Judicial Watch President Tom Fenton joins Lou Dobbs on the Great America Saturday Show to discuss the DOJ's latest attempt to jail a Trump aide, Peter Navarro, for refusing to comply with a subpoena from Liz Cheney's J-6 committee.
00:10:25.800I hope you'll be joining us for Lou Dobbs Tonight as our fight to save this country has only begun.
00:10:38.520We're back now. We're talking with Judicial Watch's Tom Fenton.
00:10:42.760And Tom, the lawsuit that you filed against the U.S. government on behalf of Ashley Babbitt,
00:10:48.740it is stunning to me that not a single legislator, representative of the House or Senate,
00:10:57.080anyone has taken up her cause over this time since January 6th.
00:11:03.460And thank you for doing so. And the information that you've already developed and revealed in your the papers and filings that you've made,
00:11:13.280I think, will astonish most Americans, don't you?
00:11:16.600Yeah, I think it's troubling. You know, I think it's troubling not only as president of Judicial Watch,
00:11:21.180but as a citizen who's obviously watched this, as other Americans have.
00:11:25.580It's a $30 million wrongful death lawsuit for Aaron Babbitt, her widower and her state.
00:11:32.340And it shows that Lieutenant Michael Byrd, the U.S. Capitol Police officer who worked for Congress,
00:11:37.660that the defendant is the federal government. You know, he's a federal employee in the end.
00:11:42.000And, you know, shot her without justification. And I've talked to you about this before, Lewis.
00:11:50.300I've watched the video repeatedly for obvious reasons. And forget about the lawsuit and all that.
00:11:56.640Just personally watching it time and time again. The first thing I think is, I can't believe he shot her.
00:12:03.140I can't believe he shot her. I just can't believe it.
00:12:07.280And certainly any police officer or honest law enforcement official or, frankly, you know, alert citizen would see that's not a right, correct shooting.
00:12:20.500So we know the rules were all broken that the U.S. Capitol Police had by Byrd in that shooting.
00:12:26.340We know separately that after he shot her, he issued a call on the radio, shots fired, shots fired, and suggested shots were being fired at him,
00:12:38.520when in fact he was the only person who shot. So what was he doing then?
00:12:42.280Was he trying to create a cover or just further highlights the impropriety of what he had done?
00:12:48.820And then, of course, he had a record suggesting he should have been nowhere near that situation.
00:12:52.340By the way, he was incident commander there.
00:12:56.680So he was one of the top security officials in the House that day.
00:13:02.160And he had left his loaded weapon in a bathroom in the Capitol Visitor Center,
00:13:07.280which is the major way visitors and tourists and such enter the U.S. Capitol complex.
00:13:13.740I don't know how long you lost a gun for, but it was found by someone else.
00:13:16.980And then, secondly, he shot at his own car because it looks like some juveniles were trying to steal it.
00:13:23.340And, you know, that was a crazy shoot, too.
00:13:25.520Bullets went all over by the account we understand happened.
00:14:00.180And then separately, the U.S. Capitol Police, you know, the Pelosi operation there had no interest in holding him accountable either administratively.
00:14:10.220So it's up to us to do this through this lawsuit.
00:14:12.880And, you know, Ashley deserves justice.
00:14:14.920And so that's what we're trying to achieve here.
00:14:20.960There's more at work here, though, than simply a tragic shooting and a misunderstanding about various aspects of it.
00:14:31.160You know, I did not realize he had sent out that radio call until I read your filings that it had occurred.
00:14:38.220That within one minute of that shooting, he is coming up with a fictional cover saying shots fired and he's prepared to to fire in return.
00:14:54.040I mean, that's a bizarre thing to have happened.
00:14:56.760But it is also you don't have to be, you know, to me, you don't have to be a very diligent or brilliant detective to say, you know, that looks like somebody's trying to cover something up.
00:15:13.240And then you go through, as you said, and as you go through this, he's put in a the distinguished visitors suite at Andrew's Air Force Base.
00:15:25.480I mean, this is designed for military, high military officers, and he's there not for a night, not for two nights, and not for any ostensible reason other than to keep him out of public view.
00:15:38.220And he's there for six months for crying out loud.
00:15:42.080Is there any explanation for that other than they wanted to keep him out of the public view and hide him from the media?
00:15:52.760I remember we didn't even know what his name was, what his identity was, you know, what his name was until months after the shooting.
00:16:02.360I mean, some folks had guessed who he was, but that was an official, you know, so you didn't know.
00:16:06.440And and it was clear his identity was they tried to hide because if his identity became known, this other background information we were able to uncover.
00:16:18.040And certainly there is a story well known about him leaving the gun behind wouldn't have been helpful.
00:16:23.540So they tried to stall as long as they could.
00:16:27.240And, you know, again, you don't have to be a detective, as you say, you don't have to be a police officer or a law enforcement official.
00:16:35.680We've all seen how we handle police shootings in this day and age, right?
00:16:40.480Whether they're justified or seemingly unjustified, you don't want to be, you know, if you holster, if you unholster your gun and fire it and your police officer, you can you can expect significant investigation that did not occur for Lieutenant Byrd.
00:17:55.120Everything that you do, your voice is critically important to this country.
00:17:59.460I just want to know what you think of what is happening right now, the Marxist left, the Marxist Dems, outdoing themselves, using diversity as an excuse to put in the FAA people with serious psychiatric problems, mental disabilities.
00:18:16.640Well, people have to be, summon the courage to say that standards are not racist, they're not sexist, they're not classist, they're not, you know, anti-disabilist.
00:18:31.480Colorblind, neutral standards are the way that a civilization saves itself, improves itself, saves people from premature death through poverty and squalor.
00:18:43.640And yet, we are so terrified to speak about the, in the case of race diversity, to speak about the massive academic skills gaps that prevent the facile attainment of diversity under neutral colorblind standards,
00:19:05.640Americans turn their eyes away because they are so well-meaning, they believe in racial etiquette, and they don't want to take, bring attention to the pathological inner city culture that is resulting in massive academic skills gaps.
00:19:33.200And instead, they're willing to put their own lives at risk through things like telling the FAA that it's more important that they get diverse flight controllers than ones who have the skills, the academic skills, the IQ, the motor coordination to handle keeping planes safe in the air rather than crashing into each other.
00:19:57.800In the name of diversity, in the name of diversity, for crying out loud, it's, it boggles the mind, it is, it's just impossible to understand how we've gotten to this position in our society, in our culture, in our politics.
00:20:14.860And I have to say, right now, as we're watching the caucuses unfold in Iowa, and a selection of a president, I hope it's an election of a president, I should say, an election of a president.
00:20:31.800And we have a group of people, the Democrat Party is now the Marxist Party in this country.
00:20:39.120And we have people who just don't want to acknowledge that.
00:20:42.180They don't want to acknowledge that everything we saw over the course of the past couple of months at MIT, UPenn, at Harvard, Cornell, we're watching a, these are indoctrination factories.
00:20:58.800In matter of fact, I mean, they're a left wing scam.
00:21:02.520They're, they're a program to subsidize left wing Marxist professors and give them an assured income and sinecure that will keep them sustained.
00:21:17.100It has nothing to do really with education.
00:21:34.800It's a combination of deliberate mediocrity and deliberate propaganda.
00:21:42.520You know, there's another aspect of universities that the right doesn't really talk enough about,
00:21:47.600which is that they have grown so bloated.
00:21:50.620They are, they are simply machines to try and get as many warm bodies on, you know, first year seats who then are going to mostly drop out because, because these students who've been recruited through this incredibly obsessive effort on the part of university bureaucrats.
00:22:10.520They've got, they've got, they're, they're like these capitalist machines.
00:22:13.200They've got yield specialists and, and retention specialists, uh, all trying to just be like hucksters selling snake oil to get these students in.
00:22:24.740They don't care whether they're capable or not.
00:22:27.000All they want is that first year deposit, uh, to, so they can have a, a bigger budget in order to hire more bureaucrats.
00:22:37.020Um, and the degree of bureaucracy that is all dedicated to the fact that students are not prepared.
00:22:44.560We have far too many people going to college, far too many.
00:22:47.620But the, the, the liberal assumption, and sometimes also, I'm sad to say, the conservative assumption is that unless you have a college degree, your life is basically over.
00:22:59.420You will live a life of, of, you know, thwarted ambition, thwarted capacity.
00:23:06.220You will never be able to develop yourself to your full potential.
00:23:11.200There are so many professions, occupations, skills that have nothing to do with what has become, in most cases, totally bogus degrees.
00:23:23.760I mean, a, a degree in marketing, you should not go to college for a degree in marketing.
00:23:29.160You should go to college if you want to study the classics.
00:23:32.980If you want to read Aeschylus and Euripides and, and Sophocles and the great works of philosophy, of, of Western literature, of art, if you want to study very demanding science, you should not be doing, you know, some pseudo, uh, communications degree.
00:23:53.100But this is simply so that these colleges can continue expanding their student body.
00:23:59.280And the right has to start speaking very clearly, Lou, about the dignity and beauty of, of crafts.
00:24:07.880And part of the reason why we don't talk about, uh, hands-on skills is because males are more inclined to, to figure things out, to want to work with machines, to tinker, to develop.
00:24:21.920And we are living in an anti-male culture right now.
00:24:25.280Now, females are much more obedient, docile, you know, they're taking over the universities, uh, both in student body and faculty and in administration.
00:24:34.340And so we want to perpetuate something that, that females, up to a certain point, do better than males.
00:24:41.100Now, at the absolute top end of math skills, of STEM skills, uh, males still trounce females.
00:24:49.080But, uh, at the average level, females are better at sitting in seats and, you know, writing their, their, their mostly empty verbiage papers.
00:24:59.280Um, but, but colleges are, are absolutely, uh, a betrayal of what they should be at this point.
00:25:06.820And, and, and again, I'm not even getting to the ideology that made the pro-Hamas mass collective outbreak of psychosis, of supporting terrorists, an absolute inevitability, Lou.
00:25:20.780Yeah, I, I think you're exactly right.
00:25:24.220Because you, you, I mean, there are a host of issues contributing factors to all of this.
00:25:29.120But the reality is that you've got so many of these young people on college and university campuses who really don't have a, a, a, a study path, uh, a concentration, a major, uh, there, and there, what's, what better to do than to tear down all of the institutions of society and, uh, cheer on, uh, the Iranian-backed terrorists, uh, whether they're Hamas or Hezbollah, the Houthis, you name it.
00:25:57.680But, uh, we're going to take all of that up with Heather MacDonald.
00:26:31.500I hope you'll be joining us for Lou Dobbs Tonight as our fight to save this country has only begun.
00:26:38.500We're back now with Heather MacDonald.
00:26:46.340And, Heather, we hear lots of people, and I'm, I'm shocked by some of the people who use the word progressive because they're in opposition both politically and ideologically to Democrats.
00:26:55.960But they refuse to use the word Marxist when describing a Barack Obama or the Biden administration or regime's policies or, you know, they're anti-America.
00:27:09.460They're absolutely embedded in Marxism.
00:27:12.960Marxism, and they refuse to call the Democrats Marxist when I think that's precisely what they are, without exception.
00:27:21.640Well, I actually would preserve Marxism for something that is much more focused on destroying free markets and capitalism.
00:27:30.260Now, you can say that, well, the over-regulation that Biden is doing, the insanity of the green energy mission, the insanity of believing that you can make everybody drive electrical vehicles without impoverishing us, all of us, by bringing down the electrical grids, that that is anti-capitalist.
00:27:52.500But it is not, I don't think, that is in service of a absolutely unreachable environmental goal.
00:28:03.860I don't think it's driven by the same hatred and belief in class revolution that drives Marxism.
00:28:10.580I think it's something worse and less interesting because Marxism at least had some interesting things to say about what was going on in the 19th century with the development of this new form of capitalism and workers, proletarian workers in factories that is very different than how human beings had organized their economies in previous centuries.
00:28:37.460And so we can disagree with Marxist conclusions, but some of his observations, I think, were not fanciful.
00:28:48.000What's going on, I think, is even worse, which is a hatred for all of Western civilization.
00:28:54.760It's a civilization deemed too white and too male, and for that reason, it has to come down.
00:29:01.900So this is beyond something much more than economics.
00:29:06.400It's about the very possibility of people striving for excellence without being told that by virtue of being white, male and heterosexual, they are going to be at the absolute bottom of the heap when it comes to getting jobs, when it comes to college admissions, admissions to law school, medical school, advancement in medical school, becoming a doctor.
00:29:32.340If you have a son or a son or a grandson who is white and heterosexual, he's going to have a very difficult time competing on his merits for the rest of his life.
00:29:44.660He's going to be handicapped by hatred.
00:29:49.160And I want to just take a moment to explain why I think that that Marxist template works in this instance.
00:30:00.960And that is because we saw in the 60s and the 70s a shift in this country away from the Marxists who were following the usual prescription, that is, talking about class warfare, talking about the proletariat and the revolution that they expected.
00:30:18.340They were disappointed in every at every turn nearly in the United States, the unique American experience.
00:30:26.640So what they did was, in my judgment, they shifted to education.
00:30:30.820They shifted to professionals, professions.
00:30:37.240And they and they flew under false flags for the longest time.
00:30:41.340They the great society under Johnson, for example, moved government just lavishly across the the the the the entire scope of governance.
00:30:55.800And what we have now is a government that is inculcated into government.
00:31:02.020And in my judgment, a state ownership of property and control.
00:31:08.680It's inculcated throughout our government.
00:31:10.780The Marxists are in charge of the Democrat Party.
00:31:13.780They are in charge of the permanent bureaucracy.
00:31:16.100They are in charge of every agency and every department of the federal government.
00:31:20.660And by the way, they are now coexisting with the corporatist, the corporate globalist.
00:31:27.460And it's to me, straightforwardly, we are moving so far from capitalism that it's getting very, very tricky when we talk about markets,
00:31:37.180because these markets are regulated to a point that's remarkable.
00:31:42.400And by the way, being international markets now, not simply domestic markets, we are connected as we've never been to the other civilizations, if you will, and the other countries around the world.
00:31:57.400We're an international nation now, I think, without doubt.
00:32:04.180I mean, we certainly believe that we have no right to insist on our own inherent culture, that we must be, have our immigration policy determined by people living outside the country based on their whim to get here,
00:32:17.320not based on what people within the country believe in, there's no question.
00:32:22.540I was talking to a guy in Middle Eastern Studies in University of Pennsylvania, and he explicitly said,
00:32:29.700we in universities are supposed to go beyond nationalists, we're supposed to be post-nationalists.
00:32:37.360And therefore, he thought that, why do the Jews get away with believing in Zionism?
00:32:42.960He thought this was unfair on a college campus, and that people that believe in Israel were violating what should be now the dominant academic ideology.
00:32:53.080But I'm just going to push back again, Lou, for the sake of an interesting discussion.
00:32:58.940You know, I don't think there's a theory out there among conservatives that this was all a deliberate plan,
00:33:06.380the long march through the institutions, to quote Marcuse, I just don't believe it.
00:33:12.940I don't think there was anybody like some sort of communist five-year plan that set out to take things over.
00:33:21.840I think there was pressure to expand government welfare.
00:33:26.520There was a race ideology that we had to atone for, our centuries of racial abuse.
00:33:35.200And hatred and cruelty, so we're going to expand the welfare state.
00:33:40.640But we are not, as much as we are in many instances, destroying a lot of freedom of entrepreneurs to make decisions
00:33:50.900and respond to market signals, we are not close to destroying free markets.
00:33:57.420Nobody, the Hollywood moguls and the tech moguls that are the big supporters of the Democratic Party really do not fear that they're going to have to give up their industrial enterprises for a national takeover.
00:34:16.480You know, we're not going to nationalize Google or Amazon.
00:34:21.320You know, some of these people, Jeff Bezos, he is a capitalist par excellence.
00:34:25.820So, again, I don't think it was a plan.
00:34:31.280And the only thing, you know, the other thing that conservatives who say, oh, cultural Marxism, they say, well, Marxism has hierarchies.
00:34:39.260It says there's good people and bad people categorically.
00:34:48.560I think that obscures more than it clarifies because, again, this is driven by an identity ideology, not a hatred for the free market.
00:35:04.900I would love if I thought that all of these idiot young people were really at risk of losing their access to their Starbucks and their smartphones.
00:35:19.060But, you know, the free market is going to continue pumping out these goodies, even as these idiots don't deserve them for an instant.
00:35:27.480Thanks, everybody, for being with us today.
00:35:29.400Our guests here tomorrow on the Great America Sunday Show will be Congressman Andy Biggs and America's Mayor Rudy Giuliani.
00:35:36.640Please join us for that tomorrow and each and every day.
00:35:40.100And please join us for Lou Dobbs Tonight on Rumble, Twitter, Apple TV, Frank Speech, 7 p.m. Eastern, 6 p.m. Central.
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