The Great America Show - BIDEN WH AND EUROPE COWER AS RUSSIA INVADES UKRAINE

00:00:00.000 Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Great America Podcast with Lou Dobbs,

00:00:04.200 always in the fight for truth, justice, and yes, our American way of life.

00:00:09.220 And now, here he is, the Peabody award-winning voice of truth, the great Lou Dobbs.

00:00:14.220 Hello, everybody, and welcome to the Great America Show, and thank you for being with us.

00:00:19.600 The entire aware world, of course, is focused on Ukraine.

00:00:24.100 Vladimir Putin ordered his forces to invade Ukraine,

00:00:27.000 and they did so in dramatic fashion as the world watched yesterday.

00:00:31.840 The world is still watching, as it will be for days and weeks and more to come.

00:00:37.880 Russian tanks, armored personnel carriers, mobile cannon, rocket launchers,

00:00:42.580 all rolling down the Ukrainian highways and streets.

00:00:46.240 Russian attack jets and cruise missiles and rockets hitting targets in at least two dozen cities

00:00:52.180 in a highly coordinated attack.

00:00:54.500 It appears to be, at this stage of the fighting, unstoppable,

00:00:59.260 given the Russian military's far superior air power and weaponry,

00:01:04.120 and obviously highly trained troops.

00:01:07.160 The strikes appear to be designed by the Russians to limit collateral damage

00:01:11.680 and civilian casualties, though there will be many, inevitably,

00:01:16.100 as powerful warheads and rockets explode,

00:01:18.540 and we won't likely know the extent of the damage and casualties for days, perhaps weeks.

00:01:25.040 The European response to the Russian invasion to this point has been muted,

00:01:30.220 probably what we should have expected from a continent of nations

00:01:33.860 that has relied on the United States for more than three quarters of a century

00:01:38.520 for their national security.

00:01:40.440 For its part, the United Nations is not muted, it's inert, it's irrelevant,

00:01:46.660 and not only because it's Russia's monthly turn to have its head of delegation

00:01:51.420 serve as president of the Security Council.

00:01:54.780 There seems to be resigned acceptance, on the Europeans' part,

00:01:59.380 to the invasion and the likely outcome.

00:02:02.040 None of the usual bellicosity at the UN, no sanctimonious condemnations,

00:02:08.660 and clearly no broad appetite among the Europeans for war.

00:02:14.180 The United States is hardly more vigorous in its reaction.

00:02:18.360 President Biden's rhetoric has been the harshest,

00:02:20.980 while Congress, for the most part, is subdued,

00:02:23.580 and few corporate media outlets are demanding America defend luckless Ukraine.

00:02:29.440 The obvious hesitation, in part at least,

00:02:32.740 because our president is hardly what could be called an ideal leader

00:02:36.900 when national security threats reach from Moscow to Beijing.

00:02:42.100 Putin's timing has, in my view, been ideal,

00:02:45.160 to realize his objectives to win the day militarily.

00:02:49.380 Putin has caught the Western world all but leaderless and certainly flat-footed,

00:02:54.680 despite as many signals of his intent.

00:02:57.160 What is Putin's objective?

00:02:59.960 How far will Putin go?

00:03:02.300 What happens next?

00:03:04.280 To answer those questions, we'll be talking with several guests today

00:03:07.800 with a variety of perspectives on what is obviously a rapidly developing story in Ukraine

00:03:13.700 and a quickly changing European and world order.

00:03:18.160 We begin with Colonel Douglas McGregor.

00:03:21.280 Colonel McGregor is a decorated combat veteran.

00:03:24.160 He is author of five books and a former advisor to the Secretary of Defense

00:03:29.220 in the Trump administration.

00:03:31.500 Colonel, great to have you here.

00:03:33.340 Thanks for being with us.

00:03:34.620 Your assessment, if you will, of the Russian invasion militarily.

00:03:39.800 Yes, it's been thus far, from all appearances,

00:03:43.960 a very professionally planned and executed operation by the Russians.

00:03:48.240 And it's really a tribute to the massive reform and reorganization process

00:03:53.800 that the Russian army went through under Putin over the last 20 years.

00:03:57.440 And I think that merits attention, because this army is very different from the Soviet army,

00:04:04.500 both organizationally and in terms of the quality of its personnel.

00:04:08.380 It bears no resemblance to the old Soviet force.

00:04:11.080 But he's only got an army of a little bit over 400,000.

00:04:14.140 It's actually smaller than ours.

00:04:16.100 But it punches well above its weight because of the way it's being reorganized and re-equipped.

00:04:20.780 Now, they've moved in from three directions, from the north, out of Baila-Russia, 0.75

00:04:27.180 down into the direction of Kiev, which is not far from the Baila-Russian border,

00:04:32.500 from the east, from the Russian border, across eastern Ukraine to the Epo River,

00:04:37.940 and from Crimea, down into the coastal area and ostensibly on the road to Odessa.

00:04:45.300 So what he's effectively done is that he's moved his forces into those areas of Ukraine

00:04:51.620 that were never Ukrainian.

00:04:53.280 All of those areas are historically part of Russia.

00:04:56.380 And before they became part of Russia, they were part of the Mongol Khanate in Crimea.

00:05:02.520 And I've recently learned that supposedly, I haven't been able to confirm this,

00:05:08.180 Zelensky was sent an ultimatum by Putin telling him,

00:05:11.760 look, if you'll cede these territories to us right now, I will suspend the operation.

00:05:17.580 But if you don't, then I will eventually cross the Epo River and I'll roll up

00:05:22.680 what is really historic Ukraine all the way to the Polish border.

00:05:26.920 So this has been very sudden, but very professional and very effective.

00:05:32.200 Very little damage, frankly.

00:05:33.520 Lots of cruise missiles striking airfields and installations,

00:05:39.020 but no damage to the power grid, no damage to communications in Ukraine,

00:05:44.800 roads, bridges, things like that.

00:05:47.380 Very limited use of firepower only to destroy forces that were ostensibly resisting their advance.

00:05:54.320 And I think that's important because it's clear he doesn't want to destroy much in the country.

00:05:59.100 He'd like to capture as much of it as possible intact.

00:06:01.500 And much of it is industrial.

00:06:05.800 Much of it is very important, obviously, to Ukraine's economy.

00:06:10.360 And if he succeeds in annexing those territories that you just laid out,

00:06:16.920 that will be an immense boost to the Russian economy as well,

00:06:21.160 if they are assimilated, annexed and assimilated into Russia, correct?

00:06:27.040 Well, he needs Russians. 1.00

00:06:29.380 He doesn't have very many.

00:06:30.800 The birth rate has fallen quite a bit.

00:06:33.100 Non-Russians, particularly Central Asians, Mongol Turkic people,

00:06:38.220 those people are reproducing much more rapidly than the Russians. 0.96

00:06:41.360 So he's anxious to add the people there.

00:06:43.740 As far as the economic boost, yes, there'll be something of a boost,

00:06:48.140 but a lot of the equipment is old, needs to be modernized.

00:06:51.440 But there's something else people lose sight of.

00:06:53.460 But it's very important.

00:06:54.260 And that is that there's an immense amount of oil and gas under the Donbass,

00:07:00.060 all the way down to Crimea and then just off the coast of the Black Sea.

00:07:03.660 In fact, they think there may be the largest natural gas deposits in Europe outside of Norway.

00:07:10.580 So that's no small matter.

00:07:13.560 But again, I think we need to go back and look at the previous 25 years where a series of Russian governments,

00:07:21.500 and then ultimately President Putin has repeatedly raised the issue of no NATO expansion beyond its current limits.

00:07:30.840 And he's always said he would not tolerate the presence of U.S. forces, missiles, foreign forces in eastern Ukraine

00:07:38.020 in a position to essentially reach Moscow in minutes if they chose to do so.

00:07:42.520 And we ignored him.

00:07:44.660 We refused to listen to him.

00:07:45.900 We said, no, we'll talk about arms control.

00:07:47.640 We'll talk about this, that, or the next thing.

00:07:49.260 But we will not discuss making Ukraine a non-NATO country, effectively offering it neutrality or some other status

00:07:58.500 as opposed to being a member of NATO.

00:08:00.640 And I think he finally said enough's enough.

00:08:02.880 His armed forces were ready, and he's acting.

00:08:05.780 So no one should be surprised.

00:08:07.560 But, you know, Lou, our diplomacy is very often a dialogue of the deaf.

00:08:12.520 We don't listen to other people.

00:08:14.620 Were you surprised that apparently the precision of the forces and the attacks,

00:08:20.620 including cruise missiles and the bombing runs that were made, and to other, to also rocket launches,

00:08:30.200 are you surprised that they were at least trying to avoid collateral damage?

00:08:36.520 Not really, simply because he knows that the people that he's up against are orthodox Christian Slavs,

00:08:46.420 much like the Russians. 0.76

00:08:48.220 And he also knows that the majority of the people in the areas where he's currently operating are really Russian.

00:08:54.180 They may live inside Ukraine, but they're effectively Russians. 0.90

00:08:57.820 He's not interested in killing them.

00:08:59.020 Right. 0.98

00:09:00.140 Yes. 0.94

00:09:00.800 He's not interested in killing them.

00:09:02.360 That makes perfect sense.

00:09:04.640 It's good to see this because we would never have seen that under the Soviets.

00:09:09.120 They could have cared less when they killed.

00:09:10.940 So I think that distinguishes what we're seeing from the past.

00:09:14.920 And, again, it's a much smaller force.

00:09:17.760 About half of it is professional.

00:09:19.160 The other half are draftees. 0.72

00:09:21.760 And they're very well trained.

00:09:23.600 I mean, I've watched the film footage of them at the railheads loading and offloading equipment,

00:09:29.300 setting up positions.

00:09:31.320 Their uniforms, their gear, everything is in excellent condition.

00:09:34.760 They behave like professional soldiers.

00:09:38.260 And, you know, a friend of mine who's in the Army said to me, he said,

00:09:41.800 they've done everything so quickly.

00:09:44.480 He said, we'd have barely gotten out of the motor pool with the woke Army we have now.

00:09:49.760 The woke Army that we have, that's been one of the criticisms of this Secretary of Defense,

00:09:56.780 the Joint Chiefs of Staff and Milley, General Milley, reaching out to the Russians,

00:10:05.940 and they wouldn't return his call.

00:10:07.320 The Chinese were at least were nice enough to take his call. 0.99

00:10:11.080 This is a new role.

00:10:12.260 The Chinese would take everything they could get. 1.00

00:10:15.320 And have.

00:10:16.760 But this is really quite a new posture on the part of an American general, is it not?

00:10:24.020 And he keeps his job instead of being fired.

00:10:28.760 What do you make of it?

00:10:30.200 He's deeply disappointing.

00:10:33.100 And I can't understand most of what he does and says.

00:10:38.080 They're irrelevant.

00:10:39.400 I mean, the first thing that you notice about the Russian force,

00:10:42.800 it's all overwhelmingly young men between the ages of 18 and 30.

00:10:47.380 Gosh, what a surprise.

00:10:49.280 That's what armies rest upon in terms of a foundation.

00:10:52.300 That's what makes up armies.

00:10:54.340 Young, athletic, intelligent, vigorous men who are anxious to close with and destroy the enemy.

00:11:02.780 This man, Milley, seems to be from, I don't know, the planet Venus or somewhere else.

00:11:09.040 He has very strange views on all of that.

00:11:11.740 And the military, as you know, is a very different environment from civilian life.

00:11:16.260 In civilian life, individual preferences and priorities are very, very important.

00:11:20.300 And we understand that.

00:11:21.780 But in the military, we as individuals are not irrelevant, but we only really become significant when we become part of a larger formation.

00:11:30.660 And that requires a whole different mindset.

00:11:35.160 The Russians have that mindset. 0.77

00:11:36.740 They understand that.

00:11:37.640 And we're seeing that in action.

00:11:38.980 We're in a lot of trouble in terms of our military.

00:11:42.200 And all you have to do is look at some of the people that are getting off aircraft and then milling around in Poland.

00:11:50.100 They don't look good.

00:11:51.080 A lot of them are overweight.

00:11:53.440 We've gotten sloppy.

00:11:55.220 And we have a leadership that has become, I think, arrogant insofar as its ability to dominate weak opponents without armies, without air forces, without air defenses.

00:12:06.920 And they've forgotten that real war consists of serious professional combat soldiers.

00:12:14.640 So, you know, at least in that sense, perhaps we're getting a wake-up call.

00:12:18.800 I don't know.

00:12:19.380 But we ought to also ask where all the trillions of dollars that we've been spending on defense have been going.

00:12:25.120 Because we're clearly in no position right now to take on a force like the Russian army.

00:12:29.060 It's, to me, it's just staggering when I hear Vladimir Putin threaten us with hypersonic missiles.

00:12:39.160 When we had hypersonic missiles, we were with, along with, by the way, the Russians, and I think you know this, the developers, the inventors of hypersonic missiles.

00:12:50.060 Going back into the late 80s and 90s, we had them, DARPA had them on the grid ready to go.

00:12:57.640 Ready to go in the sense of move them to manufacture and to ultimately deployment.

00:13:05.940 We set them aside.

00:13:07.840 And meanwhile, the Chinese picked up the plant somewhere.

00:13:11.200 And the Soviets, who possessed the plants, left them around for the Russians. 0.88

00:13:17.020 And guess what?

00:13:17.620 Both of them have deployed hypersonic missiles in the United States.

00:13:21.340 We had Lloyd Austin, the Secretary of Defense, calling a gathering of the military industrial complex to say, we really need these.

00:13:30.840 Could you move it along, please?

00:13:32.580 It's outrageous.

00:13:33.440 Well, your Pershing-2 missile that we eliminated as a result of the Intermediate Nuclear Force Treaty was hypersonic.

00:13:42.360 Right.

00:13:42.860 And, you know, developing and fielding what I would call the Pershing-3, an improved version of that, is very easy. 0.99

00:13:48.300 Perhaps there's a way to approach all of this if we're willing to talk to the Russians.

00:13:56.140 The problem is that, for the moment, I think President Putin has decided that he's not going to bother with this.

00:14:04.340 I think he's written off this administration as essentially unapproachable, permanently hostile.

00:14:10.700 There's no willingness to consider his point of view or anything that he says.

00:14:17.420 And, again, that's why I mentioned the dialogue of the deaf.

00:14:19.940 Normally, diplomacy consists of two sides.

00:14:23.620 One side has one opinion.

00:14:25.440 The other side has a different.

00:14:26.500 And you try to find common ground.

00:14:28.700 You work your way through it.

00:14:29.840 Certainly, our positions, when Reagan and Gorbachev were alive in the 1980s, were infinitely further apart than they are today with this Russia. 0.75

00:14:38.340 This Russia is not the Soviet Union.

00:14:40.700 And that's the biggest problem I think we've got with it.

00:14:42.960 We don't understand that this Russia has far more in common with czarist Russia, which was religious, orthodox Christian, and culturally sensitive to its Russian national identity.

00:14:59.160 There's so many similarities between, frankly, Putin's behavior and the behavior of several czars.

00:15:06.680 It's hard to fathom.

00:15:07.900 And I think he genuinely cares about his country.

00:15:11.060 This is not some wild-eyed, crazy person who wants to put millions of lives at risk.

00:15:16.820 I mean, he was approached a few years ago at a conference in Riga, in Latvia, that he attended.

00:15:24.880 And they said, well, what about, would you use nuclear weapons? 0.97

00:15:28.140 And so we said, don't be ridiculous.

00:15:30.400 If I tried to use a nuclear weapon in this area, whatever happened to Riga, to Latvia, to Lithuania, Estonia, would happen to the people on the other side of the border in Russia. 0.88

00:15:40.740 In other words, when you start using nuclear weapons, there's nothing clean or precise about them.

00:15:46.220 By the way, the prevailing winds blow west to east.

00:15:49.720 So the fallout goes in the direction of Russia.

00:15:53.120 Bottom line is we're not going to nuke each other.

00:15:55.540 That's not going to happen.

00:15:56.580 And there won't be any massive Russian offensive against the West.

00:16:02.220 But the Russians demand that somebody listen to them and their concerns and their interests.

00:16:09.700 Now, when Trump was in office, to his credit, I think, Lou, he tried very hard to reach out and understand Putin and the Russians.

00:16:18.840 The problem was that Donald Trump was surrounded by people who did everything they possibly could to support that effort.

00:16:24.120 So here we are.

00:16:27.220 Who was the chief subversive in that group, would you say?

00:16:31.160 Oh, I think Pompeo, along with the series of Bolton and his predecessor McMaster.

00:16:37.480 All of these people were incurably hostile to the notion that we could have any relationship with Russia other than a hostile relationship.

00:16:46.380 And I know that the president's view was, look, we may never be friends, but there's no reason for us to be enemies.

00:16:51.440 We share a number of interests, and that's where we need to begin to work.

00:16:55.000 I thought he was right.

00:16:56.480 Yeah.

00:16:56.900 And to pretend that Russia, that there is some great divide between Russia and Europe, I think, is a mistake as well.

00:17:06.240 Because culturally, there is greater similarity than, well, there's enough of a bridge there that we should have chosen it.

00:17:14.800 And I was among those who were selected by members of the first Bush administration to go into Moscow and to, as the Treasury Secretary and others were going through Goss Bank to look at what is happening as the Soviet Union was collapsing.

00:17:32.980 This was, I believe, 1991.

00:17:35.600 And the great promise was that we would have trade with Russia, that we would, I'm talking about the younger generation of Russians.

00:17:45.920 You know, they had great hopes for bringing, coming closer to the United States.

00:17:53.280 And administration after administration stepped away from that trade and that investment in Russia and bringing the two countries closer.

00:18:02.560 And instead moved toward Beijing, for crying out loud, with some sort of silly idea that we could convert them to market capitalism and democracy.

00:18:17.120 The madness of it all in policy terms is overwhelming over the course of 30 years.

00:18:23.000 Well, you're 100% right, Lou.

00:18:27.000 It's discouraging.

00:18:28.360 I know when I was still on active duty and at the Supreme Headquarters of Light Powers Europe working for West Clark, that at that point, we were trying very hard to work with the Russians.

00:18:39.520 And it wasn't easy for them, frankly, because we were meddling in the Balkans.

00:18:44.220 And that part of the world was very important to them.

00:18:46.780 They liberated the Bulgarians, Romanians, and others from the Turks.

00:18:50.040 So they had a permanent interest in the populations there.

00:18:54.280 They were Orthodox Christians, Serbs, Bolivars, and so forth.

00:18:58.740 But it was difficult for them.

00:19:00.160 But they worked with us.

00:19:01.400 And they worked hard with us to make things successful.

00:19:06.780 And we didn't really return the favor.

00:19:08.960 We haven't reciprocated very much.

00:19:10.820 They helped us when we went into Afghanistan enormously.

00:19:13.800 They stood up this Northern Alliance.

00:19:15.780 They equipped it.

00:19:16.880 They fielded tanks for it.

00:19:18.280 And they gave us excellent intelligence.

00:19:21.620 And after it was over, they asked us, how long are you going to be in Afghanistan?

00:19:25.420 We said a year.

00:19:26.660 And we know the rest of that story.

00:19:29.840 We don't know the whole story.

00:19:30.920 And by the way, that year would have been the perfect time frame.

00:19:37.140 Of course.

00:19:37.580 Because we had done what we needed to do in the course of that year.

00:19:42.060 Oh, absolutely.

00:19:42.940 And, you know, the same was frankly true in Iraq.

00:19:46.100 That you removed Saddam and his friends. 0.98

00:19:48.900 And you needed to put in another group to run it.

00:19:51.560 But it was no place for us to remain.

00:19:54.260 And I think as a result of having stayed in these places for so many years, we actually ruined our forces.

00:19:59.580 You know, Genghis Khan used to say, occupations turn soldiers into jailers.

00:20:05.860 He was right.

00:20:07.540 And we need to avoid those things at all costs.

00:20:11.220 Yeah.

00:20:11.980 Especially this country.

00:20:13.340 It's just not who we are in any way, culturally, by nature.

00:20:19.180 I want to turn to the prospects.

00:20:24.800 What, Colonel, do you see as a result?

00:20:28.000 I know we're in early days, or in point of fact, early day of this invasion and all that is to follow.

00:20:35.700 But what do you see as the likely plan of Putin, the likely response of the West, and particularly the United States and President Biden?

00:20:45.140 Well, I think we know Putin's plan, which is first and foremost seize eastern Ukraine and the southern region that reaches out to Odessa and incorporate that as Russia, which makes sense historically. 0.67

00:21:01.760 And he's argued that before, as his predecessors did.

00:21:05.220 So that makes sense.

00:21:06.460 Whether or not he moves on to the West toward the Polish border, I can't say.

00:21:10.480 I hope not.

00:21:11.160 And I hope some other arrangement can be made for that, because I think it is useful, just as he wants a buffer, for us to have a buffer.

00:21:20.540 And there's no reason why the rest of Ukraine could not become a neutral state.

00:21:25.280 And we can all agree that let's not garrison it.

00:21:27.900 Let's not station anybody there.

00:21:29.900 The place is an agricultural powerhouse, has some of the richest soil in the world, and left to its own devices could be extraordinarily productive.

00:21:38.760 That's where I think we should focus.

00:21:40.220 But on the Western side, I think you're going to watch this thing called the North Atlantic Treaty Organization and ultimately the EU all fall apart.

00:21:48.920 What I find entertaining is the notion that somehow or another this is forcing cohesion on NATO.

00:21:55.200 The Germans have made it very clear they will not support excluding Russia from the SWIFT system.

00:22:00.680 They're not going to throw the Russians out of the international financial system.

00:22:04.260 They want to do business with the Russians.

00:22:06.300 Right.

00:22:06.380 They're not going to throw the dirt in the Russians' face and refuse to buy oil and gas from them.

00:22:16.560 Their alternative is to do what in the short term, which is to turn to the Muslim world. 1.00

00:22:21.140 Why would you want to become completely dependent upon that if you're a German? 0.90

00:22:24.880 Absolutely not.

00:22:25.820 But the Hungarians, the Czechs, the Dutch, Belgians, and others who are not in NATO, like the Austrians, they all will purchase that gas from Russia.

00:22:38.220 And they do not feel threatened by the Russians.

00:22:40.480 They don't feel that there's an imminent invasion.

00:22:43.240 And there isn't.

00:22:43.900 Again, for the reasons I cited, the Russian economy is far too small.

00:22:47.620 Well, this is a great strain on the Russian economy.

00:22:50.940 But Putin and his countrymen believe this is important, so they're going to do it.

00:22:55.600 But beyond that, there's no interest in going to war with the West.

00:23:00.100 We need to accept that.

00:23:01.680 But we won't.

00:23:02.700 But I think that's going to break up NATO.

00:23:05.520 I think it's just going to – what did Henry James say?

00:23:08.120 A sacred cow is never slain.

00:23:09.600 He simply vanishes.

00:23:11.160 Right.

00:23:11.260 I think we're going to wake up, and it's going to be gone.

00:23:14.720 Well, this idea that Ukraine would be partitioned, that it would be divided West and East, I don't think that there would be, obviously, a great excitement about that on the part of the Ukrainian government.

00:23:31.000 But, as you say, I think that that would be, possibly, for Europe, a reasonable outcome, because they're really going to have to contend with some issues that has nothing to do with the United States, when we're honest, I think, and straightforward about it.

00:23:47.260 This is a European issue.

00:23:49.880 It is a Russian issue.

00:23:51.240 And it has to be resolved.

00:23:53.280 But it has to be resolved in such a way that everyone can acknowledge they did their best, did the right thing with human life and dignity at the forefront.

00:24:06.180 Exactly right.

00:24:07.180 That's exactly right.

00:24:08.160 And our real role in all of this from day one should have been as an honest broker between the two, not as a sponsor of hostility and hatred towards Russia.

00:24:17.220 And that's been a terrible mistake on our part.

00:24:20.640 And I'm afraid the Ukrainians are paying the price for it. 1.00

00:24:24.440 And what do you expect Biden to do?

00:24:29.100 Do you trust his judgment?

00:24:33.140 I think that laugh may have been a precursor to the answer.

00:24:38.220 Do you trust his knowledge and his values and that of his advisors?

00:24:44.280 Well, based on having watched him for a long time, as I'm sure you have, Joe Biden was always a sort of get along, go along guy.

00:24:54.780 He tended to move in the direction of, you know, conventional wisdom and mainstream opinion.

00:25:02.820 He's not going to buck anything.

00:25:04.660 He's not going to challenge anything.

00:25:06.260 But at this point, it strikes me that he's become extremely rigid in his thinking.

00:25:13.600 And he's adopted the radical extremist views of the left.

00:25:19.280 It's disastrous.

00:25:20.820 But, you know, that that is also the view of, as you know, the global globalist elites.

00:25:25.800 They want a different future for the world than the world wants for itself.

00:25:30.580 You know, he's he is now playing their tune, which is no borders, no rule of law, no restrictions, nothing, which threatens our society and threatens Western Europe.

00:25:42.400 And, of course, remember, that's a particular tune that Putin has been absolutely unwilling to play.

00:25:50.260 He's not going to throw open his borders and allow billions of people from the Middle East and Africa and South Asia or anywhere else march into his country.

00:25:59.180 And the people in Eastern Europe don't want it.

00:26:01.500 But in Western Europe, they've already done it.

00:26:03.420 They're paying a heavy price for it in terms of criminality and costs associated with welfare funding.

00:26:09.280 So, you know, I just don't expect anything to happen with Biden other than he'll stand up there and repeat these rather insane views about what the United States should be and what the rest of the world is supposed to be.

00:26:22.940 And if you don't agree with him, well, then you're a racist, a bigot, you know, whatever. 0.77

00:26:28.180 Go down the list.

00:26:30.460 That's where we are now.

00:26:31.680 The contest for the United States culturally and societally is to either become the world or let the world try to become us as we move forward as the greatest constitutional republic in history, the greatest capitalist economy.

00:26:52.440 Meanwhile, our greatest enemy is stage left, and that is China. 0.96

00:26:58.660 The PLA has to be amused as we are trying to contend with this.

00:27:05.900 The CCP is laughing all the while and meanwhile going through and taking inventory of everything they've stolen from us for years and the money that we have thrown at them to allow us to be indolent, to lose our spirit of ingenuity and industry.

00:27:23.880 Well, Lou, as you know, Lou, we didn't make it hard for them.

00:27:29.820 Yeah, absolutely.

00:27:31.580 I watched you for so many years talk about the elites in this country, sell us out, you know, export our manufacturing base overseas and so forth.

00:27:42.460 The Chinese, the greatest weapon the Chinese have at their disposal is money. 1.00

00:27:46.020 And the thing that drives far too much in Washington and too much of our society is greed.

00:27:52.480 You've talked about that for years.

00:27:54.160 You were always right.

00:27:55.700 Here we sit.

00:27:58.100 Regrettably, regrettably.

00:28:00.760 Colonel, I hope you will come back soon and we can talk much more because I'm, you're, I always learn something from you.

00:28:09.240 And I know the audience does as well and appreciate you greatly.

00:28:15.340 You get the final word on this broadcast as all our guests do.

00:28:19.700 But I want to say before that, thank you very much, Colonel McGregor.

00:28:24.400 Well, Lou, thank you so much.

00:28:26.140 And I think it's time to bring Lou Dobbs back to TV, at least for some special from time to time,

00:28:33.480 just as a good injection of truth and objectivity, which is so much in demand and seems to be so rare.

00:28:41.800 Colonel, thank you so much.

00:28:43.340 I appreciate that.

00:28:45.580 I'll treasure that as a matter of fact.

00:28:48.100 Look forward to our next conversation.

00:28:50.640 Colonel Douglas McGregor, thanks for being with us.

00:28:53.920 And now a few items.

00:28:55.060 We have reports that Ukraine's President Zelensky has been moved to the safety of a bunker, perhaps in Kiev, but his location is not known.

00:29:04.800 President Zelensky late yesterday said that Ukraine had suffered 137 military and civilian casualties.

00:29:12.740 Russian spokesmen say their military achieved all their goals on day one, including the capture of the Chernobyl nuclear plant site.

00:29:21.980 And now we turn to a member of the House Foreign Affairs Committee, Congressman Greg Stubbe.

00:29:27.540 He is also a member of the Judiciary Committee, an Army veteran who served as an airborne infantry and judge advocate general division officer.

00:29:37.100 Congressman Stubbe is critical of the conduct and the judgment of the Biden White House in dealing with Russia and Vladimir Putin's invasion of Ukraine.

00:29:46.900 Congressman, great to have you here.

00:29:48.660 Welcome to The Great America Show.

00:29:50.180 To begin, your reaction to the Russian invasion.

00:29:54.600 Well, we all knew, especially in Congress, those of us that were paying attention to what was going on, that this was inevitably going to happen because of the weakness that we currently have in the White House.

00:30:03.340 Putin had been telegraphing his positions.

00:30:05.780 Troops were slowly, you know, coming across and gathering at the border.

00:30:10.680 So we all knew at some point the actual invasion would occur.

00:30:13.780 And you have to go back in time to reason why he's doing what he's doing, and that's Putin.

00:30:21.120 And it all starts with Afghanistan. 0.56

00:30:22.860 When you see the leader of the free world basically give up to the Taliban, leave $80 billion worth of military equipment, as you and I are still talking, there are still Americans that are left in Afghanistan.

00:30:33.840 And this government, our government, the White House is not doing anything to get them out. 0.82

00:30:38.320 So the pretext is they now know how this White House, this Department of Defense and our leadership is going to react to foreign aggression, going to react to things across the world.

00:30:50.180 And then Biden decides to repeal Trump-era sanctions on the Nord Stream 2, which opened up billions of dollars straight to the Kremlin for Moscow to be able to fund a lot of the things that he wanted to do.

00:31:03.900 So they knew that there was weakness in the White House.

00:31:06.880 When Trump was president, we had strength and power in our stances, and you would never see anything happen like this if Trump was still the president.

00:31:16.000 But because of the things that have happened and the decisions that this White House has made, of course, they know that Russia knows that they're going to be able to get away with what they're doing.

00:31:25.520 And it's a very sad day for the citizens of Ukraine who are sitting by and helplessly watching the Russians invade while all of the NATO, all of the allies, all of Europe, all of the United States that can actually do something about it aren't doing anything to help them.

00:31:42.020 And even the rhetoric emanating from all of those sources you just mentioned is not particularly clever, crafted, or in any way sincere, do you think?

00:31:54.920 Well, and listen carefully to what Biden said today.

00:31:58.900 We will do everything within the power of the United States to protect our NATO allies.

00:32:03.360 Well, Ukraine is not in NATO, which is one of the big things that Russia wanted to prevent from happening.

00:32:09.940 So, of course, we'll stand with our NATO allies, which is completely not doing anything to help the Ukrainians.

00:32:16.580 And now we're going to put in sanctions that the Biden administration repealed a year ago.

00:32:23.220 When Biden first got elected, he repealed the Trump-era sanctions on Nord Stream 2.

00:32:27.060 And now you're putting them in place again?

00:32:29.340 As soon as Putin started putting troops on the border of Ukraine, if you wanted to send a message to him, that's when the time was to put economic sanctions on the Russian regime.

00:32:41.080 And he didn't. And he's waiting for them to react. And at this point, Putin has already made deals with the Chinese. 0.73

00:32:47.640 You know that any economic sanctions that are coming from the United States or other European allies, he's going to be buffered economically from the Chinese Communist Party.

00:32:57.000 And he knows that. And he knows that the White House isn't going to do anything to stop him militarily.

00:33:01.540 So why wouldn't he invade an area that they believe is part of Russia?

00:33:05.720 You're exactly right. And these sanctions that the president is applying with stern face and stern rhetoric,

00:33:16.720 the effect of which will be to enrich Russia, which has approximately half of its exports, as much as 60 percent now with the United States importing their oil.

00:33:33.080 We're talking about 60 percent of their exports of crude oil.

00:33:36.260 And therefore, he's going to be a beneficiary of the very markets that have just surged as a result of his invasion of Ukraine.

00:33:44.640 This is mindlessness on the part of the administration.

00:33:48.640 And the cable news networks, I think, are awakening to this, but not yet to the point that they can actually say that out loud.

00:33:57.540 But it's true. Of course, of course, of course, they won't do that.

00:34:01.940 And of course, mainstream media won't talk about the failures that this administration is doing.

00:34:07.060 And all in order to buffer this, what you're seeing in, say, oil prices, all that Biden would have to do is reinstitute our own domestic production of oil that he shut down on day one, all of which he could do today.

00:34:22.220 But he's not going to do that, which would buffer what's happening in Russia.

00:34:26.120 And you would actually see prices decrease in the United States.

00:34:29.240 But they don't have any intention on doing that.

00:34:31.120 I thought something that was interesting was something that John Kerry said was, well, I hope that Putin still plans to abide by his, you know, his climate goals.

00:34:39.780 So this administration and the people in it are more concerned about their climate agenda than the lives of the Ukrainian people.

00:34:47.560 A lot of people are very nervous about having troops being moved around by this particular commander in chief, who is not he's not demonstrated any talent for leadership.

00:34:59.780 And certainly his military leadership would be highly questionable.

00:35:06.400 Well, and you're absolutely correct.

00:35:08.740 And the powers of Congress, as it's related to the military over the years, has been drastically eroded over.

00:35:16.560 And it's been Republican and Democrat that have eroded the power of Congress to declare war, to control the purse strings as to where our military service members go.

00:35:24.620 And there's been a group of members that have told the White House that they need to come to Congress to get a vote to support deployment of troops to Europe.

00:35:33.540 That's not going to happen.

00:35:34.700 And this Congress, this Democratic-led Congress by Nancy Pelosi, is not going to hold the Biden administration accountable.

00:35:41.360 If we take the House back in November, which I think we will, then we'll be able to do those type of things.

00:35:46.740 But unfortunately, over the years, the power of Congress as it relates to the military has been eroded.

00:35:51.400 But Congress has the power to declare war.

00:35:53.220 Congress holds the purse strings.

00:35:54.940 And if we don't want troops to be in Poland, Congress should be making that determination and not allow any funding whatsoever to come from Congress that would allow for the troops to be deployed in Poland.

00:36:06.040 Yeah, for the life of me, Congressman, I do not understand why this president keeps trying to get in front of Europe and NATO on the issue of the invasion.

00:36:15.960 It is mindless.

00:36:17.900 He has no plan.

00:36:19.380 He has no basic concept or understanding, it appears, of the motivations of Vladimir Putin and the historical imperative that drives their interest, the Russians' interest, in Ukraine and surrounding Eastern European countries.

00:36:36.360 Yeah, and all that world leaders have to look to is the way that they handled Afghanistan.

00:36:44.320 And if that is how this administration and this Department of Defense, who, quite frankly, is more concerned about transgender rights in the military, vaccine mandates and wokeism and all of these things, equality in our military, instead of the safety and the security of the American people, which should be the focus of our military, instead of those things, all our other world leaders have to do is look at how Afghanistan was handled and know that Biden is not going to do anything as it relates to Russia.

00:37:13.080 And our Chinese adversaries, the Chinese Communist Party is watching this, and I'm sure that they're eyeing up Taiwan as all of this is going on, the Iranians are watching all of this as all of this is going on, and making their own decisions for the betterment of the decisions that they want to make, knowing that we have a White House that is weak, that's not going to make strong decisions, and not going to take military action when necessary.

00:37:39.920 And it's no accident that Xi Jinping today sent eight fighter jets and a reconnaissance aircraft into the air defense zone of Taiwan.

00:37:52.880 He was sending a message loud and clear, and these messages are being sent to a president who, to this point, seems absolutely tone deaf on what are both lines of demarcation on the part of the two most powerful despots in the world, and a serious warning to the United States.

00:38:14.260 Yeah, and that's going to increase, and this hasn't been widely reported, but there's been over 180 military sorties of Chinese aircraft into Taiwanian airspace.

00:38:25.040 And what they're doing is they're probing and prodding to see what the Americans are going to do.

00:38:30.740 And as you have seen, the Biden administration isn't going to do anything, and we have agreements to support Taiwan as it relates to any incursion of the Chinese Communist Party.

00:38:41.100 And I think you're going to see Japan and Australia and some of these other countries realize that America and this White House and this Department of Defense aren't going to hold up to the agreements that they've had with some of these other countries.

00:38:52.580 They're going to look at things like that happened in Ukraine, that happened in Afghanistan, and know that if Chinese Communist Party invades Taiwan, there's nothing that this White House is going to do to stop them. 0.77

00:39:02.840 And the Budapest memorandum in 1994 is a clear obligation on the part of the United States that was given in exchange for Ukrainian nuclear weapons that requires us to provide for their security.

00:39:21.020 And we've ignored it as well as dishonored it.

00:39:26.460 Your reaction?

00:39:27.400 Well, that's an excellent point to make that I think a lot of people today don't realize that that agreement was in place.

00:39:34.900 And if the Ukrainian government wouldn't have entered into that agreement with the United States, they right now would have nuclear power to be able to defend themselves.

00:39:42.680 And Putin never would have stepped on the ground knowing that he would have gotten into a nuclear war with a neighboring country.

00:39:48.580 And the fact that he, his troops have now taken possession of the Chernobyl nuclear power plant and environmental disaster that it is, that is a very stark warning to all of the Western countries, including the United States.

00:40:08.080 It's not an accident that he is now in charge of that.

00:40:12.520 That is a looming threat should anyone decide to take on Russia.

00:40:18.160 Do you not agree?

00:40:20.440 Oh, absolutely.

00:40:21.840 And all of Europe is going to stand by and watch Putin do this.

00:40:27.140 And Ukraine is only going to be the beginning of all of the area that once he takes Ukraine, he's going to move on to the next area, like Belarus or some of these other areas, 0.70

00:40:35.200 where he feels like he can, he can take over and watch NATO and the UN and all these other European countries, just stand back and let them do it.

00:40:43.140 As we're wrapping up here, Congressman, your thoughts on what the future holds, what is the, what are the, the next developments?

00:40:53.140 Well, unfortunately we, we have to pray for the American or the Ukrainian people and hope that there are, there are Americans there.

00:40:59.860 Hopefully our government won't leave the Americans that we had in Afghanistan behind and we'll go in and get the, the American citizens that we have in Ukraine out while all of this is going on. 0.79

00:41:10.680 But given what this administration has done in Afghanistan, I don't have a lot of hope and comfort that that's going to happen.

00:41:15.920 I saw an article just before this, that there's, there's not for profits and, and other organizations trying to go in and do missions to get our citizens out.

00:41:24.340 So I think that's what you're going to see start to unfold because this administration is unwilling to do the things to protect American citizens caught in, in foreign lands that are in the middle of, of wartime.

00:41:34.960 And I don't think this is the end we're going to see from Putin.

00:41:37.160 And it's just the beginning of what now the Chinese Communist Party is going to do and what the Iranians are likely going to do. 0.92

00:41:43.640 Many more tests to come.

00:41:45.980 Congressman Snoopy, thanks so much for being with us.

00:41:48.020 We appreciate it.

00:41:48.800 Look forward to talking with you again soon.

00:41:50.700 Thank you.

00:41:51.880 Yes.

00:41:52.140 Thanks.

00:41:52.440 Congressman Greg Stuby.

00:41:55.200 We turn now to Morgan Wright.

00:41:57.420 He's a leading internationally respected expert on cyber warfare, cyber terrorism, and attacks.

00:42:03.400 And in Ukraine, the Russians have launched many of those attacks.

00:42:08.420 Great to have you here on the Great America Show, Morgan.

00:42:11.220 Please tell us how sophisticated, how damaging these Russian cyber attacks are.

00:42:16.880 Hey, Lou.

00:42:17.320 Great to be back with you, sir.

00:42:18.500 There are – what it's doing is these initial attacks – this is the new doctrine of warfare.

00:42:24.340 It includes these hybrid cyber attacks that are the first phase.

00:42:27.600 Before, it used to be airborne jumping in or you'd see something.

00:42:30.400 Now it's the cyber attacks coming in first.

00:42:32.640 And this initial part, Lou, which I firmly believe it was designed to do, it was designed to disrupt things.

00:42:37.620 It was designed to cause panic, make people think because it's visible.

00:42:41.060 It's something they could see, which was the website is down.

00:42:43.860 I can't get to my money.

00:42:45.060 There's no – they can't communicate with us.

00:42:46.920 So that's part of a – while that's not as technical as some of the other stuff, it is very much part of a psychological operations to start instilling fear in the public, to creating panic.

00:42:57.800 And then what they do is they're follow-on attacks, just like you have follow-on attacks with terrorists and other stuff.

00:43:02.440 You've got the follow-on cyber attacks, which now the reporting is coming out.

00:43:06.320 We've got now new sophisticated malware that is wiping the hard drives of devices.

00:43:11.960 It is bypassing firewalls.

00:43:14.260 It is attacking things internally.

00:43:15.840 So this is the silent war.

00:43:17.500 This is the unseen war that's going on right now.

00:43:19.820 The DDoS attacks, the denial of service are the visible part.

00:43:23.000 It's now the invisible part that's really going to wreak havoc on the ability to do command, control, and communicate for Ukraine right now.

00:43:29.380 And nothing is more important right now to the survival of the Zelensky government, that is Ukraine itself, than his ability, I would think, to communicate with whatever forces form the insurgency, the counter to Russian troops as they penetrate deeper into Ukraine and into the hearts of many of these cities.

00:43:56.160 That's why in command and control, the first thing you go after is their ability to communicate and operate.

00:44:01.400 If you can't do that, you can't affect, like you say, how can you get the message out?

00:44:05.060 How do people know what to do?

00:44:06.280 How do they know what countermeasures to take?

00:44:08.500 What is the citizens of Ukraine supposed to do if they can't hear from their president?

00:44:13.760 How is he supposed to rally them?

00:44:15.180 So this is very much, I mean, they're applying the same doctrine of warfare, which is take out command and control, the physical sites, but also take out the virtual sites, the ability to put things up on a web page.

00:44:25.620 And by the way, the other thing, Lou, I'd be very, very careful of, they did this in 2008 when they bombed Georgia. 0.68

00:44:30.820 They rerouted internet traffic out of Georgia to fake web pages.

00:44:34.220 It was fake news.

00:44:35.580 That's where some of the original fake news really came from, was from the Russian operation in Georgia.

00:44:40.560 And now, so you have to be very careful.

00:44:42.340 Even if the pages come back up, we know that they've been building these cloned web pages of government sites that they're loading up with malware.

00:44:49.600 So if you go to them, you know, this is all part of the next phase of this, which is you think it's a legitimate site.

00:44:55.440 You're so craving information, you're willing to click on links, and these links are loaded with malware.

00:44:59.900 So people even have to be very careful about the links they're clicking on and what pages are up there.

00:45:05.080 And are these the real legitimate pages of the Ukrainian government?

00:45:08.080 And that should be a clear clarion warning to everyone listening to us that do not fall into that trap and pursue into the dark on the web information.

00:45:25.020 It is treacherous.

00:45:27.000 By the way, I would never have thought of that, Morgan.

00:45:30.600 And I have luckily not done that.

00:45:32.880 But I'm sure there are a lot of people just like—

00:45:35.380 But you thought you're one of the good guys and not Vladimir Putin, Lou.

00:45:39.040 That's one of them.

00:45:41.480 But I'll take any differentiating characteristic I can between Putin and myself.

00:45:49.820 Can you judge at this point how effective the Russians have been in what you're referring to as the silent war,

00:45:57.480 or the—and, of course, the visible war that is meant to intimidate and to terrorize and cut communications?

00:46:07.440 I think they've been fairly effective.

00:46:09.840 You know, I don't think they're being as effective as what Putin had hoped they would be.

00:46:13.620 And there's one reason for it, or a couple reasons, I think.

00:46:16.360 But one of them is, while Ukraine was not allowed to join NATO, they were also not allowed to join the NATO, basically, Cybersecurity Center of Excellence, the Defense Center,

00:46:28.160 which is actually headquartered in Estonia, which Russia attacked a few years back, took the entire country offline, and they responded.

00:46:34.880 They say, we're going to get good at this.

00:46:36.140 So I think they're getting some tactics and some tools, you know, and technology from this Cyber Defense Center over in Estonia, the NATO Cyber Defense Center, which is helping them respond to this.

00:46:47.900 So I don't think Vlad is going to have the cakewalk he thought he was going to have, whether it's militarily or virtually, you know, digitally right now.

00:46:56.480 But make no mistake, they're good at what they do.

00:46:59.060 They've had long-term plans.

00:47:00.200 In fact, some of the stuff we're seeing out there, where they're using domains of these companies to register these digital certificates, so you think it's the real stuff, you think it's the real software.

00:47:10.200 Some of these things were registered months ago, which tells you about the foresight on the planning, how long back some of this planning to invade was going on, because they led with cyber warfare.

00:47:19.800 So to do that, they had to get their cyber tools in place, and to do that, they had to start registering these domains several months ago.

00:47:26.600 So, and correct me if I'm wrong, but Estonia, a part of Eastern Europe, obviously, and northernmost in that part of Europe, the Baltics, it is very sophisticated and very advanced in its technology, its infrastructure, its connectivity in all respects.

00:47:50.240 Is it not?

00:47:51.980 They wanted, they got religion, Lou, after this attack by Russia, they got religion, and they became, I would say, they are punching way above their weight for a country their size.

00:48:02.060 And that's one reason, I mean, the proof's in the pudding.

00:48:04.700 That's one reason why NATO located that center there, is because Estonia gets it, and they are, they, you know, it's kind of like never again, not on our watch.

00:48:12.820 They're not going to let that happen again.

00:48:14.020 And that's why I think there's a lot of good stuff coming out of Estonia, simply because they were getting picked on by Russia, and they decided, you know what, we're going to fight back in the way that we can, and they've done it digitally.

00:48:24.580 Yeah, and Estonia has a population, I think, of less than a few million people.

00:48:29.340 I mean, it's not exactly a populous urban center.

00:48:34.540 1.331 million people.

00:48:36.500 I just looked it up.

00:48:37.820 Good for you.

00:48:38.560 If I had known you were going to bring it up, I would have.

00:48:42.280 The fact of the matter is, that's encouraging, because all of Eastern Europe is now threatened by the presence of Russian troops who've invaded Ukraine. 0.98

00:48:57.460 I cannot, for the life of me, understand, at this juncture, why NATO, why the European Union has been so muted in its response.

00:49:10.440 And I do, like everyone else now, have great concerns for their ability to defend themselves and to understand Putin's ultimate goals,

00:49:21.880 which look to me to have, if I may put it this way, no borders in front of them.

00:49:28.580 I think he yearns for the days of the Soviet Union and all their satellite states where they had, they were, they were between us and them, we were the only world powers, global superpowers. 0.94

00:49:38.960 So, but, you know, but they have, it takes time to do that, right?

00:49:42.440 So a lot of the territory they lost, they have to go back after it.

00:49:45.500 And one of the ways they do that is with these new tools that have been developed, you know, over the last 20 years, you know, 30 years in cyberspace.

00:49:53.300 And that's why, Lou, cyberspace now is the fifth domain of warfare.

00:49:56.300 You've got sea, air, land, space, and cyberspace.

00:49:59.000 It is a domain of war.

00:50:00.520 Make no mistake.

00:50:01.680 Things are happening.

00:50:02.740 People are dying.

00:50:03.740 And I'm not saying because of the cyber attack, they're dying because the cyber attacks are interfering with command and control.

00:50:10.820 You can't get orders out.

00:50:12.000 You don't have visibility.

00:50:13.120 You've lost your eyes and ears.

00:50:14.480 That is causing the deaths of Ukrainians. 1.00

00:50:17.220 So this attack, this cyber attack is directly linked to the safety and security of the Ukrainian people.

00:50:23.000 And I'm telling you, every time you interfere with communications, every time you interfere with emergency services,

00:50:28.460 every time you interfere with their intelligence, their radar systems, all of these things, you know, over cyber,

00:50:34.080 it directly contributes to the deaths of Ukrainian citizens.

00:50:37.800 Now, we're getting reports that the computers, Ukrainian computers, there have been hit by data wiping software,

00:50:46.960 just exactly as you described.

00:50:49.260 And this is just moments ago from Reuters, you know, again, this is a wholesale attack.

00:51:00.140 I don't know if it's a complete, complete invasion.

00:51:04.760 Russians mean to take over every aspect of Ukraine, it appears at this point. 0.60

00:51:09.120 They have done it through four of the five domains.

00:51:13.100 They've done it through sea, they've done it through air, they've done it through land,

00:51:15.840 and they've done it through cyberspace right now.

00:51:17.640 So this is a pretty holistic type of invasion to where they're bringing all of their tools in to bear.

00:51:25.320 And actually, one thing I would add to, it looks like that some of the targets also are including Latvia and Lithuania

00:51:32.240 and include finance, government, contractors.

00:51:34.860 So, yeah, this, what he's done is he's kind of cast a wide net.

00:51:39.060 He's going after things that may be support mechanisms as well for Ukraine,

00:51:43.200 especially financially and communication-wise.

00:51:46.780 But these people outside the country also have presence inside Ukraine.

00:51:51.480 So Vladimir is attacking those people who have support capacities,

00:51:55.220 and other countries and contractors who are supporting Ukraine,

00:51:58.560 they're being targeted too, which should tell you that he perceives anybody who supports Ukraine

00:52:03.980 as a threat, that includes the United States, that includes the U.K.

00:52:07.500 Germany is high on his list because they canceled the Nord Stream 2, at least for now.

00:52:11.580 Let's hope they stick with it.

00:52:13.240 So all of these people, anybody who commits a slight against Vladimir,

00:52:18.040 and he perceives almost everything as a slight,

00:52:20.580 becomes the crosshairs in his cyber-targeting system.

00:52:26.060 Well, we'll be very careful as we talk about his invasion.

00:52:28.820 What should we call it?

00:52:29.800 Not an invasion, certainly, because we don't want to...

00:52:32.260 It's a mostly peaceful invasion.

00:52:36.180 Well, I'm just talking about, I've heard a number of networks today

00:52:39.860 referring to what Vladimir Putin called his special military operation.

00:52:44.780 My lord, to see networks adjusting their language has been a little bizarre.

00:52:52.060 This is an out-and-out invasion.

00:52:54.280 There is no question about it.

00:52:55.840 Unprovoked, without any justification whatsoever, other than the other domain of war, 0.96

00:53:02.980 which is information and disinformation warfare, psychological operations,

00:53:08.640 is an element.

00:53:10.940 And it's raging, even as his tanks and his jets and cruise missiles are hitting targets in Ukraine.

00:53:21.400 That information warfare is being carried out globally, isn't it?

00:53:25.800 Well, it's also being used to target Ukrainian soldiers.

00:53:28.420 They were sending text messages, SMS messages to their phones saying,

00:53:31.520 hey, you guys can't win, give it up.

00:53:33.740 You know, now we know what your phones are.

00:53:36.180 You know, it also...

00:53:37.040 Look, Lou, look how we acted in the United States after Colonial Pipeline.

00:53:41.940 It was only shut down for five days.

00:53:43.580 We did not have a fuel shortage.

00:53:45.420 People thought we had a fuel shortage, and they acted like that.

00:53:48.520 What we just had was a supply issue, a distribution issue.

00:53:51.160 There was no supply.

00:53:52.980 There was no issue with the amount of oil that we had available to make gasoline and do stuff.

00:53:57.540 But everybody got into panic mode.

00:53:59.860 If you can do this after two or three days, imagine what you can do after a month.

00:54:03.780 Look, there's an old theory of war.

00:54:04.900 If you want to bring a nation to its knees, you go after power and water.

00:54:08.420 Those are the two fundamental blocks, part of Maslow's hierarchy of needs.

00:54:11.700 People want safety.

00:54:12.660 They need their needs met.

00:54:14.180 And if you take away the ability to meet those needs, you can induce panic.

00:54:18.000 And this is how we reacted to a perceived shortage.

00:54:20.520 Imagine the Ukrainian people having to deal with that on top of now you've got bombs coming down

00:54:25.780 and bullets flying and explosions.

00:54:29.460 Don't underestimate the ability of the psychological aspect of this and how cyber adds to it along with the kinetic stuff.

00:54:36.580 There is a political issue in this that no one wants to discuss in this country,

00:54:41.540 and that is the capacity of our president to be a wartime commander-in-chief.

00:54:46.560 It is on the minds of people who will not acknowledge it.

00:54:49.640 It is a great concern.

00:54:53.020 Our military is also another concern because they have been the current secretary of defense,

00:55:01.180 the current joint chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Milley, has done what he did with China.

00:55:08.220 There is something wrong with the principal military advisor to the president of the United States

00:55:15.340 because he feels absolutely authorized and permitted to talk to the Chinese about strikes and to make assurances to them.

00:55:28.600 He has tried to call the Russians in the midst of this.

00:55:31.920 This man is deeply concerning to me, I will say that and speak only for myself.

00:55:39.360 But right now we have a leadership that is untested and whose experience goes back to the Obama administration

00:55:48.900 and arguably that administration and its weakness and failure to enforce red lines,

00:55:55.700 whether they be in Syria or whether they be in Eastern Europe, and allowing Russia to take Crimea without any kind of consequence.

00:56:09.700 Yeah.

00:56:10.340 Gary Oldman, when he played Winston Churchill in the movie, he used a line which I think is maybe a Chinese proverb, ironically enough.

00:56:16.960 But it said, basically, you cannot reason with a tiger when your head is in its mouth.

00:56:20.800 You know, and when we allow ourselves to be compromised and co-opted by major players like China, like Russia, 0.66

00:56:31.140 first of all, there is no reasoning with Vladimir Putin.

00:56:33.700 He's going to do what he wants to do.

00:56:34.880 And, Lou, this leads me to the point.

00:56:36.700 Here's the real problem.

00:56:38.140 The problem isn't the problem.

00:56:39.540 The problem isn't even the way we think about the problem.

00:56:41.740 The real problem is the way our adversaries think about the problem.

00:56:44.900 We're trying to instill our value-making system, the way that we look at the problem, and hope that Vladimir comports to that.

00:56:53.000 Instead, we're not looking at it through the way he does.

00:56:55.740 And that's the failure of leadership.

00:56:57.000 That's the failure of having the big picture after 9-11.

00:56:59.280 It was a failure of imagination, failure of communication.

00:57:02.540 We are failing to look at the way that Xi Jinping looks at the problem, the way that Vladimir Putin looks at the problem.

00:57:08.960 That's the only thing that matters.

00:57:10.300 That's how they're going to react is based upon the way they view the problem.

00:57:13.340 Do you think they care who's in the White House?

00:57:17.040 Maybe they're glad Biden's in.

00:57:19.040 Maybe they're glad Trump's not.

00:57:20.980 But in the long term, Xi Jinping doesn't care.

00:57:23.460 Putin doesn't care because we think it matters.

00:57:27.360 And to some point it does.

00:57:29.420 You did have a certain peaceful time when Trump was the president because the number of rockets coming out of North Korea.

00:57:38.380 There were no military movements by Putin.

00:57:41.780 But again, it goes back to we have to look at it through his eyes.

00:57:45.800 Why was he not doing anything based on the way Vladimir looks through it?

00:57:50.300 And I think part of it was, too, was the intangible that they thought about, you know, Al Qaeda and some of the other people and thought about George Bush is that he was a wild card like Ronald Reagan.

00:58:00.240 You know, I think Trump was a wild card.

00:58:01.880 They couldn't figure him out like Patton in World War Two.

00:58:04.260 That's what made him so dangerous is that there was no pattern.

00:58:06.980 But we have to look at it through the way our adversaries see the problem.

00:58:10.680 And I think that will serve us better than this.

00:58:13.620 Well, I'm worried about what Xi Jinping, you know, I'm worried about what we say, like, well, it's a special military operation.

00:58:20.300 Well, there's no kind of pregnant.

00:58:21.780 There's no, as Dennis Miller said one time, you know, when he converted over, he said there's no such thing as Al Qaeda. 0.91

00:58:27.300 You know, you are Al Qaeda, you are a terrorist. 1.00

00:58:30.880 And in this case, this is not just a in a small incursion or special military operation.

00:58:35.700 By all definition, it is an invasion.

00:58:37.840 When you blow up capitals, when you blow up radar stations, when you shoot and kill people and their military people and your tanks and equipment and people have crossed the border.

00:58:47.560 I don't think it was called a special military operation when Hitler crossed the border into Poland and started World War Two.

00:58:54.000 That was called an invasion.

00:58:56.400 Absolutely.

00:58:56.840 And this is called an invasion on the Great America Show without reservation and hesitation.

00:59:06.200 But I am, as I say, I'm very concerned when I hear networks suddenly adjust their language.

00:59:11.800 And I am concerned when I see a president who is is obviously physically weakened and perhaps mentally as well and not surrounded by the most experienced national security people

00:59:25.560 that have ever inhabited that role in the White House.

00:59:29.980 It's troubling now.

00:59:31.160 Now, and that brings up the next real issue here.

00:59:35.640 How concerned should Americans be about our own networks, our own systems, our own servers, our own cyber universe?

00:59:47.960 You should operate under the assumption that you are going to be attacked and you're going to be attacked by Russia and they're going to use all of their tradecraft and tools and malware in order to do this. 0.96

01:00:00.100 So, but we should have been operating like that.

01:00:03.260 There's not, you know, I get these requests, Lou, a lot, especially with this going on.

01:00:06.820 And they're saying, well, what should businesses do?

01:00:08.760 I said, it's not what you, it's whatever you should be doing is what you should have already done six months ago.

01:00:13.680 You shouldn't be waiting for a threat and decide, ah, you know, I'm going to put, well, I mean, I'm going to wait till my neighborhood's on fire before I decide to put sprinklers, you know, in my house.

01:00:22.980 No, you know, before I put a smoke alarm in.

01:00:25.540 You cannot build a commercial building without having the fire suppression system already built in because they're not going to wait for the problem and then react to it.

01:00:32.880 So I just, you know, these folks, it's one of those things is that you should always assume you're going to be attacked.

01:00:39.080 You know why?

01:00:39.480 Because you don't have to be in the country to do it.

01:00:41.160 Putin does not have to airdrop a platoon of Spetsnaz special forces into the middle of Times Square for us to think, hey, we're under attack.

01:00:49.520 He's doing it from the safety and security of Russia and doing it in ways that is like low intensity conflict.

01:00:56.380 You know, it's enough below the radar to where we don't trigger a massive response.

01:01:00.340 But make no mistake, this, this, people should be, you shouldn't go out and panic in the street and don't run around.

01:01:07.820 Look, folks, we're not storming the beaches at Normandy here.

01:01:10.020 You know, everybody can take a breath.

01:01:12.380 Don't panic.

01:01:13.480 Don't overreact.

01:01:14.720 Go about with your daily lives, but be vigilant.

01:01:17.340 You know, watch for those emails.

01:01:19.680 Be careful.

01:01:20.300 Look, it's like crossing the street.

01:01:22.100 Why should I?

01:01:22.820 Well, Lou, be careful when you cross.

01:01:24.100 Are you not careful every time you cross the street?

01:01:26.420 I mean, you know, there's, there is a heightened sense of awareness to say, look, now with this going on, let's reinforce good practices.

01:01:33.920 What about, what do we do for incident response?

01:01:35.840 Who are our resources if something happens?

01:01:37.980 Who do we call upon?

01:01:39.260 Refresh that in people's mind, but to go out and say, well, let's buy a whole new set of software and install this because we really need to be prepared for an attack.

01:01:46.140 You're a little late by then.

01:01:47.480 I mean, that's stuff that should be going on.

01:01:49.100 You should always assume you're being attacked and prepare for it, prepare for the worst and hope for the best.

01:01:55.420 Absolutely.

01:01:56.320 I do want to go back to one thing you said.

01:01:58.840 I do think it matters greatly who we have in the White House, and I do believe there is a huge difference in the perceptions and the response of Xi Jinping and Vladimir Putin.

01:02:11.020 I cannot imagine either of them doing as they have done.

01:02:15.120 First of all, Donald Trump would not have driven them together to create a strategic security alliance as they did at the beginning of this month.

01:02:24.760 He also would have made very sure that there was going to be a response, whether the military liked it or not.

01:02:32.060 He would have demanded a response in this.

01:02:35.380 I don't know what that response would be.

01:02:37.260 We don't know what Biden's will be.

01:02:39.000 But we do know that I really believe this, and I want to get your comment and then we'll drop this, but I really do think that that's a really critical issue is who we have as our commander in chief, who we have as our president.

01:02:51.760 No, no, I don't disagree with that.

01:02:56.020 Actually, I should clarify the context.

01:02:58.220 What I meant is while Putin and Xi Jinping don't care who's in the White House, I mean they don't care if it's Republican or Democrat.

01:03:05.500 They base their courses of action based upon who is in the White House.

01:03:09.260 So now would they prefer to have somebody else?

01:03:12.400 Absolutely.

01:03:13.160 But when Trump was in there, you know what Putin did?

01:03:15.320 He bided his time.

01:03:16.580 He waited.

01:03:17.300 When your dictator for life is both Putin and Xi are, you can be patient and wait your time because you know it will come.

01:03:28.980 Well, yeah, when you're a benevolent dictator, man, it helps.

01:03:31.560 It's good because you can do whatever.

01:03:33.700 And that's the thing.

01:03:34.400 See, here's the thing.

01:03:35.840 We think in election cycles, well, what's going to happen in two years?

01:03:38.160 What's going to happen in four or six years?

01:03:40.380 Xi Jinping, Vladimir Putin, they don't think that way.

01:03:43.200 They think in terms of decades.

01:03:44.560 I just did an interview of a lady who was a CIA agent that became an FBI agent. 0.85

01:03:49.920 We talked about a Chinese espionage case.

01:03:52.140 They were in place for 28 years before they started their spying.

01:03:56.720 28 years.

01:03:58.760 That's how long-term China thinks.

01:04:00.900 Russia does this. 0.81

01:04:01.540 Why are there more grandmasters out of Russia proportionally than any other country?

01:04:05.180 Because in chess, because Russia gets strategy.

01:04:07.560 They understand it's the long game.

01:04:09.080 And that's kind of to our detriment, but that's why when you have a president like Trump who is to them as a wild card, they adjust their actions accordingly.

01:04:18.500 When you have somebody like Biden, then they adjust their actions accordingly to that.

01:04:22.680 I mean, they care, but they don't care.

01:04:24.620 But to your point, as an American, I care who's in the White House.

01:04:28.660 I care what kind of policies we have.

01:04:30.780 Because guess what?

01:04:31.320 I'm an American citizen.

01:04:32.340 I'm a taxpayer.

01:04:33.040 I care what happens to the safety and security of the United States.

01:04:36.340 So to me, it matters to them not so much because they will just do, A, if it's a Republican, and B, if it's a Democrat.

01:04:43.000 But at the end of the day, make no mistake, the end game, the ultimate goal is the same.

01:04:47.540 How they get there will differ based upon who's in the White House.

01:04:50.300 And if we can get the type of leadership that sets out clear markers that prevents them from obtaining these technologies or getting this revenue or things like that, you can now have a long-term effect on their plans to where it interferes with what they thought they were going to do.

01:05:06.600 Because they hope that we do something every two years or four years, depending on who controls Congress, depends on what kind of laws get passed, depends on how the military is funded, depends on what kind of things we look into.

01:05:17.340 So that's their view.

01:05:18.580 They sit back and they laugh and they go, hey, look, we don't have to worry about it every two years while you may change.

01:05:23.520 We don't change.

01:05:24.440 We have a plan.

01:05:25.200 We stick to it.

01:05:25.900 And that's why they tend to be more successful than us in some of these areas because they have the patience to wait it out.

01:05:33.700 Patience is a virtue.

01:05:36.400 It's going to be interesting to see how patient Europe, NATO, and the United States are.

01:05:43.800 Because now it's clear, just as today, in the midst of all of this, President Xi sent aircraft, eight fighters into, eight or nine fighters into Taiwanese airspace.

01:06:01.060 That was not an accident.

01:06:02.400 That was a message.

01:06:03.220 And I want to get your sense about which of these is the more accomplished in cyber warfare, either China or Russia, and how powerful are they in combination?

01:06:19.020 And does sheer mass matter in cyber warfare?

01:06:22.020 And when I talk about mass, I'm talking about what is a strategic combination of China and Russia.

01:06:29.740 Yeah, you know, China has the numbers, but they don't have the techniques and the tactics that Russia does. 0.94

01:06:35.960 Russia has been a long-term strategic player in this space.

01:06:39.820 And while China, I mean, don't get me wrong, they're both our tier one adversaries. 0.99

01:06:46.600 They both are the top of the food chain.

01:06:48.220 But Russia, there's all sorts of research out there, and it shows Russian tactics versus Chinese tactics.

01:06:54.620 When Russia gets into a network, in less than 10 minutes, they're able to take the next step and the next move inside that network. 0.59

01:07:00.300 It might take China two hours to three hours to do that.

01:07:02.900 So just from a tactic standpoint and a tradecraft standpoint and a skill standpoint, Russia is still, I think, head and shoulders above China. 0.72

01:07:11.020 But China has the ability to control the supply chain, to put 25,000 people onto something where we don't – we couldn't put 25,000 people onto cyber warfare.

01:07:21.680 They could staff that up in a day.

01:07:24.360 And so they can throw numbers on it.

01:07:25.900 And so it's one of those things is they don't have to be good.

01:07:28.380 They just have to be good enough with enough people together.

01:07:30.820 They'll eventually get there, give a monkey a typewriter after a while. 0.80

01:07:35.160 He will type a novel out.

01:07:36.440 It may take a while.

01:07:37.640 But China's got the view of 1,000 grains of sands.

01:07:41.040 Whatever it takes, we'll collect it a little bit at a time.

01:07:44.060 So I would put Russia first. 0.98

01:07:45.420 I would put China a very close second. 0.99

01:07:49.160 And they're still – and then North Korea is third. 0.76

01:07:53.380 And then kind of Iran is fourth, a lot more distance between three and four than there is two and three. 0.51

01:07:58.800 But that's the challenge.

01:08:01.060 Guess what?

01:08:01.340 You can have a small country like North Korea and Iran be on equal footing almost when it comes to cyberspace.

01:08:07.720 Yeah.

01:08:08.020 And another example of it, a positive one, is Estonia, how capable they are, correct?

01:08:14.520 And that's why NATO located that cyber center of defense – center of excellence there for cyber defense in Estonia because Estonia, like I said earlier, punches well above their weight.

01:08:28.080 They are very good at what they do, and they've learned their lessons.

01:08:32.940 And guess what?

01:08:33.520 They're doing it with far fewer people than Russia or China is.

01:08:37.120 Well, I want to get to just a few more questions here before – and I appreciate your time here, Morgan.

01:08:45.640 But I really – I think we all need to understand the capabilities of Ukraine in cyber warfare. 0.64

01:08:53.140 We're concerned about them.

01:08:54.300 And you know that once this conflict moves to urban warfare, the Ukrainians should at least be able to be significantly more successful in opposing the superior Russian forces.

01:09:08.760 That may not be enough.

01:09:10.440 It may be only at the margin, but they will be in a better position.

01:09:13.900 What about cyber warfare?

01:09:15.160 Do they have the capacity to both defend themselves and attack Russia, or would that be unthinkable?

01:09:21.560 I don't think they're going to attack Russia, and I think they – if it were just in and of themselves, no, they don't have the capacity because they haven't really geared up for that.

01:09:33.060 But the fortunate thing is they have become our proxy.

01:09:38.280 This is, in a sense, Afghanistan all over again. 0.93

01:09:41.000 I hate to think of it that way, the Mujahideen, and they were a useful tool for them to be a proxy against Russia. 0.99

01:09:47.980 But Ukraine is, in a sense, a proxy to Russia.

01:09:50.500 We can give them stuff that they otherwise would not have and inflict the types of damage onto Russia that if we had did it directly, they would – Putin would probably consider it an act of war, a very hostile action.

01:10:02.740 So I think he's trying to walk the line between invoking Article 5, especially in cyberspace.

01:10:08.680 But he's walking a very fine line because he's saying that if you deploy these sanctions, I will visit stuff on you you have never thought about before.

01:10:18.440 He's just clearly put a stamp on it.

01:10:20.180 He's saying, I am responsible for this.

01:10:22.060 Well, if that happens to a NATO country, does that invoke Article 5 of the NATO doctrine, and will they respond militarily in some fashion?

01:10:31.380 I don't think it would be kinetic, but I think they would amp up what they're doing from a cyber standpoint, and you would get the 30-member NATO countries.

01:10:38.920 You'd get the Five Eyes Alliance.

01:10:40.740 Maybe you'd get all of this other capacity.

01:10:42.860 I think he's got to be careful of the fights he picks right now, especially in cyberspace, because we can poke a hole in this myth of invulnerability.

01:10:52.200 This is all Russia's. 1.00

01:10:53.220 This bad actor, nothing can happen to them.

01:10:55.480 Trust me when I tell you this.

01:10:57.080 They have got more holes in their armor than we do in ours.

01:11:01.280 We just don't – it is against the law, and journalists die in Russia when you talk about that stuff here.

01:11:07.140 You get Pulitzers for it.

01:11:08.300 There's a difference in the freedom of the press, right?

01:11:10.320 So there is a huge difference in what gets reported in Russia, but make no mistake, if we want to take down their grid, everybody's concerned about them taking down ours.

01:11:20.280 You take down ours.

01:11:21.400 If I were president, I'd say pull the trigger. 0.97

01:11:23.400 You hurt our people. 0.99

01:11:24.300 We hurt your people.

01:11:25.520 There has to be a penalty, and it has to be – it just can't be proportionate.

01:11:29.760 It has to be use of force, which means I go one level above what you did, and I make you hurt because I want to extract the price out of you that says if you do it again,

01:11:38.040 we will then visit something even worse upon you than what you did to us. 0.99

01:11:41.560 They need to understand at some point when you swing your fist, or like I think Tom Clancy said, if you kick a tiger in the ass, you better have a plan for its claws. 0.99

01:11:52.260 Yeah. 0.99

01:11:52.540 Well, no kidding. 0.99

01:11:53.420 And Putin has kicked NATO and Europe in the butt, and it's to be seen what other butts may be in the line of his foot. 0.97

01:12:09.340 I'm very worried about his ultimate goals here, and I think all of Europe should be. 0.98

01:12:14.480 But it's very difficult to discern exactly the next steps, and we'll be, like everyone else in the world, watching it carefully.

01:12:23.360 Let me ask you as we conclude here, what do you see next in this – do we have the capacity to actually witness this war up close through the Internet,

01:12:35.620 through the web, through the devices in Ukraine?

01:12:40.420 Yeah, I think that there are a lot of things being reported out where they're looking at, are networks up, are they down?

01:12:50.120 You've got computers that are detecting malware that are sending it back to be analyzed,

01:12:55.400 and that's how we're finding out a lot of the stuff that's going on, some of these tools that are being used.

01:12:59.780 So I think we're getting kind of a peripheral look at what's going on, what's really going on underneath.

01:13:07.840 I don't know that we'll see that for a while.

01:13:10.000 It's kind of like when the Stuxnet hit the Iran centrifuges and flame virus.

01:13:16.000 It took a lot of time before Operation Olympic Games became known.

01:13:20.220 I mean, it will still take months and years to fully understand what they were doing.

01:13:24.140 But I think we'll get it – because there's more connectivity and more openness and because people want to know,

01:13:29.720 I think as we start to see things happen, I think hopefully the Biden administration,

01:13:35.200 the way they declassified some of this intelligence on the false flag and the invasion stuff,

01:13:39.260 we should declassify and let people know so that they understand that Russia is paying a price.

01:13:44.200 Because if I don't see anything happening to Russia, especially in the cyber realm, 0.80

01:13:48.460 then my assumption is we're doing nothing.

01:13:51.300 And you're going, well, we can't tell you we're doing stuff.

01:13:53.420 I think in this case we have to tell them something.

01:13:55.760 We've got to tell people something is that here's what we did.

01:13:58.400 Here's the effect it had.

01:13:59.560 And if they do it again, here's what we're going to do.

01:14:02.140 I think we need to lay down a marker, not just with NATO, but we need to lay it down in cyberspace

01:14:07.680 because if we don't stop him there, he will feel compelled to attack Germany.

01:14:11.600 And if he can get away with that, he'll do the UK and he'll do us.

01:14:15.080 There's absolutely no doubt Putin will look to right a bunch of perceived wrongs

01:14:20.320 as long as this war is going on with Ukraine.

01:14:22.340 We're going to, as you, as you say, the, the imperative for the United States is at least

01:14:30.520 in my judgment, partly because we have responded with rationalization when we have not created

01:14:36.980 consequences, whether it be the Russians or whether it be the Chinese or non-state actors

01:14:42.540 who've penetrated our, our cyber world, uh, and, uh, walked away with the amazing data

01:14:50.620 and, uh, and, and amazing amounts of dollars.

01:14:54.600 Uh, do you agree with that?

01:14:57.600 China robs us of six to $700 billion a year of intellectual property.

01:15:02.740 They do what they call the three R's. 0.99

01:15:04.780 They rob us of our technology, they replicate it, and then they replace us with it.

01:15:09.120 Um, we have just, we've got to quit bending over for these guys.

01:15:13.640 I mean, everybody, they hold so much of our debt.

01:15:17.280 We get concerned, well, we can't do this.

01:15:18.640 You've got professional basketball players who apologize.

01:15:21.800 John Cena apologizes in Chinese for offending the Chinese, even though the Olympics were the

01:15:27.000 worst example of human rights violations, what they did to our athletes and other athletes

01:15:31.660 and what was going on over there is just atrocious.

01:15:35.300 So, um, I don't know the answer to that, Lou, other than I think somebody needs to pour a bag

01:15:40.140 of miracle grab in their miracle grow in their lap and grow a set and start pushing back and

01:15:45.400 saying, sorry, this is it.

01:15:47.340 No more.

01:15:48.060 We got to start.

01:15:48.740 It will take time.

01:15:49.700 And that's why we need patience, Lou.

01:15:50.900 It will take time, but we've got to start carving out energy independence again.

01:15:54.300 We've got to start carving out supply chain again.

01:15:56.820 We've got to start carving out our financial situation again.

01:16:00.000 That will not happen if we change our course in the river every two years.

01:16:04.680 We've got to have a long-term strategy that everybody can get behind.

01:16:09.060 Well said, as we would expect.

01:16:11.500 Morgan Wright, we thank you for spending this time with us and giving us your insight and

01:16:16.680 perspective and sharing your knowledge with us.

01:16:19.960 We thank you so much.

01:16:21.060 Uh, I want to just say, uh, to you, uh, you, you know, you've been eloquent and informative

01:16:27.480 and God bless you.

01:16:29.140 Uh, and we conclude with always on this broadcast, uh, final words from our guests.

01:16:34.520 Um, Lou, I'm, I'm at a loss because, uh, you know, first of all, I want to say thank you

01:16:40.960 because all the times we've been on the air together over the years, you've always looked

01:16:45.100 at the issues and I mean, we've got to get down to the heart of the issues.

01:16:47.960 Um, and I think this is one of those times I really appreciate the opportunity to be on

01:16:52.060 here, but I will tell you this, this should tell people more than anything else is that

01:16:57.380 if you don't think there's a real danger out there, if you don't think there's a real threat

01:17:00.760 out there, not just from Russia, but China will use this now as a playbook for how to 0.65

01:17:05.340 do this and get away with it.

01:17:07.060 If we don't start putting people in positions of power who are willing to hold themselves

01:17:12.140 accountable as well as these adversaries, then this situation will get worse before it gets

01:17:17.780 better.

01:17:18.100 And it may get to a point where we cannot recover from it.

01:17:20.980 And we will constantly be a detonation with our head in the jaws of a tiger, leaving us

01:17:26.300 unable to negotiate.

01:17:28.560 Well, I assure you, Morgan, uh, we will be committed on this podcast to precisely those issues, uh,

01:17:36.480 national security and looking to afford, uh, a future, uh, that includes the United States,

01:17:42.220 uh, as preeminent among, uh, powers, uh, Morgan, thanks so much for being with us.

01:17:47.460 I hope you'll join us here again soon.

01:17:49.680 Great talking with you.

01:17:50.580 Anytime, sir.

01:17:51.500 Thank you.

01:17:51.840 Thank you, sir.

01:17:52.960 And God bless you for listening and being with us and God bless America.

01:17:57.500 Join us again tomorrow for the great America podcast.

01:18:01.020 Stay in the fight.

01:18:01.960 Truth, justice, and the American way will prevail against all enemies, against all odds.

01:18:07.380 Divis, everything, and the lands.

01:18:07.480 Truth, justice, and the 어�uetant.

01:18:18.640 It, I hope you'll push each other.

01:18:21.980 The equator's, you know, the, one and two, two, two, three, sevens will, but we'll go evacue

01:18:26.400 to our heads.

01:18:28.460 In somed, if we'll have you, get over Capitol, we'll play Bethel in the corner of the straitment

01:18:29.940 and a bunch of lions.

01:18:31.120 And to the, whatever, you'll do it fine.

01:18:32.620 Get機, check it out recently.

01:18:33.160 I know, it's nice.

01:18:34.120 And I'll see you as wind.

01:18:34.920 Great, thanks.

The Great America Show - February 25, 2022

BIDEN WH AND EUROPE COWER AS RUSSIA INVADES UKRAINE

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