The Glenn Beck Program - 'The Best of Glenn Beck'

00:00:00.000 The Blaze Radio Network, on demand.

00:00:11.700 This is the best of the Glenn Beck program.

00:00:17.760 Love, courage, truth.

00:00:22.420 Glenn Beck.

00:00:24.160 If I can geek out just a little bit, today's kind of an exciting day for me.

00:00:28.700 I've wanted to talk to this guy since I read his first novel, Fatherland, which is one of my favorite books of all time.

00:00:35.040 I just love it.

00:00:36.880 And, you know, I've never been big enough to be able to get him on.

00:00:41.640 He also did, I can't remember the name of the book, Code.

00:00:47.340 I'll have to ask him about it.

00:00:48.720 Another great book.

00:00:50.440 Lots of great stories and great novels from Robert Harris.

00:00:57.380 He is the author of a new novel, Munich, and it is all about the Munich Treaty and Neville Chamberlain and what happened with Hitler.

00:01:10.380 But he takes it the way he always does and works a new storyline into it.

00:01:17.680 Welcome to the program, Robert Harris.

00:01:19.620 How are you, sir?

00:01:20.800 I'm very well, Glenn.

00:01:21.820 Thank you for having me on.

00:01:22.900 You bet.

00:01:23.240 Are you over in London?

00:01:25.640 No, I live just outside, not far from Oxford in the country.

00:01:29.960 It's a thrill to have you on.

00:01:32.040 I want to talk to you a little bit about the book, but I don't want to spoil it for anybody.

00:01:36.260 And don't spoil it for me because I'm halfway through.

00:01:38.480 But, you know, it revolves around Neville Chamberlain, and I'm not a real fan of Neville Chamberlain, and he gets kind of a bad rap.

00:01:55.280 Why are you, what is your attraction there?

00:01:58.140 And I seem to think that you are a fan of his.

00:02:01.700 Well, I wouldn't say I was a fan, to be honest, but I do think there are some stories in history which are really quite opposite to what most people think.

00:02:12.140 About 30 years ago, I did a documentary for the BBC television about the 50th anniversary of the Munich Agreement.

00:02:18.920 It's going to be the 80th anniversary this September.

00:02:21.200 And I discovered that it was completely different to what I thought.

00:02:26.460 In particular, Adolf Hitler regarded it as a terrible defeat.

00:02:31.660 And that alone, I think, most people don't understand.

00:02:35.760 And I wrote Fatherland, as you mentioned, but I always had in the back of my mind a desire to write a novel about the Munich Agreement.

00:02:44.980 And I had the idea of writing it from the point of view of one of the officials who flew out with Chamberlain to meet Hitler in September 1938.

00:02:55.840 And then I decided I'd also have a German character who travels on Adolf Hitler's train from Berlin to meet Chamberlain at Munich.

00:03:04.380 And so you follow these two men who were friends, who were at Oxford University together, as they head towards Munich.

00:03:10.860 And it gives me an opportunity to write a first-hand account of both Hitler and of Chamberlain.

00:03:16.660 So how much, Robert, of the novel is really close to true?

00:03:24.440 For instance, the plot to kill Hitler at that point, was that going on?

00:03:32.040 Oh, yes.

00:03:32.480 Everything in the book, really, pretty well is true, apart from these two invented characters, Paul Hartman and Hugh Leggett, the German and the Englishman.

00:03:45.340 Yes.

00:03:45.720 But, I mean, essentially what happened was that Hitler decided at the beginning of the summer of 1938 that he would, for the first time, invade another country.

00:03:57.160 And he issued all this to the German army to prepare to wipe Czechoslovakia off the face of the map.

00:04:03.520 That was how he termed it.

00:04:05.420 And the army came back and said they could, reckoned they could do this in about five or six weeks.

00:04:12.540 And he threw the plans back at them and said, I want to be in Prague within a week.

00:04:18.060 And elements of the German army took fright at this.

00:04:20.760 It was the first time that they really woke up to the fact of where Hitler was likely to lead them.

00:04:26.860 And for the first time, there were contacts between opposition elements in Berlin and the British government in London.

00:04:33.280 And there was a slightly crazy scheme, if the British and French declared war, to try and arrest Hitler.

00:04:40.760 I don't actually think it was that serious.

00:04:43.340 But certainly it was the real first beginnings of the rumblings of a resistance to Hitler as the Germans realized where it was heading.

00:04:50.080 Yeah, I was surprised when Chamberlain arrives in Munich that there were, you know, the Oompa bands that were playing, you know, popular tunes from England, that the crowds cheered him.

00:05:02.420 I always thought of the Germans not for peace.

00:05:08.280 And that's not what it was.

00:05:11.900 Well, no, absolutely.

00:05:13.460 There's no doubt in the historical record about that, that Hitler, according to all the reporters, including the American newspapers, received much louder cheers whenever he appeared than Hitler got.

00:05:23.440 And Hitler was furious about this.

00:05:24.880 One of the reasons I wrote the novel was because I came across, there was a journalist, a German journalist called Joachim Fest, who was the ghostwriter on the memoirs of Albert Speer, the Hitler's armament minister.

00:05:37.700 And in this diary, Fest asked Speer one day back in the 60s, what did Hitler feel about Munich?

00:05:44.620 And Speer said Hitler was in a rage for two weeks after Munich.

00:05:49.600 He wouldn't even speak to his private staff, which was unusual for him.

00:05:53.700 And then it all came pouring out at a private social occasion.

00:05:57.060 He said, the German people have been fooled, and by Neville Chamberlain, of all people.

00:06:03.600 And what he was referring to was that Chamberlain, because he was the architect of a peace agreement, the German people staged a kind of anti-Hitler protest in the sixth year of his rule by cheering Chamberlain loudly whenever he appeared.

00:06:18.080 This infuriated Hitler was one of the reasons why I think he drew back from attacking Czechoslovakia.

00:06:25.400 So, as I was reading this, and you really kind of spell it out very colorful, the appearance of everything with Hitler was strong and militaristic and streamlined.

00:06:44.320 And, you know, Mussolini is there, the same thing.

00:06:48.400 And here comes a guy who kind of looks like a walrus and another guy who looks old and frail coming to the meeting.

00:06:55.560 Those two guys must have seen the English as complete things of the past and just weak.

00:07:08.120 Well, I think that that's true.

00:07:09.740 There was a great contrast in Munich between, you know, the fascists, the Germans, and the Italians, mostly quite young men, in their smart uniforms, and these dowdy, quite elderly civilians in their crumpled suits who've flown into Munich.

00:07:26.260 But appearances are a bit deceptive.

00:07:28.340 One of the other reasons I wanted to put Chamberlain in the novel is that he was a tough old bird.

00:07:34.700 And Winston Churchill said that about him, too.

00:07:37.600 He was a really dominant prime minister.

00:07:41.440 He bossed it and lauded it over his colleagues.

00:07:45.400 And he was quite vain and arrogant in his way and as determined on peace as Hitler was on war.

00:07:53.020 And Hitler, he drove Hitler mad because Hitler was not really interested.

00:07:59.820 The pretext for war was to the return of three and a half million Germans who'd been assigned to this new state of Czechoslovakia in 1919 after the First World War.

00:08:10.200 But that was only the pretext.

00:08:12.040 The reality was, of course, that Hitler wanted a war of conquest into the east, you know, the subject I cover in Fatherland.

00:08:21.120 Chamberlain was determined to keep Britain out of a war on this issue.

00:08:26.460 We didn't have a treaty with Czechoslovakia, but the French did.

00:08:30.920 So if Hitler had attacked Czechoslovakia, the French would have been legally obliged to go to Czechoslovakia's defense.

00:08:37.460 And the British would have felt obliged to stand by France.

00:08:41.240 So it would have been like the First World War with all the countries being dragged in.

00:08:45.220 Chamberlain wanted to avoid this.

00:08:46.620 So he actually flew to see Hitler, which was a sensational development, especially for a man in his 70th year.

00:08:55.160 And it was a grave mistake on Hitler's part to agree to see Chamberlain, because Chamberlain naturally asked him what were his grievances.

00:09:04.440 And Hitler told him.

00:09:06.100 And Chamberlain said, leave it with me.

00:09:08.540 I'll see what I can do effectively.

00:09:11.200 And he removed Hitler's pretext for war.

00:09:13.900 He said, well, if the concern is these three and a half million Germans into the Dainland, I'm sure we can arrange for them, where the majority is German, for those lands to be transferred to Germany.

00:09:26.060 And this is what forced Hitler, in the end, to back down.

00:09:30.560 Goebbels said, you can't fight a war on details.

00:09:33.980 And Hitler couldn't do it.

00:09:35.920 And so he missed that opportunity for war.

00:09:38.400 And at the beginning of the novel, I put this quote from Hitler in the bunker in February 1945, when he said, we should have gone to war in 1938.

00:09:49.020 September 1938 would have been the perfect time.

00:09:52.720 And throughout the war, Hitler felt he was fighting it a year too late because of Munich.

00:09:57.400 He'd wanted to invade France in 1939.

00:10:00.240 He'd wanted to invade the Soviet Union in 1940.

00:10:02.880 And instead, his timetable was 12 months behind.

00:10:06.100 And in that time, the British, and more particularly, perhaps the Russians, rearmed massively.

00:10:12.980 Yeah.

00:10:13.220 Have you seen the movie Darkest Hour yet?

00:10:16.540 Yes, I have.

00:10:17.420 What did you think of that?

00:10:19.180 I thought it was a good piece of entertainment.

00:10:21.280 I thought it was a brilliant performance by Gary Oldman.

00:10:24.300 Yeah.

00:10:24.500 Because I'm sympathetic to Chamberlain, slightly more than most people are, I know, I felt that it was unfair on Chamberlain because, first of all, who built the Spitfires that were fighting the Battle of Britain?

00:10:36.760 Chamberlain did when he spent 50% of British government revenues on rearmament in 1939, an enormous amount for a country of peace.

00:10:46.600 Right.

00:10:46.700 And also, Chamberlain, because of his experience dealing with Hitler, backed Churchill in rejecting any suggestion of listening to peace terms.

00:10:57.300 And because Chamberlain at that time was leader of the Tory party, his was the decisive voice.

00:11:02.260 And most people think that Chamberlain wanted to do a deal with Hitler.

00:11:05.460 The opposite is the case.

00:11:07.380 He supported Churchill very strongly and was the decisive voice on the 27th of May, 1940, at the Cabinet meeting where it was decided to not even hear what Hitler's peace terms were.

00:11:18.640 Hmm.

00:11:20.860 Is there, when you're looking at today's world and you're seeing everything that's going on, your job, and you've been so good at this, you look at history and you see missed opportunities or chances for things to have been different.

00:11:42.540 What do you think we're going to look back over the last 20 years and say, if this event was understood at the time, it would have changed things?

00:11:57.140 Well, I think, you know, history is a beguiling subject because it enables you to go back and see where people went wrong.

00:12:06.880 And another of the quotes at the front of my book is from a great British historian called F.W. Maitland, who said, you must always remember that what lies in the past once lay in the future.

00:12:19.600 Chamberlain didn't know that Hitler planned a Holocaust.

00:12:23.520 Nobody could foresee exactly how the Nazi regime would go.

00:12:26.660 You can only deal with things as they are, as they appear to you.

00:12:31.600 Obviously, there are huge forces at work in the world today.

00:12:35.540 That we are finding it very hard to even understand, let alone respond to.

00:12:41.720 I think they are a large degree to do with technology and the way that that is completely transforming our society,

00:12:49.960 destroying the assumptions on which most of us have built our lives.

00:12:54.840 It's a frightening time of change.

00:12:57.100 And often after a long period of relative stability, which we've had since 1945,

00:13:03.240 this leads to a kind of complete revolution.

00:13:08.360 In a way, the situation we're going through now reminds me rather of the period before 1914.

00:13:14.560 One feels that there's something big coming along.

00:13:17.040 How I would deal with that, I don't know.

00:13:20.340 I mean, part of the point of my Munich novel is that these two men, these two young men, are sort of trapped by history.

00:13:28.000 They can see they're heading to the chasm, the abyss, but there's nothing they individually can do,

00:13:33.380 although they try to do it.

00:13:35.300 And it feels that history has reached one of those points.

00:13:37.980 Do you know what I mean?

00:13:38.980 Yes.

00:13:39.740 That something big is happening.

00:13:41.560 Yeah.

00:13:41.820 And nobody can quite grasp it.

00:13:43.580 Yeah, you can feel it coming.

00:13:47.940 Robert, do you have a second?

00:13:49.060 Can you hang on while we take a quick break?

00:13:51.400 Yeah, absolutely.

00:13:51.980 Okay, hold on.

00:13:52.820 Robert Harris, the author of the book Munich.

00:13:56.580 It is out now.

00:13:57.680 It's a novel.

00:13:59.640 He's a tremendous writer.

00:14:01.060 If you've never read a Robert Harris book, you should.

00:14:04.760 And you can start with Munich, the novel.

00:14:07.840 Noted author Robert Harris, the author of the new book Munich, the novel.

00:14:13.060 It is about the Munich Accords and Neville Chamberlain and Hitler duking it out.

00:14:23.620 And what we kind of misunderstand, I'm finding out as I'm reading this, Neville Chamberlain's, you know,

00:14:30.720 we have peace in our day.

00:14:32.760 That was the Munich Treaty.

00:14:35.140 And Hitler saw that as a loss.

00:14:38.320 It's a great, thrilling novel that I think you really enjoy.

00:14:43.040 Robert is one of my favorite authors.

00:14:47.220 I fell in love with his stuff with Fatherland, which came out in the 90s.

00:14:51.400 And I'm a little upset that you can't buy on Kindle anymore.

00:14:56.300 But Fatherland, I've also read five or six of your books, Robert.

00:15:01.340 And one of them I want to talk to you about is the fear index.

00:15:07.440 A minute ago, you said, you know, you were concerned about technology and how that's going to change us.

00:15:13.220 And the fear index is AI gone crazy.

00:15:20.600 And it makes you look at AI in a completely different way.

00:15:24.980 Yeah, it's about a hedge fund manager in Geneva who used to work for the Large Hadron Collider

00:15:34.360 and who sets up an artificially intelligent algorithmic trading operation,

00:15:41.560 which, like Frankenstein's monster also in Geneva, goes out of control.

00:15:47.620 And I had a lot of fun writing it.

00:15:49.820 But as you say, it's a pretty frightening superstructure over the world, this financial trading.

00:15:59.580 Most of us don't understand it.

00:16:00.960 And we've seen, you know, in 2008, what happens when it gets out of control, how it affects all our lives.

00:16:07.940 And in a way, the world has never really recovered from the disaster of the complexity of the financial world

00:16:15.900 and the way, in the end, it caused so much trouble.

00:16:19.500 What is, as a writer, if I said to you, which one's the more believable scenario?

00:16:26.800 So, North Korea launches, Putin, through, you know, nefarious ways, kind of cobbles together the old Soviet Union

00:16:40.880 and is deeply embedded in all of our systems and turns us against each other.

00:16:47.520 Or financial doomsday that just kind of traps all of us into something ugly?

00:16:59.320 Well, I mean, you know, the second two could easily merge.

00:17:05.080 I think that that's what's frightening.

00:17:08.420 North Korea, I think, perhaps is, in a weird sort of way, you know,

00:17:13.760 there is a kind of mad, insane rationality to the North Korean regime

00:17:17.840 in that they would blow their own brains out if they launched any sort of attack.

00:17:21.920 And people generally aren't quite that crazy, even if they may look it.

00:17:26.920 But something like Putin that gradually shades into a conflict that gets out of hand,

00:17:32.940 that's much more the way things go in history.

00:17:35.160 You know, the Russian occupation of the Crimea was really the nearest thing we've seen

00:17:41.300 to the Sudetenland Crimea.

00:17:45.620 I was reading your book.

00:17:47.320 Did the West do anything? No, not really.

00:17:48.960 They simply put on sanctions, but that was it.

00:17:51.640 Yeah, as I'm reading Munich and he's talking about that,

00:17:54.140 and that's all I could think of, is this is exactly the same argument that Putin was making.

00:17:59.020 Yes, and of course, you see, for the Western governments,

00:18:04.880 and for most Western people, the Crimea seems to be Russia's backyard.

00:18:09.140 You know, you assume that it was really part of Russia.

00:18:11.620 Most people would have thought there's no appetite really to fight or suffer

00:18:15.940 over an issue like that, just as I don't think there was much in 1938 in Britain.

00:18:22.000 Bearing in mind it was only 20 years after the First World War

00:18:24.500 where the British alone had lost three quarters of a million men killed.

00:18:27.920 There was no appetite to fight over that issue.

00:18:31.960 And that's one of the things you've got to think about Munich, I think.

00:18:34.740 You've got to put it in the context of its time.

00:18:37.620 Chamberlain said he thought there would be a spiritual breakdown in Britain

00:18:40.840 if the ordinary people didn't see their leaders trying to do everything possible

00:18:44.700 to avoid another great war.

00:18:47.480 He destroyed his reputation trying to avoid it,

00:18:51.620 but I think in the end he did do a service, even if inadvertently,

00:18:55.000 in giving the country a year or more to rearm.

00:18:58.700 And also it gave it a moral superiority and strength

00:19:02.800 that Churchill was able to draw on, as we see in Darkest Hour.

00:19:07.020 The name of the book is Munich, a novel.

00:19:10.120 The author is Robert Harris.

00:19:12.280 Robert, thank you so much.

00:19:14.220 God bless.

00:19:14.780 It's been a pleasure. Thank you.

00:19:15.960 Thank you.

00:19:16.400 Bye.

00:19:18.760 This is the best of Glenn Beck.

00:19:22.060 So Netflix has a new movie out with Jack Black.

00:19:24.340 It's called The Polka King.

00:19:25.760 And The Polka King is an actual guy.

00:19:29.000 And I started looking into him and I thought,

00:19:30.860 we have to talk to this guy.

00:19:32.820 His name is Jan Lawan.

00:19:36.460 And he is from Poland.

00:19:39.060 He was born in Nazi-controlled Poland

00:19:43.560 and grew up under the Soviet Union,

00:19:45.900 came over here, wanted to make it big,

00:19:48.300 fell into a Ponzi scheme.

00:19:50.980 I should say he started a Ponzi scheme

00:19:53.480 and others fell into it.

00:19:55.920 He lived the high life, met the Pope,

00:19:59.100 Pope John Paul II,

00:20:02.060 had real notoriety in the polka world.

00:20:05.660 His music was nominated for a Grammy

00:20:08.840 and then he went to jail

00:20:10.240 where he was stabbed in prison.

00:20:12.480 He is out now

00:20:13.820 and has a whole lifetime of interesting stories.

00:20:20.020 Welcome, Juan Lawan.

00:20:21.940 How are you, sir?

00:20:23.440 Fine. How are you?

00:20:25.100 Very good.

00:20:27.040 So let's start with,

00:20:28.460 when did you come over here in the United States

00:20:30.820 and what was life like back in Poland for you?

00:20:34.040 Well, when you live in the communist regime,

00:20:38.720 the life is terrifying every day.

00:20:43.140 You couldn't trust nobody

00:20:45.280 and you're living always with the fear

00:20:48.900 that you're going to be punished for anything.

00:20:52.780 So life in the communist is definitely

00:20:57.240 a very negative, very depressing life.

00:21:02.200 So you came under,

00:21:04.220 at the height of the Cold War

00:21:05.760 with Ronald Reagan,

00:21:07.280 which must have been...

00:21:08.480 Yep, it's exactly it.

00:21:11.300 So you come over here,

00:21:12.800 you move to Pennsylvania

00:21:14.080 and you become the polka king.

00:21:18.180 Tell me...

00:21:18.880 Well...

00:21:19.680 Okay, the polka king,

00:21:23.540 you know, that it came along

00:21:25.060 because I guess your question

00:21:28.140 is how I went to that.

00:21:32.400 I learned that

00:21:33.780 nostalgia to Poland

00:21:36.340 for the people who came here

00:21:38.120 after the second war

00:21:39.520 and many of them

00:21:41.360 cannot go back to Poland

00:21:43.020 during the communist regime.

00:21:45.760 Many cases,

00:21:47.000 they will find out in jail

00:21:49.140 since they didn't come back

00:21:51.620 to Poland after the second war.

00:21:53.640 So that was the fear

00:21:55.460 on this

00:21:56.240 and they were all

00:21:58.340 just there for me

00:22:01.420 because I was start learning English

00:22:03.980 a little bit,

00:22:05.340 but I was speaking Polish

00:22:06.820 and then I...

00:22:08.640 Due to my education in Poland

00:22:11.180 in the theatrical school

00:22:13.440 and this,

00:22:14.240 I wasn't ready

00:22:15.580 for that kind of entertainment

00:22:17.460 with the polka and this

00:22:19.120 and I found that

00:22:21.200 when I turned

00:22:22.540 the Polish folk music

00:22:24.820 to polkas,

00:22:27.700 I gained lots of viewers.

00:22:30.980 I mean,

00:22:32.200 my concerts hall

00:22:33.940 and festivals,

00:22:35.080 they were full to their last seat

00:22:37.180 because they loved that

00:22:39.500 broken English,

00:22:42.680 Polish,

00:22:44.060 you know,

00:22:45.240 and that's the way it goes.

00:22:47.620 So you,

00:22:49.080 in the movie

00:22:50.980 with Jack Black,

00:22:52.020 you appear to be

00:22:53.440 a wide-eyed,

00:22:55.020 I love America

00:22:56.460 and I'm going to make it big

00:22:58.100 and it seems as though

00:23:00.460 you don't really know

00:23:02.020 what you're doing

00:23:02.900 is wrong

00:23:03.900 until later,

00:23:05.800 but you started

00:23:06.960 a Ponzi scheme.

00:23:09.580 Yes.

00:23:11.280 Tell me about it

00:23:12.460 and did you know

00:23:13.020 that it was wrong at first?

00:23:14.200 No,

00:23:15.420 not at all.

00:23:16.260 I went with my accountant

00:23:18.060 for the legal advice

00:23:20.960 and I was advised

00:23:22.720 that everything is fine.

00:23:25.000 A couple of days later

00:23:25.780 we went again,

00:23:26.640 everything is fine,

00:23:28.400 go ahead.

00:23:29.560 I wasn't told

00:23:30.900 I have to register.

00:23:32.500 That was the wrong thing

00:23:35.060 on the beginning.

00:23:36.880 So I feel free

00:23:39.540 to advertise.

00:23:41.640 This is perfect.

00:23:42.740 That's,

00:23:43.420 that's,

00:23:44.480 again,

00:23:44.980 how are I going

00:23:45.520 to build the empire?

00:23:46.700 Right.

00:23:47.000 And what were you,

00:23:48.080 what were you selling people?

00:23:51.260 Well,

00:23:51.920 he created the promissory note,

00:23:55.100 which I offered them

00:23:56.360 12%

00:23:57.200 and that was very easy

00:23:59.300 for me

00:23:59.820 on the beginning

00:24:00.480 to pay that

00:24:01.540 because

00:24:02.260 in Poland

00:24:03.460 that time

00:24:04.420 everything was penny

00:24:06.180 and in America

00:24:07.160 you sold

00:24:07.820 for tens of dollars.

00:24:09.600 So I created

00:24:10.320 the gift shop.

00:24:11.060 when you create

00:24:12.140 the gift shop

00:24:12.720 you have to,

00:24:13.320 you have to have money

00:24:14.900 to buy these gifts

00:24:17.000 which I didn't have nothing.

00:24:19.100 So people

00:24:19.840 who travel with me

00:24:20.980 to Poland

00:24:21.580 they saw

00:24:22.980 on their own eyes,

00:24:24.620 oh my gosh,

00:24:25.420 that doll

00:24:26.100 costs 25 cents here

00:24:28.000 and in America

00:24:29.080 I pay $20.

00:24:31.140 Jan,

00:24:32.220 you should buy Poland.

00:24:34.060 You should

00:24:34.800 get everything

00:24:36.040 to America

00:24:37.160 and you're going

00:24:38.000 to get rich

00:24:38.540 and we're going

00:24:39.200 to get rich.

00:24:40.260 Sure,

00:24:41.020 I go for it.

00:24:43.000 And that's called

00:24:44.300 start.

00:24:45.340 Of course,

00:24:46.180 later on

00:24:47.000 I learned

00:24:47.540 I'm not,

00:24:48.800 I'm doing

00:24:49.280 illegal things

00:24:50.400 that it's illegal.

00:24:52.580 Well,

00:24:53.060 I already have

00:24:54.200 huge merchandise

00:24:55.800 in the silver,

00:24:57.000 amber,

00:24:57.580 dolls

00:24:58.020 and everything

00:24:59.120 just to

00:25:00.580 sell that.

00:25:01.740 I wasn't

00:25:02.920 able to sell

00:25:04.180 when the accident

00:25:05.080 came over,

00:25:06.100 when the 9-11

00:25:07.740 came over

00:25:08.440 and all things

00:25:09.520 fall in parts.

00:25:11.020 My two musicians

00:25:11.840 get killed.

00:25:12.760 My son was

00:25:13.600 suffering

00:25:14.200 with terrible

00:25:15.080 things.

00:25:15.500 We all were

00:25:16.180 suffering.

00:25:17.080 So even though

00:25:18.360 I was told

00:25:19.060 don't do it,

00:25:20.760 I was keep doing

00:25:21.920 because when you drown

00:25:23.100 you will catch

00:25:23.840 anything.

00:25:24.980 So I did wrong

00:25:26.700 knowing that

00:25:27.560 I'm doing wrong

00:25:28.380 and I paid

00:25:29.000 a high price

00:25:29.640 for that.

00:25:30.220 Yeah,

00:25:30.360 you went to prison

00:25:31.280 for how long?

00:25:33.420 Almost six years.

00:25:34.900 And

00:25:35.480 you were stabbed

00:25:37.840 in prison?

00:25:39.780 Yes,

00:25:40.160 because

00:25:40.660 I should

00:25:42.100 never

00:25:42.720 finalize

00:25:44.300 in such

00:25:45.180 a terrible

00:25:46.260 prison

00:25:47.400 in Smyrna.

00:25:48.900 That's just

00:25:49.460 for people

00:25:50.640 who commit

00:25:51.540 violent,

00:25:52.920 terrible violence.

00:25:55.620 Most of them

00:25:56.260 they were killers

00:25:57.180 and

00:25:58.580 somebody like

00:26:00.260 me

00:26:00.740 with the

00:26:01.160 accent

00:26:01.760 with

00:26:02.440 lots of

00:26:04.480 to be

00:26:04.780 designed

00:26:05.200 with the

00:26:05.600 conversation.

00:26:06.300 They thought,

00:26:07.120 well,

00:26:07.860 he is such

00:26:08.480 a soft,

00:26:09.560 you know,

00:26:10.160 this guy,

00:26:11.040 this guy is

00:26:11.740 here for

00:26:12.220 something

00:26:12.800 what

00:26:13.260 we call

00:26:15.960 child

00:26:17.420 to do

00:26:19.840 to do

00:26:20.040 and they

00:26:21.840 get angry.

00:26:22.540 But that's

00:26:23.480 what they

00:26:23.800 say in

00:26:24.340 media.

00:26:25.060 My opinion

00:26:25.880 on that

00:26:26.420 is different.

00:26:27.800 Something

00:26:28.360 went wrong.

00:26:30.420 Somehow

00:26:31.020 somebody

00:26:32.240 did the job

00:26:33.500 and

00:26:34.200 the guy

00:26:35.700 who

00:26:36.000 really cut

00:26:37.220 my neck

00:26:37.780 left and

00:26:38.440 right,

00:26:38.880 he got 25

00:26:39.800 years on the

00:26:40.700 top of

00:26:41.760 his life

00:26:43.060 sentence.

00:26:43.880 So,

00:26:43.900 make no

00:26:44.340 difference

00:26:44.680 for him.

00:26:45.860 And why

00:26:46.520 he did

00:26:46.980 that,

00:26:47.560 I still

00:26:48.060 don't know.

00:26:49.240 I was

00:26:49.600 very nice

00:26:50.200 to him.

00:26:50.640 I bought

00:26:52.040 him coffee

00:26:52.620 in commissary

00:26:53.460 and everything

00:26:54.060 and keep

00:26:54.760 conversation

00:26:55.520 and somehow

00:26:57.520 he got me

00:26:58.980 when I was

00:26:59.500 sleeping.

00:27:00.320 When you

00:27:00.480 can't trust

00:27:00.960 a killer,

00:27:01.740 who can

00:27:02.120 you trust?

00:27:03.520 Thank you.

00:27:04.880 So,

00:27:06.280 Iyan,

00:27:06.760 now you're

00:27:07.400 out,

00:27:09.160 Jack Black

00:27:09.780 is playing

00:27:10.380 you in a

00:27:11.620 movie.

00:27:12.280 What does

00:27:12.800 the future

00:27:13.280 hold for

00:27:14.000 you and

00:27:14.360 what's your

00:27:15.840 attitude about

00:27:16.740 being here?

00:27:18.540 Yeah,

00:27:18.880 well,

00:27:19.540 before I go

00:27:20.740 further,

00:27:21.320 let me just

00:27:22.080 say that

00:27:22.660 believe me,

00:27:24.280 I'm very

00:27:25.060 sorry for

00:27:25.900 people who

00:27:26.920 get cut

00:27:27.460 in my

00:27:27.920 situation,

00:27:29.060 who lost

00:27:29.660 the money.

00:27:30.520 I will do

00:27:31.180 everything

00:27:31.700 possible

00:27:32.700 to supply

00:27:35.000 my restitution

00:27:35.940 as much

00:27:36.520 as I can

00:27:37.460 since I

00:27:39.040 am faithful

00:27:39.540 for that.

00:27:40.620 But,

00:27:41.660 I never

00:27:42.420 thought

00:27:42.940 that movie

00:27:44.840 going to

00:27:45.300 change my

00:27:45.960 life.

00:27:47.360 Jack Black

00:27:47.900 told me

00:27:48.400 that.

00:27:48.800 We were

00:27:49.140 talking for

00:27:49.720 six months

00:27:50.340 every night

00:27:51.020 for two

00:27:51.440 hours on

00:27:52.160 the Face

00:27:52.620 time.

00:27:53.840 And he

00:27:54.920 learned from

00:27:55.600 the day I

00:27:56.120 born.

00:27:56.840 How they

00:27:57.580 got

00:27:57.920 everything so

00:27:58.940 perfect in

00:27:59.620 the movie,

00:28:00.140 I still

00:28:00.660 don't know.

00:28:01.760 I did

00:28:02.400 send them

00:28:03.180 some of

00:28:04.300 my writing,

00:28:06.520 what I was

00:28:07.000 doing through

00:28:07.720 this years

00:28:09.300 in prison.

00:28:10.360 They learned

00:28:10.980 from that,

00:28:11.720 but I

00:28:12.080 think Jack

00:28:14.120 Black was

00:28:14.620 a great

00:28:15.160 influence to

00:28:16.180 the script

00:28:16.880 writers,

00:28:18.840 Maya and

00:28:19.500 Wally,

00:28:20.200 that they

00:28:21.020 did so

00:28:21.540 perfect.

00:28:21.860 because I

00:28:23.200 don't see,

00:28:23.940 maybe it's

00:28:24.540 10%

00:28:25.280 Hollywood,

00:28:27.560 you know,

00:28:27.980 that is.

00:28:29.180 But,

00:28:29.860 now,

00:28:30.540 the movie

00:28:31.080 gave me

00:28:31.520 opportunity.

00:28:32.660 I have

00:28:33.060 right now

00:28:33.980 in thousands

00:28:34.700 of very

00:28:35.980 nice comments,

00:28:37.000 of course,

00:28:37.720 the negatives

00:28:38.400 as well,

00:28:39.160 but next

00:28:40.160 to,

00:28:41.420 I should

00:28:41.860 say,

00:28:42.160 well,

00:28:42.400 if they're

00:28:42.720 writing to

00:28:43.260 me,

00:28:43.540 they're

00:28:43.780 probably

00:28:44.120 just

00:28:44.540 writing

00:28:45.140 positive

00:28:45.660 way.

00:28:46.080 but the

00:28:47.260 point is

00:28:47.900 that they

00:28:48.600 are asking

00:28:49.000 me right

00:28:49.480 now to

00:28:49.940 do the

00:28:50.280 concerts,

00:28:51.420 and I

00:28:52.300 would need

00:28:52.680 to do

00:28:53.040 that.

00:28:53.880 My music

00:28:54.520 director,

00:28:55.260 Steve Kaminsky,

00:28:56.400 who actually

00:28:56.880 saved the

00:28:57.720 music in

00:28:58.320 the movie,

00:28:59.280 we have,

00:28:59.660 in the

00:29:00.300 movie,

00:29:00.720 we have

00:29:01.100 top-notch

00:29:02.360 arrangements

00:29:03.180 for big

00:29:04.040 band polka.

00:29:05.040 It's not

00:29:05.440 like regular

00:29:06.220 dancing,

00:29:07.180 small thing,

00:29:08.320 okay?

00:29:08.880 I don't

00:29:09.320 know,

00:29:09.500 did you

00:29:09.800 saw the

00:29:10.160 movie?

00:29:10.640 I have

00:29:10.960 not yet,

00:29:11.400 I've seen

00:29:11.760 several clips

00:29:12.460 of it,

00:29:12.720 but I have

00:29:13.040 not seen

00:29:13.460 them.

00:29:13.600 I wish

00:29:14.960 you will

00:29:15.420 see the

00:29:15.920 movie.

00:29:16.080 I will,

00:29:16.520 I will,

00:29:16.860 I will

00:29:17.140 watch it.

00:29:18.460 So,

00:29:19.180 that is

00:29:20.140 my

00:29:20.500 cameraman,

00:29:21.640 John

00:29:21.960 Kutterba,

00:29:22.600 from

00:29:22.720 Writing

00:29:23.020 Video.

00:29:23.560 He supplied

00:29:24.680 them with

00:29:25.700 all of

00:29:27.120 the footage

00:29:27.740 which he

00:29:28.240 traveled with

00:29:28.900 me all

00:29:29.320 the time.

00:29:29.900 You're

00:29:30.180 going to

00:29:30.360 see that

00:29:30.780 in the

00:29:31.180 movie.

00:29:31.700 They did

00:29:32.100 everything.

00:29:32.800 I mean,

00:29:33.580 my gosh,

00:29:34.400 fantastic.

00:29:35.540 I hope

00:29:36.360 I'm going to

00:29:36.960 generate,

00:29:37.800 because I

00:29:38.260 don't need

00:29:38.680 money anymore.

00:29:39.500 I want to

00:29:40.000 give to

00:29:40.680 people who

00:29:41.960 suffer over

00:29:42.840 that,

00:29:43.200 and I'm

00:29:43.560 so sorry.

00:29:44.780 Believe me,

00:29:45.380 I am,

00:29:45.880 sick of

00:29:46.660 that.

00:29:47.800 Jan

00:29:48.200 Lawan,

00:29:49.040 it's a

00:29:50.720 pleasure to

00:29:51.140 talk to

00:29:51.480 you.

00:29:51.860 I'm sorry I

00:29:52.480 didn't watch

00:29:52.780 the movie.

00:29:53.120 I had plans

00:29:53.620 to watch it

00:29:54.140 with my

00:29:54.360 family this

00:29:54.820 weekend,

00:29:55.200 and something

00:29:55.800 came up,

00:29:56.240 so we

00:29:56.400 didn't watch

00:29:56.740 it.

00:29:57.320 But I'm

00:29:58.540 anxious to

00:29:59.120 see it.

00:30:00.260 You have

00:30:02.020 led a very

00:30:03.000 interesting life,

00:30:04.220 and I wish

00:30:04.540 you all the

00:30:04.920 best,

00:30:05.260 sir.

00:30:05.520 God

00:30:05.720 bless.

00:30:05.980 you know

00:30:07.040 what I

00:30:07.260 love about

00:30:08.280 living in

00:30:08.720 this time

00:30:10.600 period,

00:30:11.240 especially if

00:30:11.920 you saw

00:30:12.180 The Post.

00:30:12.740 Have you

00:30:12.900 seen the

00:30:13.100 movie The

00:30:13.380 Post yet?

00:30:14.600 I have

00:30:15.100 not seen

00:30:15.560 that yet.

00:30:15.900 It's really

00:30:16.300 good,

00:30:16.560 worth seeing.

00:30:17.760 But you'll

00:30:18.660 see in that

00:30:19.200 when they

00:30:19.500 release the

00:30:20.080 Pentagon

00:30:20.340 Papers,

00:30:20.900 the New

00:30:21.120 York Times

00:30:21.660 is shut

00:30:22.080 down,

00:30:23.000 and they

00:30:23.400 say you

00:30:23.700 can't

00:30:24.040 release

00:30:24.380 anymore.

00:30:25.720 There's

00:30:26.160 no place

00:30:26.480 to go.

00:30:27.160 If the

00:30:27.480 Washington

00:30:27.820 Post

00:30:28.180 doesn't

00:30:28.620 release

00:30:28.920 them,

00:30:29.100 there's

00:30:29.260 no place

00:30:29.600 to go.

00:30:30.480 Government

00:30:30.820 wins.

00:30:31.500 You

00:30:31.680 can't

00:30:32.020 release

00:30:32.460 the

00:30:32.680 papers.

00:30:34.660 It

00:30:35.260 seems so

00:30:36.040 odd that

00:30:37.580 that news

00:30:38.740 couldn't

00:30:39.140 come out,

00:30:39.740 but that's

00:30:40.700 the way

00:30:41.000 it was.

00:30:41.620 The

00:30:42.240 Monica Lewinsky

00:30:42.940 stuff,

00:30:43.360 it wasn't

00:30:43.780 for Matt

00:30:44.620 Drudge.

00:30:45.260 We may

00:30:45.820 not have

00:30:46.320 known that.

00:30:47.480 The

00:30:47.700 internet

00:30:47.980 changed

00:30:48.540 everything.

00:30:49.740 Back in

00:30:50.440 the 80s,

00:30:50.980 I remember

00:30:51.500 trickle-down

00:30:52.100 economics,

00:30:52.600 and it

00:30:52.980 was always

00:30:53.880 lampooned,

00:30:54.800 and you

00:30:55.060 could make

00:30:56.160 a case,

00:30:57.140 but you

00:30:57.420 could never

00:30:57.880 make a

00:30:58.860 media case

00:31:00.100 because you

00:31:00.540 didn't have

00:31:00.860 control of

00:31:01.480 it.

00:31:02.460 Going around

00:31:03.320 the internet

00:31:04.080 now,

00:31:04.620 Washington

00:31:04.980 Free

00:31:05.320 Beacon,

00:31:06.420 here's what

00:31:07.680 people said

00:31:08.480 about trickle-down

00:31:09.280 economics and

00:31:10.180 the president's

00:31:10.800 tax plan,

00:31:11.900 and what

00:31:12.280 actually happened

00:31:13.480 once it

00:31:13.960 was passed.

00:31:15.340 It feels

00:31:15.800 like you're

00:31:16.560 relying on

00:31:17.580 this tax

00:31:18.180 cut of the

00:31:18.940 corporations,

00:31:19.560 of the

00:31:19.800 wealthy,

00:31:20.300 to trickle

00:31:20.740 down.

00:31:21.160 Southwest

00:31:21.400 and American

00:31:21.800 Airlines,

00:31:22.420 both announcing

00:31:22.940 they're going

00:31:23.200 to give

00:31:23.360 $1,000

00:31:23.940 bonuses to

00:31:24.920 employees following

00:31:25.600 the tax

00:31:25.980 overhaul.

00:31:26.940 Wage

00:31:27.160 increases

00:31:27.600 don't follow

00:31:28.300 tax cuts

00:31:28.980 like this.

00:31:29.420 So the

00:31:29.600 world's

00:31:29.880 largest

00:31:30.160 retail are

00:31:30.640 giving its

00:31:31.260 U.S.

00:31:31.840 employees a

00:31:32.660 bonus,

00:31:33.500 a wage

00:31:33.920 increase,

00:31:34.620 and expanded

00:31:35.360 maternity and

00:31:36.240 parental leave.

00:31:37.720 So you're

00:31:38.120 creating a

00:31:38.680 huge tax

00:31:39.800 cut and you

00:31:40.860 might not

00:31:41.360 get wage

00:31:41.880 growth.

00:31:42.480 Capital One

00:31:43.320 Financial,

00:31:43.960 which just

00:31:44.420 confirmed to

00:31:45.240 CNBC that

00:31:46.060 they will

00:31:46.400 raise the

00:31:47.200 minimum wage

00:31:47.820 for all

00:31:48.320 U.S.-based

00:31:49.000 employees at

00:31:49.680 Capital One

00:31:50.200 to $15

00:31:50.940 per hour.

00:31:51.860 And anybody

00:31:52.860 who thinks

00:31:53.800 that this

00:31:54.640 corporate tax

00:31:55.540 cut is

00:31:56.080 going to

00:31:56.540 trickle

00:31:56.980 down to

00:31:57.820 lift wages

00:31:58.500 has a

00:31:59.000 staggering

00:31:59.620 ignorance of

00:32:00.840 how public

00:32:01.360 companies

00:32:01.800 function.

00:32:02.420 Wells Fargo

00:32:03.200 said it would

00:32:03.800 raise its

00:32:04.200 minimum wage

00:32:04.820 to $15

00:32:05.380 per hour.

00:32:06.280 I mean,

00:32:06.800 it's amazing.

00:32:07.960 I love that he's

00:32:08.600 just so sure of

00:32:09.560 himself on that

00:32:10.240 last one.

00:32:10.860 Well,

00:32:11.040 because you

00:32:11.540 know what?

00:32:11.780 They could be

00:32:12.380 sure of

00:32:12.820 themselves because

00:32:13.680 there wasn't

00:32:14.900 anybody that

00:32:15.680 would have

00:32:16.620 given that

00:32:17.640 information.

00:32:18.040 back in the

00:32:18.560 80s,

00:32:18.960 if CBS,

00:32:19.600 NBC,

00:32:19.860 or ABC

00:32:20.500 didn't make

00:32:21.920 those stories

00:32:25.560 about what

00:32:26.440 the companies

00:32:26.900 were actually

00:32:27.260 doing,

00:32:27.560 it didn't

00:32:27.900 happen.

00:32:29.240 I mean,

00:32:29.440 it was like

00:32:29.880 it didn't

00:32:30.280 happen.

00:32:31.260 Now you

00:32:32.040 have enough

00:32:32.560 outlets and

00:32:33.840 you have

00:32:34.780 control of

00:32:35.900 the media

00:32:36.380 yourself to

00:32:37.240 where you

00:32:37.880 can grab

00:32:38.420 those snippets,

00:32:39.260 you can edit

00:32:39.840 those things,

00:32:40.500 and you can

00:32:41.240 show, no,

00:32:42.060 this is exactly

00:32:42.840 what happens.

00:32:44.460 They have no

00:32:45.120 fear.

00:32:45.700 The liberals

00:32:47.080 with trickle

00:32:47.740 down,

00:32:47.960 economics had

00:32:49.200 no fear of

00:32:51.000 this turning

00:32:51.500 around on

00:32:52.080 them because

00:32:53.140 it never

00:32:53.540 has.

00:32:54.600 But now we

00:32:55.400 have the

00:32:55.680 internet.

00:32:56.340 It's interesting

00:32:56.640 too to see

00:32:57.000 these companies

00:32:57.540 take these

00:32:58.260 stands.

00:33:00.040 Normally,

00:33:01.140 companies,

00:33:01.900 even companies

00:33:02.540 that lean,

00:33:03.380 right,

00:33:03.820 don't want to

00:33:04.340 take stands

00:33:05.080 that associate

00:33:05.920 themselves with

00:33:06.620 Republicans publicly.

00:33:08.400 But this is

00:33:08.860 such a clear

00:33:09.600 win for

00:33:10.280 companies and

00:33:11.240 you know,

00:33:11.860 companies really

00:33:12.520 do this.

00:33:13.400 Yeah,

00:33:13.680 companies really

00:33:14.160 do this.

00:33:14.580 I mean,

00:33:14.700 I think people,

00:33:15.480 they want their

00:33:15.960 employees happy.

00:33:16.920 There might be

00:33:17.320 selfish reasons

00:33:17.980 for it,

00:33:18.320 right?

00:33:18.520 They want

00:33:18.880 their employees

00:33:21.020 happy.

00:33:21.740 They like the

00:33:22.520 PR of saying,

00:33:24.020 hey, we got a

00:33:24.500 bunch of extra

00:33:25.060 money and we're

00:33:25.700 going to distribute

00:33:26.520 that to the

00:33:27.440 people who work

00:33:28.480 for us.

00:33:29.460 There are some

00:33:30.220 selfish reasons

00:33:31.240 for it, but who

00:33:31.920 cares?

00:33:32.500 I mean, it's

00:33:32.780 great.

00:33:33.120 It's great that

00:33:33.580 people are able

00:33:35.220 to make plans,

00:33:36.440 long-term plans

00:33:37.420 now.

00:33:38.180 These are all

00:33:38.800 permanent changes

00:33:40.440 until, I mean,

00:33:41.640 permanent as

00:33:42.180 permanent as they

00:33:42.780 get with law

00:33:45.000 making, but

00:33:45.540 permanent changes

00:33:46.480 for corporations

00:33:47.300 and they are

00:33:49.020 able to really

00:33:49.860 plan for their

00:33:50.660 long-term, you

00:33:52.600 know, companies

00:33:53.540 well-being and

00:33:54.420 their employees

00:33:54.960 well-being.

00:33:55.500 This is a big

00:33:56.040 change.

00:33:56.660 I mean, it's

00:33:57.540 not the most

00:33:58.600 bold tax plan

00:33:59.560 we've ever seen.

00:34:00.540 It's not...

00:34:01.340 Imagine, imagine

00:34:02.740 what would have

00:34:03.680 happened had

00:34:05.160 they done a

00:34:05.720 flat tax rate.

00:34:06.660 Oh my gosh.

00:34:07.660 If they would

00:34:08.040 have done a

00:34:08.420 flat tax rate,

00:34:10.040 can you imagine

00:34:11.040 the money that

00:34:11.820 would have poured

00:34:12.560 into the

00:34:14.080 average family's

00:34:15.020 home?

00:34:16.120 Oh my gosh, yeah.

00:34:16.840 I mean, because

00:34:17.120 this is really...

00:34:18.080 It was really more

00:34:18.940 of a corporate

00:34:19.420 plan, right?

00:34:20.180 I mean, it was

00:34:20.600 not particularly

00:34:21.760 life-changing

00:34:23.820 when it comes to

00:34:24.660 the individual

00:34:25.200 side.

00:34:25.560 I'll take

00:34:26.140 anything, right?

00:34:26.740 I'll take any

00:34:27.240 dollar amount

00:34:28.040 you want to

00:34:28.400 give me of my

00:34:29.100 own money, I'll

00:34:30.360 willingly accept it

00:34:31.300 and act like

00:34:31.820 you're doing me

00:34:32.240 a favor.

00:34:33.540 You know, for

00:34:34.360 the corporation

00:34:34.860 side, it actually

00:34:35.500 is a really big

00:34:36.160 difference.

00:34:36.780 They no longer

00:34:37.620 have to...

00:34:38.300 I mean, they

00:34:38.640 don't have to

00:34:39.020 make these big

00:34:39.500 changes.

00:34:39.840 There's so many

00:34:40.220 people who said

00:34:40.760 it wasn't going

00:34:41.180 to be a big

00:34:41.560 deal because

00:34:42.100 their effective

00:34:42.620 rate was this

00:34:43.180 low anyway.

00:34:43.720 It's shown to

00:34:44.280 be a big

00:34:45.200 change for these

00:34:45.740 companies.

00:34:46.220 A big deal.

00:34:50.220 We should

00:34:51.020 listen and

00:34:51.720 respect those

00:34:53.000 who have

00:34:54.020 lived through

00:34:56.900 a mass

00:34:57.400 shooting,

00:34:58.360 especially after

00:34:59.580 they have

00:35:00.200 gained perspective.

00:35:02.440 Patrick was

00:35:03.160 a sophomore

00:35:04.020 at Columbine

00:35:04.720 High School

00:35:05.140 when Dylan

00:35:05.620 Klebold and

00:35:06.500 Eric Harris

00:35:07.820 massacred their

00:35:08.780 classmates.

00:35:09.980 He was one

00:35:10.460 of the lucky

00:35:10.860 ones.

00:35:11.240 He walked

00:35:11.780 away with

00:35:12.300 his life

00:35:12.740 that day and

00:35:14.160 he vowed

00:35:14.880 that he

00:35:15.380 would live

00:35:16.280 a life of

00:35:17.080 service because

00:35:18.460 God had

00:35:18.940 granted him

00:35:19.420 that blessing

00:35:20.100 of living.

00:35:22.060 So Patrick

00:35:22.460 went on to

00:35:22.960 join the army.

00:35:23.700 He served a

00:35:24.300 tour in Iraq.

00:35:25.300 When he came

00:35:25.740 home, he was

00:35:26.400 elected to the

00:35:27.040 Colorado State

00:35:27.740 House of

00:35:28.440 Representatives

00:35:28.960 where he

00:35:29.740 served his

00:35:30.320 constituents

00:35:30.940 since 2014.

00:35:33.840 Every year

00:35:34.800 since he was

00:35:35.400 elected, Patrick

00:35:36.360 has introduced

00:35:36.880 legislation to

00:35:37.760 remove the

00:35:38.400 restrictions on

00:35:39.280 concealed carry

00:35:40.180 in school.

00:35:41.880 In the wake

00:35:42.680 of the

00:35:43.120 Stoneman

00:35:43.800 Douglas

00:35:44.080 shooting and

00:35:45.020 the renewed

00:35:45.380 call for gun

00:35:46.040 control,

00:35:46.540 Patrick is

00:35:47.060 pushing his

00:35:47.620 legislation just

00:35:48.720 as hard.

00:35:49.660 Under the

00:35:49.860 current Colorado

00:35:50.420 law, anyone

00:35:51.120 who has a

00:35:51.760 concealed carry

00:35:52.380 permit may

00:35:52.960 bring firearms

00:35:53.840 onto school

00:35:54.600 property, but

00:35:55.560 you have to

00:35:55.920 keep them locked

00:35:56.560 inside their

00:35:57.160 vehicles.

00:35:57.680 That's a quote

00:35:58.100 from the law.

00:35:59.420 Patrick says

00:36:00.400 that doesn't go

00:36:01.260 far enough.

00:36:01.940 His act would

00:36:03.060 allow every

00:36:03.640 law-abiding

00:36:04.420 citizen who

00:36:05.120 holds a

00:36:05.660 concealed carry

00:36:06.320 permit the

00:36:07.160 right to defend

00:36:08.040 themselves and

00:36:08.980 others at all

00:36:09.740 times.

00:36:10.640 Patrick says

00:36:11.400 time and time

00:36:12.180 again we point

00:36:13.000 to one common

00:36:13.800 theme with the

00:36:14.480 mass shootings.

00:36:15.700 They all occur

00:36:16.680 in gun-free

00:36:17.580 zones.

00:36:18.580 As a former

00:36:19.300 Columbine student

00:36:20.280 who was a

00:36:21.200 sophomore during

00:36:22.200 the shooting on

00:36:22.980 April 20th,

00:36:24.640 1999, I will do

00:36:26.600 everything in my

00:36:27.300 power to prevent

00:36:28.080 Colorado families

00:36:29.100 from enduring the

00:36:29.860 hardships that my

00:36:30.720 classmates and I

00:36:31.580 face that day.

00:36:33.720 People are arguing

00:36:34.900 and we're going to

00:36:35.900 continue to argue.

00:36:37.380 More guns equals

00:36:38.520 more violence, but

00:36:39.680 they forget that the

00:36:40.560 vast majority of

00:36:41.540 guns are in the

00:36:42.020 hands of responsible

00:36:43.000 and good people.

00:36:45.100 There was a coach

00:36:45.900 that stood in the

00:36:47.180 way, used his body

00:36:49.860 to block.

00:36:52.600 If he had a gun,

00:36:54.900 how many could he

00:36:56.320 have saved?

00:36:58.540 He died a hero.

00:37:00.720 But many died

00:37:01.720 after him.

00:37:03.380 The reality is,

00:37:05.220 we are bringing

00:37:06.200 nothing to a

00:37:07.620 gunfight with evil

00:37:09.100 every single day.

00:37:11.280 Perhaps we should

00:37:12.460 have this conversation,

00:37:14.600 but we should listen

00:37:15.320 to all sides so we

00:37:17.400 can give ourselves

00:37:18.180 and our children a

00:37:19.500 chance with an

00:37:21.660 equal contender.

00:37:22.840 If you listen at all

00:37:39.200 to the program, you

00:37:40.260 know that I read an

00:37:41.900 awful lot and I can

00:37:44.320 go through two or

00:37:47.120 three books a week

00:37:48.900 pretty easily.

00:37:49.700 and I thought I

00:37:50.580 would devour this

00:37:51.760 book by Eric

00:37:52.800 Kurtlander, Hitler's

00:37:54.560 Monsters, but this

00:37:55.400 has taken me about a

00:37:56.660 month to get

00:37:57.520 through, mainly

00:37:58.820 because I get

00:37:59.640 sidetracked and

00:38:00.940 start looking up

00:38:02.400 the things that he

00:38:03.440 is pointing out

00:38:04.100 because you've

00:38:05.120 never heard any

00:38:07.000 of this before.

00:38:08.100 And it will give

00:38:09.520 you a couple of

00:38:10.900 things.

00:38:11.240 A new look on

00:38:13.440 what allowed the

00:38:15.660 Nazi movement to

00:38:16.780 really grow and

00:38:18.280 grow deep roots for

00:38:20.040 a while.

00:38:21.580 And also the fact

00:38:23.280 that, no, this was

00:38:25.420 not a Christian

00:38:26.060 movement, which a

00:38:27.160 lot of people like to

00:38:27.920 say, National

00:38:28.440 Socialist, Hitler was

00:38:29.720 a Christian.

00:38:30.400 No, no, no, that

00:38:32.620 was not a Christian

00:38:33.480 movement.

00:38:33.940 And the only

00:38:35.820 guy that has done

00:38:36.760 serious work on

00:38:38.580 the supernatural

00:38:39.320 history of the

00:38:40.320 Third Reich is

00:38:41.380 Eric Kurtlander.

00:38:43.060 And he joins us

00:38:44.180 now.

00:38:44.520 And I want to make

00:38:45.960 sure that you

00:38:46.680 understand that this

00:38:47.600 isn't some guy who's

00:38:48.580 just like, I just did

00:38:49.340 some research.

00:38:50.440 He has his PhD of

00:38:52.080 modern European

00:38:52.700 history at Harvard

00:38:53.600 from Harvard M.

00:38:54.920 M.A.

00:38:55.800 Modern European

00:38:56.520 history, Harvard

00:38:57.360 B.A.

00:38:58.460 history at is

00:39:00.360 at Bedouin

00:39:01.380 College.

00:39:01.960 I'm not familiar

00:39:02.660 with that one.

00:39:03.340 Bodin College,

00:39:04.120 sorry.

00:39:04.600 It's Belgian.

00:39:05.060 Bodin, yeah.

00:39:05.920 Belgian, okay.

00:39:06.900 Well, welcome.

00:39:08.260 I'm a huge fan of

00:39:09.500 this book.

00:39:10.880 And thank you for,

00:39:13.020 how many years did

00:39:14.140 it take you to

00:39:14.700 compile all this?

00:39:16.200 Well, thank you,

00:39:17.040 Glenn, for having

00:39:17.560 me on.

00:39:18.040 I really appreciate

00:39:18.980 it.

00:39:19.640 I watched the show

00:39:21.400 many years ago

00:39:22.100 when Robert

00:39:22.520 Galately, one of my

00:39:23.900 colleagues at

00:39:24.460 Florida State

00:39:24.960 University, was on

00:39:25.920 I think in a book

00:39:26.720 comparing Hitler,

00:39:28.540 Stalin, and

00:39:28.960 Mussolini.

00:39:29.540 And I appreciated

00:39:30.120 the way you brought

00:39:30.920 in.

00:39:31.960 academic historians

00:39:33.480 into your

00:39:34.400 conversation.

00:39:35.860 Thank you.

00:39:36.420 Thank you.

00:39:36.760 Thank you for

00:39:37.220 having me on.

00:39:38.520 And like many

00:39:39.420 academic monographs,

00:39:40.660 it took me a good

00:39:41.920 eight to ten years

00:39:42.780 from conception

00:39:44.180 to going to

00:39:45.220 archives and

00:39:46.120 doing the due

00:39:46.620 diligence, reading

00:39:47.460 other people's work,

00:39:48.520 and then finally

00:39:49.160 starting writing,

00:39:50.160 presenting it,

00:39:51.340 and eventually

00:39:52.020 deciding I had a

00:39:53.180 critical mass of

00:39:54.160 information to make

00:39:55.100 my arguments.

00:39:55.960 And it doesn't mean

00:39:56.960 that there isn't

00:39:57.880 going to be a

00:39:58.260 reviewer somewhere

00:39:58.920 that's like, well,

00:39:59.580 you know, you could

00:40:00.080 have looked at that

00:40:00.840 or this, but as

00:40:01.420 you point out,

00:40:02.320 it's pretty dense

00:40:03.120 already.

00:40:03.720 I mean, at some

00:40:04.200 point, you've got

00:40:04.880 to say, you're

00:40:06.300 ready, and get it

00:40:07.980 out there.

00:40:08.520 There's a couple

00:40:08.920 of things, and I

00:40:10.220 want you to kind

00:40:10.840 of lead this a bit,

00:40:12.200 but I want to ask

00:40:13.600 you a couple of

00:40:14.060 questions up front

00:40:15.320 that I think show

00:40:17.160 the depth of your

00:40:18.220 research.

00:40:18.800 One, you went,

00:40:21.300 and this fascinated

00:40:22.980 me, you went to

00:40:24.160 the detail of

00:40:25.580 looking at books

00:40:26.860 books that

00:40:27.160 Hitler had

00:40:27.920 collected and

00:40:29.000 had read, and

00:40:31.180 you looked for

00:40:31.820 things he

00:40:32.400 underlined, and

00:40:33.820 there were a

00:40:34.140 couple of

00:40:34.540 things that you

00:40:36.340 talked about, and

00:40:36.980 I can only find

00:40:37.620 one of them now

00:40:38.560 as I was looking

00:40:39.680 this morning, but

00:40:41.160 one that he

00:40:42.260 underlined was

00:40:44.380 horror always lurks

00:40:46.280 at the bottom of

00:40:47.140 the magical world

00:40:48.200 and everything

00:40:49.040 holy is always

00:40:50.800 mixed with

00:40:51.540 horror.

00:40:52.620 This comes from

00:40:54.000 a book called

00:40:55.140 Magic in 1923,

00:40:56.620 he underlined

00:40:57.700 this, and there

00:40:59.340 was also another

00:41:00.060 quote about

00:41:00.620 something about

00:41:01.340 a truly great

00:41:02.700 man has to have

00:41:04.560 the seeds of a

00:41:05.420 demon inside of

00:41:06.340 him.

00:41:07.060 That he did

00:41:07.560 underline the

00:41:08.140 other quotes from

00:41:08.940 a page that he

00:41:09.860 had underlined,

00:41:10.700 but he hadn't

00:41:11.180 underlined that

00:41:11.740 particular quote,

00:41:13.340 and I want to be

00:41:14.220 very clear about

00:41:14.900 this because this

00:41:15.380 is an important

00:41:16.260 methodological

00:41:17.020 point.

00:41:18.120 A fellow

00:41:19.000 historian, a

00:41:19.780 journalist who

00:41:20.360 writes history,

00:41:21.060 found the book

00:41:21.820 in the Library of

00:41:22.600 Congress where we

00:41:23.420 have Hitler's

00:41:24.640 Library, and it

00:41:25.960 seems to be

00:41:26.800 underlined and

00:41:27.960 annotated in the

00:41:28.780 way that Hitler

00:41:29.300 had annotated

00:41:29.900 other books.

00:41:30.900 We're not 100%

00:41:32.280 certain he read

00:41:33.260 and annotated it,

00:41:34.300 but he's the

00:41:34.920 most likely

00:41:35.440 suspect.

00:41:36.180 So I use this

00:41:37.080 book to represent

00:41:38.560 a kind of cultural

00:41:41.320 milieu in which he

00:41:42.240 may have been

00:41:42.640 thinking, because it

00:41:44.340 seems that he

00:41:44.940 read it, and then

00:41:46.060 I tie in other

00:41:47.360 sources that talk

00:41:48.240 about Hitler seeming

00:41:50.320 to be interested in

00:41:51.840 parapsychology,

00:41:53.360 magic, even if he

00:41:55.100 just thinks it's a

00:41:55.840 way to manipulate

00:41:56.420 people and not an

00:41:57.420 actual force in the

00:41:58.540 universe.

00:41:59.560 He clearly was

00:42:00.680 involved in that

00:42:02.200 kind of milieu.

00:42:03.160 That's the point I'm

00:42:03.920 making, and it does

00:42:05.060 appear that he

00:42:05.700 underlined 66

00:42:07.080 passages in that

00:42:08.360 book, but as

00:42:09.420 someone who is not,

00:42:10.360 I'm not a specialist

00:42:11.340 in handwriting, I

00:42:13.040 don't know for certain

00:42:13.960 that he did.

00:42:14.600 I just want to put

00:42:15.200 that out there.

00:42:16.060 So, Eric, the

00:42:17.360 other thing that I

00:42:18.340 thought would be

00:42:19.200 important to start

00:42:20.980 with to show the

00:42:21.940 depth of your

00:42:23.300 research, was

00:42:24.380 the, I mean, you

00:42:26.620 go back into the

00:42:27.260 1800s, and you're

00:42:28.180 really trying to lay

00:42:29.180 out the mindset of

00:42:31.200 Germans at that

00:42:32.840 time, and I was

00:42:34.800 not aware, and you

00:42:36.220 talk a lot about the

00:42:37.640 films that were

00:42:38.420 made, the silent

00:42:39.860 films in the teens

00:42:41.500 and the 20s, and I

00:42:43.080 went back, and I

00:42:43.680 don't remember which

00:42:44.180 one I watched, but I

00:42:45.060 watched one of these

00:42:45.760 silent films that you

00:42:48.660 pointed out in your

00:42:49.420 book, and it is

00:42:50.200 terrifying, and it

00:42:52.560 is, it, it, the, the

00:42:55.080 distortion of the

00:42:57.520 Jew into a monster,

00:42:59.880 or later Nosferatu,

00:43:01.620 the vampire, is

00:43:03.580 terrifying that that

00:43:06.000 went on so long

00:43:06.960 without the Nazis.

00:43:09.160 Right, so a number

00:43:10.400 of film scholars and

00:43:11.560 literary scholars have

00:43:12.460 argued that Weimar,

00:43:13.800 because of all the

00:43:14.660 trauma it went

00:43:15.400 through, the way

00:43:16.620 that people in

00:43:17.340 Weimar processed it

00:43:18.880 was by, through

00:43:19.740 horror, through

00:43:20.660 expressionism, through

00:43:22.380 very kinds of

00:43:23.860 avant-garde

00:43:24.560 artistic media

00:43:27.660 that were, you

00:43:29.680 know, channeling a

00:43:30.660 kind of return of

00:43:32.520 the repressed, right?

00:43:33.620 And I try to show

00:43:34.760 the ways in which

00:43:35.940 certain images,

00:43:38.100 monstrous images of

00:43:39.100 the other, right,

00:43:40.040 Jews, Slavs,

00:43:41.700 communists, were

00:43:43.040 portrayed in a, in

00:43:44.280 not an empirical way.

00:43:45.840 Here's what's going to

00:43:46.540 happen to the economy

00:43:47.460 if finance capital

00:43:49.340 does that, or the

00:43:50.580 communists do this,

00:43:51.600 but in a, in a

00:43:53.000 metaphysical or

00:43:54.280 supernatural way,

00:43:55.460 right?

00:43:55.780 And that's, and I'm

00:43:56.780 trying to show how

00:43:57.380 that culture precedes

00:43:58.600 the Nazis.

00:43:59.040 It doesn't mean

00:43:59.640 everyone who watched

00:44:00.880 horror movies was a

00:44:01.820 Nazi, but their way

00:44:03.260 of processing trauma

00:44:04.580 and crisis, I argue,

00:44:07.240 was influenced by a

00:44:08.340 kind of supernatural

00:44:09.140 thinking.

00:44:09.840 How much, how much

00:44:11.140 of this came from

00:44:12.600 the, the churches?

00:44:15.020 I know the churches

00:44:16.020 in the West, in

00:44:17.080 England, et cetera,

00:44:18.160 et cetera, many of

00:44:19.040 them were really

00:44:19.740 damaged because of

00:44:21.160 World War I.

00:44:23.200 And the people were

00:44:24.860 kind of shook from

00:44:26.940 that, and they kind

00:44:27.720 of started to see,

00:44:28.480 wait a minute, the

00:44:28.960 church is just really

00:44:29.680 kind of a political

00:44:30.480 organ here.

00:44:32.100 How much of this

00:44:33.500 return to magic in

00:44:38.080 Germany came from

00:44:39.680 the churches kind

00:44:42.660 of selling out or

00:44:44.120 not being what

00:44:45.100 churches should be?

00:44:46.880 That's an excellent

00:44:47.760 question, and you're

00:44:48.660 not going to want me

00:44:49.340 to get into too much

00:44:50.140 detail here, but what

00:44:51.540 I will say is I point

00:44:52.540 out in Chapter 1 that

00:44:53.580 Max Weber, the famous

00:44:54.720 sociologist, who was

00:44:56.140 alive at the time,

00:44:56.920 said, clearly the

00:44:58.240 traditional churches in

00:44:59.440 the wake of

00:44:59.940 hyper-industrialization,

00:45:01.240 even before World War

00:45:02.140 I, and science are no

00:45:04.560 longer providing the

00:45:05.700 kind of answers for a

00:45:06.860 lot of people, a lot

00:45:07.760 of younger people

00:45:08.640 living certainly in

00:45:10.280 cities that they used

00:45:11.220 to provide.

00:45:12.480 And yet, with this

00:45:13.740 disenchantment of the

00:45:14.960 world, right, people

00:45:16.240 still need something

00:45:17.240 higher than themselves.

00:45:18.460 They need faith in

00:45:19.160 something, and science

00:45:20.120 isn't going to do it,

00:45:21.280 and traditional religion

00:45:22.380 doesn't do it.

00:45:23.540 What's in between?

00:45:25.000 Well, New Age

00:45:25.980 religion, occultism,

00:45:27.960 these so-called border

00:45:28.880 sciences that claim to

00:45:30.020 explain everything, like

00:45:31.220 world ice theory, but

00:45:32.580 really can't be proven

00:45:33.660 empirically.

00:45:34.440 That's a vehicle for

00:45:35.680 faith.

00:45:36.860 Pulp fiction, science

00:45:38.020 fiction, and we see

00:45:39.380 that across the West

00:45:40.500 after the 1890s, and

00:45:42.100 especially after World

00:45:43.080 War I, with the

00:45:44.280 decline in traditional

00:45:45.240 religion.

00:45:45.800 We even see some of

00:45:46.980 the Catholic and

00:45:47.660 Protestant leaders

00:45:49.560 trying to tap into

00:45:50.540 that more grassroots,

00:45:52.000 supernatural way of

00:45:55.460 thinking.

00:45:56.280 But what I argue, and I

00:45:57.620 guess this is something

00:45:58.540 that, as you point out

00:45:59.780 in the intro, it would

00:46:00.560 be reassuring for you

00:46:01.820 as someone who

00:46:03.140 believes in the

00:46:03.580 Judeo-Christian ethos

00:46:05.620 in the West, it's

00:46:06.920 usually, to the degree

00:46:08.300 that they move away

00:46:09.140 from that, that they're

00:46:10.260 open to these new

00:46:11.100 ways of thinking.

00:46:12.640 I don't find a lot of

00:46:14.080 devout Catholics and

00:46:15.200 Protestants who

00:46:16.800 believe in world ice

00:46:18.640 theory, for example.

00:46:19.820 Right.

00:46:20.920 But they're compatible

00:46:22.400 because they're both

00:46:23.120 faith-based ways of

00:46:24.000 thinking, but I do

00:46:25.040 think you've got to

00:46:25.740 take a step away from

00:46:26.920 traditional religion

00:46:27.820 towards what I would

00:46:29.140 call border science

00:46:29.980 or occultism, in order

00:46:31.620 to find that as your

00:46:33.140 kind of new religion.

00:46:34.340 Right?

00:46:34.740 So you're right, that

00:46:35.760 while the churches may

00:46:37.220 have made certain

00:46:38.220 concessions to it, or

00:46:39.520 like you say, become

00:46:40.620 too political, I don't

00:46:42.080 think that Christianity

00:46:43.100 per se was a bridge to

00:46:44.780 this kind of thinking.

00:46:45.980 And I don't mean it

00:46:47.120 exactly that way.

00:46:47.920 I mean the absence of

00:46:49.600 that thinking led

00:46:52.520 people to go find

00:46:54.000 something that was

00:46:55.100 different and worked.

00:46:56.280 I want to have you

00:46:59.520 explain border science

00:47:01.500 and things like that

00:47:02.620 when we come back and

00:47:04.560 kind of get in and set

00:47:05.720 the groundwork of what

00:47:07.400 they actually believed

00:47:09.280 and what they used.

00:47:11.020 I mean the idea that

00:47:12.120 they were using

00:47:12.700 astrologers and divining

00:47:14.120 rods to find

00:47:15.360 submarines is amazing.

00:47:17.800 And eventually the

00:47:19.600 miracle weapons that

00:47:21.200 they were going after

00:47:22.060 and the reason why

00:47:23.600 possibly they did not

00:47:26.360 get the bomb

00:47:27.500 is an amazing

00:47:30.720 revelation.

00:47:31.620 And we'll get to that

00:47:32.420 here in just a second.

00:47:41.980 The book is Hitler's

00:47:43.280 Monsters, a supernatural

00:47:44.360 history of the Third

00:47:45.240 Reich.

00:47:45.620 Eric Kurlander is the

00:47:46.680 artist.

00:47:47.280 If you're a great

00:47:47.840 author, if you're a fan

00:47:49.360 of like those

00:47:49.880 incredible, crazy, you

00:47:52.840 know, documentaries

00:47:53.500 they've made on this

00:47:54.300 topic, this goes much,

00:47:55.300 much further.

00:47:56.080 Oh, much.

00:47:56.820 It explains it with

00:47:58.060 real credibility.

00:47:59.000 Yeah.

00:47:59.420 This is, this is

00:48:00.880 Indiana Jones and

00:48:02.720 the, you know, Holy

00:48:03.920 Grail and the

00:48:04.920 Last Crusade.

00:48:06.440 It is, it's, you

00:48:09.400 know, the Ark of the

00:48:11.080 Covenant and, and

00:48:12.840 Captain America.

00:48:13.680 But it's the real

00:48:15.040 stuff.

00:48:15.580 It's amazing.

00:48:16.840 We have Eric

00:48:18.580 Kurlander on.

00:48:19.580 He is the author of a

00:48:20.680 book, Hitler's

00:48:22.460 Monsters.

00:48:23.320 This is a serious

00:48:24.400 scholarly book about

00:48:26.000 the supernatural

00:48:26.440 history of the Third

00:48:27.500 Reich and, and what

00:48:28.540 they believed and

00:48:30.160 what they used.

00:48:32.420 Eric, help me out.

00:48:33.760 Let's get a couple of

00:48:34.840 definitions.

00:48:35.940 What defined the

00:48:37.440 occult?

00:48:38.340 What does that mean?

00:48:39.260 Is that devil stuff?

00:48:41.680 Right.

00:48:42.260 So I started out

00:48:43.540 thinking, oh, you

00:48:44.320 know, I'm going to

00:48:44.700 look at occultism,

00:48:46.300 whatever that means.

00:48:47.500 And then I realized

00:48:48.380 that occult is a pretty

00:48:50.000 specific meaning for,

00:48:51.480 for scholars.

00:48:52.700 It's things related to

00:48:53.600 demonology, witchcraft,

00:48:57.120 certain, what I later

00:48:59.660 call border sciences,

00:49:01.060 but really that are

00:49:01.940 linked to things like

00:49:02.700 astrology and dowsing

00:49:04.540 and doctrines like

00:49:06.320 eriosophy or

00:49:07.660 anthroposophy.

00:49:08.840 These are also things

00:49:09.920 that usually come under

00:49:10.800 the umbrella of

00:49:12.200 occultism, something

00:49:13.200 that's between religion

00:49:14.900 and science and, and

00:49:16.660 will help you uncover a

00:49:18.220 secret world or a

00:49:19.240 hidden world, right?

00:49:20.200 That's where the, the

00:49:21.280 term comes from.

00:49:22.640 Pretend, pretend I

00:49:24.000 read the book, but

00:49:25.680 still could not get my

00:49:27.140 arms around the

00:49:29.180 osophies.

00:49:30.860 Can you, can you

00:49:32.740 define those?

00:49:34.820 Excellent question.

00:49:35.920 And, and, and, and

00:49:36.560 again, these osophies

00:49:38.360 are larger doctrines,

00:49:39.780 which supposedly

00:49:41.000 explain the world in

00:49:43.220 ways that traditional

00:49:44.160 religion and science

00:49:45.200 can't because they

00:49:46.120 integrate both.

00:49:47.060 So theosophy, which

00:49:48.700 modern Blavatsky, a

00:49:49.960 Russian thinker in the

00:49:51.620 mid to late 19th

00:49:52.660 century came up with

00:49:53.700 is this idea that, um,

00:49:56.080 if you study the

00:49:56.880 religions of the East

00:49:57.900 and the kind of

00:49:58.980 practices of the East

00:50:00.480 and unite it with

00:50:01.320 Darwinism, um, and,

00:50:04.300 and evolution, you

00:50:05.860 can come up with a,

00:50:07.060 uh, syncretic doctrine

00:50:08.500 that explains all of

00:50:09.680 world history.

00:50:10.640 So she came up with

00:50:11.780 this idea of root

00:50:12.540 races, the most

00:50:13.580 superior of which, um,

00:50:15.300 lived in Atlantis, um,

00:50:17.120 millennia earlier, maybe

00:50:18.440 mated with

00:50:19.060 extraterrestrials, and

00:50:20.540 then these other

00:50:21.020 races, which had

00:50:21.820 various qualities, you

00:50:23.240 know, the early

00:50:23.800 theosophists were not

00:50:24.760 as explicitly racist as

00:50:26.480 the later anthroposophists

00:50:28.580 or areosophists,

00:50:30.540 obviously with Arian in

00:50:31.560 the title, but they all

00:50:32.420 believe in this idea of

00:50:33.380 root races, that, that

00:50:35.220 modern biology and

00:50:36.700 Darwinism makes sense,

00:50:38.460 but it's got to be

00:50:39.200 leavened with Eastern

00:50:40.160 philosophy and religion, um,

00:50:42.580 and that you can

00:50:43.060 understand the stages

00:50:43.980 of world history

00:50:44.780 through that, and if

00:50:45.880 you reverse engineer

00:50:47.100 everything, you can get

00:50:48.260 back in touch, both

00:50:49.620 spiritually and racially

00:50:51.080 with the, the great

00:50:52.560 root races of the

00:50:53.520 earlier period, and so

00:50:54.940 much of what they were

00:50:55.900 doing was having

00:50:56.800 seances and following

00:50:58.560 certain doctrines to,

00:51:00.180 to try to get back in

00:51:01.420 touch with humanity

00:51:02.320 when it was at its

00:51:03.100 highest point.

00:51:03.960 You can see why that

00:51:05.140 was attractive to some

00:51:06.220 central Europeans in the

00:51:08.200 folkish movement, the

00:51:09.300 more racialist political

00:51:10.760 movements and

00:51:11.380 anti-Semitic movements.

00:51:12.580 Because it, in a way,

00:51:13.780 justified their view

00:51:14.760 of the world.

00:51:15.720 So, Eric, um, I just

00:51:17.820 want to go back.

00:51:18.540 I was, I was interested

00:51:19.820 to read how much they

00:51:21.820 were into Eastern

00:51:22.660 religion, and I can't

00:51:23.660 remember, was it, was

00:51:24.860 it Himmler that carried

00:51:26.240 around the sayings of

00:51:27.240 Buddha in his pocket?

00:51:28.740 Uh, the, the Bhagavad

00:51:29.960 Gita.

00:51:30.880 It's not exactly the same

00:51:32.180 thing, but yeah, uh,

00:51:32.980 Himmler, Hess, Rudolf

00:51:34.500 Hess, the deputy

00:51:35.280 fuhrer, Walter

00:51:36.560 Daré.

00:51:37.640 These were, this, this

00:51:39.240 would not be something

00:51:40.280 that people would

00:51:41.120 expect.

00:51:43.580 No, but it makes

00:51:44.660 perfect sense when you

00:51:45.820 think about what is

00:51:46.600 their larger view of

00:51:47.480 the world.

00:51:47.720 Why do they use the

00:51:48.420 swastika, which is an

00:51:49.800 Indo-Aryan fertility

00:51:50.940 symbol, right?

00:51:51.820 Right.

00:51:52.400 Because in their mind,

00:51:53.820 coming out of this

00:51:54.680 19th century supernatural

00:51:55.920 imaginary, the first

00:51:57.360 chapter, they recognize

00:51:59.000 that the, the great races

00:52:01.220 and civilizations, and of

00:52:02.740 course, we don't have

00:52:03.500 scientific evidence for

00:52:04.500 this, but this is their

00:52:05.140 view of the world, all

00:52:06.640 came from these Indo-Aryan

00:52:08.220 races, which may have

00:52:09.980 developed in Atlantis

00:52:12.300 or what, or the

00:52:13.180 hyperborea, some

00:52:14.560 ancient Aryan or

00:52:16.200 racially pure

00:52:16.900 Atlantian civilization,

00:52:17.740 but at some point

00:52:19.060 because of a flood

00:52:20.040 or giant blocks of

00:52:21.340 ice, did migrate

00:52:22.460 east, thereby

00:52:24.100 populating India,

00:52:27.460 East Asia, Japan, and

00:52:29.560 the reason all these

00:52:30.440 superior civilizations

00:52:31.620 occurred is because of

00:52:33.360 the leadership of the

00:52:34.140 Indo-Aryans, for whom

00:52:35.500 the symbol of the

00:52:36.160 swastika, is the, you

00:52:38.240 know, and the religion

00:52:39.060 of Tibet.

00:52:40.000 Why Tibet?

00:52:40.720 Well, it's a high point

00:52:41.840 where in a flood, a lot

00:52:43.920 of the high priests of

00:52:44.880 Aryan religion could have

00:52:46.020 fled, and then they're

00:52:47.340 trying to re-inscribe

00:52:48.720 those ideas back into

00:52:50.180 their view of Nordic

00:52:52.140 race and religion in the

00:52:54.160 20s and 30s.

00:52:55.360 So that's kind of their

00:52:56.580 view of the world, so

00:52:57.540 it's not that odd.

00:52:58.640 They just skip over the

00:52:59.800 Slavs and Jews, right?

00:53:00.940 Because those, those are

00:53:02.300 subhuman races, or

00:53:03.400 Africa.

00:53:04.480 All right.

00:53:04.820 But Asia makes sense

00:53:06.300 to them.

00:53:06.840 We're talking to Eric

00:53:08.200 Kurtlander.

00:53:08.900 He is the author of

00:53:09.740 Hitler's Monsters.

00:53:11.240 It is a scholarly book

00:53:13.040 on the supernatural

00:53:16.480 leanings of the Third

00:53:19.280 Reich, and what was in

00:53:22.200 the society that made

00:53:23.620 them embrace Nazism, and

00:53:25.660 what did the Nazis use to

00:53:28.420 strengthen that embrace?

00:53:29.740 More in a second.

00:53:32.080 This is the best of the

00:53:33.440 Glenn Beck Program.

00:53:35.520 There's a book that is a

00:53:36.780 must read, but I warn you,

00:53:39.400 it's going to take you a

00:53:40.440 while just because it's so

00:53:41.700 fascinating, you will jump

00:53:44.060 out of the page and go,

00:53:45.140 wait a minute, I've got to

00:53:45.660 look that up.

00:53:46.820 It's called Hitler's

00:53:47.900 Monsters, Eric

00:53:48.940 Kurtlander, A Supernatural

00:53:50.660 History of the Third Reich.

00:53:52.200 This is a scholarly book.

00:53:53.780 This is not a, you know,

00:53:55.100 this is not pulp fiction.

00:53:56.700 It is a deep dive and

00:54:02.600 well-documented on what

00:54:04.660 the Nazis believed and

00:54:06.380 what they did, and Eric,

00:54:08.160 I want to clarify one

00:54:12.540 thing with you that I

00:54:13.460 didn't walk away knowing

00:54:15.480 for sure, and maybe you

00:54:17.740 don't know the answer.

00:54:19.200 How much of this did they

00:54:20.880 believe or make a pact with,

00:54:23.180 and how much was just

00:54:25.080 being used?

00:54:27.320 That became a central

00:54:29.380 question for me as I was

00:54:30.660 going through different

00:54:32.340 sources.

00:54:32.940 So one thing I can say,

00:54:34.720 Heinrich Himmler, Rudolf

00:54:36.420 Hess, believed, truly

00:54:38.960 believed in a lot of these

00:54:40.240 different doctrines, border

00:54:41.640 sciences like

00:54:42.700 parapsychology,

00:54:44.900 dowsing, astrology.

00:54:46.860 They truly believed that if

00:54:48.040 you did it in a scientific

00:54:49.100 way, you could glean answers

00:54:51.240 that mainstream science

00:54:52.600 and religion would not

00:54:53.680 give you.

00:54:54.300 So he was looking into

00:54:55.460 the, Himmler was looking

00:54:57.320 into the Holy Grail.

00:54:59.060 He was, at the end, he

00:55:00.560 was, he was, I guess you

00:55:01.860 could credit this to

00:55:03.100 Tesla, but I'm not sure if

00:55:05.560 he credited it more to

00:55:06.860 Tesla or to Thor's hammer.

00:55:09.020 I mean, which, which was

00:55:11.140 it?

00:55:11.320 Was it Tesla or was it, he

00:55:13.120 believed the Thor hammer

00:55:14.800 electricity in the air?

00:55:16.580 We have the, I mean,

00:55:18.420 Peter Langerish, one of the

00:55:19.820 greatest historians of the

00:55:21.220 Third Reich and the

00:55:22.480 Holocaust and other sources

00:55:24.560 both corroborate him asking

00:55:27.120 his acolytes to look into

00:55:30.240 whether the energies that we

00:55:32.260 associate with Thor's hammer

00:55:33.900 can be somehow harnessed, that

00:55:36.000 maybe they're not traditional

00:55:37.700 scientific energies, but

00:55:40.420 something more occult or hidden.

00:55:43.800 And that's why certain of the

00:55:45.380 gods had certain powers.

00:55:47.560 He thought he was the

00:55:48.280 reincarnation of Otto the

00:55:50.380 Great, or Henry the

00:55:51.580 Fowler, I'm sorry, one of the

00:55:52.840 great medieval German

00:55:55.100 princes.

00:55:56.340 Many people have noted

00:55:57.540 Himmler's actual investment in

00:55:59.280 these ideas, as well as

00:56:00.400 Hess.

00:56:00.980 What I find, though, and

00:56:02.200 that's where the real debate

00:56:04.100 comes, is that many other

00:56:05.320 Nazis, Otto Ohlendorf, who led

00:56:07.100 the Einsatzgruppen to kill

00:56:08.480 thousands of Jews, he was

00:56:10.100 seen as a kind of one of these

00:56:11.480 technocrats, highly educated.

00:56:13.800 Turns out he was pushing

00:56:15.140 biodynamic agriculture and

00:56:18.200 anthroposophic, which is an

00:56:20.080 occult doctrine, approaches to

00:56:22.220 the world as a kind of, not a

00:56:24.060 substitute religion, but as

00:56:25.260 something that could unite

00:56:27.020 religion and science in the

00:56:28.700 Third Reich.

00:56:29.340 He's not normally associated with

00:56:30.960 those ideas.

00:56:32.060 Hitler had a douser in the

00:56:33.380 Reich Chancellery to look for

00:56:34.540 cancer-causing death rays, and

00:56:37.400 gave an honorary degree to one of

00:56:39.360 the progenitors of world ice

00:56:40.820 theory.

00:56:41.180 Some people, some in the Third

00:56:44.840 Reich said that they found

00:56:46.180 Mussolini through divining rods

00:56:48.420 or dousing over a map, and you

00:56:51.500 document that really well.

00:56:53.940 Did Hitler believe that stuff?

00:56:57.160 So, I would say Hitler is, he's

00:57:00.160 perfectly representative of the

00:57:02.080 Nazi movement and maybe Austro-German

00:57:05.040 society.

00:57:05.660 He's right in the middle.

00:57:06.980 He clearly believed in some of

00:57:08.740 these doctrines, because he'd

00:57:10.120 grown up with them.

00:57:11.180 And he didn't find traditional

00:57:12.680 Catholicism compelling, and he

00:57:14.660 didn't embrace modern science

00:57:16.440 because he considered it a Jewish

00:57:17.860 science and was too empirical.

00:57:20.220 But he wasn't as invested as some

00:57:22.780 other Nazis were, like Himmler

00:57:24.460 or Hess.

00:57:25.300 On the other hand, there were a few

00:57:26.540 Nazis, like Heydrich.

00:57:28.580 He's one of the only leaders I can

00:57:29.880 find who almost never shows

00:57:31.380 authentic investment in any of

00:57:33.120 these ideas, and wants to combat

00:57:35.120 them as another form of

00:57:36.660 sectarianism.

00:57:38.020 So he doesn't care what religion,

00:57:39.340 occult, or philosophical doctrine

00:57:41.780 you have, whether you're a liberal,

00:57:43.740 communist, or even a conservative.

00:57:45.820 If you're not a Nazi, that's

00:57:47.800 potentially a problem.

00:57:49.060 So Heydrich goes after occultists.

00:57:51.740 But many of the other leaders who

00:57:53.840 claim they don't like the occult, like

00:57:55.400 Rosenberg or Himmler, actually just

00:57:57.560 don't like people who practice it in a

00:58:00.020 way that challenges their beliefs.

00:58:02.240 The minute, by the way, this is the

00:58:03.860 problem with a lot of religion, right?

00:58:06.260 People argue that they have the true

00:58:08.020 faith and the true method or path to

00:58:11.520 the Lord, right?

00:58:12.440 So what you see in the Third Reich, much

00:58:14.100 like occultism more generally, is

00:58:16.000 claims that they're doing it

00:58:17.220 scientifically.

00:58:18.440 They understand it.

00:58:19.760 These other people are charlatans.

00:58:21.660 And many historians, when they saw

00:58:23.200 that superficially, who weren't

00:58:24.500 particularly interested in research,

00:58:25.800 you'd say, oh, they're hostile to

00:58:27.380 occultism.

00:58:28.380 And I point out, they're not hostile to

00:58:29.940 it epistemologically.

00:58:31.920 They're hostile to anyone who

00:58:33.480 practices it in a way that isn't

00:58:34.700 compatible with their racial ideas,

00:58:37.220 their politics, their propaganda.

00:58:39.840 It actually worked to the West's

00:58:43.960 advantage to some degree.

00:58:47.440 The SS Obergruppenfuhrer

00:58:50.660 Kammler, who was really only known

00:58:56.020 for making the crematoriums in

00:58:58.520 Auschwitz more effective, was the

00:59:01.240 replacement for von Braun in the

00:59:03.540 rocket science department, because,

00:59:06.320 if I'm not mistaken, wasn't it

00:59:07.620 because of horoscopes or astrology?

00:59:11.460 We can't confirm it's because of

00:59:13.380 astrology.

00:59:13.940 What we can confirm is that Himmler

00:59:15.440 preferred to have SS men who shared

00:59:18.400 some of his approaches to science and

00:59:20.380 politics and race theory around him

00:59:22.740 more than tried-and-true

00:59:25.340 professionals like von Braun.

00:59:27.260 And that's why Speer, as you see in my

00:59:29.480 chapter, the primary sources I have

00:59:31.760 from the archives are Speer reminding

00:59:33.580 all the other Nazi leaders, we

00:59:35.400 aren't going to come up with miracle

00:59:36.780 weapons that are going to decide the

00:59:38.040 war.

00:59:38.820 This is propaganda.

00:59:40.380 And then you have Goebbels and Himmler

00:59:42.440 and Kammler saying, oh no, we can do

00:59:44.040 this with enough will, with enough

00:59:47.640 faith, if we harness the right energies.

00:59:50.760 And clearly that tips over into the

00:59:53.280 realm of border science very often.

00:59:55.660 And it's not empirical.

00:59:57.020 It's not something that's actually

00:59:58.700 feasible.

00:59:59.980 Towards the end, it seemed to really

01:00:01.900 work to the West's advantage again.

01:00:04.580 Their race theory and their belief in

01:00:07.500 these, what you call, border sciences.

01:00:10.920 I was really interested in what you

01:00:15.680 said, that one of the reasons why we

01:00:17.320 think that they weren't farther along

01:00:18.880 with the nuke is because they saw that

01:00:21.320 as a Jewish science.

01:00:23.440 And so it was a little underplayed.

01:00:25.300 And the border sciences, the miracle

01:00:28.440 weapons, were looked at with possible

01:00:32.940 equal shot of it working.

01:00:36.720 Do I have that right?

01:00:38.260 Exactly.

01:00:38.960 You have two parallel things going on.

01:00:41.300 Obviously, they lose a lot of the best

01:00:42.800 scientists who may have been, quote

01:00:44.860 unquote, liberal or Jewish, right?

01:00:47.080 Many who stay are still top scientists.

01:00:49.360 Heisenberg, Max Planck, right?

01:00:51.940 Von Braun.

01:00:52.580 But they're working in a pair.

01:00:55.260 They're doing their they're carrying

01:00:57.540 out traditional science, mainstream

01:00:59.420 science.

01:01:00.220 And then you've got a lot of Nazis led

01:01:02.180 by Himmler, who's got this whole

01:01:03.600 institute, the Ananerba, the Institute

01:01:05.420 for Ancestral Research, who's who's

01:01:07.640 frustrated.

01:01:08.340 They don't want to work with his

01:01:09.320 scientists who are operating based on

01:01:11.980 folklore and Indo-Aryan race theory

01:01:14.420 and want to experiment with hidden

01:01:16.440 electrical energies.

01:01:17.440 And the one thing I'm certain of is

01:01:20.720 that the incompatibility of those two

01:01:22.940 cultures certainly undermined some of

01:01:25.560 their strategic thinking.

01:01:26.880 We know that Hitler and Himmler, because

01:01:28.660 they read science fiction, liked the

01:01:30.760 idea of rockets and and, you know,

01:01:33.600 ships and jets and didn't think in terms

01:01:36.260 of these more abstruse ideas like

01:01:38.700 nuclear physics, which not only is

01:01:40.880 something you can't concretely hold or

01:01:42.760 build, but it's something they associate

01:01:44.820 with abstract thinking of Jews and

01:01:46.960 and liberals and communists.

01:01:48.960 So God, thank God.

01:01:50.900 But but in a way now, I didn't I can't

01:01:54.100 quantify a lot of the things I bring up

01:01:55.920 in the book, as scholarly as it is, are

01:01:57.840 things that someone else is a specialist

01:01:59.700 in these areas, armaments, military

01:02:01.460 history, should really pursue and see to

01:02:03.640 what degree this really did undermine

01:02:06.100 their war effort.

01:02:06.960 I suggest it did.

01:02:08.720 Speer suggests it does.

01:02:11.000 But, you know, that that's a whole other

01:02:13.080 line of research.

01:02:14.100 Yeah, Eric, I could spend hours with

01:02:17.400 you.

01:02:17.580 I'd love to have you I'd love to have

01:02:19.140 you back because we haven't gotten into

01:02:20.580 some of the miracle weapons and the

01:02:22.520 bell, which, you know, the flying

01:02:25.640 saucer and anti-gravity stuff that they

01:02:28.100 supposedly were working on, but we're

01:02:29.680 really not sure if they were.

01:02:32.560 I'd love to continue our conversation on

01:02:34.640 that.

01:02:34.980 I do want to switch gears because you

01:02:36.960 wrote another book, which I have not

01:02:38.520 read.

01:02:39.380 It is your first book.

01:02:40.760 And let's see if I have it.

01:02:42.180 The Price of Exclusion, Ethnicity, National

01:02:46.940 Identity and the Decline of German

01:02:48.620 Liberalism.

01:02:51.360 Just based on the title, I have a

01:02:54.360 feeling we would have a lot to learn

01:02:55.920 from that in today's world.

01:02:57.560 We would.

01:02:59.520 And the second book, Living with

01:03:01.060 Hitler, Liberals in the Third Reich, which

01:03:03.420 I think you'd appreciate most of all.

01:03:06.880 We have slightly different political

01:03:08.340 views, but I think you'll find the

01:03:09.720 arguments in that book about the way that

01:03:11.800 progressives kind of sold out to

01:03:14.660 fascism, not because they were fascist,

01:03:17.120 but because they saw certain continuities that

01:03:20.720 made accommodation possible.

01:03:23.300 I think you'd find that interesting.

01:03:26.480 Eric, I don't I don't want to turn you

01:03:27.860 political, but if you had any historic

01:03:30.020 milestones that would be important, there's

01:03:33.840 CPAC announced that they are having the

01:03:37.280 National Front speak from France, which is

01:03:40.060 a national socialist party.

01:03:42.060 It is.

01:03:42.640 And and I think they're doing it because

01:03:47.940 they'll say there's lots of things that we

01:03:49.760 do have in common and we don't have to take

01:03:52.040 that.

01:03:52.520 And this is a big movement that is happening

01:03:54.840 all around.

01:03:56.340 And any many lessons from history?

01:04:00.460 Well, this is and if anything unites the

01:04:03.160 three books I've written, which have been

01:04:04.540 written in a time when I would argue our

01:04:06.980 liberal so-called liberal parties have moved

01:04:08.920 to the right on socioeconomic issues.

01:04:11.640 And then in other ways, embrace values, issues,

01:04:14.520 value fight fights over values.

01:04:16.160 And our right has done the same thing.

01:04:18.740 What you see happening is an unwillingness

01:04:23.200 for very we would might we could maybe both

01:04:25.340 agree that it's the role of Wall Street and

01:04:27.780 government elites who don't want to fight it

01:04:30.840 out over the actual empirical realities of how

01:04:33.600 do you get the best health care or the best tax

01:04:35.680 policy?

01:04:36.140 They fight it out over ideology and values and

01:04:40.620 those values have moved more and more towards

01:04:42.740 a what I would argue the populist right.

01:04:45.500 So how do you win elections in America and

01:04:47.540 France and the Netherlands now?

01:04:49.260 You claim you're going to protect people in

01:04:51.260 ways that can never quite be explained from

01:04:54.200 global forces, other ethnicities, religions,

01:04:57.780 terrorism, economic forces that both parties used

01:05:01.360 to embrace.

01:05:01.920 Right.

01:05:02.380 Trade.

01:05:03.420 Those are dangerous.

01:05:04.740 And this, of course, moves both parties,

01:05:07.040 but obviously our right wing more than our what

01:05:10.020 I'd now call our center towards what we used to

01:05:12.520 call what we now call the alt-right, but we used

01:05:15.460 to call fascism.

01:05:16.560 And that's very dangerous.

01:05:18.160 That's especially in America.

01:05:19.920 You could always trust conservatives to defend the

01:05:22.220 Constitution, to be at least classical liberals.

01:05:25.080 Right.

01:05:26.140 And as you're pointing out, you can't always trust

01:05:28.580 that anymore.

01:05:29.220 And if our so-called liberals have to be the

01:05:31.760 constitutional conservatives, we're in trouble.

01:05:35.700 Right.

01:05:36.440 They're the interventionists.

01:05:37.840 Right.

01:05:38.040 They're the ones.

01:05:38.740 The progressives always want to tear down the

01:05:41.160 Constitution or change it.

01:05:42.460 And now they're the ones defending the FBI and the

01:05:44.520 Constitution.

01:05:45.340 We have a constitutional crisis.

01:05:47.080 We have a political cultural crisis.

01:05:48.620 I think both traditional conservatives and so-called

01:05:51.680 liberals or progressives could agree on this.

01:05:53.560 And the lessons of history from the 20s and 30s are

01:05:56.460 scary ones about the way this happens.

01:06:00.220 Eric, I'd love to talk to you again.

01:06:01.980 Thank you so much.

01:06:03.140 And thank you for the really hard work.

01:06:05.660 I mean, I've read a lot of books, and I don't think

01:06:08.920 I've read one that I think took more hard work than

01:06:11.340 this.

01:06:12.120 This was turning over every stone.

01:06:14.080 And thank you for your hard work.

01:06:15.240 One last question.

01:06:16.260 Would you definitely or would you definitively say the

01:06:19.980 National Socialist Movement of Germany was not a

01:06:23.420 Christian movement?

01:06:25.760 When you're talking about a country of 80 million people

01:06:28.220 and 20 or 30 million who supported the Nazis, obviously

01:06:32.400 lots of Christians saw something in Nazism, whether it's

01:06:36.680 extreme nationalism, anti-Semitism, Lutheran kind of

01:06:41.080 patriotism.

01:06:42.060 Sure.

01:06:42.280 But when it comes to the leaders, and here's where I feel

01:06:45.720 I'm on solid ground, those leaders were frustrated by

01:06:48.580 traditional Christianity, which they linked to Judaism and

01:06:52.240 to universalism and to a world beyond the here and now, which

01:06:57.480 they saw as not helpful in creating a racial ancestor

01:07:00.460 worshiping blood and soil movement.

01:07:02.600 That's why they liked Shinto and Hinduism and Buddhism, whether

01:07:06.760 they interpreted those religions properly or not.

01:07:09.080 They saw them as more compatible with creating a religion of

01:07:12.960 the here and now.

01:07:14.600 Eric, thank you.

01:07:15.100 And so in that, I would say they weren't, the leaders at

01:07:17.880 least, were not Christians by any conventional sense of the

01:07:20.120 word.

01:07:20.460 No.

01:07:20.500 Thank you very much, Eric.

01:07:21.600 Hold on, if you would.

01:07:22.500 I'd like to talk to you a bit.

01:07:26.980 Hitler's Monsters is the book, A Supernatural History to the

01:07:29.800 Third Reich.

01:07:30.340 Eric Kurlander is the artist.

01:07:32.300 I'm back on again.

01:07:33.240 There's so much to go through in this.

01:07:35.140 I mean, I want to talk to him about all the miracle stuff.

01:07:37.620 The Bell.

01:07:38.700 Did you even know what The Bell is?

01:07:40.980 It is.

01:07:41.760 Just look it up.

01:07:42.920 Let's just look up Nazi Bell.

01:07:46.540 Never heard of it.

01:07:47.720 Never heard of it.

01:07:49.260 And it's fascinating.

01:07:50.500 Whether it happened or not, I don't know.

01:07:55.500 So what do you think, Stu?

01:07:59.240 I mean, it's fascinating.

01:08:00.260 I'm a, as you are, and as several people around here are, just

01:08:05.480 real nerds when it comes to learning about that era, because

01:08:09.680 it's just fascinating that any of that happened.

01:08:12.260 I mean, obviously, first and foremost, horrifying.

01:08:15.880 Horrifying.

01:08:16.160 But then beyond that, it's just the fact that these people somehow

01:08:19.020 got power and did all this crazy crap with it is just fascinating

01:08:22.680 to me.

01:08:23.120 We should bring him in and then invite people to come and just, you

01:08:27.360 know, come and just listen to him.

01:08:28.880 Maybe spend a weekend with him.

01:08:31.140 I guess I've done some research off of this book.

01:08:34.520 Not research, research, but just looking up some of the stuff that he

01:08:38.180 Googled all these books.

01:08:39.200 Oh, my gosh.

01:08:40.460 And it's fascinating.

01:08:43.460 You watch some of the movies from the early 1920s in Germany, and all of a

01:08:48.660 sudden, so much just starts to make sense to you, and you're like, oh, my

01:08:53.300 gosh.

01:08:54.560 They never saw it coming.

01:08:57.020 They never saw it coming.

01:08:59.580 So the name of the book, again, is Hitler's Monsters, available in

01:09:04.140 bookstores everywhere.

01:09:09.940 Glenn Beck.

01:09:11.980 Mercury.

01:09:14.920 Climate change isn't just bad for the environment.

01:09:18.020 It is bad now for the womb.

01:09:21.300 Yesterday, the New York Times ran a story highlighting women who claim their

01:09:25.700 decision to have children is directly influenced by climate change.

01:09:30.060 They had an example of a woman named Sarah.

01:09:32.640 She considered having another child, but that would mean moving into a bigger

01:09:35.360 house, and that's further from her job.

01:09:38.180 She's not sure she can justify the environmental impact for a larger home and a

01:09:43.960 longer commute.

01:09:44.840 Allison, she was in the Times.

01:09:49.060 She's concerned about the apocalyptic future of extreme weather.

01:09:52.440 She said, I don't want to give birth to a kid and wonder if he's going to live in

01:09:55.540 some sort of Mad Max dystopia.

01:09:58.680 Miriam shared her concern.

01:10:00.060 My instinct now is to shield my children from the horrors of the future by not

01:10:04.200 bringing them into the world.

01:10:05.760 Amanda actually decided to have more children because of climate change.

01:10:09.740 Her reason, someday my husband and I will be gone if my daughter has to face the end of

01:10:14.820 the world as we know it.

01:10:15.800 I want her to have a brother there.

01:10:19.260 Oh my gosh.

01:10:20.880 You want to talk about fear mongering?

01:10:23.840 So many women are bringing climate change into their reproduction decisions that the

01:10:28.480 organization Conceivable Future was founded to help women make environmentally friendly

01:10:34.040 reproductive decisions and navigate our doomed world.

01:10:39.340 Not to bring a child into the world because you're scared they are going to increase your

01:10:44.520 carbon footprint or that they'll live like moody drifters in a desert like terrain is the

01:10:50.940 very definition of insanity.

01:10:54.540 These women are deciding not to have children based on their fictional perception of their

01:11:00.480 children's quality of life.

01:11:05.540 And we're the fear mongers.

01:11:08.700 The disgusting lie of an impending environmental wasteland and an overpopulated planet wasn't

01:11:16.380 true in the 1970s.

01:11:18.880 It wasn't true in the 1960s when it really started to take root and everybody was freaking

01:11:24.460 out in the mid 70s.

01:11:25.780 It wasn't true.

01:11:27.320 It wasn't true that we were going into an ice age and that we would all freeze to death

01:11:33.480 and there would be no food by 1990.

01:11:36.620 That wasn't true in the 70s and the 80s.

01:11:39.040 And it's not true today.

01:11:42.680 This is nonsense.

01:11:45.380 Stop it.

01:11:47.220 We have to be better stewards of our planet.

01:11:51.100 Yes.

01:11:52.260 We should recycle.

01:11:54.020 We should use less.

01:11:55.700 We should make sure that the things that we we do use, we can reuse.

01:12:01.840 But to not have children.

01:12:04.800 The birth rate in the United States reached its lowest point in 2016 and the decline continues

01:12:10.440 all around the world.

01:12:11.600 It is almost criminal that these women are or have been scared so deeply that they are

01:12:20.720 allowing a 50 year old unsubstantiated fear dictate whether or not they bring human life

01:12:26.820 into the world.

01:12:29.980 You know, let me give you a few things to be afraid of.

01:12:32.120 How about this?

01:12:32.900 Women, if you are afraid of this, let me give you something to be scared of.

01:12:35.960 We right now have scientists, credible scientists, Stephen Hawking.

01:12:45.080 Some of the scientists that you believe global warming is true because of it.

01:12:50.160 They say that global warming is nothing compared to A.I.

01:12:55.100 They say A.I. will wipe out the entire human race in the next 30 to 50 years.

01:13:03.420 Long before carbon is killing the planet.

01:13:07.880 Long before.

01:13:13.020 Why don't you listen to them, but you listen to these.

01:13:17.320 And here's an idea.

01:13:19.620 Balance.

01:13:21.160 Balance in your life.

01:13:24.480 There are some days when I read stuff like this, I hope I'm one of the first that a robot

01:13:30.040 replaces.

01:13:37.880 I want to talk a little bit about balance again today.

01:13:45.600 Yesterday, I talked about balance.

01:13:48.180 The balance between self-worth and humility.

01:13:53.580 It's a balance we can never get.

01:13:55.660 If we're on top of the world, if we are doing great, I did it.

01:13:58.060 I did it.

01:13:58.480 Man, look at me.

01:13:59.100 Look at me.

01:13:59.520 Look at me.

01:14:00.000 Our actions scream, look at me.

01:14:02.260 I did it.

01:14:03.020 And if we're having a bad go of it, I'm just stupid.

01:14:09.940 I'm just I'm the worst.

01:14:11.440 I can't believe it.

01:14:13.120 I mean, I never catch a break.

01:14:15.060 I'm just always make the wrong decisions.

01:14:17.760 Oh, man.

01:14:20.660 Humility and self-worth.

01:14:24.860 Where do we get that?

01:14:29.580 Yesterday, Sarah, I don't know if we still have the Martin Luther King commercial that

01:14:33.000 Dodge ran, but there was there was a commercial that is they people are actually calling for

01:14:43.040 the firing of the person who came up with this commercial.

01:14:48.620 This this commercial was brilliant.

01:14:53.680 Was it did it did it sell a truck?

01:14:55.820 I don't know.

01:14:57.160 Did it did it go too far by by comparing Martin Luther King and his mission to a truck?

01:15:05.400 Yes, definitely.

01:15:06.480 Definitely.

01:15:07.960 Was this commercial good?

01:15:12.340 Yeah, I think it was.

01:15:14.160 It was a it was based on a sermon that Martin Luther King did.

01:15:18.380 50 years ago to the day on Super Bowl Sunday.

01:15:26.340 And here's what he had to say.

01:15:27.860 You don't have to know about Plato and Aristotle to serve.

01:15:34.500 You don't have to know the theory of relativity to serve.

01:15:38.560 You don't have to know the second theory of thermodynamics in physics to serve.

01:15:46.200 You only need a heart full of grace.

01:15:52.400 Soul generated by love.

01:15:55.120 Oh, my gosh, they should be fired.

01:16:01.380 Or maybe perhaps this is exactly the message America needs.

01:16:05.340 What is a heart full of grace?

01:16:07.880 What is that?

01:16:09.860 That is a heart, I believe, that is balanced between self-worth and humility.

01:16:17.160 I'm not going to change the world.

01:16:18.680 I'm not going to change anybody's life.

01:16:20.080 I'm just trying to do the right thing.

01:16:21.760 I'm just trying to change my life.

01:16:23.840 I'm trying to be a better person.

01:16:26.040 And I know I can do it because I know who I am.

01:16:29.520 And because I know who I am, I know who you are.

01:16:32.220 And I know how we're connected.

01:16:34.360 And so I'm going to serve you.

01:16:35.800 I'm going to help you because that helps me.

01:16:39.220 It helps all of us.

01:16:40.680 That's what we're here for.

01:16:42.340 That's a heart full of grace.

01:16:43.720 Yesterday, I brought you this message.

01:16:49.080 And right before I went off the air, I received this phone call.

01:16:55.120 Let's go to Minnesota and Brian.

01:16:58.420 Hello, Brian.

01:17:00.200 Hello, Mr. Beck.

01:17:01.120 How are you?

01:17:01.620 I'm very good.

01:17:02.200 How are you?

01:17:02.580 Thanks for holding.

01:17:03.940 You bet.

01:17:04.480 Hey, I just wanted to say, I wanted to preface this with, I'm at work and I don't listen

01:17:10.060 to you very often.

01:17:11.040 And I think it's a bit of serendipity that I happened to listen to you a while ago.

01:17:17.460 The first thing I heard was MLK saying something about having a heart full of grace.

01:17:22.720 Yeah.

01:17:22.840 And then, and then you talked about being honest with yourself and you went on, on that line

01:17:31.260 for quite some time.

01:17:32.180 I served our country in the second of the 75th Ranger Regiment.

01:17:36.120 And I've been honest with myself ever since I got out.

01:17:42.500 I've hated myself.

01:17:44.240 I've despised myself and I'm a husband and I'm a father.

01:17:49.200 And what you said, you know, it's, it's hard for people to reach me at a certain level,

01:17:56.320 um, because I don't want people to, because I, I like to keep people away from me, except

01:18:02.300 for my wife and my daughter.

01:18:04.140 I'm not a huge people person.

01:18:06.500 I, I don't like people.

01:18:08.460 And I think it's because I don't like myself.

01:18:11.040 Um, I've never really had an epiphany moment in my life.

01:18:15.060 I certainly never expected one from, from Glenn Beck.

01:18:19.200 Um, but that's what happened.

01:18:21.620 It, I had to pull my truck over and it moved me to tears to realize how much I can't stand

01:18:30.120 myself and how much of an issue I have being the kind of person that I need to be to guide

01:18:42.480 my family.

01:18:45.020 And all because of the fact that I don't serve anymore and I feel useless.

01:18:52.080 I feel emasculated and, and, and I have no idea how I got to this point today.

01:18:59.180 I have no idea why I'm at this point right now, because I certainly didn't expect it.

01:19:04.700 And I certainly didn't expect it at the time that it happened, but I'm glad that it did.

01:19:11.960 Um, Brian, I just wanted to let you know that.

01:19:14.880 I just have to tell you, you're not alone, brother.

01:19:17.040 And I have been in exactly your place.

01:19:20.420 I've been there.

01:19:21.560 Um, and it gets better.

01:19:24.040 It really does.

01:19:25.240 You just, now that you've recognized it, now you can start taking baby steps and a year

01:19:31.020 from now you won't recognize how great your life is.

01:19:33.780 So that was, that was yesterday's program at the very end of the program.

01:19:38.680 And I was struck by, I hate myself.

01:19:42.800 I despise myself because I used to feel that way too.

01:19:48.220 Um, I don't know if Brian is a drinker, but the way that's the way I dealt with it.

01:19:54.160 And I used to hate people.

01:19:55.880 I used to say that all the time.

01:19:57.160 I hate people.

01:19:59.020 I don't, I hated me.

01:20:01.460 I hated me.

01:20:02.540 I was a self hating ego maniac.

01:20:10.400 That's who we've become.

01:20:14.740 We are, we are filled with certitude that we know exactly what's happening.

01:20:21.880 We know exactly what the problem is.

01:20:26.140 We do this in our, we, it's so strange.

01:20:29.000 We do this in, um, in politics.

01:20:32.040 We know our side is right.

01:20:34.600 Their side is wrong.

01:20:36.000 We know it.

01:20:42.180 And there's no room for gray.

01:20:44.000 But I'm sorry to say, principles are principles.

01:20:49.640 They are black and white.

01:20:52.140 But how we're getting to those principles, how we're understanding those principles, there's

01:20:58.200 a lot of gray.

01:20:59.500 Their side is not always wrong.

01:21:02.000 And we're not always right.

01:21:04.260 In fact, we seem to switch places an awful lot.

01:21:13.260 Brian says he feels useless and emasculated.

01:21:17.380 And I fear there's going to be more of that before there's less.

01:21:22.520 But the good news is, if you recognize it now, you can take the steps to change that course.

01:21:32.460 And it's really hard, but it's so well worth it.

01:21:38.300 My father taught me the most important thing anybody's ever taught me in my life.

01:21:44.080 The most powerful words in any language is I am.

01:21:48.340 You change what follows those two words, and you will change your life.

01:21:58.460 I can guarantee you that he spends a lot of time as I did.

01:22:04.860 I am useless.

01:22:06.120 I am worthless.

01:22:07.560 I am so weak.

01:22:08.760 I am so pathetic.

01:22:09.880 Well, if you had somebody around you saying that all day long, for months and months and

01:22:16.900 months, perhaps years, it would affect you.

01:22:20.460 And we would call it mental abuse.

01:22:24.700 We say those things to ourselves much more than anybody else could possibly say that.

01:22:31.760 We're inflicting mental abuse on ourself, and we believe it.

01:22:35.940 After a while, you believe it.

01:22:39.880 Do yourself a favor.

01:22:43.180 Get out a notebook and a pencil and just put positive and negative.

01:22:48.740 One side positive, one side negative.

01:22:50.680 Don't judge anything.

01:22:52.360 Don't ponder it.

01:22:53.540 Just when you have a thought, I'm so tired.

01:22:57.620 I'm so worthless.

01:22:58.640 Oh, my gosh.

01:22:59.340 I'm so whatever it is.

01:23:00.840 I am.

01:23:03.120 Just notice, is it positive or a negative?

01:23:05.020 Then just mark it down.

01:23:05.820 When I did this years ago, I don't think I had any positives on.

01:23:13.800 In the worst times of my life, I have fewer positives than negatives.

01:23:19.300 Your job is to stop using, in my opinion, the name of God is I am.

01:23:27.080 Who shall I say sent me?

01:23:28.560 Said Moses.

01:23:29.460 I am that I am.

01:23:30.960 Don't take the Lord's name in vain.

01:23:35.060 What he means by that is my creative power is in my name.

01:23:39.880 And I am.

01:23:41.880 We'll create whatever it is.

01:23:43.600 Don't take it in vain.

01:23:44.620 Don't take that lightly.

01:23:47.300 I am strong.

01:23:48.840 I am stronger today than I was yesterday.

01:23:51.240 I am better today than I was yesterday.

01:23:54.880 I am.

01:23:55.380 I am discovering my worth every second.

01:23:58.780 You can't just convince yourself that you are worthy.

01:24:01.280 I'm discovering my worth every day.

01:24:04.560 I am finding new things to be excited about every day.

01:24:11.360 Believe me, you change your thinking and you will change your life.

01:24:16.100 Oh, and by the way, for anybody who thought that the guy should be fired for that Dodge Ram commercial, maybe Dodge could say that because I don't think Brian is going to be out buying a Dodge because of the commercial.

01:24:29.660 But because of that commercial and because we weren't bitching about it on the air, but actually talking about it, it changed one man's life.

01:24:40.460 Good job, Dodge.

01:24:41.740 I have a love story I wanted to tell you about.

01:24:46.960 Oh, a love story.

01:24:47.600 It's very nice.

01:24:48.000 This is good.

01:24:48.440 All right.

01:24:48.740 All right.

01:24:49.200 It was a long time ago, about 25 years ago.

01:24:50.920 25 years ago.

01:24:51.700 Two crayfish.

01:24:53.580 Two.

01:24:54.000 Pardon me?

01:24:54.440 Two crayfish.

01:24:55.400 Yes.

01:24:55.700 Okay.

01:24:56.180 They met.

01:24:57.560 And they.

01:24:58.920 I don't know if they.

01:24:59.440 It went fast.

01:25:00.760 Uh-huh.

01:25:01.040 You know, things moved pretty fast.

01:25:02.360 Yes.

01:25:02.460 It was not one of those.

01:25:03.640 They meet.

01:25:04.600 They.

01:25:04.680 Like, it was like.

01:25:05.360 It was right to.

01:25:06.000 Love at first sight.

01:25:06.580 Love at first sight.

01:25:06.840 Not even that.

01:25:07.480 It was just sex.

01:25:08.280 They went at it.

01:25:09.200 Yes.

01:25:09.480 Right.

01:25:09.820 Okay.

01:25:10.000 There was an issue, however.

01:25:11.320 Uh-oh.

01:25:12.500 One of them had a mutation in a sex cell.

01:25:14.980 Oh, boy.

01:25:15.300 Okay.

01:25:15.660 In a sex cell.

01:25:16.340 Yes.

01:25:17.900 Whether it was the egg or the sperm, the scientists don't know yet.

01:25:20.120 Don't know.

01:25:20.820 As they analyze this love story.

01:25:22.700 Oh, boy.

01:25:23.540 Now, normal sex cells contain a single copy of each chromosome.

01:25:27.680 Mm-hmm.

01:25:28.120 But the mutant crayfish cell had two.

01:25:30.820 Uh-oh.

01:25:31.120 Somehow, the two sex cells fused and produced a female crayfish embryo with three copies of each

01:25:36.940 chromosome instead of the normal two.

01:25:38.400 Two, somehow, two, the crayfish didn't suffer any deformities because of this, which was normally

01:25:44.060 what would happen.

01:25:44.600 I want to know.

01:25:45.100 Is there extra meat?

01:25:47.060 Yes.

01:25:47.440 It's actually, these crayfish are very large.

01:25:49.100 Really?

01:25:49.460 And they produce a lot of eggs.

01:25:50.500 And what's interesting about these new crayfish.

01:25:52.580 Yeah.

01:25:52.720 What happened on this day, this love story that paid off 25 years ago.

01:25:55.600 Yeah.

01:25:55.800 Just 25 years ago, is they can now clone themselves.

01:25:59.540 And they, I guess they became popular, like, by people, aquarium hobbyists in the 1990s.

01:26:06.020 And they, because they were bigger than the normal ones, and they produced lots of eggs,

01:26:10.040 so you'd get lots of extras.

01:26:11.140 And they kept producing so many extras, people started freaking out and just bringing them

01:26:15.000 to local lakes and just dumping them in the lakes, the extras.

01:26:18.220 And then, of course, obviously, free to roam.

01:26:20.640 They're very resilient, free to roam.

01:26:22.180 They're able to produce more and more and more and more.

01:26:24.300 And now they're all over the world.

01:26:26.240 No one knows how to get rid of them or what to do about them.

01:26:28.840 It's honestly like the, um, is it the rabbit population in, in, uh, in Australia?

01:26:36.160 Do you know that?

01:26:37.320 I think it's rabbits, isn't it?

01:26:39.920 Well, I mean, I know one phrase about rabbits that works into the story.

01:26:42.600 No, I know, but I mean, there was, there was a, there was, I can't remember how this

01:26:45.480 worked, but somebody brought over, I think it was rabbits to Australia.

01:26:49.080 And there was, uh, the natural predators were not strong enough.

01:26:53.380 And the rabbit population went crazy and overrun, I think it's Australia with rabbits.

01:26:59.700 Uh, and it was a real problem, uh, over in Australia because people, you know, there's

01:27:04.620 bring all the cute little bunny and they bring it over the, you know, I don't know about the

01:27:07.980 cute little crawfish, but you know, you're taking it out of its natural habitat and you're,

01:27:12.280 you're just starting to dump it and it, and it doesn't have necessarily any predators.

01:27:16.080 And in this case, it's genetically cloning itself.

01:27:18.560 Is that the one where there's like a whole Island where it's just like covered in, I don't

01:27:22.340 know.

01:27:22.540 It might be a book that I read to my kids at night.

01:27:25.000 I don't know.

01:27:25.480 Uh, it's interesting though, that they say that the, about one out of every 10,000 species

01:27:30.680 this occurs with, there's some mutation.

01:27:34.160 And then the woman, the lovely woman, she, the crop person is very much says me too, and

01:27:44.840 doesn't want to be with the men anymore.

01:27:45.940 Right.

01:27:46.500 And then she starts having her own clone babies.

01:27:49.780 They're taking over Europe.

01:27:51.260 There's millions and they can't stop it because they just keep cloning themselves with the

01:27:56.000 hundreds.

01:27:57.120 Was it man created or was this natural?

01:28:00.560 Natural.

01:28:01.200 It happens.

01:28:01.900 Evolution.

01:28:02.540 It's evolution.

01:28:03.680 People.

01:28:04.200 You're listening to the best of the Glenn Beck program.

01:28:11.140 So much to the, I would think, chagrin of my friends and chagrin of his friends.

01:28:16.400 Uh, we are friends.

01:28:18.600 Eric Lou is the founder and CEO of citizen university.

01:28:22.500 Also the executive director of the Aspen Institute citizenship and American identity program.

01:28:28.020 He's, um, he's from Seattle.

01:28:30.420 I don't think I need to say anything else.

01:28:31.900 He's from Seattle.

01:28:33.780 Uh, so, so, uh, uh, we don't necessarily agree on everything.

01:28:38.760 Um, but we, we have become friends because we both are trying to find sane ways to have

01:28:46.500 conversations with each other and other people, or we're doomed.

01:28:50.420 We're doomed.

01:28:51.360 Welcome.

01:28:51.860 How are you?

01:28:52.420 Glenn.

01:28:52.580 It's great to be back.

01:28:53.400 So would you agree with me that both sides to one degree or another have become unhinged

01:29:00.900 on the extreme edges?

01:29:03.620 Yeah.

01:29:03.780 I think our politics today, and especially if you spend more than 10 minutes on social

01:29:07.500 media, um, is about, uh, voices on the unhinged extremes.

01:29:13.200 Um, and it's about this pattern that plays out over and over where, um, each extreme has

01:29:19.020 to gin it up in order to, um, to feed the rage and the anger about the other side's

01:29:24.080 extreme.

01:29:24.500 Yeah.

01:29:24.700 You know, I think that, that is our politics as it's mediated, you know, especially through

01:29:30.260 social media.

01:29:30.980 Yeah.

01:29:31.420 Um, but I think, uh, there is a broad swath of, you know, sane people, um, call them,

01:29:38.300 you know, interested bystanders, people who aren't super active in politics, super active

01:29:42.620 in commenting on politics, um, who just want to understand each other and who just want

01:29:47.560 to fix stuff.

01:29:48.680 Yeah.

01:29:49.020 Um, and some of them are as progressive as I am, and some of them are as libertarian

01:29:54.400 as you are, and, uh, many of them are in all points between, but, uh, uh, they're not

01:29:58.960 interested in the game playing and the posturing, uh, that so much of national politics is about

01:30:04.220 today.

01:30:04.700 Yeah.

01:30:04.900 I, I, I mean, I, I, we're, we're making everything about politics now.

01:30:09.100 Absolutely.

01:30:09.760 Everything is about politics and, and we're not going to survive that.

01:30:12.920 That's just, that's nuts.

01:30:14.800 Um, I, the story today came out on, um, sports illustrated.

01:30:18.940 They just did a, a swimsuit issue that doesn't have any swimsuits.

01:30:23.500 Uh, the, all of the women are completely naked and they're beautiful women.

01:30:28.080 One is lying down naked face up with the word truth painted on her rib cage.

01:30:32.940 Uh, another one is naked with feminist emblazoned on her arm.

01:30:38.680 The other is the daughter of Christie Brinkley that has staring at the camera laying on her

01:30:44.280 side with the word progress written across her back.

01:30:46.940 And they've put this, this is, I don't understand this.

01:30:51.340 This is sports illustrated, a magazine for men trying to say, see, we shouldn't objectify

01:30:57.940 women.

01:30:58.380 I don't understand that.

01:30:59.760 Yeah.

01:31:00.800 There's a lot that is great fundamentally about the me too movement and the fact that our society

01:31:06.160 is waking up to agree shifting norms on what's okay when it comes to actually treating women

01:31:11.480 with respect, right?

01:31:12.860 Uh, but I do not look to sports illustrated as my moral guide on the objectification of

01:31:18.260 women.

01:31:18.660 How do we, how do we find a way and, and, and, and tell me what your feelings are on

01:31:24.100 the people that, you know, on the, on the dangers, even Margaret Atwood brought this up,

01:31:30.560 the dangers of these, these kangaroo courts, or just not even, not even a kangaroo court,

01:31:35.820 just you're guilty and you're done if anybody accuses you, uh, the danger is there.

01:31:42.340 Uh, but I think actually as a society, we're navigating it right now.

01:31:45.880 I mean, this is, this is somewhat uncharted, right?

01:31:48.540 It's not like the society has tried before to have deep equity between men and women on

01:31:53.840 what, who gets to harass whom we've never done that before.

01:31:56.560 We're having a society wide reckoning.

01:31:58.420 Are there going to be cases where people, um, abuse that the power that comes with that?

01:32:03.160 Sure.

01:32:03.280 Uh, but are our institutions and are the leaders in our institutions fundamentally trying to

01:32:08.720 reckon with that in good faith?

01:32:09.880 I actually think we are right.

01:32:11.360 And even this kind of absurd sports illustrated cover, um, is a sign that, you know, one thing

01:32:16.460 you can say about sports illustrated is they're trying to tune into the zeitgeist.

01:32:20.000 They are aware of the marketplace, right?

01:32:22.140 And they know the zeitgeist is you got to be on the right side of this issue, right?

01:32:26.680 Right.

01:32:27.320 And that, that's something.

01:32:28.340 But if I did photos of naked women and put, you know, hashtag me too, I don't think I'd

01:32:33.780 get the pass that, you know, from either side in my case, from either side.

01:32:40.160 The question is one of, you know, in the law, they talk about standing.

01:32:42.660 Do you have standing to make a case, right?

01:32:45.480 Um, during the super bowl, we all watch the ads and stuff.

01:32:48.280 I didn't think Dodge Ram trucks had the moral standing to use an MLK speech about the dangers

01:32:54.260 of commercialism, um, to sell trucks.

01:32:56.680 To me, that was, and to lots of Americans, that was, you know what, uh, message and messenger

01:33:02.480 not aligned here, right?

01:33:03.700 You mean the, you mean the MLK message?

01:33:05.920 Yeah.

01:33:06.360 Yeah.

01:33:06.540 Okay.

01:33:06.820 So the MLK message, may I present an opposite point of view?

01:33:10.680 Um, uh, that's a, that's a sermon that most Americans have never heard was really good.

01:33:16.780 I agree with you that, you know, the images of the truck coming in halfway and you're like,

01:33:22.260 okay, that's really, you don't need that.

01:33:24.340 Just a simple Dodge at the end would have been perfect.

01:33:28.440 Would have been great.

01:33:28.900 So, um, who have you found, uh, Eric, you know, I have been looking for a while, uh,

01:33:35.720 looking for people like you that we don't necessarily agree, but we can have really good

01:33:39.440 conversations and we can move things forward together.

01:33:42.760 Um, who have you found on the, on the left or in the media that is really willing to do

01:33:49.880 that?

01:33:50.220 Hmm.

01:33:51.100 You know, um, and I'm not sure if she's been a guest on your show, but my friend Nira

01:33:55.060 Tanden, um, who runs the center for American progress.

01:33:58.660 So big, big progressive think tank that I know you cross swords with.

01:34:02.440 Yeah.

01:34:02.940 Uh, but Nira is both able and willing to have conversations with anybody, uh, and to have

01:34:09.300 them in ways that aren't just about the made for TV food fight, um, that are really trying

01:34:14.280 to say, what's your deal, right?

01:34:16.520 What, what are you getting at here?

01:34:18.380 I really feel one of the biggest problems is nobody's listening at all.

01:34:23.480 Nobody feels heard right now.

01:34:26.620 Um, the somehow or another, the left, which still controls most of the media doesn't feel

01:34:33.300 heard.

01:34:33.640 And the right, now that they control the house and the Senate and that they don't feel heard.

01:34:39.160 And it's because nobody is, nobody is actually, um, um, I guess, I guess emoting what the average

01:34:50.800 person is feeling right now.

01:34:53.000 You know, we're all scared.

01:34:54.280 It's amazing.

01:34:54.880 I saw, I saw a YouTube video of a, of a liberal, um, talking about how, uh, afraid she was that,

01:35:02.260 uh, Donald Trump was going to build concentration camps and it was in a room that probably had

01:35:07.420 a thousand people in it and they all were like, yeah, yeah.

01:35:10.420 And I remember I debunked the lie about Obama making, uh, concentration camps.

01:35:16.960 Cause that was a big deal.

01:35:18.220 Big conspiracy theory.

01:35:19.600 I, I was called a conspiracy theorist for debunking that conspiracy theorist, uh, theory.

01:35:26.380 Um, and, and now the other side is feeling the same kind of fear that so many Americans

01:35:34.200 did when they didn't trust the president.

01:35:36.360 And I think this is a moment where we can wake up and say, see, this is why the president

01:35:40.720 should never have this much power.

01:35:43.360 The president should not be able to affect our lives to the point to where we're afraid

01:35:47.780 of him.

01:35:48.300 Yeah.

01:35:48.840 I actually agree with that.

01:35:50.240 I think there's one lesson that people on the left are learning today.

01:35:52.960 And that is, um, the dangers of this Imperial presidency, right?

01:35:57.420 Which is not a Trump phenomenon or even an Obama phenomenon.

01:36:00.460 It's going back half a century at least, right?

01:36:02.600 At least since world war two, right?

01:36:04.100 The concentration power in the executive, right?

01:36:06.880 Yeah.

01:36:07.160 Um, but I think you're, I want to go back to something you were saying about listening

01:36:09.980 and being heard, right?

01:36:11.840 Uh, we, we live in this time right now where there is, and we've talked about this.

01:36:15.880 There's so much pain.

01:36:17.700 There's so much pain.

01:36:18.840 The segment you were doing right before the break, um, in which you were just speaking

01:36:23.140 to a human individual about the pain they are feeling in their journey.

01:36:28.080 And you were tying it to the pain that you have felt at various points on your journey,

01:36:31.840 right?

01:36:33.000 Um, that kind of conversation, which is both about listening, but it's about, I'm not just

01:36:38.320 listening to the words you're saying and to the points you're making.

01:36:40.820 I'm trying to listen underneath, um, to, to the emotional currents there.

01:36:46.420 Uh, that's a set of habits that nobody's modeling for us in national politics and that

01:36:50.680 we as citizens, frankly, it's gotten easier for us basically to shed those habits because

01:36:55.600 nothing in our daily lives rewards that, right?

01:36:58.120 Social media doesn't reward that.

01:37:00.160 Um, the media doesn't, the media doesn't reward that, right?

01:37:03.020 And so we, we've got to actually build experiences where we see each other face to face again.

01:37:08.400 Um, you know, if we were having this conversation by phone, this would be different, but I'm looking

01:37:12.960 you in the eye right now, Glenn, and I'm looking at you as you have spoken about these questions

01:37:17.760 and there's a human connection here, uh, that I can't now just call you a nut job and call

01:37:23.520 you a this and call you a that.

01:37:24.820 Like we've connected on some level, right?

01:37:26.760 It doesn't mean we're going to agree on the issues, but it means that I'm not going to

01:37:30.080 demonize.

01:37:30.660 And I think the deepest ill in our politics is how, um, we've forgotten how to rehumanize

01:37:35.920 each other.

01:37:36.940 That's so funny.

01:37:37.940 I was just, I just wrote a member of the press this morning, uh, private, uh, conversation

01:37:43.920 that dealt with that.

01:37:45.940 I said, we are, we are calling each other subhumans exactly the way the early, you know, 1920s

01:37:53.500 Nazis were starting to train people that you're subhuman.

01:37:56.880 If you don't agree with me, you're subhuman and we're, we're training each other that way.

01:38:01.880 But it doesn't, social media is not the only one that doesn't reward it.

01:38:05.880 Media doesn't reward it either.

01:38:07.340 I mean, if, if you're not going to call somebody a nut job or a Nazi, you don't win and they

01:38:12.800 don't put you on.

01:38:13.720 Uh, and you, Stu, were you, it was a, you yesterday that said that you had seen somebody

01:38:19.340 say, no, well on the surface, this means X and X.

01:38:24.380 And the guy was like, no, but that's, it was, it was an interview about, uh, some controversial

01:38:30.480 comment that had gone on in the media and they had brought someone on to kind of answer for

01:38:35.480 it in the typical kind of cable news back and forth.

01:38:37.740 And that was essentially the way they went when the, when the person was pushing back

01:38:42.220 against it, they said, yeah, but you got to admit on the surface, it's, it's, it's an

01:38:45.540 insult.

01:38:46.160 It's like, well, isn't the point here as human beings that we go beyond the surface, that

01:38:50.760 we think a little bit deeper about these things because we can all get frustrated at the surface

01:38:55.680 of it.

01:38:56.100 We can all find the worst possible intent of a comment and turn it into something that's

01:39:01.800 going to enrage our side, but that shouldn't be our goal.

01:39:04.480 So, so Eric, how do we do that?

01:39:05.900 Well, it starts with something that I actually want to give you guys credit for, which is

01:39:09.460 you got to put something at risk, right?

01:39:12.220 When you started a couple of years ago saying, I own my piece of how our politics and our

01:39:17.300 political culture have gotten toxic.

01:39:19.180 Um, and I've, and I've decided I want to be part of the solution.

01:39:21.640 I want to start reaching out and having conversations across different divides, right?

01:39:26.120 You put a bunch of stuff at risk.

01:39:28.880 You feel it acutely, right?

01:39:30.460 You feel it every day.

01:39:31.560 You put, I don't have to name it, right?

01:39:33.780 It's not just about the business side of things and the listeners and the sponsors or whatever.

01:39:37.440 I'm talking about just reputational power and so forth, right?

01:39:40.740 You put stuff at risk.

01:39:42.180 And I often ask myself and I ask my friends who are left of center, what are we willing

01:39:46.720 to put at risk in order to change this politics, in order to go a little deeper beyond the

01:39:52.120 surface and beyond just this, uh, uh, throwing of flames at each other, right?

01:39:56.660 So number one, it's being willing, and I want to name the fact that you all have started

01:40:01.260 something and, and set in motion a different cycle of, of responsibility taking rather than

01:40:06.140 responsibility shirking, right?

01:40:07.960 Thank you.

01:40:08.340 There is only one way to break the cycle of dehumanization and responsibility shirking.

01:40:14.260 And that is to break it.

01:40:15.680 That is to be, you know, say, you know what?

01:40:17.600 I didn't start it.

01:40:18.880 I didn't, I'm not the one to blame, but darn it.

01:40:21.020 I'm actually just going to say, I'm stopping right now and I'm trying to change direction

01:40:25.540 here, go a little deeper, rehumanize.

01:40:28.200 And yeah, I may pay some price for that, but this is a, uh, this is a question of purpose.

01:40:33.600 As a, one of the famous poets said, we didn't start the fire.

01:40:37.100 It was Billy Joel and stop it.

01:40:38.260 It was always a poet.

01:40:40.620 Yes.

01:40:41.360 So what do your friends say to you when you say, what are we willing to lose?

01:40:46.200 What are we willing to, what chip are we willing to put up?

01:40:48.600 Let me tell you about something we've been doing at Citizen University.

01:40:51.180 We, for the last year plus now, year and a quarter, um, we've been doing these regular

01:40:54.820 gatherings that we call civic Saturday.

01:40:57.040 Um, and these are basically a civic analog to church.

01:41:00.800 It's not church.

01:41:01.780 It's not synagogue or mosque, but it's about American civic religion, right?

01:41:05.480 The stuff that you and I as civic nerds are steeped in, right?

01:41:08.680 I mean, uh, understanding the language and the texts and the, uh, what you might think

01:41:13.180 of as civic scripture, uh, whether that's from the declaration of the preamble or King

01:41:17.720 speeches or Susan B.

01:41:19.060 Anthony or whatever it might be.

01:41:20.420 Um, and understanding that we have all inherited this body of values and text and idea.

01:41:27.340 Uh, and we do these gatherings with the arc of a faith gathering.

01:41:30.580 We sing together, you turn to the stranger next to you, you talk about a common question.

01:41:34.600 Uh, there are readings of these texts.

01:41:37.340 Um, there's a sermon that I've been giving.

01:41:39.060 Um, and then afterwards there's more song and then there's an hour afterwards where people

01:41:42.840 kind of form up in circles and talk about what are we going to do together?

01:41:45.880 Right.

01:41:46.300 And I go at length to tell you about this because number one, it's been amazing how people have

01:41:52.020 responded to this.

01:41:52.940 Uh, there, there is this need across the left and the right, whether you are, um, uh, traditionally

01:41:58.420 religious or not, there is this need in our political life for a space where we can come

01:42:03.380 together and rehumanize.

01:42:04.780 Right.

01:42:05.180 Number one, but number two, when in that space, I've said to folks in these sermons, what I

01:42:10.480 said here, which was, we've got to be willing to take risks.

01:42:13.300 We've got to be willing to ask ourselves, what are we willing to put on the line?

01:42:17.180 Um, and people, people are, people sit there for a minute because they haven't been asked

01:42:23.060 slash challenge to do that in a long time.

01:42:25.420 Right.

01:42:26.540 All of our political leadership is about, let me indulge you.

01:42:30.040 Let me indulge your, your worst instincts.

01:42:32.280 Let me indulge you, not, um, what can you do?

01:42:35.500 And maybe even give up a little bit, um, in order to start solving the problem.

01:42:39.440 Right.

01:42:40.200 Um, and that leads to different kinds of conversations.

01:42:42.580 And frankly, not all of them are about Trump or national politics.

01:42:46.000 A lot of these conversations then come to, um, life in our city, which is changing dramatically

01:42:50.740 right now.

01:42:51.340 That's what it should come down to in the first place.

01:42:53.320 Um, he has written a book.

01:42:55.320 You're more powerful than you think.

01:42:56.840 His name is Eric Liu, uh, and we'll have more tonight at five o'clock.

01:43:01.460 Make sure you join us on theblaze.com slash TV.

01:43:06.280 Hey, just so you know, things could be worse.

01:43:08.720 Imagine if I got on the air today and said, by the way, the government has decided to change

01:43:12.540 the alphabet again today.

01:43:14.960 Yeah.

01:43:15.160 This is what happened in Kazakhstan.

01:43:16.460 They had a new alphabet introduced last year, had 32 letters, but it had tons of apostrophes

01:43:21.780 in it and the apostrophes were supposed to denote distinct sounds.

01:43:25.980 What happened was people got really pissed off largely because it's really hard to get

01:43:31.160 to the apostrophe on your, on your handheld device.

01:43:33.720 So you're typing a message on your phone.

01:43:35.420 You're constantly bringing up shift and going to the apostrophe.

01:43:38.500 They've now reworked with less apostrophes, a new alphabet, and that will be going in.

01:43:43.100 Even though people have bought signs for the old one.

01:43:45.220 Hey, but big government is the solution.

01:43:48.260 What was this?

01:43:48.740 Glenn Beck, Mercury.

The Glenn Beck Program - May 28, 2018

'The Best of Glenn Beck' - 5⧸28⧸18

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