00:00:08.900And I just want to make it really clear on who we're talking about.
00:00:12.440This man is the award winning New York Times bestselling international investigative author of 200 award winning editions in 20 languages in 190 countries,
00:00:25.560as well as scores of newspaper magazine articles, the leading publications of the United States, Europe and Israel.
00:00:32.060More than one point six million books in print.
00:00:35.000His work focuses on human rights, genocide and hate, corporate criminality and corruption, governmental misconduct, academic fraud, philanthropic abuse, oil addiction, alternative energy and historic investigation.
00:00:50.360He has been his name has been submitted 11 times for a Pulitzer Prize.
00:00:57.060He is a recipient of I mean, it goes on a list of awards.
00:01:02.960He is probably the leading scholar on how mechanically the Nazis did what they did.
00:01:13.820I quoted him a couple of weeks ago when I got in trouble with the press.
00:01:18.340I think I was on Tucker Carlson show and I said, we are seeing the beginning of a digital ghetto.
00:05:21.280So, you know, the book has withstood the test of time.
00:05:25.820So not a fact or a comma has been changed in 20 years.
00:05:29.080So I want to talk to you about some of the details, look into what the meaning of that is, what we can learn from it for today and tomorrow.
00:05:39.620But first, just lay out the premise of the book, because a lot of people were involved with the Nazi.
00:05:46.680Henry Ford wrote a horrible, horrible book during the Nazi period called The Vanishing.
00:05:54.260I think it was the was it The Vanishing Jew?
00:06:09.400What is the difference between that and IBM?
00:06:13.560Well, that's a very excellent question.
00:06:17.640First, there were more than 100 major corporations in the United States and in England that were engaged in trading with the enemy.
00:06:28.540So you had a department store in London that was selling needle and that was selling uniforms to the Nazis.
00:06:39.120But by the same token, the Nazis already knew the secret of needle and thread.
00:06:43.880The difference between plane trading with the enemy and five corporations, some of which you've alluded to, that were directly involved in the size and scope of the Holocaust.
00:06:58.520And the first one we discovered was the first moment.
00:07:01.520And that was the first moment when the world realized that a major American corporation was directly involved and complicit in the actual execution of the Holocaust.
00:07:17.580And in this case, much more than the execution, just the actually the organizing and the co-planning.
00:07:25.700And thereafter, I discovered that the Carnegie Institution, the Rockefeller Foundation, Ford Motor Company, not just Henry Ford, Ford Motor Company, as you said.
00:07:36.980And of course, one of the most criminal corporations in the United States, General Motors, were direct allies of the Nazi regime and or were into were integrally involved in the size, scope and shape of the Holocaust.
00:07:57.200Those are the those are the main five.
00:07:59.160So I I used to know the name of the company because it was kind of seared in my head for a while.
00:08:05.800I remember going to Auschwitz and looking at the ovens and on the door of one of the ovens was the logo.
00:08:16.580I think it said Toth, maybe, but it was the logo and the trademark or the patent on that device.
00:08:26.580And I thought, oh, my gosh, you not only knew what you were building, you patented it.
00:08:40.740And that company actually bid on on the business.
00:08:46.040In the case of IBM, they also ran their name on every punch card.
00:08:51.980It was Deutsche Hallereth, Maschine Gesellschaft, which means the German punch card agency.
00:08:59.340They home, they home, they home, they ran a copyright on every matter.
00:09:05.160And when anyone else tried to print a punch card in Nazi Germany, occupied France, any of the places where its machines were used, IBM actually sued them during World War Two, during the Holocaust for copyright infringement, infringement and or trademark infringement.
00:09:24.760When we talk about companies that were involved, IBM was, and I've said this to you so many times, the things that Hitler was dreaming of doing, the things that Hitler wanted to do of kill every Jew on the planet, he would, he couldn't do it because he didn't have the technology of today.
00:09:49.760He would have celebrated the technology that that we have now.
00:09:53.620It would have made his work really a job done quickly.
00:09:58.120But IBM, as you have said, and I think you got a lot of heat for it, that, you know, high tech didn't start in Silicon Valley.
00:10:24.820There would have always been a Holocaust of some proportion, even without the IBM.
00:10:30.720And that's and that's because thousands of Jews were being mowed down bullet by bullet in the ravines and gullies and forest clearings of Eastern Europe by the Einsatzgruppen along with their local militias.
00:10:45.120We should always remember that local militias were complicit in all in all in all of these murders.
00:11:33.900And the first thing Hitler said is, I'd like to know how many Jews there are in Germany, because some of these Jews were wearing the fur hats, the curls and could clearly be identified.
00:11:48.180Others look like regular business people were just going to synagogue and temple.
00:11:52.900And a large number of them were already converted to Lutheranism and Catholicism and other forms of Christianity.
00:12:02.340But according to the Carnegie Institution and the Rockefeller Foundation, something you know well from your studies in eugenics, they were racially Jews going back in their ancestry.
00:12:15.880Because the famous motto, race and blood, that the Nazis sloganized actually came from the president of Stanford University 30 years before in his book, Blood of a Nation.
00:12:33.580So Hitler says, I'd like to know exactly how many Jews there are.
00:12:42.620They actually hired thousands of individuals to go door to door in Nazi Germany and ask a series of census questions.
00:12:56.660And then they had all those written forms sent into a single giant warehouse in Alexanderplatz in Berlin.
00:13:06.780And then day and night, they were punched in to these punch card forms and machines.
00:13:13.780In one column, they would ask, what is your religion?
00:13:17.900You could either be a Muslim, a Christian, a Jew, a Lutheran.
00:13:22.700In a second column, what is your nationality?
00:13:25.780And you could either be German, you could be Polish, you Ukrainian.
00:13:29.740In another column, they would ask, what is your mother tongue?
00:13:33.660You could say, my mother tongue is German, it's Croatian, it's Yiddish, it's Polish.
00:13:40.340In yet another column, what is your profession?
00:13:43.200I'm a bricklayer, I'm an auto mechanic, I'm a doctor, I'm a lawyer.
00:13:47.960And finally, the question, what is your location?
00:13:50.300And then, at the rate of 64,000 cards per hour, instantly, the Nazis finally learned exactly how many Jews of Polish extraction were practicing law in Berlin.
00:14:10.080I don't want to move off this step first.
00:14:11.800We've always done, America has in its constitution a census, and it's become very controversial to, you know, to put race and everything else on this, and we're getting it longer and longer and longer, and more and more information.
00:14:29.400And a lot of people are pushing back because they just inherently feel, this isn't good.
00:14:34.800It really is the first time we tracked racial bloodlines in a census, was Nazi Germany?
00:14:46.800Religion was always used as a measure of census.
00:14:50.920The question is, how was the information used?
00:14:54.060Remember, there have been censuses going back all the way to Moses.
00:14:59.500But in this case, the census was weaponized.
00:15:02.060In a similar fashion, we weaponized the census data from the Japanese in the 1940s when we had them picked up.
00:15:52.840And one of the things my wife has been saying when I'm hungry or something a couple of years ago, she would say, why don't you just have a Bilt Bar?
00:17:22.040And depending upon where those holes were punched, you could actually, once it was read through a high-speed reader, identify any information about a person, a place, or a process.
00:17:36.500Before that time, you could count on your hands, but there's a raw number.
00:17:43.320With this information that came out of these punch cards, these cross tabulations, you could not only count how many people were in the room, how many were blonde, how many were brown, how many had jobs, how many were Jews, how many were Aryans.
00:18:03.120And so this, not Silicon Valley, is the birthplace of the information age.
00:18:10.360It was Berlin in 1933 that was the birthplace of the information age.
00:18:16.200And what does that mean, the information age?
00:18:19.580It means the individualization of statistics.
00:18:24.020Not only could you count, but you could know something about the people you counted.
00:18:33.760Back in 2007, 6, 7, I talked to somebody who was high up in Department of Homeland Security.
00:18:43.020And he was telling me about this new technology that they were employing to track terrorists.
00:18:48.640And he said, you know, we identify the terrorists and then we monitor them.
00:18:54.280And he said, we can monitor everything.
00:18:56.060And he said, for instance, if we have a terrorist that we know is living someplace, if his water usage goes down, he said, we then know that he's gone someplace.
00:19:09.720He's not in there, even though we might have a stakeout.
00:19:12.660If his water usage, he's not flushing the toilets, he's not taking a shower.
00:19:43.800There is literally no place to hide anymore on Earth.
00:19:49.380If a government takes the technology that Hitler dreamt about and employs that to identify, count, separate, isolate and round up.
00:20:01.520And actually, it's going to be even worse than you just presaged be because of a topic you probably know about RFID.
00:20:14.580And soon they'll be measuring the garbage that we throw out the cans in our trash in our trash to see what our usage is.
00:20:25.460And that's literally just right around the corner.
00:20:28.320Well, they say, and I read this five years ago or so, that just by tracking people through their supermarket, hey, do you have a super saver card?
00:20:40.040And they can tell which clients or which supermarket shoppers are conservative, which are liberal, which are Jews, which are Christians, just by the foods we buy and the products we buy.
00:20:55.360We can actually tell, I think it was at the time, 80 percent accuracy on political backgrounds because of the products we buy, which is insane.
00:21:07.520But to to to know that we are being analyzed and grouped at all times is is a little disturbing.
00:21:16.900I believe there was a group of behavioral scientists that they are working with the Obama campaign when Obama won twice.
00:21:29.120And they were analyzing and data mining that in the bad information.
00:21:35.460That's what you just said is the reason I don't get those super saver cards, those loyalty cards.
00:21:42.040In fact, our pharmaceuticals are being reported in a similar fashion.
00:21:47.120And there is now a grocery chain being operated by Amazon where no money is required.
00:22:49.040Well, the first step was identification, as you say.
00:22:52.340The second step was it was exclusion or isolation.
00:22:56.160And they took all the names that they had gathered of Jews and they juxtaposed them against the bar association, the faculty roles, the medical association, the journalist association.
00:23:09.760And all those people were immediately fired.
00:23:16.000And so now the Jews were excluded from society in the place of the Jews were loyal Nazis, commissars and others were were put into their position.
00:23:44.760And I and I worry about this because I see we're now going through a purge in this country, similar to the purge that we've seen elsewhere and in Nazi Germany.
00:23:58.160Edwin, somebody just lost their job yesterday from Disney.
00:24:05.660Big star on a very big hit show and lost her job because she tweeted out, you have to understand the Nazis first turned neighbor against neighbor.
00:24:21.980They convinced the German people that the Jews were bad.
00:24:26.560And that's how you that's how you originally started to do.
00:24:30.760You have to teach people that this group is bad and needs to be isolated.
00:24:37.280And she said, isn't this the same thing we're doing right now?
00:24:41.000And she was fired for saying that by Disney.
00:24:49.440There's an extra step to what you just said.
00:24:51.600It's not only trying to convince people through propaganda in the case of Goebbels, in the case of things we're seeing today, that entire segment of the society is bad, but then punishing those who would speak out against it.
00:25:08.520So, for instance, I know, once again, I refer to your eugenic background, since I know that you've studied that topic.
00:25:20.080Eugenics was pseudoscience amongst doctors.
00:25:26.600The Jews were said to be carrying a contamination.
00:25:29.520There was the whole idea that Jews were medically unfit.
00:25:36.800And so, can you imagine if anyone would resist that in Nazi Germany?
00:25:42.360And it was Twitter and Facebook today that we have.
00:25:46.720But back then, their information standing up for Jews or any persecuted minority would be considered medical misinformation.
00:25:59.520Well, I know that, I know that, I don't know when it started, but it got so bad that if you even went to the window, if you heard a, you know, skirmish outside, your neighbors were being, you know, escorted into a truck forcibly.
00:26:16.480If you even came to the window and looked outside, you could receive exactly the same punishment.
00:26:22.340So, they eventually scared everyone into compliance.
00:26:26.440You wouldn't speak out against it and you, you were encouraged to participate.
00:26:32.360But if you even recognized it, you would receive the same fate.
00:26:38.000But people missed the step that, you know, one of the best police forces in Poland actually became one of the most brutal in killing the Jews out in the woods and hunting them down and burning whole villages with people in, you know, trapped in their houses.
00:26:56.960They were ordinary men at one point, but the propaganda and the pressure and the fear turns people into monsters.
00:27:07.400It was said during the Stalin era, during the purge there, how do you create terror, not only by punishing the guilty, but by punishing the innocent.
00:27:21.780And what you said to me is very important about these militias in the East, not just Poland, in Ukraine and Lithuania and other Eastern countries.
00:27:35.620Those militias were doing most of the actual killings in those ditches.
00:27:43.220There were some mindsets grouping guys, but it was their allies in these militias who were doing a great deal of the actual shooting.
00:27:52.760So, I'm sure you know and you'd be able to correct me.
00:27:55.480I think the book is called Ordinary Men.
00:28:00.180Reading that book, I've, I've, I've, I've for a long time have said every police officer, everybody in charge of anything needs to read this book to mentally know where you're going to stand if things ever would go wrong.
00:28:14.040I've been mocked about that, but it, it is, it is truly amazing how the Germans didn't have to do very much to get,
00:28:44.600And you and I were discussing this and I said, we no longer need that level of censorship where the man is standing at the next desk waiting to see your typed up copy.
00:28:59.100And so we have commissars, if you will, functioning through mass media today.
00:29:06.780And I really see a very dark path ahead.
00:29:10.460And I understand that you, you have spotlighted this in the social credit system in China.
00:29:16.620So, so, so Edwin, I'm trying to find out because if I had this conversation with anyone else, I mean, the heat that will come on me for this conversation with you in a long form format is going to be a phenomenal or nothing.
00:29:35.060It won't be in between, it won't be in between, it will be nothing.
00:29:38.480Listen, listen, no one is going to come at you because of this conversation.
00:29:44.260If anybody has a question, you have my address.
00:29:47.500Well, one reason why I come to you with these things is because you know it inside and out.
00:29:59.920You are the world's leading authority on, on this.
00:30:03.700And there seems to be this trouble of connecting the past with today.
00:30:11.740And I don't understand because the, if we really mean never forget, we don't mean don't forget the end.
00:30:25.480IBM was, was enabling, but they were still under the direction of the German government.
00:30:33.700They still hired them and under the direction of the German government.
00:30:36.440In today's world, I think people have a hard time connecting things because the government isn't saying ban them.
00:30:44.980It's these private corporations and gee, don't they have a, don't they have a right to do and run their business the way they want.
00:30:53.080But it, it's, it's all leading us the same place.
00:30:57.360Can you, can you, for anybody who says that's, that's not going to happen here.
00:31:04.200Can you help draw these lines together on, we're just on step two, identifying and then isolating people?
00:31:11.680Because that's what is happening here.
00:31:13.420Well, if I could say, um, uh, just to append what you said, it wasn't so much that the Nazis, uh, uh, were giving the orders to, um, uh, to IBM in, uh, Germany or new, or new, New York.
00:31:32.920I think what you meant to say was they were giving the purchase order.
00:31:39.060The, the decisions, the aggressive pursuit of this line of business, the customization of, uh, all of these punch cards and machines, and everyone was customized for every single application.
00:31:56.300All of this was micromanaged by one man, Thomas J. Watson, senior.
00:32:02.120He was a narcissistic, um, uh, and sociopathic criminal.
00:32:09.660He was, um, a convicted extortionist before he ever got to IBM.
00:32:14.860He was convicted of extortion in the national, the famous national cash register case.
00:32:20.560He didn't go to prison because of an evidence technicality.
00:32:25.140And they, and, uh, the people who set up the IBM said, that's the man that we want to, to run our company.
00:32:33.840And Watson received a share of all the business with the third Reich.
00:33:09.340They, um, were cutthroat against any competition.
00:33:12.560They sued for trademark infringement during World War II.
00:33:16.920And even when the Nazis, uh, even when America entered the war in 1941, uh, in, uh, December, because Germany declared war on the United States after Pearl Harbor, uh, when, when, when, when the Nazis placed the, uh, company, uh, under their, uh, custodial, uh, control.
00:33:41.940Has an enemy company, uh, all the same, uh, managers were left in place.
00:33:47.880They were all working with IBM through intermediaries, uh, in Portugal, Switzerland, Sweden, um, uh, Vichy France, um, IBM senior executives, including their top lawyer were in Berlin in 1942 executing, uh, um, uh, uh, uh, secret.
00:34:11.940To move the, uh, the, the, the, the equipment around this was IBM making a conscious decision to go after this line of business.
00:34:23.780I read a lot, um, and, uh, I, I, I, I much prefer now, uh, listening to podcasts, um, and listening to books on tape, uh, you use audible all the time.
00:34:40.180And, uh, a lot of those times I am awake and my wife is dead asleep next to me and I hate Apple, um, ear pods cause they just, they, they're so uncomfortable.
00:34:53.280Let me tell you about Raycon Raycon come in a range of stylus colors, if that's what you need, but the comfort, the in-ear fit, um, is really, really good noise isolating.
00:35:06.840And they come with really soft pads that you can change out for your size ear.
00:35:12.000They perform really, really well water, sweat resistant construction, Bluetooth that pairs quickly, seamlessly.
00:35:42.860Well, I, I know that you have exposed and it is, it's one thing to think about that and to think that Watson had dinner with his client, Adolf Hitler.
00:35:55.000And, and, and, and as horrid as that is, you have exposed that they actually went and repaired the machines.
00:36:06.500If there was a problem, they'd sent out an IBM repairman to the concentration camps.
00:36:12.500Well, all of these machines were clipty clothed and they had to be repaired and maintained once every two weeks.
00:36:24.040And that was done on site by an IBM repairman.
00:36:28.620And whether that was in downtown Frankfurt or in Auschwitz three, where they had an IBM facility, which was right near the sports plots and not far from my, from IG Farben.
00:36:45.260And of course these machines could have, um, uh, never been useful without punch cards.
00:36:54.000It would be like, um, uh, like rifles without bullets because each punch card could only be used once.
00:37:02.720And I just did some calculations about five minutes before I came on this show, just one plant, just one plant in Germany.
00:37:15.260Produced just during the war years alone, 2.3 billion punch cards for the Nazi use.
00:37:29.160That is just during the wartime years to assist the Nazis in their war effort.
00:37:35.220If that had been stopped, if the spare parts had been stopped, these spare parts were, uh, machine tooled with extreme precision, then these machines would have, um, broken down.
00:37:48.100If I, because wait, wait, wait, wait, I just want to make sense, uh, make sure I understand this because you have gotten in trouble before 20 years ago.
00:37:55.560And then they retracted all this, but they said, oh, he's engaged in hyperbole because, um, he says just about every bullet was tracked by IBM.
00:38:03.900What you're saying here is the evidence of it, that they would track all the machines, all of the bullets, all of the transports of everything, not just people.
00:38:13.980Um, we know that the Germans were meticulous record keepers, but IBM was their clerk, if you will.
00:38:22.200And so if, if they didn't have IBM, if they weren't using that system, these machines in the war machine would have broken down.
00:38:36.840And so, and I know that there's a lot of emphasis on all the, the, um, uh, on these few, uh, negative reviews and criticism that I got, but you must understand virtually an entire world supported me.
00:38:55.520Um, Jewish organizations within most of the media, uh, colleges, Edwin, I, I don't, I didn't mean to, I didn't mean to imply otherwise.
00:39:06.480You are the world's leading scholar on how all of this happens.
00:39:12.080So, uh, I, I'm just bringing it up because, um, I wanted to understand that they couldn't make these things.
00:39:20.640They couldn't have shipped them or things would have broken down because when there was a repair needed, when there was a scheduled repair, it was all done through the punch card system.
00:40:34.760What's the difference between, uh, between what was happening, uh, in Germany when IBM was starting and they were working and they were rounding people up and identifying what's the difference between them and companies like Facebook or Google that are working currently with the Chinese to track, identify and help scoop up people, the Uyghurs and put them into camps.
00:41:00.240We have yet to investigate, uh, exactly what the role of American high tech is in the genocide now being committed against the Uyghurs.
00:41:12.840This much we know the social credit system, the Skynet system, the face rec system, the system, which you and I both know, which needs to be, uh, further investigated.
00:41:25.920And, and, and I'm actually turning my attention to the Uyghurs right now.
00:42:47.980So isn't this, I mean, again, help me and correct me where I'm wrong, but isn't this already in place here?
00:42:57.680And I'm not saying it's an organized practice, but you can't go into a bank and pull more than $5,000 out at a time without being reported on.
00:43:09.780If some companies like MasterCard have decided they're not going to do financial services for this company or this company or this company.
00:43:19.440And there is talk that if we don't turn this around, if we don't stop this, you're going to see financial services turn and exclude people in certain categories.
00:43:37.640So in other words, if you're dubbed a violent extremist, you have no access to any financial institution.
00:43:45.400If the ones that have already been done, gun manufacturers, if you are selling or buying a gun in New York, the governor has already said there's going to be more inspections and more inspectors at your bank every year.
00:44:05.140Because we think something's hinky with the gun manufacturers and some of these financial institutions have said we're not going to provide any services for them.
00:44:14.780There are two sides on either end of this corridor that you've discussed now.
00:44:24.900What the Nazis were doing was confiscation.
00:44:56.560Now, whether we do have, what do we call that, that confiscation that is going on?
00:45:02.240It was started in the 1980s and it's got out of control in some cities where they could just, you're pulled over and you've got cash in the glove box.
00:45:10.600They can just, the police can take it and have in some places.
00:45:15.120We know of a guy in Virginia that had a store.
00:45:18.520They came in, took the cash, took everything and said, we think this is illegal drug money.
00:45:26.240They didn't even, he didn't even go to court, never got his money back, lost everything.
00:45:29.840So there are some cases, but it's not, it's not a government policy.
00:45:34.360I don't know anything about those cases, but to more direct your inquiry, if you are found to be in violation and then fined and then, or forced to pay some extra fee, then to enforce that, then your assets can be confiscated.
00:46:00.180And so what we need to watch now is whether we're going to see special taxation, whether we're going to see special asset seizures, whether we're going to see a differential in taxing procedures from one neighborhood to the next because of one status.
00:46:22.300We're a long distance away from, from that, but in the 21st century, being a long distance away happens tomorrow, happens tomorrow at the speed of light.
00:46:36.000Um, all right. So the next one is put them in ghettos and this has caused a big headache, uh, for me in the press.
00:46:43.460Cause I quoted you and everybody said, Glenn Beck is crazy.
00:46:48.160Listen to what he's saying. And then when I pointed out, I'm quoting Edwin black, uh, all of a sudden everybody shut up.
00:46:55.940Uh, but we've talked about, uh, but we've talked about the literal ghetto and how today there is a digitized ghetto that if Facebook, yeah, if, if Facebook and Google and everybody else wants to cut you off and not provide any services for you, it does your voice even matter anymore?
00:47:16.180Or are you behind a digital wall? Explain, you know, it's, it's funny. I looked at one of the articles, uh, in the Jewish media that, uh, um, dealt with your being attacked for using the digital ghetto.
00:47:31.960And, uh, I checked and they were one of the newspapers that originally ran my story in 28 to 18 about a digital ghetto.
00:47:40.860So, uh, as is now, as is now, uh, I won't mention this particular LAP. So, um, uh, as is well known now, uh, I was, um, making a, um, uh, a keynote address at, uh, uh, Holocaust day observance in the Detroit, uh, Rotunda state Capitol, the governor's, uh, commemoration.
00:48:04.780And at that time I introduced the concept of what I called the algorithm ghetto or the digital ghetto.
00:48:11.600And that is where you'll be, uh, uh, screaming from the rooftop and no one will hear you because you've been excluded by the Googles, the Facebooks, and the Twitters.
00:48:24.440We've now, um, as a result of the server disconnects, we now see that you will not only be not heard from your rooftop, your rooftop will be taken away.
00:48:37.020And I think that this is an extremely, uh, significant move.
00:48:42.620And as, uh, Apple and, uh, Google, as I told you before, uh, make, um, uh, these types of decisions, Apple could say, well, you're using our phone.
00:48:54.820We're going to disconnect that Google could say, Edwin's using an, an Android phone.
00:49:07.460And for many years, uh, uh, I, and I'm sure you have to have been working on the concept of the cashless society and at the speed by which your credit card can be blocked, they can block you in a cashless society from even buying bread.
00:49:25.200And now that I see that we're approaching, uh, the threshold of a global cryptocurrency and with the potential that world currencies may fall, we have another, uh, horizon to, to worry about.
00:49:43.700How, uh, we have more to talk about, but I, I, I go back and forth in my head, you know, cause it doesn't have to go just because you're walking down a road doesn't mean you're not going to turn a different corner or turn around.
00:50:01.540It doesn't, because you're saying we're headed towards this doesn't mean we arrive there.
00:50:19.220So, I mean, we've been talking about this forever and, you know, I keep saying, I'll stop saying these things when I see the star field start to roll in the opposite direction.
00:50:29.960But right now we keep going the same way and it is getting, it was one thing to talk about it in theory.
00:50:41.560It's another to be deep down this road where decisions that are critical are going to be made soon.
00:50:51.720And it could mean the difference between nightmares or utopia.
00:50:58.600How do you, how do you live with the, the knowledge that you have and the, the things that you see that are possible on the horizon?
00:51:49.600We won't even have an ability to determine how bad we were in the, in the past.
00:51:57.540And I've often worried about the fact that people's collective knowledge is usually only goes back to last Thursday.
00:52:05.320It's people like you and people like me who spend our years looking at precedent, what has happened before.
00:52:13.580So for me, the torment of society is full-time employment.
00:52:19.780The nature of how bad it can be is a day and night, 24 hour a day challenge.
00:52:31.480And so for the past 50 years, for the past half century, and all of my books and all my human rights writing and all of my corporate investigations, I've tried to lay out what has happened, how visible it was, how noisy it was, so that people could not repeat the same mistake over and over again.
00:52:55.560And I fear now that we are once again making the same mistake.
00:53:01.740And I'm going to fault one major sector of our society.
00:54:43.080And the fourth step out of six is the ghettoization.
00:54:47.040One day, all the Jews who have been identified, excluded, isolated, are instructed to move across town, uh, eight, uh, into these, uh, World War I slums, uh, which will become ghettos.
00:55:04.020It's eight families to, uh, to a small apartment.
00:58:03.660And of course there were concentration camps in, uh, uh, the Boer war and, uh, and Cuba in 1938, as we talked about once before, uh, governor Wilbur Cross, uh, um, uh, launched a plan with the Carnegie institution to go door to door.
00:58:24.7601938 in the United States door to door and take a, a, a eugenic census of every citizen.
00:58:32.760And they started this in a place called Rocky Hill, Connecticut door to door.
00:58:37.580And if people were found to be unfit, they were, uh, African American, they were white people with brown hair, the Appalachians, if they were mixed blood, if they were, um, uh, dark skinned, they were deemed to, to, to, to, to be, uh,
00:58:54.760um, uh, um, unfit, they would all be rounded up, their assets would be taken and they would be shipped to camps in the Ozarks.
00:59:04.620And the further secret protocols of that plan, which exists only in hand, in handwriting in one or two places, and I have a copy of it, was that those camps in the Ozarks would ultimately become euthanasia camps.
00:59:22.020And they were already putting together the youth, the euthanasia, uh, uh, precedents and protocols.
01:00:35.840He was just big, powerful, and important.
01:00:38.700And the average person didn't know what was going on.
01:00:43.780Well, uh, the testing you're referring to is the alpha test and the beta test, which were given to the general population in advance, uh, or limited sections of the population to develop an army for world war one.
01:00:59.060The term you use, imbecile, idiot, moron, those were not insults as they are today.
01:01:10.220Those were the terms that the psychology profession and the education profession used to designate, um, lower forms of intelligence.
01:01:20.540Once they branded you as an idiot, a moron, an imbecile on the scientific scale, using those particular terms, then, um, they said that you were good for cannon fodder, meaning you were sent out across the front line.
01:01:35.180You were sent to the front line and to run across the minefields and, uh, let them explode.
01:01:40.940So, and by the way, that testing ultimately became the IQ test and later it became the SAT test.
01:01:56.140First, they, first they formed their conclusions and then they fabricated the evidence and the, and the testing to support their illicit and immoral, uh, conclusions about people.
01:02:09.900People who had great wisdom, uh, such as, uh, the, uh, uh, the Sicilians, uh, who came to Ellis Island and knew all, all the great operas of the world, but they didn't know what music was on Broadway.
01:02:25.780So they'd ask them Broadway questions.
01:02:27.920Um, the Jews from Eastern Europe who had all the wisdom of the Talmud and the Torah, they would ask them questions about sports, squash, racquetball.
01:02:37.860They wouldn't know that they would ask, uh, Bible thumpers about the best-selling, um, uh, cigarettes, uh, cigarette ads in the Saturday evening post.
01:02:48.320So these were trick questions designed to, um, uh, designed to cast people in a, um, uh, in a role and in a box where they could be disposed of.
01:06:04.080Explain black stork and, and, uh, all right.
01:06:07.700Uh, and then I'm sure we'll get, uh, yeah, we'll get to the, yeah, I'm sorry.
01:06:12.08056, uh, the black stork in my book, banking, uh, excuse me, war against the week.
01:06:19.000Um, there was a surgeon in Chicago and he was a eugenicist and there was a, a, a baby that was born with a birth defect.
01:06:33.300He thought this baby should, did not have the right to live.
01:06:38.000And so he refused to give the baby any medical attention, any, uh, nutrition, and just allowed it to die against, uh, the, um, fervent, uh, uh, shrieks of his parents.
01:06:54.780This guy was celebrated and they even made a Hollywood film about it called the black stork, where if you really love your baby, um, and he's, uh, you'll kill him.
01:07:07.980Um, and relieve him of the duty, uh, excuse me, of the curse of living on this earth.
01:07:14.960It was actually the same thing that drove Margaret Sanger and, uh, planned parenthood because she referred to the unfit as a human weeds.
01:07:25.040And she loved humanity so much that, uh, she wanted, uh, to save it by eliminating two thirds of the people on planet earth.
01:07:35.760And we need to really understand that some of this comes from a place of hate and some of this comes from a place of monstrous Frankenstein love and trying to make a better place, but trying to make a better place in your own image is attempting to steal the show from God.
01:07:59.580Well, as we go back to the Holocaust in the six, uh, stages, I think that's where people get confused.
01:08:17.680Um, and somebody comes in and puts on a very good show and says, Hey, we're going to recapture the glory.
01:08:24.140And so a lot of people went for love of country.
01:08:27.220Um, but the most important thing was the hatred that was compelling, um, uh, Hitler to move on.
01:08:37.400The, just the, and many of his, in his upper circles, um, that, uh, made the Holocaust, his, his insane writings in Mein Kampf actually come, uh, come true.
01:08:50.540We are now ghettos, deport them and exterminate.
01:09:01.080Their money and assets have been confiscated.
01:09:03.620They've now been confined in these ghettos.
01:09:05.580The fifth move is deportation, meaning throw them into trains and send them to concentration camps.
01:09:15.180And here, once again, uh, uh, all the trains in Germany and Europe, or most of Europe were running on IBM punch cards.
01:09:23.340The railroad business was the single largest sector for IBM's, uh, business over there.
01:09:30.280Uh, you said at the start of this show that they couldn't track a box of bullets or, uh, a shipment.
01:09:37.100They couldn't track a box car in under two weeks without an IBM, uh, uh, system tracking it.
01:09:44.840Not only was I able to, uh, to discover and, um, exploit those documents, I was even able to locate, uh, uh, one of the men in Krakow who was at the depot working with the IBM subsidiary, uh, to send these trains back and forth to Auschwitz.
01:10:06.320And, uh, and, and, and I questioned him and he gave me information on exactly what IBM did.
01:10:13.320And so deportation, um, by this, by this IBM tracking, just the right number of Jews would be put into the right number of boxcars.
01:10:24.520They would be sent over a one to two day, um, uh, journey like my mother was, and, um, they would arrive at the concentration camp and within 40 minutes, generally speaking, unless there was a problem on the track, there was smoke, they were dead.
01:10:43.460And this type of metering is what the IBM traffic management did.
01:10:51.280Remember, millions of people went in and out of thousands of IB, uh, of Nazi concentration camps and sub camps.
01:11:03.100But the one day capacity of all the camps put together was 235,000.
01:11:08.820And so the IBM system kept track of the populations, how many could be used to work, how many could be, um, uh, how many, uh, had to be fed.
01:11:22.100And, um, uh, all this information was, uh, delivered once a week by motorcycle to the, uh, IBM, um, tracking center called, uh, Dietzwei.
01:11:35.440It was the SS department D2 in the T-shaped building at Aranienberg.
01:11:41.020At least 24 machines calculated this stuff out.
01:11:44.640And so the Nazis were able to keep track of every camp and sub camp through this deportation method.
01:11:53.120And then the sixth realm is actual extermination.
01:11:57.480There was an IBM customer site and every concentration camp, the name, some had machines, some had sorting systems.
01:12:06.420Some had just card identification systems in, um, in Dachau, for example, it was a two-story concrete blockhouse right across from the main gate in Mauthausen.
01:12:19.580It was across from the parade grounds in, um, in Buchenwald.
01:12:25.620It was, uh, not far from one of the mess halls in, uh, Auschwitz.
01:12:31.320It was, it was in Auschwitz III, um, near the sports field.
01:12:34.840And, um, there was, the name of this IBM customer site was the Hollerith Uptalung.
01:13:43.980I'm a tradesman and match those up against the slave labor needs, work them to death.
01:13:51.840And at the right time, the Jews are coded eight and gas chamber is coded six.
01:13:58.760Did we, did the, did the, did the government know about the connection with IBM and why didn't we put a Raul Wallenberg, I know you know who he is.
01:14:14.040Why didn't we ask for a Raul Wallenberg to go in, in as IBM and just throw some wrenches in the machine?
01:14:39.480And every time Watson went, went to Germany, which was common, he would send a note to the White House and say,
01:14:46.480I just want you to know I'm going to Germany and wish me luck or give me congratulations.
01:14:51.220Second, Watson went to Germany in 1937 and got a special award from Hitler, which was invented for him, the German Eagle with Cross for, quote, service by a foreigner rendered to the Third Reich.
01:15:10.240And it was said to be the biggest banquet in the history of Berlin.
01:15:16.600It was miles and miles of, of, of, of festivities.
01:15:21.520He led the entire U.S. Chamber of Commerce to go there to try to convince them to keep working with, with the Nazis.
01:15:30.280So we knew at all times, in fact, when, when we entered the war and when we made it illicit to communicate with Nazi Germany, the FBI was investigating Watson and IBM for working with the Nazis, for moving Nazi spies around here and there.
01:15:52.080Tell me, tell me, tell me, tell me the end of his story.
01:15:54.560Please tell me there's a happy ending where he's in prison or he is, at least he doesn't leave this earth with accolades.
01:17:23.340Sure, because if they committed crimes while, uh, if these, uh, uh, Nazi collaborators were, um, juveniles or under the age of 21, when they committed their crimes under certain laws and, and procedures, that is where they must be tried.
01:17:40.780So, but tell me, but tell me, tell me this, cause I have a real hard time, uh, with this cause I'm seeing what's happening to our youth right now.
01:17:49.280And what's happening to our youth right now is we're being split.
01:17:53.840There are those who believe, uh, in one ideology and others that believe in, you know, the constitution.
01:18:01.500And, uh, there is a real war in our children's minds and schools and with media.
01:18:09.120If you're 18 years old and you bought into this stuff, couldn't you make the case that they didn't, I mean, that's all they knew was that kind of world.
01:18:25.500And if they were surrounded by people that were saying, no, that's all good.
01:18:49.660Um, uh, so not only from the moment they were born, but they grabbed them early, um, in their, um, uh, in their teenage years,
01:18:59.740in their, uh, in their preteen years, I mean, turn them against their own family, their parents turned them against their own family.
01:19:07.120But under the war crimes, under the crimes against humanity that you have spoken of, there is a sharp line between just hating and being misinformed and being biased and actually pulling the trigger.
01:19:26.300However, it's important to understand that war crimes are not only against those who pulled the trigger, but those who instructed or made possible that the trigger be pulled.
01:19:38.260And for this reason, the genocide treaty says that the people who will be guilty of genocide are not only those who, um, um, who commit the acts of genocide, but who are, quote, complicit in genocide.
01:19:54.080And one of the subsections clearly states whether they are public officials or private individuals.
01:20:01.940And for this reason, we see, uh, not only mass murderers and camp personnel being tried for war crimes.
01:20:09.740We see journalists, we see journalists, we see the people who published the Sturmer, we see radio broadcasters, diplomats, scientists, doctors, bankers, an entire slew of non, uh, military men were, uh, placed in various of the war crimes trials, um, to show, um, uh, and to punish exactly what was done.
01:20:36.320So, um, uh, the bias, uh, if it was kept internal was insufficient to qualify for prosecution.
01:20:44.600But once people converted that into becoming, uh, concentration camp guards, ordering, um, destruction, encouraging, uh, genocide, such as Stryker, the, uh, publisher of the Sturmer, such as these diplomats.
01:21:03.940Once that was done, yes, then they qualified.
01:21:07.440And so those people are being tried today when we find them.
01:21:13.120So let me go back to the list and let's wrap this up with this.
01:21:36.120And where are we on the, shouldn't we have everybody have this kind of list in front of them and going, uh, oh, we're getting close to that one.
01:22:28.220But people have been, uh, and are being excluded and there are major efforts led by a number of people in the media to continue this revenge campaign against half the country.
01:22:42.160So people are being excluded in the process of being excluded.
01:22:47.540We don't need to, uh, seize their bank accounts because, uh, their, um, their Facebook accounts, their shopping accounts, their bank accounts are being terminated with the flick of the switch.
01:23:03.360So the question is what happens now, as I said to you, we're a long, long way from the horrors that IBM allowed the Nazis to inflict in the 1930s and forties.
01:23:18.160We are a long, long way away from that.
01:23:23.920And so what we need to do is look forward at where we are going, look backward from where we have come and ask ourselves, is it not time to take a fork in the road?
01:23:38.260Edwin Black, it's an honor to know you.