On this episode of the podcast, the man that found himself directly in the crosshairs of the Deep State, it all began with the lies about Carter Page. By the end of January 2017, Carter Page was under investigation by the Federal Bureau of Investigation, the Central Intelligence Agency, the National Security Agency, and the Financial Crimes Enforcement Network. And in the end, he was not accused of one single crime.
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00:09:42.320At all levels of the government and all aspects of society as well.
00:09:47.580There are also people that are still looking to crush the United States, just like there are hawks over here that would like to go in.
00:09:54.940I mean, you know, the night that Trump bombed or Iran bombed, you know, our troops, I heard a lot of people on the right going, we've got to go in and take their oil fields and everything.
00:10:21.440Well, it's you know, there's kind of hawks, you know, hawks versus dove issues.
00:10:26.800I think it's a little bit of a separate issue, and I think you can kind of achieve things on both front vis-a-vis this the broader question, which we were, you know, first talking about of relationships.
00:10:40.980Yeah, right. And I look, I think this is similarly another guy who's, you know, still currently dealing with a lot of a lot of things right now is General Flynn.
00:10:52.080Right. And he had, I think I don't want to misquote him, but one of the premises of his worldview and his sort of national security strategy, you know, his concepts that he was he's talked about and has written about going back many years.
00:11:07.700Is these this country, Russia, can be a an ally in terms of that exact in a Middle East context and a lot of other contexts.
00:11:19.660So. So. I wasn't planning on going here, but I have to just ask this question, but you do believe that the Russians because they announced this beforehand.
00:11:32.380I was talking about this in 2014 that they wanted to disrupt our elections.
00:11:39.000I don't think they wanted to have Trump or Clinton.
00:11:43.620They don't care. They just would like to sow the seeds of chaos, at least, you know, some of them as the government.
00:11:54.020And we have we have evidence that they did that.
00:11:57.240You agree with that. Let me tell you about the evidence I know for sure and what we've been talking about in terms of these FISA warrants.
00:12:07.420The evidence we have is that a lot of this, the impact in meddling in the election.
00:12:15.700I'm not saying impact. I'm saying that that was their intent.
00:12:18.800I'm not saying I'm not saying that they did metal or they changed anything.
00:12:23.900What I'm saying is we've done a better job on sowing chaos inside of our own country by using a failed attempt to influence our election.
00:12:38.920And I think they kind of knew. I think Putin's really smart.
00:12:43.160I think he kind of knew all I have to do is do these little things and they'll eat it up.
00:12:47.920The Democrats, I when did they start hating Russia?
00:12:52.320They hated Donald Trump. They hated Donald Trump.
00:12:56.500And we've done the damage. I'm not saying they threw the election.
00:12:59.900I'm saying they put enough out and then our media and we just consumed it in a way of doing the damage they couldn't do.
00:13:10.960Well, let's be specific right there on.
00:13:15.260Early January, two weeks before the inauguration, they had this director of national intelligence Russia report, which came out.
00:13:23.960Clapper, Comey, Brennan, these guys, you know, now big sort of media stars or, you know, book authors for Mr. Comey.
00:13:34.160And there were two main conclusions in broad terms in in that in that report.
00:13:41.000Number one, there was hacking related to the election.
00:13:45.440And the other part, and it's kind of towards the end, although it's parts of it or there's an appendix at the end of the of that document, which talks about government propaganda.
00:13:58.460Right. In each of those two, those two allegations, that is precisely what the DNC and the Obama administration did to the Trump campaign.
00:14:10.080And in conjunction, you know, that was that was the other part of this to me is Russia played a role.
00:14:19.580They stated it in advance what they were going to do.
00:14:23.160And and the DN and Trump was not connected to any of that.
00:14:28.800And the DNC was connected to, I think, stuff that was much worse in the long run with Ukrainians.
00:14:37.800You know, anybody who could cause chaos wants to cause chaos, if it's especially if it's in their own interest.
00:14:44.260It was in the they thought the interest of of the Ukrainians to get Hillary Clinton in.
00:15:20.560I'm always very cautious, Glenn, of talking about things that I don't really know and have all the facts about.
00:15:27.400And, you know, look, I think this is part of the reason what we see about with respect to this impeachment thing right now, because there's so much confusion and chaos and incomplete information.
00:15:39.880Right. A lot of this, you know, I think the jury's still out.
00:15:43.860You know, we don't there's a lot more that we need to know.
00:15:46.500And, you know, we're even as you know, sort of these pieces are starting to come together and we start getting some of this information.
00:15:54.120I think we may have a better sense of things.
00:15:56.600So I'm always very cautious about, you know, coming to conclusions.
00:16:01.060All I do know is, you know, in a Russia context.
00:16:04.520And again, going back to that DNI report two weeks before the inauguration, which was effectively a U.S. government slash Obama administration smear campaign against President Trump or President-elect Trump, you know, in the lead up to him, you know, being sworn in.
00:16:24.120So let's let's let's start with the day it got real for you.
00:16:38.440The day is coffin Yahoo comes out with a story that says you're a Russian plant, you're a Russian spy, you have connections with the Kremlin, you're part of this coordination, you're you are a bad guy.
00:17:19.220I never had a Wikipedia page, you know, within hours of this, you know, they they have a Wikipedia page on that, you know, using that as the basis.
00:17:28.660Right. This is kind of, you know, one of the you are, you know, this is the defining moment of this, you know, previously completely unknown guy.
00:17:37.260Right. But I think it's important, you know, to and it speaks to your point a little bit.
00:17:43.040And the months prior, I actually got a lot of phone calls from journalists.
00:17:51.640First one was with The Wall Street Journal.
00:17:53.960Someone from The Wall Street Journal calls me back in July.
00:17:56.720Right. Asking about these same false allegations, which the DNC's consultants were trying to spread to try to, you know, this opposite, quote unquote, opposition research against then candidate Trump.
00:18:11.380And the calls continued over the following months. Washington Post.
00:18:16.260Nobody reports on it. No one reports on it.
00:18:20.800Well, number one, not verify. But but, you know, in fairness to those other media organizations, whether it's The Wall Street Journal, even New York Times and The Washington Post, CNN.
00:18:32.060When they're asking me about this, you know, they it's they're being professional journalists, you know, to maybe, you know, again, like we were saying, there's no one's perfect.
00:18:43.100But they took steps to try to, you know, do things in a professional way.
00:18:49.360And this guy, Mr. Isikoff, you know, never talked to him and I never I never spoken with him.
00:19:11.920You know, the guy in terms of positive impact on the on any presidential campaign, someone who's putting signs on lawns in Texas or Missouri or anywhere.
00:19:28.420Has a much more, you know, positive impact than a guy who's sort of just a member of this committee.
00:19:56.280Just asking me about about these false allegations.
00:20:00.640And it just sort of became a downward spiral.
00:20:03.820And my hope, again, sort of the private figure, sort of behind the scenes kind of guy that I was.
00:20:11.140My hope is that it would just blow over.
00:20:13.320So I kind of, you know, I just said, well, a lot of no comments, some comments on background or sort of off the record that, you know, use your common sense.
00:20:27.220And and I kind of tried to go underground a little bit, you know, and again, to your point, I there are a lot of questions from, you know, even family people I was close with.
00:20:44.140You know, what's going on here, right?
00:20:47.640I mean, there was a certain assumption about the media that if they're kind of throwing out these very serious allegations, there's got to be something to it.
00:20:57.060There's got to be something somewhere, you know, so it just creates doubt.
00:21:02.520And I think the thing that was the most serious element of all this is, again, you talk about divisive forces in politics.
00:21:14.920This, you know, exactly to your point, there are some that are going to be inclined to believe this.
00:21:19.900There are some that are going to be, you know, realize that it's completely frivolous on its face.
00:21:25.300But, you know, you have to to the extent that those people who are the believers of the Russia collusion, a false story, that becomes an issue when they want it to kind of take law into their own hands.
00:21:42.420And I never meaning meaning a lot of death threats, terror threats that I got starting, you know, right around that time.
00:21:55.300Was there ever a point to where you realized, I'm really pretty alone and there's no one really writing into my defense?
00:22:12.220And was there ever just a moment where you thought, I'm destroyed for the rest of my life.
00:22:23.820The bigger costs is, I always think about the damage that this story is doing to our country, to our institutions, to our democracy, really.
00:23:17.300There isn't a single person in journalism that actually wants to know the truth.
00:23:22.340And you, I go from, you know, times of righteous indignation to, I'm just, I'm going to go to the mountains and I'm just, I don't care anymore.
00:23:43.340Well, look, I mean, I, I think there's, there's a lot of different motivations for people in terms of the reasons that they do things they do.
00:23:51.300And the desire, the, uh, commitment to kind of do in the end of the day, whatever it takes.
00:23:58.960And from, uh, I'm, I'm just getting to know you now, but my, my sense is we kind of come at it from a very similar perspective of, you know, as one of the sole people who can help fix this mess.
00:24:14.280And, you know, anything you can do to help, uh, create some semblance of integrity within our society and understanding is invaluable.
00:24:27.500And at the end of the day, you know, despite the costs, it makes it, it makes it all worth it.
00:24:33.920Cause there is something bigger than just us.
00:25:07.420That's not him, but they can't let on because they're going to figure out their, the CIA's real plan.
00:25:14.700So Cary Grant is being destroyed by everybody.
00:25:18.460Nobody's standing up between that being your kind of character, at least in my head and, and the awesome betrayal of your country, uh, and your fellow intelligence people and the FBI.
00:25:37.200I, I have a hard time getting my arms around that, but let's stick, stick to the story here.
00:25:43.520I've not heard, I've not heard the story of, I know they tried to recruit you years ago as you know, when you were over in Russia.
00:26:01.380I, some of these cases, which have now been disclosed by government operatives trying to smear me as a way to damaging candidate, president elect and president Trump.
00:26:16.100It, there's so much more to the, to the story and I have never been quote unquote recruited.
00:26:24.740You know, I think some of these case studies, which have been, uh, the Mueller report and other, uh, other things that are very misleading.
00:26:34.580Um, you know, there are these individuals, these, uh, alleged, uh, Russian agents, a couple of guys I, you know, would have casual conversations with no big deal.
00:26:53.760No one in Russia ever asked me to do anything unethical, illegal, or, you know, really in support of their government as a agent or any, any, anything along those lines.
00:27:08.400We're just having friendly conversations.
00:27:10.520And, you know, there was a lot of elements to the first amendment of the U S constitution, freedom of the press, I think is the most well known, but there's also freedom of speech and freedom of association, freedom of association.
00:27:22.800And so if I'm having a conversation with someone, you know, there was absolutely nothing wrong with that.
00:27:30.300I've never been asked to do anything unethical, illegal, or questionable in any way by any of these individuals.
00:27:37.620And so, you know, okay, so that's where that left.
00:27:54.540There is a, again, I had a longstanding relationship with people, you know, within both the FBI and CIA.
00:28:02.620And I was someone who's going back to kind of the, the news and related, uh, you know, telling the truth.
00:28:11.280I'm someone who has definitive insights of what's happening in the middle East, in Russia, in China, a lot of, you know, worldwide.
00:28:22.280And so we had a, we had a dialogue, um, and so, you know, it's less, I mean, again, these, these two specific, uh, quote unquote Russian agents who are, you know, portrayed in the Mueller report very incompletely, uh, and in many ways misleading.
00:28:41.560And in some instances, false information, um, you know, the, uh, they're just conversations I had and, you know, again, I was a supporting, uh, source for the U S intelligence community.
00:28:56.500And, you know, it's unfortunate that again, bearing in mind the original impetus for the creation of the CIA and, you know, a lot of what the FBI did throughout the original cold war is, you know, going after Russian bad guys.
00:29:13.640So to the extent someone can give some context and some, you know, the full perspective, uh, it's not unusual for the CIA or FBI when you are going to meet with high level business people in other countries, this is common that they would ask you just for perspective, right?
00:29:33.660Well, what's interesting about it is, uh, you know, what's, what's different about, uh, my situation is typically, you know, yes, you're absolutely right that, you know, that happens a fair amount of times, uh, or, you know, on some levels.
00:29:53.340However, what's, what is different is U S government sources leaking information about that support of individuals, right?
00:30:03.020Particularly in a negative context in a way, which as we've been talking about is very misleading.
00:30:09.760So, I mean, one great example I like to cite is, um, back when, uh, George H W Bush, uh, the first president Bush was, um, you know, an earlier stage of his, uh, career at, at the high, at the highest levels.
00:30:26.960It was kind of, I think it was around his, uh, presidential campaign or something like that.
00:30:31.040He had actually been a, you know, he had done similar to me.
00:30:35.480He'd be an international business guy focused on the energy sector.
00:30:40.020So, and he, he would have some meetings with people in Latin America and, you know, same as I was doing, uh, with my, uh, work worldwide, Russia, China, the middle East, you know, I would, I would provide, uh,
00:30:56.820with some insights, but what's interesting is when that, when that news came up during his presidential campaign, you know, he always, I forget exactly how he, uh, handled it, but, you know, it was always no comment.
00:31:13.700He never, uh, really was, uh, very forthcoming about that.
00:31:19.060And, and I never wanted to be either, but unfortunately when, you know, when you have this false story, uh, you know, surrounding this collusion between the intelligence, uh, community, FBI, CIA, and the mainstream media, you gotta, you know, again, you gotta set this, set the records.
00:31:39.460So that's, that's, that's no doubt in your mind that they all colluded together.
00:31:44.440Well, I, I think it's, it's apparent on the face.
00:31:47.200I, I, again, uh, the, look, I think one of the biggest examples is the DNC's consultants, you know, the, the bought and paid for consultants who also had, um, relationships or contractual relationships, either, even with the FBI.
00:32:08.800We know, uh, Christopher Steele was paid, and this is through a judicial watch, freedom of information act findings, uh, within the last few years, he was paid 11 times by the FBI in the year 2016.
00:32:45.300And then they go through somebody else in the justice department and the FBI, somebody in the FBI says, Hey, if you meet with him, you know, let us know what's going on.
00:32:54.900I mean, they're still getting information.
00:33:07.900Well, I think elements of it are, and I think, you know, there are some people, a small handful of people at the highest levels, both within DOJ and frankly, in the White House, who are trying to fix the situation.
00:33:22.340But, you know, there's a lot of institutional momentum and, you know, a lot of bad actors.
00:33:28.920And these people are individuals who have worked together going back many years or even decades.
00:33:45.100So, um, with the Russians, um, it's even, it seems even more clear, uh, to me, um, if you hadn't been recruited, um, or attempted to recruit,
00:34:13.240never, um, that the FISA warrant for you is even weaker than I thought it was.
00:34:21.020And it, so let's go through the FISA warrant.
00:34:23.680What did they accuse you of to the judges?
00:34:28.120Well, what's, I think the most interesting element of it is it's been partially declassified, right?
00:34:34.960You know, it's about 400 pages, you know, give or take, uh, a hundred pages for each of the, you know, the first warrant in October, 2016, just a couple of weeks before the election.
00:35:12.920There are, you know, you see it, I've never seen it.
00:35:16.640And the, the problem, and this is, you know, some of the, it speaks to a part of the, uh, illegality of all this.
00:35:24.000There is, and you know, we've talked about, uh, the Watergate situation, you know, one, um, around the same time when that whole scandal was going on, there was a law passed by the U S Congress, the Privacy Act of 1974.
00:35:39.420This is, it's similar to FOIA, Freedom of Information Act in many ways, which the press, uh, and other, um, private citizens can use to try to get, uh, government information.
00:35:52.320The difference of Privacy Act is if the, if the information is actually about the individual.
00:35:57.620So if the government holds what's known as quote unquote, a system of records about you, you're supposed, you have the right as, you know, as defined by law to review that, uh, information.
00:36:12.000Number one, and also, you know, contested comment and request changes, right?
00:36:19.420I have never been given that opportunity whatsoever.
00:36:22.900And I, and I have asked that going back to May of 2017, I put in a request to the DOJ, to the FBI and to national security.
00:36:34.640When did you know that a secret court had been convened about you and that everything you did, read, saw, typed, talked to was being monitored?
00:36:48.340You know, I, I got some, I got some glimpses of it, uh, and, you know, there were some somewhat spec, what seemed to be somewhat speculative news reports in, you know, right before the election.
00:37:02.160Again, this is part of the election interference campaign of, oh, there's something shady going on.
00:37:08.260And then the intelligence community is looking into it, uh, which is totally based on, you know, falsehoods, spins, spin, and, uh, you know, biased information, you know, and had to be released by government.
00:37:25.780Somebody again, you know, there's released and, you know, again, whispered or, you know, who exactly did what we're still waiting to find out, you know?
00:37:35.540So, so, so what was your first inkling that you were being monitored?
00:38:12.400And I actually asked in, in, you know, the month before in March of 2017, I had, you know, about 10 plus hours of beatings with the FBI, with FBI agents.
00:38:24.440I mean, how, how, I know they weren't actual, I hope they weren't actual beatings, but what?
00:38:32.640Well, it's funny, yeah, it's funny you say that, beatings.
00:38:38.300Literally, I would, I presented the FBI agents in March of 2017 with evidence of the death threats that I was getting, including, and I've, I've filed, you know, I've provided this in some court filings that I've submitted.
00:38:54.180But, um, but in March, on March 20th, 2017, literally the, uh, I get this voicemail that, you know, talking about beating me over my head and with a, with a baseball bat, you know?
00:39:08.880So, yes, I guess, inadvertently, I, I meant meetings, but we did talk about the, uh, beating, the, uh, beating threats, right?
00:39:17.100And, you know, a lot of other death threats, getting shot, et cetera.
00:39:20.700So, so were these meetings that they asked for, were they interrogating you or you asked for?
00:39:25.900Well, I had a long, it's funny, right when this defamatory news article that the DNC was, and their consultants were trying to place, uh, and their associates were trying to place in the media throughout the summer of 2016, which is finally published on Friday, September 23rd, 2016.
00:39:47.940I sent a letter to then FBI director, James Comey.
00:39:53.720I emailed him a, a one page letter just explaining how ridiculous this whole thing was.
00:40:00.620And I had asked in that letter, right, you know, I had offered, you know, this is, it's obvious how ridiculous these false allegations, which have been, you know, spread in the media by the Democrats are.
00:40:14.880I think anyone with any common sense would understand that if you have any questions and you don't agree, or if I can provide any other information as I've done, you know, going back many, many years to both the FBI and CIA, give me a call.
00:40:31.580Not only did they not call Glenn, just a couple of weeks later, they, you know, use the DNC consultant to get this fraudulent FISA approved.
00:40:44.740And then they did it again in January of 2017.
00:40:50.500So it wasn't until many months later, close to, you know, over five months later that in early March, one of the FBI, you know, a pair of FBI agents kind of walk up to me unannounced, uh, and, you know, say, well, we'd like to like to talk to you with you.
00:41:05.540And they had a copy of that letter, you know, over five months later, while they're using this defamatory information spread by the Democrats and also, you know, spread throughout the mainstream media.
00:41:18.080But you didn't know about the FISA, you didn't know what they were doing.
00:41:21.220Well, they, they, again, there were some kind of somewhat speculative reports in, you know, right before the election.
00:41:28.240Um, but, you know, I look, I say, you know, there's still a lot I don't know right now.
00:41:34.600There's still a lot you don't know, you know, and you're people like you who have been really trying to dig hard to get this information on through, you know, any, any way possible in terms of, you know, asking the right questions, you know, we're still all getting blocked.
00:41:49.580So, yes, you know, there was some hard evidence that we're getting.
00:41:53.080We got a 480 page inspector general report, which came out in December of 2019.
00:42:00.300But, you know, it's the tip of the iceberg.
00:42:16.580I'm talking, talking through that and, and he would go through periods of real despair and then real hope.
00:42:23.840And because I've been through this before, I, I wondered how he was going to react once he got the news one way or another, because there's something about not knowing for sure that gives you a little bit of hope.
00:42:39.640So was it, is it kind of like that moment when you find out that the government has been reading everything, been watching everything that you, you, you had a little bit of hope that maybe that's not really going on.
00:42:56.920And what I, I've known for sure for over three years already is using your analogy, there is a serious cancer that our country is suffering from based, you know, which started with this metastasizing of the Russia collusion hoax.
00:43:16.880To me, you know, in answer to your question, that is the biggest problem and, you know, thing at the forefront of my mind.
00:43:25.600There's a lot of things that I'm starting to do to, you know, help, help find a cure, if you will, for both myself and for our entire country.
00:43:37.940But litigation is one of those things.
00:43:43.800I, I, I'm, I'm very confident that my case is incredibly strong.
00:43:50.940The thing which sometimes gives me a little bit of caution is I know what's been done in federal courts by false filings by U.S. Department of Justice and private institutions, the DNC and media organizations.
00:44:11.560In terms of some of my initial battles.
00:44:14.360So, and look, I mean, that's kind of, that, that caution is, you know, reason for that caution is a key storyline in the inspector general report, right?
00:44:30.240So what, you know, the caution, you know, I know my case, if we're kind of basing things exactly upon the facts and, you know, what actually happened, I have the strongest case in the world.
00:44:42.340The challenge becomes when you have really dishonest people hiding in the murk of secrecy, spinning and playing games.
00:44:52.600So I went, uh, I had to go to court as I was being sued, uh, and, uh, I had, I had documents, federal documents that were given to me by a federal agent, um, who said, this has got to be exposed.
00:47:53.060But my perspective now is he's hated by the power in Washington so much because whether he intends to or not, he's just exploding all over the place.
00:48:09.340And it's exposing this entire sick, twisted game that's been played in Washington, which is more accurate.
00:48:17.780I think they're both accurate and I think there's a coalition, if you will, between the bad actors in each of those categories that you're you're alluding to, you know, particularly in a Washington context.
00:48:34.160A lot of those Washington bad actors who have been there for a long time, you know, know how to manipulate the system on the other side of that equation.
00:48:43.540So it's a it's a vicious circle, if you will.
00:48:47.780Um, what did you know about Christopher Steele before?
00:48:55.580It's an important question, um, and it actually ties together a lot of the things you're you're alluding to.
00:49:01.860Um, I found out in September of 2016 that the Democrats had hired some, uh, opposition, you know, consultants to dig up dirt on then candidate Trump, including myself.
00:49:21.720And I knew that there was some entities and individuals in London who are working on this.
00:49:30.400So again, and we started to talk about what happened in that transition period between, you know,
00:49:37.600when I took a leave of absence from the Trump, uh, campaign and, uh, the weekend after that, uh, defamatory news report in September, 2016.
00:49:48.260But I actually, again, when I'm having all these death threats, I, I, I went to South Africa because, you know, it was one, you know, I've done some work there before I've spent some time there.
00:50:01.360I have colleagues and I'm like, well, maybe I can be safe here when I'm having all these death threats.
00:50:07.040And so from South Africa in late, uh, late October, 2016, I, there is a commission, the organization of security and cooperation in Europe does an election monitoring, uh, countries around the world.
00:50:24.880And they, they assess election interference in a lot of countries, typically, you know, more problematic in, you know, some world, third world than, than other.
00:50:34.540But, but, you know, there was an election monitor with hundreds of monitors doing this in the United States for the 2016 election.
00:50:45.300I sent a, uh, uh, a letter, a protest letter or kind of, you know, notification of the human rights abuses in, uh, you know, while I was down there in South Africa, you know, I emailed it to the president or the, uh, president in office, the chairman, um, the head of the OSCE.
00:51:04.540Uh, who is, who is, who's now actually the president of, of Germany, uh, as well as, you know, the kind of the main person on the ground, uh, a British, uh, lady, um, and, uh.
00:51:17.840Well, so to the point, that's, that's where I'm kind of leading with this.
00:51:21.280I kind of explained the, uh, you know, this hoax, which is, which was just starting, uh, similar to what I explained to Mr. Comey, um, several weeks earlier in the, in the wake of this defamatory report.
00:51:36.000But, um, I explained that to them and I also mentioned there is a line in there, it's about a four or five page letter, but a line in there saying that, you know, I understand that there are, uh, operatives in London, uh, who have been hired.
00:51:51.000Uh, and I allude to the fact that they're, you know, working in concert, uh, with a law firm.
00:51:57.620Uh, and so I notified the, uh, the OSCE, this international organization about this terrible election interference campaign, uh, to try to undermine president or candidate Trump and, uh, and American democracy.
00:52:14.240Um, and the response, you know, I, I think someone may have asked them about it.
00:52:21.260They ended up doing a little report, uh, right around the time of the election, kind of in the, in the days filing.
00:52:26.580And they're like, well, and I, it's funny, I, I believe the response was words to the effect of, well, this is something that needs to be figured out by, uh, by people domestically that are like, you know, long story short, they, they gave the message of, you know, we're not going to, uh, wait into this, uh, this big story.
00:52:48.640So let me go through something in the Mueller report.
00:52:51.280The investigation did not establish that page coordinated with Russian government in its efforts to interfere with the 2016 presidential election.
00:52:58.940However, with incomplete evidence or testimony about who page may have met or communicated with in Moscow, his activities in Russia, as described in his emails with the Trump campaign were not fully explained.
00:53:16.940That the three Democrat operatives who interrogated me for the, in front of the grand jury, um, you know, they had sort of the similar tone and just a really nasty approach by all of them.
00:53:30.920Um, and look, I mean, there's just tremendous bias and tremendous spin, right?
00:53:38.760The irony of that statement you just met, uh, read Glenn was think about it.
00:53:45.520I have been, I was under surveillance for a year.
00:53:48.320They've gone through everything, you know, and they couldn't find anything because nothing existed, but they couldn't find anything to advance their false, you know,
00:54:03.620So just kind of throw some more final dirt as you're kind of walking out the door and going back to your, your big time law firms and spending that, uh, to advance your personal career at the cost of myself, but so many others.
00:54:18.920And again, I always bear in mind with this, uh, fake Mueller report that, you know, the, uh, obviously they have a lot of hatred for me and a lot of other Trump, uh, you know, members of the Trump movement.
00:54:31.580But at the end of the day, they, they really just hate our president right now.
00:54:36.180Did you ever come across any of them, any of them at any level that were like, dude, I'm sorry to have to ask you this.
00:54:47.120Or I, I think, you know, it, was there any indication anyone at any time was seeing the abuse that from the inside?
00:54:56.480Well, that, that's sort of the sad part about it, Glenn.
00:54:58.960Cause I, again, I, so, and it's in the Mueller report that I had five meetings with the FBI in March of 2017, you know, couple, uh, couple months after the inauguration.
00:55:10.900Um, and towards the end of those five meetings, you know, they're grilling me pretty hard.
00:55:15.660You know, these are kind of up to close to three hours or, you know, um, you know, long sessions.
00:55:22.020And I, and I, I always brought my laptop to those sessions and I would kind of, I'd bring like a little thumb drive to kind of give them more and more documents.
00:55:29.860Little did I know that they had already had them.
00:55:32.780They hacked my, uh, my computers and, you know, had been wiretapping me for, for many months.
00:55:37.940So, you know, I kind of, the 20 bucks or whatever I spent on that USB drive, uh, they laughed kind of, well, they, no, they didn't laugh.
00:55:45.640They're a good kind of, you know, no, I mean to themselves when they got it perhaps, but you know, and this is kind of where I'm going with this, uh, towards the end of those meetings, they said to me, well, you know, originally it was kind of asking me direct questions.
00:56:01.560And then again, it's just so ridiculous on the face a few times they would say, you know, our bosses want, want us to ask this, right.
00:56:12.540You know, and this is, you know, uh, then, uh, the director was, uh, Mr. Comey and the deputy director was, um, you know, McCabe.
00:56:22.780And so, you know, I understood that, uh, you know, maybe these are, you know, there's a lot of great people in the FBI as well as the CIA and, you know, throughout our, our government.
00:56:35.900But, you know, um, the bigger, uh, issue is, I know there was kind of high level operatives who are very partisan and political who are really just trying to, um, interfere in our election, but also cause as much damage as possible to, uh, to president Trump in the, uh, beginning then.
00:56:57.440And, you know, in the years since, as we've unfortunately seen.
00:57:05.900My opinion of Donald Trump has changed an awful lot, um, in some regard, um, he has, uh, not done some of the things that I thought he would do, which I thought would be very destructive.
00:57:23.420He's done some of those things by just tweeting all the time.
00:57:27.020Um, but he has also, uh, he's done a lot of good things and, uh, he gets no good.
00:57:35.900Some of the policies, some of the things like this, if he can expose this and stop this, he may be the most consequential in a positive direction, uh, president since, I mean, I'd put him in Coolidge, Reagan, and even Lincoln on the amount of good that can be done.
00:58:01.520If he can root this out, but he doesn't seem to have any allies.
00:58:08.260And I talked to senators and congressmen and quite honestly, in private, they'll tell me how spooked they are by all of it.
00:58:26.520Well, you know, I, and I, I, I mentioned as a, uh, international fugitive, Mike, going to South Africa, and I actually went to, uh, the home of Nelson Mandela in, you know, his hometown, the Soweto, uh, near, near Johannesburg.
00:58:43.400And really, you know, what he went through is very much similar to what, uh, president Trump has gone through and really.
00:58:58.560Well, harder page compares Nelson Mandela and Donald Trump.
00:59:03.160There's evidence that the CIA was involved in, you know, some of when, uh, when Mandela was trying to create some change in South Africa during the apartheid regime, CIA, you know, which had, uh, close, you know, the U S government had ties with, uh, with South Africa.
00:59:24.340And they were trying to keep things, you know, the establishment, uh, sort of heading in the direction that is in, you know, the way they, they want things to go.
00:59:35.720And here's a guy, you know, similar to, uh, candidate Trump who's trying, you know, trying to shake things up and make things go in a, a better new direction for their country.
00:59:47.440Um, and I think there's another similarity between those two is when someone has a, such a, um, goes through those trials, you know, he spent, uh, you know, I spent time in Cape town too.
01:00:04.040Um, and, uh, you know, he was in jail in, uh, in an, on an Island there for, I think 17 years or something like that.
01:00:12.480Um, that makes you stronger in a lot of ways, right.
01:00:16.720To kind of understand that corruption and these people who are coming after you so aggressively, it only makes you stronger if you can kind of go through that crucible and, uh, um, emerge victorious.
01:00:33.100And I think we're, I think similar to, uh, you know, all the impact that, uh, uh, president Mandela has, it's, it's very similar in many ways.
01:00:43.220Do you, um, if you hadn't had something, uh, if you had had something to hide anything, cause I've, I've lived a life where we have people going through our garbage.
01:01:00.440And my wife and I just laughed when we found out people were going through our garbage, um, because we were an open book.
01:01:08.900Can you speak to the being an open book and how that, uh, how important that is when you go through something like this?
01:01:21.460Well, again, you know, I think that just to sort of finish the thought, uh, with those meetings in March of 2017, right.
01:01:30.060And being that open book, that information, which I'm giving to the FBI, again, similar to what you've experienced and, you know, what we've, uh, what we've been talking about, it gets spun, right?
01:01:45.900You know, sometimes it's the old, uh, Miranda rights statement, uh, anything you say can and will be used against you.
01:01:53.380And these people are very creative when they have a agenda, both inside government, you know, bureaucracies, but also political operatives in government, but also in the media and the kind of the intersection between those two institutions.
01:02:09.140And unfortunately, you know, it can have a very big negative impact, but a couple of, a couple of thoughts, this Ukraine story, this whole impeachment, I believe, and I'd love to hear your thoughts are just a, almost a coverup of all of this.
01:02:33.820They, Nancy Pelosi didn't impeach because they didn't have anything, but once Trump started going to somebody that just might be crazy enough to say, yeah, I want to clean up my country that the democratic party and operatives did not have control of, uh, they came out fast.
01:02:53.900We have to spin the story before the story before the story is spun against us.
01:03:08.580It's not coming out that way because the press is running, you know, all of the, all the plays for them.
01:03:15.060Um, but these, the, the, the same tactics used against you.
01:03:23.900Are, are, are still being run, uh, for instance, Rudy Giuliani was America's mayor.
01:03:34.580He was the guy who put the Gambino crime family away, you know, and, uh, you know, I, I look at anybody who can really be effective in New York and know you probably, you're probably, you know, talking to some people that, you know,
01:03:50.120the good folks back in Iowa are not necessarily talking to, as Rudy said, you can't investigate the crime families unless you have some sources inside the crime families to help do it.
01:04:05.260That's, I believe what he was doing over in there.
01:04:11.180He's the president's attorney trying to find out first, who's, how's this Russia thing going on?
01:04:49.180I, I've never met, uh, mayor Giuliani.
01:04:52.020Um, but on the face of it, so many elements of that story, I think you're absolutely right.
01:04:58.500You know, from what I, from what I can gather as a third party and, uh, as an outsider, uh, I definitely see those, those repeats happening.
01:05:18.640And, uh, where is, uh, what's this going to mean in the end here?
01:05:27.480What, how do you think this plays out?
01:05:30.380I think it's, we're at a really critical time and people need to take very serious steps.
01:05:36.920And I know you've, uh, you've often had, uh, Ted Cruz, Senator Cruz from the great state of Texas here.
01:05:44.020Um, he has been, you know, a growing force to really fight back against this, uh, bureau, you know, this bureaucratic malfeasance.
01:05:54.720And, uh, and, uh, and he's, he, he has really been a great inspiration, but I think there's, uh, you know, quite a few individuals.
01:06:03.180Um, and again, you need, you need support, you know, as, as you're correctly alluding to, it's, it's a lot more difficult when you, uh, try to do things on your own.
01:06:22.180Well, I think, uh, again, all of this is the tip of the iceberg.
01:06:28.980I think any, I know, uh, Senator Cruz has sort of started to say that, uh, in terms of, uh, you know, let's, if you want witnesses, you know, you want, uh, John Bolton and people like that.
01:06:47.320And I believe, you know, from all the sort of basic evidence that if all, if that actually happened, it would be a complete disaster for the Democrats, given all the.
01:07:00.260And the state department and the intelligence and the FBI, which makes me think, you know, the, the, the, you keep saying tip of the iceberg.
01:07:56.220Uh, I don't know firsthand, but just sort of on a theoretical level and what, what he said in some of his speeches, it's been a great inspiration.
01:08:07.700So, for example, his federalist society speech last year, where he kind of, he talks about some of these themes, but also at Notre Dame law school, you know, in terms of religious liberties, et cetera.
01:08:20.100I think he is a incredible force, but he also, from what I can tell, and he faces a lot of the same challenges that president Trump has faced.
01:08:31.800Number one, with people in the permanent bureaucracy who are not supporting him fully, uh, or anywhere near fully.
01:08:42.220Number one, and number two, the media, right.
01:08:45.440Anything he does is, you know, from what I've seen thus far, again, with no firsthand experience, but, um, if he just does the right things or, you know, says reality, they come after him even more aggressively.
01:09:00.160So, for example, when the inspector general report came out on December 9th, 2019, and two days later, the, uh, um, you know, Mr. Horowitz testified in the Senate judiciary, he made some statements that just showed, you know, sort of underscored how serious this problem is.
01:09:21.280And a lot of, a lot of people in the media that week were saying, oh, he's just quote unquote, the president's lawyer, a personal lawyer, kind of, kind of a fixer.
01:09:34.460And again, sometimes those headwinds of the media, negative media forces, as well as a permanent bureaucracy forces are pretty strong.
01:09:45.840But I think in each instance, Attorney General Barr and President Trump have great strength of character and great, uh, great leadership skills.
01:10:39.940You're certainly not going into media.
01:10:41.720Um, I mean, I would think that the president, uh, when he sees an injustice, maybe he, he does put you in to serve someplace, but how are you going to get that passed?
01:11:00.100You know, how are you going to do that?
01:11:04.840I think to your point, uh, anyone that had sort of his similar worldview, um, the permanent bureaucracy and Democrat forces and the media came after them five times more aggressively.
01:11:23.340So, I mean, I think a good example, let's, so this, uh, when that Isikoff report came out that, uh, on Friday, September 23rd, 2016, over the weekend, they've got this, uh, is a joy read show on MSNBC and who's with her, but, uh, or with that.
01:11:44.280They're with, uh, so Isikoff is a guest talking about his big, uh, defamatory report and, um, with, with her, uh, with the two of them is ambassador, Michael McFaul, who was, uh, Obama's ambassador to Russia.
01:12:01.100And he and I have sparred over the years, but similarly, right around the time of the election, uh, in November, uh, 2016, I believe he tweeted out that is Carter Page going to be the ambassador to Russia.
01:12:16.200And I mean, it was, uh, it's one of those things where, um, they really, these headwinds, it just, it's such a huge challenge, not only just fighting this permanent bureaucracy, but also, um, the, uh, the problems with, um, individuals, right.
01:12:38.560You know, who I think along the lines of what you're, what you're leading into, you know, who's going to want to deal with that.
01:12:45.040I, I actually met a, um, a person who's, who is, uh, still in the administration, worked on the campaign and I met one of their family members, uh, this year, or I, sorry, uh, last year in 2019.
01:12:59.760And, you know, they said to me that going through all of this, you know, Mueller witch hunt and related processes, I mean, it's, these are huge costs and, you know, people are on a government salary.
01:13:18.220So it's, uh, it really is quite daunting.
01:13:21.480And I, and I, again, this is, this is another example where I'm, I'm more concerned about, you know, number one, our country and what this has done to so many innocent individuals and the serious costs they've paid.
01:13:34.320Right. And I, I mean, I, I said, I, I expressed my apologies to their, to their family, uh, saying that, and part of it, I think this gets to their point, right?
01:13:45.320What do you, where do you go from here? How do you, how do you deal with this?
01:13:47.980I think anything I can do to help fix this fundamental system can have a very positive impact.
01:13:57.380And it's a way of serving that can be very, uh, an important force, uh, and maybe even a more important force outside of government.
01:14:08.360And I, you know, just knowing your show and kind of getting the word out that, um, there are, there's a lot, uh, there's huge value and, you know, your, the service you do is, uh, is great.
01:14:22.480And just, just to finish a point, um, we were talking about this DNI report in January of 2017 and the government propaganda, uh, just I, when that Yahoo news defamatory article came out in September, 2016, about 45 days before the election or so radio free Europe, which is government, U S government sponsored propaganda outlet rebroadcast that.
01:14:50.800And in a defamation context, if you rebroadcast something, you know, it's, it's also illegal.
01:14:59.180So this is a U S government, uh, funded media propaganda outlet, which is putting out this, uh, false report.
01:15:08.700And, you know, like we were saying about even CNN, uh, uh, New York times, Washington post, wall street journal, they, they really steered clear of this false, these,
01:15:20.620you know, these false libelous allegations, but here you are, here you have a, uh, Obama administration led, uh, media agency, government propaganda agency, which is advancing this false story.
01:15:38.020Industry paid for by your tax and all of our tax dollars.
01:15:42.560And so radio for Europe that year in 2016, I believe, I don't have the statistics in front of me, but I believe it was around over a hundred million dollars a year organization paid for by, uh, your taxpayer dollars.
01:15:56.900And smearing you to make sure you don't perhaps have a good name overseas.
01:16:02.200And well, the, the interesting thing, uh, not only overseas, there was a change of the law right in the middle of the Obama administration, the national defense authorization act of 2013.
01:16:19.540These propaganda agencies were created, you know, similar to the CIA, they were created at the outset, you know, right at the beginning of the cold war.
01:16:28.720And then I believe in the 1940s and through the, by law, these organizations could never transmit into the United States.
01:16:39.640These are foreign, you know, operations, government operations to try to influence opinion in foreign jurisdictions, particularly sort of Warsaw pact and former Soviet union.
01:16:54.140They changed the law in, uh, right in the, around the middle of the Obama administration, um, to change that law to say, now you can broadcast into the United States.
01:17:08.280So that 2016 was the first time ever, uh, a first presidential election where, you know, they're, they're unleashed, right?
01:17:19.300This, uh, rabid dogs of disinformation are unleashed and advancing, uh, political objectives against, uh, innocent U.S. citizens, including candidate Trump in September of 2016.
01:17:38.280And you're, you're, you, you're very loyal to him.
01:17:45.060I mean, you have, you've made this, not about you.
01:17:48.380You've always pointed out it's about him.
01:17:57.900It's, it's been sort of my modus operandi.
01:18:00.920He always said during the campaign in 2016, and he said it throughout the time since, you know, what he, he, what he personally went through and he's gone through so much more than, than I could ever even imagine.
01:18:14.520But he always says, you know, he had a quote, it's not about me, it's about us, right?
01:18:20.000This is about a movement to have positive change in our country.
01:18:24.480And that, you know, I think when I sort of have this philosophy, it sort of is understanding the value of that.
01:18:32.660But also, you know, just to be clear, I never even met, uh, Donald J. Trump, you know, either as a candidate or in the years since, or any time even before the campaign.
01:18:45.900And that's the interesting thing in the, the, uh, the, the, the false spin, right?
01:18:51.160You, uh, our volunteer committee, uh, had one meeting in, uh, I believe it was somewhere around March 31st, 2016, about a week or so after we were announced.
01:19:06.140I had previously booked a trip out, uh, uh, to meet with, uh, top military leaders in Hawaii, U.S. Pacific Command, uh, which is, again, it was another one of these kind of off the record meetings,
01:19:19.000but it, it has been leaked in the time since, so, um, I think it's, it's, it's been acknowledged.
01:19:24.740But, you know, I'm, I'm with, uh, a lot of top admirals and generals, you know, fellow military veterans, and in, uh, you know, 5,000 miles away from this one meeting of our committee.
01:19:36.740And so, and I, I, you know, I had already kind of prearranged this.
01:19:40.340My, my travel is all set, and I'm, I'm, I'm on the other side of the.
01:19:45.700What would you say to him if you saw him, if you met him?
01:19:49.000Just, I, I think it, just to express appreciation for how much he's done to help improve our country and to advance these, uh, these elements.
01:19:59.160But also, I think, you know, to your point about, um, you know, serving within an administration, I just understanding some of the operatives and just how, how much malfeasance.
01:20:11.740And again, it goes back to the, our tip of the iceberg point, and there's just so much more when you start digging into details about this.
01:20:20.620And I think explaining some of those details and just looking at the, uh, all the, you know, making sure that, you know, you have the full scope of the wrongdoing.
01:20:31.400And again, so perfect example are these ridiculous, uh, impeachment hearings in 2019, whether, you know, all these people who are just telling their personal stories.
01:20:45.220And it's, it's like the, uh, you know, some New York times opinion columns these people are given no facts, no kind of firsthand facts whatsoever.
01:20:55.040Just opinion, uh, and disagreement, you know, to that point, when people are consistently smashed, who have, who share a similar worldview to our commander in chief, what's left is the, uh, permanent political class in these, uh, these operatives who have perpetuated these negative forces.