JEFFREY CLARK SAYS WE HAVE TO FIGHT LAWFARE BECAUSE THE LEFT HAS CAPTURED THE ABA AND OUR JUSTICE SYSTEM
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Summary
Jeffrey Clark of the Center for Renewing America joins Lou Dobbs on The Great America Show to discuss Marxist Dem Corruption and Political Punishment of Donald Trump and the appointment of a special counsel to investigate the Trump administration.
Transcript
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Hello, everybody. I'm Lou Dobbs, and I hope you had a great Thanksgiving holiday. Thanks for being with us today on The Great America Show.
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As the smoke begins to clear from the midterm election battlefield, it's obvious that the Republican leadership got outmaneuvered in a number of states, among them, of course, Arizona,
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in which we watched the popular Republican gubernatorial candidate beaten by the unpopular and all-but-invisible Democrat candidate who just also happens to be the Secretary of State
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and who oversaw the entire election in Arizona while running for the state's top office.
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Now, this could just be me, but if I'm going to run for office, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't want to run against a candidate who also is in charge of counting the votes.
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I mean, folks, just how smart is the Republican leadership?
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Even the one bright spot in this midterm election was the fact that the Republicans regained the majority in the House of Representatives,
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but have, as things stand now, only a seven-seat majority.
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Usually, the party not in the White House wins, on average, 24 seats.
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So they won fewer than a third that number of seats that they should have, historically.
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I mean, just exactly what have the Marxist Dems done right?
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We'll be taking that up here on The Great America Show for weeks to come.
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And today, our guest is a great American, former top Justice Department official, Jeffrey Clark,
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on the Marxist Dem corruption and political persecution of Donald Trump on top of everything else.
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So back to the Republican leadership, particularly in the House of Representatives.
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who has not a single conservative MAGA American first credential to his name,
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aside from the endorsement of Paul the Rhino-Rion.
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So there is that lingering concern that Republican leaders are either too dumb or too lazy
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to have much of a chance against a political party that lies, cheats, and steals with abandon.
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For crying out loud, Carrie Lake, the GOP candidate for governor in Arizona,
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Her opponent, Secretary of State Katie Hobbs, she really didn't campaign at all.
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Despite not campaigning, not debating, it's almost like she sensed how the vote count would go.
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I'm sure that sixth sense had nothing to do with the fact that she was in charge of counting the votes.
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So let's turn now to our guest today, Jeffrey Clark of the Center for Renewing America.
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And I do believe we can all agree, Jeffrey, we need some considerable renewal.
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Jeffrey is a great American, former top Justice Department official.
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And Jeffrey, great to have you back with us on the show.
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This special counsel, it's all about raw, in-your-face partisan politics, isn't it?
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So now we go to two impeachments of President Trump, now two special counsels, years of FBI investigation.
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And the only lawbreakers that have been discovered in all of this in more than six years of persecution
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have all been FBI agents and Department of Justice officials, and, of course, the intelligence agency's leaders.
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Well, you know, Lou, I think that anything involving this whole concept of a special counsel, special prosecutor,
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or before that, the independent counsel that Congress established by statute,
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I think these things are all anathema to the Constitution.
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I think that the framers envisioned having, you know, the president and then, you know,
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whoever was going to be the head of what ultimately got named the Justice Department,
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that they were the law enforcers, and there needs to be, you know, a chain,
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an accountable chain that the people can point to.
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And this whole idea, which is a post-Watergate, you know, reform, quote-unquote,
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that you can create, like, a fourth branch of government to enforce the laws,
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And I think, you know, the appointment here in these circumstances just, you know,
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reinforces that same historical theme for the whole time that we've had the independent counsel statute
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and now the special counsel regulations at the Justice Department.
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Well, you know, let's agree that it's unconstitutional.
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And I want to blow it up if it's constitutional.
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It's a really bad idea, especially when you've got an administration that is corrupt from top to bottom.
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There's a toxic corruption throughout the Biden administration and the executive branch,
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but certainly the Department of Justice, the FBI, the intelligence community, and it goes on.
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But putting any tool of government, any branch of government under the control of a corrupt puppet president is a really bad idea.
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Well, look, you know, I've spoken many times, done media appearances, and my organization,
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the Center for Renewing America, has been very forceful about the fact that, you know,
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We need reform of the FBI and the intelligence community.
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I mean, it really looks – I mean, how many different investigations and attacks, whether they're federal, state, or local,
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and, you know, it does embrace all three, right?
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We have local prosecutors in New York City and in Georgia.
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And we have, you know, federal ones, obviously.
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How many different things can they gin up against former President Trump?
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It just looks like – it's long past the stage where it looks like they're out to get one particular individual however they can.
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And so what they go through is a kind of revolving door of legal theories du jour.
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And if you watch, you know, what I've taken to calling kind of the, you know, pink slime on MSNBC and on YouTube and the like,
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I mean, they just – whatever the latest, you know, thing is, they're always salivating about, like,
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this for sure is going to be the thing that gets Trump and brings down Trump.
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And they're just – they have no self-critical ability.
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They don't look at what it is that they're saying.
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It's just they're selling themselves to an audience that somehow has irrationally, you know,
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in terms of Trump derangement syndrome, convince themselves that Trump is some kind of antichrist that, you know,
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And it's really a perversion of the American system, Lou.
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But it's also facilitated by the legal profession.
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And no offense, Jeff, but the audience for this crap is not just the, you know, the opposite side
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that the Republican, conservative, independents in this country know full well who Trump is
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and what he represents and the fact that he is not the, you know, the public servant from hell.
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He is, in point of fact, an extraordinary president.
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It is the left that is, without question, evil – it's an aggregation of evildoers.
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But the legal profession right now has not come forward with a solution.
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Because here is a guy that has been persecuted for – we're now in the seventh year of the persecution,
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There hasn't been one instance of wrongdoing proved over the course of that entire time.
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And we're now talking about a second special counsel investigation, three years of FBI investigation,
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separately almost two years of the first special counsel, the Mueller special counsel.
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This is ignorance at a high level being practiced with just abandon by the Marxist left in this country.
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Why is it the ABA, the legal profession itself, the judiciary, for crying out loud?
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The Supreme Court is not saying, this will end.
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Why is that so difficult for the legal profession, for the judiciary, and the head of the judiciary,
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We had talked, Lou, I think on our last conversation about the ABA.
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I mean, I think the ABA has been captured essentially by the left for quite some time.
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You know, about a century ago, it was thought to be a conservative-leaning entity.
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You know, I think it was just more, you know, traditionalist and neutral.
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But by, you know, today's standards, that's, you know, viewed as conservative.
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You can look at what its, you know, governing body, like the equivalent of a kind of House of Representatives
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of the ABA do and the kinds of resolutions that they debate and adopt, that that's true.
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So I don't think there's any help to be watched for from that quarter.
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In terms of the judiciary, I think there's some nervousness created by the fact that President
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Trump obviously was very effective in terms of, you know, seizing the powers that he had
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to kind of lean into what sorts of people were nominated and confirmed to the Supreme Court.
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So he got three justices and, you know, President Trump is not a lawyer and, you know, he thinks
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And so when he was hit with a whole bunch of nationwide injunctions by judges who I think
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were out of control and who were, you know, forum shopped for by lots of leftist special
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interest groups, you know, he responded by, you know, saying things like, you know, these
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And that, you know, got Chief Justice Roberts dander up that, you know, there aren't really
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Well, is John Roberts really that big a fool, Jeff?
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I mean, seriously, is he really that big a fool?
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Or does he just think the American people are fools?
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Do you I mean, does he really think that the American people aren't aware that conservative
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judges and liberal judges exist, activist judges and a handful, a smattering of constitutionalists,
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I mean, if he's really that naive or he thinks that the American people are that naive, he really
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Well, I look at Lou, I think he is a brilliant lawyer and no one could take that away from
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And I think, you know, I've never had a personal conversation with him ever.
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But, you know, I can imagine that that maybe if, you know, you were having a personal conversation
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with him, if you're a close friend or something, maybe he might acknowledge some of the points
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But look, he's the head of the Article III branch of government.
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And, you know, it is important that there should be, you know, judicial neutrality at some level.
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People shouldn't be in their camps committed to ideological principles.
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And so I think that that publicly he has to stick up for that at some level.
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And I think that, you know, kind of you don't want to take positions that sort of, you know,
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force a reaction of, well, we'll demonstrate our our independence.
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You know, I think there are better and more persuasive ways to approach the Supreme Court than
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than to, you know, to necessarily take a combative approach to it.
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Are you talking about me being combative about it?
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Look, I think you're I think you're you're serving your your role in our kind of, you know,
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pluralistic society in criticizing the Supreme Court.
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And I'm not saying the Supreme Court shouldn't be immune from criticism.
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I'm just saying that that in the institutional chair where the chief justice sits, he has
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to he has to he has to look at things differently.
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Could I ask you, let me ask you this, Jeff, because you're making an interesting point.
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And I but I think there is there are other interesting points as well.
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And among those, you're saying that he should pretend to live in a world that doesn't exist.
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You're saying he should pretend to live in a world perhaps those days existed.
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And for a judge to pretend that he is to act as if he's not aware that conservative judges
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are being mobbed, their homes are being demonstrated, demonstrated, you know, Antifa, BLM are outside
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Now, John Roberts may not be having that experience, but Gorsuch, Barrett, you know, Kavanaugh,
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Yeah, I think, Lou, that that the reaction by the Supreme Court justices as a whole to that
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kind of set of intimidation tactics where, you know, Justice Kavanaugh has to worry with
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his family that he's going to be assassinated after the leak of the Dobbs decision, that should
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be met, you know, with a lot of stern denunciation and opposition and calls for new security and
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calls for for the left to renounce those kinds of tactics.
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And I also agree that, look, I remember having a justice did just I'm sorry to interrupt you,
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but did Justice Roberts call for the denunciation by the left of the tactics employed by their
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I see I seem to remember that after the Dobbs leak that, you know, he issued a statement
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indicating that that would be investigated forcefully.
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Obviously, we still don't know exactly where that came from, which it mystifies me that,
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you know, when you have a very limited number of people who are in on exchanging drafts of
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opinions and separate opinions, that they can't be nailed down.
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And who was actually talking to was it Josh Gerstein or not?
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But but yeah, I mean, I think that in this instance, though, that justices, you know,
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know that they can rely on a lot of the people whose job it is right in the in the so-called,
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you know, fourth estate right in the press to kind of carry that battle forward for them
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What I was going to say is that, look, I had a conversation with a number of colleagues
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inside the Justice Department going back to the Bush administration, and we were talking
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about some of the then very contentious confirmation fights for judicial positions.
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And, you know, they were yearning for prior days, you know, that that even, you know, maybe
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I could even enforce them to admit that that the whole Bork thing had been a mistake for
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the for the left, and it just created a lot of reaction and politicization.
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And, you know, I said, look, what's amazing is not that the confirmation process is broken
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down into kind of naked politics, but that it didn't happen sooner, because what led to
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that was a development in the law schools of a theory called legal realism, which is basically,
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you know, an idea that the law doesn't have its own content.
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And, you know, once that theory is taught to a whole bunch of law students and they've
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internalized it, the fact that the confirmation process in the Senate continued in a kind of
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like collegial way for so many decades until we kind of finally hit Bork, you know, with
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some smaller historical bumps along the way is amazing, because, you know, there have been
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generations of law students who were raised on this kind of legal realism drack before
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things kind of reached a crisis point with the nomination and failed nomination and Borking
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And then, of course, Clarence Thomas, Justice Alito.
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We're looking at a court that is conservative, that's being intimidated by the left and only the
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The right does not have an equal arm like Antifa.
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It doesn't practice politics, real or otherwise, in that fashion.
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And we also don't have a legal system, a judicial system that knows how to deal with lawfare.
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This is lawfare at every level and there is no there is no countervailing influence or force
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within the the right, the conservative, the Republican Party to contend with them.
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Therefore, Mark Elias runs wild over over the Republican Party.
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He is I don't know what his record is, but it's got to be somewhere around 98 percent.
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But it's changing the whole atmosphere of American politics and the destiny of the nation
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I think that this whole phenomena of lawfare is out of control.
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I do think that the conservative side does not have either an equivalent level of defense
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or certainly the ability to go on offense in reverse, you know, and in terms of the lawfare,
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I'm facing a challenge to my bar license in the District of Columbia, which, you know,
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I think is is totally frivolous, but which, you know, continues to grind on.
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You're in a jurisdiction in which all of the judges, all of the judges are left wing.
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Well, I mean, I'd like to continue to have faith, Lou, that that justice will win out
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And, you know, I do think that it is possible to make legal points, to make, you know, factual
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points when the when the time comes to show that, you know, it's it's unfair persecution.
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It's lawfare, I think, behind, you know, I think I've been the leading edge of something
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called the 65 Project, which David Brock started, you know, who's who's kind of a practitioner
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of the dark arts of trying to, you know, stab conservatives in back alleys and then, you
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And so, you know, I think that I wish there were easy fixes, but, you know, we need a
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I think nobody's asking for an easy fix here, Jeff.
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What I'm asking for is an intelligent, an intelligent response on the part of the right
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to what is an existential issue for the for this constitutional republic.
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This is not merely, you know, this isn't, this isn't just a academic discussion.
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This isn't just a smoke filled room where politics is being waged amicably.
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Uh, this is, it is lawfare, it is street warfare, it is in your face, if either you understand
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that this is, this is the Marxist Dem party, and they mean to control the country.
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There's a unit party in the deep state that reaches over to the Democrats.
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There is not even going to be a necessity for two parties if we continue this, uh, uh, refusal, uh, this denial of what we are facing, which is a full-on assault from the left.
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I think that it is existential that when you mount an entire effort through something like
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the 65 project to try to, uh, strip lawyers, uh, who are, you know, creative and, and conservative
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of their licenses with, you know, uh, trumped up claims that, uh, they were acting unethically,
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you know, you're, you're trying to take out a kind of meta defense of the Republic, right?
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You're not having a fair fight where, uh, you know, leftists who say, Hey, we should interpret
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the constitution differently, take one position.
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And then the defenders of the classical constitution take a different, uh, you know, perspective.
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And then, you know, there, there's a, there's an adjudicated outcome.
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Instead, it's an attempt to chill lawyers on the conservative side, uh, against being
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creative, against being, uh, you know, aggressive and, and, uh, zealous in defense of their clients,
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which is the ethical principle that lawyers are, are charged with doing it's, it's trying
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to make lawyers on, you know, our side of the divide, uh, think twice before they step
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out and they challenge any kind of societal consensus or what the Democrat party is promoting.
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And, you know, if, if those chilling effects are allowed to take hold through the process
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of lawfare, then it won't be long before we won't have a Republic because basically all
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of the protections of Liberty in the constitution will be, you know, blown through or chewed through.
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And no one should want that, you know, even if, uh, someone is on the left, they should see
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the value of having a kind of, um, you know, like a dialect of exchange between each side that,
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you know, preserves, uh, Liberty and allows for some, you know, uh, evolution of the system over
00:23:46.920
time. And, uh, if instead the one side manages to achieve absolute victory and to stomp over all of
00:23:55.400
their, uh, uh, opponents, you're not going to get Liberty. You're just going to get tyranny from the left.
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And I, you know, I wish, I think there was an age in which those who, who were more to the left
00:24:07.960
understood that they understood the value of balance, but, you know, I, I think they, they've
00:24:13.420
lost that Lou and, and they just seem to want to, you know, have complete victory. And I, you know,
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even if we leave the law field for a second, just look at how America's cities are being run.
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You know, to my mind, a lot of my diagnosis of the fact that there's rampant crime, that there are
00:24:32.080
people who are fleeing, that there are people who fear to get on the New York subway, et cetera.
00:24:36.620
It's all the product of the fact that you just have long periods of, uh, of one party rule and
00:24:44.020
monopoly over, over a lot of those cities. Now, New York obviously had, uh, Rudy Giuliani for a time
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and he managed to clean things up. And, you know, then, then that, you know, when, when things swing
00:24:55.100
back to the other side, or you get a transitional figure like Bloomberg, who actually is on the left,
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but postured as if he wasn't, you know, things swing, the pendulum swings back in the, in the
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negative direction, you know, that I just, I don't see why there aren't more people who are even living
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in those cities who kind of, you know, don't wake up and say, what have we gotten for supporting this
00:25:16.860
one party for so long? We just see a deterioration in our, in our lives. We, we have to, you know,
00:25:23.140
change things. Even if we just change for change sake, maybe we'll get something different, but
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they don't seem to see it. And I think at some level, it's the same kind of dynamic that's playing
00:25:32.500
out, uh, in the legal fights as well. Yeah, it's, it's, it's interesting that you would
00:25:38.560
say all that you have, but not acknowledge at the same time that this is a war, uh, on America
00:25:47.200
from the left. This is not, uh, this is not just bad behavior on the, in, on the court,
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the courthouse steps. Uh, this is an outright gunfight, uh, for the, for this country. Uh,
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it is, it's open warfare. I do, I do see, uh, myself as a, uh, as a warrior who's engaged in that,
00:26:11.580
um, on the other side of the spectrum against those who would destroy the constitution. I just,
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I'm cautious in terms of, uh, criticizing, you know, judges or particular judges, especially
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because I'm bound by various, uh, ethical canons, um, you know, not, not to do that. Right. But,
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but I, but look, um, by the way, that's not, that's, that's not a, that's not a cannon. Uh,
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that's a gag. Uh, and if that is, if your silence is required to preserve your standing in the
00:26:44.780
profession, you're not in a profession, you're in a cult, uh, and it's, that's outrageous, uh, that if
00:26:52.720
they have the control over you, uh, why don't they have control over the lawyers at the left who seem
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to be without hesitation, uh, expressing themselves clearly, uh, about, uh, what their intentions are
00:27:06.760
and what they're doing. Uh, Merrick Garland doesn't even hesitate to say he's put a special
00:27:11.940
counsel on Trump after being in, being in Washington for two years and they can't even name the crime.
00:27:18.780
They were mentioned Mar-a-Lago, but they don't talk about Trump's crime. The fact is the crimes are
00:27:23.300
committed by the justice department. Uh, they talk, uh, I mean, this is just ridiculous what we're
00:27:30.480
watching and there is no constitutional or governmental response whatsoever. Anyway, for all
00:27:37.440
who are, uh, well, victimized by this, the entire half of the country. Uh, so we're headed toward a
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different kind of order or disorder, depending on how you look at it. Uh, with this is dangerous
00:27:53.080
stuff. Uh, this isn't going to be accepted by the right. There's not going to be any more, uh,
00:28:00.540
befuddlement and, uh, and, uh, you know, pure thought, uh, test to, uh, to see whether or not
00:28:09.020
the right will prevail. The right thing will prevail. The justice will prevail because justice is dead.
00:28:16.520
The moment we accept this condition that we're in.
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You know, I, I think Lou, we have to fight back against having a two tiered system of justice
00:28:26.880
here at the center for renewing America. Right. We, we do think that we are in a battle for,
00:28:32.920
uh, not just the heart and soul of the country, but actually for the preservation of the country.
00:28:38.820
And so, you know, we are, we are fighting hard. I don't think that, you know, we are, uh, you know,
00:28:44.460
in a, in a worldview where we think that, uh, you know, we should, uh, always, you know, play in some
00:28:50.720
kind of like genteel mode where, whereas the left is always, you know, striking, uh, any, any which
00:28:56.660
way they can, you know, I think we're, uh, looking at creative ways we're pushing back forcefully.
00:29:02.180
And, you know, I, I, I'll use the example of this, uh, this guy, you know, Glenn Kirshner who
00:29:08.940
regularly attacks me on his YouTube channel and on MSNBC, et cetera. Um, you know, this guy, I mean,
00:29:15.780
he's going around doing things like appearing with, you know, standup artists, uh, you know,
00:29:21.960
and, and I think doing something no real lawyer would do while at the same time posturing as,
00:29:27.720
look, I'm a long time former federal prosecutor. I can say whatever I want about, you know, the
00:29:32.960
criminal laws, et cetera. And yeah, I mean, you know, if there were an aggressive project on the
00:29:38.320
right, that was the mirror image of the 65 project that David Brock put together and, you know, has a
00:29:45.200
lot of, uh, dark money funding, then there would be ethics complaints filed against someone like
00:29:50.280
Glenn Kirshner. Like, how do you get off saying these things? You, you know, you're always claiming
00:29:54.700
that Trump committed X, Y, Z crime or some other person, uh, you know, you, you slander, uh, Jeff
00:30:00.920
Clark on a regular basis. Like, you know, what, what, why are you doing these things? How is that
00:30:05.720
consistent with, you know, ABC, uh, you know, uh, rule of professional responsibility, but, you know,
00:30:12.760
it seems Lou as if we don't have the same kind of level of, uh, you know, support for those kinds
00:30:19.980
of efforts that, uh, that the left mounts. And I think we need to, uh, you know, try to put together,
00:30:25.840
you know, not just a good defense, but also a good offense, because, you know, if there's a good
00:30:31.900
offense, then some of these outrageous attacks that are regularly launched, you know, maybe some of them
00:30:37.160
would be left in the crib and never actually, you know, get off the ground. Yeah. I mean, think about
00:30:43.180
this. I mean, you're a bright guy, a brilliant lawyer. Uh, and right now, uh, there, there are,
00:30:51.140
there are atmospherics that are being discussed, but getting to a concrete and specific point of
00:31:00.900
action seems absolutely unattainable by the right. Uh, because you're talking about, uh, Kirshner and
00:31:09.040
there, you know, dozens of others, uh, writing and blogging and posting and tweeting, uh, across the
00:31:16.540
country, uh, but there is no, there is no counter bailing influence and that boggles my mind. And I
00:31:25.860
know that the center for renewing America is doing great things and I, I applaud the center. And I think
00:31:31.480
you're one of those doing those things, but I am, I am so tired of watching a special counsel be
00:31:38.520
appointed by a person. Every one of us knows lied, cheated and stole an election 2020. Very simple.
00:31:47.820
By the way, he had the assistance of an act, an active attorney general by the name of William Barr.
00:31:54.760
He had the assistance of the entire intelligence community and the FBI and the department of justice
00:32:00.740
to deny the American people truth about Hunter Biden, about Joe Biden and the Biden crime
00:32:09.920
family. And that changed American history. Those are statements of fact. And that's, and that is,
00:32:17.180
to me, it just, it's incomprehensible that this country is not rallying to truth. And that is a
00:32:26.420
deeply frightening thing to me. Your thoughts. It is frightening. And, you know, obviously it comes
00:32:34.060
back to the education system. I think, you know, the, the fact that a lot of students stayed home
00:32:39.460
as a result of these COVID lockdowns revealed to parents, the rot that actually was being taught
00:32:44.920
in the, in the public schools. If you have enough of that rot, right. And now we have generations of
00:32:50.640
people who went through, you know, earlier stages of that rot. And then they went through it, you know,
00:32:56.560
first in elementary school, then in high school, and then, you know, in, in higher education, we're,
00:33:01.880
we're seeing the fruits of that. I think there are a lot of people who have woken up people in the
00:33:07.020
center who are starting to react to the, to all these problems that you identify. You know, I, I think
00:33:14.440
that for instance, you, you're raising the whole issue of the, of the special counsel, right? Well, the
00:33:19.000
regulations charge that the special counsel is supposed to be, you know, someone who, who is,
00:33:25.300
you know, impartial, neutral, and has a reputation for that. Well, you know, what's come out about
00:33:32.720
this special counsel is that, you know, he was writing internal emails and working with Lois Lerner
00:33:38.440
about how to, you know, kind of push back on and, and, you know, strip protections from the 501c3
00:33:48.380
corporations on the, on the conservative side of the equation. And, you know, part of what rigged
00:33:56.160
the 2020 election, another topic he raised was, you know, the vast injection of money, you know,
00:34:02.220
more than $400 million by Mark Zuckerberg into leftist 501c3s, like the center for tech and civic
00:34:10.300
life to create, you know, this program that's come to be called the Zuckerbucks program. Right.
00:34:16.240
And so, you know, what, is there any indication in the record that, you know, Mr. Smith investigated,
00:34:24.840
not just, you know, some new 501c3 conservative organization, you know, did he follow in the
00:34:33.900
wake of the Citizens United decision to investigate things like the, you know, center for tech and
00:34:39.520
civic life or whatever special interest it is on the left, showing that he had a kind of equal
00:34:45.100
opportunity approach to that? Like, no. And indeed, we've recently found out that his wife, Katie
00:34:51.440
Shevigny, you know, if that's how you pronounce it, that, you know, she produced a documentary
00:34:57.980
attacking the free speech decision from the Supreme Court, Citizens United. And then there are emails
00:35:04.400
from inside the Justice Department from when Smith was there at one of his prior stints, you know,
00:35:09.780
also complaining about Citizens United. So, you know, it doesn't seem like we're, we're dealing
00:35:14.700
with someone who, you know, had at least some reputation for being even handed. You know,
00:35:21.960
if you can criticize a lot of what Rod Rosenstein did, right. But just by comparison, you know,
00:35:27.260
at least he, he found someone like Mueller who one could make a claim for that he had struck
00:35:33.280
blows on, on both sides. Like I haven't, you know, I haven't seen a lot of, I can't let,
00:35:39.780
I can't let you go without reacting to that. Jeff, he was abominable. He was absolutely
00:35:47.540
witless in that entire. I agree. I agree. It was, I agree with you, but I'm, but I'm,
00:35:55.160
I'm differentiating between what one could argue he looked like on paper before he was put into
00:36:02.820
office as compared to what he actually did. Right. Like at the point at which he gets Andrew Weissman as
00:36:09.440
kind of like his number one right-hand guy, that guy has no objectivity, uh, you know, within his
00:36:15.680
body in any fiber or any bone. Um, then you realize that, you know, yeah, he, he's not going
00:36:22.100
to approach his, his duties in the proper way that the regulations envision. But I'm saying like,
00:36:27.460
I, based on what I've seen from the record of, of Mr. Smith, I don't see that he even rises to the
00:36:33.360
level of, you know, uh, what Mueller looked like on paper before he actually took office. That's the
00:36:38.500
point I'm trying to make. And, uh, and I really would just only like the reality, the truth.
00:36:45.900
I mean, this fellow, Jack Smith, is that a left-wing activist? He is exactly what, uh,
00:36:54.520
he's exactly what Andrew Weissman is. His wife is a big time donor to the Democrat party. Uh,
00:37:02.220
there is no way in the world this guy should be, uh, you know, when we talk about these,
00:37:09.340
the nominative here, uh, there's no way that Merrick Garland should be calling him impartial,
00:37:15.200
fair, and independently minded because he is none of the above. We are watching pure theater,
00:37:21.880
pure propaganda being spewed from the federal government. Disinformation. The greatest
00:37:28.620
disinformation source in this country is not Russia or China, as we've discussed, it's the U S
00:37:34.460
government. And right now the Republican party does not have even an intellectual response to what
00:37:42.760
is eating away at the soul of this country and, and destroying lives. We haven't even mentioned
00:37:48.740
the J six prisoners of war, uh, who are the captives of the federal prosecutors and corrupt
00:37:57.780
district, uh, Washington, D.C. district, uh, court system. It is appalling. Uh, a history,
00:38:06.900
historians will write their, their pages on this era and it will, we will look like fools, the fools that
00:38:14.220
we are. So Lou, uh, you know, in recent months, I've had the opportunity to meet, uh, uh, Matthew
00:38:22.860
Perna's aunt, um, Jerry. And, you know, it's just heartbreaking to hear, uh,
00:38:27.780
her story of how her nephew committed suicide based on, you know, how he was treated by the
00:38:35.380
prosecutors, right. Who are just basically trying to drive him into the worst possible deal. Um,
00:38:41.320
you know, uh, maybe one theme of our conversation today is that, uh, you know, you're, you're urging
00:38:49.080
me to take the gloves off even more than I have already, but I'll, I'll, I will harken back to one
00:38:55.140
gen deal thing, which maybe is, is, uh, you know, indication of a more gentlemanly age, which is
00:39:02.100
that on the fifth floor of the justice department in the corner where the attorney general's office
00:39:07.460
is, uh, you know, there's new deal art around, which I'm not fond of, but that's a separate, uh,
00:39:13.520
conversation. But, uh, to the door that goes to the attorney general's office, there's, uh, at the
00:39:21.100
corner of the building, you, you open the door and you go inside sort of a, uh, a wood paneled
00:39:27.340
roundabout. And then at the other end of that is the door that actually goes into the AG's, you know,
00:39:32.140
squarish office, but in the roundabout, you know, written around, uh, the top, uh, you know, in, in,
00:39:39.980
in wood letters is, uh, you know, that, that, uh, the United States wins its point in court when
00:39:46.760
justice has done its citizens. And increasingly, you know, Lou, I'm sad to report that is not the
00:39:52.820
view, uh, you know, and not the reality of what we see emerging from the justice department. And we
00:39:58.820
need to get back to an age where that happens. You know, people can have political disagreements.
00:40:04.100
People can have disagreements about how to interpret the law at the margins, but, you know,
00:40:10.380
when things devolve into the nakedly political and we're on, you know, I don't know, it depends on how
00:40:15.880
you count kind of, uh, investigation number six or 10 targeted at one person, one man, Donald Trump.
00:40:23.640
It's the idea that impartiality is what's ruling the roost is clearly, it's just, it's, it's fake.
00:40:30.480
It's an illusion. It is. And it's time for everyone to wake up to that reality and to,
00:40:37.260
and I'm not urging you to, to go into combat. I'm not urging you to take the gloves off. Uh,
00:40:43.740
but I am urging, uh, everyone listening to see clearly what is happening to us and why,
00:40:51.860
uh, our system is failing and it is failing quickly and it is near collapse. And when that happens,
00:41:00.380
the law will not protect us. Law and order will be a memory. And people have to understand
00:41:07.600
that that is a time in which there will be a response from the right. Uh, there will be,
00:41:15.980
uh, a continued assault from the left. And that is a conflict that we do not want to imagine,
00:41:22.280
let alone experience. So that's all I'm saying. And we have to know that that awaits us and we have
00:41:30.060
to do everything in our power to avoid it. You get the last word. I agree with that, uh, very much,
00:41:38.100
Lou. I, you know, you're, you're bringing to mind, I don't have the exact words in front of me,
00:41:42.260
you know, uh, uh, John Adams statement that, you know, our constitution was made for a, a moral people.
00:41:49.280
And basically at the point in which it ceases to be a moral people, the, the constitution essentially
00:41:55.400
is, is, is, is worthless. It just becomes a parchment barrier. And, uh, you know, this is not,
00:42:02.020
uh, directly connected to any of the topics that we covered today, but, but it, it comes to my mind
00:42:08.480
earlier today, my son, uh, texted to me this, you know, the, the Tucker Carlson segment about Balenciaga
00:42:16.640
with this, you know, child and, uh, you know, with a, a bear who seems to be in some kind of like,
00:42:23.480
uh, S and M suit, you know, just trying to sexualize children, you know, it, when we're
00:42:29.060
seeing more of those things, they're doing it every day. And the voice of, and I said,
00:42:34.840
you're going to the last words, I'm going to have to shut up when I finished this, but
00:42:37.600
to interject, we're watching the voice of commerce in this country, which is commercial advertising
00:42:44.320
on television. That is the voice of America. And look at what you're watching, the sexualization
00:42:50.280
of children, the, the propaganda that is spewing from the dollars that corporate America is
00:42:56.180
spending, uh, on, on Madison Avenue and media and production, Hollywood production. In many
00:43:03.660
cases, what we are watching is that we are without question, uh, deviating down in this country to
00:43:12.580
a point that is sickening. Uh, and I mean, deeply so profoundly. So, and part of the issue at hand,
00:43:20.480
uh, it's just, it's sickening your point. Yeah. It it's revolting. It's, it's depraved. I mean,
00:43:27.460
you know, I grew up in an age where, you know, the, the, the titillation was, you know, what's
00:43:33.300
Madonna wearing or not wearing on any given day or in connection with any given album or tour.
00:43:38.000
Right. But, you know, when we get to the stage where, you know, there are, there are teddy bears
00:43:43.280
wearing, uh, you know, uh, pedo and S and M outfits, and that's being sold by Madison Avenue,
00:43:49.740
you know, that you're dealing with just a very changed electorate and, and people of the United
00:43:55.880
States. So look, um, you know, one way that I've approached my, uh, dealing with my enemies and
00:44:02.200
my detractors, Lou actually is to, uh, is to pray for them because I do think that in many cases,
00:44:08.760
they're, they're under a delusion. And, you know, if they look at an ad like that and they laugh,
00:44:14.420
they're, you know, even if they're not going to go buy the product or whatever, if they laugh and they,
00:44:21.020
uh, you know, they, they, they partake in it at that level to just sort of, you know, snicker or
00:44:26.260
something like that, they're part of the problem. And, um, we, you know, we need to pray for, uh,
00:44:32.280
a restoration, um, you know, a renewal of America. Uh, and maybe that's the good place to end since
00:44:40.240
that is, you know, the organization that I'm now working for the center for renewing America. We do
00:44:44.580
want to see that kind of moral revival because it, it is not just about fighting abstract public
00:44:51.380
policy battles or legal battles, everything, uh, in the moral field undergirds that. And that's not
00:44:58.080
because any of us at the organization here are perfect, but it's because, you know, at least we
00:45:03.120
recognize that, that, um, you know, there is an almighty God and we'll have to answer him in some
00:45:09.300
day. And, and even if we have personal failings, we don't want to be part of a destruction of the
00:45:15.140
nation and a public policy. That's just part of the degradation of America, Lou.
00:45:19.600
I, I concur and I, and I sure as hell hope none of us will be standing aside, uh, when it comes
00:45:28.460
time to save this Republic. And I think the time is nigh, near as it can be. We are in a national
00:45:37.420
emergency that the country will not even recognize for so many reasons. But anyway, I, as always,
00:45:44.400
Jeff, I enjoy talking with you. Uh, it is always instructive. Uh, and these are difficult times
00:45:51.140
getting more so and doing so at, uh, an alarming, uh, alarming rate of speed. Uh, thank you so much,
00:46:00.060
Jeff. I hope you'll come back soon. Uh, Jeff Clark of the Center for Renewing America. God bless you.
00:46:06.760
Thanks, Lou. God bless you too. Jeffrey Clark, Center for Renewing America. Glad he's on the
00:46:13.080
side of truth and justice and the American way. A great American. Here tomorrow, journalist and
00:46:19.380
author Julie Kelly on the corrupt January 6th committee and what happens next now that the
00:46:26.140
Republicans are in charge of Congress. Please join us. Till then, God bless you and may God bless America.