As we approach the mid-term elections, there is a lot going on, some of which is public and above board, and a lot more that is still in the shadows and out of sight, far from the prying eyes of American citizens who prize integrity in our elections, honesty in our elected officials, and insist on the public s right to know what their government is doing. We ll be talking with Kyle Arguin, Secretary of State for Louisiana, a national leader in the campaign to assure fair, honest elections in the great state of Louisiana, and Kelly Ward, Chair of the Republican Party in Arizona, on the fight for electoral integrity in Arizona.
00:07:59.480And so the competition is pretty hefty.
00:08:01.640And they use all means available legal and political in order to try to win contracts.
00:08:10.480And so that's what we've been up against in the last several years.
00:08:14.180So with Dominion, which has been the focus of some considerable criticism and concern and lawsuits as well,
00:08:25.900what are your plans with Dominion itself?
00:08:30.660Well, we have met with Dominion now three times in the last month.
00:08:36.100We have made sure that all of the mitigation efforts that are necessary to make sure that the early voting machines are working properly.
00:08:48.540Our Election Day machines aren't technically Dominion machines.
00:08:51.800They go back to a company called Diebold and Sequoia that ended up being bought out by Dominion.
00:08:59.960So I pushed hard to find out what was in Dr. Haldeman's report.
00:09:06.520Last December I sued to try to be admitted into the court case in Georgia so that I could get the information to secure our machines moving forward.
00:09:23.260The Secretary of State in Georgia also opposed my intervention.
00:09:26.820So I started pushing for CISA to get involved and to help us make certain that we had the information we needed in order to fix any possible vulnerabilities.
00:09:42.420So we've utilized all the recommendations from CISA.
00:09:47.260But in addition to that, we had about 12 additional recommendations that my staff came up with that we're currently working on to mitigate any concerns moving forward.
00:09:57.740Now, a lot of folks right now are wondering, you know, this is an awfully complicated subject.
00:10:03.460And when you talk about Sequoia and Diebold and just a matter of complete transparency here, I started working on the issue of electronic voting and the concerns with it in a democracy 20 years ago.
00:10:34.800And those old systems had immense vulnerabilities.
00:10:37.160You're not saying that this current Dominion machines have the same, let's say troubled or concerning aspects to them that existed 20 years ago.
00:10:49.460are you? No. What I'm saying, you know, 20 years ago, obviously, the technology wasn't the same as
00:10:58.100today. I think in terms of today's efforts, I think the concern is how far has the technology
00:11:05.360come, and are we able to make sure that they're accurately counting votes as people intend to
00:11:13.700vote, and that's why a paper-based system is so important in order to confirm accuracy or, in some
00:11:22.040cases, allow voters not to have to use the machines at all. I think what we need to do, and I think it's
00:11:28.640incumbent upon states to make sure that whatever is used to tally the votes is separate from the
00:11:38.100actual machines that either mark ballots or record voters' intent and not be the actual tallies
00:11:46.460machinery. And then, obviously... That's interesting. That's interesting. Yeah. To separate the ballots
00:11:55.400and, if you will, the counting machines, voting machines and counting machines. Is that an easy
00:12:02.580way to say it, or is it incorrect? That's an easy way to say it. That's exactly right. So, I think
00:12:09.660that's smart as smart as can be. Are your machines in any way hooked to the internet? No. Never have
00:12:19.440been. We know that vulnerability exists, so we check for it. We have tamper-proof seals that we put
00:12:27.320on our machines. The old machines don't even have any capability. They're so old. And so, they're just
00:12:37.100basically, you know, a calculator, if you will. But the newer machines, the early voting machines, and the
00:12:47.520machines, I guess, that are used in the state of Georgia and elsewhere are, you know, newer technology. And so, you
00:12:55.620have to make sure that, one, you provide for tamper-proof seals so people can't get
00:13:02.180into them. You keep them under lock and key. And in Louisiana, we don't allow the vendor
00:13:09.820to program any of our machines. All of our ballots are programmed by us in our state, by
00:13:17.160my employees, and then programmed onto the machines directly. So, we don't let the vendors touch the
00:13:23.240machines once they're in our possession and we utilize them. But again, Lou, it's, you know, the
00:13:29.440more you can air gap things, the more that you can separate productivity. So, you know, the machines
00:13:37.360mark the ballots, or you allow individuals to mark their ballots, and then you separate that from
00:13:42.360the tabulators and let the tabulators do their job without any Wi-Fi connectivity, sort of just a,
00:13:50.080you know, a dumb calculator kind of thing. And then you, and then you audit the tabulators
00:13:56.200afterwards. That, you know, if we want quick results, then we're going to have to use automation.
00:14:02.880If people don't care about how long it takes to count votes, which I think they do, because they're
00:14:07.520worried about undue influence in the process, then, then you have to, you have to figure out how can I
00:14:14.020get unofficial results, and then how can I audit it after the election to make sure that before we
00:14:20.120certify that everything was accurate. And, and I think that's the key. That's what, I think that's
00:14:25.540what Americans are looking for all across the country. I think that's, I think that's well said,
00:14:30.500Kyle. And Americans right now are a little tired. I mean, you just used the reference to early
00:14:36.220voting. Early voting has become a category unto itself, with greater precedence and more time
00:14:42.600available and an attempt to attract people to, in many states, early voting, or, you know, incessant
00:14:51.540voting, if you will. This has become a, instead of an election day, this has become, across most of the
00:14:58.020country, I believe is a fair statement. It's election season, for crying out loud. And this is creating,
00:15:04.300in and of itself, as you well know, immense distrust and skepticism about the integrity of each state's
00:15:13.300voting systems. Yeah, Lou, that's why I pursue and, and, and push hard in-person voting, because I think
00:15:24.620that's the best way for individuals to make sure that their vote was cast as accurately as possible. I'm not a
00:15:32.340big fan of, of mail voting. I know that that, that is a process by which we have to utilize for, you know,
00:15:38.580elderly, for sick, disabled individuals, and people who travel a lot. I get that. But the more that you
00:15:47.620can have people vote in person, gives the voter the best shot at making sure that their vote is,
00:15:54.380is accurately counted. And one thing we do in Louisiana that's different from many other states,
00:16:00.760I don't want to say all states, because I just don't know their, all their details. But for
00:16:05.820Louisiana, if you vote by absentee, one, you have to request the ballot by filling out a form,
00:16:13.680identifying yourself, and giving the reason why you're asking for an absentee ballot. And you have
00:16:17.840to sign it as if you were attesting and, you know, testifying in court against, you know, perjury,
00:16:26.380possible perjury, et cetera. So then once that's processed, and the registrar believes, the local
00:16:32.580registrar believes that that's a legitimate request, then the ballot's sent. We track all
00:16:37.060that, when it's returned. And every single absentee ballot that is to be counted has to be in
00:16:44.020the registrar's office by 4 30 p.m. the day before the election. That way, then we can process it and
00:16:51.480make sure, one, the person's removed from the election day rolls. We do a supplemental list
00:16:57.540that goes to every precinct in the state on election morning. And if that ballot is not in
00:17:04.620by 4 30 p.m. the day before the election, it is not counted. Whereas in other states, and we saw this
00:17:10.880in 2020 in the presidential election, states were still counting ballots that came in if they had a
00:17:16.080postmarked days after the election. And I just don't think that's, see, when you talk about
00:17:22.260election season, you know, I don't know any hunter that can go duck hunting or deer hunting after the
00:17:29.800season's over. It's not, there's no possibility for that. It ends on the day. And I think that's what,
00:17:35.880that's the problem we're having right now. And a lot, why there's a lack of confidence in the
00:17:40.420process, because elections turn after election day, and it just doesn't make sense.
00:17:46.080Absolutely. And I want to point out to everybody that the Secretary of State of Louisiana,
00:17:53.020Secretary Arguin, has made it certain that there will be no ballot harvesting.
00:17:58.840Tell us about how you, how that went and how much opposition you had to get it done.
00:18:06.940Well, it actually, it, it passed early on, I believe in 2020. And before people really understood
00:18:16.060in depth what ballot harvesting would look like. And so we were able to pass it bipartisanly and have
00:18:25.680the governor sign it. But what we did was we wanted to make sure within our current system that any
00:18:33.680expansion for COVID, the minuscule expansion that we had for absentee by mail voting, would not
00:18:42.820create a problem for our election. And so we wanted to make sure that no political party,
00:18:52.440no political candidate or campaign, no political action committee, and no 501c3 or 501c4,
00:19:03.120quote unquote, nonprofit organizations were would create an advantage for one side or the other. So we
00:19:12.420outlawed them being able to harvest absentee ballot requests or absentee ballots. And, you know, in
00:19:22.460Louisiana, the only time someone can turn in a ballot for another person is if it's a family member,
00:19:28.820or if it's a neighbor, you can do one or the other, but you can't do both. And if it's for immediate
00:19:35.820family, you can only bring in two, but you have to bring them in person, you have to show ID, and you
00:19:40.140have to fill out a form saying that you were given permission to do this, what your relationship is
00:19:45.680to those individuals, and you have to show your ID so that we can confirm who you are, and you have to sign
00:19:51.500it under penalty of law, which is an election fraud, which is a felony in the state of Louisiana.
00:20:01.660So, you know, we tightened it all up, we made sure we were going to have integrity in our elections,
00:20:08.280and we made sure that organizations weren't going to be able to manipulate our elections. So
00:20:13.120I was really excited when we got that that legislation passed. Absolutely. Zucker Bucks,
00:20:22.160I think most people understand it, primarily the $415 million that Mark Zuckerberg threw into the
00:20:31.920election to tip the scales in favor of the Democrats in the 2020 election. You tried to ban Zucker Bucks
00:20:42.040in Louisiana, but as I understand it, your Democratic governor there, John Bell Edwards,
00:20:48.680didn't like it. So he wanted to have that freedom that Zucker Bucks bring. Your reaction?
00:20:57.160Frustrated, aggravated, and obviously, when you look at what Zucker Bucks did, and we put it on the record,
00:21:05.920the manipulation, and how it was used to change the outcome of the election, and where those dollars
00:21:13.040were spent, and how those dollars were spent, you know, it's very frustrating. In my opinion,
00:21:20.080along with my attorney general and the author of the legislation two years in a row, Representative
00:21:26.240like Miguez, we all together fought that issue and wanted to make sure that no outside money
00:21:35.840infiltrates our local election offices. And, you know, it's frustrating to me that it's such a political
00:21:44.640issue because if you look at it from either side of the aisle, if you will, then you could see how
00:21:52.080individuals or small groups with a lot of money could manipulate the outcome of an election.
00:22:00.160And it's, for me, as an election official, as a chief elections officer of the state of Louisiana,
00:22:08.800it's my job to make sure that everybody knows the rules and the playing field is level, and that we
00:22:14.560have an honest, accurate, secure election. And you can't do that when private money is infiltrating
00:22:21.600the election administration. You know, when you start giving money to different...
00:22:27.520So what are you going to do about it? I mean...
00:22:30.560Well, we don't allow for ballot boxes in the state of Louisiana. So we're going to watch for it. The
00:22:36.400attorney general and I are watching for it. If anything occurs, we're going straight to court.
00:22:41.840We're going to stop its usage. Luckily, I have more authority as the chief elections officer in
00:22:47.120the state of Louisiana to direct how elections are handled across our state. And so I'm able to
00:22:53.360stop some of the shenanigans that might be utilized or that was utilized in 2020.
00:23:01.920Well, you also have the authority to suspend participation in the so-called electronic registration
00:23:08.000center, the system called ERIC. You're very upset with the fact that it didn't seem to you that it was
00:23:18.160helping you in any way to boost the accuracy or voter rolls or assure election integrity. Tell us more about that.
00:23:26.640Well, I felt when looking at it in depth, I didn't feel like the security measures are there.
00:23:34.880I didn't feel like that there was enough third-party auditing to make certain that our
00:23:41.040voters' data was not being infiltrated by third parties and then manipulated. As you know,
00:23:47.440one of the significant things about the ERIC operation is that they use motor vehicle information
00:23:56.560from all the states. And so when you're able to do that, my concern is, are they manipulating it? They
00:24:04.400force us to try to register unregistered voters, which is fine. That's an important thing if people
00:24:11.920want to get registered to vote and participate. But what they didn't do is they didn't force states
00:24:16.560to clean up their voter rolls. And that was evident post the 2020 presidential election. And so I just
00:24:25.520felt like there are other opportunities out there that we can look forward to to clean up our rolls. And
00:24:31.840I'll work in those directions and not put Louisiana at risk of having our voter rolls manipulated
00:24:40.720or voter data manipulated for by third parties without any security mechanisms.
00:24:49.680Is there any question about the people who run ERIC, who have funded ERIC and perhaps political purposes as well?
00:25:02.240Well, you know, I don't want to get into personalities because it really wasn't a personality issue. It was
00:25:06.960more about how the process worked and which companies had contracts and how the operations,
00:25:14.320the information was exchanged and who had access or didn't have access and how that was audited.
00:25:20.400You know, there's a lot of stories out there as to how it got started. I will say this, you know,
00:25:25.280there are some, a member or two on the board of directors that probably shouldn't be there. And I know
00:25:30.640that there's some secretaries of state, Republicans that are seeking some reforms of ERIC. But until
00:25:38.000that's accomplished, I felt like it was just best for Louisiana to remove itself from the situation