Ep 27 ｜ Bob Goff ｜ The Glenn Beck Podcast
Episode Stats
Length
1 hour and 3 minutes
Words per Minute
178.08443
Summary
In this episode, I sit down with my good friend, Glenn Goff, to talk about how he went from being a lawyer to being a hero in the fight against Islamic extremism in the Middle East. Glenn is a husband, father, and grandfather to three amazing kids. He is a great human being and an amazing human being in general counsel for the Ugandan government, which is one of the most important positions in the country.
Transcript
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If you could be anybody in the world, from any time period, whatever, who would you be?
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But yeah, I just think this, it's just, life is just so interesting, isn't it?
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I'm just so glad we get to be back together again.
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And your, somebody asked you if you could write your autobiography in six words, you said.
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Because I think most of the stuff that drives everything you and I and the people listening do, it's either love or fear.
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We just got to figure out who we're giving the keys to every day.
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So I want to come back and how you get to that philosophy.
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But first, for anybody who doesn't know you, let's start with you're an attorney.
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You're like the happiest attorney I think I've ever met.
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So I'm saying I put on this Mickey Mouse watch probably 30 years ago and say, you ever walk into a room and you feel like you're the only guy smiling?
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So you're an attorney, but you found yourself somehow or another becoming general counsel or counsel.
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So tie it from you're just a practicing attorney to now who you are.
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Well, you know, first of all, claim to fame is like husband to sweet Maria Goff and dad to these three amazing children.
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Um, but just like, uh, all the people, uh, let's see, you know, one thing leads to another.
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So, uh, I have a capability, so it's like practicing law, but we aren't just limited by what we're capable of.
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You say like, what are some things that will actually light my passions?
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And so then those started taking me, uh, to some people, Uganda at the time was in a great big civil war, 25 year civil war.
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And I thought, well, I could help out, maybe do something.
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That's, that's, most people don't get on the plane.
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Um, he was watching the news and he saw these Christians being persecuted in Syria and Iraq and the Yuzidis and everybody else.
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And he got on a plane and he found himself in Iraq and we started a, a, a, a fund together.
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And we've, we've rescued all these people over in Iraq and Syria and we building houses for them.
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And, and, but it's crazy because if you think about it, you don't do it.
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You say, I'm not going to get on a plane and go to Iraq.
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With a little bit of an accent, but, but that, that whole idea is, um, uh, getting away from asking for permission to live your life.
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If you have permission, some, if we have agency over the things that we do, you just say, what's a passion.
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And I love that everybody's wired so wonderfully different.
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You know, there's some people like plan it all.
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And I'm more like build the plane while you're flying it.
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Um, and I really believe this life is more adventure than it is business trip.
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Imagine Glenn, if you and I were driving down the road and our left rear wheel passed us in the fast lane, that'd make a lousy business trip, but it'd be an awesome adventure.
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And so I think one of the things that, uh, I've been doing is where there's an opportunity and you see something, you say like, actually I could get some skin in that game and just go be humble about it.
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Say like, I don't have much, but I'm available.
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Um, and so bring all the availability you've got.
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And, and then what you'll do is that you'll find this opportunity.
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We could, uh, take a passion that you have, meet an opportunity and just see where it goes.
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So we found an, and, and I found it bizarre that people who had absolutely no experience in any of it, none of it, none of us knew what we were doing.
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All of a sudden, when we realized nobody was doing it, we're like, well, somebody's got to do it.
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But most people in most times you, you wait for permission or you look for someone who's already doing it.
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And then you wait for them to give you permission to do the things that they're telling you to do.
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Are there the people who are those kinds of people that should do that?
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And then there are people like you who are just like, no, I'm, I got my own machete.
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And there's all those variations in between, uh, like kind of like riffing, uh, uh, on, uh, these personality types.
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Have you been, uh, like read the Enneagram and learned about these personality types?
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Um, there's a one type would be a seven and I'm the enthusiast.
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I'm just like, uh, I'm always thinking what could possibly go wrong.
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We have some in our family who are just very detailed.
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And, and so just wonderfully just figure out how you were hardwired from the factory and
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But I wouldn't live in fear back to the original idea.
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I mean, the disciples, those guys got the nets on the wrong side of the boat most of the
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I'll bring all the capability I have and where it finds an opportunity.
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The world seems to be going just rushing towards fear right now, just rushing towards fear.
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Um, some of it's not, uh, some of it's overblown.
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You, there's stuff that you're like, I can't do anything.
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Um, and that is causing more and more frustration.
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How does somebody, for instance, if you're concerned about the direction of things, okay,
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the direction of people or society or culture, and you, you don't want to unplug because
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you feel like, well, I mean, I, somebody's gotta be in there and stand in guard, but you
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And I mean, how do you talk about the circle around you, your sir, your oval office?
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Imagine you and I are down in the Caribbean and we're in the water, uh, like waist deep
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Uh, I would hope it was a dolphin, but, uh, probably say that it's a shark.
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So if you say to your listeners, some would say definitely dolphin, my wife, sweet Maria
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She'd say that's a thousand sharks and the other 999 or a, because I'm the enthusiast,
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even if it was a shark, I'd say dolphin with a lot of teeth.
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So figure out what's keeping you out of the water.
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And if it's wisdom that you've gained through experience and all that, then that's terrific.
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And so if you take a social issue, something that's captivated people's attention to say,
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Um, I, one of the things that I do is I, I win arguments for a living as do you, but
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I, I, I'm really picky about the things I argue with people about.
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I'm just trying to be actually a little bit more humble about things to just say, to be
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curious to say, I wonder where that's coming from.
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And to be curious about the people that are sending the messages.
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There's a guy that calls me about every three weeks from the back of my book.
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I thought I knew all the cuss words, but evidently there's new ones and we've never gotten to
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what he's mad about, but I finished the conversation with him the same way.
00:09:14.720
Every time I say, I will always take your call because I'm not trying to be right.
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I want to be, I look at the way these people that have shaped history, take all the leaders
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that have influenced, uh, you and all the listeners and to just say, how did they deal
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The only time I raised my voice is when I'm yodeling and I've never yodeled.
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So, so let's go to, let's go to Jesus for a second.
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Martin Luther King, Gandhi, Lincoln, they all used Jesus stuff.
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Um, and all of the Christians, it seems right now, when you say,
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And you're like, wait, but isn't that what Jesus said to do?
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So there's a disconnect between what we believe, or maybe it's a disconnect between us and Jesus.
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We think that's okay for Jesus, but it won't work for me.
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And isn't the proof in the pudding with all of the great men that have lived that it does work?
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I think there's a lot of people that have awesome doctrine and lousy theology.
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And this idea of, it's easy to say to love your enemy until you have an enemy.
00:11:01.660
Until you have somebody that you feel disconnected.
00:11:03.240
I don't feel like I have enemies, but there's certainly people that are difficult for me to be around.
00:11:08.000
One of the realizations that I've had is that this idea of loving difficult people that I'm one of them actually among the difficult people in other people's lives.
00:11:18.440
And I'm trying to say, how could I interact with people?
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There's a, for some people in faith communities, they're familiar with a verse that talks about like being ready to make a defense for the hope that's within you.
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And everybody wants to like grab their swords and what they leave out the second half.
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And I think there's something beautiful about that.
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They're not mad at anybody and I'm not mad at them.
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So I, if you could just walk around with a bobsled and a bar of chocolate, you can decide who you are in.
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Everybody's trying to decide what role am I playing in this?
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And I think there's a tremendous latitude in that, but I just, the role of grace, the idea of when people just been kind to me, even when I've been wrong, that they just care more about our relationship than they do about winning an argument about something.
00:12:13.160
What has helped me with the people that like creep me out the most is to try to think of what is it that's driving this?
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And oftentimes it's just that they're really insecure.
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Like, uh, how do you respond when you get insecure, uh, in a setting?
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I get like, just, I get so, I start talking really fast and I get funnier and funnier than other people get mean as a rattlesnake.
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You go turtle on that, like head, legs, tail, everything.
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And so that even in our relationships that matter the most to us to just say, how do you deal with that?
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And to say, how are we like, uh, going to react to people?
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What we do is we talk about, uh, how we feel more than what we want.
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Try that for a week to take the people that you love the most and say, don't say, I want to hammer.
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If we could get in touch with how we're feeling about something, I'm not a touchy feely guy, but that has been so helpful in my relationships to just talk about, I'm feeling really insecure right now.
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So let's talk the, let's talk about the difference here between feelings and facts, because we are entering a world now where feelings are all that matters.
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Well, that may be the way you feel, but that may not be reality.
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And I can be kind to you and, and appreciate where you're coming from, but you're not an Eagle.
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Cause when people say, well, let's talk about feelings, that part of that, that, or the abuse of that is where we are falling apart.
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I would say, uh, and maybe another camera angle on this would say, what are the things you're certain about?
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And if we could just say, these are a couple of things that I'm certain about, and these are a couple of things I'm just guessing about, then the things that you're certain about, is it because you are feeling certain about that or that you have a base?
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And you don't do that in, uh, being an antagonist to say, where's that come from?
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Well, my parents told me that, well, that's terrific, but your parents might be flat wrong.
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Um, that's actually a beautiful discussion because you're actually more interested in the person than the position.
00:15:03.160
Um, because if say, well, what's your position on, like, you don't have to swing at every pitch.
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Like when people ask me, somebody called me up, they wanted to know what my position on was, uh, what's my position on wrath?
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Honey, I just haven't even thought about it, but if you want to meet some really weird people, go Google that and make a couple of calls.
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And there's some thing that crept in that probably wasn't true when there was, uh, you know, our forefathers that we need to have a position on everything to say, like, to say what I'm interested in is developing my character.
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I want to be a guy that says something and then does that thing.
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I want to be a person that takes a genuine interest in the people around him.
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That was like lifted right from Paul talking about this young guy named Timothy.
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He takes a genuine interest in the people around it.
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Uh, and so there's something when somebody has a really strong position on whatever big social issue of the day is, then to take a genuine interest then in them, instead of just saying like, well, no, I need to convince you that ain't going to work.
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I mean, I've never lost a case and it's not because I'm an awesome lawyer.
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And so, so there's one of these things that just be a little bit pickier about the conversations that you're having with people.
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And when you see this, say like, you know what?
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I wouldn't trade our friendship for the trajectory of this.
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And I don't, you don't have to work for NASA to know the trajectory of where this is going.
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Um, you'll know that I am disinterested when I start talking about sports.
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But if you know why you're doing, you will not see me very often without wearing a Boston Red Sox hat.
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And, uh, I'm not a Red Sox fan, never even gone to a game, but my neighbor, Carol was a huge Red Sox fan.
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And she, we knew she was going to be in heaven by the end of the weekend.
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I told her, Carol, I'll wear your Red Sox hat for the rest of my life and represent the Sox here on earth.
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But in exchange, every time Jesus walks by you, you need to mention my name.
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When I go through New York, people hiss at me and they just be like, cause they're rooting for the other team, evidently.
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And if they knew that I was wearing my dead neighbor's hat, they would just actually have a different angle on that thing.
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And I don't stop people to tell them the backstory, but I think if I could just assume in people that I don't understand, there's probably mountains of stuff going on there that I don't know about.
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20 years ago, I remember when, I think it was the Bush administration, it was right after 9-11.
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And the White House issued a statement that you have to watch your neighbor and report on your neighbor.
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The thing that we've always been, the one thing unique about America is that we generally trust each other and we generally like each other.
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And we're just like, I don't, you know, you do your thing, I'll do my thing.
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And, you know, we'll meet over the fence and just leave it alone where other countries have been made paranoid because they've gone through times where you couldn't trust neighbor.
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You didn't know who was working for what government or whatever.
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And we've kind of come to this place to where families aren't talking to each other and neighbors and friends and somebody says one thing on Facebook that I believe this and they're defriended and it's awful.
00:19:08.260
Are we, is this just amplified because of social media?
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Maybe just assuming that you don't know what's going on behind the thing.
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You just see the hat and you think it represents something.
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Uh, and then to realize that there's this person underneath the hat and to take a genuine interest in them to say, Hey, tell me about that.
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And say, these are the three things I'm certain about.
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And then instead of challenging that to say like, wow, where did that come from?
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You know, to say, and it's not a deposition because I've taken thousands of those, but to say, just take a genuine interest in that.
00:20:00.980
Uh, not because I read in a book, I'm supposed to be certain about my faith.
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I would say like, no, I'm just certain about it.
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Everything I see validates these suspicions that I had about faith.
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You know, they, on our last day here, we're going to about have room for eight people around our bed.
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Nine if they're thin, but like, say like, I'm certain about my friendship with about eight people that they would be there for me.
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If you could just find out a couple of things that you're certain about, then some of the things that are distracting us won't distract us as much.
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I just go like, I don't know, man, I got these three things that I'm pretty sure of.
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And then to say, I'm guessing about these other things, but it's an informed guess.
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It's informed by knowing that I have certain biases that are coming into that and to try to identify what those are.
00:21:13.000
But what happens sometimes is we avoid all the difficult people and they're not dangerous people.
00:21:20.620
But we're seeing sharks when I see just insecure dolphins, because insecure dolphins, if they're insecure enough, they look like dangerous people.
00:21:29.100
And they're actually, they're just dealing with their own stuff.
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And that isn't this like a soft, like, you know, touchy feely kind of thing.
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But just assume that there's more going on in their life than you would assume.
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I have found, at least with politicians and celebrities, there are a lot like puffer fishes.
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The more insecure they are, the bigger they pop.
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There was apparently there's some TED talk out there.
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I was speaking at some place and there was this woman stretching her hands and they grew up to the ceiling.
00:22:18.120
I'm trying to get small because I don't want to be like this huge presence.
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And I think that idea you can tell people when they're humble, when they enter into conversations, kind of palms up.
00:22:34.760
And the people have all kinds of opinions about you.
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And and that takes a lot of courage to do that.
00:22:41.260
And you need to be willing to be misunderstood.
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Because people are trying to think, well, you're trying to like you're this, you're this, you're this.
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And you can be misunderstood and just like Jesus was misunderstood.
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But would say, like, what if you're just get comfortable with the fact that living our lives will be constantly being misunderstood?
00:23:07.120
It just makes them just either insecure dolphins that look like sharks.
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People that don't know the guy underneath the hat.
00:23:15.200
But in today's world, though, that's really frightening.
00:23:21.800
I mean, I I know people now who are younger, who are starting on the same, you know, kind of, you know, journey that I was on, you know, 15 years ago of just starting to come into the public eye and and they have an opinion.
00:23:36.840
And the first thing I say is, if I could go back and tell myself one thing, and that is always, always be humble with what you say.
00:23:55.540
But other than other than that, people now are starting to come and it's hard to say, oh, yeah, no, go do that.
00:24:10.220
But I always say to them, are you prepared for what it's going to be like?
00:24:18.860
It's and it's happening down to people who are just regular people.
00:24:23.720
You know, I don't know if you saw the Covington story with the kids that were up on the yes.
00:24:30.240
Well, you talked about, you know, you're wearing a hat and somebody misjudges you.
00:24:38.200
Nobody, nobody, nobody even went and watched the whole video.
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That kid's life is now forever changed, forever changed.
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And if he's if he's who I hope he is, think he is, it'll be changed for the good.
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And he will be able to use that and find good things that that can come out of that.
00:25:06.340
They don't want their family to go through that.
00:25:11.440
And that adds to missing out on everything you're supposed to do.
00:25:18.100
And it's and then so what thing that could happen is that we actually, you know, this idea of guarding your heart.
00:25:25.580
That's just it's a beautiful proverb for 23 to guard your heart above all else.
00:25:30.020
But we don't need to lock ourselves inside the vault.
00:25:32.240
And there's some people in whether they're faith communities or other communities that are getting inside the vault and closing the door to say that isn't guarding your heart.
00:25:50.560
And you don't need to be making everybody else's moves.
00:25:55.900
Like my wife famously just tells me that all the time.
00:25:59.360
I'm not trying to be like her and she's not trying to be like me.
00:26:02.980
We're just saying, how could we reflect in this marriage into the world?
00:26:06.940
These beautiful things that we think are going to outlast all of us.
00:26:12.180
When we got married, they said the two will become one.
00:26:23.460
She thinks having me in the room is a lot of people.
00:26:26.580
But there's something beautiful when we try to be like other people or to take on their issues.
00:26:38.080
Or when we try to fix people, like just sort them out.
00:26:41.760
I would say like, dude, you don't have the toolkit for that.
00:26:44.560
Even just trying to, you know, I have found because I do some self-reflection, the biggest mistakes that I have ever made is when I'm trying to convince someone that they're right or wrong or misguided.
00:27:06.600
You know, it's this, and this is need is growing with people.
00:27:16.960
If you can drop the need to win and replace it with the need to listen.
00:27:23.420
When you can do this with kindness, though, to ask probing questions, which is what you do to ask a probing question to say, where does, where does that come from?
00:27:32.640
And you can do that with kindness and say, like, what do you think?
00:27:39.800
What you can do is to say, I'm really, I'm curious about that.
00:27:44.960
Was that something you learned from your parents?
00:27:49.740
Why was that among all the things you could be compelling to you?
00:27:55.600
So this is, I go back to our original question, and maybe I can ask it in a way that you'll answer with more than just, I guess, the facts.
00:28:14.720
I was making my way through this hotel and all this, and I got there.
00:28:19.580
And there's something, well, some people say evolution.
00:28:23.520
I just said, you know, how did I get to this room?
00:28:28.040
Like, in terms of, like, career and track and all that?
00:28:33.540
How did you get to be happy and peaceful and open and California, seemingly without all the weird stuff?
00:28:50.860
The first thing that popped to mind is my grandparents.
00:28:54.320
They were just so big and wonderful in my life.
00:29:00.680
I would go to Disneyland, and they had rock candy there.
00:29:09.180
Every time she saw it, it was like the first time.
00:29:14.920
She's like, and then she'd put one in her mouth, and she'd pretend that she hurt her tooth.
00:29:22.180
And I would just beam with, like, I was that guy that just, she just thought I was so amazing.
00:29:28.640
And I think I learned from them this power of joy.
00:29:32.420
My grandfather was a fireman in San Francisco Bay for 40 years.
00:29:40.600
I don't even know if he knew how to, but he knew how to love people.
00:29:48.460
But I think of this legacy they left behind of, like, I still, I go to Disneyland.
00:29:53.620
I see the rock candy, and I think of my grandmother.
00:30:00.120
You find somebody that's poured into your life some joy and a worldview that's really engaging and very open.
00:30:07.300
And if that consists with, is consistent with who God made you to be, if that's not your thing, like for Maria to be with lots of people is not her thing.
00:30:16.120
But I would say find your space in there and then just delight in that.
00:30:33.680
But I'm imagining that day when this, like, are you, Billy, got any grandkids running around?
00:30:40.460
Well, so when this grandchild takes the first step, you don't say, like, well, I've seen better.
00:30:49.620
And then when they're crawling around, you'd be like, dude, just walk.
00:30:54.320
And so I'm trying to think of those same things in the interactions I have with people to just say they're small.
00:31:00.900
Step 4, you don't need a Bible verse for everything, but there's a beautiful one.
00:31:05.380
It says that God delights in seeing our small beginnings.
00:31:10.960
And so if you've had somebody who's listening and they have an ambition that they've been thinking about, man, take this first step.
00:31:19.280
And I just don't think that the world is grimacing at me.
00:31:22.360
And I don't think it's grimacing at everybody else.
00:31:24.620
You might get that feel from watching a bunch of media.
00:31:27.700
But if you've ever had watched somebody take a picture of someone else, the person taking the picture is smiling.
00:31:38.980
I just think God's smiling, you know, and I think there's some things that pain him tremendously.
00:31:44.260
What I'm trying to do, though, is not to be Jesus's lawyer.
00:31:47.460
I want to be just available to people and hear and curious about that.
00:31:52.200
And then for me, I'm just going to do what I think is right.
00:31:55.960
And that means like starting schools, which still cracks me up because my worst subject in school was school.
00:32:04.100
Every time I want to start another school, I write a book.
00:32:12.740
So tell me, tell me, let's jump here on the work that you're doing.
00:32:18.960
First, anybody who doesn't know, tell the story of Charlie and Kabi.
00:32:26.500
This in Uganda, there's a practice which witchcraft in these witch doctors actually sacrifice little children because they believe the head or blood or private parts have these magical powers.
00:32:38.520
And so in the history of Uganda and nobody's ever taken on a witch doctor because they're afraid of these guys.
00:32:44.660
But right back to our beginning, what would your six?
00:32:49.640
And so there was a little boy that got attacked by the head of all the witch doctors and he actually survived.
00:32:56.520
And so I went to Uganda, their chief justice, let us bring Uganda's first death penalty case.
00:33:03.540
And we tried this case and Kabi goes away to Lazira Maximum Security Prison.
00:33:11.460
A doctor at Cedars-Sinai Medical Center finds out about the boys and he calls me up and he says, Bob, you don't know me.
00:33:19.760
I can fix him like, buddy, you didn't hear what got cut off.
00:33:28.360
And so I drive up there and I meet him and he starts drawing on a napkin like what he's going to do, which is way too much information.
00:33:46.280
And he said, it'd be staggering, but I'll do it for nothing.
00:34:02.440
And we get a text message when we're in London.
00:34:10.800
And this kid that was standing in the bush two days before is now standing in the Oval Office.
00:34:19.220
He's reading the original Emancipation Proclamation.
00:34:25.560
Well, one of the things that we thought in this attack that all of this stuff, because he's essentially a eunuch after the attack.
00:34:32.580
And we thought all of this would this would be the course of his life.
00:34:38.860
I think it's since the time I saw you last took him in for x-rays.
00:34:46.520
And so two weeks ago, we went back to Cedars-Sinai.
00:34:58.500
He's back and forth, back and forth, back and forth.
00:35:03.120
I don't want him to turn into a surfer if he lives in San Diego.
00:35:05.900
I want him to turn into the president in Uganda.
00:35:08.540
But there's something actually kind of beautiful if we're kind of hoping for other people, these things.
00:35:20.280
My problem, though, is I spent my whole life trying to get more and more comfortable and comfortable.
00:35:25.700
People don't seem to understand the power of love as much.
00:35:30.960
And so I'm trying to get less and less comfortable.
00:35:33.380
I got a house and a car and I got all this stuff.
00:35:39.800
But I'm trying to just like dive into a little deeper end with people.
00:35:58.880
Man, there's just a lot of ambiguity surrounding this.
00:36:01.820
But the thing that is really present in my mind is that God isn't dazzled when you go across an ocean.
00:36:08.620
What wows him is when you go across the street.
00:36:13.300
But when love has an agenda, then it didn't love anymore.
00:36:16.840
So sometimes these conversations that we're having with each other, there's an agenda.
00:36:32.960
And you can actually talk maybe more about what you feel than what your position is on all that stuff.
00:36:40.400
I've wanted to be a grandpa since I was in junior high.
00:36:47.420
What if we're the ones that are known for that?
00:36:50.060
Like, these things that might be eccentric, those are the things that actually people remember.
00:36:58.720
Literally, if I put my phone in my left pocket right now to end up in my shoe.
00:37:02.780
And the reason I did it, I cut out my left pockets because it's a reminder to me that our faith, our lives will be the sum of everything we're hanging on to.
00:37:12.300
Right pocket stuff and everything we're willing to let go of.
00:37:15.820
And so I've been trying to move stuff from my right pocket to my left pocket.
00:37:19.720
And it's only 18 inches until Christmas time and pecan pie.
00:37:25.360
But there's this whole idea of constantly moving stuff.
00:37:36.740
What I've been trying to do instead of hanging on to that, I've been trying to move it that 18 inches to the left pocket.
00:37:43.840
I think people, you go find your, if you're listening, go find some scissors.
00:37:47.220
Get your pants off first, but like cut those pockets out.
00:37:51.760
And there's something beautiful that will happen.
00:37:54.140
These little reminders that will remind you of who you are.
00:37:56.900
It's really amazing how, because it takes, it really takes work and not work that anybody sees.
00:38:05.320
You know, like I, I, I, at one point in my life, I was really arrogant.
00:38:14.360
And I, all I did was change my signature and I, I changed, I, I never signed my name with capital letters now.
00:38:29.080
I just did all lowercase and it was amazing because every time I have to sign a check, every time I have to sign anything, it reminds me, you're not all that.
00:38:44.320
Like to, instead of talking to them about career, talk about the character.
00:38:51.320
Who's that young woman that you want to turn into?
00:38:56.860
I'm not going to be 60 here in a couple of weeks.
00:39:05.980
If you see me in a body cast, if I got like 42 and a half, it'll be a little short, but the whole idea of to say to one another, like, tell me about who you're turning into like not.
00:39:17.300
And a lot of us are a job or two behind who we've become because it was a perfect job at the time.
00:39:23.440
Like I was a lawyer, I'm capable of being a lawyer in five or six States.
00:39:29.560
But just because I'm capable of doing it doesn't mean I'm called to do it.
00:39:33.380
And so right now I'm just like, I've got the time.
00:39:37.400
And it's not because I want to be known by people as that guy.
00:39:43.560
But in about a week and a half, I'm going to be a grandpa.
00:39:46.520
And what I saw is my grandparents were available to me.
00:39:50.880
And then we just get to decide, like, just choose the person that you want to be, the man or woman you want to turn into.
00:39:58.860
You said to me, which I think is fascinating when you walked in, you said, Oh, it's been a good season.
00:40:07.400
You talked about, you, you described time as a season, which I find, I find wonderful because I think we all do have seasons and we miss the turning of the leaves.
00:40:23.280
You know, and so we, we, and we just keep going, but no, the seasons are changing.
00:40:30.840
And so it's okay to let go of what you were and what you, what you thought.
00:40:40.380
And I love the idea that, uh, of being a new creation that I've spent like almost 60 long years being old Bob.
00:40:47.940
And but like, I met new Bob like five or six hours ago.
00:40:54.240
So it's really hard in today's world to, when I was, uh, 18, I did the best thing I could do.
00:41:03.500
And I didn't realize it at the time I moved to the other side of the country.
00:41:12.900
Didn't know anybody took a job out in DC, knew nothing about it.
00:41:17.860
Um, kind of a, you know, small town, sheltered kid just took a job.
00:41:25.320
Didn't realize until later when I came back home a few times later, I'm no longer what my
00:41:38.740
And I thought that I was, I had the time to become me.
00:41:48.720
And there are people that are 50 that still are what everyone says they've always been.
00:42:01.200
But we get this stuff on this kind of loop going like little Bobby Goff at eight years
00:42:08.580
He would be like, do anything to just whatever it took to make everybody happy.
00:42:16.740
And even at 60, uh, that little boy, like sometimes shows up on my door, knocks.
00:42:26.660
What makes me feel like I need to, uh, validate, you know, uh, my worth by getting somebody's
00:42:34.280
And it doesn't make me angsty, but it's just worth a little bit of reflection to say, what's
00:42:40.580
And then just update, you know, just like forward the mail to the new address and to
00:42:46.040
say, so now I'm, I don't need to be that little kid anymore.
00:42:49.180
So at least for me, and I've been, and correct where this is wrong or, or guide where,
00:43:22.020
Um, God, my understanding of God, I, one of the three things I know, God, God loves me.
00:43:38.400
I just know he loves me and he is a part of my life and I have access to him that I know
00:43:56.000
Once I believed in God, God changes you to where you have the belief in the power of,
00:44:13.560
Cause I know no matter what happens, it's going to be good.
00:44:17.680
It may not turn out the way I'm wanted or, but I'm okay.
00:44:22.140
People who are really one with God, somebody dies in their life and they might have some
00:44:27.520
sadness, but really the overwhelming feeling is hooray.
00:44:32.100
Hey, what a party is happening now on the other side of the veil.
00:44:39.360
Um, but without God, if you are somebody who you don't have God, how do you balance the,
00:44:51.200
the, the power that I, I have access to universal power?
00:45:03.640
And yet the Judeo Christian, uh, philosophy is, and at the same time, let it all go.
00:45:21.980
How do you, I'm asking, cause you and I are both believers in God.
00:45:31.180
I don't believe in God and I, but I, I want to be there without the God.
00:45:41.020
And really, we're just trying to make our way through this thing.
00:45:44.740
And I know one thing that I reacted to early on is when people tell me what to do, uh,
00:45:54.200
If people don't want to be told what to do, but there's a beautiful verse.
00:45:58.160
It's in a Matthew talks about like, they were asking the same question is like, it's a teacher.
00:46:06.260
And one of the things that he said is don't tell anybody.
00:46:09.780
I love that you would make all the evangelicals be like, wait, what?
00:46:14.440
But the whole idea is show people what you believe.
00:46:17.440
Don't you don't need to tell people what you believe.
00:46:19.160
And so there's something you, if you have a faith, whatever it is, like, I don't know,
00:46:26.160
Galatians five, six says the only thing that matters is faith expressed in love.
00:46:32.320
I just, I don't need to be licking a bunch of return addresses and saying, this is why
00:46:36.780
or what you need to believe, but to just express what you believe in with love.
00:46:40.760
And, uh, for some people, they say, no, that's just like, that's just too cotton candy.
00:46:45.300
I'm like, and I'm down with that, like, uh, but here's the deal that it's working for me.
00:46:50.480
What I'm trying to do is to, uh, the things I'm certain about, uh, in, in my faith, I'm
00:46:56.040
not trying to convince other people of, I don't think the verse that follows that, uh,
00:47:00.800
after saying, don't tell anybody, he said, flesh and blood doesn't reveal it to you,
00:47:05.360
And so when some people say like, how do you believe in God?
00:47:08.020
I go like, it just feels like it was something that it just clicked.
00:47:12.800
It wasn't like a guy looking for the life raft.
00:47:18.480
I'm not that guy actually found a Bible in the back of a bus when I was in high school
00:47:28.160
And I'm looking through all these, you know, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, like same story.
00:47:40.380
So, and it was like that, uh, the whole idea of living grateful lives that, you know, 10
00:47:50.160
And Jesus's words, like, where's the other nine?
00:47:52.620
And I've just, I want to be the one guy that comes back to just say, thank you to the people
00:47:57.980
in my life that teachers that have impacted me, uh, people that have done acts of kindness
00:48:04.500
If we can live these kinds of grateful lives and that isn't cotton candy, that's real life
00:48:11.580
I want to be known to my friends as the guy that says, thank you.
00:48:16.020
Best, best spiritual day I've had with a group of people was with a group of preachers, all
00:48:27.580
Started the day with them being a little standoffish with each other because they were all in the
00:48:32.880
same community, but all from different churches.
00:48:35.080
And, um, they had never gotten together before and we spent the day serving by the end of
00:48:43.560
the day, they were great friends and they were talking, they were laughing about your sheep
00:48:51.340
You're going to steal my sheep, blah, blah, blah.
00:49:00.560
We, we, we, we, we bring our people together in these separate buildings and we stay inside
00:49:10.160
every Sunday when this is the best church I've attended in forever.
00:49:35.920
One of the things that realized that we actually are the church.
00:49:38.960
I was talking to a guy and said, I'm so mad at the church.
00:49:45.380
And that whole idea to like you and I, you know, together two or more are gathered, say
00:49:53.160
And then I'd love that they gather and some people wave their arms and some people wear
00:49:57.240
cloaks and I'll be like, whatever it is that lights you up.
00:50:00.960
But to just be curious about that, just to be curious rather than critical or to say that,
00:50:06.040
you know, we've got something that you don't have and all that to say that was what Jesus
00:50:12.380
Everybody thought they had something figured out.
00:50:14.400
And I think that's why eternity is going to take so long.
00:50:17.160
It's going to be this revealing used to think this, but it was really that this, these people
00:50:24.960
And you guys are saying that I think is we're going to be spending a lot of time unlearning
00:50:30.360
a lot of the things that we thought we were positive about.
00:50:35.420
So I want to get like a headstart on that one and to realize for the people listening,
00:50:40.980
wherever they are in faith, just realize what you've got.
00:50:43.700
I tried a case and the person that won, they got a cashier check at the end of the day
00:50:49.140
for $1 million and they put it in their pocket.
00:50:53.100
They went golfing and they were out there golfing.
00:50:55.860
The president of the bank started calling and they're like busy golfing.
00:51:00.220
They call about 10 times and he finally gets through.
00:51:17.840
But that idea to realize we don't know what we got in our pocket and for people to realize
00:51:24.180
the value that they have and that the, the validity of the things that they, that they
00:51:29.740
have loved and they've been a little hesitant to express love or gratitude.
00:51:36.480
They literally don't carry it around your pocket.
00:51:38.440
Open that thing up and say, like, I actually have a tremendous amount of, of love and gratitude
00:51:55.640
And I, I think if we could have authentic conversations with each other about what do you want?
00:52:01.580
Uh, the first thing they'd hear from me is I go on to be a grandpa and then they'd celebrate
00:52:08.100
And if somebody said we really want is to make the major leagues, I want to be a pitcher
00:52:12.140
for insert here, whoever it is, they'd be, they wouldn't be disappointed at them because
00:52:20.380
They would just be delighted as they made those small steps, those first steps towards it.
00:52:24.680
They'd say, don't despise these small beginnings.
00:52:27.180
And I think people that live lives with gratitude and are tremendously curious, get there.
00:52:35.100
Like I bet I send myself every day, 150 emails, just things I'm thinking about.
00:52:41.180
Like I actually read that we're going through earth, me and you right now, Glenn, we're moving
00:52:49.000
If you ever had a day, you didn't think you were getting much done.
00:52:51.740
You're making moves, but to just be curious about like what's going on around you and
00:53:01.740
So I think the, the lesson that, uh, we sometimes miss is when Christ says, come to me as little
00:53:12.660
children that once we stop being curious, once we start, when you're, there's a great
00:53:21.080
line in the movie glass that has just come out.
00:53:23.860
And, um, uh, it's about this guy who is one guy is schizophrenic.
00:53:34.560
And he says to the guy who's schizophrenic to one of the, one of his personalities, which
00:53:40.720
is nine, he said, uh, you don't realize how special you are now saying that to a schizophrenic.
00:53:56.220
You will forever see the world as, as it really is.
00:54:09.120
I think when you stop being curious, when you stop seeking, when you start saying, no,
00:54:24.140
And I think when you just said it's forever learning through eternity.
00:54:28.280
I think the Lord is telling us, come to me as a child, because we have built up 50 years,
00:54:39.420
70 years, a hundred years of, no, it's like this.
00:54:44.720
And if we are set in that old mindset, which has just now cemented everything that's true,
00:54:56.220
So when we get to the other side, if he's like, I don't know if he's a woman and, uh,
00:55:05.060
and, and, and, and half, you know, half giraffe, I'm not expecting that.
00:55:14.540
And coming to him as a child, a child would say, you got those like knobby things on your
00:55:20.680
head, like a giraffe, you kind of look like a giraffe in a dress where we would say, you're
00:55:38.480
I mean, there's, there's, uh, some scriptures out there.
00:55:44.220
I, what I've been trying to do is surround myself, not with smart people, but with wise
00:55:49.860
Cause smart people are a dime a dozen wise people.
00:55:57.360
They're curious about their friends or curious about their character.
00:56:00.160
Did you know a banana is a berry and a strawberry isn't mind blown.
00:56:06.220
And, but that whole idea to just be curious about things, say, look, what does that have
00:56:11.440
I'd say everything because people that are curious about what's going on will be curious
00:56:16.300
about people that are hurting and to say, is there any way it can get some skin or they'll
00:56:21.000
be curious about somebody who's really affluent to say, I wonder how life is working to know
00:56:26.280
a judgment, but to just say, Hey, I think that's terrific.
00:56:31.560
Like, I wonder what your next big step will be.
00:56:34.040
I heard somebody say the other day, you know, searching for God.
00:56:43.240
And I'm sitting in church and somebody is talking and they said, you'll find God in
00:56:52.820
And it kind of goes back to what you were talking about earlier about you're pretty
00:57:00.920
That's actually, and it's not our, it's not our suffering.
00:57:03.760
I mean, he may be there in the midst of our human suffering too, but, but we really want
00:57:12.580
And you'll find him there for you and your suffering.
00:57:16.880
It's weird how you get more out of helping others.
00:57:21.040
It's almost like you can't use it to help yourself.
00:57:24.260
When you're helping others, it all of a sudden helps you.
00:57:28.260
So the plan is instead of when you take all of the focus off of yourself and just to say
00:57:33.620
small or big, whatever it is that you're doing, then you start, you aren't just looking for
00:57:40.860
The plan I was actually, it was before the invasion that liberated Mosul and, and there,
00:57:48.580
all the Peshmerga army had surrounded the city.
00:57:51.400
And I, I went with a whole bunch of metals and we just started putting metals on the
00:57:59.700
I just want to let them know I was grateful for what they were doing that in their war.
00:58:04.100
That's like somebody else's, but they really said like, I'm actually going to do this thing.
00:58:08.980
And that person that's like heading up this whole deal is that you want to see what our
00:58:16.680
It's when we go inside this tent, I think there's going to be satellite images and all that stuff.
00:58:23.640
It was six by eight feet and there's a little green army men.
00:58:32.040
And I think when people are saying like, God, what's the plan for my life?
00:58:36.380
Matthew 25, it says, I was hungry and you fed me.
00:58:39.640
I was thirsty and he gave me something to drink.
00:58:50.960
So what I'm trying to do is not necessarily across the street or across the ocean, but
00:58:56.460
across the street to say, is there somebody that has a need that I can help with?
00:59:01.280
And there's something beautiful and you don't need to make a hoodie every time you meet somebody's
00:59:06.060
I have a neighbor as this like huge restaurant chain all over the place.
00:59:10.100
And he takes out the neighbor's garbage on Monday.
00:59:13.440
That was really hard for me because I don't know.
00:59:16.720
I'm better at giving many people are better at doing things for people than receiving
00:59:21.560
That was really difficult until about the fifth year that he kept doing that and he would
00:59:30.480
And he's the big CEO guy, but he knows how to love his neighbor.
00:59:41.060
And that's those things that, that seem to last those things that are just beautiful.
00:59:46.440
They're the simplest stories that just are heartwarming.
01:00:11.060
Because you have to get on an airplane, go someplace else.
01:00:13.600
We have to end this, but I want to ask, leave with this, explain this one thing.
01:00:23.200
Alcoholics say one day at a time, but you say, I'm trying to be more like Christ 30 seconds
01:00:33.920
Just in the way that we encounter people, the way that you interact with people.
01:00:39.080
Like I've heard somebody say, I'm going to follow Jesus forever.
01:00:42.160
I'm like, dude, I'm just trying to do it for the next 30 seconds.
01:00:47.000
I had a person ask me, I was speaking somewhere and they said, are you a friend of Bill W's?
01:00:57.260
It was just, I think perhaps maybe something I said reminded them of, you know, the steps
01:01:03.760
And it was just such a kind way instead of saying, are you in recovery?
01:01:10.780
Because if I was in recovery, I would know who he was.
01:01:14.320
And I would say that's just such a beautiful example of treating people with kindness and
01:01:20.500
Because if there was something big, they didn't T-bone me with that.
01:01:28.700
They didn't go into this big, long explanation.
01:01:34.180
Like the, the, the, the words have that much power to them, but they're kind words.
01:01:45.540
I mean, witch doctors who kill kids, you will never be seen again ever.
01:01:49.980
But that idea to say to the same witch doctors, uh, if you guys need to learn how to read
01:01:57.180
and write, I'll start your school and we don't teach them how to be witch doctors.
01:02:00.880
They already know where we teach them how to read and write.
01:02:03.460
And there's something beautiful about, it'll be that quarter of a twist.
01:02:07.200
And that's the 30 seconds at a time, this idea to encounter people, assume that there's a
01:02:13.340
guy underneath the hat and there's a reason why he's doing what he's doing.
01:02:16.760
Whether he's mean as a rattlesnake or really kind or weepy or that there's a thing going
01:02:23.380
on and to take the time to find out who they are a little bit, you don't have to psychoanalyze
01:02:28.500
them, but to just assume I, you know, you and I have met a couple of times.
01:02:32.540
I just assume you're a guy that loves people and that you've had some really good days and
01:02:36.960
a couple of bad ones and that you've had some things that you're hoping for.
01:02:40.460
And a couple of things have been very shattering as have I, uh, yet here we are sitting at a
01:02:47.480
We're sharing some time, no agenda, just love each other and be fully present.
01:03:02.540
Just a reminder, I'd love you to rate and subscribe to the podcast and pass this on to a friend