Ep 55 ｜ Whistleblowing AGAINST the DNC ｜ Andrii Telizhenko ｜ The Glenn Beck Podcast
Episode Stats
Length
1 hour and 14 minutes
Words per Minute
159.78964
Summary
Andrei Teleshenko is a former advisor to the prosecutor general in Ukraine, the guy that Joe Biden fired. And if you think he s going to be an apologist for him, you ll be shocked to hear he didn t last long with that prosecutor general. Why and why is he sticking up for him today?
Transcript
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Hello, America. Today we have a fascinating podcast. This is a guy who has been speaking
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out on what's going on in Ukraine for about three years now. His name is Andrei Teleshenko. He is a
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former advisor to the prosecutor general in Ukraine, the guy that Joe Biden fired. And if
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you think he's going to be an apologist for him, I think you'll be shocked to hear he didn't last
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long with that prosecutor general. Why and why is he sticking up for him today? You'll see. He's also
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a former advisor of the first deputy prime minister of Ukraine. He has a lot of credentials. He also
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has seen a lot. He went to work for the Ukrainian embassy in Washington, D.C., and he actually was
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the guy who set up the meetings between their anti-corruption bureau in Ukraine and the DOJ
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and the Obama administration meeting at the White House. He said red flags were everywhere and he
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brought it up to the ambassador and he has been talking about this for years. Nobody really wanted
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to listen. Now he's trying to let his voice be heard. But media companies say, well, your story
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doesn't match with the story that we're telling. It doesn't match with what we're hearing from the
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ambassador. Well, you know who it does match with? Our chalkboard. While we have a few things
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wrong, perhaps in the chalkboard, he sets us straight on those things. Do you believe him?
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You're going to have to decide. Listen to him. Or if you're viewing this, look him in the eye and tell
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me if you think he's just playing a game and just trying to do the bidding of Rudy Giuliani or if he's
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telling the truth. Today, a one on one with Andrei Teleshenko from the Ukraine.
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I don't know if you watch much television or see much of what's going on here, but we don't know
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who to believe. We're getting two separate stories and the investigations that we have done, we have
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found a completely different story than what we're getting in the media. Have you seen any of our
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Yeah, I just actually, a couple of days ago, my friend sent me a link to your program. When you
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described the whole narrative, what happened from the beginning, so basically today, on the collusion
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of the DNC, on the Biden story, on everything. So basically, I watched it, and then I got a call from your
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show to go on air. So that was interesting. And you talked about it perfectly, almost time to time,
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Nate was involved. So it was a good picture to actually give an example in your program to other
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people to understand what is happening in the story. Because a lot of people don't know, they think,
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well, it's only today that Giuliani started this investigation. You don't understand what happened
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in the years before this. And it's a bigger picture than that is in the last media today.
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Right. And I want to get into what has happened with Giuliani, et cetera, et cetera. But I really want to
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start at the beginning, because I think there are two stories. Did Trump do something wrong? Did Giuliani
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do something wrong? And that is separate from what were the Democrats doing? If they were both doing
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something wrong, we should know that. If one side was doing it, we should know that as well.
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I just want to find out the facts on corruption, because your country has enough problems. You don't
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need Americans coming over and making things worse. Let's start here. You were the former advisor to
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the prosecutor general of Ukraine. That was Shokin, was it not?
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It was Garama and it was Shokin afterwards also. I worked with him for three, four months and then
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I resigned and went to work in the Ukraine, everything in Washington, where the other guns
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happened. So can you help us get a handle on Shokin? Shokin is now said to be totally corrupt,
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but we don't know what the corruption was. He was fired because he was corrupt, didn't have anything
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they say to do with Burisma. First of all, can you tell us about Shokin and the charges that he was
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corrupt? Has he ever been charged with corruption? What is the story on him?
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Victor Shokin, the former prosecutor general of Ukraine, was never charged with any corruption deals.
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And for everybody to know, even though I worked for him, I resigned because I didn't support some of
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his ideas that he was working on at that time. It was not only Burisma, but there's a billion things
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to work on in Ukraine and I didn't support someone. So that's why I resigned. And so I don't want to
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protect anybody here. And I just want to say what really happened is a whole project of pro-liberal
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media NGOs were barricading the prosecutor's office, Shokin's office, my former other boss,
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Iyer Irma's office at that time, and protesting against corruption, even though we just started
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working. Shokin, as he became the prosecutor, the second day they started to protest. Those NGOs,
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the pro-Soros, pro-open world foundation NGOs who were attacked, involved in this also. And they just
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said, oh, you're corrupt from day two. And that was, they had no narrative behind it. They had no
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evidence. Shokin was never prosecuted for corruption. And there was no court ruling. There was not even
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an investigation. So the only corruption case there is, is Biden talking or anybody else from
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the Open World Society Foundation or Burisma talking that he was corrupt. On the other hand,
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we have no evidence. Maybe he was, maybe he wasn't. That's for the court and for the prosecutors
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and investigators to prove. Okay. That clears up an awful lot. So let me ask you this or restate this
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to make sure I'm on the right track. You worked for Shokin, but you left his employee. You quit
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about four months in, not because of corruption, but because you didn't necessarily agree with the
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things that he was prioritizing. Is that correct? Yes. I didn't agree with some of the priorities he
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was taking. And my advice was not listened to. So I said, look, I'm just going to resign and move
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forward. You do your work and we'll continue to be in contact if needed. That's it. That's how I
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laugh at it. I still had good contact with the prosecutor's office after that and still agree
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today. Right. But so you have, you're not carrying water for him because you don't necessarily agree
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with, with his policies. You just don't, he wasn't corrupt. And it was, I want to make sure I
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understand this because this is something that the American media will never cover. And that is
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you say that it was from day one, the George Soros organization that was, that wanted him out.
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Why would they want him? Why would they want him out?
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That was the question we were asking them. We came up to the protesters. I was the one who actually
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coordinated communication with the protesters on his behalf, on the prosecutor general's behalf,
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asking, look guys, what happened? What is the story behind your protest? We're ready to cooperate.
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Let's go in. We'll show you what's needed. Let's get involved together. You are the NGOs. You're
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another organization. So let's cooperate together and fight corruption. We invited them to the
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prosecutor's office and they'd still, after that, even got worse and protesting all over Facebook,
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all over physical protests every day by the prosecutor's office. And nobody knew at the time
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what were they doing? What was their agenda? But their agenda was at the end, as we see today,
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is the Burisma investigation against Burisma money laundering money and Biden for Biden being
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involved in it. That's the main thing we see today as their narrative, because at that time,
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All right. So let me go back to the United States and let's start taking this timeline a little bit.
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Um, how high hands on was the Obama administration in Ukraine?
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That was fully after my done. And I was also active participant of my done. I was one of the
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leaders of the, out of my done and coordinated all the international work with, uh, the state
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department and other embassies in Ukraine. And during that period after my done, after the revolution,
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there was a hard on, uh, coordination from Washington, from the white house, from Biden,
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exactly coming to Ukraine every time and telling everybody what to do in a matter, which was
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inappropriate for a foreign country to intervene into internal politics. So another foreign sovereign
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country. And when you say he was telling people what to do, what do you mean? He was telling people
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what to do. Oh, you should, you should guys put this guy in prison. You should not touch that guy.
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You should do whatever we tell you, because we know what to do better. You guys are corrupt and we
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will handle it from here. Now we will give you money. If you don't do this, we will not give you money.
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So this example of firing and choking was not the only example. His involvement in Ukraine was on
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withholding funds for Ukraine. I was in those meetings when we asked for us assistance,
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military assistance or military aid to Ukraine when the war in the East started and Crimea got
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annexed. And we were told, no, prove it. It's the Russians and we will help you, but we will only
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give you blankets or medical aid kits. So when Biden's telling them we will help Ukraine or we're
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going to help Ukraine, he's doing basically the opposite of what he told us at that time. And he
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was telling us the opposite of that time, what he's told us today, the U.S. public during this election
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process. Okay. So let me play devil's advocate here. And I don't mean to insult you or your
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country by any stretch here. I just, okay. If I had $2 trillion, $2 billion, $500, and I'm going to
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give it to somebody, but I think they have a history of being corrupt. I would be saying, look, you got to
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change your lifestyle. You got to get these corrupt people out. Is it unreasonable for us if we're
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giving you money to say, Hey, we just want to make sure this money is being watched over. It's not being
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abused. It's not, it's not involved in more corruption.
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That's a reasonable advice, a reasonable approach, but we were telling them, look, let's work together
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to reform our corrupt, our anti-corruption bodies, the prosecutor's office, the secret service, the
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police. Let's not form something new, but they wanted to form something new, which was a hundred
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percent reliable and only to the U.S. government or to the FBI or the DOJ. That was the problem.
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Ukraine in 1994 gave away the third largest nuclear arsenal in the world for in return, nothing.
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And we were guaranteed a sovereignty and military support or military aid protection, which we
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never received when the war started with Russia. And when they intervened in our political processes,
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and we have examples like Egypt were getting $2 billion for 20 years without nobody asking why is
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Egypt corrupt or uncorrupted. So there's an issue there today, but Ukraine, on the other hand,
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that was a project which everybody wanted to come in and tell us what to do. That was the problem.
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And we cannot do that. If we don't want any aid, if you tell us, we want to give you just aid.
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Don't go on your own and we will work on your own. We will reform our country on our own, but we want to
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work together with the United States as an ally, not as a father or a godfather to us who will tell us what to do.
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Unfortunately, by President Biden, when he would come in with his old staff and the U.S.
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embassy in Ukraine would, in a very inappropriate manner, tell the Ukrainian government or the
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prosecutor general what to do, how to do it. And basically, there was an intervention into this
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whole inner Ukrainian process, which was unacceptable from what I saw, even though I grew up in the
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States. I like American values, but every country is sovereign. I cannot come to the United States and
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tell who to vote for, who to support. I can only give my example as an option. That's for you guys to
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choose what to do next. And this is the same thing you want here.
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All right. So let me skip ahead a little bit. The United States insisted that we start a
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national anti-corruption bureau and that it was our design.
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And we would put it together with you and we would become partners on this.
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My feeling is, and I have nothing to back this up other than looking at the storyline, and I'd love
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your opinion on this. My feeling is, is this is the United States government's way of controlling it
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even more, uh, and making sure that corruption is, is all funneled through our people and the people
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that we have helped select as evidenced by, you know, the, uh, the guilty verdict by, uh, you know,
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on the, on the guy who was the head of that organization. Is this, is this the right way to look at it?
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It was formed as something that the U S government thought it would work, but in the Ukraine
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realities, it didn't. And we were telling them, it's not going to work. If you're going to just do it,
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copy the U S idea or example, and just implement it in Ukraine, we have a different value system.
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We have a different ethic system and different cultural system, which you also have to put on
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attack, but they only listen to the open world and attack foundation, which was found funded by
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them because then they would not, those guys would not tell them, Oh, this is bad because they would
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want to still receive money from that. Cause if they were, as soon as they would tell them,
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this is not going to work, the funding is going to get out, get cut off from them. But when we told
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them it's not going to work, they started telling, Oh, you guys are prosecuted or you should be
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prosecuted. You should, you, we should not listen to you. It's not. And this is the problem. They only
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listened to the people who didn't tell them, didn't act as devil's advocate. They were just
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telling them what they want to hear. And they implemented the system, the NABU, the Ukrainian
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anti-corruption body, which is working for a couple of years already. And the people are getting good
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salaries. They're over $5,000, which is pretty good for Ukraine when everybody else is an average of
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maximum up to a thousand dollars in salary. And these guys are investigators getting more than $5,000
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every month. And the head is getting up to $15,000, zero cases, zero cases were prosecuted or
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given an outcome to the court within the next, within the last couple of years. And the problem
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is, is that it was all coordinated with the US American here and nobody else listened to anybody in
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Ukrainian who tried to intervene into the system. That was the problem. And it was not only Ambassador
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Ivanovich who was taken out of her post, but it was also a fellow remaining in George Kent,
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who was a DCM at that time. And he was the godfather of the NABU. He was before the director of INL.
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It was a division within the State Department who oversaw all the anti-corruption bodies all over
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the world or police forces and prosecutor forces. And he was the one who implemented this idea.
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But unfortunately, he had only listened to his NTAC fellows, which didn't tell them anything.
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And that's the Soros group. They were listening to the Soros group.
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Yeah. I'm taking the Soros funder organization, a US funder organization, which money launders
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running within their own system and then just makes money, millions of dollars from the US
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government and from your taxes and from people from Soros. That's how they work. And everybody's
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posting their eyes on their corruption. But when they want to focus on corruption, they try to get
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Shokin or anybody else to say these guys are corrupt. So Andre, let's let's go now to Burisma
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and Hunter Biden's role there at Burisma. There's a couple of things that bother me beyond money,
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but let's start with the money. Joe Biden comes in. And as he is talking to your government about
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anti-corruption, you are also talking about investing billions of dollars into the natural
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gas and oil industry. The natural gas and oil industry is, if I understand the workings of
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Ukraine enough, that is where big money is. And a lot of corruption flows through the oil and gas
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industry. Correct. So, so when, when the vice president says, I'm going to play point man,
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and I'm going to direct this money. And he says, Burisma, you know that, that the guy who's running
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Burisma also is running a, how do you say it? Private bank, the big bank there.
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No, that was the, that was another oil guard. That was Kolomoisky. He didn't have any connection
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with Burisma. It was Mr. Luchewski, a former minister of ecology under President Yukovic.
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And private bank was owned by Mr. Kolomoisky. It's another oil guard not connected to Burisma at all.
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Oh, I thought he was. He does invest in gas a lot. He has a lot of gas investments, but they're not
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connected to Burisma. They do work together on some projects, but not, they're not. Okay.
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I thought they were good. Good correction on that. Um, we might come back to that, uh,
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just so I understand it. Um, um, all right. So, um, Burisma is known as what kind of company,
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clean company, good company in Ukraine at the time?
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At that time, a lot of people did not know what Burisma was. And it was brought out by,
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to the public, by the government of Ukraine. And when, uh, the first, uh, one of the first
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prosecutors, after my daughter, I opened the investigation into their processes and had a
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court in London, which unfortunately, Ukraine lost due to the lack of, uh, professionalism. Some
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bodies within the prosecutor's office were also affiliated with Soros people. But that's later
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There was Burisma in Ukraine is also known as a company, which is connected to Mr. Zlochevsky,
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a guy who was working under Yanukovych, the minister of ecology of Ukraine, and made a lot of money,
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millions and millions of dollars through corrupt schemes and government laundering money back and
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forth. And that's where he invested this money into this company called Burisma and tried to make it
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clean by getting us, uh, uh, citizens, uh, top citizens as we saw and helping move influential
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people into the board of directors of this company and basically put it on the market as one of the
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top largest developing gas and oil companies in Ukraine. Why was, why was Burisma selected
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by, uh, Joe Biden and the United States to be the recipient of, of the money?
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Uh, once again, uh, recipient of which, uh, the billions of dollars. Yes. That, that I cannot
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answer. That is, but maybe because Hunter Biden wasn't on the board, but I cannot answer in detail.
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Okay. Okay. So it was, it was not a, it was like a no bid contract. I mean, it, there was not bids
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that were coming in from all the different oil companies or gas companies. We just selected this
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company. In Ukraine, if there's a bids, the Ukraine, the Ukraine, the Ukraine knows how to fix those
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bids. And basically they put up all the contestants there on the bids who cannot, who can do something
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and who will win. And you will know who's going to be the winner from the beginning. And if they just
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make it on paper to look nice and file it as a report, but the real stuff, there's no
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bids. It's just one company who comes in, the other winners are incompetent at all. And the,
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the company that comes in like Bruce or anything else can just put them right away without going
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through the whole process and just put some paper that the process of what did go through
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and basically it's already corruption. So the corruption that Shokin was looking at,
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and I don't know if we're going to be able to get to this whole answer here before the break,
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but the corruption that Shokin was looking at, did it revolve around Joe Biden's son? And did Joe
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Biden clearly know they were looking into that corruption when he asked for Shokin to be fired?
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First of all, yes. So that was the case that Shokin was, the prosecutor's office under Shokin was looking
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into the case of that money and Hunter Biden involvement and the money, how they laundered money
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out of Ukraine, because that was also a case and with the Ukraine national bank and all the
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Baltic banks that were involved within the Cyprus bank. And that was the case that Shokin was looking
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after the London case was lost prior to this couple of months. And then when Biden came in,
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Biden knew what Barista was. And I can tell you that, and he was involved, he knew what his son
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was involved in and he knew what he was doing there. He was not doing anything there because he's not a
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professional politician, economic expert, foreign gas expert. He was there to his father. And that was
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the main idea why Biden helped Hunter Biden to be in this country.
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So you, you say Joe Biden did know that his son was on the board, he knew what was going on,
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and he knew that Shokin was investigating that goes against everything that the media and Joe Biden
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is saying today. But you have to understand some of the logical points without my evidence or anybody
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else's evidence is you're the vice president of the United States. Your son goes on the board of
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directors of a foreign company. You have the authority to find out what the company is from different
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sources. Start from intelligence, the United States, I mean with other audits, et cetera, et cetera.
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So you know what your son is involved in and you actually, you follow the steps. That was what
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Mr. Biden was doing, being really hardcore involved in Ukraine. Basically when he used to come to Ukraine,
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he was thought as, he was named Uncle Joe. Everybody who knew him was in contact with him.
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They could solve their problems, gain power, even though if they were corrupt. But if you like them,
00:24:01.460
if they spoke good English and they have liberal values or views, you keep them in power. Even though
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they were corrupt or had 0% ratings, as one of our former prime ministers, Mr. Yatsinuk, who's a good
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friend of Mr. Biden, and he kept him for a long time to be in power. Even though the people of
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not support him, his party in the government had 0 rating, they didn't even ballot themselves on the
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last election. This is an example of what Mr. Biden was doing in Ukraine.
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What was the reaction of the Ukrainians when Biden gave this ultimatum? You're not getting a dime unless
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you fire him before I get on the plane. What was the reaction by the government and the people?
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First of all, it wasn't public at that time, but his reaction was as it was. He talked about,
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when he became public that video from the conference, when he talked about firing Mr. Shokin and calling him
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a bad word. I want to talk about it here in the media. And that was a few reaction from a lot of
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everybody else. Basically, corrupt or uncorrupt, you're talking about a former government official
00:25:17.220
or foreign country, and you're being the former vice president. It's like, I'm going to come out
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on your show and start talking about the former president of the United States or anybody else from
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the former government. It won't be unacceptable to anybody. So basically, when this happened,
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a lot of people in the government knew what was going on when he fired Shokin. And everybody knew
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that it was under the order of the Vice President Biden, because it was all coming to this stage with
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all these protests, with all this pressure from every NGO, from all the other affiliated organizations
00:25:50.820
with the U.S. Embassy and who were involved in fighting corruption, as they call it in Ukraine,
00:25:57.140
it was coming to this point that somebody would get fired. And it was, everybody knew,
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a month before this was going to be Mr. Shokin. But we didn't think, the Ukrainians did not think,
00:26:08.660
that it will go to this end, that the Vice President would put an ultimatum on firing a
00:26:14.580
government official. Because before they used to talk about it, you should fire this, you should
00:26:19.220
fire this. But it was not for me to inform, I'll give you a couple of hours, and you should do this.
00:26:25.780
Because after they fired Shokin, when they had Mr. Lutsenko hired as a prosecutor general,
00:26:32.660
a voter in him as a prosecutor general, they had to change the law for him to become the prosecutor
00:26:37.780
general of Ukraine. He was basically, he doesn't have a law degree until today. He had to become
00:26:44.180
the prosecutor general by the changing of the law, which is a whole different procedure within our
00:26:51.140
system. So basically, they just spit on everybody and did what they wanted. And they put somebody who
00:26:56.740
was affiliated to Poroshenko, and who Poroshenko could control as the prosecutor, instead of putting
00:27:03.620
some professional who could really do things into the prosecutor. All right, so hang on, hang on,
00:27:08.740
hang on. There's a, hang on, there's a lot to unpack here. There's a lot to unpack here. So let me,
00:27:13.940
let me go back. So the people, they knew that, I mean, the Eastern Bloc countries, the former Soviet
00:27:21.620
Bloc countries, they're very clear on who Soros is. Some countries have banned him from involving
00:27:29.460
himself at all or any of his NGOs. So they're very clear on who he is, where here in America,
00:27:35.540
we deny any nefarious intent from George Soros. So the people knew that these protests on the street
00:27:44.500
were coming from these Soros NGOs. And they, did they view Shoken as a good guy standing up against
00:27:54.580
this NGO or not? You have to understand, they, people didn't understand what was going on. Some
00:28:01.460
did view him as an okay prosecutor. Some did not, because you understand if you, it depends how the
00:28:07.140
media spends it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And half the media spend it one way as a pro-left, the pro-Soros
00:28:14.740
organizations wanted it, and half the media spend it as a neutral way as it really was from the
00:28:21.220
beginning. Basically, the society was divided, and when Shoken got fired, the society was divided also.
00:28:27.780
So, but when they found out that it was the United States government and Joe Biden,
00:28:34.980
there had been no prosecution, no investigation of Shoken. And so the people must have been
00:28:42.580
more than a little shocked that this came so strongly from Joe Biden.
00:28:49.940
Of course, because, and the reaction of the people was the election process in Ukraine,
00:28:55.380
where they voted 74% for a candidate without even politics prior to this.
00:29:01.140
So wait, wait, wait, wait. 24% voted for the president.
00:29:04.260
So you're saying that the Joe Biden firing played a huge role in the next election, that it was,
00:29:14.740
that that was the, one of the things that lit that fire?
00:29:20.740
Of course, it was one of the things that lit that fire. And one of the things that people were fed up with,
00:29:25.780
where Ukraine, unfortunately, was bending for our allies, not cooperating with them as partners,
00:29:32.660
but just working as some schoolboy, and our president was running front of them as a schoolboy.
00:29:44.980
Let me go to January 2016. You're working at the Ukrainian embassy in Washington, D.C. at the time, right?
00:29:53.300
Yes. And a woman named Alexandra Chalupa told an official at the DNC that she felt that she was sure
00:30:03.700
there was a Russia connection between Donald Trump and Russia. And that same month, there was a meeting
00:30:10.740
between Obama administration officials and Ukrainian prosecutors. And the idea was they're going to
00:30:17.620
bring in the national anti-corruption bureau. And you're going to meet with the FBI and we're going
00:30:24.340
to teach you how not to be corrupt. And were you present or involved in, in that meeting being set up? And were
00:30:37.700
Yes, I was. I was asked to help organize that meeting also, because it was part of my duties at the
00:30:48.020
embassy. And it was me being involved in the prosecutors' office in Ukraine before the ambassador
00:30:53.380
asked me to be involved in that meeting. But the interesting thing is, it was, I was involved in two
00:31:00.020
meetings out of a week long of meetings with the NABU, the anti-corruption bureau of Ukraine, and fighting
00:31:09.380
the corruption bureau of Ukraine. And then I was blocked from attending India meeting, which was
00:31:14.580
basically a shock for the embassy. And this never happened before.
00:31:18.020
Okay, wait, wait, wait. That's how it actually happened.
00:31:20.020
I didn't, I didn't understand. I didn't, I didn't hear what you said. It was a shock. You were also involved in what?
00:31:25.620
I was, I wasn't, I was in that meeting. I was, I was helped to organize that meeting. But then,
00:31:32.580
after, because they were not only this meeting in the White House, they had numerous meetings
00:31:36.660
within the FBI and DOJ. They're talking about corruption as they stop in Ukraine. But I was
00:31:41.780
blocked, the Ukrainian embassy in Washington was blocked from attending any of those other meetings
00:31:47.860
after the first meeting with the White House. And why do you suppose that was?
00:31:51.780
For us, it was really shocking because usually when a foreign delegation comes,
00:31:57.300
the embassy of the country, which is the representatives of the country, comes with them
00:32:02.260
on every meeting and assists them on every meeting. And they cannot get blocked from attending anything
00:32:07.700
else if it's not only by the will of those attendees. But because they're government officials,
00:32:12.500
we have to be with them all the time. And the U.S. government just told us, and the DOJ and FBI just told us,
00:32:19.060
you're not allowed to attend those meetings. Sorry. That's it. I only attended the White House
00:32:24.260
meeting, which happened in January. Another meeting at the FBI headquarters and everything else,
00:32:29.540
the Ukrainian embassy and me as an official was blocked from attending.
00:32:32.420
What was the conversation in the embassy on why they would do that? It had never been done before.
00:32:40.900
It seems like a slap in the face to the embassy. What was the speculation?
00:32:47.940
The ambassador made phone calls. They just told me, you're not allowed to attend. That's it.
00:32:52.420
No, nor me, nor the ambassador, nobody else. So for us, it was, we just wrote a letter of protest
00:32:59.460
to the State Department right afterwards. And that's it.
00:33:02.020
Okay. So, um, was the director of, I think you call it Nobu, uh, Naboo, uh, was that Sitnik, right?
00:33:20.020
It was Artem Sitnik, the director of Nobu. It was special, uh, uh, corruption prosecutor,
00:33:28.820
Nazarkov Metsky. And it was a deputy assistant prosecutor of Ukraine,
00:33:36.740
who were attending those meetings in Washington and that meeting at the White House in January, 2016.
00:33:44.740
And what was the subject matter on the ones that you did attend?
00:33:50.980
Basically, it was National Security Council of the White House, who were the other side of the
00:33:57.860
representatives from the United States. And it was on the Ukrainian side. And also,
00:34:02.500
it was the attendees from the Department of Justice. It was Mr. Jeff Pohl, who was
00:34:08.260
the Department of Justice and the woman from FBI, who were in those meetings. And they did all the talking.
00:34:14.500
They didn't let, nor Mr. Sitnik, nor Mr. Kovlinsky, nor Mr. Sekorablice talk at all. They basically
00:34:20.900
reported for them to the National Security Council. And when the National Security Council,
00:34:27.060
people asked for any input or any other investigations to be done. Also, the Department of Justice
00:34:34.420
were basically doing the talking. They didn't let the Ukraine side talk at all, which was basically
00:34:39.460
extraordinary. And that's when I heard from the National Security Council request to investigate
00:34:47.860
the party of regions. It was a party where Paul Manafort used to be involved with,
00:34:52.500
he used to consult them. And they asked to investigate any connections of party of regions,
00:34:58.820
former Yanukovych president, with US citizens. They didn't say Manafort, they didn't mention their name,
00:35:08.020
but a couple of weeks afterwards, he told me that they actually gave them the Black
00:35:13.140
Ledger to investigate. That was basically, their Washington visit was to talk about the Black
00:35:19.060
Ledger. And they were there, they did not know that it was the Black Ledger at the time.
00:35:23.380
So it was basically a shock when it came afterwards with all this basically Ukraine involvement in
00:35:29.220
this process. There's one thing that has bothered me, and I'd love to see if you have
00:35:34.180
any information or an opinion on this. The day that Paul Manafort was charged and it was announced
00:35:43.940
that he was in the Black Ledger. Tony Podesta has had a huge firm here in America, a lobbyist group.
00:35:58.820
He spent a lot of time over with the Podesta group. The day that Manafort was arrested,
00:36:08.340
or they said they're coming out. Here's the Black Ledger. The Podesta group closed its doors without
00:36:15.220
any explanation. And it's been my feeling that Podesta was doing the same thing. And he's just
00:36:22.660
kind of been erased because it's very, very odd that somebody with that much power, that much clout,
00:36:30.340
that much money, and that kind of record, just closes in emergency way. It doesn't say,
00:36:38.180
hey, we're going to retire, we're winding things down, just locks the door. Is there anything on
00:36:43.940
Podesta that you've ever heard? The Podesta group?
00:36:49.220
There's a lot of US involvement in Ukraine over the last couple of years. And Podesta was one of them.
00:36:56.260
I don't know if they're retailed operations, but there was also the involvement of a person named
00:37:01.860
Craig Craig, who was Craig Craig Craig Craig. He was the president's attorney. He was the president's
00:37:11.220
personal attorney, President Obama. Yeah, he was involved in Ukraine. His name was coming out in
00:37:17.780
meetings right after the revolution, right after the revolution. And people were talking about him,
00:37:25.540
and nobody knew what he was doing exactly, but he was involved in Ukrainian politics
00:37:30.340
one way or another. And when the black letter came up, his name was also in the air and being
00:37:37.140
talked about that he was also being on a payroll, but eventually his name was never mentioned enough
00:37:44.420
in the media to get a look into this profile. And from what I heard, the court made a decision that
00:37:50.180
was there was nothing illegal from his actions in the United States. That's the latest I heard,
00:37:56.580
which was strange, even though what he was doing here, nobody can answer directly. Was he involved
00:38:03.620
with the State Department of the US Embassy? Yes, he was, from what we know, from the Ukrainian government.
00:38:08.820
And what exactly was his actions here is for the US and Ukrainian authorities also to tell the public,
00:38:15.220
I think. So did the anti-corruption bureau, is it your theory or your witness that,
00:38:23.700
that the Obama administration requested in some way or another, this black ledger information to
00:38:32.420
investigate what was going on with Paul Manafort to confirm a connection of some sort with Donald Trump and Russia?
00:38:47.380
Yes, that was the first stage of, from what I understood with the connection,
00:38:51.700
and to try to go after Paul Manafort was from this January meeting. And after we talked with Mr.
00:38:58.500
Khodnicki, they said there was a lot of pressure from the US Embassy in Kyiv for them to do this.
00:39:05.140
And Mr. Sitnik, I was in contact with him prior for a couple of years, and he used to just brag about
00:39:11.700
how he goes to the US Embassy in Kyiv and reports to them twice a week on what was going on and takes
00:39:18.420
orders from them. And he talks about it in public, and I think there's also reporting right now online,
00:39:22.980
but he used to do this to everybody, just brag about how he's in bed with basically the US
00:39:28.180
embassy in Kyiv. And they're telling him what to do. So that's not a secret here in Ukraine,
00:39:33.460
but nobody's reporting about this in the US, unfortunately.
00:39:38.020
So Alexandra Chalupa, most people have never heard of her. She is described now by the US media just as
00:39:46.420
a soccer mom. But she was working with the American embassy in DC when you were there. Can you tell me
00:39:55.860
Go ahead. Yes, the Ukrainian embassy in the United States. Can you tell me,
00:40:05.940
was she working with the embassy? What was what was her involvement with the embassy?
00:40:16.340
When I first met her was it was end of March 2016. And I didn't hear about her beforehand. I know that
00:40:26.340
there were Ukrainian Americans coming to the embassy often and talking to the ambassador working on
00:40:31.300
different issues. But when I met her was the first time in the end of March 2016. And I was introduced
00:40:38.740
to her by the DCM at the time, in a cafe outside the embassy. And she said, you have to talk to this
00:40:45.300
woman. And Chalupa introduced herself as a DNC operator, DNC worker. She's collecting dirt on Manafort and
00:40:52.180
Trump. They're going after her, but she's almost going to get killed if she does this. But she's still
00:40:57.700
willing to pursue this idea that Russia was involved or Russia's behind Donald Trump. And
00:41:04.020
if I can use my contacts as a former government official in Ukraine to help her in this investigation
00:41:10.740
and help the DNC and take Trump off the elections through a congressional committee hearing,
00:41:18.740
aired by Marcy Kaptur in September 16, and then basically a month right before the election.
00:41:24.580
And afterwards, after this meeting with Chalupa, I started asking questions. I started asking the
00:41:29.300
ambassador, do you know this woman? He says, yes. Charlie, the Ukrainian ambassador in Washington,
00:41:34.180
says, I know Chalupa. You have to work with her. She's a friend of the embassy, and she's doing the
00:41:38.900
work that is going to bring some positive aspects to Ukraine after the election. And that's when my
00:41:45.780
relationship at the embassy started to break with the ambassador. And a couple of months later,
00:41:50.180
I resigned. I left back to Ukraine. OK, so you your testimony here is that the ambassador not only knew
00:41:58.660
who she was, but knew that she worked with the DNC and there was some sort of an exchange of she would
00:42:05.620
help Ukraine afterwards if we would just if you would just help her now.
00:42:12.180
Well, it was not that she's going to help. It's going to the whole process of we're going to help
00:42:18.660
her. OK. Then be helpful for Ukraine after the election. OK. And she was meeting the ambassador
00:42:25.300
quite often during official events at the embassy. They would come up to his office and talk.
00:42:30.740
And when they talked about, I don't know. Right. That's when I started to mention who was
00:42:36.580
Mrs. Alexander Chalupa. And so you believe that the ambassador did know she was on the payroll.
00:42:44.340
She was representing herself as working for the DNC. Of course, that's how she represented herself
00:42:51.300
to me right away. And we had only one meeting. She told me recently the whole story, what she was
00:42:56.500
doing, what she was doing. And she doesn't hide it. Look at her social media. She, she, she.
00:43:02.340
Well, she says she says now that she was just doing this on her own accord. She wasn't working
00:43:09.460
for the DNC. This is something that she was pursuing just as a concerned citizen.
00:43:16.660
Maybe she was, but she introduced to me as a DNC operator. She had a DNC worker. I was introduced to
00:43:22.020
her. I didn't bump her into her industry. I was introduced to her by the DCM at the embassy.
00:43:28.740
And then I have to talk to this woman and give her help. And basically she came to an official
00:43:34.020
meeting with me asking for help to find dirt on presidential candidate at that time, Donald Trump.
00:43:40.980
And his team called on everybody else. Did the U S embassy in Ukraine know about this?
00:43:52.180
I don't know what she told anybody else, how she introduced herself. But when I reported to Charlie
00:43:57.860
that who I met and what the request was, and I explained to her, this was Oksana Chaloup,
00:44:03.780
but he said, you have to work with her. I know who she is. If Oksana, the DCM tells you to work with
00:44:09.380
this woman, you have to work with this woman. That's, that was the answer.
00:44:14.020
Did the, did the U S embassy in Ukraine know about this relationship?
00:44:21.860
That I don't know. I know that after right now, before the elections and right after the elections,
00:44:28.260
I heard things from Washington that people knew that the Ukraine embassy was doing this,
00:44:32.420
not only with Chaloup, but there were other segments, which were, I was not involved in.
00:44:36.820
Okay. That there was cooperation on with basically taking one side in,
00:44:41.620
in the campaign referred to another. Okay. Um, did you,
00:44:46.420
and you voiced this concern to your ambassador, um, in Washington DC and, um,
00:44:59.140
Yeah. Right. Right after the meeting, I went to his office and said,
00:45:02.260
this is disturbing. And, um, what was his reaction to you? You said you're,
00:45:10.180
that's when your relationship started to kind of fall apart. Um,
00:45:19.140
or your, at least your willingness to say, I don't think this is right.
00:45:22.020
His reaction was, I'm giving an order to cooperate with her. You have to cooperate with her. And then
00:45:29.940
when I started to back off, I said, I'm not going to get involved with it. This is, first of all,
00:45:34.340
unethical and illegal, maybe. And, uh, we cannot do this. And I want, I wanted to report back to
00:45:42.660
Evie didn't let me, even though I think official Kyiv and the Ukraine president knew what was going
00:45:47.860
on because Charlie has direct phone access with the president twice a week, President Ukraine twice
00:45:53.140
a week on his schedule. So the president wasn't, Ukraine didn't know what was going on. He was
00:45:58.900
basically taking orders also from Kyiv. So he was doing also a job and he was telling me to do something.
00:46:05.620
That was this whole idea. And when I told him, let's work with the Trump campaign also, because I was
00:46:12.660
overseeing the election process at the embassy, reporting back on how the primaries were going.
00:46:17.700
That was my job to work with the campaigns. And I said, look, we talked to every campaign,
00:46:22.820
Kasich, Bruce, uh, some people from like Oksana Shular, she had a good relationship with the Hillary
00:46:29.060
team. She spoke with Hillary, but let's talk to the Trump campaign and let's coordinate some work
00:46:33.940
with them, like Ukraine, the civil area, other embassy does. And he said, don't talk to Trump campaign.
00:46:39.540
If you do, you're going to get fired. And that's when things got really bad. And I understood that
00:46:45.940
he's not going to basically start blocking me at every other meetings and blocking me from
00:46:50.580
attending any other official meetings at the embassy or outside the embassy.
00:46:55.380
Did you tell anybody else at the time that can verify that, that this was happening? Did you tell
00:47:02.340
anybody else, any friends, any communications with anyone?
00:47:05.780
No, there are some people that I did, I was in contact and I did tell them what was the,
00:47:11.860
what was the process. And, uh, some, there are some friends who I used to work with before the
00:47:17.860
Ukraine government, my former boss. And that's when I, but then I kept quiet and I just understood,
00:47:24.660
look, uh, it's not going to work out. It's not the dream job. I just wanted to, I'm just going to leave.
00:47:30.820
I don't have to be involved in this if I don't want to. And I resigned on my own, came back, worked
00:47:35.620
for another month of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and started after residing, started doing
00:47:40.740
political consulting. And that's when I started talking about this off record and to the presidential
00:47:47.540
administration here in Kyiv, my former boss, the prosecutor, General Yarema, to deliver this
00:47:52.980
message to the president of Ukraine. Look, this is, this thing happened. It's going to cause some
00:47:57.220
problems in the future. You have to do something about it, chief ambassador, maybe do some management
00:48:03.300
there in the embassy, but the president has to get involved and do this before the election costs
00:48:07.780
assents. But I was not hurt when I talked about it privately basically. Okay. But that's when I decided
00:48:15.700
to do the interview with Politico when I was reached out. And Ken Gogo and David Stern, we were forgetting
00:48:22.180
that they did a job investigating this. Ken Gogo is one of our also respected journalists today, and
00:48:29.060
he did an investigation on this. Chalupa herself told that she was involved in it. In that article,
00:48:35.620
in the Politico January 17 article, I had a couple of lines there talking about my work, but she spoke
00:48:43.140
most of the other article talking about what she was involved in. And she confirmed most of it. I
00:48:48.420
don't know why she did it, but she confirmed the story herself from her side.
00:48:51.620
Let me go back to the black man, uh, ledger here. Um, it was released in August of 2016.
00:49:11.460
You've said that it was, it was done, you know, on the instructions of the Obama administration that
00:49:17.540
they gave, uh, Naboo back in January. Um, there was a director, uh, uh, Sitnik and a member of
00:49:26.660
parliament, Les Shanko, I believe. Um, and they, they are on tape and you've said that they said many
00:49:34.980
times that they influenced the election. They were working for the DNC to try to throw it to Hillary.
00:49:42.740
Um, there is a tape that you mentioned and we have played, uh, this was taken to court in Ukraine
00:49:52.020
and it was, uh, they, they were both found guilty, but then there was an appeal and the American press
00:50:00.580
is reporting that it was thrown out on appeal, which to them translates to there wasn't a crime.
00:50:08.180
They didn't commit it, but actually it's a technicality. Can you explain the technicality
00:50:14.500
that they, they got this thing thrown out on? Do you know it?
00:50:20.340
You have to also, I don't know the details of this process on the appeal, but we have the first,
00:50:30.740
the first stage of court, basically when they got the verdict in the court, they got a verdict.
00:50:36.580
They got originally a verdict in the court of law in Ukraine. The appeal itself is in the process
00:50:42.980
of where you have to appeal the first verdict. So basically they already got a verdict on the
00:50:47.060
first stage and the court decided that they were guilty. But the problem is in Ukraine, you cannot,
00:50:53.380
there's no punishment for it. Maybe there's like a fine you're going to pay or they already paid or
00:50:59.540
they're appealing this fine, but basically there's no, they cannot be taken to prison or jail on this
00:51:04.980
account. And this is the main thing. And what there's a lot of also political influence not to push this
00:51:12.900
narrative forward with the former government, the former president Poroshenko where this appeal
00:51:18.180
was in process. And he still has a lot of power in the government and he can influence the court.
00:51:24.180
Because we don't have a jury that sits and decides. We have a court, a judge, one, three judges which
00:51:32.180
decide the fate of this over the appeal and that's it. And they can get a phone call from the top and
00:51:39.620
telling them what to do and what to make a verdict. Unfortunately, this is the country we live in today.
00:51:47.060
All right. So the U.S. ambassador, let's switch to her, Yovanovitch. She was named the new U.S.
00:51:55.300
ambassador of Ukraine in 2016. And I just heard reports this week. She has been testifying
00:52:02.820
here in secret hearings in Washington, D.C. that are never kept. Oh, so secret. And she is painted as
00:52:14.180
a warrior for justice by our media. She said that she was removed from her position because she was
00:52:25.220
trying to stop the corruption in Ukraine that Donald Trump and Rudy Giuliani were a part of.
00:52:34.340
And she dismisses any of the any of the charges that she was not allowing prosecutors visas to come in,
00:52:48.100
that she drew up a do not prosecute list. Tell me who she is and and how you know anything about her, if you do.
00:53:03.780
It was when she became the ambassador. And as I said, it was not only her, but Mr. George Kent,
00:53:10.660
you have to take into consideration. He is now, where are we talking about him? Because now he's
00:53:16.500
assistant deputy secretary of state within the State Department. And he oversees Ukraine today.
00:53:25.380
And he reports to Pompeo today. And he was the puppet, the puppeteer who used to control the embassy.
00:53:32.260
Ivanovic was there, but he was the main man. He used to tell Ivanovic what and who we should listen to.
00:53:40.820
And the U.S. embassy in Kyiv under Ivanovic was basically anybody with conservative views,
00:53:50.580
not only just views they don't support, but in conservative views, they would block from communication.
00:53:56.820
I used to work with Ambassador Piatt, who was before Ivanovic, Ambassador Teft. And we used to
00:54:03.780
coordinate a lot of work together, fighting for the corruption under Yanukovych and doing all the
00:54:08.980
other work. But when Ivanovic came as Ambassador George Kent, all the cooperation with not only me,
00:54:15.380
but other people who had conservative views stopped. Because we were conservative. They only
00:54:20.500
listened to UNTAC people, SORUS people, like Leshchenko, like Sidney, who would basically just come to
00:54:28.180
their knees and listen to what the U.S. embassy would say. Anybody who would object to a decision
00:54:34.180
of the U.S. embassy on any behalf, they would get blocked and not listened to, or get toxified,
00:54:40.420
like they tried to do with me. But what they did is, they did tell, and it was not only on Ivanovic,
00:54:46.020
but on the previous ambassador, and also who to investigate, who to prosecute, they would basically
00:54:51.940
tell them in an orderly fashion, well, like in an order fashion, they would just say, well,
00:54:56.020
you should do this, you should not do this. And it was a norm for the U.S. embassy, unfortunately.
00:55:02.660
Ivanovic could call the president and tell him, you should not touch this government official. You
00:55:08.420
should look into this government official. And the president of Ukraine would have to take her call
00:55:13.220
and do what she would say. Unfortunately, this is the reality which also the mass media doesn't
00:55:18.100
understand what happened in Ukraine. They don't dig in. When I talk to, I'm giving 12 interviews a day
00:55:24.020
to every media. I'm talking to you, I'm talking to the mass media, I spoke to CNN and NBC. NBC didn't
00:55:30.260
even air my interview because they told me your narrative is the opposite from everybody you talk to.
00:55:36.900
I said, well, but who do you talk to? They said, well, we talk to untech people, we talk to
00:55:40.500
nations. I said, of course, you're going to hear only from them. They're going to protect
00:55:45.220
themselves. You're going to hear from me another part of the story. Isn't this journalism? But
00:55:49.060
nobody's doing their job today. That's the problem. That's where we're trying to dig to the truth
00:55:54.100
through your program, through other media sources, and to find out what really happened here in Ukraine.
00:55:59.380
I was sticking to my story for two years, or for three years now, after the political article came out
00:56:04.980
about Chalufa, about the DNC involvement, and other things came out with other reporters,
00:56:10.500
like with John Solomon from the January meeting. So this is, there's a big story here in Ukraine,
00:56:17.140
which we have to all investigate. That's what President Trump is asking. Please investigate,
00:56:21.620
find out what happened in Ukraine. Was the US Embassy involved? Was Biden involved? We want the
00:56:28.340
investigators from Ukraine, and together with the DOJ and FBI, to find out what really happened. And that's
00:56:34.420
what Mr. Giuliani is doing. He's trying to get the pieces together and give it to the investigators
00:56:38.740
to do their job. But then the media and everybody else is trying to destroy this and destroy anybody
00:56:44.820
who goes against this narrative. That's the problem here. So part of the problem is, is that we don't
00:56:50.420
know who the good guys and bad guys are. For instance, General Lusanko, he was the guy that replaced
00:57:01.860
Shokin. Shokin, we're told, is a bad guy. You're saying that, you know, yes and no. But he wasn't
00:57:11.220
fired for corruption. He was fired because he was looking into the wrong things. Lusanko then comes in,
00:57:18.020
and he's a guy that apparently the Obama administration likes. But now they're throwing
00:57:24.100
him under the bus because he's now saying, for instance, the American ambassador tried to
00:57:34.340
strong arm him, tell him who to prosecute, who not to prosecute. Do we, that aligns with your story,
00:57:42.580
but it sounded to me like you don't really like Lusanko. Is he a good guy, bad guy, or just
00:57:48.580
a little of both? Lusanko, when he came to Mr. Giuliani this year with information,
00:57:57.620
and he talked about the U.S. embassy in Ukraine, about the Lusun prosecute, about to prosecute,
00:58:05.140
about Biden, Hunter Biden, Burisma, and everybody else, which was mentioned later on in the media.
00:58:11.540
He came with an area of disdainment power. That's what he tried to do. But he brought real evidence.
00:58:16.420
He brought real documents to Mr. Giuliani to confirm his story. And Mr. Giuliani did talk
00:58:21.940
to him for three days. He basically interrogated him in questioning about what was his story,
00:58:28.740
his background, with all this information. And that's when only Mr. Giuliani took back that we
00:58:33.780
can believe this guy. But today we have to understand that Lusanko backed out of his words,
00:58:38.180
and this is what the media is trying to use against Giuliani and against me and against anybody else,
00:58:43.860
that, oh, look, Lusanko backed out of his statements. No, but he didn't.
00:58:47.140
He backed out, because that's, like, partially he backed out. He said, oh,
00:58:51.780
Hunter maybe was not involved, and maybe he is involved. And he basically, that's his story today,
00:58:57.940
and that's what he's trying to push. But he brought new documents. He brought new evidence
00:59:03.140
saying that it was true. And that's where it was this process.
00:59:06.340
This is really confusing, because the only thing that we have been able to find,
00:59:10.660
because everybody is, everybody's in a circle. The New York Times is quoting the Post and the Post
00:59:15.860
is quoting the Wall Street Journal and the Wall Street Journal's, you know, quoting the Washington
00:59:20.500
Post. We can't find where he actually took back the statements. What we did find is him in an
00:59:29.540
interview saying, the reporter said, so wait a minute, so the ambassador comes in and she gives
00:59:38.420
you this list. And he said, no, she didn't give me a list. I wrote down the names that she gave me.
00:59:46.580
And that's where the media is saying he reversed himself, at least on the list. We haven't found
00:59:52.580
anything else that he has reversed himself on. So what are you saying that he reversed himself on?
01:00:02.580
Here in the Ukrainian media, he tried to back out of the story on Hunter Biden. But as I said,
01:00:11.460
he has a sworn statement to Mr. Giuliani that his evidence is true. Why? He's a politician. Maybe he's
01:00:18.660
a good guy. Maybe he's not. But he's a politician. He tried to use just the same power. But his words
01:00:24.900
are true. And as I said, this is what I'm saying. I don't want people to think I'm sucking up to
01:00:30.980
somebody or not. I don't like him. I know that we have to recheck who he is and what he is. But
01:00:37.060
his words when he came to Mr. Giuliani about Burisma, about Biden, and about what the embassy,
01:00:42.660
the U.S. embassy in Ukraine, was telling him not to prosecute or who to prosecute is true.
01:00:48.500
It is true. And this is what we also have to say to the consideration. But we also have to be
01:00:53.460
careful when he's, when the mass media is trying to say, oh, he's backing out of his words. He's
01:00:59.380
backing out of his statements. This is what I'm trying to say.
01:01:01.940
Okay. Even though if he would ever try to back out of his statements, there's a sworn statement
01:01:08.100
to Mr. Giuliani that he has clear evidence that what he said is true. Okay. So you're,
01:01:14.100
if I understand this right, you're not arguing with me on the, you know, the who to prosecute and who not
01:01:24.980
to prosecute. You're saying that he backed out of the statement of Joe Biden's son, Hunter,
01:01:32.180
that he had done something wrong. Is that right?
01:01:36.100
Yeah, that's what he backed out of the statement a couple of months or weeks ago.
01:01:43.540
He's a politician. Unfortunately, he's a politician.
01:01:47.220
And he tried to stay in power. And I'm just difficult to understand. But if the Trump administration was
01:01:54.740
corrupt enough, they would keep him in power. They would tell Zelensky, don't touch Lutsenko.
01:01:59.300
He's a guy that we have to keep him in power. Let him investigate the Bidens. Let him investigate
01:02:06.260
because he came to us. But they didn't do that. Biden wouldn't do that. Biden wouldn't keep him in
01:02:10.660
power. I mean, he would say, oh, let's keep him because I like him. He's protecting me. But Trump
01:02:15.380
didn't do that. He just mentioned his name, that Zelensky was a good guy during the conversation.
01:02:19.780
Zelensky, but he never asked Zelensky to keep him in power or keep him as the prosecutor or
01:02:25.140
let him stay as the head of a political party. They never did this. And this is what, as an example
01:02:30.740
to the public, why somebody, maybe this side is saying the truth here, because they're not
01:02:36.180
trying to probably prank their own what to do. They're requesting and asking for help.
01:02:41.780
So the evidence that Lutsenko claimed to have around Joe Biden, Shokin, Hunter Biden, he said he had a
01:02:52.660
whole bunch of stuff and he would he wanted to get it to the DOJ. And it actually went to he finally got
01:03:00.180
it through once we had a change in administrations. And that evidence went to America and it went to the
01:03:09.620
southern district of New York and they passed on the information. Do we have where is that
01:03:17.060
information now? Where is that evidence? Do we know? No, I don't know about that.
01:03:23.860
OK, the the new president Zelensky is I mean, he he ran to say it was an unconventional campaign
01:03:36.420
would be like describing Donald Trump as George Washington is Zelensky is it's my understanding.
01:03:44.980
He didn't really even debate anyone. He didn't really talk about policies. Nobody knew what he was
01:03:50.820
going to do. And he comes in. Is he is he going to be strong enough? And is he the kind of guy that you
01:04:00.660
think can help clean this up? Is he going to play it straight or what's your impression?
01:04:09.860
There is some internal there is some internal fighting going on within the Ukrainian politics right now.
01:04:16.020
And when the story with Biden rose up in the in the world in mass media, it was a fact when they were
01:04:24.660
starting to get changes within the internal politics in Ukraine. And that's when people,
01:04:31.380
so much people like Pinchuk Oligar, who was a big donor to the Hillary Foundation, more than 10 million
01:04:37.140
dollars officially, unofficially more than 100 gave. And he started to basically move aside people like
01:04:43.940
Kolomoisky and other Oligars who had some influence over Zelensky and start to put his people
01:04:49.220
in their seats. And when Zelensky appointed the prosecutor general who's acting today, he thought
01:05:02.020
it was his guy. That's what he told President Trump in the July phone call. But today we see that Mr.
01:05:08.820
the prosecutor general of Ukraine, Mr. Ryabashopka, is a totally pro Soros person because he's appointing
01:05:14.500
former Soros people who were affiliated with the Open World Foundation and getting grant money from
01:05:21.460
USAID and the Open World Foundation Renaissance, which is part of Soros Group. And he's reporting them
01:05:29.060
as deputies in the prosecutor's office. So this is right now Zelensky, who had power over the government,
01:05:36.260
is going to fight back. And we're going to see in the next couple of months, hopefully there's going
01:05:41.140
any changes from the prosecutor's office. He wants to investigate this. He said, I want our system
01:05:47.060
to investigate this and to turn this page over. And we want to forget about the story. We don't
01:05:51.140
want to be mentioned in the media in this way ever again. That's why I want the prosecutor to take
01:05:56.580
over this investigation. But unfortunately, the prosecutor today cannot be trusted and Zelensky will
01:06:02.420
have to change him in the next couple of months. So is this is this who the president was referring to
01:06:08.260
and he said, we think you still have the same kind of people around you in that phone call?
01:06:12.980
Not only not only this, but there was also people like Chu, Leshchenko, and people who were like
01:06:22.500
the other shop, also the prosecutor general. But the main guy was probably the truth he was talking about.
01:06:28.020
That's the old guard who was involved with Hillary and helped give him for money to the Open World
01:06:33.300
Foundation. What was the talk? What was the talk about when the president started talking about the
01:06:41.940
servers, the DNC servers and the what was it? Crossroads? I think it was a crowd strike. What
01:06:52.180
was that all about? Do you know? I think I think that's what they wanted to find out.
01:06:59.540
Are these servers in Ukraine, which the DNC put them here? The problem, the issue is here,
01:07:06.820
people have to understand Ukraine is maybe some foreign country to most Americans.
01:07:12.260
But for the Democratic Party and for Soros, it's a big hub, which they use for more than 20 years
01:07:19.460
to invest in millions and millions of dollars into this country, into their operatives who work on the
01:07:25.300
ground here and giving them grant money. We're basically loyal to them. And basically they
01:07:29.780
don't trust Ukraine. It's kind of like a black, it's kind of like a black ops for the DNC and Soros.
01:07:38.020
Yeah. Okay. Basically what the Democratic Party and the liberals are going against Trump
01:07:43.060
with Russia, they did the same thing in Ukraine. So now,
01:07:46.420
they're using this narrative. Right. And that's it. Right. Okay. So now let me,
01:07:52.980
let me go to Rudy Giuliani, who you have spoken to several times. Rudy Giuliani is now,
01:08:01.380
they're now saying that there are these two operatives, actually three of them, two of them
01:08:07.940
been arrested. Um, and they wanted in on some corrupt, uh, oil, uh, business that they weren't
01:08:16.820
supposed to be running. And they needed to get some people out of the way. One of them was the
01:08:21.460
ambassador. And one of them was, I think, I can't remember one of the other prosecutors.
01:08:27.700
Uh, and so they needed to get these people fired. They paid him and Rudy Giuliani has admitted to
01:08:32.260
taking $500,000 from them. They made an illegal campaign contribution, but the narrative is that
01:08:39.540
Rudy Giuliani is only doing these things and only fired these ambassadors because he was trying to
01:08:45.460
help them make money and basically do what the Democrats are accusing Hunter Biden, uh, or what
01:08:53.380
the Republicans are accusing Hunter Biden of doing that. This is just all about corruption and money for
01:09:00.580
Rudy Giuliani. From what I know, I'm talking to Mr. Giuliani and I still talk to him today over the phone
01:09:10.020
and we call, call each other once a week. And when I come to the U.S., I see him, uh, every time. So
01:09:16.980
basically what we're talking about here is a possibility of corruption from what the media, mass media is
01:09:24.100
trying to implement. But when I talked to Mr. Giuliani, he was constantly politically involved and he told me,
01:09:30.580
look, I'm doing this for the president of the United States. I cannot lobby because I know the president.
01:09:38.660
I am just doing this work as his attorney and I cannot do any other business other than this.
01:09:45.060
That's why I trusted him. So any, all these stories that are in the media today, they have to be
01:09:49.780
investigated and proven in court. I cannot comment on them. I know that Parnas, Truman and all these other
01:09:56.020
guys, they were running around, they were doing some job, but what they were doing and how they
01:10:03.220
were doing it. I don't know because I did not contact them. I only was caught in contact with
01:10:07.460
Giuliani directly. Okay. Um, but your view of Rudy Giuliani at this point is that he is, uh, you know,
01:10:16.340
um, for lack of a better term, a boy scout, just trying to do right by Ukraine and the president
01:10:23.060
and get to the bottom of how this corruption was working.
01:10:28.500
Yes. When we meet, he has this, this whole huge couple of books, which he writes out everything
01:10:34.420
is staffed with no less. He knows more about Ukraine than a lot of Ukrainians probably.
01:10:39.540
He tells him a name. He knows who's the guy is connected to who, which is his connection circle,
01:10:44.580
where he gets the money from money. He has that from evidence documents that people give to him.
01:10:50.020
Why people go to Mr. Giuliani? We have to understand it today. It's because the official channels,
01:10:55.140
like Masul Senko talked about giving this information to the DOJ, these documents,
01:11:00.260
nobody knows where they are right now. And nobody, everybody was blocked beforehand. And when people
01:11:04.900
found out Giuliani and Mr. Giuliani was doing this work, everybody came to him. That's why he came to him.
01:11:09.140
I want to tell him, like, this is what I have. I want to give this, provide this to the U.S.
01:11:13.700
authorities. I want to give this to you for you to also know. He wrote it down. He took it into the
01:11:18.820
fact. And this is why everybody came to Giuliani at this basically moment this spring. It wasn't some
01:11:24.420
coup or it wasn't some conspiracy. It was just the fact that people found out that there was a channel
01:11:28.740
to go to. People just wanted to go to this channel. How does this story end?
01:11:32.740
I mean, you have two titanic forces. I mean, they're just they could and they're both intent on sinking the other.
01:11:43.940
They each think they're the iceberg, not the Titanic. Both sides are coming at each other.
01:11:50.660
Um, the media has almost total control of this story. Thank God that there are a few people
01:11:59.300
speaking out. But when you're looking at, you know, shows like mine as an investigative arm,
01:12:05.860
that's pretty frightening to think that that is the state of the media right now. I don't see the media
01:12:12.340
waking up to your version or my version of the story. How does this end?
01:12:18.900
I hope it's gonna be a good finish, not an end, but a good finish. And we have to investigate.
01:12:28.980
That's this is the only outcome. If we don't, there's going to be a problem, which this issue is
01:12:34.100
going to be up in the air for years, months and years to come. This election, then the Hunter Biden
01:12:40.420
will want to go for election. This is going to come up and or something like this is going to
01:12:44.980
always be in the media. And we have to find out what is going on. What is the truth? Who saw the
01:12:49.780
truth? There's the media, is the Democratic Party, is the Republican Party, is Trump, Zelensky, Biden.
01:12:56.740
This is for not for us to decide. We're just experts here. You're journalists. I'm an expert. I am a
01:13:03.300
witness in all the situation. I want to give this to somebody who's going to investigate a proper
01:13:08.740
professional and give it to court. And then we can decide, this is what the rule of law, this is
01:13:14.980
what democracy is about. Not for us to sit down and point fingers and say, this guy is innocent,
01:13:20.900
this guy is guilty. This is how it's going to finish. Only with the proper investigation. And
01:13:26.500
without the outline of this investigation from Ukraine and from the United States parallel.
01:13:31.540
And when it has to be public, when I'm going to end this investigation, it has to be public.
01:13:37.780
And for people to decide for themselves, who is right? Who is wrong in this? And if needed,
01:13:43.860
somebody will have to go to jail. Andrei Teloshenko, I have a feeling we'll talk again. Thank you so much.
01:13:58.260
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