The Glenn Beck Program - Ep 9 ｜ Sean Spicer

00:00:00.000 The Blaze Radio Network, on demand.

00:00:08.600 How many of us go through life avoiding pain?

00:00:13.240 I mean, you're kind of sick if you don't, right?

00:00:15.360 I mean, we all do it.

00:00:16.820 We make choices specifically calculated to circumvent hardship.

00:00:21.500 We're genetically hardwired for pain avoidance.

00:00:25.280 But let me ask you this question.

00:00:27.140 How many times have you grown or improved from accomplishing something easy?

00:00:34.080 How do you know how far you can go if you've never been shattered?

00:00:38.880 John F. Kennedy said we do these things not because they're easy, but because they are hard.

00:00:44.520 Frederick Douglass, it's not light that we need, but fire.

00:00:49.220 It's not the gentle shower, but thunder.

00:00:52.240 We need the storm, the whirlwind, and the earthquake.

00:00:57.140 If you combined a storm, a whirlwind, and an earthquake into one mega-natural disaster,

00:01:02.800 I think that's what the equivalent would be of what my guest had to endure in the public eye.

00:01:08.580 You might even say he had the hardest job on the planet for a while.

00:01:13.240 He had to explain the comments and the actions of a very unpredictable boss,

00:01:18.460 while at the same time fend off attacks from a hostile media.

00:01:22.600 All the while watching his likeness, mocked, ridiculed, and laughed at on late-night television.

00:01:30.660 He's actually a very mild-mannered guy who had a bright future.

00:01:36.120 Now what is his future?

00:01:38.280 In the end, he emerged with reflection.

00:01:41.640 He gained new insight on how we've lost the ability to communicate with one another.

00:01:46.160 What Frederick Douglass called the fire and the thunder gave him a unique outlook

00:01:51.920 and a story that only he can tell.

00:01:55.320 And that is what you're about to hear.

00:01:58.520 Today's episode, Sean Spicer.

00:02:01.380 Sean, tell me who you were before you were Sean Spicer.

00:02:22.640 Well, I hope to some degree I'm still that same person.

00:02:25.760 I think a lot more people know who I am versus who I think I am.

00:02:31.860 I like to think of myself as a good person, as a loyal friend, as a hardworking individual,

00:02:38.540 as a person of faith, as a person who values family.

00:02:44.520 I think to get to your question, the difference is that I stepped into a limelight

00:02:49.700 where people got to see me in a way that, A, I didn't even see myself.

00:02:54.120 And see a very small sliver of a person and make profound judgments as to who I was.

00:03:02.340 But I think that if you ask, you know, the friends that I had before,

00:03:07.200 I walked into the West Wing of the White House,

00:03:11.400 they are still the friends that I have today and would say that I'm the same guy,

00:03:14.480 except it's a lot harder to walk down the street.

00:03:16.420 We live in a really weird time where people aren't always thought of as people at all.

00:03:26.220 It's almost a cartoon character or a, I don't know, but they're not people.

00:03:32.800 Because you wouldn't say the things to people that we say to each other now in person.

00:03:39.020 And we get this little teeny sliver, and that's all we know,

00:03:46.240 and that is just all who you are, period.

00:03:53.160 How much of that are we responsible for in today's society?

00:04:02.480 I think there's some of it that we are responsible in the sense that

00:04:12.240 when we say or do things, we are held accountable for them.

00:04:16.820 The difference, I think, to your question is,

00:04:19.540 is that no one wants to understand the full context.

00:04:23.020 So if you screw up on a national stage, it's that becomes, in my case,

00:04:27.860 the caricature of the rest of your life, or at least to the foreseeable future.

00:04:31.300 And no one cares about anything else that you have to say,

00:04:35.380 or the context in which you said what you said in the first place.

00:04:39.040 And so, I mean, I guess to some degree,

00:04:40.820 we're always accountable for what we say and do.

00:04:43.860 I think where I have a bit of an issue with the current environment

00:04:47.900 is that then we sort of stamp a judgment on that person and say,

00:04:52.320 therefore, you are branded this for the rest of your life.

00:04:55.540 And it's, you know, I've been in Republican politics for over 20 years.

00:05:00.720 I've seen and always preached about the liberal bias and I've seen it,

00:05:07.840 but I had not seen it in the visceral nature that has existed in my world

00:05:12.340 for the last 18 to 24 months in the sense that these same people

00:05:16.940 who preach about tolerance and civility are the first ones to cast judgment,

00:05:22.420 are the first ones to denounce anyone else's views

00:05:27.360 that they don't deem as being part of the groupthink

00:05:29.880 and the progressive movement that exists right now.

00:05:32.760 To me, that's the troubling piece of this.

00:05:35.360 It's that you feel like if you're going to get along in this current environment

00:05:41.400 that you can't be anything but part of the current progressive liberal mind meld that's going on.

00:05:48.400 And that's actually troubling as far as I'm concerned.

00:05:52.160 I've had somebody who is deep on the other side

00:06:00.620 and somebody that I think people would look at and say,

00:06:06.220 oh, that person is part of the movement.

00:06:11.740 And they have come to me and said, I am being eaten alive.

00:06:19.240 I'm no longer pure enough.

00:06:24.320 I think the left, is there a difference between the left and a Democrat?

00:06:33.100 That's a really good question.

00:06:39.400 I would argue that there is, but it's becoming harder and harder to be a Democrat

00:06:44.900 that's not part of the left.

00:06:47.320 So do you say that as somebody who is in Washington

00:06:50.120 or you say that as somebody who is in the middle of the country?

00:06:55.740 Both.

00:06:56.140 I think it's somewhat true on the right, but I don't think as much

00:07:02.040 in the sense that there used to be people that you could talk to

00:07:06.340 that would say, you know what, Glenn, I'm just not political.

00:07:09.480 I really don't get involved in this stuff.

00:07:11.540 It is hard now to not have a side, especially on the left,

00:07:17.500 where if you don't agree to all the enumerated progressive pieces of the agenda,

00:07:24.480 then you are not good enough.

00:07:26.120 To your point, you're not pure enough.

00:07:27.520 And you can't just be liberal.

00:07:28.920 You can't just be a Democrat.

00:07:30.480 You can't be a hardworking, union-working, gun-toting Democrat

00:07:35.960 that just says, hey, I believe in the financial and economic pieces

00:07:40.860 of the Democratic Party.

00:07:41.960 Now you have to buy into the entire social progressive movement

00:07:46.460 to be good enough.

00:07:47.460 And anyone who's just there because their father or their mother

00:07:52.660 or their grandmother or grandfather were a Democrat is not good enough.

00:07:56.000 And they are almost ostracized.

00:07:58.660 And you see this with some of the few remaining folks.

00:08:01.060 In my world where I see it are sort of the longstanding political operatives,

00:08:05.160 to your point about Washington versus the country,

00:08:07.540 where I bump into a lot of these guys who have built a career

00:08:09.860 in Democratic politics and now are finding themselves dragged further

00:08:12.620 and further to the left because either their clients or the issues

00:08:16.460 or the campaigns, and I say campaigns not necessarily political,

00:08:20.380 but sort of the advocacy campaigns that they work on,

00:08:23.000 are creating issues where if they're working for a corporation,

00:08:26.660 they're trying to figure out how to out-left the next.

00:08:30.060 And I think people who would consider themselves Democrats now are troubled.

00:08:34.960 And you saw that in the last election where a lot of people then ended up saying,

00:08:37.360 well, then I'm going to vote for Trump because I'm not necessarily a Republican,

00:08:40.580 but I don't agree with the progressive left.

00:08:42.420 Let me ask you the same question, other direction.

00:08:52.460 Ted Cruz, conservatives to become.

00:08:58.060 Ben Sasse, what, second most conservative person in the Senate?

00:09:04.240 If you step out of line with the Trump train, it's going to cut you in half.

00:09:11.120 Oh, yeah.

00:09:11.460 Isn't that the same thing?

00:09:13.700 To some degree.

00:09:14.660 But there's two things.

00:09:15.720 One is that there is clearly this, and they're branded never Trumpers,

00:09:19.420 but there is no question in my mind that you still have this swath of Republicans,

00:09:25.800 in some cases elites, in some cases pundits,

00:09:28.740 but there is a clear delineation between those who are bought in on the,

00:09:32.960 who are Trump Republicans versus Republicans,

00:09:35.660 or whoever you want to define the Trump.

00:09:37.040 So what is a Trump Republican?

00:09:38.420 I think where I see the big break between sort of the traditional Republicans and conservatives

00:09:44.200 and Trump is agreeing to the style, right?

00:09:47.640 If you look at what Trump has championed, tax cuts, less regulations,

00:09:51.940 judicial, strict constructionalist judicial,

00:09:54.400 these are Republican and conservative ideals that people have fought for decades on.

00:09:58.860 Yeah, pretty much everything except tariffs.

00:10:00.720 Everything except for tariffs.

00:10:02.620 And I can, as a former assistant U.S. trade representative,

00:10:06.500 make an argument that what Trump,

00:10:08.160 now I would agree that there is fundamentally a difference between what Trump supports.

00:10:12.080 I will grant you that.

00:10:13.100 But at the end of the day, what he is really arguing for,

00:10:15.640 if you look at what he did with NAFTA, what he did with South Korea,

00:10:18.500 he updated trade agreements that I think benefit American workers.

00:10:21.700 And I actually...

00:10:22.720 He hasn't taken the tariff away.

00:10:24.220 That's correct.

00:10:24.760 And that's where I would agree that there is a delineation.

00:10:27.200 Yeah.

00:10:27.400 If he was doing this as something and said,

00:10:30.160 we're going to get a better deal.

00:10:31.640 Stick with me, guys.

00:10:32.480 We're going to get a better deal.

00:10:33.320 And then take the tariff away.

00:10:35.440 I would agree with you.

00:10:36.520 Brilliant.

00:10:37.280 Right.

00:10:37.600 And I think that he's...

00:10:39.000 The jury's still out on that.

00:10:41.220 Yeah.

00:10:41.300 But I think to the nut of your question,

00:10:43.840 there is, in my mind,

00:10:46.240 where this all comes down to is style.

00:10:49.780 Right.

00:10:50.080 What these guys don't like,

00:10:51.400 what the Ben Sasses and some of these other folks,

00:10:54.100 when they ask him,

00:10:55.160 when you ask a Jeff Flake,

00:10:56.140 what don't you like about Trump?

00:10:57.560 It's what he said,

00:10:58.620 what he tweeted,

00:10:59.540 how he acted,

00:11:00.860 what his expressions were.

00:11:02.860 It's not the style,

00:11:04.560 the substance and the policy.

00:11:06.820 It's,

00:11:07.660 I don't like the way he acted

00:11:09.240 and the style in which he did something.

00:11:11.740 That's where the difference is.

00:11:13.480 And that's what I think is interesting,

00:11:14.700 is that,

00:11:14.980 and I understand it,

00:11:16.740 but I think, frankly,

00:11:17.620 it's sort of,

00:11:18.600 it's like anyone else.

00:11:19.900 When you look at the quality of a person,

00:11:21.480 you'd say,

00:11:21.760 they're really hardworking.

00:11:22.980 If only they were smarter,

00:11:24.240 they'd be the ideal worker.

00:11:25.380 And it's sort of like,

00:11:26.240 when people look at Trump,

00:11:27.020 they go,

00:11:27.240 well,

00:11:27.340 if he would only stop tweeting,

00:11:29.040 if he would only do this,

00:11:30.480 well,

00:11:30.640 then he wouldn't be who he was.

00:11:32.200 And I'm not saying I agree with everything he says or does

00:11:35.080 or how he does it,

00:11:36.160 but you can't look at a person and say,

00:11:38.260 well,

00:11:38.400 if only,

00:11:39.240 if that's like looking at me,

00:11:40.660 and for those of us who,

00:11:41.960 you know,

00:11:42.360 aren't viewing the podcast online and say,

00:11:44.660 well,

00:11:44.780 if you were only six,

00:11:45.740 four,

00:11:46.400 you could play in the NBA.

00:11:47.960 Unfortunately,

00:11:48.440 I'm five,

00:11:49.000 six.

00:11:49.280 And there are qualities to each of us that I think we would like to

00:11:52.220 improve or make the case that if they had this,

00:11:55.680 they would be X.

00:11:56.960 Well,

00:11:57.120 no kidding.

00:11:58.200 In the case of Trump,

00:11:59.120 I think for a lot of folks,

00:12:00.020 I don't think he'd be president if he wasn't tweeting and being,

00:12:02.760 have the style that he had.

00:12:04.280 He wouldn't be,

00:12:04.920 and he wouldn't have gotten all the things done.

00:12:07.680 Kavanaugh would,

00:12:08.560 no,

00:12:09.440 I'm convinced no other president would have,

00:12:11.980 even Reagan,

00:12:12.780 had the balls to just keep going.

00:12:16.100 No,

00:12:16.360 you're absolutely right.

00:12:17.140 Yeah.

00:12:17.340 There is no one,

00:12:18.200 or,

00:12:18.780 or to,

00:12:19.360 to publicly go after a,

00:12:23.400 a North Korean dictator on Twitter,

00:12:25.900 call them names,

00:12:26.980 go to the UN security council and publicly ridicule them and then say,

00:12:30.620 Hey,

00:12:30.640 let's make a deal.

00:12:31.500 Right.

00:12:31.620 That just doesn't happen.

00:12:32.680 But is there,

00:12:35.000 back to the original question,

00:12:39.000 just because,

00:12:40.480 let's use me,

00:12:42.080 I really detest his style,

00:12:44.500 but I give him points for everything he's doing.

00:12:47.980 Is there,

00:12:48.560 are we an all or nothing society on both sides?

00:12:52.540 Do I have to agree with every single gender on the left or I'm a heretic?

00:13:00.360 And on the right,

00:13:01.660 do I have to agree with every single thing Donald Trump says or does,

00:13:05.940 or I'm a heretic?

00:13:08.160 The answer,

00:13:08.840 in my opinion,

00:13:09.520 no,

00:13:10.040 that I don't,

00:13:11.200 because as I said to you earlier,

00:13:12.280 and I agree,

00:13:12.700 there are certain,

00:13:13.440 the way that my mother and father raised me,

00:13:16.040 the way,

00:13:16.360 the way as a Christian that I am brought up teaches me to be kind and

00:13:19.800 forgiving.

00:13:20.680 And it is not the style that he uses.

00:13:24.260 But,

00:13:24.780 but,

00:13:25.020 but,

00:13:25.240 but I would argue to your point is that we've had politicians on both sides of

00:13:30.140 the aisle for decades now that have given us the most eloquent talking

00:13:34.080 points who have told us what we should and what we want and what our

00:13:36.820 ultimate goals and aspirations are and achieved very little in many cases.

00:13:40.960 Richard Nixon was a monster and didn't act like it.

00:13:45.480 I mean,

00:13:45.980 you know what I mean?

00:13:46.660 I'd rather,

00:13:47.540 that's one reason I don't like political correctness.

00:13:50.040 You know exactly who Trump is.

00:13:52.700 Yes.

00:13:53.000 There's no,

00:13:53.440 there's no hidden anything.

00:13:54.780 That's who he is.

00:13:55.740 We're never going to find a secret tape of him.

00:13:59.560 It's called Twitter.

00:14:02.260 The secret is out in the open.

00:14:04.360 Okay.

00:14:04.600 So when you,

00:14:07.460 when you come into the white house,

00:14:10.000 you're expecting what?

00:14:13.860 Cause you've watched him operate.

00:14:16.980 Yeah.

00:14:17.800 And it's,

00:14:19.200 it's a,

00:14:19.680 it's an interesting observation because I,

00:14:23.620 knowing everything that I did,

00:14:25.220 I still expected some degree of normalcy and protocol and decorum of tradition and historical

00:14:35.380 norms.

00:14:36.720 Now,

00:14:37.880 looking back,

00:14:39.000 you or anyone else could look at me and say,

00:14:41.200 well,

00:14:41.440 what part of the movie hadn't you seen?

00:14:43.500 Because you knew how this was going.

00:14:45.720 And I think,

00:14:47.100 you know,

00:14:47.280 if you look back,

00:14:47.920 one of the things that Trump said is,

00:14:49.220 well,

00:14:49.360 once I become president,

00:14:50.340 then I'll do this.

00:14:51.180 And he created somewhat of an impression that that's what he was going to do.

00:14:55.620 And,

00:14:56.040 and,

00:14:56.460 you know,

00:14:56.860 and I think frankly,

00:14:57.800 I looked at that and said,

00:14:59.060 okay,

00:14:59.180 so let's set up a structure and an operation in a traditional way.

00:15:04.340 And frankly,

00:15:05.400 that was not the way that we probably should have looked at it.

00:15:09.420 There are things that we should have adjusted for and strengthened and bolstered and not necessarily put our attention to that we,

00:15:17.420 you know,

00:15:17.660 for example,

00:15:18.500 let me give you a silly example.

00:15:20.380 We focus a lot of attention every week on putting out a weekly address,

00:15:23.500 which was something that every president had done and frankly had outlasted its usefulness,

00:15:29.340 regardless of who the president was,

00:15:31.600 but especially under a president Trump sitting there,

00:15:34.320 and him sitting in front of a chair and talking about policy for 12 minutes or whatever it had usually been was something that had outlived its usefulness.

00:15:41.900 But it took a ton of man hours to actually produce every week and a president who really didn't want to do it.

00:15:48.080 And yet we're focused on doing it because it was what you were supposed to do.

00:15:52.540 Now,

00:15:52.840 that's just one small example,

00:15:53.980 but you think about how much time and effort was put into a product and,

00:15:58.520 and,

00:15:58.940 and,

00:15:59.240 and something that nobody heard that nobody heard that he didn't want to do that,

00:16:02.920 that we were doing only because tradition dictated that we were supposed to do it.

00:16:08.080 How long did that last?

00:16:09.800 Four months.

00:16:11.720 And it was a painful because we were always finding excuses as well.

00:16:14.580 This week we can say that he's,

00:16:16.060 you know,

00:16:16.500 traveling and therefore he can't,

00:16:17.820 but,

00:16:18.120 and it was painful.

00:16:19.340 We would have to,

00:16:20.220 you know,

00:16:20.420 we did one on the,

00:16:21.340 on the deck of,

00:16:22.120 on the deck of the USS Gerald Ford that was about to be commissioned.

00:16:25.040 And it took a lot of time and effort to prepare.

00:16:27.940 And yet in retrospect,

00:16:29.160 you look back and you say,

00:16:30.240 why were we doing some of these things?

00:16:32.360 Why did we structure things?

00:16:34.060 And if you think about some of these little tasks,

00:16:36.820 they require a team,

00:16:38.900 a,

00:16:39.220 a,

00:16:39.580 a ton of buildup to them for something that frankly,

00:16:43.080 to your point,

00:16:43.640 no one was watching and he detested the idea of doing it because he knew that he knew how to communicate better than anybody.

00:16:49.680 And he was thinking to himself,

00:16:50.800 why am I wasting this time doing this outdated forum that no one's watching when I can tweet that will get massively more amounts of attention than this product.

00:17:13.640 How much,

00:17:14.980 how much,

00:17:17.900 this is kind of a bet between me and my wife.

00:17:20.940 How much of,

00:17:21.740 I've got to figure out who I'm about to get offended.

00:17:23.760 How much of his tweets are,

00:17:26.780 he's really thought this through and he's,

00:17:29.340 you know,

00:17:29.700 and how many of them are him sitting on the john at three o'clock in the morning going,

00:17:34.400 oh,

00:17:34.640 this will drive them nuts.

00:17:36.560 I don't know too many of them come out at three in the morning.

00:17:39.460 I've never really focused on where he tweets.

00:17:41.780 So let's get both of those out of the way.

00:17:43.220 You know what I mean.

00:17:43.780 You know what I mean.

00:17:44.560 I do,

00:17:44.640 but I want to be clear.

00:17:45.980 Yeah, okay.

00:17:48.920 There are days in which I look and I go,

00:17:51.940 wow,

00:17:52.160 that was spectacularly strategic.

00:17:54.600 Like,

00:17:55.060 you will go to your point.

00:17:56.140 It's like,

00:17:56.500 oh my God,

00:17:56.900 this is going to drive this,

00:17:57.960 which will drive this.

00:17:58.780 And then there are other days in which I wonder,

00:18:03.380 I go,

00:18:03.720 did he do that intentionally?

00:18:05.980 Because he'll never tell,

00:18:06.920 just so we're clear to your question,

00:18:09.120 he never tells you.

00:18:10.660 He never goes,

00:18:11.160 don't you like how I created this narrative arc that's going to end up in this place

00:18:16.380 because I set this,

00:18:17.800 you know,

00:18:17.980 lit the wick on fire here.

00:18:19.880 If it turns out unbelievably successful,

00:18:22.100 of course,

00:18:22.560 he's going to tell you that's exactly what I intended.

00:18:24.320 If it doesn't,

00:18:24.940 he's going to say,

00:18:25.520 well,

00:18:25.680 you know,

00:18:25.880 the problem is it ricocheted off this wall first.

00:18:28.640 But in many cases,

00:18:30.580 I do think that there is a strategic element to how he's thought this out.

00:18:35.340 Others,

00:18:35.740 when I'm going,

00:18:36.440 how did you,

00:18:38.040 you know,

00:18:38.200 could you have,

00:18:38.660 because there are some where you're like,

00:18:39.760 in terms of the attack,

00:18:41.680 there's timing where I go,

00:18:43.520 wow,

00:18:43.700 he really changed the narrative.

00:18:44.860 That's one thing that you can never take away from.

00:18:47.360 You can be talking about anything in the world.

00:18:49.540 He'll tweet and suddenly it's breaking news.

00:18:51.460 You know,

00:18:51.920 he just tweeted X.

00:18:53.120 He can change the narrative in a way that I don't think,

00:18:55.700 not just any politician,

00:18:56.580 but no one that I've ever seen can do.

00:18:58.940 And that's,

00:18:59.760 that's an unbelievable talent.

00:19:01.640 Now,

00:19:02.120 when you use it and how you use it comes down to what you're asking about.

00:19:05.700 And that's something that only he kind of keeps in the back of his head.

00:19:09.460 So when you would come up and you would say,

00:19:12.120 I haven't talked to the president about that.

00:19:15.900 I've always thought that was a cop out for every other president.

00:19:20.580 Yeah.

00:19:21.220 But when you said that,

00:19:23.440 I was like,

00:19:24.560 yeah,

00:19:24.740 probably not.

00:19:25.440 I mean,

00:19:26.340 I mean,

00:19:27.960 especially if it was within 45 minutes of the briefing,

00:19:30.940 you can't,

00:19:31.620 he's the president of the United States,

00:19:33.780 right?

00:19:34.000 So let's say you're 45 minutes away from when your briefing is about to start.

00:19:37.560 He may be having lunch with the secretary of state or a world leader or what have you.

00:19:43.340 You can't just walk in and go,

00:19:44.220 can you explain to me?

00:19:45.220 So,

00:19:45.720 you know,

00:19:45.900 I literally say,

00:19:46.660 I don't know.

00:19:47.900 Or,

00:19:49.020 you know,

00:19:49.340 it'll be 738 in the morning and suddenly he'd be up in the residence,

00:19:53.540 you know,

00:19:53.800 tweet out something.

00:19:55.420 I honestly wouldn't know,

00:19:57.280 wouldn't have an opportunity to talk to him.

00:19:58.640 There were times when I'd call,

00:20:00.260 say,

00:20:00.580 can you tell me what,

00:20:02.080 what that,

00:20:02.760 that means?

00:20:03.480 Or,

00:20:04.300 you know,

00:20:04.780 was there,

00:20:05.280 was there one that you could point out that you thought was spectacular and one that you thought,

00:20:10.560 oh dear God,

00:20:11.920 no,

00:20:12.660 just that it's just going to destroy my day.

00:20:15.180 Well,

00:20:15.340 I think the two that,

00:20:16.740 I mean,

00:20:16.940 not just,

00:20:17.360 well,

00:20:17.520 there's that,

00:20:18.540 that's okay.

00:20:19.000 So the first one has got to be the Covfefe tweet because you're,

00:20:23.420 you're thinking to yourself,

00:20:25.020 okay,

00:20:25.200 this looks like,

00:20:26.540 um,

00:20:27.820 you know,

00:20:28.080 as someone who has trouble spelling,

00:20:29.960 uh,

00:20:31.140 admittedly,

00:20:32.020 I'm thinking,

00:20:32.740 okay,

00:20:32.880 this is clearly a mistype like,

00:20:35.480 but you don't know.

00:20:36.480 Cause maybe it isn't,

00:20:37.740 maybe it's,

00:20:38.580 you know,

00:20:38.820 and,

00:20:38.960 and,

00:20:39.240 you know,

00:20:39.720 and so you,

00:20:41.000 you,

00:20:41.520 so from a,

00:20:43.120 that one,

00:20:43.600 and then obviously there was the one about Mika Brzezinski that,

00:20:46.500 um,

00:20:46.920 you know,

00:20:47.260 and I'm not a big fan of some of the stuff that,

00:20:50.640 how they behave themselves.

00:20:51.800 A lot of times I just,

00:20:53.380 as I mentioned earlier,

00:20:54.240 I thought that sort of the,

00:20:55.740 the,

00:20:56.280 the attack on them while I understood why the president was frustrated with them.

00:21:00.300 I'm thinking this is going to,

00:21:01.800 we had just had this massively successful.

00:21:03.820 If I,

00:21:04.280 if I'm remember the timing,

00:21:05.680 right,

00:21:05.900 we'd been on a roll and,

00:21:08.680 or even the one about Obama tapping the wires.

00:21:11.440 Um,

00:21:11.800 so there were days in which I understood because of some conversations that we

00:21:17.020 had had,

00:21:17.460 why he had a particular level of frustration or concern or problem,

00:21:21.620 but we would be doing something where we had had in particular the,

00:21:25.480 the joint address,

00:21:26.360 that first one that he gave that was just getting wild,

00:21:29.000 uh,

00:21:30.220 acclaim and praise.

00:21:31.440 And we're going,

00:21:32.160 now this is going to change the subject because in many cases,

00:21:35.240 I think people were looking for a reason not to talk about the good and we

00:21:38.900 would hand it to them.

00:21:40.300 He's gotten better at that.

00:21:41.440 Do you think he has?

00:21:42.560 I think that in the last,

00:21:44.180 look,

00:21:44.360 the first six months were unbelievably disruptive,

00:21:46.720 uh,

00:21:47.460 but that's who he was.

00:21:48.500 I mean,

00:21:48.940 and it's not,

00:21:49.600 I don't say that as a bad thing.

00:21:50.940 I think part of it was,

00:21:51.960 is that he was very clear.

00:21:52.880 I'm not coming here,

00:21:53.660 um,

00:21:54.720 to be the,

00:21:55.920 the next successor in the line of people who can do exactly what the people

00:21:59.460 before them have done.

00:22:00.400 I'm coming here to shake things up.

00:22:03.000 And so I think that,

00:22:06.460 uh,

00:22:07.300 but all that being said,

00:22:08.920 they've,

00:22:09.220 they've gotten their footing in a lot of ways.

00:22:10.960 And,

00:22:11.180 and so it's,

00:22:12.280 you know,

00:22:13.040 uh,

00:22:14.120 to your point,

00:22:14.620 I think a lot of times there's a little bit of miscuing.

00:22:16.860 Now he's understanding,

00:22:18.340 uh,

00:22:18.560 especially the full impact of every time he says and does stuff,

00:22:21.460 the,

00:22:21.800 the implications that it has and the strategic advantages that it can have.

00:22:26.020 George Bush told me before he was leaving the office,

00:22:29.460 he said,

00:22:31.580 uh,

00:22:33.340 he was very frank on,

00:22:34.640 on how things were going,

00:22:35.860 um,

00:22:37.080 in Afghanistan,

00:22:37.900 which the media was making it look like a bloodbath on our side.

00:22:42.140 And it was actually going very,

00:22:43.600 very well.

00:22:44.920 Um,

00:22:45.540 and,

00:22:46.600 um,

00:22:47.200 he shared some things and I said,

00:22:48.580 Mr.

00:22:48.820 President,

00:22:49.660 why don't you say those things?

00:22:52.700 And he said for a couple of reasons,

00:22:55.020 but one thing he said was,

00:22:57.400 uh,

00:22:57.660 as a president,

00:22:58.460 I have to watch everything I say,

00:23:01.200 every move.

00:23:02.160 There are people that are analyzing in Russia and China.

00:23:05.540 What did he mean by that?

00:23:06.340 When he looked that way,

00:23:07.140 what was he doing there?

00:23:08.680 And he said,

00:23:09.580 so you have to be very,

00:23:11.240 very careful on everything.

00:23:13.860 In that conversation,

00:23:15.200 I never heard him search for a word.

00:23:17.940 You know,

00:23:18.660 George,

00:23:19.020 yes,

00:23:19.380 right.

00:23:20.580 I would never want to be across a negotiating table from George W.

00:23:25.020 Bush.

00:23:25.600 The guy is off the charts.

00:23:27.680 Brilliant.

00:23:29.000 Knows it.

00:23:30.340 It has recall.

00:23:32.440 But when he put a camera in front of him,

00:23:34.620 there is two.

00:23:35.800 And I had had a chance to meet him a few times when he was governor in these private meetings.

00:23:41.360 And it was,

00:23:42.060 I was like,

00:23:42.400 this is it.

00:23:42.860 He's going to be the guy.

00:23:43.640 And since then,

00:23:44.440 I saw him a few weeks ago at an event and he is personable and funny and smart,

00:23:49.800 as you said.

00:23:50.420 But then the second when he was president,

00:23:52.180 he would,

00:23:52.680 you know,

00:23:52.860 that's where he got the,

00:23:53.840 you know,

00:23:55.240 the,

00:23:55.360 because until you've been there.

00:23:58.160 Right.

00:23:59.160 And having been the spokesman for it,

00:24:00.940 you realize that every single word is looked at in the context of,

00:24:09.220 I remember this.

00:24:11.200 When,

00:24:11.560 when Obama took office,

00:24:13.260 Gibbs made some comment about our relationship with Britain.

00:24:16.740 Now,

00:24:17.120 anyone who's,

00:24:17.720 I'd had the luxury of been in the foreign policy realm to some degree.

00:24:21.840 At the end of the Bush administration,

00:24:23.160 we have a special relationship with Britain.

00:24:26.300 China is a responsible stakeholder.

00:24:28.760 It's all the diplomatic,

00:24:30.720 you know,

00:24:31.140 speak that is,

00:24:32.420 that ensures that that relationship,

00:24:34.200 everybody gets that it's being maintained at a level that it always has.

00:24:37.740 But the second that you change that moniker,

00:24:40.640 suddenly everybody's freaking out.

00:24:41.880 Well,

00:24:41.980 what's changed?

00:24:42.640 Oh,

00:24:42.780 did we break up?

00:24:43.620 Are we back together?

00:24:44.620 Right.

00:24:45.000 And Gibbs said something that was just a little off.

00:24:48.020 And suddenly there was this concern in Britain.

00:24:50.920 What's going on?

00:24:51.820 What's happening?

00:24:53.120 And it wasn't anything,

00:24:54.660 but you're right.

00:24:55.720 Bush understood clearly that every movement look on non look.

00:25:01.600 Yeah.

00:25:01.940 Word,

00:25:02.680 enunciation suddenly communicates this posture of the United States.

00:25:07.700 Did our position change?

00:25:08.840 Is it getting better or worse?

00:25:10.900 And until you were on that stage,

00:25:13.740 you don't fully appreciate it.

00:25:15.340 And I think you and me and a bunch of other people who've had that opportunity and privilege to see him privately and then obviously observe him as president know what a contrast there is because he is brilliant and funny and warm and caring.

00:25:30.180 And totally different men.

00:25:31.600 The other thing he said in the same meeting,

00:25:33.200 it was the day that Obama said as a candidate,

00:25:36.840 I'll fly jets over into Pakistan.

00:25:39.480 I'll just bomb Pakistan.

00:25:40.680 And I was thinking,

00:25:41.460 no,

00:25:41.660 no,

00:25:41.840 right now,

00:25:42.360 Pakistan is our ally.

00:25:43.520 You can't just do that.

00:25:44.600 And I asked the president about it and he said something.

00:25:49.620 He meant this to make me feel better,

00:25:53.660 I think,

00:25:54.600 but it scared the hell out of me.

00:25:56.200 He said,

00:25:56.900 don't worry.

00:25:57.420 It doesn't matter who sits at this desk.

00:26:00.900 When they get here,

00:26:02.920 they are going to see that on many issues,

00:26:06.280 their hands are tied and they're going to do exactly the same thing.

00:26:11.200 Obama comes in,

00:26:12.120 says,

00:26:12.380 I'm going to shut down Gitmo.

00:26:13.480 I'm going to shut down the war.

00:26:15.140 He pretty much did exactly what Bush was doing.

00:26:20.340 My question is,

00:26:22.500 Donald Trump doesn't care about every little word or every little look.

00:26:27.100 He doesn't care.

00:26:28.100 He is a bull in a China shop.

00:26:32.120 Do you believe that it would?

00:26:35.800 Somebody who was in the Obama administration told me the problem was Obama was a radical.

00:26:41.280 He was a,

00:26:41.920 he believed these things.

00:26:43.220 He believed in hope and change and all the things he talked about.

00:26:45.740 But when he got in,

00:26:46.740 the system was there and it was the Clinton system.

00:26:50.800 And it was just,

00:26:52.160 no,

00:26:52.300 no,

00:26:52.500 you can't.

00:26:52.960 No,

00:26:53.060 no,

00:26:53.160 no.

00:26:53.320 We'll give you a little bit here.

00:26:54.940 Trump doesn't have that.

00:26:56.200 Does he?

00:26:56.520 No,

00:26:57.200 there are guardrails.

00:27:00.180 That's what this is,

00:27:01.100 is that when you walk into office,

00:27:02.460 you've got the national security council,

00:27:04.240 the department of defense,

00:27:05.400 the department of state that are filled by a bunch of,

00:27:07.520 and I do think this is true in a lot of cases,

00:27:09.900 well-meaning people who the problem is they've got these guardrails and they go,

00:27:13.720 you can only drive between here and here,

00:27:15.980 right and left.

00:27:16.700 And that's it.

00:27:17.680 Because otherwise we don't know what's on either side of the guardrails.

00:27:20.500 And if you go over the guardrail,

00:27:22.320 bad things are probably going to happen.

00:27:23.780 No key word,

00:27:24.920 probably because no one's ever driven off the guardrail.

00:27:27.680 You come in,

00:27:28.200 you go,

00:27:28.380 well,

00:27:28.460 you can't pull out and get,

00:27:29.240 you can't close down Gitmo because if you do this,

00:27:30.840 you're going to release these folks and they're going to go here and bad

00:27:33.060 things will probably happen.

00:27:34.020 And if you,

00:27:34.420 you know,

00:27:34.900 pull out of the Paris climate agreement,

00:27:36.240 if you pull out of the Iran agreement,

00:27:37.820 here's what's going to happen.

00:27:38.860 If you move,

00:27:39.840 God forbid,

00:27:40.380 if you move the embassy to Jerusalem,

00:27:43.840 Oh my goodness,

00:27:45.120 bad things are going to happen.

00:27:46.680 And I think Trump's view was,

00:27:48.480 I don't care.

00:27:49.700 I got elected to do certain things and I'm not here.

00:27:53.180 And,

00:27:53.360 and what happens,

00:27:54.480 I write about this in the book that I think was so interesting.

00:27:56.700 I've been in politics 25 years.

00:27:59.180 My job was to advise people and tell them,

00:28:02.080 this is what you can do.

00:28:03.040 This is what you can't do.

00:28:03.980 And this is why.

00:28:05.060 And what was hard for me is that after a few months,

00:28:08.580 I'd say to the president,

00:28:09.520 you know,

00:28:09.680 then candidate Trump,

00:28:10.520 you can't do this.

00:28:11.720 You got to do it this way.

00:28:12.720 Or if you screw up,

00:28:13.440 this is how you have to do this.

00:28:15.140 And he would look at me and go,

00:28:16.460 okay,

00:28:16.920 I'm not going to do that.

00:28:17.860 I'm going to do it my way.

00:28:18.960 And what happened was he was proved right over and over and over again.

00:28:23.020 Now I'm not saying that like,

00:28:24.160 in some cases,

00:28:24.640 I still think that in some cases you should,

00:28:26.700 say,

00:28:26.960 Hey,

00:28:27.080 I'm sorry.

00:28:27.620 I'd like forgiveness or I shouldn't go after this person.

00:28:30.560 But he proved that you don't necessarily pay the political price that you supposedly,

00:28:37.280 you know,

00:28:37.440 this is sort of the,

00:28:38.340 the,

00:28:38.820 the odds behind the curtain that it's going to be huge.

00:28:41.140 And it's going to be terrifying.

00:28:42.260 And oh my God,

00:28:42.880 what's going to happen.

00:28:43.900 He showed really quickly.

00:28:45.700 Well,

00:28:45.980 that's not true.

00:28:47.140 And all of these bad things as he was making decisions on Paris and Iran and,

00:28:51.720 you know,

00:28:51.980 that all of these things where he said,

00:28:53.600 I'm just going to do it.

00:28:54.480 It's the right thing to do.

00:28:55.320 I'm going to move the embassy.

00:28:56.520 I've said,

00:28:57.080 I was going to do it.

00:28:57.680 It's the right thing to do.

00:28:58.660 And look what's happened.

00:29:01.420 Nothing.

00:29:02.580 There's no war,

00:29:03.980 nothing bad's breaking out.

00:29:05.540 And yet it showed that America kept its word.

00:29:07.440 And I think that what,

00:29:08.400 what's fascinating about Trump is that he's realized it's sort of like,

00:29:12.280 if someone says,

00:29:12.780 don't touch the third rail,

00:29:14.380 it's going to electrocute you.

00:29:15.800 And at some point he puts his hand out and goes,

00:29:18.380 didn't electrocute me.

00:29:19.980 And so the next time it's hard to say,

00:29:22.400 oh,

00:29:22.560 well,

00:29:22.700 Mr.

00:29:22.960 President,

00:29:23.540 don't do these things that you're saying you're going to do because bad things are going to happen.

00:29:27.060 Because really I did this and nothing happened.

00:29:29.740 I did that and nothing happened.

00:29:31.220 And he's kept his word over and over again.

00:29:33.020 And where I think he's shown is that for the most part,

00:29:37.440 if you do the right things for the right reasons,

00:29:39.440 because you believe in them and it's not saying do dangerous things,

00:29:42.160 he's not sending nukes off to somewhere or going to war with country,

00:29:44.940 but he's doing frankly,

00:29:46.160 us policy,

00:29:47.540 which is we said that we're going to do the following,

00:29:49.740 or I think it's in our country's interest to do X,

00:29:51.740 Y,

00:29:51.920 and Z even on the tariff stuff,

00:29:53.680 which,

00:29:53.980 you know,

00:29:54.240 I think you and I probably agree.

00:29:55.720 I'm not a huge terrorist fan,

00:29:57.360 but I understand why I did it.

00:29:59.540 And yet the economy hasn't gone to hell in the handbasket.

00:30:01.860 In fact,

00:30:02.200 we're seeing continued economic growth,

00:30:03.960 unemployment continue to go down.

00:30:05.660 And every month,

00:30:06.360 everyone keeps saying,

00:30:06.840 oh,

00:30:07.040 it's going to get worse.

00:30:07.860 It's going to get worse.

00:30:09.000 When we took office,

00:30:10.120 they said he'll never get 3% growth.

00:30:11.820 That was cooking the books by the OMB.

00:30:14.220 And yet all of these things that he's done,

00:30:17.080 whether it's regulations or tax cuts,

00:30:20.320 the world hasn't crumbled as everyone predicted.

00:30:23.040 And that's,

00:30:23.620 what's different with Trump is that he's willing to go out and do what he said

00:30:26.820 he was going to do because he realizes that it's not,

00:30:31.400 it is what he believes is in the best interest of the country.

00:30:33.980 And based on his experience,

00:30:35.320 he's still locked in a battle.

00:30:40.560 I just read from,

00:30:41.820 I think it was CNN.

00:30:45.080 And they published a story the other day that said,

00:30:49.980 so-and-so even agrees that the Russians tried to game the election and,

00:30:59.920 you know,

00:31:00.920 it had this effect and this effect.

00:31:02.540 And I thought they are still,

00:31:05.660 they are still,

00:31:07.440 it's like Al Gore with 2000.

00:31:09.680 It's over,

00:31:10.480 dude.

00:31:10.840 It's over.

00:31:12.240 The president also,

00:31:14.220 I think when he first came in more so than now,

00:31:17.580 the press was trying to delegitimize him using anything they could.

00:31:24.060 But he couldn't just step in and become the president.

00:31:30.740 He was feeling that for instance,

00:31:33.700 the infamous press conference where you had to be thinking,

00:31:38.880 why are we even talking about this?

00:31:41.460 Yes.

00:31:42.460 The,

00:31:42.620 the,

00:31:43.080 the,

00:31:43.400 the clearly the picture show that the,

00:31:46.800 that the,

00:31:47.640 the,

00:31:47.980 the crowd was not as big as it was in others.

00:31:51.840 It doesn't matter.

00:31:53.680 Yes.

00:31:54.560 You're right.

00:31:55.200 But not only does it matter,

00:31:56.900 but it's like,

00:31:57.460 why are we,

00:31:58.860 that,

00:31:59.020 that everything that you just said is right in the sense that the press was trying to figure out how can we find some nitpicky way of saying that it's not,

00:32:08.480 you know,

00:32:09.040 that the people on the mall weren't as many as Obama.

00:32:12.660 But at the end of the day,

00:32:13.300 who cares?

00:32:14.160 Yeah.

00:32:14.440 First of all,

00:32:15.060 Obama was the first black president.

00:32:17.960 But the million things it was,

00:32:19.620 it was,

00:32:20.180 it was overcast and raining.

00:32:21.680 There was added security.

00:32:22.520 Who cares?

00:32:23.360 Yeah.

00:32:23.560 The point is,

00:32:24.240 is that you came in as a transformational president.

00:32:26.140 You were already doing things right.

00:32:28.800 And my view is that you rise above it and basically say,

00:32:32.260 Oh yeah,

00:32:32.540 but guess what?

00:32:33.000 I'm already doing this,

00:32:33.880 this,

00:32:34.180 this,

00:32:34.420 and this,

00:32:35.020 and no one is going to vote on,

00:32:38.060 or decide how,

00:32:39.360 whether or not you're being successful or unsuccessful by how many people showed up at any event.

00:32:42.820 Right.

00:32:43.120 I mean,

00:32:43.580 whether it's a town hall or a concert,

00:32:47.260 like it's,

00:32:47.860 if you're a,

00:32:48.500 I mean,

00:32:48.780 I guess that's a little different because there isn't a monetary aspect to it,

00:32:52.120 but you know,

00:32:54.400 he was doing so many things.

00:32:56.640 Now to the nut of your question,

00:32:58.100 I don't mean to sound like I've taken a bunch of psychology classes,

00:33:00.520 but I think that there's an element,

00:33:02.060 which if you spend enough time around him,

00:33:04.380 you understand that you can only take so many punches without going,

00:33:09.300 Oh yeah,

00:33:09.620 I'm going back at you.

00:33:10.500 So if you just look at the evolution of the campaign,

00:33:13.360 it was,

00:33:13.940 you're not going to run.

00:33:14.760 You're not serious.

00:33:15.480 You can't win.

00:33:16.120 Your campaign sucks.

00:33:17.200 Your dad is not as good as theirs are.

00:33:18.940 You could,

00:33:19.340 you know,

00:33:19.780 I mean,

00:33:20.160 I would on a daily basis here.

00:33:22.140 Well,

00:33:22.340 you know what?

00:33:22.700 Hillary's got 1200 people in Brooklyn.

00:33:24.180 You guys couldn't possibly compete with her.

00:33:26.600 They have this.

00:33:27.380 You're not good enough.

00:33:28.880 At some point it gets in your head and you go,

00:33:32.240 Oh yeah,

00:33:33.580 we did do this.

00:33:34.640 We did beat you on this.

00:33:36.020 We did excel at this.

00:33:37.300 We did do.

00:33:37.900 I mean,

00:33:38.080 and when you constantly are told you're not good enough,

00:33:42.860 or you have this inequality or inequity that is not as good as what it's supposed to be.

00:33:48.080 It's difficult on a daily basis.

00:33:49.880 It builds up and you go,

00:33:51.700 you know what?

00:33:52.060 But here's what we did do.

00:33:53.680 And here's how I'm going to hit back.

00:33:56.440 I agree with you at some point.

00:33:58.160 I mean,

00:33:58.320 this is what as me as the press secretary,

00:34:00.600 there were plenty of times when I wanted to just rip the bark off somebody.

00:34:03.960 And I had a fabulous team,

00:34:05.400 including us,

00:34:05.980 you know,

00:34:06.440 led in internally by my wife who would just go,

00:34:08.940 you know what,

00:34:09.260 Sean,

00:34:10.200 calm down,

00:34:10.780 let it go.

00:34:12.000 Let it go.

00:34:12.620 Don't worry about it.

00:34:13.660 Don't worry about it.

00:34:14.220 No one's going to remember that.

00:34:15.380 Focus on this.

00:34:16.300 Pivot off of that.

00:34:17.080 Don't let this story get to you.

00:34:18.640 Don't worry that,

00:34:19.400 you know,

00:34:19.660 Kitty 521 just tweeted this at you.

00:34:22.520 But it's difficult.

00:34:23.680 Glenn,

00:34:23.900 you know this from,

00:34:25.260 you know,

00:34:25.480 when you know now online when you live in your people who don't know you take shots.

00:34:30.940 And no matter how many shots there are,

00:34:32.780 it still hurts to some degree.

00:34:34.380 It's,

00:34:34.620 it's,

00:34:35.240 you know what?

00:34:35.840 I didn't do anything to you.

00:34:37.320 I don't know who you are.

00:34:38.680 I don't know why you hate me.

00:34:40.220 I'm a good person.

00:34:41.160 I didn't mean anything or I made a mistake and I'm not looking.

00:34:44.260 And yet the vitriol gets to you.

00:34:47.920 And there were days when I wanted to lash out.

00:34:51.500 And like I said,

00:34:52.360 my wife,

00:34:52.920 sometimes my colleagues,

00:34:54.260 sometimes friends would just say my mom,

00:34:56.720 Hey,

00:34:57.020 be better than that.

00:34:57.820 Don't worry about it.

00:34:59.200 Two wrongs.

00:34:59.620 Don't make a right.

00:35:00.240 Don't just because they,

00:35:01.160 I mean,

00:35:01.600 and,

00:35:02.080 and I had a good group of folks that would talk me down.

00:35:06.840 I don't know that that's,

00:35:08.000 and I think sometimes the president just after,

00:35:10.420 it's not just the campaign and being president,

00:35:12.280 but it goes back,

00:35:13.160 you know,

00:35:13.400 to,

00:35:13.600 to being in business and,

00:35:14.620 and this legitimacy factor.

00:35:17.300 And so I say all that because I think to some degree,

00:35:20.520 if you've been told forever that you're not good enough,

00:35:23.360 you're not as legitimate as the next person.

00:35:25.380 And you've continued to hit these bars of success.

00:35:29.040 I said,

00:35:29.540 what do I have to do before you say I actually did something good?

00:35:32.560 I actually succeeded.

00:35:34.920 And so it's easy for a lot of people to sit back sometimes and say,

00:35:37.700 how come you guys made such a big deal out of this?

00:35:40.220 And in retrospect,

00:35:41.220 in a lot of cases,

00:35:41.800 I look back and go,

00:35:42.320 you know what?

00:35:42.580 You're right.

00:35:42.900 We probably should have been the bigger people.

00:35:44.500 We should have pivoted and focused on this.

00:35:46.380 I get it.

00:35:47.280 But retrospect and hindsight are really easy to look back on any situation.

00:35:51.440 And,

00:35:51.540 and I,

00:35:51.860 I've said this to people.

00:35:53.220 I am a fairly reflective person.

00:35:57.000 So whether it's a conversation that I had with my wife and I get better every day

00:36:01.780 where I'll look back and I'll call her sometimes and I'll go,

00:36:03.820 Hey,

00:36:04.020 this morning I probably should have listened to you a little bit more or,

00:36:08.240 you know,

00:36:08.360 I cut you off or whatever.

00:36:09.340 And I'm not perfect,

00:36:10.440 but what I try to do is at the end of the day,

00:36:12.840 go,

00:36:13.120 okay,

00:36:13.240 could I have been a little bit better about this?

00:36:14.980 Or could I have tried to show that whatever it is professionally,

00:36:18.400 personally,

00:36:19.060 but I don't know that every one of us is wired that way.

00:36:23.980 Some of us have this insatiable desire to hit back when hit.

00:36:28.780 And so I can only explain it that way because for people who don't deal with it

00:36:34.300 every day,

00:36:36.660 who don't have to walk down the street and have people yell at,

00:36:39.340 them who don't have people online attacking them,

00:36:41.460 who don't get random phone calls,

00:36:43.440 whatever.

00:36:43.720 It's easy to sit back sometimes and say,

00:36:45.840 Hey,

00:36:46.340 I can't believe you reacted that way.

00:36:48.540 You know,

00:36:48.740 but it's,

00:36:49.060 it's like people who are Monday morning quarterbacking and saying,

00:36:52.380 yeah,

00:36:52.520 next time you have a bunch of,

00:36:53.780 you know,

00:36:54.040 200 plus pound dudes rushing at you,

00:36:56.540 coming at your head and trying to knock you down.

00:36:57.860 You tell me that I should have thrown the ball,

00:36:59.960 right?

00:37:00.400 I mean,

00:37:01.040 it's easy.

00:37:02.000 I think what you've hit,

00:37:04.280 and this,

00:37:05.400 I think is where I made my mistakes with Donald Trump during the election.

00:37:08.620 He had no record.

00:37:14.840 So I didn't believe he was going to do the things that he's done,

00:37:17.660 which he has.

00:37:18.560 So things have changed there.

00:37:20.960 And,

00:37:21.400 and he was so crass that it just,

00:37:28.080 I just couldn't understand how anybody would do that.

00:37:31.620 So I lectured people instead of doing what a friend does and say,

00:37:38.880 what's happening in your life?

00:37:41.220 What's causing you to hit back?

00:37:43.080 Why are you looking to that guy?

00:37:45.900 And you just said it.

00:37:47.540 And the,

00:37:47.900 the left doesn't understand.

00:37:50.560 The media doesn't care.

00:37:52.620 They don't,

00:37:53.680 they don't look at it.

00:37:54.800 They won't examine it.

00:37:56.080 They won't,

00:37:56.720 they don't care if they do.

00:37:58.200 They have punched half of the country in the face for decades.

00:38:05.260 Bingo.

00:38:06.760 Bingo.

00:38:08.020 The left controls academia.

00:38:10.100 They control government.

00:38:11.220 They control media,

00:38:12.540 control so many institutions.

00:38:13.880 They control history.

00:38:15.040 They control books.

00:38:16.920 They control everything.

00:38:18.040 So,

00:38:18.300 so I tell this one story in the,

00:38:20.380 in,

00:38:20.600 in my book about how,

00:38:21.580 when I was in college,

00:38:22.320 we invited Lewis Sullivan,

00:38:23.400 who is president,

00:38:24.980 George H.W.

00:38:26.040 Bush's health and human services secretary,

00:38:27.660 TBR commencement speaker at this liberal arts college that I went to.

00:38:30.820 And everybody was cheering it.

00:38:31.800 He was this African American Republican.

00:38:33.380 And it was their way of feeling good about having,

00:38:35.280 until they found out that he was pro-life.

00:38:37.500 And then they protested him until the point that he said,

00:38:40.260 thank you.

00:38:40.680 I'm not going to attend.

00:38:41.700 And it wasn't until years later,

00:38:42.860 I went up at this event.

00:38:44.300 And I said,

00:38:44.700 Dr.

00:38:44.920 Sullivan,

00:38:45.160 I apologize that my class made you go.

00:38:47.720 But this idea that if you,

00:38:49.800 I said this on the other day,

00:38:50.700 they go,

00:38:50.980 well,

00:38:51.140 my son,

00:38:52.420 you know,

00:38:53.420 in the,

00:38:53.700 in the age of Trump,

00:38:54.960 it feels less safe on campus and doesn't feel that he,

00:38:57.540 and I said,

00:38:57.900 wait a second,

00:38:59.060 do you know what it's like to be a conservative on a college campus?

00:39:02.440 You want to talk about the last 12 months.

00:39:04.340 I want to talk about the last 25 years,

00:39:06.420 30 years,

00:39:07.220 50 years.

00:39:08.200 Do you know what it's like being a conservative and,

00:39:09.700 and being able to have a conversation at a dinner party?

00:39:12.240 Walk down the street.

00:39:12.840 I told one reporter the other day,

00:39:13.960 I was having this discussion in a moderate Q and a,

00:39:16.340 and I said,

00:39:16.720 we're in Washington,

00:39:17.240 DC.

00:39:17.460 I said,

00:39:17.620 put a make America great hat and walk down 15th street in DC.

00:39:21.080 She looked at me and goes,

00:39:21.880 why?

00:39:22.160 What would that,

00:39:22.700 what would you mean?

00:39:24.040 I go,

00:39:24.280 you try it,

00:39:24.960 put a Republican shirt on,

00:39:26.660 put a Donald Trump hat on,

00:39:27.940 walk down a main street.

00:39:29.140 You'll see plenty of Obama and Hillary shirts and bumper stickers.

00:39:32.120 It's cool.

00:39:33.460 But to be a conservative in this world is difficult.

00:39:36.120 And the problem to your point where you hit the nail on the head is that

00:39:38.720 they have no understanding of what that's like.

00:39:42.740 They don't care to either.

00:39:44.960 They don't,

00:39:45.520 they,

00:39:45.740 they don't have,

00:39:47.100 I think they don't want to open that door.

00:39:50.540 I don't know why they won't look at it,

00:39:52.500 but they won't even open that door.

00:39:54.620 So I met with a network executive after the election and she said to me,

00:40:00.400 we miss this.

00:40:01.720 So here is our remedy.

00:40:03.020 We are going to open up pop-up bureaus in different key areas of Trump country.

00:40:09.880 In other words,

00:40:10.800 their idea of,

00:40:11.960 well,

00:40:12.100 since we don't,

00:40:12.980 we,

00:40:13.100 we missed this election because we didn't get it.

00:40:15.160 We were headquartered in LA and New York and Washington DC and other major

00:40:19.460 urban areas.

00:40:20.180 So we don't,

00:40:21.100 we didn't,

00:40:21.640 we didn't get this.

00:40:23.020 What was going on in Michigan and Pennsylvania,

00:40:25.240 this,

00:40:25.440 this sense of disconnect and of being overlooked by the government and by the

00:40:31.360 elites and being diminished.

00:40:33.260 And,

00:40:33.760 and,

00:40:33.920 and they,

00:40:34.680 that was their remedy.

00:40:35.440 We'll set up a pop-up bureau.

00:40:37.420 We'll go there for a few weeks.

00:40:38.880 We'll interact with these people,

00:40:40.440 maybe at a,

00:40:41.200 at a gas station or somewhere where they will be conducting commerce.

00:40:44.640 Right.

00:40:44.740 And then we will go home.

00:40:46.220 But the idea of a lot of,

00:40:47.460 we will try one of these things called Walmart.

00:40:50.520 But,

00:40:50.920 but their idea of getting outside the beltway is going to the Iowa state fair,

00:40:54.740 interviewing people in the terminal on the way out and then saying that

00:40:58.220 they've gone out to middle America.

00:41:00.040 And it's,

00:41:00.680 it's amazing to me,

00:41:01.920 the lack of,

00:41:04.040 and you put it correctly,

00:41:05.400 attempt to understand it.

00:41:07.240 I get that they don't get it,

00:41:08.600 but they don't even want to get it.

00:41:10.240 Right.

00:41:10.360 And that leads us to being in two separate groups and both sides being angry at each other

00:41:22.880 and both sides saying,

00:41:24.700 saying,

00:41:26.080 we get it and you don't.

00:41:29.080 Yes.

00:41:29.220 And there's,

00:41:30.380 and not only you don't get it,

00:41:31.820 but you're bad.

00:41:32.800 Yes.

00:41:33.180 Right.

00:41:33.360 That's,

00:41:33.880 that's the even more difficult problem that we have,

00:41:36.700 which is that there is this decision that is made so early in conversations now,

00:41:42.840 where it's,

00:41:43.600 well,

00:41:43.660 I voted for Hillary.

00:41:44.720 Well,

00:41:44.860 then you must be the following attributes.

00:41:47.920 And if you voted for Trump,

00:41:49.220 you are a sexist,

00:41:50.020 monogamous,

00:41:50.720 racist,

00:41:51.400 horrible person that doesn't care about people,

00:41:53.840 women,

00:41:54.540 fill in the blank,

00:41:55.280 minorities,

00:41:55.860 whatever,

00:41:56.060 because you could not possibly care if you voted or supported that,

00:41:59.600 or if you're even a Republican these days.

00:42:01.940 I learned that lesson because I knew my audience and my audience rebelled when I said,

00:42:10.680 what are you doing?

00:42:11.360 And I did what I think the rest of the media should have done.

00:42:19.080 And that is say,

00:42:19.960 well,

00:42:20.320 I don't think I'm smarter than the rest of the country.

00:42:25.100 So where do I have it wrong?

00:42:28.520 And when you do that,

00:42:30.620 you start to activate empathy and you start hearing the pain that the country is in.

00:42:39.940 And I've heard it from,

00:42:41.780 I've heard it from both sides now.

00:42:45.040 And I think there's a slice of Democrats that we have,

00:42:49.500 I have,

00:42:50.580 I should say,

00:42:51.060 I have.

00:42:53.400 By not being more careful with,

00:42:57.820 by just throwing blankets over people,

00:43:00.840 there is a difference between a socialist and somebody who just wants more welfare for the country.

00:43:09.100 You know what I mean?

00:43:09.520 True.

00:43:09.620 That's a Democrat.

00:43:12.040 Somebody who says,

00:43:13.060 yeah,

00:43:13.280 I think we should have bigger,

00:43:14.920 more robust government health care.

00:43:17.600 That's not the same as a socialist.

00:43:21.700 The socialists now,

00:43:23.560 they're coming out,

00:43:24.220 the Democratic socialists,

00:43:26.120 they're the ones saying no to capitalism.

00:43:29.380 And it's not a Canadian system because that's a capitalist system.

00:43:32.860 It's not Norway.

00:43:34.060 That's a capitalist system.

00:43:36.340 It is no capitalist,

00:43:39.100 socialist,

00:43:40.420 state run kind of thing.

00:43:43.740 And by saying,

00:43:45.020 well,

00:43:45.080 that's social,

00:43:45.660 you just want more socialism.

00:43:47.100 I think we took a whole section of people that are,

00:43:51.640 you know,

00:43:52.060 my grandparents Democrats,

00:43:53.460 and we gave them no place to run because they said,

00:43:57.520 well,

00:43:58.020 I'm not a socialist.

00:43:59.140 And the actual socialists at the time were saying,

00:44:02.180 I'm not a socialist either.

00:44:04.180 I'm just like you.

00:44:05.340 Right.

00:44:05.820 You know what I mean?

00:44:06.640 And so they got into bed and now those people are waking up.

00:44:12.400 And they don't have a place to go.

00:44:14.380 Correct.

00:44:15.600 And that's we,

00:44:17.300 but I think it's on both sides where we've driven people to corners who there is no way

00:44:23.240 you can be in the middle.

00:44:24.220 Now you can't sit in the break room at work and say,

00:44:27.160 I don't have an opinion.

00:44:28.420 I don't want to discuss this.

00:44:30.560 Well,

00:44:30.960 why not?

00:44:32.260 Which don't you think that this is wrong?

00:44:34.660 And people can just see how they're not killing people.

00:44:37.580 Or what would I mean?

00:44:38.900 And right.

00:44:39.520 And everything comes down to black and white.

00:44:43.420 I had an individual the other day that posed this question to me at an event that I was doing

00:44:46.820 and said,

00:44:47.160 yes or no.

00:44:48.800 And I said,

00:44:49.200 with all due respect,

00:44:49.900 sir,

00:44:50.040 it's not a yes or no answer.

00:44:52.220 And he said,

00:44:52.860 it is.

00:44:54.180 Do you think that we should be spending X amount of dollars?

00:44:56.960 And I said,

00:44:57.480 but you're acting as if it's a binary choice.

00:45:00.140 The only two options are yes or no.

00:45:02.940 Spend or not spend.

00:45:04.580 And I said,

00:45:04.920 that's just not how it works.

00:45:07.380 You could,

00:45:08.040 the question is,

00:45:08.800 what do we do to improve it?

00:45:10.000 And then what's it going to cost?

00:45:11.040 What are the reforms?

00:45:11.880 But you're asking me a purely,

00:45:14.040 should we spend X dollars on X problem?

00:45:16.180 Full stop.

00:45:17.660 And we've created this system where you're either black or white odds or even,

00:45:22.900 you know,

00:45:23.080 it's,

00:45:23.480 it's,

00:45:23.880 there is no in between pick your team.

00:45:26.380 And if you're not on it,

00:45:27.160 then I'm going to question you as to why you haven't chosen either me or them.

00:45:30.060 Cause if you're with them,

00:45:31.340 then this is who you are and this is what you are and you're wrong and you're bad.

00:45:35.600 And that's,

00:45:36.160 that's to your point.

00:45:37.380 We're jamming people into corners because the dialogue has stopped.

00:45:43.000 And the listening,

00:45:44.220 as you point out has stopped.

00:45:46.020 We're not saying to them,

00:45:47.080 what,

00:45:47.560 what,

00:45:47.920 what's causing this?

00:45:48.720 What are you upset about?

00:45:49.560 Or what's,

00:45:50.100 what's the issue?

00:45:50.760 And okay,

00:45:51.280 it's interesting.

00:45:52.060 Would here's a,

00:45:53.080 here's a way that that could be solved.

00:45:54.440 Would you think that that's a,

00:45:55.360 a good way or not?

00:45:57.200 It's okay.

00:45:57.940 Well,

00:45:58.160 if you're not with me,

00:45:58.960 then you're a bad person.

00:45:59.840 You're with them.

00:46:00.280 I remember SNL did some funny mocking of me and a chalkboard.

00:46:22.480 Were you played by a man or a woman?

00:46:24.100 I was played by a man.

00:46:25.420 Then you got that going for you.

00:46:26.800 John Stewart used to imitate me.

00:46:32.620 And,

00:46:33.240 and it,

00:46:34.020 it started to grind because it was,

00:46:36.760 he was much more unfair.

00:46:40.520 And then it hit a tipping point for me when they did the restoring sanity thing on the mall after we had done restoring honor,

00:46:50.800 which was a really remarkable event.

00:46:53.280 And they just mocked it.

00:46:55.220 And you could tell they didn't even,

00:46:57.520 they didn't even know what it was.

00:47:01.500 I could take it for a while.

00:47:05.900 When they started in on you,

00:47:07.900 was it ever,

00:47:11.000 that's kind of funny.

00:47:12.100 Yeah.

00:47:12.940 First one.

00:47:13.980 First time.

00:47:14.440 So there's two aspects of the question.

00:47:18.520 Number one,

00:47:19.120 the first time it happened was when it was Saturday Night Live.

00:47:25.540 It was in February and I'd woken up.

00:47:29.160 We were getting ready to go to church.

00:47:30.220 I'd gone to bed just after my wife.

00:47:32.200 She'd said,

00:47:32.560 Hey,

00:47:32.680 did you see Saturday Night Live?

00:47:33.740 I said,

00:47:34.980 No.

00:47:35.460 No.

00:47:35.800 I went to bed right after you.

00:47:37.220 And she looked at me.

00:47:38.060 She had gotten up early and was getting everything ready for the kids so we could go off to church.

00:47:41.160 And she said,

00:47:41.860 you're going to want to watch this.

00:47:43.100 And it just,

00:47:43.900 we have two small kids and we were rushing to get out the door.

00:47:46.240 And I said,

00:47:46.480 I'll watch it when I get back.

00:47:47.380 And we're in church.

00:47:48.380 And my personal phone,

00:47:49.480 not my White House phone,

00:47:50.140 was buzzing just over and over again.

00:47:51.420 Text coming in the whole time.

00:47:53.240 And I thought this was a test from up above.

00:47:55.740 And so I was very good.

00:47:56.920 And I did not look at it.

00:47:57.920 I thought,

00:47:58.440 okay,

00:47:58.600 God,

00:47:58.860 you got it.

00:47:59.500 I get it.

00:47:59.840 I get what this is.

00:48:00.760 And so I walked out and I saw a bunch of whatever.

00:48:02.900 And we drove.

00:48:03.520 My son had said,

00:48:04.440 can we swing by Dunkin' Donuts on the way home to get a donut?

00:48:06.980 And I was just like,

00:48:07.600 no,

00:48:08.100 we're going home.

00:48:09.720 And I sat there in my kitchen and I watched it.

00:48:11.980 Right.

00:48:12.140 And this was not,

00:48:13.160 as they say in the business,

00:48:14.260 the cold open.

00:48:15.020 It was midway through.

00:48:16.220 It had the C-SPAN logo come up.

00:48:18.140 And I see Melissa McCarthy up there.

00:48:20.220 And now it's funny.

00:48:21.980 The first,

00:48:22.620 okay.

00:48:22.960 So number one,

00:48:24.460 I start laughing and I'm like,

00:48:26.220 okay,

00:48:26.540 number two in my head,

00:48:27.960 I'm going,

00:48:28.300 holy smokes,

00:48:28.940 probably like you did.

00:48:30.120 I'm now going from part of like this iconic show that I grew up on reciting skits and,

00:48:37.380 and,

00:48:37.640 you know,

00:48:37.980 recalling Eddie Murphy and Belushi and Murray.

00:48:40.440 And I like,

00:48:40.820 this is weird.

00:48:41.880 Like,

00:48:42.320 this is not,

00:48:42.900 I'm a staffer.

00:48:44.000 I'm not a TV host,

00:48:45.960 even like you are.

00:48:47.080 I'm not a radio.

00:48:48.340 I,

00:48:48.580 this is not who I was a behind the scenes staffer.

00:48:51.160 So I'm like,

00:48:51.460 this is,

00:48:51.980 surreal.

00:48:52.980 The third thing was,

00:48:54.740 holy smokes,

00:48:55.240 this is not going to help me professionally.

00:48:56.760 Cause now I am becoming the story.

00:48:59.500 But as the weeks wore on to your question,

00:49:04.460 it went from funny to mean.

00:49:07.060 And I can take a joke.

00:49:10.400 I swear.

00:49:11.040 I mean,

00:49:11.200 like I,

00:49:11.840 especially in where I,

00:49:13.120 I mean,

00:49:13.700 I'm,

00:49:14.240 you know,

00:49:14.720 I've been kind of her on the segue.

00:49:17.440 Right.

00:49:17.900 Was that fine?

00:49:18.520 That was funny.

00:49:19.180 Okay.

00:49:19.560 I get it.

00:49:20.080 But there was a difference.

00:49:21.100 So it was always like this line between,

00:49:23.300 okay,

00:49:23.400 funny,

00:49:23.720 funny,

00:49:23.880 funny,

00:49:23.980 funny.

00:49:24.240 Okay.

00:49:24.460 Mean and inappropriate.

00:49:25.780 And I think that's the difference is that where I was like,

00:49:27.880 okay,

00:49:28.040 I can laugh at myself.

00:49:29.780 I can go,

00:49:30.060 okay.

00:49:30.320 It's a,

00:49:30.780 I mean,

00:49:31.060 there,

00:49:31.300 you know,

00:49:31.420 the super soaker thing was hysterical and she's shooting folks in the thing.

00:49:34.760 And I thought,

00:49:35.040 okay,

00:49:35.120 maybe I should do that.

00:49:36.860 But there's an element where I was like,

00:49:39.320 okay,

00:49:39.660 they're,

00:49:40.280 they're kind of now making it personal.

00:49:43.460 And,

00:49:43.920 and you could almost tell that there was this arc where they were like,

00:49:47.580 you know,

00:49:47.860 instead of continuing to be funny,

00:49:50.060 let's find a way to really needle and be mean about it.

00:49:52.400 And I think that's where they've,

00:49:54.780 where I,

00:49:55.440 I draw the line,

00:49:56.340 which is like,

00:49:56.860 look,

00:49:57.360 if you're going to be in the business,

00:49:59.000 or even if you're not,

00:49:59.940 I think just as a good person,

00:50:01.060 you should be able to take a laugh and,

00:50:02.280 you know,

00:50:02.720 someone gets up there and does it.

00:50:03.900 If Donald Trump,

00:50:05.120 embraced the mocking of him,

00:50:08.560 a lot of it,

00:50:09.080 I think would stop.

00:50:10.380 I think part of it is that's why they do it is to figure out how far can

00:50:13.500 they go.

00:50:14.440 And I think you're right.

00:50:15.300 It would be funny for him to say,

00:50:16.520 okay,

00:50:17.180 yeah,

00:50:17.400 he's a guy that's done Saturday Night Live.

00:50:18.860 He gets it.

00:50:19.540 If he would mock himself,

00:50:21.000 it would just,

00:50:22.240 right.

00:50:22.640 It would be really good.

00:50:24.240 And I've heard him do it recently.

00:50:25.320 No,

00:50:25.520 I was going to say he can,

00:50:26.480 he,

00:50:26.760 he is,

00:50:27.360 um,

00:50:28.160 people ask me what's,

00:50:29.300 what,

00:50:30.240 you know,

00:50:30.500 what's something that I don't know about the president.

00:50:31.980 And I say one,

00:50:32.900 he can be funny.

00:50:33.840 I mean,

00:50:34.060 like hysterical.

00:50:35.620 Um,

00:50:35.980 two is that he can be unbelievably empathetic.

00:50:38.520 And I've seen it in my own personal case.

00:50:40.300 I've seen it with complete strangers.

00:50:41.740 And I agree with you.

00:50:43.060 If,

00:50:43.280 if people could see those two elements beyond the,

00:50:47.640 the other pieces that we've talked about,

00:50:49.980 then it would go a ton,

00:50:52.900 a long way.

00:50:53.560 And I think it's,

00:50:54.220 it's,

00:50:54.440 it's a dual edged sword,

00:50:55.480 double edged sword.

00:50:56.120 Meaning some of it,

00:50:57.200 I think is he likes the tough negotiator businessman exterior that he has

00:51:01.420 portrayed and built up over time.

00:51:03.120 And second is,

00:51:03.760 I don't think that the media actually wants to show that.

00:51:05.860 So it's a,

00:51:06.640 you know,

00:51:06.900 there's two pieces of it.

00:51:10.860 Was,

00:51:12.140 was the line for you that they were getting mean?

00:51:16.660 Or were you starting to realize I'm a person and I'm,

00:51:26.340 I'm,

00:51:28.060 I'm no longer a person.

00:51:29.480 So the rest of the world,

00:51:30.980 this is making me into this cartoon and I'm,

00:51:35.140 that's more real to people than me.

00:51:38.120 Yeah.

00:51:38.340 Well,

00:51:38.580 look,

00:51:39.280 like I said at the outset,

00:51:40.440 I,

00:51:41.020 I know who I am.

00:51:43.140 And I think what upset me was if you asked my family or friends,

00:51:50.120 you know,

00:51:53.040 two years ago or two days ago,

00:51:54.640 they would probably come up with hopefully a similar set of adjectives.

00:52:00.720 But for most of the rest of the world,

00:52:02.500 I'm not sure any of those would be ones that they would choose.

00:52:06.280 And what's difficult is,

00:52:08.720 and part of the reason I wrote a book was because I wanted to say,

00:52:11.840 like,

00:52:11.980 I'll be candid about who I am and what I believe.

00:52:16.400 And I want people to understand,

00:52:17.660 you don't still don't need to like me,

00:52:19.100 but at least understand.

00:52:21.900 And,

00:52:22.140 and it'd be honest and say,

00:52:23.200 yeah,

00:52:23.420 you know what?

00:52:23.760 In this situation,

00:52:24.480 I screwed up.

00:52:25.700 Here it is.

00:52:26.240 You want me to say it?

00:52:27.000 I screwed up.

00:52:27.680 I could have done better,

00:52:28.660 but it wasn't like I was intentionally going out there saying,

00:52:31.340 I'm going to be a jerk or I'm going to mislead somebody.

00:52:35.680 It was.

00:52:36.420 So I,

00:52:37.140 part of it was because I wanted people to say like,

00:52:38.740 look,

00:52:38.960 I'm not one of these guys that say,

00:52:39.940 Hey,

00:52:40.040 I did nothing wrong.

00:52:40.900 I have no faults and I would do it all over again the same way.

00:52:44.300 And I know there are several people.

00:52:45.320 I talked to a politician a couple of days ago in,

00:52:48.100 in this forum.

00:52:48.820 And I said,

00:52:49.200 do you have any regrets in your political career?

00:52:50.640 They said,

00:52:50.960 no.

00:52:51.660 I said,

00:52:51.880 nothing.

00:52:52.580 Nope.

00:52:53.240 I stand by everything I've said and done.

00:52:54.900 And I thought to myself,

00:52:55.920 really?

00:52:57.520 Because I do.

00:52:59.240 And I haven't been in offices,

00:53:00.960 you know,

00:53:01.220 for a fraction of what you had.

00:53:02.860 And,

00:53:03.220 and part of what I wanted people to see is that.

00:53:06.920 And,

00:53:07.280 and,

00:53:07.560 and to the point of our dialogue is to say,

00:53:09.260 it's okay to say I screwed up and I have been blessed with a ton of forgiveness of people.

00:53:14.960 People have said,

00:53:15.520 Hey,

00:53:15.880 I know you didn't mean that.

00:53:17.420 And I hope that people can see that sometimes if you screw up and you do say,

00:53:22.360 I think I hurt you or I made a mistake.

00:53:25.260 I hope you can accept my apology or understood that there was no intention of,

00:53:30.020 of ill will or malice,

00:53:32.420 that that might be a better way to exist amongst each other in this society.

00:53:36.820 Studies show 68% of people will immediately begin to listen to somebody who just the sentence before they were convinced and they would not listen to them at all.

00:53:55.380 But if the person says,

00:53:57.960 first of all,

00:53:59.960 I have to say this,

00:54:01.640 I've made a bad mistake and here it is.

00:54:06.760 And.

00:54:08.460 We are by nature a forgiving people,

00:54:12.000 right?

00:54:12.120 Because deep down,

00:54:14.520 we all know we make mistakes.

00:54:17.740 And the one thing I can tell you that I love more than anything else is when somebody says,

00:54:23.360 I forgive you.

00:54:24.520 It just,

00:54:25.360 there's this sense that,

00:54:26.760 you know,

00:54:27.500 that.

00:54:28.420 When it's real,

00:54:28.940 when it's real.

00:54:29.700 I mean,

00:54:30.040 I'm a,

00:54:30.540 I'm a big believer in that,

00:54:32.020 that the fake and phony apologies,

00:54:34.180 you know,

00:54:35.980 are,

00:54:36.120 are even worse when someone says to those who may have been offended.

00:54:39.460 If I did the fight,

00:54:40.500 it's like either you're sorry or not.

00:54:42.420 And I've tried when I screw up or when I mistake.

00:54:45.420 I'm just saying,

00:54:45.960 I,

00:54:46.760 I apologize for the following because I did this and own it.

00:54:51.320 I think when it's genuine and real and people can,

00:54:54.760 I think people know that too.

00:54:55.980 It's like a BS meter.

00:54:57.340 Either you,

00:54:58.040 you can tell,

00:54:59.060 you know,

00:54:59.460 it's sort of like,

00:55:00.060 you know,

00:55:00.340 sometimes when you see a kid and say,

00:55:02.000 okay,

00:55:02.180 tell your grandmother,

00:55:03.040 you love her.

00:55:03.360 And they go,

00:55:03.560 love you.

00:55:06.020 But when someone says it with emotion,

00:55:09.020 and feeling,

00:55:10.000 then you can tell it's a real and genuine act.

00:55:13.640 And for me,

00:55:14.540 I think that part of what I want to do to the extent that I can is say,

00:55:18.380 here's a way that we can,

00:55:20.640 I can be better.

00:55:26.160 Watching the Kavanaugh hearings.

00:55:30.180 I couldn't get past.

00:55:31.780 I was so,

00:55:34.800 because I've experienced it with my family and my children,

00:55:39.020 and I have also experienced the thought that I will forever be remembered by

00:55:44.300 those who write history as X,

00:55:46.420 Y,

00:55:46.660 and Z.

00:55:47.260 And it's nothing like what Kavanaugh is going to be written for generations.

00:55:52.480 That will be in history books.

00:55:54.640 Correct.

00:55:54.960 And when they had to take his children out because it became violent and frightening,

00:56:02.900 and you could see the fear on their faces.

00:56:07.500 And then weeks go by and you see him back.

00:56:10.240 And he is,

00:56:11.680 he has righteous indignation.

00:56:13.520 What were you feeling during all that?

00:56:19.100 It's interesting,

00:56:20.300 the context in which you pointed out,

00:56:22.820 because when you have been wrongly accused of anything,

00:56:28.300 as I have in the,

00:56:31.160 especially in the last year,

00:56:32.800 you have a degree of understanding that I don't think many people do.

00:56:36.720 And so when I saw both the attack on him and his response,

00:56:41.580 I said,

00:56:41.880 that's what I would have done.

00:56:43.460 I,

00:56:43.700 if I had been falsely accused,

00:56:45.020 I would have come out and not done this gingerly.

00:56:47.780 Well,

00:56:48.060 Senator,

00:56:48.780 you know,

00:56:49.120 respectfully,

00:56:49.800 I,

00:56:50.140 you're going to attack me,

00:56:51.700 my character in front of my family in the world and not expecting to come

00:56:55.500 back.

00:56:56.080 I,

00:56:56.520 I,

00:56:57.100 to your point,

00:56:57.620 I don't know.

00:57:00.220 One,

00:57:00.700 I thought to have his wife,

00:57:02.500 Ashley sit there and listen to this has got to be unbelievably painful.

00:57:06.820 But then to have the kids and his parents and his parents,

00:57:10.400 I mean,

00:57:10.940 it's someone's worst nightmare times 10.

00:57:15.860 And I feel for that.

00:57:17.900 I don't,

00:57:18.780 I,

00:57:19.040 and this is what made it so difficult is that I,

00:57:20.940 I don't know exactly what happened to her.

00:57:22.800 I think something probably did.

00:57:24.280 I feel bad.

00:57:25.060 And I think we should treat women who've had,

00:57:27.040 we all agree.

00:57:29.520 I know.

00:57:29.960 And that's the,

00:57:30.420 I know that,

00:57:31.160 but the hard part about this was that I looked at this and said,

00:57:36.160 and just objectively and said,

00:57:38.120 okay,

00:57:38.260 if he's,

00:57:39.240 if there is evidence,

00:57:40.080 if another person comes forward,

00:57:41.580 if there's a pattern or whatever,

00:57:43.540 but yet,

00:57:45.600 you know,

00:57:46.280 there didn't.

00:57:47.260 And I go,

00:57:47.800 okay,

00:57:48.100 so this,

00:57:49.140 this,

00:57:49.740 we are going after this man.

00:57:51.820 And to your point for the rest,

00:57:53.060 it doesn't matter what decisions he casts on the Supreme court for the rest of

00:57:58.040 his life.

00:57:58.900 That will be the first line in his bio.

00:58:02.480 And,

00:58:02.980 and I,

00:58:03.220 I guess the difference between me and it sounds like you and,

00:58:08.220 and others who've been in this,

00:58:09.320 where you've been accused of things or called names in a very public way is

00:58:15.500 that there's a degree of going,

00:58:17.060 I know what that's like.

00:58:18.540 I know what it's like to sit there and,

00:58:20.520 and to some degree feel somewhat defenseless because until that hearing,

00:58:24.000 and until he,

00:58:24.680 you know,

00:58:24.860 he wrote the op-ed,

00:58:25.800 which is,

00:58:26.280 but you can't,

00:58:27.560 you're being told by everyone.

00:58:28.700 And I talked about this a moment ago,

00:58:30.060 let it go,

00:58:30.800 let it roll off your shoulder.

00:58:31.820 Don't respond.

00:58:32.540 Don't make it worse.

00:58:34.200 And you're going,

00:58:35.020 this is my name.

00:58:37.400 I mean,

00:58:38.000 and you want me to sit back and not amplify and make it bad.

00:58:41.520 Like how many people only heard the one accusation and not the response?

00:58:47.480 How many people are going to have that indelible mark in their head and says,

00:58:51.700 every time I hear that name,

00:58:52.760 this is what I think of that person.

00:58:54.700 And yet in most cases,

00:58:56.740 especially that one,

00:58:57.560 you're being told don't respond.

00:58:59.580 Don't do anything.

00:59:00.660 We'll take care of it.

00:59:01.600 We just need to get over this hurdle.

00:59:02.860 We need to get over that vote.

00:59:04.920 I can't possibly fathom.

00:59:08.400 I thought I had it bad at times.

00:59:11.360 What he and his family have gone through.

00:59:14.280 You know,

00:59:14.960 I truly pray for them.

00:59:16.720 So was his response when,

00:59:34.980 when it connected with America?

00:59:37.980 Cause it did.

00:59:39.080 Yep.

00:59:40.060 Parts of America.

00:59:41.000 Let me ask this question.

00:59:44.580 Cause you,

00:59:45.160 you're exactly right.

00:59:46.320 And I think we're on the same page.

00:59:51.320 I,

00:59:51.940 I think it connected on a personal level.

00:59:54.120 People saw this man and saw the injustice of,

00:59:57.480 you know,

00:59:58.260 we're,

00:59:58.440 we're,

00:59:58.840 we're a society that is,

01:00:00.420 you know,

01:00:01.360 guilty.

01:00:01.780 I mean,

01:00:02.220 innocent until proven guilty,

01:00:04.140 not innocent until someone accuses.

01:00:06.940 I mean,

01:00:07.160 that's the lowest standard.

01:00:09.260 That's what we broke away from England for.

01:00:11.560 You can't just do that to people.

01:00:14.220 So there was that.

01:00:16.540 But what do you think of the connection with the half of the country that has been called a bigot,

01:00:25.460 a racist,

01:00:26.920 a misogynist,

01:00:27.980 all these names for so long,

01:00:31.920 he was almost speaking for half the country who had been called names for so long saying,

01:00:40.680 shut up and sit down.

01:00:43.960 That's not who I am.

01:00:45.220 And that's wrong of you to even do this to me.

01:00:48.160 I'm this person,

01:00:49.800 not that.

01:00:50.900 And I'm not going to take it anymore.

01:00:53.320 It was almost a Howard Beale kind of connection where people were like,

01:00:58.980 well,

01:00:59.120 yeah,

01:00:59.200 that's the way I feel.

01:01:01.120 Yeah.

01:01:01.800 And it was all out there for people to see.

01:01:03.800 You're not reading this,

01:01:05.200 right?

01:01:05.540 You were watching it.

01:01:06.680 You saw his face,

01:01:08.580 the emotion,

01:01:09.260 the rawness of his defense of himself.

01:01:15.760 And I think for most people,

01:01:17.400 when they laid it out and said,

01:01:18.800 okay,

01:01:19.100 she's made these allegations.

01:01:22.120 She needs to be taken seriously,

01:01:23.800 incredibly.

01:01:24.540 But let's look at the facts.

01:01:26.660 Like,

01:01:26.780 you know,

01:01:27.040 she doesn't know where it was,

01:01:28.160 when it was.

01:01:28.860 He's laying it all out there.

01:01:30.120 And now here's the thing that I thought fascinating.

01:01:31.780 This is a brilliant man,

01:01:33.140 right?

01:01:33.360 No question about his intellectual prowess.

01:01:37.760 He knows.

01:01:38.280 If he had done something,

01:01:40.840 he could have easily just said,

01:01:42.280 you know,

01:01:42.680 you remember when George Bush had his DWI,

01:01:44.560 when I was young,

01:01:45.800 I was young and irresponsible.

01:01:46.920 I was young and irresponsible.

01:01:47.960 Yeah,

01:01:48.020 yeah,

01:01:48.060 yeah.

01:01:48.240 Okay.

01:01:48.720 He could have said something to the extent of,

01:01:50.480 you know,

01:01:50.660 when I was young,

01:01:51.320 I was immature.

01:01:52.020 I did some things that were complete and,

01:01:53.580 and sort of,

01:01:54.300 but he didn't,

01:01:55.160 he was indignant because he believes in that,

01:01:57.460 that it never happened,

01:01:58.700 that there was no incident.

01:02:00.200 And so for so many people,

01:02:02.680 like you said,

01:02:03.280 it wasn't like they saw this and said,

01:02:06.600 I know what it's like.

01:02:08.360 I've heard about this.

01:02:09.300 I have a son,

01:02:09.960 a daughter.

01:02:10.300 I would not want to be wrongly accused,

01:02:12.440 or I have been wrongly accused or,

01:02:14.740 and therefore now I'm fired up.

01:02:17.380 And it brought out a sense of emotion.

01:02:19.520 I mean,

01:02:19.720 there wasn't a person in this country that you could bump into,

01:02:23.720 no matter where you were,

01:02:25.240 that hadn't picked a side.

01:02:26.400 I mean,

01:02:26.820 there were people that picked Dr.

01:02:28.040 Ford's side.

01:02:28.540 There were people that had,

01:02:29.200 but everybody picked a side and it was intense and raw.

01:02:34.500 And wrong.

01:02:36.480 Because none of us know.

01:02:39.800 Well,

01:02:40.120 that's what I found fascinating.

01:02:41.260 Look,

01:02:41.640 we were asked to judge something where there is no yes,

01:02:46.220 or no.

01:02:47.140 And for so many people,

01:02:48.420 what I thought was fascinating is what I just told you is how I

01:02:51.820 approached this,

01:02:52.460 which is I said,

01:02:53.260 okay,

01:02:53.380 they're coming to this hearing.

01:02:54.280 Let's see what we've got to have an open mind about this.

01:02:57.400 She needs to be taken credibly and seriously.

01:02:59.300 Okay.

01:02:59.960 That's how I approached it.

01:03:01.120 But for so many folks on the left,

01:03:02.540 they said,

01:03:03.040 she's made this.

01:03:04.120 The standard on the left was she accused him.

01:03:06.760 Right.

01:03:07.440 But,

01:03:07.840 and again,

01:03:08.100 I'm not looking to get off of this,

01:03:09.260 but I find it fascinating when you talk about all these other

01:03:11.840 instances that have occurred.

01:03:13.200 I think there's something with Claire McCaskill's husband that's just

01:03:15.500 come out.

01:03:16.100 There is something that occurred with Keith Ellison,

01:03:18.140 all of these other women,

01:03:19.920 Clinton,

01:03:20.380 you name it.

01:03:20.860 How come those women aren't believed first?

01:03:24.240 It's to me,

01:03:25.520 I think the problem I have,

01:03:27.160 and this gets into what we saw,

01:03:29.620 which was the problem the left had in this argument was the hypocrisy

01:03:34.880 played into it.

01:03:35.780 Because as people said,

01:03:36.880 okay,

01:03:37.040 well,

01:03:37.220 if you're going to believe this,

01:03:38.420 if this is the standard,

01:03:39.780 what about them?

01:03:40.920 What about all these other women that have made the,

01:03:42.420 and it was,

01:03:42.980 Oh,

01:03:43.100 I don't want to talk about this when,

01:03:44.500 when,

01:03:44.780 um,

01:03:45.520 uh,

01:03:46.500 uh,

01:03:47.060 the,

01:03:47.460 from Minnesota,

01:03:48.340 uh,

01:03:48.840 Keith Ellison,

01:03:49.440 but,

01:03:49.820 but the,

01:03:50.180 the,

01:03:50.460 I'm trying to think of Amy Klobuchar was asked,

01:03:52.500 will you campaign with him?

01:03:55.420 Not even will you denounce him?

01:03:56.600 Will you campaign with him?

01:03:57.900 She said,

01:03:58.600 I'm going to campaign for the ticket.

01:04:00.920 When Kamala Harris from California,

01:04:03.720 this champion of women was asked by the Washington post,

01:04:06.700 what she thought about Keith Ellison.

01:04:08.820 She said,

01:04:09.380 I'm going to let the DNC investigation get,

01:04:13.120 you know,

01:04:13.280 go through the process.

01:04:14.160 Now stop for a moment.

01:04:15.600 Yeah.

01:04:15.960 How insane is that?

01:04:17.780 The democratic national committee,

01:04:19.640 a political entity that probably has five people in the HR department is hardly an

01:04:23.900 investigative body.

01:04:25.060 And suddenly this incident that allegedly happened in Minnesota,

01:04:28.680 she's putting her faith and trust in the democratic national committee to

01:04:32.200 confide.

01:04:32.520 And yet no one in the media asked to follow up.

01:04:35.740 No one.

01:04:37.100 And yet that's how the left deals with their own.

01:04:40.180 And yet when it came to Kavanaugh and this accusation,

01:04:43.160 well,

01:04:43.700 we should believe first and ask later.

01:04:45.580 I just think that part of what happened,

01:04:47.280 it wasn't just about Brett Kavanaugh.

01:04:49.040 It was about the hypocrisy about this.

01:04:52.040 Accuse first,

01:04:53.280 convict later.

01:04:53.940 You're guilty until proven innocent.

01:04:55.860 And I think for a lot of people,

01:04:57.560 they just said,

01:04:58.380 and this is the thing,

01:04:59.040 even the media tried to make this out to women versus men.

01:05:01.400 It wasn't more and more women that I talked to were like,

01:05:04.060 this is,

01:05:04.400 I don't want to be like,

01:05:05.540 you know,

01:05:05.980 this undermines some of the serious allegations that people that I know have put

01:05:09.640 forward.

01:05:10.100 And,

01:05:10.520 and I thought it's going to go down as a very defining moment.

01:05:14.400 I think in history,

01:05:15.320 I was really surprised when I,

01:05:19.100 uh,

01:05:19.940 I worked at,

01:05:21.000 uh,

01:05:21.340 Fox because I knew my job was to get eyeballs.

01:05:24.780 Right.

01:05:25.380 But I also believed in some things,

01:05:27.960 you know,

01:05:28.860 everything I said,

01:05:29.560 I believed in unless it was a joke.

01:05:31.120 But that joke was to get you to watch the point I was trying to make.

01:05:36.720 It doesn't mean that I was right on my theories,

01:05:39.760 but I was accurate in the information that I presented.

01:05:45.500 Um,

01:05:46.260 and I thought if I can get enough eyeballs,

01:05:50.640 there's got to be journalists out there who will say that guy's a nut job and

01:05:55.120 is crazy.

01:05:56.720 But that,

01:05:58.060 I mean,

01:05:58.860 he's showing the documents.

01:06:01.260 Hey guys,

01:06:02.280 come over here and look at this.

01:06:03.740 Can we just look at that and see if that's right?

01:06:07.240 Nobody ever went and looked at the facts of what I was laying on.

01:06:11.180 They would take my theories.

01:06:13.160 They would take my approach apart,

01:06:16.440 but they wouldn't take the facts.

01:06:17.740 And I thought to myself,

01:06:19.940 I was shocked,

01:06:21.500 shocked because I thought somebody's intellectually honest and curious.

01:06:28.260 That was my lesson about the press.

01:06:31.280 What was your lesson with the press?

01:06:35.180 Oh,

01:06:35.300 I don't know that we have enough time.

01:06:38.840 Um,

01:06:38.960 I think the number one thing is how little,

01:06:42.440 I always knew it was sensational.

01:06:44.500 Like it's,

01:06:45.060 there's no question.

01:06:45.560 Take the bias aside.

01:06:47.440 The degree to which people will say or do anything to get a clip or a click blew my mind.

01:06:52.440 And I always knowingly knowingly that it was,

01:06:57.720 I'm going to be more outrageous.

01:06:59.640 I'm going,

01:07:00.160 I mean,

01:07:00.340 I had countless instances where a journalist would walk back after a briefing and say,

01:07:04.880 Hey man,

01:07:05.160 sorry about that.

01:07:05.900 I,

01:07:06.420 my,

01:07:06.680 my editor,

01:07:07.420 my boss really wanted me to make a big point today about this,

01:07:09.860 whatever.

01:07:10.220 And it wasn't that it was,

01:07:11.780 I mean,

01:07:11.960 I'll give you an example.

01:07:12.740 There were times when they knew we couldn't answer a question.

01:07:15.640 Maybe it was a political question.

01:07:17.220 Okay.

01:07:17.520 Or I'll give you one.

01:07:18.420 Sarah asked,

01:07:19.180 they asked Sarah one the other day.

01:07:20.300 They said,

01:07:20.600 can you guarantee the president's now Sarah's what?

01:07:24.280 30 something years old.

01:07:25.200 The president's 72.

01:07:26.400 Who in their right mind can guarantee anything unless you spend 24 hours,

01:07:30.860 seven days a week,

01:07:31.440 365.

01:07:32.240 I mean,

01:07:32.420 that's the dumbest question.

01:07:34.080 And then the headline afterwards on CNN was white house cannot guarantee X.

01:07:38.040 Of course they can't.

01:07:39.620 No one can guarantee anything but themselves.

01:07:41.740 You know,

01:07:42.160 I can guarantee I won't do this.

01:07:44.200 But if someone says,

01:07:44.780 Sean,

01:07:44.940 can you guarantee that Glenn won't do the following?

01:07:47.680 That's a stupid question,

01:07:49.520 but it's said for an intent,

01:07:52.060 which is I need to be able to get up on the evening and says when asked today,

01:07:54.760 the white house refused to guarantee the following.

01:07:57.360 And it makes it sound like you're being evasive or untruthful.

01:08:00.180 When the fact of the matter is,

01:08:01.200 is you're being completely honest and saying,

01:08:02.940 I can't be,

01:08:04.220 or they would get up and say,

01:08:05.560 Hey,

01:08:05.740 are you going to win that race in Georgia eight?

01:08:07.400 And you'd say,

01:08:07.760 unfortunately,

01:08:08.100 as you know,

01:08:08.820 because of the hatch act,

01:08:09.700 I'm unable to think the white house today refused from the podium to

01:08:12.700 comment on why that.

01:08:13.660 Well,

01:08:13.860 of course,

01:08:14.500 because you know that you can't answer a political question from the

01:08:17.620 podium.

01:08:18.840 And I was constantly amazed at the number of people who'd ask a question

01:08:22.460 purely for the goal of trying to get a clip or a click out of it when they

01:08:27.140 knew the answer or they knew the reaction ahead of time.

01:08:33.980 The president says the press is the enemy of the people.

01:08:39.280 I go back and forth.

01:08:41.860 I think,

01:08:42.740 no,

01:08:43.060 you have a right.

01:08:44.140 I mean,

01:08:44.820 I read the arguments between the founders,

01:08:48.120 you know,

01:08:48.520 on the sedition act and they went so far as saying,

01:08:51.800 even if you knowingly lie,

01:08:54.240 you knowingly lie.

01:08:56.200 The press is protected to say that.

01:08:58.600 I mean,

01:08:58.780 that's how far they went.

01:09:00.420 Right.

01:09:01.540 Okay.

01:09:02.080 So,

01:09:02.580 however,

01:09:04.460 when you are feeding a patient and you know,

01:09:09.480 it is being fed this steady diet and you really are the main nutrition

01:09:16.520 that that body is getting and you're filling it knowingly with untruths and

01:09:22.360 poison.

01:09:25.980 Aren't you an enemy of the patient?

01:09:29.360 So here's the,

01:09:30.480 the way I look at this.

01:09:33.020 I think that,

01:09:34.160 um,

01:09:35.340 as a conservative,

01:09:36.900 as we talked about a moment ago,

01:09:38.580 I hate when people making an assumption as to who I am or what I believe

01:09:42.340 because I believe in them.

01:09:43.260 So I look at this and say,

01:09:44.800 okay,

01:09:44.980 to use a broad brush with any industry and say,

01:09:47.260 okay,

01:09:47.400 all lawyers are horrible.

01:09:48.540 All doctors are good.

01:09:49.580 All members of the press.

01:09:50.660 So here's the problem I have with that statement.

01:09:55.300 I look at the blaze,

01:09:57.100 the daily caller,

01:09:58.200 Breitbart,

01:09:59.040 Fox news,

01:10:00.100 the examiner,

01:10:00.920 the Washington times,

01:10:02.140 and I'm probably missing 50 other people plus columnists and whatever that I

01:10:06.280 would call part of the press,

01:10:08.500 the media.

01:10:09.560 I hardly think any of those people are bad or those institutions are.

01:10:13.380 I think that most of them are very good.

01:10:16.600 And so I think when you throw the baby out with the bath water,

01:10:19.860 then you get rid of all the good.

01:10:22.400 And the problem,

01:10:23.280 one of the things that I did when I was press secretary is I started to call

01:10:26.080 them.

01:10:26.660 I brought in local media.

01:10:28.200 I brought in talk radio for the first time via Skype.

01:10:32.340 And the reason I did so,

01:10:34.280 and I,

01:10:34.520 by the way,

01:10:34.840 the other thing is I stopped calling on the people in the front row.

01:10:36.920 First,

01:10:37.960 I made them listen to other people's questions because my view was,

01:10:41.720 is that I wanted to,

01:10:42.700 to some degree,

01:10:43.280 allow other issues and questions to get heard by everybody so that the

01:10:47.700 Washington post,

01:10:48.360 the New York times,

01:10:48.900 ABC,

01:10:49.360 CNN didn't decide what the narrative was every day.

01:10:54.200 The issues that are going to drive the media.

01:10:57.200 So my belief is that the media has a right to say what they want.

01:11:02.720 And if you look at the ratings,

01:11:04.340 take a look at CNN,

01:11:05.220 any given week down further and further every week,

01:11:07.700 right?

01:11:09.220 That we have as a conservative,

01:11:11.500 I believe in demand and supply and demand.

01:11:14.360 Look at what's going on.

01:11:15.400 The proliferation of these people online podcasts,

01:11:19.160 talk radio.

01:11:20.520 This is because people have said,

01:11:21.940 I don't want to get my news from there anymore.

01:11:24.040 I don't believe it.

01:11:24.900 I don't find it credible.

01:11:25.880 They're not covering certain issues,

01:11:27.500 whatever it is,

01:11:28.800 but all of these people are rising and these institutions,

01:11:33.460 yours in particular,

01:11:34.260 because people are saying,

01:11:35.640 I trust these people more.

01:11:37.460 They're covering issues I care about.

01:11:40.200 And so I believe that to some degree,

01:11:42.980 they are going to be a victim of their own narratives.

01:11:47.900 Because as you look at a lot of these folks,

01:11:49.940 they,

01:11:50.560 you know,

01:11:50.820 they're losing market share.

01:11:52.220 There's a rise in alternative forms of media and other platforms.

01:11:56.480 Because I think more and more Americans,

01:11:58.800 are saying,

01:11:59.640 I'm tired of hearing.

01:12:01.420 I mean,

01:12:01.640 if you turn on some of these cable news channels,

01:12:03.900 all it is,

01:12:04.420 is one critique of the president after another,

01:12:07.220 trying to figure out who can fumble further to the left.

01:12:10.920 I think my line recently was with Khashoggi.

01:12:17.340 Within two hours,

01:12:19.340 within two hours,

01:12:21.260 they were saying,

01:12:22.240 you know,

01:12:22.440 Donald Trump is very close to the Saudis.

01:12:25.300 And,

01:12:25.680 you know,

01:12:26.220 his son-in-law was just a,

01:12:28.600 what are you kidding me?

01:12:30.480 How did Donald Trump even get into that story?

01:12:32.980 You want to hear the best one?

01:12:34.600 There is a tweet that a White House reporter sent out the other day.

01:12:39.240 He was on the streets of New York.

01:12:41.280 He apparently has a small child.

01:12:42.980 The child was knocked down by some rude,

01:12:45.220 inappropriate person.

01:12:47.500 In New York?

01:12:48.220 I've never heard of it.

01:12:50.560 Okay, well,

01:12:50.800 you know,

01:12:51.060 you're in New York.

01:12:52.120 And so the individual,

01:12:53.960 the reporter went and went after this individual and said,

01:12:56.320 you just knocked my child down.

01:12:57.240 And they said something,

01:12:57.980 you know,

01:12:58.160 I don't care,

01:12:59.000 inappropriate or whatever.

01:13:00.240 And the reporter tweeted out,

01:13:01.840 only in the era of Donald Trump would this occur.

01:13:05.520 Think about that.

01:13:06.760 And I was like,

01:13:07.300 do you realize that people can see these tweets?

01:13:09.720 Like,

01:13:10.200 you were tweeting out that,

01:13:11.660 like,

01:13:12.140 this moron knocked your kid down,

01:13:15.300 which is wrong,

01:13:16.120 inappropriate.

01:13:16.560 Disrespectful,

01:13:19.560 whatever word you want.

01:13:20.280 But how is that Donald Trump's fault?

01:13:22.920 And there is no problem.

01:13:24.800 The head of Politico the other day tweets out,

01:13:27.380 after someone says something about a white supremacist,

01:13:29.620 says he wants to take over the GOP,

01:13:30.880 the head of Politico tweets out,

01:13:32.700 I thought that job was taken.

01:13:35.380 And there is no,

01:13:36.940 no condemnation,

01:13:39.720 no problem.

01:13:40.500 Business as usual.

01:13:41.320 Keep going.

01:13:42.360 So for all these folks who talk about Trump's tweets,

01:13:45.320 Trump's comments,

01:13:46.560 no matter what they say,

01:13:48.500 it's all excused.

01:13:50.060 That's my biggest problem with them,

01:13:51.760 is they don't,

01:13:52.720 there is nothing that one of their own can't do.

01:13:55.440 No self-awareness.

01:13:56.200 As long as you work for one of them,

01:13:57.780 you're fine.

01:13:58.940 You're protected.

01:14:02.200 Which leads me to this.

01:14:06.980 There,

01:14:07.420 where we now are living in a world that is playing for keeps.

01:14:13.500 It's,

01:14:13.860 it's,

01:14:14.540 you know,

01:14:16.460 when the communist 10 went to prison,

01:14:19.940 all those communists from the McCarthy era,

01:14:23.360 they still worked.

01:14:24.620 They still wrote under pseudonyms.

01:14:26.820 They,

01:14:27.080 you know,

01:14:27.400 they,

01:14:27.560 they still could get jobs.

01:14:30.480 Not anymore.

01:14:32.020 Not anymore.

01:14:34.020 If you are not part of the protected class,

01:14:38.580 they can destroy you forever.

01:14:42.240 Yes.

01:14:43.140 You went out for the Emmys.

01:14:45.740 And I thought very brave,

01:14:49.720 foolish.

01:14:51.460 Well,

01:14:52.020 right.

01:14:52.380 But you know,

01:14:53.360 you might've thought,

01:14:55.060 Hey,

01:14:55.900 we're all in this together.

01:14:59.100 Um,

01:14:59.720 and normally that would have worked.

01:15:02.520 Yeah.

01:15:04.000 They were not going to let you in.

01:15:08.060 To be clear,

01:15:09.040 I didn't want to be in.

01:15:10.360 I thought,

01:15:10.780 look at,

01:15:11.400 I'm a working class kid from Rhode Island.

01:15:13.520 The idea that I'd get invited to the Emmys,

01:15:15.140 he's never meant to be on stage.

01:15:16.040 I thought,

01:15:16.300 Holy smokes,

01:15:16.700 this is cool.

01:15:17.340 And the criteria that I gave when they approached me about this,

01:15:19.800 I said,

01:15:20.040 look,

01:15:20.420 here's the thing.

01:15:20.880 If it's funny,

01:15:21.620 if I can make fun of myself a little and be,

01:15:23.420 and show,

01:15:23.800 Hey,

01:15:23.920 look,

01:15:24.160 I'm a funny guy,

01:15:25.360 blah,

01:15:25.520 blah,

01:15:25.580 blah.

01:15:25.760 And then it's fine.

01:15:26.800 If you make fun of the president or whatever,

01:15:28.480 then like,

01:15:28.920 that's not like go on your merry way.

01:15:31.120 I thought it was funny.

01:15:31.900 I get it.

01:15:32.680 I got plenty of criticism from folks on the right that said,

01:15:35.000 how dare you collude with them,

01:15:36.300 whatever.

01:15:36.500 And I thought,

01:15:37.020 but the thing that I thought was so funny is for eight hours,

01:15:42.160 I wasn't looking to be anyone's pal.

01:15:44.960 I get this.

01:15:45.420 This is,

01:15:45.820 I know where they stand.

01:15:46.780 I think they know where I stand.

01:15:47.660 We're not going to agree on policy or politics,

01:15:50.080 but they were all like,

01:15:52.640 Hey man,

01:15:52.900 that was funny.

01:15:53.340 I'm glad you came out and showed that you could be a little self

01:15:55.140 deprecating and funny.

01:15:56.720 The second that the left rose up and it was about 12 hours from the

01:16:02.140 time that it aired.

01:16:02.780 And it was,

01:16:03.500 everyone needed to condemn me.

01:16:05.960 James Corden had to apologize three times for giving me a kiss on the

01:16:10.300 chair.

01:16:10.480 He did this funny.

01:16:11.280 Oh,

01:16:11.540 that was hysterical.

01:16:12.580 Alec Baldwin,

01:16:13.180 who had said something very nice.

01:16:15.080 Hey,

01:16:15.200 that was,

01:16:15.680 that was great that you came out and did that 12 within 12 hours was

01:16:19.120 saying,

01:16:19.440 you know,

01:16:19.760 although I don't agree with anything he did and he's a horrible person.

01:16:22.300 It's like,

01:16:22.880 wait a second.

01:16:23.880 There are plenty of times when I think folks on the left,

01:16:27.360 I don't agree with their policy.

01:16:28.800 I don't agree with some of the things,

01:16:29.520 but they may do something or have an experience.

01:16:31.120 I say,

01:16:31.340 Hey,

01:16:31.680 congratulations.

01:16:32.460 Well done.

01:16:33.140 Or just being polite.

01:16:35.240 Being friendly,

01:16:36.880 being hospitable,

01:16:38.280 being welcoming.

01:16:39.060 I mean,

01:16:39.340 having a,

01:16:40.120 and yet for some reason,

01:16:41.740 the way that human,

01:16:43.000 yes,

01:16:43.700 not chasing you out of the human race.

01:16:47.160 And this idea that somehow being polite,

01:16:51.500 kind and respectful was apparently too much for the left.

01:16:56.080 And suddenly online and everywhere it was,

01:16:59.600 you must condemn him.

01:17:01.580 How dare you quote the phrase that came out was,

01:17:04.140 how dare you normalize him?

01:17:06.560 He can't be normalized.

01:17:09.340 Which to me,

01:17:10.420 I still don't understand that.

01:17:11.520 I think of myself as a fairly normal guy.

01:17:14.460 And this idea that I had to know.

01:17:16.100 And I was like,

01:17:16.880 wait,

01:17:17.060 who are you to set the bar as to what is normal and fair?

01:17:21.300 And,

01:17:21.400 you know,

01:17:22.260 and I made it very clear to folks like,

01:17:24.500 I'm not looking to be normalized.

01:17:25.600 I'm proud of what I did.

01:17:26.620 I'm proud of who I am.

01:17:27.440 And I'm proud of what I stand for.

01:17:29.420 It's funny because when I,

01:17:30.980 I first sat down here before you walked on the stage,

01:17:34.360 I,

01:17:35.400 I thought,

01:17:37.760 what am I going to,

01:17:38.560 how am I going to start this?

01:17:39.420 I thought,

01:17:39.680 you know,

01:17:39.860 I want to start with who he was before he became the cartoon character.

01:17:44.180 And the first thought was,

01:17:46.860 I'll see it now.

01:17:49.040 Glenn Beck normalizes Sean Spicer.

01:17:52.820 Cause that's what they do.

01:17:54.600 That's what they say.

01:17:55.780 This is,

01:17:56.220 this is wrong to take the cartoon character,

01:18:00.880 break it apart and recognize,

01:18:03.240 oh,

01:18:03.340 wow,

01:18:03.460 there's a human in there.

01:18:04.680 And the irony is think about how many times they've had.

01:18:09.920 I mean,

01:18:10.320 you remember just since it's on topic,

01:18:13.700 but Alec Baldwin had this outrageous fit with his,

01:18:16.800 his daughter.

01:18:18.200 Yeah.

01:18:18.880 And how many of them have these breakdowns or instances in public,

01:18:23.160 and yet they go through whatever they have to Hollywood cleansing and they

01:18:28.720 come out and suddenly it's okay,

01:18:29.900 well,

01:18:30.020 we should give you a show now.

01:18:31.300 Right.

01:18:31.940 I'm not the one who publicly yelled at my daughter or a family member or

01:18:35.160 berated somebody.

01:18:36.580 You may not like my politics or my policies or what I've said.

01:18:40.800 And frankly,

01:18:41.160 in some of the cases I've said,

01:18:42.220 Hey,

01:18:42.320 wow,

01:18:42.500 I screwed up.

01:18:42.880 But in a lot of cases,

01:18:43.500 I'm still proud of it.

01:18:44.540 What I stood for and what we fought for and what we accomplished,

01:18:47.100 frankly,

01:18:47.500 but somehow they get a pass on everything that they do.

01:18:52.780 And yet I need to be normalized.

01:18:54.560 What is the future for you?

01:19:08.740 What is the future for you?

01:19:13.300 That's a great question.

01:19:14.300 You know,

01:19:16.800 I've had fun the last year.

01:19:20.380 I've done cool.

01:19:21.200 Like,

01:19:21.400 look,

01:19:21.760 I,

01:19:21.960 like I just said,

01:19:23.200 yeah,

01:19:23.320 standby.

01:19:23.680 I went out.

01:19:24.020 I had fun at the Emmys.

01:19:24.860 I've had some entertainment projects that have come my way.

01:19:26.760 I wrote a book.

01:19:27.620 Um,

01:19:28.620 I've traveled the country.

01:19:29.560 I've done a ton of speeches and events.

01:19:32.140 I love interacting with folks.

01:19:34.320 Um,

01:19:34.600 and so part of it as I enter next year is to evaluate some of these opportunities and figure

01:19:40.000 out what is the most sustainable thing for my family.

01:19:42.660 I've got a consulting group,

01:19:44.040 uh,

01:19:44.700 where we have a couple of clients.

01:19:46.540 I've got to figure out whether I want to grow that.

01:19:48.980 Um,

01:19:49.440 I launched a website,

01:19:50.640 Sean Spicer.com.

01:19:51.580 I've got a podcast of my own that just came out with Katie Pavlich called everything's going

01:19:55.700 to be all right.

01:19:56.460 As we,

01:19:57.220 we've got a limited engagement with intercom for 12 episodes.

01:20:00.840 Let's see where it goes.

01:20:01.900 I'm not in any hurry for the first time in my life.

01:20:04.460 I'm not staffing somebody else and I'm enjoying it.

01:20:09.100 I'm having fun.

01:20:09.860 And I don't feel this sense of immediacy to determine what the path is for the next 10,

01:20:17.480 20 years.

01:20:18.160 But if I can have fun,

01:20:19.180 make some money along the way and provide for my family,

01:20:21.220 that's,

01:20:21.640 that's the path I'm going to go down.

01:20:23.100 I just,

01:20:23.860 part of it is to figure out which one of these routes has got the sustainability that I need

01:20:30.240 in my life.

01:20:31.640 Would you do it all again?

01:20:32.920 Yes.

01:20:33.560 Would I do it differently?

01:20:34.720 Yes.

01:20:35.840 I'm proud of serving this country.

01:20:38.000 I'm proud of what I did.

01:20:39.160 And,

01:20:39.440 but I,

01:20:40.500 but I would do it differently.

01:20:43.640 There are things that I did that there are things that I said,

01:20:46.620 there are interactions that I had.

01:20:48.320 There are days when I look back and in the heat of the moment,

01:20:51.260 even in a private setting in my office,

01:20:52.640 there was a reporter who came in and did something and I'd say,

01:20:54.620 you know what?

01:20:54.860 Just get out.

01:20:55.820 And I look back at myself.

01:20:56.740 I go,

01:20:56.860 who are you?

01:20:57.460 Why did you,

01:20:58.020 you should have been a better person.

01:20:59.520 And so do I look back on small interactions like that?

01:21:03.280 Yeah.

01:21:03.460 Do I look back on press conferences?

01:21:04.780 Do I look back on advice that I gave the president or didn't give him?

01:21:08.740 Sure.

01:21:09.600 I look back on a whole series of things and I think that,

01:21:13.580 but I have no regrets in the sense of what I've done and why I've done it.

01:21:17.360 It was an amazing opportunity.

01:21:18.640 I mean,

01:21:19.180 Glenn,

01:21:20.040 I,

01:21:20.420 I grew up in Rhode Island in a family that voted.

01:21:25.060 I didn't know the difference between Republican and Democrat to college.

01:21:28.360 And here I am standing in the press secretary's office,

01:21:32.780 20 feet from the Oval Office with walk-in privileges and whatever.

01:21:35.880 I mean,

01:21:36.220 what an awesome,

01:21:38.340 awesome privilege.

01:21:40.120 I don't care who you are.

01:21:42.020 The idea of this,

01:21:42.900 I didn't think I could get a tour as a kid.

01:21:45.400 We stood outside.

01:21:45.860 I have pictures of me and my parents when I moved to DC,

01:21:48.640 standing outside the gate right in front of Lafayette park.

01:21:52.080 This is,

01:21:53.260 I cannot explain to people.

01:21:56.440 Like I feel blessed for what I did.

01:21:58.840 Would I do it differently?

01:22:00.140 Absolutely.

01:22:02.100 But I don't know that there's an interaction that I've had over my adult

01:22:06.040 life that I haven't looked back.

01:22:07.120 There's in the test that I wouldn't have said,

01:22:08.580 gosh,

01:22:08.720 I would have studied a little bit harder.

01:22:10.340 There isn't a,

01:22:10.920 you know,

01:22:11.340 a thing that I've written.

01:22:12.320 I said,

01:22:12.500 yeah,

01:22:12.640 I should have included this.

01:22:14.620 If you're satisfied with everything,

01:22:16.320 God,

01:22:16.500 I'd love to meet you.

01:22:18.640 I don't,

01:22:19.660 I,

01:22:19.960 but,

01:22:20.300 but I think that,

01:22:21.000 you know,

01:22:21.560 I,

01:22:22.120 I live life.

01:22:23.100 Not only,

01:22:23.500 I don't look back on it.

01:22:24.360 Here's all the regret.

01:22:25.420 I look back thinking,

01:22:26.800 how can I be better?

01:22:28.440 What's going to make the next day better than the next?

01:22:30.700 What's going to make my interaction with you better than the one that I had an

01:22:33.860 hour ago with somebody else?

01:22:34.740 Cause I said,

01:22:35.100 wow,

01:22:35.280 you know what?

01:22:35.540 The next time I meet somebody,

01:22:36.540 I should be a little bit more pleasant or I should make sure I thank them for

01:22:39.420 this opportunity or whatever it is.

01:22:40.600 But that's how I live life.

01:22:45.140 10 years from now,

01:22:46.720 what's your life look like?

01:22:48.280 What does the country look like?

01:22:54.040 Mine?

01:22:55.540 I'd just be shy of 60.

01:22:57.580 I hope that I'm not working like in a sense of working for money.

01:23:01.940 I'd,

01:23:02.340 I'd like to do the,

01:23:03.780 I,

01:23:04.000 I,

01:23:04.500 I'd love to be doing stuff with my kids more like,

01:23:07.980 Hey,

01:23:08.060 I'm going to coach full time.

01:23:09.440 I'm going to,

01:23:09.920 I love that stuff.

01:23:11.040 And I don't know that it's possible,

01:23:12.880 but if you ask me,

01:23:13.500 what would I love to do?

01:23:14.480 And to figure out a way between now and the time I'm 60 years old to be

01:23:17.840 financially independent and do things I like.

01:23:21.660 I'm passionate about veterans projects,

01:23:23.500 about adoption,

01:23:24.400 cancer research.

01:23:25.060 If I can go out and be supporting things that I love and interact with my kids,

01:23:28.540 that's what I'd love to do.

01:23:30.060 There's a little financial,

01:23:31.200 hurt of the country where the country is.

01:23:36.020 I hate to say this because I don't think if we don't have a course correction,

01:23:39.360 we're in a bad place.

01:23:40.700 I don't like where we are.

01:23:42.380 I don't like where we're going.

01:23:44.020 I don't like the,

01:23:45.080 the,

01:23:45.420 the amount of the,

01:23:46.700 the discourse that we're having.

01:23:49.860 And so I think at some point we have to have this,

01:23:55.700 this sort of national come to Jesus.

01:23:58.260 You know,

01:23:58.740 there was a similar,

01:23:59.660 but different experience after Vietnam in the seventies where people were at each

01:24:03.420 other's throats and we were riding in the street and whatever.

01:24:05.960 And somehow we healed.

01:24:07.260 And I wasn't old enough to understand or appreciate how that the country went

01:24:11.080 through that.

01:24:11.460 But I think that,

01:24:13.240 you know,

01:24:14.140 when people ask me all the time at events,

01:24:15.580 they say,

01:24:15.800 where,

01:24:16.000 how do we go from there?

01:24:16.840 I look at it the same way.

01:24:18.280 They look at a lot of problems in the country.

01:24:19.880 People who believe in turmoil.

01:24:21.060 And it's like,

01:24:21.300 why?

01:24:21.680 Cause you don't get out and vote.

01:24:24.220 That's how I,

01:24:24.940 and I believe that when people ask me,

01:24:26.160 what do we need to do in this country?

01:24:27.100 My answer is then just look in the mirror.

01:24:30.080 Because if you expect every politician to fix your problem of every world leader,

01:24:33.640 then you're,

01:24:34.220 you're mistaken.

01:24:35.840 And the point that I make to people is the next time that someone has a

01:24:38.520 discussion and they say,

01:24:40.180 well,

01:24:40.280 here's what I believe,

01:24:41.040 or I'm not sure.

01:24:41.960 And I'm not going to jump down the throat,

01:24:43.260 stand up and say,

01:24:43.860 Hey,

01:24:43.960 excuse me,

01:24:44.340 let's listen to them for a second.

01:24:46.120 Let them,

01:24:46.640 let them speak,

01:24:47.260 let them hear,

01:24:47.900 let them,

01:24:48.260 let's,

01:24:48.520 let's make a point.

01:24:50.060 But we all have to be part of the solution.

01:24:52.180 That sounds very naive and very,

01:24:54.880 you know,

01:24:55.240 actually probably very progressive in a way,

01:24:57.500 but,

01:24:58.060 but,

01:24:58.340 but we cannot expect government and everyone else to solve our problem.

01:25:02.600 We have an issue as a society.

01:25:04.360 And what troubles me most is as I still believe the greatest country on the,

01:25:08.860 on the face of this earth.

01:25:10.060 If people keep seeing us devolve in the way that we are as a society,

01:25:14.220 then they're going to look at it and say,

01:25:16.120 Hey,

01:25:16.220 that's not a bad way.

01:25:16.980 Then we can do that too.

01:25:18.420 Or we can behave that way.

01:25:20.000 Or we can model our politics that way.

01:25:22.020 I think that's problematic.

01:25:23.400 And I think it's going to take a lot of leaders standing up and saying,

01:25:27.300 we need to listen a little bit more.

01:25:28.880 We need to be a little bit more respectful and civil.

01:25:31.160 And that's what I think where,

01:25:32.860 what really scares me is where we are now,

01:25:35.140 where it's almost like people are encouraging,

01:25:38.880 instigating,

01:25:39.880 and allowing a lot of the discourse to go so far off,

01:25:44.280 whether it's Senator Cruz,

01:25:46.280 Elaine Chao and Mitch McConnell,

01:25:48.940 all of these people who are being attacked.

01:25:50.720 Senator Flake in an elevator,

01:25:52.560 Sarah Sanders,

01:25:53.900 Pam Bondi,

01:25:55.040 you name it.

01:25:56.200 This idea that that's the new normal.

01:25:59.480 God help us.

01:26:00.260 Thank you.

01:26:02.160 Thank you.

01:26:15.020 Thank you.

01:26:16.840 Thank you.

01:26:17.200 Thank you.

01:26:21.040 Thank you.

01:26:23.760 Thank you.

01:26:24.080 We'll be right back.

The Glenn Beck Program - November 03, 2018

Ep 9 ｜ Sean Spicer ｜ The Glenn Beck Podcast

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