The Glenn Beck Program - November 22, 2025


Ep 275 ｜ Cracker Barrel CEO Finally Addresses ‘Woke’ Rebrand Controversy ｜ The Glenn Beck Podcast    


Episode Stats

Length

38 minutes

Words per Minute

170.98392

Word Count

6,603

Sentence Count

618

Misogynist Sentences

5

Hate Speech Sentences

3


Summary


Transcript

00:00:00.000 And now, a Blaze Media Podcast.
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00:00:43.220 Rate, review, share. Together, we'll make a difference.
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00:00:51.400 This is probably very unfair to ask you.
00:00:55.060 We'll see.
00:00:55.700 Um, were you surprised you weren't fired?
00:01:02.720 Um.
00:01:05.580 It was summer of 2025 when Cracker Barrel announced that they were going to go do something different.
00:01:14.200 And they were going to have a makeover.
00:01:16.360 New logo. No nice old man, no Cracker Barrel, just Cracker Barrel.
00:01:20.840 Any other time in American history might not have been a big deal.
00:01:24.560 But it became a big deal, and it was, uh, it was one of the biggest, dumbest moves, honestly, that I've, I've seen in my life of a corporation.
00:01:36.480 Because people felt like something that they held onto and cherished and loved was under attack.
00:01:44.060 Was that the intent?
00:01:48.760 Who, who are the people that made the decision?
00:01:52.860 What have they done to reverse the decision?
00:01:56.920 And quite honestly, I heard from, I heard from the guy who picked me up at the airport.
00:02:02.540 I heard from one of the guys who was handling the baggage at the airport.
00:02:06.860 He said, what are you here for?
00:02:08.680 I said, I'm going to meet with the head of Cracker Barrel.
00:02:12.020 And he said, give her hell.
00:02:14.520 The driver said, I don't know what they were thinking.
00:02:18.480 But tell them we didn't like it.
00:02:22.220 What you're going to hear in the podcast today is my conversation with two people.
00:02:26.700 So, the CEO and the senior vice president.
00:02:30.560 The senior vice president was brought in to fix the problems.
00:02:35.260 There are parts of it that are very uncomfortable.
00:02:37.480 Parts of it are that, honestly, the usual blah, blah, blah PR stuff that you get.
00:02:42.860 Well rehearsed, quite honestly.
00:02:45.600 Because the last time the CEO was on television, she was on ABC, Good Morning America.
00:02:52.800 And it did not go well.
00:02:54.880 So, this is her first television interview since.
00:02:59.860 I don't know if they thought I would go easy on them, but I didn't.
00:03:05.620 But I'm anxious to hear your thoughts.
00:03:08.220 Especially if you're watching and not just listening.
00:03:11.300 Because there is one moment that I think changed everything.
00:03:16.140 At least for me.
00:03:17.740 See if you see it or sense it.
00:03:19.560 We have on today's podcast the senior vice president of Cracker Barrel Store Operations, Doug Hizell.
00:03:28.860 And the CEO, Julie Messina.
00:03:33.100 As we came out of COVID, A, trying to hire 50,000 people back.
00:03:37.540 We got a lot of our employees original back.
00:03:40.900 But we lost a lot of very long tenured employees.
00:03:44.680 A lot of them a little bit older and scared to come back into the environment.
00:03:49.760 And so...
00:03:50.540 That's a lot of institutional knowledge to us.
00:03:53.360 It hurt.
00:03:53.920 It really hurt.
00:03:55.000 And in 22, as we started opening back up, we had that new menu that we had.
00:03:59.660 So, we lost all the people.
00:04:00.780 We put a ton of training into that new menu.
00:04:02.520 Now, we're coming back trying to open up.
00:04:04.780 We're trying to get guests any way we can get them.
00:04:07.660 Like, it is...
00:04:08.500 We had patio dining.
00:04:10.760 We had...
00:04:11.280 We were testing a rock garden dining.
00:04:13.080 Like, they were going to sit out in the landscape.
00:04:16.080 And I always say that COVID even made Cracker Barrel start drinking alcohol.
00:04:23.120 Because that's how it happened.
00:04:24.580 Like, it was out of COVID that it was like, how are we figuring out how to drive top-line sales and try to get, you know, a guest in?
00:04:32.480 And is this something that we could potentially do?
00:04:34.240 Okay.
00:04:34.460 So, that is a good example of...
00:04:37.080 You don't know any of the story.
00:04:39.260 Yeah.
00:04:39.860 You think Cracker Barrel's never served alcohol before.
00:04:43.260 Why are you shoving alcohol?
00:04:44.440 That's a cultural...
00:04:46.000 And so, it's easy to think, you're selling people alcohol now.
00:04:50.920 What other values are you?
00:04:52.540 You know what I mean?
00:04:53.120 That's fair.
00:04:54.000 And I think it's...
00:04:54.840 Yeah.
00:04:55.220 It's at least...
00:04:55.860 That one is at least understandable.
00:04:57.480 Yeah.
00:04:58.260 And so...
00:04:58.660 Now that you understand the story.
00:04:59.720 Yeah.
00:05:00.080 Exactly.
00:05:00.760 And so, you know, as we got into 23, I came out of my ops administration role and came into operations.
00:05:09.400 And I was leading field operations.
00:05:12.140 The best way for me to describe it is we were throwing Velcro balls at a wall to see what would stick.
00:05:17.820 It was like, how can we get people in and not just guests, staff.
00:05:22.700 Like, it was...
00:05:23.320 Yeah.
00:05:23.760 I can tell you many stories of us sending SWAT teams into areas to just find people to work.
00:05:29.080 We couldn't open the doors because we only had four or five employees.
00:05:31.180 It takes a lot of people to run a car rental.
00:05:34.200 Like, I mean, you were...
00:05:34.980 How many do you think we're here right now?
00:05:36.000 How many people do you think we're...
00:05:37.040 And this is not...
00:05:37.600 This is normal Saturday.
00:05:38.640 We didn't add anybody.
00:05:39.200 I can't tell because I don't know, but...
00:05:42.180 50?
00:05:43.680 52.
00:05:44.360 50?
00:05:44.760 Yeah.
00:05:45.120 52.
00:05:45.880 There's a lot on the line.
00:05:47.340 Yeah.
00:05:47.880 And each store has about...
00:05:49.200 Average is about 100 employees.
00:05:50.980 Our volume stores like this in the legacy market is 130 to 150.
00:05:54.840 That's total.
00:05:55.680 Total.
00:05:56.040 And 50 at a time.
00:05:56.920 Yeah.
00:05:57.100 And so it was hard.
00:05:59.340 I mean, we were struggling to get staff.
00:06:01.660 We were struggling to get guests in.
00:06:02.920 We were struggling with the new menu.
00:06:05.560 And so when Julie came in, she never said it to me, but if I was her, she was probably
00:06:10.620 looking at us like, wow, we are a bit in shambles.
00:06:15.300 And we were.
00:06:16.120 I mean, we were, like I said, we were throwing Velcro balls at the wall.
00:06:18.660 We put menu items on that we thought would drive a new guest.
00:06:21.740 We added complexity.
00:06:22.940 We didn't start with the kitchen and let's make the heart of the house the kitchen that
00:06:29.600 can deliver the menu.
00:06:30.660 We started with the menu in 2019.
00:06:33.260 And so I think I've mentioned to you on the line, it's a mirrored steam line.
00:06:37.040 Yeah, yeah.
00:06:37.380 And it's basically the kitchen is cut in half and you can operate the menu off of that one
00:06:41.080 steam line.
00:06:41.960 And the menu that we had in 19, it needed fryer stations.
00:06:46.020 It needed a whole different setup.
00:06:47.740 And unfortunately, we went after the menu first and not the kitchen, which impacted our
00:06:53.660 employee experience.
00:06:55.100 Yeah.
00:06:55.600 So it was tough.
00:06:56.480 So food quality, I would say service too.
00:07:00.460 Some of our service opportunities has been just trying to get back up.
00:07:04.140 The Janice's of the world have been here 35 years.
00:07:06.400 We lost a lot of tenure, especially on our second shift.
00:07:10.580 We've got some younger servers that are coming on, never served before.
00:07:14.060 And so we had to revitalize our training program and just a lot of new things that we frankly,
00:07:18.880 with a 56 year brand, had never dealt with before.
00:07:22.280 And we lost sight.
00:07:23.920 I mean, we were focused on going to take care of something instead of the base foundation.
00:07:29.100 And frankly, we built a house on sand.
00:07:33.220 The average person is finding it difficult to pay expenses every month.
00:07:36.980 And in most cases, there's nothing left over to cover any extras.
00:07:40.720 You feel like that?
00:07:42.120 Most are not getting a big raise.
00:07:43.560 Expenses are up.
00:07:44.520 It's very hard to manage without grabbing for credit cards.
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00:08:31.880 So when you came in, where was the company?
00:08:38.600 That's the problem with eating and talking.
00:08:40.160 I know, sorry.
00:08:41.140 No, no.
00:08:42.480 Don't apologize.
00:08:43.380 We're happy you're here.
00:08:45.520 Look, the company had not been performing.
00:08:49.700 At that point in time, probably, I don't know, five or six years of TSR decline.
00:08:54.660 Traffic had been down for...
00:08:56.240 TSR.
00:08:56.760 Oh, sorry.
00:08:57.180 Total shareholder return.
00:08:58.180 Okay.
00:08:59.100 Sorry.
00:08:59.780 That's all right.
00:09:00.340 That's all right.
00:09:01.900 Turned my business head off.
00:09:03.320 Turned my guest head back on.
00:09:06.240 So our shareholders weren't happy.
00:09:08.960 We didn't have as many guests as we had been.
00:09:11.900 This is a business of...
00:09:14.360 I mean, you can see right now, I'm looking around.
00:09:16.280 It's a lot of people.
00:09:17.400 It's a lot of people taking care of a lot of people, right?
00:09:19.620 We have a low check in the industry.
00:09:22.340 Our average check is $15.
00:09:23.640 You look at even our competitors, like a Denny's or like an IHOP, somebody like that, $18.
00:09:29.560 Look at people like Chili's and Longhorn and Texas Roadhouse, $27.
00:09:34.540 So for us to maintain that value, we need a lot of throughput.
00:09:39.400 So if we count on a lot of people at a lower check, we're about abundance.
00:09:43.320 Like, look at your plate.
00:09:44.160 I know.
00:09:44.580 Look at my plate.
00:09:45.380 Our guests tell us abundance at a fair price.
00:09:48.720 Right.
00:09:48.960 That's what they want.
00:09:50.460 So we had been losing guests, as Doug described, since probably, what, 2018?
00:09:56.580 17, 18 is where the client started.
00:09:59.460 So I was tasked with how do we create change in that?
00:10:03.620 How do we get more people in?
00:10:04.880 The people who love us.
00:10:05.860 This is always about, like, how do we keep our core guests and make them happy?
00:10:10.060 Right.
00:10:10.500 Delight them and just get more people to love Cracker Barrel the way they do.
00:10:13.500 So started in 2017, 2018?
00:10:18.320 2017, 18, it was menu change.
00:10:19.500 What was the thought at that time?
00:10:21.460 What were you thinking should be done at that time?
00:10:25.280 You just didn't know what was causing it?
00:10:27.180 Yeah.
00:10:27.920 Well, one, I was in operations admin, so I wasn't close to the strategy or culinary piece.
00:10:33.500 So I'm kind of receiving the information.
00:10:35.780 But, frankly, it was about how do we create new menu offerings that will attract a new guest.
00:10:42.320 That was everything about 2017, 18 was that.
00:10:46.040 In particular, it's dinner day part.
00:10:47.800 So breakfast, we are very strong.
00:10:49.780 Yeah, yeah.
00:10:50.080 At dinner, we've got the competition expands.
00:10:52.920 Right, right.
00:10:53.240 And we're trying to figure out, you know, what are those things that are going to bring the guests in?
00:10:56.460 And Southern Fried Chicken was, it was kind of the anchor.
00:10:59.540 That's where we thought we could potentially see an impact.
00:11:02.340 But I don't think we realized the complexity it put on the kitchen.
00:11:06.720 Yeah, yeah.
00:11:07.220 And then, like, literally right after we rolled it, going to COVID.
00:11:11.400 And think about how many more choices guests have today, right?
00:11:14.900 I mean, even just from 2018 to today, brands that weren't around, you know.
00:11:20.820 I say it all the time when you think about it.
00:11:23.120 Like, Cracker Barrel was founded in 1969.
00:11:25.340 Like, there weren't a lot of brands at that point in time.
00:11:28.720 There wasn't a lot of competition.
00:11:30.260 McDonald's wasn't even big.
00:11:31.240 But, like, those things weren't around.
00:11:34.060 And now, look, today, you drive down this road, you drive that way.
00:11:38.160 Like, every brand, every competitor is here.
00:11:41.180 But you don't, I don't know.
00:11:45.300 When you said, you know, some of your competitors, Denny's, that doesn't seem right to me.
00:11:53.100 Denny's seems like an old brand.
00:11:55.780 You know what I mean?
00:11:56.220 And Cracker Barrel is not, I don't know why.
00:11:59.820 To me, it doesn't seem like an old brand.
00:12:01.240 It seems like a brand you know.
00:12:03.320 But it doesn't seem old and dusty.
00:12:05.600 And I think, I think that's what, well, you tell me.
00:12:09.700 The industry classifies us with that.
00:12:12.920 Yeah, yeah, I know, I know.
00:12:14.960 But I don't think people do.
00:12:16.620 But the industry might.
00:12:18.680 The, when did you hire the consultants to come in?
00:12:25.280 Well, I think you all have had consultants in over the years, but.
00:12:28.460 The consultants.
00:12:29.360 Yeah.
00:12:30.280 So, when I got here, part of what I was tasked with was changing the trajectory, right?
00:12:35.380 And so, we really dug in first on where were our opportunities?
00:12:41.560 What could we do better?
00:12:42.940 Food and experience was one that raised to the top.
00:12:45.660 We were not winning in that space.
00:12:47.440 But there were other things that we needed to do as well.
00:12:50.680 And that's when we brought in some consultants who helped us dig into our data, look at competitive
00:12:55.200 data, look at people who used to come to us who don't come to us anymore, people who
00:12:59.860 come to us, like, what's the magic there?
00:13:02.280 How do we do more of that?
00:13:03.960 And people who've never even thought to come to Cracker Barrel.
00:13:06.180 What do they think about Cracker Barrel?
00:13:07.740 So, really looking at all of those things to really say, how do we improve our food and
00:13:12.860 experience?
00:13:13.740 Because Doug is right.
00:13:14.760 One of the first things that we really tackled, and that was one of our biggest problems,
00:13:18.520 is we were losing people at dinner.
00:13:20.680 And dinner is an important day part for us because, believe it or not, we actually,
00:13:26.100 your check is a little bit higher at dinner.
00:13:27.840 Yeah, sure it is.
00:13:28.420 Than breakfast.
00:13:28.940 Yeah, yeah.
00:13:29.200 And so, that's important.
00:13:30.260 When we don't have that traffic.
00:13:31.800 Yeah, yeah.
00:13:32.120 That changes everything.
00:13:33.160 Yeah.
00:13:33.500 Yeah.
00:13:33.820 So, we really started there.
00:13:35.440 But we actually started at the other end of it, which was early dine.
00:13:39.080 And so, we put early dine specials out for our guests because we'd heard, like, that
00:13:42.460 was important to them.
00:13:43.380 So, $8.99, come in, you get meatloaf, home fried chicken, all of that stuff.
00:13:48.000 Um, really just listening and making sure that we had the things that people wanted so that
00:13:53.220 they would choose us.
00:13:55.540 Um, let's just get it, let's just get this out.
00:14:02.360 Okay.
00:14:02.680 What happened, the choices that were made, I said on day one of this, I remember when
00:14:13.940 they rolled out New Coke and I thought that was the dumbest marketing move, the dumbest
00:14:20.980 thing I've ever seen.
00:14:21.820 Um, we're taking the original formula and ditching it and let's start over with a brand
00:14:28.380 that people love.
00:14:30.940 The day this broke, I said on the air, welcome to New Coke.
00:14:36.860 That's what this is.
00:14:38.020 Um, and it was, no offense, stupid, just stupid from start to finish.
00:14:45.620 Um, can you walk me through how that happened?
00:14:50.600 Yeah, sure.
00:14:52.540 Look, our guests have a right to be upset.
00:14:54.360 I feel it in you when you're, when you're, when you're saying that they have a right to
00:14:57.720 be upset.
00:14:58.120 We, we messed up.
00:14:59.600 The intent was not ideological.
00:15:02.260 It was not to put the old version of Cracker Barrel in a box.
00:15:05.800 That was not the intent whatsoever.
00:15:07.900 The, the logo was one piece of a system.
00:15:11.540 The old timer was never going anywhere.
00:15:13.260 That's why actually, when we said, okay, okay, we hear you.
00:15:16.280 Like it's because he was never going anywhere.
00:15:18.220 When you, when you walk out of here, there's a big sign over there by the side of the freeway.
00:15:22.920 Yeah.
00:15:23.460 Huge, bigger than this booth.
00:15:24.820 Right.
00:15:25.300 We were never taking those down.
00:15:26.900 That's so expensive.
00:15:27.780 And they're, and they're beautiful.
00:15:29.160 People love them.
00:15:29.900 It's a beacon to the weary traveler from the interstate.
00:15:32.940 The, the day we rolled that, we brought Uncle Herschel's, uh, menu item back to the menu,
00:15:38.060 which our guests have been asking for for like 10 years.
00:15:40.340 It was like, it was just so unfortunate that we, it, it, it, but I get it.
00:15:44.900 Like what we didn't see in the data, again, it was one piece of what we were doing, but
00:15:50.720 what we didn't see in the data was that the way people see themselves in the logo.
00:15:55.300 So when the old timer and when the barrel were gone, it was like we had taken them out
00:16:01.140 of it and that we weren't valuing what they valued.
00:16:03.360 And we've heard that loud and clear since we did that.
00:16:05.660 And I'm, I'm sorry.
00:16:06.640 Like I really regret that that was not the intention we were trying to make it think
00:16:10.920 about your phone.
00:16:12.240 You, you know, your logo has to be this big to fit on there.
00:16:15.220 We were trying to simplify it because honestly, we got a guy, we got a barrel, we got a lot
00:16:19.780 of stuff going on.
00:16:20.440 I have to tell you, do I have the logo?
00:16:23.100 I think I have the logos.
00:16:23.980 Yeah.
00:16:24.380 Yeah.
00:16:25.280 To me, I'm not upset.
00:16:28.020 I don't care.
00:16:29.340 Okay.
00:16:30.260 I mean, that is a very busy logo.
00:16:32.880 Yeah.
00:16:33.200 This is a more modern logo.
00:16:34.420 I don't think it was about the logos.
00:16:37.140 I don't think it wasn't.
00:16:38.120 It wasn't.
00:16:38.800 So what was, what, what's, what was America saying to you?
00:16:45.600 Yeah.
00:16:45.880 They were saying our values, our traditions, that's what Cracker Barrel represents to us.
00:16:53.300 The story, look around, the story of America is on the walls.
00:16:56.820 Yes.
00:16:57.560 And they thought when we did that, that we were saying that we didn't care about that.
00:17:02.040 And that's not, that was not the intent.
00:17:04.420 And we are so, I'm so sorry for the misunderstanding.
00:17:07.800 I regret it.
00:17:08.820 I don't want people to be mad at us.
00:17:10.340 My job is to make people love Cracker Barrel.
00:17:12.000 Right.
00:17:12.320 Not be mad at Cracker Barrel.
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00:19:18.820 Preborn.com slash Glenn.
00:19:20.640 Rinse takes your laundry and hand delivers it to your door, expertly cleaned and folded.
00:19:26.920 So you could take the time once spent folding and sorting and waiting to finally pursue a
00:19:31.380 whole new version of you.
00:19:32.960 Like tea time you.
00:19:34.920 Mmm.
00:19:35.760 Or this tea time you.
00:19:38.300 Or even this tea time you.
00:19:40.860 So did you hear about Dave?
00:19:42.060 Or even tea time, tea time, tea time you.
00:19:44.980 Mmm.
00:19:45.980 So update on Dave.
00:19:47.960 It's up to you.
00:19:49.000 We'll take the laundry.
00:19:49.880 Rinse.
00:19:51.080 It's time to be great.
00:19:52.920 What was, A, the thinking of the remodeling and was it ever intended to get rid of all
00:20:00.540 of this?
00:20:02.000 Because it seemed very sterile compared to this.
00:20:06.280 I'm glad he asked.
00:20:07.500 Yeah.
00:20:08.620 I think a lot of people think that Doug and me and other people sit around and are like,
00:20:12.840 let's remodel Cracker Barrel.
00:20:14.600 Nothing could be further from the truth.
00:20:16.980 The notion for some of that truly came out of a lot of the work that we were doing on
00:20:22.180 how do we improve food and experience.
00:20:24.260 When we were talking to our guests, they said, stores could be a little bit more comfortable.
00:20:28.860 They're real dark.
00:20:29.860 I can't read the menu.
00:20:32.640 Seats are real hard.
00:20:33.500 Seats are real hard.
00:20:34.620 Tell them your Memphis store.
00:20:36.900 You'll love this.
00:20:37.640 Maybe not.
00:20:38.240 I don't know.
00:20:39.020 We were in store.
00:20:40.280 I had maybe been here a hot minute, like two or three months, like, yeah, two or three
00:20:43.460 months.
00:20:43.780 And we were out in Memphis, one of our older stores.
00:20:48.580 And we were, we were talking to the team and we were, and I, we were working and I literally
00:20:52.500 saw this man walk in with a stadium cushion.
00:20:55.860 Now I've only been here a couple of months.
00:20:57.560 I'm like, what is going on?
00:20:59.620 And in my mind, I'm going, it happens all the time.
00:21:03.200 But like there, I've seen them all over the country carrying stadium cushions.
00:21:05.860 And I'm like, I've literally stopped in my tracks.
00:21:06.840 I'm watching this man with a stadium cushion.
00:21:09.220 And I'm like, I gotta go talk to him.
00:21:11.160 So I waited until he got his food and of course interrupted him while he was eating.
00:21:14.300 But I said, sir, I, I've just got to understand.
00:21:19.160 Did you just have surgery?
00:21:20.840 Yeah, are you okay?
00:21:21.380 Yeah, right.
00:21:23.280 And, and he said, I love your food.
00:21:26.140 I love it here, but your chairs are so uncomfortable.
00:21:28.180 And he's like, oh yeah, this happens all the time.
00:21:33.600 And I'm like, wait, what?
00:21:35.540 This happens all the time.
00:21:36.480 And like, we haven't done anything about it.
00:21:39.180 Literally Glenn, I was having breakfast with my nephew and his girlfriend, not four weeks
00:21:44.760 ago on Charlotte, Charlotte Pike that way, uh, in a store.
00:21:48.860 And we were sitting in one of the window seats and gosh darn it didn't happen again.
00:21:53.380 A guy gets out of his pickup truck, nine o'clock on a Saturday morning with a stadium cushion
00:21:57.540 and starts walking in.
00:21:58.580 I'm like, look at my husband, my dad.
00:22:00.200 I'm like, what's happening?
00:22:02.240 And, and that's really where it all started is how do we make the stores more comfortable?
00:22:05.920 We also heard from our guests that that's why they weren't coming as much for dinner because
00:22:10.140 they want to sit in something like this.
00:22:12.080 You are sitting in the second booth ever in a cracker room.
00:22:15.580 Oh, you're kidding.
00:22:16.180 It's the second one.
00:22:17.640 And the reason this corner is kind of like this is because the first one is over there
00:22:22.240 in the corner and it was a square, it was a square table and we have a group that comes
00:22:27.100 in for a Bible study three times a week and they couldn't get around the corner.
00:22:30.600 They call themselves the corner crew now because they, they helped us learn, uh, that we needed
00:22:36.980 to do this.
00:22:37.460 So the remodels have been a test unlearned project.
00:22:39.920 How do we get the right balance of investment, of comfort, of nostalgia, of the tradition
00:22:47.320 that everybody knows and loves here, but in a way that's easy for our teams to take care
00:22:51.780 of?
00:22:52.220 It's also hard to clean some of these things.
00:22:54.740 Oh, I bet.
00:22:55.320 So how do, how do we make sure that we, we do all of those things while keeping the
00:22:59.220 stories and the traditions and the things that people love about cracker and the feeling
00:23:03.000 for me, it's like the feeling when you come in and the fire's going and yeah, you know,
00:23:07.060 um, so that's really, I will tell you, this is, this is very different than the, the drawings
00:23:12.740 or the, the, that we saw.
00:23:14.300 And so there were only four of those.
00:23:15.400 There were only four of those.
00:23:16.620 And so, and they were, again, we've got all different levels of kind of testing and learning
00:23:20.620 that we were doing.
00:23:21.240 And that was out there.
00:23:22.320 Are these corporately owned or are these franchises?
00:23:24.540 We own them all.
00:23:25.500 We own them all.
00:23:26.280 The thing I thought people were going to not like about that is that store has so many
00:23:30.140 booths.
00:23:30.700 Like we actually took out because people have been loving the soft seating in the remodels that we've
00:23:35.140 been doing.
00:23:35.520 And so that has, I mean, usually Cracker Barrel is a sea of tables.
00:23:39.440 Like when you look around, we've got a lot of tables and chairs and that one is all booths.
00:23:42.740 And I thought they're going to kill me for the booths.
00:23:44.820 It's too many booths.
00:23:45.640 It's too many booths.
00:23:46.340 And it wasn't that.
00:23:47.640 It was the black and white and the decor.
00:23:50.520 So that's why when people got upset about it, we were like, oh gosh, that's not the intention.
00:23:54.880 We can revert them.
00:23:55.880 Like no problem.
00:23:57.140 Change the logo, painted them around.
00:23:59.280 Like we're in the, there's a couple still because of Florida permitting that aren't fully turned
00:24:02.720 back yet, but we're getting there.
00:24:03.740 There were only four.
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00:25:49.060 In some ways, I'm going to get so much heat for saying this.
00:25:55.460 In some ways, I think it was unfair.
00:25:58.700 Because I don't, doing my research, I don't think it was intentional.
00:26:03.840 I think it was, it wasn't political.
00:26:08.400 It was just a lack of understanding of the brand and the time in which we live.
00:26:15.480 You know, we, I can take it from Nike, but Budweiser, any of these, any of these brands
00:26:26.220 that said they were like me, I don't care how you vote, I don't care, but don't slap
00:26:33.840 me across the face.
00:26:35.700 And I think it felt like that to a lot of people, that you were just like, we don't
00:26:41.100 care about your values, we want new customers, we're, this is who we are, and it, and this
00:26:47.360 is unfair to you.
00:26:48.420 There was that one picture that was going around of the rainbow seats.
00:26:54.740 That wasn't you.
00:26:56.100 That wasn't part of this new deal.
00:26:59.280 But was there DEI and all that crap going on in the company?
00:27:03.640 This, this was truly about, you know, we, as you look around, we embroider that logo on
00:27:09.220 so many things, hats and shirts, and it was truly about making it more simple as part of
00:27:14.080 a system.
00:27:14.480 No, but I mean, was DEI, was, was the, had the company embraced DEI as a culture?
00:27:27.780 Look, we, the Cracker Barrel has always been about welcoming everybody in.
00:27:31.700 I think before I was here, we had different policies.
00:27:36.340 We're here to take care of people.
00:27:38.060 We're here to make sure everybody can work here, can be welcome here.
00:27:42.480 Right.
00:27:42.880 But there's a difference between, I think everybody, every American wants that.
00:27:47.100 There's a difference between that and promoting, you know, when, when a, a brand, I don't even
00:27:57.080 know which one did, probably Nike, all of a sudden makes it a point of saying, boys can
00:28:05.240 be girls and they should be in the girls' locker room.
00:28:08.060 I don't need that from my brand.
00:28:10.440 I don't want that from my brand.
00:28:12.820 You as individuals can make whatever choice you want, but don't preach to me from a corporate
00:28:18.400 place.
00:28:19.600 Don't preach to me on that.
00:28:21.220 Just leave me alone.
00:28:22.420 I'm here to buy your shoes.
00:28:24.780 I'm here to eat your meal.
00:28:27.660 Can we just not have that thrown in our face?
00:28:30.560 What I'm asking you, was that part of any of the strategy that this was becoming, we have
00:28:40.460 to make political statements?
00:28:42.380 No, it's pancakes.
00:28:44.100 Not even one time.
00:28:44.880 Yeah, we're not trying to make political statements.
00:28:47.300 Your point earlier about, you think it's potentially unfair, I think the logo was the straw that
00:28:54.980 broke the camel's back.
00:28:55.800 I think from 2018 forward, we had frustrated them so many times with menu items we had deleted,
00:29:03.060 horrible service, bad food.
00:29:05.360 We couldn't execute food out of the kitchen.
00:29:06.820 We're holding guests for 50 minutes to an hour when they want to get out in 45 like that.
00:29:11.060 And they were telling us, our guests, they keep coming back and keep coming back and keep
00:29:16.620 coming back.
00:29:17.060 And every time they come back, it's like, come on, guys, we're going to give you another
00:29:20.620 shot.
00:29:21.100 Get the food right.
00:29:21.800 Get the service right.
00:29:23.460 And we did not see that as our North Star.
00:29:26.440 We had, I call them blinking lights.
00:29:27.740 We had all these blinking lights happening, forgetting about, you know what, our guest is
00:29:32.240 coming in to eat and we've got to provide that experience.
00:29:35.940 And then it becomes a experiential brand where unfortunately it was, it became transactional
00:29:43.060 because the guests, they couldn't take time to even understand what was happening on the
00:29:45.940 walls because they're frustrated that we can't get food out or get it right or the quality.
00:29:50.580 Our focus right now is food and experience.
00:29:54.340 Right.
00:29:54.620 I mean, we have to.
00:29:56.180 It sounds so simple, but it's why you're here.
00:30:00.760 Doug says it all the time.
00:30:01.640 You're here because you're hungry.
00:30:02.600 Sorry, maybe you need a gift on your way in and out, but it's because you're hungry.
00:30:06.480 We've got to make sure that we're doing that.
00:30:07.940 I know your, I don't even know if it's your mission statement.
00:30:12.080 It's part of your mission statement.
00:30:13.180 That whole.
00:30:13.800 Pleasing people.
00:30:14.680 Plaque.
00:30:15.280 Yeah, that whole thing that has all the different, and part of it was to be a family.
00:30:25.140 That's why the fireplace here.
00:30:26.420 That's why the checkered boar is there because it's meant to be a warm, safe home away from
00:30:34.480 home.
00:30:35.020 It's like, it's like Uncle Ted moves in and he's now taking care of grandma, but he's
00:30:41.860 getting rid of all of the doilies that have been on grandma's table.
00:30:45.260 And you're like, that's not grandma.
00:30:47.160 Okay.
00:30:47.340 Even if grandma was saying, I don't care about the doilies, that that's grandma's house.
00:30:51.760 Yeah.
00:30:51.980 And you were messing with grandma's house.
00:30:55.620 And we are, we're sorry that that's what people feel.
00:30:59.620 That was not the intent.
00:31:00.820 It was not the intent.
00:31:01.960 And it hurts, it hurts me because I don't want people to be mad at Cracker Barrel.
00:31:07.620 Our job is to make people love Cracker Barrel the way that our guests do, right?
00:31:11.900 And so even trying to invite new people in, it was always about how do we show them the
00:31:17.540 magic that is Cracker Barrel, the stories of America, the stories of our guests, the
00:31:22.760 stories of the people like Janice and Doug who've worked, who've spent their lives making
00:31:26.460 it great here.
00:31:27.400 That's what we want everybody to love.
00:31:30.420 And we miss the mark.
00:31:31.560 We miss the mark.
00:31:32.120 You were on Good Morning America.
00:31:37.240 That wasn't fun.
00:31:38.180 And this is your first interview since then.
00:31:44.340 I thought we weren't having an interview.
00:31:45.960 You told me we were just talking.
00:31:47.860 Didn't you tell me?
00:31:49.460 Just a discussion.
00:31:50.220 I was talking.
00:31:51.100 I'm sure this is not your first discussion since then.
00:31:54.820 But what did you learn from that?
00:31:59.220 Anything?
00:31:59.760 From Good Morning America?
00:32:00.880 From that interview and the response on that interview.
00:32:03.220 That so many things have gotten in our way of, and we've lost focus, focus on the things
00:32:19.940 that matter, which is what we're talking about, food, taking care of people, telling
00:32:24.900 the stories, letting people see themselves in this brand.
00:32:28.640 And, you know, you asked me earlier about a place that I've worked, and the thing that
00:32:34.180 struck me about Cracker Barrel, and that continues to strike me about Cracker Barrel, this is a
00:32:38.680 humble brand with humble beginnings here in the center of this great country.
00:32:45.940 Other brands that you go into, you sit down, and when you look around and you see things
00:32:50.320 on the walls, they're the brand's story.
00:32:53.540 They're telling you about the ingredients.
00:32:55.480 They're telling you about their founding, whatever they want you to think.
00:33:00.480 We don't do that here at Cracker Barrel.
00:33:01.960 There's nothing on the wall here that's Cracker Barrel or the logo.
00:33:05.700 This is America's story.
00:33:07.540 This is our guest's story.
00:33:09.620 This is Janice's or Doug's story, and people's ability to feel that when they come in, whether
00:33:14.560 it's Grandma's house.
00:33:16.860 And so we don't want to move the doilies around.
00:33:18.720 We want to make it comfortable for you and comfortable for you to bring your friends and
00:33:22.280 family.
00:33:22.540 So can I ask you, how do, because part of me, part of me absolutely agrees with the way
00:33:32.540 people reacted.
00:33:34.440 But part of me also is like, that's a little irrational, you know.
00:33:38.240 It's a product of the time.
00:33:44.680 And it's honestly, it feels like a corporate boardroom not understanding what people are
00:33:52.640 feeling about the overall picture of their life.
00:33:56.540 You know what I mean?
00:33:58.020 And of other things, too, that are going on.
00:33:59.760 Right, right, right.
00:34:00.760 Politics, everything.
00:34:01.520 Everything.
00:34:02.600 I mean, I hate the fact that everything is about politics.
00:34:09.520 You know, it's ridiculous.
00:34:11.180 We can't survive if everything is about politics.
00:34:13.460 Pancakes are pancakes.
00:34:14.820 Football is football.
00:34:16.960 Politics are politics.
00:34:18.420 But how do you, if we don't correct this, I'm asking you to put a philosophical hat on
00:34:26.480 here.
00:34:27.180 If we don't, if everybody is afraid to change, afraid that everything's going to mean six
00:34:40.400 layers down something else, how do we survive?
00:34:44.640 How do you make change in business?
00:34:47.640 It's a very existential question for our coffee and country French turkey.
00:34:53.920 By the way, very good.
00:34:55.060 Yeah, I like it.
00:34:55.940 Very good.
00:34:56.760 It is.
00:34:57.460 It's a star.
00:34:58.300 The guy who picked me up at the airport said, have you had this?
00:35:01.620 And I was like, no.
00:35:02.660 So that's why I'm having it for breakfast.
00:35:04.380 It is.
00:35:05.040 It's a home run.
00:35:06.080 And you've got to get it while you can.
00:35:07.040 We usually sell out, like, right around Thanksgiving.
00:35:09.320 We bought a little bit more this year, so hopefully it'll last through the holidays.
00:35:13.020 Look, I think that's why, frankly, that's why I was anxious to sit down and chat with
00:35:20.020 you, because I do think a lot of things have been misconstrued, and I want to set the record
00:35:25.920 straight.
00:35:26.460 I want people to know that this is the brand that they've always known and loved, and that
00:35:31.020 our job is to take care of it, and to set it up for the next 55 years.
00:35:36.100 And that when you walk in here, it feels like Cracker Barrel.
00:35:41.100 The spirit, the feeling, the legacy, the traditions, the food that you love that's made by hand
00:35:46.600 by people who care, it's still here.
00:35:49.600 Are you surprised?
00:35:51.320 This is probably very unfair to ask you.
00:35:55.380 We'll see.
00:35:55.740 Were you surprised you weren't fired?
00:36:02.920 I feel like I've been fired by America.
00:36:09.080 I bet you do.
00:36:09.980 Yeah.
00:36:11.500 That's probably worse.
00:36:12.540 Yeah, because it's hard, because, again, all I've wanted to do is help people love this
00:36:21.200 brand the way I love this brand, the way Doug loves this brand, the way everybody who works
00:36:25.420 here.
00:36:25.860 I mean, the responsibility for the 70,000 people who work here, I bear that every single
00:36:32.260 day.
00:36:32.600 They are here to make a better life for themselves, to take care of their families, to put a roof
00:36:37.040 over their head, food on their table.
00:36:38.340 And my job is to make sure that Cracker Barrel helps them do that.
00:36:42.800 And it's not just those 70,000 people.
00:36:44.480 They, like, Doug has four other people depending on him.
00:36:46.620 They all have people depending on them.
00:36:48.200 And that's why we're doing what we're doing, because this brand deserves to have another
00:36:54.620 50, 60 years in front of it.
00:36:56.600 We're trying to set it up for the future so that people, the stories are here and they're
00:37:02.000 told and people can come in and feel that.
00:37:04.620 And the feeling that you get here is so special.
00:37:09.300 It's so unique.
00:37:11.020 And I'm talking about you personally.
00:37:12.380 And I want, I want, but my job is to keep, keep that, you know, protect that, you know?
00:37:20.240 And, and I feel like people don't think I can do that sometimes, but my job is to invite
00:37:26.640 them in and let them see that it's, that they know and love.
00:37:30.100 I mean, hopefully you feel that today, but, and maybe your listeners can feel that through
00:37:35.080 you.
00:37:35.860 I do feel this.
00:37:37.300 The beginning of that answer, which is all that mattered to me, was the most genuine thing
00:37:45.760 I have heard from somebody in your position in a very long time.
00:37:52.040 I can see that it actually, I can see in your eyes right now that hurt deeply, personally.
00:38:00.160 I want people to love this place.
00:38:11.680 Just a reminder, I'd love you to rate and subscribe to the podcast and pass this on to a friend
00:38:17.320 so it can be discovered by other people.
00:38:30.160 Thank you.