The Great America Show - FEEBLE U.S. LEADERSHIP HAS ALLOWED CHINA AND RUSSIA TO UNDERMINE WESTERN DOMINANCE OF THE GLOBAL ECONOMIC SYSTEM

00:00:00.000 Hello, everybody. I'm Lou Dobbs, and welcome to The Great America Show. It's great to have you with us.

00:00:05.380 It's been an interesting week for U.S.-China relations, the FBI arresting two New York City

00:00:11.360 residents on charges of conspiring to act as agents for China and obstruction of justice.

00:00:18.860 The two men, authorities say, operated a Chinese secret police station in the Chinatown area of

00:00:25.180 Manhattan. The Department of Justice said the men worked together to establish the first overseas

00:00:30.540 police station on behalf of China's Ministry of Public Security. If convicted, they face up to 25

00:00:38.780 years in prison. Turning now to the latest on Jack Teixeira, the man accused of the biggest document

00:00:46.180 leak since Edward Snowden. New documents from the Pentagon leak show U.S. officials knew about four

00:00:52.680 more Chinese surveillance balloons than they revealed to the public. One of those balloons

00:00:58.020 reportedly flew over a U.S. carrier group in the Pacific Ocean. That occurrence was never reported

00:01:04.540 publicly. The Pentagon saying this week they don't know how many more leaked documents are out there

00:01:10.400 as they look to mitigate the embarrassment to the Biden administration and damage to national security.

00:01:17.720 Joining us now is Gordon Chang, author, attorney, China expert, and Tony Schaefer, president of the

00:01:24.540 London Center for Policy Research and host of the all-new podcast, The Hard Truth with Tony Schaefer.

00:01:31.640 Gordon, Tony, great to have you with us here. And what we know will be a fascinating conversation

00:01:37.920 about foreign policy, particularly as it pertains to China. Let's turn to the summit, the recent summit

00:01:45.100 between Xi and Putin. Your thoughts, Gordon, about the importance of that summit and what came of it.

00:01:52.120 There's a lot that went on behind the scenes, which we don't know about, Lou, of course. But the important

00:01:57.760 thing is when Xi Jinping actually said farewell to Putin, and this was public, and Xi Jinping said,

00:02:06.140 change is coming, change that has not occurred over the last century. And then he said to Putin,

00:02:12.160 and you and I together are driving that change. Well, what he was really saying was that the U.S.

00:02:19.300 was no longer a factor because China and Russia together were basically determining the course

00:02:26.060 of the world. And in a sense, you know, that's right, because they have been driving events,

00:02:31.960 because the United States, which is basically a far stronger power than China and Russia combined,

00:02:37.440 is led by a weak leader. So you've got two, I believe, weak states, China and Russia, with strong

00:02:45.040 leaders. And the United States, a strong state with a weak leader. But we know who is actually the one

00:02:51.480 right now that is, as Reggie Jackson used to say, the straw that stirs the drink.

00:02:58.340 Yeah, your thoughts, Tony. So I agree with Gordon. I think the two things which we're going to watch

00:03:06.840 is the fact that since Gordon is correct, the leadership of the United States is seen as

00:03:12.980 ineffective, as weak. And while the potentiality there is for the United States to influence

00:03:20.320 events, it's chosen not to. So that nature abhors a vacuum, Lou. And so China is stepping into that 0.79

00:03:27.720 vacuum, especially in the Middle East. The other area which the Chinese are clearly the PRC is 1.00

00:03:33.280 leading on is the Middle East, where they've been able to bring two warring powers that go back 100 0.98

00:03:39.220 years or more, the Sunni and Shia, the Saudis and Iranians to the table to a potential negotiated

00:03:47.840 agreement, which in my view, torpedoes the Abraham Accords, because obviously we were working with 0.98

00:03:55.300 our Sunni, our Saudi allies to bring peace via this process with the Israelis. That's gone because 0.79

00:04:04.860 the Biden administration did nothing to manage that. And secondly, to Gordon's point, both parties,

00:04:11.560 both powers together, the Russians and Chinese, both seek to undermine the Western dominance of the global 0.98

00:04:19.680 economic system, particularly the dollar. The dollar has been since Nixon made it, the petrodollar,

00:04:28.540 the reserve currency of the world. Clearly, Putin doesn't want that. He's doing everything he can

00:04:34.060 to undermine and make sure that he gets rubles for the energy he sells. And clearly, the Chinese are 1.00

00:04:39.500 going to partner with him to allow them to be the receiver of those energy needs. And I think that's one of the

00:04:49.040 things China needs as a reliable partner to provide it energy. So what better than to have the Russians 0.98

00:04:54.340 working with you to strengthen your economy and your energy needs and then work with you as a

00:04:59.740 partner to undermine our global dominance in currency? And I do believe, Lou, that the ultimate

00:05:04.520 objective of both the Russian leader and the Chinese leader is to basically defang the United States from

00:05:12.180 the position of power that Gordon outlined, that we are a very powerful country. But if we're not no

00:05:17.800 longer the currency of choice, then our economy, I think, will be suffering greatly. And that's what

00:05:23.860 the Chinese, I think, ultimately want. They don't want to have to meet us in battle if they can defeat 0.99

00:05:27.400 us economically.

00:05:29.420 And economics is really the battlefield of the 21st century, in my opinion. Hopefully, it'll remain so.

00:05:39.300 But when we look at this summit, what really came of it, one of them was the comment by Vladimir Putin

00:05:48.480 that this is not a military alliance between China and Russia. I'm not too sure what that means.

00:05:58.480 I'd like to hear from each of you on that. Gordon?

00:06:01.360 Well, first of all, technically, Putin is right. China does not have an obligation,

00:06:08.340 a legal obligation to defend Russia by treaty. China is so arrogant that it does not want to 0.67

00:06:15.140 have alliances. In fact, it only has one alliance, and that is with North Korea. And that's an historic 0.90

00:06:20.340 relic. And the Chinese are embarrassed to buy it. They don't talk about it. But it doesn't really

00:06:25.480 matter whether it's a formal alliance or not. We have China all in supporting Russia on the

00:06:32.200 Ukraine war. And it's been the elevated commodity purchases, which effectively finance Putin's war

00:06:37.840 effort. China opening up its financial system to sanctioned Russian institutions. China putting

00:06:44.500 its diplomats in service of the Kremlin. China putting central government and Communist Party

00:06:49.780 propaganda outlets to amplify Russian disinformation about the war. And from the very beginning of

00:06:55.320 this war, China's been providing lethal assistance to Russia. Biden administration says lethal

00:07:01.020 assistance is a red line, but the Chinese keep crossing it. Biden doesn't want to acknowledge 0.99

00:07:06.320 that. And so the Chinese hear our warnings as hollow. And some of the most dangerous moments in history is 0.91

00:07:13.240 when you have aggressors believe that the great democracies are only capable of issuing hollow

00:07:18.600 warnings. And that's the situation we have right now, Lou.

00:07:21.520 Tony, your thoughts about what Gordon has just said?

00:07:27.220 Yeah, look, yeah, I think they have done exercises, that is the Russians and the PRC. So they have a

00:07:36.300 relationship. But simply having a relationship does not mean it's an alliance. And I think they're downplaying

00:07:41.640 it at this point, because they they do want to be seen as two independent powers that are seeking

00:07:47.540 their own future, but working together on mutual terms of interest. I think there's a long term

00:07:56.300 danger, Lou, that China will eventually turn on Russia. But right now, it's a it's a marriage of

00:08:04.460 convenience. Again, as I mentioned before, the economic winds of fate have pushed them together.

00:08:10.340 China quickly allowed for the bypassing of sanctions right after we we put them on Russia back about a

00:08:18.080 year, a little over a year ago, when the invasion happened. They've been happy to do that. And then

00:08:23.840 also, again, the reliable energy source for China is important. I think ultimately, China will see 0.68

00:08:29.740 Russia as a weak partner and dominated much like I'm going to use this analogy and it may get me in 0.89

00:08:36.540 trouble. But, you know, the Nazis and and Russia, the Soviets were very happy to carve up Poland at 0.94

00:08:43.700 one point. But then obviously, you know, when Hitler thought that it was in his interest to move on and 0.78

00:08:48.260 do, you know, to be the greater power, he did it. And I see the Chinese with their ultimate cultural 0.83

00:08:54.560 belief that they are the chosen people of the world. And a certain level of arrogance, as as Gordon

00:09:00.600 said, they're very arrogant. I think a lot of it has to do with them being the belief that the Han 0.99

00:09:05.600 their their people are the the cultural enlightened that are due to eventually rule the planet. So I

00:09:14.200 think there's a certain amount of that in this relationship. But Putin, again, will use the

00:09:18.620 relationship right now with the Chinese for mutual benefit. They both see benefit at this point.

00:09:23.140 One of the points of departure, I think, is when we talk about arrogance and geopolitics,

00:09:30.760 do either of these countries and arrogance, I think, can be safely ascribed, you know, ascribed

00:09:37.380 to both to both Russia and China. But does either of those countries rise to the level of the United

00:09:46.520 States and the arrogance of its leaders? There is nothing more arrogant than ignoring obvious,

00:09:53.940 clear and present dangers and threats, which are surrounding us from the east, from the west.

00:10:03.120 And certainly Europe right now looks like nothing more than a beachhead for Western civilization,

00:10:10.100 nothing approaching its center.

00:10:14.220 Yeah, Lou, I think that the Biden administration is arrogant. Another word that I would use would be

00:10:20.540 oblivious. Another word would be feeble. But clearly, we see all of those strains there where Biden is not

00:10:28.800 willing to acknowledge what's happening in the world. The world is dividing into camps. China and Russia are 0.89

00:10:34.240 forming the core of a new axis. And around that core, you have North Korea, Iran, Pakistan, Algeria.

00:10:42.140 And when one of these regimes cause troubles, the others are actually, I think, going to take advantage of it.

00:10:48.980 And so we're going to see trouble break out around the world. And that's really the you know,

00:10:54.840 that's really the problem right now in Ukraine. And that is that I think the future of the world gets 1.00

00:11:01.660 written in Ukraine, or at least the future of the next several decades gets written in Ukraine, where

00:11:06.160 if we prevail, the Chinese and the proxies, I think, slink back into the shadows. But if Putin does well 0.92

00:11:15.380 there, I'm sure China is going to see that as a green light on Taiwan, Japan, the Philippines, India,

00:11:20.540 the United States. So this is an exceedingly consequential moment. And it's Biden's arrogance

00:11:27.980 or obliviousness or feebleness, or all three that are really driving this right now.

00:11:34.780 Yeah, and I agree, Lou, with Gordon on this. There's an arrogance by the fact that the Biden

00:11:43.320 administration and those who inhabit it exercise an extraordinary version of projection. They project

00:11:54.220 onto others on the international stage what they think they should be doing. Tony Blinken is a master of

00:12:00.720 being completely feckless in his understanding of foreign parties. And I think it's the idea that

00:12:08.240 that in many cases, they project that Biden administration projects onto others, how they

00:12:15.760 would react to stimulus. It's amazing to watch how they cannot accept feedback that tells them,

00:12:25.680 hey, this ain't working like you think it is. Or if it is working, like you think it is, you don't

00:12:31.840 actually take advantage of it and do something else to stabilize the situation. And I'm going to say

00:12:38.300 something now that may not sit well with everybody. But look, the Biden administration is not trying to

00:12:44.000 win Ukraine as much as they're throwing money at it. And I've got a chart over here that outlines

00:12:49.280 the $113.4 billion that they've sent. It's feckless. Sun Tzu once said, tactics without strategy is the

00:13:00.460 noise before defeat. And there's nobody in the Biden administration thinking strategically.

00:13:06.200 They do not understand or wish to comprehend what Gordon said regarding linkages on the global stage.

00:13:13.040 Putin, much of what he's doing is playing his speech on the anniversary of the war. It was to play to an

00:13:20.360 audience that he finds important, which is the Russian audience and those in the third world, in Asia

00:13:27.480 and Africa. The Biden administration doesn't even come up as a blip now because they're so detached

00:13:34.180 from the reality in which these other countries live and want work. And that's what and what's

00:13:40.100 dangerous about it is they don't even understand that. They don't even understand, Lou, that the

00:13:44.000 world's passed them by. And to Gordon's point, there's new camps being formed. It's like when you

00:13:49.680 were a kid, you know, on the on the playground being picked for dodgeball. They've been picking their

00:13:54.640 dodgeball teams. And Joe Biden ain't going to be picked anytime soon. We're talking with Tony

00:13:59.320 Schaefer and Gordon Chang. Please stay with us. We'll be right back after this quick message from

00:14:04.660 our sponsor. We're back now talking with Tony Schaefer, Gordon Chang. I think it's as troubling as all of

00:14:13.120 that is the consolidation of power centers around the world, a realignment, if you will, a shift,

00:14:21.800 perhaps even a tectonic level shift in in trade, in military, in military as well as economic

00:14:34.380 relationships. There have to be conditions preceding because to go to the point about tactics without

00:14:42.880 strategy. What we are watching may not be without strategy because we may not it may not have been

00:14:49.960 articulated. So I'm going to ask both of you, what do you see as the condition, the conditions

00:14:57.920 preceding to this global alignment that is built around the the axis of both China and Russia? And

00:15:09.320 let's consider that's an intermediate relationship, the terms of which can be satisfied for the next

00:15:16.800 10, 20 years. What are the what are the conditions that have to be met before there is such a thing as

00:15:24.700 a a a real adjustment in the power centers favoring both China and Russia and diminishing

00:15:36.720 the United States role? Because let's be and I want to add one other thing in that

00:15:42.360 the European nations, what are there are only seven nations that are meeting their 2% of budget

00:15:48.340 obligations for military preparedness? They are basically bystanders on their own front.

00:15:57.800 And the United States, this administration is trying to assert itself. 0.99

00:16:01.720 They look ludicrous and and feeble, the Europeans. But that is either by design or by default. 1.00

00:16:11.500 If you if you would begin with those thoughts, if you would, Gordon.

00:16:16.800 Yeah, the condition preceding, Lou, is the failure of American leadership. And that's what we have right

00:16:22.100 now. There would not have been an invasion of Ukraine if there were not the catastrophic withdrawal

00:16:28.300 from Afghanistan. That catastrophic withdrawal, you know, as Tony's been talking about, is really just

00:16:35.180 Biden's failure to understand the consequences of what was going to happen. And then after it happened,

00:16:42.800 Biden absolutely refused to acknowledge what had occurred. So you then have Ukraine. Ukraine is going

00:16:49.860 to lead on to something else. You know, if we go back to something which was analogous during the 1970s,

00:16:55.980 we had Nixon and Kissinger there saying, well, we need to have detente because the Soviet Union was going

00:17:01.380 to be there forever. And so therefore, we need to have this understanding and dialogue with the

00:17:07.360 Soviets. Well, Reagan said, yeah, I'll talk to the Soviets, but I believe we should win. They should 1.00

00:17:13.960 lose. That was Reagan talking about his strategy. That was American leadership. Once there was American

00:17:19.860 leadership, you saw the reactivation of the dissidents in the Soviet Union.

00:17:24.800 You saw all sorts of other good things occur. And that eventually led to the failure and collapse

00:17:30.260 of the Soviets. Now, it's the same thing right now. What we're having is a collapse of the international 0.64

00:17:35.740 order. And it's collapsing because Joe Biden does not understand as this is what Tony was just saying

00:17:42.140 a few moments ago. It is the direct result of a lack of strategy, a lack of understanding,

00:17:48.060 a lack of execution by the Biden team.

00:17:52.520 And if I could add to that, Lou, to the question, what precedes the change is the fact that

00:17:59.320 we have abandoned the high ground. For better or for worse, the United States, after World War II,

00:18:06.460 inherited the global mantle of empire. And I'm not an eocon, and please take my words for the grain of 0.97

00:18:13.120 salt. I once debated Ron Paul when he was running for president on your colleague,

00:18:17.740 John Stossel's show on Fox Business a few years ago when he ran. And Ron Paul was against the idea

00:18:24.680 of us being the referee or determinant factor for keeping lines of communication and commerce open.

00:18:33.180 And my argument was, yeah, I'm not necessarily for us doing it, but if we don't do it, who does it then?

00:18:39.420 And that's the danger here where if we're not the ones doing it, someone else may do it.

00:18:43.480 And I don't think we're going to necessarily like the way they do it. It's not going to be fair.

00:18:46.740 And I think if nothing else, we have been, Lou, mostly attempting to be fair regarding the global system of

00:18:56.800 economic exchange and commerce. I don't believe for a minute the Chinese are going to share our altruism 1.00

00:19:04.460 in the interest of global trade. I think they will gain and seek advantage at every step, and I don't think

00:19:09.900 we're going to like that. So the condition is obviously us slipping away from the international order which has

00:19:15.220 existed. And then the other thing relating to that is the fact that the U.S. empire, which Reagan did,

00:19:22.800 I think, act appropriately from strength. The idea is we will be strong, we will be prepared to act,

00:19:29.620 but we will try not to act. And I think that's what's lacking now, too. Biden acts the opposite.

00:19:36.160 Anytime that there's an option of using force, they use weakness, they show weakness. Heck, the other day

00:19:41.740 when the Iranians attacked the troops in Syria, which I'm not for our troops being there right now,

00:19:48.800 I don't think they have a clear mission. But when they were attacked after the United States Air Force

00:19:53.740 retaliated using F-15 strike eagles, the Pentagon immediately apologized, like, oh, I'm sorry. I'm

00:19:58.540 sorry we hit you. We really don't want to expand conflict. Sending the exact opposite message, like

00:20:04.060 they're just asking, Lou, for others to be more aggressive, coming after the elements of U.S.

00:20:11.700 foreign policy, because the perception is nobody's going to do anything seriously to push back against

00:20:16.720 any aggression by a third power. Let me go to what you said earlier about American altruism. It's

00:20:24.020 sort of interesting to hear you talk about the American empire and its altruism at the same time.

00:20:31.300 We've never had an empire, and we frankly have not been altruistic. Altruism sometimes is the sort of,

00:20:38.960 forgive me, Tony, but when you strike a bad bargain and you lose, I guess a great defense is to say

00:20:50.720 that's altruistic of me to have turned over whatever that value was. Yes, that's true.

00:20:55.860 And the reality is, we have been, our Wall Street has been acting with immense greed and capitalist

00:21:04.220 fervor to get into China. And they've had their heads handed to them. Right now, we've watched an

00:21:13.320 immense transfer of capital, and I'm talking by the trillions of dollars, into China. We have permitted 0.76

00:21:21.940 through the investment of corporations, whether they be Tesla, General Motors, whatever the

00:21:29.400 manufacturing that has gone into China out of the global 1000 from the United States is now,

00:21:36.920 it was just used as a lever by the communist Chinese to leapfrog 20 years of development, 0.84

00:21:44.100 design, intellectual property creation. I mean, they are now on a parody with us because they have

00:21:52.940 stolen, and we have gifted them decades worth of intellectual capital that they won't have to

00:22:00.140 invest. Do you agree, Gordon? Oh, absolutely. And that really has been the nature of our relationship

00:22:07.140 with China. We have allowed China to corrupt our elites, to steal our intellectual property, 0.99

00:22:12.600 to kill Americans with COVID-19 and with fentanyl, and the list goes on and on. And the United States,

00:22:18.680 going back to Tony's point about altruism, you know, the United States, I agree, does not have

00:22:25.140 an empire. I mean, at the end of World War II, we were the strongest nation in history. And yet what

00:22:30.860 we chose to do was develop a rules-based system. Well, China came along. After the end of the Cold 0.73

00:22:38.440 War, people were saying, oh, you know, we'll integrate China into this system. And after that, 0.79

00:22:44.580 we just ignored continuing bad behavior on the part of the Chinese. And as we ignored that bad 0.98

00:22:51.140 behavior, you know, Chinese leaders said, well, look, you know, the Americans aren't enforcing

00:22:55.700 their norms. So they're not enforcing their own laws in the United States. So what the Chinese decided 0.83

00:23:02.320 to do was to engage in even worse behavior. So over the course of decades, we taught Chinese leaders

00:23:09.300 to be more aggressive, to be more belligerent, to be more malicious. So this is the greatest failure

00:23:15.600 in American diplomatic history is our relations with China after the Cold War.

00:23:20.700 Tony, we'll get your response to that. We'll take a quick break here. We're talking with Gordon Chang

00:23:26.300 and Tony Schaefer, and we'll be right back. We're back now talking with Gordon Chang and Tony Schaefer.

00:23:33.900 Tony, before the break, Gordon said Biden allowing China to walk all over us the way they have

00:23:39.840 has been the greatest failure in American diplomatic history. Your thoughts?

00:23:45.160 I agree with both of you. We are not an empire. I'm strongly in agreement. What I'm saying is

00:23:50.660 FDR made the point of ending the British dominance their empire. I mean, that was part of his objective 0.99

00:23:56.960 during World War II. And to Gordon's point, we set up a rules-based system instead of us becoming an

00:24:02.840 empire. What I'm trying to say is we have jeopardized that framework, which has allowed

00:24:08.200 the world to trade and act freely. And I don't dispute what you're saying about businesses trying

00:24:14.080 to go into China. But to Gordon's point, they've had their lunch eaten over and over again. We've

00:24:20.100 gained nothing. Bill Gertz even did a book a few years ago called Betrayal, where he talked about the

00:24:25.620 Chinese essentially being given by U.S. companies MIRV, multiple independent reentry vehicle

00:24:32.500 technology to improve their nuclear weapon arsenal. So we've given them everything. That's not

00:24:36.820 altruism, it's stupidity. I'm just saying that we have, for the most part, have set up a system which 1.00

00:24:40.840 actually worked to keep the world neutral, and the Chinese are doing everything they can to undermine 1.00

00:24:44.880 that.

00:24:45.140 Yeah, and I think there's also a great danger in the thinking of the foreign policy establishment

00:24:54.180 that somehow they still have the same power, position, leverage, and role that they possessed

00:25:01.280 in 1991 as the Soviet Union collapsed, the Cold War ended, patting themselves on the back for what was

00:25:11.060 really a failure of the system, the Marxist system, the communist system of the Soviet Union.

00:25:20.260 What is interesting right now is your point, to your point about the currencies, the reserve currency,

00:25:30.200 and the role of the dollar in this economy. The fact of the matter is we don't have very bright people

00:25:37.760 managing this economy. We don't have any association between political strategies,

00:25:45.260 geopolitical strategies, national strategies in this country, and economic policies,

00:25:52.480 and if you will, strategies as well. There is, I have not heard one economic leader in this country.

00:25:58.100 I'm talking about bankers, I'm talking about the permanent bureaucracy, whomever,

00:26:03.000 or certainly academia is basically a silent group of institutions now because they have no

00:26:08.920 social critics or forward thinkers, it seems, emanating from any discipline of the social

00:26:15.220 sciences. So I don't know how we judge what is happening here because we really are, as we watch

00:26:22.900 these other power centers, as you were laying out, be constructed and the axis of China and Russia

00:26:30.120 be bolstered. The United States is divided and becoming more so. The divide between the elites

00:26:41.340 and the people, as a populist, I can say these things, the elites and the rest of America,

00:26:49.820 the hollowing out of our most important institutions. And I mean in that business and academia.

00:26:59.160 We are not seeing a great renaissance of intellectual energy and innovation. We are right now living on

00:27:08.800 the inertia of what was the, what looks to be right now, the peak point in American ingenuity,

00:27:18.340 innovation, and construction of a powerhouse economically.

00:27:24.760 Yes, Lou, you're absolutely right about that. You know, just take, for instance, the guy who's now

00:27:30.600 sitting in the Oval Office. He thought that he could spend trillions and trillions of dollars that

00:27:35.680 we don't have actually borrowing from the rest of the world and that it would not have any impact on

00:27:42.700 prices. And then you have this big run-up inflation and Biden's bank regulators who are worried about

00:27:48.920 climate change rules that the banks are following, didn't even think about the diminution in the bond

00:27:55.240 values because of inflation. You know, this is, this is, this is third grade economics. This is not

00:28:02.180 even economics 101. Any, any third grader can tell you this makes no sense whatsoever. And yet you have

00:28:09.260 the elites, as you say, they are not talking about this. If we want to talk about intellectual

00:28:15.520 advance in America, the last one we had was America first. And that was the work of you and

00:28:23.280 someone named Donald John Trump, who actually thought this situation wasn't working, had to be

00:28:30.380 changed. And, and clearly, you know, you have a Biden who's repudiated those views, but I believe that

00:28:36.560 in 2024, the American people are going to sit up and say, this ain't working. We got to go back to

00:28:43.040 something that does work. And I think we're going to see a change in this country. And it's a change

00:28:48.160 that you've been leading Lou. So thank you so much. Well, thank you for the credit, which, you know,

00:28:53.880 I, I deserve a whole, whole and entirely, of course, thank you. But the fact is I'm going to give a little

00:29:01.580 credit to president Trump, if I may, out of just all modesty in terms of America first and make America

00:29:09.120 great. He has been a president, the likes of which we haven't seen, I really believe still,

00:29:13.980 because of this president, we have a chance for this to be the Trump century and not that of Xi

00:29:18.680 Jinping or Vladimir Putin. I want to go to your point, Tony, again, on, on, on the finances of it

00:29:26.500 all, the global finances of it all. We're looking at Honduras, we're looking at Kenya, Brazil,

00:29:31.900 Turkey in one way or another, stepping back from the dollar, embracing the Chinese rather than 1.00

00:29:38.380 in the instance, for example, Honduras, turning its back on Taiwan, reaching toward Beijing.

00:29:46.440 This is seems to be the attitude across most of this hemisphere. And many people are not paying

00:29:52.780 attention to the fact that in this hemisphere, which once was moving decidedly democratically,

00:29:58.180 is now moved decidedly authoritarian and communist in point of fact. We are not taking care of business

00:30:08.660 on any continent in any direction. We don't even know what the hell the Canadians are doing, 1.00

00:30:13.700 let alone what is happening in Africa, what is happening in the Middle East. We have been out 0.93

00:30:20.100 our foreign policy team in this administration. I won't give all of the credit or blame to Biden,

00:30:27.340 because I think he's sufficiently impaired that he doesn't even know what we're talking about.

00:30:31.920 But the reality is this team is they just simply seem to be out of touch. They don't seem to be

00:30:38.920 interested in getting the idea of thinking about shuttle diplomacy. I mean, these people won't even

00:30:47.200 think about simply stepping off the curb to find out what's going on, let alone shuttle diplomacy. What

00:30:53.660 is wrong with this innervated administration that leaves borders wide open, does business with the 0.83

00:31:00.700 cartels openly, and no one, no leading, no leader from any quarter of American society or the economy

00:31:09.120 says a word.

00:31:10.680 To circle the square root of what Gordon just said about you and President Trump,

00:31:15.340 that's the key. You and President Trump recognize the link between economic success and national

00:31:20.140 security. No other leader speaks in those terms. No other leader do I know. And look, I've dealt with

00:31:27.220 you a long time, sir. I respect you. And I appreciate the fact that you think these things through and

00:31:31.860 speak clearly on it. And that's what we lack now. We don't have someone who can link these things

00:31:36.640 together and say everything is connected. And everything, as Gordon just said, is something

00:31:42.300 we're not paying attention to. The pandemic, no response adequate regarding the fact that China 1.00

00:31:47.000 was responsible for it, that we funded it, and nothing's going to be done at this point. The idea

00:31:52.360 that somehow fentanyl is acceptable. It's a weapon of mass destruction being ferried through Latin 1.00

00:31:59.020 America into our countries. The Chinese have invested in soft power. Liu, they bought the best politicians 0.97

00:32:04.480 on the planet over and over in all these third world countries, and they bought Joe Biden, too.

00:32:08.820 So they've made a wide series of investments with their money. And then to the dollar. Look, every time

00:32:14.760 you see our Treasury Secretary stand up and basically print money, that destroys the prestige of the

00:32:21.400 dollar and weakens the actual economic value of what every American holds. The idea that your 401k,

00:32:27.880 my 401k has been diminished in power and value because of the government deciding to spend money

00:32:33.600 because of the crises they create. People watch that besides the Americans. Unfortunately,

00:32:38.480 American people don't see the damage being done to their own economic interests. And that's where I

00:32:42.580 think I really hope you and President Trump can help educate people on how dangerous the situation is

00:32:50.340 regarding the complete lack of understanding how these things are all linked in the world stage and

00:32:56.440 how we must focus on economic success. And that must be linked to our national security.

00:33:00.780 Well said. And let me let me reach toward the end of this interview. And when I say we always give

00:33:11.060 our guests, as you gentlemen know, the last word. So I'm going to if you would, Gordon, let's let's

00:33:17.560 begin with your concluding thoughts, then yours, Tony. And I want to just say to both of you, thanks so much

00:33:23.200 for being with us and offering your your insights and and sharing your knowledge.

00:33:29.480 Well, thank you, Lou. And I think the most important thing is that

00:33:32.760 Biden and the American elites have got to recognize that the world is fundamentally changing.

00:33:39.480 It's becoming a hostile place. China and Russia are not competitors. They're even worse than 0.94

00:33:46.420 adversaries. They are enemies. Xi Jinping talks about trying to impose China's imperial era system,

00:33:52.840 where Chinese emperors believe that they not only had the mandate of heaven to rule Tien Xia

00:33:58.300 all under heaven, but that heaven actually compelled them to do so. And since 2017, Chinese officials have

00:34:06.020 been talking about the moon and Mars as sovereign Chinese territory. So we got to recognize the

00:34:11.040 fundamental nature of the challenge to the United States, to our values that the Chinese Communist 1.00

00:34:16.740 Party views the U.S. as an existential threat, not because of anything we say or do, but because

00:34:23.400 of who we are and our values. And so we have to know that this is the fight of our lifetimes and

00:34:30.120 that China is not going to give us a second chance. Tony. Yeah, Lou. I was on the Trump transition team

00:34:38.480 back in 2016. And one of the one of my contacts was General Milley, Mark Milley. He was the then

00:34:48.540 chief of staff of the army. We sat in his office and he lectured me on the need to understand that

00:34:54.740 based on his reading of Chinese doctrine and speaking to Chinese generals, that their objective,

00:35:01.120 that is the Chinese have the military objective of dominating the Pacific Rim.

00:35:05.360 That's what he said to me. And I have no doubt that that's what the Chinese told him, 0.95

00:35:11.040 that that is what they've said within their doctrine and their intention. That is something

00:35:15.120 that to me is indisputable. And yet somehow, because we have Joe Biden as president, Mark Milley seems to

00:35:22.520 have lost his interest in what is clearly a threat. As Gordon said, these are enemies.

00:35:29.300 They've said there are enemies. They are just patient. They're not going to do a blitzkrieg

00:35:33.840 and upend everything if they think they can use economic power, fifth generation warfare is what 0.99

00:35:40.020 I call it, as a means of influencing us and trying to defeat us before we have to go to war. But 0.62

00:35:44.720 it's no doubt that the military, the Pentagon understands what's coming. What I find unacceptable,

00:35:50.920 and I think Gordon would share this with me, is the fact that we have the arrogance of the momentum

00:35:57.160 of the system somehow believing those in charge of it, believing that somehow the momentum of our

00:36:02.660 past success is going to get us into the future. It's not. And I think that's what's most dangerous

00:36:07.560 is people right now in these positions of power and authority are completely oblivious to the danger

00:36:13.420 which we now face. And that's what I hope we can change in 2024.

00:36:17.160 Well, that danger is intensifying, it seems, with every passing week. And we thank you very much,

00:36:26.340 gentlemen, for being with us here on The Great America Show to contemplate what, for some,

00:36:31.600 I hope none of them in the Pentagon, to contemplate what is the unthinkable, and that is conflict

00:36:38.340 on a global scale with the major powers, because that does seem to be the subtext of what is emanating

00:36:46.280 from both capitalists, Moscow and Beijing. Gordon Chang, Tony Schaefer, Great Americans both,

00:36:53.280 that's all for us today. We hope you have a great weekend. Please join us here Monday when our guest

00:36:58.580 will be former NSA intelligence analyst and whistleblower Russ Tice. We'll continue our weekly

00:37:05.480 discussion with Russ, a discussion you don't want to miss. Till then, thanks, God bless you, and God bless America.

The Great America Show - April 21, 2023

FEEBLE U.S. LEADERSHIP HAS ALLOWED CHINA AND RUSSIA TO UNDERMINE WESTERN DOMINANCE OF THE GLOBAL ECONOMIC SYSTEM

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