Ep 39 ｜ Bridget Phetasy ｜ The Glenn Beck Podcast
Episode Stats
Length
1 hour and 32 minutes
Words per Minute
163.81364
Summary
In this episode of Thick & Thin, I sit down with writer and editor-in-chief of the New York Times Magazine, Maureen Orth, to discuss her new book, "How I Became a Conservative," and how she s come to terms with being a conservative.
Transcript
00:00:00.140
Today's podcast guest is somebody who is going to make you, I think, belly laugh, made me belly laugh.
00:00:06.760
She's naturally funny. She's naturally warm. And she is uncommonly frank.
00:00:13.320
She has not had an easy life, but her perspective is phenomenal.
00:00:19.940
I don't think we agree on very much. She has always been liberal,
00:00:24.660
but now she finds herself outside of the liberal circle because she's sobered up.
00:00:29.640
And she was like, yeah, now that I see things clearly, I'm not so sure.
00:00:33.520
But she doesn't know she's a conservative either.
00:00:57.560
Yeah. And you said that a friend of yours wigged out because you were coming here.
00:01:10.940
I mean, do you really want to know all the things I've been told in advance?
00:01:14.300
Yeah. So you've been told by more than one person.
00:01:16.460
Well, I just I didn't really I don't I've stopped telling people that I'm what I'm doing in advance because the the pre backlash and Dave and I talked about this on the podcast about how I'm doing this article about self-censorship.
00:01:29.180
And then everybody tried to tell me not to do the article.
00:01:32.460
So I just don't even need to hear everyone's opinions.
00:01:36.140
I feel comfortable in my path and what I'm doing.
00:01:43.200
And yeah, somebody the other night I did a podcast and we were chatting afterwards.
00:01:49.560
And I said, I'm going to do Glenn Beck's podcast.
00:01:52.320
And he said, you realize that you are talking to somebody who's the epitome of evil, right?
00:02:03.940
Not not as if not as if it's like up for debate.
00:02:09.880
And it's hard for me to even take anyone seriously who views the world like that because you're flattening everything and everyone and all the shades of gray are gone.
00:02:22.400
And I was just talking to one of your producers before this about the night being in L.A. and the election.
00:02:27.880
And the night before I was in a yoga class and my yoga instructor was like, I can't teach.
00:02:37.420
And she said, I feel like this is the battle between good against evil.
00:02:45.400
Like, isn't yoga supposed to be against, you know, like help us with this?
00:03:00.440
I've read your writing and I think you're brilliant.
00:03:05.320
I have a hard time accepting compliments, but it's.
00:03:08.320
I mean, I think you're, you know, an Ernest Hemingway.
00:03:13.640
No, seriously, because you have a lot in common with him in some ways, you know, you are brutally
00:03:34.040
It's like you're in a desert and it's a drink of water.
00:03:38.460
It's just a big glass of water with a sign that says there's more here.
00:03:42.600
But you are you're just willing to put literally everything out.
00:03:48.720
I mean, what's the point of going through any of it if I can't help other people or help?
00:03:54.040
That was something I learned even writing at Playboy.
00:03:56.180
But what's interesting, again, is that when I was speaking to somebody about this just
00:04:00.820
yesterday, I've become a firebrand for being like saying what people think or being, you
00:04:09.980
That seems that's not it shouldn't be controversial.
00:04:14.440
It shouldn't be controversial that somebody is looking at both sides, evaluating them and
00:04:34.200
Well, this is something that's interesting because I don't know.
00:04:46.960
And this is the book I'd like to write is how I ended up going from basically getting
00:04:54.360
And they say when you get sober, you aren't going to recognize who you are.
00:05:10.680
And then here, you know, if there's and I was joking today with my friend, if there's
00:05:14.920
any evidence of a simulation, it is this interaction right now.
00:05:24.660
If someone had told me five and a half years ago, like, you're going to get sober.
00:05:28.360
And in five and a half years, you're going to be on Glenn Beck.
00:05:34.140
It's just not, it wasn't, and it wasn't like, what I've realized is really how ignorant
00:05:42.480
And I've been kind of joking about how I'm the moron majority.
00:05:47.980
I was, and I, I mean that lovingly, but most I was working and just trying to get by and
00:05:56.540
waitressing and wanted to be a writer, by the way, maybe like drunk for 20 years and
00:06:01.880
And then suddenly I started, I got sober, started writing, which was always my dream.
00:06:10.040
And suddenly I'm in the, like caught in the crossfire of these culture wars.
00:06:14.380
I'm like, did I even know what it meant to be a Democrat?
00:06:20.560
I don't know anything about, I just know that, um, I sobered up at 30 and I realized
00:06:28.580
That's, that's really, that's really the moment you're catching me at.
00:06:34.700
I think they say too, around five years where you pull your, your, your head out of your
00:06:38.600
And so I, I definitely don't feel, I feel out of my depth most of the time.
00:06:49.700
Cause you are, you are at a, such a steep learning curve where you're just questioning
00:06:55.080
everything where you're like, cause I, I took everything out of me.
00:07:00.920
I know what people told me, but I didn't learn any of this on my own.
00:07:05.520
So I took everything out of me and I couldn't afford to go to college.
00:07:11.700
So I went to the library and to the bookstore and I got all the books of the people I think
00:07:17.800
Oh, and I would, this is what I'm doing right now.
00:07:21.920
And you're like, if I could, if I could just get these two to argue, you know, and see
00:07:28.580
Cause where it intersects, that's universal truth.
00:07:38.520
And, and I started putting it all back in and it's hard.
00:07:42.760
It's hard because you're like, I remember so many times going, I don't know, I don't
00:07:57.620
Nobody's like, Hey, I want to be a pariah and a weirdo.
00:08:09.540
It's, it's being, I said yesterday, I feel like I'm playing a
00:08:12.740
giant high stakes game of improv where it's like, yes.
00:08:22.220
But you're not, but you're not just, you know, there, there's a part of Ernest Hemingway
00:08:33.640
Um, and I don't, I don't think you're reckless.
00:08:38.560
I don't think you're just like, I'll get into the world.
00:08:44.920
And so I think the fear is when I get the nonstop, uh, backlash of how much water I'm
00:08:52.580
carrying for Nazis, there is the, you know, self, the self, it's a lot of water.
00:08:59.900
I got, I got the, uh, defender of Israel award from Benjamin Netanyahu.
00:09:16.760
I find myself too, just being in that space, um, taking hits on behalf of no one really,
00:09:23.700
but I'll be getting called a Nazi on the left and getting attacked by the outright.
00:09:28.340
And that's always a weird thing where I'm, I'm like, can you tell the outright that I'd
00:09:42.360
Aren't they in some ways, I think they're the same coin.
00:09:46.520
They're, they're both big statist, my way or the highway, you know, bullies.
00:09:53.280
And the, the, again, the openness to have your mind change to change.
00:09:59.640
I think that that's, uh, I've had to reinvent myself so many times in my life.
00:10:06.140
It doesn't scare me to be open to the fact that I don't know anything.
00:10:17.160
Part of it is embarrassing at how ignorant I am.
00:10:21.140
I mean, no, no, no, it's not, it's, it's very humbling.
00:10:26.780
We are, you know, most of my problems when I was at Fox, almost every mistake I ever made
00:10:37.120
The one thing I'm certain of now, I'm not certain of anything.
00:10:41.700
And the, the more you realize, I, I, I don't really know the, the more humble you get and
00:10:51.780
the more willing you're able to, if, if I don't sit with somebody I vehemently disagree
00:10:57.100
And I think as an honest broker, there's a difference between, you know, there's those
00:11:01.300
people who are not honest brokers and right, but people who are honest brokers, people
00:11:06.000
who are, I am absolutely willing to change my mind.
00:11:10.480
If you can present the facts, you know, and you show me, okay, look, this and this and
00:11:22.760
But you show me the facts I'll debate and I'm willing to change.
00:11:27.220
If I'm wrong, I want to be, a lot of times I want to be wrong.
00:11:31.080
Although it's sometimes hard to prove a negative.
00:11:33.560
So that is where I have to watch myself because I'm, I, I'm bad at a lot of this, you know,
00:11:40.820
proven negative, like coming from a place of, um, well, we're not sure you can speculate,
00:11:48.060
but then there's what I see too, is sometimes it's like speculating and then it drifts into
00:11:56.920
And again, I see this, see this like on everywhere, essentially.
00:12:01.480
So I, I, and I have to watch myself that I'm, I'm very easily, I always come from a place
00:12:09.660
of like, well, I don't know, anything could be true, but yeah, no, I don't mean that.
00:12:14.060
I mean, because look, I'm willing to look for answers.
00:12:20.060
And if there is an answer and you can show it to me and I have a different opinion, okay,
00:12:35.800
However, um, when there isn't an answer, then we both have to agree.
00:12:43.120
I have an opinion and we're going to have to work through that.
00:12:46.500
And I shouldn't shut you up and you shouldn't shut me up.
00:12:52.980
I just, it's so interesting to me that people don't want to talk.
00:13:03.720
You may be one of them where, for instance, you know, welcome to my colony is this kind
00:13:10.560
of idea that you just, if you go the guilt by association.
00:13:14.620
And this is what I personally, what happens when you're in this space of, I don't know.
00:13:26.200
You know, I, I feel like somebody like Ben Shapiro actually has been very inspirational
00:13:31.720
to me and someone who, although we may not agree on everything, he is very value based
00:13:37.940
and he has made me kind of step back and say, what are my values?
00:13:47.020
I was saying this to Dave Rubin, you know, when I went off Twitter for 40 days, it gave
00:13:51.900
me the ability to step back and look at all of these little micro arguments that we get
00:13:59.320
I mean, I, I, I engage, I partake, I can't help it.
00:14:03.640
The trickster in me, the, the comedian in me, the part of me that likes to get a rise out
00:14:10.220
We're not, we're not supposed to know so many people.
00:14:16.880
We're, we're supposed to know, you know, Bob, the neighbor on the street who I wave to as
00:14:28.420
That's all I need to know about Bob and we can all get along.
00:14:31.700
We are, we, we, we're being exposed to all of these people and some of them are dumb as
00:14:42.100
Some of them are, you know, it's immersion therapy.
00:14:49.440
We would know, we would have two conversations with them, one in the convenience store and
00:14:53.680
we would be like, okay, honey, I just saw Bob in the convenience store.
00:15:04.540
Like it matters and it doesn't, it doesn't, it doesn't.
00:15:09.560
It's the culture wars are so weird because I, again, and this was something that I was saying
00:15:15.300
on Ruben and that I have to ask myself is what is, you know, what, how am I, how am I maybe
00:15:24.560
There is a part of me that, and it, again, it's the, the part of me that is like South
00:15:33.480
Um, I, I can't help, but think everything is hilarious on, it's another one of my values
00:15:42.960
And free speech and comedy are so, you know, they're, yeah, they're necessary and they're
00:15:52.420
You need to be able to laugh at things that are taboo.
00:15:57.860
It's why dictators don't allow laughter about them because you can belittle it and you can
00:16:07.080
I mean, one of the things that I've noticed, and I was just saying this is, uh, you have
00:16:11.180
to kind of own people in my space, whatever space that is.
00:16:17.500
Um, the IDW or whatever, uh, any, anyone who's willing to have conversations with the
00:16:24.580
access of evil, um, we are often labeled as grifters, which I feel like is a very convenient
00:16:34.380
way to try and demonize people who are willing to have conversations with people that they
00:16:40.940
might not see eye to eye on every single issue with.
00:16:57.700
Peter's sitting there and he says about 40 minutes in, I have been trying to find things
00:17:11.020
We've let these, we've let these lies or these little slivers of us on the edge, um, allow
00:17:33.400
We probably, we should be laughing, but we shouldn't.
00:17:37.580
Kate Smith, Kate Smith did a song, uh, and the Yankees and the, what was it?
00:17:48.800
You know, she's Kate Smith, you know, God bless America.
00:17:54.540
She did a song in 1931 that is called why darkies are born.
00:18:10.440
That song was written for a Broadway show mocking.
00:18:23.040
We've got to, we're going to, Mel Brooks is in trouble, man.
00:18:29.960
Any, everyone is in danger of getting canceled.
00:18:33.420
And that is the interesting thing that I feel like, you know, when it is serious to
00:18:39.560
me, when I do say, well, what is my role in this?
00:18:42.440
What, uh, how can I help in the conversation and how am I hurting it?
00:18:50.240
It is a fine line because I feel like I have to push the edge in order to get people to
00:19:04.020
They would just, even with the, I feel like we've been living under mob law since like
00:19:09.180
And I mean that by social media mob and people always say, well, free speech.
00:19:13.740
You can, you know, they're not going to come arrest you.
00:19:16.340
But when you take someone in America's livelihood away, you might as well break their kneecaps.
00:19:21.600
Like, I will tell you that mob law has been around longer.
00:19:25.180
But I mean, in terms of that, the mobbing, I feel like where we're seeing, I say 2013
00:19:30.960
just because that was when I really, that was the Justine Sacco, the girl who got on
00:19:35.200
the plane, made the joke and landed and her life was ruined.
00:19:43.040
What's, what's, what's horrible is we're entering a new phase.
00:19:49.480
I mean, you know, the mobs have been destroying and smearing people forever.
00:20:02.820
But, but when it, when it, when it turns like it did starting in 2013 to where it's anyone,
00:20:13.440
like I, when I was at Fox, oh my gosh, I, it was crazy, but it's part of my job.
00:20:21.020
And I'm, it was just like you, I have to do comedy and I have to shake the tree to get
00:20:28.360
people to listen to an hour monologue about Woodrow Wilson.
00:20:33.280
How do you make that number one on television at five o'clock in the afternoon?
00:20:39.000
So you have to, you have to, you shake the tree.
00:20:43.020
And so there's that balance and you'll always get some of it wrong.
00:20:48.920
Um, however, when they start coming after you, um, and they, they're, they're not just
00:20:58.260
coming after you and destroying you, they are now coming after you, destroying you and
00:21:07.680
If they can't, if they don't need to replace your image with that cartoon of a, of a propaganda
00:21:15.060
monster, then what they do is they just erase you, your stuff, trying to find your writing
00:21:25.320
Um, and that is apparently, you know, because they switched servers and perhaps they were
00:21:32.340
trying to, um, rebrand or pivot and they just wiped the slate clean, which I can, because
00:21:44.620
But I think even, I think even my friend, um, my friend Zarin, he's a great writer.
00:21:59.260
And I did get unceremoniously dumped with no advance notice.
00:22:05.260
We are, we are developing a world of, we're book burning.
00:22:13.260
What's interesting is the recent thing of going after the girl who they canceled and then
00:22:19.060
they had her retract her, her, her book before it even got published.
00:22:24.420
Can't burn, can't burn a book if it's never been published.
00:22:29.120
And it's just removing books and things and ideas and people just gone.
00:22:41.180
You can talk all you want, say whatever you want, but that digital wall is here.
00:22:51.020
You're still doing your thing, but you can't make any money.
00:22:55.180
In fact, you can't do anything because they've just said, no, you Jews are fine.
00:23:00.740
You can just live here in this little area and we're just going to put a big wall around
00:23:05.120
And it's frightening because people, if we were building actual walls, people would say, no.
00:23:14.940
If we were actually removing people from society, we would say, no.
00:23:21.140
If we would actually burn books, they'd say no.
00:23:30.080
It's a weird, that is the weird part of being in the space that I see that it gives the
00:23:45.380
So the people that they're maybe building walls around, they still have platforms, but
00:23:50.040
yeah, what do you do when they're, the stuff that worries me is like the demonetizations.
00:23:55.420
And recently I'm on Patreon and recently I think MasterCard, I could be wrong.
00:24:02.560
Somebody got one of the, I think it was MasterCard, but they said, we're not going to accept payment.
00:24:07.260
Now, when you're talking about the financial backing, I mean, that is terrifying because
00:24:17.620
I don't know any, I know that people can justify that, but that is again, where I'm like, okay,
00:24:22.580
in this middle, like trying to find myself on this journey.
00:24:26.460
And there are lines where it's like free speech.
00:24:29.520
You should be able to make, you know, payment centers shouldn't be deciding who they will
00:24:36.880
and won't take money based on what they're saying.
00:24:48.760
I mean, you don't, you'll never watch any of these interviews that are interrupted with
00:24:57.420
I told him I was having a dream, you know, the night before I was nervous and I had a dream
00:25:07.740
And then I told him that dream and he's like, thanks a lot, Bridget.
00:25:14.140
We're demonetized on everything always in advance.
00:25:18.780
It's so, it's so that stuff is because, and this is something that's always been really
00:25:25.780
I've always been, as I've watched technology, really interested about free markets, technology
00:25:32.220
and freedom of speech and where they're going to intersect.
00:25:39.820
We don't, we have never had so much, like you said, connection and access and so many
00:25:52.600
My nephews, I was, I just spent a week with my nephews.
00:25:58.700
This generation, whatever it is, the millennials, last generation that will watch TV.
00:26:08.880
And so to act like YouTube demonetizing people is not really deeply problematic.
00:26:23.980
And it depends on what the definition of hate is.
00:26:28.820
Um, you know, Google and YouTube and Facebook are working on algorithms.
00:26:44.120
I do not think it means what you think it determines that.
00:26:46.800
And how do you apply the terms of service equally?
00:26:49.980
If you're going to apply them equally and say, Hey, the people who are, I call it the
00:26:55.440
If you're speaking the approved message and you're saying whatever you want to say and
00:26:59.560
demonizing people in whatever way you want to say, and you're not getting away with it.
00:27:04.220
I will accept that you can apply these terms of service equally, but you're not.
00:27:08.820
You're applying them only to one, the people who aren't in the approved, the approved message.
00:27:24.040
Let me go to someplace, maybe possibly sensitive.
00:27:34.360
Uh, uh, I, I want to talk about, um, I, I, I, you, you, you, you, you use, you deflect
00:27:48.780
Uh, and so I, I want to take you back to the experiences that you had, um, that really kind
00:28:05.700
I mean, as much as I can, um, where, where do we begin?
00:28:14.040
Um, uh, I think I, I think I was born an alcoholic.
00:28:22.460
And even just my, there are examples I can think of from my childhood.
00:28:33.300
He gave me two pounds of gummy bears for my 10th birthday.
00:28:39.320
And, and then I locked my, I'm the oldest of five.
00:28:42.580
I locked myself in my dad's office, ate all of them because I didn't want to share and
00:28:50.600
And that, and I was addicted to sugar and I lied about it and I was sneaky about it and
00:28:57.000
I always feel like I've been trying to escape and get high.
00:29:01.580
Those are, those are two things that since I was, before I even found alcohol, um, my parents
00:29:07.540
got divorced and I found alcohol and I moved every year and a half and I never felt like
00:29:13.380
I fit in anywhere and people were horrible to me.
00:29:17.720
I was always the girl on the outside and always, I'm deeply distrustful of groups because I
00:29:24.240
was bullied by everyone and all, and all the time.
00:29:35.120
No, because my parents are insane and it's my mom and my step.
00:29:40.900
Well, my mom got remarried and, um, uh, that was a lot.
00:29:47.000
And so we moved a lot and I didn't really know what to do with me being the oldest or
00:29:54.380
And so they kept trying, they just were trying to figure out where to put me in school.
00:29:59.120
And then, um, I just started drinking and smoking weed when I was 12, 13.
00:30:08.500
Yeah, but it was, I didn't have to try and fit in, in schools anymore because everywhere
00:30:14.320
So it was, I just took all of my, and I was that girl that wanted to go to Harvard and
00:30:20.280
it's, I might cry if I talk about this, but because it's those things that, um, I feel
00:30:26.700
like I've had to forgive myself for is, and, and my parents and in, uh, you know, talking
00:30:35.000
about having resentments and things that I work a program at 12 step program.
00:30:40.120
So I look at things like resentments and that, uh, feeling like I got derailed off of like
00:30:47.000
my, uh, potential was somehow derailed by all of the stuff that was going on in our household,
00:30:54.980
which was, uh, I don't ever really talk about this publicly.
00:31:00.000
My, uh, there was a lot of mental illness and, um, so, you know, my mom killed herself.
00:31:16.180
I was trying to escape a pretty nutty, uh, um, like home life.
00:31:29.880
I was, I, I was in rehab at 19 and you would think that that would have kind of put me back
00:31:35.440
on the path for, so I basically started drinking at 12 and then it progressed pretty steadily.
00:31:41.680
And by the time I was 17, I was just full blown.
00:31:45.340
And, um, I finished high school and that barely my senior year was, uh, my second half
00:31:55.500
And then I went, I was working in a restaurant and we were down, I had a fake ID and we were
00:32:11.500
I went, I started going to college, but, um, I was pretty much full blown alcoholic at that
00:32:18.480
point and was running from a lot of pain and then even more pain.
00:32:25.240
And then, um, I was, I escalated to hard drugs.
00:32:35.100
I was not, I, I, it didn't manifest that way for me at all.
00:32:38.720
I hear a lot of stories of people like getting in fights and stuff.
00:32:44.420
And, um, I always thought I was a better person when I was drunk.
00:32:48.040
Yeah, I, I might've been, um, I mean, a lot of people would argue, I probably am sitting
00:32:54.480
here and they're like, get, start drinking again, bridge, start smoking weed.
00:33:02.180
Um, and I ended up in rehab at 19 for heroin and weirdly, can you tell me the experience
00:33:22.600
We're making, we're, we're making the money now by a cartel.
00:33:29.920
Um, no, it's, it's, it was the relief I always sought.
00:33:37.260
People who are listening to this might realize that by now I have, it races all the time.
00:33:42.900
I have, it takes a village now for me to keep my, I'm very concerned with, you know, mental,
00:33:52.020
These are things that I could talk for hours about because I have so much experience with
00:33:57.260
it and I just think, I see what it takes now to keep me kind of even keel and it's, it's
00:34:07.440
No, no one gives you those coping tools when you're young, which we should be giving kids
00:34:11.920
like how to regulate themselves emotionally and how to talk about something that may be
00:34:20.780
And when the first time I, I smoked heroin primarily, um, until right before I quit.
00:34:26.280
And, uh, I just remember the first time it was like nirvana, like it was just quiet and
00:34:33.020
I can get there now with meditation and, um, yoga, unless it's the day before the election.
00:34:39.900
I was actually thinking, it was funny because I was doing this, uh, crying in a garage as I
00:34:45.840
And I was, it was, this was like last week and, and I was sitting there doing my breathing
00:34:51.860
And I was like, God, if Glenn could see me now, does he know who he's having on this
00:34:57.700
And then I started thinking, I want to do that with you.
00:35:00.840
I'm like, can we do a, can we do a series where it's me and Glenn doing hippie stuff
00:35:11.980
It's the most, it's one of the hardest workouts.
00:35:16.120
And in the middle, I'd be like, I can't, I fall right dead to sleep.
00:35:22.660
It's the hardest and the most relaxing at the same time.
00:35:29.740
So I wasn't sleeping, you were just passing out.
00:35:32.720
Um, so I, I definitely, I was in, in rehab, um, but it was, it was quiet.
00:35:39.960
My brain was quiet and I, it was a quick race to the bottom for me.
00:35:46.940
And I just was essentially within a year was in rehab.
00:35:52.360
I was in the hospital and then I put myself in rehab.
00:35:55.520
It was, um, uh, I, I knew I had totally one of those like cliche independent film moments
00:36:04.500
I was out in LA with my boyfriend and I reached for something in my bathtub and then I caught
00:36:10.300
a glimpse in the mirror and I could see every rib and I looked in the mirror and I was just
00:36:19.640
And I was like, what have I become this week on lifetime?
00:36:25.520
I mean, I am like an afterschool special cliche, like every single one.
00:36:34.300
Like I'm just the cliche afterschool special girl, like take all of those.
00:36:38.540
And that's me other than, well, the cult thing too.
00:36:42.860
Well, the, there's the whole, I accidentally ended up in a, in a sex cult.
00:36:49.700
Um, so it's usually not something you just like, and the cult thing.
00:37:04.620
So I, yeah, I, I went to rehab and these women saved my life.
00:37:09.460
That was the first, the first time my life was saved.
00:37:11.640
Um, they, I was there, I stayed in a halfway house for seven months and I learned coping
00:37:19.180
And I decided that as long as I never did heroin again, I was good, you know, good to
00:37:26.600
And honestly, it is a, I got sober at 35 and 40.
00:37:36.060
And then it was like what I call the dark years.
00:37:38.080
Then I basically, I was in the pro in the program and, um, in a 12 step program.
00:37:43.480
And then I blamed everything on the program and I read all the books and I litigated, you
00:37:50.320
And I, I, I built up my case so that I could successfully leave and not have that head full
00:37:57.600
of, of all that knowledge and a belly full of booze.
00:38:01.220
This, this, um, I was talking to Tony Robbins recently and he said, I love him.
00:38:12.600
So, um, but he was saying that there was a guy that, uh, came up to him.
00:38:21.960
And, uh, the guy came up to him five years, uh, no, like 10 years later and said, you
00:38:35.140
He said, yeah, you were a guy who stopped smoking.
00:38:43.020
Then my wife left me and I just went out and smoked.
00:38:51.080
And people, a lot of people have a lot of perceptions about 12 steps and whatnot.
00:38:56.020
And, um, I don't think that there's one solution for everybody, especially because when you
00:39:02.280
start taking apart, um, what leads somebody to addiction, you'll find there's either sometimes
00:39:08.900
someone will get sober and it's like, oh, you're bipolar and you really just need medicate.
00:39:12.600
You know, you were self-medicating and sometimes it's, um, in my instance, it was, uh, just
00:39:19.700
a series of maybe genetics and also then life piled on top of it.
00:39:26.140
And I just spent most of my twenties, not even being like, Hey, to each their own.
00:39:31.940
I was like, anti, I was one of those people that was like, Oh, those idiots in their fear
00:39:37.320
based program doing something better for their lives and helping other people.
00:39:42.420
So how dare they, I just was, I had to be against it because I knew I think, and it is amazing
00:39:52.360
I mean, yoga, I, I learned, I became a yoga instructor.
00:39:56.280
I did a lot of therapy, you know, hallucinogenics, any, anything that you, I could try to, to
00:40:04.500
And eventually I just, I ended up and it's been, I used to hate when everybody said like,
00:40:11.500
everything in my life should be stamped with property of a, and now I'm like, yeah, that's
00:40:28.140
So I think from, from, for me, I feel, uh, what's, you know, it really came up when I
00:40:38.140
I said, I have been sober five and a half years and I've had Twitter the whole time and
00:40:45.340
I was, and I realized how much of an escape mechanism it was for me and how much I was using
00:40:51.180
And the feelings, a lot of the shame I've dealt with, I would say the first round of
00:40:56.280
onion peeling that I did in terms of what is going on, um, was just shame, shame about
00:41:04.120
feeling like I had failed myself, feeling like I had failed my parents.
00:41:13.920
And so then I had to, again, at 19, really reinvent myself.
00:41:17.180
And that's when I realized at 19 that I wanted to be a writer and that I didn't necessarily
00:41:24.260
So, um, all of this kind of happened at the same time, realizing that that was my path.
00:41:31.360
This, this most recent round as uncomfortable as it is for me to admit publicly, I is, um,
00:41:39.200
just feelings of worthlessness, like really deep, deep.
00:41:44.560
Um, it's like right here, uh, deep feelings of worthlessness.
00:41:49.660
And that has kind of, I've run from that, I think my whole life and that, you know, it's
00:41:58.300
interesting to see how I, all of the ways in which I react to rejecting myself, the ways
00:42:09.380
that I did, the ways I reacted to shame, the promiscuity, the, it's like those reactions
00:42:16.340
that I had to these feelings that I didn't know how to cope with.
00:42:21.400
After, um, after getting raped, I was so, I don't know how to explain it.
00:42:33.940
And I think I spent a long time running from that and it's a miracle I lived, like I lived
00:42:43.980
through it, um, because a lot of people don't, and I've seen a lot of people come in and that's
00:42:51.080
That's a hard thing about getting sober is facing yourself honestly.
00:42:55.840
And so that inventory, the looking at what my part is, even in something that I was truly
00:43:04.400
a victim, um, even in looking at how I had abandoned myself long before, even that.
00:43:17.520
So it's not even in those instances, it's not necessarily even what happens to me that
00:43:22.020
I have to take responsibility for, but how I reacted to that event in my life and the
00:43:27.380
wreckage that I caused in response to it is that's on me.
00:43:32.620
You know, it's, I, I have to take responsibility for, I, I, I forgive the fact that I didn't
00:43:38.560
have many coping mechanisms or tools or, um, you know, it's funny.
00:43:44.620
And I'm sitting here thinking one of the things that's hard about being online and being open
00:43:53.020
online is like, sometimes the trolls are right, you know, sometimes in the alt-right and I've
00:44:01.340
read these articles that they write about me from the alt-right of like, and the men's
00:44:06.840
And they say, you know, like, Oh, and her stepdaddy issues and her, and her, um, and like, she
00:44:17.020
And that is when, uh, that hurt, that hurts because they're right.
00:44:23.220
And then I'm like, am I just react like a massive reaction to, am I just projecting a reaction?
00:44:35.220
Um, it's amazing if you are, um, this is really honest, if you're a thinking and feeling
00:44:43.880
human being, how, how good it is, and yet we don't talk about it, how good it is to look
00:44:56.420
at those comments and ask yourself, gosh, am I just that?
00:45:04.260
And, and, and, and that's, you know, that's, I think part of the problem with the society
00:45:22.540
What, what happens, I think, you know, I can separate myself and say, that's not just me.
00:45:27.680
When I'm in a good place, for instance, um, what is, you know, my therapist said, I worry
00:45:35.820
about you on Twitter because you already feel like you're worthless and you already feel like
00:45:43.320
First, take me to the difference, if there is any, between feeling worthless and feeling
00:45:49.300
And if there is a difference, what is it and how are they connected?
00:45:56.040
I feel like the worthlessness, I don't know what I've really, I mean, it sounds so I, cause
00:46:05.100
I was joking that I went off Twitter and for Lent and found God and I really wasn't joking.
00:46:10.440
I really feel like the antidote to worthlessness is God.
00:46:14.540
It's the only thing that really I've been able, it's that idea of the God sized hole, the thing
00:46:19.600
that I've been trying to fill with men, no pun intended.
00:46:24.300
Um, like all, all of the substances, hopefully money.
00:46:36.360
I need to know for myself, um, that I, the feeling broken was more of a reaction to an
00:46:50.760
I feel like that was something I, I felt that way.
00:47:00.760
I don't know if it was always feeling isolated.
00:47:02.560
I don't know if it's part of, you know, being the kind of addict mentality, which I feel like
00:47:08.900
I see a lot of addicts struggle with that feeling of worthlessness or uselessness and
00:47:15.740
that, um, or if it was parenting as much as I hate to say that publicly, cause I love
00:47:26.020
my parents and feel that they really did the best that they could.
00:47:30.740
Um, which is what people always say when they're like, no, they didn't do the best.
00:47:40.440
Um, they did, and they did instill morals in me.
00:47:43.680
And I do think forgiveness and compassion is something that I really, in all areas of
00:47:52.440
my life and gratitude, these are things that they helped me to heal that part of me that
00:48:01.920
And then when I'm getting mobbed online and I put on a good front and I can, I can, I do
00:48:07.800
deflect your right a lot with humor and got good on you for seeing right through that.
00:48:13.560
But I think there's a disintegration that occurs and probably from trauma.
00:48:21.700
And I've learned a lot more about trauma is that when that filter kind of takes over,
00:48:27.460
when I'm in a place where that's been triggered, which is a word that's been co-opted, but it
00:48:35.600
I feel like that's the only lens I can see myself through.
00:48:49.800
I am all of the, I mean, the horrible things that get lobbed at you anonymously.
00:48:55.880
And I do a pretty good job of not really paying attention to it or seeing it, but you see it,
00:49:03.020
And so then I have a hard time remembering that I'm not that, that I'm, I'm, you know,
00:49:13.920
Bridget who has a dog that she rescued and she's cleaning up it's poop in her backyard.
00:49:19.560
Like come, I have to come into the, into real life.
00:49:24.300
I think it helps when you're in that, uh, the internal shame spiral is virtual, you know,
00:49:31.760
that it's a, it's, and the virtual world is a weird, perfect kind of mirror of that internal.
00:49:39.780
I mean, I was walking in LA and I don't want to swear, but this guy, he was a homeless man
00:49:46.180
and he was screaming and he was like, he's like, I can't think too loud.
00:49:53.320
And he was screaming at me and I was like, brain.
00:50:09.820
That's how, that's how I know when I'm doing well, how
00:50:15.480
I know you can relate when I can be alone with no music, no distractions, no TV on in the background.
00:50:28.280
Cause there are times I just did it this morning.
00:50:30.960
Uh, I was reading something and it triggered something, a memory of me and like a bad memory
00:50:41.960
Where you're just like, make noise, make noise.
00:50:47.960
And when you're, when you're, when you've truly let go of it and you've truly dealt with it and, um, made the amends and accepted the forgiveness for yourself, um, you, uh, that goes away.
00:51:07.760
But when you are constantly being picked at, constantly being pointed to and saying, you're a bad person, it's dangerous.
00:51:24.760
Why do you, what is the bigger thing that drives you to continue to take the hits and to keep going forward?
00:51:36.220
Because by all accounts, somebody like me probably shouldn't be doing what I'm doing because I'm not a victim.
00:51:42.380
I'm choosing to, to take, we're putting ourselves in this position.
00:51:46.100
We're saying what we're saying and there are consequences of our speech.
00:51:50.140
But what drives you, you know, there's, I'm still at the point where I'm like, yeah, I could check out and like, I mean, you, you're more at the point than me.
00:52:03.520
I look to my wife and go, you realize we could just pack everything up.
00:52:10.920
We'll never have to talk to anybody again and we'll be happy.
00:52:20.140
Uh, history when I grew up a Beck and you know, all guys are fascinated by world war two documentaries, but Beck is a German name.
00:52:35.740
My family wasn't, but I know my relatives had to be over there.
00:52:44.500
Um, and the more I read about history, there are these epic moments in history and I want my grandchildren to be able to stand up and say, you know, when that time came, here's what my grandma and grandpa did.
00:53:07.420
And, and, and, and not be, have to not have to just, you know, hang their head and go, I don't know.
00:53:20.180
Don't you want to be somebody, we're going through McCarthy era right now.
00:53:26.560
And I think it's going to get worse, but we're going through McCarthy era right now.
00:53:30.400
Don't you want your kids to be the one that said, you know, my mom, she stood up.
00:53:36.640
My mom went to jail for it because she knew it was wrong.
00:53:40.900
So, yeah, and it's funny being in the middle, seeing both of the, the hearing both of the sides, now that I've woken up, um, and the other side would say that we are on the wrong side of history.
00:53:55.020
You know, that, that's what, that's, what's interesting to me in terms of the, the, everyone feeling like they're on the right side of history.
00:54:05.360
So, but let me ask you this, you give me faith and so do so many others that, and I don't, I don't ever want to paint a broad brush that there's the right side of history and everybody on this side is on the right side.
00:54:20.100
Cause I know a lot of people on the conservative side, I think they suck.
00:54:25.540
And if, if I would define a conservative, what I am is I am trying to conserve those things of value that have helped us be a great people.
00:54:41.400
That's bad, but let's conserve the bill of rights.
00:54:45.680
Let's conserve, um, uh, the constitution as written, not the way we're doing it.
00:54:54.700
Let's conserve reason and, and logic and science, you know, not just, I'm going to make up a word and tell you what it is.
00:55:03.720
I think we need to conserve those things beyond that.
00:55:09.020
We can fight all, all day long, but those things are being lost right now.
00:55:16.060
I mean, that was what I was saying to someone the other day.
00:55:19.020
If, if I can't say boys and girls are different, you know, I, I, I guess that makes me a conservative.
00:55:26.940
If, if I, if I'm defending, if I feel like that, that saying that people, if I feel like I should be able to say that.
00:55:35.760
And now people are saying, well, you know, you're out, you're out.
00:55:39.360
It's the period that is like one of the purity tests, you know, and you know, but you know what?
00:55:43.580
That's how, that's how you know you're on the right side.
00:55:47.260
If, look, if, if I'm on, I will have anybody on the show, as long as you're an honest broker, if you're willing to change your mind, and I'm not saying I'm going to change your mind, but if you're willing, if you're open to go, you know, I don't know.
00:56:01.060
If you're willing to be an open, honest person, broker, no matter how much we disagree, I want to have a conversation because I'm going to learn something from you, you know, and, and I know I'm on the right side when, when I'm saying I'm open, let's talk, let's talk.
00:56:24.900
We have to have each other and we have to talk.
00:56:28.620
And if, if the other side is saying, shut up or you're ostracized, I know you are, I've seen the movies.
00:56:40.840
I think that's, I mean, that's why, this is why I'm here.
00:56:44.280
And that's why I have hope because you're not alone.
00:56:47.100
There are so many people who we don't, we, I don't even know.
00:56:50.200
We might disagree on a ton of really big things.
00:56:53.300
But you and I could live next door to each other.
00:57:06.460
How many people on the conservative side do you see going over to the left and joining the left and saying, you know what?
00:57:22.520
I still believe that the border is out of control or whatever, but I'm with you guys because you guys will at least talk common sense.
00:57:29.380
Because you're not seeing an intellectual, deep intellectual discovery on the conservative side moving over because the other side is shutting down all intellectual variations.
00:57:43.500
It's, it's interesting because I have seen a lot of people come from the right as you know, there's been that there, there, there seems to be a migration into the center from both camps.
00:57:54.160
And that is one area where even the people coming from the right, they're like, okay, yeah, I can see how maybe I was blind in some respects and whatever.
00:58:05.800
Because I want to make sure we're talking about the same thing.
00:58:08.300
I'm not saying, I'm saying the center is not the center as people always identify it.
00:58:20.320
I don't care if it's right or left, European right or left.
00:58:29.240
They can disagree on everything, but they agree with, you should have a right to say it.
00:58:34.960
You should write to live your life, your own way.
00:58:39.000
These people cannot tell you one way or another, anything.
00:58:43.160
So I see those who are those early 20th century dictator kind of progressive kind of thought before dictator was a bad word.
00:58:53.800
I see those people over here and I see average people moving away from that and coming here and going, look, I don't agree with you on anything, but those people are nuts.
00:59:06.700
Yeah, I think that what you see from people coming from the right is that they're seeing elements of it from that side too.
00:59:15.280
So that's what you hear from the refugees from the right.
00:59:23.860
It's the, there's the extremists have kind of hijacked the parties and, and most people are afraid to speak out against the approved message just because the approved message is so strong.
00:59:34.660
And in that battle in the middle where you're kind of trying to find your way, you're like, well, I don't want to like, I don't want to agree with, I don't agree with this, but this is, this is terrifying.
00:59:47.340
And that's where I think a lot of people are bumping around in the middle and they just are instead of, because they have jobs and kids and they, I have, and I was saying this on Ruben, you know, I've seen mommies get shamed out of mommy groups.
01:00:03.700
I've seen people, it's so, it's so radicalized.
01:00:12.500
And again, it's the flattening, but there's a lot of people who aren't flat.
01:00:16.640
They're humans like me, who I'm not, I don't think a bad person.
01:00:24.620
I really care about the more evergreen topics like addiction and mental health and, and sex and relationships and free speech.
01:00:38.480
You know, that's, that's the fight where I started and I started noticing it in LA.
01:00:45.320
I started noticing it in editorial ways pre-election.
01:00:50.760
So this was already kind of happening and I noticed that I started self-censoring and it has been interesting getting all of these emails from people all across the political spectrum, people from the right, people from the left, people, there's a certain amount of, you know, polite self-censoring that we all do to maintain civility and decency and, and just being human.
01:01:11.320
But when people are afraid that they'll lose their job because they are speaking an opinion, or I can't tell you how many, how many people have come out to me as libertarians in LA where they were like, they're, they're basically like, I'll never work.
01:01:30.680
And if it even comes out that I listened to Ben Shapiro or, you know, people will recognize me and say, Oh, I saw you on the Rubin report.
01:01:47.300
I mean, I went from the hero of the right to, uh, Donald Trump scares the hell out of me.
01:01:57.300
I mean, it's just, you, you, it is, it is, you must play for the team.
01:02:09.060
And you don't have a record here of doing any of those things or being for any of those things.
01:02:14.560
And the rhetoric surrounding it is really frightening.
01:02:17.640
You know, now that he has a track record, I can separate the rhetoric and him, which I still feel the same way about.
01:02:24.140
And some of his policies compared to the policies of, of over here, but you can't, you all subtlety is lost now.
01:02:34.100
You know, I think people who push back, especially in particular about, um, even I guess in your instance, I didn't realize that you kind of came out against Trump.
01:02:44.040
No, no, I would say I was probably enemy number one in Trump's world.
01:02:56.520
2018 was, it was after, or 2016 was after 2013.
01:03:00.440
I know, but I didn't really have to start caring about any of this.
01:03:11.720
Um, and even sober, I was just like trying to get sober.
01:03:17.440
So I, I think the reaction, the natural reaction of like, Ooh, this is not a decent person.
01:03:30.860
And I see people on the right get absolutely crucified for this.
01:03:34.620
And it is, and I, and this is really where I stand.
01:03:37.480
It's not really any, the politics I'm, you know, learning about.
01:03:41.440
Um, but I'm just like, can we return to decency?
01:03:45.860
Because I see the demonization of people and it's, I see it on both sides.
01:03:51.780
I know that everybody hates that term, both sides.
01:03:54.560
But I do see, uh, it's not just, there's, there hasn't been a lack of decency.
01:04:00.420
You can do, you can end it with, uh, Donald Trump.
01:04:04.360
If you don't like Donald Trump or don't support Donald Trump and you're on the right, you are
01:04:13.260
People are afraid to, and I am too, about what some of these socialists want to do to
01:04:19.920
And some of them are, the people around them are crazy, radically scary.
01:04:25.680
Um, however, I can judge myself what I like and what I don't like.
01:04:35.280
Don't, I mean, we've gone from don't judge me by the character of my skin to don't judge
01:04:46.520
Look, I don't, I don't like everything that this person does, but I don't hate everything
01:04:52.120
And we used to be great because we had differing opinions and we would push back and meet kind
01:05:00.220
And it was this swing and now it just feels like no one is listening to each other.
01:05:05.440
And it seems to be increasing as we approach 2020.
01:05:09.340
My hope for people is that they, I understand the urge to retreat into a tribe because it's,
01:05:19.420
It's also terrifying when you're out there just alone in the middle, trying to be nuanced,
01:05:30.800
There's nobody, there will be people who will read you and will support you, but they won't
01:05:38.240
I've had people reach out to me and say, I love that article.
01:05:41.760
And so then it is that isolating, you know, being in LA, I think without Twitter, I would
01:05:49.320
have gone crazy because I felt so ideologically isolated.
01:05:53.860
I thought I was losing my mind when I started pushing back a little bit and feeling, and so
01:06:03.900
You know, people, when they say, they'll push back and say, well, they're not knocking
01:06:07.520
on your door and they're not locking you up for saying, yet it starts in the mind, self
01:06:15.200
It starts when you start being quiet and putting your head down and not, not saying this because
01:06:21.820
I was in, uh, I was in Poland and I was with the chief rabbi of Poland and he said, proud
01:06:33.880
boldly, there were 7,000 righteous among the nations here.
01:06:38.240
Now, you know what the new righteous of them, righteous among the nations are those who stood
01:06:44.820
So there was like 6,000, 6,800, something like that.
01:06:54.600
And he looked at me and I had a totally different perspective and I didn't understand it at the
01:07:00.920
He's like, do you realize what those people risked?
01:07:06.020
He said, most people would not even come to the window because if you came to the window
01:07:11.140
and you open the curtains, you got whatever punishment they were getting.
01:07:17.740
Don't just look down, look down, look down, look away.
01:07:24.040
When we see something, it's such, it's so, I feel so, you know, I see, I see elements
01:07:33.640
of this kind of when marginalized have been repressed or oppressed or, you know, that to act like
01:07:42.460
that doesn't happen either is where I, I get, I get upset when, because this is what I mean
01:07:49.660
And the flattening is like, you're in, in this camp or in that camp, you either believe
01:07:54.980
and then we're not, I think, you know, it's like conservatives just don't care about anyone
01:08:00.340
that when you asked me what I thought a conservative was, my gut instinct is like, well, you, you
01:08:10.900
And I have learned and talked with many conservatives now and had many conversations
01:08:20.780
Cause there's that old joke of, you know, like you're a liberal in your twenties and if
01:08:26.540
You don't have a heart if you're liberal in your twenties, you don't have a head if you're
01:08:31.820
Maybe it's just the natural, the circle of life.
01:08:35.680
I think conservatives, I think it is strangely finally being understood that a lot, not all,
01:08:44.420
a lot of conservatives are for the bill of rights.
01:08:49.180
And so we don't disagree with the bill of rights, freedom of speech.
01:08:53.280
And, um, the left has always gotten that label of we're for freedom of speech.
01:09:01.160
You're for freedom of speech to put across, you know, in a jar of urine.
01:09:06.340
But if I put a statue of Obama in a jar of urine, you know, no funding for me.
01:09:12.300
But there's this place to where good people on the right and the left are saying, I don't
01:09:27.200
Because most people, one of the interesting things that was being exposed to conservative
01:09:32.280
circles, so suddenly I was being exposed online and I'd been exposed to kind of getting the
01:09:39.300
left draggings or whatever, um, pylons I hadn't.
01:09:44.680
And then I, because conservatives were sharing my work, I suddenly was getting, and then some
01:09:49.360
of the, the underbelly there, it, I hadn't seen that where I'd be like, Hey, you know,
01:10:00.100
And I'm like, no, no, no, no, that's, that's not what I'm saying.
01:10:07.440
No, no, no, no, no, that's, uh, we're not on the same team.
01:10:11.960
You have a right to say it, but I'm not with you.
01:10:20.260
So to act like there isn't, you know, and by the way, misogyny is the underbelly.
01:10:25.500
That's something like I, to act like I'm only exposed to it on the right is not true.
01:10:33.600
Um, but because it's people, because it's people.
01:10:36.800
And, but it was interesting to see like, okay, to turn a blind eye to the race, to
01:10:43.100
racism anywhere is, is not, you know, that's not okay.
01:10:47.620
No, it's like, look, I don't think I don't know those people.
01:10:53.240
And if I do know those people, I'm like, okay, I don't think we're friends anymore.
01:11:02.240
Sometimes I'll tweet something and then, um, someone like who has a large following like
01:11:09.900
that will retweet me, um, with that kind of underbelly.
01:11:14.020
And then I'll immediately tweet something that just sheds all of the, I'm like, I'm not
01:11:19.700
Just like a hashtag, uh, whatever I can say to get rid of like this, this group that just
01:11:28.200
came in and thinks something it's just been, it's wild.
01:11:31.700
You know, it is wild online and out there and staying centered.
01:11:35.800
And, and, um, I appreciate you having me on and having the guts to have this conversation.
01:11:48.540
I went to Los Angeles and I stood in a room of about a thousand people and I said, how many
01:12:09.120
Um, but it, but it, it, I have had so many conversations with, I mean, I've had conversations
01:12:18.540
Um, uh, they, they call themselves liberal, but they openly admit, you'd call me a communist.
01:12:28.460
Uh, but it's amazing how close we are in opinions when it comes to the big principles, you know,
01:12:42.380
I had dinner with 20 people in Los Angeles and they were the heads of, of big groups.
01:12:50.100
Uh, and none of them, the deal was you, you can't have a team.
01:12:55.960
You can't have a team and nobody's talking about this.
01:12:58.860
Nobody's sharing who's, who's, who I was the only conservative at the table.
01:13:04.760
And we were all in agreement on the big principles, all in agreement.
01:13:17.380
I was, I was kind of noticing this, um, recently there was that whole thing about the, and I
01:13:23.140
might be going on a crazy rabbit hole with you right now, but with the, um, Easter worshipers
01:13:28.600
where the, everybody, and there would seem to be this kind of bad faith argument and I don't
01:13:33.240
know what your take was on this, so forgive me, whatever it was, but I heard a lot of
01:13:38.060
like, they're trying to destroy Christianity, blah, blah, blah.
01:13:40.560
And my take on that was, I looked at them like, no, these people are petrified of their
01:13:49.700
Like that is how I see that, that I, I view it differently.
01:14:02.820
I, I think that the easy explanation is, is the lazy one.
01:14:07.340
I think really it's like, they're so afraid of, of, uh, of angering that kind of radical
01:14:14.280
base that has emerged that they're like, yeah, it's like the most awkward thing to say that's.
01:14:21.300
And so again, being in the middle, I kind of have this perspective where I'm like, no guys,
01:14:26.420
I don't think, I think it's way worse than you actually think.
01:14:36.960
I know, but it, it's, uh, it, I don't, I think it makes more sense than like everyone
01:14:43.240
No, it's just that, that is a very, um, flattening.
01:14:50.260
Yeah, but they do, but, but if you are afraid to say Christian, then somebody along the line
01:15:01.280
I guess if you like ideologically follow that thread, I just see it as again, a kind of example
01:15:15.200
If I keep following that thread, it does mean somebody along the line up at the top.
01:15:21.620
They're not like, no, you guys can write Christians.
01:15:49.500
He's, he can always considered himself a communist.
01:15:53.280
But as I said to him, I said, cause then he bailed.
01:15:55.840
He just bailed like two years ago and came out and was like, okay, I'm not with these
01:16:02.720
I mean, you've been a communist your whole life.
01:16:18.280
He said, and these people who actually believe it are terrifying.
01:16:27.000
My ex-husband is from Belarus and he's like, I did not come to this country for all of you
01:16:37.280
I get, I get stopped in the streets by people from Eastern, you know, the Eastern block
01:16:41.900
and they'll stop me and they'll be yelling at me about Americans who don't get it.
01:16:54.260
It is interesting because I was telling Kay when she was doing my makeup, she, my,
01:17:00.040
about a story about my ex and how he, we were watching the Simpsons.
01:17:04.220
He was really smart and he had, he understood satire, even though he came with barely any
01:17:08.980
And then he didn't understand the toilet paper, um, reference that they were making.
01:17:13.160
They were throwing toilet paper in the trees, which if you're American, you're like homecoming,
01:17:17.320
And he's like, Bridget, uh, what is this toilet paper?
01:17:25.300
And he's like, so when I was standing in line for toilet paper, you were throwing it in trees.
01:17:39.200
I mean, he, it's like, this is, this is, that's not fake.
01:17:44.460
How can people, I mean, I really want to talk to Hollywood and say, remember when you were
01:17:55.060
I don't know anything about their position on it.
01:17:59.280
We have, how are we so happy about socialism when you've got all of history, but then you
01:18:06.220
have one here that they all touted and they're starving to death.
01:18:14.740
It's, it's, it's weird too, because I do think that a lot of America's problem in general from
01:18:23.420
everyone is that they don't leave America enough.
01:18:26.500
And not just like going to Italy abroad, I mean, for your semester abroad or whatever.
01:18:33.780
I mean, go to countries that don't have, go to India, go, I was in Sri Lanka for two months.
01:18:43.180
I mean, go to countries where Bill Burr does a great standup routine about how he, you know,
01:18:51.040
lucky we are in America, but just how there was a little Indian kid.
01:18:54.460
And he said, I was in India recently and this kid just came out and he was buck naked and he like
01:18:59.760
took a poo right in between two cars and then just disappeared into the crowd, like Jeffrey Dahmer at
01:19:07.040
And he said, it was the most heartbreaking thing I've ever seen.
01:19:11.760
And it, it, I feel like the answer to so many of our issues is gratitude.
01:19:18.400
Just coming back into gratitude for what we have.
01:19:22.060
All this talk about privilege, the height of privilege is sitting around online,
01:19:31.020
If this is your, if a statue, have you been anywhere?
01:19:39.020
If a statue is keeping you down, you've got a pretty great life.
01:19:44.600
Oh, it's, it's the height of, it's magazine cover, whatever the like outrage du jour is.
01:19:52.660
It's so, it is privileged to be able to just be like online.
01:19:59.720
And it's, it's mind boggling to me because it just seems, I'm like, you guys don't see
01:20:05.700
This is also something I always saw during the whole election cycle is all these women
01:20:09.580
being like hashtag the bachelor and then they'd be like a reality show president.
01:20:14.560
I'm like, ladies, no, no sense of self here and no self-awareness at all.
01:20:23.160
They're not going to see how we might've contributed to this culture.
01:20:30.700
Uh, I've said since probably 2005, alcoholics are going to save the world.
01:20:58.300
We've got a problem that's way beyond our control.
01:21:03.480
We, and this is something that in the book, if I ever get to write it, um, it's, you know,
01:21:11.460
And so again, this is where I have to look at my role and I look at, at the space and
01:21:17.280
there's, there's a whole economy that's been built around this around here in my studio.
01:21:23.980
So, yeah, I mean, this has been built on the very same thing and I'm trying to do good
01:21:30.560
and I'm like, how, how do I, how do I, how do I, how do I do the good and, and be in this
01:21:43.900
I was going to ask you too, how you, how you handle, I mean, I can't remember who it was.
01:21:50.780
He was doing one of those, like, ask me anythings.
01:21:53.400
And I feel like he had some, uh, he said something about the realizing that you have this audience
01:22:04.380
And I, I wonder, you know, how, and I see it on, again, it's like the whole economy of
01:22:14.100
When you dare to step outside of maybe what your target demographic is, and then they turn
01:22:19.980
I mean, I think recently, even like this happened to Rogan, we had Jack Dorsey on his
01:22:24.200
whole audience turned on him and it was fascinating because you kind of think he's like untouchable.
01:22:29.140
And, um, I wonder, you know, how do you, how do you, if you're part of it, how do you get
01:22:40.300
Um, you're like, yes, I'm having you on my podcast.
01:22:48.380
When I first sobered up that puzzled me so much, I couldn't imagine, you want to talk
01:22:55.380
about privilege living in a world where the phrase, there are many things that I believe
01:23:02.500
that I shall never say, I shall never say the things I do not believe.
01:23:07.220
That I read that from a philosopher, uh, scientist in the enlightenment period.
01:23:16.480
And I read that and I thought, what kind of world do you live in where you're afraid to
01:23:23.620
say the things that you believe that was in the nineties.
01:23:27.860
We're in that world and there are many things that I believe that I shall never say, but
01:23:39.480
And if you, if you, um, I shouldn't emphasize many things cause there's not, there's just
01:23:48.240
a few things that are just like, that won't, that won't do any good cause it will be misunderstood
01:23:54.140
and we don't live in a culture that can parse things out.
01:23:58.860
Um, but you, because I'm an alcoholic, this goes back to alcoholics who saved the world.
01:24:22.960
You know what's funny is I was saying that on the way here.
01:24:35.760
This person's going to use me as a flotation device for sure.
01:24:38.720
But in front, you're like, oh, everybody cares about me.
01:24:45.960
When you sit in first class and they close the curtain, it just creates class envy.
01:24:52.200
It's just like, we're not going to look at you people.
01:24:56.280
You can always tell the people that got the upgrades versus the people who belong in first
01:25:03.040
And the people who are like first class, they're just down.
01:25:06.720
I don't even look at you people schlepping to the back of the plane.
01:25:12.060
I was in the back by the curtain and I looked back to somebody who was flying with me.
01:25:22.480
You're like, everything can go away except my private jet.
01:25:31.940
Um, but the, the thing that, and I think it's what you do, you've lost everything.
01:25:49.000
And you can lose that through action, but you can also lose that through inaction.
01:26:00.780
And it's just been, I said, when I got sober, I know what my life looks like when I'm drinking
01:26:07.340
And it wasn't, people always ask me why I got sober this time.
01:26:10.220
They think that it's some answer like, Oh, I got a DUI or I, you know, whatever.
01:26:20.040
And my, some of my aunt and uncle's friends asked me this on the beach one day and they're
01:26:28.960
I felt like I was, uh, and that has gone away and I knew where my life would kind of go,
01:26:37.360
I never knew where it would take me when I got sober clearly.
01:26:43.660
Apparently as my dad goes to the dark side, um, I just never knew.
01:26:48.880
And it's been, it's just exciting and terrifying.
01:26:54.900
But like you said, I've already more terrifying to me is relapsing or losing.
01:27:07.180
I don't, I, I feel like the shame has, I don't have that shame that I came into the program
01:27:13.700
with the shame of things I had done to myself, been allowed just all of the,
01:27:18.760
the shame that I came in with, um, and into sobriety, I feel like is gone.
01:27:25.100
You know, that doesn't mean that there aren't massive blind spots that are going to pop up
01:27:32.540
Best advice I ever got from an alcoholic, um, was when you least expect it, expect it.
01:27:39.280
Because you're, you know, you better than anybody else.
01:27:43.840
And so you've prepared all these defenses and all of a sudden one day you'll find yourself.
01:27:50.180
And this, uh, this happened to me about five years in and I'm like, oh my gosh,
01:27:54.800
if he hadn't have told me this, I would have failed.
01:28:00.280
Because your brain will find a way, a pathway, and it will come to you as completely reasonable.
01:28:12.500
You have that coin because I was sitting alone at the bar just waiting, you know,
01:28:17.600
going to get dinner and I, I feel the craving really isn't there.
01:28:22.440
And then suddenly it was like, oh, that drink looks really good.
01:28:25.300
And I was nervous and feeling, um, all kinds of emotions just in general.
01:28:33.780
And I went to a, you know, I took myself to a meeting, which is the, not my normal behavior.
01:28:39.540
I mean, that's my normal behavior now, but it is that like insidious kind of sneaky and
01:28:48.740
It'll come, come through like, oh, this seems like a good idea right now.
01:28:52.500
And I, I would, I would, I get so, when, when I was asking you why you do it, I, it got
01:29:04.240
me thinking about why I am doing this and this conversation, I will have this conversation
01:29:11.300
I will, in particular about recovery and getting and shame and feelings of worthlessness.
01:29:16.820
I went on Gavin McGinnis and we talked about my heroin addiction.
01:29:21.300
And I mean, that was like, you know, that was the all right, essentially, as everybody
01:29:34.780
And, um, I, we mostly talked about my addiction recovery and the path.
01:29:42.600
And I cannot tell you how many emails I've received from people who saw that show.
01:29:47.320
And we talked about kind of signs to look for with your teenagers.
01:29:50.560
If they, if he said, you know, what could somebody have looked for with you if, and when you were
01:29:56.300
a teenager, how could they have known that something traumatic had happened to you?
01:29:59.580
And we talked about that and people have emailed me and I've talked to people's kids who are
01:30:06.280
And we have a massive opioid addiction crisis in this country right now.
01:30:12.380
That's just somehow, you know, people are struggling with this and yeah, that's, that's more important
01:30:21.180
It's, it's, it is the most important thing to me.
01:30:37.220
Because when you start to feel worthless, because I, I can't, I don't know if we feel
01:30:44.180
I feel like, I guess worthless, that what I do has absolutely no value.
01:30:51.740
What keeps you, what are the things that inspire you?
01:30:54.260
Things like this, the, the emails from people, the personal individuals.
01:30:58.580
I remember the people who will come up and say, you changed my life and I don't know them.
01:31:06.780
I only get, people don't say that to you all the time.
01:31:32.100
Just a reminder, I'd love you to rate and subscribe to the podcast and pass this on to a friend