn't

00:40:03.400 cost $50 million

00:40:04.320 and ends up with

00:40:06.060 four innocent people

00:40:07.240 in jail.

00:40:08.300 Yeah.

00:40:08.800 Really?

00:40:09.460 You can't figure that

00:40:10.740 out.

00:40:11.840 So somewhere along the

00:40:13.300 line.

00:40:14.020 It's just easier.

00:40:15.100 People don't matter to

00:40:16.960 this system, it

00:40:17.900 seems.

00:40:19.140 It's easier.

00:40:19.820 I mean, I just

00:40:21.100 don't, I mean, yeah,

00:40:22.860 I think that's

00:40:23.460 probably right.

00:40:24.440 And I think that, you

00:40:26.160 know, not everybody in

00:40:27.020 government is bad, but

00:40:28.080 there it's, it's just

00:40:30.060 like what I went

00:40:31.040 through trying to

00:40:32.620 report on this case.

00:40:34.360 The peer pressure is

00:40:36.100 immense not to

00:40:37.820 divert from what

00:40:39.420 your side is saying

00:40:40.700 that it is, it is, I

00:40:43.000 mean, almost violent

00:40:44.680 anger when you do

00:40:46.040 that.

00:40:46.340 And I just don't

00:40:47.540 understand that.

00:40:48.600 It just, it's like,

00:40:49.440 how do you get up in

00:40:51.020 the morning and feel

00:40:51.940 like you're doing

00:40:52.580 anything valuable to

00:40:54.620 the rest of society?

00:40:55.940 If you have to lie

00:40:57.440 constantly to yourself

00:40:59.080 about what's

00:40:59.900 happening.

00:41:02.060 I think it's really

00:41:03.120 hard to admit that

00:41:04.040 you've been wrong when

00:41:04.820 you've built your whole

00:41:05.520 life on something you

00:41:07.100 believed in.

00:41:08.580 And then you realize,

00:41:09.960 oh, I might be part

00:41:11.740 of that.

00:41:12.420 I don't, I mean, it

00:41:13.600 takes an enormous

00:41:14.380 amount of courage and

00:41:15.880 fortitude to do that.

00:41:17.960 I mean, you've done

00:41:18.960 it, I've done it, but

00:41:20.080 it, I think there's a

00:41:22.400 lot of people that

00:41:22.980 just, their whole world

00:41:24.300 will collapse around,

00:41:25.320 they think their whole

00:41:26.300 world will collapse

00:41:27.180 around them if they,

00:41:29.100 you know, decide I'm

00:41:32.920 not necessarily

00:41:33.580 switching horses, I'm

00:41:34.740 just getting off this

00:41:35.540 horse because this

00:41:36.460 horse is taking me to

00:41:37.360 the wrong place.

00:41:39.080 Yeah, exactly.

00:41:41.720 But, you know, I am

00:41:43.540 sympathetic to that

00:41:44.660 because probably I would

00:41:46.040 say the last 10 years

00:41:47.200 of my career as a

00:41:49.380 daily journalist, I

00:41:51.260 understand, you know,

00:41:52.540 I saw every, you know,

00:41:54.760 day to day when I was

00:41:55.620 covering the financial

00:41:56.400 crisis, there were

00:41:57.440 times at Reuters where

00:41:59.020 stories were pulled

00:42:00.860 because some hedge fund

00:42:01.980 manager was mad, you

00:42:04.320 know, oh, don't report

00:42:05.440 on that, you know, what

00:42:06.760 was happening with the

00:42:07.540 financial bank collapse

00:42:08.720 because they pay for a

00:42:11.960 lot of Reuters terminals.

00:42:13.460 So there's a huge

00:42:14.400 economic incentive to

00:42:17.500 just go along with it.

00:42:18.860 And because we do that,

00:42:20.840 we tend to idolize these

00:42:22.500 people who have a lot of

00:42:23.500 money because of the

00:42:25.340 erosion of the middle

00:42:27.340 class.

00:42:28.180 That's the power.

00:42:29.220 We have to hang to the

00:42:30.460 tail, you know, tail

00:42:32.760 coats of people who have

00:42:33.900 money because we don't

00:42:35.260 have that power anymore.

00:42:36.340 And I guess one of the

00:42:37.780 things that I want to

00:42:38.540 talk, you know, I want

00:42:39.360 to make clear about in

00:42:40.560 the book is you do have

00:42:42.180 power.

00:42:43.140 You know, we we are

00:42:44.600 fighting in exactly the

00:42:45.680 same system that

00:42:46.380 everybody else is right

00:42:47.380 now.

00:42:47.840 But we had it because we

00:42:49.200 stood together and we

00:42:50.120 stood for the truth.

00:42:51.400 Yes.

00:42:51.920 I was I remember the

00:42:53.340 first time I was really

00:42:54.740 disillusioned by my own

00:42:57.380 side.

00:42:57.700 it was 2007, I think.

00:43:04.080 And we were close to the

00:43:06.080 collapse.

00:43:07.180 And I had been talking

00:43:08.260 about, you know, these

00:43:09.300 CDOs and and the way

00:43:10.820 we're making loans on

00:43:11.900 houses and what we're

00:43:12.740 doing.

00:43:13.040 This doesn't make sense.

00:43:14.280 And I'm not an educated

00:43:15.320 guy.

00:43:15.640 I'm a self-educated guy,

00:43:16.800 which I think actually in

00:43:17.940 this case helped because I

00:43:19.460 didn't know all of the

00:43:20.360 systems.

00:43:21.300 You know what I mean?

00:43:22.100 I could just see none of

00:43:23.480 that makes any sense.

00:43:25.580 And I was on with a guy

00:43:28.000 who I watched for years.

00:43:29.820 It was a financial guy

00:43:31.220 and I really, really

00:43:32.540 trusted him.

00:43:33.840 And he had me on and I

00:43:36.200 talked about it and he

00:43:37.100 pushed back a little bit.

00:43:38.420 We had a great

00:43:39.040 conversation.

00:43:40.040 And once the camera went

00:43:41.620 off, he didn't even look

00:43:42.700 at me.

00:43:43.200 I got up and I said,

00:43:44.240 thank you so much.

00:43:44.980 And he said, you're the

00:43:46.260 most irresponsible man

00:43:47.420 I've ever met.

00:43:48.460 And and I said, what?

00:43:52.400 And he said, you're the

00:43:53.420 most irresponsible man

00:43:54.520 I've ever met.

00:43:55.160 And I said, did did you

00:43:58.280 not agree with me?

00:43:59.620 And he's like, no, what

00:44:00.680 you said is true.

00:44:01.640 But we have a

00:44:02.580 responsibility not to

00:44:04.540 tell the people because

00:44:06.040 they'll panic.

00:44:06.860 And I was like, oh, my

00:44:08.280 gosh.

00:44:10.160 Who who put you in that

00:44:11.800 ivory tower?

00:44:12.920 You that is your only job

00:44:15.120 is to tell people what

00:44:16.840 you found and what you

00:44:18.340 believe is true.

00:44:19.760 And I don't know how

00:44:22.040 do we get that?

00:44:23.140 But how do we how do we

00:44:24.620 turn that corner from a

00:44:26.540 you know, the ends

00:44:28.920 justify the means that

00:44:30.800 the that the little guy

00:44:32.660 can be crushed because

00:44:35.060 the system is more

00:44:36.520 important.

00:44:37.160 How do we get that out

00:44:39.340 of journalism?

00:44:41.480 Well, I think it's going

00:44:42.840 in the right direction.

00:44:44.120 You know what happened

00:44:45.280 with the consolidation of

00:44:46.720 media with corporations

00:44:47.920 was really negative.

00:44:49.040 You know, I think that

00:44:51.900 what you're doing right

00:44:54.900 now and what people like

00:44:56.880 you are doing right now

00:44:58.080 is exactly what we need

00:44:59.720 because people are seeking

00:45:00.980 out the truth.

00:45:02.180 They want to know they

00:45:03.500 want something trustworthy.

00:45:05.760 And, you know, and it's

00:45:07.840 really interesting because

00:45:08.780 when I when we first

00:45:10.140 started dabbling in

00:45:12.260 the Internet to

00:45:14.620 distribute news when I

00:45:16.360 was I think I was at

00:45:17.100 Reuters at the time and

00:45:18.180 everybody was trying to

00:45:19.580 figure out how to use all

00:45:20.640 the social media.

00:45:21.360 And I thought, man, this

00:45:22.200 this is really a

00:45:23.020 distraction.

00:45:23.580 Like, I don't know how

00:45:25.200 this is going to work out

00:45:26.140 because everybody can get

00:45:27.620 on and tell a story,

00:45:29.180 whatever they want, you

00:45:30.480 know.

00:45:30.740 And so eventually what

00:45:32.020 it's going to come down to

00:45:33.000 is who is who is proven

00:45:34.920 to be trustworthy.

00:45:36.080 Correct.

00:45:36.580 And telling the truth.

00:45:37.600 And I knew that just

00:45:38.860 because of working with

00:45:39.840 the markets, that the

00:45:41.280 markets will always seek

00:45:42.920 the most reliable

00:45:44.860 information.

00:45:46.300 So whenever I am looking

00:45:47.960 for some kind of

00:45:49.500 real information, I

00:45:51.040 either go to the

00:45:51.660 government, you know,

00:45:52.480 statistics or I go to

00:45:53.900 whatever the Wall Street

00:45:54.780 Journal is doing or

00:45:55.940 Barron's or, you know,

00:45:57.620 any any of those guys,

00:45:58.980 because the people,

00:46:01.040 the traders are going to

00:46:02.280 find out what's

00:46:03.280 happening.

00:46:04.040 And so I thought, well,

00:46:05.400 that's exactly what's

00:46:06.400 going to happen

00:46:06.900 eventually.

00:46:07.380 It's probably going to

00:46:08.200 take a couple of

00:46:08.840 decades to, you know,

00:46:10.180 to shake out to where

00:46:11.980 the people who are

00:46:12.640 doing propaganda are

00:46:14.120 recognized as such

00:46:15.640 because people have

00:46:17.020 thirst for that kind of

00:46:18.120 thing, you know,

00:46:19.060 because the press is the

00:46:20.940 engine of our society,

00:46:22.600 really, because things

00:46:24.520 get stuck like they are

00:46:25.980 right now in Congress

00:46:26.820 because the press isn't

00:46:27.840 doing its job.

00:46:29.020 You know, I mean, we

00:46:30.040 should have known, you

00:46:31.540 know, I'm looking at

00:46:32.580 Congress and I'm no

00:46:33.960 expert or anything.

00:46:34.780 But when you have people

00:46:36.040 in my party who are in

00:46:37.400 their 80s trying to

00:46:39.280 represent a middle

00:46:41.060 class that is in

00:46:42.260 their 20s and 30s

00:46:43.620 and they cannot figure

00:46:44.840 out how to get

00:46:46.520 housing going or make

00:46:47.940 wages better or make

00:46:49.240 people want to have

00:46:49.960 kids, it's because the

00:46:51.940 press is not covering

00:46:53.720 they're hanging on the

00:46:56.000 every word of these

00:46:56.860 people and not going

00:46:58.240 into the community and

00:46:59.300 saying, hey, what do

00:47:00.260 you want and what's

00:47:01.540 happening when you tell

00:47:03.200 your representatives that

00:47:04.340 this is what you want?

00:47:05.400 I am so happy to hear

00:47:06.400 you say this.

00:47:06.940 I think we're the same

00:47:07.720 age.

00:47:07.960 We probably disagree on

00:47:09.180 politics almost, on

00:47:10.420 almost everything.

00:47:11.640 But but I one of my

00:47:15.960 main kicks is.

00:47:19.380 You know, if we are the

00:47:20.940 same age, you just

00:47:22.780 miss the hippie era, I

00:47:24.080 just miss the hippie

00:47:24.980 era.

00:47:25.280 Yes.

00:47:25.780 Yes.

00:47:26.480 And the damn hippies

00:47:27.640 have got to let go.

00:47:29.260 They've got to let go.

00:47:31.800 You had your time.

00:47:33.000 You did your thing.

00:47:34.280 It's not even we don't

00:47:35.820 even get the chance.

00:47:37.020 You know, we're the

00:47:37.860 latchkey kids.

00:47:38.660 So we didn't get the

00:47:39.820 chances past us because

00:47:40.900 they wouldn't let go.

00:47:42.380 They've got to let go.

00:47:43.820 And we have got to

00:47:44.920 protect the young

00:47:46.040 generation coming up.

00:47:47.820 Yeah.

00:47:48.220 Let turn it.

00:47:49.240 It's their turn.

00:47:51.600 It's their turn.

00:47:53.620 That's exactly how I

00:47:55.060 feel.

00:47:55.400 I feel horrible that we

00:47:57.720 did not get our

00:47:58.500 opportunity because I

00:47:59.480 think that we could have

00:48:00.220 done a good job.

00:48:00.900 And people who are our

00:48:01.840 age have great ideas

00:48:03.600 and we know what we

00:48:04.700 want.

00:48:05.020 But it's almost the

00:48:06.700 end of our time.

00:48:07.540 It is because, you

00:48:09.060 know, we don't know.

00:48:10.540 I didn't work for a long

00:48:11.860 time using social media

00:48:13.180 or having to have side

00:48:14.660 gigs and stuff like that.

00:48:16.040 I had a job that

00:48:17.640 paid me enough so that I

00:48:19.520 could buy a house and do

00:48:20.520 all the things I wanted to

00:48:21.560 do.

00:48:21.860 But the kids now, they

00:48:24.140 have to cobble together.

00:48:25.780 It's a different world.

00:48:26.500 It's a completely

00:48:27.400 different world.

00:48:29.280 Yes.

00:48:29.560 And it just shocks me

00:48:30.840 that nobody can figure

00:48:31.920 out that you cannot live

00:48:34.060 on $60,000 a year

00:48:35.880 anymore.

00:48:36.340 You can't buy a house.

00:48:37.200 You can't have a kid.

00:48:38.460 These are not hard

00:48:39.400 problems to solve unless

00:48:40.640 you're 80 and it's not

00:48:42.060 important.

00:48:44.700 Let me.

00:48:45.580 You're singing.

00:48:46.480 You're singing my song.

00:48:48.520 Let me ask you.

00:48:52.540 Because you didn't

00:48:54.600 switch horses.

00:48:55.800 You just got off.

00:48:56.680 No.

00:48:57.280 You didn't switch

00:48:58.260 horses.

00:48:58.680 But do you look

00:49:01.580 now at the

00:49:03.020 things that are

00:49:03.700 coming out of the

00:49:04.820 government on

00:49:06.000 Russiagate and

00:49:07.660 see the same

00:49:08.620 players and go,

00:49:10.020 wait, maybe

00:49:11.780 there is something

00:49:12.900 there?

00:49:14.660 Well, here.

00:49:15.180 Yeah.

00:49:15.380 Here's what I think

00:49:16.120 about that.

00:49:17.960 There is no

00:49:19.200 question that

00:49:21.680 this was a

00:49:23.420 storyline that was

00:49:24.780 invented.

00:49:25.640 I'm not going to say

00:49:26.400 that, you know,

00:49:26.920 there was no

00:49:27.460 wrongdoing and

00:49:28.320 there was no,

00:49:28.860 you know,

00:49:29.540 improper contact

00:49:31.360 or anything like

00:49:32.560 that.

00:49:33.240 However, this was

00:49:35.080 hyped to the

00:49:36.660 point that it

00:49:38.220 just became

00:49:38.860 something that it

00:49:39.700 absolutely isn't.

00:49:40.960 And I'll give you

00:49:41.460 another example is

00:49:42.600 the thing that's

00:49:43.620 going on right now.

00:49:44.340 I'm in Texas with

00:49:45.300 the redistricting

00:49:46.000 issue.

00:49:46.660 And of course,

00:49:47.220 you know,

00:49:47.420 Democrats are all

00:49:48.280 upset about it.

00:49:49.480 But then you look,

00:49:50.480 you know, I lived in

00:49:51.180 L.A. for a long

00:49:51.960 time.

00:49:52.680 Republicans were

00:49:53.420 nowhere'sville.

00:49:54.440 You know, I

00:49:55.360 lived in Pasadena

00:49:56.300 when the last

00:49:58.120 Republican, James

00:49:59.160 Rogan, was voted

00:50:00.140 out of office so

00:50:01.060 that Adam Schiff

00:50:01.820 could come in.

00:50:02.980 So it is extremely

00:50:04.560 difficult for a

00:50:05.560 Republican to get

00:50:06.980 elected there.

00:50:07.840 And that's on

00:50:08.360 purpose.

00:50:08.980 It's hard for a

00:50:09.820 Democrat to get

00:50:10.580 elected here.

00:50:11.480 But here's the

00:50:12.060 thing.

00:50:12.760 I live in a really

00:50:13.600 little town.

00:50:14.320 I am the editor of

00:50:15.280 the newspaper here,

00:50:16.100 which is one of the

00:50:16.740 most fun things that

00:50:17.600 I've ever done.

00:50:18.600 But the problems that

00:50:20.520 I am seeing here

00:50:21.680 are so solvable.

00:50:24.220 We have a hospital

00:50:24.980 that's about to go

00:50:25.940 under because there's

00:50:27.060 no money and they're

00:50:28.080 doing strange things

00:50:29.160 with Medicaid.

00:50:30.320 Our maternity

00:50:30.900 hospital or our

00:50:32.000 maternal care just

00:50:32.840 got canceled.

00:50:33.380 We were the only

00:50:34.020 hospital in the

00:50:34.740 whole county that

00:50:35.500 had it.

00:50:36.500 So if the Democrats

00:50:37.400 would get off their

00:50:38.480 butts and come down

00:50:39.820 here and try to

00:50:40.660 figure out how to

00:50:42.140 solve these problems,

00:50:43.720 nobody would be

00:50:44.400 voting Republican.

00:50:45.680 But they don't care

00:50:46.600 about those issues.

00:50:47.840 They spend all of

00:50:48.680 their time trying to

00:50:49.660 figure out,

00:50:50.520 how to make Ted

00:50:51.340 Cruz look terrible

00:50:52.420 or, you know,

00:50:53.300 because he went

00:50:53.760 on vacation.

00:50:54.980 I said, I said

00:50:56.780 this just, I think

00:50:57.860 today or yesterday,

00:50:58.840 I heard Beto

00:51:00.120 talking about

00:51:01.180 redistricting and

00:51:02.760 it was, so it

00:51:03.580 must have been

00:51:03.860 Monday, the, the,

00:51:05.040 at the same time

00:51:06.140 Donald Trump was

00:51:07.260 on TV talking

00:51:08.100 about crime in

00:51:09.140 D.C.

00:51:09.740 You can agree or

00:51:10.800 disagree with what

00:51:11.620 he's done in D.C.,

00:51:13.680 but which one of

00:51:14.960 those, if it

00:51:16.140 changes the lives

00:51:17.340 of the people in

00:51:18.260 Washington, which

00:51:19.900 one of those

00:51:20.840 says, I care

00:51:22.400 about the people

00:51:23.340 and which one

00:51:24.200 says, I care

00:51:25.400 about power,

00:51:26.360 whether it's true

00:51:27.620 or not, you

00:51:29.500 know, one is a

00:51:31.260 clear message to

00:51:32.160 the people and

00:51:34.020 it's, it's not a

00:51:35.460 winning, you know,

00:51:36.320 it's not, it's not a

00:51:37.160 winning thing to say

00:51:37.920 and we're going to

00:51:38.800 keep doing every,

00:51:40.060 whatever we have to

00:51:40.780 do for power.

00:51:41.760 It's not a winning

00:51:42.620 message.

00:51:43.000 That's, that's

00:51:44.000 exactly right.

00:51:44.580 I mean, I think

00:51:45.020 both sides are

00:51:45.700 exactly the same

00:51:46.400 way.

00:51:46.660 I get press

00:51:47.720 releases in my

00:51:48.500 inbox every single

00:51:49.460 day and they're

00:51:50.140 not addressing the

00:51:51.020 issues.

00:51:51.500 They're fighting

00:51:52.320 with each other

00:51:52.980 and trying to make

00:51:53.580 each other look

00:51:54.140 bad, which is

00:51:54.740 idiotic because if

00:51:56.660 we literally, if we

00:51:58.160 could have like two

00:51:59.320 regulations changed

00:52:00.840 in Texas, we

00:52:02.640 could have our

00:52:03.400 maternity services

00:52:04.620 back in our

00:52:06.300 hospital.

00:52:07.040 If they would do

00:52:08.000 something about

00:52:08.820 health care, we

00:52:10.000 could have a

00:52:10.500 beautiful little

00:52:11.320 rural hospital.

00:52:12.460 It's a hundred

00:52:12.860 and something

00:52:13.600 years, 112 years

00:52:15.040 old, that would

00:52:16.680 continue to serve

00:52:17.520 the people here.

00:52:18.280 And those are

00:52:19.120 important issues.

00:52:20.600 Okay.

00:52:20.900 We don't care about

00:52:21.800 plastic bags in

00:52:23.520 Austin.

00:52:24.460 We care about that

00:52:26.040 kind of stuff.

00:52:26.740 Okay.

00:52:27.020 We have, we have a

00:52:28.500 water plant that's

00:52:29.380 a hundred years old.

00:52:30.660 We sold bonds for

00:52:32.300 it.

00:52:32.600 And after COVID, the

00:52:34.060 price of everything

00:52:35.240 went up so high that

00:52:36.780 we could not afford

00:52:37.900 it.

00:52:38.160 So we had to go

00:52:38.680 back to the drawing

00:52:39.460 board, try to figure

00:52:40.380 out what kind of

00:52:41.020 technology we could

00:52:41.940 use to, you

00:52:44.260 know, to get a

00:52:44.880 water plant that

00:52:45.660 was, that would

00:52:46.540 serve the people

00:52:47.440 here.

00:52:47.940 So, and, you

00:52:48.820 know, and it's not

00:52:49.360 like we need a ton

00:52:50.160 of money.

00:52:50.600 We just need people

00:52:51.240 to pay attention

00:52:51.820 to us.

00:52:52.460 And the people

00:52:53.360 here, I will give

00:52:54.380 them so much

00:52:54.940 credit.

00:52:55.420 Almost every single

00:52:56.380 one of them voted

00:52:57.040 for Donald Trump

00:52:57.760 or will vote for

00:52:58.640 Republican.

00:53:00.400 They see the

00:53:01.660 hypocrisy.

00:53:02.660 And I think that

00:53:03.280 they're extremely

00:53:04.300 feel very betrayed

00:53:05.920 by the Democrats who

00:53:07.200 portray themselves as

00:53:08.500 being for the

00:53:10.160 common man.

00:53:11.020 while not paying,

00:53:12.120 you know, they're

00:53:12.640 siloed in these

00:53:14.480 cities.

00:53:16.180 And that's, if you

00:53:17.060 look at the map, it's

00:53:17.840 like these little

00:53:18.420 strongholds and they

00:53:19.840 don't come out here,

00:53:20.740 but they could easily

00:53:22.000 convert these people if

00:53:23.800 they would actually do

00:53:24.900 their jobs.

00:53:25.820 I am, I'm convinced

00:53:27.900 all this is changing.

00:53:29.480 I don't know how.

00:53:30.880 I hope so.

00:53:31.460 I hope it doesn't have

00:53:32.280 to get worse than this,

00:53:33.820 but I think it's

00:53:34.860 changing.

00:53:35.200 I know in me, at

00:53:36.900 least, I'm so done

00:53:38.600 with the game of

00:53:40.380 all of it.

00:53:40.860 You know, somebody

00:53:41.880 said to me, well,

00:53:44.220 I'll tell you, it

00:53:45.260 was Roger Ailes at

00:53:46.160 Fox.

00:53:46.700 When I left Fox, he

00:53:48.820 said, you know what

00:53:49.400 your problem is?

00:53:50.240 And I said, no, sir,

00:53:51.260 I don't.

00:53:52.120 And he said, you

00:53:53.160 won't play the game.

00:53:55.360 And, uh-huh.

00:53:56.920 And I...

00:53:57.580 What do you do when

00:53:58.420 someone admits it?

00:53:59.760 I know.

00:54:00.120 I said, well, some

00:54:01.840 of us don't believe

00:54:02.760 it is a game.

00:54:03.740 We actually believe

00:54:04.800 in something, and

00:54:06.060 it's not a game.

00:54:07.760 And then he just

00:54:08.740 looked at me, and I

00:54:09.380 looked at him, and I

00:54:10.060 got up and walked

00:54:10.760 out.

00:54:12.180 It is viewed as a

00:54:14.540 game to too many

00:54:15.560 people, and I think

00:54:18.040 the American people

00:54:19.080 are figuring all of

00:54:20.540 that out.

00:54:21.260 I think they're

00:54:22.480 figuring, I've been

00:54:23.840 played for a long,

00:54:26.020 long time, and

00:54:26.900 everything is coming

00:54:28.240 undone, and I

00:54:30.020 hopefully without

00:54:32.200 any bad things

00:54:34.940 happening, you

00:54:36.300 know, revolution-wise,

00:54:38.580 I think people are

00:54:39.300 just going to say

00:54:39.960 enough is enough.

00:54:41.180 We just have to

00:54:42.140 take care of

00:54:42.600 business.

00:54:43.780 Too many things

00:54:44.660 matter that are so

00:54:45.660 easy to fix.

00:54:46.820 We're just fixing

00:54:47.480 it.

00:54:48.880 Right, right.

00:54:49.420 Well, I mean, and

00:54:50.100 it's not difficult,

00:54:51.200 but they have to

00:54:51.860 have a representative

00:54:52.660 to vote for.

00:54:53.900 Yes, yes, yes.

00:54:54.760 Who is going to

00:54:55.020 do that?

00:54:55.560 So in the absence

00:54:56.680 of that, they are

00:54:57.460 voting for Donald

00:54:58.280 Trump, who is

00:54:58.960 deconstructing

00:54:59.740 everything, because

00:55:00.900 they're sick of the

00:55:01.640 system, and they

00:55:02.500 don't think that it

00:55:03.760 works, and there is

00:55:04.420 no one that I've

00:55:05.920 seen in the

00:55:06.380 Democratic Party who

00:55:07.360 is stepping up and

00:55:08.160 going, okay, what do

00:55:09.620 you people need?

00:55:10.640 You know, because

00:55:11.220 honestly, if they

00:55:12.540 would come out to

00:55:13.380 some of these areas

00:55:14.300 that are voting so

00:55:15.160 heavily for Republicans

00:55:16.200 and just fix some of

00:55:17.480 this stuff, these

00:55:18.800 places would be

00:55:19.520 little oases.

00:55:20.800 You know, we have a

00:55:21.520 town here.

00:55:22.520 It doesn't get

00:55:22.980 clicks.

00:55:23.240 Yeah, I mean, we

00:55:23.840 have broadband, we

00:55:25.080 have everything.

00:55:25.880 You could come out

00:55:26.540 here, the cost of

00:55:27.560 living is low, but

00:55:28.840 there is nobody who

00:55:29.840 cares about that

00:55:30.880 enough to fix it, and

00:55:32.440 that, and the press

00:55:33.340 is absolutely

00:55:34.540 enraptured by these

00:55:36.460 stupid fights about

00:55:38.540 who went on

00:55:39.260 vacation and, you

00:55:40.600 know, who's evil and

00:55:42.280 who's not.

00:55:43.160 You know, it's, I

00:55:44.000 mean, I remember the

00:55:45.340 whole argument about,

00:55:46.680 oh, you can't write

00:55:47.460 about, you know,

00:55:48.860 somebody who's not

00:55:49.700 just like you because

00:55:50.480 you're appropriating,

00:55:51.780 and I said, how in the

00:55:53.040 world are we supposed

00:55:53.740 to do our jobs?

00:55:55.000 I'm a 61-year-old

00:55:56.480 white woman.

00:55:57.220 You mean I can't

00:55:57.960 write a book about

00:55:58.860 somebody who's, you

00:56:00.820 know, a different race

00:56:01.880 or gender than me?

00:56:03.040 It's just the

00:56:03.600 conversation got so

00:56:04.800 idiotic that I think

00:56:06.840 that the American

00:56:07.500 people just said, let's

00:56:08.560 just blow this up and

00:56:09.640 start over.

00:56:11.780 I think if we live

00:56:13.360 next door to each

00:56:14.040 other, you and I

00:56:14.820 would be fast friends.

00:56:16.180 Even though we don't

00:56:17.020 vote the same way, I

00:56:17.940 think we would be

00:56:18.420 good friends.

00:56:20.340 One last question.

00:56:22.140 How many of the

00:56:22.820 people that were

00:56:23.400 involved in putting

00:56:25.200 these guys in jail?

00:56:28.300 How many of these

00:56:29.140 people have gone to

00:56:31.360 jail themselves, been

00:56:32.820 fired?

00:56:33.340 How many of them are

00:56:33.860 still in government?

00:56:36.900 None.

00:56:37.320 They're all there.

00:56:38.000 Well, some of the

00:56:39.260 prosecutors who are

00:56:40.660 involved in this case

00:56:41.780 have left the DOJ.

00:56:44.460 But they weren't

00:56:45.280 prosecuted.

00:56:46.120 They didn't.

00:56:46.500 They weren't punished.

00:56:47.340 No, absolutely not.

00:56:48.960 And the judge in the

00:56:49.760 case, who is older than

00:56:51.160 dirt and should have

00:56:52.060 retired a long time

00:56:53.120 ago, is still hearing

00:56:55.080 cases, Judge Royce

00:56:56.300 Lamberth.

00:56:56.860 And there's a big part

00:56:57.900 in the book about that

00:56:59.880 where I was

00:57:01.140 investigating him and

00:57:02.260 found that there was a

00:57:03.440 scholarly or an academic

00:57:04.740 paper written by a

00:57:06.020 George Washington law

00:57:07.440 school professor about

00:57:08.400 him several years

00:57:09.220 before the Raven 2-3

00:57:10.840 case even happened,

00:57:11.880 where he was making the

00:57:13.200 argument that this man

00:57:14.500 is the poster child for

00:57:16.900 why there should not be

00:57:18.060 lifetime tenure for

00:57:19.440 just judges.

00:57:20.260 I mean, the story that

00:57:21.700 he tells in this

00:57:22.480 academic paper is just

00:57:23.680 outrageous, the amount

00:57:25.080 of money that this guy

00:57:26.360 wasted, and it just

00:57:27.880 doesn't even seem like

00:57:29.040 he cares about, you

00:57:31.300 know, he goes in,

00:57:33.000 picks a winner, and

00:57:33.940 then just decides that

00:57:34.840 it's like a personal

00:57:35.680 game for him.

00:57:37.040 So that's the kind of

00:57:40.080 stuff that people are

00:57:41.100 seeing and going, this

00:57:42.180 isn't working.

00:57:43.140 I hope so.

00:57:44.300 Gina, thank you.

00:57:45.980 What a pleasure to have

00:57:48.020 you on.

00:57:48.320 What an honor to talk

00:57:50.220 to somebody who is

00:57:53.140 open-minded enough just

00:57:54.640 to continue to follow

00:57:55.780 the truth no matter

00:57:56.560 where it takes them.

00:57:57.480 Thank you.

00:57:58.620 Thank you.

00:58:04.920 Just a reminder, I'd

00:58:07.020 love you to rate and

00:58:08.080 subscribe to the podcast

00:58:09.320 and pass this on to a

00:58:10.380 friend so it can be

00:58:11.260 discovered by other

00:58:11.960 people.

00:58:12.240 Thank you.

00:58:13.240 Thank you.

00:58:14.240 Thank you.

00:58:15.240 Thank you.

00:58:16.240 Thank you.

00:58:17.240 Thank you.

00:58:19.300 Thank you.

00:58:19.780 Thank you.

00:58:20.200 Thank you.

00:58:26.080 Thank you.

The Glenn Beck Program - August 16, 2025

Ep 263 ｜ How Obama Weaponized His Deep State Against Hero Vets ｜ Gina Keating ｜ The Glenn Beck Podcast

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