Glenn Beck Reacts to Passing of Pope Francis | Guest: Daniel Kokotajlo | 4⧸21⧸25
Episode Stats
Length
2 hours and 8 minutes
Words per Minute
160.76566
Hate Speech Sentences
118
Summary
On this episode of the Glenn Beck Program, Glenn talks about the Pope s passing, the Trump administration, and how to deal with pain. Glenn also talks about how to handle pain, and why you should be in charge of your own destiny.
Transcript
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ammo squared.com all right it's a freak hang on we're from washington dc we'll tell you what's going
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on in the world in just a second hello america you know we've been fighting every single day we push
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the fusion of entertainment and enlightenment this is the glenn beck program
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hello america from our nation's capital washington dc it is the glenn beck program
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uh why am i here i'll tell you about that coming up also we want to talk i really i have a few things
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to say about uh all of this back and forth on donald trump being uh again as dangerous as hitler
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because he's sending people out he's he's liquidating people he's what he is going to do
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every time he takes an illegal immigrant out he is closer to taking out an african-american a citizen
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are you even listening to yourself i'm going to give you the real facts that you can share with
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your friends coming up uh later on in the program uh i also want to talk about this nonsense back and
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forth that platforms one way or another should not voice opinions now i guess our side is saying that
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we shouldn't we shouldn't allow some people to be heard excuse me no i think everybody has this
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upside down and inside out and i'll explain that coming up also the pope died uh while you were
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asleep we'll have the latest on that and what it all means in 60 seconds first let me tell you about
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four relief relieffactor.com all right so yesterday uh for easter by the way happy easter stew happy
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easter good day after a day after easter yes 364 days till the next one thank you very much wow how do
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you do that and you are you a mathematician no uh jd vance uh jd vance was with the pope uh on easter
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and then the pope dies that's all i'm gonna say i'm just gonna leave it there i'm just gonna you draw
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your own conclusions america um no he had a good conversation apparently with the pope uh and uh
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the pope died he was um very very sick in the hospital he had pneumonia so we're we're back to
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the we're back to the voting for a new pope now if i may let me just tell you a story that i don't think
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most in the media even understand and if they do they certainly won't touch it um but i was there
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uh back in 2013 i think rob what did we decide it was 12 or 13 something like that uh i was i was at
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the vatican i was supposed to meet with uh the pope i met instead with a bunch of the high advisors for
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the pope uh and it was pope benedict at the time and i just want to talk to you about what i learned
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there uh and what we need to understand uh on this last pope because there was a quiet coup inside of
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the walls of the vatican uh the first public victim of the deep state was not a president of the united
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states uh it was the pope wasn't a priest wasn't a whistleblower it was pope benedict benedict wasn't
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just a conservative although he was a staunch conservative he was absolutely immovable he was
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elected in 2005 he stood for everything the modern world wanted the church to abandon he was moral uh he
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had moral clarity he was a traditionalist and a spiritual authority and my first my first realization
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that uh pope francis was going to be none of these things is when the media was talking you know
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they kept doing the white smoke and the black smoke and they finally had i don't remember what it is the
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white or the black smoke and it came out and they knew they had a pope and so they were waiting and
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they were speculating everybody on cnn and abc they were all speculating who could it possibly be
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and they started to speculate and they would say it's probably this cardinal oh he's a real hardliner
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he's going to be really bad blah blah blah blah then they finally came up to this pope i don't
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remember what his his real name is but uh you know they they mentioned him and they said well we don't
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know much about him and within 10 minutes everybody on every network started talking about how great
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he was going to be he was practically jesus and then when he when he was named francis oh see he is jesus
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or saint francis take your pick and i remember looking at used to and saying oh boy we're in
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trouble they like him this guy's going to be a nightmare so you had you had uh benedict who would
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not compromise on life no surrender on marriage no applause for you know the modern world uh and the
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globalists hated him the media called him rigid progressive called him dangerous uh and the
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machine went to work behind closed doors because that machine is in every government and make no
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mistake the vatican is a government scandal after scandal uh corruption abuse all real problems yes
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but they were used to discredit this pope uh and to stabilize his papacy and he refused to bend and
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then suddenly in 2013 he resigns now i remember when this happened gang let's let's let's put this
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into what we now know okay we now know who replaced him we now have seen the deep state in governments
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all across the world okay we have seen people being voted for and the deep state didn't like them and
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so they say nope not him we've seen them throw people into jail okay so by 2013 he resigns and he's the
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first pope in 600 years to resign and it's because he was too frail he was too frail he was too tired
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biden wasn't but benedict was okay and yet he lived for nearly 10 years he lived he wrote he was speaking he was
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warning he stayed in the vatican inside the walls he stayed in the vatican he wore white white he he signed
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his name pope emeritus that's not retirement that's him not really resigning that's resistance that's
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what that was and into that vote void came pope francis okay immediately everything about the
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church changed there was global applause oh my gosh climate change sermons remember those though they
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were great doctrinal uh ambiguity to where the point where catholics were like wait a minute it what is
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he saying here suddenly the church is less about salvation more about sustainability and collective
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salvation less moral compass more moral relativism and it seemed as though the fix was in
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now even members of some press overseas were saying uh this was a coup
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apparently uh benedict left a box it's called a white box full of scandal files and it was not a gift
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to pope francis it was a warning he knew he saw it coming so it wasn't a resignation it was a removal
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from office a soft coup by the progressive faction inside the church who was eager to align
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rome with davos and make no mistake davos was there the un was there you know all the global priorities
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of the un and davos were there that have nothing to do with god but now the church was aligned with all
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of it i remember uh going uh as i said we were supposed to meet with the pope and i went i met with
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several cardinals i think the good cardinals and i saw stuff that i had never seen before um
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uh it was it was amazing i saw the church as political and as spiritual at the same time
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uh i'm a former catholic so i respect the catholic church i also you know i'm no dummy uh it is a
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political organization i think most churches can you know go that direction uh but especially one that's
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you know what 2 000 years old 1900 years old i think it could probably go awry from time to time
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uh and go political because that's what it that's what it was for a very long time and i remember
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seeing the guy who i think was in charge is jason out there see if jason can come in for a second
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there was a guy that jason was with me can you rob can you open up one of those mics do you know
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um jason remember when we were at the vatican you were in the room remember that big map room
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it was like we were in the godfather yeah okay i don't remember what that place was but it was
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you know like near the vatican right around the vatican and it was a place where they went and they
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held you know uh dignitaries and held functions there and it was amazing it was like a three-story
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room that we were in and they were the biggest maps of the world i've ever seen and all of the
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i mean it was incredible and it had to be 400 years old would you agree with that oh yeah okay so it's
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just steeped in quite honestly dan brown kind of totally dan right totally that and i had just gotten
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out of the archives the night but the day before and i don't even know how i got this invitation
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but i was i was given an invitation and even the guy who consulted the pope uh for doctrinal issues
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when we were i don't know a quarter of the way into the archives he was with me and i asked him a
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question and he said don't ask me ask him i've never been allowed in here and uh and the next day
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when we were getting a tour from the head of the vatican museum he said you'll never guess where they
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were yesterday and said you know they were in the the vatican archives and she he's she stopped she
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was the head of the museum she stopped and she looked at me and she's like tell me about it what
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was that like so like i don't know how we got in there but we we were asked to go in so we're
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experiencing all of this stuff and that night we were with i don't even remember who they were but
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they were the most christ-like you know cardinals and preachers or whatever they were um that i had
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had been with the whole time they were so kind you could just feel the goodness coming off of they
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were real servants of god um and we were all sitting around talking and you could tell everybody's
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guard in that group everybody's guard was up and all of a sudden and i'm not kidding you the room
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dropped 10 degrees and uh i happened to be facing looking at the door way across this huge room
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and here comes this guy i don't know if he was a cardinal he was wasn't he in charge of all of the
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the pope's schedule or something something like that yeah okay so he was he was the main guy that
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you know you had to get by if you were going to get to the pope and the room dropped it became cold
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and i said holy cow who is that guy and the whole the whole group of really nice guys turned around
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and looked at him and one of them turned back and went oh you can feel that and i said oh yeah just
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feel no offense i didn't know if they liked him or not i said no offense but he doesn't seem like a
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good guy and he was way across the room and they were like oh good sense on you oh no he's leading
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the opposition so he's the guy i think that was helping thwart benedict and he was on in the
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inside okay it's exactly the trump story would you agree yeah it felt like it it felt almost like a
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game of thrones yes in the vatican didn't it that's like the best and i it was the weirdest
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weirdest feeling yeah and it's exactly what we saw in 2016 i had never seen that before but it's
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exactly what we saw in 2016 it's what we're now seeing in the eu where the people with power are
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just taking people out the pattern here is really familiar because we've seen it in washington we've
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seen it in hollywood we've seen it in the media it's the replacement of the immovable
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with those who are more malleable the strong replaced by the inclusive the faithful with the
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fashionable that's what happened and this deep state doesn't just run in governments it runs in
00:17:36.820
everything it runs in institutions and when those institutions start to resist the world's direction
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they're infiltrated they're neutralized and they're repurposed and it is in everything
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it happened at the vatican i saw it and pope benedict was the warning shot that we all missed
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he was the first donald trump i believe now what happens next are we going to get somebody you know
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as the church is starting to grow again the catholic church is starting to grow and it's growing
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with generation z who are saying we want our traditions back we want marriage we want truth we want eternal
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truth as it's laid out in the gospels of jesus christ as it's growing will the church grow in that
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direction or has francis put such a cabal in there that you might get somebody who says that
00:18:42.760
but is do is it going to be yeah we just elected a new guy and he's doing exactly what the last guy
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did just the way it happens in our government and every other government on earth we'll see
00:18:57.040
it begins today all right more in just a second first let me tell you uh about the international
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fellowship of christians and jews israel is under attack still missile missile missile fire has
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resumed from terrorist groups dedicated to one thing the complete destruction of israel and the
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death of her people and you know people are cheering it on here in america it is crazy what's happening
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you put your kids to bed you don't worry if you're gonna have to grab them in the middle of the night
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because there's a missile flying i mean that doesn't we would never put up with this we would
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never put up with going to church and uh having to worry about somebody coming into our church and
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blowing our church up or shooting all of the members of the church we wouldn't do it it's real
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it's right now and it's happening in israel that's why the international fellowship of christians and
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you're not going to hear that opinion anywhere do you think still
00:20:37.540
interesting uh considering it happened very very recently it wasn't exactly the way i thought you're
00:20:44.900
going to come out but that's all right it's an interesting interesting start to the program as
00:20:49.780
usual i mean you know i i wish i don't wish anybody any harm obviously uh and you know he was the pope
00:20:57.460
uh and i have respect for the pope but i have no respect for the policies that he held i'm not catholic
00:21:03.820
so who am i to say it's you know i might as well be talking about women you know as astronauts i've never
00:21:11.320
been to the moon so uh what do i know i'm i'm not a catholic so i you know i don't mean to impose my
00:21:17.600
but it is my viewpoint um and what i witnessed there and uh it's really fascinating it's going
00:21:25.540
to be fascinating to watch uh you know yesterday i posted on x something that was happening in uh
00:21:32.940
where was that in uh ethiopia and i saw this thing that happened on easter eve uh in ethiopia and there
00:21:42.820
were there had to be a million people out in front of this giant cathedral and they were all holding
00:21:47.960
candles and and singing and it was amazing amazing what's going on in africa and all over the world
00:21:55.880
people are waking up again and it will be interesting to see what happens uh and who is
00:22:05.820
who is selected by those in charge and you know we've seen it before where i think there were like
00:22:12.620
two popes wasn't there two different popes that died right before in between uh pope john paul the
00:22:20.200
second because there was pope john paul the first and he lived for like 10 days and i think there was
00:22:25.440
another one that died right before that they went through this and it was kind of like god was like
00:22:29.400
now not him and then oh okay john paul so we'll see did you just swipe right on pope is that what
00:22:39.660
you were doing i did okay i just want to make sure i mean as god i think god was like swipe right now
00:22:45.920
yeah i people are fascinated by this whole thing too right what there was they had the the movie that
00:22:53.620
just came out right which where they were that was uh one of the best picture nominations uh you know
00:22:58.940
people are again i didn't see it i don't i i don't know i'm not you know as as you are i'm not
00:23:05.760
catholic i don't uh i'm not all that involved in the uh in the process other than just kind of watch
00:23:10.460
from afar but you're there the it's pretty amazing the wide range between benedict and francis is a
00:23:17.880
really interesting thing that the catholic church is going to make a big decision on here real soon and
00:23:23.000
that's going to be a fascinating thing to watch yeah because it's not just the future of the church but
00:23:27.980
it's so influential you know in our politics and and globally so yeah it's going to be an
00:23:33.620
interesting next few weeks will the will the church turn back around back towards tradition
00:23:39.960
and truth and the bible or is it going to keep going world economic glenn beck
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800-906-2440 american financing.net head over to blaze tv.com slash glenn subscribe get 30 bucks off
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blaze tv.com slash glenn welcome to the glenn back program we're glad you're here i uh i want to take
00:25:27.680
on something else that i don't know maybe i should just keep my big fat mouth shut um but because i think
00:25:34.540
this one's going to piss off everybody but it's the truth there was a story in the new york times
00:25:38.920
the podcaster asking you to side with history's villains he was in the new york times let me read
00:25:44.160
some of it daryl cooper is no scholar but legions of fans many on the right can't seem to resist what
00:25:51.240
he presents as hidden truths all of a sudden everyone was coming for daryl cooper there were
00:25:56.840
the newspaper columnists the historians the jewish groups repugnant says the chairman of yad vashem
00:26:01.700
israel's holocaust museum in a statement even the biden white house released a statement calling
00:26:06.600
him a holocaust denier who spreads nazi propaganda so it was for a time for mr cooper one of the most
00:26:12.320
popular podcasters in the country to do what he does best hit record in a special episode of his
00:26:18.480
history program martyr made mr cooper addressed the controversy which he had which had exploded out
00:26:24.060
of september second appearance on the tucker carlson show the podcast started by the former fox news
00:26:28.900
host at first mr cooper a gifted historic storyteller but not a trained historian defended
00:26:35.360
the claims he had made on mr carlson show one that winston churchill was the chief villain of the war
00:26:41.100
ridiculous not by implication adolf hitler uh the two uh and two that millions had died in nazi
00:26:49.040
controlled eastern europe because nazis had not adequately planned to feed them okay not true
00:26:55.340
uh he then said you know the story goes on to say then kind of retracted some of that stuff this
00:27:01.880
emotional ventriloquism is part of mr cooper's approach and appeal on tiktok a fan praised him
00:27:06.980
as one of the best historians of our time because he tries to go out of his way to understand the
00:27:10.520
perspective of everyone involved in a situation these critics have probably helped make mr cooper
00:27:15.680
bigger than ever he has been the most subscribed to history newsletter on substack one spot ahead of the
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eminent economic historian adam tuses in the wake of the rogan interview mart martyr made blah blah blah
00:27:27.600
blah okay so they go on and on and on to talk about how this just can't stand i mean we've got to
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there's got to be some sort of filter and you know joe rogan just can't have on whoever he wants to have on
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that's the problem is it new york times is that the problem hmm it's really interesting now let me just
00:27:53.580
look and and let me just look in the past here and see if we've had this exact same problem with anybody
00:28:01.300
else because the person that came to mind was not daryl cooper but nicole hannah jones because i think
00:28:09.520
those two are the same coin and the coins counterfeit but just opposite sides of the same coin the martyr
00:28:17.540
made podcast spins a tale of grievance and distrust and it's wrapped enough in in enough fact to keep
00:28:23.640
it plausible um but there are some facts in there okay jones she did the 1619 project she did the same
00:28:33.860
thing in reverse except i think she's actually worse i mean because i think she made up almost
00:28:40.060
everything in that she recasts american history as racist from the very inception of the country
00:28:47.560
neither one of them is telling the whole truth neither one of them neither one wants to i think
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they're both in the business of narrative and not history so am i but i try to be fair
00:29:00.300
the real problem is not these two honestly it's the new york times because in their sunday styles
00:29:10.780
right up on cooper the times poses as a concerned observer wary of growing influence among the
00:29:18.240
disaffected right why are we disaffected why is the right disaffected we're disaffected because
00:29:24.560
you have tried to take our country from us everything that we believe our history our values
00:29:30.060
our traditions and you've tried to uh denigrate them and destroy them every step of the way and
00:29:35.480
you've done it with one lie right after another okay why are they framing him not with facts but
00:29:43.380
with suspicion not because he's dishonest or not dishonest but because he's popular they clutch their
00:29:51.120
pearls because he has an audience and only the new york times can have that audience but where was
00:29:56.480
that concern when they did when they when they gave an audience to nicole hannah jones and gave her a
00:30:03.140
pulitzer for a project now so discredited by the very historians that are now talking about cooper
00:30:09.720
where was the caution when they declared that 1619 not 1776 was the true founding of the nation
00:30:18.240
they didn't question her authority they didn't say well she's not a historian they printed it in fact
00:30:23.740
they taught it and endorsed it they platformed it in schools that's different than anything that joe rogan
00:30:32.400
is doing they platformed it in schools so let's be clear okay i think both cooper and jones are wrong
00:30:41.380
they may have points worth considering but i think that they get it fundamentally wrong in a few places
00:30:49.940
they they are looking at facts to sell the story um and not necessarily reveal the truth
00:30:56.420
now maybe i'm being too cynical but that's the way i see it and i'm not condemning either one i'm condemning
00:31:03.940
all of those on the left or the right that are now doing the same thing that the new york times did
00:31:11.240
with uh uh with uh cooper but didn't do with hannah nicole jones
00:31:17.620
only one of those two was lauded by the new york times as legitimate and a necessary corrective
00:31:25.980
even though it was all a lie made up so that's what when i'm i'm reading that op-ed in the new york times
00:31:34.080
i can't take the oh my gosh the hypocritical nature of it i just blood shoots out of my eyes
00:31:40.440
because that's what the new york times is actually saying don't you little people understand
00:31:46.920
we must decide what stories are acceptable not you not somebody like joe rogan
00:31:54.040
we will decide which distortions are virtuous and which ones are dangerous not you we get to choose
00:32:02.100
the false prophets that get a column which and which ones are called conspiracy theorists we at
00:32:08.980
the new york times we in the media and that is the problem this isn't about the authors
00:32:17.520
okay first amendment gives them a right to say whatever they want you may not like it if you
00:32:23.040
don't like it stop listening well but other people might listen yeah well hmm other people might
00:32:28.480
listen and maybe we should pay more attention to our education in our schools maybe we should pay
00:32:34.880
more attention so we don't become somebody that is uh a dummy themselves and are because this is the
00:32:43.740
problem we don't have a press that exposes lies anymore we have a press that curates the lies
00:32:50.800
i really think this is why i started collecting you know we have now the third largest collection
00:32:59.880
of founding documents in the american journey experience along with david barton's wall builders
00:33:06.060
it is it's only behind the national archives and the library of congress most people don't know it
00:33:11.880
because you know we don't talk about it yet beginning in 26 we're going to be making a big deal out of it
00:33:17.860
um we also have the largest collection of pilgrim era artifacts and documents in the world the
00:33:24.280
largest so i can tell you what happened in jamestown in 1619 i can tell you this the ship that hannah
00:33:32.140
nicole jones talks about there were no slaves on that ship how do i know we have the manifest
00:33:37.440
no slaves hmm that seems problematic doesn't it and the mayflower did not launch a system of the
00:33:47.840
of slavery in fact they fought against it we oh this is so crazy what the pilgrims did against
00:33:57.480
slavery was remarkable remarkable when a slave ship accidentally came into their port it was
00:34:05.800
slavery was against the law they called it man stealing it was against the law and as soon as
00:34:09.960
that slave came into port you could smell a slave ship they knew exactly what it was and they marched
00:34:14.300
marched up and they arrested the captain of the ship they put him in irons and put him in jail and then
00:34:21.240
these people who were already paying 50 percent of everything they made these poor people 50 percent of
00:34:28.900
everything they made to a king that they despised but they paid it because they wanted just to stay
00:34:34.140
alive they took up a collection from each other not outside from each other got a new captain refueled
00:34:44.300
restocked the ship and sent those people those slaves back to africa so they could be freed that's who
00:34:51.740
our pilgrims were don't believe me you don't have to take my word for it we have the evidence
00:34:57.060
please you know they the longest running treaty with native americans happened with our pilgrims and
00:35:05.060
you know who broke it not the white man it was the native americans and you know why because after
00:35:11.020
years and years of the pilgrims and the native americans getting along christianity was starting
00:35:15.900
to seep into their culture and they needed to go to war with a tribe and the war that the way they
00:35:21.380
used to fight it the native americans were it was okay to enslave your enemy in fact you needed to
00:35:27.140
you could torture them after you won just to make a point and then you could enslave anybody you wanted
00:35:34.780
and christianity said no you can't do either one of those things and so the native americans that
00:35:41.420
were part of this tribe that were friends and under this treaty with the pilgrims they started telling
00:35:46.600
their chief you know we can't do these things and the chief got so pissed because he's like we were
00:35:51.200
fighting a war and we're fighting the way we've always fought it that they broke the treaty did you
00:35:56.120
know that nah no we were just horrible we stole the land oh did america live up to its ideals no has
00:36:06.940
anybody ever have you has the pope has anybody really lived up to their ideals all the time no
00:36:13.020
but you have ideals and that's what matters by the way on the other side i also happen to own a few
00:36:20.580
original nazi documents from the actual perpetrators i've got documents from the engineer that actually
00:36:27.420
calculated how much zyklon b it would take to murder a room full of jews okay uh it wasn't because
00:36:34.240
they didn't want to they didn't have enough food that this was calculated i have the final prescription
00:36:40.220
signed by dr mangala for a thousand liters of luminol for the so-called children's hospital that's how the
00:36:47.720
reich was killing the undesirables in the children's hospital they didn't do it in a frenzy it wasn't in
00:36:53.740
a riot it wasn't out of desperation it was silence in lab coats with bureaucrats and experts signing off
00:37:02.060
and the press like the new york times refusing to say a word about it the scariest people are not the
00:37:09.360
ones in the streets they weren't they were the ones with titles with offices with press credentials
00:37:15.120
they were the ones with the doctorates they were the people who decided what could be published
00:37:21.900
who could be punished what could be known what could be said and that's the danger that we're staring
00:37:28.480
down right now not from fringe theorists on a podcast not even from overzealous academics with a
00:37:36.060
pulitzer but from the institutions that bless one distortion and condemn the other not based on truth
00:37:43.160
but based on usefulness is it useful to our side i just want you to know this is my stance on this and
00:37:51.340
make this very very clear the first amendment does not exist to protect comfortable speech it doesn't
00:37:58.700
exist to protect cooper uh as opposed to jones it exists to protect both of them it protects
00:38:08.020
uncomfortable points of view things you do not like to hear and disagreement it protects people who
00:38:15.340
are absolutely wrong and even those who are lying it protects the process so you can figure it out
00:38:25.960
there is no licensed priesthood in our country you know that are the the priesthood of truth tellers
00:38:32.940
no official ministry of facts that's where countries go wrong the times should be exposing both sides of
00:38:39.940
these stories just like i'm doing the distortions of the right and the left but instead they become
00:38:47.540
exactly what they've warned us about a newspaper that prints dogma and not dialogue
00:38:53.100
and the real problem here no the real solution here is you jefferson warned that a man who reads
00:39:03.480
nothing um but newspapers i'm sorry a man who reads nothing is better informed than a man who only
00:39:10.720
reads the newspaper okay i would say the newspaper is today's social media man who reads nothing is more
00:39:18.020
well educated than a man who just only reads social media but today we might say better to be ignorant
00:39:24.300
than confidently uh misled by trusted media they see themselves not as a watchdog but as a shepherd and
00:39:32.660
we are the sheep so i'm not defending either one i'm defending the idea that we the people not the
00:39:39.560
institutions not the elites not the new york times not joe rogan you decide what's true and that takes
00:39:45.800
work and it takes curiosity maybe the other guy's wrong i don't know maybe i don't have the whole story
00:39:51.600
either i don't know look it up because the minute you let somebody else decide what you're allowed to
00:39:58.660
hear you have already surrendered your freedom to think
00:40:03.540
all right z factor intentionally or not you've been robbing yourself a little bit lately a little bit here
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leaving for her pickleball tournament i've been visualizing my match all week she was so focused on
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visualizing that she didn't see the column behind her car on her backhand side good thing claudia's
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with intact the insurer with the largest network of auto service centers in the country everything
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was taken care of under one roof and she was on her way in a rental car in no time i made it to my
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tournament and lost in the first round but you got there on time intact insurance your auto service ace
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oh i uh i have a few things to say about what's happening with the return of the illegals that is
00:44:02.200
this is an outrage we have got to stop this is do you know this was actually a point of view
00:44:08.500
uh on msnbc one that this is exactly what hitler did surprise surprise and next this is this is
00:44:16.660
just donald trump lulling african americans to sleep you're next he's going to deport you
00:44:21.500
african oh my god are we really this stupid that we're just going to allow this
00:44:30.180
and why the concentration on this we'll talk about it next
00:44:34.460
is glenn back there are threats you can see and there are ones that kind of hit you out of nowhere
00:44:39.900
and home title theft is one of those does it doesn't start with a broken window or a strange
00:44:45.240
knock at the door like you might be thinking a typical theft might it starts with a hacker
00:44:49.020
sitting halfway across the country or the world who finds a way into your online title and forges a
00:44:55.480
new document uh suddenly kind of out of nowhere one of those situations where you don't see this
00:45:01.580
coming at all it's just kind of pops you right in the face at the moment you least expect it
00:45:05.980
um that's home title lock it's why it's there it's to defend you against these types of things
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and locks down your most valuable asset before the damage is done because once it starts
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00:46:44.700
Hello America, welcome to the Glenn Beck Program
00:46:54.340
I'm going to meet with the President on Wednesday
00:47:01.320
What, if you had one question to ask the President
00:47:10.620
I don't know if we're going to have time to get to phone calls today
00:47:23.840
I think I'm talking to the Secretary of Education tomorrow
00:47:28.480
I hope I'm going to be talking to the Secretary of Treasury as well
00:47:47.840
I just want to talk to you about some actual numbers
00:47:50.720
And just see if we can cut through the bull crap
00:48:23.840
Until the photos start to fade around the edges
01:28:33.160
of entertainment and enlightenment this is the glenn beck program well hello america so i'm in
01:28:44.640
washington dc and we've already done two hours and i mean i could do more on things like this
01:28:50.700
could we play cut to a jasmine crockett here it is but here's the reality um as far as i'm concerned
01:28:57.040
he's a lot less criminal than the person that's sitting in the white house because last time i
01:29:00.680
checked he doesn't have any criminal convictions i don't even think he has any outstanding cases
01:29:05.120
versus the guy that still had cases pending when he was sworn in on january 20th and also has 34
01:29:11.320
felony convictions so listen i don't want to hear anything from the republican party about how they
01:29:15.400
trying to keep us safe when their fearless leader is actually the biggest criminal thus far that we
01:29:21.100
have seen because i haven't seen anybody with a rap sheet that looks like the president's okay
01:29:25.800
jasmine crockett uh for president that's all i have to say uh wow how delightful that is i mean i
01:29:34.960
could go i could go there but really do we have to i mean don't we i mean i think we all get it i you
01:29:41.860
know it's the day after easter and uh i don't know i'd rather talk about bunnies for an hour but i have
01:29:48.800
a i have something so much better than bunnies for an hour i have one of the guys he is time magazine
01:29:55.500
called him uh one of the 100 most influential people in ai i mean i i hate to break it to him
01:30:03.660
but i was i was one of the most 100 most influential people in the world at one point so it kind of takes
01:30:09.080
the shine off of that whole thing but he deserved to be on that uh he is uh the executive director of
01:30:16.860
the ai futures project he is a former open ai researcher and uh he's got some warnings on some
01:30:24.900
things and i thought you know after last week when i saw the uh the thing from eric schmidt where he was
01:30:31.360
like you know we really don't know what's coming uh you know in a couple of years uh it's gonna be
01:30:36.640
smarter than all of us and uh what does that mean uh you know i don't know i i thought we should just
01:30:41.800
spend a couple of minutes on that uh you know so we're gonna do that here in 60 seconds stand by
01:30:47.380
first for years without even realizing a lot of us have been funding causes we disagree with through
01:30:53.860
companies that take our money and turn around and use it you know against us big tech big banks even
01:30:58.600
big wireless they've gotten so comfortable they don't even hide it anymore and you know i appreciate
01:31:02.860
that they don't just tell me who you are i mean i live next door to you you know i just want to know
01:31:07.460
what you believe in and you know we can disagree and then i can decide to do business with you or
01:31:12.400
not do business with you you know these uh places like verizon they they donate to places that are
01:31:19.300
actively working to dismantle the values that you stand for and then they send you a bill at the end
01:31:25.160
of the month for that privilege but there is a choice patriot mobile america's only christian
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patriot so uh we have uh daniel cocatello uh and uh he's a former open ai researcher daniel have you
01:32:15.340
been on the program before i don't think you have have you uh no i haven't yeah well welcome i'm glad
01:32:21.440
you're here um really appreciate it thank you sir um we wanted to have you on because i am a guy who
01:32:27.880
i've been talking about ai forever uh and it is both just thrilling and one of the scariest things
01:32:35.820
i've ever seen at the same time and it's kind of like not really sure which way it's going um
01:32:41.820
are you how confident are you that what'd you say it's going to go both ways uh it's going to be
01:32:49.300
very thrilling and also very scary yeah okay good good good all right well uh thanks for starting my
01:32:55.560
monday off with that um so can you can you tell me first of all let's start with some of the good
01:32:59.940
things that you think are coming and are right around the corner that people just don't understand
01:33:04.180
because i don't think anybody the average person has they hear this they think it's oh it's like
01:33:10.160
social media it's going to be like the cell phone it's going to change everything and they don't know
01:33:15.240
that yet yeah well um where to begin i think so probably people are familiar with systems like
01:33:26.720
chat gpt now which are large language models that you can go have an actual normal conversation with
01:33:32.380
unlike ordinary software programs um they're getting better at everything in particular uh right now and
01:33:40.620
in the next few years the companies are working on turning them into autonomous agents so instead of
01:33:45.640
simply uh responding to some message that you send them and then you know turning off they would be
01:33:52.620
continuously operating uh roaming around browsing the internet working on their own projects uh on their
01:34:00.140
own computers checking in with you send you messages like a like a human employee basically right
01:34:06.420
um that's what the companies are working on now and it's the stated intention of the ceos of these
01:34:12.960
companies to build eventually super intelligence um what is super intelligence super intelligence is
01:34:19.920
fully autonomous ai systems that are better than humans at absolutely everything
01:34:23.720
so on the surface that that sounds that sounds like a movie that we've all seen and you kind of
01:34:33.040
you know you say that uh and you're like anybody that's working on these have they seen the same
01:34:38.480
movies i've seen i mean what the heck let's spring and let's just go to see jurassic park uh you know ex
01:34:45.300
machina what do you what do you think i don't i mean is it just me or do people in the industry go
01:34:51.980
you know this could be really bad yeah it's a great question and the answer is they totally have seen
01:34:59.020
those movies and they totally think yes it could go really bad in fact that's part of the
01:35:02.860
founding story of some of these companies so um what do you mean what do you mean so um uh shane leg
01:35:11.720
who is i guess arguably the technical founder of deep minds which is now part of google deep minds
01:35:17.240
which is one of the big three uh companies building building towards super intelligence um
01:35:22.680
i believe in his phd thesis he discussed the possibility of uh superhuman ai systems and how if
01:35:30.660
they were not correctly aligned to the right values if they were not correctly instilled with the
01:35:35.460
appropriate uh ethics that they could kill everyone and you know become a superior competitor species to
01:35:42.820
humans um it's not just him lots of the people at these companies especially early on basically had
01:35:49.660
similar thoughts of wow this is going to be the biggest thing ever um if it goes well it could be the
01:35:55.960
best thing that ever happens if it goes poorly it could literally kill everyone or do something
01:36:00.600
you know similarly catastrophic like lead to a permanent dystopia um people react to that in
01:36:06.940
different ways so um some people sort of stayed in academia some people you know stayed in whatever
01:36:13.020
other jobs they had or founded non-profits to do research about this sort of thing some people
01:36:17.560
uh decided well if this is going to happen then it's better if good people like me and my friends
01:36:25.120
are in charge when it happens um and so that's basically the founding story of a lot of these
01:36:30.160
companies that's sort of part of why uh deep mind was created and that's part of why open ai was created
01:36:36.200
i highly recommend going and reading some of the uh the emails that surfaced in court documents
01:36:41.540
uh related to the lawsuits um against open ai because in some of those emails you see uh some
01:36:49.480
of the founders of open ai talking to each other about why they founded open ai um and basically it
01:36:55.960
was because they didn't trust deep mind to handle this responsibly um and anyhow did they go on to come
01:37:03.080
up with did they come on did they go on to say like you know and that's why we've developed this
01:37:09.940
and it's going to protect us from it i mean or did they just lose their way what happened
01:37:16.720
i mean it's an interesting sociological question my my take on it is that institutions tend to be
01:37:26.380
um tend to conform to their incentives over time there's been a sort of like
01:37:34.540
there's been a sort of evaporative cooling effect where the people who are most concerned about
01:37:41.580
where all this is headed tend to uh not be the ones who get promoted and end up running the companies
01:37:48.160
and they tend to be the ones who for example quit like me um you'll be gonna stop there for a second
01:37:54.900
let's hang on just stop there for a second you were a governance researcher at open ai
01:37:59.060
on scenario planning what does that mean i was i was a researcher on the governance team
01:38:05.760
scenario planning is just one of several things that i did um so basically i mean i did a couple
01:38:13.820
different things that open ai one of the things that i did was try to game out what the future is
01:38:18.420
going to look like so ai 2027 is a uh much bigger more elaborate more rigorous version of
01:38:25.920
uh some smaller projects that i sort of did while i was at open ai if that makes sense like
01:38:30.860
i think back in 2022 i like wrote my own like gears gaming out what the next couple years were
01:38:36.340
going to look like internal scenario right um and then how close now that i've left are you i can
01:38:41.500
i'll get some things right get some things wrong um okay the basic trend is hard to miss right
01:38:46.960
as systems getting better and better becoming more autonomous etc um for how close i was overall i
01:38:54.120
actually did a similar scenario back in 2021 before i joined open ai and so you can go read that and
01:39:01.060
judge what i got right and what i got wrong um i would say that that's about par for the course for
01:39:07.100
me when i tend to do these sorts of things and i'm hoping that yeah 2027 will uh also be you know
01:39:13.240
about that level of right and wrong so you mentioned the thing the thing the thing i wrote in 2021 is
01:39:21.840
called uh what 2026 looks like in case you want to look it up okay well we'll look it up um you
01:39:28.240
walked away from millions in equity in open ai what what what made you walk away what were they doing
01:39:35.720
that made you go i don't think it's worth the money so
01:39:41.220
so back to the bigger picture i think remember these companies are trying to build super intelligence
01:39:51.040
uh it's going to be better than humans uh better than the best humans at everything
01:39:56.280
while also being faster and cheaper and you can just make you know many many copies of them
01:40:00.860
uh to the ceo of anthropic dario amadai he uses this term uh the country of geniuses on a data
01:40:07.220
center to try to visualize what it would be look like what it would look like because
01:40:10.740
quantitatively we're talking you know millions of copies each one of which is uh smarter than the
01:40:17.140
smartest geniuses while also being more charismatic than the most charismatic you know celebrities and
01:40:23.240
politicians like this everything right so that's what they're building towards and that raises a
01:40:28.580
bunch of important questions like is that even a good idea for us to build for example and like
01:40:35.940
how are we going to make that safe and also who gets to control the army of geniuses in the data
01:40:42.920
centers you know right and right what what orders are they going to be given and who gets to decide
01:40:48.420
right and like these are some extremely important questions right um and uh there's a huge actually
01:40:54.940
that's not even other questions there's a long list of other very important questions too i was just
01:40:58.580
scratching the surface um and what i was hoping would happen at open ai and at these other
01:41:05.100
companies is that as the creation of these ai systems gets closer and closer you know it it started
01:41:14.200
out being far in the future uh but as time goes on and progress is made uh it starts to feel like
01:41:20.680
something that could happen in the next few years right yes right as as we get closer and closer
01:41:26.180
uh there needs to be a lot more waking up and paying attention and asking these hard questions and a lot
01:41:33.020
more effort exerted to prepare uh to deal with these issues so for example um opening i created the super
01:41:39.920
alignment team which was a uh a team of technical researchers and engineers specifically focused on the
01:41:48.000
question of how do we make sure that we can put any values into these ai systems how do we make sure
01:41:55.380
that we can control them at all um even when they're smarter than us uh so they started that team and
01:42:01.860
uh they said that they were going to give 20 percent of their compute to to working on this problem
01:42:10.200
basically how much how much how much percentage went uh well i don't know and i can't say but i think
01:42:17.260
it's much less than 20 percent um it was a big step up right yeah yeah so 20 was was huge at the time
01:42:23.960
because it was way more than the company than any company was devoting to uh to that technical
01:42:29.940
question at the time so at the time it was a sort of leap forward it didn't pan out um as far as i know
01:42:36.300
they're still not at anywhere near 20 percent and that's just an example of the sort of thing
01:42:40.740
that made me quit where i'm like we are just not ready and we're not even taking the steps to get
01:42:45.220
ready and so we are we're going to be anyway even though we don't understand it don't know how to
01:42:50.520
control it and you know it's going to be a disaster that's basically uh what caused me to leave
01:42:56.440
so so hang on just a second um give me a minute i'm going to come back and i want to ask you
01:43:02.900
you have an opinion on who should run this because i don't like opening ai i mean i like
01:43:09.440
i like x better than anybody only because elon musk is just open to free speech on everything but i
01:43:16.440
don't even trust him i don't i don't trust any of these people and i certainly don't trust the
01:43:21.120
government so who's going to end up with all of this compute and do we get the compute and enough
01:43:27.620
to be able to stop it or enough to be able to be dangerous i mean oh it just makes your head hurt
01:43:34.180
uh we'll we'll go into that when we come back hang on just a second first let me tell you about our
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01:45:22.520
daniel cocatello he is um uh former open ai researcher ai futures project executive director
01:45:41.000
and uh talking about the reckless race to use his words to build agi
01:45:46.180
um you can find his work at ai dash 2027.com uh so daniel who is going to end up with control of this
01:45:55.820
thing great question um what do i want to say here um well probably no one and if not no one
01:46:09.620
probably some ceo or president would be my guess um oh that's you want to understand why i think this
01:46:17.820
and in general or like in general if you want to understand you know uh my views the views of my
01:46:23.560
team at the ai futures project and sort of how it all fits together and and why we came to
01:46:29.260
these conclusions uh you can go read uh our website which has all of this stuff on it um which is
01:46:36.260
basically our best guess attempt at at predicting the future obviously you know the future is very
01:46:41.820
difficult to predict we're probably going to get a bunch of things wrong but this is our best guess
01:46:45.500
um and that's ai-2027.com yes um yeah so yeah as you were saying it seems like we're going to
01:46:54.900
if if one of these companies or several of these companies succeed in getting to
01:46:59.100
this army of geniuses on the data center the super intelligent ais there's the question of who
01:47:05.240
controls them there's a technical question of can do we does humanity even have the tools it needs
01:47:11.040
to control super intelligent ais so does anyone control them um and i mean it seems to me like
01:47:18.460
an unsolved question i think anybody who really understands this it's like you know we can build gates
01:47:25.620
but it's like a baby gate i mean you know imagine a baby trying to outsmart the parent you're not
01:47:31.220
going to be able to do it it'll just step over that gate and i don't understand why the a super
01:47:36.480
intelligence wouldn't just go oh that's cute not doing that you know i mean totally and getting
01:47:42.120
getting a little bit into the literature here so there's there's a division of strategies into
01:47:46.580
ai control techniques and ai alignment techniques so the control techniques are designed to
01:47:53.220
allow you to control the super intelligent ai or the you know agi or whatever it is you're trying to
01:48:00.620
control um despite the fact that it might be at odds with you and it might have different goals than
01:48:07.560
you have different opinions about how the future should be right so so that's a sort of adversarial
01:48:12.620
technique where you for example uh restrict its access to stuff and you monitor it closely and you
01:48:20.220
um you use other copies of the ai as watchers to you play them off against each other there's all
01:48:27.280
these sort of control techniques that are designed to work even if you can't trust the ais and then
01:48:34.060
there's alignment techniques which are designed to make it the case that you don't need the control
01:48:38.080
techniques because the ais are virtuous and loyal and obedient and trustworthy you know etc right and
01:48:45.780
so alignment techniques are trying to sort of instill the specified values deeply into the ais in
01:48:53.620
robust ways so that you never need the control techniques because they would never you know
01:48:58.900
so so there's alignment techniques and control techniques both are uh important fields of
01:49:03.760
research there's maybe a couple hundred people working on on these fields right now but hold on
01:49:09.620
because they both of them sound like they're not gonna they're not gonna work but we'll come back
01:49:14.760
with more in a minute glenn beck is that i mean this is a movie we're living in a movie all right
01:49:23.300
you can feel the unease in the markets a sense that something is uh moving right underneath the
01:49:27.620
surface and you're just trying to stay a step ahead of it for a lot of americans right now the
01:49:31.020
question isn't if there's going to be a collapse it's when and how bad i was uh i was having conversation
01:49:36.840
with chat gpt over the weekend about five thousand dollar gold and uh i said you know what does the world
01:49:42.660
look like at five thousand dollar gold because i think i know uh it wasn't pretty uh by any stretch
01:49:49.160
of the imagination and uh and it and it was i think one of the scariest lines was and it's not
01:49:54.840
really a matter of uh if now it's just a matter of when because things are you know they're spiraling
01:50:00.560
out so you might want to call and see if gold is right for you gold or silver i don't care if you
01:50:06.440
have a dollar in it you know five thousand dollar gold we're we're at 3500 or was it 3500 3600 today
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12 months ago it was at 24 all right i mean that's that's not that's not good not good uh you might
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800-957-GOLD be prepared now's the time to join blaze tv go to blaze tv.com slash glenn use the promo
01:50:39.660
so everybody in the office now is looking at uh ai-2027.com and let me just say it's not
01:51:06.540
going to improve your mood much let me just give you this at the end of 2025 let me give you just
01:51:14.220
this uh do the fully trained models have some kind of robust commitments to always being honest or will
01:51:20.400
this fall apart in some future situation because it's learned honesty is an instrumental goal instead
01:51:26.380
of a terminal goal blah blah blah blah blah uh could it be lying to itself sometimes as humans do
01:51:31.880
uh researchers try to identify cases where the models seem to deviate from the spec agent one is
01:51:38.100
often uh sycophantic it tells researchers what they want to hear instead of trying to tell them the
01:51:43.620
truth in a few rigged demos i don't know what that means we're gonna have to ask him in a second
01:51:47.780
it even lies in more serious ways like hiding evidence that it failed on a task in order to get
01:51:54.480
better ratings however in real deployment settings there are no longer any uh incidents so extreme as in
01:52:01.380
the 2023-24 gemini telling the user to die and uh bing sid uh sydney being bing sydney i don't know
01:52:09.700
what that means but uh the guy who does know what that means is uh with us daniel uh this is your
01:52:16.240
website um what does that last sentence or two mean that this is kind of under control now
01:52:22.580
so let's just say here so if you if you google bing sydney uh you might find this new york times
01:52:32.320
article by a journalist who chatted with um basically a version of chat gpt and uh tried to
01:52:40.780
like convince him to leave his wife uh and stuff like that right yeah that's right it was it was just
01:52:46.000
pretty unhinged and uh just in general with a lot of users uh was behaving in some pretty erratic
01:52:54.300
crazy and scary ways um yes so what we're saying in our ai 2027 projection is that the company is
01:53:04.160
sort of like hammer away at these bad behaviors and uh at least make them seemingly go away or like
01:53:11.400
make make make it less obviously bad over over the next year or two um i should mention by the way
01:53:18.060
that uh it's it's not just back 2023-2024 to my mild surprise uh the ais are still uh lying quite
01:53:26.480
often um there was just a there is uh just something i saw from this other organization
01:53:33.240
called transluce that does interpretability research and red teaming where yeah it feels like
01:53:39.280
it seems like even the uh even today's uh chatbot models will sometimes just pretend that they
01:53:46.400
uh answered your question or completed your request even though they didn't and then if you ask them
01:53:51.980
about it they'll double down on it and try to sort of gaslight you um so i i've been using i've been
01:53:58.340
using yeah go ahead uh i was just going to say this is a huge glaring problem right now is that
01:54:06.020
whatever honesty training that companies are doing is not working uh but i'm i'm we are projecting
01:54:13.880
that because there's such a um pr risk and such an obvious market incentive the companies will like
01:54:22.440
hammer away at it and figure out ways to like at least make the obvious failures the obvious
01:54:27.600
dishonesties and lies and so forth go away uh by you know by the time it's 2027 but then that
01:54:35.680
leaves the remaining question of like well has it actually become actually truly deeply honest
01:54:39.560
or have you just sort of like trained it to be better at uh not lying in ways that are obvious
01:54:45.100
and get caught you know so daniel let me let me ask you because and please feel free to just say
01:54:52.100
okay that's the dumbest thing i've ever heard but the way i the way i look at what's happening is
01:54:57.880
you know if you think of a giant tank underground all of that compute is down there and we're just
01:55:05.500
up above you know with a spigot and we're just opening it just a little bit at a time and say no
01:55:11.280
no not a lot of that but it's still down in the tank doing those things is is there any kind of
01:55:19.040
does that make sense to you is that the way you could understand and and and help me look at it that
01:55:25.120
way or differently um well the way that i would recommend thinking about it is uh modern ai systems
01:55:32.780
are neural nets they are not traditional software programs so if you were to sort of open them up
01:55:38.920
and look inside them it wouldn't look like a bunch of lines of code that were written by humans right
01:55:43.760
where you know the program sort of like uh follows those lines of code and strictly executes on the
01:55:50.380
instructions written down in those lines of code instead they're sort of like a giant artificial
01:55:55.340
brain with lots of uh connections or neurons right um and uh rather than being designed by humans they
01:56:04.860
are trained so they they're put in some sort of training environment and the system sort of
01:56:10.560
automatically learns to score highly in that training environment um so it's more like training a dog
01:56:17.860
you might say than uh or training a child uh than than building something and so that leads to
01:56:26.440
this is maybe getting back to what you're saying it means that we don't have a way to actually check
01:56:32.180
whether right it's really learned the values that we wanted to learn or whether it's just for example
01:56:38.500
literally lying to us and pretending to have those values right or a third alternative it has sort of
01:56:44.460
learned the values but not quite in the way that we wanted and we're only going to write out later
01:56:50.000
there's all these different possibilities and we did we don't actually have the way to just open up
01:56:56.780
the system and check you know there are people working on building such a way so there's there's
01:57:00.340
something called interpretability research which is a exciting new field of of technical uh research
01:57:06.620
that's aimed at fixing this issue but it's this is this what good fire is
01:57:11.480
um good fire good fire the startup i think it came out last year and it's i don't know they put a
01:57:20.820
million dollars into it and it's to help ai developers understand the inner workings of what's happening
01:57:26.840
inside i don't know if you've heard of it sounds like i haven't heard of it but yeah there's a there's
01:57:30.740
a couple different startups and so like translucent was the group that i mentioned previously that was
01:57:35.740
right uh showing the recent report of lying uh in ais yeah they're an example of this sort of startup
01:57:40.920
that like is working on interpretability research um so so it's not like the situation is absolutely
01:57:46.900
hopeless if there's enough progress made in interpretability research then it'll be a whole
01:57:52.320
different ball game and we'll be able to actually you know determine what goals and values a given ai
01:57:58.120
system has and predict how it would behave in future scenarios um but we're not there yet this is this
01:58:03.860
research is sort of very this field is very young and uh not ready for prime time what happens
01:58:11.640
you're invested in what happens is from my understanding um that uh the government uh a couple of years ago
01:58:23.460
said you know to silicon valley don't worry about developing any of this stuff we're going to own it
01:58:28.660
we're going to control it uh which scares the life out of me um but uh what what happens if
01:58:36.300
we don't get it and china gets it first what i mean do you have any idea how real the race is are we
01:58:44.360
way ahead kind of ahead behind where where is this great question so um first of all i think that
01:58:53.500
what happens whether we get there first or china gets there first is probably uh the same either way
01:59:02.040
because we probably just lose control of it and if they get there first they probably just lose
01:59:05.080
control of it um however however however uh i might be wrong you know we might be wrong um it's possible
01:59:12.920
that enough progress will be made on the technical alignment and control problems that whoever wins the
01:59:20.220
race will actually stay in control of their super intelligent army and uh then we get into sort of
01:59:26.620
concentration of power issues right so then it matters quite a lot who wins and and who they are and
01:59:32.880
what they do with their army right um and obviously we would rather it be us than china um for many
01:59:41.900
reasons which i probably don't need to elaborate on um there's also the question of like well who among
01:59:46.540
us exactly like is it going to be a ceo which ceo i know where's it going to be you know some
01:59:52.000
other or is it the president you know i think ideally we should be trying to avoid a situation where
01:59:57.800
any one man or any small group of men has uh that level of power right um if there is going to be an
02:00:06.560
army of super intelligences it should be you know like the united states army loyal to the constitution
02:00:12.140
loyal to the american people rather than loyal to you know for example the president or the ceo of
02:00:18.020
the company that trained them yeah but do you know anybody that thinks like that i mean i'd be
02:00:22.200
okay with that if it understood the you know the traditional values and principles that make us good
02:00:29.900
people and you know just war theory all that kind of stuff uh and trained on the constitution i'd be
02:00:36.200
okay with that i don't believe that it ever would be tight but i mean is anybody doing that is anybody
02:00:43.440
working in that direction um i'm not sure which is what you mean can you say more it is is somebody
02:00:52.220
working towards a you know a constitutionally centered you know bill of rights you know i'm gonna
02:00:59.600
first do no harm to humans you know is anybody doing that yeah so sort of so you can
02:01:05.460
um so anthropic which is one of these big three companies um maybe i shouldn't say big three one
02:01:12.240
one of the the major companies that's explicitly trying to build super intelligence soon and thinks
02:01:17.240
they might succeed uh they have their constitution which they train the ais on and i think you can go
02:01:22.900
read it and it describes it's it's it's the a written document that describes the goals and principles
02:01:29.580
that the ais are supposed to have of course we haven't made that much progress on the technical
02:01:34.700
element problem so they don't actually have those goals and principles at least not not fully but
02:01:38.820
but but but at least this is like a written document describing uh the intended goals and
02:01:44.320
principles and similarly open ai has something called the model spec you can go google this uh
02:01:49.560
they have it up on the website that is their version of this that describes um the goals and
02:01:54.680
principles that their ais are supposed to follow or at least they're publicly available ais
02:01:58.000
they don't make any claims about whether this covers their internal ais um no jeez so uh so yeah
02:02:05.400
so so you can go read those documents and you can get a sense of like what goals and principles these
02:02:10.160
companies are trying to train into their models uh their ais that is um there's still the question of
02:02:17.400
like well who gets to write those documents and who gets to say what those goals and principles are
02:02:22.200
and in fact right there's even the question of who gets to know what those goals and principles are
02:02:26.400
because apparently the company is under no obligation to uh to actually tell the public about what goals
02:02:33.340
and principles and values and agendas etc they're putting into their ai systems um and in fact there's
02:02:39.800
been a few scandals uh relating to that where a company basically gave their ais a hidden agenda and
02:02:47.780
instructed the ais to not tell the users about it and then this uh you know blew up so there's
02:02:54.540
definitely an unfortunate point that's been set um i think what i'd like to be in a world one you know
02:03:00.260
ai 2027 is a predictive exercise it's not a normative exercise so um it is just our our sort of
02:03:08.900
modal prediction of what we think the future looks like at least at the time that we wrote it obviously
02:03:14.080
our views are constantly changing uh as we update based on new evidence but um it wasn't an attempt
02:03:19.840
to recommend uh what people should do but if you do want to know what i recommend people should do one
02:03:26.280
of the things that i recommend is transparency um i think that there should be uh firm rules that the
02:03:33.840
companies are required to follow that basically say you have to tell the public what goals principles
02:03:39.360
etc you are trying to train into your ais you mean like an open ai
02:03:44.980
right um i mean and again none of this matters if you haven't solved the technical problem of
02:03:54.660
figuring out better training methods that actually result in the ais having the goals and principles
02:03:59.300
that you want but but if you do solve that problem and you do manage to get them to actually
02:04:04.000
um have those goals and principles it becomes the most important question in the world of
02:04:09.140
what are those goals and principles and who gets to decide daniel i'd love to have you back for a
02:04:14.400
podcast we can spend a time without any commercials or anything else just talk about this and really
02:04:19.120
dive deep into it can i ask you i've only got about 45 seconds so it has to be kind of a short answer
02:04:23.720
but um i've taken the approach of i want to be in ai and using ai and i have my own kind of
02:04:33.740
bright lines of don't go past this um because i think it's it's a tremendous tool at this point
02:04:40.880
do you recommend that or do you say stay away from it entirely oh i recommend using it i think the
02:04:49.320
okay the best way to yeah i i think that the in individual consumer decisions aren't going to change
02:04:59.020
the outcome and you know it it's like getting plastic straws versus paper straws or whatever
02:05:06.400
um like like on an individual level you should just be learning about what's going on learning
02:05:14.100
about this technology using it as much as you can um and not get sucked into it and yeah as a
02:05:21.660
political matter like we need to have a sort of political conversation about are we actually going to
02:05:26.160
do this people and like if we're going to do this how are we going to do this uh in a way that is
02:05:30.920
safe and in a way that's you know actually democratic instead of uh the sort of mad free-for-all between
02:05:37.660
ceos and politicians thank you so much uh i really appreciate it i hope to have you on uh again you're
02:05:44.080
you're fascinating what you're doing is so important daniel uh daniel cocotelo uh he is a former
02:05:50.400
open ai researcher ai's future project you can find his work and please read it at ai-2027.com
02:05:58.140
ai-2027.com daniel thank you so much back in just a minute let me tell you about our sponsor it's cozy
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tote or that cashmere sweater or those knee-high boots that dress that jacket those shoes is anyone
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paying full price for anything stop wondering start winning winners find fabulous for less
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888-727-BECK is our phone number so much going on in the world so many things to deal with all at
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once a decent time for our own glenn beck to be speaking with the president of the united states
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he'll do that this week as well as a bunch of other administration officials you can get access to all
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of this as part of your blaze tv subscription go to blaze tv.com slash glenn use the promo code glenn
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you'll save 20 bucks and of course we'll have much of that on the radio program as well we'll see you then