AMERICA IS REAPING THE CONSEQUENCES OF TURNING AWAY FROM GOD OVER THE LAST 50-60 YEARS
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Summary
Pastor Robert Jeffress of the Dallas First Baptist Church in Dallas, Texas joins Lou Dobbs on the Great America Show to talk about the madness that has gripped the planet and surely the United States. Pastor Jeffress talks about the craziness that has swept across the globe, and the question is: Has the world gone mad?
Transcript
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Hello everybody, I'm Lou Dobbs and welcome to the Great America Show.
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Today we're talking with Pastor Robert Jeffress about the madness that has gripped the planet
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and surely the United States. Whether it's Chinese viruses spreading around the planet
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or Chinese rocket boosters falling to earth, Putin invading Ukraine, or Marxist Dems trying
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for a sixth straight year to politically persecute an innocent president one more time.
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Three years of the past six, the FBI has been investigating President Donald Trump and
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in every instance the top officials of the FBI knew he was innocent, that the Russian
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collusion hoax was crafted by Hillary Clinton's campaign, years of FBI investigation, a special
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counsel investigation, two presidential impeachments, and now the January 6th farce.
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There is no decency whatsoever in the Marxist Dem leadership of the Democrat Party, or the
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deep state, or for that matter we now know in the rhino leadership of the Republican Party.
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The Biden White House lies about everything. There's nothing they don't lie about. The
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President claiming he spoke to Chinese President Xi about the imprisonment and genocide of Uyghurs,
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his business dealings with his son, his call with Saudis, and his claim they talked about Khashoggi's
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murder, and his press secretary saying that Biden's administration flying illegal immigrants all over
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the country in the dead of night is different than Texas bussing illegals to the nation's capital.
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And if demons aren't walking the earth now, when were they? And one of the questions facing us all
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is this. Will good prevail over evil? Has the world indeed gone mad? To take up all of this,
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Pastor Robert Jeffress of the Dallas First Baptist Church in Dallas, Texas, joins us.
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Tremendous preacher, author, podcaster, and radio host, and great American. Pastor, it is great as
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always to have you back with us, and the questions are fundamental. Has this country gone mad?
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We Americans are wracked by uncertainty, unrelenting crime, and assaults on our way of life daily.
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Well, I think, Lou, what is going on is our nation is reaping the consequences of turning away from God
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over the last 50 to 60 years. You know, some genius about 60 years ago decided we didn't need God any
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longer to be good. We could be good without God. And so there was this rabid attempt by the left to
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remove prayer, Bible reading, and other religious practices in the public square away from our
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public life. And it's been a disastrous experiment. We need God to be good. And I think what you're
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seeing with the school shootings, I think what you're seeing with the rapid immorality, what you're
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seeing in the gender confusion, but we can't even define what a man and a woman are. I think all of that
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is a result of turning away from God. And we're going to talk about, I know, about this new Gallup
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poll about fewer Americans believing in God's word as the literal word of God. Well, that has
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consequences to it. In Hosea 4, 6, in the Old Testament, God told the Israelites, because you
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have forgotten me and my word, I will forget your children. And I think that's what's happening.
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Thankfully, I see a turning of that. I think recently we're seeing some signs that America is
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turning back to God. We're getting rid of these horrendous court rulings that tried to restrict
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religious liberty. And I think we'll experience the blessing of that. Well, we all we all pray you're
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right. When you talked about these interpretations of the of the Constitution, the the rulings that have
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been handed down over the course of the last almost 50 years that made abortion a federal
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right. A lot of people want to talk about it as a constitutional right. That's pure hogwash.
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That's part of the the faux interpretation of the Constitution to said to create that contrivance
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that said abortion was a right of privacy and extended that to the Constitution. We should be
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embarrassed at what our courts have done, because what they've done is nothing more than sophistry.
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It is specious. It is ignorance. And we as a country are being led by false narratives almost,
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it seems, in every quarter of our lives. And why don't we have more pride and more integrity than to
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accept that kind of nonsense from our greatest institutions, whether it be our Congress or
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Senate, the presidency or the Supreme Court? Well, you're exactly right, Lou. And and what
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liberals do, especially when it comes to the Constitution, is they create these imaginary rights
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for some people at the expense of erasing very real rights for other people. For example, I mean,
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religious liberty, they've created this imaginary right that every American has to be free from
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being offended by the religious expressions of others. We have a freedom from religion. That's
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nowhere in the Constitution. The First Amendment is about the freedom of religious expression or in
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the abortion issue, this imaginary right to an abortion. That's not anywhere in the Constitution.
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But in our most foundational document, there is a right to life. And hopefully this is going to be
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corrected with a conservative court that's going to go back to the original intent of our founders.
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And I think we're seeing the beginning of that. I mean, just in the last few weeks, not only the
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Roe ruling, but you've seen two great rulings about religious liberty, Coach Kennedy and prayer, and then
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the main vouchers. All of this is returning us to the founders' intention.
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And the main foundation of those decisions was the commitment of, obviously, Samuel Alito and Clarence
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Thomas, but the addition of three justices by Donald J. Trump, which made all the difference,
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the historic difference, because it is chilling to think what would have happened with that case
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if those three justices were not there, present and acting with great integrity and adherence to the
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Well, you're right. In the Sunday after the Roe decision, I said to our church, I said there is
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certainly God to be praised and glorified for this decision, but in human terms, God uses people.
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And there is one person responsible for this ruling, and it is President Donald J. Trump.
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I mean, just think, Lou, what would have happened if Hillary Clinton had been elected in 2016
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and had her chance to appoint three justices? I guarantee you Roe v. Wade would be safe forever.
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This is the result of an election. And I remind people, especially these squishy,
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mushy Christians who want to stay on the sidelines and criticize fellow Christians who get involved in
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politics, elections have consequences. And we saw the good consequence of an election with this Roe decision.
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We have all seen examples of what you're referring to as squishy Christians. It has taken,
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I think, a number of churches, a great deal to finally emerge from this insistence that they
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be neutral in life, in the public square. And what is extraordinary about it, there are several
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examples of churches not being squishy at all, but being assertive, aggressive, and carrying the
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opposite word, if you will, as to what churches should be doing for their parishioners, for their
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their members and their flock. It is just amazing to me that the Catholic Church can set up Catholic
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charities and be engaged in every aspect of illegal immigration, carrying out the most, to me,
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obscene policies that have never been approved by our Congress or, to my knowledge, at least,
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a court. And to see evangelical churches say, oh, no, we shouldn't be talking about religion.
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The next thing you'll have us talking about is sports. I mean, it's crazy to me.
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It is, and it goes against a basic foundational belief of Christianity, and that is a person's
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faith ought to impact every part of their life, their work life, their family life, and yes,
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their politics. And just look at American history, Lou. I mean, it's always been Christians who have
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been in the forefront, Christians voting their political beliefs, Christians allowing their beliefs
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to impact their beliefs about public life that have shaped our country. I mean, it was ministers.
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The black-robed regiment who were foundational in the American Revolution. It was Christians who
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led the way in the abolition of slavery. It was Christians who were involved in leading for civil
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rights. I mean, can you imagine somebody saying to Martin Luther King, Jr., now you're a pastor.
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You shouldn't be involved in politics. Do you think anybody on the left would say that today? No,
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they're against pastors and Christians being involved in politics who are conservative. They have
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absolutely no problem with the Al Sharptons and the Jesse Jacksons and other liberal ministers being
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involved in the political world. It's only Christians they want to silence.
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A national figure in religion. Think about this. When we talk about Franklin Graham,
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he is the contemporary, the son, obviously, of Billy Graham. National figures are very rare from the
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evangelical church. And they have been, frankly, I think, very cautious in what they did say
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on issues of national importance they spoke. But on the day-to-day, they were reluctant and reticent.
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Well, I think, you know, every Christian has to follow his convictions on this. And, you know,
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Franklin is a great friend. And here's a great example. I'm glad you cited him.
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I know you do. I know. I know. But just think about Franklin. I mean, his faith is what led to
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Samaritan's Purse, one of the great relief organizations in the world. Why would liberals
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want to attack Franklin Graham, who engages in such wonderful work? They do it because
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of his political views. He believes that marriage should be between a man and a woman.
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He believes that abortion is murder. And they absolutely discount any good he does
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and savage him for his conservative beliefs. And, you know, I think we just need more Christians
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to stand up and speak out in the public square.
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And we're seeing Christians more emboldened. And there are people listening to us, I'm sure,
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who are not Christian. There are probably not many, but there are some. And I understand that.
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But they're afraid right now of the role of the church as well. They don't know what to make of
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the ultimate conflict, I think, for Americans. And that is, how do I get to heaven? Is there a heaven?
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And how do I avoid hell? Is there a hell? And what is my moral compass really built on?
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We can talk about the Judeo-Christian heritage of this country. But the fact is,
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unless it's identified and living and breathing, whether you believe in the Bible, whether you
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believe in God and are going to church, you know, these are all big, important questions for everyone.
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There are issues of faith for those who are faithful. And there are issues of faith for those who are
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not yet. Give us your thoughts about where we are as a society right now.
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Well, look, you know, the real question is, you know, for Christians, how am I supposed to respond
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to this decadent culture in which I'm living right now? And I spoke about this a couple of weeks ago at
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the Freedom Faith and Freedom Coalition meeting in Nashville. And I went back to the words of Jesus. And
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you know, these words in Matthew 5, Lou, Jesus said, you are the salt of the earth and you are the light
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of the world. You know, salt in Jesus' day was a preservative. It didn't prevent the decay of meat,
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but it delayed the decay of meat. It gave the meat longer shelf life. Eventually, it had to be thrown
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out. And Jesus said, one reason I'm leaving you, my followers in this world, is to be a preservative,
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to keep this world from prematurely rotting away. And that means we're to be involved in pushing back
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against evil. And for us, the best way to do that is the political process. We're not going to
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ultimately save America from its fall. I mean, the Bible teaches us very clearly that every nation will
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fall one day and Christ will return. And we look forward to that. But we want to delay that as long
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as possible so that we have an opportunity to share the real light of the gospel with people.
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And so, you know, people who say, well, Christians just ought to be preaching the gospel of Jesus
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Christ and not get involved in cultural affairs and politics. That's not what Jesus said. We're both
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to be pushing back against evil with one hand and with the other hand, sharing our only hope,
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which is faith in Jesus Christ for salvation. It's not either or, it's both and, Lou.
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And as we look at the latest polling, and this from Pew Research, a majority of the public,
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according to this poll, a majority of the public disapproves of the Supreme Court decision to
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overturn Roe v. Wade to support the right to life and to return the issue to states. Your reaction?
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Well, thank God we don't determine morality by polls. I want to remind people there was a time
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in American history where the majority of Americans agreed with the Supreme Court in its Dred Scott
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decision that African-Americans were not fully human, that they were chattel property, that they
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had no rights whatsoever. But just because the majority believed that and the Supreme Court ruled
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that didn't make it right. And frankly, our standard for right and wrong is not polls, it's not court,
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it's the Word of God, the Bible. And the Bible says, thou shalt not murder. And so I'm not disturbed or
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even surprised, as you said, by this poll of Americans disagreeing with the Supreme Court's decision.
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The Supreme Court was right because they were in alignment with what God's Word teaches.
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And there are, again, lots of Americans who have had to deal with the issue of abortion. Some made
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wise choices. Some made very unwise and tragic choices, in my judgment. And as we're coming to
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terms with this, I really see this as an opportunity, the overturning of Roe v. Wade, for the country to
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to atone, to make right incalculable wrongs, as many as 60, 70 million abortions over the course of
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time since 1973 and Roe v. Wade's ruling. It's a time where there seems to me there needs to be great
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reflection and great, great concern about coming together around a reality and a truth that is
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biblical, it is a matter of faith, and should be discussed openly. And we're just not seeing that,
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is what I'm getting to, whether it be in our churches, whether it be anywhere in our society.
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There is a great conflict, of course, but the idea of sanctity of life and the right to life,
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to me, is foremost in terms of what should be at the center of the debate and come together around
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it and acknowledge the wrongs that we've done and seek forgiveness.
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Well, I believe that. And look, Lou, I mean, to quote Tip O'Neill, you know,
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he had a saying, all politics are local. And in a sense, you know, all spirituality is personal.
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It begins with a personal relationship with God. And we repent individually. Nobody goes to heaven
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in a group. We go one by one based on our relationship to Christ. But you're on to something,
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Lou. There is a national repentance that needs to happen. I mean, God not only judges individuals,
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he judges nations. Remember, in the Old Testament, the Israelites were offering children as burnt
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sacrifices to the pagan god Moloch. And God said, because you have done this thing, I'm going to
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send you into captivity for 70 years. God hasn't changed. I tell people, you know, when they say,
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you know, are you a Christian nationalist? I say, well, if you mean, do I believe that American is
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exempt from God's judgment? Absolutely not. The Bible is clear. God is no respecter of people or
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nations. Any nation that honors God will be blessed by God. And any nation, Lou, including the United
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States, that rejects God, disobeys God, will be judged by God. And in that judgment, we have given
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him much to consider when one thinks about the enormity of the tragedy and of the decisions that
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millions of Americans have had to make and have chosen poorly, because our court made possible
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a ruling that protected iniquity. And I'm going to use that. That's my word. And I know how difficult
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that decision was for many Americans. But there is a standard, whether you look to the Bible, whether
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you look to just common decency and the right to life in less than a religious sense. Give me an idea
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of what a national discussion about Roe v. Wade should be, because you are a man of faith, a leader,
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a faith leader who has an enormous following. How do we get that conversation started? And what do you
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think the reaction would be amongst the left and the right to the suggestion that we come together
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to talk about the importance of that right to life? Well, it's easy to point to the hypocrisy of the
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left and the sins of the left. But I think those of us who are conservative need to be honest, too. I
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mean, if we believe in the sanctity of life, it means that we value not only life in the womb, but life
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outside the womb as well. And I think we need to really have an honest discussion about what are
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we going to do to support women who are going to have a pregnancy and go to completion with that
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pregnancy? How can we best support life as a viable option? I think it's paramount for churches like
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mine to continue what we do. We have a pregnancy center to support moms and the choice of life,
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to support them with financial assistance and counseling. I think we have to look at that,
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Lou, at the governmental level about making sure there's adequate compensation for those who can't
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care for themselves, to make sure that children have a chance in life. And we can't say, well,
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we're just against all government programs. If we really want to treat children as they need to
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be treated and make sure they grow up in the right atmosphere, I think we have a national discussion
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about now, since this is the law of the land, how are we going to best implement it?
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You know, I understand what you're saying. I think on this one, I have to say, I don't want more
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government. It's just... I don't want more taxes, but I think maybe a redistribution of how we're
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spending some of our money. Yeah, I think that's a fair statement and a noble goal. I don't want more
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government, period. We have the left, the Marxist left has taken control of our government. That's
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obvious in the corruption of the FBI, the Department of Justice, the Department of Homeland Security.
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We are dealing with a monstrous, monstrous government. I think that if we could get the
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churches to step up louder, more aggressively, and be the leaders that we know they can be,
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that it would be a wonderful way to move forward. I wish that we were not also possessed of a
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national corporatist media that is as rancidly politically corrupt, because they're certainly
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not going to be supportive or helpful, because a moral compass has to frighten them. You know,
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they're afraid of the Bible. They're afraid of Christians. They're afraid of ministers and preachers
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and priests. But, oh, my goodness, they are scared to death of truth and integrity and morality.
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They are, and their heads are exploding right now, Lou, over this Roe decision, because they've seen
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what happens when Christians, 81 percent of evangelicals, get together and vote for Donald J. Trump,
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and he appoints three conservative justices. They're seeing the impact of that, and they haven't even begun
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to feel the impact of what future rulings are going to be. And that's what all of this attempt
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to talk about the separation of church and state. I mean, the fact is, what they want to do is build
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an unscalable wall around churches to make sure no influence from churches seep into public life,
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because they're seeing the terrifying consequences of what happens when it does.
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And I think one of the considerations that all Christians have to consider is, what is their
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commitment to public education? And it means engagement. It means participation. It means
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actually going to a school board meeting to me and saying, God, prayer. And I can carry my Bible into
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the classroom without, you know, heads being on a swivel, that you can have a discussion not about
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sex, not about gender transitioning, but how about a conversation about God? What is the moral compass
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that each of those students follows? I mean, if they're going to talk sex to five to nine-year-olds
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in our schools, then every Christian in the country should be in that school board saying,
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you will not, because that is sickness and evil. And it is not only immoral, it is an absolute sick
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mental illness that is just beyond description. And we're taking that on as a public policy in our
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schools. That's madness. It is madness. And most people are so ignorant of American history. They
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don't realize that for the first 150 years of our nation's history, from the mid-1600s into the
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1800s, most every school child in America had as a textbook the New England Primer. To graduate from
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the third grade, you had to memorize these verses in the Bible. Do not do the abominable thing unto the
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Lord. Accept a person be born again. He can't enter into the kingdom of God. The fear of the Lord is the
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beginning of wisdom. They memorized those verses. They were required to memorize those verses. And then you
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look at what is happening right now. It is totally without basis in American history whatsoever.
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And we're making history, but it's not a history of which this country will be proud, and certainly in
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retrospect, as historians look over where we've been since, say, 1960 to 2022, with the notable exception of
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these basic three Supreme Court cases, bringing us an opportunity to reflect and to restore
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decency to our society. We are confronted at almost every level, and we'll talk about shooters. People
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talk about gun rights, but they never talk about the right to mental health. They never talk about
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why are we seeing primarily young men carrying out these atrocities? And the reason is they're
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mentally ill, and they come from families that are mentally ill, whether it be the shooter in
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Ovalde, who had three felons. His mother, his father, and grandfather all were felons. He was known to
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the schools, to the community, as a dangerous, dangerous victim of mental illness. And no one did
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anything. I cannot imagine that happening, in which a young man is going to church, going to engaging in
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the public schools and not having help. Because it's just time and time again, we see the same result.
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Now, and let me just imagine, what if that 18-year-old, he wasn't going to be taken to church,
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from what I've read, by his parents and the dysfunctional home he was in. But what if he had
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sat in a classroom and heard a prayer and memorized a verse that said, you know,
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the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom, and do not murder, what change might that have
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occurred in his life? What evil might have been prevented from his actions if somewhere he had
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come to a faith in God? We'll never know. But, you know, we can have all the discussions in the world
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we want to about guns and everything else, but we can't separate these acts of violence from the
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spiritual component. You know, like Dostoyevsky said, without God, everything is permissible.
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And that's why we need to teach our children, not just in the church house, but in schools and
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everywhere, that there is a God to whom we're all accountable.
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And accountable we are. And in 2022, it looks like we're going to see a wave election, a landslide for
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the Republicans, unless, as you and I've also discussed many times, the Republicans decide to
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mess it all up. I think this may be that strong that it can overcome even the Republican Party
00:27:55.300
and its leadership. Will the evangelicals be behind, will it be a powerful force in the results of this
00:28:07.300
I'm hoping it will, Lou. The one caveat I have, and the thing I warn people about, is this battle
00:28:14.580
for the sanctity of life isn't over. It wasn't decided a few weeks ago. It's just beginning. It's
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just moved from the national level, in some senses, to the state level. But we cannot grow weary in
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well-doing, as the Bible says. We need to be vigilant. No, our primary purpose here on earth is not
00:28:34.440
politics. It's to preach the gospel. But we do have a responsibility to vote our spiritual
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convictions. So I'm hoping and praying that people will remain vigilant in 2022 and certainly in 2024.
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I know there's a great argument in faith about God-given rights in our Constitution. And I have
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always argued that those are American rights. They're not God-given.
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They may certainly be, and almost assuredly are, without question in my opinion, the result of
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God's guidance. But those were hard-fought and won rights by Americans who sacrificed their lives,
00:29:18.380
their treasure, their fortunes, to bring about this great republic of ours. We have a responsibility,
00:29:26.960
it seems to me, to engage. And Christianity is not an excuse. It's a reason. It's a purpose. And I just
00:29:35.420
hate to see people hide behind their faith as a reason not to be engaged in the local school,
00:29:41.280
to be down at the city council, making certain, as best we, any one of us mortals can, that things are
00:29:49.720
on the up and up that others are acting with the integrity that we insist upon of ourselves. Your
00:29:56.140
thoughts about that? You know, Lou, I often use this analogy. Just imagine a giant dam holding back
00:30:01.760
millions of gallons of water, and there's a little village below the dam. The townspeople see cracks in
00:30:08.340
the dam, water starting to leak out. A group of townspeople go up to that dam, and they push back
00:30:14.460
against it. And at the same time are yelling to those below, go find a place of safety. They know
00:30:20.520
that their work ultimately is futile. That dam is going to crumble, and the water is going to be
00:30:25.480
unleashed. But they want to give time for as many people as possible to find sanctuary and salvation.
00:30:32.300
That's what we're doing as Christians. We need to be at that school board meeting. We need to be
00:30:36.640
in the voting booth pushing back against evil, even though we know ultimately this world is going to
00:30:42.660
collapse. We want to prolong that so that we give people as much time to find hope and salvation
00:30:49.860
through Jesus Christ. It's not either or. We're to push back and share the gospel.
00:30:57.000
Well, as you know, we conclude each one of our podcasts with the concluding thoughts of our guests.
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We give our guests always the last word, and I appreciate you being with us, Pastor.
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Pastor, this is your moment for the concluding thoughts, and we thank you for all the great
00:31:17.960
Well, thank you for having me, Lou. And the one verse I leave your audience with is Psalm 33, 12,
00:31:31.200
Pastor Jeffress is always a delight, is always illuminating and inspiring. Thank you so much.
00:31:39.920
I always feel better hearing Pastor Jeffress's analysis, his take on life, his perspective,
00:31:45.820
and I hope you do as well. Thank you, everybody, for being with us. Here tomorrow, our guest will be
00:31:51.460
veteran, former federal prosecutor Abe Homaday, running for attorney general in Arizona.
00:31:58.280
Please join us here tomorrow on The Great America Show. You don't want to miss it.
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Till then, God bless you, and God bless America.
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God bless you, and God bless you, and God bless you, and God bless you.