The Glenn Beck Program - Ep 71 ｜ ‘I’m Done Apologizing for Living in a Sea of Red’ ｜ Lara Logan

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00:01:24.540 It takes a mixture of bravado and luck and cunning to be a war correspondent. Most people are not

00:01:46.900 suited for the job. Most people could never do it. Me, I'm out for good reason. There are people who are

00:01:53.760 hardwired to be able to short circuit what we are wired to do, and that is stay alive.

00:02:00.960 We naturally run away from explosions and gunfire. Trekking into a war zone requires a human to deny

00:02:07.080 their most basic fundamental instincts. To do it for news is even harder to imagine. I don't know if

00:02:14.420 you remember James Foley. He was the journalist who was captured and beheaded by ISIS. But the merit

00:02:19.540 and the importance of that reporting is immeasurable. Today's guest is not just a war

00:02:26.660 correspondent. She's one of the most impressive war correspondents in the profession. And she's fought

00:02:31.860 a war here in America as well. She takes it to a whole new level. She was a war correspondent in

00:02:37.860 Afghanistan while she was eight and a half months pregnant. Give you another example. Following the

00:02:43.040 9-11 attacks, her instincts were to go to Afghanistan. She got there, and she was there

00:02:49.280 when I think 95% of the country was still under occupation of the Taliban. Her accolades are

00:02:55.560 impressive. She's worked some of the best networks in the world. Reuters, Fox, Sky, CBS News, ABC News in

00:03:03.260 London, NBC, CNN, 60 Minutes, CBS Evening News, The Early Show, Face the Nation. She was chief foreign

00:03:09.860 affairs correspondent for CBS News. And then something happened along the way. The most important or

00:03:15.340 impressive thing about our guest is her personal accomplishments. She has overcome things that I

00:03:21.260 don't think any of us would dare to even imagine. Nothing short of nightmare one after another. And yet

00:03:28.660 she persevered. She found tremendous meaning in the darkness and emerged a much better person. Today,

00:03:35.200 Laura Logan. You have had a powerfully interesting life, to put it mildly. My mother would love

00:03:59.420 that. Yeah. I think I want to just start with where you came from, how you got, what your foundation

00:04:10.600 was, to try to understand you. Because I really, I admire you, but I don't understand you. I think

00:04:20.120 you are one of the braver people on the planet. So tell me about your upbringing.

00:04:26.480 I would say my foundation really has two pillars. One is love, and the other is respect. And I learned

00:04:35.980 both of those from my family, from where I was born. You know, it begins in the home, but also in the

00:04:47.320 country where I was born. I learned it from the people in South Africa. I learned it from Nelson Mandela.

00:04:53.700 I learned it from my mother. And those are the two things I've carried with me. I think that I've

00:05:00.080 been the strongest. I was born knowing who I was.

00:05:06.520 Wow. What does that mean?

00:05:08.160 It means, it doesn't mean you don't learn. It doesn't mean you don't change. It doesn't mean any

00:05:12.520 of those things. It just means that when people say I'm brave because I, you know, I do this or I do

00:05:19.220 that. I feel like a fraud. I feel a little guilty because I don't know any other way to be. That's

00:05:28.460 just who I am. And it's not even a choice.

00:05:31.460 My son was really afraid to do something. At one point, 10, he was afraid of doing his taekwondo

00:05:42.560 class in front of people and getting his belt. And he wouldn't do it. And I brought him home. And in

00:05:49.240 my office, I have all of these heroes, all these people that, um, from history that are just heroic.

00:05:56.520 And, uh, I sat him down and I said, why do I have all these pictures? And he thought I was going to

00:06:04.400 say, cause they were all heroes. They were all strong. They all did it. And I said, and that's

00:06:07.800 what he said. And I said, no, because I think most of them were terrified, but they did it. They did it.

00:06:18.180 Do you have that other side where you're like, this is crazy. I'm sitting here in a very vulnerable

00:06:26.040 place or do you just, does that not even occur to you? No, it always occurs to me where I am

00:06:33.460 always matters because you don't do this kind of work and go to those places and make it to the

00:06:40.420 other side. If you don't think about that, you have to take it into account. You have to factor it

00:06:46.120 in. But so I think you probably share some of this DNA, right? When you're, when you're trying to

00:06:52.420 think about sitting down, talking to me, uh, nothing could be easier for you. And yet you're

00:06:58.600 still stressed about it because you want it to be the best it can be of you. And you, uh,

00:07:07.320 and you take that extremely seriously. And, uh, it's not easy and casual, right? In a sense,

00:07:14.720 right? It's that part of me. And when I'm out there, I want to do the best that I can do.

00:07:20.620 I can never know enough. I can never, uh, learn enough. I mean, I'm, I, I literally don't stop

00:07:28.520 talking to people and engaging with people and, um, and taking everything in, uh, from the time I'm

00:07:35.340 even, it starts even on the flight on the way in, you can always meet interesting people heading

00:07:39.240 into, I love talking to if there's a flight, by the way. Um, and so for me, that's my, that's my focus.

00:07:48.380 I have to, I have to make smart decisions. I have a lot of things to consider and I have to do my job.

00:07:56.240 And, uh, and, and that's an, an eternally obsessive, uh, process. And it doesn't really

00:08:02.840 allow time for you to be scared, but it doesn't mean that I don't get scared. It doesn't, I'm not

00:08:08.040 immune to those things. I'm not, you know, I know I'm not bulletproof. I learned that

00:08:12.280 the hard way, but, um, it just means that I don't allow the fear to guide me or define me.

00:08:26.380 So I want to come back to this. I don't want to dwell on the article itself at this point,

00:08:30.760 because I do want to hear you talk about it, but the article, um, Benghazi and the bombshell, which

00:08:38.300 the headlines, not insulting at all. Um, if I read that alone, there's no way I'd hire you.

00:08:48.180 No, you were, that was the point, right? You were made to look, um, as somebody who's just

00:08:57.820 really power hungry or, or star hungry, and you'll do anything for your career. Um, and

00:09:04.400 everybody was worried that you were going to get everybody killed, reckless, reckless. That's

00:09:11.560 not what I just heard from you.

00:09:15.800 Oh, I, I, I'm, there is the reason why I say that here is because if you were a man,

00:09:25.260 what you just said would have been fine. You know, you're going into a war zone. You're a,

00:09:32.400 you know, you're a guy and you go in and I'm doing this, but is there a, uh, was there a problem

00:09:41.740 that you were who you were being aggressive, going in and doing these things? And it's a,

00:09:50.680 it's because you're a woman.

00:09:52.400 No, it's not because I'm a woman. It's because I'm a feminine woman. It's because I'm a sexy woman.

00:09:58.200 That's the problem. Not just being a woman. There are, um, there, look at the, at the history of

00:10:06.140 this. I mean, when I started out, yes, I was told by the CNN bureau chief in London, no one with hair

00:10:11.360 like that is ever going to be taken seriously as a, as a war correspondent. I was told my accent didn't

00:10:17.540 work. I was told all kinds of things. Right. And I, um, I never let any of that stand in my way.

00:10:24.000 And I did of course run into it, you know, when I was in Iraq for during the last, um, months and

00:10:32.680 then moments of Saddam Hussein. And I remember, I remember the, the men on the, on the crew who

00:10:40.140 wanted to leave and I wanted to stay saying, you know, you just want to get your face on TV. You

00:10:44.560 just want to be famous. And of course, you know, I, I'd spent years, um, in Angola, in the civil war,

00:10:50.660 in, uh, in the South African townships when they were on fire and people were being necklaced.

00:10:56.500 I'd been in Mozambique in the civil war there. I'd, I'd gone to places where that made the Afghan

00:11:02.600 war look luxurious. Okay. Cause they have supply lines from Pakistan. And I was, you know, and I

00:11:09.220 was treated as if I was this silly little girl who only cared about her ego and, uh, her fame.

00:11:15.040 And I never worried about those things because they weren't true. And, uh, and I know exactly

00:11:21.420 who I am and what I'm doing and why I'm here. And also because there were other men in who didn't

00:11:28.700 see it that way and who recognized, uh, and saw me for who I was and respected that. So I've never

00:11:35.960 been one of those women that's, that likes to complain about, you know, how I was treated as a

00:11:40.880 woman because I never, I, it never bothered me that I had to work harder. It never bothered.

00:11:45.580 I would have probably done it anyway. I liked it as a conservative working like that as a

00:11:50.680 conservative. I mean, I came from nothing. I'm the first one to go to college and I never finished

00:11:56.320 college in, in, you know, my family, um, had nothing built it all from scratch. Of course,

00:12:04.320 as a conservative have had roadblock after roadblock after roadblock. Yeah, sure. I don't

00:12:11.040 really care. I mean, I only say, you know, being a conservative sucked only because they keep saying

00:12:18.520 there's no, you know, we can't make it oppression, oppression. Are you kidding me? Try to do what we

00:12:24.500 do. No lifetime achievement awards for you, Glenn. Yeah. No, nothing. Right. Nothing. No,

00:12:29.720 no DuPonts or Peabody's or anything else. Right. And I don't, and I don't care. I don't,

00:12:34.340 Emmys. Right. I don't live for that. I don't really care about that. Um, so I appreciate the

00:12:41.540 fact that you're, that you don't, um, focus on, yeah, that's what was going on. You're just trying

00:12:50.460 to get the story. And also, um, I just, one thing that I think is important to point out that

00:12:56.380 article, Benghazi and the Bombshell, that wasn't about, um, my being a woman. That was about,

00:13:02.560 um, that was a hit piece. It was an assassination piece designed to destroy me and my career.

00:13:08.440 That was the purpose. I read it as somebody who's, I, you know, have run the blaze for years,

00:13:16.340 mainly into the ground, but run it, run it for years. And if I, if I didn't know better,

00:13:24.260 I would have read that and said, Oh, no way. Now, if I'm a, if I'm running an organization

00:13:31.740 in New York, absolutely not. You're the last person I would have. I at least can recognize

00:13:38.980 the bias. I don't think they see it. I don't think they. Well, you know, you don't have to

00:13:44.400 look any further than the line, uh, in that article, uh, about what happened to me in Egypt

00:13:50.480 where Joe Hagan, the writer describes it, um, as being groped and, uh, that, you know,

00:13:56.700 with all the things that they, that with all the dishonest things, um, that he put in there

00:14:01.460 to smear me, all the lies that he told all the, the nasty, snocky, anonymous comments and

00:14:07.480 everything else. Um, none of that mattered to me. What I cared about, um, was I felt like

00:14:16.120 the moment I came out of that square and they put, uh, that black traditional

00:14:22.040 Shador, the rope on me and I disappeared. That's what it felt like when you're, um, when

00:14:27.980 you've been raped and in my case, gang raped and, uh, sodomized and 25 minutes, it was more

00:14:35.700 than that actually. But, um, uh, it was more like it was closer to 40 minutes. But when that,

00:14:41.740 when you've lived through that, the one thing that you have, any rape victim knows, any sexual

00:14:46.900 assault victim knows what you have is your word because you can't show all of your injuries.

00:14:52.660 Right. And, uh, and in that moment, that man and that magazine, they knew it wasn't in dispute

00:15:00.580 what happened to me in Egypt. Um, there was a record of it. There were witnesses that our

00:15:05.780 security person, Ray had written an eyewitness account, you know, for the parts that he saw

00:15:10.580 and he wasn't even there for all of it because they tore him off me after 20 minutes. So,

00:15:15.060 um, that just to, for that magazine, uh, to stand there and to be loaded by the establishment

00:15:23.220 as truth tellers and, you know, and warriors for what's right and just in our society and

00:15:28.860 the fourth estate and everything else is, uh, is to me absolutely unconscionable that they

00:15:34.540 can write, that they can turn gang rape and sodomy into groping and nobody has a problem

00:15:42.260 with it. You don't hear a murmur.

00:15:47.540 Can we just, can we spend a minute there in the square or just right after? I, I don't need

00:15:56.460 the details. I got it. Um, but there are a couple of things that stood out. You said

00:16:05.240 you held on to your cameraman as long as you could because you felt if you let go, you

00:16:11.680 would die. Tell me about that.

00:16:15.440 Well, the week before when we'd been there, um, and we'd been up in Alexandria on our way

00:16:21.360 into Cairo, um, we were detained and, um, we ended up, um, being held in a, um, Egyptian

00:16:29.500 intelligence, uh, facility and, um, you know, cuffed and hooded and interrogated and that

00:16:38.100 kind of stuff. And I, and I had gotten very sick and, um, passed out unconscious when they

00:16:44.720 stabbed me with a needle and threw me on a filthy couch in someone's office. Um, but we'd

00:16:50.360 we'd come home from that and, um, and gone back a week later again.

00:16:58.500 Why? Well, well, well, because I knew that Mubarak was about to fall and, uh, that would

00:17:06.000 change everything in the Middle East. And it was such a, um, a big event. And I, I wanted

00:17:11.960 to be, you know, I, I have like a homing device and I'm like, I'm a homing pigeon. And when

00:17:18.120 there's something like that, that's, you know, sort of at the center of, um, of many significant

00:17:24.340 things, I just, I mean, that's where I go. You know, when a bomb goes off, I'm typically

00:17:28.780 not running away from it. I'm running towards that scene, you know, and you see all the people

00:17:33.460 passing you. It was happened when I went into Baghdad during the, the Iraq war. I remember

00:17:38.780 seeing, you know, lots of people leaving and people on the march out of Baghdad and the Iraqi

00:17:43.960 army on the march with their artillery pieces. I don't even know if any other journalists

00:17:47.940 ever saw that because it was quite extraordinary. And we were heading into Baghdad, you know,

00:17:52.600 the oil fires burning and, um, and the planes, you know, the bombers flying. And it was just,

00:17:58.280 it was quite unbelievable, but I knew that I was going the direction I was meant to go.

00:18:02.860 And so, um, for me, uh, when I went back to Egypt, it was for specifically for the fall

00:18:12.960 of Hosni Mubarak. And he quit, uh, about 10 minutes after we landed in Cairo. So, uh, we

00:18:20.340 rushed to the square and, um, we only brought a security person with us, um, because we'd

00:18:27.460 been arrested the week before. And we wanted to show CBS that we were being responsible and

00:18:33.140 that we were taking our security seriously, you know? And, um, and in the end, actually,

00:18:39.260 Ray really did save my life because I thought when, when we were separated from the crowd

00:18:45.920 and I thought at first that people were trying to help us. And then it turned out actually

00:18:50.160 that wasn't the case at all. They were among the people who raped me, but, um, Ray was the

00:18:56.760 only one that managed, that I managed to hold onto. And he was the one, I mean, he was, you

00:19:03.000 know, I was holding onto his shirt. So that's how far he was from me. And, um, he kept saying

00:19:08.240 to me, Laura, don't let go. Just don't let go. If you let go, you're going to die. Laura,

00:19:13.860 get up, get up. If you don't get up, you're going to die. If you can't stay down, stay

00:19:18.200 on your feet, stay on your feet. And, um, and then he would tell me, okay, they're, they're

00:19:24.360 beating us with sticks and they're taking our passports and they're doing this and they're

00:19:28.940 doing that. And of course, at a certain point, you know, I mean, he didn't want to say

00:19:33.420 what he saw. Um, and when I lost him, I, I thought this is it. This is the moment. Now

00:19:41.600 it's over. I knew that I, on my own, that I had no chance of surviving. And, um, and

00:19:49.440 actually it took me a few years to realize that that was really the moment. Instead of

00:19:53.700 the moment I died, that was the moment that, um, I lived because Ray fought his way through

00:20:00.180 the mob to, once they discarded him, cause that was all, you know, it was about what

00:20:04.300 they wanted to do to me. He, uh, he found some Egyptian soldiers and he forced them to

00:20:12.220 come and find me. And that really is what I believe saved my life. More than anything,

00:20:19.180 there were, it were also the women that I fell onto in the square where I was dragged. And,

00:20:24.100 you know, at that point I didn't have, um, the strength to get up anymore. So I was down

00:20:29.840 for the last time then. And so it, it, um, that was fortunate, but the, the young men

00:20:37.080 that jumped up to stand between the mob and the women, I think, you know, they did it in

00:20:42.300 part for me, but in part also to protect their own women from what was happening. And all

00:20:47.460 of those things sort of came together, um, in a, you know, in a moment that where I had

00:20:54.000 a chance to live, um, instead of die. And, and that, that changed everything.

00:20:59.000 I worked at CNN. I know how the Middle East desk works at CNN. And, um, um, and it's,

00:21:28.000 and it's, I think obscene. Um, and I, nowhere did I hear the real outcry, um, on that. At first

00:21:46.120 they were crying, Jew, Jew, Jew, Jew. Um, and the, the, just the misogynistic, um, culture

00:21:59.560 that is supposedly just as nice as ours. It's not, it's not. And I don't, I don't understand

00:22:09.080 why the media is, it will kind of just dismiss this kind of just move past this, allow somebody

00:22:23.200 say you were just groped and not at least stop and say somebody that we've all watched

00:22:30.660 for a long time. Just had this happen. What does that say about this culture? And what

00:22:40.200 does that say about the radicals that are there? That's not all Egyptians. We know that

00:22:48.220 the radicals that are there and the radicals that are in our own country on the left that

00:22:54.680 are okay with this. They're, they're excusing a lot of this. There's, there's never any reflection

00:23:01.620 on something like this.

00:23:04.520 You know, well, you covered, um, about a thousand different things there.

00:23:11.000 So, so I have to pick, uh, I have to pick which one is perhaps the, the most important. I think

00:23:19.400 you're not wrong when you, um, when you, when you put radicals, um, on the left and radicals in

00:23:27.240 the Islamic culture together, in a sense, especially when you look at, at how the propaganda of not

00:23:34.540 just radicals in the U S but of mainstream politicians has served the interests of, um,

00:23:43.720 you know, of the, of radicals in the Islamic world. And, um, and, and I want to be clear,

00:23:48.760 I'm not saying everybody's radical. I know that. Uh, I mean, I know that myself, I lived in Iraq for

00:23:53.940 five years. I lived in Afghanistan for years and I loved being there. I loved living there. And I

00:23:59.100 loved the people that, um, that, you know, the many people that I was close to and shared those years

00:24:05.380 with. Um, but the perfect example of what you're talking about actually took place today. Um, so this

00:24:14.240 is February, what 21st, cause I don't want to date this, go to the New York times and read

00:24:20.700 the editorial written by Siraj Haqqani, because if there was ever a radical terrorist leader, one of

00:24:31.800 the most lethal of our time, it's Siraj Haqqani, who is the leader of the Haqqani network in

00:24:40.360 Afghanistan, as I'm sure, you know, and the Haqqani network has really functioned as the Afghan

00:24:46.660 Al Qaeda. This man was given the platform by the New York times to write an op-ed that costs him

00:24:57.360 as some kind of dove of peace. I mean, that to me, if you want to talk about not just radicals

00:25:06.500 in this country, but if you want to talk about why liberals, uh, liberal people, the left, whatever

00:25:13.500 you want to call them, I hate those words because they make them, they make it, they sound so

00:25:17.080 judgmental and I don't mean it in that way, but how else do you explain why a newspaper like the New

00:25:23.240 York times gives a voice to someone like Siraj Haqqani? Are they that desperate to get out of

00:25:29.640 Afghanistan that they really don't care what happens in their wake, that they, that they're

00:25:35.140 going to legitimize a terrorist leader? I guess they are because this is the same publication that

00:25:41.900 tweeted on the 10th anniversary of 9-11, that this is the day planes attacked the world trade center,

00:25:46.640 right? We're just going to remove the people who flew those planes and plotted that and financed it

00:25:53.000 and et cetera, et cetera. I could go on forever. So I guess, um, the important thing there for me is

00:26:00.780 that I didn't understand how this could happen. And all I did was reporting from the ground up

00:26:07.000 through the bush years. I wrongly assumed, I wrongly assumed that all the problems happened

00:26:12.720 because Rumsfeld was bad and, you know, and Cheney was evil and, you know, and et cetera, et cetera,

00:26:20.000 et cetera. And if we could just get the good guys back again, oh, you know, then all those problems

00:26:26.120 would go away and people would stop lying and people would, um, you know, stop serving their

00:26:31.380 political interests before, you know, the truth and et cetera, et cetera. And boy, was I wrong.

00:26:36.140 You know, I, I stayed the same. I kept doing my job the same way. And under Bush, I was, uh, you know,

00:26:42.360 heroic figure, um, of the, of the, of the media. And, uh, when I continued to do it under Obama,

00:26:49.360 I quickly found out, uh, yeah, that I wasn't the golden girl anymore.

00:26:56.740 I said the same things about George W. Bush. I had real problems with him. At one point I talked to,

00:27:03.920 well, I was at CNN talked about, uh, you want something impeachable. Here's what you look at.

00:27:12.360 You know, uh, cause everybody was talking about impeaching him and I had real problems with the

00:27:16.740 way he was running the war, et cetera, et cetera. And I was a supporter at the beginning, less so

00:27:21.460 towards the end, because I thought we really screwed up, you know, um, look, war is about

00:27:27.620 killing people, kill them quickly and end it and end it. Take the objective. Yes, please. Um, but then I

00:27:35.900 went to Fox and I said the same things, except it was about another guy, Barack Obama. And I was the

00:27:41.540 Antichrist. It's, uh, that's how it works. Yeah, it is. And it, it's refreshing to see

00:27:48.980 journalists and there are very few of them that will actually look at the facts. I, I came into,

00:27:56.520 I'm not a journalist and I came into that world, um, from doing radio for years and years and years.

00:28:02.700 And, um, um, and then I come into television and I don't want to do television. I hate television.

00:28:09.680 And I walk into it naively thinking, Oh, well, as long as I have the facts, as long as I can prove

00:28:19.280 it, as long as I can show you, Hey, look, don't you think putting this and this and this and this

00:28:24.360 together shows a picture that we should all be concerned about or talking about we're talking

00:28:29.740 about? No, there was no curiosity. There was no, there was no one that was really willing to go.

00:28:37.920 Oh, I hate that guy, but you know what?

00:28:43.360 You mean kind of like, uh, with the whole, uh, Russia collusion thing, nobody, there's nobody

00:28:49.760 that's going to say, Oh, by the way, by the way, wow. If you're, if you're using the criminal

00:28:55.380 justice system as a political weapon, that's bad for all of us, all of us. And now it is so ironic,

00:29:02.800 of course, because now you hear that with everything happening with, with Bill Barr and Trump and Roger

00:29:08.600 Stone. And you hear, you literally hear the very people, the very people that have been doing this

00:29:14.600 for years saying, Oh, this president has to go because he's weaponizing the criminal justice

00:29:21.360 system. I love how the word weaponize suddenly became part of our lexicon. When nobody asks when,

00:29:28.140 when did we all start hearing people and using the word weaponize? That is a strategic tactical

00:29:35.440 term used in disinformation campaigns. It comes, it comes from the programs this country developed

00:29:48.200 to use against its enemies. And it's become part of our lexicon because that's what you call

00:29:55.440 shaping and normalizing, right? Normalizing. What that word, I wish people would take a look at, uh,

00:30:03.000 the strategic document put out by, uh, by the propagandists from media matters for America,

00:30:10.200 right after Trump's election, that they would resist the normalization of this president.

00:30:15.700 New York times can normalize Siraj Akhani, but, uh, but no one, no journalist is allowed to

00:30:22.240 normalize Donald Trump. And if they do, they'll be punished is the word they use punished. And they've

00:30:27.700 got millions and millions and millions of dollars. They've targeted me. They targeted you.

00:30:33.000 Um, and they, and they call themselves a watchdog and the media, the New York times and others

00:30:38.000 calls them a watchdog, liberal media watchdog. They get the email. I've seen it happen. They get the

00:30:45.460 email, read it. It must be true. Let's do a story on that. That's like taking a story from Alex Jones

00:30:53.100 and Alex Jones at times may be more accurate than media matters. It's far worse. I tell you why,

00:30:59.380 because what's the difference? What's the difference? Media matters has an information

00:31:03.500 infrastructure. They have a propaganda infrastructure and, uh, they have a research arm.

00:31:08.360 They have, um, a news media arm. They call it the American independent. It was share blue.

00:31:13.060 They have, uh, media matters, which is their propaganda arm. And, and it goes on from there.

00:31:18.680 They produce books. They produce data. They have artificial intelligence, algorithms, and apps.

00:31:23.920 They search everything that you've ever said. They, um, and then beyond that, they partner

00:31:29.200 with groups like the Southern Poverty Law Center. So they have Google. Oh yeah. YouTube.

00:31:34.880 It's not just, well, they allow them to help them write the algorithms that determine what's

00:31:39.920 hate speech and what's not. So, and when you add into that, so now all of these, uh, civil society

00:31:47.260 organizations, um, groups like the Southern Poverty Law Center that have such, you know,

00:31:52.340 enormous history in this country that, that appear to represent one thing, how can they be working

00:31:58.640 with a propaganda organization? How can that happen? And they, they give themselves titles

00:32:03.580 like senior research fellow. I'm a senior research fellow at media matters for America, which is what

00:32:10.140 a propaganda assassination organization, right? Where all they want to do is assassinate, not just

00:32:16.900 journalists, but according to them, right? I'm using their words to go after any politician that

00:32:22.700 normalizes Trump, whether they're on the left or the right. And by the way, if they're on the left,

00:32:27.120 they're taking them out too. They want to make sure that no one on the left, no democratic politician

00:32:31.800 dares to normalize this president or vote with him or work with him or anything, because that's a threat

00:32:37.660 to them as well. Meanwhile, they say nothing about Antifa, the Bernie bros. Bernie in the debate,

00:32:47.660 the last debate said, you know, these people that are threatening people online, those are Russian

00:32:54.680 assets that Russia is, right? That's crazy talk, crazy talk. It was one of his supporters

00:33:03.920 that went and tried to shoot all of the members of the Republican Congress in Virginia. The guys,

00:33:12.560 two of them on his staff currently that hold that same position, same position. They both are on tape

00:33:21.300 saying they pretty much like to do the same thing. One wants to burn Milwaukee down to the ground.

00:33:27.160 Uh, the other one, uh, says it's time to get your rifle, learn how to use it and start taking people

00:33:34.180 out. The campaign issued a memo that said, just keep your head down. This will blow over.

00:33:43.440 How is, how, where is, where is the press? Where?

00:33:48.220 It's really interesting because it's reminiscent, um, for anyone who knows a little bit of Nazi history

00:33:55.640 of the brown shirts, right? That's what it reminds you of those kinds of tactics. Nobody can have

00:34:01.560 guns except our guys. And I actually saw, um, someone online, I was researching the other night

00:34:07.340 was actually calling for, we need Antifa at our rallies. Where, where are the, where is Antifa

00:34:12.340 to protect us? It's really interesting to see that, that, um, kind of, um, attitude really coming

00:34:19.040 from, from the left, which is supposed to be anti-gun and anti-violence, right? Um, and

00:34:24.960 of course the media narrative on this fueled by people like media matters is that Antifa

00:34:31.280 are the anti-fascists and they're fighting the fascists. Therefore they are good and their

00:34:36.800 use of violence is good because they're going after the bad people. But as someone much smarter

00:34:42.800 than me, actually on this subject pointed out to me, take a look at their platform. Look at their

00:34:47.840 manifesto. Look at what they actually believe in. It's not, um, a democratic liberal philosophy.

00:34:54.640 No. It's not, it's actually, is it, are they in favor of freedom of speech? No. Uh, freedom, uh,

00:35:01.360 of association? No. No. Free markets? No. In fact, they're against all of those things. So in fact,

00:35:08.400 um, aside from immigration, their, uh, their platform was pretty fascist.

00:35:14.080 They're the, they, if you look at the Nazi, the American Nazis and you look at their platform,

00:35:20.960 talk to what's his name, Richard Spencer, I think is his name, the head of it.

00:35:24.480 Oh, you're really getting me in trouble now. You really, thanks. I didn't have enough targets

00:35:31.360 on my back. Just add alt-right neo-Nazi. Thank you so much. You listen to him. He doesn't believe

00:35:38.640 in the constitution. He doesn't believe in freedom of property. He doesn't believe in any of these

00:35:43.600 things. He believes in universal health care. He believes in all of the, they're socialists.

00:35:48.480 Oh, so they agree. They agree. They agree. They actually have more in common than, than they want

00:35:54.080 to admit. Right. They're an alternate to the right. They're an alternative to the right.

00:35:58.800 Oh, I see. That's what it means. It's crazy. Wow. Isn't it? Wow. So let me ask you.

00:36:05.360 We're not allowed to have those conversations, by the way. I know. Just the fact that you had that

00:36:08.880 conversation makes you a neo-Nazi. You know that, right? Yeah, I do. Yeah. I do. You know,

00:36:15.120 and I, um, I have a daughter who has cerebral palsy and, um, back in the late eighties, early nineties,

00:36:24.960 I became very sensitive to what people would say and how people would react. And, and, um, I did a lot

00:36:35.120 of volunteer work for special Olympics and, and everything. And, and I became, uh,

00:36:43.360 dangerously soft because my heart was leading me. And I think this is an American trait. I hope it's

00:36:52.480 a human trait, but Americans generally, they don't care. Just live your life the way you live. You know

00:37:00.400 what I mean? I don't want to hurt you. Don't hurt me live and let live. Okay. Yeah. So when you say,

00:37:08.080 you know, Hey, handicap, that kind of really hurts. And people are like, I, I'm sorry. I didn't,

00:37:14.880 but it's gone so far now to where I think of the words of Hitler, where he says, Oh, and the bigger,

00:37:22.160 the lie, the better we are now to a place to where society has beat people up and bullied

00:37:29.840 people so much that you will actually say, not you, not me, but a lot of people will either say

00:37:37.760 or just remain silent on a man can have a baby too. Man can have a menstrual cycle. No, they can't.

00:37:44.880 And if you're buying into something that big and that you will stay silent, all the rest of it is

00:37:51.360 nothing. It's so interesting because society doesn't beat us up. People beat us up. Right. And, um,

00:38:00.720 and there are people hiding behind things like society or it was a mistake or it was an accident.

00:38:07.920 And, um, um, and that's the frustrating part for me is that, um, the, the, the real bad guys,

00:38:16.080 the people behind all of this driving this, they know how to exploit what is already there,

00:38:22.960 right? They know that most journalists are liberal. It doesn't mean all journalists are bad and nobody

00:38:29.640 reports the truth. What it means is there's a sympathy there. There's a natural, uh, shared common

00:38:35.880 ground that can be exploited. And that's exactly what they're doing. And so human nature is nobody

00:38:42.760 wants to be alone on the 50 yard line at the Superbowl, right? Oh, that's uncomfortable. There's

00:38:48.200 only a few people that are really built for that. And, and so what does everybody know? It's easier to

00:38:55.080 go with the crowd than not. And so they count on that and they use that and they don't need,

00:39:01.720 they don't need to have an army of, you know, 10 million people. They just need to have enough

00:39:09.080 to trigger that behavior. And the most effective weapon they have is when we police and censor

00:39:15.880 ourselves. We do it for them. That's the silence you hear, right? That's what it is. That's us policing

00:39:24.200 and silencing and censoring ourselves so that we don't pay the price that we see others pay.

00:39:31.240 So you, nobody's paid more of a price than you. Well, there's always someone you can always find

00:39:40.000 someone. Everybody gets there. We all, everyone pays the price. My mother used to say, we all pay

00:39:47.240 a price, especially if you're willing to stand up against the other side or your own side. Just say,

00:39:55.640 look, I, I'm just trying to tell you the truth. You pay a heavy price. I've never been a cool kid

00:40:02.760 ever. I was never a cool kid at school. I was never cool. And I always wanted to be cool, but I never was

00:40:10.360 cool. Um, and you, it's a natural drive to be accepted, to want to accept an Emmy, to have somebody

00:40:22.920 go, good job. Oh yeah. I mean, how does the average person, I asked a woman who's one of the righteous

00:40:30.760 among the nations, sea of righteousness is in all of us. That courage is in all of us. How do you water

00:40:38.040 it? And she said, you misunderstand the righteous didn't suddenly become righteous. They just didn't

00:40:45.900 go over the cliff like everybody else. So how do you, how do you water, or are you just unique? Are

00:40:55.220 we just freaks of nature? They're always going to be just a few people that are willing to do it.

00:41:01.020 How do you get people to say, it doesn't matter what they say about you. It doesn't,

00:41:06.220 your job is not as worth as worth as much as your word. Nobody, nobody wants to be alone.

00:41:16.220 It's, it's terrifying in a sense. So what we have, what we, we all need that in some way,

00:41:23.360 in some form or another, we can say we don't, but we're not being completely honest with ourselves,

00:41:28.420 right? Because a little part of us does want that or need it. So what you do, you know,

00:41:33.960 that when you stand up, you're letting everyone else out there know you're not alone. I can do it. If

00:41:42.440 I can do it, you can do it. That's what all of these people have done. Look how Nelson Mandela was

00:41:48.020 a little kid in the middle of rural Transcon, the wild coast of South Africa, mostly dirt roads and

00:41:55.400 cattle. And, and that man changed the world. He didn't start out thinking, I'm going to go change

00:42:03.460 the world. He just followed what he knew in his heart. He knew the difference between right and

00:42:09.640 wrong. And he was never going to run from that. It was always going to be worth it to them. That man

00:42:15.460 at his trial for terrorism, do you remember that? The Rivonia trial all the way back in the late sixties,

00:42:20.500 his friends, his family, the leadership of the ANC, his party, they begged him not to give the speech

00:42:27.200 that he gave. And I go back to it because it's burned into my soul and into my memory. But also it

00:42:36.180 still leads me. That's the thing about principles. They, they, they enjoy everything. They enjoy through

00:42:42.300 time. Why is Shakespeare relevant today? Because the principles. And Nelson Mandela wrote

00:42:48.580 these words, he said, among many other things, but the ones that stuck with me, he said, freedom

00:42:55.580 is an ideal for which I would like to live. But it is also an ideal for which I am quite prepared

00:43:05.840 to die. And everyone thought, everyone close to him thought that would be perceived by the South African

00:43:13.460 government as a challenge and that he would extinguish any chance he had of not being executed.

00:43:20.460 And he said it anyway. He didn't know when he said it, that he would have the next 27 years behind bars.

00:43:29.460 He didn't know that he was quite prepared to die. So that is, that's the spirit that guides me. You know,

00:43:41.400 that's all I know. So you're from, you're from South Africa. You grew up with that. You saw things

00:43:48.100 that Americans have never seen. We have not seen these. I mean, oh my gosh, the poor here. The poor

00:43:55.140 here go anywhere else in the world. We are poorest are still one of the richest 10% globally. So we don't

00:44:05.740 have that experience. It's just, it's like times you just want to shake America and say,

00:44:12.280 would you just open your eyes and look what you have? Yes. How do we, and I don't mean stuff. I mean,

00:44:19.920 the freedom, the ability, somebody can come here from Afghanistan or from, from, you know,

00:44:26.340 the occupied territories, if you care to call it that anywhere. And if you apply yourself,

00:44:33.640 if you are good, if you're sharp, you can succeed where other nations, other societies

00:44:39.660 will squash you down. It may not be utopia, but it's still the best in the world. And we are

00:44:48.180 just dismantling it.

00:44:49.800 If the American dream were not so powerful, would it really be something that people talk

00:44:55.760 about all across the world? Would it really be something that people chase? They come from

00:45:00.340 all kinds of life.

00:45:02.380 So being from South Africa, seeing us from what you've probably thought of us when you lived

00:45:09.920 there to what you felt, what did you, what did you think then? What did you think when you

00:45:15.660 first came here? And where are we now compared?

00:45:21.760 Well, for me, I think one of the things that many Americans don't understand is that this country

00:45:31.240 is defined by the coasts, the media and publishers, books, all of that. Where is all, where does most

00:45:41.240 of it, the vast majority of it, and the centers of power, where do they reside? On the East

00:45:46.560 Coast, New York City. And the West Coast, Hollywood, defines America in the entertainment world and

00:45:55.740 music, right? So, and look at, so those two things, that's our view and our vision of America

00:46:01.700 America from the outside. Nobody has any concept of the middle, the flyover states, right? The place

00:46:11.740 that- That's the heart. When you're here, that's the heart.

00:46:14.980 No, not according to New York and LA.

00:46:18.900 Well, yeah, I know.

00:46:19.420 Not according to Hollywood and the media. And so one of the things that for me, I think,

00:46:26.680 is left out of the narrative that most people don't understand is that the American dream is

00:46:33.740 built on hard work. It's extraordinary how hard people actually do work. There are a lot of people

00:46:41.080 who don't, but rarely the average American works very, very hard and often more, you know, more than

00:46:48.180 a couple of jobs. I live in flyover country, okay? I live in a tiny town in the middle of nowhere in

00:46:54.740 the hill country in Texas. And I'm done apologizing to all the people that I know and my friends and

00:47:02.120 people that I meet on the East Coast for living in a sea of red, as people have said to me. And I'm

00:47:08.900 done pointing out, which is not honest because I'm pointing it out now, that every-

00:47:13.840 This is the last time.

00:47:14.800 This is the last time I'm going to say this.

00:47:16.980 Right.

00:47:17.500 Every city in Texas went Democrat in the last election. You know, every big city. So I have

00:47:27.020 learned that visiting those places, glimpsing them is not the same as actually living there. I have

00:47:33.480 learned so much about what it's really like to be in rural America where there's, you can't just call and

00:47:40.400 get your washing machine repaired. I mean, sometimes, you know, my bosses or colleagues

00:47:44.840 will say with exasperated, well, how can you not, you know, have done this or have done that? And

00:47:51.400 I'm like, well, because it's taken two months to get someone to come here who thinks they might be

00:47:57.900 able to repair the dryer. You don't know what, you know? I mean, we put salt in our water. We pull it

00:48:03.280 out of the ground. I mean, I can't begin. I will come home at three in the morning from

00:48:07.680 interviewing a world leader and I'll be doing laundry and on my hands and knees cleaning the

00:48:13.560 floor because I cannot bear the thought of waking up without it being done. And there's nobody else

00:48:17.780 to do it. Okay. Besides us, we're doing it. And so I've learned about that, but I think also living

00:48:25.720 in the U S as opposed to when I was living in Iraq for years and working in the, you know, working for

00:48:31.480 an American company, living in London, working for an American company, visiting, being married to an

00:48:36.420 American, that was not the same as coming to understand the principles of this country,

00:48:43.300 that, that, uh, that democracy here works because of equal representation. You don't have, I've seen

00:48:50.280 democracy fail. I've seen it, you know, succeed and I've seen it fail in all kinds of places.

00:48:55.940 Democracy will always fail. True democracy, a representative Republic.

00:49:00.840 That's right. And that's missing from the conversation. I didn't understand that. So I'm

00:49:05.680 mystified why nobody has asked Pete Buttigieg about, uh, eliminating the electoral college.

00:49:11.780 Does it, does it not register that? Well, does it not register that you're from Indiana?

00:49:16.720 Right. Why would anyone from Indiana ever vote again? If you get rid of the electoral college,

00:49:22.220 it won't matter. None of your votes will matter. And all of these places, you know, even South Africa,

00:49:27.940 even Nelson Mandela made a deal for the first South African election, the first democratic election

00:49:33.820 in South Africa, he traded away votes of his own party. So this majority wasn't too big. And he gave

00:49:39.740 them to his, his main rival, uh, opposition, you know, um, on the black political front. And because

00:49:49.540 he, he knew that if they were humiliated by the election result, that he wouldn't be able to deliver

00:49:54.920 anything, he wouldn't be able to build the country. Wouldn't be able to bring people together.

00:49:58.740 If anybody is willing, I don't know if anybody wants that. I think there's, there comes a point

00:50:05.040 to where people have been shoved up against a wall in their corners for so long and belittled. And

00:50:12.200 that I fear that there is, and maybe hopefully we're moving past this, but I fear there's a point to

00:50:21.900 where I just want to win. I want to shut you up. You know what I mean? That's, that's deadly.

00:50:28.840 That's what's happening on the left. Just shut them up.

00:50:32.720 Well, that's not just happening. That's orchestrated. That's deliberate.

00:50:39.280 You sound like the biggest conspiracy theorist ever. Who are they that are orchestrating?

00:50:45.820 I'm only playing. No, I know. I know. Well, this is, it's easy to see the patterns. And when these

00:50:53.180 patterns emerge, um, they lead you to strategies and to tactics. And, uh, none of those things just

00:51:02.240 happen on their own. That's not how real life works. So yes, conspiracy is a conspiracy theorist

00:51:08.560 is a label that is used to silence people and shut people up. And you're only a conspiracy theorist,

00:51:14.600 by the way, if you're a conservative or you're on the right or what you're saying is something

00:51:18.760 that echoes on the right or that people on the right agree with. It hurts the left. It hurts

00:51:24.460 the left. Well, and you know, particularly hurts the progressive movement because, um, because

00:51:30.280 I think there are, you know, there are a lot of people in the middle. There are a lot of people

00:51:33.820 on the left, on the right who would want to have these conversations, be willing to have them

00:51:38.280 if they could. We should define, I, I look at the left as the, the, the scary group of people that

00:51:44.880 don't, that are not looking for, uh, uh, a new American, uh, you know, chapter. They're looking,

00:51:53.100 America is bad. Shut it down. I say that's left. Then from that is the progressive autocratic kind of

00:52:00.320 left, then the liberal. I see medium. So that's to me, that's my spectrum. That's why I use that.

00:52:07.200 So, um, what I find when I go to different places in this country, they can be cities,

00:52:16.460 they can be towns, they can be big, small, it can be, you know, it can be in California,

00:52:22.080 it can be in Nebraska, it can literally be anywhere. I find that actually, if you're civil

00:52:28.060 and you're honest, most of the time you can get past just about anything. There are, you know,

00:52:35.140 I do have my red lines and my red lines are real. Right. Um, but, and, but when the, when the

00:52:42.800 conversation just, uh, disintegrates into, uh, emotion, that's when you know that you're not

00:52:50.660 dealing. Yes, it's over. You're not dealing in the realm where someone wants to have a conversation

00:52:54.280 of substance. And look at that, look at that as in the context of a smear campaign and pressure

00:53:00.640 tactics and propaganda, right? Look how that happens all the time. I, you know, go back and

00:53:06.460 read the document produced in nine in, uh, uh, I think it was 2012 about, uh, gun control and how to

00:53:13.280 guide people through, um, that, that movement, um, to make your case. It literally says in there,

00:53:20.180 don't take on this argument, don't take on the second amendment argument, don't take on this

00:53:25.980 because that doesn't work. Um, use the emotional argument. It's, you know, and there's, and that's

00:53:31.740 the playbook and it's the playbook across all different kinds of platforms. And, and you know

00:53:37.660 how I can prove this isn't a conspiracy because those documents exist, exist, read, um, the,

00:53:44.220 the strategic plan for media matters for America in the wake of Donald Trump's election.

00:53:48.460 Look at their editorial priorities. Well, thank you for reading that.

00:53:53.920 Well, and I wish, I don't understand how so many people affected by this, haven't, um, read it and

00:54:00.300 familiarized themselves with it because look at the editorial priorities. They line up with every

00:54:04.620 single thing that the, that has dominated, uh, the news media since Trump's election. There is,

00:54:11.380 um, his conflicts of interests, his collusion with Russia. He's not, he's got the legal mandate,

00:54:17.280 but not, uh, the popular mandate. Um, the popular, he won the popular vote. He's not,

00:54:23.580 uh, the legitimate president. He's the least popular president in history. I mean,

00:54:27.900 one after another, after another, you can see, um, all of these stories, you can see where they

00:54:33.140 originated. This happened before any of these actions were taken. The Supreme court is in there.

00:54:39.740 Supreme court nominees opposing everything this administration does in the court.

00:54:43.120 Look at what's happening in the courts. Why is it? Why isn't that being talked about?

00:54:48.500 So, um, you know, you, you look, you look at these things and, um, to me, it's becoming more and

00:54:58.460 more obvious to me. I'm now going, Oh, come on dummies. You're not this stupid America. You're

00:55:06.800 Democrats. I know you, I live next door to you. Uh, you're not a stupid person. You love the

00:55:13.700 country. I'm seeing people like Bernie Sanders and I'm seeing the audience in the debates,

00:55:20.220 boo capitalism, uh, stand against all of the things that are fundamentally American that I

00:55:28.820 know you as a Democrat, you're not a communist. You're not a socialist. You don't want to get rid

00:55:34.740 of wall street. You, you want some reforms. You want to clean things up, but that's not who you

00:55:39.180 are. When are they waking up or do they, or are they, do you see anybody waking up?

00:55:46.740 You know what I see from, from my experience? I mean, the yes, capitalism offers many opportunities,

00:55:54.140 but what was I just saying? It's also about hard work, right? And anyone living the American dream

00:56:00.360 knows what a struggle it can be. Right. And it's exhausting. And, um, and for me, you know, I'm,

00:56:07.980 I at least have a lot of, uh, great things in my life that make up for that struggle that make it

00:56:12.380 worthwhile. Not everybody does. Right. I can see light at the end of the tunnel. I get to do amazing

00:56:18.220 things. Um, not everybody does. So what I see is that, um, these ideas, they're incredible ideas.

00:56:26.480 Who wants, um, anyone to, to, to die because they can't afford medical care. Who wants any child to

00:56:33.960 go to school hungry? Who wants, um, who believes that being saddled with, you know, extraordinary

00:56:39.140 amounts of debt and, um, an education that makes you unemployable, that renders you almost useless

00:56:45.280 and, and no ability to pay. Who thinks that's a good idea? Who wouldn't give free healthcare,

00:56:50.120 free, uh, college tuition? Wouldn't you want all of that? Yes. As ideas, of course, they catch fire,

00:56:57.420 especially with the youth because they're great ideas. And, um, and I, I believe in all of those

00:57:04.120 things, but there's a moment when reality comes up against ideas, right? And that's what you're

00:57:11.240 talking about. And, um, that's not what many people who escape into that world want to address.

00:57:20.120 Because it's just hard. What's the other thing that those ideas really do? They take responsibility

00:57:27.640 away from the individual and personal responsibility is one of the most exhausting and important and

00:57:34.800 powerful things ever. In fact, if anything defines this country and, and, and Western civilization,

00:57:41.560 in a sense, it's personal responsibility. Taxes, not, not a big thing, not popular across the

00:57:47.900 Middle East and, you know, and Afghanistan and places like that. Right. And in many parts of Africa,

00:57:53.980 I mean, people just look at you like, you know, of course, uh, of course, you know, anything we can

00:57:58.820 do to not pay taxes. I don't, nobody likes paying taxes, but you know, in, in this country, you accept

00:58:04.760 that, you know, paying your taxes is a critical part of, you know, of funding, um, the country and the,

00:58:13.060 and the lifestyle and, you know, the values that you believe in. Right. Hmm. Not so much. Right. You

00:58:18.340 try, uh, in Afghanistan, it's a badge of honor to get out of paying any possible tax of any

00:58:23.980 description. So, so it's easy to see how people, it's not that, that people are standing up saying,

00:58:29.840 I reject everything that America is. It's more, it's more that this idea is like a lifeline in a way.

00:58:36.400 I, um, I think, oh, we homeschooled our children. Oh, good. Oh, mighty. That's a lot of work. Yeah.

00:58:47.780 Can you cut me some slack? And I had very little to do with this, mainly my wife, but good heavens.

00:58:54.380 I think when people say I can't homeschool, there are some who can't, they really can't,

00:59:00.480 but I think there's a lot of parents that don't, they don't want to, and they don't, and they,

00:59:07.520 they'd rather just this idea of having your kids, having them taken, uh, and they're,

00:59:14.500 they're in school for a few hours, you know, eight hours a day. I can do my thing. Somebody else is

00:59:19.480 teaching. They don't, they think there's a partnership there. They don't see that as a possible

00:59:28.060 adversarial role. Uh, the school is playing, you know what I mean? And they're kind of,

00:59:33.360 and it's, it's a relief. I, I don't, I don't have time to do it. I don't know if I'm qualified to do

00:59:40.300 it. So just take them, educate them and bring them back. And we have this naive trust that, well,

00:59:48.140 we're all on the same page. We all believe the same thing. They're not going to teach them anything

00:59:52.220 harmful and we're sending them into the lion's den now. Well, it's very interesting point. And,

00:59:58.960 you know, the way you put it like that, I mean, I will say we homeschooled my son. I say homeschooled,

01:00:04.860 that's so dishonest in a way, because actually I found a fabulous woman to teach my child for a year,

01:00:10.860 um, until she said, okay, I've reached the end of what they, they talked and they agreed it was time.

01:00:16.620 He wanted to go back to school because he wanted that social part of it. And my son is, is, um,

01:00:21.460 incredibly smart, um, off the charts, but also severely dyslexic. So he's always been in that

01:00:29.640 difficult place where he's, um, so far beyond his, uh, peers in many respects, but also so far behind

01:00:37.700 and he's painfully aware of it. So he was, you know, we were very, um, worried about him, uh, and doing

01:00:44.520 the right things for him, not, not, you know, messing it up from the start. But I can honestly

01:00:49.260 tell you that if I was the one homeschooling him or my husband, I mean, that child would not be

01:00:54.180 reading right now because it's just, I mean, we're just not built to be able to do it. However, I agree,

01:01:01.280 um, completely with you that this idea of a partnership is misplaced in many respects.

01:01:08.340 And I see it under the system that we have now. It's better with private schools because private,

01:01:13.760 many private schools are forcing the parents to come in. No, no, no, we're not here to babysit.

01:01:19.960 You got to come in. You have to volunteer. You have to be part of it. You know, there's that

01:01:24.740 partnership, but public school is. I fail on all of those counts. I just want to say, but I do my best,

01:01:31.400 but, um, but well, the thing that, um, I find so staggering is, you know, to have my, my children

01:01:37.420 at age six talking about, um, sexuality and gender. And I'm like, wow. I mean, I haven't even

01:01:44.760 had a chance to talk to them about, about that, you know, it's sort of, and then you start to

01:01:48.780 realize, um, uh, that that partnership is really not, uh, just a partnership. It's something else.

01:01:56.620 You're, you, but you know, the world that they live in, that's also the world that they live in.

01:02:01.620 So I try really hard, you know, with my children just to be, um, as, as brutally, um, honest as I

01:02:08.940 can and not hide away from things. And, and we get into it sometimes. I mean, even though they're

01:02:13.660 nine and 11 and 15. No, I think kids now are much more wise, uh, much more, uh, aware of things,

01:02:26.980 not necessarily wise, worldwide. My son rescued a, um, a baby bird and you know, we did all the

01:02:34.800 things with it and then he wanted to give it a name. And he said to me, uh, I said, what are you

01:02:40.660 going to call it? And he said, well, I don't know mom, but it'd have to be a transgender name because

01:02:45.860 we don't know if it's a boy or a girl. And I said, for crying in a bucket child, this bird is either a

01:02:52.780 boy or a girl, pick it, pick one. Um, can we go back to politics and Ukraine? What was that all

01:03:03.720 about? Sure. Well, we, there's still a lot we don't know. And so I hesitate. I don't want to

01:03:12.500 sound like I'm stating things definitively. The signs, uh, are all there though. Um, one of the

01:03:19.080 big indicators that I've learned to recognize from experience is that the, the, the louder the

01:03:27.380 protest, uh, the stronger, the cry, the bigger, the crime, you really, um, you really have to wonder

01:03:40.060 why, why it's so important that we don't have a conversation about this, that we don't talk about

01:03:47.360 this. Um, and that we look somewhere else. There's two, it's, it's, if you have, if you take the

01:03:53.740 politics out of it, and I know that a lot of people, you know, just don't, won't see it that

01:03:58.680 way. But for me, what are the principles that you're looking at here? You know, and there's, um,

01:04:04.840 there's a very, there, there's a, an overwhelming amount of evidence and indicators, um,

01:04:12.940 that what was happening there was, was worth looking at.

01:04:20.280 Um, you said at one point, I don't remember which podcast you were on, but you were on a

01:04:24.660 podcast, a conservative, and, uh, I think you took on Barack Obama and you, you questioned

01:04:33.040 Afghanistan, I think his policies are the Taliban, I think. And, uh, you stated, well, this is,

01:04:40.860 you know, this is the end of my career being. Yes, this is, uh, this is professional suicide.

01:04:45.640 That wasn't, that wasn't just, um, taking on that. That was where I, where I talked about

01:04:50.640 journalists, journalists, most journalists being, you know, liberal or Democrat. Um,

01:04:58.160 maybe kind of just gotten past that now. Are you, I mean, you talk about, you should a journalist

01:05:05.480 talk about politics? I mean, if I asked you what you think about Donald Trump, should you answer that?

01:05:11.980 Well, my answer to that has always been, when I'm, uh, when I'm reporting and I'm in my role as a

01:05:18.820 journalist, I, um, I have a responsibility to make sure that I separate opinion from facts. And, and

01:05:27.940 because there's only one truth, there's only really one set of facts. We either sat here and had this

01:05:33.480 conversation or we didn't. Right. And people like to say, no, the truth depends on where you come

01:05:38.620 from or, you know, what the color of your skin and whatever. No, actually it really doesn't your

01:05:42.860 perception of it. You know, how you feel about it. Right. That's is affected by those things,

01:05:48.160 but the actual, the truth itself, there's only one. Right. Right. And so, um, it's a, it's a

01:05:53.780 misunderstanding of the advertising, um, the advertising, uh, idea of reality. Um, what is

01:06:02.840 it? Um, perception is reality. No, it's not, it's not in advertising. It might be, but in truth,

01:06:10.400 it's not, you can make it feel real, right, but it's still not real. Yes. And that's our refuge as

01:06:16.140 journalists, right? That's what protects us from our own bias is that that's the thing that we're

01:06:20.980 working to find. And if you stick with that and just go wherever that thing called the truth,

01:06:26.340 wherever it takes you, that's what to me defines us at our core. I mean, the best of us, right?

01:06:33.400 That's what a journalist at your best, that's what you aspire to be. And, um, and, and so that's how I

01:06:40.120 got into trouble because I'm not a political operative and I'm not a political activist.

01:06:44.720 And in fact, I'm not an activist. I'm a journalist and I'm not a lawyer in a court of law trying to prove

01:06:49.900 something is true or not true. And, um, and I'm, you know, I'm not a strategist. I am a journalist.

01:06:56.520 That's what I do. So, um, and that's so, it's so important because

01:07:02.160 I've always said that everything I've done in my career, no matter who I've worked for,

01:07:09.540 whether it was at a newspaper in South Africa or at 60 minutes, I do my job the same way. I'm still

01:07:15.520 looking for the same thing. It's called the truth. And, um, and I have enormous respect and I'm so,

01:07:22.080 I'm very grateful to have worked where I have worked, have been at 60 minutes, but at the end

01:07:26.760 of the day, I never really worked for 60 minutes or CBS. What I worked for was that thing that I was

01:07:32.280 pursuing that every journalist who's looking for that and cares about that wants to find. And what

01:07:37.900 people want us to believe is that there's two separate sets of facts. There really aren't two

01:07:43.360 separate sets of facts. There's only one truth. And if you separate your opinion from what you know

01:07:48.300 to be true, then I think that that's fair enough. As a journalist, we do it all the time at 60 minutes,

01:07:54.380 what we would say, we'd do things like, um, we'd say, you know, um, over the week we spent with so

01:08:00.520 and so, um, what we noticed was, or in all the time we've been covering the war in Afghanistan,

01:08:06.640 19 years now, um, we'd never encountered anything like this, right? So, so you're the audience can

01:08:14.980 tell the viewer knows you're giving your opinion, your observation. I love how people say journalists

01:08:20.820 are not supposed to ever give their opinion. I was savaged for it when I, um, made a speech in

01:08:26.380 Chicago at the Better Government Association. And the speech, actually, I spent an hour and a half

01:08:30.800 talking about the return of Al Qaeda to Afghanistan, which is a story I'd just done on 60 minutes.

01:08:35.340 I made, um, a passing reference, uh, to Benghazi. That was brief. I said, you know, that, that I,

01:08:43.280 I think I said something like, I hope we're doing more about Benghazi than, than we say we are.

01:08:48.740 There's some hope there's something we don't know about, because if you're not, you're sending a

01:08:51.700 message of weakness to your enemies, not one of strength. And considering that that was the first

01:08:56.320 U.S. ambassador murdered in over half a century, um, that was the basis on which I was saying that

01:09:03.020 and the basis, the context was that the administration at the time was saying Al Qaeda

01:09:08.240 was finished and done and diminished and over created this false thing called, where is it

01:09:12.660 core Al Qaeda? As if the core of Al Qaeda, you know, was only in Afghanistan. And that's the only

01:09:18.260 thing that mattered, except there was no core. And the number three in Al Qaeda was in Yemen

01:09:22.460 and had never been in Afghanistan, never been based there. So, I mean, it was all just a pack of,

01:09:27.060 of, of, of political, uh, dishonesty and deceit. And they focused on that comment about Benghazi

01:09:34.700 and use that to, to smear and target me later when I covered Benghazi and say, you see, she

01:09:41.480 was biased and right wing and a conspiracy theorist from the start. And she should never

01:09:45.740 have been able, she should never have reported on that story. Well, good Lord, if that's the

01:09:50.240 standard, what about all these journalists being asked for their analysis? We call it analysis

01:09:54.740 and we check the box and say, okay, we're still objective journalists, not giving our

01:09:58.860 opinion. We're just giving our analysis. And that is, you can give analysis based on your

01:10:04.000 reporting and that can be separate from fact, but that's a real gray area there. And, uh,

01:10:10.820 to say those are mutually exclusive concepts is, uh, is that's giving yourself a free pass

01:10:16.860 to me. Right. And if you look at newspapers, they have opinion pages. In fact, the Washington

01:10:22.020 Post's opinion pages have exploded, right? They've expanded the number of them. There's,

01:10:27.180 um, there's just about as much opinion in the Washington Post today as there is news. And

01:10:31.800 in fact, and then if you add the fact that the, uh, the news reporting is infused with

01:10:36.240 opinion that's presented as fact, then, uh, you know, you're getting into crazy numbers.

01:10:41.460 It's almost all opinion. And what could be more dishonest than to present your opinion as

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01:12:05.160 Okay. Deductible may apply. What's the future of the media?

01:12:09.380 I always say I'm not a prophet when I get asked questions like that. What's the future? What's

01:12:13.620 going to happen in the war? I don't know. I'm going to look at my crystal ball. What should I know, Glenn?

01:12:19.940 I don't know. I'm not a prophet. I mean, when I say that too, I'm also not a visionary. I don't,

01:12:24.940 I, I'm, I'm the guy you send in when you want to know what the hell's going on.

01:12:29.540 Yeah. That's me. So let's approach it that way. Um, back in 2005, I started seeing real signs of,

01:12:40.000 of division and trouble coming in the country. And I started doing my homework and I, I read up and

01:12:45.560 studied as much as I could on revolutions in countries and how they start and how they're

01:12:50.700 fomented and what, you know, what things do you need to control to be able to do it? And I just

01:12:57.260 been checking the list and I can tell you where we are, you know, based on that, that doesn't mean

01:13:02.340 I know what's going to happen. It's just, I can see this progression. And by watching it,

01:13:08.300 if I were in the belly of the beast, I would know even more. You're in the belly of the beast.

01:13:14.020 Is there, is there a sense that, because what has to happen is a great humbling for all of us,

01:13:22.440 a great humbling. Is there a sense of, gosh, I mean, are we part of the problem? Is there any

01:13:31.280 sense of, do you see it? I don't, I'm asking you, you, but do you see it? I mean, if it was there,

01:13:37.380 you would see it. If it was there, then, uh, everyone who published false accounts of what

01:13:45.600 happened at the Lincoln Memorial with Nick Sandman and Nathan Phillips, they would have,

01:13:49.860 they would not have revised their stories and doubled down and then looked at other

01:13:55.640 ways to criticize, you know, privileged kids and Catholic kids at Catholic schools and this and

01:14:01.680 that. And, Oh, and don't, never, don't even, you know, don't even go to the, the, the red hat.

01:14:06.400 Right. So where you would see that accountability, you would see news organizations that took that,

01:14:13.640 that were awarded Pulitzer prizes for their reporting on Russia, Russian collusion,

01:14:20.900 the non-existent collusion. You would see news organizations standing up and saying, you know

01:14:25.260 what? Uh, we're not okay with this. We're not okay with this anymore. You would not see John

01:14:31.980 Brennan and Clapper being paid to comment on the things that they have a vested interest in shaping

01:14:40.120 and steering and lying about. You would not see, you would not see the same thing happening with

01:14:47.440 Ukraine that you saw happening with Russian collusion. You would not see Adam Schiff be given a platform

01:14:55.600 across the media space without being challenged. How, how can you not challenge him when he says

01:15:04.460 things that you now know to not be true? How can you allow Maxine Waters to go on and still talk

01:15:11.700 about Trump as if he is a, a Russian agent for Vladimir Putin and as if the entire Mueller

01:15:19.380 investigation never happened and Horowitz's report never happened and still see people cite Carter Page

01:15:26.420 as if he's a Russian spy when he was actually an American spy, right? How can that be happening?

01:15:34.960 Now I'm just, oh, I'm burying myself once again, as I think about the, the story I'm doing on, um,

01:15:43.100 that is about the way people who believe and feel that they've been left out of the media conversation

01:15:49.500 in this country for the longest time because their views, um, don't fit with the liberal worldview that

01:15:56.380 most journalists have. I'm doing a story looking at the media from their point of view. It's their

01:16:02.440 story. The media's point of view or the people who've been left out. So I mean, I hit just about

01:16:09.880 every, I hit every possible nuclear issue that you can think about. I mean, from, from anti-abortion

01:16:20.920 or pro-life, however you, whatever you want to call it to, uh, Russia, to Ukraine, to, uh, Antifa. Um,

01:16:30.620 I mean, if, if I, I know, I know the attack is coming and this one has to be bigger and it has to be,

01:16:38.540 um, worse and it has to be more effective. And, and they, they don't, when they come for you,

01:16:44.120 they don't just want you to lose your job. They want you to lose everything, everything, everything,

01:16:49.560 your, your reputation, your future, your ability to feed your children, to keep a roof over your head.

01:16:58.040 They want to annihilate you. I think they call it cancel culture. So I know, I know it's coming and

01:17:03.560 this is treacherous ground and it's hard. I am very uncomfortable reporting on, um, my own profession.

01:17:11.560 And as you know, especially my opinions out there on this, I've said a lot about it. And so, um, I have

01:17:18.340 to take that into account and it's fraught with conflicts of interest and the new smear, right?

01:17:22.220 Have you seen it? They're using it on John Solomon. He didn't properly disclose his conflicts of

01:17:27.200 interest. So it's not enough to disclose it. Someone is going to make a subjective judgment about whether

01:17:32.380 it's properly disclosed or not. And he wasn't, and, and he did some journalistic things like

01:17:39.940 calling for calling sources and. No, but that doesn't count. No, no, no, no. That doesn't

01:17:45.260 count. No, no, no, no. What document? No, I don't know. Don't look at the document. Right.

01:17:50.560 Solomon is compromised and he's, uh, and he's not disclosed his conflicts of interest and he's

01:17:55.380 toxic and you don't want to touch him. Right. I'm doing to you what you did to me. I know. But the,

01:17:59.620 but the Hill is actually saying that because he did that, because he actually was stepping

01:18:07.620 into the circle of a journalist and saying, this is not just my opinion. I reached out and I talked

01:18:13.940 to this person and this person and this person, and here's what they said. That was a compromise.

01:18:19.500 Oh, wait. So what they're saying is if you don't do any journalism and you just write whatever you

01:18:25.220 want. That's okay. Apparently that's, that's you're good to go. Right. But because Connie giving

01:18:31.120 your opinion in the New York times, uh, on their editorial page. Wow. I mean, that's like,

01:18:38.260 well, you see, it's that I always say, this is one of my rules. When one plus one doesn't equal

01:18:45.660 to something's up because if it conflicts with the way, you know, it works in the natural world,

01:18:53.640 it's not natural. You said something at the beginning of the interview that

01:19:00.620 stuck with me. I'm an alcoholic. Uh, and I remembered when my whole life burned down

01:19:07.440 and I had nothing. And, uh, the only thing besides my family, the only thing that I wanted back

01:19:16.680 was my name, my, my word to be able to look somebody in the eye and go, this is true. This

01:19:25.520 is what I believe. Alcoholics lie themselves into everything. And so you find yourself and

01:19:33.520 you realize you could take everything away, everything. But if I lose my word, I have nothing.

01:19:43.580 Hmm. You said at the beginning of the interview that you, um, I don't remember exactly how you

01:19:51.040 phrased it, but you felt in the square that you didn't die. You, you won, you, you, you lived

01:20:01.420 that day and you spoke about in a way your word that you have. That's, that's all you have. And

01:20:10.880 that's, that's all you have. And when somebody tries to take that from you, you know, especially,

01:20:15.740 I mean, everybody knows, um, that with sexual violence and sexual crimes and rape, that that's

01:20:23.500 what it's about. Everybody knows that it's, it's the basis of the entire Me Too movement.

01:20:28.260 But isn't that also what, what is happening when you said they don't want to just destroy

01:20:36.620 you. They want to take everything you have. That's right. The fastest way is to betray

01:20:42.120 yourself. Oh, they want you to betray yourself. Oh, cause that's the biggest prize of all.

01:20:46.980 If they can bury you with your own words and your own actions, that's the Olympic gold.

01:20:53.600 Or get you to come along, just get you to come along and say, you know what? I thought

01:21:00.500 this, I think this play along. Isn't that take you, doesn't that, doesn't that crush your

01:21:05.600 soul and who you are? If you just, if you know.

01:21:08.760 Oh no, you know what it's called. There's a tactic. It's a, it's, I'll tell you exactly

01:21:12.420 what it is. When they have you on the ground, in the dirt, on your back with nothing and their

01:21:19.100 foot is on your throat. They reach forward with one hand and they see if you take it.

01:21:26.840 And if you take it, you're theirs forever. You can have it all back. You can have the,

01:21:33.100 the glory, the recognition. You can be, you know, wined and dined in Washington. You can

01:21:39.040 get every award that your industry has to offer. You can have it all if you take the hand. And

01:21:46.000 if you don't take it, they never stop coming. That's the story of Jesus in the desert with

01:21:51.640 the devil, with Satan, where I'll give you everything at his most broken place. I'll

01:21:58.740 give you everything. You can have it all. Just do this one thing. Just say this one thing.

01:22:04.320 So you know who didn't take the hand?

01:22:05.920 Mike Flynn didn't take the hand. You can see who did. Just name him among his peers. Who

01:22:16.500 did? Who took the hand? There's a few of them, right? And I will say full disclosure here,

01:22:24.700 Mike Flynn, I've known Mike Flynn for a long time and I love him and respect him and his family.

01:22:31.840 He is a great man. And I, I, without ever knowing any of the details I knew from the very first moment

01:22:41.740 that Mike Flynn never lied. That man has, uh, doesn't, doesn't have that DNA. He has that most

01:22:51.840 underrated quality of consistency. He is always the same. And he must have been the greatest threat

01:23:03.080 outside of Donald Trump because they went for him first.

01:23:06.540 Can I just ask you about your husband?

01:23:13.000 Yes.

01:23:15.220 He, tell me about him.

01:23:17.360 Well.

01:23:17.740 Who did you marry?

01:23:18.820 Who did I marry?

01:23:20.140 I mean, as a, you don't have to give me the name, you know, just tell me.

01:23:23.500 It's so funny that you ask about him because, um, because, uh, the Daily Beast just tried to smear him

01:23:30.400 and, and target him and it's, uh, and there was a celebration on Twitter. This article is ridiculous.

01:23:36.380 It's just a total joke.

01:23:37.660 How do you handle that? My wife, if somebody came after my wife, I would go out of my mind.

01:23:43.760 Oh, well, there's, there's not a single thing in there about my husband, uh, besides his name.

01:23:49.260 That's actually accurate. Not, not a single thing. It's just, uh, a joke. And, um, they,

01:23:55.600 they've been going after my husband for a while, but you know, he's a big boy.

01:23:59.380 He can take care of, he can take care of himself.

01:24:01.840 In public life?

01:24:02.880 No. He was, um, in the, in the army for 23 years and, uh, and he's retired and all he does is get on my nerves.

01:24:14.180 Oh, and wait, and get in my way.

01:24:16.240 Yeah.

01:24:18.600 Oh, no, I'm just kidding. Of course, you know that, um, uh, my, my husband, uh, has been at my side through

01:24:26.940 thick and thin through everything. He picked up the pieces of the, you know, the, out of the dirt

01:24:33.360 of Tahrir Square and through breast cancer and through, uh, my father is very ill and he's, you know,

01:24:41.400 my husband and through all the, through all the children and he's committed, uh, to his family.

01:24:46.520 And he is, he is, uh, a decorated, uh, veteran actually who, um, spent many, many years deployed.

01:24:56.360 Um, I met him in Afghanistan and we didn't, uh, you know, we didn't fall in love until

01:25:02.900 my last few months of being in Iraq. They tried to say that my husband, they tried to discredit

01:25:08.780 at my work by saying that my, you know, suggesting that my husband was feeding me stories in Iraq.

01:25:13.840 And of course, you know, I lived there five years and he was there for about the last eight

01:25:17.600 months and I hadn't seen him for years or even talk to him. You know, it's just such a joke

01:25:22.780 the way they do this. But, um, but my husband is the recipient. He'll hate this, that I'm talking

01:25:28.560 about this. He's the recipient of the soldier's medal, which I don't know if you're familiar

01:25:32.540 with it, but it is the highest award for valor, um, in peacetime. Wow. And it's the least awarded

01:25:39.380 medal of all. And you have to have, um, put your own life at such significant risk of dying

01:25:46.940 in order to save someone else's life. And that other person has to be, um, inescapably on the,

01:25:54.600 in peril, in peril that were it not for your action, that person would be dead. Um, that's the sort

01:26:01.640 of the standard for it. You know, it's funny. I once, uh, he was asked that once by a group

01:26:06.040 of Sergeant majors when he was, um, when he was being interviewed for a position in their

01:26:11.440 unit. And, um, what he said was, well, you know, uh, I don't remember a whole lot. And

01:26:19.540 so they were like, well, you know, tell us what you remember. And he said, well, I, I,

01:26:23.080 he was in a subway in DC at the time he was working in, uh, at Fort Belvoir and, uh, he was

01:26:29.660 in uniform because he was on his way home and a woman, uh, fell onto the tracks and,

01:26:35.060 um, cut her head open. And as the train was coming and, um, he said, basically, I don't

01:26:40.280 remember anything after that. And obviously what people witnessed him do was to get down

01:26:45.480 in front of that train and nobody knew, nobody understood how he survived. He, she was, I

01:26:51.240 think, not able to, you know, she couldn't move. And so he picked her up and gave it to

01:26:55.860 the people, black passengers on the platform and, and made it barely made it, um, out of

01:27:01.020 there. But actually people in the subway, um, reported that to the Pentagon and they spent

01:27:08.020 a few weeks tracking him down. And his mother was his mother. My mother and all fellow Sam

01:27:13.480 was at home in, I think, Kerrville, Texas, when she got a phone call saying, you know, is

01:27:18.080 this, is this person, your son? And was he, you know, in this place? And she was, she had

01:27:23.640 no idea. I don't know. They had to find him, to let him know.

01:27:28.840 And he didn't tell anybody?

01:27:30.760 No.

01:27:30.960 The family?

01:27:32.240 No. You know, people act these days as if, um, as if there's no such thing as any respect

01:27:40.500 or regard for, uh, secrecy or classified information. And, and that's something that people like my

01:27:48.180 husband take very, very, very, very seriously. I don't know most of what he did in his career.

01:27:55.240 That really doesn't matter. You know?

01:27:57.700 Mm-hmm.

01:28:01.060 Uh, Roger Ailes was interviewing me for Fox and, uh, I had had dinner with him a couple

01:28:09.300 of times, but no, we never talked about business. And, um, and he says, uh, I want to meet with

01:28:16.600 you. I want to talk to you about a job. So I went and had dinner. I think I lost 15 pounds

01:28:22.160 that night.

01:28:22.700 Why?

01:28:23.560 It was the craziest damn interview ever. He, the first question he asked me was, what do

01:28:29.740 you think of the 1972 peace of courts with, uh, Nixon in China? And I'm like, I don't know.

01:28:36.500 And I said, not up to speed on that. And then he said, tell me, tell me, uh, what you think

01:28:49.640 the greatest achievement of the Eisenhower administration was. And I looked at him, I

01:28:54.900 sat there and I thought, and I said, Roger, I could play this one of two ways. I could bluff

01:29:02.240 and talk about his farewell speech. Uh, but I know you'd know I'm bluffing. I could do

01:29:09.220 that and roll the dice or I could just say, I don't know.

01:29:13.440 I've never thought about it.

01:29:14.280 Never thought about it and probably destroy the interview. And he said, what are you going

01:29:20.100 to choose? And I said, well, I've already chosen at that point for option number two.

01:29:24.760 And, uh, he sat there and he said nothing to me for 10 minutes, dead silence for 10 minutes.

01:29:30.860 Wow. He pushed me up against the wall on everything. I mean, just, and I thought I'll

01:29:39.240 never see this man again. And he got up and he said, what I would like to say to you,

01:29:45.160 it is really, truly rare to sit down with someone who knows what they believe, knows who they are,

01:29:56.760 willing to admit what they don't know. It's a pleasure speaking to you. Thank you.

01:30:06.200 That was very classy. It's true. Thank you. It's, it's, uh, it is rare. Shouldn't be.

01:30:14.580 But it is, it is only people who are truly comfortable in their skin are willing to do

01:30:21.600 that. You only get one skin. You only got one. So, you know, there's a few things that change.

01:30:29.860 Always used to say, I want to be taller. Now I'm, you know, older and fatter and I can't

01:30:35.120 see anything unless I've got a spotlight on it. My children tell me I'm not fat. You're not fat,

01:30:42.060 mom. My children tell me I am. I pay mine. I bribe them relentlessly.

01:30:49.480 I keep telling them they're only going to get my best regards and my will. So,

01:30:53.420 you know, you'll love this. My son says to me a couple of days ago, Hey mom, mom, who's this guy?

01:31:00.920 Mike, Mike, what's his name? Bloomberg or something. He said, that guy gets shit done, mom.

01:31:07.520 I said, what? He said, Oh no, I, I get his ads all the time. Let me tell you, Mike gets shit done.

01:31:16.480 I was like, you're 11. And my 15 year old's like, who? Mike, who?

01:31:24.700 Classic, right?

01:31:26.180 Thank you.

01:31:26.620 Just a reminder. I'd love you to rate and subscribe to the podcast and pass this on to a friend so it

01:31:39.500 can be discovered by other people.

01:31:56.860 I um.

01:32:00.400 Bye.

01:32:00.420 Bye.

01:32:01.520 Bye.

01:32:05.580 Bye.

01:32:06.580 Bye.

01:32:07.420 Bye.

01:32:08.720 Bye.

01:32:10.260 Bye.

01:32:10.820 Bye.

01:32:18.020 Bye.

01:32:19.160 Bye.

01:32:20.020 Bye.

01:32:25.500 Bye.

01:32:25.660 Bye.

The Glenn Beck Program - March 14, 2020

Ep 71 ｜ ‘I’m Done Apologizing for Living in a Sea of Red’ ｜ Lara Logan ｜ The Glenn Beck Podcast

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