The Great America Show - NSA WHISTLEBLOWER SAYS OUR INTEL AGENCIES HAVE BEEN SPYING ON OUR CITIZENS, GOVT OFFICIALS, CONGRESS AND SENATE, SUPREME CT. FOR 20 YEARS

00:00:00.000 Hello, everybody. I'm Lou Dobbs, and this is The Great America Show with truth, justice, and the American way every day.

00:00:07.780 Great to have you with us, and here we go.

00:00:10.560 House Speaker McCarthy looking for President Biden to negotiate on federal spending, of which there's far too much.

00:00:17.480 And McCarthy says he'll go along with raising the debt ceiling now and raise it substantially.

00:00:23.780 He'll take it up another $1.5 trillion, which would cover expected government spending through next March.

00:00:31.260 In return, McCarthy says he wants Biden to agree to cut $130 billion of federal spending.

00:00:37.700 That would mean clawing back billions in COVID slush funds, end student loan forgiveness, get rid of market-distorting green energy credits,

00:00:47.360 and repeal that $80 billion to the IRS and the hiring of nearly 90,000 new IRS agents and auditors.

00:00:57.520 We have a deficit and a debt crisis because of Biden's out-of-control spending.

00:01:03.540 This year's deficit approaches $1.5 trillion and will run at least $2 trillion a year for the next decade if spending isn't brought under control.

00:01:14.380 The national debt now is approaching $32 trillion.

00:01:18.840 That means President Biden has watched the national debt rise $10 trillion since he took office.

00:01:25.640 It will have risen 50% in just three years.

00:01:30.120 And the size of our economy, our GDP, just can't keep up.

00:01:34.120 It's now at $26 trillion, and Wall Street is talking recession at the end of this year.

00:01:39.980 It's not good.

00:01:41.200 So we have a crisis, but I'm not sure President Biden will even talk with McCarthy, let alone negotiate on cutting spending.

00:01:49.540 We could have a real mess on our hands come this summer when the debt ceiling must be raised

00:01:55.420 or a likely devastating, unprecedented debt default will occur by the federal government.

00:02:02.280 There is some good news, though.

00:02:04.060 The Biden regime has finally discovered what we've talked about here for a couple of years.

00:02:09.400 They discovered Chinese police stations, seven of them, in the United States.

00:02:15.040 Arrests made, but what took so long?

00:02:17.740 That's the real question.

00:02:19.300 And why now?

00:02:20.940 China says those police stations, by the way, are just service centers, and we're repressing their policemen.

00:02:26.860 Oops, I mean helpers.

00:02:28.420 And the House Judiciary has another whistleblower, this time from the IRS, who says there's a reason that it's taken seven years to investigate Hunter Biden's taxes and his obvious crimes contained in his laptop.

00:02:44.140 The whistleblower's attorney says his client witnessed Biden-White House interference in the case.

00:02:51.020 What a White House.

00:02:52.440 Now, think about it.

00:02:54.520 We haven't heard anything from that Biden special counsel lately.

00:02:58.800 Who is investigating Biden's classified document scandal?

00:03:02.720 How long should that take?

00:03:04.540 I'm guessing just about seven years at least.

00:03:08.120 The Biden regime, now in damage control, they found the young Air National Guardsmen, they say, is the lone leaker.

00:03:15.260 But they're not sure how many documents he actually leaked.

00:03:18.780 And with us today is our friend Russ Tice, former senior National Security Agency intelligence analyst and whistleblower.

00:03:27.160 Russ Tice.

00:03:28.260 Russ, great to have you with us.

00:03:29.820 Our weekly conversations always seem to be timely.

00:03:33.260 Two weeks ago, when we were talking, the Pentagon admitted that they had a leak.

00:03:37.720 And this week, they say this 21-year-old National Guardsman is the guy.

00:03:43.020 21 years old, Russ?

00:03:45.080 Handling top secret, most secret documents?

00:03:47.720 Your thoughts?

00:03:49.800 Well, he is awfully young.

00:03:52.100 As far as doing in-depth analysis work, I would doubt that he's in that position.

00:03:58.420 I would think that he's more likely some sort of a sysadmin paper shuffler to get these documents to the right places they need to go.

00:04:06.740 So I'm not sure whether this was at the just secret level, which is a system called CIPRNET, or whether this was at the TSSCI level or top secret sensitive compartmented information level, which is a computer system called JWICS.

00:04:22.020 But the JWICS system, if he had access, is a lot worse than just the CIPRNET.

00:04:26.400 And to look at these early descriptions, the gaming crowd that he was hanging around with in Cyberland, they seem to have a high opinion of him.

00:04:41.660 Young, smart, charismatic, nothing that sounded like a description of a surly leaker who is operating out of some form of malice towards the country or toward the military.

00:04:59.940 Well, perhaps there's no political motive here.

00:05:04.940 And he's just trying to impress his friends at the kind of information that he has access to.

00:05:11.260 Or perhaps a young lady you might want to date is trying to convince her how important you are to impress her.

00:05:20.160 But it sounds like they've put the information in the hands of someone who's too immature to be able to understand the gravity of what's going on.

00:05:32.880 When the Pentagon is made to look like fools with this young man putting this material out on social media and wasn't detected for just about a month.

00:05:47.740 I mean, when we have the level of sophistication and advanced technology that we have available to our intelligence agencies, are you surprised that they wouldn't pick up something like this on the web?

00:06:02.820 Yes, I am.

00:06:03.580 As a matter of fact, NSA has an office, a cyber office, and it's quite well staffed with some of the brightest minds that we have.

00:06:15.000 We call them web warriors at NSA.

00:06:17.600 And some of their job is to just go into the web and make sure that these things aren't happening and to do other things in the web, too.

00:06:27.300 Excuse me.

00:06:27.880 But, you know, this is incredible that this could have gone by for weeks on end.

00:06:34.760 And they still don't know exactly how this happened.

00:06:37.460 But it's pretty clear.

00:06:39.120 But having found him, how do you suppose they did find him, by the way?

00:06:44.100 What was involved in your judgment to go back over his trail and figure out who it was?

00:06:53.620 Well, first, you've got to find out, you know, I would go in and do a document search, like you would for anything document on the computer, and put in keywords.

00:07:04.360 And I do that in that environment, that dark web environment, to try to pull up all the documents that you think might be associated.

00:07:12.220 Now, once you do that, then you've got to find out, all right, you ID the documents, then you need to find out who had access to those documents.

00:07:21.880 You know, where, you know, and that's going to be a lot of folks, probably, especially if it was at the secret sipper net level.

00:07:27.060 And then you've got to start winnowing it down from that point to, you know, in some places, other places, they might only have some of those documents, but not all of them.

00:07:40.320 So you start to, then you start to pin down a location.

00:07:43.540 What location would have had someone had access to that particular lot of information?

00:07:48.860 So then once you pin it down to a location, then you start looking at individuals that had access, and then you start looking into the backgrounds of those information.

00:07:58.200 But obviously, once this was realized, this has been a full court press to find this individual, and it looks like they found them quickly, which in that respect is a good thing.

00:08:08.380 But the fact that it languished for weeks without someone realizing it is concerning.

00:08:14.900 But Fort Bragg is airborne.

00:08:16.440 It's the 82nd Airborne.

00:08:18.860 It's the home of the fighters.

00:08:23.740 And to have this kind of information just floating around there is sort of surprising.

00:08:29.660 Surprising in some ways that it's necessary, but certainly surprising that there isn't a high level of security there.

00:08:37.760 Any thoughts on that?

00:08:40.060 Well, these are special forces units.

00:08:42.840 I think, you know, we call them snake eaters in the world.

00:08:45.920 But why would they have access to something like, you know, Russian hackers into Canadian, you know, natural gas networks and pipelines?

00:08:59.800 And a whole lot of this, a lot of the political, you know, situations like Egypt planning to send arms to Russia secretly or Serbia, you know, wanting to arm Kiev or, you know, all these political things.

00:09:17.680 Because there's no reason for anyone at Fort Bragg, even a lot of the brass to have access to that because it's really not a need-to-know issue for them.

00:09:27.880 So in that respect, someone needs to go in and put some filters on this information to make sure that it only need-to-know information goes to the people that need to know it.

00:09:40.800 And you just don't splatter this stuff all over the place, you know, so that it's easy access for anyone who wants to suck it all up.

00:09:50.140 And to think that this is, again, 10 years after Snowden, what in the world are the intelligence agencies and the military doing?

00:10:01.920 There are, we're talking about sensitive documents, top secret documents.

00:10:06.720 We're talking now about this.

00:10:08.080 We're talking about papers, sensitive papers on the president's itinerary and travel in Ireland.

00:10:14.880 It's as if everyone has decided this is nothing more than yesterday's newspaper they're throwing around. 0.93

00:10:21.880 It's ridiculous. 0.89

00:10:23.460 Well, it sounds like there's an awful lot of indolence involved in this. 0.74

00:10:26.620 It's so easy just to just not pay attention and just, you know, move data from one place to another and, okay, you know, I don't have to worry about a whole lot of security filters.

00:10:40.940 Yes, there's a lot of questions to be asked, Lou, and especially when we've had issues, you know, and Mr. Snowden certainly released information that we needed to know, and he was a viable whistleblower.

00:10:53.260 But I certainly don't think we could put, you know, an altruistic whistleblower label on this gentleman.

00:11:00.080 We're talking with Russ Tice, folks, a former NSA senior intelligence analyst and whistleblower.

00:11:05.920 We were talking about what is a whistleblower under the definition of Mr. Tice.

00:11:10.240 Stay with us.

00:11:11.060 We're coming right back after this quick message from our sponsors.

00:11:16.240 We're back now talking with former NSA intelligence analyst Russ Tice.

00:11:20.820 Russ, before the break, we were talking about the idea of a whistleblower.

00:11:25.440 Just what is a whistleblower as you define it?

00:11:28.840 Well, for me, it's someone who knows what's going on is either illegal or immoral or unconstitutional,

00:11:38.200 and it's something that the government should not be involved in, and certainly the people should know that this is going on,

00:11:44.960 and ultimately their tax dollars are paying for it.

00:11:48.460 So that's a true whistleblower.

00:11:52.740 And someone who's not going to profit off of this, you know, oh, gee, I'm going to be a whistleblower so I can write that big book

00:11:59.040 and, you know, make a whole bunch of money, or, you know, I'm going to be the whistleblower so I can, you know,

00:12:03.800 get a job at some fancy network being the commentator for, you know, for defense or whatever their expertise is.

00:12:13.100 But so it's someone who does this basically not for self-gain and to let the people know.

00:12:22.260 Unfortunately, for national security whistleblowers, even the FBI and people in the intelligence community,

00:12:29.480 the whistleblower laws do not protect you.

00:12:32.960 As a matter of fact, there is a clause right in the Whistleblower Protection Act that says this does not apply to NSA, CIA, FBI,

00:12:41.120 all these agencies.

00:12:42.120 And even the Intelligence Community Whistleblower Protection Act requires employees to go to the senior IG or their senior staff to tell them that they have a problem.

00:12:55.480 Now, what if that problem, in my case, that problem was literally with the director of NSA,

00:13:00.240 and the IG didn't even have security clearances to know what was going on.

00:13:05.240 So it's kind of – there is no protection for someone in the intelligence community or the national security world.

00:13:13.000 In other fields, you know, we've had whistleblowers that, you know, let us know the tobacco industry was basically, you know,

00:13:21.300 knocking up the cigarettes to make that, you know, a whole lot more enticing and that sort of thing.

00:13:28.720 And those are all good things.

00:13:29.980 And some of those people, you know, through court cases, they make a little money in the process.

00:13:33.900 But in our business, and you would think –

00:13:36.380 I want to stay with national security intelligence.

00:13:40.180 And in your case, I believe the head of NSA at that point, was that Hayden?

00:13:46.380 It was Michael Hayden, yes.

00:13:48.220 Did you go to Hayden directly?

00:13:50.160 I found out about it.

00:13:51.380 And they – then I called the unit where I found out what initially was domestic spying.

00:13:58.140 And I realized that this was pretty bad.

00:14:00.500 Then I sort of did a little investigation with people that I knew.

00:14:03.940 You know, I had a wide network because I'd been involved in so many things in different agencies to find out how bad this was.

00:14:10.300 And then they told me, it's not just your satellite stuff, Russ.

00:14:13.360 This is everything, everything domestically.

00:14:16.640 Well, one of those calls I made on a secure line.

00:14:19.320 But give everybody the context, the year, what was happening, and what you found that was so troubling.

00:14:26.760 Well, the year would have – this would have been the 2002-2003 time frame.

00:14:31.940 And we were gearing up for the operations that were about to happen in Iraq.

00:14:36.560 Now, let me tell you, we knew we were going to war in Iraq.

00:14:39.540 All those things about, you know, we need to find out weapons of mass destruction.

00:14:43.380 That was all nonsense.

00:14:44.820 I was read into the war planning in early July of 2002, and it was well underway when I got read in.

00:14:53.520 But anyhow, my job was to integrate my special access program satellite stuff into the plan, the war plan,

00:15:01.540 and determine where my support would be needed into all this and what sort of special operations were going to be involved,

00:15:07.940 or likely be involved, where I would be, you know, a key player.

00:15:13.600 So in the process of doing that, I had to contact, you know, certain places to get information for an operation that I was gearing up for,

00:15:22.660 for a potential conflict, which we all knew was coming at that point.

00:15:27.000 So it was in that context when I contacted another unit when I initially found out that they were spying.

00:15:34.980 Well, at that point, they were going after, like, Colin Powell, the Joint Chiefs of Staff, General Shiseki.

00:15:44.460 They were going after a whole lot of, you know, high-level of our own people.

00:15:52.020 You're saying they were running surveillance on the general staff of the U.S. military and others.

00:16:00.300 Is that right?

00:16:01.660 That's correct, yeah.

00:16:02.620 That's what I was finding out.

00:16:05.600 That's just with my knowledge with the satellites.

00:16:09.220 And then it was kind of crazy because one of the people that they were going after was the White House briefer.

00:16:19.560 I think his name was McClellan or McKellen, but they were tapping all his stuff, too.

00:16:25.060 And I assume that's because they didn't trust their own press secretary.

00:16:30.840 So it was kind of interesting.

00:16:34.500 At that point, then that's when I went to my friends to find out what the hell is going on here and how bad is this.

00:16:42.880 And that's when we found out it was really bad.

00:16:45.980 At that point…

00:16:47.180 So define really bad for us, if you can.

00:16:50.220 Okay, really bad back then was they didn't have the capacity at that time to do – now they just collect everything on everybody.

00:16:58.300 But back then, they didn't have the capability.

00:17:00.420 They didn't have the computer capability.

00:17:02.720 They didn't have the ability to screen at all.

00:17:06.300 So it was just too big a bite.

00:17:08.740 So then they started targeting certain individuals.

00:17:11.620 They targeted, like I said, the joint chiefs of staff.

00:17:16.460 Then when I was working with my colleagues about – that we were finding out that they were going after law firms and lawyers and they were going after – this is all domestically now.

00:17:27.960 That means targeting.

00:17:28.820 That means the metadata and word for word what was going on.

00:17:32.420 They were going after key individuals in Congress, the armed services committees, the intelligence committees, the big eight in Congress.

00:17:42.440 They had them all – all of them, everything – all their communications is computer and phone, not just them.

00:17:49.180 But they were going after their spouses and their children and the little offices that they had off in Oregon.

00:17:56.280 Or, you know, each congressman has their own little offices in their prospective states.

00:18:01.640 They were going after all that.

00:18:03.400 They were going after the press in bulk.

00:18:08.100 It was – the FISA court, the Supreme Court.

00:18:12.920 Every Supreme Court member was being tapped.

00:18:15.860 In my hand, I would get these things.

00:18:18.820 As a matter of fact, they were coming out of the burn bags is where these guys dragged them out of.

00:18:22.260 And I saw all these numbers associated with Justice Alito when he was about to be being considered for the Supreme Court.

00:18:31.120 He wasn't even a justice yet.

00:18:33.040 And so Samuel Alito was being tapped before he even got on the Supreme Court.

00:18:37.660 And then there's this other guy, this wannabe senator who had won his primary in Illinois.

00:18:45.200 And, you know, we didn't know what this guy's name is.

00:18:48.520 It's a weird name, Barack Obama. 0.56

00:18:51.580 I'm like, who the hell is this guy?

00:18:52.960 I don't know.

00:18:53.480 So – and that was in the summer of 2004 where they went after President Obama.

00:19:01.620 So, you know, at that point –

00:19:03.440 So you find – you find that out.

00:19:07.220 What do you do about it?

00:19:09.320 Well, at this point, we knew this was huge.

00:19:12.380 We knew this was really, really bad.

00:19:15.580 NSA was already jerking me around because they knew I initially had found out what I'd found out.

00:19:19.900 And they put me in the motor pool.

00:19:21.060 And I was doing – I was making meetings with these folks.

00:19:24.480 You know, I was doing all these sleuthiest-type things and meeting in parks in the middle of the night and having these little dead drops and the machination.

00:19:36.360 Because I had – the FBI was on me at this point too, by the way.

00:19:39.560 So I had to shake the FBI, make contacts.

00:19:43.540 We had code words.

00:19:44.640 We made our own – we had a system where we had no electrons.

00:19:48.760 We did not communicate at all with phones or any computers.

00:19:53.500 Everything was done old-fashioned style with dead drops, and we created our own codes.

00:19:58.200 We used – actually, we used newspapers where we did a system of numbered selected words off of newspapers.

00:20:04.680 At this point, the NSA had created a whistleblower, in point of fact, because they had insulted you.

00:20:12.600 Well, let me finish very quickly.

00:20:16.120 They had insulted you when you were asking just legitimate questions.

00:20:20.200 And now suddenly there's an intramural, if you will, what would I call it, surveillance and spy operation within NSA about people who are concerned about what they're doing.

00:20:33.320 Is that right?

00:20:34.680 That's correct.

00:20:36.100 And these other folks are – they've already got me in the motor pool.

00:20:39.340 These other folks are very worried about their own careers.

00:20:42.400 They're willing to help me out with the knowledge.

00:20:44.760 But they all have mortgage payments and kids in school and responsibilities.

00:20:48.920 So basically, I became the front man for this.

00:20:52.440 And I tried to contact – I sent to my handler, this person, this woman, Divini, and I said to – I need to talk to Kemp Ensor, who's the head of security at Q Group at NSA.

00:21:06.800 And she came back and said, oh, he's not going to talk to you.

00:21:08.960 And then at that point, I wasn't sure whether he even knew what was going on.

00:21:11.600 He maybe didn't.

00:21:12.480 He was probably told by Hayden, just go after this guy and persecute him.

00:21:15.780 And he said, okay.

00:21:16.920 So then I put in the request.

00:21:18.840 I wanted to talk to Hayden himself.

00:21:21.260 And that came back as denied.

00:21:23.300 And I'm like, okay, well, they know they're doing – they're telling me that shut your mouth and pay your penance and grovel, and we'll let you have your big-time job back again.

00:21:35.400 And that's when I had to make the choice.

00:21:37.940 And ultimately, the catalyst was telling me to wipe snow off a whole heap of cars in the motor pool, where I just snapped and said, no, no, it's time.

00:21:46.280 That's when I went to the press.

00:21:48.760 You're at that point a senior intelligence analyst.

00:21:51.360 Is that correct?

00:21:52.860 Correct.

00:21:54.200 I'm thinking, is there a union, some sort of association that can represent you?

00:21:59.420 Was there then?

00:22:00.380 Is there now?

00:22:01.040 Well, I finally went to the IG.

00:22:05.320 Now, the problem with the IG is they weren't cleared for any of these things that were going on.

00:22:09.060 So basically, the way NSA came after me is they said, because I thought that this young lady that I worked with may have been a Chinese spy,

00:22:20.000 and she exhibited all the classic tales of someone who might be involved in espionage with a DIA, who was a DIA employee, Defense Intelligence Agency.

00:22:31.040 And I went to security at DIA.

00:22:36.600 And right when I went to security and basically wrote up a thing on this, this young lady's mother showed up.

00:22:43.200 And her mother was a bigwig in the Democratic Party and had some high-powered jobs in DOD. 0.99

00:22:48.880 She showed up at DIA down at the DIAC at Fort Belvoir, I mean at the Bowling Air Force Base.

00:22:57.260 And she wasn't supposed to be there.

00:22:58.980 She didn't have the clearance.

00:22:59.820 And yet somehow she got up to the office where, not in my vault, but into the main office where my boss was,

00:23:06.620 and vehemently saying she needed to talk to her daughter, who was at a meeting at the Pentagon.

00:23:14.020 So to me, that means the word got out to the mom that daughter is now being investigated.

00:23:18.780 And this is mom coming to say, hey, we got a problem.

00:23:23.560 Then the head of security at DIA.

00:23:25.440 This is what I don't understand.

00:23:28.580 Forgive me.

00:23:29.300 I don't understand how that pertains to you.

00:23:31.580 How is that your problem?

00:23:32.540 This was the avenue that they ultimately came at me and said that I was crazy because I thought a colleague might be involved in espionage.

00:23:41.280 And nine months after my routine psych eval, which I passed with flying colors, not quite flying colors, but I passed.

00:23:47.760 But they said I'm a black and white thinker.

00:23:49.720 But nonetheless, they said, now you're paranoid crazy because you think a fellow employee.

00:23:56.160 Russ, I've got to stop you there.

00:23:57.360 We're taking a quick break.

00:23:58.960 We're talking with Russ Tice, former senior NSA intel analyst.

00:24:02.320 And whistleblower.

00:24:03.280 We'll find out what's going on with his colleagues and whether or not there was a Chinese spy ring operating within NSA when we come right back after these quick messages from our sponsors.

00:24:16.740 We're back now with Russ Tice.

00:24:18.840 And Russ, I've got to get back to your story about the mother of your colleague at the agency.

00:24:23.840 What happened after she showed up or where she wasn't even supposed to be able to gain entry?

00:24:29.600 Well, yeah, that happened.

00:24:32.220 And then I get word because I'm in this special vault, in the SAP vault where we have all the super classified stuff.

00:24:40.560 And one of my colleagues came from over the office side where my boss had his nice office that overlooked the airport and the Potomac River and the Pentagon and said, you wouldn't believe this.

00:24:51.900 But her mom just showed up here and is talking to our boss and demands to see her. 1.00

00:24:58.360 And she's not even here.

00:24:59.760 She's at the Pentagon at a meeting.

00:25:01.280 And I'm like – so I immediately called the head of security at DIA, the counterintelligence head.

00:25:07.620 And I said, you won't believe this, but her mom is here right now.

00:25:11.000 He goes, you're kidding me.

00:25:12.080 I said, yeah.

00:25:13.240 So then that was it.

00:25:15.340 And then he told me a couple days later that he said, this is a big deal and this is – we're doing an investigation.

00:25:20.600 And then about a week and a half after that or maybe two weeks I called and said to the counterintelligence head at DIA, I said, well, what's going on?

00:25:29.180 He goes, the entire investigation has been dropped.

00:25:31.780 And I said, what?

00:25:33.360 He goes, yeah, there's nothing there.

00:25:36.480 And I said, really?

00:25:38.260 He goes, the official word is there's nothing there and that's it.

00:25:42.860 And I'm like dumbfounded at this point.

00:25:46.080 Like, you're kidding me.

00:25:47.920 So had you told somebody that she was under investigation?

00:25:52.100 They told me that she was under investigation, especially after I called and told them that the mother had showed up – had shown up at our office where she shouldn't have been.

00:26:02.360 So how did that play in any way into your problems as a whistleblower and getting ready to make your decision about your life-altering change of direction?

00:26:15.300 So what they're doing is they're looking for some reason to pin on me to take my clearance or at least for a period of penance.

00:26:25.760 So what they did, I was in the office amidst all this stuff, getting ready for war and finding out that NSA was spying on all these people, Congress and the Supreme Court and the FISA Court and all these folks in our own government.

00:26:40.640 And they came out and – oh, that's right about the time where there was two FBI agents.

00:26:46.720 One, his name was Cleveland, and I think the other one was Jones or Smith or something like that.

00:26:51.140 Well, both of them were sleeping with a Chinese spy and giving the Chinese spy classified information.

00:26:56.640 Russ, I've got to tell you, this story is getting bigger and bigger by the moment.

00:27:06.300 It's spreading out.

00:27:07.960 So you've got two FBI agents, and I'm going to assume those are their real names, Clarence and Smith.

00:27:15.540 Where did they come from, and how do you know they're sleeping with a Chinese spy who apparently isn't under investigation?

00:27:22.820 Well, I think his name was Cleveland and Smith.

00:27:24.920 Well, it came out in the press.

00:27:27.480 They got caught.

00:27:29.140 So it comes out in the press.

00:27:30.320 These two FBI guys are banging around with the same young lady, and apparently they didn't know that they were sleeping with the same girl and giving up information.

00:27:41.360 So I contacted the security office at the same counterintelligence guy at DIA and said, 0.57

00:27:50.580 You know what just happened with the FBI clowns that are, you know, tromping around with the Chinese spy? 0.50

00:27:58.540 I said, Now you're going to tell me that there was nothing, that there was no investigation, you know, that you couldn't find anything?

00:28:05.260 So basically I said, I said the FBI cannot be trusted to do counterintelligence investigations because ultimately the counterintelligence guy at DIA was working with the FBI.

00:28:17.320 It's this investigation.

00:28:18.780 It just got tossed in the can even before it really got off the ground.

00:28:23.120 So he was like, Hey, you know, I just do what I'm told.

00:28:26.100 You know, that's the way it is.

00:28:28.340 So right after that happened, and that was right about the time that I was contacting the same units about and finding out that NSA was domestically spying on all these important people and doing all the metadata on pretty much everybody.

00:28:42.780 And so that was, I think, their justification was that under what program was that, Russ?

00:28:51.500 Well, they ultimately called it the TSP, the Terrorist Surveillance Program.

00:28:58.500 And ironically, there was no such thing as the Terrorist Surveillance Program.

00:29:02.320 It didn't exist.

00:29:03.300 They made that name up just so that the to make it sound like for the for the public, for the public that, oh, my goodness, you know, terrorist surveillance program.

00:29:12.560 You know, you know, we got to find those those terrorists.

00:29:15.280 But there was actually Stellar Wind was the umbrella name of what was going on, of which of which there was a whole lot of subcategory of the programs underneath the big umbrella of Stellar Wind.

00:29:31.040 Well, you know, we're going to have to we're going to have to call another cliffhanger here.

00:29:37.320 You know, let's pick this up this week.

00:29:41.160 What do you think about that?

00:29:42.560 But where we're headed is for your decision to actually go to Congress, right?

00:29:48.020 Correct.

00:29:48.580 Yes.

00:29:48.800 See, that happened after the effort.

00:29:51.380 Well, I was I was in contact with The New York Times.

00:29:55.800 And and that's that's a whole nother story.

00:29:59.160 And it's just just dealing with that.

00:30:01.060 Right.

00:30:01.220 And and my folks in the nothing's happening.

00:30:05.760 I know they have they have the correct information, but it's not coming out in the press.

00:30:10.080 And matter of fact, I was even I called Bill Gertz, a reporter in national security.

00:30:16.180 And I said, Bill, I got this huge story for you.

00:30:18.320 And he goes, I'm too busy.

00:30:19.560 I got to I'm on the deadline to write this book, which is ironically, I think, was about China.

00:30:23.820 But I said, it's a pretty big story.

00:30:26.640 And he goes, well, you know, he goes, well, I hear about it.

00:30:29.480 I said, you're going to hear about it soon.

00:30:30.800 So then I contacted this young lady.

00:30:33.340 I think her name was Rebecca Carr that I talked to.

00:30:36.260 Her husband worked for the Chicago Tribune and he was a national security correspondent.

00:30:40.020 So I was going to try to get her husband and she worked for who she worked for whom? 1.00

00:30:45.940 I think she worked for McClatchy, but I'd have to double check on that.

00:30:51.000 But her name was Rebecca Carr.

00:30:52.620 And I was trying to get her husband.

00:30:54.960 And right about that time when I was in the process of pinning pinning her and her husband down, that's that's when they finally hit the press.

00:31:02.900 And that was in, like, December of the December 16th of 2005.

00:31:11.040 But but ironically, what came out in the in the the that initial article about domestic spying?

00:31:19.340 Don't don't give away anything.

00:31:21.160 We're going to pick that up next week when we talk with us, as we conclude before taking up next week.

00:31:28.580 What do you think the odds are that the Chinese would have infiltrated our intelligence agencies?

00:31:36.640 Well, you've got to realize that at D.I.A., I worked in an office that dealt with these super secret SAP program, special access programs.

00:31:43.540 And this young lady, this this of Chinese origin, she worked in that office, too.

00:31:51.480 And she was very young.

00:31:52.500 And and to me, she's, you know, normally when you get a job in an office like that, it's you've already been in the intelligence community for a while and you've proven yourself.

00:32:00.640 So so you're sort of like like the creme de la creme of the intelligence analysts and the officers in the world before you can get to that position.

00:32:09.220 And I always thought she was kind of young.

00:32:11.040 She went to Georgetown and she'd only been out of school for just a couple of years and with her bachelor's at Georgetown.

00:32:16.880 And and she would she would ask a lot of questions that wasn't they were not in her lane and she stayed late into the evenings.

00:32:25.080 All these things are, you know, indicative of someone who's in but she she vehemently did not want the United States to be involved in supporting Taiwan in any way.

00:32:33.980 So these are also and she she lived a very her clothing was very expensive.

00:32:39.940 She drove an expensive car. 0.99

00:32:41.280 She lived an expensive lifestyle and her her military, her government grade salary did not warrant such a such a living expenses.

00:32:51.960 So these were all things that ultimately I said to myself, there's something going on here.

00:32:58.060 Thanks, as always, to Russ Tice for his insight.

00:33:00.820 I hope you'll be with us for our next talks with Russ.

00:33:03.320 We always learn something tomorrow.

00:33:05.820 Our guest is Mike McCormick, White House stenographer for some 20 years.

00:33:10.340 And Mike says he witnessed Biden corruption up close and personal.

00:33:15.400 And he has a few thoughts about President Obama as well.

00:33:19.120 Please join us tomorrow.

00:33:20.320 It's a fascinating story or stories.

00:33:23.520 And why won't the FBI listen to him?

00:33:26.700 I said it's fascinating, didn't I?

00:33:28.840 Please be with us tomorrow.

00:33:30.060 Till then.

00:33:30.960 Thank you.

00:33:31.860 And God bless you.

The Great America Show - April 24, 2023

NSA WHISTLEBLOWER SAYS OUR INTEL AGENCIES HAVE BEEN SPYING ON OUR CITIZENS, GOVT OFFICIALS, CONGRESS AND SENATE, SUPREME CT. FOR 20 YEARS

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