The Great America Show - J6 A MARXIST CRIME

00:00:00.000 Hello, everybody. I'm Lou Dobbs, and this is The Great America Show. Welcome. Great to have you

00:00:08.780 with us. And you know, Americans have fallen into a bad habit or two. We used to be known world over

00:00:15.140 for being plain-spoken, hard-working, fairly modest, and God-fearing, known as well for our

00:00:21.860 ingenuity, our sense of humor, and being plain-spoken. As you know, we've lost credit for

00:00:27.800 many of those values and traits over the decades. But plain-spoken is a virtue we can easily reclaim

00:00:34.920 for our national character. Too often, folks seem to be holding back to avoid hurt feelings,

00:00:40.840 to avoid sensitive subjects, to avoid direct answers to direct questions, or fancy up titles

00:00:47.720 like garbage workers or sanitation workers, teachers or educators, news reporters are really

00:00:54.020 correspondents, and soldiers and sailors are now service members. The Democrats were liberals.

00:01:01.200 Then, they were progressives. Some will now admit to being outright socialists, but they still don't

00:01:07.500 want to be what most of them really are. They're at best Marxist Democrats, some outright communists.

00:01:14.760 So leftists, be warned. You're now in American territory with The Great America Show,

00:01:20.700 and we do try to be plain-spoken here. And is everybody ready? Because here we go.

00:01:27.740 The Marxist Dems Special Counsel Jack Smith's team is to appear in a Florida courtroom today.

00:01:35.160 Their purpose? To hound and to politically persecute President Donald Trump. Smith is seeking a

00:01:41.860 protective court order to prevent President Trump and his team from delaying the trial for the FBI raid

00:01:48.680 on Mar-a-Lago and their seizure of presidential documents. In the Marxist motion to be heard by

00:01:55.460 Judge Eileen Cannon today, the Marxist activist Smith wants the court to keep some information and

00:02:02.360 material withheld from the president. Smith demanding that President Trump not be able

00:02:07.840 to see certain subjects, to talk about certain subjects. Now he wants to keep evidence from the

00:02:14.340 man Smith is trying to put in prison. The filing states this, quote,

00:02:20.120 The defense may not disclose classified information to the defendants unless that same information has

00:02:26.720 been previously disclosed to the defense by the defendants or provided by the government with

00:02:32.460 markings indicated it may be disclosed to the defendants, end quote. What happened to plain-spoken,

00:02:39.340 right? It seems highly peculiar to me that a prosecutor would be withholding potentially

00:02:44.520 critical documents from any defense, which in my non-lawy opinion should certainly guarantee the

00:02:51.260 president an appeal depending the outcome of the case. President Trump was our special guest

00:02:56.540 yesterday on the Great America Show and had this to say about the weaponization of the federal

00:03:02.660 government and in particular the Justice Department and just how much money that corrupt Department of 0.93

00:03:09.160 Justice has spent to harass, to hound, and try to destroy him.

00:03:14.340 The Justice Department, or the Injustice Department as we call it, is literally weaponized. It's

00:03:21.860 weaponized against a political candidate that's leading, think of it, a political candidate that's

00:03:28.680 leading Biden by many points and also leading the Republicans by many points. And they've weaponized

00:03:35.400 that nobody thought it was possible over nonsense. And they've spent, I guess now the number is 11

00:03:41.200 million, but that's as of a couple of months ago. So that number would be like 20 million, 25 million

00:03:46.900 dollars. And don't forget, you have to do one other thing. You have to add to that the Mueller report where

00:03:52.500 they spent 48 million dollars and all of the other nonsense. They probably spent hundreds of millions of

00:03:58.400 dollars on trying to get me. These are long-time fascists and Marxists and communists in our country.

00:04:06.840 And we got to win in 24 or we're going to lose our country.

00:04:11.000 As President Trump said, 2024 is a must-win for the republic to survive the untold evil the Marxist

00:04:19.420 Dems have unleashed on America. And Dr. Fauci comes to mind. He still may be in hiding, but that's not

00:04:27.360 stopping members of Congress from looking into some of his highly unethical and questionable things

00:04:33.180 done while at the National Institutes of Health. Congresswoman Kathy McMorris Rogers, the chair of the

00:04:40.480 House Energy and Commerce Committee, released a report this week that accuses Fauci and other health

00:04:46.280 officials of illegally approving 26 billion dollars in grants paid for, of course, by you and me,

00:04:54.380 the American taxpayers. Rogers said 14 NIH officials, including Dr. Fauci, held unlawful positions

00:05:03.240 and exercised authority that they didn't have, which included approving 26 billion dollars in grants.

00:05:11.060 She accused the NIH of misleading the committee over the past year of the investigation.

00:05:16.280 As you know, in Washington, accountability is hard to come by.

00:05:20.720 Turning now to a topic that has little to no accountability, the January 6th committee

00:05:26.120 and all the evil that they have spawned. For the past two and a half years, the government has been

00:05:32.060 overcharging and illegally charging and holding defendants. One defendant has the courage to take

00:05:38.860 on the system. January 6th defendant Edward Jacob Lang is asking the Supreme Court to hear his

00:05:45.720 challenge against one of the 11 charges against him. That charge is obstruction of an official

00:05:51.060 proceeding, a charge that could carry a 20-year sentence. Before his trial, the plaintiff filed a

00:05:58.380 motion to dismiss the obstruction charge, which was granted by the D.C. District Court,

00:06:03.540 then ultimately overturned by the corrupt appellate court. Jacob's attorney says the obstruction

00:06:09.680 charge could be levied against anyone who attends a public demonstration gone awry. The charge is

00:06:15.980 nothing less than the weaponization of the penal code to stifle dissent. It sets a terrifying precedent

00:06:22.380 unworthy of this nation's history. I want to bring in now our guest. He's Stephen Sund, the former chief

00:06:28.420 of Capitol Hill Police. He was there on January 6th in charge of the Capitol Police Department. Stephen,

00:06:35.000 it's great to have you with us here on The Great America Show. We're delighted that you took the time

00:06:38.940 to be with us. As I said, we're two and a half years distant from January 6th. Do you feel any

00:06:44.580 differently today than them? Well, first, thank you very much for having me on, Lou. It's a pleasure to be on

00:06:51.020 your show today. It's interesting. You know, the first couple of weeks after January 6th, you know, I was

00:06:56.840 shell-shocked, I'd say, having done a 30-year career, law enforcement career, in the city.

00:07:02.520 So I was a little shell-shocked. You know, I did my best to try and communicate. And a lot of people

00:07:07.480 may not know this. I talk about it in my book. With leadership, I wrote an eight-page letter to

00:07:12.700 leadership, got zero responses. And at the time, I think I was still pretty darn close to what we're

00:07:17.520 going to see. We're going to see this is going to turn into an institutional failing on a number of

00:07:22.320 levels. But I've come to just learn a lot more. At the time, I didn't realize just how bad some of the

00:07:28.160 response was from the military, just how bad some of the intelligence that existed coming into January

00:07:33.520 6th was, that was not made available to me. And just how bad the oversight of the Capitol Police

00:07:41.320 was, the political oversight, which has not changed to this day. So you'd think, you know, coming up,

00:07:46.740 here we are, like you said, over two years, almost two and a half years. And it's still a mess

00:07:52.400 downtown. The issues, I think, that occurred, I have no more better feeling wouldn't occur again.

00:08:01.180 So I think I've just gotten to know the fidelity a little bit clearer since January 6th, 2021.

00:08:08.680 And I want to, again, you're going to hear me say this several times during our discussion here.

00:08:13.760 The book is Courage Under Fire. And the author, of course, is Stephen Sund. And Steve,

00:08:20.880 I just, your sense, your opinion about that day, has it changed over that time?

00:08:30.760 It's changed since the original event occurred. I'd say it's changed considerably. And, you know,

00:08:38.520 gosh, where do you, you know, where do you want to start? There's so many different avenues we can go

00:08:41.840 down. But, you know, like I was saying, when you find out just, you know, one about the intelligence

00:08:46.280 that existed. And I've done major events in Washington, D.C. for years. I've had concerns

00:08:54.020 for terrorism come up. I've worked closely with the Bureau, closely with DHS. And none of the

00:08:58.340 intelligence this time seemed to be handled the way it was in previous events. They'd do conference

00:09:02.960 calls. They'd do an executive briefing. They'd bring the chiefs down for a secure briefing in the

00:09:08.660 WFO. None of that occurred this time. No joint intelligence bulletin came out. And now you look

00:09:15.720 at the threat streams associated with this. It's just, it's very concerning when you look at that.

00:09:21.340 And then you think, you know, the National Guard, you know, had 340 National Guard personnel activated

00:09:27.660 to support the D.C. request. And we'll go to my request. And they wouldn't move any of those

00:09:34.380 personnel, many within eyesight for hours. And I was begging and pleading on the phone with the

00:09:39.740 Pentagon for them to send me any assistance they could. And they wouldn't move them for hours.

00:09:43.800 They arrived basically when the fight was over. But yeah, you look at it and it's just, you know,

00:09:49.720 the more I learn, the more I realize, you know, Congress was the one responsible for passing the

00:09:54.820 law. I'm the only chief in the United States of America that actually has a law. It's 2USC 1970 and

00:10:00.420 2USC 1974 that requires I go and I get Capitol Police Board approval and congressional leadership

00:10:07.340 approval prior to bringing in any federal resources in advance of an event. I wanted the National Guard.

00:10:13.940 January 3rd, I went and asked multiple times for the National Guard with the Sergeant Arms and was

00:10:18.520 denied. And that's a law Congress passed. And that law to this, to a certain extent, still exists.

00:10:25.540 The only thing they changed is during an emergency, like we had on January 6th, I don't have to go to

00:10:31.200 the Capitol Police Board anymore. I can. The chief can request it on their own. But the funny thing is

00:10:35.980 they made it revocable by leadership. You know, so it's still way too politicized. And when you mix

00:10:42.440 political oversight with law enforcement security, it's a recipe for disaster.

00:10:48.300 I can't imagine how it could have been much more politicized than it was.

00:10:52.180 That environment, as we look back on it, and I agree with you, the intelligences that I've

00:10:57.340 looked at over these two years, I'm just stunned at how incomplete the chain of command was in what

00:11:08.120 it knew from one level to the next. I am stunned by the idea that somehow this was going to be a benign

00:11:16.260 and not an unruly event, despite the hyper-political charged nation in which it was occurring in the

00:11:26.800 nation's capital. I would have just thought common sense in most cases would have been enough to say,

00:11:33.260 let's beef up, let's get ready for whatever transpires. I never thought it would end up with

00:11:39.680 the violence that it did in several places. But on the whole, to look at that day, I have to wonder

00:11:48.760 why the leadership, you're talking about the Sergeant of Arms, the Sergeant of Arms reported

00:11:54.960 to the Speaker of the House, did he not?

00:11:57.160 That is absolutely correct. The House Sergeant of Arms report, Paul Irving reported to Speaker Pelosi.

00:12:01.760 And Nancy Pelosi is the one pushing back against any further, and I'm not speaking about this as a

00:12:11.120 partisan. I am with, I will tell you straight up, I am a partisan. I happen to believe that Donald Trump

00:12:17.280 is the man of this time in our history. And I think he was denied the presidency for a number of

00:12:26.920 reasons, the January 6th among them, and the way in which the Democrats exploited it. But I want to

00:12:32.620 ask you, why do you believe she did not want to bring troops, whatever reinforcements she could,

00:12:40.440 to that moment?

00:12:41.560 There was a concern, and I found this out later from Michael Stinger, the Senate Sergeant of Arms,

00:12:46.820 there was a concern over the look, the optics, as she said. And I'll tell you, this is, now I found a

00:12:53.260 little bit more as we look into January 6th. So shortly after January 6th, I want to say maybe

00:12:58.240 October 2021, I was able to have a couple meetings with Stinger. We had both left the department he

00:13:05.760 had mentioned. I said, hey, how did you know I was coming over to your office staff for the National

00:13:09.380 Guard? And he explained how. And I said, well, why such a quick denial? And he said, Paul Irving was

00:13:14.420 absolutely against it because he said Pelosi would never go for it because of the optics. And it was a

00:13:19.420 concern. I believe she was the one that referred to National Guard and the federal

00:13:23.080 agents on the streets of cities during the 2020 riots as stormtroopers. And she didn't want that

00:13:29.160 look on the hill. Well, the look we had was a whole lot worse. And you talk about what occurred

00:13:36.080 that day. Any loss of life is absolutely tragic. The shooting that we had, nobody wants to see any

00:13:41.900 loss of life. But when you think about what could have happened and you think about, I had members of

00:13:47.480 Congress, Tim Ryan, you know, who wasn't a big supporter of law enforcement as it was, but

00:13:53.580 nonetheless was screaming at me afterwards why we didn't open fire on the on the group. That would

00:13:59.560 have been a hell of a dark day for America. Good Lord. If if law enforcement had just gone ahead and

00:14:04.840 opened up fire, open fire. And as you and I are talking here, hundreds, hundreds of J6 political 1.00

00:14:11.880 prisoners, because I believe that's what they are, remain in federal custody in jails and prisons

00:14:18.160 around the D.C. area. And in nearly every instance. So again, this is my opinion. Every prosecutor

00:14:27.260 overcharged, every judge over sentenced. It's the most, I think, heinous transgression against this

00:14:37.840 country's values and constitutional rights I've ever seen. So I'll tell you this. And again,

00:14:44.980 I talk about this in the book. I'm a rule of law type of person. I'm a constitutionalist. I'm a rule

00:14:50.360 of law type person. And when you look at, you know, what's what's going on and the response and the

00:14:55.540 prosecutions you had and the claims of the insurrection for January 6th, you know, let's

00:15:01.180 harken back to was it May 30th through June 2nd, 2020, when you had the crowds attacking the White

00:15:07.500 House. You had in January 6th, you had approximately 100, a little over 170 officers

00:15:13.340 injured December. I mean, 2020 down at the White House, you had over 180 officers. So more officers

00:15:19.980 were injured down at the White House. They shut down White House operations. They forced the president

00:15:24.100 to retreat down into the bunker and staff. That's shutting down a government operation. That's just

00:15:30.180 as much an insurrection as what occurred up on the Hill by definition.

00:15:33.820 And who were those demonstrators and rioters?

00:15:36.780 Right. Well, how many of those were prosecuted? It's my understanding. All charges were dropped

00:15:40.580 against them. You had multiple cases of arson. They lit structures on fire in Lafayette Park. They

00:15:45.840 lit St. John's Church on fire and they tried to light the Hay Adams Hotel, which is occupied on fire.

00:15:50.800 Zero prosecutions out of that.

00:15:53.340 Well, the rule of law is critically important to this nation. And I believe that the rule of law

00:16:00.560 law has never been more vulnerable and in jeopardy for a host of reasons, which we'll take

00:16:07.920 up with Stephen Sun, the former chief of the Capitol Police Department. We're coming right back

00:16:15.200 with Steve. Stay with us after these quick words from our sponsors.

00:16:19.440 And we're back now with Stephen Sun. We're talking about the January 6th, of course. And I want to tell

00:16:33.300 you that his book, Courage Under Fire, I want to recommend it to you highly. Under Siege,

00:16:39.580 outnumbered 58 to 1 on January 6th. He was the man in the in the cauldron on that day. We were just

00:16:48.220 talking about the difference in the way in which Antifa, left-wing demonstrators and protesters and

00:16:58.380 rioters were treated and that those who were both rioters and as well innocent, in my judgment,

00:17:09.020 absolutely innocent victims and political prisoners. I think you're making a great point

00:17:15.300 because as you say, you're a man of law and an officer of the law as well. It is incredible,

00:17:22.640 this system of justice that's being denied to millions of Americans. And frankly, there is no

00:17:29.700 uprising. I'm astonished there hasn't been on the part of the Republican Party, independents and

00:17:35.620 everyone else who has been, who is threatened by this ugliness that is emanating from the Department

00:17:43.020 of Justice, the FBI, and of course, the White House. Like I said, you know, being the rule of

00:17:49.260 law person, I agree. When you look at, you know, the way the rioters were treated during 2020 versus

00:17:55.360 the 2021 event up at the Capitol, definitely a stark difference. There seems to be, you know,

00:18:02.540 an attack on the rule of law. There seems to be attack on First Amendment. And it's very concerning

00:18:08.020 with the youth. I agree that, you know, it's concerning that there wasn't an uprising in

00:18:13.140 2020 and demand for, you know, civility to the, what do they call them, mostly peaceful protests.

00:18:20.180 And then, you know, you see the reaction that they had up at the Capitol. And I got to tell you,

00:18:24.940 when you look at the way the intelligence was dubbed down, the way the military wouldn't come

00:18:29.420 to my assistance, the way I had to wait 71 minutes while we were under attack, Lou, 71 minutes while

00:18:36.840 my officers were fighting on the West Front before I could get approval from the Capitol Police Board

00:18:41.740 to even bring in federal resources. Think about that. It took 81 minutes before the first window

00:18:46.440 of the Capitol was broken. People don't realize. If they really were concerned about, you know,

00:18:52.000 stopping that, they would have given me the resources I needed and given me an approval to

00:18:55.620 bring in federal resources much, much quicker. It's hard not to think that there's, you know,

00:18:59.380 something a little more nefarious behind this. I want to get your sense of what is behind it

00:19:04.100 and why, for example, was there such a quick denial on the part of the military? Why was there such a

00:19:13.840 quick and apparently standing rejection of your request for more support, reinforcements, and troops

00:19:22.960 by the Speaker of the House when everyone was watching a very large number of people

00:19:29.760 there on that on that day?

00:19:33.740 So a lot of a lot of different aspects to that that question. I will let's go back and first look at the

00:19:37.840 at the military. When you now realize that General Milley and Christopher Miller, the acting secretary of defense,

00:19:46.000 both on the Sunday, January 3rd, the same day that I was talking about getting the National Guard,

00:19:52.060 were on a conference call talking about shutting down the city because they were so worried about

00:19:56.440 the level of violence that was expected. Yet the very next day, Christopher Miller puts out a memo

00:20:01.860 that restricts the National Guard from carrying any civil disturbance and cure, any helmets, riot shields,

00:20:09.260 anything like that. That just doesn't make any sense. They're so worried about the violence taking place

00:20:14.240 on the Capitol. They talked about revoking the permits on the Capitol. You know who signs those

00:20:18.800 permits? I do. My intelligence unit actually recommended approval of those at a low risk of

00:20:26.680 civil disobedience. That's the type of intelligence that I was getting. And all the intelligence I

00:20:30.760 outlined clearly make available in the book. Literally, it was told it was going to be just like

00:20:36.000 the previous two demonstrations. Matter of fact, one of the deputy chiefs in charge of intelligence

00:20:41.980 was briefing members of Congress on that Tuesday before January 6th, on January 5th,

00:20:47.960 that it was going to be just like the previous two events. So my hands going into this are tied

00:20:52.820 because if the intelligence doesn't portray what we're expecting, I'm not going to get the approval

00:20:57.400 for better fencing, mutual aid, National Guard. So we're hamstrung going into it. So that's one aspect

00:21:05.680 of why the military was such a big problem. And think about it. Even while we're under attack,

00:21:10.560 and they won't send any military assistance, even what people, military officers, and now it turns

00:21:15.000 out they did have the right gear with them, that were within eyesight of the Capitol, they sent

00:21:19.300 Pentagon resources to generals' homes to protect their homes. But they wouldn't send them to the

00:21:26.300 Capitol. That's just ludicrous. Why is it that, in your judgment, the intelligence was so far off?

00:21:33.160 What was the source of that intelligence? Was it, did you have your own agents and officers

00:21:39.020 in that regard, finding out what's going on, trying to, or was it the Metropolitan Police? Was it,

00:21:46.880 who was it?

00:21:48.720 Okay. So the way it works is I do have, I have a intelligence division. They're a intelligence

00:21:54.860 division, which is part of the Capitol Police. They're not part of the IC, the statutory IC.

00:22:00.060 They work closely with DHS, work closely with FBI. And within there, I have analysts.

00:22:04.940 Then I have directors and assistant directors, and then within my intelligence unit. So they

00:22:10.440 should have been working real closely with the FBI, getting access to some intelligence. I'm now

00:22:15.180 finding out that there was a fair amount of intelligence provided to them. There's a number

00:22:19.280 of whistleblowers, just like you're seeing, come out in the FBI. Within my own agency, there were

00:22:24.760 several whistleblowers within the intelligence unit that has come out and said, hey, we're pushing all

00:22:29.200 this intelligence up. It wasn't being included in the intelligence assessments being provided to

00:22:34.020 leadership and to the rank and file.

00:22:36.660 What was the bottleneck?

00:22:37.960 Well, bottleneck, but you tend to wonder why. There was a intelligence briefing by my intelligence

00:22:43.800 unit on January 4th. Guess who they didn't invite? Me. I've probably got the most experience of any

00:22:49.760 police officer up on Capitol Hill handling major demonstrations, and they don't invite me to

00:22:53.700 one of the final intelligence briefings.

00:22:56.360 Which decision was that?

00:22:58.160 That came out of the Protective Services Bureau that oversees the intelligence unit. There's a

00:23:04.020 deputy chief, Gallagher, that coordinated the meeting with his staff. So somewhere in that line,

00:23:11.920 they elected not to have me there. What's interesting is they were later asked by

00:23:16.360 Carol Lennig of the Washington Post, hey, why wasn't Chief Sunning invited to this? And the department's

00:23:21.660 response was, because it wasn't a meeting he would usually attend. This was more of a discussion

00:23:26.720 operational meeting. This isn't a meeting Sun would usually attend. Well, I find that odd because I

00:23:31.380 always attended intelligence meetings. I always ask specific questions. And if you sure as hell think

00:23:36.620 the Capitol is about to come under attack and members of Congress are going to be at risk of losing

00:23:41.880 their lives or injury, you sure as heck would expect this chief of police to be invited. That's just

00:23:47.460 nonsense. As we look at the sequence that day, the west side, the exit door that's left wide open,

00:23:57.460 309 demonstrators walk in peacefully. They might as well have been invited and handed ID bracelets.

00:24:06.280 How did that happen? And what was the spark that turned that demonstration for many of those

00:24:16.280 demonstrators into a riot?

00:24:18.740 Yeah, the spark is interesting because as you as you're coming up to 1253 is when the fight on the

00:24:24.940 west front began. 1241, I think it was we had the 1242. We had the suspicious package found over at the

00:24:31.820 Republican National Committee. So we're dealing with the pipe bomb. 1253, I look down, I see a group

00:24:37.320 of protesters approaching the west front and wide officers down at what's called the Pennsylvania

00:24:43.020 Avenue and Maryland Avenue walkways. They approach and almost immediately begin fighting with my

00:24:48.360 officers. We don't have we don't have audio from the cameras, so I can't hear what's being said down

00:24:54.180 there. But afterwards, you see what looks like some people almost instigating some of the

00:24:59.100 some of the crowd into into attacking my officers, an individual by the name of Ray Epps. He was seen

00:25:05.820 the day before talking about the need to get into the Capitol. He's seen down at the I believe it's

00:25:10.260 the Pennsylvania Avenue walkway just moments before, you know, whispering in the ear of one of the

00:25:14.920 rioters. And then all of a sudden, the rider starts, you know, fighting with my officers.

00:25:19.320 So I don't know what the spark was that that kicked it off. I've had many demonstrations that I've

00:25:24.700 handled. I've never seen it. Who was that that was whispering in his ear? A gentleman by the name

00:25:29.240 of it. They were identified as Ray Epps. And that that gentleman has been the focal point of from

00:25:35.820 almost the very beginning of the after action reporting, I'll put it that way, a prominent role.

00:25:43.700 And we know absolutely nothing about him. We're going to we're going to continue, obviously,

00:25:49.640 with Stephen Sund, who is the former chief of the Capitol Police. And I want to I want to carry

00:25:57.320 it from here, Steve, to who were those folks instigating? What do you think their roles were?

00:26:04.460 And how did they come to be on the on the Capitol grounds that day? We're going to continue

00:26:12.060 with Stephen Sund right after these quick words. Stay with us.

00:26:19.640 We're back. We're talking with Stephen Sund and his book is Courage Under Fire. I just, again,

00:26:28.800 want to recommend it to you highly. And Steve, let's let's let's talk about the the spark.

00:26:36.740 And you're you're highlighting one instance of what looked to you to be obviously instigation

00:26:42.960 with Ray Epps standing there whispering in the ear of a person who went on. If I'm if I'm

00:26:49.380 reporting on your words correctly, went on to to breach the Capitol.

00:26:55.160 Well, not went on to breach the the barricade that was right there, the individual that started

00:26:59.240 fighting with the officers. I'm not sure where they ultimately ended up, but I do address address

00:27:04.140 it in the book. It's you know, it's interesting. You see it come up and you see the people begin

00:27:08.240 to fight. And I will say you had what looked like core groups of people in the in the crowds

00:27:13.540 that were fighting with the officers. I do think there was a number of people that, you know,

00:27:17.120 I'd refer to them, I don't know, the term strap hangers that maybe they were like, hey, just,

00:27:21.760 you know, coming along to see what was going what was happening. But you look at, you know,

00:27:25.540 what I was seeing from in the command center. And you're absolutely right. I was in the center

00:27:28.580 of this. I'm up in the command center at twelve fifty three. I see them hit the officers on the

00:27:33.500 west front begin fighting. And like I said, I've never seen a group come and immediately start

00:27:38.300 getting that confrontational with officers. And I've done demonstrations for years.

00:27:41.900 I immediately called the Washington, D.C. Police Department or partner agencies for

00:27:46.500 the assistance and for mutual aid. They immediately sent in officers. My next call

00:27:51.980 was the sergeant arms. And that's when the seventy one minute clock starts ticking. When you see some

00:27:56.340 of the worst fighting happen, you know, as I look down in the crowd, I saw people, people that were

00:28:00.760 coming up there jabbing my officers with flagpoles and spray their own kind of chemical spray.

00:28:05.120 I saw one that one protester fall of a heart attack from me as we were watching the command

00:28:11.560 center. But there was a number of people that clearly came with a with a goal. I'm not gonna

00:28:17.480 say it was everybody in the crowd, but clearly came with a goal of breaching, breaching the capital at

00:28:21.520 all costs. A lot of those officers, especially the D.C. police, who I used to work with for over

00:28:26.300 twenty five years, they're hardened CDU civil disturbance unit officers. And they were they were battling

00:28:32.140 pretty hard to keep the people out of the out of the capital. And eighty one minutes is a long time

00:28:37.100 to fight before the first window is broken. You had brought up about the the door. I'll tell you

00:28:41.640 the door. I'm just hearing more about, I think, just the news yesterday. You got to understand,

00:28:49.240 you know, Nancy Pelosi goes on national TV the very next day, calls for my resignation.

00:28:54.780 I talked to the Capitol Police Board, submit my letter of resignation, doing a couple of week

00:28:59.360 transition. The very next day, I get a call at home the morning of the very next day and says,

00:29:04.780 you're out immediately. And who do they put? They put the assistant chief in charge of intelligence

00:29:08.700 back in to be the acting chief. The one who forgot to bring you to a meeting.

00:29:14.740 Yeah. Yeah. Ultimately, it was her it was her division. So and the failure of intelligence. But

00:29:21.300 needless to say, so I'm out. So I wasn't there when they're going through all the the video footage

00:29:25.600 and stuff like that. But to see what was happening, like when you look at you have two doors,

00:29:29.660 you have an Upper West Terrace door, which is the very top terrace of the Capitol looking at it from

00:29:34.920 the the mall. And then you have what's called the Lower West Terrace, the Lower West Terrace door.

00:29:39.520 We had video on. We were watching it from the command center. And I was watching that battle go on.

00:29:43.700 And that that fight went on for hours. Little did we know the door right above it. Someone,

00:29:48.860 an officer, according to the reporting now, escorted a couple of protesters that are inside the Capitol

00:29:54.400 out, opened a fire door, which didn't re-secure. You know, we're fighting like hell to defend the

00:29:59.720 door below while the door above is wide open. And, you know, you have 300 protesters enter in

00:30:04.460 through that door. Yeah, that wasn't something at the time we knew about in the command center. I

00:30:08.220 think that's come out with the video. And I will tell you this. All for the release of the video,

00:30:13.480 I'm a I'm all about transparency. I'm all about, you know, the the facts getting out there.

00:30:17.940 I think, you know, some some of the video gets interpreted, you know, a little differently

00:30:21.600 how people watch it. But needless to say, I just want to put that out there. I'm,

00:30:25.720 I'm, you know, all in favor of it being out. There is a strong apparent, apparently feeling

00:30:33.340 on the leadership of the Republican Party, Speaker McCarthy and others that to release that video

00:30:39.980 would be to to jeopardize security. I am, as you would guess, given my career,

00:30:47.480 I'm all about the public's right to know. And I'm all all squared up against elites,

00:30:53.800 no matter whether they be government officials, whomever they may be looking down on the American

00:30:59.620 people as if they're idiot sheep who can't make judgments for themselves. I really deeply resent

00:31:06.540 what the Republicans are doing about this video. And I would I hope they change it. I want to get

00:31:12.060 your opinion as well. Well, they're making a lot of it available. And I will tell you the

00:31:18.000 there are probably are a very limited instances where, you know, certain security features and

00:31:23.760 concerns could be portrayed and they can easily be blurred out. And I think those will be addressed.

00:31:29.720 So to blankingly say they don't want to release it, I think I think that wasn't good. You know,

00:31:34.900 wasn't good. Now you look at any any crime that occurs anywhere, especially one involving police

00:31:39.160 officers, the body worn cameras usually released within two weeks. So you look at it, what concerns

00:31:45.060 me is when you start seeing things like the January 6 committee using some of the video footage. And

00:31:51.120 I'll tell you, all our all our camera systems have video, none of them have audio, right? And there's a

00:31:56.180 couple of instances where there was audio that was imported to make it sound more dramatic. Let me tell

00:32:01.520 you, if a police police officer, a police chief ever changed body worn camera footage and change the audio,

00:32:07.060 they'd be fired and probably brought up on charges.

00:32:10.280 And that's exactly what the J six committee did. And if that were only the only sin they committed,

00:32:16.220 I think I might be somewhat assuaged, but they committed crime after crime against truth, reason,

00:32:24.100 justice, and this nation. I think that the entire January 6 committee should be brought up on charges

00:32:31.160 for their despicable corrupt acts of political persecution. I want to ask you, how how large do you

00:32:39.740 think the FBI contingents with all of your knowledge, with the intelligence that you're being fed, all that

00:32:46.000 you're aware of? How big a role did the FBI play in what happened on January 6?

00:32:53.760 Well, that's, I mean, that's, that's, that's a pretty big question. How big of a role did they

00:32:58.920 play? I'll tell you when you, when you, when you look at it and more and more information is coming

00:33:05.920 out, I think the GAO just had a report that came out March of 2023 that talked about like 41 federal

00:33:13.420 agents were in the crowd. I'll tell you, I got a call shortly after January 6 from a reporter is

00:33:21.060 actually an overseas reporter. And they started asking about the FBI having agents in the crowd

00:33:26.000 tracking domestic terrorists. And at the time I thought I would have known if they were tracking

00:33:31.640 domestic terrorists. It would have obviously told me I have a great relationship with the Bureau.

00:33:35.560 And now you find out more and more, there's more reporting coming out. Now you find out the GAO is

00:33:40.080 reporting. There's multiple federal agents in the crowd. You, you, you begin to, you begin to wonder.

00:33:45.960 Um, but I think there was probably, I think there was probably a number of undercover, what role they

00:33:50.680 played. Uh, just, it'd just be a guess. You know, I mean, it'd just be, I can't, can't really say

00:33:56.640 what role they played, but it now appears in depth probably had some in the crowd.

00:34:01.180 I, I, I'll, I'll ask it this way. Do you think that Ray Epps is being protected by the FBI?

00:34:08.960 Um, your best judgment. Yeah. As a matter of fact, I think another article came out today

00:34:15.860 saying that it appears, uh, there's some type of protection being done. You know, I, I, I don't

00:34:19.580 know. I will say, you know, I think he came out on 60 minutes and did an interview. And the one

00:34:25.040 thing I'll say, he said he went up and what he was telling the office, the, uh, protester, what he

00:34:30.100 went up and whispered in the protesters ear is, Hey, these officers are our friends. They're,

00:34:34.100 they're not our enemies. Don't hurt the officers. And then immediately the guy attacks my

00:34:37.700 officers. Let me, let me ask you this. If you're going to go and you see all these confrontational

00:34:42.400 protesters and you're going to tell them, Hey, these officers are, you know, they're doing their

00:34:46.840 job. They're not our enemies or our friends don't attack them. Why would you go and whisper it in

00:34:51.180 the person's ear and cover your, cover your lips. So people can't lip read, uh, when you yell it to

00:34:55.560 the entire group, something's just, it's just not holding water in my view. Um, there's so many,

00:35:01.000 so many things to, to January 6th that, you know, I, I address as many of them as I can in the book

00:35:05.620 that raised a lot of concerns, but that is definitely another one that I think, um, just

00:35:10.020 hasn't been fully answered, you know, his role. And the book is courage under fire. I want to ask you

00:35:15.780 here as, uh, as we continue to approach the end of this discussion, uh, Lieutenant Byrd, uh, Lieutenant

00:35:25.220 Michael Byrd shot and killed Ashley Babbitt as she went through, uh, entered, uh, an office area

00:35:32.920 in the Capitol, your thoughts about the way in which the department handled that, uh, and whether

00:35:41.160 or not Ashley Babbitt to this day deserves justice. You know, uh, like, like I said before, I think any

00:35:49.140 lost life is, is tragic. Um, you know, as I, as I explained before, I was immediately removed,

00:35:54.560 uh, after January 6th. So I had no involvement in, uh, his investigation, no involvement in any

00:35:59.920 of the review of the shooting, no involvement in any of that. So, um, it'd, it'd be tough to guess.

00:36:05.020 I do try and address it as best I can in the book in the sense of, you know, these officers, it took,

00:36:10.040 she was, uh, she was shot actually while I was on the phone with the Pentagon begging for assistance,

00:36:14.620 uh, at 2 43 PM. Uh, they broke the first window at 2 13, I think it was 2 11, 2 12. Um, and that was

00:36:23.620 81 minutes into the fight. So these officers had been hearing the, the group progressing, you know,

00:36:28.220 getting closer and closer and closer, uh, when you have a, a, a protectee and it's a statutory, uh,

00:36:33.840 protectee as of the Capitol police as the members of Congress, and you have people that are coming

00:36:38.100 through. And, uh, if you feel it's a threat to bodily, serious bodily injury or death, and they're

00:36:43.820 coming through the last, um, um, um, physical, uh, divider you have between your, uh, your protectee.

00:36:50.780 Um, I don't care if it's secret service at the white house or, you know, the, uh, security over

00:36:56.240 at the, uh, Buckingham palace. Uh, I think, you know, at that point, you know, officers are going

00:37:00.280 to be rationed up and probably going to a higher level of force. So, uh, I wasn't there for the

00:37:04.420 investigation, so I can't really make a statement on what I feel about it, but, um, there was a bad

00:37:09.660 situation. I'm just glad it wasn't worse. You know, people don't realize, you know, why during

00:37:15.000 that 71 minutes while I was waiting for approval from the Capitol police board, I was still calling

00:37:18.340 in all my friends. I called in 17 law enforcement agencies, over 1700 officers, uh, and the, the,

00:37:24.780 uh, restraint they used, I think they were very professional in how they handled things. Uh, and

00:37:29.980 I'm just glad they were, you know, there wasn't more, uh, use of lethal force.

00:37:33.200 Yeah, I am too. And I, I have to tell you that, that, that instance of, uh, lethal force

00:37:39.040 was not only a regrettable, but I, I think, uh, frankly, um, it was a time when the, the

00:37:47.280 police department, the Capitol police should have without question, uh, use due process and

00:37:53.020 a full investigation rather than to simply dismiss it and, uh, uh, try to brush it under

00:37:58.920 the rug. Uh, I think that is an offense against everything this country stands for.

00:38:04.460 And I, the one thing I'll add on that, just, just from my experience with Washington DC police,

00:38:08.660 please realize anytime there's a homicide and her, uh, uh, death would have been declared a

00:38:16.120 homicide. Just it's a process of how, um, the criminal investigation is done. The Washington

00:38:20.680 DC police department takes the lead investigation. So there would have been three agencies, uh,

00:38:24.660 investigating that, uh, DOJ, um, FBI, DOJ, uh, Washington DC police would have had the lead

00:38:30.400 and then Capitol police would have been in support. So, you know, I wouldn't say it was

00:38:34.160 completely dismissed, um, uh, by any means there would have been, you know, some form of an

00:38:38.440 investigation, not one that was transparent to the American people. I'll guarantee you that

00:38:43.760 Steve, do you feel like you are the scapegoat for what happened, uh, for all sorts of reasons

00:38:50.360 on January 6th? You know, I'll, I'll tell you, um, there it's, it gets real interesting. I don't

00:38:56.440 want to, you know, put myself out there as the, uh, as a scapegoat. I think, um, full investigations

00:39:02.280 need to be done. Uh, it'd be nice to find out why intelligence was handled the way it was handled.

00:39:07.740 Uh, it would be really nice, uh, you know, especially when, when Mark Miller, General Milley,

00:39:11.860 I'm sorry, General Milley, uh, Mark Milley, we know had communications with, uh, Pelosi on a

00:39:17.700 regular basis, why he was so concerned about the level of intelligence he had. We know he had

00:39:23.560 communications prior to January 6th with the Speaker of the House. Uh, so the big question I have is,

00:39:29.280 did she know the intelligence, uh, the threat that was coming and why was the, um, National Guard

00:39:34.480 denied, uh, and not sent to my, uh, my assistants when they had such a dire, uh, concern just days

00:39:39.800 before. Uh, so when you start looking at all that, something's just not adding up.

00:39:43.740 Yeah. Well, so much doesn't add up about all of this.

00:39:47.180 One, first and foremost to me is the, is the, it's the issue of the political prisoners that

00:39:54.420 are being held in the gulag of DC, uh, the way in which they have been treated by the judiciary,

00:39:59.380 but, uh, by the federal, uh, Department of Justice and, uh, the FBI, of course, it's an outrage.

00:40:08.720 It's an obscenity. What is happening to this country? It's judicial system, it's law enforcement,

00:40:13.280 federal law enforcement. Uh, it's a shame. We always give our guests, Steve, uh, the last word,

00:40:20.800 uh, and I appreciate you being with us and I've enjoyed talking with you and I appreciate you

00:40:25.980 taking the time. Your concluding thoughts, if you will, sir. I would say I'm, um, absolutely agree

00:40:31.780 with you. You know, um, I'm really concerned, you know, FBI, we had a really good relationship with

00:40:36.600 them. I just, uh, I get concerned when you hear about what's going on over there. And, uh, I'll

00:40:41.620 tell you with what's happening in our, in our country, you know, uh, the American people need

00:40:45.280 to wake up and see what's, see what's happening. Um, and I'll tell you, there's, you know, it's

00:40:49.740 been great talking to you. There's so much more, uh, to what, what happened up there. So, you know,

00:40:54.720 I appreciate the comments about the book. I think people will get a lot out of it, but it's been,

00:40:58.120 uh, a pleasure talking to you. Uh, I just hope, you know, as more investigations are done,

00:41:02.520 more answers will come out of this and, you know, things will actually, actually, uh, be corrected.

00:41:08.160 Well, I would like you to come back and let's continue our conversation, uh, and soon, if you

00:41:15.000 will. Absolutely. Thank you, sir. Thanks everybody for being with us. Our guest here tomorrow will be

00:41:20.140 a special guest who's called out the Bidens and the Department of Justice prosecutor who put him in

00:41:25.980 prison for contributing money to the Bidens. Our guest is businessman Chris Tagani, who says,

00:41:32.000 David Weiss and the Biden Department of Justice gave Hunter Biden the sweetest deal imaginable

00:41:37.700 for committing crimes far more serious than anything Tagani was accused of.

00:41:43.260 Please be with us tomorrow. Thanks everybody for listening. Follow me on Twitter and Truth Social

00:41:47.920 at Lou Dobbs, on Facebook and Instagram at Lou Dobbs tonight, and be sure to check out our new

00:41:54.340 loudobs.com website for all your latest news, headlines, and opinion. We hope you'll join us back here

00:42:01.540 tomorrow for the Great America Show. Till then, thanks. God bless you. God bless America.

The Great America Show - July 18, 2023

J6 A MARXIST CRIME

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