The Great America Sunday Show： September 15, 2024
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Summary
Gordon Chang is the author of the new book, Plan Red: China's Project to Destroy America. He talks about the dangers China poses to the United States, and how the Biden administration has done little to hold them accountable for their actions.
Transcript
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Hello, everybody, and welcome to the Great America Show.
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Seems that each day that goes by, the U.S. faces a threat from a different angle of the
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The threat of nuclear war from Russia or Iran, the threat of illegal immigrants coming across
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the southern border, or perhaps the threat of the deadly fentanyl that comes across each
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But there's one threat that stayed constant for a very long time, and that is China.
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They are the leading producer of it and send it into this country freely each day, and
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Fentanyl is responsible for taking the lives of hundreds of thousands of Americans each
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They also sent us the China virus, which claimed the lives of over 1 million Americans and
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And since the Biden administration has taken over, there has been little to nothing done
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to hold China accountable for anything they've done to us.
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To take up all the current and future threats we face, I want to bring in our guest today.
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He's the author of the all-new book called Plan Red, China's Project to Destroy America.
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It comes out on October 1st, and it's available for pre-order now.
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I want to start with first, China announcing this week they're going to start joint naval
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This shows once again, John, that China and Russia are coordinating their militaries.
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This particular naval exercise will be near Japan, and that indicates this is a threat
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to not only the Japanese homeland, but to South Korea as well.
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You know, if there's going to be a war, you know, you could be Taiwan, could be the Philippines,
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but clearly I think the Chinese will pressure both South Korea and Japan.
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And by the way, we got wars in Ukraine, the Middle East, and in North Africa with those
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That means this is probably World War III if something happens in East Asia.
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Xi Jinping was over in Africa this week for the 2020 forum on the China-Africa cooperation,
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where he's trying to get started back up the Belt and Road Initiative, offering up loans
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I mean, is this part of his plan to dominate all global aspects of the world?
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I mean, you see him down in Honduras, down in Nicaragua, building, you know, power plants
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and all sorts of things, coming up just short of Mexico, which I'm sure he'll make his way
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And they've been very clear about it, because he's been pushing the notion that China is the
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And since 2017, Chinese officials have been talking about the moon and Mars as sovereign
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Now, this meeting with the African leaders is important for Xi Jinping, because not only
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is this a question of trying to govern the entire planet and to colonize Africa, but it's
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also Xi Jinping desperately needs the African economies.
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He has turned his back on the only sustainable plan for China, which is to increase consumption,
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We're seeing China, we're seeing the United States, EU start to restrict their markets.
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Even some countries in the global south are starting to restrict their markets to Chinese
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So basically, Xi Jinping needs to export a lot to Africa to keep his country going.
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You had mentioned the recession in China, and who really knows how bad it is, because nothing
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we get out of China, it's sort of like the Biden administration, nothing we get out of
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What do you predict they really are as for GDP, as for exports, you know, over the last year
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Yeah, China claimed 4.7 percent growth for the second quarter of this year.
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That is a mythical figure because China was probably hovering around zero.
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And since the end of the second quarter, we've seen marked deterioration in the Chinese economy,
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If it weren't for the worsening food shortages in China, which has raised prices of food,
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the consumer price index would also, I think, be negative.
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Right now, it is positive, as we saw for August.
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But once you strip out food and some other things and get to core inflation, I think that
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And you can't have robust growth if you're in a deflationary cycle downward.
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And as I mentioned, his prescriptions to get this done are just not realistic.
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So I don't see that they'll be able to save their economy.
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In America, we have Joe Biden to thank for what's happened to this economy, whether it's,
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you know, killing every single new lease for oil to drill or exporting everything they
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could possibly export overseas and not hire and buy American.
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Well, Xi Jinping has been general secretary of the Communist Party since November 2012.
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If you step back, clearly, China right now is having its 2008 downturn.
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In 2008, they decided not to have a downturn along with the rest of the world.
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They built too many high speed rail lines, too many bridges.
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And now they're having trouble sort of digesting the debt.
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But Xi Jinping has made it worse because he believes in a state dominated economy.
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So he's not only pushing out the foreign businesses, he's also pushing out domestic Chinese private
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These are the most productive parts of the Chinese economy.
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These are the parts of the economy that led the revival in the reform era, which is basically
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So Xi Jinping deserves a lot of blame for this.
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So I actually read something this morning that he's actually they're asking they're offering
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for companies to come in and start businesses in China, private companies in China.
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I don't think a lot of people realize that anything there's no such thing as private in China.
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Everything's controlled by China up until the very words you say or the baby that comes out
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Who would be dumb enough to go into China and start a new business, seeing after what
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we saw happen during covid, whether it be 90 percent of our medical supplies and medicine
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are deadly medicines that we need in this country from India and China, who would be so
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And I say give them because they're not stealing our intellectual property.
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Who would be dumb enough to go over there and start anything?
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Basically, that's a great question, because as Xi Jinping has been pushing foreign companies
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out and they've been leaving, there are sort of two categories of companies that want in.
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And the other is American pharmaceutical companies are starting to think about putting more production
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And I think eventually the American drug companies are going to decide that this is not a good
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You know, the interesting thing, I love Elon Musk.
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And there, you know, I always used to tell him, like, you know, you know, why don't you
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But he had one problem with him and his dependency on China.
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Without China, Elon Musk can't make a car battery.
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And, you know, they've kind of got him in a position.
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And if these German car makers don't see that, that Elon can't get out of China because he's
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I want to ask you, the Trump tariffs that he put on, does that have anything to do with
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what's going on with their economy right now that the Biden administration has left on?
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President Trump said that he would increase the China tariffs to at least 60 percent and maybe
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First of all, you know, the 2018 tariffs that President Trump put in place, those were for
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Those were remedies for the theft of U.S. intellectual property.
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They were imposed under Section 301 of the Trade Act of 1974.
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Really, though, going forward, any new tariffs are going to be because of China's predatory trade
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What they are doing is they're using massive subsidies to domestic Chinese companies to
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basically produce more than China could ever consume.
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But Xi Jinping is doubling down on that, which means that this is a violation not only of their
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World Trade Organization obligations, but this is also like the biggest beggar thy neighbor
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And basically, Xi Jinping doesn't want any other country to manufacture anything.
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These tariffs need to go up and they need to be substantial.
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We're going to talk about that on the other side of this break.
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You had mentioned the possibility of Trump putting more tariffs on them.
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I think a big problem that sits in Trump's heart, and I say his heart because I think it's near
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and dear to him is COVID and that he never did anything to get back at China for COVID.
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So I think when Trump comes back in, he's going to be looking for retribution, and I think
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00:10:01.780
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And Gordon, right before we went to break there, we were talking about China and war
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In World War I in America, we were going through a recession.
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World War II from 1937 to 1939, we were in a recession.
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Vietnam, we were experiencing extreme inflation.
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China, obviously, is in a very bad place right now, and there's no doubt that war might help
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There's a very short timeline with tsunami season coming and who they will attack.
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Presumably Taiwan could be us, could be somebody else.
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If they are to attack with the notion that President Trump comes back in November, give
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me a timeline, if you will, of when they will and how they'll go about doing so.
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In general, we've got to be prepared for anything at any place at any time.
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But if we're looking at what is most probable, I don't think the Chinese will start hostilities
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But what we have been seeing in the Philippines, in the South China Sea, especially since the
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middle of June, indicates that's the most likely place.
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One of the reasons why China won't attack Taiwan, in my belief, is that it's too hard, too many
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I think they're looking for a quick political win, and they believe that the Philippines is
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You know, Xi Jinping right now, he can't save the Chinese economy unless he does something
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I don't think that he, I think he eventually will see that he's going to be lost.
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And he wants a war, not because the Chinese people want it.
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Chinese people right now do not want war, and they especially don't want a war with Taiwan.
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But I think that Xi Jinping would start a war because he'd want to prevent other senior
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And the Philippines is the most likely place for that because of what we've been seeing
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I mean, China has an issue in the islands down there that we don't have over here, and
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they don't have over in the Middle East, and that's monsoon season.
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So it gives them a very short window on when they could attack.
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First, if you will, give me a timeline of when they could.
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You don't have to be very specific, but will it be in the next two, three months?
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Yeah, I tend not to think in the next two, three months.
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But remember, what they're doing in the Philippines every week can start a war.
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So one of those incidents can spiral out of control.
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But in terms of China actually thinking about provoking a war, if you have to have a time
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And the reason is, I don't think it's so much time to events in the US.
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I think it's time to events inside China, inside the top of the Communist Party, which
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And I think that what will be timed eventually, too, will be the failure of what we were talking
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But I think that they're going to come to a conclusion pretty soon that they cannot save
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And that's when I think that they make the go, no go decision.
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So you're not sold on the on the prospect of Trump having anything to do with it.
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But I think that Xi Jinping is reacting primarily to domestic incentives inside the Communist Party,
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because that's the way that they normally have reacted in the past.
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If you go back through Communist Party history, go back to 1949, it's primarily they're reacting
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We can't say right now that Xi Jinping has made the decision to go to war, but we can
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say one thing 100 percent, and that is he's made the decision to risk war because he has
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And so he is prepared to go to war at this time or at any time.
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You had to mention it's interesting because he's been beating the Taiwan drum beat for
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a very long time, giving us dates 20, 25, 20, 30, and so on.
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When did the pivot come from going into Taiwan to now looking at the Philippines?
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Yeah, I don't know the answer to that question, but I can tell you that, you know, we've seen
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very hostile air and naval maneuvers against Taiwan, but they've never really gone beyond
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And in February of this year, China actually had in its mind a cause for war because that
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was when two Chinese fishermen drowned after being pursued by the Taiwan Coast Guard.
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Now, those Chinese fishermen should not have been in Taiwan's waters.
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But in China's mind, that was a reason to go to war.
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And after that, it, I think, became clear that they were going after the Philippines rather
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And people in Taiwan, they're thinking it might be a blockade, might be a quarantine.
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But that's very different than launching an invasion against the main island of Taiwan.
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So I want to tie something else into this now, and that's North Korea.
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Xi Jinping sending a letter to Pyongyang and Kim Jong-un telling him he wants to strengthen
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ties with him, you know, after not talking with him for eight months.
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Yeah, most people believe that North Korea has moved far away from China and very close
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Kim Jong-un went to a Russian cosmodrome near Vladivostok last September.
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That's when they signed up their mutual defense treaty and their comprehensive strategic partnership
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I have a slightly different take on this, and that is that I believe that China was more
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or less the mastermind between closer Russian-North Korea ties.
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And the reason is both Russia and North Korea absolutely depend on China, and neither are in
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So I think that we're seeing a little bit of kabuki.
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I think that Xi Jinping likes all of this because what's happening is that North Korea is keeping
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Russia in the Ukraine war, and Xi Jinping is not taking the heat for doing that.
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So I think that China gets a lot of benefits from this.
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I'm not prepared to say, oh, you know, the relationship between China and North Korea is
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But nonetheless, I think the relations are really strong.
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And we should assume that we have here North Korea, Iran, Russia, and China are forming a
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durable partnership that is confronting us and waging war on the international system.
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Yeah, I'm not entirely sure that any relationship with China is genuine.
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I think at any point, if something were to happen and there had been a vulnerability, Russia
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What does Russia do if China is to attack, we'll say, Taiwan or the Philippines?
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Yeah, that really is a critical question, because, you know, we started by talking about
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I think that we have to assume that if China starts a war in East Asia, that Russia will come
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I'm not saying that 100%, but I have to say that when we plan for war, that's what we
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have to just assume will happen, because we see that Vladimir Putin and Xi Jinping, they
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have been coordinating all their policies, including their naval and air maneuvers.
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So this is a military relationship as much as anything else.
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And Xi Jinping has been fully behind Russia, keeping it in the war in Ukraine.
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So I think that Vladimir Putin, if Xi Jinping asks him to or demands that he do that, I
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don't think Vladimir Putin's in a position to say no.
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It's very interesting, because, you know, if that were to happen, Vladimir Putin would
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have a war on the left of him and a war on the right of him.
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And when he invaded Ukraine, we all expected it, I think, to just be days, maybe a week,
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But as long as it's gone on, I think we all overestimated, and correct me if I'm wrong,
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You know, we anticipated, I think they had a lot more soldiers than they really had, a
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lot more military arsenal than they really had.
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How does Russia, they can't even win a war against Ukraine.
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I mean, they're winning it, you know, on its face right now, but they can't finish the
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How does Russia now get into a war over in the Philippines or Taiwan?
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Well, they've got a Pacific fleet, and, you know, it's more, I think, that because Xi
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Jinping has been providing substantial assistance to Russia's war effort in Ukraine, Putin just
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You know, Putin might not want to go to war in East Asia, but I don't think he really
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So right now, you know, you're absolutely right.
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I thought that, you know, Russia would take Kiev in a week, you know, two weeks at the
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So, you know, right now, Russia is bogged down.
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You know, it's making some gains in the Donbass, but it's losing in the Kursk area.
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So, yeah, they're having a real hard time staying in this war.
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Yeah, I don't want to equate it to, like, if the U.S. would evade Mexico, but the war
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just doesn't make sense to me, Russia and Ukraine, and how it's gone on for so long.
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I mean, Ukraine's getting a crap ton of money from America and other nations.
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When we return, I want to talk about the declining birth rates in China.
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And now China putting a pause on anyone adopting Chinese children.
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I also want to take up what happens if Kamala Harris wins, what that means for America and
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Gordon, before we went to break, I said that we were talking about the China birth rates
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Apparently, China's turning their kindergartens into nursing homes now as they, you know,
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You know, you have abortion centers on every corner.
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The Democrats wanting to abort every child that's inside the womb of a woman.
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What does this mean for China now that they've stopped now allowing foreigners to adopt Chinese
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What it means for China is that the country is in long-term, almost irreversible decline.
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China now has a population of about 1.4 billion.
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By the turn of the century, China could be 488, 490 million people, maybe a little bit more.
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But we're seeing a collapse in the total fertility rate.
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We're seeing all sorts of signs which indicate that China will lose somewhere on the order
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of two-thirds of its population between now and the time the clock strikes 2100.
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This will be the steepest decline in history in the absence of war or disease.
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And we have little idea how it's going to affect Chinese society.
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Because no country has gone through this unless it's been ravaged by a war or disease.
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So right now, but it means that, you know, China is going to be a small, mid-sized country
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It's not going to be the behemoth that everybody envisions now.
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And that has so many geopolitical and other consequences.
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Yeah, they're calling it a, quote, severely aging society by 2035, even before the turn
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I mean, this is a nation, as we just said before, that, I mean, they do everything to
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tell you, even up and to tell you how to hold your fork and knife.
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How do you get to a situation now where you have a country that depends on its military
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and its citizens to be enrolled in its military and ready to fight at any moment?
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How do you get into a situation like this now where, like you said, at the turn of the
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They're even saying now by 2035 and just 11 years, they're even bigger trouble.
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You know, at one point, China was telling you how many kids you were allowed to have,
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how many boys you're allowed to have, and girls.
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Now we're at a situation where they don't even want to get rid of their own people.
00:24:46.900
Yeah, it got into this in two different ways, John.
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One of them was the one-child policy that was put into effect at the end of the 1970s.
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You know, before that, China had a total fertility rate, which is the average number of children
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They had a total fertility rate in somewhere like 5.9 or something, very high.
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And then essentially what they said was, look, people can only have one child.
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But they ended the one-China policy in the end of 2015.
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And the Chinese people did not respond by an increase in fertility rates.
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And the reason is that there's been pessimism in Chinese society.
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Right now there's a gloom where people are just opting out,
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which is one of the reasons why we have so many Chinese people
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trying to get into other countries, including ours, by the way.
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So really what this shows is, you know, Chinese people just do not want to reproduce.
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This was highlighted last year when a viral video of a Chinese male,
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basically early 30s, looking into the camera and saying,
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I love my son so much, I will not allow him to be born into this society.
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So that's the mentality of the Chinese people right now.
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I mean, you look at everything that goes on in China.
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And I mean, you could say the same thing for America.
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You're putting them into a society where when they're born,
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And, you know, if they're a Muslim, they could end up in a concentration camp.
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You know, I just don't understand, you know, how we got to this point.
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It's America's fault, too, for propping them up for so long.
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I want to turn to Tim Waltz, who spent years promoting a research facility
00:26:52.480
What does it mean for a Waltz-Harris administration and China?
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Because if you're reading the New York Times, they say that Tim Waltz's long-term relationship
00:27:08.200
Well, I believe that Tim Waltz is a true believer.
00:27:12.280
And we've seen this, you know, in the 1990s, the following decade,
00:27:17.500
when he was running high school students to China to be exposed to Communist Party propaganda,
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he could not have conducted those operations without the approval of the
00:27:26.340
Communist Party's United Front Work Department, which is the part of the party that subverts
00:27:32.560
Now, Tim Waltz could make an argument saying, I was just young and naive and stupid.
00:27:37.220
But the problem is, we've seen this with Daily Caller reporting of August 27th,
00:27:42.060
that Tim Waltz, as governor of Minnesota, has maintained continuous contacts with United
00:27:48.800
Front Work Department front organizations in Minnesota.
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So clearly, this is something that he believes in.
00:27:55.780
And also, you know, we've heard Tim Waltz recently say that socialism is just like being a good
00:28:05.260
And if their ticket wins in November, that means we may have a communist sympathizer one
00:28:14.300
What's amusing to me, and it's not really amusing, but it's just the hypocrisy of it all.
00:28:19.840
Tim Waltz last week was at an event for inclusivity, and it was nonetheless an LGBTQXYZ event where,
00:28:29.020
you know, he was promoting Get Out, and that these people should, you know, be able to do this
00:28:34.020
But what you didn't hear about is the Uyghur camps.
00:28:36.780
And while he worked with China for years, I mean, that's something now that's come to light
00:28:45.840
But a lot of people still don't know what Uyghur camps are.
00:28:49.160
Tell the audience, if you will, Gordon, for those who don't know, what China does to these
00:28:52.680
people that they're putting in concentration camps?
00:28:55.780
China, especially since 2017, has been committing crimes against humanity against the Uyghurs,
00:29:06.340
And this has been such a fierce campaign that it actually constitutes genocide, as it's defined
00:29:16.860
We don't know exactly how many, but could be somewhere between two and three million Uyghurs
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and Kazakhs and others in concentration camp facilities.
00:29:25.780
They have made sure that the Uyghurs can't reproduce.
00:29:32.120
As official policy, there's official policy of rape of Uyghur women.
00:29:40.480
We know that because they built a crematorium between two of these detention facilities.
00:29:48.280
So this is an attempt to eliminate Uyghur culture and identity.
00:29:53.720
They're doing the same thing more or less with Tibetans.
00:29:58.020
And they're now starting in earnest against the Mongolians.
00:30:01.540
So this is a program countrywide to eliminate minority consciousness.
00:30:08.040
Yeah, and this is obviously something that's pushed by.
00:30:12.800
And it's only these bad people you see in America who are doing business with China.
00:30:16.280
And I mean, personal business, the Biden crime family, the Clintons, the Tim Walz family.
00:30:22.640
I want to wrap up with Donald Trump and his return to the White House.
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He's valuing up to 100 percent tariff on countries ditching the U.S. dollar.
00:30:31.920
He's saying, quote, you don't leave the dollar.
00:30:34.440
You leave the dollar and you're not doing business with the United States because we're going to put 100 percent tariff on your goods.
00:30:40.480
He's tired of China's currency manipulation, which we've fallen prey to over the last few years.
00:30:45.240
If we do see 100 percent tariff placed on goods from China and countries that are taking advantage of America, what does that mean for America and what does it mean for China?
00:30:55.260
Well, for China, it probably means the end of their economy, because Xi Jinping has put his fate into the hands of those countries that buy Chinese goods.
00:31:08.600
And it means that we have a chance of ending the communist threat without the use of force.
00:31:22.040
But because of five decades of truly misguided and horrible American policy towards China, or at least one can say three decades of very, very bad policy toward China, every option we have is dangerous right now.
00:31:38.240
And so I think President Trump has the right idea.
00:31:42.120
It is the only way that we're going to get out of this without war, in my view.
00:31:46.940
Yeah, I think November 5th is America's, you know, saving grace day or, you know, it's day of detriment.
00:31:54.740
And hopefully Americans go to the polls that day and, you know, they vote their conscience, because I don't think we could live another four years of what we've seen, because it's only going to get worse from here.
00:32:04.800
And who knows how much worse it will really get.
00:32:09.220
It's out October 1st, but it's available for preorder now.
00:32:21.020
Be sure to preorder his book now, Plan Red, China's Project to Destroy America.
00:32:25.460
It's out October 1st, but available for preorder now.
00:32:28.620
Be sure to join us back here tomorrow for The Great America Show as our quest for truth, justice and the American way continues.
00:32:34.600
Be sure to follow me on Twitter at John Fawcett NY and on Truth Social at John Fawcett.
00:32:39.960
Let me know what you want to hear more of on this show.
00:32:42.000
You can also email us at info at Lou Dobbs dot com.