The Great America Show - PUTIN CAN’T TAKE ALL OF UKRAINE SAYS LTG KELLOGG

00:00:00.000 Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Great America Podcast with Lou Dobbs,

00:00:04.200 always in the fight for truth, justice, and yes, our American way of life.

00:00:09.220 And now, here he is, the Peabody award-winning voice of truth, the great Lou Dobbs.

00:00:14.240 Hello, everybody, and welcome to the Great America Show.

00:00:18.140 President Biden has sent Vice President Kamala Harris to Eastern Europe on a three-day mission.

00:00:24.420 Today in Warsaw, as the White House tries to assess what aid and assistance the United States can provide Ukraine and other countries in the region.

00:00:35.580 As the fighting rages all across Ukraine and casualties and deaths mount, talks go on between the two sides.

00:00:43.940 Turkey announcing it's hosting the talks today between representatives of Russia and Ukraine.

00:00:49.100 And in the suburbs of Kiev overnight, Ukraine defenders in hand-to-hand combat with Russian troops.

00:00:57.000 The intensity of the war is rising and rising dramatically, and reports persist that President Putin is growing increasingly frustrated

00:01:05.920 with the slow pace of the advance of his forces trying to take control of key cities, including, of course, Kiev.

00:01:13.340 Joining us now, retired Lieutenant General Keith Kellogg, former Chief of Staff of the National Security Council,

00:01:21.320 National Security Advisor to Vice President Mike Pence.

00:01:25.560 General Kellogg, it is great to have you with us on the Great America Show.

00:01:29.520 I'd first like to get your reaction, if I may, to the diplomatic developments.

00:01:34.660 That is, Volodymyr Zelensky saying, point blank, he's ready to compromise and forego NATO membership.

00:01:47.120 Your reaction?

00:01:50.080 Yeah, Lou, thanks for having me.

00:01:51.520 Look, I think it was a great call by Zelensky.

00:01:54.200 He kind of realizes he's looking for a diplomatic way out of it.

00:01:58.580 But this is something, very candidly, I would have preferred to have done months ago to kind of take the pressure off Zelensky.

00:02:05.660 Well, at the same time he does that, you build him up and make him an unsinkable aircraft carrier with all the armament that he's got.

00:02:11.940 But I think that was a good call on his part.

00:02:13.660 He also kind of left open the door for the autonomous regions at all as well to stay autonomous.

00:02:21.200 We'll see where it goes.

00:02:22.440 You know, Zelensky, to me, though, is really coming out of this very well as a Churchillian leader.

00:02:27.400 When you saw what he did today in front of the British Parliament, he actually sort of captured Churchill's speech about fighting on the beaches.

00:02:35.880 And it was pretty good.

00:02:37.080 And he's proven to be a tremendously adept wartime leader.

00:02:41.240 You know, this is the guy that told Putin, you know, if you attack, you'll see my face, you won't see my back.

00:02:46.780 Give him credit for that one.

00:02:48.400 And I think he's rallied his nation.

00:02:50.100 I don't think, candidly, Lou, I don't think if Zelensky wasn't there, I don't think they'd be fighting like they are.

00:02:56.300 But Zelensky's given him a reason to fight, and it's paying off.

00:02:59.640 And now he's thrown a diplomatic gauntlet down, and we'll see if Putin picks up on it.

00:03:04.280 I'm not too sure Putin will, though.

00:03:06.040 And the reason for that, Lou, is he's really been embarrassed by the performance of his military.

00:03:12.440 He has not performed well at all.

00:03:14.620 And I think he's really underestimated Zelensky.

00:03:16.900 And now he sees Zelensky as a foe.

00:03:18.500 And with everything going forward, he may revert to his KGB roots and just want to crush Ukraine. 0.88

00:03:26.020 We'll know, I think we'll know in the next 72 hours, because if he starts a ground assault using heavy artillery into Kiev, a city that's 2,000 years old, Zelensky will have his answer.

00:03:39.480 Yeah, he'll have his answer.

00:03:40.680 And to Zelensky, I agree with you about his leadership.

00:03:45.220 I do wish that he would have acknowledged this at the beginning, well, before the beginning of the invasion.

00:03:53.400 Because the position that is being willing to forego NATO membership, NATO had made it clear that they weren't going to bring Ukraine in as a member at that point.

00:04:08.320 And secondly, the autonomy of those regions was de facto a reality.

00:04:17.100 The Donbass region is Russian-speaking.

00:04:22.160 It was then.

00:04:24.600 It's hard to understand why it took Zelensky so long to come to this point, frankly.

00:04:31.480 Well, you know, the only nation that I'm aware of that's never given back territory that they've seized has been the Russians. 0.85

00:04:40.300 And I really wish you, and you're right about Zelensky saying that early on, because I think it would have prevented a lot of what's happening.

00:04:46.840 And there was a whole school of thought that NATO should have come out and said, look, they're not ready to be part of NATO.

00:04:52.680 They're not considered part of NATO.

00:04:54.900 And this is when nobody picked up on this.

00:04:57.280 This is where I would have brought in President Anista of Finland, who has lived like this since, you know, the Finns and the Russians have had this uneasy relationship since the 30s.

00:05:07.420 But they're not aligned, and they're a sovereign nation.

00:05:11.860 And I don't know why Zelensky couldn't have said that.

00:05:14.980 It's interesting that Henry Kissinger, years ago, made that comment that Ukraine should never be part of NATO.

00:05:23.020 They should be the bridge between east and west.

00:05:24.980 He actually said that in an interview and wrote an op-ed on that where he said this is where we shouldn't go, bringing them into NATO.

00:05:33.620 He was right.

00:05:34.500 And if we had done that earlier, if he had done that earlier, if we had said that earlier, if we had said you're not going to be part of it, it takes all 30 nations to agree for somebody to become part of NATO.

00:05:44.380 If one or two of the nations had said, I'm never going to vote that way, at least stall the effort, then maybe things would have been different.

00:05:51.300 Yeah, and I know that there's going to be a lot of discussion in this country, irrespective of whether Putin seizes the opportunity to resolve this peacefully or not.

00:06:04.000 There's going to be a lot of discussion about why in the world NATO the European leaders didn't somehow coalesce amongst at least one of those leaders to be a spokesman.

00:06:18.980 We have Macron, who has stepped up, and that's terrific.

00:06:22.920 We have Boris Johnson, who has been more megaphone than statesman.

00:06:29.320 I don't know if you agree with that, but it's my judgment.

00:06:33.160 It's sort of a strange moment in European history where Macron has stepped out, but there isn't really a leader for the European Union in this conflict.

00:06:45.000 Yeah, and they talk about Angela Merkel, the old chancellor of Germany.

00:06:52.740 She would have held that role.

00:06:53.840 No, she wouldn't have, because Putin and Merkel didn't get along either.

00:06:57.260 So you had to find somebody who's the outlier, and Macron kind of filled in on that, even though Putin has kind of pushed him away.

00:07:04.740 But more importantly, when you talk about the leader of NATO, it's what we have not done, and we have not been the leader of NATO.

00:07:13.400 We talk about it a lot.

00:07:14.720 We beat our chest because of our contributions into the alliance and reinforcing.

00:07:20.100 And, oh, by the way, we're lighting up the Kennedy Center and the colors of Ukraine.

00:07:24.240 We feel good about it.

00:07:25.240 But nobody has pushed the diplomatic side.

00:07:27.240 But that's the reason why I thought it was interesting again today that President Xi has reached out to Macron and Schultz to try to work this.

00:07:34.920 I think you're going to see the intermediary are going to be the Chinese, which is kind of frightening because they're so closely aligned to the Russians today. 1.00

00:07:44.360 But there isn't a leader.

00:07:45.800 There hasn't been a leader come out.

00:07:47.560 I think you're right about Boris Johnson.

00:07:49.360 He's got his own problems.

00:07:50.360 But other than that, there's not a leader who's come forward, and Schultz is really too new to really make any impact at all.

00:07:59.500 And he backtracked today.

00:08:01.700 You know, he's all for NATO and raising his defense levels to 2 percent of GDP, like he agreed to in the Wales Declaration.

00:08:11.400 But also today he said, well, we're not going to cut back on Russian oil and energy.

00:08:14.800 You know, he just undercut what we're trying to do because they're going to have to wean themselves on it.

00:08:20.300 But they just kind of said to the Russians, well, we're going to be really tough.

00:08:23.440 We're going to raise our defense expenditure to levels that were actually less than the middle of the Cold War.

00:08:28.020 But we're going to keep buying your oil.

00:08:29.820 Yeah, which is, by the way, doing nothing, as you're implying.

00:08:36.160 My question becomes, what will be the result on the United States?

00:08:41.620 I always think of everything, forgive me, in America first principles.

00:08:48.260 And I don't understand for the life of me the U.S. interest in Ukraine.

00:08:54.900 Can you help me out on that?

00:08:56.540 Because we're sitting here two weeks into the war, and it's still unclear.

00:09:03.200 And President Biden hasn't articulated why he's banning Russian oil, what the effect will be on the American people, which I think will be horrific, frankly, will only add to hyperinflation and is more drama than diplomacy.

00:09:18.420 As a matter of fact, this entire period, President Biden has receded from almost public view and notice, certainly, as a leader in NATO, as you pointed out.

00:09:35.880 What in the world is he talking about today?

00:09:38.560 He talks like a neighborhood thug saying, you know, we will never, ever accept a Russian takeover of Ukraine.

00:09:45.980 Ukraine? Really, Mr. President?

00:09:48.820 Just exactly what does that mean, and why are you talking tough now?

00:09:52.900 Yeah, remember that in 2014, when Russia took Crimea, who the vice president was, it was Joe Biden.

00:10:08.860 You know, when you look at it, it's sort of the way I look at Ukraine is both post and pre-invasion.

00:10:14.520 Pre-invasion, I said, look, I was a big believer that Ukraine ought to be a neutral country, sort of like Finland is.

00:10:20.220 It's force where NATO membership, become the bridge to east and west, continue to modernize, will continue to arm them.

00:10:28.560 The trouble is once that Putin did what he did and invaded Ukraine and started doing massive bombardments of civilian areas,

00:10:36.800 he has become, to me, a real tyrant.

00:10:39.000 And it said, I carry this so far.

00:10:41.560 I said, OK, now that you've crossed that line, you know, my attitude is, you know, we're going to have to deal with you

00:10:46.860 because I don't know where you're going to go with this.

00:10:49.140 You know, we cannot tolerate a world leader doing what you're doing.

00:10:52.820 It wasn't a little hunk of territory it was taken.

00:10:55.200 I was OK, frankly, when he did the Donbass region because it's primarily Russian-speaking.

00:11:00.000 I understand it was part of Ukraine.

00:11:01.320 But take that piece and go home and agree with the Minsk agreement and do what you want to do.

00:11:07.620 But when he started going against the second-largest country in Ukraine and using pretty significant artillery

00:11:13.900 and bombing of centers, population centers, he'd cross the line with me.

00:11:19.820 So it's one of those pre and post.

00:11:21.740 You know, I can be something pre, that this is what you should do.

00:11:24.640 But once you've crossed that line, then I look at it a little bit differently

00:11:27.960 because I don't think the world should tolerate somebody doing what he's doing.

00:11:32.040 Not so much he's going into another country, which is important, but the barbaric way he's doing it.

00:11:36.500 I mean, it is different than having two gladiators fighting out in the middle of the arena.

00:11:41.320 You know, he's taking it and he's putting millions of people at risk, forcing millions of people to leave Ukraine.

00:11:48.000 The nice thing is about it, those people will come back to Ukraine because that's their home. 1.00

00:11:51.840 They're not going to stay in another country.

00:11:53.400 They won't stay in Poland. 1.00

00:11:54.940 Unlike some people, they will return home because that is their home.

00:11:59.880 That home is far less than what it once was.

00:12:03.500 It really doesn't have much of a roof over its head for millions of Ukrainians.

00:12:10.980 The water supply has been in some areas just completely destroyed.

00:12:17.840 Sewage sanitation, non-existent sewage treatment.

00:12:22.820 And it's a very difficult situation right now.

00:12:26.640 And it's one thing to say we won't accept this.

00:12:30.060 It's quite another to do something about it.

00:12:32.580 What on earth can we do?

00:12:36.120 Yeah.

00:12:36.700 Well, you know, I'm hoping for a diplomatic solution to figure out how they get out of this

00:12:42.760 because Putin has put himself in a really bad position.

00:12:47.380 And what I mean by that is he had a lot of talk about taking Ukraine.

00:12:52.000 You know, if this was a prize fight and we were, let's say, round seven and you were on

00:12:58.120 a judge's scorecard, right now Ukraine's ahead.

00:13:00.900 They're winning the fight.

00:13:01.960 And it's pretty clear.

00:13:03.100 And I don't think he can stand that both personally and for his nation to see his nation hit the

00:13:10.620 way it's being hit by Ukrainians. 0.99

00:13:12.780 I think you've been absolutely, you know, no respect.

00:13:14.940 Frankly, if I was Putin, I'd probably double up my bodyguards right now because they're

00:13:18.760 not performing well at all.

00:13:20.400 Their leadership is not good.

00:13:22.860 Their combined arms tactics are no good.

00:13:24.600 And then he's using weapons, which are clearly showing him to the rest of the world to be the

00:13:29.780 thug that he is. 0.98

00:13:30.920 So he's got a real problem coming out of this.

00:13:33.180 And right now, I got to tell you, Lou, if he goes for a diplomatic solution, he's admitting

00:13:39.900 that he didn't succeed.

00:13:41.840 He'll phrase it a different way.

00:13:43.340 But he's going to look at the entire world and say, well, you know, we just, this is

00:13:47.860 all we wanted.

00:13:48.560 No, he took 90% of his army and threw them against Ukraine.

00:13:53.260 He took the best units he had and threw them against Ukraine. 0.98

00:13:56.720 And he's coming up with zeros right now.

00:13:58.960 So I don't know if he can survive that himself because eventually the oligarchs are going to 0.85

00:14:03.920 get him or the generals are going to get him or the FSB is going to get him because they're

00:14:07.620 not going to tolerate their nation being dragged economically to where it's at right now.

00:14:12.140 And they're being hit horribly with economics.

00:14:14.740 And I don't think they want to go through this much longer.

00:14:17.460 We're not going to back off from this for a while.

00:14:19.880 A couple of things on that, if I may, General.

00:14:23.680 One is sanctions don't work.

00:14:26.480 I've never heard of a single instance.

00:14:28.880 I know of no single instance in which sanctions brought against a country have worked in terms

00:14:35.740 of exerting the will of the nation sanctioning another.

00:14:41.000 Do you?

00:14:41.660 I mean, I don't know of a...

00:14:42.800 I mean, Putin has been under sanctions for years.

00:14:46.100 And he has the second most powerful military in the world.

00:14:50.700 Yeah, you know, it's funny.

00:14:51.520 In four years in the White House, President Trump said the same thing.

00:14:55.480 He used to...

00:14:56.040 He and Steve Mnuchin used to go at it all the time.

00:14:58.160 And he basically said exactly what you said.

00:14:59.960 And you're right.

00:15:00.700 Because the entire time I was there, we seemed to have sanctioned a lot of countries and people

00:15:04.260 that they never did work.

00:15:05.940 And I...

00:15:06.120 Because I'm like you.

00:15:06.800 I'm not a big believer in sanctions because I never saw them do anything.

00:15:10.740 Yeah.

00:15:10.860 I mean, you look at the Iranians. 1.00

00:15:12.320 You know, the Iranians were able to withstand it.

00:15:15.900 And now they've got a missile program, an advanced missile program.

00:15:19.540 And they're approximately, you can argue the point, but within six months of having a nuclear

00:15:24.940 weapon at any time.

00:15:26.520 They've taken their uranium enrichment and doubled it in terms of percentage and are only

00:15:33.400 months away from developing a nuclear weapon if they so choose.

00:15:37.500 So when we talk about sanctions, the first thing we should do is, to me, it seems, is a

00:15:42.240 predicate to the discussion is establish that, A, sanctions don't work.

00:15:46.220 So, Mr. Biden, get off your high horse and cut the thuggish rhetoric and acknowledge the

00:15:53.960 fact that you're not doing a thing to change the circumstances on the ground for the Ukrainian

00:15:59.060 people or indeed involved even in the centerpiece of negotiations with the European Union and

00:16:07.000 Vladimir Putin.

00:16:08.880 Yeah.

00:16:09.100 Your reaction.

00:16:09.780 Yeah.

00:16:11.060 Well, but you're operating under a premise that anything that President Biden does will

00:16:15.740 impact Putin.

00:16:18.180 Putin doesn't care about Joe Biden.

00:16:20.080 No, no, no.

00:16:20.360 I'm not operating under that predicate.

00:16:22.180 Not at all.

00:16:23.120 Let me be very clear.

00:16:24.800 I'm saying to you that the man is, right now, the protagonist in this drama.

00:16:32.300 He is the villain.

00:16:34.260 He is the person that has to be dealt with, whether we like him, we dislike him, whether

00:16:39.100 his people like him or dislike him.

00:16:41.000 But we have to deal with the reality that he's a dictator, has absolute control of that

00:16:45.580 nation.

00:16:46.360 And he has possessed that control for 22 years, longer than any other leader of a major power.

00:16:55.560 And he's not going to go anywhere.

00:16:57.100 I mean, as long as his health holds, he's looking for another 12 years.

00:16:59.700 Right.

00:17:00.300 Because he's changed the Constitution that he can serve two more terms as president.

00:17:04.340 And the presidency in Russia is a six-year term.

00:17:07.160 So he can last another 12 years.

00:17:09.720 And he knows that.

00:17:10.980 And as long as he holds the people in the military together, he's OK.

00:17:13.720 That's the reason why I don't think he can afford to fail in Ukraine to any degree.

00:17:18.260 I think he's basically got to go to some type of culmination and declare victory somehow.

00:17:23.900 And maybe Zelensky gave him that out today.

00:17:26.200 Maybe by saying he's not going to be a member of NATO, and I'm not too sure there's not

00:17:30.960 going to be some type of rump state.

00:17:32.720 You know, the worst case I could see, not the best, but the worst case, you could see

00:17:36.600 a division of Ukraine into west Ukraine and east Ukraine.

00:17:39.940 Yeah, exactly.

00:17:40.840 I don't think Putin's got the legs, the military legs, to get to the west, the way his army's

00:17:46.140 performing.

00:17:46.600 I mean, but he could pretty well take the Dnieper River, call out a border, and say,

00:17:50.440 OK, you could have that side.

00:17:51.360 I've got this side.

00:17:53.820 You know, keep the capital of Kiev and Kharkiv, and say, you've got everything else.

00:17:58.500 That is, to me, the worst case scenario for us.

00:18:01.740 And maybe that would be his best case scenario going forward.

00:18:04.680 We'll just have to see.

00:18:05.860 I think it's going to play out in another week or two.

00:18:08.900 Yeah.

00:18:09.060 And how do you think it's going to work out?

00:18:11.360 Because I can't see, and that's because you and I are sort of coming at this, I think,

00:18:16.520 from the same direction.

00:18:18.340 That is, we have very limited military options.

00:18:22.000 We have limited leadership, whether it's the European Union or the United States.

00:18:26.420 And even as ineffective as his military has been against expectations, they have nonetheless

00:18:32.620 invaded Ukraine and are in control of vast swaths of the nation. 0.81

00:18:38.420 By the way, they've done so much damage with their artillery and their missiles and their

00:18:44.740 rockets that I'm not sure what they've gained by the effort.

00:18:50.080 Are you?

00:18:52.040 No, I think, you know, well, first of all, they've truly turned off the population.

00:18:57.000 I mean, he's going to inhabit the eastern part of Ukraine to a population, for the most

00:19:03.360 part, that hates him.

00:19:04.340 Just because they're Russian-speaking doesn't mean they're Russian-supporting.

00:19:07.240 And there are reports there are some people that were actually Russian-supported and have

00:19:11.440 changed their whole attitude about Putin.

00:19:14.280 So he's got a, he will have a potential hostile state that he takes over.

00:19:18.720 But he's committed himself so far, you know, he's going to have to do some type of culminating

00:19:23.660 event.

00:19:24.100 You know, when I was in the military, there was a thing called river crossing operations.

00:19:27.840 And I said, once you make the decision to cross a river in combat, you cross the river.

00:19:31.840 It is never good to get in the middle of the river and go, man, maybe this isn't such a

00:19:35.900 good idea.

00:19:36.360 I need to go back.

00:19:37.580 You know, once you cross it, you start going.

00:19:39.540 And that's where he's kind of at.

00:19:41.140 So his end state was, I think, take of all Ukraine.

00:19:44.120 I don't think, I just don't think he can get there.

00:19:46.380 And when you say where I think it ends, I think it's going to end, the critical part

00:19:50.020 is going to be the next few days.

00:19:51.120 What happens in Kyiv, if he, if he starts to bombard Kyiv with, with weaponry that is

00:19:57.780 advanced and killing civilians and destroying a 2000 year old city, I think the entire world

00:20:04.180 will be so appalled by that, that he'll, he's dug a hole that maybe they'll have to

00:20:09.000 replace him.

00:20:09.980 But if he was able to succeed that without doing that and come to a diplomatic solution,

00:20:14.100 and that's maybe what the Chinese are trying to do by helping him talk to somebody that

00:20:17.980 may, that may give him an out.

00:20:20.140 So I think when I, it's going to determine, is he really going to go into Kyiv?

00:20:23.780 Because I tell you, Lou, if you're in a military, you do not want to fight in cities.

00:20:28.240 It eats your units up.

00:20:29.840 It takes time to do it, effort to do it.

00:20:32.340 And your casualty numbers go way up.

00:20:35.640 And it's clear that's precisely the plan of the resistance and the remaining Ukrainian 1.00

00:20:42.180 military.

00:20:42.640 Do we have good intelligence on how many casualties the Ukrainians have had to take?

00:20:52.040 How many the Russians have suffered?

00:20:56.420 You know, Lou, I don't think we'd add, I think there's a, do, I think the fog of war is there

00:21:00.600 where you don't really know.

00:21:02.020 You know, I've been involved in a world where body count was a primary thing you had in

00:21:05.160 Vietnam.

00:21:05.460 And it was always wrong.

00:21:06.540 You know, you counter blood trails by two or blood trails by three, whatever it is.

00:21:10.180 So you really don't know.

00:21:11.820 I think the bigger number to track, and it's easier to do because you've got overhead in

00:21:16.500 persistent surveillance, is don't look at the body count, but you look at the equipment

00:21:21.100 count.

00:21:21.620 See how much equipment is being damaged.

00:21:23.440 And then you can interpolate that as where it goes.

00:21:27.080 But right now, I take everything that is said by Ukrainians, everything that is said by the

00:21:31.960 Russians with a grain of salt.

00:21:33.380 I said, no, I'm not going to buy into that on the numbers of soldiers being lost.

00:21:37.940 But it's interesting to watch the equipment.

00:21:40.300 Now, that I can, you can quantify, because if you, you can count up, okay, he's lost 100

00:21:45.380 tanks.

00:21:46.220 Well, that equivalence, there's an equivalence to maybe three battle tactical units, battalion

00:21:53.080 tactical units.

00:21:53.820 And the BTGs, the battalion tactical groups, I'm sorry, are what they really use as a maneuver

00:21:59.080 forces.

00:21:59.740 You can kind of count up, and then you can count up the efficiency of those units degraded by

00:22:03.960 the loss of the equipment.

00:22:05.180 So I wouldn't worry about the people.

00:22:06.600 The people is like, don't even go there.

00:22:09.280 Yeah.

00:22:10.200 So what I'm trying to understand is that we saw 150,000 troops mass on the border of Ukraine,

00:22:18.700 whether they were in Belarus, Moldova, or in Russia.

00:22:23.820 I'm not really clear about how many of those troops are positioned, where those forces are,

00:22:32.080 how much is armor, how much is infantry, how much are airborne.

00:22:39.080 And I'm getting none of that from, if you will, cable news or from anyone, including the BBC.

00:22:50.000 Yeah, there's a good rule of thumb in the militaries.

00:22:53.180 And most militaries are the same when it comes to it.

00:22:55.560 It's basically three to one.

00:22:56.900 Three to one meaning combat support and service to fighters.

00:23:00.580 So if you come with a force of that, if you're looking at a number, that is probably combat

00:23:08.660 forces of about 65,000, 70,000.

00:23:11.460 The rest are in support.

00:23:13.960 That's where he's bogging down, because his support units are not doing well in supporting

00:23:18.600 the fighters forward.

00:23:20.020 So it's really, when you look at numbers, you kind of have to make a determination, okay,

00:23:23.720 what number am I looking at?

00:23:24.800 The combat forces.

00:23:25.600 That's where I made the comment about the cities, because logistics troops don't fight

00:23:29.680 in cities.

00:23:30.160 The combat troops fight in cities, and they'll eat those numbers up in a heartbeat, because

00:23:33.860 when you're used to use a battalion tactical group in this large of an area, you have to

00:23:39.860 shrink that when you come into a city.

00:23:41.660 And the rest of those are support guys.

00:23:43.420 And so when you look at it, you just can't say, oh, he's got an army of 200,000.

00:23:48.040 They came across the border.

00:23:49.500 That's a lot of troops, because it's not a lot of troops when you look in the grand scheme

00:23:53.500 of things.

00:23:53.940 It's a difference if you have a million-man army, which they used to have, but they don't

00:23:58.840 have that size army anymore.

00:24:01.740 So what I'm trying to ask generals to get to is, where are we?

00:24:06.660 Because I don't see that the United States has the wherewithal to exert an outcome in

00:24:15.340 Ukraine, either militarily or diplomatically.

00:24:18.800 I don't see that the Europeans do, and I don't believe that the Ukrainians, based on what

00:24:26.920 I've seen, can continue, despite their valiant effort in their defense of their homeland

00:24:34.680 against these superior numbers and superior firepower and weaponry, how they can hold

00:24:40.180 out much longer, and Putin, who, as you correctly stated, I think, has to be embarrassed by the

00:24:49.180 performance of his military.

00:24:50.540 Nonetheless, that military is in Ukraine and is in control of people and in control of land,

00:25:00.440 territory.

00:25:02.400 How in the world do we, and is it reasonable to think, that we can extricate these combatants

00:25:10.740 and step back, pause, and reach a rational, if there is such a thing available, a rational

00:25:18.180 resolution of this conflict?

00:25:19.740 Well, I think it's going to be hard to do, Lou, and you said the comment, we don't have

00:25:24.060 a military role.

00:25:25.380 Ukraine's not a member of NATO, so Article 5 doesn't apply, an attack on one is an attack

00:25:29.960 on all.

00:25:31.200 And so we're standing back, and I don't think we should get involved there.

00:25:34.320 I would hope we don't involve any U.S. troops or even NATO troops in there.

00:25:38.740 I would hope that even our leaders, as awful as they have shown themselves to be in every 1.00

00:25:46.600 policy decision that has been taken under this administration, would not be that stupid. 1.00

00:25:52.060 That's what I pray. 0.99

00:25:54.440 And I'm sorry to interrupt.

00:25:56.920 Well, and I'm hoping that one of the reasons why I don't want Putin to keep going towards

00:26:01.260 the West is because wars are generally started through miscalculation or mistakes. 0.99

00:26:05.700 And you don't want to get them so close to NATO, somebody does something stupid. 0.88

00:26:08.820 That's the reason I'm not for a no-fly zone of NATO as well. 0.89

00:26:11.820 And frankly, he doesn't need one right now.

00:26:13.500 He's doing quite well without having a no-fly zone.

00:26:17.300 And you look at what he's done on the failings of it, you know, it's almost like, OK, if

00:26:22.320 you're a grand strategist and you're looking at the map, they come from the south, they've

00:26:25.740 come from the east and they come from the north.

00:26:28.260 Man, the thing they say in the military is, wait your main effort, meaning put the maximum

00:26:33.480 amount of troops you've got and where you want to go.

00:26:35.580 And where they wanted to go was to decapitate the government, in other words, eliminate the

00:26:40.780 leadership, Zelensky, and capture the capital.

00:26:43.660 It's sort of like, you know, capture the flag, you know, and they didn't do either.

00:26:48.440 And so he didn't even weight his attack well.

00:26:50.440 But we don't have a military role.

00:26:52.840 And I would really recommend doing that.

00:26:55.340 I said, no, we can give support.

00:26:56.640 But don't even think about putting U.S. troops on the ground anywhere near there because

00:27:00.880 it's not our fight.

00:27:02.160 If anybody needs to put groups on the ground, it's a European fight. 0.93

00:27:06.240 But of course, they're all aligned to NATO, so that's as bad as it is.

00:27:09.980 But this is one of those where you almost, you know, you cheer on Ukrainians and you help

00:27:15.080 them out any way you can.

00:27:16.240 But you're going to have to stay away from putting troops on the ground.

00:27:18.860 And again, like I said earlier, Lou, I really mean this.

00:27:22.040 I think, you know, Putin is going to have to figure out how to get out of this diplomatically

00:27:26.300 because he's not doing well.

00:27:27.860 And every day that it goes by, he's in fact losing.

00:27:31.180 And I don't think he as a nation, he as a leader can survive that embarrassment.

00:27:37.500 I know he won't as a leader.

00:27:38.880 That's why I said a few minutes ago, let her double up your bodyguards. 1.00

00:27:42.280 You may need him.

00:27:43.520 Yeah.

00:27:43.760 And I want to get your opinion on this business of the no-fly zone because, I mean, that is

00:27:51.220 straightforwardly, I think the answer is we do not want to get involved in that.

00:27:54.860 Yet at Ramstein Air Force Base, the Poles are sending their MiG-30s over to be turned over

00:28:05.260 to the United States for the purpose of putting Ukrainian pilots in them and flying them.

00:28:12.280 over Ukraine.

00:28:14.020 Putin has said outright that that kind of direct assistance and a no-fly zone, whether

00:28:19.940 it be any direct engagement with Russian forces, will be considered an act of war.

00:28:28.240 Your reaction to what they're doing right now, they being the United States and the Poles?

00:28:36.060 Yeah, you know, what they did, they transferred the MiG-29 as their advanced air-to-air fighter.

00:28:42.520 It's not a Generation 5 fighter like our F-22 or F-35, but it'll match up with the Russians 0.98

00:28:48.860 quite well.

00:28:49.740 But bringing them back to Ramstein Air Force Base in Germany, you know, first of all, that

00:28:54.440 is a base that's on German soil.

00:28:56.060 I wonder if anybody even talked to the Germans about it.

00:28:58.280 And I said, it makes no sense to me why you did that because you're right.

00:29:01.220 You just brought yourself into the fight.

00:29:03.180 Tony Blinken said, yeah, go ahead, we'll transfer him.

00:29:05.620 Well, figure a way to do it.

00:29:06.940 I don't take it somewhere else.

00:29:08.840 You know, take it to Finland or have them come over to Warsaw and pick them up. 0.88

00:29:13.580 But what you've done, you've just extended the fight from Poland to Germany to the United

00:29:19.020 States.

00:29:19.520 It makes no sense to me to do it.

00:29:21.100 Or fly them into, you know, to Lviv and just leave them there and say, walk out, because

00:29:25.960 the airplanes are what they're used to flying.

00:29:28.060 They're not modified for American standards.

00:29:30.920 The Russian airplane is the same airplane they're currently flying.

00:29:34.060 And it's not a data, I mean, it's an advanced fighter, but it's not the most advanced fighter

00:29:37.420 they've got.

00:29:38.380 So they can transition pretty well.

00:29:39.940 But I'm like you.

00:29:41.140 It's like, this makes no sense to me.

00:29:43.080 There's just something about it. 0.99

00:29:44.080 This was kind of dumb. 0.99

00:29:45.280 You know, dumb is a word that keeps coming to mind when we talk about Tony Blink. 0.99

00:29:51.440 I'm serious, General. 0.97

00:29:52.820 I mean, this is an amateurish administration, whether it's domestic policy or foreign policy.

00:30:00.040 There is nothing about them that exudes gravitas, that inspires confidence.

00:30:07.720 I can't think of a thing they've done correctly.

00:30:10.480 And now they turn this crisis in Ukraine into an opportunity with the banning of Russian oil

00:30:16.720 into an opportunity to push their green agenda and convert to electric cars, for God's sake. 1.00

00:30:23.920 These are stupid, stupid people running this government. 1.00

00:30:29.920 Yeah, and I thought they were supposed to bring the adults back into the room. 1.00

00:30:36.260 You know, I guess they forgot about that one, but they said they were going to do it.

00:30:39.540 And historically, when you look at them, this is the same crew that was there during the Obama administration.

00:30:52.460 Most of those players were all there before.

00:30:55.020 You know, and remember Blinken, there was a lot of talk about Blinken.

00:30:58.280 He should have been confirmed years ago.

00:31:01.080 And John McCain said that on the Senate floor, that, you know, it's all public record that he thought that Blinken was a real hazard to America.

00:31:08.020 Well, that's coming true.

00:31:09.540 And, you know, it's almost like it's the second team that you've got playing there.

00:31:14.000 You know, you said Blinken.

00:31:15.340 I'm just not impressed with Jake Sullivan either.

00:31:17.560 But Jake Sullivan was the next security advisor to the vice president when he was with Obama.

00:31:22.680 So it's a lot of the – the players haven't changed.

00:31:25.500 That's one thing I admired about Trump.

00:31:26.820 He brought in a lot of new people.

00:31:28.020 Now, some of them, you know, some were hit or miss.

00:31:30.280 But the fact is, at least let's look for other players that's a normal staff that you see that transfer of power.

00:31:36.760 You know, I say, okay, Republican administration, K Street feeds that.

00:31:40.620 The Democrat administration, K Street feeds that.

00:31:43.260 Let's go look for new players.

00:31:44.580 And he just brought everybody else that he's been there with before, which I think is a huge mistake.

00:31:49.820 Yeah, I just think about reminding us that Biden was vice president under Obama.

00:31:58.240 We have to think back to 2014.

00:32:00.480 Obama lost Crimea.

00:32:02.020 We have to think back to 2010 when Obama turned over 20% of the uranium reserves by approving the Uranium One deal, giving the Russians 20% of U.S. uranium reserves, and then we buy from the Russians our nuclear fuel.

00:32:27.900 It's just – it's madness.

00:32:30.300 And now this president is cutting off Russian oil, which comprises 3.5% of our oil.

00:32:38.880 It's nothing, and it's theater, and it doesn't mean anything.

00:32:42.660 And the fact is, we're still left with the existing situation in which I think gives both Putin – the Zelensky plan gives Putin an off-ramp.

00:32:55.000 It gives us an off-ramp, and it saves Ukraine. 0.85

00:32:59.060 It just sounds like it's the right thing to do to me.

00:33:03.780 Yeah.

00:33:04.760 Yeah, no, you're right.

00:33:05.980 No, you're absolutely right.

00:33:07.160 You know, by the way, I have to say this because I've said this many times.

00:33:10.640 You look back, and Bob Gates made an interesting comment when he was the former secretary of defense for Obama and then also director of the CIA.

00:33:18.600 He said, remember, he's the guy that said, Joe Biden has been wrong on nearly every national security decision in the last 40 years.

00:33:24.760 And I thought, yeah, I had a laugh about that.

00:33:26.240 But I also remember when a crisis situation arose and they were going after Osama bin Laden, the guy in the Situation Room that says, don't go, to President Obama was Joe Biden.

00:33:37.840 Yeah.

00:33:37.960 So that kind of tells you what kind of leadership you've got in place.

00:33:40.960 And I believe, Lou, I'm a big believer in patterns, patterns of, you know, everybody goes to the same grocery store, walks down the aisles the same way, or buys their gas, same place.

00:33:50.760 Leadership's the same way.

00:33:51.780 You set patterns.

00:33:52.900 And his patterns that he has set over the last 40 years are not good.

00:33:57.280 Yeah.

00:33:57.400 Well, on that uplifting note, General, no, not at all.

00:34:04.660 Our convention here is to give all of our guests the last word.

00:34:09.100 And so I'm going to ask you for your concluding thoughts as we, well, you know what, before I do that, I just want to share with you this poll to get your reaction to this.

00:34:20.080 This is a man with a distinguished military career, national security advisor, and this was the Quinnipiac poll.

00:34:30.500 And it turns out two remarkable revelations to me.

00:34:35.060 One is that a majority of Republicans and independents surveyed would stay and fight for Russia to invade the United States.

00:34:42.080 And on the other side of that question, a majority of Democrats' poll said they would flee, not stay and fight if Russia were to invade the United States.

00:34:52.080 What is your takeaway of that poll?

00:34:55.360 Yeah, that's right.

00:34:56.040 I read that today, and I was incredibly disappointed because Quinnipiac is a Democrat-leaning poll.

00:35:03.420 So those numbers are probably worse than you said than when you think about the Democratic numbers.

00:35:08.380 I mean, it's appalling because it was primarily the young group when you looked at the age differentiation, and it was the young people that said that.

00:35:16.060 It's disappointing.

00:35:16.960 It shows that we've kind of lost our way on the young side, in my opinion, on the Democratic side, because if you're not willing to fight for your country, then what are you willing to fight for?

00:35:26.940 And I'm one of those that kind of bleed red, white, and blue.

00:35:30.760 And, you know, this nation has got warts.

00:35:33.960 We've had warts.

00:35:34.840 I understand it, but learn from it.

00:35:36.560 Don't destroy it.

00:35:37.480 Don't hide it.

00:35:38.200 It's fine.

00:35:39.100 You know, and I've been a big believer in learning from it.

00:35:41.400 This whole thing about cancel culture or stripping names from buildings or tearing down statues is appalling to me, and we shouldn't be doing that.

00:35:51.840 And, frankly, that survey is an indicator of what that kind of group thinks about America, that it's not the nation that we stand and fight for.

00:36:00.700 And very candidly, it's quite disappointing to see that.

00:36:05.760 And we're going to have to turn it around.

00:36:06.980 Somebody's got to turn it around because, you know, there will be the day, I guarantee you, it happens in history.

00:36:13.580 There is going to be a day when we have to fight for our nation again.

00:36:16.600 Yeah.

00:36:16.700 And I think that's, you know, I'm going to give you that opportunity for your concluding thoughts as we wrap up here.

00:36:26.120 I do want to say the reason I brought that up is that we've got a lot of repair work to do in this country.

00:36:32.620 The people listening to this podcast are patriotic, I can assure you of that.

00:36:38.140 They bleed red, white, and blue, and they believe in every founding value, the American way, truth, justice, say what you mean, mean what you say, and back it up.

00:36:49.680 Be plain spoken.

00:36:50.520 We've got to fix this society, and the only way to do it is to engage.

00:36:55.180 And what I'm afraid of is right now going to war with the commander-in-chief we have, a body politic as divided is my greatest concern, not the enemy.

00:37:06.900 My greatest concern are the weaknesses within, which we have, which we've not only tolerated, but nurtured, and we've got to fix all of that.

00:37:19.200 You're concluding thoughts, General, and I just want to say real quickly, I appreciate you being with us.

00:37:24.720 No, thank you very much for having me, Lou.

00:37:27.400 And what's your last sentiments?

00:37:28.940 I echo completely.

00:37:31.200 I just think we're living in some really dangerous times right now.

00:37:34.120 And the dangerous times are because I believe it's a lack of leadership at the senior levels and commander-in-chief level.

00:37:41.660 And, you know, my experience is aggressors always fill voids, and if they see a void in weakness, a leadership void, they're going to try to fill it.

00:37:49.940 And I think not just the weeks ahead are going to be dangerous for the nation because you don't know what Putin's going to do,

00:37:55.100 but the next couple of years are going to be dangerous because this isn't the first problem we're going to see.

00:38:00.920 We've already gone through Afghanistan, the debacle there. 0.99

00:38:03.700 We've looked to see what's happening on our borders.

00:38:06.040 We're seeing what's happening with the economy, and we're seeing what's happening with Ukraine.

00:38:12.680 And I just remember as we were going into getting Soleimani, I remember Gina Haspel, the director of the CIA,

00:38:20.020 looked over when we were making the decision to go, the president was, and she says, okay, buckle up.

00:38:25.680 And I know what she was getting at.

00:38:26.760 I think what I have to say to everybody is buckle up.

00:38:29.300 We're going to have to go through some hard times.

00:38:30.580 Well, and I know we can handle it, and I know we will.

00:38:34.860 Thanks, General, and thanks, everybody, for being with us.

00:38:38.660 Our guest tomorrow will be Congressman Scott Perry, member of the Foreign Affairs Committee.

00:38:44.380 We want to invite you to sign up for our Great America Show Advisory and Newsletter.

00:38:49.740 Simply go to lewdobs.com, that's lewdobs.com, and click on the email newsletter button.

00:38:57.640 It's as simple as that.

00:38:59.420 And we'll send you our advisories and alerts as well as our weekly newsletter.

00:39:04.020 I don't want to overstate anything, but I'm pretty sure you will absolutely sense at least a small positive change in your world outlook.

00:39:12.940 We invite you to join us and stay in touch.

00:39:16.520 Thank you.

00:39:17.060 That's lewdobs.com. 1.00

00:39:19.620 Thanks.

00:39:20.460 God bless you, and God bless America.

00:39:22.900 Join us again tomorrow for the Great America Podcast.

00:39:26.060 Stay in the fight.

00:39:27.060 Truth, justice, and the American way will prevail against all enemies, against all odds.

00:39:32.480 And now we'll see you later.

00:39:33.420 Sadly, it seems tomorrow for us and to come.

00:39:35.700 Let's say I am the one who might have to pass you against.

00:39:37.140 Theitarian way to shuffle is constant.

00:39:40.320 And when we want to hear from our heads, turn theong tree, and end the short end of the Holocaust. 0.88

00:39:44.160 And we'll

00:39:57.460 people spend the humility of this world, and we'll

00:39:59.100 tell you to turn it forward against the mountain church, and I swear,

The Great America Show - March 10, 2022

PUTIN CAN’T TAKE ALL OF UKRAINE SAYS LTG KELLOGG

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