Ep 275 ｜ Cracker Barrel CEO Finally Addresses ‘Woke’ Rebrand Controversy ｜ The Glenn Beck Podcast  Â
Episode Stats
Words per Minute
170.98392
Summary
When Cracker Barrel introduced a new menu in the late 90s and early 2000s, it was a big deal. And it wasn t just a menu change. It was the first time they served alcohol in a Cracker barrel.
Transcript
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It was summer of 2025 when Cracker Barrel announced that they were going to go do something different.
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New logo. No nice old man, no Cracker Barrel, just Cracker Barrel.
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Any other time in American history might not have been a big deal.
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But it became a big deal, and it was, uh, it was one of the biggest, dumbest moves, honestly, that I've, I've seen in my life of a corporation.
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Because people felt like something that they held onto and cherished and loved was under attack.
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Who, who are the people that made the decision?
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And quite honestly, I heard from, I heard from the guy who picked me up at the airport.
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I heard from one of the guys who was handling the baggage at the airport.
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I said, I'm going to meet with the head of Cracker Barrel.
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The driver said, I don't know what they were thinking.
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What you're going to hear in the podcast today is my conversation with two people.
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The senior vice president was brought in to fix the problems.
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There are parts of it that are very uncomfortable.
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Parts of it are that, honestly, the usual blah, blah, blah PR stuff that you get.
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Because the last time the CEO was on television, she was on ABC, Good Morning America.
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So, this is her first television interview since.
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I don't know if they thought I would go easy on them, but I didn't.
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Especially if you're watching and not just listening.
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Because there is one moment that I think changed everything.
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We have on today's podcast the senior vice president of Cracker Barrel Store Operations, Doug Hizell.
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As we came out of COVID, A, trying to hire 50,000 people back.
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But we lost a lot of very long tenured employees.
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A lot of them a little bit older and scared to come back into the environment.
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And in 22, as we started opening back up, we had that new menu that we had.
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We're trying to get guests any way we can get them.
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Like, they were going to sit out in the landscape.
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And I always say that COVID even made Cracker Barrel start drinking alcohol.
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Like, it was out of COVID that it was like, how are we figuring out how to drive top-line sales and try to get, you know, a guest in?
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And is this something that we could potentially do?
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You think Cracker Barrel's never served alcohol before.
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And so, it's easy to think, you're selling people alcohol now.
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And so, you know, as we got into 23, I came out of my ops administration role and came into operations.
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The best way for me to describe it is we were throwing Velcro balls at a wall to see what would stick.
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It was like, how can we get people in and not just guests, staff.
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I can tell you many stories of us sending SWAT teams into areas to just find people to work.
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We couldn't open the doors because we only had four or five employees.
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Our volume stores like this in the legacy market is 130 to 150.
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And so when Julie came in, she never said it to me, but if I was her, she was probably
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looking at us like, wow, we are a bit in shambles.
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I mean, we were, like I said, we were throwing Velcro balls at the wall.
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We put menu items on that we thought would drive a new guest.
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We didn't start with the kitchen and let's make the heart of the house the kitchen that
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And so I think I've mentioned to you on the line, it's a mirrored steam line.
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And it's basically the kitchen is cut in half and you can operate the menu off of that one
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And the menu that we had in 19, it needed fryer stations.
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And unfortunately, we went after the menu first and not the kitchen, which impacted our
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Some of our service opportunities has been just trying to get back up.
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The Janice's of the world have been here 35 years.
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We lost a lot of tenure, especially on our second shift.
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We've got some younger servers that are coming on, never served before.
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And so we had to revitalize our training program and just a lot of new things that we frankly,
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with a 56 year brand, had never dealt with before.
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I mean, we were focused on going to take care of something instead of the base foundation.
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The average person is finding it difficult to pay expenses every month.
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And in most cases, there's nothing left over to cover any extras.
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At that point in time, probably, I don't know, five or six years of TSR decline.
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I mean, you can see right now, I'm looking around.
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It's a lot of people taking care of a lot of people, right?
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You look at even our competitors, like a Denny's or like an IHOP, somebody like that, $18.
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Look at people like Chili's and Longhorn and Texas Roadhouse, $27.
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So for us to maintain that value, we need a lot of throughput.
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So if we count on a lot of people at a lower check, we're about abundance.
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So we had been losing guests, as Doug described, since probably, what, 2018?
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So I was tasked with how do we create change in that?
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This is always about, like, how do we keep our core guests and make them happy?
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Delight them and just get more people to love Cracker Barrel the way they do.
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What were you thinking should be done at that time?
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Well, one, I was in operations admin, so I wasn't close to the strategy or culinary piece.
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But, frankly, it was about how do we create new menu offerings that will attract a new guest.
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And we're trying to figure out, you know, what are those things that are going to bring the guests in?
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And Southern Fried Chicken was, it was kind of the anchor.
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That's where we thought we could potentially see an impact.
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But I don't think we realized the complexity it put on the kitchen.
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And then, like, literally right after we rolled it, going to COVID.
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And think about how many more choices guests have today, right?
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I mean, even just from 2018 to today, brands that weren't around, you know.
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Like, there weren't a lot of brands at that point in time.
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And now, look, today, you drive down this road, you drive that way.
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When you said, you know, some of your competitors, Denny's, that doesn't seem right to me.
00:12:05.600
And I think, I think that's what, well, you tell me.
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The, when did you hire the consultants to come in?
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Well, I think you all have had consultants in over the years, but.
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So, when I got here, part of what I was tasked with was changing the trajectory, right?
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And so, we really dug in first on where were our opportunities?
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Food and experience was one that raised to the top.
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But there were other things that we needed to do as well.
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And that's when we brought in some consultants who helped us dig into our data, look at competitive
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data, look at people who used to come to us who don't come to us anymore, people who
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And people who've never even thought to come to Cracker Barrel.
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So, really looking at all of those things to really say, how do we improve our food and
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One of the first things that we really tackled, and that was one of our biggest problems,
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And dinner is an important day part for us because, believe it or not, we actually,
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But we actually started at the other end of it, which was early dine.
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And so, we put early dine specials out for our guests because we'd heard, like, that
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So, $8.99, come in, you get meatloaf, home fried chicken, all of that stuff.
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Um, really just listening and making sure that we had the things that people wanted so that
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Um, let's just get it, let's just get this out.
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What happened, the choices that were made, I said on day one of this, I remember when
00:14:13.940
they rolled out New Coke and I thought that was the dumbest marketing move, the dumbest
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Um, we're taking the original formula and ditching it and let's start over with a brand
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The day this broke, I said on the air, welcome to New Coke.
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Um, and it was, no offense, stupid, just stupid from start to finish.
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I feel it in you when you're, when you're, when you're saying that they have a right to
00:15:02.260
It was not to put the old version of Cracker Barrel in a box.
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That's why actually, when we said, okay, okay, we hear you.
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When you, when you walk out of here, there's a big sign over there by the side of the freeway.
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It's a beacon to the weary traveler from the interstate.
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The, the day we rolled that, we brought Uncle Herschel's, uh, menu item back to the menu,
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which our guests have been asking for for like 10 years.
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It was like, it was just so unfortunate that we, it, it, it, but I get it.
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Like what we didn't see in the data, again, it was one piece of what we were doing, but
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what we didn't see in the data was that the way people see themselves in the logo.
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So when the old timer and when the barrel were gone, it was like we had taken them out
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of it and that we weren't valuing what they valued.
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And we've heard that loud and clear since we did that.
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Like I really regret that that was not the intention we were trying to make it think
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You, you know, your logo has to be this big to fit on there.
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We were trying to simplify it because honestly, we got a guy, we got a barrel, we got a lot
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So what was, what, what's, what was America saying to you?
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They were saying our values, our traditions, that's what Cracker Barrel represents to us.
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The story, look around, the story of America is on the walls.
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And they thought when we did that, that we were saying that we didn't care about that.
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And we are so, I'm so sorry for the misunderstanding.
00:17:16.420
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What was, A, the thinking of the remodeling and was it ever intended to get rid of all
00:20:02.000
Because it seemed very sterile compared to this.
00:20:08.620
I think a lot of people think that Doug and me and other people sit around and are like,
00:20:16.980
The notion for some of that truly came out of a lot of the work that we were doing on
00:20:24.260
When we were talking to our guests, they said, stores could be a little bit more comfortable.
00:20:40.280
I had maybe been here a hot minute, like two or three months, like, yeah, two or three
00:20:43.780
And we were out in Memphis, one of our older stores.
00:20:48.580
And we were, we were talking to the team and we were, and I, we were working and I literally
00:20:59.620
And in my mind, I'm going, it happens all the time.
00:21:03.200
But like there, I've seen them all over the country carrying stadium cushions.
00:21:05.860
And I'm like, I've literally stopped in my tracks.
00:21:11.160
So I waited until he got his food and of course interrupted him while he was eating.
00:21:14.300
But I said, sir, I, I've just got to understand.
00:21:26.140
I love it here, but your chairs are so uncomfortable.
00:21:28.180
And he's like, oh yeah, this happens all the time.
00:21:39.180
Literally Glenn, I was having breakfast with my nephew and his girlfriend, not four weeks
00:21:44.760
ago on Charlotte, Charlotte Pike that way, uh, in a store.
00:21:48.860
And we were sitting in one of the window seats and gosh darn it didn't happen again.
00:21:53.380
A guy gets out of his pickup truck, nine o'clock on a Saturday morning with a stadium cushion
00:22:02.240
And, and that's really where it all started is how do we make the stores more comfortable?
00:22:05.920
We also heard from our guests that that's why they weren't coming as much for dinner because
00:22:12.080
You are sitting in the second booth ever in a cracker room.
00:22:17.640
And the reason this corner is kind of like this is because the first one is over there
00:22:22.240
in the corner and it was a square, it was a square table and we have a group that comes
00:22:27.100
in for a Bible study three times a week and they couldn't get around the corner.
00:22:30.600
They call themselves the corner crew now because they, they helped us learn, uh, that we needed
00:22:37.460
So the remodels have been a test unlearned project.
00:22:39.920
How do we get the right balance of investment, of comfort, of nostalgia, of the tradition
00:22:47.320
that everybody knows and loves here, but in a way that's easy for our teams to take care
00:22:55.320
So how do, how do we make sure that we, we do all of those things while keeping the
00:22:59.220
stories and the traditions and the things that people love about cracker and the feeling
00:23:03.000
for me, it's like the feeling when you come in and the fire's going and yeah, you know,
00:23:07.060
um, so that's really, I will tell you, this is, this is very different than the, the drawings
00:23:16.620
And so, and they were, again, we've got all different levels of kind of testing and learning
00:23:22.320
Are these corporately owned or are these franchises?
00:23:26.280
The thing I thought people were going to not like about that is that store has so many
00:23:30.700
Like we actually took out because people have been loving the soft seating in the remodels that we've
00:23:35.520
And so that has, I mean, usually Cracker Barrel is a sea of tables.
00:23:39.440
Like when you look around, we've got a lot of tables and chairs and that one is all booths.
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In some ways, I'm going to get so much heat for saying this.
00:25:58.700
Because I don't, doing my research, I don't think it was intentional.
00:26:08.400
It was just a lack of understanding of the brand and the time in which we live.
00:26:15.480
You know, we, I can take it from Nike, but Budweiser, any of these, any of these brands
00:26:26.220
that said they were like me, I don't care how you vote, I don't care, but don't slap
00:26:35.700
And I think it felt like that to a lot of people, that you were just like, we don't
00:26:41.100
care about your values, we want new customers, we're, this is who we are, and it, and this
00:26:48.420
There was that one picture that was going around of the rainbow seats.
00:26:59.280
But was there DEI and all that crap going on in the company?
00:27:03.640
This, this was truly about, you know, we, as you look around, we embroider that logo on
00:27:09.220
so many things, hats and shirts, and it was truly about making it more simple as part of
00:27:14.480
No, but I mean, was DEI, was, was the, had the company embraced DEI as a culture?
00:27:27.780
Look, we, the Cracker Barrel has always been about welcoming everybody in.
00:27:31.700
I think before I was here, we had different policies.
00:27:38.060
We're here to make sure everybody can work here, can be welcome here.
00:27:42.880
But there's a difference between, I think everybody, every American wants that.
00:27:47.100
There's a difference between that and promoting, you know, when, when a, a brand, I don't even
00:27:57.080
know which one did, probably Nike, all of a sudden makes it a point of saying, boys can
00:28:05.240
be girls and they should be in the girls' locker room.
00:28:12.820
You as individuals can make whatever choice you want, but don't preach to me from a corporate
00:28:30.560
What I'm asking you, was that part of any of the strategy that this was becoming, we have
00:28:44.880
Yeah, we're not trying to make political statements.
00:28:47.300
Your point earlier about, you think it's potentially unfair, I think the logo was the straw that
00:28:55.800
I think from 2018 forward, we had frustrated them so many times with menu items we had deleted,
00:29:06.820
We're holding guests for 50 minutes to an hour when they want to get out in 45 like that.
00:29:11.060
And they were telling us, our guests, they keep coming back and keep coming back and keep
00:29:17.060
And every time they come back, it's like, come on, guys, we're going to give you another
00:29:27.740
We had all these blinking lights happening, forgetting about, you know what, our guest is
00:29:32.240
coming in to eat and we've got to provide that experience.
00:29:35.940
And then it becomes a experiential brand where unfortunately it was, it became transactional
00:29:43.060
because the guests, they couldn't take time to even understand what was happening on the
00:29:45.940
walls because they're frustrated that we can't get food out or get it right or the quality.
00:30:02.600
Sorry, maybe you need a gift on your way in and out, but it's because you're hungry.
00:30:07.940
I know your, I don't even know if it's your mission statement.
00:30:15.280
Yeah, that whole thing that has all the different, and part of it was to be a family.
00:30:26.420
That's why the checkered boar is there because it's meant to be a warm, safe home away from
00:30:35.020
It's like, it's like Uncle Ted moves in and he's now taking care of grandma, but he's
00:30:41.860
getting rid of all of the doilies that have been on grandma's table.
00:30:47.340
Even if grandma was saying, I don't care about the doilies, that that's grandma's house.
00:30:55.620
And we are, we're sorry that that's what people feel.
00:31:01.960
And it hurts, it hurts me because I don't want people to be mad at Cracker Barrel.
00:31:07.620
Our job is to make people love Cracker Barrel the way that our guests do, right?
00:31:11.900
And so even trying to invite new people in, it was always about how do we show them the
00:31:17.540
magic that is Cracker Barrel, the stories of America, the stories of our guests, the
00:31:22.760
stories of the people like Janice and Doug who've worked, who've spent their lives making
00:31:51.100
I'm sure this is not your first discussion since then.
00:32:00.880
From that interview and the response on that interview.
00:32:03.220
That so many things have gotten in our way of, and we've lost focus, focus on the things
00:32:19.940
that matter, which is what we're talking about, food, taking care of people, telling
00:32:24.900
the stories, letting people see themselves in this brand.
00:32:28.640
And, you know, you asked me earlier about a place that I've worked, and the thing that
00:32:34.180
struck me about Cracker Barrel, and that continues to strike me about Cracker Barrel, this is a
00:32:38.680
humble brand with humble beginnings here in the center of this great country.
00:32:45.940
Other brands that you go into, you sit down, and when you look around and you see things
00:32:55.480
They're telling you about their founding, whatever they want you to think.
00:33:01.960
There's nothing on the wall here that's Cracker Barrel or the logo.
00:33:09.620
This is Janice's or Doug's story, and people's ability to feel that when they come in, whether
00:33:16.860
And so we don't want to move the doilies around.
00:33:18.720
We want to make it comfortable for you and comfortable for you to bring your friends and
00:33:22.540
So can I ask you, how do, because part of me, part of me absolutely agrees with the way
00:33:34.440
But part of me also is like, that's a little irrational, you know.
00:33:44.680
And it's honestly, it feels like a corporate boardroom not understanding what people are
00:33:52.640
feeling about the overall picture of their life.
00:34:02.600
I mean, I hate the fact that everything is about politics.
00:34:11.180
We can't survive if everything is about politics.
00:34:18.420
But how do you, if we don't correct this, I'm asking you to put a philosophical hat on
00:34:27.180
If we don't, if everybody is afraid to change, afraid that everything's going to mean six
00:34:47.640
It's a very existential question for our coffee and country French turkey.
00:34:58.300
The guy who picked me up at the airport said, have you had this?
00:35:07.040
We usually sell out, like, right around Thanksgiving.
00:35:09.320
We bought a little bit more this year, so hopefully it'll last through the holidays.
00:35:13.020
Look, I think that's why, frankly, that's why I was anxious to sit down and chat with
00:35:20.020
you, because I do think a lot of things have been misconstrued, and I want to set the record
00:35:26.460
I want people to know that this is the brand that they've always known and loved, and that
00:35:31.020
our job is to take care of it, and to set it up for the next 55 years.
00:35:36.100
And that when you walk in here, it feels like Cracker Barrel.
00:35:41.100
The spirit, the feeling, the legacy, the traditions, the food that you love that's made by hand
00:36:12.540
Yeah, because it's hard, because, again, all I've wanted to do is help people love this
00:36:21.200
brand the way I love this brand, the way Doug loves this brand, the way everybody who works
00:36:25.860
I mean, the responsibility for the 70,000 people who work here, I bear that every single
00:36:32.600
They are here to make a better life for themselves, to take care of their families, to put a roof
00:36:38.340
And my job is to make sure that Cracker Barrel helps them do that.
00:36:44.480
They, like, Doug has four other people depending on him.
00:36:48.200
And that's why we're doing what we're doing, because this brand deserves to have another
00:36:56.600
We're trying to set it up for the future so that people, the stories are here and they're
00:37:04.620
And the feeling that you get here is so special.
00:37:12.380
And I want, I want, but my job is to keep, keep that, you know, protect that, you know?
00:37:20.240
And, and I feel like people don't think I can do that sometimes, but my job is to invite
00:37:26.640
them in and let them see that it's, that they know and love.
00:37:30.100
I mean, hopefully you feel that today, but, and maybe your listeners can feel that through
00:37:37.300
The beginning of that answer, which is all that mattered to me, was the most genuine thing
00:37:45.760
I have heard from somebody in your position in a very long time.
00:37:52.040
I can see that it actually, I can see in your eyes right now that hurt deeply, personally.
00:38:11.680
Just a reminder, I'd love you to rate and subscribe to the podcast and pass this on to a friend