The Glenn Beck Program - Ep 31 ｜ Matt Kibbe

00:00:00.000 I want to tell you about a movie called Unplanned.

00:00:02.940 I don't know if you've heard, but MPAA has decided to slap an R rating on it.

00:00:08.440 And it's crazy to do this.

00:00:10.180 This is so far away from an R rating.

00:00:12.580 The reason why it has an R rating is because there is a CGI scene that lasts maybe 30 seconds tops.

00:00:18.960 And it is of a baby CGI on an ultrasound fighting its abortion.

00:00:24.580 It's crazy.

00:00:25.740 It's a true story about Abby Johnson and Planned Parenthood.

00:00:29.400 This, I think, is a game changing movie.

00:00:32.460 So much so, I have volunteered my time to be able to tell this story and to get people to come.

00:00:38.320 So please go to unplannedfilm.com.

00:00:41.420 That's unplannedfilm.com.

00:00:43.700 It will change you.

00:00:44.760 You and I have known each other for a long time, and I hate to use this word, but it's gotten progressively worse in the nation.

00:01:05.460 Things that we thought, oh, we'd never see, never see.

00:01:09.380 Things that were crazy to say 10 years ago are now being said every day by socialists.

00:01:16.520 The media is trying to make socialists still into a bad word.

00:01:23.120 They're saying, oh, the GOP is just going to throw around the word socialist.

00:01:28.000 I want to spend some time with you on what a socialist is and all of the many dimensions of socialism.

00:01:36.300 Is there good socialism?

00:01:37.540 We know there's bad socialism.

00:01:39.060 What's the difference?

00:01:40.280 What's Sweden?

00:01:41.080 What's Venezuela?

00:01:41.780 And what are people really talking about here?

00:01:44.820 Let's do it.

00:01:45.480 Okay.

00:01:45.820 Let's do it.

00:01:46.480 So they say that they're talking about Swedish socialism, Canadian socialism.

00:01:52.840 Yeah.

00:01:53.380 But already their proposals are going further than Canada on just health care alone.

00:01:59.560 Canada said that was unconstitutional.

00:02:02.080 What they're proposing.

00:02:04.300 Yeah.

00:02:04.900 Like, it's fascinating to me that the modern Democratic Party has not only sort of allowed the S word into their vocabulary, but it's almost a litmus test now.

00:02:18.700 Yeah.

00:02:18.880 It strikes me that everybody has to pledge some sort of fealty to this idea of democratic socialism.

00:02:27.940 And, you know, in some ways they're chasing rainbows.

00:02:29.800 They've seen AOC and how she succeeded on social media, and they think that, oh, let's go there.

00:02:37.700 Let's do that.

00:02:38.540 So part of it is sort of cynical virtue signaling and all of that kind of stuff.

00:02:43.960 And, you know, when you talk to young people, they don't mean the kind of socialism that you and I know.

00:02:49.060 Okay, so tell me, let's start with the socialism that you and I know and the difference between what young people are gravitating to.

00:03:01.220 So socialism, as we understand it, means the government owns everything.

00:03:07.520 The government owns the means of production.

00:03:09.380 Right.

00:03:09.500 And so it's a single, top-down, centralized, centrally planned, not just economy, but world where the smart people in power are going to redesign things, presumably in a fairer way.

00:03:24.320 Right.

00:03:24.780 And from the top down, the way that that has manifested itself in history has been horribly brutal.

00:03:36.700 Right.

00:03:37.140 The best killing machine ever designed by man.

00:03:40.780 And if you go back to Marx, and he has this sort of determinist arc of history where he talks about feudalism, late-stage capitalism, socialism, communism.

00:03:53.980 And it's important to actually go back and read what Marx talked about because socialism is not the end.

00:04:00.520 So when someone describes himself as a socialist today, I think Marx would be sort of mystified because the goal was not socialism.

00:04:07.560 The goal was communism.

00:04:08.440 But the Marxist philosophy and comments by Engels and Marx and certainly Lenin and the first sort of practitioners of socialism, socialism was a very brutal, violent thing.

00:04:23.460 It was where you took out all of the unfavored classes, you took out all the unbelievers, you murdered them.

00:04:32.720 And they talked about it as a fundamentally violent thing.

00:04:35.620 We're going to have to reset society away from late-stage capitalism where you have the division of labor and you have work for wages and all of these things that are really bad in the socialist ideology.

00:04:50.900 But the problem is people are used to that sort of stuff.

00:04:53.940 So if they're not going to get on the team, we take them out.

00:04:56.900 And so there's a violence built into this theory of social change, starting with Marx.

00:05:05.340 And, you know, eventually you get to this thing called communism that is, you know, there's no longer prices.

00:05:11.240 There's no longer money.

00:05:12.700 There's no longer workers working for salaries.

00:05:15.300 And there certainly aren't any capitalists.

00:05:18.260 There aren't rich people that are lording over you.

00:05:21.260 No, except there are.

00:05:22.560 I mean, Maduro.

00:05:23.840 I mean, he was a bus driver.

00:05:25.100 Right.

00:05:25.460 Now he's the wealthiest man in Venezuela.

00:05:28.800 And word is absconding with much of the gold.

00:05:34.500 You know, if he's driven out, he'll take much of the gold, they believe.

00:05:37.800 So there are they they may not start rich, but doesn't it always end with the rich people with new rich people lording over everybody else?

00:05:47.920 And that's sort of the dilemma.

00:05:49.200 They have this sort of romantic idea that we can somehow eliminate power structures if we can just get through this brutal phase of violent socialism.

00:05:58.940 But that's not how it works.

00:06:00.240 And, you know, one of the fundamental critiques of socialism, and I think democratic socialists are going to have a fundamental problem with this, is in order to redesign society that way, you have to centralize everything.

00:06:10.540 You have to give somebody a lot of power.

00:06:13.640 And Maduro is a great example of this.

00:06:15.960 He he is sort of the caricature of Hugo Chavez in that in the same way that that you had Lenin and then you had Stalin.

00:06:26.180 And it's not at all clear that that Stalin or Maduro are sort of ideologically motivated people.

00:06:33.700 They're just power hungry, willing to do anything to keep power.

00:06:38.080 And that that standard authoritarian stuff, you could call it socialism, you could call it fascism, you could call it whatever you like.

00:06:44.940 But whenever you concentrate that much power, there's there is a rich guy.

00:06:50.160 He's not a capitalist politician.

00:06:52.440 And that politician is willing to do anything.

00:06:57.540 People will say that what Maduro is doing, that's not democratic socialism.

00:07:01.740 Well, yes, it is.

00:07:03.880 They voted him in.

00:07:06.040 Yeah.

00:07:06.320 And this is the way you could have Jesus as the leader of your country and everything would say, fine.

00:07:12.140 And if Jesus didn't happen to live throughout all eternity, you know, he died or needed to be replaced.

00:07:19.080 It's the next guy and the next guy and the next guy that you worry about.

00:07:23.140 Yeah.

00:07:23.360 You know what is I warned Democrats on Obama.

00:07:28.100 Don't give him this much power because your guy's not always going to be in.

00:07:32.940 Now they're screaming about Donald Trump using much of the same powers that they gave Barack Obama and the Republicans.

00:07:42.000 I'm warning now, your guy's not always going to be in.

00:07:44.500 Don't give them this much power.

00:07:47.000 Yeah.

00:07:47.380 And so it was a democratic socialist nation.

00:07:51.600 It always it it seems to always end in the same way to where they just suspend elections or they make them so dirty that it's not a real election.

00:08:02.240 And that's who you have.

00:08:03.720 You look at look at the rise of Hugo Chavez and compare it to what's going on in the Democratic Party today.

00:08:10.200 And it's it's chillingly similar because he was, you know, before he was a socialist ideologue, he was he was he was he was a populist.

00:08:17.420 And he was appealing to the the campesinos, the the farming working poor class in Venezuela saying you're getting screwed.

00:08:25.480 And frankly, they probably were because the the preceding regime was was hardly free market capitalism.

00:08:32.840 It was it was insider cronyism, cronyism, quite typical.

00:08:36.800 So they were raging against the right thing.

00:08:38.680 But the but the alternative sort of populist democratic socialism, it it quickly devolved where where Chavez accumulated more and more power and eventually suspended the Constitution limits on himself and eventually nationalized the oil fields and the farmlands and all the things that that you look at it today.

00:09:03.400 Venezuela was one of the richest countries, maybe even 20 years ago, richest country in Latin America, and they can't feed themselves now.

00:09:12.700 And they're sitting on all these oil reserves.

00:09:14.640 But the lights just went out.

00:09:16.000 It's a scene right out.

00:09:17.040 It's out out of Atlas Shrugged.

00:09:18.620 Yeah.

00:09:18.820 Remember this movie, right?

00:09:20.320 Yeah.

00:09:20.500 The lights go out.

00:09:22.700 Venezuela, richest country in Latin America 20 years ago.

00:09:26.700 The light just went out.

00:09:27.600 When you're looking at things like Venezuela and Hugo Chavez and you say it looks an awful lot like what's happening to the Democratic Party.

00:09:40.020 How do you mean appealing to the populist urges of of of sort of tax the rich at 70 percent, break up, break up the media companies, break up the energy companies,

00:09:55.600 hold gun companies, personally liable, all of that rhetoric sort of sort of at its core sort of anti capitalist anti I hate the fact that the means of production are in private hands because those guys will exploit us.

00:10:11.160 Elizabeth Warren is talking about having the United States government make medicine.

00:10:15.340 Yeah, I think that's the worst idea I've ever heard for multiple reasons.

00:10:19.700 But one, I don't I don't understand how the people who are for this think that the government is so bad, so inefficient, and it is, and then want to give it more power.

00:10:31.740 They think the government is so dangerous.

00:10:33.600 Donald Trump or Barack Obama is so dangerous.

00:10:36.120 Let's give up our guns.

00:10:37.520 Yeah.

00:10:38.020 It just doesn't even make any kind of logical sense.

00:10:41.200 And it's not logic, and I think I sort of learned the hard way as an economist by training, and I always wanted people to sort of think through costs and benefits and perverse incentives and all that stuff.

00:10:54.720 Nobody wants to do that.

00:10:55.500 That's not how, I don't think that's even how people process information.

00:10:58.760 I think we process information through our emotions and the emotional appeal of Medicare for all is that there's going to be health care for everybody.

00:11:10.500 And that's important, right?

00:11:11.660 Everyone should have health care.

00:11:13.060 We are, we are, it is a, even if you take it to God, it is a godly thing to share your wealth and your bread.

00:11:23.980 I mean, we're supposed to.

00:11:25.000 So that's what we, if you were raised in a Bible-believing household, that's what you were taught, share, share.

00:11:35.380 But the difference between sharing and socialism is the point of a gun.

00:11:42.240 Yeah.

00:11:43.020 I want to choose to share.

00:11:44.980 I want to choose to be charitable.

00:11:46.600 I want to help.

00:11:47.240 And I want to find the things that I'm passionate about that I can help.

00:11:50.820 And some people won't do it, but a lot of people will.

00:11:55.000 And we've, we've crushed the soul of people wanting to help, uh, and, and making it more and more impossible.

00:12:05.420 You go back and watch, uh, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez's first video, the one that made her a viable candidate.

00:12:13.960 And a lot of her rhetoric, she talks about dignity.

00:12:17.260 She talks about how the people in Washington, the insiders don't respect you.

00:12:22.560 She talks about the collusion between big government and big business.

00:12:26.400 And she talks about getting back to community and how we need to help each other, how we need a voice in the process, how we can come together and, and make things better from the bottom up.

00:12:37.460 And all of that I agree with.

00:12:39.040 And that's not socialism.

00:12:40.420 That's, that's precisely the opposite of that.

00:12:43.200 So it's to the extent that it's socialism, it's social.

00:12:46.820 And, and you, you said it earlier, and this is fundamental, like compassion doesn't work at the end of a gun.

00:12:53.740 Can't force someone to care about their neighbors.

00:12:56.360 And to the extent that you've outsourced that to a third party, a government, um, particularly a government that's far away, um, you know, people get, they start to get cynical.

00:13:06.940 They start to get bitter and they're like, well, I, I pay so much in taxes.

00:13:10.380 Why, why do I have to help again?

00:13:12.300 Why, why should I do that?

00:13:14.380 So I think, I think for, for people that are sort of attracted to that narrative, um, we should, we should spend a lot more time explaining how it is that, that freedom actually works.

00:13:25.760 And how it is that free people do feel inability to cooperate and, and share their, their personal dreams and skills and knowledge and come together and create really beautiful things.

00:13:38.100 We don't, we don't do that so much.

00:13:39.480 So I happen to believe now I come from a different place cause I come from a God place and I know there's a ton of people that don't, and they don't think it's even necessary.

00:13:48.800 And I know people like Penn Jillette, it's not, he just innately is this way.

00:13:53.100 Um, but, uh, you know, I think Ayn Rand, I love Ayn Rand.

00:14:00.560 I love what she says.

00:14:02.360 I love the, the vision of the strong individual standing up.

00:14:07.100 However, she misses that, that point of heart.

00:14:11.780 Yeah.

00:14:12.360 And so it seems so cold and distant and really, I think in some ways it is when you talk to real people who are really diehard Ayn Randers.

00:14:23.480 Right.

00:14:23.840 They're like, charity is bad.

00:14:25.120 Right.

00:14:25.820 Yeah.

00:14:26.080 And, and I, I, I defend her and, and she was very influential when I was a, when I was a kid, I, I discovered Ayn Rand reading the liner notes on a rush album.

00:14:34.960 So she, she, she was my first breadcrumb that led me to Adam Smith and the Austrian economists and all of that.

00:14:41.960 And, and, you know, in context, it's important to remember that, that she, as a young Jewish girl fled the Bolshevik revolution and think about the guts that that took.

00:14:54.040 Oh yeah.

00:14:54.240 Yeah. And, but also the, the, the permanent scars, like I had to leave my family and come to America and make it on my own.

00:15:01.780 So a lot of her, when she talks about selfishness, see what she's, I think what she's saying is I want to be myself and I don't want some brutal government to tell me who I am.

00:15:12.960 So if you try to screw you and, and, and, and a lot of her, her sort of, when she talks about selfishness and individualism and, and, and the rugged nature of, of people just taking care of themselves, it's, it's a reaction to really brutal socialist communist philosophy.

00:15:31.040 And, and I agree with you, a lot of, a lot of Ren fans stop there.

00:15:37.300 They focus on that and maybe they're not, and we had this conversation once, maybe they're not reading the books the way I did because I look at a lot of the heroes in both Fountainhead and Atlas Shrugged as people that care extraordinarily about society.

00:15:57.040 Like they're, they're bleeding a lot to try to save the thing that keeps the lights on, particularly in Atlas Shrugged.

00:16:04.140 Like they're all, they're all just getting beat up every day and demonized by everyone.

00:16:08.980 The threats, you know, the government comes in and confiscates their property and threatens them and yet they, they persevere.

00:16:15.200 That's not selfishness in any narrow sense that I would understand it.

00:16:19.140 That's, that's doing something bigger than yourself.

00:16:21.400 Well, I think it's, it's capitalism.

00:16:24.260 We haven't done, would you agree?

00:16:25.720 We haven't done capitalism for at least a hundred years.

00:16:28.160 Yeah.

00:16:28.560 Okay.

00:16:28.800 This is, this is a mess.

00:16:30.540 It's a lot of the things that people that, that think that they are progressives, um, they think they agree with.

00:16:38.460 It's actually, that's kind of the root of what we have right now.

00:16:42.460 Yeah.

00:16:43.000 Um, and it's, it's pulling away from the constitution and the rule of law and the independence and the gathering of power in Washington.

00:16:51.760 That's causing so much, so many problems.

00:16:53.800 Um, but as you really look at, um, some of these characters from Ayn Rand and, but, but also go back to Adam Smith and moral sentiments, capitalism is the most compassionate when it's at its best.

00:17:09.660 It is the most compassionate and it is the, it's the best way to do charity because it, it, it, a good capitalist knows I can be a millionaire if I, if I design something that everybody needs once, but I can be a billionaire if I design something that everybody needs every day.

00:17:30.700 How can I make people's lives better or easier if I can come up with that?

00:17:37.940 Well, I get the richest, but it's, it's like hunger.

00:17:41.960 We have done so much to pull people out of starvation, to pull people out of, um, uh, of, um, uh, poverty and, and you can't say that it, well, it was the big, um, you know, it was the big charities that did that.

00:17:59.660 And it wasn't, it was the idea that you're an individual and that you should be able to keep what you make.

00:18:06.000 And there's, there's a free market out there to exchange goods and services.

00:18:11.120 You put the iPhone and connect it to the internet in the middle of the jungle.

00:18:16.160 They're making money.

00:18:17.820 They're now making money and they have things that they've never had before, like clean water.

00:18:23.420 That's not charity.

00:18:25.820 That's capitalism.

00:18:26.880 Yeah, but it's the best form of capitalism.

00:18:29.600 Is it not?

00:18:30.480 Yeah.

00:18:30.800 And I, you know, I hesitate to use the C word and, and, you know, reportedly it was Karl Marx that sort of set up this false choice between socialism and who could be against being social versus capitalism, which, which emphasizes one small part of, of what a free market economic process is, the accumulation of capital.

00:18:51.840 But that's not what freedom is about.

00:18:53.460 That's, that is, that is a consequence and a useful tool by which people can create wealth and prosperity and, and, and lift people out of poverty.

00:19:03.360 So I worry about the, except it's sort of like, I don't like the left versus right thing.

00:19:09.700 Are we really choosing between Hitler and Pol Pot?

00:19:12.140 I don't think so.

00:19:12.880 I think, I think we have to rethink these things, but you know, I, I just, this week on my show,

00:19:18.560 seamless, shameless plug for, for Kibbe on liberty.

00:19:20.980 Uh, Maget Wade, who is a, a young entrepreneur from Senegal.

00:19:27.220 Um, she, if she was here, she would tell you that all of this charity that has tried to help, help Africa all these years has been a disaster.

00:19:36.200 Bono says the same thing.

00:19:37.620 Bono says the same thing.

00:19:38.800 Bono says that of all the isms, capitalism is the only thing that is lifting people out of poverty in Africa.

00:19:45.420 Um, and there is sort of this perverse incentive with the, the NGOs, the, the, the poverty industrial complex, call it whatever you like.

00:19:54.940 Um, last thing they want to do is fix poverty.

00:19:57.580 Cause then, then the business stops and it, and it's over.

00:20:01.320 And I spent some time in Haiti.

00:20:03.760 It, we're actually doing real harm to Haiti.

00:20:07.740 Yeah.

00:20:08.160 Um, where, you know, all the rice and all that, all of, all that stuff is coming in.

00:20:13.080 It's coming in from charities, but it, but farm farmers out, they're not growing anything.

00:20:18.440 How could you possibly compete?

00:20:20.300 I mean, it's, it hurts.

00:20:22.260 Yeah.

00:20:22.520 But you know, I, I had a, uh, another progressive friend on the show and we were talking about the fact that capitalism is lifting all these people out of poverty.

00:20:31.420 You know, the world bank says something like in the last 30 years, we've, we've halved the number of obscenely poor people in the world.

00:20:40.420 And, and by any measure that has to be a good thing, but what progressives are obsessed about, but is it equal?

00:20:49.840 Is it fair?

00:20:51.240 Is it just that in the process of doing all of this, someone like Jeff Bezos is, I don't know how many billion he's worth these days, but he's, he's worth a lot of money.

00:21:00.740 Um, they don't like that.

00:21:03.940 And, and I even look at the data, uh, to take it a bit further, that there isn't actually a trade-off between equality in terms of income equality and prosperity.

00:21:14.740 Those things actually work and rise together in practice.

00:21:18.860 But again, that's what we're making an economic argument.

00:21:21.860 How do we feed people?

00:21:23.180 We do it through, through free enterprise and, and taking that burden off of, of production of food and everything else.

00:21:31.100 And the other side is making an emotional argument that it just doesn't feel right.

00:21:36.020 I don't, how do you argue against that doesn't feel good?

00:21:39.020 I think one way that, that I want to do it is we're going to go to Senegal and we're going to talk to people and I want to, I want to, I want to sort of humanize the, the positive effects of what free market capitalism actually brings to that country, but also humanize the, the, the unintended consequences of, of charity and government regulation and all of these top down.

00:22:04.740 The theme is top down, right?

00:22:06.680 All of these top down, good intentions never, ever work out.

00:22:11.860 But if we're, if we're having an emotional conversation instead of an economic one, let's talk to people.

00:22:17.640 Let's talk to a person that, that used to sell shoes and was devastated by a well-meaning shoe company that started giving shoes away for free.

00:22:26.540 That person exists and he doesn't have a job anymore.

00:22:34.740 And the person who gave the shoes away probably has no idea how much damage he did.

00:22:54.420 Yeah, there's, there's no understanding of, of what Bastiat, you know, he talked about the seen and the unseen.

00:23:02.960 The seen is, is making sure that, that kids in Africa and in that village are receiving a pair of shoes.

00:23:12.740 The unseen is, the unseen is, the unseen is that you just disrupted the informal economy that, that creates all the jobs and, and all of the means by which the people themselves could lift themselves out of poverty without a handout.

00:23:27.700 The handout is, is, is corrupting and it, it, it destroys the, the sort of institutional evolution that would allow people to help themselves.

00:23:36.560 A lot of that has been lost.

00:23:39.500 I mean, you know, um, even FDR said you have to provide a man work.

00:23:45.040 If you just give him welfare without providing him work, eventually he'll, he'll just roll up in a ball.

00:23:51.720 He'll be useless.

00:23:53.020 Um, I mean, you know, the idea even of social security was that's for the people who didn't retire.

00:24:00.780 There was no retirement that, that, that was two or three years after 65 was two or three years after the average man died.

00:24:09.800 So it was to take care of the widows that might live to 66 or 67.

00:24:15.260 Now we're looking at it as a retirement plan.

00:24:18.140 That's not what it was intended for.

00:24:19.980 It was, it was social secure SSI, social security insurance.

00:24:24.560 Yeah.

00:24:24.720 So insurance insurance, it's not guaranteed to pay out, but now it is.

00:24:29.340 And we've lost sight of, this was the safety net that we were supposed to provide.

00:24:35.880 Yeah.

00:24:36.180 You know, that we, as a, as a capitalist Republic voted on and said, you know what?

00:24:42.680 We, we do have to take care of, of some people.

00:24:45.800 We have to do that as a people.

00:24:48.360 Well, that's not what it is.

00:24:49.660 It's not what it, that's not what it ever lasts as.

00:24:52.340 And this, this is sort of the Achilles heel, the fundamental, um, fatal flaw in, in the progressive dream, which I, I mean, just to, to be like sort of intellectually honest, I don't see a fundamental difference between progressivism as it was defined and, and socialism because the, the, it's all supposed to be top down.

00:25:14.860 It's supposed to be autocratic, replacing the chaos of the market with the best people from

00:25:20.800 the best universities and the best families, very elitist.

00:25:24.220 Um, you, you know, this better than I do.

00:25:26.880 Um, very racist that it's at its core.

00:25:29.880 Um, but the thing that they have never been willing to accept and, and all planners, all

00:25:37.340 good meaning do-gooder planners, they don't understand power and they don't understand how

00:25:44.920 power corrupts absolutely.

00:25:46.780 And they don't understand how a program that might be strictly limited, uh, when just a few

00:25:52.660 people were living over 65 years of age as a, as a small safety net, how that took on a life

00:25:57.860 of its own and how it became a political football and how it became a weapon for the bureaucratic

00:26:04.000 class to use, to build itself at the expense of people and all of those things.

00:26:08.840 And, and even how it is that big businesses will game the system to make it difficult for

00:26:14.640 mom and pop businesses to get a foothold in the market.

00:26:17.000 All that stuff happens with every single government program.

00:26:21.860 And, you know, when it gets really bad, you end up with Venezuela.

00:26:26.220 When it is sort of under control, you end up with $22 trillion in debt.

00:26:31.680 But, you know, at some point you run as market, Margaret Thatcher said, at some point

00:26:37.360 you run out of somebody else's money.

00:26:39.020 Yeah.

00:26:40.600 Um, let me take you to, um, let me take you out of these times because it's easier sometimes

00:26:48.080 to see things when you're going back and talk about the past.

00:26:52.180 We're living in a time much like the beginning of the industrial revolution, except it's going

00:26:56.940 to be much more transformative faster than that was.

00:27:00.140 But you're seeing the Vanderbilts, um, and the Carnegie's, um, they just happened to be the

00:27:07.160 Bezos and the, and the jobs of the world or whatever.

00:27:11.340 Um, and you're seeing this great wealth produced and, and you're seeing it even with, with Google

00:27:19.140 because they have such great wealth and such great leverage.

00:27:24.740 These companies are now the size of the, you know, governments, most governments around

00:27:31.720 the world are not the size of Google and Microsoft or Facebook combined.

00:27:36.140 Yeah.

00:27:36.640 Um, and so they have great power, you know, the Vanderbilts, they, they pretty much laid out

00:27:43.280 where the train tracks were going to go because they own the railroads and, you know, they wanted

00:27:48.240 a house over here.

00:27:49.320 That train was going that way.

00:27:50.720 Um, uh, and when I first moved to Texas, I went in the air, um, with Ross Perot, he's

00:27:57.640 a neighbor of mine and I went with his son and, uh, he took me over this ranch that he

00:28:03.700 had was tens of thousands of acres and he had slowly sold it off, but they had built an

00:28:10.160 airport, built a train switching station, which all the trains used to be switched in

00:28:15.200 Houston and now being switched here.

00:28:17.240 He built this beautiful airport right next to it.

00:28:20.300 So goods and services could be either offloaded on the train or unloaded, um, onto the plane.

00:28:26.640 Amazon just picked that as the head of Amazon flight operations.

00:28:32.080 And as I was with him in his helicopter, he was pointing out all the different things that

00:28:37.520 he did.

00:28:38.180 And, uh, you know, he was like, and years from now, this will be this and that will be

00:28:42.520 that.

00:28:42.940 And I thought, this is how the rich get richer.

00:28:45.180 Really?

00:28:45.580 They have enough money to be able to say, you know what?

00:28:51.660 Put the freeway here.

00:28:53.940 And that's where real wealth comes from.

00:28:57.360 How do you, I don't agree with the robber barons.

00:29:01.180 Some of them were bad.

00:29:02.280 Some of them were really good, but how do you, uh, stop people from gaining Rockefeller style

00:29:12.120 power and wealth or should you?

00:29:15.540 So I just had coffee with a, uh, public interest lawyer in DC and he's an old, uh, Ralph Nader

00:29:23.200 Raider guy.

00:29:24.220 And we were talking about this, this concentration of, I'm not sure it's concentration of wealth.

00:29:29.700 It's concentration of power and how there is, um, there's, there's, there is an elite, uh,

00:29:35.700 group of insiders that know how to play the game.

00:29:38.760 They know how to game the system.

00:29:40.120 And it, it may not simply be, um, you know, government insiders versus free market stuff.

00:29:49.360 But I, I do think when you, when you dig into that stuff and, and, you know, the stuff that

00:29:53.520 Amazon is doing, the stuff that Google's doing, they have a lot of government contracts and

00:29:58.600 they have a lot of power in Washington DC and they very much are in the business of gaming

00:30:05.260 the system so that, so that competitors can't do that.

00:30:09.080 I mean, that's what I ran wrote about.

00:30:11.740 Yeah.

00:30:11.940 Like her whole book is really about public choice theory.

00:30:14.160 It's really about, um, eventually you got to get a man in Washington and, and you see

00:30:19.740 that evolution.

00:30:20.360 You saw it in Microsoft.

00:30:21.700 Microsoft was, was a functionally sort of libertarian corporation that didn't even have

00:30:26.280 a DC office until they got taken to the woodshed with an antitrust suit and all their competitors

00:30:32.200 piled onto that.

00:30:33.880 Um, and they built up a, what is now a huge DC office and now they use their insider connections

00:30:40.500 to try to screw their competitors.

00:30:43.100 So that's the problem.

00:30:44.000 Yeah, that's the problem.

00:30:45.700 And you, you need to sort of sever the cord between the accumulation of wealth because I,

00:30:52.320 I don't, I don't think you want to stop that because that's killing the goose.

00:30:56.280 That laid the golden egg, but how do you make it so that these very politicians that are,

00:31:03.340 that are preaching to us about fairness and justice and, you know, Elizabeth Warren wants

00:31:08.080 to break up, uh, um, is it Amazon?

00:31:11.500 I forget.

00:31:11.900 Like she wants to break them all up.

00:31:13.940 Um, what she's really doing is sending a signal.

00:31:16.320 Like you got to play ball.

00:31:18.000 I want a piece.

00:31:19.820 So if, if you come to the table and work with me, help me get elected, uh, donate to

00:31:25.500 my campaign.

00:31:26.740 Um, I'll make sure that you have a seat at the table when we, um, craft the plan to break

00:31:34.080 you up.

00:31:34.500 And, and over history, what happens is every time that process plays itself out, the, the

00:31:40.980 so-called, uh, you know, the big business that we're setting out to reign in, they write the

00:31:45.980 rules and they rewrite the rules.

00:31:47.880 Google wrote the, um, uh, internet, uh, bill, you know, for, for what, what is it called?

00:31:55.060 Uh, uh, uh, uh, shoot, it's not free internet, but, uh, uh, you know what I'm talking about?

00:32:02.200 Um, they're the ones who, who wrote that bill, internet neutrality.

00:32:06.220 Yeah.

00:32:06.520 Yeah.

00:32:06.720 Net neutrality.

00:32:07.440 Net neutrality.

00:32:08.240 I mean, that is that, that, that should make you stop in question.

00:32:12.520 Wait a minute.

00:32:13.040 Google wrote that.

00:32:14.300 Yeah.

00:32:14.740 You know, you saw this in the, uh, in world war two and the great depression.

00:32:19.140 I mean, if anybody looks up a visual of a cord, uh, C-O-R-D or, um, or anything really that

00:32:29.720 was built, um, in, uh, in, I think Indiana back in the thirties, as far as cars, you had

00:32:36.640 the Duesenberg.

00:32:37.720 Yeah.

00:32:38.040 Those things were, those were outrageous, great cars.

00:32:42.320 The big three were called into the office cause they had the clout.

00:32:45.880 You guys make the rules.

00:32:47.660 Uh, so we have a fair playing ground and they did, and it put all of those great car manufacturers

00:32:55.020 out of business because they write them for themselves.

00:32:57.880 And that's, that's the, the cognitive dissidence with, with someone like Bernie Sanders because

00:33:02.340 and, or AOC or any of these sort of populist, uh, social, uh, justice warrior types.

00:33:10.480 They I'm with them when they're raging against the machine.

00:33:14.820 I'm with them when they talk about the collusion of big government and big business.

00:33:17.800 I'm with them when they complain about permanent war and mass incarceration and, and chronic

00:33:23.080 capitalism, all that stuff.

00:33:24.380 But they don't seem to understand how power accumulates because of the very policies that

00:33:32.120 they advocate and how they, no matter what the program is, it could be social security,

00:33:35.940 it could be Medicare for all, it could be net neutrality.

00:33:39.020 There's always a middleman.

00:33:40.380 There's always a guy at the table before you and, and the voter, the citizen, the consumer,

00:33:47.660 you never have a seat at the table when the, when the, when the pie is being divided up.

00:33:52.880 Um, so I do think there's like part of the answer to the rise of socialism has to be what

00:33:58.820 I would probably call, um, libertarian populism.

00:34:02.880 Like we need to acknowledge that there is a class of insiders and, and that class of insiders

00:34:09.240 isn't just in Washington DC, but it's a, it's a mutual beneficial insider club.

00:34:14.820 Um, let, let's embrace that.

00:34:17.400 I mean, that's what Hugo Chavez was railing against.

00:34:20.260 That's what Bernie Sanders was railing against.

00:34:22.260 But, but the, the irony with Bernie is, is like, that's why we need to give him more power

00:34:27.960 because if we do that, then they'll stop.

00:34:31.060 I don't know.

00:34:31.880 It doesn't make any sense, but we could appeal to, um, sort of the emotions of people that

00:34:38.060 know the game is rigged.

00:34:39.360 They know the system is corrupt.

00:34:41.360 They don't trust politicians.

00:34:42.900 That's a very healthy thing.

00:34:44.820 Um, let's, let's focus on that and, but also get to that other thing we were talking about.

00:34:51.540 What's the, what's the beautiful thing that's the alternative to this top down, uh, insiders

00:35:00.080 collusion.

00:35:00.880 What's, what's the beauty of the market?

00:35:02.600 And we, we really suck explaining horrible at it.

00:35:06.620 The beauty that comes out of free people.

00:35:08.560 So, so let's go there after one more question.

00:35:11.860 Please tell me the difference between socialism, communism, and national socialism.

00:35:16.620 So communist Nazis and just straight up, you know, Swedish socialists.

00:35:22.480 Well, I'll use, um, I mean, communism is sort of this, this fairy tale world where there's,

00:35:29.600 there's unicorns and there's, there's no more scarcity.

00:35:32.180 So food's not an issue.

00:35:34.940 Housing's not an issue.

00:35:36.040 Healthcare is not an issue.

00:35:37.880 Um, so it's very much a fantasy world.

00:35:39.440 There's no government in real communism.

00:35:42.080 According to Marx, there is absolutely no government.

00:35:45.520 Uh, there's no need to work.

00:35:47.260 There's no need to, uh, grow stuff.

00:35:49.740 I don't it.

00:35:50.440 So it's like this, this fantasy world that we're never going to get to because the, the,

00:35:54.840 the gateway between capitalism and communism, communism is socialism.

00:35:59.920 And that is in, you know, in practice, it's some sort of, it's not all government control

00:36:06.140 of the means of production on occasion.

00:36:08.200 They try it.

00:36:09.760 Mao tried it with a great leap forward and 65 million people starved.

00:36:14.960 Brutal, brutal.

00:36:15.960 Like, uh, uh, Pol Pot in Cambodia, he, he studied Marxism at the best university in Paris.

00:36:26.020 And he and his friends came up with this idea, this, this idea that we could move, move society

00:36:31.120 back to this agrarian state.

00:36:33.480 And he implemented it with great seriousness.

00:36:36.660 But the first thing he did was kill all the foreigners.

00:36:41.680 Jeez.

00:36:42.340 So what, what is that?

00:36:44.020 Is that socialism or is that national socialism?

00:36:46.860 Is that, that sort of that, that cultural identity that, that we often associate with,

00:36:52.500 with Mussolini and Hitler, um, in practice, they've, they merged together, but you know,

00:36:57.140 technically socialism is, is government ownership of the means of production.

00:37:01.400 Fascism is just government control of the means of production.

00:37:05.380 In practice, a lot of the socialist experiments have had clear aspects of fascism and a lot of

00:37:11.440 fascist experiments.

00:37:12.340 I mean, both Mussolini and Hitler, you know, they were socialists before they were, they

00:37:17.080 were fascists, but you know, it, it, it, and Mussolini in particular was, um, he, he, his

00:37:24.180 problem with communism was he said, I, I, I fought in world war one and nobody was fighting

00:37:29.900 for the workers of the world.

00:37:32.120 They were fighting for France or they were fighting for Italy.

00:37:35.760 They were fighting for their homeland and that's what brought him into national socialism instead

00:37:41.940 of communism.

00:37:44.180 Uh, and the same thing with, with Hitler, with the, with the red on the flag, Hitler said the

00:37:48.920 reason why the flag, the Nazi flag is red is to show that we are the same as the reds.

00:37:55.100 The, any communist, they need to know that's, that's our base is, is that same basic philosophy.

00:38:02.080 Yeah.

00:38:02.940 And you know, we're still watching that play out today.

00:38:06.580 It's, it's a sort of a cynical strategy of, of appealing to national identity instead of

00:38:12.360 class struggle, but you know, they'll throw it out there.

00:38:15.420 Let's, let's see what sticks.

00:38:16.740 Are we, are we mad at rich people today?

00:38:18.520 Or are we just mad at, at, at people from, from another religion or another ethnicity?

00:38:26.600 And with Pol Pot, it was all of the above.

00:38:28.980 I'm going to use all of those demagogic tools to manipulate people and to scare people and

00:38:34.500 ultimately to kill people.

00:38:36.860 Um, it's, it, it, it sort of plays itself out today with Antifa and, and you know, the

00:38:44.220 history of Antifa, um, it was this, this pissing match for power back going all the way back

00:38:52.460 to world war two between the communists Antifa, same thing.

00:38:57.400 And the fascists who were the other side.

00:39:00.860 And by the way, the leaders of those two teams would switch teams on a strategic basis, depending

00:39:06.360 on, on who was winning and, and what was playing with the public, all of that stuff.

00:39:11.140 Um, but it was never a fight about ideology.

00:39:14.300 No, I think, I think it's a fight about power.

00:39:16.480 Yeah.

00:39:16.640 Who's in control of it.

00:39:17.440 Yeah.

00:39:17.660 Who's, who's, who's in charge.

00:39:19.660 Um, and I, I see that today with, with the violent tactics.

00:39:23.060 It's, it's an experiment to see if the American people will tolerate violence as a tool for

00:39:30.080 political change.

00:39:31.720 And certainly the, the media seems to be giving them a pass on that.

00:39:41.140 So tell me about the beautiful alternative, because no one is communicating this.

00:39:59.620 They're, everybody's talking about, well, we just, we just need to fix healthcare.

00:40:04.020 We just need to do that.

00:40:04.820 No, we, it's a big job ahead of us and it's a bold vision, but I don't hear anybody articulating

00:40:10.920 it.

00:40:11.140 Yeah.

00:40:11.960 And it's, it's hard to articulate a vision that essentially imagines beautiful things

00:40:20.540 that, that people could do if they were left free.

00:40:23.120 So I always start the conversation by pulling out this guy and we all know who came up with

00:40:29.160 this idea, um, and I phone, and you know, by all accounts, Steve jobs was a total jerk.

00:40:35.620 He's, he's a rude and obsessed and just in his book, you know, are you?

00:40:41.060 Yeah.

00:40:41.240 He tried to get me fired at Fox.

00:40:42.720 He met with a Rupert flew into town, met with Rupert, tried to get me fired.

00:40:46.760 So you're not going to argue when I say that Steve was kind of a jerk.

00:40:49.620 Steve is a genius.

00:40:50.820 I actually liked the stuff that he made.

00:40:52.260 I don't know how he become the, he became this beloved figure.

00:40:55.340 Cause he was one of the worst human beings that anybody knew.

00:40:59.420 It's because people, uh, left, right, center love the notion of entrepreneurship.

00:41:05.560 What about Elon Musk?

00:41:07.160 He's done.

00:41:07.760 He's not getting love.

00:41:09.120 Well, he should stay off Joe Rogan, maybe.

00:41:14.080 Or at least have the pot stay off.

00:41:15.960 Yeah.

00:41:16.360 Yeah.

00:41:16.840 Smoke after the show.

00:41:18.000 Yeah.

00:41:18.200 Yeah.

00:41:18.400 Yeah.

00:41:18.640 We'll work it out.

00:41:19.420 But, but I think, you know, this, this device and I, and I go like, cause I'm a

00:41:25.220 dork.

00:41:25.500 I always go back to Ludwig von Mises.

00:41:27.300 My wife hates me for this.

00:41:28.560 She's like, nobody, nobody cares.

00:41:30.480 But Mises talks about entrepreneurship.

00:41:32.400 It's not just satisfying consumer demand.

00:41:35.360 It's imagining an alternative future.

00:41:37.820 That's better, more awesome.

00:41:40.280 And, and part of his stubbornness jerkiness was forcing his colleagues to say, this is what

00:41:48.580 they want.

00:41:49.300 They don't know it.

00:41:50.280 Don't go market test it.

00:41:51.980 Don't tell me that it has to be this way.

00:41:54.100 I have this vision of a future.

00:41:57.040 And if, and if you imagine like confiscating all the iPhones today, the, the millennial

00:42:01.240 generation would, would shut down.

00:42:03.400 They couldn't function.

00:42:04.360 You could, you could seize all the guns.

00:42:06.580 You get rid of the first amendment, second amendment.

00:42:08.700 They're not saying anything.

00:42:09.740 So they would like, and entrepreneurship is not a dirty word.

00:42:13.180 Capitalism is a dirty word with young people, but entrepreneurship isn't.

00:42:16.100 And so what I've tried to do, and it's difficult with things like healthcare, but I've tried

00:42:22.020 to use things like craft beer as a metaphor for the awesomeness that happens when people

00:42:27.940 are free.

00:42:28.480 Because there's in the craft beer world, there's, there's a sense of radical innovation.

00:42:33.780 You know, you can make a triple IPA quadruply hopped with, with hops from all over the world and

00:42:41.040 it's 12% alcohol and it'll, it'll make you completely incoherent if you have two of them, but it's sort of a

00:42:49.460 quest for people to, to, to create that and see if there's a marketplace for it.

00:42:53.860 There's, there's all of these sub sub communities who get together and, and try to find the, the

00:43:00.360 hoppiest beer out there.

00:43:01.940 There's a sense of, of community at these craft beer places.

00:43:06.100 And it's, it's really a metaphor for everything we love about markets.

00:43:10.200 You have an entrepreneur and he's not just trying to make a buck.

00:43:13.140 He's trying to create something that he loves.

00:43:14.920 He's trying to create something that he wants his community to love.

00:43:18.420 He's trying to serve an audience by doing something that he's not even sure they're going to

00:43:22.560 want. And so finding stories like that, uh, we could find them in, in charity.

00:43:29.600 We could find them in markets.

00:43:31.560 We could find them in products and services.

00:43:33.520 I think one way to explain the awesomeness of markets and how it produces community in

00:43:38.140 a sense of, dare I say, social responsibility.

00:43:43.020 Um, I hate it how the left steals all these words.

00:43:45.760 So if I say social responsibility now, it's got all this baggage.

00:43:49.720 Like, I think there's such a thing as social responsibility, but it's not, no one's going

00:43:55.680 to force me to do it.

00:43:57.700 So I think, I think we struggle with that because it's sort of an imaginary future.

00:44:02.700 You're looking around the corner of history and imagining a world where you could get

00:44:06.400 healthcare, like you get your Airbnb, like you get your Uber.

00:44:11.240 You could actually choose from a whole menu of doctors.

00:44:14.860 So you could look at their ratings.

00:44:16.780 Um, you would know what your pricing is before you go in.

00:44:19.720 This, this is not, there are MRIs and CAT scans that are sitting empty.

00:44:24.260 I want to book a CAT scan.

00:44:26.640 Well, you can drive here and you can take that and they can compete against each other.

00:44:30.500 And the free market works, the free market works to get rid of all the, the third parties

00:44:37.080 and administrative hangers ons and the money we would save by getting rid of all that.

00:44:42.400 Yeah.

00:44:43.280 And, and I think we need some, some actual experiments.

00:44:48.620 I know they're out there.

00:44:49.260 I want to go find them and actually make some, some documentaries about, about how free market

00:44:55.680 medicine actually works today.

00:44:57.420 And, and tragically today it works in, in what's called boutique medicine.

00:45:03.020 So you have, you have centralized government controlled, heavily rationed.

00:45:08.100 I can't get surgery in time for me not to die type systems.

00:45:12.900 And the market has responded by creating boutique medicine and who can afford boutique medicine

00:45:18.980 only the rich, but you can at least see how it is that a market price would work for an MRI.

00:45:24.100 You can't see it when you try to decipher your hospital bill or, or your insurance payment.

00:45:29.380 It's just not there.

00:45:30.180 There's no pricing.

00:45:31.880 So when you, when you look at, um, when you look at, let's say the market healthcare, um,

00:45:41.060 people only see the suffering of others and they, and they see only the option of, well,

00:45:49.840 we got to repeal and do what and do what, what is it we're going to do?

00:45:55.300 And I haven't heard anybody talk about the grand design and the beauty of a radically

00:46:03.280 different healthcare system on the right.

00:46:05.700 Yeah.

00:46:06.460 It's good.

00:46:07.060 And I think for better or worse, all of the things that we've tried to fix, um, you and

00:46:14.020 I've been at this for a long time and we, you know, we, we tried to fix the federal government

00:46:17.500 and not going to happen and feel sort of silly and naive now that I thought we could, could

00:46:22.960 elect a bunch of people that would want to balance the budget and all that.

00:46:25.840 But it was a noble fight.

00:46:27.260 Glad we did it.

00:46:28.020 Um, I think it's a different world.

00:46:30.340 We, we, we, we didn't understand what we were fighting and, um, and we really thought

00:46:39.120 that there were decent people and there are a few, um, but there's a, there's a ton of

00:46:44.940 cowards, ton of cowards in Washington, ton of cowards and, and all of the incentives are

00:46:50.600 designed to grow the government Washington class.

00:46:54.620 I should call it the Washington class.

00:46:55.940 Cause it's not just people that work for the government, but I think, you know, and

00:47:00.380 this is where, this is where my libertarianism comes out.

00:47:02.940 I think that technology and entrepreneurship is going to hack the system outside of politics

00:47:09.200 the same way that boutique medicine is a market response to the fact that people that desperately

00:47:15.840 need healthcare can't get it waiting in line in, in the UK or in Canada, they, they get

00:47:22.940 on their G fives and they go get it somewhere else.

00:47:25.880 Um, there's actually great healthcare in Mexico, believe it or not, but, but you have to pay

00:47:29.520 for it.

00:47:30.160 It's a market.

00:47:31.540 Um, the, the, it, and most people don't have access to that stuff.

00:47:35.380 We're going to need to hack the system the same way that Uber and Lyft hacked the taxi

00:47:42.420 monopoly.

00:47:43.100 I have industrial organization books on my shelf that I, that I studied that use the taxi

00:47:49.160 monopoly as a classic example of a government entrenched cartel that you will never, ever,

00:47:54.380 ever break.

00:47:55.420 And technology did.

00:47:56.680 And, and of course now they're coming back and they're trying to destroy Uber and Lyft.

00:48:00.660 But I, I think the innovators and the hackers and, and people that are desperate for an

00:48:08.340 alternative, they're, they're there and, and we gotta, we gotta empower them.

00:48:12.900 And we also gotta go to let all of these young people that are sort of entranced by democratic

00:48:17.920 socialism see that, that beautiful, positive, oh, well there's, there's markets helping people.

00:48:23.840 And isn't that the problem with, I mean, Uber and Lyft were able in the rest of the country

00:48:30.060 to run tests, you know, to run experiments, to see if this would work before it was released

00:48:36.060 nationally.

00:48:36.860 And, and you didn't need the government to change anything.

00:48:40.140 You needed the government to say, Hey, this is a new thing and they have a right to exist.

00:48:44.420 Um, or enforce that right.

00:48:47.020 Yeah.

00:48:47.360 Um, but you don't really need the government on, on things.

00:48:50.620 Um, we've lost the ability, for instance, on healthcare, you can't do things.

00:48:56.960 You can't, you can't just say, you know what, we're going to do, we're going to do something

00:49:00.740 ourself.

00:49:01.380 We're going to do something as a state of Texas.

00:49:03.240 We're going to do, you can't do that.

00:49:06.180 Um, and so the government just shackles you.

00:49:09.160 And so they're the only ideas you have are theories that no one was allowed to, to try

00:49:16.280 yet.

00:49:17.040 You have some small things and then you have a committee that's looking at them and saying,

00:49:21.660 well, is it worth getting rid of this?

00:49:23.740 Cause will this work?

00:49:24.720 Will this be better?

00:49:25.640 And if they have an agenda of one kind of healthcare or another, you have no chance for 50 separate

00:49:33.680 laboratories.

00:49:34.220 Yeah, we, we just went through this absurd debate, which, which I think turned out right

00:49:39.720 on the question of right to try.

00:49:41.400 Are you as a terminal patient allowed to try an experimental drug that's gone through the

00:49:47.860 basic safety tests and, and the face of it, it's an absurd question.

00:49:52.580 Like who would dare tell me that I couldn't.

00:49:55.940 Um, and yet we went through that process where, where there's, and by the way, it's, it's a,

00:50:01.260 it's a, it's a ugly collusion between the FDA pharmaceutical companies.

00:50:08.120 They don't necessarily want people to have choices.

00:50:10.460 They got, they got a system that works for them.

00:50:13.020 And one, one of the unintended consequences or intended is that, that a lot of drugs are

00:50:17.600 quite expensive.

00:50:18.660 A lot of drugs that you might want to try.

00:50:21.060 A lot of drugs are used in Europe aren't available here.

00:50:23.660 And as a patient, I'm thinking to myself, my doctor just told me that I'm going to die

00:50:29.560 and I'm, I'm a cancer survivor.

00:50:31.400 So this is personal to me.

00:50:33.620 And my doctor just told me that, but he says that the federal government won't let me try

00:50:39.360 this, this treatment that seems to be working.

00:50:42.180 I can get you into that trial, but you can't do it.

00:50:44.500 And so that to me, like, that's a, that's a cool story to explain why patients and doctors

00:50:52.480 making choices is a good thing.

00:50:55.760 And that of course is the, the, the free market vision is that patients and doctors need to

00:51:00.220 work this stuff out and you don't want a politician or a bureaucrat between you and your doctor.

00:51:05.760 We produce a lot of stuff on, on medical cannabis for that reason, because it's, it's a medical

00:51:11.780 cannabis is something that, that, that very much supported, uh, left of center, more and

00:51:17.560 more supported right of center, like in Utah, that it just passed and, and 60, 70% of Republicans

00:51:23.660 supported it as well.

00:51:25.180 But it's not about cannabis at all.

00:51:26.980 It's about whether or not a patient and a doctor can make a choice and, and can we see,

00:51:34.420 can we see what happens there?

00:51:35.860 Uh, we did a documentary with about one of my buddies, uh, Joel Davis, former tea party

00:51:41.480 activist, uh, born with horrible scoliosis.

00:51:45.720 And he's, he's had just, just an incredibly, uh, sort of painful experience getting through

00:51:51.920 life.

00:51:52.660 His doctor's response over the years was to give him more and more opioids.

00:51:57.780 And I forget the number, but it was an insane amount.

00:52:00.000 It was, it was, he was taking, uh, the amount of opioids every day that would kill anybody else

00:52:04.700 because he had developed a complete tolerance for it.

00:52:08.520 And it was ruining his body.

00:52:10.220 It was ruining his, his, his mind.

00:52:12.760 It was ruining his life.

00:52:15.160 And he decided with, he lives in West Virginia.

00:52:20.320 So he had to do it illegally.

00:52:21.860 He couldn't really talk to his doctor about it, but he decided I'm going to wean myself

00:52:25.160 off by using medical cannabis.

00:52:26.920 And he did it.

00:52:28.340 And to me, like, I don't know why anyone would tell him he couldn't.

00:52:32.540 And that's, that's the story of freedom.

00:52:37.640 And it's very uplifting and aspirational because he's had, he has his life back now.

00:52:41.800 Yeah.

00:52:42.040 I don't, I don't know why anybody has a right to tell me what I can and cannot put in my

00:52:46.100 body.

00:52:46.740 Um, especially if I'm sick.

00:52:48.400 Um, and that includes, I want to die.

00:52:51.040 Yeah.

00:52:51.620 Um, the, the, the sticky part on that comes with the devaluation of life and getting doctors

00:52:58.620 involved.

00:52:59.260 You know, I don't know if you've seen the numbers, I think it's in Sweden, um, that,

00:53:03.600 uh, 30%, 30 or 37% of all of the deaths last year in Sweden were doctor assisted.

00:53:11.140 That is a little frightening.

00:53:12.900 Yeah.

00:53:13.160 That's a little frightening because you have incentive as we're seeing in with Charlie

00:53:17.780 guard.

00:53:18.220 And we've seen it a couple of times here in America, you know, if the, if, if the doctor

00:53:22.300 deems, eh, there's not really anything there, they just shut you off.

00:53:25.940 Um, and you know, they're starting to see that now in Sweden that, oh, this guy is really

00:53:33.380 depressed.

00:53:34.520 Uh, and, uh, you know, he wants to, he wants to, uh, you know, end his life.

00:53:40.680 Let's help him.

00:53:41.280 Cause he's a drain anyway.

00:53:43.000 Yeah.

00:53:43.920 It's, I mean, it's a form of, uh, fascism authoritarianism where you, you have this global budget.

00:53:51.060 We're going to spend this much on healthcare and somebody has decided from the top down

00:53:54.760 how much it is.

00:53:56.880 And as you're trying to rearrange the chess pieces who are humans, our lives, and you're

00:54:02.740 saying, oh, that guy's too old off that guy's mentally unstable, gone.

00:54:07.460 Um, that child's not worth saving.

00:54:10.220 We can't, the cost benefits, it's not there.

00:54:12.180 Um, that the, the brutal calculus of that is, is quite typical in authoritarian countries,

00:54:19.280 but it's also quite typical in, in top down, one size fits all global budget, government

00:54:25.100 run healthcare.

00:54:26.520 Um, so again, like I think we're the bad guys that we can't sell that to the young people

00:54:33.920 because nobody wants, nobody, nobody believes in that.

00:54:36.780 No decent person believes that, um, people should die.

00:54:40.080 And I go all the way back to the Obamacare fight.

00:54:42.460 I remember Robert Reich infamously saying, we're going to let old people die.

00:54:48.060 And he was, he was speaking, I think he was speaking at Berkeley and they, and they applauded

00:54:51.880 like, how sick is that?

00:54:54.400 Really sick.

00:54:54.960 Yeah.

00:54:55.080 I think we have, I think we are experiencing now a cult, um, you know, as I define a cult,

00:55:02.280 a cult is, uh, someone with a group with extreme ideas out of, out of step with the main

00:55:08.280 stream, uh, that they will, they will take you, take your children, whoever, and indoctrinate

00:55:15.200 you, then turn you against anyone who has a differing opinion.

00:55:19.000 Anyone who says this church isn't true.

00:55:21.640 Well, you got to stop them because they are liars and they're dangerous and you just start

00:55:26.540 building enemies.

00:55:28.380 Well, that's really what's happened to the democratic party.

00:55:31.180 They're afraid you can't step out of the democratic party.

00:55:34.960 Um, and they, you know, they, they hold these cult like meetings.

00:55:41.880 The scary thing is, is there also a death cult?

00:55:45.060 They, they are, Hey, let's, let's light up the, you know, empire state building and shout

00:55:50.340 our abortion.

00:55:51.460 Wait a minute.

00:55:52.180 It used to be safe, rare, legal.

00:55:57.560 It's not rare now.

00:55:59.560 It's not rare.

00:56:00.180 Uh, and they, they are, when you light up the statue of Liberty to celebrate infanticide,

00:56:07.540 that's a little death cultish, isn't it?

00:56:12.800 I wonder how their coalition holds because I studied with, with great interest, the, uh,

00:56:21.400 women's March and indivisible and, and, and how it compared and didn't compare to the

00:56:30.160 tea party movement.

00:56:32.160 And you have all of these seemingly disparate values and agendas in, in the democratic coalition

00:56:40.180 that that's showing up at the March.

00:56:42.520 And of course it fell apart quite quickly because it turned out that, that some of those values

00:56:47.780 were at fundamental odds with others of those values.

00:56:50.040 And, and, and whatever, whatever else you want to say about the tea party, there was a time

00:56:53.920 between 2009 and 2013 where the, the values were almost a hundred percent consistent.

00:57:06.220 You could randomly walk into a crowd and I did this all those years.

00:57:11.020 Like, why are you here?

00:57:12.720 What do you, what are you thinking about?

00:57:14.180 And they would all give you some iteration of, uh, I'm here because, uh, my government

00:57:21.100 has gone bonkers.

00:57:22.360 We need some fiscal responsibility, constitutional limited government and individual liberty.

00:57:27.040 And, and by the way, they would have all sorts of opinions about all sorts of other things.

00:57:32.460 Um, but that was the glue that held them together and that the modern democratic party doesn't

00:57:39.780 have that glue.

00:57:40.760 And, and they have to sort of, I think they have to hide the authoritarian nature of what

00:57:47.100 they're getting at, because I don't think that sells.

00:57:49.560 So you, you could, you, you're going to go with populism.

00:57:51.880 You're going to, you're going to put democratic in front of socialism.

00:57:56.280 Um, maybe, maybe you're looking at me saying you're way too optimistic that this doesn't

00:58:00.820 hold together, but, but in order for it to fall apart, like what's the alternative?

00:58:06.140 Where do you go?

00:58:07.140 If you believe in liberty and freedom, where, where does a tea partier that still doesn't

00:58:12.880 like a wall street bailouts and, and doesn't like the national debt and doesn't like, uh,

00:58:19.260 budgets that never balance and doesn't like, uh, limits on free speech, all of that stuff.

00:58:25.800 And I just described myself, like I'm, I'm drifting out of here.

00:58:28.840 I'm trying to find a home.

00:58:30.520 Um, I think you got to go upstream of politics.

00:58:33.080 I think, I think politics corrupted the tea party.

00:58:36.660 I think politics corrupts everything.

00:58:39.000 I think eventually, you know, a guy shows up at your doorstep with a deal that you can't

00:58:43.900 refuse in politics.

00:58:45.900 So we got to go upstream into culture and tell stories and, and, and, and, and connect

00:58:54.680 with that, that sort of emotional side of people that are, you know, they're, they're worried

00:58:58.980 about a lot of the same things we are, but they just process things like humans and, and

00:59:04.180 I process things like a dork.

00:59:17.960 I said something yesterday on the air and doesn't matter what it was, but, um, I had a friend,

00:59:23.900 uh, write to me and, um, and I wasn't in lockstep with him and he was very upset and like, dude,

00:59:34.720 we're, we're, we're never going to be in lockstep.

00:59:36.620 I, that shouldn't be a goal.

00:59:37.980 I know why, why all of a sudden they're, well, because it was about Donald Trump.

00:59:42.220 Well, because blah, blah, blah.

00:59:44.020 And, uh, um, it, you, you don't want to live in that world, but it seems like that is the

00:59:54.140 world, um, that it's getting smaller and smaller and smaller that we have to be in, in lockstep.

01:00:00.900 We, we, we're much better off if we can look at each other as individuals and say, I don't

01:00:07.520 agree with you on that at all, but, oh, well, you want to go get, you want to go get a shake

01:00:11.200 or you want to go have a drink or whatever.

01:00:13.360 Um, let's go work on this project together.

01:00:16.800 And I wonder, like, so you look at the women's March or the, the modern democratic coalition

01:00:22.060 and they're big into silos, right?

01:00:23.780 They, they want to identify people based on the color of their skin or their religion or

01:00:28.860 their, their sexual identity and there's, there's now dozens of silos.

01:00:32.740 It's getting complicated, but maybe the alternative is like, if you really believe in diversity,

01:00:39.800 you should acknowledge that, you know what?

01:00:42.080 There's not dozens of silos.

01:00:43.340 There's millions, there's billions of silos in this world, uh, because we're all a little

01:00:49.120 bit different.

01:00:49.740 We all have different hopes and dreams and our parents are different and, and our, the faith

01:00:54.180 that we choose is different.

01:00:55.640 Um, but wouldn't life suck if we weren't different?

01:01:00.300 Yes.

01:01:01.080 Like imagine a world that was just me, but that, that would be the deepest level of hell

01:01:06.080 ever.

01:01:06.320 Horrible.

01:01:06.820 Yeah.

01:01:07.840 Especially you.

01:01:08.720 I would hate it.

01:01:09.700 I would hate it.

01:01:10.620 I would not want to be around like lots of people.

01:01:12.680 No, neither would I.

01:01:13.420 Yeah.

01:01:13.760 I mean, it, it, it is, um, we, we've, we've accentuated our differences, uh, at the expense

01:01:21.300 of what, that we need each other, you know, uh, and, and this is an old idea.

01:01:26.480 I mean, the pilgrims tried it, um, and, and, and Plymouth rock, they tried it.

01:01:32.700 They, they, they tried it in Virginia and, uh, what is it?

01:01:37.100 I want to say Jonestown, but isn't that the Jamestown Jamestown Jamestown, but also socialist,

01:01:42.920 but also socialist, but they, they, they all ended the same way.

01:01:47.560 And the pilgrims had, you know, a very religious reason for doing it.

01:01:51.280 Uh, Jamestown had just a kind of, uh, uh, uh, big government kind of reasons for doing

01:01:58.460 it, but it, but they ended the same way and it does, it just doesn't work.

01:02:01.840 Yeah.

01:02:02.160 It just doesn't work no matter what your, your motive is.

01:02:06.580 It doesn't work.

01:02:07.620 Um, you know, we talk about, uh, uh, who has a big vision, the group of people that should

01:02:16.880 have the big vision are the libertarians, but I find they are exactly like the GOP or

01:02:24.420 the, uh, the DNC or the socialists to where, excuse me, if you don't quote the right French,

01:02:33.240 uh, philosopher, you're no libertarian where libertarians, the, I mean, the reason what,

01:02:41.160 why it appeals to me is because it was kind of the original idea of the country.

01:02:48.200 Just don't, as your book was, you know, don't, uh, what, don't, don't hurt people and don't

01:02:54.020 take their stuff.

01:02:54.840 Don't take their stuff.

01:02:56.180 Uh, that's really what it's supposed to be.

01:02:59.140 Yeah.

01:02:59.660 It's not really, is it?

01:03:01.840 Well, it's, um, no, it's not.

01:03:03.900 And there's, there's an interesting civil war going on within the libertarian party and

01:03:10.140 we, and we'd love to chase each other out of the tent.

01:03:13.160 Yeah.

01:03:13.640 But right now there's a, there's a proxy war for this whole cultural identity thing going

01:03:17.660 on between socially conservative libertarians and there's a ton of them and socially liberal

01:03:23.400 libertarians.

01:03:24.960 And, and I, I think they're, how can you be a libertarian on either side?

01:03:31.000 If you want to tell the other side how to live, that's what I'm trying to tell them.

01:03:36.180 Right.

01:03:36.700 I mean, that doesn't make sense.

01:03:37.940 They're missing like the, the point that the sales pitch for being a libertarian is I'm

01:03:43.260 going to let you live your life and you're socially conservative.

01:03:46.700 You think that marriage is between a man and a woman and you want to raise your kids going

01:03:51.540 to this church.

01:03:53.160 And, and by the way, you probably don't want to bake a cake for that couple.

01:03:57.700 And I'm like, that's okay.

01:03:59.740 You should do that.

01:04:01.000 And here I am.

01:04:02.120 I want to go to grateful dead concerts and I want to dye my hair blue and, and, and do

01:04:08.340 all sorts of things that, that probably sort of rub you the wrong way.

01:04:13.020 But in America, in a small L libertarian world, we're both free to do that.

01:04:18.920 And in the process, we're going to probably figure out how to cooperate, how to collaborate,

01:04:23.860 how to tolerate each other.

01:04:25.040 We might even get to the point where we could respect each other's point of view, but we're

01:04:29.000 never going to be the same.

01:04:30.560 You're never going to convince me to live just like you.

01:04:33.960 So we're in this, in this argument.

01:04:36.360 I, I spent the last couple of years attending a big L libertarian events for the first time

01:04:42.960 in my life.

01:04:43.660 And, and they're, they're working through some of these things.

01:04:46.640 A lot of good people, a lot of great people, a lot of great candidates.

01:04:49.880 Um, but you know, it's a little bit like a, an article in New York times I read a couple

01:04:56.740 of years ago where Bernie's old socialist buddies from Burlington, they think he's a total sellout

01:05:01.760 because he no longer talks about seizing the means of production.

01:05:05.480 And, and, and, and they're, they're deeply disappointed that Bernie Sanders is successful.

01:05:10.160 That's what small ideological based movements do.

01:05:12.940 They're pushing people out.

01:05:14.480 Um, the growing pains for the libertarian party or any other third party, maybe it's just the

01:05:19.380 independent party is it's gotta be, it's gotta be like what I was describing with the tea

01:05:24.740 party.

01:05:25.040 There's a couple of values that are non-negotiable fiscal responsibility and constitutionally limited

01:05:31.620 government beyond that.

01:05:34.140 Um, we got all sorts of people with all sorts of views and, and all sorts of religions and

01:05:40.200 everything else.

01:05:40.820 And, and we cooperate.

01:05:42.620 We're this beautiful, crazy quilt of all sorts of different types of people.

01:05:46.320 That's what the, that's what the LP has to become if they want to succeed.

01:05:51.160 That's what, I mean, that's why I'm here.

01:05:53.460 I think that's, that's sort of, uh, the vision that, that you and the powers that be have

01:05:58.300 for blaze TV.

01:05:59.200 Like it's a, it's a place where we're going to agree on a couple of things that are really

01:06:04.540 important to us.

01:06:05.600 Do you believe in the constitution, the bill of rights?

01:06:08.580 Do you believe America hasn't always been, but is the biggest force for good because of

01:06:15.440 the free market system?

01:06:17.000 If you believe those things, man, I don't care about anything else.

01:06:19.980 Yeah.

01:06:20.180 Just, I mean, cause those two things tell me you're not trying to change the fundamental

01:06:26.240 system and you believe in these rights that are sacrosanct.

01:06:32.100 What else is there to argue about that matters?

01:06:34.420 Yeah.

01:06:34.680 Really?

01:06:35.780 There's not much.

01:06:37.200 And so we're having a little social experiment right here.

01:06:40.080 And so far nobody's died and no, so, so were the founders libertarians?

01:06:46.360 I mean, was that how they would, would describe themselves today?

01:06:52.680 Yes.

01:06:53.100 And, and they wouldn't know that word.

01:06:54.960 Right, right.

01:06:55.360 They would, they would call themselves classical liberals, classical liberals are just, um,

01:07:00.140 Scottish enlightenment types.

01:07:02.080 I don't know what the, I guess they would use the word, word Republican.

01:07:06.280 Um, that's what Jefferson would call it.

01:07:08.860 Uh, but it was very much a, a, a libertarian vision, uh, with a healthy dose of, of radical

01:07:18.580 democracy in there, you know, and, and they, they argued about how much they would empower

01:07:24.220 people to, to govern themselves.

01:07:26.060 But in the context of everything else that had happened before them, that, that was a

01:07:30.460 radical idea that, that individuals actually mattered and that they could be trusted to

01:07:35.000 govern themselves.

01:07:35.580 So it, it probably is, I've never thought about this before, but it's probably some flavor

01:07:41.740 of, of libertarian populism.

01:07:43.620 They're raging against the machine, right?

01:07:45.380 They're raging against the King.

01:07:47.020 They have this, this very high minded, uh, vision of, of all people, uh, self-governing.

01:07:53.880 They didn't get slavery, right?

01:07:56.060 Um, we eventually got that right, but the vision and the context of where they were at

01:08:02.600 the time, which is so radical, pie in the sky, unicorns.

01:08:08.360 Um, so when I, when I think about what they did, I think, I think we might be able to fix

01:08:13.260 our problem because theirs was bigger.

01:08:15.360 Yeah.

01:08:16.580 And as far as I know, the King's not going to behead us, at least not yet.

01:08:21.420 Not yet.

01:08:21.700 Uh, let me go, uh, one more place from the founders being libertarians.

01:08:28.420 You're a dead head.

01:08:31.000 The grateful dead have all of the earmarks of libertarians.

01:08:34.960 Yeah.

01:08:35.500 I mean, they, Hey, look, it's our music.

01:08:38.740 You're having fun, you know, bring your recorder, but plug in down here.

01:08:42.800 Just take, get a good, clean copy of it.

01:08:45.020 Yeah.

01:08:45.280 You know, they're creating, they charged you.

01:08:47.860 They saw what people were doing.

01:08:49.560 They enabled them to do it.

01:08:51.400 Didn't try to chase them out.

01:08:53.360 Uh, and they became the grateful dead because of that.

01:08:58.920 Do your own thing.

01:08:59.840 Right.

01:09:00.080 Yeah.

01:09:01.100 Yeah.

01:09:01.460 It was, uh, it was a, and I, I've, I've told you this before.

01:09:05.120 I modeled, uh, to the extent that I had any influence over the organization of the tea party.

01:09:10.620 I wanted it to be leaderless and I would always refuse to tell people what to do.

01:09:16.780 I would always say, you guys, you guys figure it out.

01:09:19.760 Um, because the power in this movement comes from the bottom up and, and go back and watch,

01:09:26.200 uh, recently there's a, uh, was it Netflix or Amazon?

01:09:30.100 I think it was an Amazon three or four part series called a long, strange trip.

01:09:34.120 It's about the, the evolution of the grateful dead.

01:09:37.180 And I'd say, there was some interviews in there from Jerry Garcia that I'd never seen before.

01:09:41.420 And he was basically an anarcho capitalist.

01:09:45.320 He was, he was an anarchist in the sense that he refused to tell his community what to do.

01:09:52.020 And, and the result of that meant that it was always sort of chaos.

01:09:57.520 It was beautiful chaos.

01:09:59.180 It was super messy.

01:10:00.740 Uh, things didn't always work out right, but the upside was a tremendously large, sustainable,

01:10:07.860 beautiful community that, that had sort of self-ownership in, in defending the brand of

01:10:14.280 the community.

01:10:15.520 Um, that to me is what, is what America should be.

01:10:18.880 I don't want to be told what to do.

01:10:20.400 And I, I suspect that for all of our problems as individuals and, and all of, all of our

01:10:26.140 failings, um, we could create something more beautiful by being free than we would ever

01:10:32.180 do by having a leader.

01:10:34.500 Let's have what Jerry, tell us what to do.

01:10:37.060 It's like, no, I'm not going to tell you what to do.

01:10:39.220 It's almost, this will upset people, but he's, he's sort of like a Washingtonian sort of figure.

01:10:45.280 I'm not going to, I'm not going to be a King here.

01:10:47.820 And if you make me, I'm going to stop.

01:10:51.260 Um, so yeah, there's, there's, there's that thing.

01:10:53.560 And it was a very American thing.

01:10:55.800 And I think that's what the difference between the tea party and the nine 12 project was in

01:10:59.940 the end, there was a few set of principles, no leaders, all local leaders.

01:11:05.960 Yeah.

01:11:06.660 And the tea party had no leaders at the beginning.

01:11:09.560 And, and as it went on and on and on, it started to coalesce around some voices and, and I fought

01:11:15.540 back and forth on with myself, this is not going to last because it's not, there is no

01:11:22.860 leadership.

01:11:24.120 Um, however, I, there are nine 12 projects still around.

01:11:28.020 They're doing different things.

01:11:29.580 All of them are doing different things, but it is, it is a sense of community and, um, and,

01:11:38.340 and, and guarding your own community, right?

01:11:41.000 You know, this is who we are and this is how we interpret it.

01:11:44.400 The, the best ones.

01:11:45.980 And I, and I still speak to tea party groups occasionally that the ones that are still robust

01:11:51.020 have gotten away from politics and focused on, on local stuff.

01:11:55.780 And maybe it's local politics, maybe it's a school board, um, but things that matter specifically

01:12:01.100 to them and their neighbors, um, it might be, you know, public works projects, charity type

01:12:07.140 stuff that they're doing.

01:12:08.800 And, and if you had it all to do over again, and, and of course, nobody engineered this,

01:12:14.720 it emerged spontaneously and it, it gravitated immediately towards, we need to elect these

01:12:21.480 people.

01:12:21.800 And those, those, those, some of those people jumped up on stage and, and, and said, you

01:12:28.640 know, I'll name names like people like Sarah Palin.

01:12:31.420 She, she saw an opportunity.

01:12:32.740 She jumped up on stage and she said, follow me.

01:12:36.660 And, and I think that was the beginning of the end.

01:12:40.040 And pretty soon we had a slate of candidates and pretty soon we were defending the Republican

01:12:45.440 Congress and, and that's when, when all of the, the, the, the clash between defending the

01:12:52.620 values, which, which are clear and pure versus the political expediency of just getting down

01:12:59.960 the road that ultimately tore it apart.

01:13:03.460 Yeah.

01:13:04.020 At the beginning when it was pure values, look, we're standing up cause we believe these things.

01:13:10.500 Um, and it was in the hands of the people.

01:13:12.920 It was, it was magical, magical, you know, it was like a Grateful Dead concert.

01:13:19.820 It was, it was, there was, uh, all the drugs and yeah, without the drugs and the, and the

01:13:25.360 grilled cheese sandwiches and the tie dyes.

01:13:27.860 Um, cause everyone, everyone had probably American flag t-shirts on instead, but I still remember,

01:13:35.000 um, those, those early massive gatherings where the, the park police and, and all of the planners

01:13:44.640 that manage crowds to make sure that nobody gets hurt, um, they had no idea what was coming

01:13:51.020 and they were caught flat footed.

01:13:53.420 And, you know, as a result that the metros shut down and there was, there was no crowd

01:13:58.140 control.

01:13:58.700 There was no safety barricades.

01:14:01.060 There were no porta potties.

01:14:02.080 And everyone just kept saying, please.

01:14:04.700 And thank you didn't burn anything.

01:14:08.260 They didn't leave it a mess because the, the rules were there that they did.

01:14:12.820 No one need needed to, to, to come in Jerry Garcia style and say, I'm in charge.

01:14:19.280 Here's how you guys have to behave.

01:14:21.220 They knew how to do it.

01:14:22.680 Um, it came from the bottom up.

01:14:24.740 Um, that they believed in, uh, restoration, not destruction.

01:14:29.920 Yeah.

01:14:30.160 And of course you don't see that.

01:14:33.520 No.

01:14:34.120 With the most remarkable thing is having 500,000 people on the mall that we did on 828 and

01:14:40.000 to what, 2010.

01:14:42.420 And, uh, I saw that mall before and I saw it afterwards and it was cleaner after everybody

01:14:49.840 left.

01:14:50.320 There wasn't a scrap.

01:14:51.260 People brought their own trash bags that boggled my mind.

01:14:55.420 They brought their own trash bags and just cleaned up all the trash and just neatly put

01:15:01.280 them over by the garbage cans.

01:15:02.540 It was insane.

01:15:03.980 So you want to, you want a real time experiment of what free people do without being told to

01:15:10.620 clean them all without being told not to punch their neighbors or set cars on fire.

01:15:16.020 Um, their rules were better than any set of rules you could have come up with.

01:15:20.140 Oh yeah.

01:15:21.260 And they wouldn't have done it.

01:15:22.340 Yeah.

01:15:22.660 Had I said, and we've got to clean up the mall and we've got to have a committee to

01:15:25.800 the people that have done it begrudgingly.

01:15:28.000 Some people would have done it, but this was just spontaneous.

01:15:31.000 Right.

01:15:31.600 Yeah.

01:15:33.120 The, the next iteration tea party 2.0 is probably not a big gathering on the mall.

01:15:40.240 It's, it's probably going to be some sort of a digital gathering where people who are, you

01:15:50.560 know, I call them Liberty curious.

01:15:51.880 They're, they're sort of uncomfortable with the choices they have right now.

01:15:56.160 And they're, and they're, they're seeking a particularly young people.

01:15:59.180 They're going to YouTube and they're curating a curriculum for themselves because they know

01:16:04.060 and, and, and maybe it's Jordan Peterson.

01:16:06.380 Uh, maybe it's, maybe it's a little bit of this, a little bit of that, a little bit of the

01:16:09.920 other, um, they're looking for an alternative.

01:16:14.380 And I think they, they're going to create that for themselves.

01:16:17.240 They're, they're going to create that community.

01:16:19.480 There's a great Harvard, uh, divinity school study about how it is that young people are,

01:16:24.940 are crowdsourcing a sense of community by joining a church or joining CrossFit or whatever

01:16:32.220 it is.

01:16:33.140 They, they want that sense of community and actually use technology in a, in a constructive

01:16:37.880 way, unlike the way that, that Facebook and Twitter tear us apart.

01:16:41.940 It's human nature.

01:16:44.200 We want to belong.

01:16:45.520 Yeah.

01:16:45.880 We want to belong and belong to each other.

01:16:48.180 So Matt, as always, thank you.

01:16:50.840 Thank you.

01:16:51.200 Just a reminder, I'd love you to rate and subscribe to the podcast and pass this on to a friend

01:17:02.540 so it can be discovered by other people.

01:17:04.160 Yeah.

01:17:17.180 Yeah.

01:17:19.680 Yeah.

01:17:20.220 Yeah.

01:17:20.800 Yeah.

01:17:20.880 Yeah.

01:17:21.000 Yeah.

01:17:21.140 Yeah.

01:17:21.360 Yeah.

01:17:21.700 Yeah.

01:17:22.600 Yeah.

01:17:22.760 Yeah.

01:17:23.020 Yeah.

01:17:25.280 Yeah.

01:17:25.400 Yeah.

01:17:26.400 Yeah.

01:17:26.560 Yeah.

01:17:27.240 Yeah.

01:17:27.600 Yeah.

01:17:29.180 Yeah.

01:17:29.720 Yeah.

01:17:30.700 Yeah.

01:17:31.300 Yeah.

01:17:31.760 All right.

The Glenn Beck Program - April 06, 2019

Ep 31 ｜ Matt Kibbe ｜ The Glenn Beck Podcast

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