The Great America Show - FR. FRANK PAVONE SAYS THE CATHOLIC CHURCH IS IN UPHEAVAL OVER THE CONFLICT BETWEEN PRO-LIFE AND PRO-ABORTION

00:00:00.000 Hello, everybody. I'm Lou Dobbs, and Merry Christmas, everybody. Happy holidays. Happy New

00:00:05.140 Year. Welcome to The Great America Show, and it is great to have you with us. Hope you didn't miss

00:00:10.540 the festivities at the White House when Ukraine's Zelensky went there to meet with America's Biden,

00:00:16.800 both comedians of a sort, and both have very expensive tastes. Biden, of course, spending

00:00:22.280 trillions of dollars like it wasn't his money. But wait, it isn't his money. It's our money.

00:00:28.260 It's taxpayer money, and that would be amusing if you and I weren't the ones paying taxes.

00:00:34.800 And Biden's given Zelensky $110 billion to fight Putin. $110 billion. And Zelensky doesn't just

00:00:43.500 ask Biden for money. He demands that money, and lots of it. You'd think Zelensky had some dark,

00:00:50.380 dark dirt on Biden to talk that way. And Biden, well, he pays up. So there you are,

00:00:56.660 again, with our money. Donald Trump Jr. calls Zelensky a, quote, ungrateful international

00:01:03.040 welfare queen. Humor, they say, is built on truth. And wow, the Marxist left went berserk

00:01:10.220 on Don Jr. They even researched the expression welfare queen and tied it to the great Ronald

00:01:16.300 Reagan, which in left land is sure to agitate the Marxist darlings into an elevated level of 0.97

00:01:22.820 derangement. And deranged they were. And get ready for a whopper of a storm, folks. The White House

00:01:29.540 telling 26 governors the impending super blizzard called a bomb cyclone that's about to cross much of

00:01:36.820 the country could become life-threatening. The president saying, pick up, the president saying

00:01:42.680 helpfully that it's, quote, not like a snow day. No, Mr. President, it certainly doesn't sound like it.

00:01:49.200 To be frank, when Biden understates things, it makes me a little nervous. So be careful if you

00:01:55.020 have to travel. It sounds like it could be a mess on the roads and in the air through Christmas.

00:02:00.380 We're now about a week and a half from the Republicans taking over the House of Representatives.

00:02:05.360 Still uncertain who will be Speaker of the House, but I'm absolutely certain if the outcome is the

00:02:10.960 status quo, unreformed, and the same old blather from the same old GOP, we'll be in for lean times

00:02:18.760 indeed. There's just too much corruption, too much cronyism, too little original thought and energy

00:02:25.200 in the grand old party leadership to successfully defend the republic, truth, justice, and our

00:02:32.380 American way of life. No hyperbole, just the reality of an existential moment in our history

00:02:38.180 in the here and now. And joining us today, a great patriot and also an important, very important voice

00:02:46.520 for the right-to-life movement in America and indeed around the world. Our guest today is Father Frank

00:02:53.460 Pavone. He's just been defrocked by the Vatican for what they called, quote, persistent disobedience,

00:03:00.960 as he is, in point of fact, supporting church doctrine and following the sanctity of life

00:03:07.620 preachings of the gospel. Father, I just want to say thanks so much for being with us.

00:03:13.680 And I have to say, at the outset, Merry Christmas!

00:03:18.880 Merry Christmas, Lou! It's a pleasure to be with you.

00:03:22.060 And this season is in rich, some might say even dark contrast, to all the events that are taking

00:03:31.760 place in Washington, D.C., or indeed in Rome. We're a troubled world, and we're a troubled nation.

00:03:41.200 And I'd like to move, if we may, to your troubles, and that is effectively the sanctioning

00:03:48.700 by the pope. Explain to us what all of that means.

00:03:54.520 It means there's a cancel culture in the church. It means that just like we see in our government,

00:04:00.960 attacks launched against President Trump, for example, by the weaponizing of procedures

00:04:07.820 and institutions that otherwise have a legitimate purpose, but are being used against political

00:04:13.580 enemies. This is happening also within the Catholic Church. We see that the battle between pro-life and

00:04:22.480 pro-abortion is also within the church. And this is what is the bigger picture. Sometimes people are

00:04:30.220 seeing this story, oh, the pope has said I'm dismissed for the priesthood. Okay, but that's

00:04:35.480 not just a story about me. This is the symptom of a problem that a lot of Catholics and other 1.00

00:04:41.940 Christians and other citizens find it really hard to get their minds around, because they presume 0.99

00:04:46.940 the church must be united. And my group, Priests for Life, the most common question, Lou, that I get

00:04:52.940 is, well, isn't every priest for life? And my response is, well, we just helped them to say so.

00:04:57.440 So even within the church, there is this tension, and that's what my particular case now is bringing

00:05:04.000 to light more and more. Indeed it is. And the right to life is, to me, a hallmark of the Catholic

00:05:15.580 religion, a hallmark of the teachings of the church for centuries. And almost in stealth,

00:05:27.500 the church, the leadership of the church has moved away from those teachings, and to the point where

00:05:35.180 you, because you are pro-life and speak out as such, which is within the belief system of the church,

00:05:45.280 it boggles a mind of, I'm a Christian, but not a Catholic. I can't comprehend that kind of dissonance

00:05:55.500 in a structure that is as old, a traditional, and just, one would think, vibrant with discussion

00:06:05.300 on issues, rather than wanting to stultify or utterly suppress thinking like yours.

00:06:13.700 Well, let me try to clarify it a little bit. First of all, what has just happened with this

00:06:18.680 notification from the Vatican is the result of our 21 years, where we've had to, I've been doing the

00:06:25.240 ministry full-time for 30 years, but for the last 21, I've had to actually fight within the Catholic 0.72

00:06:30.780 church for the right to keep doing it. And what is causing this? Not so much a direct denial of the

00:06:38.620 teaching, but it's the politics of it. Priests for Life has become the largest and most influential

00:06:45.300 pro-life group within the Catholic community, and the bishops feel, some bishops feel threatened by

00:06:50.660 that. Oh, they're not controlling, you know, what we're doing, what we're saying, even though

00:06:55.480 everything we're saying and doing is in line with the church, they're not in control. They're not in

00:06:59.640 control of our funding, which just comes from ordinary donors. They're not in control of our

00:07:05.220 messaging. And so some of them are, and what they're really uncomfortable about is this. Okay, so we know

00:07:10.140 the church's teaching on abortion is clear, but then I come along and I say, well, wait a minute,

00:07:14.340 we've got now a president who claims to be Catholic, we've got a speaker of the house who

00:07:19.560 claims to be Catholic, and no two people in America are doing more to make sure that more 0.99

00:07:23.440 babies get killed than those two. Aren't we in the church supposed to be more vocal about this?

00:07:30.640 It seems to me when the church steps up and challenges people like that, that's not the church

00:07:36.160 being political, that's the church being the church. And a lot of Catholics will rise up, and not 0.93

00:07:41.740 just Catholics, but Christians across the body of Christ. They will rise up when they hear me say

00:07:46.080 that, and they will say, amen, this is exactly the kind of leadership we need. And that, Lou, is

00:07:51.920 getting some of the bishops very, very nervous, because they're allied with Democrats. And this is

00:07:59.100 part of the problem that I'm running up against.

00:08:02.620 And have been running up against for better than two decades, we learned. You essentially, I was going

00:08:10.080 to say essentially, you were defrocked by the Vatican's belief that you were in, quote-unquote,

00:08:17.340 persistent disobedience. So as an outsider looking into the church, I ask, well, wait a minute,

00:08:25.840 the church is pro-life. Abortion is a sin, is it not? 0.99

00:08:31.340 It sure is.

00:08:33.700 So who is disobeying whom here?

00:08:37.600 Yeah, well, let me give you an example of this. The only time that the bishops can identify

00:08:43.560 me having not just carried out exactly what they've asked me to do, because I have done so as part of

00:08:50.300 the life of a priest, you know, you obey your bishop, is when they have tried, without reason,

00:08:56.940 without explanation, without justification, they've tried to get me to stop doing this pro-life work.

00:09:03.360 Now, here's, to add to the cognitive dissonance here, we're working in union with the pope.

00:09:10.440 What I mean is, Priests for Life is actually, on a very practical level, assisting Pope Francis'

00:09:17.300 mission to the United Nations when the United Nations deals with abortion. Priests for Life is 0.99

00:09:22.780 like right in there with them, assisting the Holy See mission. We are assisting the Secretary of State

00:09:28.900 at the Vatican. We just, a few days ago, finished helping to organize a conference at which the

00:09:35.680 Secretary of State spoke of Catholic, non-governmental organizations. It's like, we run the largest

00:09:42.220 ministry in the church for healing after abortion, a key priority of Pope Francis. And I've talked with

00:09:48.400 Pope Francis four or five times, personally, and he's encouraged my work. So like, how in the world

00:09:54.740 now does he issue a decree saying you can't even be a priest? It's a bundle of contradictions. So it

00:10:01.120 doesn't so much show them against me, as it shows them against themselves. There's a serious division

00:10:08.200 among the cardinals, among the bishops, about how are we going to deal with this issue of abortion.

00:10:15.920 And this is what, they can't seem to get their own story straight.

00:10:20.160 Well, there's a lot of confusion here. And most of the confusion I have, I will speak just in turn,

00:10:26.260 let's leave this at the secular level, me speaking as a professional communicator,

00:10:32.400 the Vatican is very confusing. The Pope is confusing. And if you're in persistent disobedience

00:10:41.420 for obeying your beliefs and that of the preachings of the church, I find the disobedience to be

00:10:50.700 systemic within the church itself, and in particular, the Vatican.

00:10:55.900 Well, I'm going to give an example here that's really going to, well, it's going to surprise

00:11:01.020 some people, it's going to put this whole problem in perspective. It's my bishop who has been

00:11:05.240 disobedient. And I may give you the example of what I'm saying. Back about a decade ago, he

00:11:12.020 said to me, I was in the midst of, as many of our viewers know, traveling around, I make four or five

00:11:19.880 trips a week on this pro-life mission across America, been doing it for 30 years. And he

00:11:25.720 abruptly says publicly, you've got to come back to the diocese of Amarillo. I want you back here

00:11:31.300 for a period of prayer and reflection. So I have concerns, you know. Okay, so I obeyed, I went there,

00:11:38.380 right? And I appealed, however, to the Vatican. I said, listen, there's no, I haven't done anything

00:11:43.860 wrong. There's no reason to restrict my ministry, but the bishop has restricted my ministry. Well,

00:11:48.960 a few months went by, Lou, ultimately the Vatican ruled in my favor. And they said to the bishop,

00:11:54.020 let Fr. Frank do his pro-life work, as we're discussing right now. It's good work, it's the

00:11:57.840 work of the church, it's saving lives, it's healing wounds. You know what the bishop said to me? He

00:12:02.880 said, the Vatican told me I could not restore you to your pro-life work. But the bishop, they told me

00:12:10.660 that I was restored to my pro-life work. He said, no, no, no, this particular archbishop told me no.

00:12:15.380 So I flew to Rome to ask that archbishop one question. Did you say I couldn't do this work?

00:12:20.860 And you know what he told me? He said, no, I did not say you couldn't do it. I told your bishop to

00:12:24.940 be generous in giving you permission to do this work. And now I get accused of disobedience. It's

00:12:30.040 the bishop who wasn't following the instructions of the Vatican. And I mean, this is just, again,

00:12:35.840 I've been dealing with this. I consider this an abuse of authority. I respect authority. I don't

00:12:41.740 respect the abuse of authority. And we're just simply trying to save lives and heal minds and

00:12:47.540 hearts and elect pro-life candidates. But this is kind of a good example of what I've been dealing

00:12:53.160 with. When the Supreme Court overturned Roe v. Wade and sent the issue of abortion to the states,

00:13:02.880 for each state to make that political decision about what their laws would be, what they would

00:13:08.500 permit, what they would not, that is fundamental to our federalist system of government. And it marks

00:13:16.420 such an advance against the tyranny of relativism in law and in our politics and our society in the

00:13:27.420 United States. Yes. At the same time, the Bible says it does not permit abortion. It just does not.

00:13:37.160 And to hear the church say it's persistent disobedience on your part, when in point of fact,

00:13:44.820 there is something afoot within the Vatican that makes no sense at all. When an archbishop is telling

00:13:51.940 a bishop to do something and that bishop is the one who is being disobedient, there's a mess. And when

00:14:00.400 the church itself can't acknowledge that it's following the scripture of the Holy Bible,

00:14:09.420 the church has to be in upheaval. It's in upheaval. I can't tell you how many messages I've been getting

00:14:17.680 these days from distraught Catholics and evangelicals, Protestants, and, Lou, from atheists.

00:14:26.560 Some of our audience might be familiar with this new group, the Progressive Anti-Abortion Uprising,

00:14:33.480 a bunch of left-leaning feminists, Democrats, atheists, agnostics, LGBTQ. But these are friends of 1.00

00:14:44.180 mine. These are allies of mine. These are colleagues of mine. They've been in my office in strategy

00:14:49.860 meetings. And they're giving me more support than some of these bishops are. It is truly,

00:14:55.560 in some ways, if you take the tragedy out of the whole thing, it's truly amusing. But that's the

00:15:01.880 thing about the pro-life movement. And this is one of the reasons we've come to the point where Roe v.

00:15:05.220 Wade has been reversed. Because this is a movement that is not called together by the Pope. It's not

00:15:10.760 called together by any religious leader. It's not called together by any political leader,

00:15:15.180 even the best that we've had. And we have had the best in President Trump in terms of so many things,

00:15:21.100 but including pro-life. And yet the pro-life movement does not arise from the edict of a

00:15:26.160 leader. It arises from our very humanity. People sitting around their kitchen table, around their

00:15:31.200 living room, realizing and talking about the fact that babies are being killed, and responding to the

00:15:36.580 basic human instinct, we have to protect our children. And then responding to the basic

00:15:40.860 Christian instinct, that whatever we do to the least of our brothers, we do to Christ,

00:15:45.220 this is the movement. Now, this is why the movement is so diverse, because it's based on

00:15:49.740 something so fundamental and common as our humanity. And this is why the movement can't be stopped.

00:15:55.620 It does not start by a religious leader, and it can't be stopped by a religious leader. So when

00:16:00.700 something like this happens, they take one of the most visible pro-life leaders and say,

00:16:05.400 you know, you can't be a priest, they are creating such a scandal and such a disillusionment. But

00:16:12.200 that's not going to stop the people from supporting the kind of work we're doing, being

00:16:15.780 involved in the pro-life movement. And so this is the moment at which we are right now. And I hope that

00:16:20.120 the reaction that has been generated here, and that I see only as growing, will make some of these

00:16:28.360 leaders think twice about what's happened. Well, you are also confronting the Council of Bishops,

00:16:35.280 the Catholic Charities, that are immensely political. And I'm not talking about merely

00:16:42.200 in discussion. We're talking about some of the most effective and active arms of the Church

00:16:49.900 in those two organizations aligned against our laws and our national security and sovereignty because

00:17:00.060 they support a wide open border. They support the cartels, in point of fact, because they are the ones

00:17:08.540 who are now in control of the border in large measure because of many of the activities of the

00:17:17.420 NGOs, the Catholic Charities, the National Council of Bishops, who are supportive of illegal immigration 1.00

00:17:26.240 in direct contravention of American law and direct contravention of our Constitution and the

00:17:32.640 constitutional responsibilities of our political leaders. I mean, this gets inordinately complex.

00:17:38.000 And most people can't even begin to comprehend the huge, the mammoth, massive involvement of the

00:17:46.500 Church in that issue of that southern border. Now, there are other forces at work and just as

00:17:51.440 powerful, but it's extraordinary what the Church has done here as well, isn't it?

00:17:55.740 And you know, Lou, it's also, besides everything you just said in contradiction to the American

00:18:00.660 Constitution and laws, it's also in contradiction to the Catholic Catechism. Because if we look in the

00:18:06.000 catechism at the section that deals with immigration, it's not simply an assertion, oh, these are our

00:18:12.120 brothers and sisters, we have to welcome them. No, it's an assertion that those who seek to come into

00:18:19.000 another country have to respect its values and traditions and have to obey its laws. That section

00:18:26.980 on immigration and the catechism likewise affirms that the duty of the welcoming country is limited. It's common

00:18:36.300 sense that it's limited, because they first and foremost, that nation has to take care of the people

00:18:42.100 already within its borders, and then have a system of welcoming people that makes sense for the citizens who are

00:18:50.880 already there and for the ones that want to come, become citizens, that you can't give what you don't

00:18:58.240 have. You have to do this in a way that makes sense, and therefore that is orderly and is limited,

00:19:06.000 frankly, is limited. You can't be everything to everybody. So those within the Church and those

00:19:11.400 who use religious language, Lou, to cover open border philosophies, you know, let's just dress it up in

00:19:19.200 religious language, and people will be persuaded, oh, they're all our brothers and sisters, let's

00:19:23.180 welcome them. No, it's not that simple, even according to the catechism.

00:19:29.480 It is, as you say, not that simple. When we are watching all the dissent folding, right now we're

00:19:37.120 watching the largest gatherings of illegal immigrants in northern Mexico preparing to cross our borders when

00:19:44.780 the so-called Title 42 is rescinded by President Biden if the Supreme Court does not intervene,

00:19:51.600 and I'm actually beginning to become somewhat optimistic that they just might, and some rationality

00:19:57.720 might actually appear in judicial proceedings in this country. But we're watching a country that is,

00:20:05.760 in my opinion, in an existential moment of our history. And one of the worst moments,

00:20:12.840 of course, is always in that description. It would be the here and now, and we're at the here and now.

00:20:19.680 Yeah.

00:20:19.860 I truly believe that we have forces at work. The Marxist Dems run the Democratic Party.

00:20:28.360 The Marxist Dems are the masters of this puppet president. We are watching the deep state and the

00:20:34.740 Marxist Dems take control of the Department of Justice. The FBI, we're witnessing it. Of course,

00:20:40.940 they don't want us to believe our lying eyes as we witness all of this and read all of this. But

00:20:47.340 nowhere is there, has there been, in recent history certainly, a more clear-cut case of evil versus

00:20:56.400 good. And so there is, in all of this, that blessing, which is more Americans now understand

00:21:04.840 that the forces of evil are arrayed against this great nation. Your thoughts?

00:21:10.400 Yeah. You know, one of the reasons that, I mean, we did much better in the midterms than

00:21:16.600 might meet the eye. And, you know, as you know, you analyze it a little bit and you see that

00:21:21.600 the momentum is on our side. But the reason we didn't do even better, as so many had predicted,

00:21:28.300 is that not enough citizens have, it hasn't gotten bad enough yet for enough of the citizens.

00:21:34.120 And unfortunately, it's going to get worse. And we have to hope that those who are putting these

00:21:39.940 people, these Democrats into power, will realize that once it hits home a little bit more than it

00:21:45.520 is so far, that they realize the problems they're bringing upon themselves by electing these people

00:21:50.640 who are causing the problems. And in that context, why and how should the church be neutral when,

00:21:57.800 as you accurately say, we're dealing with good and evil? We're no longer dealing with

00:22:03.620 ordinary political divisions. There was a time in our American history where, you know,

00:22:07.920 the differences between the Republicans and Democrats were, well, you know, we're all pursuing

00:22:11.520 the same goal. We've got the same principles. We believe in freedom. We believe in America.

00:22:16.460 We just have different ideas of how to get there. Okay, well, have a debate. And, you know,

00:22:20.640 trial and error, and you try a policy, it doesn't work, you can change the policy.

00:22:24.620 But now it's not that. It's not just a debate about different policies. This is a conflict over

00:22:31.480 fundamental principles. Such a difference between those two things. Policies, yes. Well, how do we

00:22:37.600 reduce crime? Well, I have this idea, you have that idea. But now it's like at the level of principle,

00:22:44.100 it's like, well, should we reduce crime? Is crime really a bad thing? You know, how do we advance

00:22:48.600 freedom? Well, now it's at the issue of, well, do we even believe in freedom? How do we protect

00:22:53.520 America? Do we even want to protect America? So the difference is on the level of principles,

00:22:58.820 of course, most fundamental of which is the issue I'm dealing with, are we going to protect human

00:23:03.960 life? Because that right, if that right isn't secure, you can't have any of the other rights.

00:23:08.100 And for the church, there's an argument to be made that when it comes to political discrepancies

00:23:15.440 or affiliations per se, yes, the church is neutral. The church has a religious mission,

00:23:21.700 not a political one. We give witness to the kingdom of God, not a political party. And our platform is

00:23:27.500 not the Democrat or Republican platform. It's the platform of Jesus Christ and his gospel. Fair enough.

00:23:32.800 But what if a political party is directly attacking that gospel, denying the freedom of the church,

00:23:41.380 denying the role of God in public life, attacking human life? You can't be neutral anymore. And I

00:23:48.160 think, Lou, that this is part of what the church is wrestling with and somewhat reflected, you know,

00:23:57.300 on a small scale, in my particular case that I'm facing right now. The church is wrestling with this.

00:24:05.260 How, when a political party is so directly attacking the principles of the church,

00:24:13.000 do we remain neutral? How do we remain neutral? Or how do we maintain our own identity while

00:24:19.180 maintaining our friendships within the party that has gone astray?

00:24:22.920 Yeah. As I said, I'm a Christian, I'm a Protestant, and I am one of those people who want,

00:24:31.720 I want religion in the public square. I want it mightily. And it's one of the things I cheered,

00:24:37.920 one of the many things I cheered about President Trump is he returned. People, many people just do

00:24:43.300 not, I mean, I know you're aware, but he played an instrumental role in bringing the church back to the

00:24:51.140 public square, much to the discomfort of the left and to the, to atheists and to, you know, the Marxist

00:24:58.820 left, which are by definition, atheists. Right. And they are the enemy. This is not just a fifth 0.97

00:25:06.420 column within the United States that we're talking about. This is the march of Marxism into American

00:25:14.660 society as we never dreamed possible. Not even 10 years ago, we would have said that it's impossible

00:25:21.140 that this would, this would occur. It's here. The threat is now the danger is present. And, you know,

00:25:29.680 I just go ahead, please. You're what you're saying here is reminding me of something Marco Rubio said

00:25:36.540 not long ago in a speech. He said, look, this is a battle between good and evil. And it's also a battle

00:25:41.560 between common sense and insanity. And what this, this, this left is, is, is, is displaying today

00:25:50.640 really is insanity. You know, I make a point in my, in my talks that why is it today that we can't say

00:25:57.700 a man is a man or a woman is a woman? Maybe it's because for 50 years, we've been saying a baby's not 0.76

00:26:03.820 a baby. When we brought portion on demand into America and pretended that we didn't know if that

00:26:10.460 was a baby, that was the break with reality. That was the break with biology. People say, oh,

00:26:15.480 well, you know, if you're a man, that that's, that's genetics. It's biological truth. Yes,

00:26:20.420 it is. It's just as much biological truth as that the baby in the womb is a baby right from

00:26:25.380 conception. And it's like, oh no, if we can pretend that that's not true, then saying a man is not a

00:26:32.240 man or a woman is not a woman or whatever you are, whatever you choose to be is the same error as

00:26:38.200 that's a baby. Only if you choose to accept it. And, and this is, we've got to stop breaking

00:26:43.780 with reality because after a while, um, well, the only solution, uh, Lou, is that you hit up against

00:26:49.580 the brick wall. Uh, I believe in the dead end rule. If you go down a dead end road and you don't look at

00:26:54.520 this, you don't pay attention to the signs that say it's a dead end, you will soon learn by personal

00:26:59.040 experience that it's a dead end. Hopefully you won't fall off a cliff, but if you survive, you turn around,

00:27:04.700 you walk the other way, and then you become the living sign that that's not the right way to go.

00:27:11.400 Now we're seeing that with abortion. We have the silent no more campaign where those who've actually

00:27:16.380 done it are coming back saying, Hey, that hurt. That was bad. We're going to see this more and

00:27:21.640 more with the transgender. We already see examples of it, of course, but the gay lifestyle, LGBTQ and

00:27:27.080 all this stuff, it's going to start. It is hurting people really bad. Give it a few more years,

00:27:33.420 give it a decade or two, and there's going to be a massive, massive pain from hitting up against

00:27:39.900 that brick wall, brick wall of human nature, brick wall of just the truth that is written into our

00:27:45.380 human nature as the scriptures tell us. So, um, that's, um, uh, the, the sooner we, we all realize

00:27:52.660 that the better off we'll be. I think that's a wonderful point. And I, I had not considered that.

00:27:58.400 I, I, the idea that we could deny, uh, science, uh, in describing life, particularly in, as it begins

00:28:07.840 in the womb, uh, if we could pretend that that embryo is not a baby, uh, is not, uh, with, with the first

00:28:16.680 spark of life living, uh, we can, uh, there is nothing we can't, uh, wish away, uh, disassociate

00:28:24.460 with, uh, or, or deny. I think that's a wonderful point. And I, and it just, it, it, it cuts very

00:28:31.880 close to the bone. So it has to be, uh, I think absolutely true. Uh, I, I think it's interesting

00:28:38.960 that we wanted to, our, our Marxist leaders wanted us to believe in the science, uh, when,

00:28:45.060 when COVID was, uh, raging through the society, uh, but then they denied the science that showed

00:28:52.220 that what they were doing was ineffective and was not what they had promised. Uh, they do so

00:28:58.120 when it comes to the right to life, uh, and being, uh, anti-abortion in this country. They try to change

00:29:06.900 the language as they always do. Uh, if you can change the language, you can change the thought, 0.99

00:29:11.900 you change the thought, and you change the position. Uh, I, I, I really have enjoyed talking

00:29:17.220 with you. I, I just, you're a fascinating fellow and I wish you all the very best. Uh, what are your

00:29:25.360 immediate plans? Uh, well, we are, in terms of my situation, you know, what the Pope does, the Pope

00:29:31.200 can undo. And, uh, we're, we're asking Pope Francis to just reconsider reinstating my, my priestly,

00:29:38.260 uh, faculties, but that aside, our plans now are, we're working, as you said, with the abortion issue

00:29:44.760 in the States. Now priests for life is, uh, is, is, is just mobilizing people in every one of the

00:29:50.320 States. We invite everybody to get involved with our work at end abortion.us. And, and we've got,

00:29:55.840 we've got great plans for us to see in 2023, more pro-life laws than ever compassionate laws,

00:30:02.940 helping both the baby and that mom and dad. Uh, and we just look forward to, uh, a lot of great

00:30:08.120 progress in the new year. Father, if I may, we always give our guests the last word. Uh, I'm

00:30:14.660 wondering in the spirit of the season, we could ask you, uh, to share with us, uh, your, your Christmas

00:30:21.260 message. Yes. Uh, Christmas really is, uh, at the heart of our system of government because in the

00:30:30.760 pagan governments, uh, law came from the mouth of the King and the input, and they didn't have any

00:30:38.040 appeal against it. Um, Christ came at Christmas and it's not just the birth of the baby in the manger.

00:30:44.780 It's the birth of the baby in us. We become sons and daughters of God. And if we're sons and daughters

00:30:50.320 of God, our voice matters. And because our voice matters, our vote matters. And we have a

00:30:55.640 representative form of government now where the sovereignty, and this is the greatness of America,

00:31:00.360 the sovereignty resides in the people. We were the first ones to say, Hey, forget about sovereignty

00:31:05.860 in the King it's in the people. And then we will consent to give individuals certain powers in

00:31:12.460 government. This really is rooted in Christmas. This really is rooted in the coming of the child who

00:31:18.260 makes us children of God. So Merry Christmas to everyone. And let's live out that new life that

00:31:23.560 Christ gives us by living out our citizenship more ardently than, uh, than ever before.

00:31:31.180 A wonderful message indeed. Father, we thank you very much for being with us here. Uh, we wish you a

00:31:36.940 Merry Christmas. We wish you a success and victory in all that, uh, all the challenges you're facing right

00:31:44.180 now. We appreciate everything you're doing for this great country as well. Thank you, Father.

00:31:49.520 Thanks Lou. Thank you. God bless you. Father, Frank Pavone. Thanks for being with us. Thank you

00:31:55.100 everybody for listening in. And I wish you a Merry Christmas. Please follow me on Twitter and truth

00:32:00.940 social at Lou Dobbs. That's at Lou Dobbs on Twitter and truth social. Our guest Monday is Senator Marsha

00:32:08.840 Blackburn. We'll be talking about her work to have the U S military abandoned those mandated 0.99

00:32:16.300 vaccinations for our troops. One of the important contributions of a Senator who makes a real

00:32:23.060 difference in Washington, DC. That's Marsha Blackburn. Please join us Monday till then. God bless you

00:32:29.320 and may God bless America. Merry Christmas.

The Great America Show - December 23, 2022

FR. FRANK PAVONE SAYS THE CATHOLIC CHURCH IS IN UPHEAVAL OVER THE CONFLICT BETWEEN PRO-LIFE AND PRO-ABORTION

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