The Great America Show - December 28, 2023


Best Of Lou Dobbs： THE WATCHERS ARE IN CONTROL


Episode Stats

Length

23 minutes

Words per Minute

163.9594

Word Count

3,839

Sentence Count

214


Summary

Ex-Senior Intelligence Analyst and Whistleblower Russ Tice joins Lou Dobbs on the Great America Show to talk about the ongoing surveillance programs of the National Security Agency and the Department of Justice, and how they spy on American citizens.


Transcript

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00:01:22.380 Hello, everybody, and Happy New Year. I'm Lou Dobbs, and welcome to The Great America Show. Great to
00:01:28.120 have you with us. The extension of the FISA 702 program was one of the big disappointments of the
00:01:34.260 year, to say the least. Mike Johnson failed the American people greatly by pushing that through
00:01:39.700 Congress. As of now, it's extended until April. From April on, it's yet to be seen what happens,
00:01:46.680 but I pray to God Speaker Johnson reflects on this holiday season and makes right decisions on a
00:01:52.940 massive reform against the gross abuses of the FBI, the DOJ, and the intelligence community.
00:01:59.660 For more on this, I want to bring in an expert on government spying. That is former NSA senior
00:02:06.100 intelligence analyst and whistleblower Russ Tice. Russ, Happy New Year. Great to have you back with
00:02:11.620 us. Let's start with the Section 702 of the FISA Act. What do you make of what's happening?
00:02:17.780 Well, ultimately, 702 is... I think there's like three different elements involved here. One wants to
00:02:24.140 limit the capabilities of the intelligence services and basically the mass production of intelligence
00:02:32.900 that involves American citizens. Another element wants to expire, and I kind of went in with that
00:02:40.460 group. And then the third, they're the staunch supporters of the bill, and they want to enhance
00:02:45.460 it. And not only that, but they want to make it so that it's indestructible. So it looks like that
00:02:54.720 they're going to put it into the National Defense Authorization Act and kick it down the road for
00:02:59.280 a few months. I believe that at some point it has to be addressed, but we can tell who basically is
00:03:06.820 controlled by the intelligence services, by who's supporting this thing. Even the ones that are kind
00:03:12.120 of hedging and, you know, ultimately, I think someone's being controlled.
00:03:18.840 Well, I think a lot of people are being controlled, Russ. I couldn't agree with you more.
00:03:22.440 And to that point, as Chairman Mike Turner of the House Intelligence Committee, I mean,
00:03:27.360 the man has everything but a sandwich board as he walks around the House of Representatives
00:03:34.200 advertising that he doesn't care about citizens' rights to privacy, that he is a complete and utter
00:03:41.900 in my opinion, sell out to the intelligence agencies.
00:03:46.620 The question, as Rand Paul would say, is why not just get a warrant? If you suspect someone of some
00:03:53.080 nefarious act, get a warrant. And you can do all these things under a warrant, just like any other
00:03:59.620 criminal act. Ultimately, what's happening here is they're accessing a database, which is it's still
00:04:07.020 everything. And there's no responsibility. There's no interpretation of this from the intelligence
00:04:15.860 community as to how it's being interpreted as to what is collection, what is surveillance,
00:04:24.160 and ultimately, what is in action on that. The NSA is still collecting everything, word for word,
00:04:30.680 and they're not telling us that. In many cases, the FBI is getting their hands on this stuff.
00:04:37.560 And then they're just going on fishing expeditions, or they're going on expeditions where they're just
00:04:43.300 looking for dirt on someone who's targeted. And then from there, they build a case after the fact.
00:04:51.640 Our judicial system's not supposed to work that way.
00:04:54.800 No, it isn't supposed to work that way. But the judicial system has its own levels of corruption,
00:05:00.880 as well as the intelligence community, as well as the FBI, the Department of Justice. I mean,
00:05:08.020 everywhere we turn, we're looking at outright corruption in the Biden regime. And it didn't
00:05:15.340 start with the Biden regime, we should be clear. I mean, it's been there for a long time. It's just
00:05:19.660 been built to incredible levels under this puppet president, who is impaired and compromised himself.
00:05:28.640 As Congress is moving forward with this bill, what astonishes me is that the NSA, as you say,
00:05:36.700 has all of these records, all communications, so long as they're digital. And we hear the Secret
00:05:44.260 Service say they can't find something. They can't turn it over because they lost it.
00:05:49.140 Whether it's visitor logs, whether it's text messages from their agents, whatever it may be on,
00:05:56.700 for example, January 6th. Why do people not want to acknowledge that the NSA has all of this
00:06:04.320 material? And it's, if you will, it's not what its intended purpose is, of course. But why not
00:06:10.700 bring that material up from the NSA and provide it to the American public and certainly to the Congress
00:06:18.180 of the Senate? Well, that would expose the lie, wouldn't it? The NSA saying that before it was
00:06:23.780 just metadata, which was also a lie because they were targeting people. But once they had the
00:06:27.920 capability, and this happened around the end of 2012 into very early 2013, especially when they
00:06:36.180 brought that facility up in Utah, the database storage facility there, that that's when they had the
00:06:43.360 capability to collect and store everything. Now, that doesn't mean that they look at it. You don't
00:06:50.500 have enough analysts to look at it. I mean, we're literally talking about word for word for everything
00:06:54.360 that's said in this country. So little Jenny in junior high school talking to Johnny about how cute Johnny
00:07:00.660 is, is not something that too many people care about, but it's still recorded there. So if they expose the fact
00:07:09.360 that they're collecting everything, then it exposes the lie that they are still doing mass collection.
00:07:16.500 It's the interpretation that's the key. They're saying that they're not doing surveillance because
00:07:21.540 they're not looking at it. They're only storing it, or actually collecting it and running it through
00:07:27.300 filters and then storing it in the big warehouse. So that's the problem. Even under when we had the,
00:07:33.360 when we had section 215 on the Patriot Act, they would, they would not give an interpretation of
00:07:40.020 how they were, they were, they were using that as far as collection. Even way back in the executive
00:07:47.760 order after Reagan, once the Bushes got in, the executive order 1, 2, 3, 3, 3, how they, how they were
00:07:56.120 alternating that as far as their interpretation. So basically they're bastardizing and mutating all these things to, to, to, to configure as to how they want to use them.
00:08:10.120 And they're not telling us that. And another thing, there's no pushback. So the FISA, the FISA, and then, and that leads to, oh my goodness,
00:08:18.120 could you imagine where, where they could do something like this and they could literally use it to go after a president of the United States?
00:08:24.120 Oh, wait a minute. They did. Didn't they? So they did. There's no pushback.
00:08:29.000 They did. And, uh, there's a lot of pushing going on, maybe not pushback, but a lot of pushing and shoving.
00:08:35.180 And the guy, it's all coming from the government toward American citizens. We're talking with Russ Tice,
00:08:41.000 a former senior, uh, intelligence analyst for the NSA and whistleblower. We're coming right back. Stay with us.
00:08:48.520 You don't want to miss any of this conversation. Believe me.
00:08:54.120 So we're back now talking with Russ Tice and Russ, let's, you're talking about NSA has everything.
00:09:04.600 One of the things that I would like to see are all those, what was it? 33,000 Hillary Clinton emails.
00:09:10.600 I'd like to see that. Uh, and I don't understand why we can't, uh, they say it's because it's lost,
00:09:16.460 but we know it's not lost because it's, it's stored somewhere in an NSA server.
00:09:22.560 Well, it would expose the lie that they're not doing it. And second of all, it would take away
00:09:26.940 their means of control. Because right now, when you have, when you can go to the Hillary Clinton and
00:09:31.960 say, by the way, we have all that stuff, regardless of what, how you smash it up with hammers and,
00:09:37.200 and, and, and grinders and how, you know what, and, and run it through all the, the different, uh,
00:09:42.840 systems to wipe, uh, you know, uh, the, uh, the, uh, the slates, bleach bid, whatever it was, uh,
00:09:48.900 they still have it. So, so we, we now own you, Hillary Clinton, and, and we own all, all the,
00:09:55.640 all, all the supporters and the vestiges of your empire. So, um, which is part of the deep state.
00:10:02.600 So once again, when it comes to those, uh, those bills that, uh, send money our way to the
00:10:07.740 intelligence community, y'all better just, uh, stand in line and salute and make sure that that
00:10:13.300 cash keeps coming. So we're not only a surveillance state now, we are a surveillance state that is
00:10:20.220 suffocating, uh, its citizens with that, uh, surveillance. And it's your view, and this is
00:10:28.000 important for everyone to hear. It's your view that there is not a single thing that the
00:10:34.920 intelligence agencies are doing with section 702 that couldn't be done with a judge and a warrant.
00:10:43.200 Is that correct? That's absolutely correct. But, you know, but, but, okay, it means that you won't
00:10:50.260 have the ability to go back into the past and dig up the last 10, 15 years of what said target of
00:10:57.460 whatever investigation is going to be. But the whole concept of the constitution is that you
00:11:04.060 have to have probable cause to believe that there's a crime. And then you can go and take
00:11:09.640 someone's, uh, right to privacy away. You know, you just don't do it, uh, beforehand and then start
00:11:15.080 digging afterwards because that could potentially lead to abuse. And if the information's there,
00:11:20.020 it's just so tempting for any politician to go, you know, I want to find out what my, um,
00:11:26.620 adversary is doing here or there or whatever, and just start digging into that, that pile and the
00:11:31.960 intelligence community will say, well, we'll, we'll let you dig into the pile, but you owe us.
00:11:37.200 And that's kind of the way I think it's working.
00:11:40.340 Is it your view? That's not only are people being controlled, but they're being blackmailed.
00:11:45.900 And, uh, we can't, uh, we can't just easily accept, uh, the, the political motivations for
00:11:52.920 what these two political parties are doing.
00:11:56.380 Absolutely. And it's both parties, it's both sides. So, um, oh gee, you know, uh, seven years
00:12:01.960 ago I had a little, little fling with, uh, with my, uh, my intern, um, uh, or, or, you know,
00:12:08.500 I took some land deal that, uh, some sweetheart land deal that is very questionable or, or,
00:12:14.360 you know, I took, uh, I don't know, uh, uh, a foreign country sent me some gold bars that
00:12:19.220 I put in my jacket or something. I slipped away into my, uh, my, my safe at my house or,
00:12:24.460 or whatever the case may be, you know, we're talking about some people and, and, uh, they're
00:12:29.440 on Capitol Hill that, um, there aren't the most, you know, I, every time I hear honorable,
00:12:34.760 when I see these names, I just kind of, I have to smirk because there's not a whole lot
00:12:39.540 of honor with most of these reprobates. Um, it's, it's kind of funny because I think they
00:12:45.760 all have dirt and, and, and they know that the, that the intelligence community, um, knows
00:12:53.520 where their closets are and can put the, put the flashlight in there and see what's going
00:12:57.660 on.
00:12:58.040 The filing of special counsel, Jack Smith included in the filing, uh, the, uh,
00:13:04.720 the suggestion that, uh, they have, uh, phone, cell phone recordings of the president, uh,
00:13:11.640 on January 6th and plans to use them at trial. Uh, is that normal that they would be, uh,
00:13:20.160 surveilling the president of the United States?
00:13:23.500 Of course not. I mean, this is the president of the United States has to be able to conduct
00:13:29.400 his job in confidence with, with his, uh, attorneys, his, his representatives, his lieutenants
00:13:36.140 to get their, their, uh, opinion on certain things. Um, and you know, that's, that's sort
00:13:41.640 of like the, you know, how the sausage is made. And then ultimately, you know, the sausage
00:13:46.800 tastes pretty good once you cook it up, but you know, they're just looking at digging into
00:13:52.120 the, you know, whatever dirt they can find. And, and, you know, so Lord forbid, is there
00:13:58.120 somebody says, well, well, how can we do this? Well, we could, you know, this measure, this
00:14:02.140 measure, some of those measures might be, you know, unethical. Some might be pretty nasty.
00:14:06.980 And, you know, and the president ultimately would say, well, we can't do that because, you
00:14:11.800 know, that, that would be, um, you know, something that, uh, that is, uh, capricious or, or what have
00:14:19.400 you, you never personally yourself saw anything that even suggested that, that NSA was surveilling
00:14:26.620 the president of the United States. No, I never saw, uh, I, I personally saw they were, they
00:14:34.700 were surveilling the secretary of state and I saw they were sick. They were, uh, and that
00:14:40.340 back then that was Colin Powell that I personally saw and that they were, they were personally
00:14:44.960 surveilling, uh, uh, a four-star general, the general, uh, Shiseki, um, and, uh, and a whole
00:14:53.380 lot of other folks. And they were, they were, uh, surveilling the, uh, of all, of all things,
00:14:59.720 the, um, and this was personal, uh, that I saw. Then later on, I saw stuff that my, my friends
00:15:05.480 were showing me, but, uh, from literally what I was getting from, from, from my space side,
00:15:11.160 um, the, the, uh, uh, uh, the representative in the White House, uh, Bush's own guy, the,
00:15:18.080 um, oh, the, uh, the press secretary at the time, McClellan, McClellan, whatever his name
00:15:24.200 was. Yeah. Scott. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's the guy. So the other, they had their own guy
00:15:30.180 that they were going after. So maybe they thought he was being disloyal or something. I don't
00:15:34.060 know. But, uh, then, then once, once I got in touch with my friends, they were, they were
00:15:38.880 dealing with the terrestrial side, which means, um, uh, microwaves and, um, fiber optics, which
00:15:46.300 is, by the way, most of the communications, how it works, you know, domestically. Then we
00:15:50.860 realized this thing was explosive and it was, it was Congress. It was the Supreme Court. It
00:15:55.620 was the FISA court. It was lawyers. And it was all kinds of important people and NGOs and
00:16:01.640 the press and, and, uh, uh, create just all kinds of, uh, a bunch of, a bunch of numbers
00:16:08.400 from, uh, from South California. You're saying that it was targeted surveillance. It wasn't
00:16:14.540 quote unquote metadata that had just been sloshing around. That's correct. Back then. See, back
00:16:21.980 in those days, NSA didn't have the capability to get everything. So, so they, what they were
00:16:27.640 collecting most all metadata. And then from that, I believe they were using that as like
00:16:33.140 a card, uh, file. And then they were going after, um, specific individuals, uh, uh, that,
00:16:40.640 uh, you know, they were targeted. So once they targeted someone, then they would, they would
00:16:45.960 collect everything, but they couldn't get everything.
00:16:48.640 We're talking with Russ Tice. We're going to be right back.
00:16:57.640 We're back now with Russ Tice. Now comes another letter, uh, 46, uh, names on it of, uh, Intel
00:17:05.280 veterans saying that the 702 has to be, uh, has to be affirmed, pass through law and, uh,
00:17:12.240 you know, devil take the hindmost when it comes to any kind of reform. Don't touch it. It'll
00:17:17.000 spoil, uh, everything that we do in national security. Your reaction, uh, to, to that?
00:17:22.320 Well, uh, the, this is the deep state, you know, these are the, uh, um, the, the creatures
00:17:29.960 of the deep space, deep state and, and swamp. Um, so of course, and, and, and their power
00:17:34.780 base. So this is, Lord forbid that, uh, you know, you take away their ability to control
00:17:40.640 people. Uh, and, and they'd like to say that, oh my goodness, that because they've been in
00:17:45.320 the business that the, that, uh, this, this is so esoteric that the common man and the common
00:17:50.600 congressmen can't understand the, the, uh, the intricacies of, of how important this
00:17:56.040 is. And, and that, oh, by the way, that we are just so, we are just so, um, omniscient
00:18:01.280 that, uh, that, that you must believe us because, you know, when ultimately they're, they're the
00:18:07.120 ones that are, that are using this to their own benefit and, uh, to the detriment of our
00:18:12.600 own, um, uh, civil liberties.
00:18:15.600 It's just remarkable to me that we are in a position where we have, uh,
00:18:20.600 watch the political persecution of a president.
00:18:23.480 And, and remember when they talked about the insurrection, talking about January 6th,
00:18:28.900 uh, we all know that the actual insurrection, the attempt to overthrow a president began
00:18:36.640 with the, uh, wiretapping as it was styled then of president Trump and all that he endured
00:18:44.040 since.
00:18:44.520 So we have a projection by the Marxist Dems and the, uh, uh, the deep state that somehow
00:18:53.520 the Republicans, uh, the MAGA, uh, Republicans, as Joe Biden calls them, uh, were carrying out
00:19:01.400 some sort of, uh, insurrection on January 6th.
00:19:04.580 When in point of fact, they've been carrying out a form of insurrection, rebellion, uh, and
00:19:10.860 abject disloyalty, uh, since, uh, since 2016, certainly we know that for a fact, uh, your
00:19:18.860 reaction.
00:19:19.860 Well, President Trump, uh, he was, he was a problem.
00:19:24.860 Um, Obama was not a problem because he, he, he, he didn't have his own wealth.
00:19:30.360 He didn't, he wasn't a businessman.
00:19:31.860 He, I think he was still paying off his like college loans at the time or something.
00:19:35.860 So, so he was, you put, uh, use a carrot and a stick.
00:19:40.860 So you say, look, we're going to make you fed, uh, famously wealthy and you're going
00:19:44.860 to be famous too.
00:19:45.860 But, but if you don't listen, we have this stick and we have this dirt on you.
00:19:50.860 So, but president, president Trump could not be controlled.
00:19:54.860 He, he, he, he's made his own money and, and, you know, in the business world, um, you know,
00:20:00.860 he's lived in a glass house his entire life.
00:20:02.860 So, and, and any of his, uh, discretions that he's ever had, have, have been put out there.
00:20:08.860 And he's basically been forgiven for, for, for some of those, for all of that.
00:20:12.860 By the deep state and not by the Marxist Dems, Russ, they, they mean to put the man in jail.
00:20:17.860 Uh, they mean to, to crush him, uh, without any question whatsoever.
00:20:23.860 Because once he's back in there and I, I, I even told my wife when he first became president,
00:20:30.860 I said, I said, this man has no idea what he's up against, but I think he does now.
00:20:35.860 So he knows, he knows where, and where the alligators are in the swamp.
00:20:41.860 And he knows that the snakes were, were riding up his leg and been putting their fangs in him
00:20:46.860 the whole time he was in office.
00:20:48.860 And this time I think he's going to clean house.
00:20:51.860 And, and, and I just, I'm, I'm there for trumpet, just, uh, you know, the cheering him on.
00:20:58.860 Well, we're, we're all cheering, but I don't know what many of us can do.
00:21:03.860 We've become something else already, uh, than America.
00:21:07.860 Uh, what is your sense that he can count on the permanent bureaucracy,
00:21:13.860 particularly in the intelligence community and the national security, uh, agencies?
00:21:19.860 Well, there, there's an awful lot of people in this, in NSA in particular, that, uh, that they saw what was happening.
00:21:25.860 But they, even this, the, the, the, my, my own friends, they were feeding me some of this information,
00:21:31.860 even after I was, you know, under the gun.
00:21:33.860 And they're, they're all afraid because they have mortgages.
00:21:36.860 They have, you know, kids going to, to private schools.
00:21:39.860 They have taken care of an elderly, a parent, and all these things that they know.
00:21:45.860 And they just say, look what happened to you, Russ, you know, okay, I'll feed you a little information,
00:21:49.860 but, but we're not going in that cave with you to fight that dragon.
00:21:52.860 You know, we'll help you put the armor on.
00:21:54.860 Is there a way you see that these agencies could be reformed, uh, and, and straightened out?
00:22:01.860 Or are they a lost cause?
00:22:04.860 Some are a lost cause.
00:22:06.860 I think the FBI is a lost cause.
00:22:07.860 That has to be, that has to be literally burned down and rebuilt or, or, or disseminated into other elements.
00:22:13.860 But the, the intelligence service, we, we need accountability.
00:22:17.860 We, we need to go in and all the SCS's, the senior executive service, need to be fired immediately.
00:22:22.860 And then you need to bring people up.
00:22:24.860 I mean, there, there are people that are whistleblowers, like the, the, the, the guy in the Marine Corps
00:22:29.860 and the, the IRS and, and a couple FBI guys.
00:22:32.860 You know, there are people out there.
00:22:33.860 But the, you have to be able to take the people that have done this
00:22:37.860 and you have to make them accountable for the crimes they've committed.
00:22:40.860 Otherwise, the, the people, even after, say Mr. Trump is in for four years, he gets out.
00:22:46.860 Then you have the whole thing coming right back because people go,
00:22:50.860 I wasn't held accountable before.
00:22:52.860 I'm just going to keep doing this until someone sees, someone sees a general doing a pert walk
00:22:57.860 or the director of an agency doing a pert work and behind bars for two or three years.
00:23:02.860 That's, until that accountability is there, this is going to keep happening.
00:23:06.860 Our guest here tomorrow on The Great America Show is the geopolitical expert and author Gordon Chang.
00:23:11.860 Please join us each and every day.
00:23:13.860 And follow me on Twitter and true social at Lou Dobbs on Facebook and Instagram at Lou Dobbs tonight.
00:23:19.860 Thank you, everybody.
00:23:20.860 God bless you and may God bless America.
00:23:22.860 God bless America.
00:23:23.860 God bless America.