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00:00:33.720Hello, everybody, and welcome to The Great America Show.
00:01:26.100President Trump giving comment after the jury was dismissed, he says Mother Teresa couldn't beat these charges with a corrupt judge like Juan Merchant.
00:01:36.200In listening to the charges from the judges, as you know, very conflicted and corrupt because of the confliction, very, very corrupt.
00:01:46.580Mother Teresa could not beat these charges.
00:02:22.220And, of course, it looks like it could take as long as Friday, perhaps longer, in the minds of most of the so-called experts on juries and verdicts.
00:02:32.600Our guest today has been at the forefront of the effort to bring accountability to the CIA.
00:02:39.040Our guest, John Gentry, and he is the author of the book Neutering the CIA, Why U.S. Intelligence vs. Trump Has Long-Term Consequences.
00:02:49.380And now, in the midst of all that is happening right now, whether it is the Soviet-style persecutions and trial of President Trump,
00:02:59.580whether it is the extraordinary destructive policies that the Biden administration is following,
00:03:06.620whether it is against Israel, whether it is, in point of fact, aligned with the CCP,
00:03:12.660there are conflicts aplenty right now for whomever wins on November 5th, and most likely that is President Donald Trump.
00:06:01.160My guess is the leaks will take a little bit longer to develop, perhaps after the Republican Convention in July.
00:06:12.240Hayden is also, as you know, very active with the Atlantic Council.
00:06:17.560How big a reservation is this for former top officials of the CIA, top officials, government officials, but primarily CIA and the intelligence community?
00:06:33.280It seems to be a reservation for them from which to deplane or disembark.
00:06:42.080Well, there is certainly some of that.
00:06:45.340We've had allies of the anti-Trump activists in the press, of course.
00:06:50.900So the media gave these people contracts to talk online.
00:07:01.060And they've provided space in think tanks.
00:07:07.420And even the International Spy Museum, which you might have thought would be a commercial venture interested in the science, if you will, or the history of intelligence.
00:07:17.360It's got seven, seven members of the laptop 51 letter, the letter that tried to debunk the Hunter Biden laptop contents in October of 2001.
00:07:29.880And seven of the 51 are on advisory boards of the International Spy Museum.
00:07:36.340So the senior, some of the senior people who were active are still heavily, heavily ensconced, so to speak, in reputable organizations throughout the American society.
00:07:52.100You know, we haven't talked about this before, but I'm just curious, as we're talking about, we now know those 51 veterans were liars all.
00:08:02.480We also know there was no repercussion, even for those among them who actually organized that letter to be a shield for Joe Biden in his second and last, it turned out, presidential debate in 2020.
00:08:17.980Does that embolden the intelligence community to, again, be as bald and bald-faced and raw in their intrusion into domestic politics?
00:08:34.160Well, I suspect it will to some degree.
00:08:37.880I mean, people like Michael Morell and Mark Palomaropoulos, who were the orchestrators of this, have been significantly embarrassed.
00:08:54.980Actually, I think this is an interesting case in a way in which you can have influence generated in ways that are not illegal but are part of broader information operations.
00:09:10.760So if I might, starting in 2016, the press basically coddled intelligence officers and said these people know everything about everything,
00:09:20.500and they're authorized and able to talk wisely about any part of domestic politics, including the strengths and limitations of Mr. Trump.
00:09:33.620So the image of these people was built up.
00:09:37.900And in October of 2020, when the Hunter laptop contents were identified, the FBI had already determined that this was a real computer.
00:09:52.800But the Biden administration, in the form of current Secretary of State, Antony Blinken, went to Morell and said, can you help us?
00:10:08.440We know this from testimony to the Judiciary Committee last spring, in spring of 23.
00:10:15.460And so at that point, they came up with a very weakly worded document that said, well, it sort of looks like it might be Russian information.
00:10:30.080The letter itself is very vague, but Politico, which had been part of this cabal, if you will, of trying to boost the credentials of intelligence officers, put in its headline,
00:10:45.060intelligence people say this is Russian disinformation.
00:10:49.960So it actually was a misrepresentation of the letter itself, but that served the purpose.
00:10:57.780So you had, in essence, intelligence officers and the anti-Trump press working together to generate an impression to voters that turned out to be helpful for Mr. Biden.
00:11:11.100And that one of the people who received that solicitation told me personally that the solicitation that this person received specifically sought help for the Biden campaign.
00:11:26.020It was not to generate expertise, not to recruit expertise on Russian disinformation technology.
00:11:33.860Morell hasn't been coy about that at all, to my surprise.
00:11:38.100Well, he was told he needed to testify about this under oath to judiciary.
00:11:47.260And apparently he decided to come clean rather than have a felony rap.
00:11:52.900Well, a felony rap, I don't think would be entirely misplaced for those 51, because I infer from what you're saying that you have the same suspicion I do.
00:12:05.380And I'll just ask you, I believe every one of those 51 knew exactly how Politico would handle that headline,
00:12:11.660knew exactly how the left wing media would proceed with that headline.
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00:14:54.740We're talking with John Gentry, author, former CIA officer and, as I said, great American.
00:15:00.780It seems to me that something has occurred here in the intervening time period from Trump's leaving office and the ascension to this regime by Joe Biden,
00:15:17.320whoever he works for, whoever he works for, whosoever his master or masters.
00:15:21.920It's clear the deep state has solidified, if you would, its presence, its influence, and has at the same time done something I didn't think would happen for some time.
00:15:54.820There's been a dramatic change in the culture.
00:15:56.580I look at this issue in my book and identify six things that changed, three important ones.
00:16:08.480One is the emergence into the workforce of a large number of young people who are coming out of the kind of college environment that we're seeing in 2023, Hamas and all of that.
00:16:23.980Marxism is rampant in major universities.
00:16:28.300These young people provided fodder for Senator and then President Obama, who made it crystal clear that he wanted to transform, to use his term, transform the federal workforce as part of a step to transform the country.
00:16:44.580And the key element of this broader policy was the diversity, equity, and inclusion policy.
00:16:54.180And what this did was change the composition of the workforce, change the political views of the workforce, and change the organizational cultures of the workforce.
00:17:05.960Obama had some very strong and effective, from their perspective, helpers, primarily CIA Director John Brennan and Director of National Intelligence Jim Clapper.
00:17:22.160Brennan particularly was effective in altering the CIA.
00:17:26.960He makes it clear in his book and in interviews with Wall Street Journal and other workers who worked for him at the time have said, yes, he in fact tried to change the culture, and he encouraged us to be politically active.
00:17:48.300So he was effective in doing that, and when you add that then to the kinds of policy changes that occurred, diversity offices that have been created, you in essence now have a different kind of deep state.
00:18:03.960So in the political science literature, you think of Turkey and Pakistan and so on, but in the United States now, we've got a situation in which you had an ideologically motivated group of people who have created a moderate structure centered around the diversity offices,
00:18:26.340who are daily increasing and strengthening the ideological orientation of the workforce toward the DEI agenda.
00:18:40.440And as you say, this comes pretty directly from critical race theory, from critical theory generally, which goes back to the Marxists of the Frankfurt School in the 1930s.
00:18:54.820So this is a long-standing effort, and it's fundamentally altering the country.
00:19:05.980In advance of our discussion here today, I took a look at the CIA website, one of them.
00:19:11.540And right there in front of God and everybody is DEI, diversity, equity, inclusion, and all the rat trap lingo around it at the CIA, right on the front page with the utter assurance that you won't have to be meritorious.
00:19:33.320You will not have to worry if you have the correct skin color and the perfect political outlook, then you just might be serving in the CIA.
00:19:45.300I mean, it's a terrible thing when I think about it.
00:19:49.140The Pentagon, the CIA, it is rampant across the Biden regime.
00:19:54.820They've insinuated this toxin into the lifeblood of this federal government, and to the point that it is, frankly, it's useless and it's dangerous at the same time.
00:20:15.640They're using this to create, to purposefully change the way the government works, and this is headed toward a revolution.
00:20:26.600I mean, that's what the Marxists are trying to do.
00:20:31.220John, when I said useless, it's useless for the American taxpayer, the American citizen,
00:20:37.120and all who are not a part of the approved identity groups that represent the push and the leadership of DEI and that fundamental transformation Obama talked about.
00:20:52.800You know, I understand what you mean, but again, we're not in disagreement, but I would go further and say that this has an actively negative purpose.
00:21:05.800And I think, importantly, as much as President Obama and his appointees, again, Brennan and Clapper in particular,
00:21:16.020as much as they did, the effort has been pushed much harder since January of 2021.
00:21:25.540And what we see now is a much stronger DEIA now.
00:21:33.680So President Biden has added an A for accessibility.
00:21:38.940So you've got a much stronger culture embedded now than we used to have.
00:21:46.900And this is now, I think, obvious to a lot of people, including some people who were advising President Trump.
00:21:54.760And that leads to the question, will a President Trump in a second term, if it comes to that, will he address this issue beginning in 2025?
00:22:06.220Open question, because he did virtually nothing in his first term on this.
00:22:14.640And my guess is that there will be some effort to address this.
00:22:18.740There has to be, as you know, what you lay out in your book, Neutering the CIA, is precisely what is the challenge before President Trump and in the new administration.
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00:23:14.920We're talking with John Gentry, author of The Neutering of the CIA, a former CIA officer himself, and as I said at the outset, a great American.
00:23:46.880I think that the leadership of CIA and other organizations do not have staff meetings in which they call in their senior subordinates and say, let's figure out how we're going to launch policies to alter the country here now.
00:24:08.740I think they are culpable, though, in at least two significant ways.
00:24:15.680One is that they purposely created the organizational culture that generated the reaction against Trump that I talked about.
00:24:31.200And secondly, they've done nothing to to address it.
00:24:35.140And I think that the there's some evidence that the senior intelligence people are working to help prevent a an effort by a Trump administration to change things.
00:24:52.940So so so they're they're culpable in significant ways without directly doing the kinds of things that you're talking about.
00:25:02.100And I also as I was looking at this again, another CIA website, I was there were talked about the story of the CIA, which I thought was one of the most buffed and varnished accounts of the history of the CIA.
00:25:18.280I could imagine, because it didn't start, for example, working with the French in Vietnam in 1954 and 53 and 54 under Eisenhower.
00:25:29.960It didn't start with John F. Kennedy or ordering up more special forces and help for the South Vietnamese.
00:25:40.060It didn't look to the assassination of the Jim brothers who were running South Vietnam 20 days before the assassination of John F. Kennedy.
00:25:51.920I mean, it's it's it's an interesting travail as well as a journey to to watch, because the CIA has been engaged in the in the most important, I consider most important issues of our time.
00:26:13.780And I'm talking about from 45 on your thinking.
00:26:17.600Well, they have been very, very involved.
00:26:21.820And, of course, of course, CIA started in 1947, put together pieces of the old Office of Strategic Services from World War Two.
00:26:33.120But it was a new organization in those in those in those in the 40s, got a little bit ahead of itself in terms of covert action in the in the in the in the coups of against Iran and Guatemala and 53, 54.
00:26:52.180They have pigs debacle was both an error by CIA, a big, big set of errors and an error by error by by President Kennedy.
00:27:03.120But the kinds of covert actions use the use the intelligence, U.S. intelligence term, other countries use different terms that that you're talking about diminished to a large degree in the mid 1970s.
00:27:17.140So the the the Congress put a kibosh on political activities and election tampering and and so on.
00:27:24.740And as best I can tell, relatively little of that has has has gone on.
00:27:30.680There's been paramilitary ones, of course, Afghanistan in the 1980s.
00:27:38.040But an important point, I think, is that for many, many, many years in both operations and in the analysis side where I was, there was a strong effort to be honest, to be objective, to be non biased in any way, including a political way.
00:27:58.180And there were institutional measures in terms of review and so on that were designed to counter biases of various sorts.
00:28:06.780But those began to break down, I think, in the 1990s.
00:28:11.500And then you had in the early 2000s with the influx of people after 2001, the kinds of kind of change in in workforce orientation that I that I talked about earlier.
00:28:25.280So the agency was, I think, well intended for a long, long time through the through the end of the 1980s at minimum.
00:28:36.460But it's a very different organization now than it used to be.
00:28:41.860And as we talk about and we're going to have to talk about the history of the CIA.
00:28:45.900I think it'd be fascinating for the audience because and I'm talking about the real history.
00:28:52.400For example, when you look at the the the Pentagon Papers, which is often often overlooked by even journalists who are committed to the public's right to know they haven't even read them.
00:29:04.620They are not even aware of who produced them or the two news organizations that released them, despite the intimidating threat of the of the intelligence communities.
00:29:18.020And indeed, the the Nixon administration itself from that from that point forward.
00:29:24.580And there is a little matter of electing a former director of the CIA, George H.W. Bush.
00:29:31.660I mean, it's a remarkable period of history that had a lot, a lot of implications for what was to follow.
00:29:39.240Well, John Gentry, it's always interesting to talk with you and always educational.