The Glenn Beck Program - Ep 63 ｜ Tales from 20 Years of Being Glenn’s 'Work Wife' ｜ Stu Burguiere ｜ The Glenn Beck Podcast

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00:02:00.500 Welcome to the podcast. Really excited about today's guest.

00:02:25.860 This is a guy who everybody knows. Humble beginnings. As a young boy, he lived through devastating hardship.

00:02:33.320 His father would beat him. Years later, he would say, every time I got hit, every time someone said, you can't do this.

00:02:39.740 I said, this is not going to be for much longer because I'm going to move out of here.

00:02:44.460 I'm going to be rich. I'm going to be somebody. And he is.

00:02:47.880 His father fought in the Battle of Stalingrad as a member of the Nazi Party.

00:02:53.480 In fact, that would trouble my guest deeply.

00:02:55.880 Growing up, he lived in the shadow of that and his brother, who was his father's favorite,

00:03:00.940 who tragically died in a car accident while under the influence. Died instantly.

00:03:05.680 These are the experiences that would shape him and lead him down a path of tremendous accomplishments and honors,

00:03:12.420 the first of which was his career as a professional bodybuilder.

00:03:16.200 Correction. He was the bodybuilder. At 20 years old, he won the title of Mr. Universe.

00:03:23.180 He then went on to win Mr. Olympia seven times.

00:03:27.100 Now, that is astonishing accomplishment in and of itself.

00:03:30.260 But my guest today, that was only the beginning of his career.

00:03:34.920 He followed his dreams, became a Hollywood actor, became a star, an icon, starring in such blockbusters as Terminator, Predator, Total Recall,

00:03:43.620 even eked out a career in comedy movies, Kindergarten Cop, True Lies, and he literally played Conan the Barbarian.

00:03:51.800 Alongside with Bruce Willis, Demi Moore, Sylvester Stallone, he founded Planet Hollywood,

00:03:57.300 to which this day, to this day, the locations at the Forum in Las Vegas, as well as Times Square,

00:04:03.460 and both Disney World and Disneyland, Paris, are some of the most popular spots.

00:04:07.520 Then, he took a little break from acting, followed the path of Ronald Reagan, he became the governor of California.

00:04:12.920 Do I need to go on? 0.95

00:04:14.140 This is, well, actually not my guest today, but because my guest today is normally the person that writes all that crap I just said,

00:04:22.080 I just ripped that off from a website of Arnold Schwarzenegger because I didn't have a writer.

00:04:27.020 Because the guy that I do have has been my dear friend and co-host and all-around amazing guy who's just gotten his own show.

00:04:36.620 My head writer, executive producer, Steve Bregeer, otherwise known as Stu.

00:04:56.380 So...

00:04:57.020 Mr. Stu Bregeer, which is not even your real name.

00:05:01.960 It is not.

00:05:02.400 We'll get into that in a minute.

00:05:04.100 I'm looking at your resume here.

00:05:07.540 You worked in a promotions department in 1997 for a radio station.

00:05:13.140 What'd you do there?

00:05:14.680 Largely blew up balloons.

00:05:15.920 Blew up balloons.

00:05:17.280 Then, you were promoted to an intern.

00:05:20.300 So, my first job was below the internship.

00:05:22.220 Below the internship, yes.

00:05:23.860 Then, you moved on as a producer for three different talk shows, all hosted by the same guy.

00:05:32.320 Mm-hmm.

00:05:32.980 Mm-hmm.

00:05:33.400 Then, you did a show in 1999, Finny and Stu.

00:05:39.040 Mm-hmm.

00:05:39.380 Mm-hmm.

00:05:40.280 That was over by 2000.

00:05:43.420 Yeah.

00:05:43.820 He tried to get me out of there as fast as possible.

00:05:45.480 Right.

00:05:45.760 Then, you went to the Glenn Beck program, where you were the co-host, EP, executive producer.

00:05:54.640 You've done the fourth hour.

00:05:56.760 Mm-hmm.

00:05:56.940 Uh, you, uh, then was the host in the EP of, uh, Pat and Stu.

00:06:02.980 Mm-hmm.

00:06:03.440 Then, The Wonderful World of Stu.

00:06:05.400 And now, Stu Does America.

00:06:08.480 Yes.

00:06:09.260 As I'm looking at your resume, I realize you're wildly underqualified for any job.

00:06:17.000 Yes.

00:06:17.440 Mm-hmm.

00:06:17.620 And it doesn't seem you can hold a job.

00:06:20.640 I can't hold a job, and I can never work outside of this building.

00:06:24.480 Uh, like, I...

00:06:25.540 I get that impression.

00:06:26.580 Yes.

00:06:27.040 Yes.

00:06:27.320 No, that's fair.

00:06:28.260 Mm-hmm.

00:06:28.560 Um, now, I was a relatively decent server at Chili's for a time.

00:06:33.020 I scheduled some furniture deliveries.

00:06:35.180 Right.

00:06:35.480 Did some spot welding assistant work.

00:06:37.560 Um, but other than that, I really have no other qualifications in life.

00:06:40.560 How old were you when we met?

00:06:43.620 I was, let's see, 20?

00:06:46.880 20 years old.

00:06:47.840 Yeah.

00:06:48.500 And, um...

00:06:50.640 What was your impression of me?

00:06:53.020 Because you got to me at the end of my radio career, or my, you know, top 40 radio career,

00:07:00.200 where I wasn't...

00:07:04.100 I did not care about anything.

00:07:08.160 No, you did not.

00:07:09.340 Right.

00:07:09.540 Um, it's interesting because, you know, you as a national radio personality...

00:07:14.780 Mm-hmm.

00:07:15.020 Um, because you had a really successful run at one point in your career.

00:07:18.460 Mm-hmm.

00:07:18.960 Um, but I only knew you...

00:07:20.760 I mean, I grew up in Connecticut, so I knew you from your morning show at KC 101, which

00:07:25.040 is, you know, music station, the big station in my hometown, basically.

00:07:28.580 Mm-hmm.

00:07:28.760 And I knew, uh, you know, Glenn and Pat in the morning.

00:07:31.040 Mm-hmm.

00:07:31.260 It was the big show.

00:07:32.840 Um, I didn't know that, I mean, later on after Pat left, um, you know, while the show

00:07:38.620 was, I thought, still very funny, you did not care all that much.

00:07:41.820 Uh, and this was like, this was, and this is an important lesson, I think, for people

00:07:46.640 coming up, not only in broadcasting, but any industry, is find someone who's very talented,

00:07:52.460 but at the very valley of their career, like the worst possible time, um, because those

00:07:59.020 people usually have good lessons, are talented, um, but also you can kind of glom onto them

00:08:04.520 when they're at their lowest, and then you can convince them you were part of their success

00:08:08.620 later on.

00:08:09.320 So did you, I mean, because my recollection is, we first really met at a car dealership.

00:08:18.520 That's true.

00:08:18.960 I was, I was working in the promotions department.

00:08:21.020 You were blowing up balloons.

00:08:21.800 I blew up the balloons for a gig you did at a Toyota dealership.

00:08:24.980 Um, the attendance of that Toyota dealership, uh, gig was exactly zero.

00:08:28.900 Zero.

00:08:29.440 Uh, no one came.

00:08:30.260 No one.

00:08:30.700 Uh, no one.

00:08:31.240 So it was...

00:08:31.520 It was like three hours long.

00:08:32.640 Oh yeah.

00:08:32.980 And think of how awkward that is.

00:08:34.300 Yeah.

00:08:34.520 It's three hours.

00:08:35.420 Not a single...

00:08:36.400 I think we might've even had hot dogs we were giving away.

00:08:39.860 I think we were.

00:08:40.200 Yeah.

00:08:40.580 Not a sale.

00:08:40.980 I had to lay out a prize table.

00:08:42.540 Yeah.

00:08:43.280 Stickers, CDs, like all t-shirts.

00:08:46.360 No one came to collect them.

00:08:48.460 I don't think in my career, I don't think it had ever happened where we net, we didn't

00:08:53.840 get one person.

00:08:55.600 Yes.

00:08:56.020 Except for that time.

00:08:57.640 And I don't know what that says about me.

00:08:58.920 Probably something bad.

00:08:59.360 Well, I don't know if I was promoting and meet Stu.

00:09:01.820 No, definitely not.

00:09:02.600 You know, meet Stu the promotions monkey.

00:09:04.640 No.

00:09:04.980 I mean...

00:09:05.320 That was not part of the...

00:09:06.400 Right, right, right.

00:09:07.660 But you know, you were...

00:09:08.600 It was a...

00:09:09.320 It was, if I remember right, a rainy afternoon on the weekend.

00:09:11.820 I remember.

00:09:12.260 And it's like, who's going to come out?

00:09:13.520 And you know, it just wasn't one of those well-attended gigs.

00:09:16.620 So we were...

00:09:18.240 You know, when you're really bored, you'll show interest in people.

00:09:22.180 And you were incredibly bored.

00:09:24.260 And it's also awkward, right?

00:09:25.620 Like, this dealership is paying you a lot of money to do these ads.

00:09:30.280 And your ads were very successful.

00:09:31.540 But this particular appearance was not good.

00:09:34.000 It was not.

00:09:34.640 Not good.

00:09:35.180 Not good.

00:09:35.400 So, you know, it's awkward.

00:09:37.280 We're sitting around talking about radio.

00:09:39.860 And you kind of did the thing where you're like, well, what do you want to do?

00:09:42.240 Like, where do you see yourself?

00:09:43.300 What is this here for you?

00:09:44.320 Now, this is not something I don't think you were truly interested in at this point.

00:09:47.360 It was more of a...

00:09:47.860 Actually, I think it wasn't at the beginning.

00:09:50.340 Yeah.

00:09:50.920 But a few sentences into your answer, I was, because I could tell you were smart.

00:09:56.200 Well, I mean, not a lot of 20-year-olds, particularly at this moment, wanted to do talk radio.

00:10:02.800 And I did.

00:10:03.560 I loved talk radio since I was a kid.

00:10:05.160 I mean, it started with really sports radio.

00:10:07.320 And I listened to all sorts of New York sports radio.

00:10:10.800 And then later on, listened to WIOD in Miami, which is like...

00:10:15.600 Bill Hendry.

00:10:15.860 Bill Hendry and Neil Rogers.

00:10:17.980 It was a legendary radio station.

00:10:19.540 And I kind of grew to really loving, you know, talking about issues, but in a way that was

00:10:24.920 funny and entertaining.

00:10:26.440 And, you know, my belief was...

00:10:28.580 And Imus as well.

00:10:29.340 I would say Imus was definitely part of this, because he was on the station I listened to

00:10:32.260 all the time.

00:10:32.940 And they were able to make those, you know, boring healthcare policy conversations interesting,

00:10:39.940 right?

00:10:40.180 You actually wanted to listen to them.

00:10:41.440 It was funny.

00:10:42.020 And that was something I thought was totally missing, particularly from the conservative

00:10:47.520 side.

00:10:48.140 You know, I mean, there just wasn't a lot of it.

00:10:50.280 And you, you know, I had no idea, had any interest in this at all.

00:10:55.400 You know, we're thinking in your head, you know, this is time for me to get out of the

00:10:59.120 Britney Spears intro world.

00:11:00.840 And get some other super, super classic from her is legitimately how you used to say it

00:11:06.740 on the air and get into something like that.

00:11:09.140 And, you know, you already had that at the entertainment part of it, which you were kind

00:11:12.260 of well known for, but you hadn't really gone down those roads.

00:11:14.900 And, you know, usually when interns come to a station like Casey one on one, what they

00:11:20.200 want is either to get on the air and talk up music or just get a bunch of free concert

00:11:24.240 tickets and, you know, uh, you know, you know, hook up with radio groupies, uh, not really

00:11:29.700 my interest level and no one would ever, you know, be interested in me for those reasons.

00:11:33.960 So, I mean, we kind of had a, we were both kind of on that same direction.

00:11:38.520 So I don't think I've ever asked you this when you left where, because I was literally

00:11:44.380 on the air going, Oh, there's another super, super classic from her.

00:11:47.780 Yeah.

00:11:48.200 And I didn't care about the music.

00:11:50.380 I didn't, I just did whatever I want.

00:11:52.720 And I think at that time, because I had just sobered up, you never knew me drinking.

00:11:58.680 No.

00:11:59.340 I just sobered up.

00:12:00.860 And, uh, and I think probably most people in the building thought I might be insane

00:12:08.020 or just like, just didn't care so much.

00:12:13.460 I would just, just blow myself up.

00:12:16.660 Uh, yeah.

00:12:17.740 I mean, I think that it's not, I mean, I have no.

00:12:20.360 I think people saw you, saw you as a, um, around the building, I would say people saw

00:12:26.880 you as a, a big personality.

00:12:29.540 Um, but also a guy who was not always easy to get along with.

00:12:35.200 Um, because you had, you wanted to do things a certain way.

00:12:38.360 You were used to a big market.

00:12:40.220 We were in a smaller market.

00:12:41.460 You were used to these, like, you know, the things to be done right in this big way.

00:12:45.340 And like, you know, at that time, like we're in an era of consolidation where people are

00:12:49.220 losing jobs and departments are shrinking.

00:12:51.540 And the fact that I even got balloons.

00:12:53.460 I mean, anyone working in radio today, you like, you had balloons.

00:12:56.640 Oh my God.

00:12:57.800 Like that would be huge.

00:12:59.180 Um, running the station at that time.

00:13:00.900 No, you had run the station mostly into the ground for, uh, for many years.

00:13:04.640 Although when you ran the station, I loved it.

00:13:06.520 Um, it was, you turned it, you basically turned the big pop station in town into an alternative

00:13:10.300 music station for like a year.

00:13:12.040 I was one of the only pop people that played Pearl Jam and Stone Temple Pilots and all

00:13:17.720 that stuff.

00:13:18.120 Yeah.

00:13:18.420 And it was, it was a cool, you know, I was never a big pop guy.

00:13:20.960 It was a cool station though, when you were running it.

00:13:22.580 Although we still played Britney Spears, just a little less.

00:13:25.840 Yeah.

00:13:26.260 Maybe, yeah, maybe a lot less.

00:13:27.700 Um, uh, so, you know, like there was always that thing.

00:13:30.560 I think, you know, I, it was weird for me though, coming into it because, because you

00:13:34.480 had been there for a long time and, you know, for people who don't know, you had this

00:13:37.680 big, you know, morning show career.

00:13:39.140 You went, you went to Connecticut in like the middle of a big recession, kind of settled

00:13:43.100 down here or there in Connecticut.

00:13:45.740 And, um, we're at a stage in your career where you're kind of done with it.

00:13:49.880 Um, where I think you had like, you know, there's a lot of stuff that had gone on over

00:13:54.200 the years that I wasn't there for.

00:13:55.480 And you were always very nice to me.

00:13:56.860 I mean, you know, I like to make fun of you and all the time.

00:13:59.940 No, you didn't at that point.

00:14:01.220 At that point I didn't.

00:14:01.860 You didn't even say, cause your real name is not Stu.

00:14:04.920 No.

00:14:05.400 Your wife calls you Stu.

00:14:07.440 Yes.

00:14:07.780 Pretty much everybody in my life now without, with the exception of like my mom, my mom.

00:14:11.220 Yeah.

00:14:11.400 Your mom does not.

00:14:12.280 She gets kind of upset.

00:14:14.280 A little.

00:14:14.920 Yeah.

00:14:15.140 I mean, a little upset.

00:14:16.000 I mean, you know, you know, she didn't name me.

00:14:18.360 Yeah.

00:14:18.700 And also my dad's name was Steve, which is my name.

00:14:21.880 Um, so, you know, I, I do.

00:14:23.780 Would have been nice.

00:14:24.600 It would have been nice.

00:14:25.180 It was a nice piece of tribute.

00:14:26.620 So you stole it.

00:14:27.340 I know.

00:14:27.840 I didn't steal it.

00:14:29.860 Um, the way I remember it is different the way you remember it.

00:14:34.220 So you tell me how it actually happened.

00:14:37.460 Well, uh, I was working in promotions, hanging some balloons.

00:14:40.780 I was at a bar gig, um, in a new Haven Connecticut.

00:14:44.340 Yeah.

00:14:44.600 And you and Vinnie Penn, who's a great guy and he's on one of our affiliates now.

00:14:48.820 He, um, you guys went to, I believe it was a Bon Jovi concert and he was a huge Bon Jovi

00:14:53.400 fan.

00:14:53.560 I don't know if he still is, but like massive, like, you know, the biggest there is.

00:14:57.660 Yeah.

00:14:57.820 And he went to just found a picture of me at that with the long hair.

00:15:02.140 Really?

00:15:02.640 I have long hair.

00:15:03.460 Just.

00:15:04.220 Yeah.

00:15:04.500 It's.

00:15:04.780 I do remember me and I do remember the look.

00:15:06.840 I don't know if I remember the exact picture, but the look is seared into my brain, unfortunately.

00:15:10.420 Um, but, uh, you had gone there and you were not drinking, uh, but he was, he did enough

00:15:16.400 for both of you.

00:15:17.100 Yeah.

00:15:17.460 Um, and, uh, he kind of showed up at the, uh, bar gig after this kind of meet and greet

00:15:22.460 with Bon Jovi where he was really excited and everything else.

00:15:25.320 So he comes and meets me.

00:15:26.540 It's like one of my first days on the job.

00:15:28.100 And he says, you know, he's relatively friendly and he comes over and say, Hey, what's your name?

00:15:32.000 And I say, Steve.

00:15:32.800 And, and then he, you know, we have a short conversation.

00:15:35.620 He moves away later on in the night.

00:15:37.280 We kind of realized what he heard was not Steve, but he just sort of assumed the rest

00:15:43.400 of the name, which is not something you do as a human being in conversation, but thought

00:15:47.280 he heard Stu.

00:15:48.440 And so he just kind of filled in Stu, called me Stu once or twice.

00:15:52.440 I corrected him.

00:15:53.660 He had a laugh.

00:15:54.260 And then he just kept calling me Stu because he thought it was funny.

00:15:56.420 This is, you know, this is the world, right?

00:15:58.160 Yeah.

00:15:58.560 Uh, that we're living in.

00:15:59.220 We're mourning radio.

00:16:00.180 Well, you on the other hand are Mr. Oblivious.

00:16:03.100 Like at this point, that was my, why, and why is that not my nickname anymore?

00:16:07.720 That was my nickname at the time.

00:16:09.640 Yeah.

00:16:09.880 Oblivio.

00:16:11.560 I was like oblivio.

00:16:14.760 And my superpower was to be oblivious to everything, everything, all social cues, um, all personal

00:16:20.260 things from, and that's kind of where you were at that point.

00:16:23.540 I think that was just a factor of you not caring.

00:16:25.580 Like over time, this changed in a big way where you started to care so much, it was

00:16:30.400 annoying.

00:16:31.200 Um, but back then it was, you just, you know, you, you, you, you heard Stu and I think you

00:16:35.820 just filled, you never thought really to follow up on it.

00:16:39.200 Well, if somebody is introduced to Stu and somebody is calling them Stu, you're not going

00:16:42.900 to, and you're not correcting me for months.

00:16:47.160 For months.

00:16:48.000 Yes.

00:16:48.560 Months.

00:16:49.120 I'm calling you Stu for months.

00:16:53.040 To put it in perspective.

00:16:54.260 Okay.

00:16:55.040 You're the big morning show host in, in town, in my hometown.

00:16:58.340 I grew up listening to you.

00:16:59.560 Did it ever become uncomfortable to where you were like, I'm now trapped?

00:17:06.000 Well, there came a point in which, you know, you try to just kind of brush it off and you

00:17:12.060 laugh it off.

00:17:12.620 And I can tell like Vinny is joking about it still.

00:17:16.260 He knows what my name is.

00:17:17.340 Right.

00:17:17.540 So I kind of, at times think maybe you're also just in on the joke and are just joking

00:17:21.840 about it and it's part of the show.

00:17:23.120 And honestly, like when you're a 20 year old trying to get into radio, like you'll

00:17:27.100 let them light you on fire to get on the air.

00:17:29.160 Right. 0.98

00:17:29.340 They're going to say your name.

00:17:30.480 Like they're going to, you know, whatever. 0.99

00:17:31.580 They're going to shoot beanbags into your chest. 1.00

00:17:33.460 Fine. 0.99

00:17:33.840 Whatever.

00:17:34.100 And so I can't, you just go along with it.

00:17:36.480 Right.

00:17:36.740 Right.

00:17:36.860 To kind of, to move up the ladder or at least have some.

00:17:40.280 And did we ever shoot beanbags at you?

00:17:43.020 I mean, I've known, I've.

00:17:44.480 No, but I mean, I don't want to put any ideas.

00:17:46.740 I don't want to put any ideas.

00:17:47.080 I don't want to put any ideas.

00:17:47.460 Yeah.

00:17:48.020 To nudist colonies.

00:17:49.500 I didn't, I put you on a billboard to.

00:17:52.240 No, I never was on a billboard.

00:17:53.980 Never on a billboard.

00:17:54.620 No, no.

00:17:55.120 Never taped you to a billboard, to a side of a van.

00:17:58.720 That wasn't you.

00:17:59.540 That wasn't me.

00:18:00.320 Okay.

00:18:00.580 There's someone who.

00:18:01.900 There's somebody right now.

00:18:03.120 Some family is suffering.

00:18:04.000 It was me.

00:18:04.860 It was me.

00:18:06.300 But yeah, no, I mean, like you had just not, you just weren't into it.

00:18:10.360 It was one time on the air when you talk about getting trapped.

00:18:12.580 It was when we were on the air together.

00:18:15.540 And you said you, you made one of your hilarious jokes at the time.

00:18:18.680 And to give you a sense of how engaged that you were, I believe someone called me Stu.

00:18:24.720 And you said, what kind of name is Stu?

00:18:26.640 What did your mom come home and have Stu and decide to just name you after the meal? 1.00

00:18:30.800 I don't remember that.

00:18:31.660 That's not a joke.

00:18:32.500 And it was like, that's not something like that, but not that joke.

00:18:35.440 It was pretty much that joke.

00:18:36.740 No, it was not that joke.

00:18:37.680 And I was like, you do know my name isn't Stu, right?

00:18:39.880 Like, cause you made it in a way of like, he really thinks this is a good observation.

00:18:43.220 Like there's a really funny story with how I became named Stu.

00:18:46.500 And it's like, well, I'm not named Stu.

00:18:48.080 You do know that.

00:18:48.940 Right.

00:18:49.880 And of course you didn't.

00:18:51.460 And you didn't say it that way.

00:18:53.040 You did not say you do know that because you hadn't said it to me that I was calling you

00:18:59.140 you're the wrong name for, I believe, four to six months.

00:19:04.200 You were Stu.

00:19:05.880 Everyone still in your life calls you Stu.

00:19:09.120 And thank you for that, by the way.

00:19:09.960 You're welcome.

00:19:10.340 Because really, you're the main problem there.

00:19:11.900 It's not my fault.

00:19:12.500 It's your fault.

00:19:13.520 No, it's not.

00:19:13.980 It is your fault.

00:19:14.480 It's not my name.

00:19:15.600 You should have corrected me.

00:19:16.380 You disgraced the memory of my father.

00:19:18.660 Really?

00:19:19.180 Yes.

00:19:19.520 Is that where you're going?

00:19:20.180 That's where I'm going.

00:19:20.820 Okay.

00:19:21.140 Uh, so, so then Steve, as if that's your real name, uh, when you, what iteration of

00:19:34.360 a talk show were you involved in?

00:19:37.280 Were you there at the beginning when I was?

00:19:39.200 Yeah.

00:19:39.440 Cause at the very beginning, I, um, I, I always wanted to do talk.

00:19:42.660 Um, and you talked about doing it and you had like your role at the station.

00:19:48.160 You had still had a lot of power.

00:19:50.080 I would say at the station, you were able to do things.

00:19:52.160 Um, and so you wanted to go and do a talk show and they were like, thrilled.

00:19:56.080 Here's the big morning guy.

00:19:56.960 And you could have come over to WELI, which is the sister station and do a talk show.

00:20:00.540 So you started out, we started out with the, the Glenn Beck program.

00:20:03.900 I think it was called them, just your name.

00:20:05.620 Um, which was somewhat similar to what we wound up doing.

00:20:08.780 Like that one was really your personality around news stories.

00:20:12.380 Um, and you're known now kind of as a guy who has to change the set every two to three

00:20:18.700 weeks, um, because you're bored of it.

00:20:20.720 Back then it was changing the entire format of the show every two to three weeks cause you

00:20:24.440 were bored of it.

00:20:25.040 So we did that show for a little while.

00:20:27.480 Then we went on to, um, something called the impeachment of character.

00:20:31.140 That wasn't a show change.

00:20:32.780 That was, that was a show change.

00:20:34.500 No, it was not a show.

00:20:35.740 It was a show change.

00:20:36.820 No, it was, it was the Glenn Beck program and it was the impeachment of character cause

00:20:41.660 I was doing dramatic readings of the testimony.

00:20:46.160 Yes.

00:20:46.500 Which was hilarious.

00:20:47.680 Hilarious.

00:20:48.200 Probably should have been a segment on a show.

00:20:50.000 However, it was a separate show.

00:20:51.480 It was a completely different iteration.

00:20:52.960 Same time, same station.

00:20:54.320 It was shorter though.

00:20:55.100 I believe it was like the first one was like a couple hours and it was like an hour.

00:20:58.640 You were changing the stuff up all the time.

00:20:59.980 We, we, I think it was two hours.

00:21:01.760 Then it was like 90 minutes.

00:21:03.440 And then the last show was like 45.

00:21:06.000 Right.

00:21:06.260 And that was called the journey.

00:21:07.980 Yeah.

00:21:08.300 If you remember the journey, which was the softer side of Glenn Beck, the whole show

00:21:12.000 was sort of inspirational stories from Glenn Beck.

00:21:15.000 Um, and I, you know, it was a, which one was your favorite?

00:21:18.640 Well, what we wound up doing is taking all of those and kind of jamming into one thing

00:21:21.620 and be like, Hey, put us national.

00:21:23.060 Uh, and that wound up actually working because that's, I think one of the things that, that

00:21:26.300 has been good about the show over the years and different from other shows.

00:21:29.980 And other hosts where you kind of do a little bit of everything.

00:21:32.220 So it was 19 when 97, 98, 98, when we first started together, first started.

00:21:37.360 And do you remember what I said to you and, and what you said back to me when we went into

00:21:43.580 our first break, 20 minutes into talk radio for the very first time?

00:21:47.940 I do remember this.

00:21:49.500 Um, and you said, uh, that we, you got out and you were very excited about the first

00:21:55.900 break, which was very good.

00:21:56.840 And I was happy.

00:21:57.640 We just got through it.

00:21:58.340 Like we didn't know what the heck we were doing basically.

00:22:00.240 And you said, we're going to replace Dr. Laura.

00:22:03.440 Now, Dr. Laura at the time is the number two, probably biggest syndicated host, uh, in

00:22:08.580 America just behind rush.

00:22:10.020 And we've done about 12 minutes, 12 minutes and 12 minutes.

00:22:13.440 It was a good 12.

00:22:13.940 It was a good 12 minutes.

00:22:15.060 And if you project that, it's like Al Gore.

00:22:16.660 If you project the temperature rise forever, it was a hockey stick.

00:22:19.600 It was a hockey stick.

00:22:20.220 It was a hockey stick.

00:22:20.980 It was like nothing.

00:22:21.900 And then straight up for 12 minutes.

00:22:24.100 Now, this is where our memory of this, uh, this situation diverges a little bit because

00:22:28.320 your recollection of this, which you've told on the air, my embarrassment many, many times 0.95

00:22:32.520 is that I looked at you as if you were crazy.

00:22:35.740 Um, and, uh, and I basically doubted that you could ever do such a thing.

00:22:41.600 No, no, no.

00:22:41.980 You, what my memory is, is that you did look at me like a little crazy, like we've had 12

00:22:48.500 minutes on the air.

00:22:49.340 Yes.

00:22:49.580 And your goal as the producer was to get me to finish the show.

00:22:54.820 Yes, it was.

00:22:55.720 I wasn't really looking for the long-term projections at that point.

00:23:00.200 My long-term projections was we still had like four more breaks to do.

00:23:03.220 We had two minutes probably to reset for the next set.

00:23:06.700 Right.

00:23:06.840 And I took my headphones off and I said, we're going to replace Dr. Laura.

00:23:10.900 And you said, what's to your recollection?

00:23:13.800 My recollection was, oh yeah.

00:23:15.400 Okay.

00:23:15.800 So what do we have next?

00:23:16.940 And it wasn't a brush off as to whether I thought you were going to succeed.

00:23:20.120 I was there.

00:23:20.720 I was, I believed in the show enough to basically dedicate my four minutes of my

00:23:25.700 career.

00:23:26.300 Right.

00:23:26.580 12, you had 12 minutes.

00:23:27.620 I had 12 minutes of my career into making this thing happen.

00:23:30.340 So I did, you know, I did believe in the show though.

00:23:34.200 I remember you saying, how about we finish the whole show?

00:23:38.380 How about that?

00:23:39.200 How about we, how about prove it for one program?

00:23:41.840 Let's do the rest of the show.

00:23:43.360 Yes.

00:23:43.720 Yeah.

00:23:43.960 About the, you know, that, and that I think was a sensible idea at the time.

00:23:48.460 But I do realize that after a while that those moments are different than I took them.

00:23:53.820 Right.

00:23:53.980 Like, it's like you, you, you and your little pronouncements mean something because they

00:24:00.520 last for a long time.

00:24:01.380 And when you see it in your head, that's when those things wind up happening. 0.95

00:24:03.960 At the time, I just thought you were, you know, basically nuts or just like incredibly

00:24:07.920 egotistic and thought you were just going to take over the world and in a few, right. 0.94

00:24:10.960 Right.

00:24:11.260 In 12 minutes.

00:24:12.000 In 12 minutes.

00:24:13.100 Um, you have joked many times that, um, and it's funny and I, I, I get, I'll, I'll circle

00:24:21.420 back to this towards the end, but you have joked many times that you never have ever finished

00:24:30.240 any of the spaceships that you have started to build.

00:24:35.240 Explain that.

00:24:36.180 Um, well, there is a, a long-term thing.

00:24:41.160 And I think, and I've talked about this to many, many people who've come into the company

00:24:45.940 and have been frustrated by a similar dynamic, um, where Glenn has a lot of very big ideas,

00:24:51.760 I explain.

00:24:53.240 Um, and, uh, there are a lot of times great ideas, but there is a limit about how many

00:24:59.900 different great ideas you can do.

00:25:01.840 The only person I know who's doing things like this, like a Zeylon Musk, right?

00:25:04.400 Like, it's like, I want a flamethrower company, a car company and a space company, all of

00:25:07.700 them.

00:25:08.080 And you're like, well, right.

00:25:09.440 Most people are going to say, let's just pick one.

00:25:12.180 Right.

00:25:12.560 And we'll try to do that.

00:25:13.780 And so you, you, one of the things I think is your strength and has been one of the things

00:25:17.860 that's made you successful is your, I, your ability to be super engaged in these big ideas.

00:25:23.300 And it's different than a lot of hosts.

00:25:24.660 Like, you know, a lot of times my temptation is to come in and just, I want to do a good

00:25:28.160 show every day.

00:25:28.660 I want listeners to be able to enjoy the show and like it and then be able to go on

00:25:33.160 with their day after learning something and enjoying their time.

00:25:35.940 And that's something obviously we try to do every day.

00:25:38.120 However, you always want to do these big grandiose things.

00:25:40.880 You know, we, I want 500,000 people on the mall in Washington.

00:25:43.520 That's an insane idea.

00:25:45.020 Um, it's also insane when you're trying to do six of those other things that are generally

00:25:48.900 the same scale.

00:25:49.760 We're launching a network.

00:25:50.660 We're doing this, we're doing this and we're doing this.

00:25:52.040 And there's never a shortage of Glenn Beck ideas.

00:25:53.920 Never.

00:25:54.320 Um, there's always a new spaceship to build.

00:25:57.340 So what we would joke about is like, okay, in the backyard, there's about six or seven

00:26:01.940 half built spaceships that can't take off because we all went and tried to build one.

00:26:07.060 And then we all had to move on to the next one.

00:26:09.400 Um, and you know, it's tough because it's, you know, a big part of my job and my career

00:26:15.540 has been trying to execute your vision.

00:26:18.100 Like what you want to do, what you think is the most important, what you think is the big

00:26:22.180 idea that can move the show to the next area or change the country or whatever it is.

00:26:26.180 Um, and at times I feel like we have these great ideas.

00:26:28.600 We get halfway down those roads and then you're like, I've got a new big idea.

00:26:33.460 Dump that one. 0.92

00:26:34.220 We're going this way.

00:26:35.180 And so that takes a lot of getting used to.

00:26:37.520 I mean, it was, you know, it was really frustrating at times at the beginning.

00:26:40.120 And I've talked to you a little bit about this before, but like, you know, we would write

00:26:43.060 speeches and work our asses off to make a great speech at a huge venue.

00:26:47.920 That was a big moment in your career.

00:26:49.440 And we'd work on it together.

00:26:51.220 We'd write the thing together.

00:26:52.260 You'd have this awesome speech that had a beginning, a middle and end.

00:26:55.380 It had stories.

00:26:56.160 It had points.

00:26:56.700 It had facts.

00:26:57.320 All these great things, jokes.

00:26:58.680 It was amazing.

00:26:59.340 It was interesting.

00:27:01.080 People would have liked it, but they don't know that because you would walk up to the

00:27:04.720 podium and you'd see like some guy wearing a shirt that reminded you of a story from

00:27:11.460 your childhood.

00:27:12.080 And then it would go that direction.

00:27:13.900 And what sucks about it is that speech would be really good.

00:27:17.620 So I couldn't go afterwards and say, what did you do?

00:27:20.940 You blew that one because you didn't.

00:27:22.260 It was great.

00:27:22.740 It was a great speech.

00:27:23.440 And you're usually really good at those things.

00:27:25.740 But it can get frustrating.

00:27:27.220 You can see that from the other side of that where you work your ass off to try to make

00:27:29.960 something good.

00:27:30.640 And then it just winds up in the trash afterwards.

00:27:34.120 So that takes some getting used to.

00:27:35.640 And after a while, I sort of realized that part of your process is having that backup that

00:27:42.320 you know is there and good.

00:27:43.640 And when you feel confident enough and secure enough in knowing that there's something good

00:27:49.280 you could go to if you wanted to, it seems to free up your ability to just connect on

00:27:54.780 another level.

00:27:56.000 So after a while, I don't know if this is me just justifying how meaningless my career

00:28:00.480 has been.

00:28:00.960 But eventually I got to the point where I thought that was really an important role.

00:28:04.560 So did you, it was, did you ever think to yourself, uh, I mean, first, how long did

00:28:13.500 it take you before you stopped being pissed?

00:28:16.620 Uh, and did you ever think to yourself, I'm just not going to do that.

00:28:21.240 I'm just not going to write it.

00:28:22.340 I'm not going to spend, I'll just write gibberish.

00:28:24.660 Right.

00:28:24.800 Yeah, I mean, there's a, I think when it first started, I was just happy to be involved

00:28:30.960 in it, you know, and after a while, you know, you're like, well, I really feel like we did

00:28:34.440 some really good stuff that wasn't used and it would get disappointing, um, that it wouldn't

00:28:38.060 get used.

00:28:38.840 Sometimes we'd be able to reuse it in other places or whatever, but it was, it would get

00:28:42.180 frustrating.

00:28:43.220 Um, and I, I don't think there was ever, like, I always felt that like, you know, you were

00:28:49.340 paying me a salary.

00:28:50.660 Like it was my job to just do the best thing that I could do, whether you use it or not.

00:28:55.060 Um, but still that can be creatively frustrating.

00:28:57.560 Um, and it wasn't until I kind of understood, I think the dynamic of you and the way you work

00:29:03.880 at your best, right?

00:29:05.340 Like my, you know, I used to talk about this to interns that would come in.

00:29:09.100 Cause when I started with you, I wasn't, you know, I was legitimately an intern and like

00:29:12.720 half of my job, uh, if you know, Glenn, probably three quarters of the job was to go to like

00:29:16.920 Dunkin' Donuts and get egg sandwiches, right?

00:29:18.920 Like, I mean, I, that was really like where you, where you started and people would come

00:29:21.800 in and a lot of times over the years, I think this has been a big change in radio and probably

00:29:26.020 television as well.

00:29:26.780 It's like, people don't want to do that stuff anymore.

00:29:28.860 Like that stuff's below you.

00:29:30.240 You know, I went to college and I don't, I studied X, Y, and Z.

00:29:32.840 I'm not going to go get an egg sandwich.

00:29:34.400 And like our philosophy around here has always been like what everybody's job is everybody's

00:29:39.040 job.

00:29:39.320 Like if you can help out, like if you're getting egg sandwiches, one day you're getting

00:29:41.960 egg sandwiches.

00:29:42.480 And over time, the way I, I thought about all of these things was, you know, my job

00:29:49.220 is to make the show better.

00:29:50.200 It's to put you in a position where you can, you can do your best work.

00:29:53.640 And so sometimes I know this now because I'm hosting a lot more and doing all these other

00:29:58.200 things.

00:29:58.480 Like sometimes an egg sandwich is key to that, right? 0.61

00:30:00.860 Like sometimes I need a freaking soda and I need it right now.

00:30:03.900 And it's going to make me very happy to do a much better show. 0.84

00:30:05.840 And that seems silly, but I think the same thing happens with when it comes to, you know,

00:30:11.300 building the rocket ship halfway.

00:30:12.980 Like we don't know the rocket ship is going to go halfway and then you're going to come

00:30:15.920 up with a better idea later on.

00:30:17.880 Like that, that might've been the big idea that we, you know, if you didn't really push

00:30:22.620 those things all the way to their end, you wouldn't know where they go.

00:30:25.000 You wouldn't know that 500,000 people could be gathered in Washington, D.C.

00:30:28.460 If you didn't go down those roads and they don't always work.

00:30:30.780 But I mean, I think in a way it's like, it's looking at it almost like a, an inventor

00:30:34.320 or, um, you know, um, uh, you go back and you look at, you know, how many times an Einstein

00:30:38.800 fail and not that I'm comparing you to Einstein by any means.

00:30:41.120 That's what I heard.

00:30:41.800 That's what America heard.

00:30:43.300 No, but like, that's what you do.

00:30:44.320 That's the process, right?

00:30:45.180 You try all these things.

00:30:46.080 A lot of them wind up not working.

00:30:47.580 A lot of them wind up, you look back later and you're like, God, that seemed like a good

00:30:50.180 idea.

00:30:51.100 But in reality, it kind of sucked, but that's okay.

00:30:54.100 As long as you really, you know, if you're getting value out of what I was doing, I was happy.

00:30:59.220 Um, and you know, that like, as long as I was able to do some of my own creativity

00:31:03.780 and, and, and jump into that world, I mean, it is rewarding.

00:31:06.440 It's just like, you have to understand the rules that you're working under.

00:31:10.320 All right, back to the podcast in a second.

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00:32:37.740 So you, uh, the, uh, the head of the company now is Tyler.

00:32:45.940 And, um, he has, uh, he said to me after one of our last specials, which took three weeks

00:32:57.280 to write and, uh, he said, he, he called you about four minutes before airtime.

00:33:04.800 Do you know this?

00:33:05.460 Mm hmm.

00:33:05.740 And, uh, or maybe texted you and he said, how are you doing?

00:33:10.420 And you said, Glenn just kind of threw out the script.

00:33:15.020 Yes, I do remember.

00:33:15.840 And, uh, I'm not sure how we're going to get there, but we've pulled a thousand rabbits out

00:33:25.040 of the hat.

00:33:25.780 No, no cause to worry.

00:33:28.200 Another rabbit isn't on the way.

00:33:29.820 Do you remember that?

00:33:31.240 I do.

00:33:31.720 This, was it this socialism special?

00:33:34.400 No, it was on the, um, uh, it was, uh, the first impeachment special on Ukraine.

00:33:41.440 Yeah, that's right.

00:33:42.760 Um, very complex chalkboard.

00:33:44.980 Very complex.

00:33:45.860 And that was a great example of what we're talking about.

00:33:48.800 Um, because you know, not, I mean, you know, people worked a lot on that.

00:33:54.040 A lot of late nights, a lot of, I mean, the guy who wrote that, um, had been here every

00:33:59.800 night until, you know, 11 o'clock at night.

00:34:02.380 And you obviously had outlined all the vision and where you wanted to go, but like the actual,

00:34:06.440 like execution of a show like that is insanity.

00:34:09.680 I mean, there's so many moving parts, so many things.

00:34:12.560 And, you know, we're trying to do it with, you know, you've always, I think, been a proponent

00:34:15.980 of a sort of a small tight knit staff where people are like really good at what they do.

00:34:21.340 They can do a lot of different things and they don't mind working their butts off to get

00:34:25.540 there.

00:34:26.320 Um, and that's kind of the situation here now, um, to this day.

00:34:29.800 And so, you know, Jason, who put a lot of his heart and soul into that had gone through

00:34:35.220 this and it was supposed to be executed a certain way.

00:34:38.640 I believe I sat in 20, 30 meetings in which you agreed to do it this way.

00:34:43.580 And then of course, five minutes before the show, more than that, a little bit, maybe

00:34:47.080 an hour before the show actually starts, you decide, no, I'm going to throw this out.

00:34:50.220 I don't want to do this this way.

00:34:50.980 I'm just going to go up to the board and improv this.

00:34:52.300 I'm going to do this and like, you know, the human instinct in a moment like that is

00:34:58.380 like, wait a minute, you have to protect what you've done.

00:35:00.600 Like, and this is, I've worked my butt off on this.

00:35:02.900 We had this plan this way.

00:35:04.140 We don't have fact checks ready for whatever you're going to blurt out in an improv hour

00:35:10.040 of stuff.

00:35:11.800 Um, and you know, you and Jason looked at each other.

00:35:14.140 I thought at one point you were going to get into a fist fight and that was not going to

00:35:17.260 work out for well for you. 1.00

00:35:18.420 Cause he was like special forces, so you were going to get your ass kicked. 0.99

00:35:21.340 Um, but, uh, you know, that, that is a perfect example of that moment where, and Jason is 0.99

00:35:27.440 totally understands this.

00:35:29.040 And so does everybody.

00:35:29.740 I think like that led to you being able to, once you got all of that internalized, it

00:35:36.100 helps you come out and explain it in a way that, that can explain a massively complicated

00:35:41.040 story like Ukraine to the average person.

00:35:43.300 I mean, you know, they would be somewhat of your superpower, right?

00:35:46.780 Like you're able to kind of take that stuff and break that down in an interesting way

00:35:49.760 where most people just want to, you know, hang themselves listening to it.

00:35:53.140 Um, and it, that whole process of everything being written and everything being lined out

00:35:58.440 on the chalkboard and all of those elements lined up in order is all part of the thing

00:36:02.940 that gets you to the show.

00:36:04.680 That was one of the biggest specials we ever did.

00:36:06.920 Um, it's hard to understand.

00:36:08.260 And I think like I've, at some point you just need to stop trying to understand it, put you,

00:36:12.900 you try to put yourself in the position, do your best work, put yourself in a position

00:36:15.700 where you can do your best work and then it, you know, you go and you do it.

00:36:19.840 And if it fails, it's totally your fault and we had nothing to do with it.

00:36:23.620 Well, it would have been, it would have been, it would have been.

00:36:28.560 What's the biggest fight we've ever had?

00:36:33.560 God, uh, I mean, there haven't been many.

00:36:36.300 I mean, I can only think of two.

00:36:38.460 You think of two.

00:36:40.640 Um, what our biggest fights are ever.

00:36:45.640 I mean, like, you know, when I decided to not go to Florida, there was a, I think you

00:36:49.860 were disappointed.

00:36:51.920 Yeah.

00:36:52.320 Um, cause I, I wouldn't consider that a fight.

00:36:54.000 I don't remember it being a fight.

00:36:55.260 Like, but I mean, it was, you know, I remember how it happened.

00:36:58.740 Uh, I remember in the car, in the car.

00:37:00.360 I remember being in the car with you.

00:37:01.860 Uh, cause we were, you know, basically I was, I, we had planned this whole thing.

00:37:05.660 We had made, done the whole show, the whole shows, all three of them, all the tapes.

00:37:09.980 Yeah.

00:37:10.620 But we did shows on WABC in New York.

00:37:12.860 I mean, we had a lot of, uh, big things going into the Rush Limbaugh studio.

00:37:16.440 Remember that first time doing it with, you did a show on the golden EIB microphone.

00:37:21.500 Um, you know, it was a lot, it was a lot and it happened fast and you were able to get,

00:37:25.040 you know, a syndicate or a, uh, uh, actual show.

00:37:27.740 And they had a couple, we had several stations we were choosing from at the time and wound

00:37:32.160 up choosing Tampa, uh, 970 WFL, a station.

00:37:35.280 We loved the city.

00:37:35.920 I loved eventually.

00:37:37.420 But at the time I, you know, I was in Connecticut.

00:37:39.540 It was my hometown station and you were leaving and they offered me the slot to kind of come

00:37:43.940 in and do the show.

00:37:45.040 And I was, you know, it's like, I'm 20, 20, 21, 22 years old.

00:37:48.920 Like I'm doing the morning show on my hometown station where all the, you know, all my high

00:37:53.800 school friends that are like coming back from college because I'm me, uh, and they would,

00:37:58.600 you know, you know, I'm doing a show and it was, it was cool.

00:38:00.700 And I, you know, it was a good opportunity and it helped me learn a lot of things.

00:38:04.340 Um, but you know, I always felt like we did our best work together, you know, and that

00:38:08.400 was one of the things that eventually convinced me to kind of come back down there.

00:38:10.860 Cause I, I just felt like that was, you know, where you're able to do, we were able to

00:38:14.500 do a lot of special things, I think, um, through that period.

00:38:16.920 And I mean, it died obviously a long time ago.

00:38:19.280 Um, but, uh, you know, I mean, at that time it was, it was good.

00:38:22.120 Um, and, uh, but, uh, I, I don't, I didn't think of that as a fight by any means.

00:38:26.780 It was more like, you know, I think it would have been fun to, to do together and we've

00:38:31.460 eventually did do it.

00:38:32.440 Yeah.

00:38:32.780 Um, fights.

00:38:33.400 I don't know.

00:38:33.740 What do you do?

00:38:34.520 If you're thinking of fights, what are you thinking?

00:38:36.720 Do you have examples?

00:38:37.580 There's only two in my mind.

00:38:39.200 I was right in both of them, by the way.

00:38:40.620 You were, you really were.

00:38:42.620 Really?

00:38:42.900 You really were.

00:38:43.440 Um, uh, the first one is when your wife, cause no, most people don't know your wife

00:38:51.000 is famous too.

00:38:52.600 Um, she was with, uh, what was his name?

00:38:56.380 Uh, uh, Peter Strzok, I think.

00:38:59.180 No, not, she's not famous for that. 0.60

00:39:02.360 No, that's a different Lisa Page.

00:39:03.560 Her name is Lisa Page.

00:39:04.900 It is, it is spelled differently.

00:39:06.360 She's a radio host.

00:39:07.140 She's a radio host.

00:39:07.920 She's a national radio show and, and, and famous in her own right. 0.99

00:39:11.320 Um, and, uh, she was going to go up and work with radio legend, uh, John Lander.

00:39:19.180 Yeah.

00:39:19.480 In Boston.

00:39:20.120 In Boston.

00:39:20.400 And we were just at the place where I knew I was saying it all the time.

00:39:27.620 It's coming.

00:39:28.760 It's coming.

00:39:29.460 It's coming.

00:39:29.960 It's coming.

00:39:30.620 I mean, it was, it was, I mean, we'd gone from 18th place to first place on the ratings

00:39:35.080 in Tampa.

00:39:35.640 Well, with a side trip to 18th.

00:39:37.260 We went 18th to 23rd.

00:39:38.360 23rd.

00:39:38.780 Then you went up.

00:39:39.320 Yeah.

00:39:39.540 Um, yes, I agreed with you, right?

00:39:42.300 I went, this was, we were, we were in a, I, and I didn't think you did.

00:39:46.020 And I was mad because you had just come back and getting you onto FLA was, if I remember

00:39:54.340 right, not easy.

00:39:56.200 Was it?

00:39:57.260 You mean getting you, meaning me to come down?

00:39:59.560 Yeah.

00:39:59.780 Yeah.

00:39:59.920 Yeah.

00:40:00.060 No, it was, it was, I mean, it was a, it was a fun job to do at my hometown.

00:40:03.980 So I didn't, but I mean, I, I knew I wanted to leave.

00:40:07.180 No, no, no.

00:40:07.480 I'm saying when you left KC 101 to come join me in Florida after I had already done six

00:40:14.220 months or whatever, and you were like, okay, this is not good.

00:40:18.880 Uh, and I want to come back.

00:40:20.880 I wanted you back.

00:40:22.380 But if I remember right, it wasn't easy.

00:40:24.300 It wasn't easy.

00:40:25.180 No.

00:40:25.420 I mean, it was a lot of moving parts.

00:40:26.820 I was, uh, currently, I guess not engaged, but pretty serious with her.

00:40:33.100 And, and then you guys got married and then she got this great job for her.

00:40:38.560 Yeah.

00:40:38.840 And all I see was you saying, I might leave.

00:40:43.040 I'm leaving you again.

00:40:44.260 There I am.

00:40:45.060 Departing again. 1.00

00:40:45.820 That bastard. 1.00

00:40:46.820 Uh, it will look, I think, uh, you know, as much as I like you and respect. 1.00

00:40:50.420 No, no, no, no, no.

00:40:51.160 It was also a, you know, a question of, it was important to me to be able to take my wife's

00:40:57.240 dreams seriously, even though I did, uh, very much not want to go.

00:41:01.440 Um, you know, she got a very good offer at the time.

00:41:04.780 It was considerably, you know, more money than I was making and considerably higher,

00:41:10.160 uh, profile job.

00:41:12.120 We were still, we weren't even national show by any means at that point.

00:41:16.360 Um, so it was, did you believe at that time?

00:41:20.060 Yeah.

00:41:20.360 Oh yeah.

00:41:20.700 I was, I look, I, you know, as, as much as we make fun of each other on this, I mean,

00:41:24.740 I really believe the show could, was something special.

00:41:27.340 I had listened to a lot of really good talk radio.

00:41:30.120 I had listened to a lot of really good personalities over the years.

00:41:33.040 I mean, I came in through, you know, I listened to the number one market in America.

00:41:36.160 It's where I, you know, I grew up listening to that station.

00:41:38.020 I listened to, I mean, that station in Miami is a legendary talk radio station.

00:41:42.220 IOD.

00:41:42.700 Um, and they did things differently and I knew there was something special about what we

00:41:46.820 were doing.

00:41:47.460 It was just a matter of like, I, I, you can't be dismissive of your spouse or spouse to be

00:41:53.200 and their dreams as well.

00:41:54.540 And it was something we, we had to take seriously.

00:41:56.420 So the other argument that we had that you were absolutely right on, and I think I've

00:42:03.100 said this to you, um, since, uh, was the day that it was, it was happening at the time

00:42:11.840 of Fox, which I don't think people can understand the pressure that we were under.

00:42:17.400 Insane.

00:42:17.580 You know, people are, you know, they're doing drugs and killing themselves at, at Saturday

00:42:22.920 night live.

00:42:23.620 We literally laughed at Saturday night live and nobody laughs at Saturday night live

00:42:29.820 anymore.

00:42:30.640 Um, but we had, you were the writer, Dan was writing, Pat was writing, um, and we would meet

00:42:40.920 in the morning and have to churn out an hour television show, all monologue.

00:42:46.000 Um, and nobody had ever done it.

00:42:49.960 Remember when we tried to hire a producer from NBC and they said, you'll never keep this pace.

00:42:53.700 It'll never, you can't do it.

00:42:55.900 And that was 20 minutes of the show being a monologue.

00:42:59.780 Um, and, uh, I was getting beat up from everyone and, uh, it was before it got to be crazy, crazy. 0.99

00:43:10.960 There was something that came up in the news about the damn birth certificate and it wasn't 0.99

00:43:18.120 even about the birth certificate. 0.99

00:43:19.960 It was about freedom of speech.

00:43:22.580 Yeah.

00:43:22.940 Right. 0.94

00:43:23.160 And it, and you were like, you're going to get killed.

00:43:26.820 And I'm like, why can't a human being question?

00:43:31.920 And it became, we, that was the only real fight I think we ever had, but we weren't fighting

00:43:39.300 the same thing.

00:43:40.460 We were fighting calmly, rationally.

00:43:44.860 Don't even touch them.

00:43:46.560 And, and I was fighting, I'll touch whatever the hell I want to touch.

00:43:51.540 Oh yeah.

00:43:52.200 And I do remember that.

00:43:53.600 It was a fun morning.

00:43:55.240 Um, and it, you know, it's very true.

00:43:57.620 You weren't a believer in the theory by any means, but you were frustrated at that.

00:44:01.860 The fact that, you know, it was one of these things that anyone who said anything about

00:44:04.880 it was just being shut down and destroyed.

00:44:07.140 Um, and you know, I think it wasn't something you had looked into seriously, right?

00:44:10.980 It was just on the fringes of conspiracy and you were just voicing, I think.

00:44:14.780 I can't, I can't question.

00:44:15.960 Right, exactly.

00:44:16.900 Why can't someone say, I mean, cause, and had we gotten in trouble yet for, what was

00:44:23.780 the conspiracy that we debunked and then it became our conspiracy somehow or not?

00:44:28.220 Oh yeah.

00:44:28.700 The, uh, oh gosh.

00:44:30.440 Fema Camp.

00:44:30.600 Fema Camp.

00:44:31.200 That's right.

00:44:31.600 Which we did a huge special on debunking it.

00:44:33.640 Debunking.

00:44:33.900 It was, it was because like that was, I mean, now it seems totally rational to do things like

00:44:38.180 that because, you know, the conspiracy stuff bubbles under online and blows up to real

00:44:44.000 things that people believe, huge chunks of the population.

00:44:46.580 And we took that seriously from the very beginning, which is why we did that.

00:44:49.760 We paid attention to the internet.

00:44:51.660 Yeah.

00:44:52.100 Very early, obviously.

00:44:53.440 Um, but, uh, yeah, that particular thing, like, and I think this is an interesting thing

00:44:57.020 to highlight, um, something that has, has always been a reason why, um, we've worked well together

00:45:04.280 and that like, it's, you know, it's been, it's something that I've liked doing is because

00:45:09.240 you were never someone who just wanted, uh, what you were saying spouted back to you.

00:45:16.720 Um, because I, that's dull.

00:45:18.700 That's not why I got into this.

00:45:19.740 You know, I, I want to be able to say what I want to say and, you know, and you want to

00:45:25.720 work with someone who actually wants to hear pushback.

00:45:28.460 And I can't tell you how many times have we done this and it's happened both ways, certainly,

00:45:31.560 but like where you think X is correct and we go over and talk about it.

00:45:36.480 And at the end, we kind of realized thinking maybe Y is correct. 0.99

00:45:39.840 Um, or at least at the very least you'll consider, you know, what I'm bringing to the table

00:45:44.060 and maybe dismiss it or whatever.

00:45:45.580 But that's an important part of that.

00:45:47.400 And it's, it keeps me sane.

00:45:48.980 I know, because if I, if, if every time I came in here, I was afraid to bring up a different,

00:45:53.100 um, a different point or something that disagreed with you because you were going to blow up

00:45:57.120 on me.

00:45:57.460 Well, you know, I wouldn't want to work in that environment.

00:45:59.040 Right.

00:45:59.900 Um, and that one, I do remember being like, it was just one of those intense days.

00:46:03.480 Those days at Fox were freaking crazy.

00:46:05.660 Uh, everything.

00:46:06.620 Can you believe we did it?

00:46:07.580 No, I'm looking back at it.

00:46:09.280 I mean, I, there's so many big, huge things.

00:46:14.360 Things that we have done together.

00:46:18.260 And it's, there's so many of them so close.

00:46:23.320 You're like, I don't even know.

00:46:25.600 I don't even know.

00:46:26.420 Yeah.

00:46:26.520 Sometimes people bring up, do you remember when you did X, Y, and Z and this person in

00:46:30.220 the white house reacted and, and this happened?

00:46:32.580 And no, that wasn't a big deal at the time.

00:46:34.260 What?

00:46:34.520 I don't really remember it.

00:46:35.580 And then you go back and you watch it and the monologue and you're like, oh my gosh,

00:46:37.940 yeah, I remember that now.

00:46:38.800 It was just another week at that point.

00:46:41.540 Um, and that's why it was, you know, it was important to have that dynamic where you can

00:46:46.520 be honest with each other.

00:46:47.760 You can argue those points out and like come out with where you stand and then go out and

00:46:51.940 do the show every day.

00:46:53.400 But it was never something where we were trying to balance, you know, all of these factors.

00:46:58.140 It was, it was like trying to figure out, okay, this is, this is what our principles

00:47:01.340 are.

00:47:02.180 We don't have time to think about how, whether we should be doing this or not, right?

00:47:06.640 Like you just got to go out in there and do it because, uh, and you get up, make sure

00:47:10.320 you just stay consistent with what you believe.

00:47:11.840 Cause at the end of the day, if you do that, you can always defend it.

00:47:14.300 You always know where you are.

00:47:15.200 As long as you're consistent with those principles, you can always at least explain to the audience.

00:47:18.580 This is what I was thinking.

00:47:19.500 This is why I was thinking of it.

00:47:20.940 This is why I was thinking it.

00:47:22.080 And that's, uh, I think one of the things that's made the show really good.

00:47:26.000 Um, and it goes back to the beginning of it when, you know, things that we've talked about

00:47:29.320 Terry Schiavo before, uh, you know, woman who was in the vegetative state and you initially

00:47:33.660 came out and said, yeah, let her die.

00:47:35.080 No big deal. 0.97

00:47:36.140 Flippantly on a Friday afternoon.

00:47:37.840 And you got a call from somebody who said, Hey, are you, I list, I've been listening to

00:47:42.560 you.

00:47:43.020 You're pro-life thought about this.

00:47:45.320 Have you actually taken any time to think about it?

00:47:48.520 And you took that seriously, spent the weekend thinking about it and realized you believe you're

00:47:54.380 on the wrong side of it and like the typical talk radio thing to do is to come out on the

00:47:59.980 other side and say, either ignore it completely that you even were on the other side, brush

00:48:04.680 it off and say, well, you know, never make a big deal about it or just move on to other

00:48:09.600 stories and not cover that one anymore.

00:48:11.680 And what you decided to do was, was just stand up and say, I was wrong.

00:48:16.080 I talked to a caller, made me think about it.

00:48:18.280 I've changed my opinion on it.

00:48:19.380 Here's why it was wrong.

00:48:21.200 That people want that anymore.

00:48:23.100 I don't know.

00:48:28.280 In my pessimistic moments, I think, no, I have to be honest with you about that.

00:48:32.500 And it's one of the things that, you know.

00:48:34.600 So one thing we've prided ourselves on, you know, the 2008 collapse, when did we start

00:48:39.300 talking about that?

00:48:40.040 Oh God.

00:48:40.540 If it wasn't 2006, it was very early 2007 when.

00:48:44.180 I think it was, I think it was even earlier.

00:48:46.260 Maybe.

00:48:46.660 I mean, cause it was when everything was raging, you know, like the economy's going fantastically

00:48:51.600 well, uh, everything looks like it's hot, you know, everything's going well.

00:48:55.500 And you're a stat person.

00:48:56.720 You, you and I make such a good balance, I think, because you are, you are calm, rational,

00:49:07.200 um, highly intelligent, um, and you like statistics.

00:49:15.340 So you're almost at times C-3PO.

00:49:19.600 Our chances of survival, sir, I just want to point out, are.

00:49:22.980 26.35%.

00:49:24.280 Yeah.

00:49:24.620 Right.

00:49:25.480 Um, and it's a good balance.

00:49:29.140 Once I, maybe five years into it, we started, I started trusting you.

00:49:35.020 You started trusting me.

00:49:36.540 Yeah.

00:49:36.820 In our areas of expertise.

00:49:38.260 Like mine is fly by the seat of the pants.

00:49:42.780 Trust me.

00:49:43.460 I got it.

00:49:44.500 Never tell me the odds.

00:49:45.420 Yeah.

00:49:45.640 Never tell me the odds.

00:49:46.780 And you are the, I don't think we can fit through that space.

00:49:53.300 And here's why.

00:49:55.000 Uh, uh, and we always prided ourselves.

00:50:01.100 I mean, remember how much heat we took for the crash?

00:50:05.860 Oh yeah.

00:50:06.380 I mean, and that was, that was one, I mean, you think about, think about today.

00:50:10.340 Uh, I mean, George W. Bush was a very popular guy among Republicans.

00:50:16.780 It's kind of easy to forget that now.

00:50:18.760 Um, but at the time he was highly supported.

00:50:20.820 No one said critical things about the guy, uh, on talk radio.

00:50:24.000 And you were, you were critical of him in many ways.

00:50:27.180 And even when it wasn't about him, there was all of these people, callers, program directors,

00:50:31.960 tons of people around the country that would, would say, you're talking down the economy.

00:50:35.540 You're hurting the Republicans and you know, you just didn't care.

00:50:40.360 Right.

00:50:40.540 And as a stat person, that must've driven you crazy for part of it.

00:50:45.040 Yeah.

00:50:45.240 Because of, especially at the beginning, cause there really wasn't a lot of evidence of

00:50:48.800 it showing up.

00:50:50.180 It really wasn't until the last year.

00:50:52.080 Maybe.

00:50:52.580 Maybe.

00:50:53.020 Maybe.

00:50:53.240 I mean, there started, the weakness started in probably 2007 to be slightly visible, but

00:50:57.260 still had historical, uh, echoes of, of, of periods we had seen before and then seen

00:51:03.500 recovery on.

00:51:04.120 We didn't, you know, the 2008 thing didn't seem obvious to a lot of people who were really 0.93

00:51:11.280 smart and not just like dumb liberals that we didn't know, you know, were annoying us

00:51:14.880 on MSNBC, but like smart conservatives who were looking at this and saying like, no, this, 0.98

00:51:18.380 this is okay for X, Y, and Z.

00:51:20.520 Um, so yeah, I mean, at the beginning, I remember telling, telling you like, it did not seem like

00:51:24.060 the right place to go, uh, and that it could, you know, it was damaging us with listeners

00:51:30.260 at times and program directors.

00:51:32.220 I mean, it really, we lost money big time.

00:51:34.280 We lost affiliates.

00:51:35.400 We lost a lot of money.

00:51:36.360 And that is, and that must've seemed crazy to you.

00:51:39.300 It, yes, though.

00:51:41.240 I will say it's also part of the thing I always liked about the show.

00:51:44.500 Um, to me, there was always a, an acceptable amount of, of risk for standing up for what

00:51:51.000 you think is right.

00:51:52.220 Even in like, you know, and this has happened a million times throughout the show where the

00:51:57.840 right thing to say for the show, as far as generating revenue and, and, and getting listeners

00:52:03.340 for the next quarter is one thing.

00:52:06.540 And we were saying the other thing.

00:52:08.040 And my belief, uh, the entire time from the very beginning, even before we started the

00:52:13.860 show together was that's the person I want to listen to.

00:52:17.280 The person I want to listen to is the person who knows it's going to cost them money is going

00:52:20.980 to say it anyway, because that's when, you know, they really mean it and they're sticking

00:52:24.500 by it no matter what.

00:52:25.480 And, and also who will admit when they really believe something and now they believe the

00:52:30.880 other thing.

00:52:31.260 And here's how I got there.

00:52:32.540 That's an interesting person to me.

00:52:34.180 Right.

00:52:34.940 Um, I don't.

00:52:36.040 And there used to be a value to that.

00:52:38.500 Yeah.

00:52:39.000 And I, I think there may be a value to that still, but I don't think anybody believes that

00:52:45.340 somebody actually does that.

00:52:47.200 Yeah.

00:52:47.980 Now it's, you only said this for this reason.

00:52:51.500 You only switched because of this reason.

00:52:54.180 What people don't know is your super genius, colossal failure somehow or another that has

00:53:01.500 planned all of this stuff out.

00:53:03.180 So you, there's no, there's only downside.

00:53:07.320 Right.

00:53:07.600 No, I, I, I think that's probably true.

00:53:11.180 And I, that has changed to me, uh, over the years in that I think my belief was always like

00:53:17.260 you take those short term hits because longterm your audience is going to know they're going

00:53:22.040 to know they can trust you in those tough moments.

00:53:24.860 And, um, and I think there's an argument to be made that it's taken a while with some

00:53:29.720 of these things, but that's happened here.

00:53:31.500 You know, I mean, I think like, you know, like, you know, you were obviously, uh, and

00:53:34.920 we both were not big fans of Donald Trump during the primary.

00:53:37.980 Um, but like, doesn't that give you a lot more credibility on your stance with him in

00:53:42.000 Ukraine now?

00:53:43.140 No, because they'll say I'm only doing it.

00:53:46.080 I don't know if you read this.

00:53:47.360 It was in, it was, I got a Google alert.

00:53:50.100 I'm still failing.

00:53:51.500 You are.

00:53:52.200 Congratulations.

00:53:52.760 I'm still failing.

00:53:53.280 Congratulations.

00:53:53.680 It's an awful big room to be failing.

00:53:55.320 Yeah, I know.

00:53:55.780 But I'm still failing.

00:53:57.100 So, uh, I see, I, to me, like if I, if I'm a listener and I hear you be very critical

00:54:02.040 of Donald Trump over the entire time as we're in the primary and then as he's president,

00:54:06.640 you say, okay, well, you know what?

00:54:08.220 These things he's doing right.

00:54:10.240 And I was wrong on those things.

00:54:12.900 And here's why I was wrong.

00:54:14.200 And here's why I think what he's doing is really working.

00:54:16.360 Like, that's the ultimate credibility to me.

00:54:18.560 Someone who is willing to say, you know what?

00:54:20.420 I blew it last time.

00:54:21.520 Nothing.

00:54:21.780 I mean, I think I understand all of your sort of arguments on them.

00:54:25.200 And I had, you know, most of them, if not all of them myself.

00:54:28.760 Um, but you know, both of us have said, like, I think, you know, he's actually done a

00:54:31.760 great job with judges.

00:54:32.580 I didn't think that was going to happen at all.

00:54:33.800 I mean, to be honest with you, I thought he might name not only his sister, but like, uh, you

00:54:37.760 know, like people who were on the apprentice for Supreme Court justices.

00:54:40.260 I would have, I would have totally bought that at the time too.

00:54:42.100 And he's gone the totally opposite way, but like someone who can actually say, yes, he

00:54:46.680 not run from what they used to say, say exactly what I used to say.

00:54:50.340 Here's why it changed.

00:54:51.560 Here's the difference of that gives you credibility on those things.

00:54:54.160 You know, there are some hosts that go out there and have said every single thing Donald

00:54:57.240 Trump has done since he walked into the public eye was the best thing that anyone has

00:55:00.480 ever done.

00:55:01.840 Why would you listen to that person when there's a divisive or questionable issue about something

00:55:07.600 like Ukraine?

00:55:08.340 When that's breaking, why would you listen to the person who no matter what has told

00:55:11.900 you the same thing about this person every single time?

00:55:14.520 I want someone who's thinking about these things individually, who's actually going through

00:55:17.860 their thought process.

00:55:18.620 Those are really the only ones you tell your friends about.

00:55:21.900 Yeah.

00:55:22.520 You know, you only tell your friends now about people who are like, no, no, no.

00:55:26.820 I know you hate this person because you think this, but even they are saying X, Y,

00:55:32.740 Y, and Z.

00:55:33.200 Exactly.

00:55:33.760 And that's, that is lost now.

00:55:37.920 And, you know, I don't know.

00:55:40.600 I mean, I think you could make a lot of the sort of standard arguments on things like social

00:55:44.400 media and our attention span and news cycles and all of those things.

00:55:47.720 But like it, there's an argument to be made now that the better long-term philosophy is

00:55:53.580 just saying whatever is best at this moment.

00:55:56.500 I know.

00:55:56.680 And I'm not going to do that.

00:55:57.640 I don't care if it works or not.

00:55:58.720 I mean, I just don't want, I want no part of it, but I think you can make the argument

00:56:02.060 that financially, that's the better way to go now.

00:56:04.260 So we've had this argument, not argument.

00:56:07.480 We've had this discussion over and over because we both feel the same way.

00:56:11.360 I'm not, I don't want to do the show.

00:56:12.680 I mean, that's, that's not worth why I got into this.

00:56:15.320 It's just not worth it.

00:56:16.580 It'll be empty and ugly and awful.

00:56:18.380 And I don't want to be a part of it.

00:56:20.460 But how do you do your job as an executive producer?

00:56:23.280 Uh, when one of your biggest job is to save me from myself, honestly, it really is.

00:56:33.080 Wouldn't you say?

00:56:34.040 Yeah, no, I think, I think a lot of times you and I have such a pattern together.

00:56:38.100 Now I can look at you.

00:56:40.820 I, you don't have to make a face.

00:56:42.400 I can look at you and I know he is not sure this is accurate.

00:56:48.440 Don't play too hard on this or don't go any further than that.

00:56:52.920 And I'm usually right.

00:56:55.080 You know, we know each other so well.

00:56:57.440 When I start opening my mouth, you're usually right.

00:57:01.600 Before I say anything, if I have a look on my face, you're just like, oh dear God.

00:57:06.920 Yeah.

00:57:07.780 We could detect those things at this point.

00:57:10.460 And so how do you, how do you make that decision now in your role as executive producer?

00:57:21.280 I, my job is to expand and to protect.

00:57:28.320 How do I do that when not only am I not willing to do that, but the host doesn't want to do

00:57:34.340 that?

00:57:34.580 Yeah, uh, that is, that is, that is a tough thing to figure out.

00:57:41.540 Um, I, I, you know, I think, you know, politicians face the same thing, right?

00:57:45.020 Someone who's a strict constitutionalist is going to get a kick out, you know, kick back

00:57:48.860 to his district that all of his voters want.

00:57:51.120 And he knows he has to win the next election or he's not going to be able to, to, uh, to

00:57:55.460 do any good.

00:57:56.020 Right.

00:57:56.400 We, how many times have we heard that argument behind the scenes from people in Washington?

00:57:59.460 Like, look, I, of course I agree with you on that constitution, but we got to get this

00:58:03.480 done if I, cause I'm going to get thrown out of office and then there's going to be

00:58:05.540 no one there to protect the constitution anymore.

00:58:07.660 You know, part of the reason why I went into this and not politics is because I don't want

00:58:12.200 to have to make those calculations.

00:58:13.760 I think the things that we can do is always be consistent in what we actually believe

00:58:19.340 and never, never change that for success or money.

00:58:25.300 However, what you can do, and I think we've done over the years is to look at those issues

00:58:31.320 and say, number one, how can, how can I present this in a way that is actually number one, most

00:58:39.280 effective at times?

00:58:40.740 I think we've lost sight of that in that, look, we believe we were righteous in a particular

00:58:46.280 point and, and it may have been even wrong on the issue, but may have also been right

00:58:50.280 on it, but we're not presenting it in a way that was most likely to, to win someone over

00:58:56.300 to the argument.

00:58:57.100 Arrogance.

00:58:57.980 Yeah, we all have it.

00:58:59.580 I mean, you know, I mean, I think at some level and I don't think it's, it's, I don't

00:59:02.660 think it's an arrogant, well, partially it's an arrogance thing.

00:59:05.100 It is.

00:59:05.440 We, we think we know, we thought we knew when it comes to, uh, Donald Trump and this

00:59:15.140 is not your call.

00:59:16.200 It's mine.

00:59:17.480 Um, I thought I knew for sure what he was going to do and how it was going to play out.

00:59:24.300 And some of it, if you'd be better cause you keep the record, I think I said it would end

00:59:30.360 in impeachment in his first term.

00:59:32.640 Yeah.

00:59:32.960 I think you did say that.

00:59:33.860 Um, which is, you know, I mean, uh, for the reason that it happened is, is totally different

00:59:40.020 than I thought.

00:59:40.760 Right.

00:59:41.040 Right.

00:59:41.200 So I was right in some ways, absolutely wrong in, in other ways.

00:59:47.680 Yeah.

00:59:47.860 And I think like a part of this is like being able to, to, to communicate these things that

00:59:54.280 are true and not being afraid of them.

00:59:57.680 You know, we talked about, you know, for example, Donald Trump's spending record is atrocious.

01:00:02.680 It's atrocious.

01:00:03.840 And we can sit here and say that he's the greatest president has never done anything wrong.

01:00:07.260 Well, the way we do that is by ignoring a thing we held as a fundamental principle before

01:00:12.400 this, which is ignoring the idea that spending is a really, a really big problem.

01:00:17.380 And our debt is a huge problem.

01:00:19.140 Um, and that can't be set aside.

01:00:21.760 We still have to talk about that.

01:00:23.900 But I think, you know, because, especially because so much of the conservative media does

01:00:29.240 not hit you with it.

01:00:30.200 It's shocking to people.

01:00:31.440 I mean, I've, you know, we don't sound a lot of times like other shows do.

01:00:34.480 Um, and if you think about the average listener who's listening to talk radio all day, they

01:00:38.500 might hear six shows in a row that are saying something very similar.

01:00:40.840 And that seventh show is us.

01:00:42.480 And so if we go in there and just try to berate them with our points, number one, it shows

01:00:47.860 that we have not learned any lesson about the problems with certainty, right?

01:00:51.320 You still have to still understand that, you know, you, you might be wrong on certain

01:00:55.320 things.

01:00:55.640 And you might not be wrong about something, but you may be wrong on how to handle it because

01:01:03.640 you're not listening to the people.

01:01:06.180 They're coming from it at a completely different place.

01:01:10.420 We were coming from intellectually, here's what, this is what this is going to mean.

01:01:15.060 This is the kind of chaos that's coming our way.

01:01:17.020 They were coming from it at, you don't know what my life is like anymore, right?

01:01:22.980 I'm really struggling and, and everything is on fire and you, Mr. Beck have a voice, but

01:01:29.680 I don't have a voice.

01:01:31.240 This guy will speak for me.

01:01:34.060 That's huge.

01:01:34.920 I think we're saying that play out, not just, you know, you know, talk shows, one thing,

01:01:38.100 but like, you know, this sort of internal, um, debate among conservatives between, you know,

01:01:42.780 common good conservatism and, and rights-based conservatism where these two things are kind

01:01:47.640 of going at each other right now.

01:01:49.020 And a lot of really good, smart people are looking at this and saying, common good, uh,

01:01:53.520 conservatism is the way to go.

01:01:54.840 Like the, we should have policies implemented by the federal government that will further

01:02:00.000 the goals of conservatism generally.

01:02:02.120 And that should be the, we should be focusing that on that as the ends and not worry as much

01:02:07.120 about the process, whether it comes to the government or whether it comes to the churches

01:02:09.860 or whatever.

01:02:10.400 The bottom line is our goal is to make, is do something for the common good.

01:02:14.180 Um, where I see that as really as an example of, uh, collectivism, um, with, I guess, a

01:02:19.580 small C, but you know, where I think the rights are the end.

01:02:23.860 I mean, rights-based conservatism is the way that I am.

01:02:26.620 However, like realizing that it's not just like some, you know, some person who's not even

01:02:32.720 giving conservatism a fair, uh, shake.

01:02:35.260 It's not those people, uh, making those arguments when they're people who are smart and that you

01:02:39.320 respect on a lot of different issues.

01:02:41.060 It's number one, interesting to listen to them and actually consider their viewpoint and

01:02:46.340 think about what they're saying, um, and how it meshes with your philosophy.

01:02:49.540 And number two, it, there's a, there's a way of explaining it to people who are with

01:02:53.840 you on 85%, 90% of the stuff.

01:02:56.380 Um, if you can explain it that way in an entertaining way, um, and not berate them, right?

01:03:02.960 Like that is going to be a much more, uh, successful thing for your business and for the success of

01:03:09.300 your argument.

01:03:10.120 Back to the podcast.

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01:04:28.980 Is there ever been a time in the last 20 years that you have been physically afraid?

01:04:37.700 Not just of losing your job.

01:04:44.860 I mean, we, like I can remember going on, on, if you go, if you watch some of the footage

01:04:52.160 back of the Washington DC rally, I remember, you know, we had tons of threats going into

01:04:59.300 that in really serious ways.

01:05:03.560 And, you know, we were again, working on, you know, working on the speech together, which

01:05:08.580 you wound up throwing out and then doing a completely different one.

01:05:11.740 And, and I remember, you know, we're driving up to this event and there is security everywhere.

01:05:17.600 I mean, it was, it was serious.

01:05:19.040 It was diapers.

01:05:19.640 Yeah.

01:05:19.820 Oh yeah.

01:05:20.940 And I remember walking out on the stage with you because I was like basically carrying the

01:05:26.380 speech.

01:05:26.760 Like you're walking on a stage, you're waving to everybody.

01:05:29.020 And like, you know, the footage in the very background, there I am, like carrying a book

01:05:32.800 and putting it on the podium.

01:05:35.220 And I remember thinking like, there was a chance at that point, it felt legitimately possible

01:05:39.880 that someone could just take a shot at you the second you walked down on that stage to

01:05:43.480 the point of like the, you know, we're talking bulletproof vests and all these things.

01:05:46.620 Now, of course I didn't have one on.

01:05:48.520 So apparently no one cared if I got shot, which is something to think when you think about

01:05:52.060 your life, something to consider.

01:05:53.220 Uh, but like, I remember in that moment in particular that those times in particular were

01:05:56.980 really rough because we were at the point where like you would do a monologue and someone

01:06:01.000 would be fired from the white house.

01:06:03.140 Like this is not, it was not like a, it wasn't even your intent.

01:06:06.720 You weren't trying to get people fired.

01:06:07.880 But as soon as people were alerted to the things you were talking about, you know, the nation

01:06:12.120 would, was rising up and calling, you know, making thousands of phone calls.

01:06:15.820 And then there was op-eds and there was follow-ups and documentaries and all of these things.

01:06:19.080 And then people were just like leaving their jobs.

01:06:21.160 I mean, you know, Van Jones is obviously maybe the best well-known example.

01:06:25.080 And a lot of conservatives have looked at, uh, it from our perspective, right?

01:06:29.060 Where, you know, here's this guy, he's basically a communist in the white house and we should

01:06:33.020 have known this and it shows who Obama was and all this stuff I think, you know, was true.

01:06:36.840 But on the other hand, think of it from Van Jones's perspective, right?

01:06:39.980 Like here's a guy who is a, uh, even in his own words, a radical activist, right?

01:06:44.420 A guy who is a proponent for communism and, and he is able to take that world.

01:06:49.860 And he says himself, I got rid of the radical, uh, uh, means to get the radical ends.

01:06:54.800 He's able to finagle himself into the boardroom of every major company in the United States

01:07:00.160 talking about green initiatives.

01:07:01.500 He rises from this, you know, nobody to the white house, this incredible, uh, you know,

01:07:09.420 uh, skyrocketing career path.

01:07:11.960 And he's, he's making a difference in the, in the ways he wants to make a difference.

01:07:15.640 And then just some guy, some talk show host says, you know, brings out a couple of things

01:07:20.340 that I said a long time ago.

01:07:21.460 And now all of a sudden I have to resign.

01:07:23.420 These people were, you know, Van Jones, you know, has gone on to be a, you know, a big,

01:07:27.600 you know, uh, cable news guy and all of these other things.

01:07:30.780 Um, but you know, there are people in those movements who did not take kindly, uh, to you

01:07:37.520 bringing these things up.

01:07:38.580 They were able to, uh, to change the way America looked at itself fundamentally, fundamentally

01:07:45.060 transform America.

01:07:46.560 Um, the things that we experienced at both CNN and Fox that I don't think, I think both

01:07:57.060 of us went in to both of those thinking, ah, there's not some cabal.

01:08:03.160 It's not like that.

01:08:04.660 You know, it's just, they have a different point of view.

01:08:09.320 What was the biggest thing you learned first from CNN?

01:08:14.500 Well, you know, it was interesting that we even got hired there.

01:08:17.440 I mean, I remember thinking there was no chance that was going to actually happen.

01:08:20.280 Um, and they put us on and I was, you know, they were, I bought a house, if I'm not mistaken,

01:08:25.260 before they made the offer.

01:08:27.120 Yes, I believe that's true.

01:08:28.120 We were happy about that, by the way.

01:08:29.480 Uh, that was really exciting for us.

01:08:31.560 Uh, that was, that's the way every move happens.

01:08:33.760 Glenn makes, goes and buys a house before we lock it in.

01:08:36.820 And then we were like, oh, well now we, I guess we have to go home there.

01:08:40.560 Um, yeah, I mean, it was, uh, cause we, there was some conflict internally, I think at that

01:08:46.080 point as to whether a cable news show was the right thing, you know, I mean, we, the

01:08:50.140 show was doing really well on radio.

01:08:51.880 We were growing quickly.

01:08:53.360 You were pretty well known.

01:08:55.020 And I remember thinking like, gosh, really like cable news, like we're going to go on

01:08:58.940 there and do this thing that everybody, you know, that's what you're supposed to do.

01:09:01.420 We all hate it.

01:09:01.980 Yeah.

01:09:02.200 None of us really liked the idea.

01:09:03.840 And I think, I think, you know, looking back in retrospect incorrectly because it was, it

01:09:08.300 was a way to, it really did change the level of your profile.

01:09:12.820 But we changed it.

01:09:14.800 Yeah.

01:09:15.120 No, cause we did something different and we knew we were going to do something different

01:09:17.940 and we weren't going to do it unless, unless we could.

01:09:20.480 I didn't want to go in there and do the same old blah, blah, blah, talking heads type of

01:09:23.800 thing.

01:09:24.560 Um, so when we went into CNN, I mean, I remember doing things that were, it helped shape my

01:09:34.260 understanding of the media in a way.

01:09:35.940 I don't know that like the audience necessarily always connects with and that like, we would

01:09:39.820 do things on the air that were really basic knowledge for the average talk radio listener,

01:09:46.660 you know, things that were like, okay, remember this quote from this guy and you'd bring that

01:09:50.240 up in passing.

01:09:51.500 And especially when we first started, we would get hit from standards and practices, which

01:09:55.640 is like the branch of CNN.

01:09:57.380 This is interesting to me.

01:09:58.440 Most people may not even know this or believe this, but I was on the floor and sometimes it

01:10:03.880 would take us two or three hours to cut an hour long show.

01:10:08.560 Yeah.

01:10:09.000 Um, you should be able to cut an hour long show in about 50 minutes.

01:10:13.340 Yeah.

01:10:13.600 Right.

01:10:14.160 It sometimes took us three hours to cut and I was never privy to the stalls.

01:10:22.000 Yeah.

01:10:22.200 I would just be told, uh, break down the computer or, you know, break down in the control room.

01:10:28.120 This is happening.

01:10:29.120 This is happening.

01:10:29.500 Don't worry.

01:10:30.040 We'll catch it.

01:10:30.780 But you were actually in the control room with standards and practices along with all

01:10:36.240 the others.

01:10:36.940 Yeah.

01:10:37.200 My staff, you know, that worked for Mercury.

01:10:39.880 That was the smartest thing we did.

01:10:42.100 Uh, that we're having to have these battles.

01:10:46.220 Yeah.

01:10:46.360 And they would be like on really basic things like we, you know, cause I talk radio, like

01:10:49.740 there, there's a, these certain things will become part of the conversation and everyone

01:10:55.440 sort of understands them.

01:10:56.360 You don't need to explain them every single time.

01:10:58.500 And we'd make points and they would push back on them.

01:11:00.740 And I'm like, do you not know this?

01:11:03.080 Do you not know this person said this?

01:11:04.680 And that really, that enlightened me into the way the media actually works because, uh, a

01:11:10.220 lot of times they don't know it.

01:11:11.320 You know, a lot of times they will, they're under the, um, they are so in their bubble

01:11:16.500 and have convinced themselves, uh, that they are the only source of valid information.

01:11:23.180 So when these things don't break through to them, they never happened.

01:11:27.260 And a lot of times we'd be able to, to be fair, we'd be able to talk them into it.

01:11:31.860 We'd say like, wait a minute, let me show you this.

01:11:33.660 And we'd have to go back to them.

01:11:34.780 It wasn't like, I don't remember times where we had to change, change scripts or anything

01:11:38.740 like that was just always, they stopped us almost every word, every line, particularly

01:11:44.540 at the beginning, because they didn't know whether to trust you.

01:11:47.400 I mean, if you remember, like we had people like Christiane and Amanpour going to board

01:11:50.900 meetings and basically global broadcast, global broadcasted board meetings and trashing you

01:11:55.700 in front of the company, because how can we be considered a credible news source when

01:11:59.260 we've got this guy hired?

01:12:00.540 We were in that world.

01:12:01.680 Um, and you know, I mean, but we go into the point where we were doing specials on global

01:12:06.360 warming and they wouldn't even find anything wrong.

01:12:10.140 And we got, you know, I think it made us better broadcasters.

01:12:13.640 Totally agree.

01:12:14.180 Because I mean, by the time we went to Fox, we were so buttoned up.

01:12:18.260 Yeah.

01:12:18.600 We didn't need it to be.

01:12:19.900 Yeah.

01:12:20.220 Again, we were dead.

01:12:21.520 We make a mistake over at Fox.

01:12:23.140 We would have been dead.

01:12:24.060 Yeah.

01:12:24.340 God has a plan, right?

01:12:25.240 I mean, because I mean, it was really annoying for a while at CNN for those reasons, because

01:12:31.200 you know, when you're on talk radio, it's a conversation and it's not a scripted news

01:12:38.500 broadcast and, and it's opinion and it's opinion and it is like, excuse the expression, diarrhea

01:12:44.060 of the mouth.

01:12:44.840 Yeah.

01:12:45.280 Right.

01:12:45.520 You're trying to fill three hours and you know, usually you have stuff to say.

01:12:48.360 Sometimes you're kind of like, you're entertaining a new idea for the first time.

01:12:52.920 Um, and especially with somebody like me who thinks out loud.

01:12:56.100 Yeah.

01:12:56.300 Things out loud.

01:12:56.760 And that's how we used to always explain it.

01:12:58.140 We're thinking out loud.

01:12:58.740 I think going to CNN, because they were so strict on every little thing, at least when

01:13:04.980 it came to the conservative side, like, I mean, you know, I don't know how they are.

01:13:09.600 You know, we see a lot of mistakes they're making today.

01:13:11.160 I don't know if things have changed over there.

01:13:12.880 Um, it seems like it.

01:13:14.480 Um, but when we were there, you know, a lot of times it was with good intent.

01:13:17.260 The people think we're making mistakes.

01:13:18.460 They were trying to protect us sometimes. 0.91

01:13:19.640 Sometimes they thought we were just totally nuts.

01:13:21.120 Whenever we'd say anything positive about Israel, uh, we would have it. 0.99

01:13:24.420 They came down really hard, um, and they would always push back from, you know, this, this

01:13:29.380 other side and we'd have to explain it, but it helped us understand that nothing was going

01:13:33.780 to get through unless we were buttoned up.

01:13:35.420 And the same thing I think happened with them in which they at first saw you as this sort

01:13:40.280 of like rogue guy who's in there just spouting nonsense.

01:13:44.340 And after the third, fourth, fifth, 500th, 600th, 700th time, we had to come back to the table

01:13:49.700 and say, this is what it's based on.

01:13:51.540 And you might not agree with the analysis that he's making, but this is factually based.

01:13:55.480 And here's why.

01:13:56.860 Eventually they became to the point where they would trust you a lot more.

01:13:59.420 And it, and only the hardest special we ever did though, was the first special on what

01:14:07.120 was happening in the Islamic world.

01:14:09.380 What was that called?

01:14:10.380 Do you remember?

01:14:11.500 Expose the extremist agenda.

01:14:14.380 And, uh, it beat Bill O'Reilly.

01:14:16.540 That was huge.

01:14:17.160 It was a huge thing.

01:14:18.200 Did not happen on CNN headline news.

01:14:19.700 And had never, uh, been done.

01:14:23.280 Anything like it had never been done.

01:14:24.940 It was before the internet was really powerful.

01:14:27.800 Um, and so a lot of this stuff had never been seen.

01:14:30.980 And that I think is the hardest we ever had to fight for anything on any platform.

01:14:37.140 If there was one single issue that was really difficult, particularly at CNN, it was the

01:14:42.460 Israel, um, Palestinian, um, Islamic extremism, that whole side of it. 0.74

01:14:48.700 You know, and you think of CNN as a really an international organization.

01:14:51.660 They see themselves as not as an American news source, but as an international news source.

01:14:56.240 And, uh, you know, taking in what Al Jazeera was pitching at the time was important, uh,

01:15:01.740 to them apparently.

01:15:02.840 Uh, and so we got in a lot of fights, particularly with the international desk on, on who was right

01:15:07.180 and who was wrong.

01:15:07.800 And they really, you know, my impression of all of that was they really did just believe

01:15:12.880 Israel was wrong and evil and they were doing terrible things. 1.00

01:15:16.240 And so they, that was always the lens.

01:15:18.880 They saw everything.

01:15:19.440 But as long as you don't have to go through the rigors that we had to go through, it's

01:15:25.980 easy to just live there.

01:15:28.060 Yeah.

01:15:28.660 You know what I mean?

01:15:29.160 Exactly.

01:15:29.360 Everybody around you is like, oh yeah.

01:15:31.580 Oh yeah.

01:15:32.100 I mean, you think about the average person who's going to work at CNN, who, you know,

01:15:35.320 goes to some left leaning college and, and learns all of these points as if they're fact

01:15:40.940 from professors, they're not going to challenge it when they get in there.

01:15:44.060 And that's, you know, I think that's changed honestly in the media today where when we were

01:15:48.660 there, I think it was more of that where it was just sort of ingrained in the, in the

01:15:52.860 world.

01:15:53.200 Like it was in, in the works.

01:15:55.440 It got, it had already gummed up the works, everything, you know, it was like you had a,

01:15:59.480 you had a glass of punch and then you pour it out and you try to, you know, pour a glass

01:16:02.660 of milk in there.

01:16:03.180 It's still going to taste a little bit like punch, no matter what happens, it was always

01:16:05.980 going to be flavored that way.

01:16:07.040 It does seem like there's been a change at a lot of these organizations from we're left

01:16:12.380 leaning and trying to tell the truth, but you know, we're definitely leaning and left

01:16:16.360 and you notice it to today, which seems like really straight out left wing advocacy because

01:16:21.320 they believe this one's just too important.

01:16:22.980 No, we had people who we've worked with several people who are left, left wing and they were

01:16:28.800 honest.

01:16:29.580 And when they found out that their side was wrong, they were like, holy cow, wait, why

01:16:33.180 what?

01:16:33.480 Yeah.

01:16:33.920 You know?

01:16:34.880 But they held our feet to the fire, but they were honest.

01:16:37.120 Yeah.

01:16:37.320 I don't know if that happens.

01:16:38.560 I don't know if it does.

01:16:40.040 So do you remember the, when I filled in for Larry King, were you in the control room?

01:16:46.680 Because they were saying to me in my ear as they were counting me down, his producer

01:16:51.960 just said, please, please stick to the script.

01:16:56.280 And I remember saying, as they were about at the count of four, I said, not going to happen.

01:17:03.540 I, that was a, uh, that was amazing because I mean, Larry King at the time was big, was

01:17:09.420 the guy, you know, he, they wanted to get, I guess, some more eyes on you at that time.

01:17:14.660 And they, or, or they felt like desperate, like the homeless guy they had to show up.

01:17:20.960 I don't know.

01:17:21.560 And they put you on and like putting you into that world.

01:17:25.080 Again, it's that clash of cultures, right? 0.91

01:17:27.420 Where the typical person who listens to Larry King every night never hears your opinion,

01:17:34.000 never hears a conservative articulate an opinion.

01:17:36.520 Well, right.

01:17:37.740 All they hear are people spouting the same opinions in the same order over and over and

01:17:42.320 over again.

01:17:43.020 So that was jarring.

01:17:44.460 I'm sure to a lot of people as it was jarring just internally in the CNN culture.

01:17:48.440 People weren't used to hearing people like you.

01:17:50.860 And they, when they, when they heard people like you, it was because of the craziest thing

01:17:54.860 you said in an 18 month, 18 month period.

01:17:57.940 You speaking of that, and then I want to come back to the no script thing.

01:18:01.700 Um, you have always, you are like my work wife, um, well, Tanya, thank you, Tanya sometimes

01:18:14.220 is more mad than I am when people come after me.

01:18:19.140 Yeah.

01:18:19.860 And there have been times where you have been mad.

01:18:26.800 Um, and, uh, and have said, you've looked at me and said, I'm answering it.

01:18:34.800 I'm answering.

01:18:35.380 I'm like, don't, it's not a big deal.

01:18:37.080 Don't know.

01:18:37.960 Got to answer it.

01:18:39.620 Any of those pop to your head, the one that pops to my head that still bothers me today

01:18:45.840 deeply.

01:18:46.760 Um, and nothing can be done because the individual is no longer with us is the Breitbart, Shirley

01:18:56.100 Sherrod craziness.

01:18:59.500 Hmm.

01:19:00.260 Gosh, that was a, that's a throwback.

01:19:02.460 Yeah, no, that was a, that was a weird one because a lot of these fights were, cause I

01:19:06.020 could think of like you getting in a fight with, um, someone like, uh, I think it was

01:19:10.020 Freed Zakaria maybe about, you said about 10% of, uh, Islam, uh, have terrorists or terrorist

01:19:16.580 sympathies.

01:19:17.480 And you got just lit up by the media over that.

01:19:21.660 And I just remember going through and just proving it with poll after poll.

01:19:25.840 It's like 45% in many regions.

01:19:27.340 It's much, much higher than that.

01:19:28.820 And, you know, going by the dictionary definition of the word terrorism, we like, I remember

01:19:34.240 spending hours and hours just lighting that up and you were completely, you know, completely

01:19:37.920 right on that.

01:19:38.560 I mean, I remember going back and forth with, uh, uh, uh, Obama's, uh, spiritual advisor,

01:19:42.740 um, uh, about, uh, about leaving your church and, and, and, uh, uh, social justice, social

01:19:51.860 justice.

01:19:52.200 Right.

01:19:52.460 And going through and I had to write something for the Washington post about, uh, about one

01:19:56.340 of their sites about, um, you know, what social justice was, where did it come from?

01:20:00.640 Here's the actual history of it.

01:20:01.980 Why aren't they telling you that?

01:20:03.420 Um, and, and those things were like, some of them blew up into massive controversies to the

01:20:07.760 point where we were constantly, you know, you hear about them all the time from not

01:20:10.420 only listeners and everything else, but like companies and, and, you know, every getting

01:20:15.220 inquiries from media organizations.

01:20:16.600 And that stuff was like, it became in the Fox era, a real big part of our job, pushing

01:20:21.240 back against that stuff.

01:20:22.540 Um, and wound up being, you know, fighting back to make sure that people, they didn't

01:20:26.680 successfully paint you as this lunatic, right?

01:20:31.480 Like just saying crazy things all the time because that's what they wanted to do. 0.94

01:20:34.700 That was their out.

01:20:35.440 This was their sort of, you know, the, a well worn path where they would be able to kind

01:20:41.980 of take a conservative who was rising, get rid of them.

01:20:46.180 So you never have to hear them again.

01:20:47.040 You can always easily dismiss what they're saying because they're a conspiracy theorist 0.79

01:20:50.220 or a lunatic or whatever.

01:20:51.320 And that became a big part of what we had to do, particularly in that period.

01:20:55.220 The, the, the, the Shirley Sherrod thing was a weird one because, um, and we still hear

01:20:59.420 about that occasionally from, uh, people who, well, it is the, it is the separation from

01:21:05.660 a lot of people.

01:21:06.800 I mean, originally with me and Ben Shapiro, I mean, this is a long time ago, me and Ben

01:21:11.420 Shapiro, uh, uh, Dana Lash.

01:21:14.840 I mean, people that were working there at the time, it was a really big deal.

01:21:18.760 It was a very big deal.

01:21:20.320 And they hated me at first until we sat down and we talked.

01:21:24.940 Yeah.

01:21:25.240 Yeah.

01:21:25.680 But Andrew and I never had that opportunity.

01:21:27.840 No, no.

01:21:28.400 I mean, Andrew was, uh, obviously a, you know, uh, a huge personality, right.

01:21:33.420 And he did a lot of things that, uh, you know, were pretty remarkable.

01:21:36.820 Um, and so, and we had a good relationship with him.

01:21:39.660 He had broken a couple of his big stories on the show.

01:21:43.200 Um, he had, um, uh, you know, some of those big, like the James O'Keefe stuff that was

01:21:48.420 happening at the time of the very beginning of that.

01:21:50.580 Um, you know, we were tied into that and he was coming on the show and some of the people

01:21:54.360 he was with were coming on the show.

01:21:55.500 So, so he had a good relationship with him and, and, and found the stuff that he had

01:21:58.700 been doing to be, you know, pretty trustworthy.

01:22:01.960 Like it was, it all seemed to be, I mean, we all, you know, if I remember, if I remember

01:22:05.760 right, because of our experience at CNN, we knew if we didn't have everything buttoned

01:22:11.400 up ourselves, we were in trouble.

01:22:13.940 And so the, the trouble is, uh, um, uh, Andrew had done all of this work on acorn and we

01:22:22.120 were on acorn, but he had the goods to crack it open and he had called me, I don't remember

01:22:29.520 even when.

01:22:30.400 And he said, I remember I was on a boat, might've been July 4th.

01:22:34.400 I was in the New York Harbor on a boat and he called me and he said, I have this stuff

01:22:40.440 explosive and it's explosive and I said, can you get it to me?

01:22:45.340 And he said, yeah, do you want it Monday?

01:22:47.960 And I said, yeah, if it is what you say it is, yes.

01:22:51.420 And I asked at that time, I need the unedited tape.

01:22:55.700 You remember this?

01:22:57.140 And so he said, I'll get it to you.

01:22:59.180 Then he had one, then he had another one and he had a third one.

01:23:02.260 And by the time we got to the fourth one, I still hadn't had the unedited tape and you

01:23:08.560 and everybody else breathing down my neck going and Joel Cheatwood saying, we got to

01:23:14.620 have the unedited tape.

01:23:16.220 I believe him.

01:23:17.320 But if we don't have the unedited tape, we don't know what's real.

01:23:22.780 Right.

01:23:23.540 And so then we got the tape of Shirley Sherrod and I believed it.

01:23:28.760 Yeah.

01:23:29.260 So that one, I don't remember us being tied into it beforehand.

01:23:33.460 Maybe we were.

01:23:34.340 No, it was in the, but it was in the morning, the morning that it was over the morning that,

01:23:40.880 you know, by five o'clock it had, it had collapsed.

01:23:44.380 Yeah.

01:23:44.640 So it was, it was posted on a site and we had just found his stuff to be generally reliable

01:23:48.640 and we didn't have the full report and we kind of hit it briefly.

01:23:53.180 I think at the end of an hour, it's kind of a throw in like this Obama official said something

01:23:57.820 I think we hit it.

01:23:59.460 I think we hit it harder than that.

01:24:00.640 Cause I remember going into Joel's office and saying, is this real?

01:24:03.960 And he says, it looks like it.

01:24:06.260 I'm on the phone with the people that know the videotape, know the full videotape, know

01:24:12.560 the speech.

01:24:13.560 And he's like, I think so.

01:24:15.400 And I think I said, join us at five.

01:24:17.960 We'll have a lot on this.

01:24:19.600 And I thought we were going to fall with Breitbart at that time.

01:24:25.140 Yeah.

01:24:25.420 And, and, um, you know, we, once we got to the break, I remember, I remember going off

01:24:30.620 the air and we hit, this is the time Pat and I are doing the, what was at the time called

01:24:33.880 the fourth hour where we would do an hour after the show.

01:24:36.800 And, uh, I remember just thinking about it and just listening to the tape and it just,

01:24:40.440 it just seemed weird.

01:24:41.540 It just seemed like they're so obviously wrong.

01:24:44.100 It seemed out of context, like we were missing context on it.

01:24:47.600 Um, and so we went on, I remember going on the fourth hour and saying like, I think there's

01:24:51.300 something like, I want to know what's, what's after this.

01:24:53.900 And we eventually were able to track down what she said after it.

01:24:56.400 And at this point, I don't even remember what it was, but it was something basically like

01:24:58.920 she, she really wasn't saying the thing that was insinuated in the headlines.

01:25:04.300 Um, and it was kind of, I, you know, probably our mistake to even mention it, you know, without

01:25:08.560 that.

01:25:08.900 But at the time we had never seen an issue with a Breitbart story or anything like that.

01:25:12.340 So we kind of assumed, uh, that it wouldn't be reported if it wasn't in complete context.

01:25:17.980 Um, and, uh, we got off and I remember questioning that on the fourth hour, which is not broadcast

01:25:23.700 to the nation.

01:25:24.380 It was just broadcast to subscribers.

01:25:26.420 And the white house fired Shirley Sherrod.

01:25:29.740 Yeah, that's right.

01:25:30.440 And so you, you're like, okay, it was like, obviously this must be really bad.

01:25:33.680 And I remember about halfway.

01:25:35.080 Pat and I were talking about it and we were questioning it.

01:25:36.940 And then you came in on the fourth hour and started saying like, yeah, this doesn't seem

01:25:40.840 right.

01:25:41.560 And we kept tracking it down.

01:25:42.520 Eventually got to the point where we realized, okay, the context is wrong here.

01:25:46.480 She really didn't say that.

01:25:48.200 And it was kind of the opposite.

01:25:50.080 It was like a, I can't remember.

01:25:51.300 She was explaining a story like someone else's opinion or something.

01:25:54.220 I don't even remember exactly what it was.

01:25:56.060 Um, but I do remember thinking to myself, like immediately we get off the air.

01:25:59.520 We, we kind of go through that process of trying to understand the story kind of come

01:26:02.360 on the side of like, well, it's not, not as stated, but we never were like critical

01:26:05.900 of Breitbart over it because, you know, Breitbart was like, uh, you know, he was kind of a big,

01:26:11.660 you know, it was conservative, like a big name in the conservative circles.

01:26:14.880 We had a relationship with him.

01:26:16.440 We had no real reason to believe it was anything intentional or anything like that.

01:26:19.580 It just seemed like it might've been a mistake.

01:26:21.620 Um, and my, if my recollection is right, he thought we set him up or something like

01:26:26.860 that.

01:26:27.120 Yeah.

01:26:27.460 And I remember the only reason we did go on the air and we hit it hard that she should

01:26:32.400 not have been fired and this story was wrong because that's who, that's what we've always

01:26:38.660 believed in.

01:26:39.620 Right.

01:26:39.800 If we say something or if we don't want to take scalps to count scalps, we want it to be

01:26:46.400 right.

01:26:47.280 Yeah.

01:26:47.560 And I think, um, there was, you know, look, it was a, probably a very intense time for

01:26:52.440 them.

01:26:52.860 Yeah.

01:26:53.080 And so he saw us maybe as dogpiling.

01:26:55.420 Right.

01:26:55.820 That's probably true.

01:26:56.660 And like, you know, I, uh, I do remember though, um, you know, the reason why we even

01:27:02.380 mentioned it is because we actually thought he was credible.

01:27:05.540 Like it was actually, I always thought it was a strange way that got spun by, um, you

01:27:10.200 know, some people in sort of the conservative media who didn't like us that, you know, you

01:27:15.820 were out there trying to take down Breitbart or like it really was the opposite of that.

01:27:19.560 I mean, I, you know, um, I know eventually like it wound up kind of blowing up into a thing

01:27:23.600 and you guys never really did, uh, you know, uh, make up on that one.

01:27:27.660 Um, but I've always found it to be a strange sort of, uh, story because, you know, look,

01:27:34.540 the bottom line is, and it's, it's almost part of that sort of extreme sort of, uh, partisanship

01:27:39.640 thing, teams and tribes that we're in now.

01:27:42.140 And that like a lot of people looked at that as whether we were right or wrong, we shouldn't

01:27:47.260 be critical of our own side.

01:27:49.440 And it's like, well, we were, I didn't even look at that as being critical of them for

01:27:52.760 like, you know, I, I didn't think the story was presented correctly that time, but

01:27:56.040 like whatever, like, you know, think about it now there was, you know, there's a million

01:27:59.560 stories that come out every day and a lot of them are, are, are presented incorrectly.

01:28:03.940 It was, it's, you know, it's not that big of a deal.

01:28:05.900 You go back, you look at it, you correct what you got wrong.

01:28:07.940 You say what you got right.

01:28:08.940 I mean, it's not that big of a deal, but people look at it as this weird, like loyalty

01:28:12.400 thing.

01:28:12.820 It's like, you know, it's like you're at the meme and you're with your girlfriend and you're

01:28:15.940 turning around checking out the girl behind her and, and she's horrified.

01:28:19.060 It's like, whether it's the context or the content is right.

01:28:22.480 People look at it as this like lack of loyalty.

01:28:24.820 And it's like, to me, like I, you know, you can't get sucked into that when it comes

01:28:30.000 to parties, right?

01:28:31.940 You have to only do it when it comes to the truth.

01:28:33.760 And I think it makes you more credible when you say, Hey, our side blew it on this one,

01:28:37.400 but we were right on these other 25 things.

01:28:39.180 You're going to look at those two.

01:28:40.460 Let me ask you, let me just, I'm just going to go through these cause we're going to run

01:28:43.540 out of time.

01:28:44.740 Let me just, if you have any thoughts on these, otherwise just say pass.

01:28:48.840 Deterioration of the Fox news relationship in 2009.

01:28:50.820 2009, we never got to also what you learned from Fox, what you took away.

01:28:55.820 Cause you were not, it was the opposite of CNN.

01:28:58.920 You were not allowed in any of the, most my staff was not allowed in the big meetings

01:29:06.580 that I had.

01:29:07.340 So I was going in and you guys were waiting like, good God, what's going to happen now?

01:29:11.340 Yes.

01:29:11.720 Yes.

01:29:11.880 It was a different, we were, we did most of the show outside of, we did not go to their

01:29:15.520 building.

01:29:16.480 It was separate.

01:29:17.220 The one thing I would think that one thing I think people get wrong all the time is that

01:29:20.800 you were, they wanted you back.

01:29:23.840 They offered you a contract to continue to do the show.

01:29:27.240 We should look in our files, see if we have that.

01:29:28.940 I know.

01:29:29.520 Interesting.

01:29:29.960 Yeah.

01:29:30.180 We, we wanted to leave.

01:29:31.620 We felt it was the right time to leave.

01:29:33.720 Sort of.

01:29:34.940 We really struggled on that.

01:29:36.140 I questioned that one a lot just because I thought, I thought we had, I thought one

01:29:39.160 more contract was probably the right move for a long time because, uh, you know, two

01:29:43.300 more years because it probably would have, because we were on the blaze was on the bleeding

01:29:47.580 edge.

01:29:48.000 We were too, I thought we were too early with the technology for enough people to be able

01:29:52.080 to come over and just get their internet TV from the internet.

01:29:55.120 People was buffering and our audience didn't know what the heck it was.

01:29:58.080 What do you mean?

01:29:58.320 I got to buy what?

01:29:59.120 And a Roku and sign up for what?

01:30:01.060 And like way too early.

01:30:01.800 It was so early.

01:30:02.620 So I felt like, you know, but I, I think that the, the relationship,

01:30:06.140 had deteriorated in a way that it probably wasn't plausible, but I always was hoping

01:30:10.020 we could get a couple more years there before we did something like this.

01:30:13.680 And you probably would have been right.

01:30:15.140 I think what I'm getting from this podcast is I should listen to you because you probably

01:30:19.000 would have, you probably would have been right.

01:30:21.160 That's what I just, I just saw the, I saw the opportunity, uh, at the blaze.

01:30:27.940 I just, you know, I'm, I'm really bad at timing.

01:30:31.220 Yeah.

01:30:31.600 You were ahead.

01:30:32.040 I mean, look, you were ahead of the game now.

01:30:33.300 That's the, even cables collapsing, you know, all that's really happening.

01:30:37.900 And that's what I was saying at the time.

01:30:38.880 Oh yeah.

01:30:39.060 It's all going to burn to the ground.

01:30:40.420 And you were right, but it was pretty early.

01:30:42.200 Um, the tough times at the blaze, it was tough.

01:30:47.320 Yeah. 0.72

01:30:47.900 You know, some of that really sucked.

01:30:49.600 I have to tell you, thank you for being my friend and thank you for being so loyal to

01:30:58.240 me and, um, not, not so loyal that you wouldn't tell me the truth or you wouldn't, you were.

01:31:06.160 But I never, ever had to doubt about you and Pat.

01:31:11.000 And it was hard because we, the knives were out for us.

01:31:16.100 Yeah.

01:31:16.520 All around.

01:31:17.000 Oh, thank you for that.

01:31:18.220 And the same as well.

01:31:19.640 Um, you know, it was, that was really hard.

01:31:21.320 I mean, for a lot of reasons, I mean, you know, um, we had, it grew really fast and, uh, you

01:31:27.740 know, uh, it's always bad.

01:31:29.040 We went from 50 employees to 300 in like six, six months.

01:31:32.740 Really fast on a lot of, you know, like a lot of really understandable decisions.

01:31:35.780 And, you know, and like we had a lot of people were here that were, were, you know, are no

01:31:41.400 longer here.

01:31:41.960 And I love a lot of them, you know, I mean, to this day.

01:31:45.040 And then, so it was really hard to have people leave.

01:31:47.820 Uh, it was, you know, it was a lot of that stuff really sucked to be honest about it.

01:31:51.400 Um, you know, because like, unlike, you know, you could certainly, I've been to worked at

01:31:55.980 plenty of places where you people leave and they come and you're like, you know, whatever.

01:31:59.600 But this is, you know, this was something we all built sort of together to, so to see like

01:32:03.660 a lot of the, of the, the big names and faces from the past leave really sucked and was really

01:32:10.220 hard for a long time.

01:32:11.240 I mean, you know, look, as we always say with the economy, right?

01:32:13.520 Like people go and they find other things that they're, that they do and they're, and

01:32:17.300 they're happier now, I'm sure for it.

01:32:18.820 I'm thrilled at how, I mean, look at how much success, so much success has come from those

01:32:24.240 people who, who were really nobodies when they joined us.

01:32:28.880 I'm not saying we built them, but gave them their, their chance to grow into

01:32:33.540 themselves.

01:32:34.100 And it's amazing how many people you're like, well, they used to be with the blaze and they

01:32:38.200 were with the blaze and they were on air, off air.

01:32:40.420 I mean, we've seen this all over the place and that's one of the, the best things that's

01:32:43.300 come out of that.

01:32:43.860 It just, you know, at times it's sucked to go through.

01:32:46.420 I'll tell you that.

01:32:46.900 The, uh, Warner brothers, uh, pilot that's never been, do they, I don't think so.

01:32:53.160 Warner brothers came to us, big name at Warner brothers came to us and said, want you to

01:32:57.680 do a pilot, uh, uh, an Ellen style pilot.

01:33:01.460 Yeah.

01:33:02.020 Which is funny because I mean, of course that's a big part of your personality too, that,

01:33:05.980 uh, people like to overlook because you like lower taxes and things like that.

01:33:10.520 Um, but yeah, we did a pilot for Warner brothers.

01:33:12.920 Um, that was going to be a daytime, uh, for sure.

01:33:15.900 I mean, they were like, this thing's going to sell like gangbusters.

01:33:18.800 Yeah.

01:33:19.020 And it was really, I mean, it was really good.

01:33:20.780 Like it was, it did came out great and would have been an interesting addition to that landscape

01:33:25.320 because there's no, there would be nothing like it.

01:33:27.700 Uh, but it never really got over the hump of, you know, Glenn Beck set this thing in 2003,

01:33:34.100 you know, it never really got there.

01:33:35.540 So understand that really, um, shocked that the animated pilot written by one of the best

01:33:45.460 writers, he's, he produces stuff all the time.

01:33:48.000 Were you in that meeting?

01:33:48.800 Oh yeah.

01:33:49.000 Yeah.

01:33:49.680 A guy who, uh, every show he works on, you know, its name, like it was one of the biggest

01:33:55.060 guys.

01:33:55.440 And, and, you know, like we got to pretty serious discussions about it.

01:33:58.400 And the fact of like, think of like a, almost like a family guy with Glenn Beck as Peter Griffin.

01:34:02.560 Yeah.

01:34:02.960 And my next door neighbor was going to be Bob Saget.

01:34:05.560 Yeah.

01:34:05.980 I wasn't, but yeah, there's a couple of names that were in that role.

01:34:09.020 I remember Bob Saget being one of them.

01:34:10.960 Um, that would have been an amazing show.

01:34:13.140 Um, and you know, it's another one of those things that I don't know.

01:34:15.740 I mean, like it could that have been a really, I mean, that would have been really funny.

01:34:20.040 Um, because you know, you, unlike a lot of hosts and a lot of people in media, like you 0.77

01:34:24.420 are willing to get the crap beat out of you, especially if it's going to make people laugh.

01:34:28.220 Oh, it's funny. 0.90

01:34:28.800 Yeah.

01:34:29.040 I mean, it's like you, I'll be a punching bag all day long for funny.

01:34:32.140 Whenever we do like, um, you know, a museum here or we have doing these appearances where

01:34:35.560 we're meeting a lot of listeners, a lot of them are like, you'd say, I mean, you're tough

01:34:38.680 on Glenn sometimes.

01:34:39.500 And I'm like, he loves it.

01:34:40.600 Like he, I, we get off the air and Glenn is the one encouraging me to go further.

01:34:44.480 Um, you know, and that, that's been one of the things that's been really fun about that.

01:34:47.280 It's like, you, you know, that you sense it, you know, Jeffy is the same way, right?

01:34:51.300 Like Jeffy knows that, you know, him getting beat up is a, is a, uh, a good thing.

01:34:56.220 At least that's how I sleep at night.

01:34:57.560 Um, and, uh, but it's true.

01:35:00.700 Like if you can get yourself in that mindset and it's happened to me, it's happened to Pat.

01:35:03.740 We all get in that place where you're the guy that day that's getting, uh, you know, getting,

01:35:07.620 uh, the foot on.

01:35:08.780 I've always loved the fact that we could be in one break punching me real hard and triangulating

01:35:14.780 one person.

01:35:15.720 And then the next very next break, it all of a sudden just goes and wait a minute, I'm on

01:35:20.240 the receipt.

01:35:20.680 How did that happen?

01:35:21.420 How did that happen?

01:35:21.700 It's sometimes in the middle of a conversation.

01:35:22.860 Um, I, I want to ask you, made a, you know, I started with your, your resume, which is

01:35:35.240 a joke and you'll never work in this business again.

01:35:39.120 Although I've had an offer from seven 11 that I know writer, producer, performer, analyst.

01:35:47.800 What would you add to the list of what you think you're good at?

01:35:54.360 I think you're the, you're the, by far the best radio writer, maybe one of the best, um,

01:36:00.560 writers in the country.

01:36:02.780 Most people don't know that.

01:36:04.820 Um, producer, uh, you don't like confrontation, but you are one of the, you, I think you are,

01:36:11.300 I know you are the best radio producer in the country, um, performer, uh, and yeah, we'll

01:36:22.180 see.

01:36:22.500 And, and analyst, you are, there's just nobody better because you live stats.

01:36:29.240 I do.

01:36:30.120 Yeah.

01:36:30.500 What would you add to that list?

01:36:32.560 And how would you prioritize that list?

01:36:34.940 What are you first?

01:36:36.180 That's a great question.

01:36:39.020 I, I have, I don't know.

01:36:40.980 I mean, I think, I think all of those things, and this goes to not only writing, but producing

01:36:47.400 and, uh, and even the comedy stuff comes from analysis, right?

01:36:53.360 Like the analyst thing is something where I think you, you're always looking at taking

01:36:58.080 a situation, trying to break it down into its fundamental elements, and then you can rebuild

01:37:01.440 it in whatever way you want.

01:37:03.120 Um, and that comes to, you can build it into a joke, you can build it into a point, you

01:37:06.960 can, you know, it's understanding, you know, like, like understanding the relationships between

01:37:12.680 people when you're, when you're, you know, producing a show, you're met, you know, having

01:37:17.540 to manage a bunch of different people with a bunch of different personalities and you

01:37:20.800 have to understand how to kind of make those personalities work.

01:37:23.860 Sometimes you do have to be tough on them.

01:37:25.500 Sometimes you have to be understanding and move them in a different way.

01:37:28.580 I think a lot of that comes back to that same fundamental thing.

01:37:31.140 And I think it's a, um, you know, we did that thing with the Jonathan height thing.

01:37:36.240 Remember that?

01:37:36.860 And we went through and we read the book and we, we, we interviewed him and, you know,

01:37:40.800 and he breaks down the mind, uh, and the, and the ways that people think.

01:37:45.620 And that is, I would always come out when they had those little things, they always come

01:37:49.700 out on that analysis sort of side because, you know, this is something that goes back to

01:37:55.740 when I enter a room, I'm, I'm taking it in.

01:37:59.800 I'm trying to understand the dynamics that are going on.

01:38:02.080 What is this, you know, where, you know, where does this person think?

01:38:05.300 Where's, what's the right place to, to, to, to be or the best way to make this point.

01:38:09.380 And I think that that is, we all do that at some level.

01:38:12.940 Um, but I think that's kind of the, the way I approach those issues.

01:38:16.800 And I, you know, with this new show, I think it's going to be a big part of it, right?

01:38:20.400 Like, you know, one of the things I think we do really well is taking a, you know, a

01:38:26.220 complicated story and trying to break that down so that everybody can kind of take it

01:38:30.480 in easily and understand it and, and when their arguments on Facebook and when they're

01:38:35.260 at their offices.

01:38:36.500 Um, and you know, that is, I think like taking that, taking those issues, breaking them down,

01:38:41.920 explaining exactly how, not only that there's, that they're lying, but how they're lying,

01:38:47.660 why they're lying this way, who they're trying to move by using this type, type of, you know,

01:38:51.860 terminology.

01:38:53.000 Um, how do we fight back against that with people who might not understand the basics 1.00

01:38:57.720 that we all think we get, you know, they might come at it from a completely different perspective.

01:39:01.360 How do you move those people?

01:39:02.560 All those things I think are important.

01:39:04.080 And if you don't sit there and really understand the landscape you're going up against or the

01:39:08.620 place, the room that you're in, you're not going to be able to do that well.

01:39:11.180 But being C3PO, you know, the chances of survival, especially doing that logically, doing it with

01:39:18.840 real stats, having it really backed up.

01:39:22.420 Yeah.

01:39:22.920 Uh, I mean, it's one of the reasons why most people don't know they're surprised now, which

01:39:27.940 is kind of sad on how, when meeting me, how funny, um, you know, I am or my family and,

01:39:37.580 and they don't expect that.

01:39:40.260 And it's because I've intentionally, cause it's not worth the price of admission.

01:39:47.740 However, it is worth the price to be able to affect people because you can do it, but

01:39:58.020 you're going to also be on YouTube with a large audience.

01:40:01.460 Now on YouTube, you ready for the, were you ready for it to be you?

01:40:07.960 I mean, one of the joys of working with you all this time is that I got to watch you take

01:40:14.080 all the arrows and then that was, it's, it's actually, it's true.

01:40:18.620 You said to me once, I don't want to ever be you.

01:40:21.620 No, I don't.

01:40:22.740 I don't.

01:40:23.240 For many reasons.

01:40:23.980 I mean, thousands.

01:40:24.360 People think it's, oh, I'd love to do that.

01:40:26.020 That's great.

01:40:26.760 That's, you know, you make so much money.

01:40:28.860 No, you, you do, but you pay a very high price.

01:40:32.580 Yeah.

01:40:32.720 Well, you do if you succeed.

01:40:34.140 I mean, you know, but that's, that was at the end of a very long road for us, you know?

01:40:39.100 Um, you know, I, I think that is, that is, uh, daunting in some ways, you know?

01:40:44.620 I mean, cause I've seen it happen to you and I don't, I don't want to be even Crowder. 0.99

01:40:47.840 Oh yeah.

01:40:48.120 God, the stuff that Crowder goes through is, is insanity.

01:40:50.640 And sanity, um, part of it is like, you know, you don't get into, you don't go into the

01:40:54.920 circus to walk on a tight rope to stay a foot off the ground.

01:40:58.200 Right.

01:40:58.560 So like, you know, you want to be able to take on those challenges.

01:41:01.140 Why?

01:41:01.720 One of the reasons I'm here.

01:41:02.840 I mean, like, you know, we've been doing this together for a very long time.

01:41:06.300 Um, but like that is, I think part of it, you know?

01:41:10.600 And part of it is, I think you have to look at, at making sure that, you know, you are able 0.92

01:41:17.500 to be consistent with who you are, um, while not being, you know, flippant and ridiculous.

01:41:24.440 Like it's easy to score points saying certain things that, uh, you know, with your own audience 0.68

01:41:29.820 that, you know, like that are maybe not so buttoned up, or maybe they're the, the, the

01:41:34.480 taking what you have and going a little further than what you have.

01:41:37.420 And, and, you know, you've seen a lot of voices, I think in conservative media and certainly

01:41:41.200 on the left who have just basically made their careers on being the person on Twitter who

01:41:45.820 says the most explosive thing.

01:41:47.880 And I've always felt one of the reasons the show has worked for a long time is we've never

01:41:52.240 treated our audience as if they want to read the weekly world news, right?

01:41:56.160 We've treated them as they, they wanted that they're intelligent and they want to actually

01:42:00.020 know.

01:42:01.080 They actually believe at the end of the day, even if it comes up, uh, on, uh, as part of

01:42:06.780 the argument that doesn't back up where they are, they still want to know.

01:42:10.440 And if they, if you have a relationship with them, where, as you've done over the years,

01:42:13.900 be honest with them about the things, uh, that you care about, be honest about where

01:42:17.980 you are, you're able to say, uh, you know, to the audience, look, you might not agree with

01:42:22.980 me here, but I think because of our relationship, uh, you'll take what I'm saying seriously.

01:42:29.260 And, you know, worst comes to worst, you're going to have an entertaining time listening

01:42:32.240 to it.

01:42:32.660 You might totally disagree at the end of the day, but at least you're going to, you're

01:42:35.280 going to understand it.

01:42:36.180 And that's on us as well to do the same thing with the audience as, as you kind of talked about

01:42:39.660 earlier, we had to take where they're coming from seriously as well.

01:42:42.140 Stu does America now on YouTube and the blaze.

01:42:48.300 And, uh, I've seen you white walk the tightrope before, and, uh, I've never seen you fall, but 0.99

01:42:57.540 it's an honor to be your unused safety net on this venture.

01:43:01.800 Well, thank you.

01:43:02.620 It's going to be great.

01:43:03.280 And I, I plan a, uh, a devastating fall from grace for ratings.

01:43:08.040 If the show's not working about six months in, I'm willing to provide those.

01:43:11.900 Okay, good.

01:43:12.520 Because you're good at them.

01:43:13.260 Yeah, I am.

01:43:13.740 I've been doing them forever.

01:43:14.360 Thank you, Stu.

01:43:14.820 Thank you.

01:43:15.000 Thank you.

01:43:15.480 Thank you.

01:43:20.620 Thank you.

The Glenn Beck Program - January 18, 2020

Ep 63 ｜ Tales from 20 Years of Being Glenn’s 'Work Wife' ｜ Stu Burguiere ｜ The Glenn Beck Podcast

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