Gordon Chang, Author of Plan Red: China's Project to Destroy America, joins me to talk about China's hacking of the U.S. Treasury Department and Janet Yellen's defense of China, and why China is a threat to us all.
00:08:49.860I mean, you talk about the police stations.
00:08:51.940Yes, I'm happy the FBI closed the one in Chinatown in New York.
00:08:56.160But according to New York Post and Daily Caller reporting, there are seven to nine other police stations that China operates across our country.
00:10:02.340And we have not had President Biden talk to the American people about this.
00:10:07.880The answer to your question is, when do we wake up?
00:10:10.560Unfortunately, it's when China kills a lot of American servicemen and women.
00:10:17.280So the 1.2 million Americans that the Chinese killed, the CCP killed, Xi Jinping killed, I guess wasn't enough for a wake-up call for our U.S. leaders, for our government, for our Congresses to act.
00:10:35.020Some people say, oh, it wasn't as many.
00:10:38.000Any number above zero is unacceptable because this was a deliberate plan.
00:10:43.880We don't know how COVID got out into the Chinese population, probably a lab leak from the Wuhan Institute of Virology.
00:10:51.600But, John, we do know one thing, that once this disease got out into central China, Xi Jinping deliberately spread it beyond his borders.
00:10:59.080For at least five weeks and probably longer, he lied about transmissibility of the disease, telling us that it was not contagious.
00:11:07.680And then while he was locking down his own country, yes, lockdowns are controversial, but by locking down his own country, he was telling the world he thought that was an effective way to stop disease.
00:11:17.840So, while this guy was locking down his own country, he was pressuring others, including the United States, to take passengers from China without restrictions.
00:11:27.440That's how this disease spread and became a global pandemic.
00:11:38.600If you look at the Genocide Convention of 1948, the definition of genocide, Xi Jinping killing foreigners meets the definition of a genocide.
00:11:50.540And we have not had the political will to declare that.
00:11:56.000So, the way I look at it is this, Gordon.
00:11:58.280We're going to call it genocide because that's what I believe it is.
00:12:18.520They may not be good at making things that last long and work, appliances, electronics, whatever you want to call it.
00:12:25.980But Xi Jinping and his CCP are extremely smart and they're very calculated.
00:12:31.900I don't think, especially in China, where everything is under government control.
00:12:37.320Every aspect of that country, every aspect of that private sector, whether it be Apple, whether it be Tesla, whether it be any sort of Hisense, TCL, everything is under government regulation under the government's eye.
00:12:51.140So you can't sit here, and I'm not saying you, but I'm saying generally speaking, you can't sit here and tell me Xi Jinping and the CCP didn't know what was going on in the Wuhan lab of virology.
00:13:01.420He didn't know that they were working on a bioweapon that came out.
00:13:05.200And then if you just look at the construction around how the things came out, you had people here in America telling us, well, maybe it came from North Carolina.
00:13:11.520Maybe it came, it's, I think the proof is in the pudding, the way everything happened, the deceptiveness of it all.
00:13:20.400There's not a doubt in my mind that thing came out of the lab and it came out of the lab on purpose.
00:13:24.660And it was created as an experiment to see how many people we can kill.
00:13:28.640And we're going to talk about the other one now that's maybe coming out of China, but I want to get your reaction on that first, Gordon.
00:13:33.760Oh, well, first of all, yes, we know that the Wuhan Institute of Virology was involved in gain-of-function research on coronaviruses.
00:13:42.560And we know this because there have been scientific papers published about what was happening at Wuhan.
00:13:49.620They talked about their coronavirus gain-of-function research.
00:13:55.160We know that the lab was not following safety protocols.
00:13:59.140There was a State Department investigative team there, and we know from other reporting that that was the case.
00:14:07.800We know from the makeup of SARS-CoV-2, the pathogen that causes this disease, that it was almost certainly manipulated.
00:14:20.120And this is an issue for our scientific community.
00:14:22.860They have been trying to make the case that this was a zoonotic, in other words, a natural transfer from bats in basically Yunnan province, which is in the south of China, which was transmitted by an intermediary mammal to bats 1,000 miles away in Wuhan.
00:14:43.080And yet our scientists keep on saying that that is the case.
00:14:46.640But we know that the circumstantial evidence points like 99.99% to an accidental lab leak from the Wuhan Institute of Virology.
00:14:58.000And there's that 100% we know that once this disease got out into the Chinese public, 100%, John, 100% that they spread this beyond China's borders.
00:15:11.020If you're saying that's the case, and it accidentally spread, but then they intentionally spread it afterwards, where's your beyond a reasonable doubt that it wasn't released on purpose?
00:16:32.180It's the last quarter century with the Belt and Road Initiative and the mass deceptiveness that this country has done to us and to the rest of the world.
00:16:40.240And the rest of the world lets them get away with it.
00:16:43.280We're the greatest country in the world.
00:16:44.420And I'm not saying we should be dropping bombs over there and sending troops on the ground, but to let them get away with what they've gotten away with, it just doesn't sit right with me.
00:16:53.960And we continue to do business with them.
00:16:56.220We continue to let them own Elon Musk and his manufacturing and the batteries for his car.
00:17:02.100We let them own Tim Cook and Apple and these cell phones that we use.
00:17:06.880Who knows what's in these cell phones that, you know, that we get sent over here from China.
00:17:10.760I ordered a brand new Apple computer, Gordon.
00:17:12.780It didn't come from wherever the hell they say it comes from, Palo Alto, California or wherever.
00:18:09.740You know, regardless of everything else, we know that China is using the profits from trade and they're using the proceeds from investment to build their military, which is configured to kill Americans.
00:18:23.980So this is not only strategically wrong, it is morally wrong.
00:18:29.000And we need a president who will sever those ties because our lives of Americans, the life of a single American, not to mention tens of thousands of Americans that we lose each year is more precious than the profits of our companies.
00:18:44.660We can reduplicate those profits in other countries.
00:19:00.300Get it on Amazon.com, wherever you guys get your books.
00:19:02.660But Gordon, from what you're saying, China's in a very vulnerable position right now.
00:19:07.420And when we return, I want to get your take on why are we not kicking the dog while they're down?
00:19:13.100I think they deserve to be kicked harder than than anything that's ever been kicked before after laying out for the last 15 minutes.
00:19:19.880All the things that they've done to us just in the last four years, not going back 25 years, like I said before, the Belt and Road Initiative, biggest, probably one of the biggest scams in history.
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00:21:37.860And before I answer your question, let's remember, you know, President Trump at the end of his term and during the campaign talked about reparations from China.
00:21:50.880And for a very simple reason, you know, even if you are willing to ignore all that's going on in the past, and by no means we should, got to remember that Chinese technicians in their laboratories are working on what they call specific ethnic genetic attacks.
00:22:07.760Those are attacks by pathogens that will leave the Chinese immune and sicken and kill everybody else.
00:22:13.620Because Xi Jinping now realizes, he has to realize, he knows that he deliberately spread this disease beyond China's borders.
00:22:22.820He knows he's killed 7 million foreigners.
00:22:26.160He knows that there's been no cost imposed on China.
00:22:55.680We can cut off investment, technical cooperation.
00:22:58.500These are things that we need to do to impose those costs on China so that he doesn't release another disease in addition to everything else.
00:23:06.280You know, on your question, with Biden, because Biden, president right now, at least in name, there's two things.
00:23:19.760We know that his family took a lot of money from China in circumstances that scream corruption.
00:23:30.140But the other point is, it may not be the entire explanation.
00:23:34.620And that is, remember, Robert Gates, who was defense secretary at the end of George W. Bush's administration and the beginning of Barack Obama's, famously wrote in his 2014 memoir that Joe Biden has been wrong on nearly every foreign policy and national security matter of the past four decades.
00:23:52.540So whether we're talking about corruption or whether we're talking about someone who is just misguided, Biden has not imposed those costs on China.
00:24:01.780And he now leaves it to the incoming President Trump to do that.
00:24:25.840And, you know, like you say, he's released this on the world and all the genetic phenoms that they're working on right now in the lab to try to make themselves immune.
00:24:34.580We now find out the WHO, nonetheless, which I think is going to be one of Trump's hundred executive orders on day one to get the heck out of that place, because they're just I mean, they're owned by the CCP.
00:24:47.280Tedros Adhan was owned by the CCP and Xi Jinping during COVID.
00:24:54.880But the WHO told the Global Times, which is the CCP's, one of their propaganda state run outlets, that this new unusual surge in respiratory infections, cases at the Chinese hospitals, is unusual, but no emergency declarations have been issued and none yet, because it seems like it's just nothing.
00:25:16.960Gordon, this is the same storyline that we heard from COVID.
00:25:20.780It's non-transmissible, transmissible from human to human.
00:25:24.060It came from, we'd only go from animals to animals.
00:27:10.040Hopefully, this is not a replay of 2019.
00:27:14.620But whatever it is, we need, for any number of different reasons, including this one, to sever travel with China.
00:27:22.820We should not be having our planes going there or their planes coming here.
00:27:26.580We should be evacuating Americans out of China for any number of different reasons, including this one.
00:27:33.780This is just something that shows the failure of our policymakers to understand the threat from China.
00:27:41.140Yeah, I think you're absolutely right.
00:27:44.560You know, for a little bit of time after COVID-19, we sort of saw America and the rest of the world branching away from China when it came to making of things.
00:27:55.160You'd buy something it would now say made in Indonesia.
00:27:58.080Even for a short while, you'd buy something from Apple.
00:28:01.080And I forgot where it was made, but maybe Thailand or Bangladesh, whatever, where it was made.
00:29:01.080We might see some missiles come off, come up in the air, and come right back down on them if they're using their Chinese technology of cutting corners.
00:29:07.560But do you think we can see over the next four years of Donald Trump, these companies, him working with Tim Cook, him working with Elon Musk to get the heck out of China?
00:29:19.220I mean, I think there's no better revenge, even including military power, than pulling our manufacturing out of there.
00:29:31.100It'll cripple the people, which sucks to do to the people, but we need to be America first at the end of the day.
00:29:38.320Do you think Donald Trump, if there's anyone who can do it, I think it's him, but do you think he can do it to get these manufacturers finally out of there, get our pharmaceuticals out of there?
00:29:47.440Yeah, there's two ways that he can do that.
00:29:50.400First of all, during the campaign, he talked about tariffs on China.
00:29:53.520As we know, in his various conversations, especially with Fox Business, Maria Bartiromo, he said he's going to impose tariffs of more than 60% across the board on Chinese goods.
00:30:07.320And then, of course, he said that he would impose an additional 10% tariff on China for fentanyl.
00:30:19.040Second thing is just I hope that President Trump just enforces U.S. law, specifically the Tariff Act of 1930.
00:30:29.660Tariff Act of 1930 bars the importation into the United States of goods made with forced labor.
00:30:37.500All or virtually all of China's green products are made with forced labor, and many of China's other products are also made with forced labor.
00:30:57.120And by the way, that iPhone that you showed us a few moments ago, that is Apple.
00:31:04.540Apple has been known to use products, components from Lens Technology, a Chinese company.
00:31:10.920Lens Technology does use forced labor.
00:31:14.280So, you know, Apple has all sorts of labor problems in China, and forced labor is one of them.
00:31:22.200And that's forced labor of Uyghurs, by the way, a racial minority.
00:31:25.920So those two things, tariffs and just merely enforce the Tariff Act of 1930, we can stop a lot of this commerce into our country.
00:31:35.420We should not be enjoying the benefits of genocide.
00:31:39.460And in addition, when we buy products made under a genocidal program, which is forced labor of Uyghurs is, we're financing China's genocide.
00:32:24.400Most of them are, you know, things that we that we want to buy for luxuries.
00:32:28.580But whether it be TVs or cell phones or computers or things like that, I don't care about paying an extra two or three percent that these people cry is going to add on to the price of putting tariffs and getting it out of these countries.
00:32:43.120If it means that we are now independent of China.
00:32:47.180Like I said, we've experienced it over the course of the last four years, Gordon, with inflation through the roof on food, on bare necessities.
00:32:54.540You know, you often hear people bitching and moaning about Trump adding tariffs over on Germany and all these.
00:33:04.440It's going to be the guy who's buying the Mercedes Benz.
00:33:06.320Are we supposed to feel bad that he's going to pay an extra four percent to buy a Mercedes Benz, Gordon?
00:33:10.720You know, time and time again, the left, the mainstream media and the left, they want to scare you and say, well, by Trump using these tariffs.
00:33:20.780Well, we're going to get tariffs put back on us.
00:33:23.360So, Gordon, the two biggest things that we import or the three biggest things we import are computers, computer parts, petroleum and cars.
00:33:59.300If they want to play that game with us, if China wants to play that game with us, if Germany and the rest of Europe wants to play that game with us, that's fine.
00:34:07.180Because they're going to be the ones who are going to bear the brunt of it.
00:34:11.320You remember what happened with the cheese and wine over in Europe and them having to melt down on the tax of it.
00:35:36.880And if they want to make it so bad, there's going to be an equilibrium point, Gordon, where it won't make sense anymore if they want to do that to even buy from them.
00:35:45.580It would make sense to buy from South America, which I think is going to see a boost in manufacturing and things like that coming over the next four years if President Trump does go through with doing all these things to China.
00:36:00.180But if people need to get their heads out of the sand and realize it for what it is, if it does hit us on the purse at the end of the day, it'll all be better for all of us.
00:36:09.440But like you had said, I don't think it does in the first place because China needs us more than we need them.
00:36:14.720Who are they going to get to pick up all the stuff that we buy from them?
00:36:19.400There's no other country that imports like America.
00:36:23.320And, you know, other countries around the world are following our lead in imposing additional tariffs on China.
00:36:29.480And it's not just the developed world like the EU.
00:36:32.960It's also countries like Turkey and Indonesia and the quote unquote global south, as China likes to call it, because nobody wants to have the Chinese decimate their local industries.
00:36:42.980And so we are seeing across the world, northern hemisphere, southern hemisphere, global north, global south, countries are starting to impose costs on China and these tariffs.
00:37:14.940And every time I'm abroad, I say to myself, whether I'm in Asia, whether I'm in Europe, whether I'm down in the Caribbean, I can't wait to get home.
00:37:33.940He's the author of Plan Red, China's Project to Destroy America.
00:37:37.140Plan Red, China's Project to Destroy America.
00:37:39.200You can get it on Amazon, wherever you get your books.
00:37:42.180Gordon, when we come back, I wanted to wrap up this show with some things that have been going on and some comments from President Trump regarding Greenland, regarding the Panama Canal,
00:37:52.740and some of the work he's been doing to oust Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau.
00:37:57.400I also want to take up everything that's going on right now in South Korea.
00:38:00.960I think a lot of people don't really understand what's happening over there.
00:38:05.100And I think it's our duty to fill them in on just how crucial the times are in the Korean Peninsula.
00:38:11.260We're coming right back with Gordon Chang.
00:38:13.340Plan Red, China's Project to Destroy America.
00:39:29.220Get a copy for your friend and teach them a little bit about China and the deception of the Chinese.
00:39:34.720Gordon, I want to begin with here, Greenland.
00:39:37.380It's been on President Trump's mind, I think, for the last 10 years or so before he took office in 2016, wanting to acquire Greenland for the natural resources, for the geographical aspect of it.
00:39:53.460We're now finding out that the Kremlin spokesman, Dmitry Peskov, reminded President Trump-elect, who hopes to acquire Greenland, that Russia will protect its strategic interests in the Arctic region, saying, quote,
00:40:05.700The Arctic is a zone of our national interest and our strategic interests.
00:40:10.100We are interested in preserving the atmosphere of peace and stability in the Arctic zone.
00:40:14.440Is America about to become the next Ukraine?
00:40:24.820The other, Canada, the United States, and Denmark, by virtue of Greenland, and I believe Norway or Sweden.
00:40:35.140But the point is, Russia is not the only Arctic state.
00:40:38.640And so, yeah, we have our national interests in there as well.
00:40:42.480And President Trump's comments on Greenland, you know, bring back or should remind America's people that China and Russia are seeking to dominate the Arctic, try to drive out other Arctic states, and that we cannot allow this to occur.
00:41:01.120Yeah, Greenland being one of them, and what people don't realize is the strategic placement of Greenland.
00:41:11.820Greenland to Moscow is just about a six-hour trip on, if you were to fly, as the crow flies on a commercial plane.
00:41:18.080For a fighter jet, it's probably half that of time.
00:41:20.620So to get from there to, and what I've been saying to the people on this show, Gordon, as guests for the last few days since this news broke,
00:41:26.220if we go to war, it's going to be with probably one of three or four countries.
00:41:30.660It's going to be with China, it's going to be with Iran, or it's going to be with Russia.
00:41:36.520And going to, or it'll be with North Korea as the fourth.
00:41:40.500If we go to war with any of those countries, it's most likely involves Russia anyway, right?
00:41:45.960Russia as a proxy to China, Russia as a proxy to North Korea, Russia as a proxy to Iran,
00:44:31.380And I can't stand the thought of America being the world police.
00:44:34.460But the thought of it that resonates with other countries is enough for me to, you know, to get rid of that whole saying of America being the world police.
00:44:45.040Because it portrays safety on the world stage.
00:44:48.900It doesn't allow terrorist attacks like that to happen.
00:44:52.280It doesn't allow countries to be invaded because they know there's a thought that there can be a price to pay.
00:45:00.620I want to turn now to south of the border.
00:45:03.720It's another place that President Trump's got his eye on.
00:45:38.440It has so many commercial enterprises there that can be turned into military facilities.
00:45:44.280That was the comment of General Laura Richardson in 2022 when she actually flew over the canal zone, looked at the Chinese facilities and said they were dual use.
00:45:56.420There are a lot of different ways that China can do that.
00:45:59.380China is dominant in Panama in general.
00:46:02.140So, yeah, this is good for President Trump to highlight the issue.
00:46:08.660December 31st of 1999 was the day that we effectively turned over control of the canal to back to them, ending the lease.
00:46:17.060Why is it now taking, Gordon, why is it taking 25 years for a U.S. president to come to the conclusion?
00:46:24.260Now, a lot happened since 1999, and I mentioned before the Belt and Road Initiative, which was around that time under Bill Clinton.
00:46:33.480Why has it now taken 25 years for a president with a brain to come to the conclusion that China is a problem?
00:46:40.260China is now trying to dominate South America.
00:46:43.860This didn't just happen overnight, Gordon.
00:46:45.640It didn't happen in the last four years, and it didn't happen in the last eight years.
00:46:48.900It's been happening for the last quarter century.
00:46:51.500Why are our politicians, and by our politicians, I mean Donald J. Trump, the only people to wake up to the fact that China can dominate us at our own southern border?
00:47:28.400We shouldn't have, we shouldn't have allowed this, but it's important now for us to have that conversation about China in Latin America, not just the canal zone.
00:47:40.860And the Caribbean, and the Caribbean, Latin America and the Caribbean.
00:48:06.960You know, Gordon, it terrifies the hell out of me to think that north of our border, just eight hours north in a car to the border of Canada, that we can have the CCP knocking on our doors there.
00:48:29.700And then it also terrifies the hell out of me that we can go south of Key West, Florida, by 90 miles into Cuba, and we can have the CCP there.
00:48:37.020Or we can go 10 feet across the southern border in Texas or Arizona, and we can have the CCP there.
00:48:44.900It's like a game of, it's like a board game, a battleship, and all guns are pointed at America.
00:48:51.380Your take on Canada and the mistakes that Justin Trudeau has made that's now made Canada vulnerable to the CCP.
00:49:00.340Yeah, Canada is actually more influential in Ottawa than we are.
00:49:04.280And part of the reason for Justin Trudeau's political problems is that people have woken up in Canada about how dominant the CCP has been in electing candidates in Canada, and as well as influencing Justin Trudeau.
00:49:22.040So, and by the way, there's one other place, that's Bahamas, which is 90 miles east of Palm Beach, Florida.
00:49:32.060So, yeah, it is, as you say, it's in all directions.
00:49:36.840You know, I travel a bunch, Gordon, and I go down to the Caribbean a bunch, and I can't tell you how many times I get on a Wi-Fi, and it's Huawei.
00:49:47.540And I'll go with my friends, and they'll say, I'll say, what's the Wi-Fi?
00:49:50.820And they're saying, who we, or who's we?
00:49:54.240And I'm like, what the heck are you talking about?
00:49:55.820And then I look at it, and I go, oh, my goodness, it's Huawei.
00:50:26.640They're having some problems because, on the phone space, because China's, you know, preventing them from having apps that people around the world want.
00:51:12.900I can't even tell you I feel bad for Cisco because they probably didn't steal it.
00:51:16.420Cisco handed it over to them, as they do with everything else.
00:51:19.580Gordon, I want to wrap up with here, as we promised, give an update to the audience on South Korea for everyone who doesn't know what's going on there.
00:51:26.600There are President Yoon declaring martial law, then being forced out of office, which, when we spoke before the show, seems like a communist takeover.
00:51:37.140Can you give the audience a rundown on what exactly is happening right now in the Korean Peninsula and what it means for South Korea and maybe even North Korea and China?
00:52:20.000And the reason is that people are not focusing on the declaration of martial law.
00:52:24.520They're focusing on the overreach of the opposition Democratic Party of Korea called Minjoo.
00:52:30.400And they not only impeached President Yoon, they impeached his successor as acting president.
00:52:36.540And they're now threatening to impeach the successor to the successor.
00:52:41.880They, Minjoo, is pro-communist China, pro-North Korea, anti-Japan, anti-U.S.
00:52:48.940The previous Minjoo president wanted to abolish the country of South Korea, sort of merge it into North Korea.
00:52:56.460He was prevented by the Korean people from doing that.
00:52:59.760But the current leader of Minjoo is a more ruthless version.
00:53:03.920And so anything can happen, including South Korea becoming a communist state.
00:53:10.880Not the people of South Korea want it, but it is certainly possible because of the leadership of the opposition.
00:53:21.020You know, America set a dangerous precedent.
00:53:24.100And it wasn't just for America, Gordon, when they went after President Trump and they impeached him twice.
00:53:29.200When they went after him and convicted him of BS crimes last week, apparently becoming now a convicted felon in New York because they had to sentence him.
00:53:38.720But the good news is, in that case, now President Trump can start his appeals process, which I'm more than confident he'll be able to do with how tainted that jury was and how corrupt that judge was.
00:53:48.500That's a whole different story we could have.
00:54:36.820It's not the precedent they set for the future of America and the future going forward on retribution and the things that our politicians are now going to be held accountable for because of the precedent they sent.
00:54:48.320But they also set a dangerous precedent for Venezuela.
00:54:51.660We saw what happened when Maduro lost that election.
00:54:54.580A dangerous precedent for Brazil on what they've done down in Brazil.
00:54:58.480Well, they've now set a dangerous precedent for South Korea.
00:55:43.440Well, the good thing is that President Trump won on November 5th, and he showed the world and the American people that those tactics you talked about will not succeed.
00:55:57.720American democracy held, and we are looking forward to four years of a reasonable president.