The Great America Show - November 29, 2022


JEFFREY CLARK SAYS WE HAVE TO FIGHT LAWFARE BECAUSE THE LEFT HAS CAPTURED THE ABA AND OUR JUSTICE SYSTEM


Episode Stats


Length

46 minutes

Words per minute

156.49205

Word count

7,287

Sentence count

322

Harmful content

Misogyny

3

sentences flagged

Hate speech

4

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

Jeffrey Clark of the Center for Renewing America joins Lou Dobbs on The Great America Show to discuss Marxist Dem Corruption and Political Punishment of Donald Trump and the appointment of a special counsel to investigate the Trump administration.

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
00:00:00.000 Hello, everybody. I'm Lou Dobbs, and I hope you had a great Thanksgiving holiday. Thanks for being with us today on The Great America Show.
00:00:07.680 As the smoke begins to clear from the midterm election battlefield, it's obvious that the Republican leadership got outmaneuvered in a number of states, among them, of course, Arizona,
00:00:19.320 in which we watched the popular Republican gubernatorial candidate beaten by the unpopular and all-but-invisible Democrat candidate who just also happens to be the Secretary of State
00:00:32.200 and who oversaw the entire election in Arizona while running for the state's top office.
00:00:38.440 Now, this could just be me, but if I'm going to run for office, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't want to run against a candidate who also is in charge of counting the votes.
00:00:50.560 I mean, folks, just how smart is the Republican leadership?
00:00:54.800 Even the one bright spot in this midterm election was the fact that the Republicans regained the majority in the House of Representatives,
00:01:02.780 but have, as things stand now, only a seven-seat majority.
00:01:09.140 Usually, the party not in the White House wins, on average, 24 seats.
00:01:13.980 So they won fewer than a third that number of seats that they should have, historically.
00:01:19.740 I mean, just exactly what have the Marxist Dems done right?
00:01:24.440 How did they do so well?
00:01:26.300 We'll be taking that up here on The Great America Show for weeks to come.
00:01:30.440 And today, our guest is a great American, former top Justice Department official, Jeffrey Clark,
00:01:36.900 on the Marxist Dem corruption and political persecution of Donald Trump on top of everything else.
00:01:43.540 So back to the Republican leadership, particularly in the House of Representatives.
00:01:48.680 The Republicans agreeing to be led by a rhino,
00:01:52.300 who has not a single conservative MAGA American first credential to his name,
00:01:58.120 aside from the endorsement of Paul the Rhino-Rion.
00:02:02.260 So there is that lingering concern that Republican leaders are either too dumb or too lazy
00:02:08.100 to have much of a chance against a political party that lies, cheats, and steals with abandon.
00:02:14.360 For crying out loud, Carrie Lake, the GOP candidate for governor in Arizona, 1.00
00:02:19.140 campaigned nonstop.
00:02:20.520 She was a hard-working, energetic candidate. 0.99
00:02:23.740 Her opponent, Secretary of State Katie Hobbs, she really didn't campaign at all. 0.84
00:02:29.060 She wouldn't debate.
00:02:30.320 And guess what?
00:02:31.260 She won.
00:02:32.280 Despite not campaigning, not debating, it's almost like she sensed how the vote count would go.
00:02:38.560 Like she knew she had this thing.
00:02:41.320 I'm sure that sixth sense had nothing to do with the fact that she was in charge of counting the votes.
00:02:47.240 So let's turn now to our guest today, Jeffrey Clark of the Center for Renewing America.
00:02:53.080 And I do believe we can all agree, Jeffrey, we need some considerable renewal.
00:02:58.440 Jeffrey is a great American, former top Justice Department official.
00:03:02.360 And Jeffrey, great to have you back with us on the show.
00:03:05.080 This special counsel, it's all about raw, in-your-face partisan politics, isn't it?
00:03:10.260 So now we go to two impeachments of President Trump, now two special counsels, years of FBI investigation.
00:03:18.280 And the only lawbreakers that have been discovered in all of this in more than six years of persecution
00:03:24.300 have all been FBI agents and Department of Justice officials, and, of course, the intelligence agency's leaders.
00:03:32.300 Your thoughts?
00:03:33.080 Well, you know, Lou, I think that anything involving this whole concept of a special counsel, special prosecutor,
00:03:44.080 or before that, the independent counsel that Congress established by statute,
00:03:50.680 I think these things are all anathema to the Constitution.
00:03:53.860 I think that the framers envisioned having, you know, the president and then, you know,
00:04:02.000 whoever was going to be the head of what ultimately got named the Justice Department,
00:04:06.300 that they were the law enforcers, and there needs to be, you know, a chain,
00:04:11.220 an accountable chain that the people can point to.
00:04:13.620 And this whole idea, which is a post-Watergate, you know, reform, quote-unquote,
00:04:19.900 that you can create, like, a fourth branch of government to enforce the laws,
00:04:24.060 I think that's highly problematical.
00:04:26.480 And I think, you know, the appointment here in these circumstances just, you know,
00:04:31.720 reinforces that same historical theme for the whole time that we've had the independent counsel statute
00:04:37.800 and now the special counsel regulations at the Justice Department.
00:04:41.700 Well, you know, let's agree that it's unconstitutional.
00:04:45.020 I've got no problem with that.
00:04:45.960 And I want to blow it up if it's constitutional.
00:04:48.840 It's ignorant.
00:04:49.640 It's stupid.
00:04:50.280 It's a really bad idea, especially when you've got an administration that is corrupt from top to bottom.
00:04:58.940 There's a toxic corruption throughout the Biden administration and the executive branch,
00:05:05.840 but certainly the Department of Justice, the FBI, the intelligence community, and it goes on.
00:05:12.020 But putting any tool of government, any branch of government under the control of a corrupt puppet president is a really bad idea.
00:05:22.840 I think we can all agree on that, right?
00:05:24.740 Well, look, you know, I've spoken many times, done media appearances, and my organization,
00:05:32.620 the Center for Renewing America, has been very forceful about the fact that, you know,
00:05:37.460 we need reform of the Justice Department.
00:05:40.540 We need reform of the FBI and the intelligence community.
00:05:44.600 I mean, it really looks – I mean, how many different investigations and attacks, whether they're federal, state, or local,
00:05:54.820 and, you know, it does embrace all three, right?
00:05:57.560 We have New York State.
00:05:58.620 We have local prosecutors in New York City and in Georgia.
00:06:04.820 And we have, you know, federal ones, obviously.
00:06:07.080 How many different things can they gin up against former President Trump?
00:06:10.940 It just looks like – it's long past the stage where it looks like they're out to get one particular individual however they can.
00:06:19.340 And so what they go through is a kind of revolving door of legal theories du jour.
00:06:24.760 And if you watch, you know, what I've taken to calling kind of the, you know, pink slime on MSNBC and on YouTube and the like,
00:06:33.440 I mean, they just – whatever the latest, you know, thing is, they're always salivating about, like,
00:06:39.800 this for sure is going to be the thing that gets Trump and brings down Trump.
00:06:43.820 And they're just – they have no self-critical ability.
00:06:46.800 They don't look at what it is that they're saying.
00:06:49.060 It's just they're selling themselves to an audience that somehow has irrationally, you know,
00:06:55.140 in terms of Trump derangement syndrome, convince themselves that Trump is some kind of antichrist that, you know,
00:07:02.060 the ends justify the means on.
00:07:03.700 And it's really a perversion of the American system, Lou.
00:07:06.900 Yeah, it is a – it's a mass psychosis.
00:07:11.140 But it's also facilitated by the legal profession.
00:07:14.040 And no offense, Jeff, but the audience for this crap is not just the, you know, the opposite side
00:07:22.860 that the Republican, conservative, independents in this country know full well who Trump is
00:07:31.160 and what he represents and the fact that he is not the, you know, the public servant from hell.
00:07:38.720 He is, in point of fact, an extraordinary president.
00:07:42.020 It is the left that is, without question, evil – it's an aggregation of evildoers.
00:07:50.260 But the legal profession right now has not come forward with a solution.
00:07:55.740 And they seem to be the problem.
00:07:58.920 They really do.
00:08:00.280 Because here is a guy that has been persecuted for – we're now in the seventh year of the persecution,
00:08:06.320 the political persecution of Donald J. Trump.
00:08:10.280 There hasn't been one instance of wrongdoing proved over the course of that entire time.
00:08:17.480 And we're now talking about a second special counsel investigation, three years of FBI investigation,
00:08:23.740 separately almost two years of the first special counsel, the Mueller special counsel.
00:08:29.900 This is ignorance at a high level being practiced with just abandon by the Marxist left in this country.
00:08:39.260 Why is it the ABA, the legal profession itself, the judiciary, for crying out loud?
00:08:47.320 The Supreme Court is not saying, this will end.
00:08:51.920 Why is that so difficult for the legal profession, for the judiciary, and the head of the judiciary,
00:09:00.680 John Roberts, to say just exactly that?
00:09:03.080 We had talked, Lou, I think on our last conversation about the ABA.
00:09:09.860 I mean, I think the ABA has been captured essentially by the left for quite some time.
00:09:15.740 You know, about a century ago, it was thought to be a conservative-leaning entity.
00:09:22.420 You know, I think it was just more, you know, traditionalist and neutral.
00:09:27.300 But by, you know, today's standards, that's, you know, viewed as conservative.
00:09:32.300 Now, you know, the ABA is woke.
00:09:34.400 You can look at what its, you know, governing body, like the equivalent of a kind of House of Representatives
00:09:39.340 of the ABA do and the kinds of resolutions that they debate and adopt, that that's true.
00:09:47.320 So I don't think there's any help to be watched for from that quarter.
00:09:52.500 In terms of the judiciary, I think there's some nervousness created by the fact that President
00:09:59.780 Trump obviously was very effective in terms of, you know, seizing the powers that he had
00:10:07.640 to kind of lean into what sorts of people were nominated and confirmed to the Supreme Court.
00:10:14.940 So he got three justices and, you know, President Trump is not a lawyer and, you know, he thinks
00:10:22.980 of things, I think, in functional terms.
00:10:25.160 And so when he was hit with a whole bunch of nationwide injunctions by judges who I think
00:10:31.500 were out of control and who were, you know, forum shopped for by lots of leftist special
00:10:37.500 interest groups, you know, he responded by, you know, saying things like, you know, these
00:10:42.640 these are these are Obama or Clinton judges.
00:10:46.460 And that, you know, got Chief Justice Roberts dander up that, you know, there aren't really
00:10:51.720 supposed to be judges of particular stripes.
00:10:55.520 You know, I think.
00:10:56.000 Well, is John Roberts really that big a fool, Jeff?
00:10:58.760 I mean, seriously, is he really that big a fool?
00:11:01.620 Or does he just think the American people are fools?
00:11:04.840 Do you I mean, does he really think that the American people aren't aware that conservative
00:11:10.380 judges and liberal judges exist, activist judges and a handful, a smattering of constitutionalists,
00:11:18.400 originalists, jurists exist?
00:11:21.880 I mean, if he's really that naive or he thinks that the American people are that naive, he really
00:11:28.760 does need an intervention, don't you think?
00:11:32.940 Well, I look at Lou, I think he is a brilliant lawyer and no one could take that away from
00:11:39.340 him.
00:11:39.600 And I think, you know, I've never had a personal conversation with him ever.
00:11:44.900 But, you know, I can imagine that that maybe if, you know, you were having a personal conversation
00:11:50.560 with him, if you're a close friend or something, maybe he might acknowledge some of the points
00:11:55.600 that you made.
00:11:56.300 But look, he's the head of the Article III branch of government.
00:12:01.600 And, you know, it is important that there should be, you know, judicial neutrality at some level.
00:12:07.580 People shouldn't be in their camps committed to ideological principles.
00:12:11.680 They should be open minded.
00:12:13.560 And so I think that that publicly he has to stick up for that at some level.
00:12:19.300 And I think that, you know, kind of you don't want to take positions that sort of, you know,
00:12:27.760 force a reaction of, well, we'll demonstrate our our independence.
00:12:33.240 You know, I think there are better and more persuasive ways to approach the Supreme Court than
00:12:38.640 than to, you know, to necessarily take a combative approach to it.
00:12:44.860 Are you talking about me being combative?
00:12:46.460 Are you talking about me being combative about it?
00:12:48.600 Because I'm only beginning.
00:12:50.440 Look, I think you're I think you're you're serving your your role in our kind of, you know,
00:12:58.160 pluralistic society in criticizing the Supreme Court.
00:13:01.500 And I'm not saying the Supreme Court shouldn't be immune from criticism.
00:13:04.820 I'm just saying that that in the institutional chair where the chief justice sits, he has
00:13:10.880 to he has to he has to look at things differently.
00:13:14.660 Could I ask you, let me ask you this, Jeff, because you're making an interesting point.
00:13:18.380 And I but I think there is there are other interesting points as well.
00:13:22.240 And among those, you're saying that he should pretend to live in a world that doesn't exist.
00:13:28.160 You're saying he should pretend to live in a world perhaps those days existed.
00:13:32.280 We know they did, but it's they're long gone.
00:13:36.180 And for a judge to pretend that he is to act as if he's not aware that conservative judges
00:13:44.180 are being mobbed, their homes are being demonstrated, demonstrated, you know, Antifa, BLM are outside
00:13:52.620 on their sidewalks protesting their positions.
00:13:57.120 They're undergoing immense intimidation.
00:14:00.000 Now, John Roberts may not be having that experience, but Gorsuch, Barrett, you know, Kavanaugh,
00:14:09.780 they're they're going through that.
00:14:12.760 Yeah, I think, Lou, that that the reaction by the Supreme Court justices as a whole to that
00:14:20.180 kind of set of intimidation tactics where, you know, Justice Kavanaugh has to worry with
00:14:27.000 his family that he's going to be assassinated after the leak of the Dobbs decision, that should 1.00
00:14:31.640 be met, you know, with a lot of stern denunciation and opposition and calls for new security and
00:14:39.340 calls for for the left to renounce those kinds of tactics.
00:14:42.540 I totally agree about that.
00:14:44.680 And I also agree that, look, I remember having a justice did just I'm sorry to interrupt you,
00:14:51.320 but did Justice Roberts call for the denunciation by the left of the tactics employed by their
00:14:58.400 activist arms, Antifa, BLM and others?
00:15:03.040 Did he ask that?
00:15:04.480 He did not.
00:15:05.400 I see I seem to remember that after the Dobbs leak that, you know, he issued a statement
00:15:12.620 indicating that that would be investigated forcefully.
00:15:15.700 Obviously, we still don't know exactly where that came from, which it mystifies me that,
00:15:22.280 you know, when you have a very limited number of people who are in on exchanging drafts of
00:15:28.100 opinions and separate opinions, that they can't be nailed down.
00:15:31.740 And who was actually talking to was it Josh Gerstein or not?
00:15:37.120 But but yeah, I mean, I think that in this instance, though, that justices, you know,
00:15:43.900 know that they can rely on a lot of the people whose job it is right in the in the so-called,
00:15:49.960 you know, fourth estate right in the press to kind of carry that battle forward for them
00:15:55.860 and say this is just totally unacceptable.
00:15:57.640 What I was going to say is that, look, I had a conversation with a number of colleagues
00:16:03.480 inside the Justice Department going back to the Bush administration, and we were talking
00:16:07.740 about some of the then very contentious confirmation fights for judicial positions.
00:16:14.660 And, you know, they were yearning for prior days, you know, that that even, you know, maybe
00:16:21.060 I could even enforce them to admit that that the whole Bork thing had been a mistake for 1.00
00:16:25.380 the for the left, and it just created a lot of reaction and politicization.
00:16:30.540 And, you know, I said, look, what's amazing is not that the confirmation process is broken
00:16:35.420 down into kind of naked politics, but that it didn't happen sooner, because what led to
00:16:41.780 that was a development in the law schools of a theory called legal realism, which is basically,
00:16:48.160 you know, an idea that the law doesn't have its own content.
00:16:51.700 It's just politics by another means.
00:16:54.540 And, you know, once that theory is taught to a whole bunch of law students and they've
00:16:58.720 internalized it, the fact that the confirmation process in the Senate continued in a kind of
00:17:04.040 like collegial way for so many decades until we kind of finally hit Bork, you know, with
00:17:10.780 some smaller historical bumps along the way is amazing, because, you know, there have been
00:17:15.860 generations of law students who were raised on this kind of legal realism drack before
00:17:20.900 things kind of reached a crisis point with the nomination and failed nomination and Borking
00:17:26.300 of Judge Bork.
00:17:28.600 And then, of course, Clarence Thomas, Justice Alito.
00:17:33.040 We're looking at a court that is conservative, that's being intimidated by the left and only the
00:17:40.900 left.
00:17:41.900 The right does not have an equal arm like Antifa.
00:17:46.300 It doesn't have an arm like BLM.
00:17:49.460 It doesn't practice politics, real or otherwise, in that fashion.
00:17:55.520 And we also don't have a legal system, a judicial system that knows how to deal with lawfare.
00:18:05.960 This is lawfare at every level and there is no there is no countervailing influence or force
00:18:13.520 within the the right, the conservative, the Republican Party to contend with them.
00:18:21.400 Therefore, Mark Elias runs wild over over the Republican Party.
00:18:28.840 He is I don't know what his record is, but it's got to be somewhere around 98 percent.
00:18:33.100 And I don't think that's good for the country.
00:18:35.940 Mark Elias thinks it's lovely.
00:18:37.520 So does the left.
00:18:39.000 But it's changing the whole atmosphere of American politics and the destiny of the nation
00:18:45.700 itself, in my opinion.
00:18:47.340 Your thoughts?
00:18:48.900 I agree with that, Lou.
00:18:50.820 I think that this whole phenomena of lawfare is out of control.
00:18:54.560 I do think that the conservative side does not have either an equivalent level of defense
00:19:02.020 or certainly the ability to go on offense in reverse, you know, and in terms of the lawfare,
00:19:09.760 right?
00:19:09.960 Like I'm living through it, right?
00:19:11.760 I'm facing a challenge to my bar license in the District of Columbia, which, you know,
00:19:18.460 I think is is totally frivolous, but which, you know, continues to grind on.
00:19:23.920 And I think you're an automatic loser.
00:19:27.220 You're in a jurisdiction in which all of the judges, all of the judges are left wing.
00:19:33.860 Juries are left wing.
00:19:36.160 The system is left wing.
00:19:38.180 How do you prevail?
00:19:39.060 How do you seek justice in that in that venue?
00:19:45.100 Well, I mean, I'd like to continue to have faith, Lou, that that justice will win out
00:19:52.540 at the end of the day.
00:19:53.660 I'm still fighting.
00:19:54.700 I've been fighting for a year.
00:19:56.520 And, you know, I do think that it is possible to make legal points, to make, you know, factual
00:20:05.020 points when the when the time comes to show that, you know, it's it's unfair persecution.
00:20:11.360 It's lawfare, I think, behind, you know, I think I've been the leading edge of something
00:20:17.720 called the 65 Project, which David Brock started, you know, who's who's kind of a practitioner
00:20:24.860 of the dark arts of trying to, you know, stab conservatives in back alleys and then, you
00:20:31.580 know, see them never rise up again.
00:20:33.200 And so, you know, I think that I wish there were easy fixes, but, you know, we need a
00:20:42.860 better effort.
00:20:43.640 I think nobody's asking for an easy fix here, Jeff.
00:20:47.820 What I'm asking for is an intelligent, an intelligent response on the part of the right
00:20:53.340 to what is an existential issue for the for this constitutional republic.
00:20:59.380 This is not merely, you know, this isn't, this isn't just a academic discussion.
00:21:06.980 This isn't just a smoke filled room where politics is being waged amicably.
00:21:14.600 Uh, this is, it is lawfare, it is street warfare, it is in your face, if either you understand
00:21:24.380 that this is, this is the Marxist Dem party, and they mean to control the country.
00:21:32.600 There's a unit party in the deep state that reaches over to the Democrats.
00:21:36.300 There is not even going to be a necessity for two parties if we continue this, uh, uh, refusal, uh, this denial of what we are facing, which is a full-on assault from the left.
00:21:49.160 Lou, I, I completely agree with that.
00:21:53.540 I think that it is existential that when you mount an entire effort through something like
00:21:59.500 the 65 project to try to, uh, strip lawyers, uh, who are, you know, creative and, and conservative
00:22:06.880 of their licenses with, you know, uh, trumped up claims that, uh, they were acting unethically,
00:22:13.880 you know, you're, you're trying to take out a kind of meta defense of the Republic, right?
00:22:19.360 You're not having a fair fight where, uh, you know, leftists who say, Hey, we should interpret
00:22:24.920 the constitution differently, take one position.
00:22:27.800 And then the defenders of the classical constitution take a different, uh, you know, perspective.
00:22:33.640 And then, you know, there, there's a, there's an adjudicated outcome.
00:22:37.560 Instead, it's an attempt to chill lawyers on the conservative side, uh, against being
00:22:43.740 creative, against being, uh, you know, aggressive and, and, uh, zealous in defense of their clients,
00:22:50.260 which is the ethical principle that lawyers are, are charged with doing it's, it's trying
00:22:55.420 to make lawyers on, you know, our side of the divide, uh, think twice before they step
00:23:01.580 out and they challenge any kind of societal consensus or what the Democrat party is promoting.
00:23:08.100 And, you know, if, if those chilling effects are allowed to take hold through the process
00:23:13.480 of lawfare, then it won't be long before we won't have a Republic because basically all
00:23:18.600 of the protections of Liberty in the constitution will be, you know, blown through or chewed through.
00:23:25.240 And no one should want that, you know, even if, uh, someone is on the left, they should see
00:23:30.680 the value of having a kind of, um, you know, like a dialect of exchange between each side that,
00:23:39.160 you know, preserves, uh, Liberty and allows for some, you know, uh, evolution of the system over
00:23:46.920 time. And, uh, if instead the one side manages to achieve absolute victory and to stomp over all of
00:23:55.400 their, uh, uh, opponents, you're not going to get Liberty. You're just going to get tyranny from the left.
00:24:02.200 And I, you know, I wish, I think there was an age in which those who, who were more to the left
00:24:07.960 understood that they understood the value of balance, but, you know, I, I think they, they've
00:24:13.420 lost that Lou and, and they just seem to want to, you know, have complete victory. And I, you know,
00:24:20.060 even if we leave the law field for a second, just look at how America's cities are being run.
00:24:26.560 You know, to my mind, a lot of my diagnosis of the fact that there's rampant crime, that there are
00:24:32.080 people who are fleeing, that there are people who fear to get on the New York subway, et cetera.
00:24:36.620 It's all the product of the fact that you just have long periods of, uh, of one party rule and
00:24:44.020 monopoly over, over a lot of those cities. Now, New York obviously had, uh, Rudy Giuliani for a time
00:24:49.940 and he managed to clean things up. And, you know, then, then that, you know, when, when things swing
00:24:55.100 back to the other side, or you get a transitional figure like Bloomberg, who actually is on the left,
00:25:00.200 but postured as if he wasn't, you know, things swing, the pendulum swings back in the, in the
00:25:05.100 negative direction, you know, that I just, I don't see why there aren't more people who are even living
00:25:11.480 in those cities who kind of, you know, don't wake up and say, what have we gotten for supporting this
00:25:16.860 one party for so long? We just see a deterioration in our, in our lives. We, we have to, you know,
00:25:23.140 change things. Even if we just change for change sake, maybe we'll get something different, but
00:25:27.900 they don't seem to see it. And I think at some level, it's the same kind of dynamic that's playing
00:25:32.500 out, uh, in the legal fights as well. Yeah, it's, it's, it's interesting that you would
00:25:38.560 say all that you have, but not acknowledge at the same time that this is a war, uh, on America
00:25:47.200 from the left. This is not, uh, this is not just bad behavior on the, in, on the court,
00:25:54.720 the courthouse steps. Uh, this is an outright gunfight, uh, for the, for this country. Uh,
00:26:03.500 it is, it's open warfare. I do, I do see, uh, myself as a, uh, as a warrior who's engaged in that,
00:26:11.580 um, on the other side of the spectrum against those who would destroy the constitution. I just,
00:26:18.320 I'm cautious in terms of, uh, criticizing, you know, judges or particular judges, especially
00:26:24.420 because I'm bound by various, uh, ethical canons, um, you know, not, not to do that. Right. But,
00:26:30.460 but I, but look, um, by the way, that's not, that's, that's not a, that's not a cannon. Uh,
00:26:36.420 that's a gag. Uh, and if that is, if your silence is required to preserve your standing in the
00:26:44.780 profession, you're not in a profession, you're in a cult, uh, and it's, that's outrageous, uh, that if
00:26:52.720 they have the control over you, uh, why don't they have control over the lawyers at the left who seem
00:26:59.160 to be without hesitation, uh, expressing themselves clearly, uh, about, uh, what their intentions are
00:27:06.760 and what they're doing. Uh, Merrick Garland doesn't even hesitate to say he's put a special
00:27:11.940 counsel on Trump after being in, being in Washington for two years and they can't even name the crime.
00:27:18.780 They were mentioned Mar-a-Lago, but they don't talk about Trump's crime. The fact is the crimes are
00:27:23.300 committed by the justice department. Uh, they talk, uh, I mean, this is just ridiculous what we're
00:27:30.480 watching and there is no constitutional or governmental response whatsoever. Anyway, for all
00:27:37.440 who are, uh, well, victimized by this, the entire half of the country. Uh, so we're headed toward a
00:27:46.720 different kind of order or disorder, depending on how you look at it. Uh, with this is dangerous
00:27:53.080 stuff. Uh, this isn't going to be accepted by the right. There's not going to be any more, uh,
00:28:00.540 befuddlement and, uh, and, uh, you know, pure thought, uh, test to, uh, to see whether or not
00:28:09.020 the right will prevail. The right thing will prevail. The justice will prevail because justice is dead.
00:28:16.520 The moment we accept this condition that we're in.
00:28:19.440 You know, I, I think Lou, we have to fight back against having a two tiered system of justice
00:28:26.880 here at the center for renewing America. Right. We, we do think that we are in a battle for,
00:28:32.920 uh, not just the heart and soul of the country, but actually for the preservation of the country.
00:28:38.820 And so, you know, we are, we are fighting hard. I don't think that, you know, we are, uh, you know,
00:28:44.460 in a, in a worldview where we think that, uh, you know, we should, uh, always, you know, play in some
00:28:50.720 kind of like genteel mode where, whereas the left is always, you know, striking, uh, any, any which
00:28:56.660 way they can, you know, I think we're, uh, looking at creative ways we're pushing back forcefully.
00:29:02.180 And, you know, I, I, I'll use the example of this, uh, this guy, you know, Glenn Kirshner who
00:29:08.940 regularly attacks me on his YouTube channel and on MSNBC, et cetera. Um, you know, this guy, I mean,
00:29:15.780 he's going around doing things like appearing with, you know, standup artists, uh, you know,
00:29:21.960 and, and I think doing something no real lawyer would do while at the same time posturing as,
00:29:27.720 look, I'm a long time former federal prosecutor. I can say whatever I want about, you know, the
00:29:32.960 criminal laws, et cetera. And yeah, I mean, you know, if there were an aggressive project on the
00:29:38.320 right, that was the mirror image of the 65 project that David Brock put together and, you know, has a
00:29:45.200 lot of, uh, dark money funding, then there would be ethics complaints filed against someone like
00:29:50.280 Glenn Kirshner. Like, how do you get off saying these things? You, you know, you're always claiming
00:29:54.700 that Trump committed X, Y, Z crime or some other person, uh, you know, you, you slander, uh, Jeff
00:30:00.920 Clark on a regular basis. Like, you know, what, what, why are you doing these things? How is that
00:30:05.720 consistent with, you know, ABC, uh, you know, uh, rule of professional responsibility, but, you know,
00:30:12.760 it seems Lou as if we don't have the same kind of level of, uh, you know, support for those kinds
00:30:19.980 of efforts that, uh, that the left mounts. And I think we need to, uh, you know, try to put together,
00:30:25.840 you know, not just a good defense, but also a good offense, because, you know, if there's a good
00:30:31.900 offense, then some of these outrageous attacks that are regularly launched, you know, maybe some of them
00:30:37.160 would be left in the crib and never actually, you know, get off the ground. Yeah. I mean, think about
00:30:43.180 this. I mean, you're a bright guy, a brilliant lawyer. Uh, and right now, uh, there, there are,
00:30:51.140 there are atmospherics that are being discussed, but getting to a concrete and specific point of
00:31:00.900 action seems absolutely unattainable by the right. Uh, because you're talking about, uh, Kirshner and
00:31:09.040 there, you know, dozens of others, uh, writing and blogging and posting and tweeting, uh, across the
00:31:16.540 country, uh, but there is no, there is no counter bailing influence and that boggles my mind. And I
00:31:25.860 know that the center for renewing America is doing great things and I, I applaud the center. And I think
00:31:31.480 you're one of those doing those things, but I am, I am so tired of watching a special counsel be
00:31:38.520 appointed by a person. Every one of us knows lied, cheated and stole an election 2020. Very simple.
00:31:47.820 By the way, he had the assistance of an act, an active attorney general by the name of William Barr.
00:31:54.760 He had the assistance of the entire intelligence community and the FBI and the department of justice
00:32:00.740 to deny the American people truth about Hunter Biden, about Joe Biden and the Biden crime
00:32:09.920 family. And that changed American history. Those are statements of fact. And that's, and that is,
00:32:17.180 to me, it just, it's incomprehensible that this country is not rallying to truth. And that is a
00:32:26.420 deeply frightening thing to me. Your thoughts. It is frightening. And, you know, obviously it comes
00:32:34.060 back to the education system. I think, you know, the, the fact that a lot of students stayed home
00:32:39.460 as a result of these COVID lockdowns revealed to parents, the rot that actually was being taught
00:32:44.920 in the, in the public schools. If you have enough of that rot, right. And now we have generations of
00:32:50.640 people who went through, you know, earlier stages of that rot. And then they went through it, you know,
00:32:56.560 first in elementary school, then in high school, and then, you know, in, in higher education, we're,
00:33:01.880 we're seeing the fruits of that. I think there are a lot of people who have woken up people in the
00:33:07.020 center who are starting to react to the, to all these problems that you identify. You know, I, I think
00:33:14.440 that for instance, you, you're raising the whole issue of the, of the special counsel, right? Well, the
00:33:19.000 regulations charge that the special counsel is supposed to be, you know, someone who, who is,
00:33:25.300 you know, impartial, neutral, and has a reputation for that. Well, you know, what's come out about
00:33:32.720 this special counsel is that, you know, he was writing internal emails and working with Lois Lerner
00:33:38.440 about how to, you know, kind of push back on and, and, you know, strip protections from the 501c3
00:33:48.380 corporations on the, on the conservative side of the equation. And, you know, part of what rigged
00:33:56.160 the 2020 election, another topic he raised was, you know, the vast injection of money, you know,
00:34:02.220 more than $400 million by Mark Zuckerberg into leftist 501c3s, like the center for tech and civic
00:34:10.300 life to create, you know, this program that's come to be called the Zuckerbucks program. Right.
00:34:16.240 And so, you know, what, is there any indication in the record that, you know, Mr. Smith investigated,
00:34:24.840 not just, you know, some new 501c3 conservative organization, you know, did he follow in the
00:34:33.900 wake of the Citizens United decision to investigate things like the, you know, center for tech and
00:34:39.520 civic life or whatever special interest it is on the left, showing that he had a kind of equal
00:34:45.100 opportunity approach to that? Like, no. And indeed, we've recently found out that his wife, Katie
00:34:51.440 Shevigny, you know, if that's how you pronounce it, that, you know, she produced a documentary
00:34:57.980 attacking the free speech decision from the Supreme Court, Citizens United. And then there are emails
00:35:04.400 from inside the Justice Department from when Smith was there at one of his prior stints, you know,
00:35:09.780 also complaining about Citizens United. So, you know, it doesn't seem like we're, we're dealing
00:35:14.700 with someone who, you know, had at least some reputation for being even handed. You know,
00:35:21.960 if you can criticize a lot of what Rod Rosenstein did, right. But just by comparison, you know,
00:35:27.260 at least he, he found someone like Mueller who one could make a claim for that he had struck
00:35:33.280 blows on, on both sides. Like I haven't, you know, I haven't seen a lot of, I can't let,
00:35:39.780 I can't let you go without reacting to that. Jeff, he was abominable. He was absolutely
00:35:47.540 witless in that entire. I agree. I agree. It was, I agree with you, but I'm, but I'm,
00:35:55.160 I'm differentiating between what one could argue he looked like on paper before he was put into
00:36:02.820 office as compared to what he actually did. Right. Like at the point at which he gets Andrew Weissman as
00:36:09.440 kind of like his number one right-hand guy, that guy has no objectivity, uh, you know, within his
00:36:15.680 body in any fiber or any bone. Um, then you realize that, you know, yeah, he, he's not going
00:36:22.100 to approach his, his duties in the proper way that the regulations envision. But I'm saying like,
00:36:27.460 I, based on what I've seen from the record of, of Mr. Smith, I don't see that he even rises to the
00:36:33.360 level of, you know, uh, what Mueller looked like on paper before he actually took office. That's the
00:36:38.500 point I'm trying to make. And, uh, and I really would just only like the reality, the truth.
00:36:45.900 I mean, this fellow, Jack Smith, is that a left-wing activist? He is exactly what, uh,
00:36:54.520 he's exactly what Andrew Weissman is. His wife is a big time donor to the Democrat party. Uh,
00:37:02.220 there is no way in the world this guy should be, uh, you know, when we talk about these,
00:37:09.340 the nominative here, uh, there's no way that Merrick Garland should be calling him impartial,
00:37:15.200 fair, and independently minded because he is none of the above. We are watching pure theater,
00:37:21.880 pure propaganda being spewed from the federal government. Disinformation. The greatest
00:37:28.620 disinformation source in this country is not Russia or China, as we've discussed, it's the U S
00:37:34.460 government. And right now the Republican party does not have even an intellectual response to what
00:37:42.760 is eating away at the soul of this country and, and destroying lives. We haven't even mentioned
00:37:48.740 the J six prisoners of war, uh, who are the captives of the federal prosecutors and corrupt 0.93
00:37:57.780 district, uh, Washington, D.C. district, uh, court system. It is appalling. Uh, a history,
00:38:06.900 historians will write their, their pages on this era and it will, we will look like fools, the fools that
00:38:14.220 we are. So Lou, uh, you know, in recent months, I've had the opportunity to meet, uh, uh, Matthew
00:38:22.860 Perna's aunt, um, Jerry. And, you know, it's just heartbreaking to hear, uh,
00:38:27.780 her story of how her nephew committed suicide based on, you know, how he was treated by the
00:38:35.380 prosecutors, right. Who are just basically trying to drive him into the worst possible deal. Um,
00:38:41.320 you know, uh, maybe one theme of our conversation today is that, uh, you know, you're, you're urging
00:38:49.080 me to take the gloves off even more than I have already, but I'll, I'll, I will harken back to one
00:38:55.140 gen deal thing, which maybe is, is, uh, you know, indication of a more gentlemanly age, which is
00:39:02.100 that on the fifth floor of the justice department in the corner where the attorney general's office
00:39:07.460 is, uh, you know, there's new deal art around, which I'm not fond of, but that's a separate, uh,
00:39:13.520 conversation. But, uh, to the door that goes to the attorney general's office, there's, uh, at the
00:39:21.100 corner of the building, you, you open the door and you go inside sort of a, uh, a wood paneled
00:39:27.340 roundabout. And then at the other end of that is the door that actually goes into the AG's, you know,
00:39:32.140 squarish office, but in the roundabout, you know, written around, uh, the top, uh, you know, in, in,
00:39:39.980 in wood letters is, uh, you know, that, that, uh, the United States wins its point in court when
00:39:46.760 justice has done its citizens. And increasingly, you know, Lou, I'm sad to report that is not the
00:39:52.820 view, uh, you know, and not the reality of what we see emerging from the justice department. And we
00:39:58.820 need to get back to an age where that happens. You know, people can have political disagreements.
00:40:04.100 People can have disagreements about how to interpret the law at the margins, but, you know,
00:40:10.380 when things devolve into the nakedly political and we're on, you know, I don't know, it depends on how
00:40:15.880 you count kind of, uh, investigation number six or 10 targeted at one person, one man, Donald Trump.
00:40:23.640 It's the idea that impartiality is what's ruling the roost is clearly, it's just, it's, it's fake.
00:40:30.480 It's an illusion. It is. And it's time for everyone to wake up to that reality and to,
00:40:37.260 and I'm not urging you to, to go into combat. I'm not urging you to take the gloves off. Uh,
00:40:43.740 but I am urging, uh, everyone listening to see clearly what is happening to us and why,
00:40:51.860 uh, our system is failing and it is failing quickly and it is near collapse. And when that happens,
00:41:00.380 the law will not protect us. Law and order will be a memory. And people have to understand
00:41:07.600 that that is a time in which there will be a response from the right. Uh, there will be,
00:41:15.980 uh, a continued assault from the left. And that is a conflict that we do not want to imagine,
00:41:22.280 let alone experience. So that's all I'm saying. And we have to know that that awaits us and we have
00:41:30.060 to do everything in our power to avoid it. You get the last word. I agree with that, uh, very much,
00:41:38.100 Lou. I, you know, you're, you're bringing to mind, I don't have the exact words in front of me,
00:41:42.260 you know, uh, uh, John Adams statement that, you know, our constitution was made for a, a moral people.
00:41:49.280 And basically at the point in which it ceases to be a moral people, the, the constitution essentially
00:41:55.400 is, is, is, is worthless. It just becomes a parchment barrier. And, uh, you know, this is not,
00:42:02.020 uh, directly connected to any of the topics that we covered today, but, but it, it comes to my mind
00:42:08.480 earlier today, my son, uh, texted to me this, you know, the, the Tucker Carlson segment about Balenciaga
00:42:16.640 with this, you know, child and, uh, you know, with a, a bear who seems to be in some kind of like,
00:42:23.480 uh, S and M suit, you know, just trying to sexualize children, you know, it, when we're 0.99
00:42:29.060 seeing more of those things, they're doing it every day. And the voice of, and I said,
00:42:34.840 you're going to the last words, I'm going to have to shut up when I finished this, but
00:42:37.600 to interject, we're watching the voice of commerce in this country, which is commercial advertising
00:42:44.320 on television. That is the voice of America. And look at what you're watching, the sexualization
00:42:50.280 of children, the, the propaganda that is spewing from the dollars that corporate America is
00:42:56.180 spending, uh, on, on Madison Avenue and media and production, Hollywood production. In many
00:43:03.660 cases, what we are watching is that we are without question, uh, deviating down in this country to
00:43:12.580 a point that is sickening. Uh, and I mean, deeply so profoundly. So, and part of the issue at hand,
00:43:20.480 uh, it's just, it's sickening your point. Yeah. It it's revolting. It's, it's depraved. I mean,
00:43:27.460 you know, I grew up in an age where, you know, the, the, the titillation was, you know, what's
00:43:33.300 Madonna wearing or not wearing on any given day or in connection with any given album or tour.
00:43:38.000 Right. But, you know, when we get to the stage where, you know, there are, there are teddy bears
00:43:43.280 wearing, uh, you know, uh, pedo and S and M outfits, and that's being sold by Madison Avenue,
00:43:49.740 you know, that you're dealing with just a very changed electorate and, and people of the United
00:43:55.880 States. So look, um, you know, one way that I've approached my, uh, dealing with my enemies and
00:44:02.200 my detractors, Lou actually is to, uh, is to pray for them because I do think that in many cases,
00:44:08.760 they're, they're under a delusion. And, you know, if they look at an ad like that and they laugh,
00:44:14.420 they're, you know, even if they're not going to go buy the product or whatever, if they laugh and they,
00:44:21.020 uh, you know, they, they, they partake in it at that level to just sort of, you know, snicker or
00:44:26.260 something like that, they're part of the problem. And, um, we, you know, we need to pray for, uh,
00:44:32.280 a restoration, um, you know, a renewal of America. Uh, and maybe that's the good place to end since
00:44:40.240 that is, you know, the organization that I'm now working for the center for renewing America. We do
00:44:44.580 want to see that kind of moral revival because it, it is not just about fighting abstract public
00:44:51.380 policy battles or legal battles, everything, uh, in the moral field undergirds that. And that's not
00:44:58.080 because any of us at the organization here are perfect, but it's because, you know, at least we
00:45:03.120 recognize that, that, um, you know, there is an almighty God and we'll have to answer him in some
00:45:09.300 day. And, and even if we have personal failings, we don't want to be part of a destruction of the
00:45:15.140 nation and a public policy. That's just part of the degradation of America, Lou.
00:45:19.600 I, I concur and I, and I sure as hell hope none of us will be standing aside, uh, when it comes
00:45:28.460 time to save this Republic. And I think the time is nigh, near as it can be. We are in a national
00:45:37.420 emergency that the country will not even recognize for so many reasons. But anyway, I, as always,
00:45:44.400 Jeff, I enjoy talking with you. Uh, it is always instructive. Uh, and these are difficult times
00:45:51.140 getting more so and doing so at, uh, an alarming, uh, alarming rate of speed. Uh, thank you so much,
00:46:00.060 Jeff. I hope you'll come back soon. Uh, Jeff Clark of the Center for Renewing America. God bless you.
00:46:06.760 Thanks, Lou. God bless you too. Jeffrey Clark, Center for Renewing America. Glad he's on the
00:46:13.080 side of truth and justice and the American way. A great American. Here tomorrow, journalist and
00:46:19.380 author Julie Kelly on the corrupt January 6th committee and what happens next now that the
00:46:26.140 Republicans are in charge of Congress. Please join us. Till then, God bless you and may God bless America.