JORDAN DEMANDS 702 RESPECT CIVIL RIGHTS
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Summary
FISA surveillance program expires at the end of the month, and the FBI Director Christopher Wray is fighting to keep it in place. Meanwhile, special counsel for President Trump s Russia investigation has been shut down by a federal judge.
Transcript
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Hello everybody. I'm Lou Dimes. Welcome to the Great America Show. Thanks for being with us. Glad
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to have you here. FBI Director Christopher Wray up on Capitol Hill yesterday begging for the renewal
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of the FISA 702 surveillance program set to expire at the end of this month. It's part of the same
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warrantless surveillance program that was used to spy on President Trump's 2016 campaign. Wray in his
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opening remarks said that if the Section 702 were not kept in place the way it exists, it could be
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detrimental to the national security. And not only that, more people would die from fentanyl. Here's
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Wray. And what if there were a terrorist attack that we had a shot to prevent but couldn't take it
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because the FBI was deprived of its ability under 702 to actually look at key information already
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sitting in our holdings. Now I was in FBI headquarters 22 years ago on 9-11 and over the years I've spoken
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with families of victims of that horrific attack. Before that attack, well-intentioned policymakers had made
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the choice to build a wall preventing access to national security information sitting in our and our
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partners holdings. Well, I bring that up because allowing 702 to lapse or amending it in a way that
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undermines its effectiveness would be akin to laying bricks to rebuild another pre-9-11 style wall.
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What could anybody possibly say to victims' families if there was another attack that we could have
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prevented if we hadn't given away the ability to effectively use a tool that courts have consistently
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deemed constitutional? Because let's not fool ourselves, that's what's at stake with the reauthorization
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of 702. As the threats from foreign adversaries to our homeland continue to evolve, the agility
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and effectiveness of 702 will be essential to the FBI's ability, really our mandate from the American
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people to keep them safe for years to come. You know, I would love to see the statistics on how many
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terrorist attacks the program has prevented versus how many innocent Americans have been spied upon.
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just for the heck of it, whether because of their faith or their conservative politics.
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Something tells me it wouldn't be good for the ordinary American. In just moments, we'll be
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joined by chairman of the House Judiciary Committee, Congressman Jim Jordan. He's co-sponsored
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legislation that completely overhauls the 702 section and the Pfizer program. He joins us with the
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latest, but first a little more politics. Junkyard Jackal Special Counsel Jack Smith, shut down by the
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Florida federal judge for trying to withhold more evidence from President Trump. Judge Eileen Cannon
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denied Smith's request to keep some documents hidden in the classified documents case against President
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Trump. Last month, Jack Smith's attorneys asked Judge Cannon to keep documents under seal because he said
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they were considered highly sensitive classified information. It turns out they weren't. Judge Cannon
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wanted no part of Smith's sleazy behavior and instead, Monday, Cannon ordered the unsealing of those
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documents, making them available to the public. In a ruling, Judge Cannon said she was mindful of the
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strong presumption in favor of public access to judicial documents. She concluded that Smith had not
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provided, quote, sufficient justification for his filing because the motions did not contain or otherwise
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reveal classified information. Good for Judge Cannon. Smith has been caught time and time again using
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deceptive and unethical tactics. Judge Cannon, so far, has shown herself to be fair and impartial. A stark contrast
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to the Marxist Dem judge that President Trump faces in almost every other jurisdiction but Georgia,
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where federal judge Amy Totenberg has been both fair and forthright. Hunter Biden's special counsel,
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David Weiss, has rejected, some would be surprised to learn, rejected Hunter's demand to subpoena President
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Trump and former Attorney General Bill Barr. The special counsel saying it was meritless. Hunter's
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attorney, Abby Lowell, argued last month that the investigation into the president's son arose only
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due to, quote, incessant improper and partisan pressure during the Trump administration. There's
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some problems with that, like the calendar. Weiss shot down the demand, saying, quote, not only does
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defendant's motion fail to identify any actual evidence of bias, vindictiveness, or discriminatory intent
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on the special counsel's part. His arguments ignore an inconvenient truth. No charges were brought
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against the defendant during the previous administration when the subpoena recipients
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actually held office in the executive branch, end quote. Hunter and his attorney have to be embarrassed,
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but they don't also seem to be the smartest fellows. All they might have considered was just reading a
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calendar before further embarrassing themselves in court. Our guest today, as promised, is House
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Judiciary Committee Chairman Jim Jordan. Mr. Chairman, great to have you with us here. I want to begin
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with FBI Director Chris Wray on Capitol Hill this week, begging for the renewal of FISA and the Section 702
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with no changes to either. Your thoughts? Well, Lou, thanks. I'm going to be with you. We're going to mark up
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a bill tomorrow in Judiciary Committee that we think has the right kind of reforms. And frankly,
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the biggest reform is if you're going to use American identifiers, American citizen, their phone
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number, their email address to query this database that the FBI has, we think you should go to the
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court and get a warrant. That's how our system works, a probable cause warrant. And that's kind of
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probably the key thing we have in our legislation that is different from what we currently have. Now,
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there are also a number of reforms to the 702 program itself and reforms to the broader FISA
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where there was all the abuse that we've talked about for years relative to, you know, them spying
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on President Trump's campaign, what they did to Michael Flynn and Carter Page. So we got reforms to
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those, that part of the FISA law as well. We think we've got a good bill. We think it's going to come
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out with a strong bipartisan vote tomorrow out of the Judiciary Committee.
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I want to, I want to go through that if we may, but first I want to turn to some of the comments
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that were made by various senators to, to primarily regarding Christopher Wray and his responses going
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through going back to, as you know, 2021, we were talking about almost three and a half million
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data queries and searches. A third of which were mistakes is acknowledged by the intelligence agencies,
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the FBI in particular. And then the next year is somehow it got down to about a quarter of a million.
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We, we have seen nothing in my judgment that makes me trust in this department of justice,
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this FBI, the leaders of those, that agency and that department. It's just, I don't know how you
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can do good business with bad people is what I'm saying. Well, no, good point. And I think that's,
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that's the reason we got to have the measures in the, in, in the law that we're bringing forward in the
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committee because you're right. The broader context, this is the same FBI that spied on
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president Trump's campaign. This is the same FBI that the fifth circuit found censored Americans
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first amendment free speech rights. This is the same FBI that raided Mark Howell's home, arrested
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in front of his wife and seven children. And we're now supposed to say, oh, we're, we're, we're just
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going to go long business as usual. Like no way. Oh, and by the way, this is the same FBI that,
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this is the same FBI that has done all kinds of 278,000 times that queried the database and didn't
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follow their own rules that they took to the FISA court. The FISA court said, yeah, follow those
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rules. 278,000 times they didn't follow their own rules. So that's why we need the reforms.
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And Senator Mike Lee today, I mean, he excoriated Christopher Wray and, and he was almost singular
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amongst those on the judiciary of the Senate, the judiciary committee of the Senate. I have a
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feeling that there is a great enthusiasm on the part of the senators to move forward. I'll put it
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this way with far less regimen than you are, you're prescribing here. Well, I mean, we'll see what I,
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what I know is what we're going to mark up tomorrow, I think is a good deal. And I think it'll come out of
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a committee with strong bipartisan support. I think it frankly will have, will have strong
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bipartisan support in the house because even the Democrats understand that, you know, we're talking
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about your privacy rights and your, and your, your first member rights, they, they've seen the abuse.
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So I think we're going to get help there. And that's, that's what we need to focus on is,
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and this is something we've been building for Republicans on the judiciary committee. We've been
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building for all year. We said, look, in the end, where we can make a difference and have an impact
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is on this Pfizer reauthorization. And we plan to stand firm on these, these reforms and these
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changes. These reforms, let's talk about what you mentioned, the fundamental act itself and the
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way in which it was abused, you know, job shop, judge shopping, actually getting by judges, lying to
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judges. Uh, the judges seemed absolutely inert, uh, and certainly incapable of standing, uh, standing
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up for the principles of the law that they're supposed to be enforcing. Yeah, it makes, I think
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it makes everyone, uh, um, like I say, the framework is this is the FBI who's abused so many things
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and including the main Pfizer program, um, that, that is, this is why we think we need to,
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some of the reforms we have in there, Lou, are like, uh, making sure that you, um, you can,
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you can have someone in there to see the court proceeding, someone from the judiciary committee,
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um, the, the, making sure that, that it's, there's penalties if you take false information
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or you don't bring exculpatory information in front of the courts, like they did with
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President Trump when they were spying on his campaign. Real penalties if you did what Kevin
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Clinesmith did, was one of the lawyers of the Justice Department who lied to the FISA court
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regarding the whole Trump spying escapade. So those are the kinds of things that we think
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make sense, uh, for that part of the FISA law. And then of course, as I said, we're also working
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on the 70C program. We'll be right back with Congressman Jim Jordan, chairman of the House
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Judiciary Committee. We're talking about intel, uh, the constitution and the rights of American
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citizens as we understand them today. We'll be right back. Stay with us.
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We're back down with chairman Jim Jordan. And, uh, Mr. Chairman, let's turn to, to the basic,
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uh, reforms that you're talking about in the law itself, uh, in of which, uh, section 702 is a
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important and controversial part. Uh, how, how are you contemplating changing, uh, the law itself
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so that, uh, American citizens right to privacy, uh, and freedom from, uh, surveillance and,
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and outright spying by our government, uh, is diminished or eliminated?
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Well, uh, on this, on the 702 program, and again, understand what, what, for your, for your viewers
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and listeners that this is where our government is, is getting information from foreigners, but they pick
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up some information on, on, on American citizens. We're saying if you're going to go search that
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database and you're going to use one of the identifiers of an American citizen, like I said,
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their phone number, their email address or something, then you have to go to a court and
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get a warrant before you do that. Um, we also say that only, only certain people are able to search
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that database. Uh, we had found that there were, there were thousands of people at the FBI, we were
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told who had access and were able to search. That's probably one of the reasons they had the 278,000
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in times that they violated the rules. So, um, we've limited the number of people who can actually
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also then do the search. So all those are designed to protect Americans' freedoms. And then, as we
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said, we got a lot of other reforms in the bill related to sort of what I call the main FISA, where
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you go to the court to get a warrant at the FISA court to spy on a, um, an American citizen, and you
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got to have probable cause in front of the court. But what we want to, what we want to do, because it's a
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secret court, we want it to be less secret. We want certain reports, certain audits, certain
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penalties. If you do things wrong, if you lie to the court, if you don't give exculpatory
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information to the court, that's, that's what we have in our, in our bill, which we think is the
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kind of safeguards you need to protect the constitution and protect Americans' liberties.
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You know, Mr. Chairman, as I, as I listened to you, I'm thinking back to the latter days of the
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Obama administration and approaching the Trump administration, the unmasking, everyone from
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crying out loud, the Biden ambassador to the United Nations, to the vice president, unmasking
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Well, in the end, the best check on that kind of abuse is to have a different president.
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And it's why I'm 110% in favor of President Trump being our next president and not have,
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and then have the right kind of people at the Justice Department, the right kind of people
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running these federal agencies that actually respect the constitution, respect the bill of
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rights and respect the American people who they're supposed to serve, not target, not be
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weaponized against the American bill, but serve the American people. That is the ultimate check in
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the end. And it's why, you know, we talk about this all the time, but it's why, you know,
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these elections are all important, but this one coming up is really darn important,
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particularly when we see what the Biden administration is doing.
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Yeah, I couldn't agree with you more about the urgency, the importance and the
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existential nature of this, the 2024 presidential election. I think the outcome determines the
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future of this republic and the fortunes for all of us.
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Yeah, again, it starts from the top. Real leadership starts from the top, as you know
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well. And it's why you have to have a commander in chief who is respected, who can put in the
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right kind of people in these agencies. And frankly, this is not directly on the question,
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but the respect and the strength projected from the Oval Office communicates so much,
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particularly when you think about foreign policy. I would argue this is one of the reasons
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that, you know, we've got some of the messes that are going around the world is because of
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because of, you know, Joe Biden projects weakness. But a strong commander in chief who puts the right
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people in charge of the justice party, you've got to have the right attorney general, you've got to
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have the right person around the Department of Homeland Security. And all these key agencies
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is critical. And then frankly, I think if and when President Trump wins, which I think is going to
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happen, I think I said this before, he should fire everyone he's allowed to fire and then probably
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fire a few people he's not allowed to and make just to make them sue him so that we send a message.
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No, the bureaucracy is changing under the leadership of President Trump.
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Mr. Chairman, let me ask you this. What would happen if you all decided ultimately
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the will of the people exerted that you're not going to reauthorize 702, the FISA bill,
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Well, it's an interesting question because I'm not against reauthorizing. I just want it done the right
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way. But it sort of begs the fundamental question, I think, this is what underlies your question is,
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aren't we allowed to spy on foreigners right now? Right? Whether that's, you know, you can,
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the intelligence community can spy on, in fact, that's what we want them to do. What we're concerned
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about is when they gather information that has American identifiers and information in it,
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then going in and looking at Americans' information without getting a probable cause warrant.
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So I don't know if there's an easy answer to that question. And I'm not opposed to having 702
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reauthorized. What I'm opposed to is doing it in a way that doesn't protect Americans' civil liberties.
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And that's been the sole focus of certainly Republicans on the Judiciary Committee and a lot
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of other Republicans in the Congress. And Democrats, frankly, some Democrats as well.
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Well, we thank you for doing that. Let me ask you one last question here.
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The impeachment inquiry, a vote to formalize, certify, and move ahead with the impeachment process.
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Yeah, I think that happens soon. I really do. And as I've said many times, I did a presentation for
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the conference last week. A group of us did. I think the evidence is already compelling
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when you think about, you know, this story really, Lou, is as old as the hills. It's a politician
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does certain things. Those actions then benefit his family. And then third, there's an effort to
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sweep it all under the rug and conceal it. And that seems to me what's played out, particularly when
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you think about the Biden's involvement with this Ukrainian energy company, Burisma. And then the
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concealment part is, it seems to me, when you look at how David Weiss ran this investigation
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into Hunter Biden. So we have a compelling case, I think, right now. But, you know, we want to get
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all the information, all the facts. So I do think there will be a vote. And I think it'll pass to
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in a formal impeachment inquiry, where you have a vote of the House backing it up, not just with
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not just a statement from the Speaker. And how soon do you think it'll happen?
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I think it happens here in the next week. Sometime within the next week. And maybe not this,
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maybe not maybe not here in the next couple of days. But, you know, sometime between this week
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or next week, I think it happens. Congressman, we know you're busy as all get out, as always.
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And we thank you for your time. Chairman Jim Jordan, God bless you.
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Thanks, Chairman Jordan. Thanks, everybody, for joining us today. Our guests here on The Great
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America Show this week include Congressman Andy Biggs, John Solomon, Gordon Chang, and Kyle
00:19:59.400
Rittenhouse. Please join us each and every day on The Great America Show. Follow me on Twitter
00:20:04.840
and Truth Social, at Lou Dobbs, and on Facebook and Instagram at Lou Dobbs Tonight, and check
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out loudobbs.com. Thanks, everybody. God bless you, and may God bless America.