The Great America Show - September 28, 2022


'IF I’M IN DONALD TRUMP’S SHOES, I'M NOT SURE I CAN TRUST ANYTHING THE FBI DOES,' SAYS FORMER FBI OFFICIAL KEVIN BROCK


Episode Stats

Length

43 minutes

Words per Minute

151.58643

Word Count

6,617

Sentence Count

327

Misogynist Sentences

1

Hate Speech Sentences

7


Summary

Former Director of the National Counterterrorism Center at the New York FBI, Kevin Brock, joins us on The Great America Show with Lou Dobbs to discuss the latest in the ongoing scandal surrounding the Deep State and the ongoing investigation by the Department of Justice into possible links between President Trump and Russia.


Transcript

00:00:00.000 Hello, everybody, and welcome to The Great America Show.
00:00:03.280 I'm Lou Dobbs, and here we go.
00:00:05.860 Glad to have you with us.
00:00:07.020 The week is progressing about the same as usual.
00:00:09.760 President Biden's national security team has all but disappeared from sight.
00:00:14.820 Secretary of State Tony Blinken remains out of public view, as he has for three or four
00:00:20.140 months now.
00:00:21.240 The same is true for Biden's national security advisor, Jake Sullivan.
00:00:25.260 You know, the same guy who wrote the phony Russian disinformation letter.
00:00:30.000 Signed by 51 intelligence veterans who knew it was pure bull and a shield for Biden in
00:00:35.880 the final weeks of the 2020 campaign.
00:00:38.940 And President Biden has just sent Ukraine another bundle of American money, about $16 billion
00:00:44.260 of it.
00:00:45.540 And as Congresswoman Lauren Boebert says, there's no public accounting of all that taxpayer money,
00:00:51.420 none whatsoever that Biden is shipping out to Ukraine.
00:00:55.620 What is the total amount?
00:00:57.540 And what's it buying?
00:00:58.760 This is one of the craziest moments in our political history and getting crazier by the
00:01:04.500 day.
00:01:05.200 And it all starts with a Marxist-Dims takeover of our government and Joe Biden's puppet presidency.
00:01:12.060 And then there's our economy's descent into recession.
00:01:15.800 Don't forget, two consecutive quarters of contraction of our GDP, our economy, is the very definition
00:01:21.960 of recession.
00:01:23.200 And we were in recession in the first six months of this year.
00:01:26.700 That coupled with almost double-digit inflation, a nightmare for millions of Americans.
00:01:31.800 And the stock market is in bear market territory.
00:01:35.980 That is, stocks have fallen 20% and more from their highs.
00:01:40.300 If you've looked at your 401ks and mutual fund, you likely haven't been too pleased.
00:01:45.480 The stock market has lost almost $8 trillion in value.
00:01:50.220 Not good.
00:01:51.220 And here is President Joe Biden in January of this year.
00:01:56.680 The stock market, the last guy's measure of everything, is about 20% higher than it was when my predecessor
00:02:06.980 was there.
00:02:08.140 It has hit record after record after record on my watch.
00:02:11.540 Yes, this is the same guy who's driving inflation as well, with runaway federal spending, higher
00:02:18.460 energy prices, crushing businesses, large and small, with higher interest rates.
00:02:24.380 Biden's tearing up our economy.
00:02:26.900 But Senator Klobuchar says a vote for the Marxist-Dims in these upcoming midterm elections could stop
00:02:33.400 hurricanes, are you ready, from hitting Florida.
00:02:36.660 And two, you've got leaders in Congress, like Senator Schumer and Speaker Pelosi, as well
00:02:45.840 as there are Republicans that want to work with them, where we have been able to step
00:02:50.060 by step by step push these bills through.
00:02:53.200 And so, I think so many times people counted us out, but we want to make clear we've got
00:02:58.400 the backs of the American people.
00:03:00.020 And while we have clear disagreements, we don't want, if the Republicans take charge, a number
00:03:04.920 of them have been talking about an abortion ban.
00:03:07.060 You guys know that.
00:03:07.960 You featured on the show.
00:03:09.180 That's why we've got to win this midterm.
00:03:10.920 We just did something about climate change for the first time in decades.
00:03:14.860 That's why we've got to win this as that hurricane bears down on Florida.
00:03:18.760 We've got to win in the midterms.
00:03:20.440 We understand that.
00:03:22.060 But none of that has stopped us from deciding we're going to put our differences aside and
00:03:27.260 get some things done.
00:03:28.520 That is what that vote is today in the Rules Committee, where you're going to see a strong
00:03:32.960 bipartisan support, a very good hearing for changes to the Electoral Count Act.
00:03:38.140 The Marxist Dems have had complete control of the federal government for almost two years
00:03:43.560 now, and along comes Hurricane Ian.
00:03:47.300 Not great timing.
00:03:49.060 These Marxist Dems are dangerously indifferent to truth, and the destruction they visited on
00:03:54.580 the whole country seems to not bother them in the least.
00:03:58.220 They've done the same to our federal government.
00:04:00.380 But it's rife with corruption, the FBI and DOJ are simply slaves to the Marxist Dems who
00:04:06.440 control the Democrat Party and our puppet president, all aligned with the deep state and the mockingbird
00:04:13.320 national media.
00:04:14.980 And the public trust in the FBI is understandably withering.
00:04:19.000 And former FBI officials are all appalled at what we're witnessing.
00:04:23.460 To take up the public's distrust now of the FBI and DOJ, our guest today is Kevin Brock.
00:04:29.340 Kevin is a longtime veteran of the FBI, former assistant director for intelligence, deputy
00:04:35.340 director of the National Counterism Center, and now head of the New Street Global Solutions
00:04:40.500 firm.
00:04:41.600 Kevin, thanks for being with us here on The Great America Show.
00:04:45.140 First, your reaction to all the controversy around that special master assigned to be the
00:04:51.200 overseer of documents seized from President Trump's offices by the FBI in Mar-a-Lago.
00:04:57.280 Well, certainly, Lou, great to be with you.
00:05:00.620 Thanks for having me.
00:05:01.980 I think perhaps maybe Trump attorneys are now wondering if they, you know, be careful what
00:05:07.660 you wish for.
00:05:09.500 Special Master Deary seems to be taking this quite seriously, as he should.
00:05:15.280 There have been some allegations leveled back and forth about this search, which obviously
00:05:20.440 is highly controversial.
00:05:21.520 And I've commented on in the past, I think it was too wide in scope.
00:05:25.980 I think there's indications that the FBI seized more than what the warrant allowed them to
00:05:31.940 seize.
00:05:32.820 The Trump camp is understandably pushing back against that.
00:05:37.620 I don't think they're helping themselves when the former president makes statements such
00:05:42.300 as he believes the FBI may have planted evidence or forgot or, you know, didn't take their shoes
00:05:48.800 off in his bedroom.
00:05:50.080 That doesn't help him in the court of public opinion, probably.
00:05:54.700 Um, but the, the search itself invites enough questions to where I think it's a good thing
00:06:02.740 that the special master has been appointed.
00:06:05.060 I think he'll take it seriously enough to, to, uh, to address some of the concerns, um,
00:06:12.560 on the Trump side and, uh, and I, and that will, I hope, uh, help get to the bottom and get
00:06:20.460 some clarity around, uh, what a search that has essentially ripped this country apart politically.
00:06:28.220 It has, and the polls, uh, already, uh, country divided, but the polls are showing that Biden's
00:06:36.040 numbers are plummeting, uh, that the confidence of the American public and the FBI, uh, is at
00:06:41.840 levels I never dreamed we'd see a few years ago.
00:06:45.240 Yes.
00:06:45.980 Uh, it's, it's stunning stuff.
00:06:48.720 And then we see this special master, Deary, as you said, uh, it's, he, he seems like he
00:06:56.320 is fully on board with the justice department and absolutely against the, the Trump team.
00:07:03.620 He's, he asked the lawyers whether they believe the FBI lied about seized documents.
00:07:09.080 Uh, he's carrying out, if you will, uh, interrogatories here, uh, rather than trying to make a judgment
00:07:15.880 about the propriety of certain documents that were seized, it seems to me.
00:07:21.800 Yeah, they're very pointed questions.
00:07:23.900 Uh, and again, uh, there seems to be, uh, they seem to be zeroing in on the inventory of items
00:07:31.220 that were seized and this, of course, includes, it's been generally characterized as, you know,
00:07:38.820 11,000 documents, 1800 other items, um, classified materials, perhaps up to a hundred different
00:07:46.200 documents.
00:07:46.760 Um, and, and I think there's some question as to what was seized precisely the Trump team
00:07:57.040 and fairness wants to understand whether or not these things that were seized seem to
00:08:03.860 line up with that, which they believe they had in their possession.
00:08:06.920 That's given rise to the questions of whether there was other information, you know, put on
00:08:11.620 the inventory list that didn't exist.
00:08:13.480 All of that has to be sorted through.
00:08:15.960 And, um, the other thing, Lou, I'll say that I found fascinating was the special master
00:08:21.100 basically inviting the Trump attorneys to make their case ahead of any potential charges or
00:08:30.160 a trial that the president declassified these documents.
00:08:35.140 Uh, the attorneys, I think, understandably demurred on that.
00:08:38.300 The press made a bigger deal out of that as though they were, you know, they didn't believe
00:08:42.400 he had that authority.
00:08:43.380 I think it was more of a, um, litigation strategy that they didn't want to divulge the, their
00:08:49.380 best defense in all of this.
00:08:50.820 So it's a, it's fascinating the way it's playing out.
00:08:54.220 It is.
00:08:55.200 And I'm not sure it should be quite as fascinating as it is, Kevin.
00:08:59.840 It's, you're talking about discovery here.
00:09:02.800 These are, these are pre-discovery issues.
00:09:05.480 Uh, this special master is operating in the interest of the prosecutors so they can see
00:09:11.240 what the, uh, the legal strategies are of the Trump team.
00:09:15.280 That would be wonderful if every, if every defendant would have to do that.
00:09:19.500 Uh, but it's, it's, as I understand it, that's just not the law.
00:09:23.120 And to have a special master again, Deary, uh, saying, uh, you know, shut up or, or, or put
00:09:30.380 up, uh, prove your case, uh, and we, and giving what eight days to, to bring forward that case.
00:09:36.920 Uh, I I've never heard of that happening.
00:09:39.180 And, uh, in my career as a journalist, uh, how about you?
00:09:43.400 Yeah, I don't think any of us has seen anything like this quite play out.
00:09:47.960 Um, you know, to your point, Lou, there, the, the Trump team may be having some buyer's remorse
00:09:53.160 because obviously he was one of the, uh, special master nominees, uh, that they suggested, uh,
00:10:00.020 when he was appointed, uh, you know, now they're finding out that, that perhaps they're getting
00:10:06.320 harder questions that they anticipated, or, or maybe there's a perception that, uh, Deary
00:10:11.520 is, is advocating for one side over the other.
00:10:14.460 I'm not sure that's clear yet.
00:10:16.100 Um, but, um, he's definitely not messing around.
00:10:20.600 He's definitely holding attorneys, uh, feet to the fire.
00:10:24.580 Um, I, you know, we'll see whether or not there are similar questions being posed to the
00:10:32.880 DOJ attorneys that we don't have visibility into.
00:10:36.320 Um, so, you know, it's, but I agree with you.
00:10:40.500 This is, this is unprecedented.
00:10:42.320 It's, it's very interesting to watch.
00:10:44.300 And, you know, to your point, uh, about the issue of public opinion and his statements
00:10:50.440 about the FBI framing him, we've got to, I think in all fairness, we've got to remind
00:10:56.480 ourselves that president Trump has been the victim of FBI and DOJ frame ups from before
00:11:05.920 his president, before he was even elected president.
00:11:09.060 Uh, the Russian collusion, uh, hoax, uh, is, is, is there, uh, Michael Flynn was framed,
00:11:17.240 uh, two, three Oh two, uh, agents with three Oh twos that were altered.
00:11:22.760 I mean, this is, this is tough stuff and none of this is happening in a vacuum.
00:11:27.940 Is it, uh, we've had six years of persecution of this president.
00:11:32.620 And frankly, I can't imagine what the FBI would not consider doing, uh, to go after this
00:11:38.900 president, your thoughts.
00:11:40.260 And that, and that, and that saddens me to hear anybody say that you're, you are deeply
00:11:46.860 respected, obviously, and as a journalist and that, and you, but you're articulating a
00:11:51.780 perception that now has taken root in this country.
00:11:56.200 Uh, and when I say perception, it's a perception that's grounded a lot in reality, just the things
00:12:02.280 you listed off right there.
00:12:03.560 And I've commented extensively on this as well.
00:12:05.980 My whole motivation is to make sure that the FBI doesn't lose the trust of the American
00:12:11.680 people.
00:12:12.160 If that's lost their effectiveness as an agency, uh, and a force for good in this country is
00:12:17.560 eroded and that will damage our democracy.
00:12:20.160 I could not care less about individual executives inside the FBI acting in a way that they create
00:12:28.420 perceptions of malfeasance.
00:12:30.280 And, uh, and that's what happens starting back with the whole crossfire hurricane.
00:12:35.980 Uh, James Comey led team at FBI headquarters that, that first of all, opened up a case that
00:12:42.120 was not adequately legally predicated crossfire hurricane.
00:12:46.320 Secondly, ran with a discredited dossier paid for by Trump's political opposition.
00:12:53.580 That should have been a red flag enough for them to not even go near it, but yet they used
00:12:58.400 it, uh, largely by their own admission as basis for a FISA application to electronically surveil,
00:13:06.300 uh, Carter page.
00:13:08.220 Right.
00:13:08.740 And, and they lied to the court, uh, in, in doing that.
00:13:12.860 At least one FBI employee is obviously proven to have lied to the court and others misled.
00:13:18.160 But this is a travesty and, and, and you're exactly right.
00:13:23.300 If I'm in Donald Trump's shoes, I'm not sure I can trust anything that the FBI does.
00:13:30.460 Um, and, and he should be looking at everything very, very carefully and, and, and it's understandable
00:13:35.920 if he does.
00:13:37.100 I was just making the point that certain, certain statements that he makes, I don't think necessarily
00:13:44.680 accrue to his benefits, but I don't blame him for having the concerns.
00:13:49.180 He is the strongest president this country has had in memory.
00:13:53.680 And he is all the stance, in my opinion, between us and almost certain authoritarianism on the
00:14:01.280 part of the left.
00:14:02.180 We're watching it every day.
00:14:03.760 I, I wish it were anything, but what it is here, uh, you talk about the importance of
00:14:08.920 the FBI and the department of justice.
00:14:10.960 There's not a single person that I know of outside of the FBI and the DOJ who has committed
00:14:18.420 wrongdoing of all the investigations that they've opened and pursued of all of the charges they've
00:14:25.380 made.
00:14:26.400 I, the perpetrators turn out time after time, after time to be officials of the department
00:14:32.480 of justice, they turn out to be actually four consecutive directors of the FBI lying to the
00:14:37.640 American people and FBI agents, uh, as you well know, uh, FBI agents.
00:14:43.880 Now, it looks like that they're going to, I won't go this far.
00:14:47.860 It looks like there could be an accounting for agents, uh, who abused the power of the agency
00:14:53.960 and their authority, uh, and broke the law.
00:14:56.280 Uh, your thoughts.
00:14:58.440 Yeah, this is, uh, this is troubling on a number of fronts.
00:15:02.360 Uh, to your larger point, we had this country convulsed because of inappropriate and a misuse
00:15:10.940 of FBI authorities by James Comey and his team at headquarters, none of whom have been held
00:15:15.840 accountable.
00:15:16.240 In fact, they enjoy lucrative media contracts and book deals.
00:15:20.240 Um, lower level, you know, people, the Kevin clients miss the world, not to absolve him.
00:15:26.280 What he did was wrong.
00:15:27.560 Um, you know, uh, are being held accountable and, uh, and, and being examined for what they
00:15:34.740 did, but the leadership always seems to escape.
00:15:38.320 And this is, this is really, really troubling.
00:15:41.020 So you're, you're exactly right.
00:15:43.540 Um, but I think it even gets a little bit worse, Lou, if, if, if you look at what's happened
00:15:48.200 since the Russia collusion debacle was debunked and shown to be what it was, um, the perception
00:15:55.400 continues to this day that the FBI is acting on behalf of a politically motivated department
00:16:05.080 of justice led by Biden's attorney general, Merrick Garland in a, in a series of now well-known
00:16:13.840 incidents that lead the American people, or at least well, or half the country to believe
00:16:19.100 the American, that, uh, the FBI is pursuing the policies and political agendas of the Democrat
00:16:26.260 party over Republicans, high profile arrests, emphasis on certain, um, you know, favored
00:16:34.040 topics of criminality to the left and to the exclusion of, uh, or perceived exclusion of
00:16:43.000 adequate investigation into things like the Antifa riots or Hunter, Hunter Biden's laptop
00:16:48.160 or, uh, fire bombings of, of, uh, pro-life pregnancy centers.
00:16:53.700 There seems to be an imbalance and that perception that, that is now, I've never seen it before in
00:17:01.260 my professional career shortly in the FBI is, is a grave threat to this country.
00:17:07.700 Agent Tebow tried to, to bury the case, uh, Hunter Biden has more protectors and law enforcement,
00:17:15.220 uh, and the intelligence agencies than anyone would have dreamed.
00:17:19.340 We know 51 former, uh, and actually in current, uh, veterans of the intelligence agencies themselves
00:17:29.100 lied when they strongly implied, I'll put it that way and give them a break, uh, strongly
00:17:36.620 implied that Hunter Biden's laptop was a, uh, it was evidence of a Russian disinformation campaign
00:17:44.000 when they knew full well, it was a lie.
00:17:46.260 They shut down the public's right to know in this country, which I don't know of it ever happening before,
00:17:50.980 certainly not on this scale.
00:17:52.680 Uh, we, and here we are four years into a tax evasion case and still no action on Hunter Biden,
00:17:59.360 who is on video committing gun crimes.
00:18:02.280 He is kind of, uh, committing, uh, drug crimes, gun crimes, you name it.
00:18:08.200 Uh, it's, there's no one in this country.
00:18:11.860 They don't have to be lawyers.
00:18:13.160 They don't have to be FBI agents, uh, to understand that this is a, this is a moment in history
00:18:20.000 that we, we had no idea would ever come our way.
00:18:24.420 This is the stuff of, uh, of, uh, banana republics and totalitarian regimes in Eastern Europe.
00:18:31.640 It has nothing to do with anything in America's bedrock heritage.
00:18:35.860 Yeah, and you and I have been around long enough to recognize that inflection point
00:18:43.880 that we stand on right now.
00:18:46.000 You know, we, you know, politics, um, going back to the seventies, it was, um, it wasn't
00:18:53.760 as bitterly divided as it is right now.
00:18:55.820 It is deeply, deeply partisan.
00:18:57.600 And it is driven by two or three major, um, issues that, that leave this country.
00:19:04.320 And, um, and so we see things happening to where, uh, 51 former intelligence community
00:19:14.680 executives, many of whom I know worked with consider friends signed on to an absurd letter,
00:19:21.860 uh, written by Jake Sullivan to, um, to forestall campaign damage to Biden ahead of the election
00:19:30.140 in, in 2020, um, probably even more disturbing than them just signing the letter is the fact
00:19:38.200 none of them have modified their position or commented on that since, since then.
00:19:43.700 And since we have learned that what they stated was objectively untrue.
00:19:48.740 Objectively untrue.
00:19:51.740 And also the attorney general of the United States, William Barr.
00:19:55.780 He knew in that second presidential debate, the final debate of 2020, that former vice president
00:20:02.580 Joe Biden was lying through his teeth to the American people.
00:20:06.140 He knew it.
00:20:06.900 He acknowledges such.
00:20:09.200 And he chose not to intervene, uh, incited policies of the DOJ on intervening during election.
00:20:15.900 But what he did was to intervene with his silence, his acquiescence to what Joe Biden did, which
00:20:23.420 is lie to the American people about it being Russian disinformation to lie about his lack
00:20:32.520 of knowledge of Hunter Biden's business dealings with foreign companies and countries, uh, in
00:20:38.500 the, in the, uh, in the interest of Joe Biden and his family, it's, it is rotten corruption
00:20:46.020 at, and it's worst.
00:20:47.600 And we can't get our law enforcement agents, agencies that we depend upon to enforce the
00:20:53.400 law.
00:20:53.640 A law means nothing if it's not enforced.
00:20:55.520 And as you, as you said, there's only one party against whom the, the laws are being
00:21:01.940 enforced, uh, and that is the Republican party.
00:21:06.620 And in fact, they're not even laws, they're frauds and they are, uh, hoaxes.
00:21:12.600 Uh, it's, it's, it's just obscene to think where we are.
00:21:16.260 You bring up a very interesting point, um, and you're correct.
00:21:21.080 It is department of justice policy, not to take an, an overt investigative step or public
00:21:28.280 stance six or was it 90 days out from a major election.
00:21:33.900 Um, you'll notice the Mar-a-Lago search was done on that 90th day.
00:21:37.420 They just got it done that, uh, just in time, uh, to avoid that policy violation.
00:21:42.680 Um, yeah, uh, the attorney general is going to adhere to that policy, but 51 former intelligence
00:21:50.240 community, uh, executives aren't bound by that at all.
00:21:54.240 Um, I would, I would love to see 50 former law enforcement, federal law enforcement executives,
00:22:01.680 um, you know, write a letter expressing concern about the politicization of our criminal justice
00:22:10.080 system.
00:22:10.760 Uh, I think there's enough concern there to where people who have been in this arena,
00:22:18.340 uh, would be articulate, would be fair articulators of that concern.
00:22:23.660 Barr knew by the way, and I, and I neglected to say this, Biden knew, uh, almost a year before
00:22:31.180 those presidential debates about the Hunter Biden laptop.
00:22:35.320 He knew its contents and he knew, he knew, uh, that they were, they were not Russian, uh, disinformation yet.
00:22:44.900 Yet he persisted.
00:22:45.900 And interestingly, in September of 2020, he started talking to the media about his concerns
00:22:52.480 about the integrity of the election.
00:22:54.480 Uh, talking about how difficult it could be to assure the integrity of an election that
00:23:00.520 has this much mail in balloting twice as much as we had ever witnessed.
00:23:04.480 And it's interesting too, to see that, that twice as much mail in balloting in 2020, uh, you
00:23:10.520 would think it would have a very close, uh, correlation to the number of ballots that were
00:23:15.420 in dispute or question.
00:23:16.880 In fact, those questions and didn't dispute ballots dropped by 20%, even as the number
00:23:23.900 of ballots doubled, uh, it, it is, it is, uh, on its face, uh, assorted, uh, sickening affair.
00:23:34.140 Yeah, I think that that, that sore point in particular still festers, um, in, in America,
00:23:42.200 certainly with the people who, who voted for Donald Trump, I know there's a concern that
00:23:49.600 right after the election, it seemed very, it seemed, uh, that the conclusion that there
00:23:58.180 was no voter fraud was drawn very quickly without really looking at some of the probable
00:24:05.240 cause or indicators of probable cause that of some malfeasance.
00:24:09.560 Um, I'm not sure whether subsequent investigations have validated a theory of widespread, uh, election
00:24:19.100 fraud that, that could have changed the outcome of the election.
00:24:23.360 Um, and I'm not sure we're ever going to know that, but, um, there, we, we certainly got
00:24:28.960 a wake up call in this country, uh, you know, on the heels of the COVID lockdown as to what
00:24:35.480 kind of mischief is possible when, um, when voting becomes a little too easy.
00:24:43.100 So shall we say, and, uh, invite opportunities for, uh, manipulation.
00:24:48.460 So that's a concern that's still out there.
00:24:51.240 And, and I, and I think if power shifts, we're going to see a renewed focus on trying to understand
00:24:57.320 that.
00:24:57.620 Yeah.
00:24:58.180 I think to your point, I think the only way we ever know the truth is if, uh, we see
00:25:03.140 a sizable, sizable Republican victory in the midterm elections, particularly in the house,
00:25:09.540 uh, so that they can proceed.
00:25:12.360 It's as I, as I look at this from, you know, from the standpoint of history, there's nothing
00:25:18.060 that approaches it in all of American history.
00:25:20.340 Uh, we've had, uh, various instances of voter fraud, but we've never seen anything on this
00:25:26.920 scale at this level.
00:25:28.780 We do know, for example, that had, uh, according to the polling that if people had known that
00:25:35.680 Biden's laptop was not Russian disinformation, I believe the number is 13, perhaps as high
00:25:41.340 as 15% of those who voted for Biden would not have.
00:25:44.060 And of course that would give the margin of victory to Donald Trump.
00:25:47.940 Uh, and so we know that Barr changed history, no doubt about it.
00:25:53.620 Uh, we know that the FBI participated in that as they sent out agents, uh, to, if you will,
00:25:59.460 inform, if not intimidate, uh, big media, uh, big tech, uh, and social media to drop the
00:26:06.940 story that was published on the 14th of October by the New York post.
00:26:11.380 Uh, it's just a sad moment in our history.
00:26:14.820 And I don't know where this all will lead the country, but my hope is like, I'm sure it is
00:26:21.220 yours, that we will get a better understanding of what's required to right this many wrongs.
00:26:28.100 We're watching the, with that question, I think you would agree, but we're losing the public.
00:26:32.740 Our government is loose, has lost the public trust.
00:26:35.820 Uh, what is in your judgment, the future for the FBI, for the department of justice?
00:26:41.740 And I know that requires a lot of assumptions, but, uh, you're, I'd like to get your thoughts
00:26:46.220 given your experience and, uh, your history.
00:26:49.540 Yeah, thank you.
00:26:50.700 I have been giving this some thought and I think history actually might instruct us a little
00:26:55.700 bit on, on this point.
00:26:57.180 Um, but obviously there have been calls ranging from, you know, complete dissolution of the
00:27:03.260 FBI, let's disband it, let's do away with it.
00:27:05.580 It's, it's corrupted its core, as Senator Grassley said, it needs to be changed fundamentally.
00:27:11.420 You hear that from some politicians, but more from media pundits, uh, more lately, you've
00:27:17.420 heard speculation that perhaps some defunding of the FBI is in order.
00:27:21.820 Um, and, and then, and then others, maybe a little more moderated, look, we've got to
00:27:28.360 look at some reforms.
00:27:29.440 I think at minimum reforms are always a good thing or looking at reforms are always a good
00:27:35.940 thing.
00:27:36.160 That's a process in this country.
00:27:37.820 The last time it happened in a major way was following Watergate, uh, when they held the
00:27:43.320 church committee hearings back in the mid seventies.
00:27:46.420 And they realized that the executive branch in this country was able to exercise powers
00:27:53.300 to particularly electronically surveil people, uh, and, and monitor activities of, of individuals
00:27:59.840 in this country.
00:28:00.820 Ironically back there, more on, more on the left, the anti-war, the, uh, and the, um, and
00:28:06.760 the civil rights leaders.
00:28:07.780 Um, and so that, that, that kind of, uh, motivated Congress to act to, to reform and rein in the
00:28:17.940 powers of the executive branch and the FBI specifically, but not just the FBI, the CIA
00:28:22.180 as well, because they were concerned about sanctioned assassinations.
00:28:25.680 And so it, it, it, it generated a whole bunch of reforms for the FBI, most notably the institution
00:28:31.320 of the attorney general guidelines, which just real quickly give the FBI their, their
00:28:37.500 boundaries as to what's required before they can open up a case against, uh, an individual
00:28:42.980 in this country and what, what is required, uh, to be able to show before you can do that.
00:28:48.520 FBI welcomed that.
00:28:49.620 That was, these are great.
00:28:51.180 We understand what our, you know, where the lines are that we have need to color in, in,
00:28:54.980 in, uh, stay in between.
00:28:57.720 And so all of that was considered good and logical reform.
00:29:04.100 I think now that we have seen a pattern of abuses linked to using government authorities,
00:29:12.820 um, against political opponents, clearly motivated by political, uh, agendas there, that caused
00:29:23.440 some calls for some, uh, introspection as well.
00:29:27.000 And, and some adjustments to the attorney general guidelines that will allow greater oversight and
00:29:33.920 internal controls so that things can't happen like they did under James Comey, where they just
00:29:40.080 decide, you know what, we're going to open up a case against Trump campaign officials, even
00:29:44.300 though we don't have adequate reason, uh, a legal basis to do so.
00:29:48.300 And then move forward to a special counsel investigation that went on with another, almost
00:29:54.640 two years of FBI investigation, a special counsel investigation and produce no evidence
00:29:59.700 of wrongdoing whatsoever on the part of the president.
00:30:02.340 But again, raise lots of questions about the conduct of the FBI and the Department of
00:30:07.700 Justice.
00:30:08.380 I, I guess I, I would like you to know if you don't already, I've called for, uh, reform for
00:30:15.220 the Department of Justice and for the FBI, not its dissolution, uh, or simply eliminating
00:30:23.220 it, but taking out the national security division from the FBI.
00:30:27.980 It gives them far too much in the way of power that is too readily abused by any agency,
00:30:34.720 a point of fact.
00:30:35.980 Uh, and I think it's a divide that has to be restored.
00:30:38.800 Uh, there was a time we saw that on wall street, uh, there was a Chinese wall between, uh, investment
00:30:44.220 banking, retail banking, uh, there's just human nature is what it is.
00:30:49.980 And we have to have police, internal police within the FBI.
00:30:54.200 Michael Horowitz, we now know actually, uh, did not act to curtail wrongdoing on the part
00:31:01.380 of agents.
00:31:02.300 Uh, he was part of the problem instead of part of the solution as inspector general.
00:31:07.600 What do you think?
00:31:08.420 Well, I, I think that that's, um, you are, you're talking in ways that make, uh, logical
00:31:17.820 sense this, the need for reform is going to be acute.
00:31:21.300 I think, you know, the last time it was right after 9 11, when, uh, there was a pretty good
00:31:27.000 impetus, um, and in this, in this country motivation in Congress and through the, uh, the, uh, 9
00:31:34.460 11 commission to break out that national security, uh, responsibility from the FBI.
00:31:40.320 And they came within a whisker of actually doing that.
00:31:43.140 Um, there was a, uh, a promise by Robert Mueller at the time to create an intelligence directorate,
00:31:49.820 um, to, uh, more formalize the collection of intelligence that might help, um, you know,
00:31:58.320 interdict, uh, acts of terrorism before they happen.
00:32:02.280 And I was privileged enough to be the first assistant director of that directorate.
00:32:07.300 Um, I'm not sure it has fully lived up to its original vision and remit.
00:32:13.600 Um, there's probably still a work in progress.
00:32:16.640 I, I would balance the, the, um, the, the instinct to pull that out of the FBI by pointing out that
00:32:25.100 creating another domestic intelligence agency doesn't necessarily solve the problems we're talking about today.
00:32:32.160 I think there's some fundamental root, um, guidelines that have to be put in place no matter who holds that mission
00:32:39.500 to make sure that when there's issues of politics involved, political campaigns, uh, political positions in this country
00:32:50.320 that are held passionately, that any governmental investigation of those things, uh, are, are really
00:32:57.760 tightly controlled so that, that they, the American people have the assurance that any investigation
00:33:03.920 is going to be well justified.
00:33:06.060 Everybody would nod north and south and yep.
00:33:08.440 Yep.
00:33:08.920 Absolutely.
00:33:09.440 That should be investigated.
00:33:10.740 And then there's no dispute about that.
00:33:12.900 And I think we can get there.
00:33:13.960 I think we can implement those kinds of reforms.
00:33:16.980 Well, uh, I'm hopeful as you are.
00:33:19.680 I, I'm also, uh, this point, uh, very skeptical of what can be done, not simply because of the,
00:33:27.680 the, the organizational upheaval that has to be, uh, we have to go through, but because
00:33:34.300 of the politics, the politics of this thing are interesting to me because here we are with
00:33:40.360 Joe Biden, who is, I think it's fair to say, I want to ask you to comment on this, an impaired
00:33:45.480 president.
00:33:46.340 Uh, he is, uh, a puppet for the Marxist Dems who are driving the democratic party farther
00:33:51.540 and farther to the left.
00:33:53.120 What I find interesting in this politically is that despite that alignment with the CCP,
00:34:00.060 with the dictatorships all over the country and authoritarian forces, the FBI seems to have
00:34:07.020 lined up, uh, and done the bidding of the, the Marxist Dems.
00:34:12.020 Uh, and I think if we did not have that extant reality, we probably would have an FBI that
00:34:19.220 still had its storied reputation and the regard of the American people.
00:34:23.960 Your thoughts.
00:34:24.880 I agree.
00:34:25.920 Uh, it troubles me deeply as somebody who, you know, I gave 24 years of my adult life, my
00:34:31.080 personally, largely my professional life to the ideals of the FBI.
00:34:36.440 And I will say this, and I've said it before, the FBI is an ideal.
00:34:38.960 It's not an institution.
00:34:40.400 It's a bureaucracy.
00:34:41.320 It's made up of people, but the ideal of the FBI is a treasure and needs to be protected
00:34:48.720 at all costs.
00:34:50.200 And, um, and, and that perception, there's a, there's a widespread perception in this
00:34:56.260 country right now, uh, that, that has, that ideal has been damaged and the FBI needs to
00:35:03.720 understand that and take steps to fix it.
00:35:07.440 The leadership of the FBI passes different.
00:35:10.900 There's generations of leaders that pass through this institution.
00:35:13.760 It's one ideal.
00:35:14.840 It's different leaders.
00:35:15.720 Each leadership generation has a responsibility to protect that trust.
00:35:20.260 And insofar as they don't do that, then they are failing in their duties.
00:35:25.220 And right now we are seeing a cavalcade of investigative steps that lead reasonable people to believe
00:35:36.560 that one political agenda is being pursued against another using the powers of the department
00:35:42.100 of justice.
00:35:42.800 I think of Joe Biden, Joe Biden, you know, he's got, if he didn't have two of his children,
00:35:49.340 all of his political problems would go away.
00:35:51.000 Hunter Biden and his daughter with her, her diary, um, the, the, um, the American people
00:35:56.780 are, you watch things where the, the department of justice, you know, does an early morning
00:36:02.360 search of journalists who had access to actually Biden's diary.
00:36:07.940 They didn't steal it.
00:36:09.000 It was given to them.
00:36:10.500 They tried to return it and yet they still suffer a early morning search warrant to seize
00:36:17.360 a diary that is valued at most, probably $20 at Walmart.
00:36:23.300 It doesn't meet the guidelines for interstate transportation of stolen materials to be prosecuted
00:36:29.360 by any U S attorney in this country.
00:36:31.440 And yet here we are.
00:36:33.540 So these types of egregious oversteps by the department of justice, um, are, are troubling.
00:36:41.700 And insofar as the FBI goes along with that, uh, it damages the bureau ideal.
00:36:49.860 I think the bureau needs to step back.
00:36:52.260 They do have independence from department of justice.
00:36:55.240 It is well established and they can exercise that.
00:36:58.380 They do not have to go operate in lockstep with, with a department of justice that has,
00:37:03.840 uh, a specific agenda in mind.
00:37:06.860 To that point, the idea that we have seen so many of these SWAT team raids, uh, men and women
00:37:14.280 in full tactical gear at 6 AM, uh, rousting 70 year old, uh, people, uh, uh, men, their wives.
00:37:24.240 Uh, it's just astonishing to me that those FBI agents would allow themselves to be used
00:37:31.360 in that ugly and unlawful, in my judgment, unlawful way.
00:37:35.760 We now are hearing from 20 whistleblowers for the, for the house judiciary committee, the
00:37:40.940 Senate judiciary committee that in fact, that in fact, the FBI not only had a portal and
00:37:48.480 a Democrat law firm, but that they were, they were absolutely, uh, being told to inflate
00:37:57.280 the public image of domestic terrorists, if you will, uh, white supremacist, uh, supremacist
00:38:06.040 terrorism, which was an entire, uh, entirely fabricated notion on the part of the seventh
00:38:11.920 floor of the FBI.
00:38:14.640 Well, I'll modify that just a little bit.
00:38:17.300 Um, the, the emphasis on domestic violent extremists, as they call them, DVEs is a policy
00:38:24.320 agenda set by the Biden administration and the department of justice.
00:38:28.500 This frankly is not that unusual.
00:38:30.380 Each administration comes in, they'll have an emphasis on a crime problem that they want
00:38:34.380 to focus on.
00:38:36.240 Now, the Biden's folk, Biden administration's focus on domestic violent extremism is probably
00:38:41.140 a little more politically charged than what we've seen in the past, where administrations
00:38:45.240 will come in and say, Hey, we want to, we want to end gun violence or street gangs in
00:38:48.840 the inner cities.
00:38:49.700 We want to, you know, have an emphasis on drug trafficking, whatever it is.
00:38:53.760 Um, but each time that is done, it does set an agenda where the FBI is oversighted by
00:38:59.540 Congress to show, uh, and the, and the party in power to show, are they aligning resources
00:39:05.940 according to the administration's, uh, agenda?
00:39:08.960 Um, and that, that can have some legitimacy that said, to your point, the, it is never correct.
00:39:17.700 For the FBI to look for cases or inflate numbers and statistics to inflate agent resource,
00:39:27.060 our dedication to a certain crime problem artificially in order to satisfy, uh, an administration's
00:39:35.460 agenda or, or the Democrat party administration, uh, agenda in Congress, uh, that is never appropriate.
00:39:42.260 And there's always pressure to do that, but it always ends badly when that happens.
00:39:47.940 So, um, yeah, there's, there's, that's again, another straw that's on the pile of concern
00:39:54.660 among Americans that, that the authorities of the judicial system are being directed in
00:40:02.220 one direction at the expense of other, even more serious crime problems, uh, that exists,
00:40:08.480 uh, in the nation today.
00:40:10.280 Let me ask you as we're, as we're wrapping up here, are there Republican law firms that
00:40:18.640 have FBI portals in them?
00:40:21.880 I'm not deeply familiar with that story.
00:40:23.900 I did read something about it, Lou.
00:40:25.520 Um, uh, and I, I don't know if there is, so I'm not sure I can comment on it.
00:40:29.700 It does seem there could be an innocuous explanation for it.
00:40:34.000 I, it escapes me.
00:40:34.820 It's nothing I ever saw or encountered when I was in the FBI.
00:40:37.820 Yeah.
00:40:38.060 Uh, and we're talking about the FBI portal, uh, at the law firm of, uh, Perkins Coy, which
00:40:44.460 was the Democrat, which is the Democratic National Committee, uh, legal firm of choice, uh, where
00:40:51.100 Michael Sussman, uh, who was charged with lying to the FBI, where he played a prominent role
00:40:57.300 and for which there's never been any accountability.
00:40:59.760 And I've been waiting on the national media, Kevin, I've been waiting on the national media
00:41:04.460 to do some digging into this and find those Republican portals and wonder how many other
00:41:09.960 portals are in Democratic law firms around the country.
00:41:12.920 Uh, let me, let me do this.
00:41:15.540 Uh, we always, uh, give our guests the last word, your concluding thoughts.
00:41:20.440 And, uh, if you will, sir, uh, that time is now.
00:41:23.880 All righty.
00:41:25.500 Well, thank you.
00:41:26.860 Uh, when you, great questions, you're, you're surrounding many issues that are troubling Americans
00:41:32.880 today and, uh, and need to be addressed.
00:41:36.040 Uh, the FBI has to take this on head on and take steps to restore that, that trust, that
00:41:43.180 lost trust or damaged trust, um, that, that they, they do right now.
00:41:48.060 I, I still remain optimistic.
00:41:49.820 I have great hopes.
00:41:51.860 I, I talked to a lot of FBI, uh, both retired FBI agents and agents that are still inside
00:41:58.720 the Bureau.
00:41:59.140 I think we can reassure your, um, your listeners that, uh, all the things that we see as troubling
00:42:06.860 are also being perceived that way within that FBI family and community, uh, largely, uh,
00:42:13.800 I'd say the vast majority, uh, are concerned.
00:42:16.500 Um, and so, you know, nobody wants to, everybody goes into the FBI career with a lot of pride
00:42:24.840 and understandably and justifiably so.
00:42:27.040 So, and, uh, and, uh, and FBI agents want to be thought of as, as patriots who are doing,
00:42:33.340 uh, the right thing to bring justice where it needs to be brought in this country.
00:42:37.680 And for the large part, 98% of the time, that's exactly what happens.
00:42:42.840 Um, but you can see how the, the misuse by a few can create so much havoc.
00:42:51.040 And, uh, I pray that that can be corrected.
00:42:55.100 Amen.
00:42:56.260 Kevin Brock, long time, uh, top official of the, uh, of the FBI.
00:43:02.180 We appreciate your time.
00:43:03.640 Uh, we thank you for sharing your thoughts and, uh, I hope you'll come back soon as we
00:43:09.300 continue to cover this critically important issue for the nation.
00:43:13.440 It's my privilege.
00:43:14.960 Thanks, Lou.
00:43:15.860 Thanks so much.
00:43:16.440 God bless.
00:43:17.320 God bless you.
00:43:18.940 Thanks everybody for joining us today.
00:43:20.980 Tomorrow, leading GOP pollster and strategist for the McLaughlin Group on what voters are
00:43:26.280 saying about this upcoming midterm election, about 40 days away now, and which party they
00:43:33.000 really prefer.
00:43:34.300 Please join us.
00:43:35.200 Till then, God bless you and God bless America.