In this episode of the Blaze Media Podcast, I sit down with my good friend and long-time colleague Allie Ochs. We talk about how she got her start in the business, her relationship with Glenn Beck, and what it's like to work at Blaze Studios.
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00:01:04.300Well, I don't think that we need feminism. I think we need Christianity.
00:01:08.020I mean, you're accused of taking a pastor's position because you do these big events.
00:01:11.500Which, of course, I'm not. I don't shepherd a flock.
00:01:13.560Peter Thiel has been going around talking about the Antichrist.
00:01:17.480And for some reason, Israel has become the central question that we need to answer on the right that has become like the defining feature and the dividing line on the right.
00:01:26.540Allie, people say you are the next Charlie Kirk.
00:01:33.500What? Is that good? Bad? How do you react to that? How do you feel about that?
00:01:38.040You know, I think a lot of people have been trying to figure out who the replacement for him is.
00:01:45.860I've seen the media say, it's Nick Fuentes. It's, you know, this other activist over here.
00:01:51.440And the truth is, is that he's irreplaceable and that all of us kind of hold a fraction of what he was.
00:01:58.120I hope that I can kind of carry the torch of evangelism and apologetics and things like that.
00:02:03.160But I don't see myself as a political activist or as a coalition builder.
00:02:07.840Too many disagreements for that. He was so good at peacemaking through debate.
00:02:12.360I don't see that as my role. So I'm just going to keep running the race that I'm going to run.
00:02:16.660Yeah, it's interesting because I thought when he died, I thought, who is going to replace him?
00:02:23.440And I couldn't come up. I could come up with like five people that could take parts of it.
00:02:28.380But I couldn't come up with one. And then I thought, why are we looking?
00:02:32.200Why are we saying who's going to replace him? He was unique. He didn't replace somebody.
00:02:38.520He was just completely unique. And when we find unique people, and I think you're one of them.
00:02:44.920I mean, how long have we known each other?
00:02:48.220Okay, so I started coming to Blaze Studios 2017. So now it's been nine years. I think nine years February of 2017.
00:02:58.820And you were just doing, if I remember right, you were just doing videos in your car.
00:03:39.640I remember really early on, I've seen, I've met, I think I told you this once, I've met a ton of millionaires.
00:03:53.420And I've met a ton of really powerful, famous people that don't have any money and don't have any fame because they're just not willing to do the one thing, whatever it is, the one thing that, you know, and sometimes it's just, I expect it.
00:04:14.600I expect, well, I'm going to be, you know, whatever. And they won't work for it or whatever it is. I, I don't know. I mean, coming through the blaze door, we now have the secretary of defense, Pete Hegseth.
00:04:30.260We've had so many people come through these doors. You are one who I think is, and I told you this, I think at some point, a legitimate, star is not the right word, a legitimate force to be reckoned with. And I can't, I'm so excited for you.
00:04:49.080Well, thank you for saying that. We had a lot of conversations early on. And of course I'm nobody walking in and Glenn Beck and is like, oh, he wants to talk to us in his office with Lawrence Jones. And I mean, very intimidating situation. And I remember something that you said that I was like, I do not want to agree with that. I do not want to believe that.
00:05:10.640You said, and this is paraphrasing that you are never going to be able to meet a moment that you did not prepare for. And you talked about the importance of experience and preparation and hard work. And here I am a few months in to my media career. And I'm like, but I feel like maybe just raw talent is fine.
00:05:31.640I feel like you could just, you know, you get there and you have enough, just raw ability to take you over. But truly every single new opportunity I've had, it's not, I don't look and I'm not like, wow, I'm so glad that I was so talented or I'm so glad that I just had that natural gift. No, I look back and say, oh, that thing five years ago prepared me for this.
00:05:57.940Oh, that thing that I've been doing on my podcast. That is actually what prepared me to debate 20 liberals in a circle on that Jubilee video. It wasn't raw talent. It was preparation and hard work. So now almost 10 years in, I can agree with Glenn Beck.
00:06:14.020Yeah, that's good. I wish more people felt that way. Can I talk to you about that circle? Cause I watched you, you were so good. So under Charlie had that too. I cannot do that. I would lose my mind.
00:06:29.520I have, you could totally do it. Oh, I don't think so. You could, you could, but you know, it was such an interesting thing because I had watched Charlie's and they were so ruthless to Charlie. They were so mean, they were personal about his appearance, about his kids. And so that's what I was expecting. Now this was the day before Charlie's memorial. So just a couple of weeks after he died and I was expecting vitriol.
00:06:51.960I even thought they might bring him up in some kind of like attacking way, knowing that we were, you know, that we were friends. But actually I sat down and the first thing that this person said to me, his name was Gilbert was, I am so sorry about your friend, Charlie.
00:07:05.480And I don't know why they cut that out of the final cut, but that really softened everything. So as much as I want to say, well, I, it was just me. It was my kindness. It was my charm. Really that softened everything from the get go. And that kind of set us up, I think to have a productive debate.
00:07:23.460That is something that people don't do. I, I, I've done so many interviews with people on the other side of the table and I can come in with a perfectly great attitude, but if they don't want to do, if they don't want to have a great attitude, it's over. It's just over. It takes both sides to sit down and go, I actually want to talk to you. You know what I mean? I want to learn something about you.
00:07:49.640I want to understand something about you without an agenda. And that just doesn't happen. Do you think that happened because it was the day before the memorial?
00:07:58.660I think that was part of it. And, and a way I felt that that was a weakness because I was so tired and I was so sad and all of these things, but God really used something really ugly and dark to bring glory to himself and actually create a good debate.
00:08:13.320And also to your point, I saw it as my goal to persuade the person across from me. I was not thinking, how can I clip this? Can I get this point in? Or what is this person going to think? It's too many things to think about. I thought, how can I persuade the person across from me? I don't know if I accomplished that, but I think it's a better mentality than just thinking about performing for the camera.
00:08:33.800I wonder if, I wonder how you would react because I believe the only way to persuade somebody is to listen to them and care about them. And I think you're saying that when you're like, how do I persuade this person?
00:08:52.540You were like, I'm, I'm, I, you matter. Yeah. We're so much of the dialogue and especially what you see online. You're just an object, you know, and I'm just performing on you for that. And nothing happens. Nothing good happens from that.
00:09:11.080Yeah. I'm sure that you've done a lot of interviews where the person interviewing you is not looking at you. They're looking through you. They're thinking about their next question. They're not listening to you at all.
00:09:20.780And I just, I can't do that. That's not because I'm a good person, but I can't, I just, I can't think about something else while someone else is talking to me.
00:09:28.920So I think just the art of listening and then responding to what someone actually said, not just saying what you want to say is something that's lost, but really important.
00:09:37.140So where, where, where are we? Let me do one more question. Kind of on the Charlie Kirk thing. I think that.
00:09:43.620When, when, when evil showed up and sickness, whatever, whatever shoots Charlie. Yeah.
00:09:55.360He knew there would be a, an equal or opposite reaction. I think he was hoping for everybody to cheer him on and say, you know, what a great thing that is.
00:10:06.000But what happened was not an equal reaction. It was opposite, but it was not equal. And I, I really feel like God showed up. You were at the funeral. I was at the funeral.
00:10:17.040I've never felt anything like that. God was there. And you could, it was like a, it was like an ocean wave. People started talking about politics and it would withdraw.
00:10:26.260Yeah. And then they would talk about God again and it would come rolling back in. It was amazing to feel it.
00:10:33.940But then we went into this period immediately where the right is tearing itself apart. And I don't want to make this about personalities or any of that, but the right is tearing itself apart.
00:10:46.380And people are starting to believe things that I believe, I believe an equal and opposite reaction. Yeah.
00:10:56.820I think Satan came in, saw what God was doing and Satan came in and was like, oh yeah, watch this. Yeah.
00:11:04.580I mean, I feel like we're watching the big boys play right now and we're just pawns on a table in a way. Yeah.
00:11:11.020You know, because the, the evil that is happening and being, we're just being poisoned by lies.
00:11:25.380I think right now, you know, what was said about Charlie's wife and just all of this stuff is just so bad.
00:11:35.000And we're fighting things like, you know, Jews don't run the world.
00:11:41.360We're fighting things that are so anti-Semitic that I don't even, I didn't think we had to fight that anymore.
00:11:48.240I knew anti-Semitism existed, but there's a difference between disagreeing with Israel.
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00:29:18.700My mind immediately goes to the first two chapters of Romans.
00:29:22.460The first chapter of Romans is kind of a famous or infamous, depending on how you look at it, passage about homosexuality and gender confusion.
00:29:30.340Look, these people are depraved in mind and heart.
00:29:34.200They know God's righteous decrees and they not only don't do them, but they approve of those who are sinning.
00:29:40.900And they have given themselves over to these unnatural desires and unnatural relationships.
00:29:47.280And then in the next chapter, it's a chapter about judging.
00:30:12.420It's obvious that you can call out sin and you shouldn't judge.
00:30:15.880To me, what we see in Jesus's command against judging and the Romans to command against judging is that you shouldn't be a hypocrite, is that you shouldn't say, I shouldn't say, you know what?
00:30:27.060You really shouldn't have a podcast, Glenn, because all you care about is all you care about is fame.
00:30:32.800Well, that would be hypocritical because I also have a podcast where I want to have an audience, too.
00:30:37.360And I think that we have to be really careful about calling out behavior, attitudes or whatever that we ourselves are guilty for.
00:30:44.840I think God hates hypocrisy, but I don't think that precludes us from saying this is what God calls sin.
00:30:51.320And of course, the thing that covers a multitude of sin is love and the gospel.
00:32:25.900React just to that first, because there's people who have said, you're trying to take a man's job of preaching, and women shouldn't be preaching, and you should be quiet and pregnant and in the background.
00:33:12.160I don't shepherd a flock, and women are allowed, biblically, to teach women.
00:33:16.700I would say that those who say that women can't teach at women's conferences, that they can't have a podcast, that they can't wade into the culture wars, they are going beyond what Scripture says.
00:33:26.200That might be their opinion, and they might be able to say, well, I kind of see it implied in this, and I'm fine with that if they want to have that opinion, but it's not what the Bible says.
00:33:35.800Now, I do think that women should prioritize the home, should prioritize being wives and moms and discipling.
00:33:43.300But there is also an opportunity to prioritize that and also follow the call that a woman has on her life, which may or may not be having some sort of sphere of influence in which they are teaching other women.
00:34:18.540There are various places where a man's role as both the elder and the pastor is exclusive to that gender.
00:34:27.040That's something that Charlie and I talked about a lot, because in our kind of like charismatic circles sometimes that are conservative evangelical, we get some pushback on that.
00:34:35.940I think women have a big role in the church and can play even a teaching role in the church for women and children, but not the office of elder and overseer and shepherd.
00:34:46.200I know we go to very different churches, but ours is the same.
00:35:54.340And at the end of the day, even though, you know, we consult each other on everything and we talk about everything and he values me and trusts me and all of that.
00:36:03.140But at the end of the day, I trust him to make the decision for our family.
00:36:06.760I trusted him to, when he asked, when he said, okay, we need to move to Texas.
00:37:43.440And we hear about all of these women who played a part in the genealogy of Jesus and bringing the message of the Gospel.
00:37:50.120And even in that passage that I referenced in Ephesians 5, where it says wives submit to your husbands, it also says husbands love your wives as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her.
00:38:59.880Because, well, we could get into some physiology, but physically, I don't think that we have the same stamina.
00:39:06.360Mentally and spiritually, I don't think that we have the same drive for protection and provision.
00:39:11.480I don't think that means that women have to have their feet up all day.
00:39:14.960I actually think that both men and women are called to work in a particular way, but it's different.
00:39:20.140I want to be able to have a podcast where I can talk, and I come in for a few hours, two times a week, and then I can be at home with my kids for the rest of the time.
00:39:30.780Well, my husband wants to be out and travel and work and talk and, you know, wheel and deal in a good way and, you know, accomplish the things that need to be accomplished.
00:39:40.160I don't want to go out there and do that.
00:39:54.020So I'm just, like, I'm thankful that I don't have to be in charge.
00:40:01.600I will tell you that there are women who will listen to you and go, well, I don't mind finances, or I don't, you know, I think most women, it's natural to be the nurturer.
00:40:49.640Well, I think that anytime we talk in generalities, there's going to be an exception to that.
00:40:56.080But in general, I do think men have a drive to protect and create and to build, and that doesn't mean that women have none of that.
00:41:06.720So what do you think of, what do you think of, I've thought for a while that we are seeing, in its twisted form, we're seeing the natural man and the natural woman happen in some ways in the youth right now, in 20 and early 30s.
00:41:23.200Guys are pulling back and going, something's wrong, something's wrong, and their protection, they sense trouble on the horizon.
00:41:34.940They may not even be able to identify it or know what it is, but they're pulling back from society going, something's wrong here.
00:41:42.100Women are the nurturers, and in this twisted way, they are the first ones to hold and care, and the left has made transgender guys stripping in front of your first grader into something where you should have compassion for the transgender guy.
00:42:06.860And somehow or another, that has been confused, but they are being nurturers, they are trying to protect what they now perceive as the weakest, not their own children, it's bizarre, but the women are in that nurture role right now, just twisted, and guys are searching for that protection role.
00:42:33.860All of us, when we're young, I say all of us, most of us like to play with dolls and dress up our Barbies and to take care of something, maybe it's a pet, maybe it was a chia pet, whatever it was, maybe you had a garden, but women are natural nurturers.
00:42:49.480I have three girls, I have a ton of nephews.
00:42:52.120When I see them playing together for my girls, everything becomes a family.
00:42:56.500It could be three forks, it's mommy, daddy, baby fork.
00:42:58.780But for my nephew, everything becomes a gun.
00:43:40.500It's pet profession politics has become their child rather than a child themselves.
00:43:48.180And when you channel that natural mothering or nurturing instinct into something that is not a child, whether it's your child or a child that you're mentoring, then I think we see things be perverted.
00:44:00.540And we see them manifest the way that they are now.
00:44:03.780And it creates, I think, a lot of bitterness and resentment.
00:44:06.200It works with the idea that Satan doesn't destroy per se.
00:45:45.500Are you concerned at all that there's such a lack of understanding of the scriptures and such a lack of understanding of hard work or any of the principles that go along with this?
00:47:03.240I don't even have any family members or church members anymore.
00:47:06.360When I think about Christians throughout history, all the times of persecution, Christians alive today in places like China or Yemen or Afghanistan, who they're like, this has to be the end times, right?
00:49:09.080It is all-knowing, all-seeing, instant.
00:49:15.740You know, you read in the book of Revelation about, you know, you're not going to be able to move anywhere, go anywhere, you know, currency, all of it.
00:49:25.460That is a version of what that could be easily.
00:49:31.440And, you know, there wouldn't be a Jew left in the world if Hitler would have had this technology that is just on the horizon.
00:49:41.780I think there are people that are building it that, you know, Sam Altman calls it Sam God.
00:50:02.560And ChatGPT and Grok, that's leaning towards what's called a GI, artificial general intelligence, which means you're a general intelligence being.
00:50:24.760Artificial general intelligence, we are now approaching that line to where it can paint, it can write music, it can write poetry, it can tell you how to build a building, it can tell you, you know, how to build a bomb.
00:52:44.260If they said today, hey, we just spotted a spaceship, you know, just on the other side of Uranus, and it's coming in, it'll be a few months, let's build a welcoming committee.
00:52:57.980I would want to build a welcoming committee.
00:53:01.680But I would also say, should we also not prepare in case they're hostile?
00:55:56.840You don't think China, Russia, whoever that really understands we lose all power, you don't think that Sam Altman's of the world would just disappear at night?
00:56:16.260That the only way to stop it is for states to say, to recognize, which they haven't yet, to recognize how dangerous this is for them, selfishly, for them, and say, no.
00:56:31.540And they just start offing people that are saying, I want ASI.
00:56:42.260But we are we're we're we're entering this time.
00:56:45.960And that's why I think the principles that you preach, the principles that you talk about, the principles that you teach and share are so critically important.
00:56:54.460Because without the Western civilization, understanding of life and the importance of life.
00:57:19.940Maybe the most important three words for anyone, but especially those in Silicon Valley, to realize and to really understand, because that alone puts limitations on what you can do.
00:57:31.620Want to go electric without sacrificing fun?
01:07:47.720I hope that my husband and I can look back and say we built that together and we had so much fun and we took our family, our kids along for the ride every step of the way.
01:08:02.120I hope that in 20 years, all of my kids love and like each other.
01:08:09.060That is like really big goal in my life.
01:08:16.620I want them to be there for each other.
01:08:17.920I want them to have each other's back.
01:08:19.540That is what I spent most of my time as a mom doing.
01:08:22.860Teaching them to love God and love each other.
01:08:24.620And so I hope I can have like these adult children that I love to hang out with and that love to hang out with each other.
01:08:32.600And I hope that I always remembered the most important thing is faithfulness to God.
01:08:38.920Not big contracts, not money, not opportunities, not, you know, clips that go viral or any of that.
01:08:46.200But the steadfast adherence to whatever God's calling is, public or private, at the end of 20 years, if I can say that by the grace of God, then I will feel fulfilled.
01:09:02.180I have a feeling you'll be happy in 20 years.