The Glenn Beck Program - March 30, 2019


Ep 30 ｜ Abby Johnson ｜ The Glenn Beck Podcast


Episode Stats

Length

57 minutes

Words per Minute

127.832146

Word Count

7,376

Sentence Count

539

Misogynist Sentences

50

Hate Speech Sentences

21


Summary

Abby Johnson was a woman who was once the most passionate advocate for abortion. She even won the National Employee of the Year award, and was named a Woman of Courage by the American Psychological Association. But all of that changed when she decided to have an abortion.


Transcript

00:00:00.000 I don't know if you've heard about the controversy surrounding the new movie Unplanned,
00:00:04.680 but it is really important.
00:00:06.700 Many people are viewing the MPAA's decision to slap an R rating on this movie
00:00:11.380 as little more than an attempt to prevent Christians,
00:00:14.320 or just people who don't have any faith at all,
00:00:16.840 who are just going to take their children in,
00:00:19.240 and the rating of R will make them not see it.
00:00:22.900 This is really, really an important movie.
00:00:25.620 The MPAA rating is making it harder for young people to see the consequence
00:00:29.540 of abortion, to see the real, unbelievable, miraculous story of Abby Johnson.
00:00:36.980 And this one scene, I'm promising you, will absolutely cement forever
00:00:41.620 in your child's mind what abortion really is.
00:00:44.700 The movie is Unplanned, and it brings us an eye-opening look inside the abortion industry
00:00:48.920 from a woman who was once its most passionate advocate.
00:00:52.120 She was somebody who was the Planned Parenthood Employee of the Year nationally.
00:00:57.240 Go to unplannedfilm.com.
00:00:59.760 That's unplannedfilm.com.
00:01:02.460 I promise that you will not leave the theater in the same way that you went in,
00:01:05.820 and it will be an uplifting experience.
00:01:08.600 And please bring your teenage children.
00:01:11.740 Unplannedfilm.com.
00:01:13.040 In theaters everywhere now.
00:01:14.840 My guest on today's podcast is a woman who I think is going to change the world,
00:01:33.520 but she's changing it through love.
00:01:36.160 She's always been fiercely determined to help people,
00:01:40.520 to help in particular women who are in crisis.
00:01:43.020 She was a woman who was in crisis twice in her life, with a pregnancy crisis.
00:01:50.240 She aborted two children.
00:01:53.000 When she went through that, she saw these Christians who were shouting,
00:01:58.060 baby killer, and it frightened her.
00:02:00.580 And she wanted to help those women get into the clinic and not have to hear all of that.
00:02:08.720 So she volunteered her time at the local Planned Parenthood, and she rose through the ranks quickly.
00:02:15.440 She became a director of Planned Parenthood, and in fact, in 2009,
00:02:22.440 actually won the Employee of the Year Award, the National Employee of the Year.
00:02:28.620 But she was about to experience something that changed her, and I think may change the abortion battle.
00:02:38.260 It's all in a new movie that just came out called Unplanned.
00:02:44.160 It's also the name of her book about this experience.
00:02:47.440 But this is real life.
00:02:49.680 Today's podcast, the hero, Abby Johnson.
00:02:52.680 Abby, tell me who the people are that go into Planned Parenthood to have an abortion.
00:03:22.680 Yeah, it's a variety of people, mostly college-age women.
00:03:33.040 But our youngest client was 10, and our oldest client was 52.
00:03:45.120 About half of them were repeat patients.
00:03:52.680 You were a repeat patient.
00:03:55.100 Yes.
00:03:59.440 I think the pro-life movement has failed people to some degree because you're a baby killer if you go and have an abortion.
00:04:14.980 And that's the message that I think I've heard from you.
00:04:21.660 That's not true.
00:04:24.580 That's not who people are.
00:04:27.500 It's not.
00:04:28.460 I mean, you know, I originally got involved with Planned Parenthood believing that I was helping women.
00:04:37.380 And these women who were coming in were telling us thank you.
00:04:47.380 You know, when I remember somebody talking about women regretting their abortion procedures, and I thought, that doesn't happen.
00:04:58.800 I've never had a woman, I've never had a woman come in here who said, I wish I wouldn't have done that.
00:05:05.580 They were all so thankful and grateful.
00:05:09.140 And they believed the lie that society has been telling them for many years that in order to provide for your current family and your future family, abortion is a viable option for them.
00:05:31.640 So it's not like they walked in saying, I'm so excited to exercise my right to kill my baby today.
00:05:40.180 They really, I mean, I think about so many of the women, I'm 38 and my mom never had an ultrasound with me.
00:05:51.880 That just was not standard practice.
00:05:55.000 So I think about women during that time, they really, you know, didn't know.
00:06:02.440 So it was, it was sort of out of sheer ignorance, I think.
00:06:06.960 Women today, they know they're pregnant with a baby.
00:06:10.660 So holding up a picture of a six foot image of a aborted baby is not helpful.
00:06:17.920 That's not generally going to phase them because they know the baby has arms and legs and they know that.
00:06:22.700 It's that they have been taught by our society that dehumanizing the baby in order to get ahead, in order to finish your career, in order to put food on the table for your other children that you already have.
00:06:39.760 Because by the way, 60% of women who have abortions already have children at home, that that is the right option for them.
00:06:52.700 So when you look at Margaret Sanger and, and what she really believed, and, um, I mean, I read her.
00:07:22.680 Her stuff, and she was, I believe, a monster, uh, on her belief.
00:07:27.820 She was clearly a racist, um, but she just thought of, you know, children as undesirables and most of them should be eliminated, um, especially in certain communities.
00:07:42.180 How much of that is not, not with the people who are coming in and not even at the people, the local clinics, but up at the top level.
00:07:53.540 Is it, is there a difference between the local clinic and the people up at the top of Planned Parenthood?
00:07:59.460 For sure.
00:08:00.780 Yeah.
00:08:01.120 I mean, your everyday worker in the clinic, in your local clinic, they have no idea about what's going on in upper management.
00:08:15.760 So all these quotas that you have as a director, um, the financial incentives, all of that, that's.
00:08:25.960 Tell me about those quotas and the financial incentives.
00:08:28.560 So each clinic has, and each affiliate sort of breaks down for each clinic, how many abortions you have to sell each month to your patients.
00:08:40.320 And that's how they come up with their budget for abortion services.
00:08:44.520 Which is odd because if you're treating cancer, you're not necessarily saying we've got to go find more kids with cancer.
00:08:52.460 Right.
00:08:53.580 Yeah.
00:08:54.580 Um.
00:08:55.540 And you're happy if cancer patients are down.
00:08:59.160 Right.
00:08:59.700 Exactly.
00:09:00.240 Yeah.
00:09:00.440 No, not in this case.
00:09:01.340 Now that's what they tell people though.
00:09:02.800 They tell people or they used to tell people when I first got involved, safe, legal, rare, right?
00:09:08.400 They don't say that anymore.
00:09:09.660 Now it's just about access, access at any cost.
00:09:13.280 So at the cost of health regulations, at the cost of patient safety, no matter what, we just want abortion as accessible as possible.
00:09:26.800 But, uh, when you are a manager, when you meet those quotas, then there's a financial incentive.
00:09:35.200 So you get a bonus as the manager.
00:09:38.720 Did you hit those bonuses?
00:09:40.640 Oh yeah.
00:09:41.920 Yeah.
00:09:42.440 How do you feel about that money now?
00:09:47.060 You know, uh, I felt like, I mean, I feel like I, I, I do about all the money that I, I mean, I made a lot of money working there.
00:09:58.940 Um, it was all money from corruption, primarily from abortion, pushing my staff to increase abortion numbers.
00:10:09.460 Um, it's disgusting.
00:10:12.580 Um, it's, it's despicable, but that's abortion.
00:10:18.640 It's a business.
00:10:20.380 It's, and that's Planned Parenthood has done a really good job.
00:10:23.280 And the abortion, the abortion business in general has done a really good job of convincing people that, you know, abortion is just this unfortunate decision that women sometimes have to make.
00:10:42.900 So if they're going to make it better, that they make it in a safe, quote unquote, clinic, they don't talk about how they are actually selling patients on abortion.
00:11:00.320 Look, that's the whole purpose of Planned Parenthood being in our public school system.
00:11:09.460 It's not to provide, it's not really to provide sex education to our kids.
00:11:15.540 The purpose of them being in the public school system and in some private school systems is so that they can develop a relationship with your child starting in kindergarten.
00:11:29.280 When your child gets old enough and they start going through puberty and they start having questions about sex.
00:11:35.260 The educators are there to say, and I know they say this because I was an educator and I said this.
00:11:44.820 You can't go to your parents about how you're feeling right now.
00:11:49.580 They won't understand.
00:11:51.300 Oh, my gosh.
00:11:52.240 They don't know what you're going through.
00:11:54.240 But you can come to me because I've known you since you were five.
00:11:58.620 I've known you since you were in kindergarten.
00:12:00.480 You can trust me.
00:12:03.680 And then the goal is we get these girls into our clinics.
00:12:09.080 And by the time they're 11, 12, 13 years old, we have them on a birth control method.
00:12:14.760 And like I said, I'm 38.
00:12:19.180 If you told me, Abby, you have to take a pill at the same time every day within two hours in order for this thing to be effective, I would fail.
00:12:27.300 OK, so if you're asking a 12 year old to do that, she is, of course, you're setting her up for failure.
00:12:34.440 But that's the point.
00:12:35.540 They're putting her on a method that has a high human error rate.
00:12:41.140 And they know that Planned Parenthood's own statistics state that 54 percent of women who have abortions were using contraception at the time they got pregnant.
00:12:50.140 That's the whole point.
00:12:51.940 Put them on a method that has a high human error rate.
00:12:55.900 But these girls will fail.
00:13:00.120 Hopefully, before they graduate high school, they will be into our clinics for their first abortion.
00:13:07.400 And by the way, they don't have to tell their parents that they're having an abortion.
00:13:15.220 So, you know, we have all of these laws in place, parental consent, parental notification, which are all good laws.
00:13:21.060 But the Supreme Court ruled that any time you have parental involvement regarding a minor's abortion decision, that you have to have something called judicial bypass.
00:13:33.060 So here in Texas, for instance, there's an organization called Jane's Due Process.
00:13:38.660 All they do, they're a nonprofit group.
00:13:40.980 All they do is connect girls to judges who will rubber stamp their application for them to be able to get an abortion without their parents' consent.
00:13:53.260 And then by the time they get to college, which, again, they have the abortion.
00:14:00.100 We send them out with yet another pack of birth control pills that we know will eventually fail them.
00:14:07.360 They will fail taking the pill.
00:14:09.140 And by the time they're in college, they'll come back for their second abortion.
00:14:13.860 If we're lucky, by the time this woman is 30, she will have had three abortions.
00:14:20.600 Do you, were there meetings?
00:14:23.360 Do you talk like this in those meetings?
00:14:25.700 If we're lucky, they'll have three abortions?
00:14:27.980 Sure.
00:14:28.600 Yeah.
00:14:31.680 That's their revenue generating model.
00:14:34.380 For example, we were taught to turn every client visit into a revenue generating visit.
00:14:43.180 The only way you can do that, and this was very clearly expressed in management meetings.
00:14:48.940 The only way you can do that is to sell this woman on an abortion if she's pregnant, because Planned Parenthood doesn't provide prenatal care.
00:14:58.160 We can't help her if she wants to continue her pregnancy.
00:15:01.420 It's not like we get kickbacks off of adoption.
00:15:03.620 So if she comes in and she's pregnant, it is our job to sell her an abortion, and they train us then on how to sell that abortion to her.
00:15:15.300 This makes it sound like, I mean, that is not the image of Planned Parenthood.
00:15:20.840 The image is we are just here to provide all kinds of services, and that just happens to be one.
00:15:26.960 And if somebody comes in and needs it, you're describing a scene that is much more like, I don't know, like a car salesman.
00:15:37.540 What do I need to do to get you into this abortion today?
00:15:39.980 Let me go talk to the manager kind of stuff.
00:15:41.920 That's exactly how it is.
00:15:43.760 So we had trainings on how to overcome objections, so particularly religious objections.
00:15:52.860 Like what?
00:15:54.060 So women would come in, about 60% of women who have abortions identify as Christian.
00:16:02.420 So many of the women who would come in would say, I just don't know if God can forgive me if I do this.
00:16:09.900 I don't know if this is a sin.
00:16:11.400 That was a very common thing that we heard.
00:16:14.320 So we were trained then through scripts to talk to them, talk through that objection.
00:16:21.920 So we would say to them, well, but don't you believe in a forgiving God?
00:16:27.720 Don't you believe that God understands your circumstances right now?
00:16:33.260 He knows everything about you, and he understands that you're not in a position right now to be a mother.
00:16:39.300 So it's this idea of presumptive forgiveness that we are pushing on these religious women who are coming in to have abortions.
00:16:48.660 I mean, we had scripts for everything.
00:16:50.660 If a woman came in, let's say we did her ultrasound, and we're going to charge her $150 for that ultrasound, and then she's like, well, I don't know, I don't know, maybe.
00:17:04.180 Then we would say to her, well, if you go ahead and schedule your abortion appointment today, I'm authorized to take that $150 off of the cost of your abortion, but you have to schedule the appointment today.
00:17:17.360 Is there any reason we shouldn't just go ahead and get that scheduled?
00:17:22.420 I mean, you are literally taught how to overcome the objections that women coming in might have for you.
00:17:32.600 And that never seemed bad to you?
00:17:35.520 I didn't even see it.
00:17:37.900 I mean.
00:17:38.860 How long were you there?
00:17:41.500 You started as.
00:17:42.440 Eight years.
00:17:43.440 You came in and you were a client of Planned Parenthood or another abortion clinic?
00:17:48.680 Another abortion clinic.
00:17:50.020 Twice.
00:17:51.160 Well, another abortion clinic for my first abortion, then Planned Parenthood.
00:17:56.080 Okay.
00:17:56.540 And the first abortion clinic was a nightmare.
00:17:59.360 Yeah.
00:18:00.260 And they gave you the morning after pill?
00:18:04.200 No, no, no.
00:18:04.660 I had the surgical abortion there.
00:18:06.380 And then the second abortion.
00:18:10.980 It was the medication abortion.
00:18:12.540 And that was the.
00:18:13.420 That's the RU-46.
00:18:14.760 Right.
00:18:15.240 Yeah.
00:18:15.660 And at least in the film.
00:18:17.940 Yeah.
00:18:18.240 It was even worse in real life.
00:18:20.020 Yeah.
00:18:20.480 And is, is that what it's usually like for women?
00:18:25.800 Yes.
00:18:27.040 Yeah.
00:18:27.600 But we, we would, well, so it sort of became a joke at the clinic because.
00:18:32.300 The management wants to increase the medication abortion because in many states you don't have
00:18:42.960 to have a doctor on site to give out that medication.
00:18:47.180 So they don't have to pay a doctor to give out the medication.
00:18:52.060 So they wanted to increase that number.
00:18:57.480 Planned Parenthood's goal was by 2020 to have 50% of their abortions be the RU-46 pill abortion
00:19:05.900 because it costs less for them if you don't have to have a physician there performing the abortion.
00:19:11.300 And so it sort of became a joke in the clinic because I hated the medication abortion process.
00:19:18.920 I knew that we were lying to women.
00:19:20.900 I had gone through it myself.
00:19:22.680 By what do you mean by lying to women?
00:19:24.680 Oh, we were telling them, oh, it's just like a heavy menstrual cycle, just some minor cramping, a little bit of bleeding.
00:19:31.840 I knew that was a lie.
00:19:32.820 And so it became a joke in the clinic because every time we would have patients there for medication abortions,
00:19:46.040 I would talk them out of it and talk them into doing a surgical abortion, which then takes longer.
00:19:51.220 We can't do it that day.
00:19:52.320 And so my boss stopped letting me counsel the medication abortion clients because I was actually giving them the truth of what those procedures were like.
00:20:04.260 Explain what it's like.
00:20:07.140 So most of the time women pass clots the size of lemons or bigger.
00:20:12.440 That can last for eight weeks.
00:20:15.120 Oh, my gosh.
00:20:15.860 Sometimes women, well, a lot of times the medication abortion procedure won't work.
00:20:26.260 So it will kill the baby.
00:20:28.440 The mifeprax that you take will kill the baby.
00:20:30.800 But the misoprostol will not be effective at actually removing the baby from the uterus.
00:20:36.480 So if it does, the misoprostol's job is to cause cramping, to cause the cervix to contract and the uterus to contract and expel the baby.
00:20:48.260 You expel the baby into the toilet.
00:20:50.120 You flush it down the toilet.
00:20:51.200 Oh, my gosh.
00:20:52.520 If it doesn't work, which many times it doesn't, especially if you're further along in your pregnancy,
00:20:58.840 then part of the baby may come out, but part of it may still be left inside of your uterus.
00:21:04.760 So then you have to go back for a surgical abortion anyway.
00:21:10.560 And then you're recovering from a surgical abortion on top of the traumatic event you just experienced with the medication abortion.
00:21:21.420 And what is the procedure like for the patient if you just have the medical abortion?
00:21:28.240 For the medical abortion, she comes in.
00:21:34.240 She talks with all of her paperwork is completed and filled out by a non-medical staff person.
00:21:43.640 They make sure all the consents are signed, all the legalese is taken care of.
00:21:48.860 And then she goes back with usually a nurse, not always.
00:21:56.120 Sometimes it could be a non-medical staff person, to perform an ultrasound because we want to make sure that she's within that window where she can do the medication abortion.
00:22:07.480 Because you can only do the medication abortion after 12 weeks.
00:22:15.240 And then they give her the pills.
00:22:18.400 They give her the mifeprax in the clinic.
00:22:21.560 That's what actually kills the baby, removes the progesterone.
00:22:26.020 I mean, what is it like if you don't use the, are you, what is it, 486?
00:22:31.480 486.
00:22:32.120 Oh, if you do the surgical.
00:22:33.060 If you have the surgical.
00:22:33.920 So patient comes in, she's in the back room.
00:22:39.340 She goes to, signs all the consents, goes in the procedure room.
00:22:44.580 Doctor begins the procedure.
00:22:47.360 Well, we do an ultrasound.
00:22:48.900 We only did an ultrasound to determine how far along she was in her pregnancy so that we would know exactly how much to charge her for the abortion.
00:22:58.160 The ultrasound is rolled away.
00:23:00.900 And then the doctor.
00:23:02.680 Mom never sees it.
00:23:03.920 No, no, no, no.
00:23:04.700 No, you don't give her the option.
00:23:06.000 You don't tell her you're doing it or anything.
00:23:08.500 She's sedated immediately.
00:23:10.420 So for that reason.
00:23:12.960 For that reason.
00:23:14.180 Yes.
00:23:16.320 Doctor comes in, begins artificially dilating the cervix.
00:23:19.960 So what you hope naturally happens during childbirth, he's going to artificially make that happen.
00:23:24.800 Then he inserts a cannula.
00:23:30.080 It looks like a straw.
00:23:31.080 It's graduated, gets bigger depending on how far along she's in the pregnancy, primarily because the head is bigger the further along she is in her pregnancy.
00:23:40.880 And he inserts that into her uterus and just blindly pokes around in the woman's uterus.
00:23:47.240 Which would be more safe if they were still doing ultrasound at the time, right?
00:23:50.840 Absolutely.
00:23:51.500 And they choose not to do that.
00:23:52.980 They do not.
00:23:53.720 Now, I asked my supervisor if using an ultrasound is safer for the patient, why isn't this the standard procedure?
00:24:03.260 I was told that it is safer, but using an ultrasound during the abortion takes up an extra three minutes of time.
00:24:12.860 And we.
00:24:13.520 This is a factory floor.
00:24:15.940 Sure.
00:24:16.820 I mean, when we were performing abortions, we were doing anywhere between, I don't know, 30 to 50 a day.
00:24:23.420 Oh, my gosh.
00:24:24.440 So if you're adding three minutes of time per patient, that's just additional time for your physician.
00:24:30.840 And so he's performing this abortion.
00:24:34.580 He can't actually see what's happening inside the woman's uterus.
00:24:39.540 So it's no wonder that we see such a high complication rate with uterine perforation where the doctor pokes a hole through the woman's uterus because he can't see when to stop.
00:24:51.860 He can't see where the end of that uterus is.
00:24:55.700 And then after that's completed, the woman goes into the recovery room for a maximum of 20 minutes.
00:25:05.440 And the everything that was suctioned out of her uterus, the baby goes into a lab.
00:25:15.740 And in that lab, there's a technician there that reassembles the parts of the baby to ensure that everything was removed from the woman's uterus.
00:25:25.820 Because if we didn't, if we left a leg or an arm or something, she could develop a, she could become septic.
00:25:31.960 And that can be fatal for her.
00:25:34.380 How do people who are reassembling these children handle that?
00:25:38.740 You know, there's only a specific group of people who are allowed to do it.
00:25:50.080 I think it's the people who have really hardened themselves to the abortion procedure.
00:25:59.400 I did work with a girl one time who was a POC tech for several years.
00:26:08.960 She ended up leaving just completely traumatized.
00:26:14.780 We had done a 17-week abortion.
00:26:19.260 And when she, now that's a D&E, so it's not in a, that's actually removing the pieces of the baby piece by piece.
00:26:27.600 So when she got the tray of all the parts, the torso and the arms were still connected.
00:26:35.640 And she said, I saw this baby's hand move, like clenched into a fist and then opened.
00:26:45.560 And she just lost it and left.
00:26:48.960 But like my supervisor was primarily the one at my clinic who, who was in the POC.
00:27:00.100 Which is products of conception, but you, your staff used to call it.
00:27:05.240 Pieces of children.
00:27:06.120 Pieces of children.
00:27:06.160 Pieces of children.
00:27:08.160 Pieces of children.
00:27:12.500 Pieces of children.
00:27:14.120 Pieces of children.
00:27:14.880 Pieces of children.
00:27:16.940 Pieces of children.
00:27:18.940 What's the oldest child that would go through that you have, that you saw go through?
00:27:27.300 Um, the oldest that I have seen, um, was around 18 weeks, um, in our affiliate.
00:27:43.680 But that's technically 18, that's what they wrote down.
00:27:55.100 Um, but I think, you know, it was probably more like 19, 20 weeks.
00:28:03.460 Um, you know, there's doctors though, across the country that will perform abortions electively
00:28:13.320 up until birth.
00:28:15.980 Um, those facilities actually have incinerators built into their POC labs so that they can incinerate
00:28:28.060 these babies there inside their facility, uh, there was a story extensive, uh, backup for all
00:28:39.220 of this, that they were, that Planned Parenthood wasn't incinerating.
00:28:43.560 They were selling body parts.
00:28:46.700 Did you know about that?
00:28:48.000 Yeah, we did that, uh, we did that, uh, we did that at, at my affiliate, uh, it's very
00:28:55.960 lucrative for the affiliate.
00:28:59.420 So, conservatively, we were probably making about $2.5 million a year on that transaction
00:29:10.180 alone.
00:29:10.580 Oh, my gosh.
00:29:13.940 Tell me about the day that you were called in to assist.
00:29:22.300 Yeah, so, I wasn't often called in to procedure rooms, uh, you know, I was clinic director,
00:29:32.960 I was sort of administrative, not.
00:29:35.860 How long ago, how long after this, when did this take place in relationship to, um, your
00:29:44.620 employee of the year award?
00:29:46.660 So, I received that award in April of 2009.
00:29:52.940 This was in September.
00:29:55.080 Okay, and you were proud of that award?
00:29:59.480 Oh, yeah.
00:30:00.140 Yeah, and you got it because you were making so much money?
00:30:04.700 Mm-hmm.
00:30:06.520 Yeah.
00:30:07.760 In the movie, it shows that at that point, you started to question, and there was a beginning
00:30:14.400 of a falling out, is, did that happen?
00:30:18.140 Yes.
00:30:18.720 A couple things had happened.
00:30:20.940 We were breaking ground on our new facility in Houston that was, um, built in order to
00:30:28.840 perform abortions through six months of pregnancy, which was, that was a little too far, uh, for
00:30:37.200 me.
00:30:37.400 I felt like now we're dabbling into viability issues, and that was my line in the sand.
00:30:46.060 Um, so that was the first thing.
00:30:49.600 Did it bother you that viability was getting closer and closer to where you were?
00:30:54.720 Yeah.
00:30:55.160 Yeah, okay.
00:30:55.900 It did, yeah.
00:30:56.600 And I was very aware of that.
00:30:59.360 You know, I sort of.
00:31:00.960 Kind of the wrong side of science or wrong side of history.
00:31:03.700 Yeah.
00:31:03.900 Feeling.
00:31:04.300 I was, uh, I remember one time I was reading, I'd always thought viability was at 24 weeks.
00:31:10.880 So then I was reading this article in People Magazine one time about this little girl that
00:31:16.560 was born at 22 weeks.
00:31:18.180 And I was like, oh gosh, it's, it's creeping back.
00:31:22.600 You know, that line is creeping back.
00:31:24.720 That made me feel very uncomfortable to know that we were now going to be surpassing that
00:31:30.760 line.
00:31:31.100 Um, so that had happened.
00:31:35.240 Then the abortion quota discussion that we were supposed to be doubling our quota took
00:31:40.700 place.
00:31:41.920 And I just thought, what in the world?
00:31:46.120 Why is this?
00:31:47.280 I, at the time, you know, I didn't know if it was that the organization was changing or
00:31:55.400 if it was just that now I was so high up in management, I was actually seeing what we had
00:32:01.160 been about all along.
00:32:02.840 And I realized now it was the latter.
00:32:05.240 This, this had always been us.
00:32:07.220 I just was never privy to what was taking place at these higher levels of management until
00:32:14.780 I became part of it.
00:32:16.580 So that caused a great deal of strife between me and my, my supervisor.
00:32:26.680 I just, I just couldn't believe what I was hearing.
00:32:29.860 And I was really trying to fight back against it.
00:32:35.140 And, um, she did not like that.
00:32:39.400 So, um, you know, she, she did not like that.
00:32:44.100 I was going against her orders and being combative and arguing with her.
00:32:50.580 So there'd been some tension there.
00:32:54.180 And that was really the first time where I, I remember thinking, maybe this isn't where
00:33:00.040 I'm going to be for the rest of my life.
00:33:01.940 I thought that I would retire with Planned Parenthood.
00:33:05.220 And that was really the first time where I thought, maybe not, maybe there is something
00:33:09.660 else out there for me.
00:33:10.740 Never thinking, maybe I'm going to be pro-life one day.
00:33:16.000 Um, but just thinking, you know, maybe this isn't it.
00:33:18.660 Um, and, and so that, that was really, there had been several things that had happened that
00:33:26.560 year to sort of lead up to that pivotal moment.
00:33:29.960 And that pivotal moment that made you quit Planned Parenthood and become pro-life was what?
00:33:39.920 I was asked to come in and assist during an ultrasound guided abortion procedure.
00:33:47.660 We had a visiting physician come in that day who ran his own private practice and he only
00:33:55.260 did ultrasound guided procedures in his own practice, explaining to me that it was safer.
00:34:00.800 Right.
00:34:01.720 Um, so he thought that he would just sort of show us what this looked like.
00:34:07.140 He thought it would be interesting for us to, to watch this different type of abortion take
00:34:14.100 place.
00:34:15.140 So because he needed an extra set of hands, literally to hold the ultrasound probe.
00:34:21.740 And I was the clinic director, I was called in to assist and, um, never assisted an abortion
00:34:32.060 before I'd been inside the room holding the hand of a girl that was scared or something
00:34:37.760 like that.
00:34:38.260 But actually being on the business end of abortion, that was not something I'd ever done.
00:34:42.540 Um, which is funny cause you were, you were actually on the business end of abortion.
00:34:49.740 Um, and so I, we did the measurement.
00:34:53.520 We found that the woman was 13 weeks along and I just, I stood there really shocked as I
00:35:04.960 watched this 13 week old baby move away, um, try to get away from this, this suction cannula
00:35:18.240 and the suction wasn't yet turned on.
00:35:21.900 And I just, I couldn't believe it.
00:35:24.420 I remember, you know, thinking I should say something.
00:35:29.420 I should, I should do something.
00:35:31.740 I should sit this woman up and, and show her this screen.
00:35:36.460 I mean, I felt like I felt the urge to do something, but I didn't.
00:35:41.480 I just, I was so frozen staring at that screen.
00:35:45.860 I wanted to look away, but I couldn't.
00:35:50.240 And when the doctor had the cannula in the right position, he asked the technician to turn
00:35:59.020 out on the suction machine and he said, beam me up Scotty.
00:36:03.920 And I watched this, this baby, um, pieces of it just disappear into that suction cannula
00:36:17.800 until the screen was black.
00:36:20.240 And I knew that that meant, uh, the abortion had been successful.
00:36:29.460 What'd you do after that?
00:36:33.140 I went to my office.
00:36:36.000 Um, I didn't know what to think.
00:36:42.300 Um, I kept checking on the woman in recovery.
00:36:47.520 I felt like I held the secret that I wanted to share with her, but I, I couldn't.
00:36:54.700 Secret that your son or daughter fought for his life.
00:36:58.140 Yeah.
00:37:00.580 Um, that I knew it was a boy.
00:37:03.840 Um, and I, I felt like I, I held all of this, but I, I wanted to share it, but I couldn't.
00:37:16.880 And so I, um, I kept checking on her and going back to my office and, um, I left that day.
00:37:29.060 I, I, I went home and I talked to my husband about what I had seen, my husband who had always
00:37:34.820 been pro-life.
00:37:35.700 So we didn't really talk about my job.
00:37:39.080 And I just said, I have to tell you about what I saw today.
00:37:46.080 And I started describing it.
00:37:47.620 And he was like, Abby, I, I really don't want to, I don't want to hear this.
00:37:52.580 And I said, well, you have to, because I have to talk to somebody about it.
00:37:56.440 And I don't know who else to talk to.
00:37:59.060 And he didn't want to hear it because he, he had been telling you the whole time, this
00:38:03.500 is not you.
00:38:04.400 This is, this is wrong.
00:38:06.020 You shouldn't be there.
00:38:07.180 Right.
00:38:08.020 And he was expecting that you would tell him and then say, well, I got to go to work.
00:38:15.040 I think he didn't know what, what I was going to do.
00:38:18.100 I, I, I remember after I, I recount this to him and he could have said, well, I told you
00:38:25.660 so I've been telling you for eight years.
00:38:27.560 You know, he didn't, he, he just looked at me and he said, well, what are you going to
00:38:34.320 do now?
00:38:36.480 And I said, I don't know.
00:38:39.080 And he said, Abby, you know, the truth, what are you going to do now?
00:38:43.820 And I said, I think I'm going to have to leave.
00:38:49.780 And that was terrifying.
00:38:52.360 Just, um, the thought of leaving behind this salary, leaving behind all my friends, um,
00:39:06.500 leaving behind this identity that had become part of who I was.
00:39:12.860 So, you know, I was like, who am I, if I'm not this person, who, who am I?
00:39:19.680 Um, and then having to admit what I had done and what I had been a part of and having to
00:39:30.320 face that's a hard thing to face.
00:39:33.440 Before we get there, did you, you had to face Planned Parenthood first, didn't you?
00:39:38.640 I did.
00:39:39.120 Yeah.
00:39:39.820 And they were not happy.
00:39:42.060 No, they were not.
00:39:44.380 What happened?
00:39:45.920 Uh, about three weeks after I left, I was served papers from Planned Parenthood.
00:39:53.020 Uh, they had gotten a temporary restraining order of disclosure.
00:39:57.540 So a temporary gag order against me.
00:40:02.600 Um, and I was so surprised.
00:40:07.440 I remember getting it and just thinking, what?
00:40:12.800 These people were my friends.
00:40:14.660 Like, I just, I was so, I was still just so naive.
00:40:19.300 I really.
00:40:19.960 Did you plan on speaking out at that time?
00:40:21.920 Never.
00:40:22.820 No, no.
00:40:23.940 I already had another job lined up that I was going to start in November.
00:40:27.560 This was late October, uh, running an OB Gens practice and never planned on telling my story.
00:40:37.940 But when they sued me, they sent out a press release about it.
00:40:42.960 Planned Parenthood did.
00:40:44.020 And that was picked up by the AP.
00:40:46.740 And that's what got circulated around to all these news outlets and really sort of
00:40:52.240 forced me.
00:40:52.980 What did it say about you?
00:40:54.480 It just said that they, um, regretfully had taken action to protect patient confidentiality and, uh, that they were, they were seeking a permanent restraining order of disclosure against me.
00:41:15.600 Which then the media was like, well, what does she know, right?
00:41:19.340 That piqued their interest.
00:41:21.580 And so, I mean, honestly, if it hadn't have been for their press release, I don't know that my story would have really ever gotten out there.
00:41:32.640 Wow.
00:41:43.660 Take me through the trial.
00:41:45.140 How long did it last?
00:41:46.360 In the movie, it was, you know, a minute.
00:41:48.840 Yeah, I think it was like 53 minutes total.
00:41:53.120 Uh, we went in and of course I knew all their attorneys because I'd worked with them before.
00:41:58.440 So it was all very awkward for me because there's like Planned Parenthood board members and my supervisor and my two best friends who were now testifying against me.
00:42:09.660 And I just, I just, I just thought, oh my gosh, what is happening?
00:42:12.860 I, um, I honestly thought they would respect my choice.
00:42:21.620 We're selling baby parts and killing children.
00:42:26.320 They should respect your choice.
00:42:28.440 I thought, well.
00:42:30.980 You were, you were in it.
00:42:33.880 You were honest about it.
00:42:36.760 You, you honestly didn't see the problem.
00:42:41.100 You honestly thought that the people who were Christians out front who were wearing the, you know, the death mask and screaming murderer, um, you honestly were trying to protect those women.
00:42:53.020 Yes.
00:42:53.920 And so you didn't realize at the time that so many of them knew exactly what you had just found out and they didn't have a problem with it.
00:43:04.180 Um, I mean, I, I was just so naive that at that time I, I just thought, well, I'm going to leave and Planned Parenthood is pro-choice and now I don't believe in abortion.
00:43:20.940 So they're going to respect my choice.
00:43:25.320 Um, yeah, I was just really stupid at that time.
00:43:30.340 I, I really was, I didn't realize what a threat I was to them, what a threat former workers are to them.
00:43:40.160 And we went to court and, uh.
00:43:44.060 Did they say what they said in the movie in the hallway?
00:43:47.100 Yeah.
00:43:47.880 What was it?
00:43:48.840 Um, she had, she had said that, um, well, they had made fun of my attorney because he was basically like an ambulance chaser who had billboards up all over town.
00:44:07.380 Um, but he, man, he hated Planned Parenthood, so he was ready to, you know, he's ready to go to bat.
00:44:14.220 Um, they made fun of my attorney and, uh, I just remember after we won, it was like, this isn't over.
00:44:25.660 And.
00:44:26.580 They said that to you.
00:44:27.740 Yeah.
00:44:27.960 And we were like, no, I, I think it's over.
00:44:32.100 Were you, were you listening in there?
00:44:33.800 I think it was, yeah, I think we won, but the courtroom was just crazy.
00:44:39.380 They were, uh, my boss got up on the stand.
00:44:43.960 My attorney was so great.
00:44:46.620 He was asking her these questions and he said, you know, do you believe that Ms. Johnson, uh, took any confidential patient information, any proprietary information?
00:45:00.820 And she said, well, we don't know.
00:45:03.400 And he said, well, don't you have electronic records?
00:45:06.640 You can see that.
00:45:08.420 And he said, what did the electronic records show?
00:45:10.940 Well, it showed she didn't take anything.
00:45:12.840 Okay.
00:45:14.080 And he said, so what's this really about?
00:45:16.080 I mean, what is this about security?
00:45:19.180 Co alarm code?
00:45:20.440 I mean, what is this about?
00:45:21.500 And she said, well, yeah, I mean, she knows our alarm code.
00:45:25.040 And he said, change that.
00:45:27.480 Yeah.
00:45:27.600 He said, well, you haven't changed that since she left.
00:45:31.520 And he, she said, no, we, we did.
00:45:34.320 And so my attorney, like, so, I mean, he was just so serious.
00:45:38.620 He goes, do you believe that Mrs. Johnson is somehow clairvoyant and we'll be able to have access to this code?
00:45:48.920 And I swear, she looked right at him and she goes, well, I don't know.
00:45:53.720 It was just, it was just a circus.
00:45:56.280 It was ridiculous.
00:45:57.880 And so they presented first.
00:46:01.140 And when they got done, my attorney just stood up and said, this is ridiculous, judge, and asked for a directed verdict.
00:46:10.500 And the judge said, you have nothing.
00:46:13.000 This is over.
00:46:14.320 And that was it.
00:46:15.960 Hassled by them after?
00:46:18.920 Not really.
00:46:20.020 Every once in a while, I would say something and then they would make a statement calling me a liar.
00:46:24.560 And then I would provide proof of what I was saying.
00:46:26.980 And then they would have to come back and say, oh, well, okay, well, yeah, we did do that.
00:46:33.460 And so now when I say something, they just.
00:46:35.940 Leave it alone.
00:46:36.360 They just shut up because they don't know.
00:46:37.920 I think they don't know what evidence I may have.
00:46:40.660 Let me go to the, the healing of yourself.
00:46:48.920 You honestly didn't know.
00:46:51.480 You honestly felt like this was the right thing to do.
00:46:54.700 You honestly thought you were helping people.
00:46:57.260 When you found out you weren't, you got out and you were honest about it.
00:47:01.420 But going home and counting, you had to have counted the number of children.
00:47:08.040 I did.
00:47:09.960 22,000.
00:47:11.800 It's a big number.
00:47:12.780 And as you were counting those and you were in that space, what were you thinking?
00:47:22.000 Well, when I was first counting them and I came to that number, honestly, I just, I really
00:47:36.540 didn't know how to live with that kind of burden.
00:47:38.560 And, um, I didn't know if I wanted to, I just thought, how do you, how do you live with
00:47:45.240 that?
00:47:45.420 How do you process that?
00:47:47.580 Um, thankfully I grew up with a really strong faith foundation.
00:47:52.760 So, you know, I grew up believing that God does forgive us when we're truly repentant.
00:48:01.580 And I, I truly was.
00:48:05.320 Um, and I, you know, I was reminded that I could never go back and write my wrong.
00:48:17.280 Um, um, that wasn't required of me anyway, but I just, I remember when I was feeling such
00:48:28.020 despair over just the sheer amount of children, um, God just kept reminding me that it was over
00:48:40.560 and, uh, uh, that he had won.
00:48:46.480 And I remember one time I was watching that movie Kung Fu Panda with my daughter and, uh,
00:48:53.640 this was not long after I'd left and there's like this wise old turtle, right?
00:48:59.060 And this little mouse thing and the turtles dying and the mouse is talking to him and the
00:49:07.220 turtle says, um, do you know why today is called the present?
00:49:13.160 Because it is a gift.
00:49:15.520 And I thought, that's so right.
00:49:18.840 You know, I, I can wake up every day and relive my past and wallow in that for the rest of
00:49:25.940 my life, knowing that I can never change it.
00:49:29.020 I can never go back or I can release myself of it with God's help.
00:49:36.160 And I can live every day right now for him doing the best that I can do by doing everything
00:49:47.120 I can to save the unborn, to facilitate healing, uh, among men and women who have been touched
00:49:54.740 by abortion, to help bring abortion clinic workers out of the industry.
00:50:01.200 And I feel like when you're, when you're living in that space, when you're living in the present,
00:50:06.660 um, God doesn't really allow you time to continue to go back because you're busy, you're busy.
00:50:17.120 Fulfilling his will for your life.
00:50:20.800 Where'd you make your mistake?
00:50:25.360 Um, well, it's going to sound crazy, but I can tell you where I made my mistake.
00:50:32.400 Um, I made my mistake, uh, when I went to college.
00:50:41.580 And I, um, started living a life of immodesty in my speech and my behavior and my dress.
00:50:58.780 I saw that that attracted guys.
00:51:03.020 Um, that was a tension that I wanted.
00:51:08.360 I had my first unplanned pregnancy, had my abortion.
00:51:15.300 I believe that was when abortion and, and that sin that led me down that road, that's when
00:51:23.860 it entered.
00:51:24.340 Um, and it was just one poor choice after another, but it started way back before I actually laid
00:51:37.940 on that table the first time it was the decisions I was making that led to that unplanned pregnancy.
00:51:46.120 Um, and I've been, I mean, I've been raised better than that.
00:51:50.600 I've been taught.
00:51:52.000 Most of us have.
00:51:53.320 Yeah.
00:51:54.820 Um, last two questions.
00:52:00.280 Talk directly to, uh, those who are in the pro-life movement, but maybe are not behaving
00:52:10.760 in such a way that would have captured you.
00:52:14.240 Yeah.
00:52:21.140 I hear sometimes people who are less effective in the pro-life movement say, well, I just
00:52:30.000 have to do what God's telling me to do.
00:52:34.180 God is never going to tell you to yell at a woman who's in crisis.
00:52:39.340 That's not who God is.
00:52:40.760 He is never going to tell you to intimidate a woman who is scared and feeling vulnerable.
00:52:55.000 There are lives literally hanging in the balance here.
00:53:01.740 Our effectiveness should be of utmost importance.
00:53:07.080 And I think we have a skewed.
00:53:14.260 I remember one time this lady got super mad at me because, uh, she said, well, God tells
00:53:19.320 me to, to bring these signs and to talk to the women the way I do.
00:53:23.540 And she said, you know, she, he tells me, and I said, you know, when I worked in the clinic,
00:53:29.000 I thought God was telling me to work there too.
00:53:32.220 I said, sometimes the voice you hear is not God.
00:53:34.500 And God is never going to force himself on anyone else.
00:53:40.040 I always say God's a gentleman and he works off of invitation, not by force.
00:53:47.460 And all you are doing is creating a safe haven inside the abortion clinic.
00:53:58.060 This, this is not about us being right and then being wrong.
00:54:03.680 There was some saint that I don't know who it was, but he said, when an argument lose a
00:54:07.900 soul, I'm not trying to win an argument here.
00:54:11.460 Here I'm trying to save a life.
00:54:14.020 I'm trying to save a woman from a lifetime of regret and shame that matters.
00:54:20.020 And our behavior toward that woman is really the only thing that matters when we're on the
00:54:26.880 sidewalk because we can't save her child unless we reach her first.
00:54:30.840 And that type of behavior, just this over the top behavior is, it's never going to bring
00:54:43.080 anyone to you.
00:54:44.140 There's never a time where a young woman in crisis is going to say, I want to walk up to
00:54:49.720 that lady that's calling me a murderer.
00:54:51.540 It doesn't happen.
00:54:53.040 Now talk to the woman who's in this situation or girl, you know, it's a scary thing to be
00:55:04.380 in a crisis pregnancy.
00:55:05.340 I've, I've had a couple and, uh, I think it's, I think we live in a society where secular feminism
00:55:19.780 is running rampant and telling women that telling women, everything that they can't do and exploiting
00:55:27.800 their weakness and exploiting their vulnerability.
00:55:33.180 And women come to me all the time through email or my website and they'll say, Abby, I just
00:55:42.100 can't do it.
00:55:42.920 And I just, I just tell them you can do it.
00:55:47.200 You are doing it.
00:55:49.780 And I'm going to be there to help do it with you.
00:55:52.900 We are not meant to parent, to live in isolation.
00:56:00.700 We're meant to do it in community with help.
00:56:04.480 And there are so many people in the pro-life movement who want to pregnancy resource centers
00:56:10.160 who want to come around these, these women who are in crisis and truly accompany them on
00:56:18.140 their journey.
00:56:19.860 And so I would just encourage women to find those people who want to be your cheerleader
00:56:25.860 because they are out there and they're probably most likely through your local pregnancy help
00:56:30.780 center.
00:56:31.060 It's an honor to meet you.
00:56:33.480 It's an honor to know you.
00:56:36.220 I, I think we live in the age of miracles again.
00:56:43.620 And I think we're going to see an end to this because it's barbaric.
00:56:50.280 You look at it with the eyes from a hundred years from now, they'll look at it as slavery.
00:56:56.300 Right.
00:56:57.600 And we're on the wrong side of history and you will be remembered as I hope one of the
00:57:06.980 real keys to turn this engine off.
00:57:10.040 Just a reminder, I'd love you to rate and subscribe to the podcast and pass this on to a friend
00:57:22.920 so it can be discovered by other people.
00:57:40.040 Thank you.
00:57:41.040 Thank you.