The Glenn Beck Program - Ep 89 ｜ This Brit Has a Dire Warning for America ｜ Douglas Murray ｜ The Glenn Beck Podcast

00:00:00.000 Today's podcast is one you are going to I'm telling you, there's like three places in this where our guest just goes and you're going to want to save it and listen to it every day.

00:00:14.240 It's incredible.

00:00:16.640 On Monday, the New York Times ran a dubious story about French President Emmanuel Macron.

00:00:23.600 They called him the French Donald Trump because he had the audacity to criticize the American media for supporting Islamic terrorism.

00:00:34.360 Macron used to be their guy, remember?

00:00:37.340 But he committed the sin of nationalism, criticism, freedom of thought. 0.99

00:00:43.220 Apparently, in the left's version of reality, you're just supposed to let Muslim terrorists decapitate your citizens. 0.97

00:00:49.560 A vengeful dogmatism has overtaken the left and it threatens to destroy liberalism as we know it, erasing the ideas, the methods and the values that have guided us for centuries. 0.92

00:01:05.100 And as you will find out today, we are leading the rest of the world.

00:01:09.520 The rest of the world, the left in the rest of the world is actually pushing back on some of this stuff.

00:01:16.640 We're leading it.

00:01:17.580 There's a great book called The Madness of Crowds.

00:01:21.140 It's written by Douglas Murray, and he writes about this spirit of accusation, claim, grudge that has just overtaken Western society.

00:01:30.340 Well, Douglas is a guy that the left can't stand him, which has become an incredible compliment, quite honestly, for any of my friends and anybody I respect.

00:01:41.780 He regularly faces death threats for his views. 0.99

00:01:45.120 The associate editor of Britain's Spectator magazine is living a life in a way of Jason Bourne, and he doesn't give a flying crap. 0.98

00:01:55.540 His goal is to give you permission to think differently. 0.96

00:01:59.100 And boy, are you going to.

00:02:00.760 Now is the perfect time to talk to Douglas Murray.

00:02:05.420 He just came back from a several month trip here in the United States.

00:02:10.320 And it's better to talk to him now than it even was over the summer when the riots were at their worst, when the madness of the crowds was on display.

00:02:19.140 Riots are supposed to happen in the summer, right?

00:02:23.140 But wars, wars bleed into the winter.

00:02:27.400 I talked to him about what's happening in America, what he experienced.

00:02:31.900 And is there a war on our horizon?

00:02:35.880 As we saw this past weekend, maybe.

00:02:39.580 Please welcome Douglas Murray to the Glenn Beck podcast.

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00:04:00.820 Douglas, are we at war with each other?

00:04:18.040 Are we at war with ideas or war with elite?

00:04:23.480 What's happening to us?

00:04:24.860 That's a very good question.

00:04:29.360 Plunge straight in.

00:04:30.860 I've just returned from five weeks in America, and I think it's worse than anyone realizes.

00:04:37.480 I think that, for instance, all this talk about fake news and all that in recent years hasn't even brushed the surface of what's going on in America.

00:04:46.140 The problem in America, if I could put it in a nutshell, is this.

00:04:50.340 It's not that you disagree in America about what's happening.

00:04:53.620 You don't disagree about your interpretations.

00:04:56.000 It's not just that people have different information flows.

00:04:59.180 You can no longer agree in America about what you've just seen with your own eyes.

00:05:03.880 You see the same footage and you come away with different conclusions.

00:05:08.680 And the 2020 election is probably the most dire example to date of that happening.

00:05:16.600 It happened in 2016.

00:05:18.380 Similar things have happened across years.

00:05:20.780 But this, this is the beginning of something new.

00:05:24.320 So what does that mean?

00:05:27.660 I mean, I, I, I, I think this, the problem has been that we've lost our unum.

00:05:35.480 The thing that brought everybody together was liberty and freedom.

00:05:38.880 The idea of constitutional rights.

00:05:42.240 We don't agree on that anymore.

00:05:44.520 So it's, it's not like we're even, but we're not arguing that.

00:05:49.040 Well, so what's happened?

00:05:50.060 How are we not arguing the thing that is really the problem?

00:05:54.320 Uh, it's absolutely everything.

00:05:57.140 I mean, I hadn't been in America for two years, by the way, till this trip.

00:06:00.960 And I just noticed in two years, the marked decline at every single social occasion I was at

00:06:07.300 of Americans not being able to talk across a dinner table without someone losing it.

00:06:13.220 And it goes back to that thing I just said, you, you're no longer agreeing on what you've just seen.

00:06:18.420 But underneath that is another one in America, you no longer agree on what you are as a nation.

00:06:24.320 This is actually the thing which in his slightly inept, I think sometimes way,

00:06:31.340 President Trump tried to address in the Mount Rushmore speech.

00:06:34.700 He said, you know, I'm going to retell the story of our founding fathers,

00:06:39.880 because I think that people are getting the wrong story.

00:06:43.960 Absolutely.

00:06:44.720 That's happening.

00:06:45.400 It's not happened by a sense of gravity or something.

00:06:48.300 It's happened because some people have taught a totally different view of American history.

00:06:52.680 And part of America now believes in the view, which is, you know, we're an exceptional country.

00:06:58.180 We've done exceptional things.

00:06:59.840 You've run, as Jonathan Haidt and others have said, for seven decades off the moral good fuel

00:07:05.820 of winning World War Two.

00:07:07.520 There's nothing since it's been able to unify the country.

00:07:11.320 But if you plunge back into American history and get things that could unify you, they don't work anymore.

00:07:17.160 Because a part of the country says, no, not 1789, 1619.

00:07:23.240 A part of the country says, as famously, your viewers will remember this,

00:07:27.380 the CNN, I think it was, presenter, who said the day of the Mount Rushmore speech,

00:07:32.020 the president tonight is going to stand on stolen land in front of statues of slave owners.

00:07:40.340 If your founding fathers are just slave owners, America's just stolen land.

00:07:46.060 You don't have anything you agree on.

00:07:48.040 You can't agree.

00:07:48.940 So, you know, when Joe Biden gave his acceptance speech, he said that now it's time for unity.

00:07:58.060 And I was scratching my head because I'm thinking, but I don't agree with almost everything that the left is for.

00:08:07.240 And you can't just impose unity.

00:08:10.560 What are you going to do to earn my respect now?

00:08:14.660 I mean, we used to have a respect for the president and the office, but that's long gone.

00:08:21.620 That's long gone.

00:08:22.460 Oh, yeah.

00:08:23.480 Yeah.

00:08:23.820 I mean, unity.

00:08:25.240 I'd like unity on my terms.

00:08:28.040 Right.

00:08:28.440 As long as you agree with me.

00:08:30.780 Yeah.

00:08:31.620 It's like we can have peace on my terms.

00:08:35.480 Right.

00:08:36.760 It doesn't sound to me like an invitation.

00:08:38.920 It sounds like a threat.

00:08:40.480 That's what this is.

00:08:41.360 We will say all sorts of things about the 2016 vote, but you're not allowed to say anything negative about the 2020 vote.

00:08:48.640 Here's an example.

00:08:49.520 The Democrats who spent four years pretending the 2016 vote was somehow rigged by the Russians, something they never showed an iota of evidence that proved it, now have to try to pretend that there is no voting fraud problem in the American voting system.

00:09:03.500 That's a hard one to pull off.

00:09:06.340 Right.

00:09:06.500 That's a very hard one to pull off.

00:09:08.320 But here's an idea.

00:09:09.600 Here's how America could agree on something, because Donald Trump's got to pull off a tricky one as well.

00:09:14.420 He's got to try to prove that not only is there definitely some voting problems and fraud around the edges, but that it's so widespread and organized that actually it reverses the result of the election.

00:09:25.720 It's something I don't think he can do, and I don't think he's been able to show so far, but how about whoever's president after January the 20th inaugurates the commission to work out whether or not the American voting system is actually in any way vulnerable in the way that both parties have now pretended that it is?

00:09:45.700 So a good place to start, but I don't think here's the problem.

00:09:50.420 There's something else in America that we used to believe in truth, justice and the American way.

00:10:00.560 Truth is gone.

00:10:02.740 The American way is obscene to even talk about.

00:10:06.880 And justice no longer prevails because the people at the top, they get away with murder.

00:10:16.700 But I mean, for instance, you guys over in England, I think you had a couple of of your parliamentary members actually resign because they did something during covid.

00:10:31.300 They shouldn't.

00:10:31.800 They were seen going to a party or whatever.

00:10:33.820 You resign us.

00:10:35.680 No, no.

00:10:36.420 Nothing.

00:10:37.500 The kid, the California legislature, while they're shutting it down, is over in a conference in Hawaii and nobody cares.

00:10:46.380 So, yeah, we had a scientist, a scientist who, in classic British fashion, turned out to be getting getting his leg over with his mistress in the other house whilst telling the rest of the nation to be confined to barracks.

00:10:59.020 Right.

00:10:59.320 Yeah.

00:10:59.860 He did resign, albeit he's now back.

00:11:02.360 So, yeah, I wouldn't look at us too fondly on that.

00:11:07.360 Well, we just don't have any trust in a justice system anymore.

00:11:14.040 We believe there are two Americas.

00:11:17.440 I've never believed when for as long as the left has been saying there's two Americas.

00:11:22.180 I've not believed it.

00:11:23.340 Now I do.

00:11:24.880 There are two Americas.

00:11:27.660 Yes.

00:11:28.320 Yeah.

00:11:28.580 As I say, I mean, it starts from the beginning.

00:11:30.300 You don't even agree on when your country started anymore.

00:11:32.720 The New York Times pretends it started in 1619 when the first African slaves are brought in.

00:11:37.460 And another part of the country believes it happens at the time that the Declaration of Independence is signed.

00:11:43.600 And actually, actually, this is the same.

00:11:46.260 This is the same argument we had right before the Civil War in the 19th in the 1850s.

00:11:52.100 People said that it was 1619.

00:11:54.640 The other side said it's 1620.

00:11:57.360 It's the pilgrims that gave us this heritage that raised the founders towards the light.

00:12:04.360 Now we don't even consider the pilgrims.

00:12:08.100 No, I mean, they are.

00:12:10.100 Well, they're reprehensible figures now.

00:12:13.160 We ran a piece in The Spectator in London recently about this, which raised what I still regard as being a rather important question, which is what were the Europeans meant to do after they'd found America?

00:12:25.080 Were they meant to just go back home and say, we found this enormously large landmass, but I don't think it has any potential.

00:12:33.680 It's not a particularly prime piece of real estate.

00:12:38.260 I wouldn't bother with it.

00:12:40.940 Were they meant to return and say, shh, nothing there?

00:12:44.020 You know, people acted in history the way they did.

00:12:47.420 But now, of course, with our current obsession with judging everyone in history, we've come to this decision that all these people were reprehensible people.

00:12:55.820 And here's a key thing, because we've seen this in Europe as well, in Britain and in Europe.

00:13:00.380 If you want to completely change the course of a country's future, the best way is to rewrite its past.

00:13:08.360 It's a very effective way of doing it.

00:13:10.240 You know, in Europe, for good reasons, people were, for the last seven or eight decades, seriously put off nationalism.

00:13:20.140 They were told that everything to do with national identity was dangerous stuff, because if you felt pride, you might end up invading your neighbor and taking a portion of their land.

00:13:31.060 And twice in a century, European nations have done that.

00:13:34.220 And the blame was, I think, slightly erroneously put on nationalism.

00:13:38.720 But ever since, Europeans have been told, in order that they don't go and invade a neighboring country anytime soon, that they can't trust themselves and their histories are dark and bad and untrustworthy and a lot more.

00:13:54.640 That our histories are colonialist, are slave trading and oppressive and much more.

00:13:59.300 And I think it's amazing.

00:14:00.480 I wrote about this a bit in The Strange Death of Europe, which resonated a lot with American readers, I know.

00:14:05.260 I know that exactly the same thing has been done with Americans in our lifetimes.

00:14:11.300 You know, the European sort of distrust of our past, I like to think that Britain was apart from that.

00:14:16.920 But the European continent's distrust of its past had some good reasons.

00:14:21.460 That Americans should be told to completely distrust their past, that they're born into guilt, that the whole of American history is just slavery and oppression and hierarchies of oppression is one of the things at the root of this.

00:14:36.660 Because if you were always awful and horrible and acted reprehensibly, why should anyone trust you in the future?

00:14:43.200 All right. If you are motivated to do something and start speaking out, you need to educate yourself.

00:14:48.740 And I want to talk to you about a new book called Not Free America.

00:14:52.480 It's written by Mike Donovan.

00:14:55.760 He is a guy who has been working in the civil rights field for a long time, started the nation's largest pro bono civil rights law firm.

00:15:04.680 And it didn't start with COVID.

00:15:06.380 It didn't start, you know, around the Tea Party.

00:15:08.740 This has been going on for a long time.

00:15:10.820 Not Free America is his new book.

00:15:14.120 And as he says, the Bill of Rights has been under attack long before any of this stuff was going on.

00:15:21.000 And if you are a person that refuses to surrender your liberty to any earthly power, you need Not Free America.

00:15:28.080 It solves the issue of citizens being used by the government, but it doesn't just tell you about the problems.

00:15:33.960 It is also a solution book.

00:15:35.520 I want you to go to NotFreeAmerica.com, take the Liberty Pledge and order your copy today.

00:15:41.940 Find out how to stop the overreach abuse of our government and what actions you can take to do better.

00:15:48.120 We have to come together.

00:15:50.060 Our unum is freedom, liberty.

00:15:53.960 Let's work together to fix this crisis in America and the rest of the world.

00:15:58.740 It's NotFreeAmerica.com.

00:16:01.820 Take the Liberty Pledge, order your book now.

00:16:04.980 NotFreeAmerica.com.

00:16:06.620 There's a very scholarly book, you probably really enjoy it, called Hitler's Monsters.

00:16:14.940 And it's the first, have you read it?

00:16:17.640 I've heard of it.

00:16:18.320 I've not read it.

00:16:19.000 You should read it.

00:16:19.940 You'd enjoy it.

00:16:20.520 It's really dense.

00:16:21.660 But it's a, the guy who wrote it tried to write the kind of cornerstone of what, how did this happen in Germany?

00:16:34.120 What were the monsters that he called upon?

00:16:36.760 And in reading it, you know, they went back to old ancient myths.

00:16:42.780 They, they went back to witches and, and warlocks and all of these things because they had destroyed the national identity. 1.00

00:16:53.060 They had destroyed God, church, the national identity. 0.88

00:16:59.480 There was nothing.

00:17:00.880 And so, you know, Nietzsche was right.

00:17:03.600 You, you're going to replace it with something.

00:17:06.580 And the, the Germans replaced it with science and mythology. 0.93

00:17:12.040 And that was the stuff that was really used.

00:17:15.900 I, I look at what's happening to us.

00:17:19.580 We are, we are systematically being destroyed with nothing left.

00:17:28.060 There's, there's, there's nothing left.

00:17:31.100 What is the, what is the plan after this that, that people, uh, you know, you like to think the best of, of people on the other side that might be doing this, but I can't come up with anything that doesn't end in just evil.

00:17:45.540 It just doesn't end in, in absolute darkness and chaos.

00:17:50.540 Well, here's, here's one possibility of what's happened.

00:17:53.400 Um, I, I, I lay some of this out in the manners of crowds that, um, I think that we've had a vacuum in the West for some years.

00:18:02.320 In fact, as I, I, you wrote about this in my last two books, there's an existential crisis that's been going on underneath the West.

00:18:08.240 You touched on a bit of it there.

00:18:09.900 Um, uh, religion recedes.

00:18:12.260 You can, uh, applaud that or deprecate it, but it, it, it, it's, it's happened.

00:18:16.700 And the, the, the, the faith withdraws, um, as it withdraws underneath people, a whole set of questions open up and they're like trap doors.

00:18:27.240 You know, people don't like to address them, but they, they know they're there.

00:18:31.040 Where do, for instance, human rights come from, who, who institutes them?

00:18:36.220 I don't know, someone, and then eventually rise.

00:18:38.760 Maybe they're not actually inbuilt.

00:18:40.240 Maybe, maybe they just, like everything, it's just a trap door, uh, beneath which there is just chaos, this darkness.

00:18:48.980 Now, this is, this is one of the deep, deep problems of our time.

00:18:54.240 The, the, the, the thing that has most plausibly tried to step into this vacuum is the thing that the radical left was working on for years,

00:19:04.460 which has now become visible on a daily basis in all of our sense-making organs, all of our media, uh, government, government institutions,

00:19:13.600 wall street, the big banks, all of the fortune 500 companies, which is this claim that purpose in life and meaning can be found in searching for equity.

00:19:23.960 And that as long as we can get to a stage where all human beings end up at the same top of the same mountain, that is human purpose and happiness.

00:19:32.800 It's not possible.

00:19:34.340 It denies human nature.

00:19:37.300 Of course.

00:19:37.720 It's totally impossible.

00:19:39.100 It's, you know, that you saw that Kamala Harris, um, 0.94

00:19:41.860 Yes.

00:19:42.340 Cartoon she sort of sent out on the eve of the election.

00:19:44.960 You know, there'll be an awfully crowded mountaintop, won't there?

00:19:48.400 Uh, uh, uh, uh, but, but, but here's the thing.

00:19:52.020 It should be, it wasn't taken very seriously at the beginning by the ideological right, by conservatives and nonpartisan figures.

00:19:59.600 It wasn't taken very seriously.

00:20:00.820 It's taken seriously now rather too late when vice presidential candidates are talking about equity and insisting on instituting it in American life.

00:20:10.620 When you have street thug movements that seem to think erroneously, obviously, but seem to think that if they smash enough skulls and enough Starbucks storefronts, then at some point we reach justice.

00:20:25.400 You know, these people think they mean it.

00:20:28.280 They've found meaning in their lives.

00:20:30.800 They've been led into an incredibly evil place, but they think they've found it.

00:20:35.120 And, and, and by contrast, the ideological right and, and those who are sort of somewhere in the center have not answered it.

00:20:43.020 They haven't said what we should do.

00:20:44.700 So I want to get to that in a second, but I want to, I want to clear up one thing.

00:20:50.160 I think one of the appointees on the COVID task force for Joe Biden just said today that, um, they wanted to make sure that the vaccine would go out, uh, to provide equity.

00:21:06.720 And so there would be an equitable distribution of the vaccine.

00:21:12.660 Now, if you came to me, and I think a lot of Americans just think that this is what it means.

00:21:17.320 If you came to me and said, look, um, African Americans, uh, higher percentage, uh, you know, get, get the disease.

00:21:27.120 Elderly people get it. 0.77

00:21:28.860 Apparently teachers are, you know, on the front lines with this.

00:21:32.040 Uh, and you just, you said, look, these are the people who get it at a higher rate and have a higher risk.

00:21:38.120 We got to give it to them first.

00:21:39.740 No one would have a problem with that, but that's not what they mean.

00:21:43.880 Is it?

00:21:45.120 Hmm.

00:21:46.200 Uh, I doubt it is.

00:21:47.800 And by the way, the problem with all of this is that there's a whole set of things that just haven't been addressed.

00:21:52.680 Anyway, I mean, in the U S like the UK, you have this issue of minority ethnic communities who seem to be particularly disproportionately affected

00:22:01.680 by the virus.

00:22:02.960 You can't ask why it's in the UK.

00:22:08.040 There are now two inquiries as to why this might be the case in the weeks I was in America.

00:22:12.780 I didn't hear one person ask why it might be the case.

00:22:17.200 So here's the additional problem.

00:22:19.220 You just can't, you can't inquire into anything because you've decided what the answers can't be.

00:22:25.220 What if, for instance, the answer is, and I would have thought it's sensible that it's a likely answer.

00:22:30.980 If it's true that the COVID is, um, acts particularly on, um, obesity, uh, people who suffer from obesity.

00:22:38.000 And if obesity is more pronounced in certain communities, those communities will suffer disproportionately from COVID.

00:22:44.500 What do you do with that?

00:22:45.820 It seems America has decided don't talk about it.

00:22:48.860 Don't even have that discussion.

00:22:50.020 Don't raise it.

00:22:50.640 Also, because we've already got the answer to everything, the answer to everything is racism.

00:22:56.340 And so you can't have any of this out in America.

00:23:00.340 It's a totally hopeless situation that your country's in.

00:23:03.240 I can only console myself that my country's in a second most hopeless situation in this regard.

00:23:08.440 You think that we're worse than Great Britain?

00:23:11.440 Oh, yeah, on this stuff.

00:23:12.720 You've got a whole set of problems which you can't answer because you can't come to the answers that might be there.

00:23:17.300 But you, you also suffer as my friend, Eric Weinstein, um, put it, uh, recently it with this extraordinary situation.

00:23:26.720 We all know why it's come about historically, but you now are obsessed with your skin pigmentation. 0.99

00:23:33.480 It's disgusting.

00:23:34.440 We're not, but we're, but we're, but we're really, we're really not half of the nation, maybe half of the nation.

00:23:42.140 And I think it is, it's more that skin color has been politicized now.

00:23:48.940 Sure.

00:23:49.540 Um, I think the number probably is closer to 15 or 20% that are actually buying into this.

00:23:55.660 The other that brings it up to 50% is about politics, but most of Americans, they don't agree with this, but they don't say anything.

00:24:06.800 Exactly.

00:24:07.400 That's the point.

00:24:08.440 Of course they don't.

00:24:09.640 And that's where your nation is in this particular problem. 0.99

00:24:12.800 You know, I said before, I hate this phrase, the silent majority, because why is the damn majority silent? 0.99

00:24:19.480 Why should it be silent? 0.97

00:24:20.480 I have friends in America who, since the Black Lives Matter movement have got going, have told me with terror what they have gone through.

00:24:27.980 I have a friend who, in, uh, in a church group, somebody, people she's known for years, somebody in a church group, uh, starts going on about Black Lives Matter and what books the white people present should read.

00:24:40.040 And my friend just stays silent.

00:24:41.600 She gets a message a couple of days later from somebody in the group saying, I think your silence was telling.

00:24:46.020 That's the sort of thing going on all over America at the moment.

00:24:50.980 And as I say, you are obsessed by skin color because the people who are obsessed about it the most with the darkest possible motives are now, have now persuaded the rest of the nation to tiptoe and to say nothing and to live in guilt and fear and silence.

00:25:06.420 You can see it everywhere in your nation. 0.89

00:25:08.820 Your bookstores are filled with this moral effluence, which tells people, tells people you're racist, you're guilty, you're awful. 0.98

00:25:19.000 Go away. 1.00

00:25:20.360 Shut up. 1.00

00:25:21.160 Don't speak. 1.00

00:25:22.160 Everything in your culture does it.

00:25:24.420 But here's the problem.

00:25:25.920 I think Boris Johnson and Donald Trump have one thing in common besides the hair, um, they, both of them, uh, appealed to people who felt they had no voice and no one was listening to them.

00:25:45.660 And Donald Trump, I don't know about Boris Johnson.

00:25:49.720 We've been busy over here, but Donald Trump, he's the only politician that I've ever seen.

00:25:54.820 And I was not a fan of his to begin with.

00:25:57.640 Um, but he actually did the things that he said he was going to do.

00:26:04.380 He actually was trying to tear some things down that were wildly unjust.

00:26:10.860 Now that he is possibly not the next president, most likely not the next president.

00:26:17.560 People feel like, well, if he can't do it, how can I, what chance do we have?

00:26:24.880 Sure.

00:26:25.860 I, uh, there, there's all arguments.

00:26:28.540 It's all sorts of arguments that one can make about this.

00:26:30.480 I mean, I agree with you that broadly speaking, Donald Trump did a few big things.

00:26:34.000 Um, I, I also, I mean, I think the number of things he didn't do, which conservatives have paid the price for him saying he was going to do without the advantage of him actually doing them is quite substantial.

00:26:45.460 Let me, let me, let me, let me rephrase this.

00:26:48.620 I was not a fan of Donald Trump, uh, and especially his style, but I came to the point to where what he said about the press exposed the press because they lived up to it.

00:27:02.780 The Russian collusion, uh, because he fought against it.

00:27:07.960 He kicked down some doors that I don't think he knew he was kicking down.

00:27:12.120 There were some things that happened because he's a wrecking ball.

00:27:16.320 Mm hmm.

00:27:17.340 Yeah.

00:27:17.840 As, um, I think it was, uh, Dave Rubin who pointed out that the people who complained that he wasn't a panther in a China shop, uh, forgot that, you know, they, they voted for a bull in a China shop, not a panther.

00:27:29.760 Correct.

00:27:30.360 Uh, uh, Trump didn't have the ability to slink around the vases.

00:27:35.260 Um, but, but, but yeah, I mean, here's the most irritating thing, of course, about the, the, the whole Trump era is probably now going to be have to be seen is that for four years.

00:27:46.860 And we've had a version of this in Britain, but for four years, his opponents thought that the public didn't know the negative aspects of his personality or couldn't see them.

00:27:57.160 And they failed completely.

00:27:59.420 And I deeply regret this because I love your country.

00:28:01.760 I love America.

00:28:02.460 I've always admired it.

00:28:03.760 I deeply regret that they've missed the opportunity and maybe now they've missed it completely.

00:28:09.880 To consider what it was, the country was doing in 2016, when it said, we know that we know that.

00:28:18.760 But we're voting for him anyway.

00:28:20.740 I have to tell you, Douglas, I called every member of the press.

00:28:25.160 I know them all.

00:28:26.220 I called every leading member of the press in 2016 because I didn't like him, but I said to them privately and publicly, guys, this is a huge learning curve.

00:28:39.680 There is something going on that you are not seeing and you will make it much worse if you don't see it now.

00:28:49.280 None of them had any desire to even learn.

00:28:52.400 They didn't. 1.00

00:28:53.380 They they have a view that half the country is just racist, pigheaded and stupid. 1.00

00:28:59.160 Yeah. 1.00

00:28:59.680 Well, you can't you can't have a country if that's the way you view half the country.

00:29:04.280 No, I mean, it is a possibility.

00:29:07.160 I'm not one of those who always thinks that events will fall out and prove me to be right.

00:29:12.640 A lot of conservatives do.

00:29:13.820 They sort of think, well, the bottom will fall out of the thing and then everyone will see that we were right all along.

00:29:18.040 I'm not sure.

00:29:18.660 I think quite often the bottom the bottom falls out and there's just ever more chaos.

00:29:22.760 But I do think that Trump may have shown something that I've intuited for a while, which is this.

00:29:29.780 Our countries, Britain, America, perhaps in particular, were going in the wrong direction.

00:29:36.880 And everything in the state, including the foreign services, intelligence services and much more, was all headed in the same slightly wrong direction.

00:29:47.480 For instance, on China, the most obvious one.

00:29:50.500 Now, the American public have this moment of genius like the British public do, which is they vote in spite of everything they're told to do, because they sense that something about the direction they're going in is fundamentally wrong.

00:30:05.780 And what I think we've seen in the last four years in both our countries has been that course correcting on these big, wrong directions that we're going in has to be done, but was not possible in the four years we've had so far.

00:30:24.400 Which raises the question, what is actually needed?

00:30:27.700 Because it's not like Biden and Harris are going to take on the undercutting of America by China.

00:30:32.500 It's not as if they're going to tackle the diminution of America as a world power.

00:30:37.720 It's not like all of the other things that the American voters sense about the downhill trajectory of the country are going to be righted in the next four years.

00:30:46.880 So how can they be righted?

00:30:48.700 So I don't think I think this is where I may be a little more pessimistic than you are on this.

00:30:55.800 I think that that is why one of the reasons why Donald Trump was fought against so hard is because he was stopping this.

00:31:09.540 He would have stood in the way of the Great Reset and all of this stuff that is happening that is taking us to greater globalization, greater, you know, one world order, if you will.

00:31:24.080 Well, all the things that we sense, I mean, look, you know, nationalism, you know, aspirin is bad for you in big doses, too.

00:31:35.380 So nationalism isn't bad as long as and I come from Texas, so I understand I don't come from here, but I live here.

00:31:43.940 And Texans always say, don't now, don't you say anything wrong about Texas?

00:31:48.760 And and they will they will talk to you all day long about how great Texas is.

00:31:53.800 And quite honestly, it is.

00:31:55.560 But they don't hate your state.

00:31:58.900 They don't say anything other than, well, Oklahoma, well, Oklahoma is different.

00:32:03.800 But New York, you know, it's great place.

00:32:07.620 It ain't Texas, but it's a great place.

00:32:09.640 There's nothing wrong with that. 0.92

00:32:12.760 But if if you say Sweden, I'm proud to be a Swedish citizen and I'm flying the flag, you're a racist. 0.98

00:32:19.320 If you are proud to be an American and fly the American flag, you're a racist. 0.99

00:32:24.540 That's nonsense. 0.99

00:32:26.160 That's nonsense.

00:32:27.120 That is what people were feeling was, look, I I love my country.

00:32:34.920 I think we're we're doing things that we've done since the progressive era that are taking us into dark places.

00:32:42.340 It never works out.

00:32:44.020 And now with Trump gone, the the vacuum is just enormous.

00:32:52.880 And I think they're going to push even harder for the things that our two countries, the people of our two countries seem to be against.

00:33:02.340 Yeah, I think that's possible.

00:33:04.240 I think I think it can be a lot of demoralization and a lot of feeling there's nothing that people can do.

00:33:11.840 And I think it has to be hit back against.

00:33:13.980 And if I say so, I mean, this is a small T conservative answer, but it has to be answered by going back to the things that have served us well in the past.

00:33:23.760 I completely agree with you on what you say about nationalism, by the way.

00:33:27.340 I have always said that.

00:33:28.620 I mean, sure, nationalism can lead to wars, but the Trojan Wars was started by love and nobody's tried to ban love because it can lead to wars.

00:33:38.400 Everything can go wrong.

00:33:39.820 And here's by the way, here's one problem of our era.

00:33:42.780 Globalism can go wrong.

00:33:44.280 It's just we haven't had the kind of crazily large scale demonstration of how it goes wrong that we've had with nationalism in the 20th century.

00:33:53.300 Look how bad look how badly Marxism went wrong.

00:33:56.680 And we haven't even learned the lesson of that.

00:33:58.800 So things have to go really badly wrong for everybody to get the lesson.

00:34:02.740 I mean, how bad how look at I've never been one.

00:34:07.000 I've always hated the movies where they're like, I don't I don't work for a country.

00:34:12.140 I work for the corporation.

00:34:13.620 I've always hated that.

00:34:15.200 But they were right.

00:34:17.040 If you look at the power of Google, you look at the our founders did not see one thing coming.

00:34:25.340 And that is that a corporation could be more powerful than a sovereign nation.

00:34:30.280 And we're there and nobody seems to care.

00:34:34.740 Yeah, I mean, you or you have social media companies that can try to mute or silence the president.

00:34:41.820 Right.

00:34:42.220 On the day of an election.

00:34:43.360 Yeah.

00:34:43.580 I mean, whatever you think of him, we're just wow.

00:34:46.360 What a situation to have come to in our own lives where unelected people whose motives, apart from their profit motive, aren't even widely understood, could be able to do that to the leader of the free world, whatever you think of him.

00:35:02.300 It's an astonishing path to come to in a very short space of time.

00:35:05.940 Very quickly, if I come back to this point, we have answers that have seen us through before.

00:35:12.140 America is replete.

00:35:13.700 Again, it goes back to this thing that Trump was trying to do at Mount Rushmore.

00:35:16.720 America is replete with examples, people, heroic figures, heroic happenings and occasions that could see you through this period.

00:35:26.720 It's just you have to look on them with understanding and love and forgiveness for where they've gone wrong, not with this attitude of superiority, which has been taught to generations of American students.

00:35:39.320 How do you do that when when the entire system is being run by radicals now?

00:35:46.980 I mean, you know, when you have the teachers union running the Department of Education, when you have the media and then you have social media, you have all of the power structures going the opposite way.

00:36:02.500 How does the how how do the people, even if it's half, how do you stand up without a power structure?

00:36:10.480 Well, you know, we've seen it before many times in human history.

00:36:16.260 This is a particularly strange example because we live in a form of liberty and also mass disinformation.

00:36:23.740 In Mads of Crowds, I give the example of Google image search.

00:36:27.020 I'm sure you know it that that you just just look at what Google image search gives you back.

00:36:32.500 It's not what you ask.

00:36:33.740 If you say the wrong thing, ask for the wrong thing.

00:36:37.120 So they are they are successful.

00:36:39.080 Let me give a quick example in case your viewers don't know.

00:36:41.460 But for instance, if you type in European people's art, you might think you've got some Van Gogh, some Raphael, some Leonardo.

00:36:50.520 There's no shortage of images you could have of European art.

00:36:54.480 You don't get that.

00:36:55.900 You mainly get portraits of black people in history because Google's decided that for you.

00:37:01.740 Google decided what you're going to see.

00:37:03.680 You're not going to be able to see the rich and brilliant culture and achievements of the people of Europe.

00:37:08.460 You're going to be force fed your anti-racism five a day like a good boy.

00:37:13.720 Now, this is what Google are able to do.

00:37:16.240 But totalitarian societies tried this in a different way for decades, and it was possible to break through them.

00:37:25.200 And let me give you one quick example.

00:37:26.580 In the era behind the Iron Curtain, people in countries like Czechoslovakia, Hungary, Poland, and elsewhere were taught to imbibe lies on a daily basis.

00:37:37.320 They were told lies about their past, including their recent past.

00:37:41.020 They were told lies about their present.

00:37:43.140 They were told lies about their future.

00:37:44.720 But it was possible, and I know many of the people who are involved, it was possible also to find your way out of that, to be taught your way out of it.

00:37:53.920 There was in those days something called the Underground University of brilliant academics and thinkers and others from left and right who went into the former Eastern bloc at some risk to their own lives

00:38:03.860 and told people things that were true, taught them the classics, taught them Plato, in top rooms where they would sidle out silently in order that the neighbors wouldn't inform on them.

00:38:16.700 It was possible, even in the darkest hours of the 20th century, to be able to bring truth to people who had been fed lies.

00:38:25.040 So if it was possible then, it's possible now.

00:38:28.060 So I agree with you, and I don't want to be a Debbie Downer here on everything, but I do want to challenge you to be able to hear the response of strength.

00:38:42.200 It was possible in Czechoslovakia, it was possible in Poland, because they didn't have the security state that we now have in the United States or in the Western world or anywhere in the world. 0.85

00:38:56.840 We now have big brother in our home.

00:39:00.460 We welcomed him into our home.

00:39:04.260 So you don't need the neighbors reporting on you because they have everything that they need on you.

00:39:10.740 Sure. I mean, the security state in the former Eastern Europe was much more rigorous and serious in its punishing effects than anything we have now, thank goodness.

00:39:20.680 What is new, I agree, is that there is an inviting of the sensor, of the corrector, of the teacher into your life.

00:39:29.600 But I come back to this point, there will also be technological ways out of that.

00:39:34.300 I mean, you know, you remember at the beginning of the Internet, people said things like, the Internet is going to be this wonderful resource where everyone learns more and we're all going to be better educated.

00:39:45.300 Okay, well, that didn't work.

00:39:49.460 I don't think anyone could say.

00:39:51.500 The great thing about students is 2020 is just they know so much more.

00:39:55.360 No, you know, you know, it's funny is I was talking to my son the other day.

00:40:02.940 The one thing that can be said about students of the 20th century is they have access to so much more.

00:40:09.260 I showed my son an encyclopedia the other day because he was like, I don't know how to find the answer.

00:40:14.060 And I'm like, don't even start with me.

00:40:17.900 I want to show you how I had to find the answer.

00:40:20.900 Go to Google.

00:40:22.220 You know what I mean?

00:40:23.060 So they have access to so much, but we don't necessarily even know how to use that.

00:40:31.740 It's been the same with human beings ever since we got off our hind legs when we found fire, when we discovered the wheel.

00:40:40.540 It's been the same with everything.

00:40:42.560 It can all be used to bad purposes.

00:40:45.720 Absolutely everything that human beings discover and come across can be.

00:40:49.560 But we can rescue them for the good as well.

00:40:51.580 I am not down on the idea that if a young person can find out the amount that a young person can now, then a number of them, however large or small in number, will find their way through to truths and knowledge which previous generations, including ours, could only have dreamt of.

00:41:08.300 It's all there.

00:41:09.840 And it's my experience that a smart young person today has a better opportunity to get to truths than anyone else and is in the process of doing so.

00:41:22.060 I mean, sure, a load of people are just spending their time imbibing cat videos, which doesn't do any great harm, but a number are doing that.

00:41:30.760 But equally, what you and I were going, I had to find a book to know what was in it.

00:41:36.840 We had to get hold of it, buy it, save up for it or whatever.

00:41:40.560 Same with music, same with everything else.

00:41:43.140 We have the opportunity.

00:41:44.620 I'm always bang on about this, but it's true. 1.00

00:41:46.440 We can have the opportunity to solve so many things these days.

00:41:50.740 We have the opportunity to answer things which our forebears never even knew they could start to think about.

00:41:58.420 And it's in the hands, literally in the hands of every single young person.

00:42:04.780 And one of the things, that's one of the reasons why I try to clear away always the sort of what I think of as the debris that the radical left keeps putting in front of young people's lives.

00:42:16.660 All of the nonsense about equity and quality and all of these things is to try to clear some of that away so they spend as little time as possible on it and get to the thing in their lives that they should be doing.

00:42:27.600 Because it's the best imaginable time that they're living in if they can just get through the traps that have been put in their place.

00:42:36.000 Help me out on this.

00:42:39.020 I don't think America would have ever put up with this COVID stuff of just the federal government wanting to take over, you know, and tell us exactly what to wear, where to go.

00:42:51.180 We would have never closed our businesses down.

00:42:54.340 Never would have done that.

00:42:55.640 I think one of the things that played a role in that is entertainment.

00:43:00.140 I think we are fat and happy and we can go home and we have never ending entertainment and access.

00:43:09.020 Zoom is a good part of this.

00:43:12.540 And I worry about, you know, and I think it's true.

00:43:18.080 People say that there's, you know, there's all kinds of different people, people who are entrepreneurs, but not everybody wants to be an entrepreneur.

00:43:24.280 Some people just want to show up, do their work and leave.

00:43:27.500 But it seems like there's a growing class of people in America that just want it done for them, just want it easy, want it done for them.

00:43:36.480 If you could pay me and I could sit at home and watch Netflix, I'm going to sit at home and watch Netflix.

00:43:40.380 And so there's this this diminishment of what America used to mean.

00:43:48.040 We used to be people who are like, you know, we'd see the moon and go, let's go there.

00:43:52.100 Yes, I think there's several reasons for this, by the way.

00:43:58.560 One is it goes back to this thing about trust and trusting yourselves.

00:44:02.160 It's the same with individuals as it is for a nation.

00:44:05.380 Europeans were told not to trust themselves because if you got kind of outgoing as a European, you might invade France again.

00:44:14.680 I'm slightly I'm slightly joking about it, but not much.

00:44:19.100 Not much. It's the same with masculinity in our day, for instance, because everybody is obsessed with where masculinity can go wrong.

00:44:27.960 They've decided that one of the answers to it is to feminize men and make sure that masculinity is looked down upon. 1.00

00:44:34.840 It's just it. By the way, there was a good example just yesterday.

00:44:37.160 Vogue magazine, which weirdly has turned from this totally frivolous publication into this sort of frivolous publication.

00:44:44.340 Plus SJW ism, which is a really ugly combination, you know, sticks Harry Styles, my own countryman on the cover in this sort of really hideous sort of dress thing.

00:44:54.120 It's it's it's just one tiny, silly example of something that's ongoing, which is don't trust men, particularly don't trust masculinity.

00:45:02.640 Why? Because men go out and they they they explore and they they climb peaks and they they reach places.

00:45:10.900 And then some of them can sometimes do bad things with it.

00:45:14.340 And it's one of the great tragedies of this generation that so many people are being told limit your ambitions.

00:45:20.560 Don't trust yourself. The same goes with women as well. 0.73

00:45:23.040 It's just particularly pronounced with men, limit your ambitions, sit on the sofa, watch the box set, the Netflix series, and don't dream big because you can't be trusted and you can't trust yourself.

00:45:36.080 I think it's a lamentable thing. And all I can hope is that enough people are persuaded and are told, no, don't listen to that.

00:45:43.760 Don't take the the the Xanax like thing of our era and get off that as fast as you can and get out and do things that would make your predecessors and your ancestors proud.

00:45:56.920 Live up to the extraordinary, heroic examples you've been given.

00:46:00.960 Don't just focus on the few things and more than many things where things went bad.

00:46:05.760 Don't just focus on that. And as a result, limit your horizons, your your your potential, because what's the point of getting to the grave?

00:46:12.620 Having been a cringing, pathetic, doubting figure your entire life? 0.97

00:46:18.100 Sure. Some people will be like that, but they're to be pitied, not to be aspired to. 0.99

00:46:24.360 Let's let's go to the continent here for a second. Let's go to France, France.

00:46:32.560 I'm tired of in America being told we need to be more like France, but lately I wouldn't mind being more like France.

00:46:40.580 France seems to be I mean, in in today's world, it's almost like Winston Churchill could come from France in today.

00:46:50.860 Today's world. Macron said this what a couple of days ago that he thinks the New York Times and places like that that are saying that France is just this racist place have lost their founding principles.

00:47:05.120 He's right on that. And then he went into we will stand against racism and anti-Semitism and we will not get rid of our history.

00:47:15.000 We will not get rid of our statues. We will not do these things.

00:47:18.920 I haven't heard that from a leader except Donald Trump. Is that going to work in France?

00:47:26.420 It does work in France. I completely agree.

00:47:29.300 Look, it's harder from a British person's mouth than it is from an American mouth. 0.68

00:47:34.480 And to say that they were brave. What?

00:47:38.740 Yeah, no, I mean, it's it's it's it's it's it's that sweet enemy.

00:47:42.600 Yeah, it's cool. But I think that this is our problem, not theirs.

00:47:48.180 I think that the French Republic has shown extraordinary courage, stoicism and resilience in recent years.

00:47:55.020 I don't think that America or Britain would have got through remotely as easily as it as France has of the last five years after incessant attacks of the kind it has gone through.

00:48:04.720 It is the American left that has gone rancid and rotten.

00:48:10.480 And that's what Macron was pointing at in his conversation with The New York Times and indeed his letter to the Financial Times.

00:48:17.500 Wait, wait, wait. Can you wait? I want to interrupt you for one thing, because you said the the American left is.

00:48:23.200 Do you believe that this is an American left problem that we have spread this disease?

00:48:29.180 Yes. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's an American problem.

00:48:32.080 It's the American left that cannot do patriotism and leftism.

00:48:37.020 The French left have no problem with this. 0.93

00:48:39.380 The French left are totally capable of defending the Republic of France and also having certain views on trade unions, for instance, that the right don't share.

00:48:48.240 It's the American left that's gone into this weird place where if you believe in the left, you can't believe in America.

00:48:53.300 There are very proud movements, patriotic movements on the continent, in France and elsewhere that believe in left wing principles, which I happen mainly not to share, but also agree on the future of the country.

00:49:05.480 And this is where Macron is on totally safe ground domestically.

00:49:09.300 You know, he said when the statues when BLM started off this year in America, obviously it's been going for some time.

00:49:14.660 But when it started off this year after the George Floyd death, Macron was was the only one out of the apart from Trump.

00:49:21.720 Macron said no statues are coming down.

00:49:24.860 We're not erasing any of our history in Britain, by the way.

00:49:27.540 Boris Johnson waited until the statue of Winston Churchill was attacked in Parliament Square before he blundered out and actually found the courage to say something.

00:49:35.100 But Macron, Macron knows he's got unity from the French on this.

00:49:38.620 And there's a reason why, which is that the founding principles of the French Republic are very, very deeply dug and they're not planning on giving them up.

00:49:47.460 Now, American leftists have decided to give theirs up.

00:49:50.680 I thought that what Macron said in recent days attacking the American left wing media was superb.

00:49:55.840 It was overdue.

00:49:56.740 And I wonder whether a certain type of American Democrat, the sort of Daniel Patrick Moynihan, Scoop Jackson, like Democrats that remain in the voting, might think, yeah, there was a day when we used to be able to be proud of America without being called racist.

00:50:12.740 You know, I remember those days.

00:50:14.840 Maybe we could do something with that memory.

00:50:16.580 Do you think that when you were over here, because I can't figure out how this election happened the way it did, other than there's a bunch of Democrats who are not socialist, not Marxist.

00:50:29.640 But they also didn't like the chaos that they thought was really stemming from Donald Trump, but it was equally stemming from the left.

00:50:40.200 And they thought, oh, you know what, if we just get this old guy, if we've seen him for years, he'll just make things calm again.

00:50:47.240 Not understanding the power behind him is really from the left.

00:50:51.700 Is that your take of what happened here?

00:50:55.640 Yeah, I thought that Peggy Noonan, a very brilliant observer of this, I think, got it right.

00:51:01.640 But after the COVID week, when Trump had COVID, she wrote in a column in the Wall Street Journal that she thought that maybe Americans had tired of Donald Trump.

00:51:11.180 They just want to vote back to normal.

00:51:14.200 And they would see in this, you know, she said that they had got caught in the reality show.

00:51:18.480 They wanted to change the channel.

00:51:19.900 They hadn't had a chance to change the channel.

00:51:21.740 This was a chance to get back to normal.

00:51:23.380 Of course, the kick in that is you don't get back to normal.

00:51:27.500 There isn't normal.

00:51:28.440 There never was, actually, but there particularly isn't in this era.

00:51:32.340 And the idea that Joe Biden, who isn't in the first flush of youth or capability, would be the answer at this time isn't something I particularly recognize.

00:51:43.920 But I can understand the sentiment.

00:51:45.540 And I think that percentage of white male American voters, by the way, again, we don't have this discussion in Britain.

00:51:53.140 We don't have everything broken down by ethnic group.

00:51:56.540 But white American male voters who didn't vote for Trump this time, I would have thought to a degree are in that group who, yes, think that Biden is some kind of return to normality.

00:52:09.140 I think it's I think that's not the case.

00:52:11.340 I think that the attempt to reset the course of American travel that Trump ineptly or otherwise attempted in the last four years will will will not continue.

00:52:24.540 I think that Biden will get America back into all of the things that were going wrong, including international agreements which were going wrong.

00:52:32.040 And I think that this will require a stronger, clearer and more organized answer in four years time from the American right.

00:52:39.780 And we'll see if they manage it.

00:52:41.220 I don't know if they're going to manage it.

00:52:44.200 I mean, you look at you look at the things that the American right are for.

00:52:48.780 They're many of the same policies.

00:52:50.960 I mean, Donald Trump, Americans have been saying for a long time, what are we doing in the Middle East?

00:52:56.020 Stop it.

00:52:56.880 We're making more problems in the Middle East than the Middle East is making in the Middle East. 0.98

00:53:02.400 I mean, we have real problems.

00:53:03.560 What are we doing in bed with bad guys who are Islamicists? 1.00

00:53:08.320 There's a big difference between Islam and an Islamicist. 0.78

00:53:12.240 Know the difference.

00:53:13.140 Let's let's stay away from the Islamicist. 1.00

00:53:17.380 And we're we're about to get right back into the same policy.

00:53:21.820 It kills me that the left finally had a guy who said, let's bring the troops home.

00:53:26.840 I don't want any new wars.

00:53:28.580 And they rejected him.

00:53:30.240 They rejected him.

00:53:31.520 And we're going to go back to a guy who I think is we're going to go all into the all the mistakes we had before.

00:53:39.860 Four or five years ago, you'll certainly join back up with a P5 plus one Iran accords. 0.76

00:53:45.700 Yeah.

00:53:46.540 I thought that's inevitable.

00:53:48.100 That's insanity.

00:53:49.960 Of course.

00:53:51.260 My own country signed up to it as a big mistake.

00:53:53.720 A big mistake.

00:53:54.340 One of the tests of whether or not you can get back to any healthy situation in America is, can you credit your opponents with having done anything right?

00:54:06.980 Can you credit, for instance, that the UAE deal, Bahrain, Sudan, much more?

00:54:17.780 Can you credit that Donald Trump did something good in that?

00:54:20.760 If they can't, and I haven't heard that from anyone.

00:54:24.500 No.

00:54:25.640 It's funny.

00:54:26.060 All the people who talked about peace in the Middle East just didn't ever credit it.

00:54:30.460 It would do so much good in America if somebody could credit that the person on the opposite side, when they've done something right, has done something right.

00:54:40.200 It is funny, I was just having a meeting before we talked, I was just having a meeting with my producers, and I said, the one thing I want to make sure is that we don't become CNN.

00:54:51.240 We don't become what we've despised.

00:54:54.160 If he does something right, we have to point it out.

00:54:58.560 Because I'm sick of everybody just being horrible and there's nothing good.

00:55:04.200 Of course there were good things about Donald Trump that he did.

00:55:07.380 And, you know, hard to admit for people on the left, but by not admitting it, you have zero credibility.

00:55:15.620 Zero credibility.

00:55:16.620 Sure.

00:55:17.520 Absolutely.

00:55:18.520 And they're not willing to credit that.

00:55:20.260 And so there's just a risk that this is going to run and run in America.

00:55:23.640 I hope it doesn't.

00:55:24.840 You know, because you can also hear around the world, when we are allowed to travel much, I can travel a bit now, but when we can travel a lot, I do travel an awful lot.

00:55:35.400 I travel around the world all the time.

00:55:37.380 And, you know, America going badly wrong isn't just a matter for America.

00:55:44.440 People think, I've noticed in America in recent years a sort of liberal parochialism that's emerged.

00:55:51.340 They think they know all about the world.

00:55:53.900 They know nothing about the world.

00:55:55.520 And one thing they particularly don't know is that actually the world has looked to America, for an example, in running democratic elections efficiently and properly and respecting the results, in arranging transitions of power peacefully, in doing good at home as well as abroad, in correcting errors in your country where they exist.

00:56:18.740 But the world has actually looked up to America on this.

00:56:22.960 And if you get it this badly wrong now, the tragedy isn't just yours.

00:56:27.720 It's that other countries around the world that looked to you will not look to you and they will look elsewhere or they'll look inwards.

00:56:36.000 And I personally speaking as somebody on the edges of the American era of dominance say that that would be a deeply regrettable day to arrive at because all the other contenders for your role, all of them will make the world infinitely worse, not better.

00:56:53.440 So the responsibility Americans have to get this right is not just the responsibility for yourselves alone.

00:57:04.720 Douglas, I was talking to Dave Rubin the other day.

00:57:08.460 And I said, I had two questions.

00:57:12.860 And let me ask you the same questions.

00:57:14.380 The first one.

00:57:14.900 Are we not repeating everything that has happened in the past in Europe that we all decided we'd never forget?

00:57:23.640 We'd never.

00:57:24.300 I mean, are we not following the same path as the worst tendencies in the 20th century?

00:57:34.880 No, I don't think you're following all of them.

00:57:37.020 I tell you the one that you're following, which is worst, which is race. 1.00

00:57:41.400 It's the worst.

00:57:42.840 And then the shouting down in the streets, if you disagree.

00:57:47.980 I mean, it's brown shirt stuff.

00:57:50.300 I found it despicable what I saw in America in recent weeks.

00:57:55.820 I thought it was despicable that you could go to cities like Portland, as I did, to cities like Portland and Seattle, which used to be not the first-rate American cities, but they were proud cities.

00:58:09.020 They were cities where people worked and they grew up these cities.

00:58:12.980 They developed them into good places.

00:58:15.760 I found it despicable to see not just the total immiseration of these places by anti-fascists that are actually fascists, parading around and beating up journalists and threatening to kill people who disagree with them and destroying public property and destroying private property.

00:58:32.860 And the citizenry being in this disgusting situation of having to put – and some of them said it to me clearly, it's not just my interpretation – putting things in their windows that are don't hurt me signs.

00:58:45.140 You know, they put up BLM things.

00:58:46.580 I went with Antifa one night in Portland when they were parading through the streets, cut off the streets.

00:58:51.560 They were parading through the streets, screaming at midnight at people's homes that they were standing on stolen land.

00:58:57.540 And people were coming out of their houses to clap the people screaming at them.

00:59:01.660 They were clapping them, saying, we're with you, we're with you, because they're trying to make the mob pass by.

00:59:07.660 And that this is happening in America and that your cities and your citizenry are cowed like this is despicable to see.

00:59:17.120 And it's being done because people have been oppressed and they've been told to shut up and be silent.

00:59:22.480 And that is – it's a terrible lesson, this.

00:59:25.400 And I wish Americans of all skin colors and all backgrounds could get off this as fast as possible. 1.00

00:59:32.180 It's what I've been trying to warn people in America about.

00:59:34.260 We know, I know exactly where this stuff goes.

00:59:38.540 Don't do it.

00:59:39.660 Don't imbibe this, especially not in the guise of progress.

00:59:45.220 So let me just go over a couple of things.

00:59:48.120 In the guise of progress, that is – that was Germany. 0.96

00:59:53.940 It was for a better, stronger world through science.

00:59:57.340 They had – I mean, I've seen a million times the Germans that put signs in their butcher shop or whatever.

01:00:07.860 They put those Nazi flags up or Nazi propaganda up to say, pass by, I'm not a problem. 0.76

01:00:14.620 They had the brown shirts, which were fascists, just like our black shirts.

01:00:18.460 They curbed the media and made sure if any voice of dissent was curbed.

01:00:26.780 We now have that in America.

01:00:28.780 All of these things that are compiled, one on top of each other.

01:00:33.920 And now we have people who are openly saying 70% of the country is racist.

01:00:41.000 They're openly saying, if you voted for Trump or enabled him, tweeted for him, did anything, there needs to be some sort of a punishment.

01:00:48.520 There needs to be some sort of re-education.

01:00:51.080 What I asked Dave was, I've never understood until recently how people in 1934 or even 35 after the Nuremberg laws were passed, how Jews stayed.

01:01:09.180 Why didn't they get out?

01:01:10.240 Now I understand, because I look at these things and say, yeah, but it's not going to happen here.

01:01:16.840 Yeah, but they don't really mean that.

01:01:19.260 Yeah, but something will happen.

01:01:21.980 And the more I say that, the more I worry, because that's exactly what they did.

01:01:28.540 When you took the automobile from the Jew and they had bikes, they all said, well, it won't get worse than this. 1.00

01:01:35.840 At what point do we, is there a line?

01:01:38.800 Is there something that if we ever trip across, we go, okay, all right, this line can't be crossed before it's too late?

01:01:47.300 No, because there never is a line.

01:01:50.440 There's just endless, endless further bits of darker gray.

01:01:54.400 I happen not, I don't believe that history is an endless reworking of the 1930s.

01:02:02.100 I think that it's one very, very informative era, which we need to learn from and which we don't.

01:02:07.520 But one thing that is different today is, and this was what was so shocking in California and Oregon in particular, is the citizens in America who think they are living in a situation they don't have to live in.

01:02:21.420 You know, it isn't like Germany in the 30s.

01:02:26.620 It isn't like behind the Iron Curtain in the post-war period.

01:02:31.840 You can't actually legally be killed for voicing an opinion.

01:02:35.460 So why don't you voice your opinion?

01:02:37.820 You can be muffled.

01:02:39.300 You can be abused.

01:02:40.280 You can be, I'm fed up by, I say, by the way, if people on the ideological right in America moaning to me about what they put up with, they say things to me like, oh, you should see what I get on Twitter.

01:02:49.820 So what?

01:02:51.100 So what?

01:02:52.380 You think anyone in history who told the truth had an easy time?

01:02:56.480 You've got the easiest time that any opposition movement ever did in history.

01:03:01.400 Compared with Martin Luther, compared to anything in history, you've had the easiest time. 0.96

01:03:06.700 You've got the easiest time now.

01:03:07.900 So here's a challenge to people in America.

01:03:09.700 You have the optimal conditions and comparatively, by historical standards, the easiest situation.

01:03:16.260 So don't grouse to me about how you might lose an invitation to a drinks party or how your prospects in some area of life might be impaired.

01:03:27.880 Dress yourself to a better area of life.

01:03:30.780 Get yourself to a more optimal area.

01:03:33.060 Move out from the area which they can't police properly.

01:03:36.180 If you can, and Americans today have a better opportunity to do that than any of the people in history that we might talk about.

01:03:44.220 So the question is, why don't they do it?

01:03:46.320 They've got to do it.

01:03:47.480 You have to do it.

01:03:48.860 You cannot have these people in America living in a nominally free society, which is for the time being free,

01:03:56.740 pretending that they live under the circumstances of Jews in 1930s Germany.

01:04:02.820 They don't live in glass houses in America.

01:04:05.880 Throw metaphorical stones, not the real ones.

01:04:09.540 Speak up.

01:04:10.480 Speak out.

01:04:11.440 Don't be a silent majority. 0.99

01:04:13.100 Be a very damn noisy majority. 0.97

01:04:15.540 And don't put up with the oppression of people who are insincere, totally insincere. 0.97

01:04:21.220 You think these race hucksters who come along really know they want to make money. 1.00

01:04:25.860 They want to win.

01:04:27.140 Nothing more.

01:04:28.240 Nothing more.

01:04:29.300 Call them out.

01:04:30.360 Get them.

01:04:31.220 Clear them out of the way and get on to doing what you should be doing as a nation.

01:04:35.180 That was fantastic.

01:04:40.640 And I think what America hears too little of.

01:04:46.340 Let me go back to let me go back to Islam for a second, because I think we're going back to a period to where we're going to start excusing Islam again. 1.00

01:04:57.020 And I should say the Islamists. 1.00

01:04:58.860 Because the left, I've always wondered, you know, you're for gay rights. 0.85

01:05:10.260 They are definitely not.

01:05:13.640 You're for freedom for women. 1.00

01:05:16.220 They are definitely not.

01:05:18.720 And I never could understand how the two could come together.

01:05:21.760 But I don't, I don't think they have anything in common, except they both want to win, are ruthless about it, and both will kill to be the last one standing.

01:05:35.500 I don't, do they have anything else in common besides the destruction of their enemies?

01:05:44.120 There's a pact that has been breaking down in recent years.

01:05:47.980 The, all these sorts of pacts break down eventually.

01:05:53.920 You know, we mentioned France, certainly.

01:05:56.620 The bit of the French left that was sympathetic to the Islamists has diminished in recent years.

01:06:03.760 Really pleasingly diminished and necessarily diminished.

01:06:06.940 It would diminish in America, by the way, as well. 0.61

01:06:09.760 If you had one night in New York where a few hundred people were gunned down with Kalashnikovs and blown up in suicide bombings at major stadiums in New York by a bunch of Islamists, I reckon that some of those, you know, those sort of Islamists licking leftists in America would pipe down a bit. 0.71

01:06:27.760 Don't you? 0.69

01:06:28.480 Yeah, I do.

01:06:29.020 If you'd had.

01:06:29.820 I think that's why they don't do it.

01:06:31.340 Yes, if you had a year in America where if you, you know, your most prominent secularists were massacred at the beginning of the year and at the end of the year, a priest saying mass at St. Patrick's Cathedral was was beheaded at the altar, as happened in France.

01:06:46.400 I reckon that some of your Islamist licking leftists would shut up a bit as well in America. 0.82

01:06:51.280 You're just very fortunate. 0.98

01:06:53.100 Your leftists in America are really fortunate that they haven't actually stared into the face of this enemy very much.

01:06:59.520 It happened in night on 9-11 and they managed to get over it and pretend it had gone away pretty fast.

01:07:05.780 It's why you can even see it with the tricks they pull over over death rates to terrorism in America.

01:07:11.380 They always start on September the 12th, 2001.

01:07:15.680 You know, oh, I know what you're doing there.

01:07:18.440 I can see what you're doing.

01:07:20.440 You know, so so you've had that in America.

01:07:22.760 In other countries, it's different.

01:07:24.360 The Islamist licking left in the UK is not as vocal as it used to be.

01:07:29.520 Those people I was writing about this 20 years ago, those people who used to march, you know, the sort of vegans for Sharia sort of groups, you know, those those people hived off.

01:07:40.560 You know, the gay rights activists who are marching alongside the Al-Muji Haroun, they they they they fell away.

01:07:47.120 Um, so is it is it is it in time for Europe?

01:07:53.280 I mean, I hear London is.

01:07:58.920 Is in a there are many places in London that if you're a white person or English, you're not walking down.

01:08:09.380 Is that true?

01:08:10.480 No, no, that's not true.

01:08:12.100 No, I mean, I'm a Londoner born and bred and you could say that I don't that I don't have a great view of it because I know it so well.

01:08:18.800 But I would I would say I have a pretty good view of it.

01:08:21.520 I in the strange stuff of Europe, I try to give what I think is the most realistic analysis of what has been happening.

01:08:27.160 It is the case that there are very sectarian areas of of the UK as there are across the continent.

01:08:35.960 Quite often, by the way, when people said to me in the last decade, come and see my area of Sweden or Denmark or somewhere.

01:08:43.340 And I went I would sort of not be that shocked because I said, well, I've seen former mill towns in the north of England that have changed completely in my own life.

01:08:51.000 I said I'm not that easily shocked by it.

01:08:53.380 And you could say that I was as a result kind of complacent.

01:08:56.580 I don't think I am complacent about it.

01:08:58.320 What I think has happened is there has been a massive demographic demographic shift in Europe and a religious shift in Europe, which has been completely underestimated by everybody in charge.

01:09:12.220 And those of us who identified it have been made to pay some price for doing so.

01:09:19.620 But other people have exaggerated the situation.

01:09:22.700 The problem in Europe is very serious.

01:09:24.520 Indeed, it is what Macron said the other week.

01:09:27.620 We have parallel societies that have emerged.

01:09:31.440 But there are parts of the UK which are not pleasant.

01:09:38.480 I don't think there's any that I would fear walking into.

01:09:43.600 I've had my own troubles with that in the past.

01:09:46.080 But I don't think it's as bad as some particularly American commentators have tried to say in recent years.

01:09:51.460 But I don't think anyone has ever accused me of actually underestimating this particular problem.

01:09:55.780 So let me let me end in this area.

01:10:05.960 Rudyard Kipling wrote a great book called or wrote a great poem called The Gods of the Copybook Headings.

01:10:13.760 Oh, yes.

01:10:14.600 I know it.

01:10:15.180 And it is a great lesson to us in this age.

01:10:25.360 But the last line is basically the truth.

01:10:29.280 The gods of the copybook headings with terror and slaughter return.

01:10:32.360 We are so apart, anything but united.

01:10:40.360 We are not listening to each other.

01:10:43.360 We don't see anything the same.

01:10:45.900 We are not here in America.

01:10:47.980 We are not.

01:10:48.700 So many people are not even willing to give the other side the benefit of the doubt.

01:10:55.820 And there is real.

01:10:57.480 There are real problems going on.

01:11:00.180 There are.

01:11:00.880 There's real destruction of our society and of our republic happening.

01:11:09.520 How do we get out of this?

01:11:12.080 I mean, do we.

01:11:13.260 Does it end in terror and slaughter?

01:11:14.880 Does it end in war?

01:11:16.020 I actually have thought that.

01:11:20.200 I thought it before the recent election.

01:11:24.160 On an anecdotal level, as I think I mentioned to you, I was so struck that people couldn't

01:11:28.880 communicate across a dinner table anymore in America.

01:11:33.300 I was horrified by the state of American cities.

01:11:38.040 I was horrified by what had gone on under people's noses without them raising enough objections.

01:11:43.140 And I do think that this parallel society has emerged in America, which it's hard to see

01:11:49.600 how it resolves.

01:11:51.960 I think it could resolve.

01:11:52.980 You could resolve it, for instance, as I said earlier, by trying to agree on something.

01:11:57.900 That would take a degree.

01:11:59.580 That would take a leader that we don't have as of today.

01:12:04.160 I haven't seen that.

01:12:05.140 Well, well, it would require it also requires the citizenry.

01:12:10.280 You know, I would speak.

01:12:11.580 I was interviewing a policeman in Oregon who said something very interesting to me about

01:12:15.580 this.

01:12:15.740 He said people always talk about the responsibility of the police, but they don't talk about what

01:12:19.600 the responsibility of the citizenry is. 0.66

01:12:22.120 By the way, this policeman happened to be black. 0.68

01:12:23.960 A very, very interesting perspective.

01:12:25.600 And I I I had not heard somebody say that for some time.

01:12:29.260 And I would say this as well, though, about political leadership, it's not enough to wish

01:12:34.060 that the perfect figure comes along.

01:12:36.400 The sort of combination of Roosevelt, Churchill and and somebody else comes along and it leads

01:12:44.940 you all to be better people.

01:12:47.300 It's it's something which Americans need to practice themselves.

01:12:51.080 But I think I think America, you study America, you know, that's what the Tea Party started out

01:12:58.000 as. And then it was kind of hijacked by political, you know, party, et cetera, et cetera.

01:13:02.820 But that was the people standing up and it was beaten into a pulp, just beaten into a pulp.

01:13:12.560 So I think rightly or wrongly, I think there's a lot of people who are like.

01:13:17.540 We tried.

01:13:19.320 We tried.

01:13:20.740 Absolutely.

01:13:21.340 Look, I mean, to steal man each side's criticisms that the the American left seems to think that

01:13:28.240 if they allow the American right to have control of anything, they will institute fascism. 0.58

01:13:33.920 And the American right seems to fear that if they leave the American left in control of

01:13:38.120 anything, they'll institute communism.

01:13:39.760 That seems to be broadly so it's at this stage where if that is the case, then you can't trust

01:13:47.640 each other with anything and you've just got to keep trying to immiserate and browbeat and beat

01:13:52.340 down your opponents in case they do this.

01:13:54.660 I think there are politicians in America of both sides who don't want either of those things

01:14:01.320 and could plausibly show that now.

01:14:04.900 But I don't see them around because, I mean, the obvious example is, you know, you didn't

01:14:11.600 used to hear Chuck Schumer and Nancy Pelosi talking in the terms they have recently about

01:14:16.640 the American right and Trump voters.

01:14:18.760 You didn't used to hear it that half the voters were racist.

01:14:21.840 Now, because the election's gone the other way this time, perhaps we'll hear the right

01:14:25.860 now saying crazy things about the left that are unsubstantiated.

01:14:29.980 Maybe we will.

01:14:30.800 I'd hope not.

01:14:31.740 But here's the problem, of course, is that every time you say to people, how about you

01:14:36.100 behave better?

01:14:37.020 They say, well, look how they behaved to us.

01:14:39.660 I mean, I'd be completely understanding if the American right decides now to, for instance,

01:14:44.500 order an investigation into the behavior of the Biden family and then try to impeach the

01:14:48.980 president in his first year.

01:14:50.620 I completely understand it because they'd say, well, they did this to us.

01:14:55.980 It's just that it would be good if that cycle was broken.

01:14:59.040 But it requires both sides to trust each other.

01:15:02.000 And I'm not sure they do.

01:15:03.340 But as I say, just to go back to this point, if you could find something you agreed on,

01:15:06.960 I would say this agree on the fact that every country in history has done things wrong.

01:15:15.220 Very few have done as many things right as America.

01:15:18.300 If China had been in the most dominant position in the last 150 years, would the world look 0.98

01:15:27.460 better or worse?

01:15:29.120 Worse.

01:15:30.180 If Saudi Arabia had been in charge of the world for the last 150 years, better or worse? 1.00

01:15:35.780 Worse.

01:15:36.420 If Germany had been in charge of the world for the last 150 years, better or worse? 0.98

01:15:40.460 Worse.

01:15:40.820 Try to persuade Americans that you've got a damn large amount that's been going for you

01:15:48.200 and that you've given to the world.

01:15:49.540 Sure, you've made mistakes.

01:15:51.380 We can all list them.

01:15:52.900 Every American can list them.

01:15:54.640 How about listing some of your virtues for once?

01:15:57.240 How about listing some of the things you've got right?

01:15:59.640 Agreeing on them and working out how you could do some things right in the future too.

01:16:04.460 You could do this.

01:16:05.340 I'm sure you could.

01:16:06.360 It just requires enough people of good faith.

01:16:08.500 America is an extraordinarily large country.

01:16:11.000 It should be able to find a quorum of such people.

01:16:14.980 You are refreshing to hear and to talk to.

01:16:20.820 Sometimes it takes somebody outside of the family to shake the rest of the family awake,

01:16:29.540 you know?

01:16:30.540 It's nice to hear an outside point of view about America.

01:16:34.960 We don't ever hear it, especially from Americans.

01:16:40.420 But there's something when a citizen of another country says it to us that it is sobering.

01:16:48.940 Thank you.

01:16:49.960 I appreciate it.

01:16:50.840 God bless.

01:16:51.320 It's a great pleasure.

01:16:52.160 Thank you.

01:16:52.740 Just a reminder, I'd love you to rate and subscribe to the podcast and pass this on to a friend

01:17:03.760 so it can be discovered by other people.

01:17:05.380 Thank you.

01:17:14.560 I appreciate it.

01:17:18.900 Bye.

01:17:19.760 Bye.

01:17:20.120 Bye.

01:17:20.720 Bye.

01:17:21.680 Bye.

01:17:21.940 Bye.

01:17:22.640 Bye.

01:17:23.200 Bye.

01:17:25.360 Bye.

01:17:26.680 Bye.

01:17:27.980 Bye.

01:17:29.120 Bye.

01:17:29.940 Bye.

01:17:30.040 Bye.

01:17:30.560 Bye.

01:17:31.540 Bye.

01:17:32.340 Bye.

01:17:32.680 Bye.

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The Glenn Beck Program - November 21, 2020

Ep 89 ｜ This Brit Has a Dire Warning for America ｜ Douglas Murray ｜ The Glenn Beck Podcast

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