The Great America Show - KASH PATEL— MORE DURHAM CHARGES AHEAD; CUCCINELLI—STATES CAN DEFEND BORDER

00:00:00.000 Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Great America Podcast with Lou Dobbs,

00:00:04.200 always in the fight for truth, justice, and yes, our American way of life.

00:00:09.220 And now, here he is, the Peabody award-winning voice of truth, the great Lou Dobbs.

00:00:14.520 Welcome, everybody. Great to have you with us here on the Great America Show.

00:00:18.680 The national corporate-owned media is ignoring what is unquestionably one of the biggest stories

00:00:23.620 of the past number of years. That is the special counsel established by former Attorney General

00:00:29.580 William Barr has, two years later, filed documents alleging the Hillary Clinton campaign hired a

00:00:35.940 technology firm to spy on Donald Trump, both as a candidate and sitting president. That the

00:00:42.960 campaign funded and ordered its attorney, one of them or several of them, to construct a false

00:00:48.560 connection between Donald Trump and Russia. The fact is that ultimately became the fake Trump

00:00:53.800 dossier. You remember that. The basis created by Christopher Steele, the Steele dossier that was

00:01:00.980 ultimately used as the foundation for the Mueller special counsel that persecuted, hounded, and harassed

00:01:07.800 President Trump for years. Now, the truth is emerging, at least from the legal system. The truth

00:01:15.100 has been staring us in the face for years. Joining us now is Attorney Cash Patel, Senior Fellow at the

00:01:22.300 Center for Renewing America, the former Chief Investigator for the House Intelligence Committee,

00:01:27.840 former terrorism prosecutor at the Department of Justice early in his career, public defender as

00:01:33.580 well. Cash, it is great to have you with us here on the show. A special counsel, John Durham, that most

00:01:41.000 Americans had forgotten about in court filings this past Friday, saying Hillary Clinton's campaign, 0.98

00:01:47.680 her lawyers, a technology firm, played a part in the construction and used the so-called Steele dossier

00:01:53.920 to create the Russiagate hoax. What do you think? Well, Lou, it's great to be with you, and thanks for

00:02:01.920 your extensive coverage on this. You're one of the few that actually got it right the entire time, so

00:02:06.340 I'm glad for your audience. Look, we knew, as you knew back then, that Hillary Clinton paid for

00:02:12.060 the dossier, and that was what I call line of effort one, right? They were running that game

00:02:17.180 against the Trump candidacy paid for by the DNC and Hillary Clinton campaign, conjuring up false

00:02:23.160 information from overseas and peddled into the FBI, and the FBI then corrupt action wiretap the Trump

00:02:29.060 presidency. That was their first effort. Their second parallel effort, which we now know, thanks to John

00:02:33.720 Durham's filing, is this outrageous demonstration of callous by the Clinton campaign to think that

00:02:40.660 they could get away with wiretapping not just the presidential candidate, but the White House,

00:02:45.920 a sitting United States president. That makes Watergate look like a parking citation, and they

00:02:51.460 were running both of these scams from early in July 16 going forward, which means they've been

00:02:57.100 ongoing for years, and John Durham just showed us the nuts and bolts of who paid for it, the Hillary

00:03:03.160 Clinton campaign. They indicted, the special counsel indicted their lawyer in relation to this

00:03:07.780 activity, and now he's telling us there's a lot more coming. A lot more, and we read reports, John

00:03:14.800 Radcliffe apparently telling John Durham that in his judgment, the evidence suggests that there is a basis

00:03:21.980 for a number, a number of other charges and targets. Your reaction? Yeah, so look, Johnny

00:03:33.000 Radcliffe, the former DNI, is a dear friend of mine. We served together both over in Congress and then

00:03:37.580 over in the Trump administration. He's right. He told John Durham exactly what I told John Durham. I took

00:03:43.620 66 depositions under oath during the Russiagate investigation, including the likes of Jake Sullivan, who

00:03:48.860 should be the next target, and Michael Sussman as well. The basis for the Sussman indictment is my

00:03:54.140 interrogation of him under oath four years ago, and I agree with DNI Radcliffe that there are more

00:04:00.800 indictments coming because there's a number of other individuals who I believe lied under oath

00:04:04.340 to Congress, and those are just the beginnings of the crimes. Now we get to the criminal conspiracy

00:04:08.820 enterprise that was coordinated and orchestrated by the Hillary Clinton campaign, and there's now

00:04:13.700 a chance on planet Earth that only one or two people involve themselves in this effort. It is a massive

00:04:19.360 enterprise that they perpetuated, and now somehow we are finding out, I know it's taken too long, but

00:04:25.240 to uncover this, it takes time, but we're finding out that they actually got an arrangement with some

00:04:32.060 entity, the Clinton campaign that is, to infiltrate the servers at the Trump White House. That can only

00:04:37.520 happen if they are on board with the NSA, and that is the biggest scandal and crime in U.S. history.

00:04:45.300 You know, there's a name that has not surfaced, and that is the former director of the NSA,

00:04:54.000 uh, Keith Alexander. Uh, he is, he didn't show up with the, the, the evil triad, uh, of, uh, of CIA,

00:05:05.820 uh, of the, uh, uh, the, uh, of the three agencies, uh, in hearings, uh, and it's odd to be,

00:05:15.540 I've always been impressed by his absence. Is that because he's a good guy, or is it because he's

00:05:21.380 something else? You know, I'm not too sure personally. It did strike me as odd too, and

00:05:26.980 there was some dissension between the NSA and CIA and FBI when we were running the, uh, investigation

00:05:31.860 under Chairman Nunes. But what, what I can tell you from my 16 years in government definitively,

00:05:37.840 and since I've been away from it for over a year and I don't have access to classified information,

00:05:41.500 I can say this knowing I can't get in trouble. There is no way the Hillary Clinton campaign 0.99

00:05:45.960 secured a quote, sensitive arrangement, end quote, per John Durham's, uh, latest pleading

00:05:51.600 to obtain information and access to the servers of the white house. That cannot be done at the

00:05:57.540 most secure system on planet earth. You cannot do it unless you partner with the intelligence

00:06:02.440 community. And what John Durham is basically saying is that the Hillary Clinton campaign

00:06:05.740 partnered with permission of the intelligence community under president Trump to investigate

00:06:11.860 and infiltrate the servers at the white house to continue their false Russia narrative.

00:06:18.080 The technology firm that apparently was hired by the, uh, the attorneys and the effectively

00:06:26.020 the Clinton campaign because it was their money, uh, that firm, how much trouble is it in,

00:06:32.460 in all likelihood?

00:06:34.780 Oh, I think, uh, that firm is probably one of the cooperators in this because they know they

00:06:39.740 are in so much trouble and Rodney Jaffe, as we have identified him through the pleadings

00:06:44.220 and matching them up with the facts. We know that that tech firm itself that was hired by

00:06:49.360 Sussman who's indicted on behalf of the Clinton campaign, that tech firm told the Clinton campaign

00:06:54.180 that they could not find any connections between Trump and Russia. And to do so would basically

00:06:59.560 be a fraud. And Sussman in the Clinton campaign went ahead and said, do it anyway, make it up and

00:07:04.840 give it to us. So then he Sussman could peddle that information to the FBI and other government

00:07:09.580 agencies. So they could in 2016 and 17 continue to spy on president Trump and have him investigated

00:07:15.580 falsely. That is the very essence of this criminal enterprise. And it is going to be a very big

00:07:22.860 network. The tech company is just a piece of it. Don't forget fusion GPS and their entire

00:07:27.480 involvement in this scheme and Glenn Simpson and the likes of Andy McCabe. This is why Lou, I'm with

00:07:33.420 you. It's frustrating that it takes this long. And me as a former federal prosecutor, national security

00:07:37.220 prosecutor, you know, put together some of the most complex international terrorism cases on

00:07:41.220 planet Earth. But this is the largest criminal enterprise in U.S. history against a sitting

00:07:46.160 president. So for John Durham, he's probably working with an army of what, four or five people

00:07:50.620 that he can trust, not the entire Department of Justice. So it's going slow and I'm frustrated

00:07:55.140 at it, but he's building the case the right way. And I think in the next couple of months,

00:07:59.280 you're going to see some big indictments come down from his from his grand juries.

00:08:03.580 There is every suggestion that this goes, this is, and there are Obama years and a seed

00:08:12.000 to the, the spying effort by the Hillary Clinton campaign is how high does this go? How, just

00:08:22.540 how high does it go and how broadly do you think it goes?

00:08:27.920 I think it goes, it's a web that goes all the way to the top. And let me give you an example.

00:08:32.180 Jake Sullivan, the current national security advisor, the president of the United States

00:08:36.220 right now, as we speak, was back then the head advisor for the Hillary Clinton campaign.

00:08:41.660 Jake Sullivan back then pushed the Alpha Bank narrative that Michael Sussman conjured up for

00:08:46.840 them. And then later under oath to me in an interrogation, Jake Sullivan said he had no idea

00:08:53.320 what the campaign's lawyers were being paid millions of dollars for. He had no idea about

00:08:57.300 the Steele dossier line of effort. He had no idea about the Alpha Bank server line of effort. I find

00:09:02.700 that impossible to believe. I also find it shocking for America's defense that that man is a national

00:09:08.800 security advisor to our current president advising him on everything from Russia to Ukraine to Afghanistan.

00:09:13.720 And it's no wonder every one of those areas is such a disaster because he's being advised by

00:09:19.080 a political hack who I believe lied to Congress and helped orchestrate this entire scheme.

00:09:24.220 And Cash is speaking of his time as the former chief investigator for the House Intelligence

00:09:31.200 Committee, correct?

00:09:33.620 Yes, sir. I ran the Russiagate investigation for Chairman Nunes.

00:09:38.500 And I'm just reminding everybody of what you were doing at that point and why you were doing it.

00:09:44.860 You were also I've never seen a man more frustrated, frankly, than Devin Nunes when he was

00:09:52.900 responsible for so much and knew so much, as did you. And I've always I've always registered your

00:10:02.420 frustration as you talked about. Both of you and various members of that committee, I'm sure,

00:10:09.360 have known what the reality and the truth of this is for all those years and have been constrained

00:10:15.340 by law and regulation from from sharing that knowledge, correct?

00:10:21.260 Well, that's right, Lou. We could have we could have done what so many of the Democrats like Adam

00:10:25.220 Schiff and those other and that other circus that they were running, just leak classified information,

00:10:30.340 tell the media to lie, the mainstream media to lie on behalf of the Democratic National Party.

00:10:35.540 But no, we, Devin, myself, Johnny Ratcliffe, we did it the right way because we believe in the rule

00:10:41.140 of law and constitutional oversight. We knew it was going to take longer. It was going to take time.

00:10:45.800 And of course, the second entire battle to this is not just the investigation was hard enough to

00:10:50.980 prove this criminal enterprise, but informing the American public in the world, Lou, as you know,

00:10:56.220 was the second fight. We couldn't do it because we had such a corrupt media without guys like you.

00:11:01.380 The message would never have gotten out. And the whole purpose of the investigation to hold

00:11:04.840 people accountable and inform Americans, we wouldn't have been able to accomplish that.

00:11:08.480 But we're finally breaking through. I think that's a calculus that doesn't immediately

00:11:12.360 occur to some in the audience because they're not aware, as those of us who work in media or

00:11:20.740 politics or government, of just how corrupt the national media is, because simply to leak it,

00:11:28.380 for example, to the New York Times or the New York Times or CBS News or to Disney's ABC News,

00:11:39.000 the corporate media, in all likelihood, if you'd given it to them on a platter,

00:11:46.960 would have not it wouldn't have spiked it because it would have disappeared before it would have been

00:11:51.780 ready for a spike. Probably an editor would never have touched it.

00:11:57.380 No, you're absolutely right. Instead, what they did was, was instead what they did was they,

00:12:01.780 they started attacking Devin Nunes of the world personally and myself and defaming us mercilessly

00:12:08.360 because they said these guys, they knew we were putting out the truth through shows like Lou Dobbs.

00:12:14.060 And they said, absolutely not. We cannot have this narrative out there.

00:12:17.600 Donald Trump must be shown to be a Russian crony and not Hillary Clinton. And they just started 0.85

00:12:22.880 mercilessly attacking us. And that's why we started suing them for defamation. You got to correct

00:12:27.180 the media. And you're right. If you could have served it up on a silver platter and they would

00:12:30.640 have just said, you guys are liars. You're corrupt. You're Russian cronies. 1.00

00:12:36.040 And and where do we go from here? John Durham, I swear to you, I, the man is,

00:12:44.340 should be commended by everyone for what he has done. And, and I, I have mixed emotions about

00:12:52.900 William Barr. So I'm asking you from your perspective and from, with your knowledge

00:12:58.220 and your experience in all of these areas of intelligence and politics and governance itself,

00:13:03.920 tell us what we are to make of William Barr, because on one level, he didn't do his job

00:13:11.460 on so many issues. He did, however, appoint John Durham, special counsel that gave him resources

00:13:19.300 and time and some immunity from the deep state and the ideologues that were to follow the,

00:13:25.880 the Trump administration to get the job done. And this is part of the evidence that he is getting

00:13:32.180 it done.

00:13:32.700 No, you're looking right. I'm not here to judge the arc of the, uh, the bill Barr attorney general

00:13:39.360 tenure, but in this instance, we were able to educate the justice department that this was an

00:13:44.300 actual criminal conspiracy and Robert Mueller failed, um, in his appointment to uncover any

00:13:50.420 of this, as we now know. And thankfully bill Barr did appoint John Durham, who I know personally

00:13:54.620 I've worked with. Um, and he's a very serious career prosecutor. He's one of the few guys that when

00:13:59.380 you say career prosecutor, he's actually a career prosecutor. I have no idea what his politics are,

00:14:04.160 but I do know the level and depth of his work and the way he's putting together these pleadings

00:14:08.400 in these cases, he's not doing it to say, okay, I'm going to charge three people with a couple of

00:14:12.880 low level felonies and we're going to call it a day. He's doing it because he's building the

00:14:16.940 criminal conspiracy case, the larger enterprise case against, I think the likes of Andy McCabe,

00:14:22.340 um, Peter Strzok, Lisa page, um, Bruce or fusion GPS. And now most importantly,

00:14:28.360 the Clinton campaign and the likes of Jake Sullivan. So, I mean, just think about this.

00:14:33.120 This is a, this is the cast of characters. So if the democratic party had an all-star game,

00:14:38.420 these people would be starting for them. And John Durham is investigating all of them and their

00:14:43.380 intricate web of conspiracy against the United States. And then we go into the issue of the

00:14:48.880 leadership of the campaign itself, because these monies that were expended and the, uh, the effort

00:14:55.100 and energies of personnel within the campaign, it seems to me, uh, couldn't have been expended

00:15:01.720 without the knowledge of the chairman than the directors of the campaign itself.

00:15:10.140 You're absolutely right. And one of those senior level people was Jake Sullivan back then and,

00:15:14.540 and, and, and Podesta and Ben Rose and whoever else was over there. And you're right. You can't spend

00:15:19.240 tens of millions of dollars because remember that's how much Perkins Coie was paid. Perkins Coie is a law

00:15:24.320 firm that Elias and Sussman worked at and, uh, worked for the Hillary Clinton campaign. They were

00:15:29.620 paid tens of millions of dollars. Nobody can spend that amount of money and not blink, not even the

00:15:35.760 Hillary Clinton campaign. So they knew they were being billed for it. Of course, there were conversations

00:15:40.340 between the Elias's and Sussman's of the world and the Clinton leadership, um, over at her campaign.

00:15:45.600 We hope John Durham finds out the details of those conversations because in that detail, I believe is a

00:15:51.380 criminal conspiracy that John Durham needs to show America through an indictment. And, uh, we know,

00:15:58.420 I think many of us believe we know, uh, where this, uh, should lead, where, uh, it seems, uh, you know,

00:16:07.500 that it has to lead, but proving it as another thing and the strength and the energy of the, uh, of the

00:16:15.720 special counsel will be all important in, in justice being, being served and, uh, uh, being, uh, in fact

00:16:24.580 in force. Do you think that Durham has that energy and that commitment?

00:16:30.120 I do. I do. Remember, this is a guy, most people forget that was the lead prosecutor in the rendition

00:16:36.680 error during the CIA programs, the rendition programs and, and, and faced a massive onslaught

00:16:42.640 because he was taking on the intelligence community. And in that sense, he's doing that

00:16:47.480 again. He's taking on the intelligence community and of course the Clinton campaign and, and the

00:16:52.420 Clinton machine. So it's a little bigger. And that's why I think John Durham is uniquely situated.

00:16:57.600 I don't think anyone's scaring him off. And, you know, let me tell you this, people always say,

00:17:01.120 what, you know, why doesn't someone, why doesn't Merrick Garland shut down John Durham? They can't,

00:17:05.580 they don't have the lawful authority. John Durham has brought multiple federal prosecutions

00:17:09.880 that are still ongoing. No federal judge in America is going to permit those investigations

00:17:14.280 to be thwarted or shut down by the department of justice. And that of course is exactly why the

00:17:20.900 special counsel exists in law, uh, to pro to protect, uh, the public interest against, uh, I'll put it this

00:17:30.300 way, other political interest within government itself. Uh, this let's turn to, if we may, one other

00:17:39.060 aspect of this, and that is what people are now, uh, worrying about and thinking about and hoping

00:17:45.360 about, and that is how long will this take to get to the next stage? And what do you expect that next

00:17:50.560 stage to be? Um, I expect that you'll see a couple more pleadings of like in the fashion that we just

00:17:57.380 saw from John Durham over the next month. And in the next two to four months, I suspect you'll see

00:18:02.300 about four more indictments. Um, and I do think he has Andy McCabe as a target, um, for his, uh,

00:18:08.600 indictment. And I think that's just right because Andy McCabe was at the center of this, um, criminal,

00:18:14.720 uh, crooked conspiracy. So I think it's going to take a little more time and I know that's frustrating

00:18:19.900 to hear, but, um, I know he's doing it the right way because as a former federal prosecutor, I see

00:18:24.640 these pleadings and I'm like, okay, he's serious. He's legit. This is not someone who's just, uh,

00:18:29.880 going away in a week or so. This is, he's building something big. Plus let's not forget Lou.

00:18:34.140 He put over 24 witnesses in the grand jury to include the former, uh, uh, assistant director

00:18:41.060 of the FBI, Peter Strzok, Bill Priestap, you know, all these names, he put agency officials in there.

00:18:46.700 He put campaign officials in there. He put James Baker, the former general counsel of, uh, in there.

00:18:51.820 You don't, you don't go in and get these people under oath. If you're just building a small Mickey

00:18:56.060 mouse case, you lock in their testimony for future use. That's, that's what a smart prosecutor does. 1.00

00:19:01.480 And that's what I believe John Durham has done. He's got the right players and he's putting the

00:19:05.400 pieces together. And with that grand jury, uh, the, the risk, the jeopardy for those, uh, those people

00:19:14.660 speaking under oath, uh, rises exponentially. Uh, and of course that's the point so that the,

00:19:21.520 the truth will emerge, uh, with a, with a little help from new friends, uh, uh, uh, that he brought,

00:19:28.480 uh, that he brought forward. I, I, you know, I, I really appreciate you giving us that your,

00:19:34.420 your sense of the roadmap here. Uh, he's charged three people, I believe now for, for lying to federal

00:19:41.920 agents, um, the serious charges, the charges of, uh, the criminal charges. How soon do you think,

00:19:49.600 uh, that one could expect that? I think it's a large conspiracy case that he's bringing,

00:19:57.060 you know, I I'll analogize it to a Rico case. Like when we brought mob cases down is he's not

00:20:01.920 using the Rico statute, but he's using a similar sort of platform because it's the only way to prove

00:20:07.860 this criminal conduct and connect all the people. So that's why I think it's just taking time. And

00:20:12.520 that's why I don't think you'll see with a major indictment for, you know, still a few more months.

00:20:16.280 Um, unfortunately, I know we want him yesterday, but, um, I have, I do, I do believe he's getting,

00:20:22.760 he's getting there and we're going to see more and more pleadings to show where he's going.

00:20:26.660 And the thing that's great about John Durham is he hasn't leaked a single thing in this era,

00:20:31.840 in this day and age, in this department of justice and this FBI, not one leak, not one leak. And that

00:20:37.740 tells me he's got the right crew that he needs ever be it so small to get this thing done. And

00:20:44.420 your audience should look out for criminal conspiracy involving, you know, you know,

00:20:48.780 the cast of characters better than anyone, Lou, and they're all going to be in it.

00:20:52.800 I think that I may be one of the least frustrated people in the country because I am, uh, so excited

00:21:00.420 about the fact that truth is finally emerging, uh, and that Durham is shown clearly, uh, for example,

00:21:07.720 what you're highlighting there, the fact that he has managed to maintain a confidentiality secrecy

00:21:14.320 throughout to me only speaks to the seriousness of the, the charges that he is, uh, planning to

00:21:21.340 bring. Uh, I don't know if that's a correct inference or not, but it, but it's mine. Let me turn. You

00:21:27.260 mentioned Jake Sullivan, the national security advisor to president Biden. Uh, the hysteria, uh,

00:21:34.080 as, uh, Zelensky president Zelensky referred to, uh, uh, referred to Biden and the administration

00:21:42.380 on the part of the U S government and the U S president in talking about the quote unquote,

00:21:48.100 imminent, uh, invasion of Ukraine by Russia. I I've never seen a situation more screwed. Well, 0.82

00:21:55.740 that's not true. I've seen a few screwed up situations, but this among the most, and, uh,

00:22:01.360 it's right up there with the, the parallel mismanagement of the withdrawal that became

00:22:06.420 a surrender and cabal, uh, this is a terrible way to treat a nation that you ostensibly are trying

00:22:14.180 to support, uh, against a despot your thoughts about what they've done and how they're doing it.

00:22:21.440 No, it's, it's a great point. And that's why I'm so worried that Jake Sullivan is the one

00:22:25.460 advising our commander in chief. Look, um, the fact that America has lost its footing on its world stage

00:22:30.800 is shown every day in the Biden administration. When it comes to national security, what Russia

00:22:35.160 is doing to the Ukraine and what Putin wants the world to focus on he Putin and he Russia and he, 0.51

00:22:41.140 and he's churning his propaganda machine. Look, I'll be the first to tell you, Putin is never going to

00:22:45.260 invade the Ukraine because he knows he can't start world war three, but what he can do is play with 0.98

00:22:50.320 American propaganda machine, make us look weak, which he wins in doing. And she, she's doing things 0.80

00:22:56.240 doing the same thing in Taiwan and Putin is going to take this thing to the one, one inch line. And now

00:23:00.900 who's negotiating with Putin, you know, the French president or the German chancellor in Putin's

00:23:06.980 ginormous, uh, you know, dining room table, 75 feet away with Putin laughing at them and not even that,

00:23:13.020 not even mentioning the commander in chief of the United States. That's how far they've fallen. And these

00:23:18.460 actions that, that Jake Sullivan is advising the president to take and to take like evacuating our embassy

00:23:24.620 and not using our NATO allies is the actions of people who do not know how the national security

00:23:29.700 apparatus works, but the only thing they care about is politics. And what they want to show is that

00:23:35.020 when, when there is no invasion, uh, mark my word, they will take a victory lap and say they somehow

00:23:40.780 saved the world from world war three, um, which could not be further from the truth. They are doing

00:23:45.380 everything wrong when it comes to Ukraine. And unfortunately Putin is in a position of dominance based on our

00:23:51.760 weakness. And I truly believe, I, I, I, I applaud your analysis and I agree with it entirely. I think

00:24:00.100 there is another aspect of this too, that the administration, uh, will not speak of even though

00:24:07.480 it's staring them in the face. And that is that Putin has put, uh, not only a hundred thousand of his

00:24:13.920 troops on the, on the, on the, on the Western border of Russia with, uh, Ukraine, but he also has his

00:24:21.100 troops, uh, brigades, uh, in, uh, Moldova, uh, has, uh, forces, uh, at least, uh, four or five divisions,

00:24:30.160 uh, in Belarus. Uh, this is, uh, this is de facto annexation. If he simply takes his troops from the border

00:24:40.040 with Ukraine, orders them back to base, uh, and, you know, uh, washes his hands of the whole thing.

00:24:47.180 And then takes, as you say, uh, uh, his time and enjoying what he's done to the West and to us, uh,

00:24:54.960 former supremacy in foreign policy, uh, in the world. Uh, I, this is a de facto annexation. If he wants to leave

00:25:03.980 it right here, he wins, he wins, and he wins. What do you think? You're absolutely right. He's

00:25:10.680 winning. And I hate to say that because this guy's our enemy. This guy's he's remember, this is the

00:25:15.860 guy who spent $41,000 to upend a presidential election cycle in 2015 and 16. And he was laughing

00:25:22.060 at us back then because it happened during the Obama administration. They let it happen. And then

00:25:26.940 everybody overlooked that part and just jumped to Trump's in bed with Putin, which was ludicrous, 0.81

00:25:32.060 but he got the media campaign he wanted. We're still talking about it. We've had multiple special

00:25:36.780 councils as a result of it. Um, and he's doing the same thing in the Ukraine. I mean, it's a little

00:25:41.300 more expensive for him to move around these truths, but let's not forget who Vladimir Putin is. He owns

00:25:45.560 half the gas and oil companies in Russia. He has an endless supply of money. He's going to be president.

00:25:50.460 He just changed the law. He's going to be president there for life. So he's not going anywhere. He

00:25:55.340 doesn't have a term out period and he has no respect for American leadership right now. Um, not at the

00:26:01.420 secretary of state level, not at the defense of defense department, but certainly not that place,

00:26:05.580 our defense department, me, I'm shocked to have to admit this as a former chief of staff for DOD,

00:26:11.040 but our defense department is just playing politics with America's national security. And they show

00:26:16.560 it every day. They showed it in Afghanistan and they're showing it again in Ukraine, um, by being

00:26:21.780 outmaneuvered, um, at every chance. And all they care about is the next headline. So these people in

00:26:27.540 charge can fill their egos and make themselves think they are saving America when they are failing

00:26:33.120 America. Lloyd Austin, defense secretary, Mark Milley, uh, the chairman of joint chief of staff,

00:26:40.460 uh, Milley, the chief advisor to the, to the president, uh, all affairs military, uh, Lloyd Austin,

00:26:48.600 actually bringing in the defense, the defense contractors to say, we need your help to find

00:26:57.780 out what the Chinese and Russians are doing with hypersonic missiles. Uh, this is the most,

00:27:05.560 I just, I literally, I'm, I'm lost for words to describe my reaction and my anger that we have

00:27:13.340 such people, uh, who are in charge of this nation's security and the safety of 300 million Americans.

00:27:21.500 It's outrageous. I mean, they are truly politicizing the national security operas takes

00:27:26.260 the two folks you, you said, uh, chairman Milley, who I worked with and worked, he worked for us.

00:27:32.760 Um, he, his sole job is to be the advisor to the president of the United States on military matters.

00:27:37.760 He is not in the chain of command by law. And yet he found himself to inject himself in the

00:27:42.640 chain of command when it came to all things to secure his job into the next administration,

00:27:47.420 i.e. on January 6 matters, i.e. on calling his Chinese counterpart to say, we'll give you a heads

00:27:53.420 up if we're going to invade. He does not give military command orders. He is prohibited from

00:27:58.180 doing that. Lloyd Austin, he has taken the defense department that I used to lead, um, and changed it

00:28:04.260 from a machine that protects Americans to a machine that bends to the will of the mainstream media.

00:28:10.560 For example, the priority of the defense department was climate change. And I'm not kidding,

00:28:16.120 Lou. They, they put out these campaign plans. That's how we move the machine. That's how we

00:28:19.740 fight wars. That's how we prepare to take on Russia, China, and Afghanistan and encountering

00:28:24.380 terrorism. The first campaign plan that Lloyd Austin put out for this DOD was on climate change

00:28:29.840 and the weather. And you got Mark Milley screaming about white rage and phantom goats. And that's what

00:28:34.660 our men and women in uniform are being forced to focus on. So of course they don't know how to

00:28:39.780 withdraw it out of Afghanistan. And of course they don't know how to react to this situation

00:28:43.660 in the Ukraine because they didn't prepare for it because they took their eye off the 0.54

00:28:47.720 mission, uh, which was protecting Americans and global security and put it on politics.

00:28:55.100 Cash, if people aren't concerned, uh, they have not heard your words here today. And I know

00:29:02.260 they have, uh, it's, I appreciate your time and your insight and your, and your candor. I, we have

00:29:09.900 a practice, as you know, here on the great America show, we give our guests the last word always and

00:29:15.700 are delighted to do so when, uh, the guest is, uh, cash Patel, uh, if you're, if you will, your

00:29:22.620 concluding thoughts. Mike, well, one, thanks for having this informative discussion, Lou, because

00:29:28.680 it takes, you know, you are so well-read and so up to speed on the matters that that's what it takes

00:29:33.680 for a good, credible media to relay the information to the American people appropriately. And we've

00:29:39.540 covered so much today of such consequence, be it the Durham stuff, um, to the latest in the Ukraine,

00:29:45.380 to our national security, to, um, you know, matters that Americans, everyday Americans care about

00:29:50.380 Democrat or Republican. So I'm just thankful that you're putting this material out there.

00:29:54.900 And, um, if I can ever be so selfish, it's just to ask for your audience to check out my website,

00:30:00.840 fight with cash.com fight with cash.com with a K. Um, we're raising money to help people who need

00:30:06.480 lawyers who've been defamed. So it's a foundation to help Americans. And, um, if they have a spare

00:30:11.400 second, um, check it out. We we'd love your support. Well, I'm sure that the audience will be, uh,

00:30:17.040 eager to support you. Uh, and it's fight with cash, uh, dot com, correct? Yes, sir.

00:30:24.180 All right. Cash Patel. Thank you very much. A great American. We appreciate all that you do

00:30:31.440 and have done for this country. Thanks so much. God bless you. And God bless America.

00:30:37.080 We continue now with a great America show with an important story and important development in the

00:30:42.460 battle to secure our borders, to end open borders, to protect us citizens who live in the border states

00:30:49.760 of Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, and California. Uh, there has been, uh, I think one of the most

00:30:56.380 important developments in border security in some time, thanks to the work of the former deputy

00:31:01.980 director of the department of Homeland security and former white house budget director, Russ Vought

00:31:07.560 at the center for renewing America. There is a way forward now for governors of border states

00:31:13.820 to take action on their own, to secure their state's border with Mexico. And that means

00:31:20.780 defending their citizens against the flood of deadly drugs, sex trafficking, and the smuggling

00:31:26.580 of illegal immigrants across the Mexican border. That is a plague in those states with us now is 1.00

00:31:34.540 Ken Cuccinelli to tell us more about what seems to me, at least to be the foundation of a new approach

00:31:41.000 to securing that border. Ken, it's great to have you on the great America show and great to talk with

00:32:01.360 you old friend. And I have to say congratulations to you and the center for renewing America. Uh,

00:32:08.280 this is an exciting development, I think for border security, one that I haven't seen since

00:32:13.500 say the election of Donald J. Trump. Yeah, there's no question that, um, this is historic and, um,

00:32:20.620 you know, what it's the first time in American history, the history of the constitution that any

00:32:27.060 legal authority in America has addressed the question of the, is what's going on at the border and

00:32:36.300 invasion? And Arizona attorney general Mark Brnovich issued an opinion on Monday that is the official

00:32:43.400 legal position of the state of Arizona, that the answer to that question is yes. What is happening

00:32:49.040 at the Arizona, Mexico border is an invasion. That's no different than the other border states,

00:32:54.080 but that's, uh, that's his area of authority. That was the first thing he said. The second was

00:32:59.780 that under what's called the guarantee clause, article four section for the constitution. And I

00:33:06.320 welcome everybody listening to us to pull their constitution out of their pocket. I'm sure anybody

00:33:10.400 listening to who Dobbs has one in their pocket, um, and take a look at it. And the federal government

00:33:16.520 promises three things to the States. They promise a Republican form of government, which is what the

00:33:23.320 guarantee clause is best known for. They promise to protect States against domestic insurrection

00:33:29.640 within the state. So against the state government, and they promise to protect every state against

00:33:35.720 invasion. And it's that provision that Arizona attorney general Mark Brnovich found the federal

00:33:41.900 government has abjectly failed to fulfill. And the third conclusion of his opinion was the, okay, now what

00:33:50.680 is that under the very end of article one, article one, section 10, paragraph three, which is most

00:33:58.200 commonly known for the compacts clause, but it also includes an opportunity for States to defend

00:34:05.060 themselves when they are actually invaded. And that's what the language says. And that's what the

00:34:11.980 attorney general of Arizona, Mark Brnovich found is that the governor of Arizona as the commander in

00:34:18.560 chief of Arizona can use their state forces, state police, national guard to repel people at the

00:34:26.980 border in between the legal ports of entry that they don't need the permission of the federal

00:34:33.760 government to do it. Um, and as you noted, Lou, that's a game changer. If one of the governors on

00:34:40.280 the border will actually take up their authority and fulfill their responsibilities to protect the people

00:34:46.360 of their state. Now let's go to that and attorney, the attorney general, uh, Brnovich is, uh, I, I, I mean,

00:34:55.160 it's terrific that he now has made that ruling. What is the governor of Arizona going to do about it? Is he

00:35:01.780 going to use that authority, uh, to secure the border and protect his citizens in that state?

00:35:07.560 It's an excellent question. And, um, you know, thus far he hasn't done it, but I think the issuing

00:35:18.140 of the opinion completely changes the landscape and the political pressure. I will tell you this,

00:35:23.920 Lou, um, this issue has been vehemently picked up at the governor's race. They have a governor's race

00:35:30.060 this year. Um, and I predict on your show, I predict that the next Arizona governor will use

00:35:39.960 this authority. No one will be elected in Arizona this year after this opinion without committing

00:35:47.360 to use this authority. That's my prediction. So it, as much as I'd like it to happen tomorrow,

00:35:53.300 it's at least going to happen next year. And that's only halfway through the Biden administration,

00:35:58.900 instead of having to wait all the way to the end until we get a president who will actually

00:36:03.200 enforce our laws and protect our borders. Yeah. I, I, it's one thing to, to be waiting for the,

00:36:09.560 for the election in 2024. It's another to count up the cost of doing so. When we look at all of the

00:36:17.700 deaths, all of the deadly drugs that are coming into this country, the human smuggling, the, the sex 1.00

00:36:23.540 trafficking, my God, it's irresponsible of anyone, but most especially the president of the United

00:36:30.500 States, Joe Biden, to basically vow that he will leave that border wide open. Uh, he will bring in

00:36:38.260 as many illegal immigrants as possible. Uh, and, uh, the rest is collateral damage and so be it, uh, 1.00

00:36:45.600 it seems to be what he's saying exactly. It does seem to be what he's saying exactly. And, um, you

00:36:53.920 know, we've seen so much tragedy across this country because of not having a secure border. Mark

00:36:59.800 Morgan likes to say that every town in America is a border town. Yep. And what he means by that is all 0.91

00:37:05.900 those drugs you referenced, which are now produced in Mexico. I mean, the only deadly drug not produced

00:37:12.920 in Mexico anymore is cocaine. And that trans ships through Mexico, the Mexican drug cartels,

00:37:19.160 the most evil, vicious people in the Western hemisphere control what's coming across that

00:37:25.140 border. Americans have a hard time with this. Our government, to the extent we control the border at

00:37:30.840 all is, is who we think of on the, on the border. But on the other side, looking North, it is two

00:37:38.880 cartels, the Sinaloa cartel, actually three Zetas and CJNG, not the Mexican government that crosses

00:37:47.160 that border. Nothing crosses that border without the permission and paying a toll to those cartels.

00:37:54.040 There are people who believe they're literally making more money with the human smuggling, which

00:37:59.000 we call illegal immigration than they are with drug smuggling now. And yet the drugs that they're

00:38:04.460 sending into this country killed over a hundred thousand people in the last fiscal year. 0.87

00:38:10.240 It's, and I, and I'm looking at a number from, uh, from actually your policy brief, uh, which says,

00:38:17.660 uh, as senior fellow, it's, uh, Ken Cuccinelli, uh, saying data provided by the customs border protection

00:38:25.760 in March of last year, estimated cartels and human trafficking earning $14 million a day,

00:38:32.920 moving people across that border. Uh, it's, and I, I would suspect Ken, that that's even, uh, perhaps

00:38:40.320 a, uh, conservative estimate. Yeah, it obviously, first of all, it's obviously an estimate, right?

00:38:48.720 Because they don't really cooperate with us auditing them. And, um, and, um, uh, nonetheless,

00:38:56.940 when it, the intelligence that we have on the illegal flows is really pretty good. We know the pricing.

00:39:04.500 And, uh, one of the things I used to tweet when I was the deputy secretary, I would, I would put out

00:39:10.640 some of the ads, the advertisements that the coyotes run in Honduras on Guatemala, radio ads, Facebook ads,

00:39:19.620 flyers they put out. And it just looks like ordinary marketing materials, but it's to transport them

00:39:26.980 up and into the United States. And the prices are what for them is basically their whole life savings,

00:39:33.600 um, which is another human tragedy and all of this, but, but, um, that money finding its way into the

00:39:41.620 pockets of the most evil, vicious people in America. That's terrible. Not in America,

00:39:46.700 in the Americas, the whole hemisphere. Right. And we know that, uh, over 2 million

00:39:53.560 illegal immigrants across that border this year. Uh, some of them apprehended, some of them not.

00:40:01.060 And we also know that the Biden administration for the first time ever in mass is moving illegal

00:40:08.380 immigrants, uh, across the country that you were talking about Mark Morgan, the former, uh, head of,

00:40:14.160 uh, customs and border protection talking about every, every town in this, uh, this country is a

00:40:20.780 border town. He's never been more correct because of these flights that the Biden administration is

00:40:28.120 organizing to fly illegals from the border to unsuspecting towns and cities all over. And I mean,

00:40:36.620 all over the country, it's outrageous. And they're trying to do it secretly. It is outrageous. They're

00:40:43.060 doing it in the middle of the night. They're literally giving their contractors instructions.

00:40:47.260 Don't talk to the media. Don't tell anybody so much for open government there. Uh, I heard from

00:40:52.400 Congressman John Katko, the ranking Republican on house homeland security yesterday. And he said,

00:40:58.300 they're not answering their questions, congressional questions about this subject. I mean, they're

00:41:03.020 burying it, they're hiding it. And it's one of the, the positive consequences, I think of the

00:41:07.980 Republicans taking over the house and, or the Senate at the end of this year is that they're going to

00:41:13.600 have to, they're Congress. That's going to be very insistent on answering these questions. And I think

00:41:19.320 I know that, that there are a lot of people in these organizations who want to answer the questions.

00:41:26.280 Well, that's the thing I I'm, there was a terrific clip of a number of border patrol, uh, agents

00:41:33.980 talking with their top leaders, including, uh, Mayorkas, uh, who, by the way, I, to me is like

00:41:43.280 putting an arsonist in charge of a fire department. I don't get what that is all about. I don't know

00:41:48.600 how the man was ever confirmed, but well, I do know, but it's stunning that he was confirmed.

00:41:54.420 I'll put it that way. It does border patrol agents. They haven't got a job right now because

00:42:00.800 their goals, everything, their, their imperatives are absolutely the inverse, uh, the, uh, inverse

00:42:09.960 of what this administration wants done, which is an open border. And as many illegal immigrants 0.99

00:42:15.780 across that border as possible, as many drugs, uh, as many sex traffickers, you know, it's your border. 0.85

00:42:22.320 Yeah. So let's talk about that, Lou. Um, they can't get rid of ice. They can't get rid of CBT,

00:42:31.480 right? So what are they doing? They're issuing memos that deprioritize actually doing their job.

00:42:37.440 If you look at the deportations from ice, it went from 185,000 last year, two years ago to 55,000

00:42:46.600 last year, a 70% decline. They're not deporting anybody. And that's their mission. And this

00:42:53.940 administration is intentionally debilitating these agencies internally, setting up confusing

00:43:01.080 and incoherent meet, uh, management structures with instructions that tie their hands. It's like,

00:43:07.900 if you were a marathon runner, Lou, um, and the gun is about to go off to start the race,

00:43:12.660 the last thing you do is you lean down and you tie your shoelaces together. That is exactly what's

00:43:18.820 going on with this. It is intentional, just like the border, what you and I call a crisis.

00:43:25.600 They call policy. They want what's happening at the border to happen at the border. This is the plan.

00:43:32.580 This isn't a mistake. This is their policy. They want to undermine America. They don't believe

00:43:38.700 America is exceptional. They don't believe we should have borders. They don't believe that,

00:43:43.760 um, we should enforce our own laws. And so they don't. And even Democrats, even since the spring

00:43:51.760 of 2021, right after Biden was sworn in, have disagreed with Biden's own policy. Democrats in

00:44:00.260 polling have disagreed with it. So, you know, Americans across the spectrum don't support the

00:44:06.760 debilitating of ICE, of CDP. And we need to pray for these folks, especially the ones sticking it out

00:44:14.180 through this administration to still be there and do what they can for us, for you and for me and for

00:44:19.480 everybody listening to protect us. They're doing a tough job in a tough environment with a leadership

00:44:26.320 like Secretary Mayorkas that loathes them. And that's, that's a hard way to get up and go to work

00:44:32.280 when you know your boss really wishes you didn't exist. Exactly. Well, why aren't the minority 1.00

00:44:38.300 communities in this country, you know, you and I've talked about it previously, the people who are

00:44:44.040 most injured, uh, are those whose jobs are taken by, uh, people coming in who are, uh, low, low skilled,

00:44:53.280 low educated, uh, and are, are thrilled to make a dollar when we have citizens here who are, you know,

00:45:02.660 at entry level on up who are just being badly damaged. It's, it's, it's, it's, to me, it's staggering

00:45:10.020 that minorities are not in greater protest of what this administration is doing. Yeah. So,

00:45:15.880 so let's, uh, I appreciate you raising that Lou. It's one of my pet peeves on both sides of the

00:45:22.940 aisle. There are Republicans who don't want to talk to this. You know that very well because it

00:45:28.620 offends their big business in the wall street journal and so forth. And, um, the fact of the

00:45:33.480 matter is the people hurt the most and hurt first by large scale, illegal immigration are poor Americans 0.96

00:45:41.560 who we should care about who we, I believe at least have a moral obligation to structure policies to

00:45:47.500 not hurt them. And, uh, and, and there's numbers to prove this at the end of 2019, before the COVID

00:45:54.820 hysteria hit, we reached, and I never saw this written about anywhere. We reached the lowest recorded

00:46:03.000 poverty rate in American history since they began recording that statistic under Donald Trump. How do we

00:46:11.120 get there? We got there because of deregulation and tax cuts, but that wasn't enough. That didn't

00:46:18.740 get there, especially for poor people. It was the enforcement of our immigration laws that did the

00:46:25.120 job for the poor people. That's how you drive the poverty rate down is because they could, businesses 0.97

00:46:31.460 couldn't just hire from an unlimited pool. They had to pay a little more. They had to pay approximately

00:46:37.460 six or 8% more if I remember my data directly from them to poor people. They did better in 2019 in

00:46:45.380 terms of improvement, the poorest Americans than any other quintile, as we would look at it statistically

00:46:52.320 of Americans in the country. And that's as it should be. That's as it should be. We want the poorest 1.00

00:46:58.900 Americans to do better. And they got off the couch. You remember the lowest black unemployment,

00:47:03.540 lowest Hispanic unemployment in history at that time. And that's real progress. That's the benefit 1.00

00:47:11.760 economically of enforcing our immigration laws is you open the door, not for welfare, but for 0.72

00:47:18.160 opportunity for our own poor people to pick themselves up by their own bootstraps. And our poor 0.82

00:47:26.540 people did that in America in 2017, 18 and 19. And importantly, and I do want to say, we did on my

00:47:36.660 show report those, those improvements under Donald Trump, including the fact that broadly across the

00:47:45.780 economy, the Trump administration succeeded in raising wages for the first time. Wages, real wages had been

00:47:54.560 stagnant in this country for 20 years, 20 years. And he changed, he changed the direction for the lower

00:48:06.620 income Americans, for the middle class, the forgotten Americans, too often who are middle class, who have

00:48:13.820 families who work, go to work every day, the backbone of this country. It's when I think about the people

00:48:22.240 who were upset because he was a mean tweeter, I think, how puerile can a society be? How many

00:48:28.980 buttercups can one nation afford, really? But, you know, it's just, it's great that you are involved in

00:48:36.460 this initiative and that you are succeeding. And I want to, I want to just ask you, what is next for both

00:48:45.280 this, for the Arizona Attorney General, the state of Arizona, and how far are you going to be able to

00:48:52.840 get both energy and motivation behind this constitutional basis for each state to defend

00:49:02.020 a border that the Biden administration doesn't even acknowledge exists?

00:49:07.020 Yeah, they won't even say the word crisis. So you used an important word there, Lou,

00:49:14.080 constitutional. I want to be really clear to your listeners, this is not immigration law. This is not

00:49:20.100 immigration law. This is a constitutional power completely separate from immigration law. States,

00:49:27.260 according to the Supreme Court, are not allowed on their own authority anyway, to enforce immigration law

00:49:33.200 under a ruling in 2012, ironically, Arizona v. U.S. And, but this power was one that states kept to

00:49:42.780 defend themselves. It's constitutional power. And so now, as you noted, what happens? What happens is

00:49:49.340 people turn and ask Doug Ducey. They ask Greg Abbott. Those are the logical people to turn to

00:49:54.660 immediately. Are you going to actually protect our border instead of just complaining about Joe Biden not

00:50:01.480 protecting it? You have the power, you have the authority, so don't you have the responsibility?

00:50:07.060 And the, and the follow-on to that is, as I noted, this is spilling into the campaigns of 2022.

00:50:13.740 Both states' governor's elections are happening this year. And this is, in Arizona at least, I truly

00:50:20.840 believe no one will get elected the next Arizona governor without committing to do this. And Texas is a

00:50:28.500 little different animal, but I think that it's going to be, it's going to be politically very difficult

00:50:34.000 for them to avoid moving forward, especially once Arizona's doing it. I mean, they'll just,

00:50:40.720 you know, they'll be being left behind. They'll be, it's just like Ron DeSantis pushing harder than

00:50:45.720 Greg Abbott. Here you'll have Arizona pushing harder than Greg Abbott. And, and I've known Greg for a dozen

00:50:52.080 years. I don't think that's a position he really wants to be in. So I, you know, that isn't how

00:50:57.740 decision-making should happen, Lou, but I do think the pressure is going to keep turning up now.

00:51:03.720 And this legal opinion does an enormous service to those of us in this country, like you and me,

00:51:09.760 who want to find a way to defend our borders. States have sovereignty, and this is one of the

00:51:15.820 elements of sovereignty that they have preserved for themselves. They should use it.

00:51:20.340 Well, Ken, as always, thank you for bringing your knowledge, your expertise, your insight

00:51:28.240 to, to the Great America Show. We're, we're deeply appreciative. Want to congratulate you

00:51:34.560 and Russ Vaught and the Center for Renewing America for doing so. And we wish you all great success and

00:51:41.780 good luck as you move forward and come back soon and keep us up to date, if you will.

00:51:45.900 Absolutely, Lou. It's great to be with you as always.

00:51:49.240 Thank you. Ken Cuccinelli. And that's it for this edition of the Great America Show. Thanks for

00:51:55.180 being with us. See you tomorrow. Join us again tomorrow for the Great America Podcast. Stay in

00:52:00.980 the fight. Truth, justice, and the American way will prevail against all enemies, against all odds.

The Great America Show - February 16, 2022

KASH PATEL— MORE DURHAM CHARGES AHEAD; CUCCINELLI—STATES CAN DEFEND BORDER

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