Russ Tice, former senior intelligence analyst for the National Security Agency and whistleblower, joins the Great America Show to discuss the President's motion to dismiss the Espionage Act case against former FBI Director James Comey and former CIA Director Mike Pompeo.
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00:00:33.660Hello, everybody, and welcome to The Great America Show.
00:02:57.840I want to begin today with these reports from James O'Keefe in particular and the insider, if you will,
00:03:08.520a contractor he found who is saying quite, it seems to me at least, credibly,
00:03:14.480that the intelligence agencies, specifically the CIA, withheld intelligence from President Trump
00:03:22.800and apparently at the behest of then CIA Director Mike Pompeo, later to be Secretary of State.
00:03:31.660Your reaction to this, and first, let's begin with, do you think it's plausible?
00:03:36.140I think it is plausible, although the guy might be going a little bit over his position that he had as far as what he did know.
00:03:45.220But being that he was supposedly in cybersecurity, he may have had access to the director, deputy directors,
00:03:53.340and some of the top brass, their communications, to determine whether there were situations where they could be hacked.
00:04:00.680You know, I want to start, as we go up the, if you will, the chain, to go from the intelligence that's being gathered,
00:04:12.160then collected around a specific briefing for the President of the United States, and then withholding it.
00:04:20.500There would have to be a lot of people within the CIA who were aware that they were withholding information from the President of the United States.
00:05:58.560I mean, at some point, someone who's an editor and a little bit better with the English language puts the commas in some of the other pieces in the place where they belong.
00:06:09.560But then that goes up to an assistant to the deputy director, and that person looks it over, and then the deputy director looks at it and could very easily say, we're nixing this whole part of this report or this action plan for, say, we're doing some operation somewhere in the world.
00:06:27.600Or we're going to nix the entire thing whatsoever, and we don't want this to go into the President's briefing.
00:06:35.900But, of course, it's going to happen at the upper echelon.
00:06:40.760And what I'm getting at here is, at what point does the obfuscation or simply the removal of intelligence from the President's either view or hearing, where does that actually originate in terms of saying, okay, we're not going to tell the President about what is going on in Russia or the Middle East or wherever it might be?
00:07:06.660Because it just seems to me, it almost has to be the director who approves something like that.
00:07:15.700I can imagine the director, especially if now they are politically oriented, to tell his senior staff that we're not going to deal with a certain issue or a mission that's happening.
00:07:31.260Or we, you know, this fellow who's this whistleblower said that they believed, they used some insidious words for the President, that he was not of an educated manner to be able to handle the information that they were dealing and that he would just spew it off to our enemies.
00:07:51.200First of all, I don't believe that of Mr. Trump, our President, our former President.
00:07:56.540And second, these people, this is the President of the United States.
00:08:03.040So this is elitism, and it's probably a political posturing for somebody else because you don't like the man that's sitting in the White House.
00:08:16.140This seems like elitism of a rarefied sort and outright arrogance.
00:08:22.100And because if anyone ever finds out precisely what happened here, extraordinarily tragic hubris on their part, because they will be held accountable for this.
00:08:33.800But Pompeo right now is the central figure of this.
00:08:38.820And he's accused, straightforwardly, of aiding and abetting, if not, in fact, originating the withholding of intelligence from the Commander-in-Chief and the President of the United States.
00:08:58.480So I don't know about whether the DIA director was also holding back, but more than likely, because all of them would periodically talk with one another,
00:09:09.580this had to be like a small cabal at the very top of the intelligence community, where they said,
00:09:15.980we're cutting this guy out, our president, and, you know, we'll just wait him out until the next president shows up.
00:09:23.460And maybe we won't tell that one either.
00:09:25.760I think whatever they tell our current president, he wouldn't remember beyond lunchtime.
00:09:30.240Yeah, this is, in the intelligence service, this man would be considered a cutout.
00:09:38.720And he's been cut out of just everything.
00:09:41.920I mean, to even talk about Biden as the President of the United States.
00:09:45.580First of all, he's an accident of history and history perverted by the Marxist Dems and Bill Barr and a host of other people who conspired to stifle conservative voices.
00:10:04.480Or otherwise, those 51 intelligence veterans who signed up and said, you know what, that Hunter Biden laptop is Russian disinformation.
00:10:14.040They lied through the teeth to the American people.
00:10:19.200And that's why it's so easy for me, at least, to believe that Mike Pompeo and his henchmen, while he was the head of the CIA, did precisely what they're accused of doing, which is withholding that intelligence.
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00:12:39.820Representative Matt Gaetz calling for an investigation into the bombshell O'Keefe reporting on these, well, statements that intelligence agencies, not agency, coordinated to hide information from the Trump White House.
00:13:17.400Ultimately, you're going to have to sack the senior leadership of all of these agencies, and you're going to have to put people in there that you can trust to, first of all, dig up what has happened and what's going on, and then hold the people that have done this responsible and make sure the president knows exactly what's going on, how it happened, and how to proceed into the future with people he can trust.
00:13:39.300Well, and that really isn't a solution, because then it's next man up, and the next man up is every bit as corrupt, because he is an appointee and a beneficiary of the previous leadership.
00:13:57.920There's got to be a way to get to this point.
00:14:00.900I look back over the course of intelligence in this country, Russ, and I know you have certainly throughout your career and your life.
00:14:10.460There's no good beginning point to say what happened to the integrity of our intelligence agencies, because if you reach all the way back to the 19—well, you could start with Truman and the creation of the CIA.
00:14:23.540You go through the 1950s, where the CIA is responsible for—and I happen to believe the reporting exactly.
00:14:34.520I mean, the influence of the CIA on the Gary Powers U-2 incident is clearly recorded within the CIA itself, as well as the State Department,
00:14:44.340and what the pressure they brought to bear on a recalcitrant president who didn't want to fly spy planes over the Soviet Union.
00:14:53.540He did, and he did after thorough convincing and lies from the intelligence community about what Gary Powers at 70,000 feet would be looking at in the way of his own danger to his own life and the aircraft he was flying.
00:15:12.000So, I mean, from there you go on to Vietnam, which was started under President Eisenhower.
00:15:19.460He is the one who sent the first advisors.
00:15:22.820John F. Kennedy sent more advisors and lied to the American people throughout about what he was doing.
00:15:28.200And then we had the Pentagon Papers about all of the lies of the intelligence agencies, all of the military-industrial complex, and, of course, the presidents from Johnson forward to Nixon.
00:15:46.280So, I mean, almost nothing is beyond credulity in assessing what the intelligence agencies have done, particularly as we've seen what they did with President Donald Trump and are still doing.
00:16:01.820Well, a lot of the problem is that when you put someone in charge of the intelligence agency that's an ambassador from somewhere or another and has a background in, I don't know, either politics or domestic politics
00:16:17.160or something generic like that from the State Department, and then another person is from, say, the chairman from either the HIPSI or the SISI, the intel committees on the House, where their former lawyers, and, you know, when they were – I always think of it this way.
00:16:37.760What was this person doing when they were 27 years old?
00:16:40.300Were they, you know, defending someone because, you know, they crashed a car and hurt someone, or were they spinning tapes at some remote place, you know, doing the spy work that has to be done?
00:16:55.440Am I understanding you correctly, Russ, that you're saying that you just can't trust the outsiders in the intel community because it's what you sound like?
00:17:02.840You sound like you're describing John Ratcliffe as the national director of intelligence.
00:17:08.140It sounds like you're talking about Mike Pompeo, who was brought in because he was, you know, a very eager politician with very, very high ambitions for himself.
00:17:21.080But we go through the annals of the intelligence community and the professionals, whether it's Richard Helms, whether it's, you know, John Allen Dulles.
00:17:35.000You go through all of these people, and, you know, it seems to me that you have plenty of people to choose from, that there is something rotten in the system itself.
00:17:47.760And I don't understand why people – we've just watched the Congress of the United States give the FBI $200 million for a new building.
00:17:56.600It will be the biggest building in D.C. in the federal – bigger than the Pentagon.
00:18:02.540And that's their reward for spying on a president, spying on both intelligence committees.
00:18:08.500That's their reward for going after the parents of children who yelled in a school board meeting.
00:18:17.620This is the reward for Christopher Wray for saying the greatest threat to the country are those doggone right-wing conservatives, those MAGA folks.
00:19:14.960Afghanistan, but how long went with 20 years we were there?
00:19:18.440And what's the – I've always said, no matter whether we leave – 15 years ago, I said, if we leave today, tomorrow, next week, next month, next year, five years, 10 years, 20 years, 200 years, 200 years,
00:19:28.340it will go right back to the way it was, the warlords in the mountains and the extremists in the valleys.
00:19:36.020So – and then we have these intel people and these generals that are lying through their teeth saying, oh, yes, we're training the Afghan army, and they're going to be – they're going to be fit to handle and –
00:19:47.540And, of course, it's blowing smoke up people's nether regions, and the problem is, like – yes, yes, I am referring to the folks that you mentioned, that these are neophytes that have no knowledge,
00:20:02.660and if you give me a neophyte and I need to pull the wool over their eyes, it's real easy for me to walk up and take the lollipop from the baby and, you know, entertain them some other way to keep them from crying with a jester jumping up and down.
00:20:17.280So, we're talking with Russ Tice, and we're going to kind of hone in on what chance does America have if its intelligence agencies are working for, well, unknown, unidentifiable patrons and causes instead of the United States of America.
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00:21:16.040And, Russ, I just have to turn here to, I am so dismayed at the level of conscience and the sense of duty on the part of the United States Congress right now.
00:21:29.260I'm talking about both political parties, frankly.
00:21:31.880A Speaker of the House who does not want to hold accountable the intelligence agencies, doesn't want to hold accountable those who have violated our laws, have spied on presidents, his own intelligence committees.
00:21:44.300I mean, we are adrift right now in a morass of corruption, political corruption, and certainly economic, financial corruption as well.
00:21:55.260Because the more wars we get, the more money the military-industrial complex makes, and the safer the jobs are of those in intel, because they get to be spying and bringing forth offerings to the President of the United States each day in the way of something called intelligence.
00:22:16.080That didn't recognize, apparently, 200,000 Russian troops around the border of Ukraine and the clear intent of Vladimir Putin to invade, didn't recognize anything that was going on in Africa, didn't understand what was going on in the conflict of tribes within various, particularly northern Africa.
00:22:41.600I mean, you go through this, and you look at what China is doing, and it's a surprise to American policymakers, because it's a surprise to our intel agencies.
00:22:52.280And there's not even a word uttered, as far as I know, by these intelligence agencies about the absolute assault on the U.S. dollar.
00:23:03.160There's not a word mentioned about economic stability and its importance to national security.
00:23:08.700And what in the world are you fools doing in all of those committees, whether it's armed services, whether it's appropriations, whatever it may be, because you are spending us right into a fiscal disaster of immense proportions.
00:23:33.960I guess if I had to pick one agency that's probably doing pretty well, it's the big old spy agency, your former agency, NSA.
00:23:42.520Well, one thing about NSA is their job is to look at signals intelligence.
00:23:46.000So you get to hear what your potential enemy is saying.
00:23:49.680Now, if that link is compromised, they may be saying something over the air to throw you off, which is part of that puzzle I told you where they throw in those puzzle pieces to throw you off the trail.
00:24:01.000Well, but it's it's not everyone in the until you when during the the situation.
00:24:11.260I'm not talking about the individuals.
00:24:13.100I'm really not, because many, as you are about to say, are great Americans.
00:24:18.320But what I am talking about are the corruption of those institutions and certainly their leadership, because they are accountable for I should be accountable for their transgressions against the Constitution, which they're supposed to be serving and the nation they're supposed to be serving.
00:24:38.700Well, for instance, Ben Laden, when we had him pinned down at the mountain, Tora Bora, everyone in the intel community was screaming at the president to call in the 101st or the 82nd Airborne to shore up the backside of that mountain because we knew it was porous.
00:24:55.460And we can go in and kill every living thing in that mountain.
00:25:00.640And for the for a period of time, I'm like, why?
00:25:03.360We begged the president, begged him, please do this will be done.
00:25:07.920And then I realized this is because they want a protracted war so they can spend billions of dollars and make a whole lot of defense folks and everybody else getting paid off a lot of money.
00:25:19.620It's also because the president you're talking of wanted the fundamental transformation of America.
00:25:24.840He had a number of agendas working at the same time, right?
00:25:30.460At my level, you know, I don't get to see that.
00:25:34.640But then, all right, so when we go into Iran, I mean, not Iran, Iraq, then supposedly we have everything calmed down basically because we bought off Muqtada al-Sadr by paying him cash every month.
00:25:48.240So we're paying him off for this supposed piece and everything we're doing is working.
00:25:54.420And once those payments stop, it all goes right back down the drain again.
00:25:58.980But the great thing is that everybody burned all of the poppy fields.
00:26:03.600So the warlords were completely without cash.
00:26:07.060You know, it's one of the great questions.
00:26:10.740It was utter corruption that the United States military and intel services did not destroy every every poppy field in Afghanistan.
00:26:20.740And deprive them of that capital and actually carry out a war.
00:26:26.700Now, I have to give the CIA and and the U.S. military great credit because within one year of entering, which was they entered in October of 20.
00:26:42.240They entered in that in that in that October period.
00:26:46.880They within within eight months had effective control of Afghanistan.
00:26:52.300They the CIA, their paramilitary and U.S. special forces.
00:26:57.540I mean, people, it's a matter of history.
00:26:59.660It's what we did after that that is monstrously stupid.
00:27:04.960That was only with the support of the warlords that we were able to do that.
00:27:08.840And where did the warlords get get met?
00:27:11.060Much of their their their proceeds were from the production of poppies.
00:27:15.720So not not only do we not burn the poppy fields, we had U.S. soldiers protecting the poppy fields because we're trying to win the hearts and minds of the locals.
00:27:26.120And the locals are the farmers growing the poppies.
00:27:29.200And that was their main source of income.
00:27:31.980The State Department sends a message over while we're over there that says, hey, tell tell the farmers to grow asparagus because apparently that helped a little.
00:27:41.140Well, yeah, in Central or South America, they did this to try to get farmers not to grow cocaine or a coca plants.
00:27:50.940And asparagus is a high yield vegetable that people like to buy.
00:27:54.300But if you've ever looked at the land, the turf in Afghanistan, it is the soil.
00:28:00.840The only thing you could grow is poppies.
00:28:17.180It certainly could be pivotal in bringing some understanding to the American people about exactly what their intelligence agencies are about,
00:28:27.280how politicized they are and how weaponized our federal government is against the American people.
00:28:37.240Thanks, everybody, for being with us today.
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