The Golden One - Talking to Dan of Wolcensmen About Paganism and the Anglo-Saxon Runes

00:00:00.000 Greetings, my esteemed audience. Welcome to the greatest interview of all time.

00:00:07.640 So today we are joined by Dan from Volkensmen. The main topic at hand is the runes and

00:00:16.860 Germanic paganism, or more specifically Anglo-Saxon paganism. And as was the case with my last

00:00:24.920 interview, it's to satisfy my own curiosity. And we'll get into the specifics of said curiosity

00:00:32.120 later on. But now I would like to invite our guest, Dan, a warm welcome to the show.

00:00:39.920 Hey, Markus. Good to be finally speaking with you.

00:00:43.260 Yeah, good to talk to you too. So for anyone who isn't aware of your work, your music, would

00:00:50.900 you like to introduce yourself? Yeah, sure. Okay. So my name's Dan, obviously. I am a heathen

00:01:00.780 from England. And I'm probably, I'm probably most known for my musical work with a project

00:01:07.560 called Volkensmen. And anyone who's seen any of Survive the Jives videos will recognize the

00:01:14.440 intro song as my song, Sunna.

00:01:18.260 Ah, it's an iconic and most glorious tune. So well done on that.

00:01:23.180 Thank you. Yeah. No, it was a good, it was a good, good kind of relationship that Tom and

00:01:28.640 I struck up there. We kind of had vague understanding of one another. And he asked if he could use

00:01:35.080 the song. And obviously, I was happy to, to let him. So yeah, it's, it's been good that.

00:01:40.100 And yeah, and in the last couple of years, I've also been running a Telegram and Odyssey

00:01:47.120 and YouTube channel called The Fergan, which the idea behind that was to have a platform

00:01:54.200 to, to express my more kind of socio political as well as spiritual views to an audience that

00:02:03.360 isn't my, uh, Volkensmen fan base, because, um, I don't believe in forcing your personal

00:02:12.080 views upon people just because they're fans of your music.

00:02:15.640 Yeah. Yeah. Makes sense. Makes sense.

00:02:17.540 Yeah. It's, you know, I think we've probably all had that experience where we have a musician

00:02:22.060 that we really like, and then they start, they kind of open their mouths and start uttering

00:02:26.960 things which we really don't, don't, don't like, don't, don't enjoy. Um, so as a, out

00:02:34.280 of respect for my, uh, my musical audience, I decided to create a whole new platform and

00:02:39.280 I haven't really kind of promoted one platform on the other and vice versa. I've kept them

00:02:45.460 quite separate, but, um, I imagine that most people listening to this are probably familiar

00:02:50.220 with the Fergen as well as maybe Volkensmen. Um, so yeah. Yeah. And I, I have shared some

00:02:57.040 of your stuff on Telegram as well. So the name, uh, may be familiar to, uh, to everyone

00:03:02.080 who is on my Telegram. Ah, thank you. Oh, my, my pleasure. I always, uh, share good takes.

00:03:09.440 So, uh, yeah, you said you are a heathen. Uh, would you like to give, um, an origin story?

00:03:16.040 So, uh, yeah. Stretching back as long as you, you would like to tell. Um, I suppose you

00:03:21.780 started off as, uh, uh, uh, in England, of course, was it a religious household, Christian,

00:03:27.940 atheist? Give us, give us the, uh, the origin story of, uh, how you ended up being, uh, an

00:03:34.520 Anglo-Saxon pagan. Okay. Well, I hope you're sitting comfortable because I'll try, I'll try 0.85

00:03:41.100 and, uh, I'll try and keep this as short as possible, but, um, take your time. It's, uh, it's

00:03:45.080 always interesting to hear the, the nuances of, uh, of this, uh, this journeys towards,

00:03:50.340 um, uh, spirituality. So go ahead. Okay. Well, I was, uh, yeah, I was, I was christened,

00:03:57.540 but, uh, for no good reason because my parents, uh, are both agnostic or atheist. So I grew

00:04:03.900 up, it grew up in a very non-religious household. Um, there, there are a couple of religious people,

00:04:10.600 a couple of Christians in my, my family. Um, but my branch of the family has always been

00:04:16.120 very non-religious. Um, nevertheless, um, I was very close with one of my cousins, uh,

00:04:22.860 who was raised Christian. Uh, and the, the, the reason I was christened was because he

00:04:27.960 and I were born around the same time. So, uh, my father and, um, his father decided to do

00:04:33.820 a combined christening. Um, but so I, I, I grew up very close with him and he was Christian.

00:04:40.560 I wasn't, but I always felt that, uh, I, I always felt that there was more, um, to existence

00:04:47.800 than what meets the eye. I just, uh, I could never, well, initially I kind of thought myself

00:04:54.540 Christian just because I'd been christened and I was too young, young to realize anything else.

00:04:58.540 But, you know, when I got to my, my teenage years, I did what pretty much everyone, uh,

00:05:03.480 in the kind of, you know, millennial or Gen X, uh, or younger generation does, which is,

00:05:09.780 you know, discovers kind of rebellious things like atheism and, uh, communism and things

00:05:16.340 like that. Um, so yeah, what went down a kind of wrong path there. Um, but it was really,

00:05:23.360 I suppose when I, um, discovered black metal, uh, which is a musical genre, which I've had

00:05:30.260 a long, um, passionate relationship with since I was a teenager. Um, and through black metal,

00:05:36.940 I was introduced to lots of esoteric and occult ideas. Um, which is, I think that's one of

00:05:42.960 the most important things that black metal offers. It kind of, um, it, it, uh, because obviously

00:05:48.820 when it first came out, you know, whether it be with Venom and Bathory and things, or

00:05:53.040 whether it be in the nineties with the Norwegian bands, it was a rejection of Christianity.

00:05:59.580 Um, so it kind of offered these, these other things, obviously Satanism was there, which

00:06:05.160 is not something that I ever, um, got into because it's not really a proper, uh, spiritual

00:06:12.280 tradition. And I don't think any of those bands ever really saw it as such, but there was,

00:06:17.440 uh, there was one band who I was a huge fan of called, uh, dissection. He was a fellow

00:06:22.600 Swedish, uh, uh, guys of yours. And, um, when the, the lead guy from the band, he, he went

00:06:31.040 to prison for murder. Um, um, when he came out, he had this, this whole kind of Luciferian

00:06:37.360 Gnostic belief system, which, um, that, that, I think this was the first time that I ever

00:06:42.320 really truly considered the, the kind of the metaphysical in, in a real tangible sense,

00:06:48.660 you know, it's not a belief system that I adopted, but I was fascinated by it at the

00:06:52.340 time. And, uh, it was basically this anti-cosmic view, this rejection of the material world,

00:06:57.460 this idea that we are divine sparks trapped in matter. And that our goal is to, uh, escape

00:07:05.320 the realm of matter, the cosmos and return to Lucifer, who is the progenitor of the divine

00:07:11.600 spark beyond the cosmos. Um, so I, I found this a really kind of fascinating idea. Um,

00:07:17.140 it's not something as I say that I adopted, uh, and it was really, I suppose I can, uh, and

00:07:23.300 you know, I think there'll be a few people snigger when I say this, but really, I think I can credit

00:07:27.000 Vargvikines for my discovery of, uh, heathenry because, uh, throughout, you know, I was a huge

00:07:35.760 fan of his music Bertim, uh, in the, in the late nineties when I discovered it and his CDs were

00:07:43.440 covered in runes and, you know, he spoke in his writings on his website, you know, before he had

00:07:49.660 his YouTube channel and his blog, he spoke about the runes and Germanic paganism and things like this.

00:07:55.080 And, and this is where I really started to take an interest. Um, and then, you know, coupled with

00:08:01.620 the fact that a few years later, I just, uh, I discovered my ethnic identity, um, initially kind

00:08:08.640 of veering towards the, this, this kind of, um, phantom Celtic identity that I thought I had just

00:08:16.060 because I was British. Um, but then, you know, quite soon after a year or two kind of realizing that

00:08:23.280 actually, uh, you know, that I, my identity is not Celtic and, um, it is, uh, Germanic and,

00:08:29.940 you know, I'm also, my mother is Dutch, so I'm, um, uh, Anglo Dutch. So this, uh, this,

00:08:37.520 you know, this, my identity is, uh, Germanic and it's, it's tied, uh, it led me towards Germanic

00:08:43.700 heathenry. And, um, so this was probably around, um, I guess my early to mid twenties. So I've been,

00:08:53.940 uh, um, I've been a heathen, uh, for about 15 years, I would say, and, um, kind of, I would say

00:09:01.280 a practicing heathen as in going to moots meeting with other groups, um, for probably, uh, or 10,

00:09:10.760 11 years. All right. Right. Yeah. That's, uh, that's pretty much it. All right. Awesome. So

00:09:17.320 would you say that the, uh, I suppose your spiritual journey and your musical journey,

00:09:23.500 they have gone hand in hand. Uh, so is your, is your music, uh, an expression of your spirituality?

00:09:31.420 Yes. Yeah, very much. So when I, um, when I came up with the idea of Walkinsman, which was probably

00:09:36.540 around 2011, 2012. Um, so shortly after I'd become a, uh, like a practicing heathen, uh, initially it

00:09:46.940 was, it was just for the love of the music. I didn't create the project as an expression of my, uh,

00:09:52.560 spiritual worldview, but it was out of love of that type of music, this kind of, uh, dark atmospheric

00:09:58.720 folk music. And, uh, I just wanted to make a demo at the time. I just wanted to write a few songs

00:10:04.480 and record them. And I had no aspirations beyond that. Uh, but when it came to writing the lyrics,

00:10:10.280 the only thing that felt natural was writing about, uh, heathen, uh, topics and expressing

00:10:17.600 heathen and runic ideas through the lyrics, uh, because, um, you know, lyrics are not something

00:10:24.620 that I've ever come particularly easy to me. Um, so, you know, if, if there's kind of like a ready

00:10:30.780 made, um, whole, you know, foundation for them, if there's already a world out there that I can draw

00:10:37.480 upon, then, you know, that makes my life easier. Um, also the fact that, um, you know, the music to

00:10:46.060 me is very, that type of music has always been very kind of, um, I don't like using the word

00:10:51.840 transcendental because it, it kind of suggests, you know, this desire to escape your existence,

00:10:57.720 but, um, it's always been very transportative and, you know, the, the atmosphere of the music

00:11:02.240 has been very spiritual to me. So it made sense to, um, use spiritual topics in the, the, the lyrical,

00:11:09.960 um, you know, matter. So, um, yeah, the, that's really where that came from. And, um, and it just

00:11:17.040 continued really. Um, and it just became a way for me to, you know, I, one of the things I like to say

00:11:23.640 is that I believe that creation is one of the greatest acts of worship, you know, to use, to use

00:11:29.260 the talents that you have been granted by the gods and ancestors to the greatest effect possible.

00:11:34.940 Yeah. So, yeah. So to me, it kind of made sense that my music, which, um, I guess was an emerging

00:11:42.640 talent would be, uh, in return honoring the, uh, the tradition that, you know, the ancestors and the

00:11:51.240 gods that I believe bestowed that talent upon me. Yeah. It makes perfect sense. And, uh, yeah,

00:11:57.720 I completely agree, uh, for, uh, on a historical note, also the, the scald and the bard, they were

00:12:03.480 always held up in high esteem in, uh, in Germanic society. So, uh, yeah, music is, uh, is great.

00:12:09.760 So since we are on the topic, when you, when you made the famous, uh, survive the jive intro,

00:12:15.100 can you give us the backstory of that particular tune? Yeah, sure. Yeah. Um, I, yeah, I was, um,

00:12:21.240 I think I wrote that song when my first daughter, I have three daughters and my eldest is nine,

00:12:28.240 uh, when she was, I think she was just one or maybe not even one yet. And, uh, we were living

00:12:35.540 in the South of England and on Saturdays, my wife would work, uh, uh, like a part-time job, uh, in a 0.80

00:12:42.340 tattoo studio. And I would stay at home looking after my daughter. And we also had two big dogs at

00:12:47.900 the time. So my task on that day was that I had to walk our dogs as well as take my daughter with

00:12:53.420 us. So I put her in the, uh, the back carrier and, uh, I'd take the dogs out and we'd go on some nice

00:12:59.000 long walks, you know, in a couple of hours and near to the house we were living at the time, there

00:13:03.720 was some, uh, hills. We used to walk up the hills and walk along the ridge of the hill. And one time

00:13:10.640 we were walking just as the sun was setting and, uh, I stopped and, uh, and I said to my daughter,

00:13:17.100 cause I was very keen from an early age to, to, um, kind of instill in her the, the reverence of

00:13:24.020 the, of the sun and the moon and nature in general. So I said to her, I said, look, uh, the sun setting,

00:13:30.300 you know, like good night, son. And she, she repeated after me, she said, good night, son. She

00:13:35.000 actually started to become very emotional. She, she started crying because she didn't want the sun to go

00:13:40.020 to bed. And, uh, and this is when I, I kind of thought, um, this is when it kind of hit me, the,

00:13:47.720 the, um, you know, the, the embodiment of the sun of sunnah as this conscious deity and, uh, the idea

00:13:56.820 for the lyrics, um, of, of hailing sunnah and, uh, um, you know, it was, it's basically a hymn to the sun

00:14:05.480 and it was inspired by the kind of emotional response that my daughter had had to the, to

00:14:10.440 the setting sun. And that's why it's kind of, I mean, I don't know how people listening to it

00:14:16.680 feel about the lyrics to that song, but it's quite childlike, like the, the lyrics are very,

00:14:22.180 it's almost like a nursery rhyme. And I was actually very, very reluctant to put that on the

00:14:28.220 first Walkinsman album because yeah, yeah. Really reluctant because I felt that it wasn't sophisticated

00:14:34.280 enough, like lyrically, you know, and musically, to be honest, it's a very, very simple song

00:14:40.280 musically and, and lyrically. And I felt like it was kind of too childlike, um, in comparison to the

00:14:48.280 rest of the songs on that album. Um, and you know, I, I just kind of went with it and it did end up on

00:14:54.820 the album. Uh, and I'm obviously very glad that it did. And, you know, no one has ever come to me

00:14:59.340 and said, Oh yeah, you know, that song that's, that's, um, kind of incongruous. It's quite

00:15:03.620 childlike compared to the rest of them. No one's ever said that. So I think it's just me who feels

00:15:07.900 that way, but yeah, yeah, probably. Um, and I mean, for me personally, it's a, it's a very

00:15:12.420 beautiful story, very beautiful backstory to the, to the song. Uh, so it's, uh, it's nice. I suppose

00:15:18.640 most of our listeners now are also fans of survive the jive. I am, of course, I'm a good friend of

00:15:24.860 his and also a great fan of his videos. So, um, so yeah, I, I have good associations with

00:15:31.040 the song as well that, you know, when it comes on, you know, it's time for some, uh, some

00:15:35.340 good enlightenment. So, uh, yeah, good, good song on all accounts. Thank you. Yeah. So

00:15:41.460 you mentioned just as a, as a short side note here, you mentioned, uh, Lucifer, have you

00:15:47.480 read Otto Rahn's books, um, crusade against the grail and, uh, Lucifer's court?

00:15:54.860 I have not, no. Okay. No. So basically what he, what he, um, uh, his theory is that Lucifer

00:16:03.140 was connected to an ancient Indo-European sun god that was later, uh, vilified by Christianity.

00:16:11.500 Now, speaking of Tom survived the jive, I did actually ask him about it and he said that there

00:16:17.140 weren't any, um, any historical evidence to back it up, but I thought to mention it at

00:16:23.160 least because the, um, uh, Lucifer's court was one of the first books I reviewed when

00:16:29.220 I started reviewing books. So for everyone who, um, who has read all of those, it might

00:16:34.360 be familiar at least. So, uh, it's always interesting when, when Lucifer, uh, comes up

00:16:39.440 in discussions, but I suppose when you encountered him, that was more of a, uh, as in a satanic

00:16:45.880 sense, right? Yeah. Initially, um, you know, those, those kind of, you know, the, the, the

00:16:52.940 bands that I had become, um, you know, infatuated with musically or the, you know, as far as they

00:17:00.240 were concerned, Satan was Lucifer, Lucifer was Satan, you know, it was a very, very surface

00:17:04.940 level understanding. Um, I, I do, you know, I, I'm not, um, well versed on the subject,

00:17:11.940 but I do personally separate the two, uh, entities, Satan and Lucifer very much so. And I, I actually

00:17:19.860 do, uh, equate Lucifer with, um, possibly even with our God, Woden, you know, if we were

00:17:26.500 to talk in, in this, in these kind of, um, you know, in terms of comparative mythology and

00:17:31.720 syncretism, um, I do, I do equate the two, um, because I mean, just, just in the name,

00:17:38.780 um, Lucifer being the light bringer, um, I don't see how that can be negative. So I, I would,

00:17:46.060 uh, I certainly would like to read those books that you mentioned, and I would instinctively

00:17:50.280 agree with the, um, the premise that Lucifer, um, has been corrupted by Christian sources.

00:17:57.320 Yeah, definitely. My, my heart, uh, tells me the same, uh, again, I, I am no scholar on

00:18:03.140 the matter, so I won't say anything more about it. Uh, those are interested. Yeah. The Otto

00:18:08.860 Rahn's book, uh, quite interesting. Now, of course he, um, he speculates quite a bit as

00:18:14.120 well. So, but as I, I posted yesterday on Telegram, um, about the English actually, uh, fittingly

00:18:23.180 enough since we're talking about the English now. Um, so basically I, sometimes I distinguish

00:18:28.980 between more esoteric and spiritual matters and, you know, purely historical matters. So

00:18:37.440 it's good. And I know that, uh, Stephen E. Flowers, speaking of my book reviews again, uh,

00:18:44.100 I have read quite a few of his books now he goes under two names. So his real name, Stephen

00:18:49.640 E. Flowers, PhD, and Edred Thorson, and he does this so he can separate his more scholarly

00:18:57.440 work. So he signs those books as, uh, Stephen E. Flowers, and then his more magical works where

00:19:04.360 he, yeah, he, he has a bit more license to go outside of the scholarly, uh, purely academic,

00:19:10.380 uh, those he signed with, um, um, um, he signs as Edred Thorson. So I also believe that

00:19:18.280 there is a value to not being all too, to not stare all too blindly at, uh, the purely scholarly,

00:19:26.440 especially if we're talking about matters of metaphysics. I mean, we need to sort of, uh,

00:19:31.120 explore and experiment a bit and yeah, follow the, the heart. What does our hearts tell us

00:19:36.940 about this, uh, metaphysical entities? So, um, yeah, interesting stuff for, for sure. So I thought

00:19:45.000 to get into the, the main question at hand, uh, which is regarding the runes. So for, um, for anyone

00:19:54.940 who's been following my, uh, my posts on my page and on, uh, and telegram, I have meditated

00:20:01.260 upon the elder Futhark. So that is the, it's not an alphabet because the runes, they are,

00:20:08.480 they are much more than just letters. Each contain, uh, contains a mystery, uh, teaching

00:20:14.720 and, uh, can be used in many different ways. So if we're saying that a rune such as, uh,

00:20:21.980 Fehu, so that's the first rune. That's why also it's called the Futhark because it's the

00:20:26.760 first letters of the, or the first runes of the, uh, the runic alphabet. So it contains

00:20:32.120 a teaching, a mystery, and, uh, you can use them in many different ways. So I am familiar

00:20:38.460 with the elder Futhark, uh, and there's also the, uh, Anglo-Saxon Futhark and I'm not familiar

00:20:47.880 with that at all. So I thought that you could elaborate a bit on, uh, some of the runes that,

00:20:55.000 uh, do appear in the Anglo-Saxon, uh, version, but they do not appear in, um, in the elder

00:21:01.860 Futhark. So, uh, I will just let you, uh, talk as much as you wish about this, uh, additional

00:21:07.680 runes.

00:21:09.540 Okay. Um, yeah, well, you know, firstly, I'll say that I'm, I'm no expert on it. I'm sure

00:21:15.720 someone like, uh, Tom Roussel could, uh, probably give a more academic, comprehensive overview,

00:21:21.940 but, um, it, I mean, I, I'm mostly familiar with the, uh, Futhark with the, uh, the Anglo-Frisian,

00:21:28.800 uh, runes. And these are, when I think, uh, when I translate something to runes or something

00:21:34.700 that I, I use the, the Futhark, um, um, you know, figures. Yeah. And, um, yeah, I mean,

00:21:43.000 but the interesting thing about the Futhark is that by the end of the, uh, English pagan era,

00:21:50.200 there were 33 runes. Uh, so with the, the, it's, um, and partly this is because of the

00:21:59.880 Latin, you know, because England was one of the first, uh, Germanic lands to be Christianized.

00:22:06.320 So because of the Latin influence and having Latin characters, you know, uh, sounds that

00:22:12.360 weren't naturally within the old English language were entering the language through the manuscripts

00:22:17.860 and things like this. So, uh, you know, the, the, um, the, the common academic view is that

00:22:25.560 runes were created to account for those sounds. Uh, you know, we have, uh, like, uh, algis or

00:22:31.820 elxedge as it's called in, uh, English, which is for the X sound. And there is no X in the Germanic

00:22:39.200 language originally. So we have things like that, but the thing that's always, you know, and, uh, I mean,

00:22:45.660 you know, there are some other kinds of changes as well, which, uh, you know, I can't necessarily

00:22:49.800 explain, um, like, whereas the, in the elder Futhark, uh, Futhark, sorry, you had, uh, Othala

00:22:57.140 to represent the O sound. Whereas in the, uh, Anglo runes, uh, the, the O sound became represented

00:23:06.040 by the Os rune, um, which is like the kind of, uh, it's, uh, you know, the, to describe for the

00:23:13.740 listeners, it's like the, the rune that looks like an F, but instead of having, uh, two, two, uh, straight,

00:23:19.640 uh, diagonal lines, it had that, uh, kind of bent both of them. Yeah. So yeah, there are just some

00:23:27.340 differences like this. So, you know, for example, when I, someone who's, uh, more familiar with the

00:23:32.320 elder Futhark would, uh, transcribe O using the Othala rune, whereas I would do it using the

00:23:39.960 Os rune. Um, but, um, the thing that's always fascinated me most, uh, about the, the English

00:23:47.460 runes, the 33 runes is the addition of some perhaps mystical runes, which don't exist in any

00:23:56.080 of the other runic alphabets. Um, and in the, uh, in the English runes, we have the, the

00:24:02.240 hallows or the, or as some suggest possibly the grail runes. So we actually have runes

00:24:08.380 at the end of the row, which represent, uh, um, objects from the grail mythos. And we have

00:24:16.720 the, and, uh, sorry to interject. I, I just have to voice my enthusiasm as, uh, as I told you

00:24:22.280 before. And as probably most of my listeners know, I am a great, uh, enthusiast of the grail

00:24:29.020 legend. So, uh, when I found out that there were runes connected to it, I got, um, yeah,

00:24:34.940 suitably excited. So, uh, yeah, do, do continue. I just want to do interject with that.

00:24:40.060 Yeah, no, of course. And, and actually, uh, to tie into what you were just talking about,

00:24:44.100 Edred Thorsen, if you, uh, if you pick up his book, Alu, uh, there's, uh, the final,

00:24:51.060 final appendix in that book at the very, very end of the book, he writes, um, a short chapter

00:24:56.480 on this very subject, uh, which is really one of my first introductions to this idea of the grail

00:25:03.960 runes. Um, so if anyone's interested in kind of, uh, learning more, I definitely recommend having a

00:25:10.320 look at that. But, um, yeah, in essence, we have the, um, we have, uh, Kwayoth, which, uh, is, uh,

00:25:19.340 supposedly means fire twirl. It's, this is, uh, the kind of commonly accepted view of that. Um,

00:25:27.200 it's the, it's kind of the rune that, that's, uh, tied to cremation or destructive fire, you know,

00:25:33.640 a fire that, uh, destroys something, uh, but also transformation. But, um, interestingly, and this,

00:25:39.900 this is one of the kind of more speculative aspects of this, but, um, the, the, the heathen,

00:25:45.960 uh, thinker and writer, um, uh, Wolf Ingersen, who, uh, has suggested that Kwayoth may actually

00:25:53.580 be a miss, um, uh, a miss, uh, writing of, uh, Swayoth meaning sword. So it may actually

00:26:02.780 be a rune that represents the sword. Um, and, uh, that's kind of interesting in the context

00:26:10.080 of, obviously of the grail mythos, but, um, more attested, we have, uh, the, uh, the runes,

00:26:17.760 uh, Kalk, which is chalice. Um, and we have Gar, which is, uh, spear and we have Stan, which

00:26:29.780 is stone. So there we have, uh, you know, four or three, potentially four objects, which are

00:26:36.020 closely related to the grail mythos. And, uh, they're, they're also, they're also known

00:26:40.900 as the, the, the, the four hallows, um, which relates to the Irish mythology of the Tuatha

00:26:47.900 de Danann. Um, they had, uh, in the mythology of the Tuatha de Danann, they had the, the

00:26:54.480 stone of phal, the spear of glue, the sword of Noada and Dagda's cauldron, which obviously

00:27:01.380 is kind of a cauldron is, uh, like a, another kind of representation of the chalice idea,

00:27:06.100 uh, the cup, you know, a receptacle that's holding, um, you know, something. Yeah. So,

00:27:12.940 um, yeah, the, these, these really started to fascinate me and actually, you know, to tie

00:27:17.280 this into my musical exploits, uh, I pretty much kind of based a whole, um, a whole album

00:27:25.720 on this idea. Um, the second Wolkinsman album, Fire in the White Stone. Ah, right, right. Yeah.

00:27:32.420 The whole idea for that album came about because of particularly my focus on the rune calc, um,

00:27:38.260 or as I think some say that it should be pronounced calc, but it strictly speaking calc

00:27:44.440 is chalk. So I was thinking, well, you have calc, which is meant to, meant to represent chalice

00:27:50.360 in its runic form, but also, uh, linguistically relates to the word chalk. And then I started

00:27:57.140 to look into this and found that originally, uh, in old England chalk was, it didn't refer

00:28:03.280 to a specific, uh, type of mineral, but just to any white stone in general. So then I was

00:28:10.840 kind of thinking, right, we have it within this one rune, we have the idea of a chalice and

00:28:16.300 a white stone. Um, so then I started to think, well, you know, what else, who, who else has

00:28:23.580 talked about white stones? And I did some research and discovered that historically, uh, you know,

00:28:28.660 going back into time immemorial, back into antiquity, white stones have always been associated

00:28:34.420 with the spirit world and have been held as sacred. And there were, um, I found some documents

00:28:41.220 of, uh, even like Christian, um, like, uh, priests and things who were, um, using white stones for

00:28:49.820 certain, um, rituals back in Ireland. And, you know, you, I don't know what it's like in, in Sweden,

00:28:56.900 but here in England, you quite commonly, if you go to a graveyard, you'll often find that many of the

00:29:01.340 graves are covered with white stones. Yeah. Yeah. Same, same. Yeah. Yeah. Small white stones. So,

00:29:07.020 you know, there's, there's this, there's this connection between, um, spirituality and religion

00:29:12.480 and the idea of, of white stones. There's something kind of symbolic there. So, um, I created this

00:29:18.520 whole kind of my, I created my kind of my own grail story and, you know, I don't, it doesn't seem like

00:29:25.040 many people realize that to accompany that album, I did write a short story by the same name, fire in

00:29:29.680 the white stone. Um, and it's kind of my own little version of the grail mythos, um, you know, taking

00:29:36.140 in kind of all of these different esoteric ideas and kind of combining these more, uh, classical or,

00:29:44.500 um, Arthurian ideas with the Germanic ideas. Um, and that's something as well that I think few people

00:29:52.880 seem to be aware of, like, uh, for example, we also have the, um, in Volsunga's saga, we have

00:30:00.740 Sigmund pulling the sword from the barnstocker tree from the oak tree, which obviously is highly

00:30:08.420 similar to the, uh, you know, Arthur pulling the sword from the stone. Yeah. There is this connection

00:30:13.680 between Germanic, um, uh, legend and Arthurian legend. And in fire in the white stone, I was trying to

00:30:21.380 kind of bring them together in my own way, uh, focused mostly upon this particular rune, the

00:30:27.260 Kalk rune. So yeah, that's, uh, yeah, I've talked for quite a long time now. So all right. Awesome.

00:30:33.520 Yeah. Really interesting stuff. Really, really appreciate it. So would you say that this, uh,

00:30:39.240 this common themes in both, uh, British and Germanic lore, would you say that they go back to,

00:30:47.180 um, a shared Indo-European, uh, ancestry and spirituality? I, I'm not entirely sure about

00:30:53.700 that, but what, but I will add that Edward Thorson, uh, mentions in the aforementioned

00:30:59.840 appendix to his book, Alu, he mentions that, um, this, these concepts may have come to, uh, the very

00:31:08.760 northern part of England because it, these, these runes arose in Northumbria, uh, uh, to begin with in

00:31:14.280 the very northern part of England near the border with Scotland. And, um, this was an area where the

00:31:20.660 Romans actually had, uh, certain mercenaries who were drawn from the Eastern world. Um, and they had

00:31:28.260 Alans there, you know, from the Alan tribe, the Alanic tribe who were, um, closely related to, uh,

00:31:35.320 the Scythians and, uh, in, uh, Scythian law, um, the, at the origin of the world, uh, certain objects

00:31:44.500 came down to mankind, the plow, the yoke, the battleaxe and the cup. So obviously again, we have

00:31:51.460 this kind of echo of the, the grail objects of the hallows there of the Tuatha de Danann. Um, so

00:31:58.560 Edward Thorson suggests that the, the, these ideas may have been brought to the far North

00:32:04.060 of England, uh, to Britain in general, even by the Scythians via the Alans.

00:32:11.400 Oh, right, right.

00:32:12.260 Yeah. Which, which is an interesting thought, but I mean, I think I would suggest that these

00:32:17.500 ideas go back much further than the Roman era, which is when the, these Alans would have 1.00

00:32:22.940 been stationed in Britain. So yeah, I don't know whether there's, there was some earlier

00:32:28.280 contact with the Scythians or whether, you know, as certain philosophers have suggested

00:32:34.000 that these kind of Indo-European ideas actually went from West to East rather than from East

00:32:41.800 to West. You know, we, there are people who believe that. Um, so I can, yeah, I can only

00:32:47.000 speculate on where the origin is, but there does seem to be this commonality between the, um,

00:32:53.100 the ancient beliefs of the Scythians with the ancient beliefs of the Irish as well.

00:32:58.280 As well as the, uh, obviously the, the Norse sagas with Volsunga saga and, and the, uh,

00:33:04.000 barnstocker tree and Sigmund. Um, these Arthurian ideas seem to crop up in, in various places

00:33:12.260 across Europe. And I'm actually, uh, currently reading a book called Tales of the Nats, which

00:33:17.860 is a collection of stories of, um, the, uh, ancient Ossetians, uh, you know, who were the

00:33:24.080 people who, um, inhabit, inhabited the land, um, uh, I guess, East of, uh, Crimea, uh, you know,

00:33:33.180 kind of where the modern day Georgians are. Yeah. And, uh, the, in the, I'm not far into the book,

00:33:40.000 but in the introduction to the book, the, the translator suggests that, um, actually many of the

00:33:47.380 ideas of Celtic Britain originally came from, uh, Assetia. So I'm kind of very curious to see as I

00:33:54.740 go on further with the book to see which, uh, similarities crop up, you know, maybe whether

00:33:59.240 any of these grail ideas crop up in this book, the tale of the Nats as well. So, uh, yeah, I mean,

00:34:05.560 I've, yeah, I've always been very interested in comparative mythology, you know, uh, the work of

00:34:10.300 Joseph Campbell and things like that. Uh, to me, I've always felt that when you have the same ideas

00:34:16.440 being affirmed by, you know, seemingly unrelated cultures, then there you can find the truth

00:34:24.260 because, you know, there's no such thing as coincidence when it comes to things like that.

00:34:28.320 If these, if these important, um, spiritual ideas are arising in various places at the same time,

00:34:34.320 then I think you're getting close to the truth. Yeah, I definitely completely agree.

00:34:39.720 Uh, so just on a personal note, I, I thought to mention the following because I know there are

00:34:45.740 always some misunderstandings when I post about, uh, Hinduism or Vedic spirituality or, uh, different

00:34:54.040 religious traditions. I'm not doing it to sort of fetishize an exotic other. I'm doing it to gain

00:35:02.040 a deeper understanding of the Indo-European spirit. So I want to get as, as deep as possible into

00:35:08.700 that sacred spirit of the Indo-Europeans. And that's also why I find, uh, comparative mythology

00:35:15.780 so interesting. If we can find the same story in Ireland, in Scandinavia, in India, and then we can

00:35:22.040 derive, go back even deeper to the, the original Indo-European spirit. So that is why I, yeah, if, 0.79

00:35:29.480 if someone follows me on, on Telegram or Instagram or whatever, sees me post about some,

00:35:34.900 um, some cool esoteric teaching from, uh, from the East, uh, it's not because it's from the East,

00:35:40.620 but because it's, uh, a pathway leading back to the Indo-European spirit. So, uh, so yeah,

00:35:48.600 that's also why I, yeah, sure. Go ahead.

00:35:50.500 Isn't it funny how people get so like het up about that? You know, I, I, I have the same

00:35:56.100 kind of accusations thrown at me and, um, I, you know, I can understand people are obviously

00:36:00.940 very protective over their native indigenous culture and, and we don't want this kind of

00:36:06.700 outside unnecessary outside influence. You know, I fully understand that, but I think,

00:36:11.160 you know, like Marcus and myself, uh, the, the idea, I can't speak for you, but, um, as far as

00:36:18.940 I'm concerned, if something is income, if an, if a concept from the East is incompatible with our

00:36:25.640 native Northwest, Northwestern European tradition, then it gets rejected. Absolutely. We're not,

00:36:31.140 we're not trying to shoehorn these alien concepts into our, um, into our tradition. It's just that if we

00:36:36.860 can find, um, something that, that reaffirms or backs up or maybe sheds new light on something

00:36:43.000 that already exists within our tradition, then that gives it a richness, I would say. Um, and to me,

00:36:50.680 it's, it's, it's about, um, being able to put your cultural veneer on top of, um, in top of,

00:36:57.940 on top of timeless, uh, concepts. Um, you know, it's, it's the, the cultural veneer, which makes the

00:37:04.820 difference. You know, there are certain fundamental truths to existence. Um, but each ethnicity

00:37:11.100 sees those truths through a different lens. Um, and to me, to me, that's the important thing. You

00:37:17.600 know, it's not like we're, we're going to start, you know, referring to, uh, Shiva and Shakti and

00:37:22.640 things like that. It's that, you know, we can, we can look at the mythology of the Vedic tradition

00:37:27.860 or the Assetian tradition, or, you know, the, in my case, the Gnostic tradition or whatever. And we can

00:37:33.540 say, okay, well, that aligns quite closely with what already exists in our tradition. And that can

00:37:40.080 kind of give us a sort of confidence in, um, what our tradition is presenting to us.

00:37:46.160 Yeah, definitely. Beautifully stated. Now I, uh, I read Julius Evola's The Doctrine of Awakening,

00:37:52.640 and he, he makes the case in the entire book that Buddhism, uh, is basically, uh, an Indo-European

00:37:58.460 spirituality that later on has been, of course, um, altered by contact with non-Indo-European 0.89

00:38:07.200 influences, but originally, just as originally the Vedic tradition, it was a product of Indo-European

00:38:15.780 spirituality. So of course we can say that, um, sort of similar to Christianity, how Christianity,

00:38:21.860 it was originally a non-European spirituality, but then it was so infused, especially during

00:38:28.080 the, um, middle ages in, in Europe, in the Germanic lands. It was very altered. So we

00:38:34.020 can say that it's something different now, just as, uh, Hinduism is different now than

00:38:39.960 it was, uh, when the Indo-Europeans first conquered India, but that doesn't mean that the, the origins

00:38:47.580 of it is foreign to us. So for me, I view it as, you know, a spirituality that can be traced

00:38:54.180 back to the Indo-European conquests. And that is of particular importance, uh, or interest

00:39:00.760 to me at least. So when I look at this ancient traditions, I am not necessarily, I'm not saying

00:39:06.060 that how Hinduism looks today in India, that's not necessarily what I'm looking at. I'm looking

00:39:13.640 at the, the deeper path of it. So, and yeah, as you say, if we look at it in a, in a perennialist,

00:39:21.280 uh, from a perennialist perspective, if something has been true, uh, always everywhere, uh, for

00:39:28.080 everyone, yeah, there is probably, uh, some truth to it regardless by the way of, uh, of

00:39:33.360 ethnicity. Then of course, for me, uh, genetics and ethnicity, uh, it's interesting and important,

00:39:38.480 but there is also the, the perennialist aspect of, of metaphysics where, um, where we can

00:39:45.080 look at different traditions, such as, uh, religions from all over the world. If they

00:39:49.640 say that there is a fundamental truth, a fundamental underpinning of the world, then, uh, it's,

00:39:56.240 it's most likely the case. Uh, so yeah, interesting stuff.

00:40:00.620 Yeah. And on that note of Buddhism, uh, another thing that I've, I've been learning in reading

00:40:05.840 this book, Tales of the Nats about the, the ancient Assetians is that many of the names

00:40:11.480 of the characters in that book, um, are, um, heavily influenced by Mongolian culture. Um,

00:40:18.980 so that the Assetians who were closely related to the Scythians, they were looking both kind

00:40:25.940 of East and West, you know, it seems like, um, you know, they had a close contact with the

00:40:31.480 Mongolians with the, to, to the East of them, uh, who, you know, is coming close to the origin 0.95

00:40:37.480 of Buddhism, but they also had an influence upon the West. And there were, there are some

00:40:42.280 strong similarities in the, um, the Ossetian mythology to Celtic and Germanic, um, mythology.

00:40:49.920 So, um, yeah, I think, um, there's a lot to be uncovered, um, with, with regards to stuff

00:40:54.960 like that, to the Indo-European possible Indo-European origins of Buddhism and things like

00:40:59.360 that. Um, I think there's still a lot that we, we don't know, and I don't see any reason,

00:41:04.500 uh, why we shouldn't investigate these things.

00:41:08.020 Yeah, definitely. So tracing back to the, uh, the initial, um, uh, question of the Anglo-Saxon

00:41:14.600 runes. So you have the, a good few additional runes in the, uh, Anglo-Saxon Futhork. Uh, would

00:41:22.020 you say that those additional runes have developed specifically as a result of the, uh, the

00:41:29.060 Anglo-Saxon relationship with, with Britain and the Britons, or do you have any, uh, any

00:41:36.080 specific take on, on the relationship between the spiritual relationship between the, the

00:41:40.940 Britons and the Anglo-Saxons? 0.66

00:41:44.180 Um, that's an interesting topic. And it's one that I, I, I'm, you know, I dwell on quite a

00:41:49.180 lot, seeing as how, um, about a month and a half ago, I actually relocated to Wales.

00:41:54.980 Oh, right. So, um, I actually live in the Britonic lands now. Um, and, uh, so I, it's,

00:42:02.500 it is of interest me to, it is of interest to me to, uh, uncover, um, any, you know, perhaps

00:42:09.980 similarities, some commonalities, but I would have to say that from what I am aware of, I

00:42:15.120 don't think that there was any Britonic, um, or Celtic as such, uh, uh, influence upon

00:42:23.140 the Anglo-Saxon runes. I think that the, the additional runes in, in, uh, of the English

00:42:29.320 rune row of the Futhork, I think that comes more from the, um, influence of Latin manuscripts

00:42:37.040 into England at quite an early point. As I said, you know, there are, um, there are sounds

00:42:43.740 and letters in Latin, which didn't exist in old English. So I think that, um, I guess,

00:42:52.680 you know, to, to speculate and, you know, someone who's more, more knowledgeable might be able

00:42:56.840 to, um, to verify this, but I guess in the early days of the, um, translation of the Latin

00:43:04.100 manuscripts, uh, they were probably first written in runes, uh, or certainly partly in,

00:43:10.440 in runes. And I know that there are examples of codexes, which, uh, are written in the Latin

00:43:17.540 alphabet, but have runes in dispersed in the language. So, um, I think it, I think that the

00:43:23.760 extra runes come, comes from this early relationship between the Latin world and Germanic England and

00:43:30.460 the need to, to account for certain sounds and letters, which didn't exist in the Germanic

00:43:35.780 language. Uh, as I said, uh, Algiz is an example when it became X, uh, which is not a letter that

00:43:42.360 was found in, in English to begin with. Um, the, yeah. And other sounds like, uh, yeah, to, to separate

00:43:50.000 the, the, uh, sound from R, you know, um, we have the, the, uh, arc rune and the ask rune, you know,

00:43:58.020 oak and dash and, and different just to account for these nuances. So I think that the additional

00:44:05.180 runes come from two, two, two areas. I think it's partly the Latin influence and I think it's partly,

00:44:12.120 uh, possibly this, uh, grail, um, these hallows, which I say may have come from,

00:44:19.980 uh, being influenced by Irish mythology or British mythology. Uh, may he even have come

00:44:26.640 via the, uh, uh, from the Scythians via the Allens. Um, but yeah, I don't, I don't think

00:44:33.060 there's, I mean, it's, uh, you know, even though a lot of people consider England, uh, you know,

00:44:39.260 a partly kind of Celtic country and genetically we are, you know, roughly half and half Celto-Germanic,

00:44:46.160 but linguistically and culturally we are almost entirely Germanic. I mean, if you look through

00:44:53.140 the, the, you know, if you, if you take the English vocabulary and you take out all of the French

00:44:59.440 and Latin words, which came in via the Normans, there are hardly any Celtic words in the English

00:45:05.800 language. Uh, you know, I mean, uh, um, one common example is the word dad for father, which is,

00:45:12.740 comes from Welsh origin. Um, but other than that, there are very, very, very few Brithonic words in

00:45:19.620 the English language. Um, and speaking as someone who now lives in, you know, a part of Britain where

00:45:25.900 people regularly speak Welsh, it is a very, very alien language to me. You know, I mean, I, I, I,

00:45:33.660 I love the sound of it and I hope to learn, you know, some simple Welsh, um, but it's very,

00:45:38.760 very different from English. All right. Yeah, no, makes, makes perfect sense. The, the explanation

00:45:45.100 of the additional runes. So you have a rune on your, uh, on the Wilkinsman profile picture or,

00:45:52.860 or the album, which rune is that? Oh, uh, on the first album, the, that's the, uh,

00:45:59.080 the bind rune for, which represents the name Wilkinsman. So that is my kind of logo. Uh,

00:46:04.500 that would be, I assume you're referring to the rune that's in the center of, um, songs from the

00:46:10.100 Fergen is kind of like a snowy woodland, uh, picture with a, a golden rune in the middle. Uh,

00:46:16.640 yeah, that's the, the bind rune, which is serves as my logo for Wilkinsman. And that's a, um,

00:46:22.080 that's a bind rune combining, uh, the man rune, uh, the tear rune and the Ken or Kenaz. So, um,

00:46:33.560 yeah, the, the, the reason that I'm assuming you're interested in knowing why I chose those runes.

00:46:38.060 Yeah. Yeah. Definitely. Yeah. Those came about because I was trying to represent the concept,

00:46:42.480 concept of Wilkinsman in runic form. Uh, Wilkin comes from the old English word, meaning the heavens

00:46:49.040 or the clouds, uh, and in middle English that became Wilkin. Uh, so, you know, this, this is

00:46:55.640 again, this is a word that I was introduced to via black metal because, uh, the well-known black

00:46:59.720 metal band Emperor have an album called anthems to the Wilkin at dusk. And I was always, uh, you

00:47:05.420 know, curious as to what, what a Wilkin was. Um, so yeah, that, that was a word that I became quite

00:47:11.840 interested in and it came to influence the name of my project, but I went back to the old English

00:47:17.160 form of the word, which is Wolkin. So essentially Wolkinsman means men of the heavens or men of the

00:47:22.780 clouds. Um, and so in, in seeking to represent that in runic form, obviously I have the man rune

00:47:30.660 to represent men. I have the, uh, tear rune to represent sky. You know, I know it's debatable

00:47:36.460 as to whether tear is the sky father or, or not, but, uh, you know, at the time that I came up with

00:47:41.460 it, that's, that was my thinking. Yeah. And then I have the Ken or Kenaz rune, um, because

00:47:46.400 that's the rune of guidance. So, um, kind of represents the whole idea of the project is

00:47:51.700 it's about kind of guiding, um, guiding men to, uh, more noble mindset or a more noble

00:47:59.260 sense of spirituality. Yeah. Makes, uh, makes perfect sense. So for anyone who's listening

00:48:05.460 now and, uh, yeah, who's interested in, uh, starting with the runes, starting to get, uh,

00:48:11.580 you know, uh, uh, uh, an introductory understanding of them, where would you recommend starting?

00:48:17.620 So there are certain books which I would recommend. Uh, what the, the book that I probably go back

00:48:21.520 to most often is called, uh, rudiments of rune law by, uh, Stephen Pollington. And, uh, he's

00:48:28.100 an English guy who's wrote, you know, many great books on, uh, you know, old English and

00:48:33.720 old, uh, heathen English culture. And it's a very, very thin book. It's, it's not a big

00:48:38.760 book at all, but it's, uh, absolutely packed full of excellent information. You know, it

00:48:44.880 reproduces the, the main rune poems, the Norwegian, the Icelandic, uh, the English, um, it represents

00:48:53.300 the rune poems. It also gives some examples of runic inscribings on swords and things like

00:48:59.380 that. Um, it discusses the alu runic formula, which is also something I drew heavily upon

00:49:07.560 for my second album, fire in the white stone. Um, that's probably like a whole other topic,

00:49:13.720 um, that could, you know, take time to get into, but anyway, yeah. Rudiments of rune

00:49:17.880 law by Stephen Pollington is a book that I highly recommend. And Edward Thorson, he kind of divides

00:49:23.760 people. He's divisive. There are some, some people in our heathen circles who really don't

00:49:29.620 like him, don't approve of his work at all. Um, personally, I think that his books, Futhark

00:49:36.420 and Alu, if you just take them, um, in isolation and separate them from him, I think that most

00:49:44.180 of the information, most of the knowledge in those books is, is highly valuable. I think

00:49:48.600 you can get a very, very good understanding of the runes, um, and particularly the esoteric side

00:49:54.120 of the runes from those books. Whereas Stephen Pollington's book, uh, rudiments of rune law is a

00:49:59.020 bit more academic. It's a bit more kind of on the nose. It doesn't veer into esoteric or speculative

00:50:04.520 territory too much. I will just say though, uh, sorry for interjecting, I must come into the defense

00:50:11.080 of, uh, of Stephen Flowers. I know I have heard some criticism of him as well, but from my perspective

00:50:17.200 as, um, as a pagan, as someone who's interested in our ancestors, uh, someone who's interested

00:50:24.520 in magic, uh, esoteric matters, uh, for me, he is one of my favorite authors and I read quite

00:50:30.980 a lot of books and, uh, I am very thankful for him, um, for having, um, given me all of

00:50:39.520 this enlightenment in his books. So I know of course he has, you know, as, um, as an esoteric

00:50:45.000 seeker, we could call him, uh, he will of course have come into contact with some, uh, less than

00:50:51.520 glorious, uh, occult traditions, but that's what happens, uh, when you are a seeker. Same thing

00:50:58.200 if we're talking politically speaking for someone who's a political commentator, it's inevitable

00:51:02.780 that they will eventually talk to someone, uh, with, you know, political views that are quite

00:51:09.280 different. So for me, Steven flowers, he's a seeker. And as such, he, he was always bound

00:51:15.680 to come into contact with stuff that perhaps is outside of the, uh, the interest of a practitioner

00:51:24.000 of paganism. So for me, I'm a fan of Steven flowers. I don't know him personally, so I can't

00:51:29.520 vouch for everything is said and done, but just looking at his books. So the books signed as

00:51:35.080 Steven flowers and Edred Thorson. I think they are great. And, uh, yeah, I can recommend

00:51:39.960 most of them. Um, I haven't read all of course, but the ones I have read, uh, are great.

00:51:44.640 Yeah. Sorry. Continue. That's no, that's really well put Marcus. Actually. I mean, I think that's

00:51:50.160 an important distinction to make, you know, if someone is a seeker, you, you, I mean, you

00:51:54.980 know, we have a, a phrase in, in the kind of Germanic heathen world, rain till runa seek 0.55

00:51:59.800 the mysteries. Um, and I believe that may even be something that came from Steven, uh,

00:52:04.780 Steven flowers, Edred Thorson, um, or certainly I've seen him use that phrase. And it, that's

00:52:11.380 something that I've always stood by. You know, if, if you are truly going to uncover the truth

00:52:16.000 of this existence, then you are going to venture into a murky territory. It's inevitable as,

00:52:22.100 as you say, and we need to separate the, um, the willingness to do that from, um, actually,

00:52:30.060 uh, condoning those things, which you explore, you know, just because you have touched upon

00:52:34.900 a certain subject or spoken to a certain person, that doesn't mean that you condone it. And

00:52:39.820 I think, um, people in our circles are often too quick to, um, to, to accuse someone of guilt

00:52:48.360 by association. Um, whereas I don't see anything wrong with speaking to someone who you may even

00:52:54.960 fundamentally disagree with on certain things. Um, but there, you can find those commonalities.

00:53:00.340 So yeah, I agree. I think, uh, Edred Thorson's work is pretty valuable when I was on, uh, Facebook

00:53:05.520 years ago, I was, you know, a Facebook friend of Steven flowers and he was actually quite helpful.

00:53:12.200 You know, if I, if I posted something, uh, that related to his area of expertise, he would often

00:53:19.460 comment and offer quite insightful, um, remarks. So, um, yeah, I think he's, um, I think, I think

00:53:26.980 he means well, I think he's, yeah, he's maybe ventured into areas which you or I may not, um,

00:53:32.060 be interested in or approve of, but as you say, he's a seeker. Um, so it's inevitable. So yeah.

00:53:38.380 Yeah. Uh, speak of which I might as well say this now, because the last, my latest book review was of,

00:53:44.380 uh, Alistair Crowley's, uh, for books of magic. And obviously, uh, obviously I, I don't condone

00:53:51.940 of Alistair Crowley's life. I have been quite outspoken against, uh, the generosity overall over

00:53:59.020 the last, um, five, six, seven years. So of course I don't condone of Alistair Crowley's lifestyle of,

00:54:06.160 uh, hedonism and, and drug abuse. Uh, just, I, I don't, I didn't think I was, I needed to

00:54:14.360 say this, but apparently still, as soon as I post something, there will be certain people who just

00:54:19.740 automatically assume that I, for that sake, endorse, uh, the book I'm reading. So I, I don't

00:54:27.960 endorse Alistair Crowley. I've read his book because I, um, I was interested in hearing his take

00:54:34.760 on, um, on magic and metaphysics. So that's the, that's the reason.

00:54:40.920 Yeah. It's a shame that you have to even declare that, but you know.

00:54:43.660 Yeah. I mean, for most people I don't, but I always get to comment and, uh, and yeah, so,

00:54:48.060 uh, but anyway, we are, uh, coming to a close of this, uh, this, uh, great interview. Uh, it's

00:54:55.240 been really nice talking to you, really nice getting some, some deeper insights into the,

00:54:59.500 the Anglo-Saxon runes as well. As I said, I, I mainly focused on the, the elder Futhark, but, uh,

00:55:06.880 I, I'm definitely interested in, uh, meditating upon the, the Anglo-Saxon ones as well.

00:55:14.060 So for, uh, anyone who's interested in, in your work, where, uh, can they find you?

00:55:19.840 Well, yeah, firstly, um, yeah, real pleasure to finally speak with you, Marcus. Uh, you

00:55:23.800 know, I've, I've followed your work for years and, um, I've, I've always admired what you,

00:55:28.000 what you do and the messages that you convey and things like that. So, um, yeah, it's been,

00:55:32.000 uh, been an honor speaking with you.

00:55:33.560 Oh, thank you. Thank you.

00:55:35.160 No, you're welcome. And, um, yeah, I, I, I mean, for those interested in my music,

00:55:39.020 uh, walkensman.com that's W O L C E N S M E N.com. That's, that's, uh, got links to everything

00:55:47.480 relevant. Uh, my bandcamp page where you can hear and, and, you know, if you, if you feel like it by,

00:55:53.300 by any of my music, um, there's also a Walkensman channel. Um, I've got videos on there, such as,

00:55:59.960 uh, the live performances from pagan futures earlier this year. Um, those who are more

00:56:06.920 interested in my, um, heathen or philosophical or, uh, sociopolitical musings, uh, might be

00:56:14.720 interested to follow the Fergan on telegram or, uh, on odyssey or YouTube. I don't really post too

00:56:21.800 much to odyssey or YouTube, uh, anymore. My main focus has been on the Fergan podcast,

00:56:27.280 which I've been doing now, uh, for several months. And I'm on episode 18 of that. Uh,

00:56:33.840 the whole idea of that was to, um, give, because it's, I've been quite, you know, aware of the fact

00:56:40.760 for a long time that, you know, those who are interested in heathenry or paganism, it can seem

00:56:46.220 very daunting. You don't know where to begin. You don't know if you're doing things wrong. You're

00:56:50.460 worried about doing things wrong. So I tried to kind of create, particularly with the first two

00:56:54.780 episodes of the podcast, I tried to create a kind of beginner's introduction to paganism as I see it,

00:57:00.420 you know, just my kind of own view on it and how I came to this, uh, onto this path.

00:57:07.280 Uh, and the feedback has been very positive. People have, um, you know, I've heard from lots

00:57:11.300 of people that they found the episodes very useful. Uh, and then there are some episodes where I,

00:57:16.120 I speak more about kind of the current thing, so to speak. Um, so yeah, those, those are where

00:57:23.280 people can find me. And, um, yeah, thank you very much for, um, for inviting me on Marcus.

00:57:28.660 All right. Awesome. And I will put all the links in, uh, the description box below so you can

00:57:33.440 follow Hulkansman and listen to those, uh, interesting sounding episodes. So yeah,

00:57:38.780 thanks again. And, uh, thank you everyone who has been listening. XOXO. Boom.

The Golden One - October 16, 2022

Talking to Dan of Wolcensmen About Paganism and the Anglo-Saxon Runes

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript