OUR CONSTITUTION AND OUR LEGAL SYSTEM ARE ON TRIAL—NOT DONALD TRUMP, SAYS NY ATTORNEY AMEER BENNO
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Summary
Donald Trump has been charged with 34 counts of falsifying business records, a crime that carries a maximum penalty of five years in prison and a fine of up to $250,000. President Trump calls the charges against him a travesty of political persecution.
Transcript
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Hello, everybody. I'm Lou Dobbs, and this is The Great America Show. Welcome, and we're delighted
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you're with us. The Marxist Dems made more history yesterday, defiling the rule of law,
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dishonoring our Constitution, and once again, politically persecuting President Donald Trump,
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this time with an unprecedented indictment of a president, an indictment alleging 34 counts of
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violating New York state law by falsifying business records. Here is Trump attorney Joe
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Takapina, his take on the case. Today's unsealing of this indictment shows that the rule of law died
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in this country because while everyone is not above the law, no one's below it either, and if
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this man's name was not Donald J. Trump, there is no scenario we'd all be here today. Please
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understand that based on these charges. The indictment with no narrative, just 34 repetitious
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charges of what are in New York misdemeanors, and somehow the DA thinks that amounts to a violation
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of state, not federal, election laws, and somehow he thinks again the number of misdemeanors
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magically convert to a felony. Amir Benno is not impressed with the DA's case. The former Manhattan
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assistant district attorney says if the DA had a legitimate case, he would have put more information
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into his indictment. When you see it, it's very skeletal. I mean, it doesn't need to have more
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information legally speaking, but just you would think that he would include more information because
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the public is hungry for that information. And the fact that he's keeping it out of the indictment,
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you can't help but think that he did that intentionally in order to keep it from the public.
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This indictment and the drama in New York is all on its face, pure nonsense cogitated up by a Marxist
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district attorney who campaigned on his promise. 100 times he promised to indict President Trump.
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He's a Trump hater, of course, so's the judge in the case, whose daughter reportedly worked in the
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Kamala Harris campaign. As President Trump put it himself, he got only 1% of the vote in Manhattan,
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so he'd like the trial to be moved to Staten Island. But the Manhattan Marxists have their hooks in the
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case, and it is a long shot to win a change of venue. Even William Barr, President Trump's former
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attorney general, who is now a Trump hater, says the indictment is an abomination. Pathetically weak.
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Even Barr says that. Mr. Trump blasted Fox for putting Barr on the air, who he calls weak for
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his refusal to investigate and prosecute what President Trump calls the massive election fraud
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of 2020. President Trump is seriously angry with the Murdochs and the Fox News network.
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That's why Trump chose Newsmax for his remarks to the country after returning to Mar-a-Lago.
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The only crime that I have committed is to fearlessly defend our nation from those who
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From the beginning, the Democrats spied on my campaign. Remember that? And now this massive
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election interference at a scale never seen before in our country, beginning with the radical
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left, George Soros-backed prosecutor, Alvin Bragg of New York, who campaigned on the fact
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that he would get President Trump. I'm going to get him. I'm going to get him. This is a
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As it turns out, virtually everybody that has looked at this case, including rhinos and even
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hardcore Democrats, say there is no crime and that it should never have been brought.
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But now they have really stepped up their efforts by indicting the 45th president.
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Joining us now to put this historic and dark day in American history in context
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is Amir Benno. Amir is an appellate and constitutional law attorney, recognized as one of the top
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lawyers in New York and First Amendment and civil rights law. Amir, thanks for being with
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us. Great to have you here. Your reaction to the day's events?
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Well, it's great to be here. And I wish it was under different circumstances, but I concur with
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you entirely. This is really a travesty. You know, Fielding Mellish would say a sham of a travesty
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of two travesties of a sham of of of the judicial process. And I'm in agreement with you about the
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fact that having this case be regardless of what you might think of Donald Trump or you might think
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of the merits or demerits of any of these other matters in which accusations have been lodged against
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him. For this case to be at the vanguard really, really is. I mean, it it it paints the others in
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a light that you can't help but think that they're all just targeting Donald Trump for political reasons
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and everybody would have good reason to have that kind of, you know, view of this. And so I have to
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imagine that the Department of Justice and both the independent counsel or special counsel and
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the case in Georgia, they must be livid about this, because I think he's really unfortunately
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contaminated all of those cases. Well, as if the previous seven years hasn't, we have watched this
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man coming in on a motorcade to go to the courthouse in Manhattan to be arraigned and to face these
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charges on the part of, frankly, what I I'm going to say it this way, a two bit local prosecutor who
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is obviously nothing more than a political hack. I mean, there's no other explanation for this,
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because the who is the victim here? How did who who gained by the Constitution? The Constitution's
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the victim, the the taxpayers, the citizens, Americans were all the victim in this. You're
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entirely correct. He is too bad. This is this is penny ante stuff. I mean, to bring this there's not
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even a crime here. And if you look at the indictment, it is it's laughable. There's no facts included in
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it, which may in and of itself not be that unusual. But when you are bringing a case against a former
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president and an announced declared candidate for the presidency, you better have the goods,
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you really better have the goods. And there were it was nothing that Alvin Bragg showed today that
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showed that he had any goods. He is relying on on gossamer on on almost threads to to to make the
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argument that there's a case he's going to run into problems with the statute of limitations. He's
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advancing untested legal theories about prosecuting under state law, a federal candidate and trying
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to apply New York state campaign finance laws to that. He's relying on a convicted felon and a liar
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in order to do it. And he's ignoring many defenses that Donald Trump has to this, not least of which
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is that there's perfectly innocuous reasons why somebody would classify these kinds of payments
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the way that Donald Trump did. And but again, all of this points towards the reality, which is this is
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a political hack, like you said, who is there for one political objective. Maybe there's a local
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objective. He he's he's pandering to his constituents in Manhattan, who overwhelmingly detest Donald Trump
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and support the Democrat Party. And at a national level, he's angling to make Donald Trump the center of
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the conversation and to divide the GOP and unify the the Democrats. At least that's his hope. I think
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it's going to backfire spectacularly. Well, we have early occasions that it's backfiring because the
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Republican Party, even rhinos are joining up in the polling that we're seeing in dismissing the very idea
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of this prosecution for every reason from it's straightforwardly trying to interfere in a federal
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election, trying to to shut down a man who is the presumptive Republican nominee for 2024, as well as
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the former president of the United States against any president. There has never been an indictment filed
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or sought. This is outrageous. And that I have you have seen lots of indictments. I've seen few. But
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when I look down and I see 34 charges that are all basically the same language, the same, you know,
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statement, I and it doesn't I not a single one of those to me seem like a crime, particularly when
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there is no victim asserted. And and Donald Trump is on. It is just such a pathetic piece of it's a
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pathetic document because it just doesn't say much. It just says too much. Thirty four times.
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Yeah, I mean, it's it really it's quantity over quality. And, you know, if they're throwing in 34
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counts, it's to create the impression that there must be something of substance there, because why else would
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you charge somebody with 34 crimes unless there was really some merit to it? But really what this is,
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it's like somebody shoplifting a bag of of M&Ms and a single bag and then the D.A. cutting it open and
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saying, well, you know what? There's 75 M&Ms in this bag. We're going to charge 75 separate counts.
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And that's what it comes down to. It is it it demonstrates the weakness of his case that he had to do
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this. And look, if he had a legitimate case, he would have put more information into this indictment.
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When you see it, it's very skeletal. I mean, it doesn't need to have more information, legally
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speaking, but just you would think that he would include more information because the public is
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hungry for that information. And the fact that he's keeping it out of the indictment,
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you can't help but but but think that he did that intentionally in order to keep it from the public.
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Well, and and Donald Trump is furious that the these 34 quote unquote charges were leaked.
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Oh, 100 percent. I mean, only D.A. Bragg or somebody in the grand jury would have access to
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this information or somebody in D.A. Bragg's office of one of his subordinates would have access to
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this. And so and there's state law that makes it criminal to leak this information. But yet they've
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done it. And what's what's galling about it is and we don't know what necessarily took place inside the
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arraignment courtroom because there was no audio recording of it, although I'm sure we're going to
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get we're going to get that information soon. But if the D.A. was pushing for some sort of gag order
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on Donald Trump, while at the same time they are leaking information, I mean, this is the stuff that
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you saw from Andy McCabe, you know, when he was fired for for leaking information from the federal
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government. We're seeing it now on the state and local level. This is in order to kneecap your
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political opponent. That is not what our criminal justice apparatus is intended to do.
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Well, President Trump had to sit there and watch that judge who he knows, as he said this out loud
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previous to the to the day, saying that the man is a Trump hater and documented his daughter
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worked for Kamala Harris in her campaign. There's just there's just no room here for any conclusion
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other than this is political from top to bottom through and through. And there's no defense against
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the charge that I can say. I see no evidence of anything but politics, partisanship. And and somebody
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wants to be a Bolshevik. I mean, this is the stuff of using the law, lawfare. This is a war on a man
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by by people who really should not be holding the post they do, whether a judge or a district attorney,
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in my opinion. Right. And, you know, this is exactly what Putin did to Alexander Navalny,
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you know, taking throwing him in the gulag, essentially, because he was a political opponent.
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This is like you correctly said, is Stalinist. It's Maoist. It's total communist. We expect this
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in banana republics. And, you know, it should come as no surprise. Alvin Bragg has tried to subvert
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the rule of law since day one. He released that day one memo where he says, look, we're not going
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to prosecute for any variety of felony and misdemeanor offenses and decides that he's going to,
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you know, go the opposite direction, though, when it comes to his political nemesis.
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That should tell everybody all they need to know about who this person is.
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It's it's it's really unfortunate. I think that there is no gag order. I'm seeing that there is
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reporting that that the judge did not issue a gag order, which is good. So we will hear from Donald
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Trump himself later today about this and about what happened. But boy, I'll tell you, they have really
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targeted this man. And, you know, one thing's important. I want to point out, Lou, is that
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one of the lawyers on his team, Todd Blanche, who's a newcomer to the team, he was a federal
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prosecutor at the Southern District of New York. And then he went to work as a partner in the
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white collar criminal defense side of Kid Wallet or Wickersham and Taft, which is a very prominent
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New York law firm. He actually had to leave his firm. I don't know whether they pushed him out or he did
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it on his own because he didn't want to cause any sort of negative publicity. But the fact that
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representing the former president and potentially the the next president of the United States in this
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kind of case would require you to step away from your firm tells you where we're at. The same thing
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happened to Paul Clement, who argued the Bruin case, the Second Amendment case in this in the sec
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in the Supreme Court. They sort of pushed him out of Kirkland and Ellis because he was going to bat
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and arguing for constitutional rights. This is where we're at. Everything is turned on its head. You
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take a position to to support and defend the Constitution and the Bolsheviks, whether they're
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in law firms or in corporate industry or in government or in the media, are going to sick their dogs on you.
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And and there are lawyers all over this country, some often the brightest and most capable attorneys
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forced out of big law. The major firms making, I'm going to say, I think, securely millions of dollars
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a year being forced out of firms because they made the mistake of supporting Donald Trump, supporting one
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of the issues that is his agenda, supporting those who, frankly, are in MAGA. And the big firms can't
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stand it because big, big corporations, the globalists mean mean to win the day. And they're all complicit.
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There's no way to deny this. The big law, big multinationals, global multinationals. We used to
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call them U.S. multinationals, but their their loyalties are much bigger than just poor little
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America. We're watching a country right now in the throes of an awareness suddenly thrust upon us
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because we see what this country really is. The legal system is corrupt. The judges are corrupt.
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We talk about January 6th. My Lord, there's no American who cares about this country and this republic
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and understands what's at stake. They cannot just be sickened at what we have seen federal judges do
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in their over sentencing, in their dismissal of, frankly, due process. U.S. attorneys, I should say,
00:17:10.420
DOJ prosecutors pushing through ridiculous prosecutions. It is just it's just a sad moment in
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time. And this to me, I don't know what your thoughts are, but this is just another example
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of a of a of a country that is really going quickly in the wrong way.
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I agree. And, you know, bringing up January 6th and the lack of due process for all of them. And by
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the way, make no mistake, people were afraid to go out and to protest, which is their First Amendment
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right to do it outside of the courthouse today in support of Donald Trump, because they're concerned
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that they're going to be swept up in a dragnet, just like many of the January Sixers were, and that
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they're going to have, you know, their phones subpoenaed and they're going to be, you know,
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scooped up a year from now by by some federal authority and and and denied their due process.
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And let's see what happens. You know, January 6th. Remember, the federal government went above and
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beyond to pierce what is normally been the held sacrosanct, the attorney client privilege between
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Donald Trump and whether it was Professor Eastman or his lawyers. And you've had multiple courts who
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have said, you know, had to really do some legal gymnastics to say, no, that attorney client privilege
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doesn't exist for Donald Trump, because his conversations with his lawyers fall into something
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known as the crime fraud exception. And so even that that that necessary pillar of effective
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assistance of counsel to be able to speak candidly to your lawyer and get advice with respect to Donald
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Trump has been completely gutted. And is that going to happen in this case with Alvin Bragg? Is Joe
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Takapina, Todd Blanche, are they going to find that their conversations with Donald Trump are going
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to be subject to the same legal legal arguments as or Donald Trump's conversations with his lawyers on
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the federal side of things? I mean, that is really an erosion of our civil liberties in our, you know,
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what we've always sort of assumed is due process protections that we have. And so that's why today it's
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it's not just Donald Trump who was arraigned today. I don't mean this in to wax poetic about it. But
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really, the Constitution is on trial. In this case, it's on trial. And these people who are
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shredding our Constitution are on trial, in my opinion, as well, because the American people are
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not going to long tell or tolerate this. I should say won't tolerate it much longer. Seven years is way too
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much to have tolerated it. We, you know, we can relitigate everything, we can talk about it. But the
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fact is, seven years, two special counsel investigations now, two impeachments, four years of FBI
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investigation, they couldn't find a single act of wrongdoing on this part of this president. And yet here he is
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persecuted by the same partisan hacks, the Marxist Dems. And let me be clear, ladies and gentlemen, this is a
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statement of absolute fact. The Democrat Party is no more. The Marxist Dems are driving this party
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and orchestrating what they see as their ultimate goal, which is the destruction of everything about
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this republic. Anything that you and I think of as American is is opposed and hated by the Marxist Dems
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who mean to turn this country. Barack Obama talked about fundamental transformation through his two
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terms. We're in what I believe is the third term of Barack Obama, and they seek nothing less than
00:21:05.180
fundamental transformation of this great republic. I want to turn to a couple. One thing that developed
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today on this very day, ironically, an appellate court ruled that his top White House aides,
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his top presidential aides, have to testify in a January 6th case, speaking of executive privilege,
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attorney-client privilege, this man has no privilege whatsoever. I can't think of anything
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that the courts have not been willing to strip him of. You're right. And, you know, this is part and
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parcel of sort of the Democrats' playbook where they have been tearing down all sorts of important
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structural protections, whether it's constitutional or otherwise. For instance, you can try to eliminate
00:21:55.920
the filibuster and then eliminating it and trying to make additional Puerto Rico, D.C. states to be able
00:22:04.840
to add senators who are, you know, of their political persuasion. Things of that nature where
00:22:13.320
they can't win in the marketplace of ideas that they are trying to now reshape the playing field and
00:22:21.220
move the goalposts in order to accomplish their objectives. And this is just another corruption of
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of an institution, in this case, the judiciary, where they have eliminated, like we talked about,
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attorney-client privilege, executive privilege. You know, Mike Pence is arguing on the speech and
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debate clause, really just the constitution and separation of powers. And this is, you know,
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packing the court. It's another one where they've tried to, they've threatened to destroy an
00:22:51.280
institution unless it caves to their, their desires. And so it is, it is, we are witnessing a very rapid
00:23:00.640
decline right now. And it's, it's, it's, it's frightening. I hope with this case, I mean, there's very capable
00:23:07.660
counsel representing Donald Trump. I think that, you know, they have very strong arguments. Obviously, there's the
00:23:14.920
statute of limitations argument here, which, you know, reaches back for these felony crimes.
00:23:20.900
Five years, these events, if you look at the indictment happened in 2017, which is six years
00:23:26.900
ago. And I have a feeling that what Alvin Bragg is going to rely on is the state of New York put a hold
00:23:35.040
on the statutes of limitations during the COVID-19 lockdown. So they lock down everybody, they destroy
00:23:41.220
the economy, and they help destroy the rule of law as well, allowing politically motivated prosecutors
00:23:48.280
like Bragg to be able to reach back and to bring cases that would, by all accounts, you know, be dead and gone.
00:23:58.500
And so that's, that's something I think that they're going to argue the DA and, and hopefully, hopefully you
00:24:03.200
mentioned this, this judge, this judge might very well be, you know, biased against Donald Trump. I hope that if, if
00:24:10.280
evidence comes out that he is, I know Donald Trump has said overtly that he, that he is, uh, that they'll
00:24:14.840
make a, they'll make a motion for recusal, but the chances of that being successful are, unfortunately,
00:24:22.700
Recusal, to me, seems to be straightforwardly in order, but we also know what the, the court system is. It won't happen.
00:24:31.500
Uh, there is every reason to change the venue. We also know that won't happen or will it counselor.
00:24:40.420
I, well, they'll definitely make the motion. I don't think it will happen. Um, you know, I think,
00:24:46.280
I just don't think it will happen. Uh, those are very hard motions to win. Um, but you know,
00:24:54.120
make no mistake. Alvin Bragg knows, uh, that Manhattan is overwhelmingly against Donald Trump.
00:24:59.680
And I think part of his motivation in doing this, aside from, uh, wanting to climb up the ladder
00:25:05.340
nationally in terms of, uh, name recognition and, uh, just being power hungry is, uh, locally,
00:25:13.000
he knows that, uh, his constituents, uh, will like what he's doing. And I have to assume that most people
00:25:20.060
who live in Manhattan are, are supportive of what Alvin Bragg is doing just because they detest Donald
00:25:26.780
Trump. And they couldn't care less about the fact that he's throwing the constitution to the curb and
00:25:30.940
he's destroying separation of powers. And he's bringing, um, he's bringing, uh, a Marxist
00:25:36.380
prosecution against a political opponent for no reason other than political opportunity.
00:25:41.480
They don't care about that. You know, they, they only see their, their mad desire to bring down
00:25:47.380
Donald Trump. And that has clouding their vision as to everything else. And that is really the
00:25:52.200
unfortunate thing. And we don't have, unfortunately, uh, much in the way of media, uh, mainstream media
00:25:57.220
to, to, to really highlight this. And so people are being fed lies and, uh, you know, unfortunately,
00:26:05.120
as long as you have, uh, the democratic, uh, party working with, uh, a lot of mainstream media,
00:26:12.540
it's just an extension of the democratic party. You, you, people are just not going to get the truth.
00:26:17.100
I would set us free. Uh, the saying goes, uh, truth is just being, just being run over by the
00:26:28.800
national corporate media and folks have to understand, uh, that media is corporate owned 95%
00:26:35.800
of it. Uh, they, their HR departments are totally committed to the Marxist, uh, themes of C R T E S G D E I,
00:26:44.420
uh, or if you like to invert it, I E D, uh, it's, it's, it's, it's just a sickening time because you
00:26:52.640
don't see the country even slightly, uh, resistant to it all. Uh, people are intimidated. I think for
00:27:02.780
the first time, and I, and I truly believe this for the first time, I truly believe Americans are
00:27:09.180
fearful, truly fearful. Uh, and it's partly because of January 6th. It's partly because of Antifa without
00:27:17.120
prosecution in the summer of love. I love the irony of these labels. Uh, what do you think?
00:27:24.080
Oh, there's no question about it. I mean, and you mentioned, uh, the diversity, equity, and inclusion
00:27:30.860
agenda, the ESG agenda, and all of those, and they, they are turning what the priorities, uh,
00:27:39.180
upside down. Uh, and, uh, you know, we're going back to a period of time where it's okay, uh, in the
00:27:47.420
corporate world, it's okay in government to be overtly racially discriminatory, as long as you're
00:27:53.720
discriminating against, um, say white people, or you can keep people out of college. Um, you know,
00:28:00.780
as, as long as you're not keeping, you know, they call it BIPOC, which the, the biracial indigenous
00:28:06.120
of people of color, um, you know, but they are, they think as long as you are racially
00:28:11.840
discriminatory against people who have the wrong skin color, that it's okay. And that is, uh, that
00:28:18.820
sort of, uh, recalibration of what people think is constitutional or permissible when it's clearly
00:28:26.340
not is, uh, is so problematic. And the problem is, is it's festering in schools and in colleges,
00:28:35.260
right. And all sorts of halls of academic, you know, what should be academic learning. And so
00:28:41.140
these, uh, youth are getting indoctrinated with these views and they believe that these are the
00:28:46.520
correct views to have. And they're, they just are not being taught basic civics. They're not being
00:28:51.440
taught the importance of the constitution or what the constitution even says. And so it's not surprising
00:28:56.340
that we're seeing, uh, you know, these agendas, not just take root, but blossom.
00:29:01.440
Um, and to, and to give the devil its due, uh, the Marxist Dems thought this out decades ago,
00:29:09.980
uh, when they started pushing, uh, the, uh, the indoctrination of education, uh, students,
00:29:16.900
uh, in colleges and universities around the country, then they pushed it, uh, farther, uh, into, uh,
00:29:23.000
the public school systems. Uh, they have now teachers who are, uh, indoctrinated Marxist
00:29:30.260
leftists. Uh, we saw a demonstration after demonstration of that reality during the, uh,
00:29:35.900
the pandemic, uh, and whose side were they on the students? No, they were on the side of
00:29:41.200
the unions, uh, and the Marxist left who wanted to shut down, uh, for political purposes, shut
00:29:48.340
down an economy and a society and they achieved it. Uh, it's one example after another. And to,
00:29:55.720
to, to think of all that has been destroyed in just the past two years, the border is wide open.
00:30:04.680
The, the Biden administration is for all practical purposes in effect, uh, aligned with the Marxist,
00:30:12.900
uh, narco, uh, uh, alliance between China and the, the, the cartels, uh, and they're distributing
00:30:22.360
death and Americans are dying by the hundreds of thousands. We have a president who's talking about
00:30:27.100
what is happening in Ukraine while there is a slaughter underway, uh, as fentanyl, uh, is being
00:30:34.160
pushed through every distribution system in this country. If there's no one is safe in this country
00:30:40.280
right now. That's part of the reason why Alvin Bragg is bringing this case, because if this is a great
00:30:48.700
distraction from the failings of the Biden administration, because we're not talking
00:30:55.020
about any of these things, uh, right now, most, most of the news is just captivated with this as,
00:31:00.440
as it should be. But the fact is, is, you know, make Donald Trump the center of the conversation.
00:31:05.520
He's their favorite boogeyman to distract from these, these colossal failings of the Biden
00:31:12.040
administration. Like you said, when it comes to the border, when it comes to national security,
00:31:15.900
I mean, look, we found out that in fact, the spy balloon, we also surmised it was a spy balloon.
00:31:21.660
Uh, but now we know it in fact was a spy balloon. We've got the Chinese buying up land next to military
00:31:27.260
installations across the country. Biden's doing nothing about it. We, uh, we have fentanyl,
00:31:33.700
uh, that like you correctly mentioned is, uh, killing our kids, uh, not just kids, uh, people
00:31:40.180
across all social and economic, uh, ranges. And he's doing nothing to shut down the border and to
00:31:47.100
make our country safer. The inflation is out of control. The economy is a disaster. And what can he
00:31:54.020
do, uh, to run? He can try to change the conversation and try to make it about Donald Trump.
00:31:59.420
And so of course, what Alvin Bragg is doing, uh, as a good leftist, uh, as a good Maoist soldier that
00:32:07.320
he is, is to help change that narrative. And that's exactly why, uh, Joe Biden is not speaking
00:32:14.500
out. Joe Biden's, the administration could have called up Alvin Bragg, could have called up the
00:32:19.080
DA's office and said, stand down. Don't do this. You're going to interfere with our January 6th
00:32:25.720
investigation, our Mar-a-Lago documents investigation, any of it. Um, but you know
00:32:31.660
what? It distracts from his failings. It distracts from Hunter Biden. Green light, go ahead and do it,
00:32:37.700
Alvin. That's exactly what Joe Biden is saying. And there's, there's some others who are frozen,
00:32:43.260
but out of cowardice. Uh, you talked about the Supreme court. Uh, there's also outright intimidation,
00:32:51.200
the administration and Merrick Garland's, uh, uh, attorney general office ordering, uh, no prosecution
00:33:01.280
of, uh, of demonstrators against those conservative justices, no prosecution. If they were arrested,
00:33:08.240
the insults go on and on the insults against both, uh, the, the lives of those justices and
00:33:15.420
the constitution, as you point out, it is a, it is a time of fear. And it is a time right now for the
00:33:24.760
American people to find out, uh, who's on their side and who, uh, are trying to destroy them.
00:33:30.840
And the latter group is led by the Marxist Dems, uh, who control this compromised and impaired president,
00:33:38.780
uh, uh, who is ostensibly leading the country at least, uh, and all that, uh, the federal government
00:33:46.640
is just tearing us under, uh, in the name of progressive policy. It's the farthest thing from
00:33:52.860
that. I I'd like to return to these, this case today, you said, uh, that, uh, there should have
00:34:00.500
been a call from the white house. There has obviously been interaction between the justice department,
00:34:06.220
Biden's justice department, and Alvin Bragg's, uh, district attorney office, uh, to the extent
00:34:12.840
people have been, uh, apparently lent, uh, to the office for the purpose of this in this indictment
00:34:19.960
today. How is that not a conflict of interest and how is that in any way appropriate? It's,
00:34:26.920
it's, I mean, it's not, there are times where people are cross designated from federal to state
00:34:31.680
and state to federal, but in this case, this is precisely why we have oversight. This is why
00:34:37.200
we have James Comer and Jim Jordan, uh, demanding that Alvin Bragg produce documents. And ultimately,
00:34:43.640
I think they're going to end up subpoenaing him, uh, to come down and to testify before them,
00:34:48.900
because he has to explain why is he, why is he, he took federal money. Uh, he admits in his letter
00:34:56.640
that a portion of that money went towards, uh, some of the investigations into the crimes that
00:35:02.040
he charged against Donald Trump. Uh, they're allowed to examine that. And what I think is going
00:35:08.600
to be interesting, the shoes on the other foot now is if Bragg, uh, decides to flout a subpoena,
00:35:14.000
which I think is going to be inevitable, uh, will he be referred? Will they vote out a referral for
00:35:19.960
contempt? Like they did Peter Navarro and, uh, Steve Bannon. And of course, we can't expect that
00:35:26.680
Merrick Garland's department of justice will do anything about it, but you know what? In 2024,
00:35:31.960
hopefully the administration will change and we'll still be within the statute of limitations.
00:35:36.280
I think there'll be a reckoning at that point for Alvin Bragg federally.
00:35:40.280
This is a question. I've asked a number of guests recently, but is it possible that we should
00:35:46.200
contemplate the possibility that this government is just not equipped to deal with this level
00:35:52.920
of political corruption throughout the federal government, throughout a court system, uh,
00:35:58.040
throughout, uh, our executive, uh, branch, uh, and try to come up with countervailing influences,
00:36:05.320
uh, because there's not much left if we can't do that, uh, other than, uh, civil disobedience, uh,
00:36:13.160
uh, and, and unthinkable and unacceptable, uh, alternatives you're thinking.
00:36:22.200
I don't, I don't know what you have in mind with that. Um, I do think that our government is equipped
00:36:28.840
to handle this. I think that if we hew closely to the constitution, uh, that that's the great roadmap
00:36:35.880
for, for how we should divide the powers between, uh, the federal and the state. I think we,
00:36:42.440
there are always going to be these tensions. It's, it's, how are we going to resolve them?
00:36:47.240
And, uh, I, I think our system is great when it works. I think we are at a point in our history,
00:36:54.760
however, where, um, for a variety of reasons, we've talked to touch on some of them, uh, a lot
00:37:00.920
having to do with indoctrination in the schools, uh, and the lack of basic civics, uh, education,
00:37:08.200
where, where people don't understand these, uh, our system or, or the importance of our constitution.
00:37:14.280
And so I do think we have to get back to, to, to those things. And I think that's where the
00:37:20.840
solution is and, uh, regulation possibly. Um, I guess, I guess we'll have to see. I mean,
00:37:26.760
I'm not one to regulate media generally because I love the first amendment. Uh, but, you know,
00:37:31.560
it's something to consider, you know, some of these section 230, uh, uh, proposals that, uh,
00:37:38.760
when it comes down to social media and, uh, the proliferation of some false information, uh,
00:37:44.280
that, that I think can be very, very damaging, of course, always consistent with the first amendment.
00:37:50.600
Yeah, I think, uh, is likewise a supporter of the first one. My, my answer is to make certain
00:37:57.960
there is no regulation, uh, of the first amendment, uh, of the first amendment, uh, and that, uh, where
00:38:04.520
we see any, uh, any force, uh, arrayed against, uh, free expression, uh, and freedom of speech assembly,
00:38:13.240
all of the first amendment that we, we stamp it out through our legal system. That isn't even possible
00:38:20.200
now because there's just no, uh, when you said that we've, that's the way we've always done it.
00:38:26.200
I think everybody senses that this is different. Uh, Amir, this is a different time. This is a
00:38:31.320
different moment. We don't have time as we did in world war two, for example, to prepare for war,
00:38:37.800
uh, that's a year and a half to two years away. We know for a fact we're under assault right now.
00:38:45.080
Psychological operations being run by our enemies, psyops operations also being run by the
00:38:51.000
Democrat party, the Marxist Dems against the American people. In fact, the government,
00:38:56.440
our federal government is the greatest source of disinformation, the greatest number of
00:39:01.800
disinformation campaigns against the American people, uh, out of all of those who are adversaries
00:39:08.040
or enemies of this country. Uh, it is a perilous time. And you asked, what did I have in mind as I
00:39:14.840
was talking about, uh, the alternate, uh, uh, possibilities here. We have always had within
00:39:21.880
our system, as you correctly point out the checks and balances countervailing forces at work that
00:39:29.320
have always kept us near the center, but we have, we have veered so far, uh, in, uh, in losing sight of
00:39:38.360
that, uh, possibility even let alone the, the institutional, uh, forces that work. The, the Marxist Dems are in control
00:39:46.280
of our entire federal government. There is just no doubt of it. Uh, there is no, there's no way to get a,
00:39:54.840
it seems a fair election in this country. Uh, and right now we have no choice about who we are bringing
00:40:01.160
in, uh, to the country because our Southern border is wide open. Uh, and that suits the Marxist Dems
00:40:07.480
perfectly, uh, for their agenda. Uh, it is, it is, uh, as I said, I think the most perilous time that
00:40:14.280
we've faced since the civil war. I can't disagree, uh, with any of what you said. And I, I completely
00:40:22.440
agree with you on more speech is always the way to combat, uh, never, never regulation. I wasn't
00:40:30.360
suggesting that we should clamp down on speech. I was saying that some of these protections, uh, that
00:40:36.360
have been bestowed on, on companies for, uh, spewing some of this Marxist, uh, nonsense, um,
00:40:44.760
you know, and they're entitled to protections from suit immunities, uh, you know, maybe, maybe those have
00:40:50.600
to be rethought, but, um, but I believe that we should open up the marketplace of ideas and have more and
00:40:57.800
more speech. Um, I, I think you're correct in noting that this is there, there are some real challenges
00:41:04.040
that lie ahead. I, I, I think that the answers are, uh, are hard. They're elusive to be sure. But I
00:41:12.600
think that, uh, we just need to keep energizing people, uh, informing them about, uh, the beauty
00:41:18.280
and the exceptionalism of our constitution and, uh, our system of separation of powers, uh, and of
00:41:25.320
federalism, uh, and of natural rights. And, you know, what else is really important, Lou, I think,
00:41:30.600
is there has been a, I think a very marked, um, it's true that there's been attacked by the left
00:41:38.360
on organized religion, on religion in general. And I think that that's done a huge disservice,
00:41:43.400
uh, to our country, um, because we believe that there are natural rights that are bestowed on us
00:41:50.440
by, uh, our creator. And that's why they can never be, they're not created by government. If they're
00:41:55.240
created by government, they can be taken away by government. They don't come from government. They
00:41:59.240
come from something greater than government. And when you eliminate religion, uh, from all aspects
00:42:06.200
of American life, or you somehow malign it as, uh, being a negative force, as opposed to a positive
00:42:12.840
one, you, uh, you lead to an amoral citizenry and you lead to a citizenry that's ready to just, uh,
00:42:21.560
throw overboard all of these rights that are in our bill of rights, uh, that are, are, that come from God.
00:42:28.120
And, uh, when you don't believe in God, it's easy to do that, but we don't,
00:42:32.040
we shouldn't be so quick to dispose them. So I think we need to find a way to reintroduce, uh,
00:42:37.400
faith and to, to not make it, uh, you know, a negative force, but a positive one, uh, in our society.
00:42:45.560
Well, I, I think that was perfectly said, uh, I, I, I'm going to tell you my view though,
00:42:52.920
and it runs somewhat counter and that is we right now are asking American families to tolerate media
00:43:00.840
that is absolutely toxic, uh, and viciously, uh, opposed to the American family, uh, to religion,
00:43:09.000
to a rule of law in point of fact, uh, and adoptive of what is Marxist ideology. Uh, and,
00:43:16.440
and, uh, and we really are asking too much of, I think the American people to withstand the,
00:43:22.600
the, the ferocity and the immense power of our national media. Uh, and then, uh, our schools
00:43:29.480
indoctrinated as well. Uh, they can't even, uh, send their school, their children off to school
00:43:34.920
without worrying about what a teacher is doing is saying, uh, and including, uh, genital mutilation,
00:43:43.400
uh, through, you know, gender trends, uh, transformation. It's just, it's extraordinary
00:43:50.520
what the parents are having to deal with. And I think that people have to understand there is no
00:43:55.640
hiding place. Now we have to assert our, our, our rights and we have to assert what kind of communities
00:44:03.080
want to, we want to live in. And you talk about natural rights. And as, you know, as a, you know,
00:44:10.200
as a young fellow, I was studying Locke and Rousseau, uh, like everybody else, but I have never found a
00:44:17.080
natural right. I have never found, uh, a, a right that God made universal. Uh, people talk about universal
00:44:26.840
rights, but there are none. Uh, in point of fact, the only rights in this country are rights
00:44:32.840
that have been won at the barrel of a gun, the sacrifice of the blood of patriots. Uh, and we,
00:44:41.480
we, we, we can't simply expect God to say to you, there are natural rights. Don't worry about it.
00:44:47.400
Or, or there to be universal rights are quote unquote human rights because they're in short supply
00:44:52.200
all around the world, except in this, this little nation we call America. Uh, it's, it's a very,
00:44:59.880
this is a time I think to confront what is the reality before us. Those universal rights are under
00:45:06.360
immense threat. And I, and I, and to that, let's turn to the indictment. Uh, where do you think we
00:45:13.320
go from here? Amir? Well, uh, on the indictment, I think we have, we're going to see a flurry of motion
00:45:21.720
practice. Uh, of course, we've talked about some of the bases for those motions to dismiss being
00:45:27.080
statute of limitations, uh, that there was no, uh, that, that the evidence in the grand jury
00:45:33.160
can't support these charges. Uh, and just so the listeners understand the, the charges here are
00:45:38.920
that there was, uh, that Donald Trump to himself or, or his subordinates ended up classifying entries
00:45:46.920
in his corporate records, his business records, I should say, um, in, in a false way with the intent
00:45:53.080
to defraud, uh, somebody. So that's a misdemeanor. What I just described is a misdemeanor. What elevates
00:45:58.800
it to a felony, and that's what they've charged is that the, the mislabeling or miscategorization
00:46:06.220
of these entries was done to conceal a crime. So the question is, is what is the crime that Donald
00:46:13.680
Trump is alleged to have concealed? The indictment does not specify, but what we understand through
00:46:18.520
the leaks and, um, through the little bit that the indictment does contain is that it is that Donald
00:46:26.560
Trump received illegal campaign contributions. He did not disclose those. So as he was required to,
00:46:35.120
to the FEC, he didn't want people to know about it. That's the allegation. And that's a crime to
00:46:39.960
receive an illegal campaign contribution. Why was it illegal? Because it was over the threshold amount
00:46:44.840
of what somebody is allowed to contribute to, because it came from corporate sources. Um,
00:46:50.300
though, that's why Alvin Bragg is saying that it's illegal, but these are, this is a very tenuous
00:46:56.720
argument. And I expect that the, there's going to be a motion to challenge the evidence in the grand
00:47:02.460
jury because Donald Trump was running for a federal office, obviously. And Alvin Bragg, we've all seemed
00:47:08.740
to think until today that Alvin Bragg was saying that the, this federal campaign finance violation is,
00:47:14.600
which is the crime that Donald Trump was allegedly concealing was a federal one, a federal crime he
00:47:20.000
was concealing. But in the indictment, it seems to indicate otherwise. He's saying that Donald Trump
00:47:24.840
was concealing a state campaign finance violation. It, it is just astonishing to me that somebody who is,
00:47:32.300
uh, running for federal office as the president, it can be subjected to New York state campaign
00:47:38.500
finance laws. And I think that's going to be subject to a challenge. Um, there's any number of other
00:47:44.360
challenges that he's going to bring, but this is going to delay the case for quite some time
00:47:48.340
litigating these. And maybe that's the Democrats objective to keep this case, you know, out there as
00:47:53.900
long as possible and not have it dismissed in a summary, summary fashion. We're going to turn to
00:48:01.320
you for, uh, your concluding thoughts as we always do. You always get the, our guests always get the last
00:48:06.400
word here, but I have one question on that. Why are, why is the idea of speedy justice? So, uh, such
00:48:15.720
anathema to federal judges, uh, state judges, uh, and attorneys. And I understand that people get paid
00:48:23.200
by the hour, uh, at least the attorneys, but why should this take until 2024 to be adjudicated?
00:48:30.360
It's on its face, a farce, uh, and a mendacious farce at that.
00:48:37.440
Well, some of it is built into our system, which is simply to allow the, the litigants time to be
00:48:44.300
able to advance these arguments, even if they have no hope of winning them at the trial level,
00:48:48.800
they need to preserve the arguments so that they can raise them on appeal. Uh, cause if you don't
00:48:53.860
raise them in the court of first instance, then you forfeit them. Uh, and so part of it is the,
00:49:00.840
the amount of time it takes to simply put in your arguments and the other side gets an opportunity
00:49:05.300
to respond and then the judge has to, to rule on it. Um, so that, that in and of itself does take
00:49:11.180
time. Um, and you know, delays, uh, also have to do with the saturation in our justice system and
00:49:18.380
the number of cases on the docket. Um, and, uh, you know, civilly speaking anyway, um, you know,
00:49:24.980
I would imagine in New York County, they're probably trying to decrease the number of cases
00:49:29.180
on the docket. That's what Alvin Bragg has been trying to do, which has been a real, uh, damaging,
00:49:34.220
um, damaging thing for, for those who live in Manhattan, uh, as violent crime is skyrocketing
00:49:43.060
crimes across all major categories is, is on the rise substantially. Um, so I, I don't know to answer
00:49:49.680
your question, whether it's, it's deliberate to drag things out in order to make somebody twist in
00:49:54.300
the wind or whether it is done in order to allow, uh, both sides their opportunity to, uh, litigate
00:50:00.660
the case in, in a fair and balanced fashion. I imagine it's a combination of both.
00:50:06.220
And with that, uh, Amir, I'd like to say, first of all, uh, that it's been terrific,
00:50:12.700
uh, listening to you, talking with you today. Uh, and as always, as I said, our guests get the last
00:50:18.420
word, uh, your concluding thoughts, if you will. Well, thank you. It has been an honor to be on
00:50:23.940
with you and to speak with you. And, uh, I mean, this to me is an inflection point, uh, today.
00:50:29.080
Right. And I hope that it is a, it's a moment that jars, uh, many Americans to see what is really
00:50:36.840
going on in this country. It's not just about a prosecution of, uh, the former and, and potential
00:50:45.160
next president. I mean, it is really the, the weaponization of our government to target political
00:50:53.820
opposition. And we saw that even when we were talking, getting back to the first amendment
00:50:57.980
issue with, with the Twitter files and the reporter Matt Taibbi had the IRS come to his house,
00:51:04.720
the one who had revealed much of, uh, of what Twitter was doing in terms of suppression
00:51:09.720
of information, having to do, uh, with the COVID vaccine and the election, uh, and all sorts
00:51:17.600
of different things. Um, we see this sort of thing happening, uh, and it hopefully today
00:51:24.660
was one of those moments where, and this is why they left, by the way, they didn't want
00:51:28.760
a mugshot. They didn't want an iconic image of Donald Trump that would circulate. They got
00:51:34.900
one of him sitting in a courtroom. And I imagine that is going to be, uh, as iconic as anything,
00:51:41.100
but, uh, they didn't want it. They, they want to, to, they, they want to have their, their
00:51:47.760
way and to suppress, uh, dissident ideas, their, their view, dissident ideas, but they don't
00:51:52.920
want people to, to wake up to the fact that they're doing it. And I hope that, that this case,
00:51:57.440
if for nothing else wakes people up to, like you said, the attack on, uh, our gov, on our way of
00:52:04.080
life, on the American way of life and our liberties, uh, because once those disappear,
00:52:08.700
we're no different than, than any third world or banana Republic. And America has always been
00:52:14.060
exceptional. And, uh, unless we push back in, in a peaceful, uh, but loud way, uh, you know,
00:52:21.080
we're going to continue this, this decline. Amir Benno, a great American. Thank you everybody
00:52:26.800
for being with us here tomorrow. Alan Dershowitz, an icon of American law, former Harvard law
00:52:33.280
professor. Please join us tomorrow. Till then. Thank you. God bless you. And God bless America.