The Great America Show - SUPREMES TO DECIDE AMERICA’S FUTURE

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00:01:14.940 Hello everybody. I'm Lou Dobbs. Welcome to the Great America Show. The House of Representatives

00:01:22.860 passing the almost $900 billion NDAA, the defense spending bill. $130 billion more over the past

00:01:32.560 year, a decidedly inflationary 15% annual increase. Here are some of the important line items in the

00:01:39.640 bill that the House Speaker, Mike Johnson, decided not to fight against, such as Biden's taxpayer-funded

00:01:47.400 abortion travel program and funding for gender transition surgeries in the military, part of

00:01:53.200 the NDAA. So is the funding for critical race theory at military universities and still no protection for

00:02:00.580 service members who were discharged for refusing the China virus vaccines, extending the FISA 702 program

00:02:08.500 even more alarming because both the House GOP's bill and Schumer Senate bill didn't call for that

00:02:14.860 extension, which means the insertion of 702 was all the doing of Speaker Mike Johnson. So why did Mike

00:02:22.720 Johnson do this to the American people? Perhaps it has something to do with Johnson's meeting

00:02:28.340 with Rhino Paul Ryan. This week, the former Speaker Ryan was on a podcast and couldn't contain his advanced

00:02:36.000 case of Trump derangement syndrome. Ryan is a very sick and jealous fellow, it seems to me, going after

00:02:42.920 President Trump, apparently at the behest of donors or candidates, because Ryan doesn't have to make

00:02:49.320 sense. Here he is. Trump's not a conservative. He's an authoritarian narcissist. So I think they basically

00:02:55.340 called him out for that. He's a populist authoritarian narcissist. So historically speaking, all of his

00:03:01.480 tendencies are basically where narcissism takes him, which is whatever makes him popular, makes him feel

00:03:06.300 good at any given moment. And he doesn't think in classical liberal conservative terms. He thinks

00:03:13.800 in an authoritarian way. And he's been able to get a big chunk of the Republican base to follow him

00:03:19.840 because, you know, he's the culture warrior. Authoritarian, narcissistic, and not a conservative.

00:03:26.360 The three words Ryan used to describe Trump, but that sounds like projection. Paul Ryan, to a T,

00:03:32.740 in fact. And great news out of the D.C. District Court for President Trump. Marxist District Judge

00:03:38.740 Tanya Chutkin has agreed to pause proceedings while Special Counsel Jack Smith seeks a ruling from the

00:03:45.320 Supreme Court on the scope of the president's immunity, whether he's entitled to broad immunity

00:03:51.120 from criminal prosecution. Chutkin says Trump's appeal means she must automatically stay further

00:03:57.420 proceedings. Our guest today is investigative reporter Julie Kelly. She's been reporting on all the

00:04:03.480 missteps of the Marxist Special Counsel Jack Smith has been covering the Trump trials like no one else.

00:04:09.780 Julie, I want to say first of all, welcome. And then second of all, thanks for all of your great work,

00:04:15.100 all the great work you're doing, all of the recognition you're receiving now, and absolutely

00:04:19.620 richly deserved. I'm very proud of you and grateful for your time here today.

00:04:24.900 Well, so kind, Lou, and thank you so much for covering my work and helping to bring my reporting

00:04:30.680 to your audience. I really appreciate it.

00:04:33.160 Well, you're more than welcome. And again, we're just delighted for you. And thanks again for all you're

00:04:39.500 doing. Let's start with the Supreme Court. Didn't take them long to react to

00:04:44.360 to Jack Smith, the special counsel. Were you surprised at the quickness of their response?

00:04:52.360 I was surprised and shocked and a little disheartened, quite frankly, because what we were

00:04:59.860 waiting for this week is for the Supreme Court to finally grant cert or accept to review this case,

00:05:06.860 this 1512 C2 obstruction of an official proceeding case that has been before them for the past few

00:05:13.880 months. So we were hoping that we would hear that they would pick that up. And this, of course,

00:05:18.480 has ramifications. We can get into details for more than 300 January 6th defendants and is half of

00:05:24.740 Jack Smith's indictment against Donald Trump. So on Monday, we were waiting for that order. Well,

00:05:29.860 they kicked it down the road, we thought anyway, until January, but then came back within a matter

00:05:35.780 of four or five hours after Jack Smith filed his exceptionally rare motion asking the Supreme Court

00:05:43.420 to settle the presidential immunity issue, leapfrogging over the appellate court. This is very unusual

00:05:50.340 and asking them to hear arguments and then render their decision on this unprecedented

00:05:56.300 presidential immunity claim by Donald Trump. Of course, this has never happened before. So they

00:06:01.900 want the Supreme Court to weigh in and bypass really the appellate court. So they came back with that

00:06:07.020 answer right away. So a lot of us were pretty dejected, but then this morning heard the very encouraging

00:06:12.780 news that the Supreme Court is going to take up the 1512 C2 obstruction of an official proceeding felony.

00:06:18.420 In April, the DC appellate court issued what was called a splintered ruling. A three-judge panel

00:06:26.260 basically came up with three different opinions on whether DOJ was intentionally misinterpreting

00:06:31.320 the statute, which of course they have been. And so we all suspected this would end up at the

00:06:36.800 Supreme Court. So finally, today we got the announcement so many have been waiting for

00:06:40.620 the Supreme Court will review it. And most people feel pretty strongly that they are going to reverse

00:06:46.480 how the DOJ and these judges in DC have been implementing this post-Enron statute to instead

00:06:54.020 criminalize political dissent. Well, we're all hoping for that result. And so in the case of the DC

00:07:04.460 courts, the massive and I think spectacularly obvious political corruption of a number of those courts,

00:07:14.760 courts, is there any prospect that we will see this in your judgment? Is there any reason why the

00:07:22.840 Supreme Court would not reign those courts in a bit? No. I mean, I feel much more optimistic that

00:07:29.740 the Supreme Court will reign in what happened with the 1512 C2 because it's so egregious and it's so

00:07:37.460 brazen how the DOJ has twisted the language in that statute to make it fit that what happened on

00:07:46.120 January 6th, the largely ceremonial certification of the Electoral College count somehow is an official

00:07:52.840 proceeding. And when that statute was passed as part of the 2002 Sarbanes-Oxley Act, it was to fill

00:07:59.460 in what some viewed as a gap in laws related to tampering or destroying evidence. And of course,

00:08:07.800 we remember that in the Enron-Arthur Anderson case where they were accused of shredding documents.

00:08:13.480 That is what that statute was meant to address. Not people interrupting a function of Congress, which,

00:08:20.500 of course, people do all the time. They aren't considered felons then and charged with

00:08:26.220 obstruction of an official proceeding and punishable up to 20 years in prison. Many people who have been

00:08:32.460 convicted or taken plea deals have spent three, four, five years in prison. We have a tragic case

00:08:38.240 of Matthew Perna, a man who took a plea deal for obstruction and then found out DOJ was going to

00:08:44.080 seek years in prison and he hanged himself. So the really tragic aspect of this, even though it's

00:08:50.060 encouraging news, is where do these people go to get their lives back? Where did they go get years

00:08:55.620 that they spent in prison? Where do Matthew Perna's family get him back? I mean, there is so much

00:09:04.020 human wreckage for this Department of Justice, Merrick Garland, Lisa Monaco, and Matthew Graves,

00:09:10.540 the DCUS attorney, for brazenly exploiting, bastardizing this statute to turn these people

00:09:17.660 into felons. This will be one of the worst abuses of law authority by this Department of Justice

00:09:25.040 in American history. Most people feel very strongly that it won't even be a close call,

00:09:31.200 that the Supreme Court will come in with a strong majority opinion to reverse the DOJ on what they've

00:09:37.840 been doing here. And of course, this does have very serious consequences for special counsel Jack

00:09:43.420 Smith at a very precarious time for his case against Donald Trump for January 6th as well.

00:09:49.320 You're listening to investigative reporter Julie Kelly. We'll be right back with Julie. Stay with us.

00:09:55.040 We're back now with Julie Kelly, and we were discussing Jack Smith. Before I turn to Jack

00:10:07.920 Smith, I would like to get a sense from you. How many people do you believe to be, I know there's no

00:10:13.160 certain count, but believed to be confined in the gulags of DC because of 1512 particularly?

00:10:24.660 There aren't, there aren't as many now, but I will say that early on in the investigation and the

00:10:30.200 prosecution, most, a good portion of the defendants who were denied release and held in the DC gulag,

00:10:38.820 their most serious charge was 1512 C2. This was the charge that was levied against the so-called

00:10:46.760 militia members, the Proud Boys and the Oath Keepers. And this charge alone resulted in pre-trial

00:10:53.600 detention, denying bail for these defendants until eventually Matthew Graves brought more serious

00:10:59.400 charge seditious conspiracy. But you had people languishing. I mean, I'm thinking of someone like

00:11:05.320 Tim Hale, a naval reservist. He was charged with obstruction and four misdemeanors. Judge Trevor

00:11:11.620 McFadden refused to release him from the DC gulag. He languished in that gulag for 15 months before he

00:11:18.800 even went to trial. And of course, was immediately convicted by a DC jury. He is just now getting out

00:11:25.560 of jail after nearly three years. And his most serious offense is 1512 C2. He didn't assault police

00:11:32.600 officers. He didn't vandalize any property. That was his most serious charge. Today, for example,

00:11:38.960 Sarah Carpenter, a former NYPD police officer, she was her most serious conviction, obstruction of an

00:11:46.400 official proceeding and five misdemeanors. This DOJ has come back and asked for 66 months in prison

00:11:52.280 just yesterday for her. And most of the time that they want is related to her conviction of

00:11:59.960 obstruction of an official proceeding. Now, her attorney today filed an emergency motion

00:12:04.960 seeking to vacate the sentencing date until the Supreme Court resolves this matter. You're going

00:12:12.020 to see an avalanche of motions similar to that, including releasing defendants who are serving

00:12:17.700 out prison time right now on that conviction. This is a complete, this will be a complete

00:12:25.420 humiliation for the Department of Justice and at least 15 DC judges who refused to dismiss this

00:12:32.740 count against hundreds of defendants. The only judge who did this is Carl Nichols, a Trump appointee.

00:12:39.560 He dismissed this charge against three defendants. That's how we got it to the Supreme Court.

00:12:44.020 And the delicious irony here is that the Department of Justice appealed Judge Nichols' dismissal of the

00:12:51.280 case. We wouldn't even be here if it was not for DOJ appealing it. That's called karma.

00:12:58.020 It certainly is. And let's hope that sustains throughout these proceedings. It is unimaginable

00:13:08.760 to think what has this Department of Justice, this FBI, this administration has done in the greatest

00:13:17.480 democracy, the greatest constitutional republic in history, which is defile it all, and to do so wantonly

00:13:25.960 and with absolute purpose. You said the human wreckage here is awful, and I don't know how it's made

00:13:36.900 right, but I hope that we find a way to make it as right as can be. Turning to Special Counsel Jack

00:13:45.000 Jack Smith seeking the declaration by the Supreme Court as to whether or not President Trump has

00:13:56.000 immunity for crimes allegedly committed during his presidency. What do you think the mood of

00:14:02.860 and the thinking will be of the Supreme Court? You know, it's hard to say. Like I said, I'm less

00:14:09.680 optimistic that they will deny or that they will grant President Trump's claims of executive immunity

00:14:19.080 here. Even though this is the first time the court has had to deal with this issue, whether a president

00:14:26.860 can be criminally charged or whether that is what the impeachment process is for. That's also part of

00:14:34.680 Donald Trump's lawyer's argument is that the proper system to adjudicate any alleged crimes committed in

00:14:42.460 office is impeachment. And of course, he was impeached by the House related to the events of

00:14:48.020 January 6th and attempts to, quote unquote, overturn the 2020 election. So does this represent double

00:14:53.820 jeopardy? But something else the court will have to address, not just whether he's entitled to

00:14:59.480 presidential immunity, period, from criminal prosecution, but whether that matter has already

00:15:04.520 been settled by the House when they voted to impeach him in the spring of 2021. So these are really

00:15:10.640 politically fraught issues that will have consequences that far outlast anything that Donald Trump will

00:15:18.400 do, not reelected or reelected. What the Supreme Court will do if they deny his claims of presidential

00:15:26.340 immunity is set the stage now for every president who loses an election to a candidate of the opposing party of that

00:15:34.940 Department of Justice then opening and pursuing criminal charges for anything. And what was interesting in Donald

00:15:42.800 Trump's motion that was filed Thursday, excuse me, Wednesday morning to opposing Jack Smith's motion before the

00:15:53.060 appellate court to expedite that as well, is, well, can we go back then and charge George W. Bush for his crimes for

00:16:01.020 misleading the American people about weapons of mass destruction, resulting in the deaths of really how many

00:16:07.260 millions of people around the world, thousands of US soldiers. So they kind of went through a brief litany of how then this

00:16:14.960 could be applied to former presidents, and of course, future presidents as well. This would be a slippery slope into the

00:16:21.220 banana republic style territory that I and others have been warning about. So this is a very heavy duty decision for the

00:16:29.180 Supreme Court to make, which is just one of many reasons why it should not be fast tracked. And I'll be very surprised if the

00:16:36.900 Supreme Court does accept his petition to grant cert and move forward with this on an expedited basis, rather than say no, this is

00:16:46.060 going to go to the proper channels, it is going to go to the appellate court, three judge panel, then maybe the full

00:16:51.900 court, then it's coming here. We're not doing your dirty work, Jack Smith. So you and Tanya Chutkin can stick with this

00:16:59.420 March 4th trial date, because of course, they want to rush the trial, get a quick conviction, and try to get him behind

00:17:06.180 bars. Now, what the Supreme Court did today throws another huge monkey wrench. And I will say, you know, even further than we were a few

00:17:14.260 days ago, that March 4th trial date looks almost impossible to keep in place.

00:17:21.860 But on the other hand, Julie, it also that we should remind everyone that March 4th date is one day before the

00:17:31.040 Super Tuesday primaries, a date that is was, I will put it this way, coincidentally disadvantageous to

00:17:38.940 President Trump from the beginning. I don't know what happened should they make a quick decision.

00:17:46.700 We're going to find out what Julie Kelly thinks about that prospect, and many others as we continue

00:17:51.800 here on The Great America Show. We're talking with Julie Kelly. Stay with us. We'll be right back.

00:17:56.620 And we're back now with Julie Kelly. And Julie, we were talking just at the other side of this

00:18:08.300 that most recent commercial break about what would happen if they did get a expedited decision,

00:18:17.340 a ruling from the Supreme Court on Jack Smith's issue about presidential immunity for alleged crimes

00:18:24.540 committed during his presidency. Right. So I don't even see if they get a fast track calendar at the

00:18:31.740 Supreme Court, how this will possibly be settled before March 4th. Now, keep in mind, because this

00:18:37.900 is an immunity appeal, that all of the pretrial deadlines are now on hold. That means jury selection

00:18:46.700 that's supposed to technically start on January 9th. There's reporting that the jury surveys initial

00:18:52.900 surveys have already been sent out to prospective jurors explaining that this March 4th trial date,

00:18:58.100 and it could go a few months. So how do you unwind that? So there are all sorts of deadlines that are

00:19:04.820 essentially on hold as the trial date is essentially on hold by law until the immunity issue is settled,

00:19:14.500 even if they fast track it. And how can the Supreme Court get away with what, no oral arguments?

00:19:20.980 They're just going to issue some order? I guess they can do that as well. I don't see that happening,

00:19:26.100 especially at a time when the legitimacy of the court, especially on the left, is so precarious. They

00:19:31.300 certainly don't want the right helping to delegitimize this court as well. So even if they do grant cert,

00:19:38.740 and they do fast track it, there's no way this will be settled in time for all of these other,

00:19:44.100 you know, and there's other serious litigation involved, classified information rules that will

00:19:49.460 have to be litigated. And keep in mind too, another reason Jack Smith wants this March 4th deadline,

00:19:56.260 March 4th trial date, because it is, it also hinges on the May 20th trial in the classified documents case.

00:20:06.100 Now, Judge Aileen Cannon has suspended all those pre-trial deadlines arguing with Smith's team,

00:20:12.500 and she directly told them in a hearing last month, I was there. And she said, there's a very

00:20:17.060 good chance the DC Washington March trial could overlap with the trial that's expected to start here.

00:20:24.100 And she asked Jay Brett, Jack Smith's top prosecutor, do you not see a problem here? I mean,

00:20:30.420 he's entitled to prepare for his own defense. He can't do that if he's on trial in Washington.

00:20:36.420 And he said, yes, I guess they could overlap. So she's already suspended that.

00:20:40.500 So if this trial somehow gets pushed into April or May, the classified documents trial is gone for this

00:20:46.740 year. There's no way, and she will never allow it to happen, you know, as the general election gets

00:20:52.020 closer and closer. So these are all the moving parts to this. But for right now, things don't

00:20:58.660 look good for Jack Smith and Tanya Chutkin as they try to force that March 4th trial date down

00:21:03.380 Donald Trump's throat and our throat too. Julie, thanks for the clarity. And I think everyone

00:21:08.500 has benefited immensely from the way you've laid this out and explained what is a very complicated

00:21:13.860 legal process. I believe the Supreme Court will be the country's best chance to right so many wrongs

00:21:21.300 and to move into November of next year for the election with the greatest chance of an election

00:21:28.660 of some integrity and security. Julie Kelly, thanks so much for being with us. We appreciate it so much

00:21:35.380 and God bless you. You too, Luke. Thanks so much for having me on. Thanks everybody for being with us.

00:21:40.740 Our guest here tomorrow on The Great America Show is Jim Hoft. He's the founder of The Gateway Pundit.

00:21:45.940 Please join us and please join us each and every day for The Great America Show. Thanks,

00:21:50.500 everybody. God bless you and God bless America.

The Great America Show - December 15, 2023

SUPREMES TO DECIDE AMERICA’S FUTURE

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