The Great America Show - JORDAN DEMANDS 702 RESPECT CIVIL RIGHTS

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00:01:18.340 Hello everybody. I'm Lou Dimes. Welcome to the Great America Show. Thanks for being with us. Glad

00:01:22.840 to have you here. FBI Director Christopher Wray up on Capitol Hill yesterday begging for the renewal

00:01:29.220 of the FISA 702 surveillance program set to expire at the end of this month. It's part of the same

00:01:36.580 warrantless surveillance program that was used to spy on President Trump's 2016 campaign. Wray in his

00:01:44.160 opening remarks said that if the Section 702 were not kept in place the way it exists, it could be

00:01:51.040 detrimental to the national security. And not only that, more people would die from fentanyl. Here's

00:01:57.460 Wray. And what if there were a terrorist attack that we had a shot to prevent but couldn't take it

00:02:03.360 because the FBI was deprived of its ability under 702 to actually look at key information already

00:02:10.980 sitting in our holdings. Now I was in FBI headquarters 22 years ago on 9-11 and over the years I've spoken

00:02:21.380 with families of victims of that horrific attack. Before that attack, well-intentioned policymakers had made

00:02:31.300 the choice to build a wall preventing access to national security information sitting in our and our

00:02:39.860 partners holdings. Well, I bring that up because allowing 702 to lapse or amending it in a way that

00:02:47.620 undermines its effectiveness would be akin to laying bricks to rebuild another pre-9-11 style wall.

00:02:56.100 What could anybody possibly say to victims' families if there was another attack that we could have

00:03:02.900 prevented if we hadn't given away the ability to effectively use a tool that courts have consistently

00:03:11.240 deemed constitutional? Because let's not fool ourselves, that's what's at stake with the reauthorization

00:03:19.620 of 702. As the threats from foreign adversaries to our homeland continue to evolve, the agility

00:03:28.260 and effectiveness of 702 will be essential to the FBI's ability, really our mandate from the American

00:03:37.060 people to keep them safe for years to come. You know, I would love to see the statistics on how many

00:03:43.980 terrorist attacks the program has prevented versus how many innocent Americans have been spied upon.

00:03:49.600 just for the heck of it, whether because of their faith or their conservative politics.

00:03:55.060 Something tells me it wouldn't be good for the ordinary American. In just moments, we'll be

00:04:00.140 joined by chairman of the House Judiciary Committee, Congressman Jim Jordan. He's co-sponsored

00:04:05.480 legislation that completely overhauls the 702 section and the Pfizer program. He joins us with the

00:04:12.440 latest, but first a little more politics. Junkyard Jackal Special Counsel Jack Smith, shut down by the

00:04:19.340 Florida federal judge for trying to withhold more evidence from President Trump. Judge Eileen Cannon

00:04:26.300 denied Smith's request to keep some documents hidden in the classified documents case against President

00:04:32.740 Trump. Last month, Jack Smith's attorneys asked Judge Cannon to keep documents under seal because he said

00:04:40.560 they were considered highly sensitive classified information. It turns out they weren't. Judge Cannon

00:04:47.840 wanted no part of Smith's sleazy behavior and instead, Monday, Cannon ordered the unsealing of those

00:04:53.880 documents, making them available to the public. In a ruling, Judge Cannon said she was mindful of the

00:05:00.300 strong presumption in favor of public access to judicial documents. She concluded that Smith had not

00:05:06.900 provided, quote, sufficient justification for his filing because the motions did not contain or otherwise

00:05:13.860 reveal classified information. Good for Judge Cannon. Smith has been caught time and time again using

00:05:22.220 deceptive and unethical tactics. Judge Cannon, so far, has shown herself to be fair and impartial. A stark contrast 0.97

00:05:31.060 to the Marxist Dem judge that President Trump faces in almost every other jurisdiction but Georgia,

00:05:38.000 where federal judge Amy Totenberg has been both fair and forthright. Hunter Biden's special counsel,

00:05:44.240 David Weiss, has rejected, some would be surprised to learn, rejected Hunter's demand to subpoena President

00:05:50.740 Trump and former Attorney General Bill Barr. The special counsel saying it was meritless. Hunter's

00:05:57.340 attorney, Abby Lowell, argued last month that the investigation into the president's son arose only

00:06:03.100 due to, quote, incessant improper and partisan pressure during the Trump administration. There's

00:06:09.720 some problems with that, like the calendar. Weiss shot down the demand, saying, quote, not only does

00:06:16.160 defendant's motion fail to identify any actual evidence of bias, vindictiveness, or discriminatory intent

00:06:22.960 on the special counsel's part. His arguments ignore an inconvenient truth. No charges were brought

00:06:29.960 against the defendant during the previous administration when the subpoena recipients

00:06:35.340 actually held office in the executive branch, end quote. Hunter and his attorney have to be embarrassed,

00:06:42.840 but they don't also seem to be the smartest fellows. All they might have considered was just reading a

00:06:49.020 calendar before further embarrassing themselves in court. Our guest today, as promised, is House

00:06:55.240 Judiciary Committee Chairman Jim Jordan. Mr. Chairman, great to have you with us here. I want to begin

00:07:00.660 with FBI Director Chris Wray on Capitol Hill this week, begging for the renewal of FISA and the Section 702

00:07:09.120 with no changes to either. Your thoughts? Well, Lou, thanks. I'm going to be with you. We're going to mark up

00:07:16.020 a bill tomorrow in Judiciary Committee that we think has the right kind of reforms. And frankly,

00:07:19.700 the biggest reform is if you're going to use American identifiers, American citizen, their phone

00:07:24.920 number, their email address to query this database that the FBI has, we think you should go to the

00:07:31.240 court and get a warrant. That's how our system works, a probable cause warrant. And that's kind of

00:07:36.060 probably the key thing we have in our legislation that is different from what we currently have. Now,

00:07:41.200 there are also a number of reforms to the 702 program itself and reforms to the broader FISA

00:07:48.420 where there was all the abuse that we've talked about for years relative to, you know, them spying

00:07:53.860 on President Trump's campaign, what they did to Michael Flynn and Carter Page. So we got reforms to

00:07:58.080 those, that part of the FISA law as well. We think we've got a good bill. We think it's going to come

00:08:02.420 out with a strong bipartisan vote tomorrow out of the Judiciary Committee.

00:08:08.640 I want to, I want to go through that if we may, but first I want to turn to some of the comments

00:08:14.280 that were made by various senators to, to primarily regarding Christopher Wray and his responses going

00:08:23.120 through going back to, as you know, 2021, we were talking about almost three and a half million

00:08:30.340 data queries and searches. A third of which were mistakes is acknowledged by the intelligence agencies,

00:08:37.120 the FBI in particular. And then the next year is somehow it got down to about a quarter of a million.

00:08:44.300 We, we have seen nothing in my judgment that makes me trust in this department of justice,

00:08:54.260 this FBI, the leaders of those, that agency and that department. It's just, I don't know how you

00:09:01.820 can do good business with bad people is what I'm saying. Well, no, good point. And I think that's,

00:09:07.580 that's the reason we got to have the measures in the, in, in the law that we're bringing forward in the

00:09:13.340 committee because you're right. The broader context, this is the same FBI that spied on

00:09:18.260 president Trump's campaign. This is the same FBI that the fifth circuit found censored Americans

00:09:23.140 first amendment free speech rights. This is the same FBI that raided Mark Howell's home, arrested

00:09:28.100 in front of his wife and seven children. And we're now supposed to say, oh, we're, we're, we're just

00:09:32.260 going to go long business as usual. Like no way. Oh, and by the way, this is the same FBI that,

00:09:38.080 this is the same FBI that has done all kinds of 278,000 times that queried the database and didn't

00:09:47.800 follow their own rules that they took to the FISA court. The FISA court said, yeah, follow those

00:09:51.920 rules. 278,000 times they didn't follow their own rules. So that's why we need the reforms.

00:09:57.000 And Senator Mike Lee today, I mean, he excoriated Christopher Wray and, and he was almost singular

00:10:05.700 amongst those on the judiciary of the Senate, the judiciary committee of the Senate. I have a

00:10:13.380 feeling that there is a great enthusiasm on the part of the senators to move forward. I'll put it

00:10:21.980 this way with far less regimen than you are, you're prescribing here. Well, I mean, we'll see what I,

00:10:30.240 what I know is what we're going to mark up tomorrow, I think is a good deal. And I think it'll come out of

00:10:35.360 a committee with strong bipartisan support. I think it frankly will have, will have strong

00:10:40.380 bipartisan support in the house because even the Democrats understand that, you know, we're talking

00:10:45.680 about your privacy rights and your, and your, your first member rights, they, they've seen the abuse.

00:10:50.080 So I think we're going to get help there. And that's, that's what we need to focus on is,

00:10:55.700 and this is something we've been building for Republicans on the judiciary committee. We've been

00:10:58.660 building for all year. We said, look, in the end, where we can make a difference and have an impact

00:11:02.900 is on this Pfizer reauthorization. And we plan to stand firm on these, these reforms and these

00:11:08.480 changes. These reforms, let's talk about what you mentioned, the fundamental act itself and the

00:11:16.520 way in which it was abused, you know, job shop, judge shopping, actually getting by judges, lying to

00:11:25.780 judges. Uh, the judges seemed absolutely inert, uh, and certainly incapable of standing, uh, standing

00:11:33.960 up for the principles of the law that they're supposed to be enforcing. Yeah, it makes, I think

00:11:39.020 it makes everyone, uh, um, like I say, the framework is this is the FBI who's abused so many things

00:11:47.360 and including the main Pfizer program, um, that, that is, this is why we think we need to,

00:11:54.120 some of the reforms we have in there, Lou, are like, uh, making sure that you, um, you can,

00:11:59.700 you can have someone in there to see the court proceeding, someone from the judiciary committee,

00:12:03.540 um, the, the, making sure that, that it's, there's penalties if you take false information

00:12:09.020 or you don't bring exculpatory information in front of the courts, like they did with

00:12:12.780 President Trump when they were spying on his campaign. Real penalties if you did what Kevin

00:12:17.320 Clinesmith did, was one of the lawyers of the Justice Department who lied to the FISA court

00:12:21.420 regarding the whole Trump spying escapade. So those are the kinds of things that we think

00:12:25.920 make sense, uh, for that part of the FISA law. And then of course, as I said, we're also working

00:12:30.820 on the 70C program. We'll be right back with Congressman Jim Jordan, chairman of the House

00:12:35.340 Judiciary Committee. We're talking about intel, uh, the constitution and the rights of American

00:12:41.340 citizens as we understand them today. We'll be right back. Stay with us.

00:12:45.640 We're back down with chairman Jim Jordan. And, uh, Mr. Chairman, let's turn to, to the basic,

00:12:57.100 uh, reforms that you're talking about in the law itself, uh, in of which, uh, section 702 is a

00:13:03.680 important and controversial part. Uh, how, how are you contemplating changing, uh, the law itself

00:13:11.560 so that, uh, American citizens right to privacy, uh, and freedom from, uh, surveillance and,

00:13:18.760 and outright spying by our government, uh, is diminished or eliminated?

00:13:23.560 Well, uh, on this, on the 702 program, and again, understand what, what, for your, for your viewers

00:13:29.400 and listeners that this is where our government is, is getting information from foreigners, but they pick

00:13:34.380 up some information on, on, on American citizens. We're saying if you're going to go search that

00:13:38.200 database and you're going to use one of the identifiers of an American citizen, like I said,

00:13:41.900 their phone number, their email address or something, then you have to go to a court and

00:13:45.660 get a warrant before you do that. Um, we also say that only, only certain people are able to search

00:13:52.680 that database. Uh, we had found that there were, there were thousands of people at the FBI, we were

00:13:58.080 told who had access and were able to search. That's probably one of the reasons they had the 278,000

00:14:02.800 in times that they violated the rules. So, um, we've limited the number of people who can actually

00:14:08.700 also then do the search. So all those are designed to protect Americans' freedoms. And then, as we

00:14:14.680 said, we got a lot of other reforms in the bill related to sort of what I call the main FISA, where

00:14:19.860 you go to the court to get a warrant at the FISA court to spy on a, um, an American citizen, and you

00:14:26.320 got to have probable cause in front of the court. But what we want to, what we want to do, because it's a

00:14:30.140 secret court, we want it to be less secret. We want certain reports, certain audits, certain

00:14:35.760 penalties. If you do things wrong, if you lie to the court, if you don't give exculpatory

00:14:38.940 information to the court, that's, that's what we have in our, in our bill, which we think is the

00:14:43.360 kind of safeguards you need to protect the constitution and protect Americans' liberties.

00:14:48.520 You know, Mr. Chairman, as I, as I listened to you, I'm thinking back to the latter days of the

00:14:54.300 Obama administration and approaching the Trump administration, the unmasking, everyone from

00:15:01.420 crying out loud, the Biden ambassador to the United Nations, to the vice president, unmasking

00:15:09.500 much of that data for whatever purpose.

00:15:13.560 Well, in the end, the best check on that kind of abuse is to have a different president.

00:15:18.520 And it's why I'm 110% in favor of President Trump being our next president and not have,

00:15:26.660 and then have the right kind of people at the Justice Department, the right kind of people

00:15:30.460 running these federal agencies that actually respect the constitution, respect the bill of

00:15:35.360 rights and respect the American people who they're supposed to serve, not target, not be

00:15:40.420 weaponized against the American bill, but serve the American people. That is the ultimate check in

00:15:44.260 the end. And it's why, you know, we talk about this all the time, but it's why, you know,

00:15:48.980 these elections are all important, but this one coming up is really darn important,

00:15:53.360 particularly when we see what the Biden administration is doing.

00:15:56.600 Yeah, I couldn't agree with you more about the urgency, the importance and the

00:16:00.540 existential nature of this, the 2024 presidential election. I think the outcome determines the

00:16:07.240 future of this republic and the fortunes for all of us.

00:16:10.120 Yeah, again, it starts from the top. Real leadership starts from the top, as you know

00:16:15.360 well. And it's why you have to have a commander in chief who is respected, who can put in the

00:16:23.820 right kind of people in these agencies. And frankly, this is not directly on the question,

00:16:29.700 but the respect and the strength projected from the Oval Office communicates so much,

00:16:35.340 particularly when you think about foreign policy. I would argue this is one of the reasons

00:16:37.580 that, you know, we've got some of the messes that are going around the world is because of

00:16:41.140 because of, you know, Joe Biden projects weakness. But a strong commander in chief who puts the right

00:16:46.620 people in charge of the justice party, you've got to have the right attorney general, you've got to

00:16:49.260 have the right person around the Department of Homeland Security. And all these key agencies

00:16:52.920 is critical. And then frankly, I think if and when President Trump wins, which I think is going to

00:16:59.040 happen, I think I said this before, he should fire everyone he's allowed to fire and then probably

00:17:03.080 fire a few people he's not allowed to and make just to make them sue him so that we send a message.

00:17:08.480 No, the bureaucracy is changing under the leadership of President Trump.

00:17:12.120 Mr. Chairman, let me ask you this. What would happen if you all decided ultimately

00:17:16.500 the will of the people exerted that you're not going to reauthorize 702, the FISA bill,

00:17:23.840 the FISA Act?

00:17:25.160 Well, it's an interesting question because I'm not against reauthorizing. I just want it done the right

00:17:30.260 way. But it sort of begs the fundamental question, I think, this is what underlies your question is,

00:17:37.020 aren't we allowed to spy on foreigners right now? Right? Whether that's, you know, you can, 1.00

00:17:42.320 the intelligence community can spy on, in fact, that's what we want them to do. What we're concerned

00:17:47.380 about is when they gather information that has American identifiers and information in it,

00:17:54.000 then going in and looking at Americans' information without getting a probable cause warrant.

00:18:00.300 So I don't know if there's an easy answer to that question. And I'm not opposed to having 702

00:18:07.820 reauthorized. What I'm opposed to is doing it in a way that doesn't protect Americans' civil liberties.

00:18:12.940 And that's been the sole focus of certainly Republicans on the Judiciary Committee and a lot

00:18:19.380 of other Republicans in the Congress. And Democrats, frankly, some Democrats as well.

00:18:23.600 Well, we thank you for doing that. Let me ask you one last question here.

00:18:27.280 The impeachment inquiry, a vote to formalize, certify, and move ahead with the impeachment process.

00:18:35.040 Yeah, I think that happens soon. I really do. And as I've said many times, I did a presentation for

00:18:39.420 the conference last week. A group of us did. I think the evidence is already compelling

00:18:44.440 when you think about, you know, this story really, Lou, is as old as the hills. It's a politician

00:18:50.120 does certain things. Those actions then benefit his family. And then third, there's an effort to

00:18:55.400 sweep it all under the rug and conceal it. And that seems to me what's played out, particularly when

00:18:59.860 you think about the Biden's involvement with this Ukrainian energy company, Burisma. And then the

00:19:05.180 concealment part is, it seems to me, when you look at how David Weiss ran this investigation

00:19:09.020 into Hunter Biden. So we have a compelling case, I think, right now. But, you know, we want to get

00:19:16.380 all the information, all the facts. So I do think there will be a vote. And I think it'll pass to

00:19:21.460 in a formal impeachment inquiry, where you have a vote of the House backing it up, not just with

00:19:26.520 not just a statement from the Speaker. And how soon do you think it'll happen?

00:19:30.100 I think it happens here in the next week. Sometime within the next week. And maybe not this,

00:19:34.540 maybe not maybe not here in the next couple of days. But, you know, sometime between this week

00:19:37.580 or next week, I think it happens. Congressman, we know you're busy as all get out, as always.

00:19:41.800 And we thank you for your time. Chairman Jim Jordan, God bless you.

00:19:45.940 Thank you. Take care. Merry Christmas.

00:19:48.180 Thanks, Chairman Jordan. Thanks, everybody, for joining us today. Our guests here on The Great

00:19:52.900 America Show this week include Congressman Andy Biggs, John Solomon, Gordon Chang, and Kyle

00:19:59.400 Rittenhouse. Please join us each and every day on The Great America Show. Follow me on Twitter

00:20:04.840 and Truth Social, at Lou Dobbs, and on Facebook and Instagram at Lou Dobbs Tonight, and check

00:20:10.380 out loudobbs.com. Thanks, everybody. God bless you, and may God bless America.

The Great America Show - December 06, 2023

JORDAN DEMANDS 702 RESPECT CIVIL RIGHTS

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