The Great America Show - 'IF I’M IN DONALD TRUMP’S SHOES, I'M NOT SURE I CAN TRUST ANYTHING THE FBI DOES,' SAYS FORMER FBI OFFICIAL KEVIN BROCK

00:00:00.000 Hello, everybody, and welcome to The Great America Show.

00:00:03.280 I'm Lou Dobbs, and here we go.

00:00:05.860 Glad to have you with us.

00:00:07.020 The week is progressing about the same as usual.

00:00:09.760 President Biden's national security team has all but disappeared from sight.

00:00:14.820 Secretary of State Tony Blinken remains out of public view, as he has for three or four

00:00:20.140 months now.

00:00:21.240 The same is true for Biden's national security advisor, Jake Sullivan.

00:00:25.260 You know, the same guy who wrote the phony Russian disinformation letter.

00:00:30.000 Signed by 51 intelligence veterans who knew it was pure bull and a shield for Biden in

00:00:35.880 the final weeks of the 2020 campaign.

00:00:38.940 And President Biden has just sent Ukraine another bundle of American money, about $16 billion

00:00:44.260 of it.

00:00:45.540 And as Congresswoman Lauren Boebert says, there's no public accounting of all that taxpayer money,

00:00:51.420 none whatsoever that Biden is shipping out to Ukraine.

00:00:55.620 What is the total amount?

00:00:57.540 And what's it buying?

00:00:58.760 This is one of the craziest moments in our political history and getting crazier by the

00:01:04.500 day.

00:01:05.200 And it all starts with a Marxist-Dims takeover of our government and Joe Biden's puppet presidency.

00:01:12.060 And then there's our economy's descent into recession.

00:01:15.800 Don't forget, two consecutive quarters of contraction of our GDP, our economy, is the very definition

00:01:21.960 of recession.

00:01:23.200 And we were in recession in the first six months of this year.

00:01:26.700 That coupled with almost double-digit inflation, a nightmare for millions of Americans.

00:01:31.800 And the stock market is in bear market territory.

00:01:35.980 That is, stocks have fallen 20% and more from their highs.

00:01:40.300 If you've looked at your 401ks and mutual fund, you likely haven't been too pleased.

00:01:45.480 The stock market has lost almost $8 trillion in value.

00:01:50.220 Not good.

00:01:51.220 And here is President Joe Biden in January of this year.

00:01:56.680 The stock market, the last guy's measure of everything, is about 20% higher than it was when my predecessor

00:02:06.980 was there.

00:02:08.140 It has hit record after record after record on my watch.

00:02:11.540 Yes, this is the same guy who's driving inflation as well, with runaway federal spending, higher

00:02:18.460 energy prices, crushing businesses, large and small, with higher interest rates.

00:02:24.380 Biden's tearing up our economy.

00:02:26.900 But Senator Klobuchar says a vote for the Marxist-Dims in these upcoming midterm elections could stop 0.99

00:02:33.400 hurricanes, are you ready, from hitting Florida.

00:02:36.660 And two, you've got leaders in Congress, like Senator Schumer and Speaker Pelosi, as well

00:02:45.840 as there are Republicans that want to work with them, where we have been able to step

00:02:50.060 by step by step push these bills through.

00:02:53.200 And so, I think so many times people counted us out, but we want to make clear we've got

00:02:58.400 the backs of the American people.

00:03:00.020 And while we have clear disagreements, we don't want, if the Republicans take charge, a number

00:03:04.920 of them have been talking about an abortion ban.

00:03:07.060 You guys know that.

00:03:07.960 You featured on the show.

00:03:09.180 That's why we've got to win this midterm.

00:03:10.920 We just did something about climate change for the first time in decades.

00:03:14.860 That's why we've got to win this as that hurricane bears down on Florida.

00:03:18.760 We've got to win in the midterms.

00:03:20.440 We understand that.

00:03:22.060 But none of that has stopped us from deciding we're going to put our differences aside and

00:03:27.260 get some things done.

00:03:28.520 That is what that vote is today in the Rules Committee, where you're going to see a strong

00:03:32.960 bipartisan support, a very good hearing for changes to the Electoral Count Act.

00:03:38.140 The Marxist Dems have had complete control of the federal government for almost two years

00:03:43.560 now, and along comes Hurricane Ian.

00:03:47.300 Not great timing.

00:03:49.060 These Marxist Dems are dangerously indifferent to truth, and the destruction they visited on

00:03:54.580 the whole country seems to not bother them in the least.

00:03:58.220 They've done the same to our federal government.

00:04:00.380 But it's rife with corruption, the FBI and DOJ are simply slaves to the Marxist Dems who 0.80

00:04:06.440 control the Democrat Party and our puppet president, all aligned with the deep state and the mockingbird 0.60

00:04:13.320 national media.

00:04:14.980 And the public trust in the FBI is understandably withering.

00:04:19.000 And former FBI officials are all appalled at what we're witnessing.

00:04:23.460 To take up the public's distrust now of the FBI and DOJ, our guest today is Kevin Brock.

00:04:29.340 Kevin is a longtime veteran of the FBI, former assistant director for intelligence, deputy

00:04:35.340 director of the National Counterism Center, and now head of the New Street Global Solutions

00:04:40.500 firm.

00:04:41.600 Kevin, thanks for being with us here on The Great America Show.

00:04:45.140 First, your reaction to all the controversy around that special master assigned to be the

00:04:51.200 overseer of documents seized from President Trump's offices by the FBI in Mar-a-Lago.

00:04:57.280 Well, certainly, Lou, great to be with you.

00:05:00.620 Thanks for having me.

00:05:01.980 I think perhaps maybe Trump attorneys are now wondering if they, you know, be careful what

00:05:07.660 you wish for.

00:05:09.500 Special Master Deary seems to be taking this quite seriously, as he should.

00:05:15.280 There have been some allegations leveled back and forth about this search, which obviously

00:05:20.440 is highly controversial.

00:05:21.520 And I've commented on in the past, I think it was too wide in scope.

00:05:25.980 I think there's indications that the FBI seized more than what the warrant allowed them to

00:05:31.940 seize.

00:05:32.820 The Trump camp is understandably pushing back against that.

00:05:37.620 I don't think they're helping themselves when the former president makes statements such

00:05:42.300 as he believes the FBI may have planted evidence or forgot or, you know, didn't take their shoes

00:05:48.800 off in his bedroom.

00:05:50.080 That doesn't help him in the court of public opinion, probably.

00:05:54.700 Um, but the, the search itself invites enough questions to where I think it's a good thing

00:06:02.740 that the special master has been appointed.

00:06:05.060 I think he'll take it seriously enough to, to, uh, to address some of the concerns, um,

00:06:12.560 on the Trump side and, uh, and I, and that will, I hope, uh, help get to the bottom and get

00:06:20.460 some clarity around, uh, what a search that has essentially ripped this country apart politically.

00:06:28.220 It has, and the polls, uh, already, uh, country divided, but the polls are showing that Biden's

00:06:36.040 numbers are plummeting, uh, that the confidence of the American public and the FBI, uh, is at

00:06:41.840 levels I never dreamed we'd see a few years ago.

00:06:45.240 Yes.

00:06:45.980 Uh, it's, it's stunning stuff.

00:06:48.720 And then we see this special master, Deary, as you said, uh, it's, he, he seems like he

00:06:56.320 is fully on board with the justice department and absolutely against the, the Trump team.

00:07:03.620 He's, he asked the lawyers whether they believe the FBI lied about seized documents.

00:07:09.080 Uh, he's carrying out, if you will, uh, interrogatories here, uh, rather than trying to make a judgment

00:07:15.880 about the propriety of certain documents that were seized, it seems to me.

00:07:21.800 Yeah, they're very pointed questions.

00:07:23.900 Uh, and again, uh, there seems to be, uh, they seem to be zeroing in on the inventory of items

00:07:31.220 that were seized and this, of course, includes, it's been generally characterized as, you know,

00:07:38.820 11,000 documents, 1800 other items, um, classified materials, perhaps up to a hundred different

00:07:46.200 documents.

00:07:46.760 Um, and, and I think there's some question as to what was seized precisely the Trump team

00:07:57.040 and fairness wants to understand whether or not these things that were seized seem to

00:08:03.860 line up with that, which they believe they had in their possession.

00:08:06.920 That's given rise to the questions of whether there was other information, you know, put on

00:08:11.620 the inventory list that didn't exist.

00:08:13.480 All of that has to be sorted through.

00:08:15.960 And, um, the other thing, Lou, I'll say that I found fascinating was the special master

00:08:21.100 basically inviting the Trump attorneys to make their case ahead of any potential charges or

00:08:30.160 a trial that the president declassified these documents.

00:08:35.140 Uh, the attorneys, I think, understandably demurred on that.

00:08:38.300 The press made a bigger deal out of that as though they were, you know, they didn't believe

00:08:42.400 he had that authority.

00:08:43.380 I think it was more of a, um, litigation strategy that they didn't want to divulge the, their

00:08:49.380 best defense in all of this.

00:08:50.820 So it's a, it's fascinating the way it's playing out.

00:08:54.220 It is.

00:08:55.200 And I'm not sure it should be quite as fascinating as it is, Kevin.

00:08:59.840 It's, you're talking about discovery here.

00:09:02.800 These are, these are pre-discovery issues.

00:09:05.480 Uh, this special master is operating in the interest of the prosecutors so they can see

00:09:11.240 what the, uh, the legal strategies are of the Trump team.

00:09:15.280 That would be wonderful if every, if every defendant would have to do that.

00:09:19.500 Uh, but it's, it's, as I understand it, that's just not the law.

00:09:23.120 And to have a special master again, Deary, uh, saying, uh, you know, shut up or, or, or put

00:09:30.380 up, uh, prove your case, uh, and we, and giving what eight days to, to bring forward that case.

00:09:36.920 Uh, I I've never heard of that happening.

00:09:39.180 And, uh, in my career as a journalist, uh, how about you?

00:09:43.400 Yeah, I don't think any of us has seen anything like this quite play out.

00:09:47.960 Um, you know, to your point, Lou, there, the, the Trump team may be having some buyer's remorse

00:09:53.160 because obviously he was one of the, uh, special master nominees, uh, that they suggested, uh,

00:10:00.020 when he was appointed, uh, you know, now they're finding out that, that perhaps they're getting

00:10:06.320 harder questions that they anticipated, or, or maybe there's a perception that, uh, Deary

00:10:11.520 is, is advocating for one side over the other.

00:10:14.460 I'm not sure that's clear yet.

00:10:16.100 Um, but, um, he's definitely not messing around.

00:10:20.600 He's definitely holding attorneys, uh, feet to the fire.

00:10:24.580 Um, I, you know, we'll see whether or not there are similar questions being posed to the

00:10:32.880 DOJ attorneys that we don't have visibility into.

00:10:36.320 Um, so, you know, it's, but I agree with you.

00:10:40.500 This is, this is unprecedented.

00:10:42.320 It's, it's very interesting to watch.

00:10:44.300 And, you know, to your point, uh, about the issue of public opinion and his statements

00:10:50.440 about the FBI framing him, we've got to, I think in all fairness, we've got to remind

00:10:56.480 ourselves that president Trump has been the victim of FBI and DOJ frame ups from before

00:11:05.920 his president, before he was even elected president.

00:11:09.060 Uh, the Russian collusion, uh, hoax, uh, is, is, is there, uh, Michael Flynn was framed,

00:11:17.240 uh, two, three Oh two, uh, agents with three Oh twos that were altered.

00:11:22.760 I mean, this is, this is tough stuff and none of this is happening in a vacuum.

00:11:27.940 Is it, uh, we've had six years of persecution of this president.

00:11:32.620 And frankly, I can't imagine what the FBI would not consider doing, uh, to go after this

00:11:38.900 president, your thoughts.

00:11:40.260 And that, and that, and that saddens me to hear anybody say that you're, you are deeply

00:11:46.860 respected, obviously, and as a journalist and that, and you, but you're articulating a

00:11:51.780 perception that now has taken root in this country.

00:11:56.200 Uh, and when I say perception, it's a perception that's grounded a lot in reality, just the things

00:12:02.280 you listed off right there.

00:12:03.560 And I've commented extensively on this as well.

00:12:05.980 My whole motivation is to make sure that the FBI doesn't lose the trust of the American

00:12:11.680 people.

00:12:12.160 If that's lost their effectiveness as an agency, uh, and a force for good in this country is

00:12:17.560 eroded and that will damage our democracy.

00:12:20.160 I could not care less about individual executives inside the FBI acting in a way that they create

00:12:28.420 perceptions of malfeasance.

00:12:30.280 And, uh, and that's what happens starting back with the whole crossfire hurricane.

00:12:35.980 Uh, James Comey led team at FBI headquarters that, that first of all, opened up a case that

00:12:42.120 was not adequately legally predicated crossfire hurricane.

00:12:46.320 Secondly, ran with a discredited dossier paid for by Trump's political opposition.

00:12:53.580 That should have been a red flag enough for them to not even go near it, but yet they used

00:12:58.400 it, uh, largely by their own admission as basis for a FISA application to electronically surveil,

00:13:06.300 uh, Carter page.

00:13:08.220 Right.

00:13:08.740 And, and they lied to the court, uh, in, in doing that.

00:13:12.860 At least one FBI employee is obviously proven to have lied to the court and others misled.

00:13:18.160 But this is a travesty and, and, and you're exactly right.

00:13:23.300 If I'm in Donald Trump's shoes, I'm not sure I can trust anything that the FBI does.

00:13:30.460 Um, and, and he should be looking at everything very, very carefully and, and, and it's understandable

00:13:35.920 if he does.

00:13:37.100 I was just making the point that certain, certain statements that he makes, I don't think necessarily

00:13:44.680 accrue to his benefits, but I don't blame him for having the concerns.

00:13:49.180 He is the strongest president this country has had in memory.

00:13:53.680 And he is all the stance, in my opinion, between us and almost certain authoritarianism on the

00:14:01.280 part of the left.

00:14:02.180 We're watching it every day.

00:14:03.760 I, I wish it were anything, but what it is here, uh, you talk about the importance of

00:14:08.920 the FBI and the department of justice.

00:14:10.960 There's not a single person that I know of outside of the FBI and the DOJ who has committed

00:14:18.420 wrongdoing of all the investigations that they've opened and pursued of all of the charges they've

00:14:25.380 made.

00:14:26.400 I, the perpetrators turn out time after time, after time to be officials of the department

00:14:32.480 of justice, they turn out to be actually four consecutive directors of the FBI lying to the

00:14:37.640 American people and FBI agents, uh, as you well know, uh, FBI agents.

00:14:43.880 Now, it looks like that they're going to, I won't go this far.

00:14:47.860 It looks like there could be an accounting for agents, uh, who abused the power of the agency

00:14:53.960 and their authority, uh, and broke the law.

00:14:56.280 Uh, your thoughts.

00:14:58.440 Yeah, this is, uh, this is troubling on a number of fronts.

00:15:02.360 Uh, to your larger point, we had this country convulsed because of inappropriate and a misuse

00:15:10.940 of FBI authorities by James Comey and his team at headquarters, none of whom have been held

00:15:15.840 accountable.

00:15:16.240 In fact, they enjoy lucrative media contracts and book deals.

00:15:20.240 Um, lower level, you know, people, the Kevin clients miss the world, not to absolve him.

00:15:26.280 What he did was wrong.

00:15:27.560 Um, you know, uh, are being held accountable and, uh, and, and being examined for what they

00:15:34.740 did, but the leadership always seems to escape.

00:15:38.320 And this is, this is really, really troubling.

00:15:41.020 So you're, you're exactly right.

00:15:43.540 Um, but I think it even gets a little bit worse, Lou, if, if, if you look at what's happened

00:15:48.200 since the Russia collusion debacle was debunked and shown to be what it was, um, the perception

00:15:55.400 continues to this day that the FBI is acting on behalf of a politically motivated department

00:16:05.080 of justice led by Biden's attorney general, Merrick Garland in a, in a series of now well-known

00:16:13.840 incidents that lead the American people, or at least well, or half the country to believe

00:16:19.100 the American, that, uh, the FBI is pursuing the policies and political agendas of the Democrat

00:16:26.260 party over Republicans, high profile arrests, emphasis on certain, um, you know, favored

00:16:34.040 topics of criminality to the left and to the exclusion of, uh, or perceived exclusion of

00:16:43.000 adequate investigation into things like the Antifa riots or Hunter, Hunter Biden's laptop

00:16:48.160 or, uh, fire bombings of, of, uh, pro-life pregnancy centers.

00:16:53.700 There seems to be an imbalance and that perception that, that is now, I've never seen it before in

00:17:01.260 my professional career shortly in the FBI is, is a grave threat to this country.

00:17:07.700 Agent Tebow tried to, to bury the case, uh, Hunter Biden has more protectors and law enforcement,

00:17:15.220 uh, and the intelligence agencies than anyone would have dreamed.

00:17:19.340 We know 51 former, uh, and actually in current, uh, veterans of the intelligence agencies themselves

00:17:29.100 lied when they strongly implied, I'll put it that way and give them a break, uh, strongly

00:17:36.620 implied that Hunter Biden's laptop was a, uh, it was evidence of a Russian disinformation campaign

00:17:44.000 when they knew full well, it was a lie.

00:17:46.260 They shut down the public's right to know in this country, which I don't know of it ever happening before,

00:17:50.980 certainly not on this scale.

00:17:52.680 Uh, we, and here we are four years into a tax evasion case and still no action on Hunter Biden,

00:17:59.360 who is on video committing gun crimes.

00:18:02.280 He is kind of, uh, committing, uh, drug crimes, gun crimes, you name it.

00:18:08.200 Uh, it's, there's no one in this country.

00:18:11.860 They don't have to be lawyers.

00:18:13.160 They don't have to be FBI agents, uh, to understand that this is a, this is a moment in history

00:18:20.000 that we, we had no idea would ever come our way.

00:18:24.420 This is the stuff of, uh, of, uh, banana republics and totalitarian regimes in Eastern Europe. 0.58

00:18:31.640 It has nothing to do with anything in America's bedrock heritage.

00:18:35.860 Yeah, and you and I have been around long enough to recognize that inflection point

00:18:43.880 that we stand on right now.

00:18:46.000 You know, we, you know, politics, um, going back to the seventies, it was, um, it wasn't

00:18:53.760 as bitterly divided as it is right now.

00:18:55.820 It is deeply, deeply partisan.

00:18:57.600 And it is driven by two or three major, um, issues that, that leave this country.

00:19:04.320 And, um, and so we see things happening to where, uh, 51 former intelligence community

00:19:14.680 executives, many of whom I know worked with consider friends signed on to an absurd letter,

00:19:21.860 uh, written by Jake Sullivan to, um, to forestall campaign damage to Biden ahead of the election

00:19:30.140 in, in 2020, um, probably even more disturbing than them just signing the letter is the fact

00:19:38.200 none of them have modified their position or commented on that since, since then.

00:19:43.700 And since we have learned that what they stated was objectively untrue.

00:19:48.740 Objectively untrue.

00:19:51.740 And also the attorney general of the United States, William Barr.

00:19:55.780 He knew in that second presidential debate, the final debate of 2020, that former vice president

00:20:02.580 Joe Biden was lying through his teeth to the American people.

00:20:06.140 He knew it.

00:20:06.900 He acknowledges such.

00:20:09.200 And he chose not to intervene, uh, incited policies of the DOJ on intervening during election.

00:20:15.900 But what he did was to intervene with his silence, his acquiescence to what Joe Biden did, which

00:20:23.420 is lie to the American people about it being Russian disinformation to lie about his lack

00:20:32.520 of knowledge of Hunter Biden's business dealings with foreign companies and countries, uh, in

00:20:38.500 the, in the, uh, in the interest of Joe Biden and his family, it's, it is rotten corruption

00:20:46.020 at, and it's worst.

00:20:47.600 And we can't get our law enforcement agents, agencies that we depend upon to enforce the

00:20:53.400 law.

00:20:53.640 A law means nothing if it's not enforced.

00:20:55.520 And as you, as you said, there's only one party against whom the, the laws are being

00:21:01.940 enforced, uh, and that is the Republican party.

00:21:06.620 And in fact, they're not even laws, they're frauds and they are, uh, hoaxes.

00:21:12.600 Uh, it's, it's, it's just obscene to think where we are.

00:21:16.260 You bring up a very interesting point, um, and you're correct.

00:21:21.080 It is department of justice policy, not to take an, an overt investigative step or public

00:21:28.280 stance six or was it 90 days out from a major election.

00:21:33.900 Um, you'll notice the Mar-a-Lago search was done on that 90th day.

00:21:37.420 They just got it done that, uh, just in time, uh, to avoid that policy violation.

00:21:42.680 Um, yeah, uh, the attorney general is going to adhere to that policy, but 51 former intelligence

00:21:50.240 community, uh, executives aren't bound by that at all.

00:21:54.240 Um, I would, I would love to see 50 former law enforcement, federal law enforcement executives,

00:22:01.680 um, you know, write a letter expressing concern about the politicization of our criminal justice

00:22:10.080 system.

00:22:10.760 Uh, I think there's enough concern there to where people who have been in this arena,

00:22:18.340 uh, would be articulate, would be fair articulators of that concern.

00:22:23.660 Barr knew by the way, and I, and I neglected to say this, Biden knew, uh, almost a year before

00:22:31.180 those presidential debates about the Hunter Biden laptop.

00:22:35.320 He knew its contents and he knew, he knew, uh, that they were, they were not Russian, uh, disinformation yet.

00:22:44.900 Yet he persisted.

00:22:45.900 And interestingly, in September of 2020, he started talking to the media about his concerns

00:22:52.480 about the integrity of the election.

00:22:54.480 Uh, talking about how difficult it could be to assure the integrity of an election that

00:23:00.520 has this much mail in balloting twice as much as we had ever witnessed.

00:23:04.480 And it's interesting too, to see that, that twice as much mail in balloting in 2020, uh, you

00:23:10.520 would think it would have a very close, uh, correlation to the number of ballots that were

00:23:15.420 in dispute or question.

00:23:16.880 In fact, those questions and didn't dispute ballots dropped by 20%, even as the number

00:23:23.900 of ballots doubled, uh, it, it is, it is, uh, on its face, uh, assorted, uh, sickening affair.

00:23:34.140 Yeah, I think that that, that sore point in particular still festers, um, in, in America,

00:23:42.200 certainly with the people who, who voted for Donald Trump, I know there's a concern that

00:23:49.600 right after the election, it seemed very, it seemed, uh, that the conclusion that there

00:23:58.180 was no voter fraud was drawn very quickly without really looking at some of the probable

00:24:05.240 cause or indicators of probable cause that of some malfeasance.

00:24:09.560 Um, I'm not sure whether subsequent investigations have validated a theory of widespread, uh, election

00:24:19.100 fraud that, that could have changed the outcome of the election.

00:24:23.360 Um, and I'm not sure we're ever going to know that, but, um, there, we, we certainly got

00:24:28.960 a wake up call in this country, uh, you know, on the heels of the COVID lockdown as to what

00:24:35.480 kind of mischief is possible when, um, when voting becomes a little too easy.

00:24:43.100 So shall we say, and, uh, invite opportunities for, uh, manipulation.

00:24:48.460 So that's a concern that's still out there.

00:24:51.240 And, and I, and I think if power shifts, we're going to see a renewed focus on trying to understand

00:24:57.320 that.

00:24:57.620 Yeah.

00:24:58.180 I think to your point, I think the only way we ever know the truth is if, uh, we see

00:25:03.140 a sizable, sizable Republican victory in the midterm elections, particularly in the house,

00:25:09.540 uh, so that they can proceed.

00:25:12.360 It's as I, as I look at this from, you know, from the standpoint of history, there's nothing

00:25:18.060 that approaches it in all of American history.

00:25:20.340 Uh, we've had, uh, various instances of voter fraud, but we've never seen anything on this

00:25:26.920 scale at this level.

00:25:28.780 We do know, for example, that had, uh, according to the polling that if people had known that

00:25:35.680 Biden's laptop was not Russian disinformation, I believe the number is 13, perhaps as high

00:25:41.340 as 15% of those who voted for Biden would not have.

00:25:44.060 And of course that would give the margin of victory to Donald Trump.

00:25:47.940 Uh, and so we know that Barr changed history, no doubt about it.

00:25:53.620 Uh, we know that the FBI participated in that as they sent out agents, uh, to, if you will,

00:25:59.460 inform, if not intimidate, uh, big media, uh, big tech, uh, and social media to drop the

00:26:06.940 story that was published on the 14th of October by the New York post.

00:26:11.380 Uh, it's just a sad moment in our history.

00:26:14.820 And I don't know where this all will lead the country, but my hope is like, I'm sure it is

00:26:21.220 yours, that we will get a better understanding of what's required to right this many wrongs.

00:26:28.100 We're watching the, with that question, I think you would agree, but we're losing the public.

00:26:32.740 Our government is loose, has lost the public trust.

00:26:35.820 Uh, what is in your judgment, the future for the FBI, for the department of justice?

00:26:41.740 And I know that requires a lot of assumptions, but, uh, you're, I'd like to get your thoughts

00:26:46.220 given your experience and, uh, your history.

00:26:49.540 Yeah, thank you.

00:26:50.700 I have been giving this some thought and I think history actually might instruct us a little

00:26:55.700 bit on, on this point.

00:26:57.180 Um, but obviously there have been calls ranging from, you know, complete dissolution of the

00:27:03.260 FBI, let's disband it, let's do away with it. 0.92

00:27:05.580 It's, it's corrupted its core, as Senator Grassley said, it needs to be changed fundamentally.

00:27:11.420 You hear that from some politicians, but more from media pundits, uh, more lately, you've

00:27:17.420 heard speculation that perhaps some defunding of the FBI is in order.

00:27:21.820 Um, and, and then, and then others, maybe a little more moderated, look, we've got to

00:27:28.360 look at some reforms.

00:27:29.440 I think at minimum reforms are always a good thing or looking at reforms are always a good

00:27:35.940 thing.

00:27:36.160 That's a process in this country.

00:27:37.820 The last time it happened in a major way was following Watergate, uh, when they held the

00:27:43.320 church committee hearings back in the mid seventies.

00:27:46.420 And they realized that the executive branch in this country was able to exercise powers

00:27:53.300 to particularly electronically surveil people, uh, and, and monitor activities of, of individuals

00:27:59.840 in this country.

00:28:00.820 Ironically back there, more on, more on the left, the anti-war, the, uh, and the, um, and

00:28:06.760 the civil rights leaders.

00:28:07.780 Um, and so that, that, that kind of, uh, motivated Congress to act to, to reform and rein in the

00:28:17.940 powers of the executive branch and the FBI specifically, but not just the FBI, the CIA

00:28:22.180 as well, because they were concerned about sanctioned assassinations.

00:28:25.680 And so it, it, it, it generated a whole bunch of reforms for the FBI, most notably the institution

00:28:31.320 of the attorney general guidelines, which just real quickly give the FBI their, their

00:28:37.500 boundaries as to what's required before they can open up a case against, uh, an individual

00:28:42.980 in this country and what, what is required, uh, to be able to show before you can do that.

00:28:48.520 FBI welcomed that.

00:28:49.620 That was, these are great.

00:28:51.180 We understand what our, you know, where the lines are that we have need to color in, in,

00:28:54.980 in, uh, stay in between.

00:28:57.720 And so all of that was considered good and logical reform.

00:29:04.100 I think now that we have seen a pattern of abuses linked to using government authorities,

00:29:12.820 um, against political opponents, clearly motivated by political, uh, agendas there, that caused

00:29:23.440 some calls for some, uh, introspection as well.

00:29:27.000 And, and some adjustments to the attorney general guidelines that will allow greater oversight and

00:29:33.920 internal controls so that things can't happen like they did under James Comey, where they just

00:29:40.080 decide, you know what, we're going to open up a case against Trump campaign officials, even

00:29:44.300 though we don't have adequate reason, uh, a legal basis to do so.

00:29:48.300 And then move forward to a special counsel investigation that went on with another, almost

00:29:54.640 two years of FBI investigation, a special counsel investigation and produce no evidence

00:29:59.700 of wrongdoing whatsoever on the part of the president.

00:30:02.340 But again, raise lots of questions about the conduct of the FBI and the Department of

00:30:07.700 Justice.

00:30:08.380 I, I guess I, I would like you to know if you don't already, I've called for, uh, reform for

00:30:15.220 the Department of Justice and for the FBI, not its dissolution, uh, or simply eliminating

00:30:23.220 it, but taking out the national security division from the FBI.

00:30:27.980 It gives them far too much in the way of power that is too readily abused by any agency,

00:30:34.720 a point of fact.

00:30:35.980 Uh, and I think it's a divide that has to be restored.

00:30:38.800 Uh, there was a time we saw that on wall street, uh, there was a Chinese wall between, uh, investment

00:30:44.220 banking, retail banking, uh, there's just human nature is what it is.

00:30:49.980 And we have to have police, internal police within the FBI.

00:30:54.200 Michael Horowitz, we now know actually, uh, did not act to curtail wrongdoing on the part

00:31:01.380 of agents.

00:31:02.300 Uh, he was part of the problem instead of part of the solution as inspector general.

00:31:07.600 What do you think?

00:31:08.420 Well, I, I think that that's, um, you are, you're talking in ways that make, uh, logical

00:31:17.820 sense this, the need for reform is going to be acute.

00:31:21.300 I think, you know, the last time it was right after 9 11, when, uh, there was a pretty good 0.99

00:31:27.000 impetus, um, and in this, in this country motivation in Congress and through the, uh, the, uh, 9

00:31:34.460 11 commission to break out that national security, uh, responsibility from the FBI.

00:31:40.320 And they came within a whisker of actually doing that.

00:31:43.140 Um, there was a, uh, a promise by Robert Mueller at the time to create an intelligence directorate,

00:31:49.820 um, to, uh, more formalize the collection of intelligence that might help, um, you know,

00:31:58.320 interdict, uh, acts of terrorism before they happen.

00:32:02.280 And I was privileged enough to be the first assistant director of that directorate.

00:32:07.300 Um, I'm not sure it has fully lived up to its original vision and remit.

00:32:13.600 Um, there's probably still a work in progress.

00:32:16.640 I, I would balance the, the, um, the, the instinct to pull that out of the FBI by pointing out that

00:32:25.100 creating another domestic intelligence agency doesn't necessarily solve the problems we're talking about today.

00:32:32.160 I think there's some fundamental root, um, guidelines that have to be put in place no matter who holds that mission

00:32:39.500 to make sure that when there's issues of politics involved, political campaigns, uh, political positions in this country

00:32:50.320 that are held passionately, that any governmental investigation of those things, uh, are, are really

00:32:57.760 tightly controlled so that, that they, the American people have the assurance that any investigation

00:33:03.920 is going to be well justified.

00:33:06.060 Everybody would nod north and south and yep.

00:33:08.440 Yep.

00:33:08.920 Absolutely.

00:33:09.440 That should be investigated.

00:33:10.740 And then there's no dispute about that.

00:33:12.900 And I think we can get there.

00:33:13.960 I think we can implement those kinds of reforms.

00:33:16.980 Well, uh, I'm hopeful as you are.

00:33:19.680 I, I'm also, uh, this point, uh, very skeptical of what can be done, not simply because of the,

00:33:27.680 the, the organizational upheaval that has to be, uh, we have to go through, but because

00:33:34.300 of the politics, the politics of this thing are interesting to me because here we are with

00:33:40.360 Joe Biden, who is, I think it's fair to say, I want to ask you to comment on this, an impaired 1.00

00:33:45.480 president.

00:33:46.340 Uh, he is, uh, a puppet for the Marxist Dems who are driving the democratic party farther 0.58

00:33:51.540 and farther to the left.

00:33:53.120 What I find interesting in this politically is that despite that alignment with the CCP,

00:34:00.060 with the dictatorships all over the country and authoritarian forces, the FBI seems to have

00:34:07.020 lined up, uh, and done the bidding of the, the Marxist Dems.

00:34:12.020 Uh, and I think if we did not have that extant reality, we probably would have an FBI that

00:34:19.220 still had its storied reputation and the regard of the American people.

00:34:23.960 Your thoughts.

00:34:24.880 I agree.

00:34:25.920 Uh, it troubles me deeply as somebody who, you know, I gave 24 years of my adult life, my

00:34:31.080 personally, largely my professional life to the ideals of the FBI.

00:34:36.440 And I will say this, and I've said it before, the FBI is an ideal.

00:34:38.960 It's not an institution.

00:34:40.400 It's a bureaucracy.

00:34:41.320 It's made up of people, but the ideal of the FBI is a treasure and needs to be protected

00:34:48.720 at all costs.

00:34:50.200 And, um, and, and that perception, there's a, there's a widespread perception in this

00:34:56.260 country right now, uh, that, that has, that ideal has been damaged and the FBI needs to

00:35:03.720 understand that and take steps to fix it.

00:35:07.440 The leadership of the FBI passes different.

00:35:10.900 There's generations of leaders that pass through this institution.

00:35:13.760 It's one ideal.

00:35:14.840 It's different leaders.

00:35:15.720 Each leadership generation has a responsibility to protect that trust.

00:35:20.260 And insofar as they don't do that, then they are failing in their duties.

00:35:25.220 And right now we are seeing a cavalcade of investigative steps that lead reasonable people to believe

00:35:36.560 that one political agenda is being pursued against another using the powers of the department

00:35:42.100 of justice.

00:35:42.800 I think of Joe Biden, Joe Biden, you know, he's got, if he didn't have two of his children,

00:35:49.340 all of his political problems would go away.

00:35:51.000 Hunter Biden and his daughter with her, her diary, um, the, the, um, the American people

00:35:56.780 are, you watch things where the, the department of justice, you know, does an early morning

00:36:02.360 search of journalists who had access to actually Biden's diary.

00:36:07.940 They didn't steal it.

00:36:09.000 It was given to them.

00:36:10.500 They tried to return it and yet they still suffer a early morning search warrant to seize

00:36:17.360 a diary that is valued at most, probably $20 at Walmart.

00:36:23.300 It doesn't meet the guidelines for interstate transportation of stolen materials to be prosecuted

00:36:29.360 by any U S attorney in this country.

00:36:31.440 And yet here we are.

00:36:33.540 So these types of egregious oversteps by the department of justice, um, are, are troubling.

00:36:41.700 And insofar as the FBI goes along with that, uh, it damages the bureau ideal.

00:36:49.860 I think the bureau needs to step back.

00:36:52.260 They do have independence from department of justice.

00:36:55.240 It is well established and they can exercise that.

00:36:58.380 They do not have to go operate in lockstep with, with a department of justice that has,

00:37:03.840 uh, a specific agenda in mind.

00:37:06.860 To that point, the idea that we have seen so many of these SWAT team raids, uh, men and women

00:37:14.280 in full tactical gear at 6 AM, uh, rousting 70 year old, uh, people, uh, uh, men, their wives.

00:37:24.240 Uh, it's just astonishing to me that those FBI agents would allow themselves to be used

00:37:31.360 in that ugly and unlawful, in my judgment, unlawful way.

00:37:35.760 We now are hearing from 20 whistleblowers for the, for the house judiciary committee, the

00:37:40.940 Senate judiciary committee that in fact, that in fact, the FBI not only had a portal and

00:37:48.480 a Democrat law firm, but that they were, they were absolutely, uh, being told to inflate

00:37:57.280 the public image of domestic terrorists, if you will, uh, white supremacist, uh, supremacist

00:38:06.040 terrorism, which was an entire, uh, entirely fabricated notion on the part of the seventh

00:38:11.920 floor of the FBI.

00:38:14.640 Well, I'll modify that just a little bit.

00:38:17.300 Um, the, the emphasis on domestic violent extremists, as they call them, DVEs is a policy

00:38:24.320 agenda set by the Biden administration and the department of justice.

00:38:28.500 This frankly is not that unusual.

00:38:30.380 Each administration comes in, they'll have an emphasis on a crime problem that they want

00:38:34.380 to focus on.

00:38:36.240 Now, the Biden's folk, Biden administration's focus on domestic violent extremism is probably

00:38:41.140 a little more politically charged than what we've seen in the past, where administrations

00:38:45.240 will come in and say, Hey, we want to, we want to end gun violence or street gangs in

00:38:48.840 the inner cities.

00:38:49.700 We want to, you know, have an emphasis on drug trafficking, whatever it is.

00:38:53.760 Um, but each time that is done, it does set an agenda where the FBI is oversighted by

00:38:59.540 Congress to show, uh, and the, and the party in power to show, are they aligning resources

00:39:05.940 according to the administration's, uh, agenda?

00:39:08.960 Um, and that, that can have some legitimacy that said, to your point, the, it is never correct.

00:39:17.700 For the FBI to look for cases or inflate numbers and statistics to inflate agent resource,

00:39:27.060 our dedication to a certain crime problem artificially in order to satisfy, uh, an administration's

00:39:35.460 agenda or, or the Democrat party administration, uh, agenda in Congress, uh, that is never appropriate.

00:39:42.260 And there's always pressure to do that, but it always ends badly when that happens.

00:39:47.940 So, um, yeah, there's, there's, that's again, another straw that's on the pile of concern

00:39:54.660 among Americans that, that the authorities of the judicial system are being directed in

00:40:02.220 one direction at the expense of other, even more serious crime problems, uh, that exists,

00:40:08.480 uh, in the nation today.

00:40:10.280 Let me ask you as we're, as we're wrapping up here, are there Republican law firms that

00:40:18.640 have FBI portals in them?

00:40:21.880 I'm not deeply familiar with that story.

00:40:23.900 I did read something about it, Lou.

00:40:25.520 Um, uh, and I, I don't know if there is, so I'm not sure I can comment on it.

00:40:29.700 It does seem there could be an innocuous explanation for it.

00:40:34.000 I, it escapes me.

00:40:34.820 It's nothing I ever saw or encountered when I was in the FBI.

00:40:37.820 Yeah.

00:40:38.060 Uh, and we're talking about the FBI portal, uh, at the law firm of, uh, Perkins Coy, which

00:40:44.460 was the Democrat, which is the Democratic National Committee, uh, legal firm of choice, uh, where

00:40:51.100 Michael Sussman, uh, who was charged with lying to the FBI, where he played a prominent role

00:40:57.300 and for which there's never been any accountability.

00:40:59.760 And I've been waiting on the national media, Kevin, I've been waiting on the national media

00:41:04.460 to do some digging into this and find those Republican portals and wonder how many other

00:41:09.960 portals are in Democratic law firms around the country.

00:41:12.920 Uh, let me, let me do this.

00:41:15.540 Uh, we always, uh, give our guests the last word, your concluding thoughts.

00:41:20.440 And, uh, if you will, sir, uh, that time is now.

00:41:23.880 All righty.

00:41:25.500 Well, thank you.

00:41:26.860 Uh, when you, great questions, you're, you're surrounding many issues that are troubling Americans

00:41:32.880 today and, uh, and need to be addressed.

00:41:36.040 Uh, the FBI has to take this on head on and take steps to restore that, that trust, that

00:41:43.180 lost trust or damaged trust, um, that, that they, they do right now.

00:41:48.060 I, I still remain optimistic.

00:41:49.820 I have great hopes.

00:41:51.860 I, I talked to a lot of FBI, uh, both retired FBI agents and agents that are still inside

00:41:58.720 the Bureau.

00:41:59.140 I think we can reassure your, um, your listeners that, uh, all the things that we see as troubling

00:42:06.860 are also being perceived that way within that FBI family and community, uh, largely, uh,

00:42:13.800 I'd say the vast majority, uh, are concerned.

00:42:16.500 Um, and so, you know, nobody wants to, everybody goes into the FBI career with a lot of pride

00:42:24.840 and understandably and justifiably so.

00:42:27.040 So, and, uh, and, uh, and FBI agents want to be thought of as, as patriots who are doing,

00:42:33.340 uh, the right thing to bring justice where it needs to be brought in this country.

00:42:37.680 And for the large part, 98% of the time, that's exactly what happens.

00:42:42.840 Um, but you can see how the, the misuse by a few can create so much havoc.

00:42:51.040 And, uh, I pray that that can be corrected.

00:42:55.100 Amen.

00:42:56.260 Kevin Brock, long time, uh, top official of the, uh, of the FBI.

00:43:02.180 We appreciate your time.

00:43:03.640 Uh, we thank you for sharing your thoughts and, uh, I hope you'll come back soon as we

00:43:09.300 continue to cover this critically important issue for the nation.

00:43:13.440 It's my privilege.

00:43:14.960 Thanks, Lou.

00:43:15.860 Thanks so much.

00:43:16.440 God bless.

00:43:17.320 God bless you.

00:43:18.940 Thanks everybody for joining us today.

00:43:20.980 Tomorrow, leading GOP pollster and strategist for the McLaughlin Group on what voters are

00:43:26.280 saying about this upcoming midterm election, about 40 days away now, and which party they

00:43:33.000 really prefer.

00:43:34.300 Please join us.

00:43:35.200 Till then, God bless you and God bless America.

The Great America Show - September 28, 2022

'IF I’M IN DONALD TRUMP’S SHOES, I'M NOT SURE I CAN TRUST ANYTHING THE FBI DOES,' SAYS FORMER FBI OFFICIAL KEVIN BROCK

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